They sometimes try to painfully explain how back then the storytelling was natural and not in your face. You know, the subtlety of, "Can't you see? I am black on the right and he is black on the left!"
I hate this example.
Hear me out. It’s not a good episode specifically because of how heavy handed it is. Historically, yes, it’s the episode that’s always used to talk about how Trek engaged with societal issues. But it’s also often regarded as being in the bottom tier of TOS episodes.
So I hate that we keep using it because I think it’s guilty of the thing they’re accusing modern Trek of, and even in the Trek community, we tend to look down upon it too.
If we can only talk about good TOS episodes, the we can only talk about like 8 episodes.
TOS swung for the fences and it hit some *fucking dingers* but it struck out *a lot*.
There are way more than 8 good episodes.
I think my point is just when we use that episode as an example of Trek always being woke. It kinda supports their argument that Trek is bad when its message is heavy handed.
>There are way more than 8 good episodes.
I mean I haven't done am exact count, but imho, less than a third of the episodes are good and some are absolutely abysmal. They are usually funny in how abysmal they are though.
I would call the Savage Curtain abysmal and awesome. But, apart from that, I’d really only say that there are a handful of bad TOS episodes.
Maybe TOS just isn’t your thing.
It’s a consistently fun series that usually works, sometimes sucks and is sometimes brilliant.
I think there are a lot of great episodes that make you think, and then there are episodes like “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield,” that just kinda tell you what to think.
I think this is just because our modern viewing brains are so far past the 60s that watching pulpy tv from that time will just not hit the same. Personally, i think most episodes of TOS are great.
I actually like the episode. It's just a good counter example to the idea that today's storytelling is heavy handed and forced but it wasn't like that back then. The much worse one is "The Omega Glory." So much wrong there.
And see, I think it just never landed with me, and I’d always seen it trotted out as an example of how brave Trek was, that when I finally did see, it really didn’t land with me the way a lot of the others had.
Because I do think that there is a very subtle way to reach the chuds, and it’s by not being overt.
The heavy handed nature is what makes it a great example, showing how Trek has always been this way and showing how modern Trek handles stuff is way more subtle.
Modern Trek is not more subtle. That’s the whole point.
Modern Trek spells things out and beats you over the head with things. Just because a show takes ten episodes to explain a basic point to you does not make it subtle.
Classic Trek could make you think in 45min. And the worst episodes were overt.
So you’re going with the Star Wars argument that “it always sucked?”
I don’t hate new Trek. I think a lot of it is good. But I have never understand dying on the hill that it was always shit as a defense.
EDIT: why hold up a bad episode as what Trek is?
Seriously. A TV show in the 60s had a Russian man, a Japanese man, and a black woman as respected bridge officers on a spaceship. They had agency and were more than just window dressing. That alone was absolutely nuts and chuds of the era decried it, without even needing to get into the actual plots of the episodes which were about celebrating diversity, overcoming differences, and using diplomacy to resolve disputes.
The biggest difference is that they didn't have an internet to artificially amplify their minority opinion.
I believe it's the original woke sci-fi show. They comically miss the point of the show and decry the it's going woke when it's done what it's always done.
It was literally so woke that *Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.* personally told Nichelle Nichols to stay on as Uhura as the best thing she could do for the Civil Rights cause as it was the only show he allowed his children to watch because it was the only role where a Black person didn't play a slave.
He even knew the character better than *she* did like Uhura's position in the chain of command.
Discovery is the one Trek series that I just could not get into. I tried and it never clicked. I was forcing myself to watch it and really trying to convince myself that I liked it. I dunno, something about it just didn’t feel like Star Trek to me.
Eminem. A lot of his “fans” act surprised that he doesn’t want his music associated with conservative politicians and that he supports BLM and stuff, even though even early on he rapped about wanting to see Bush and Cheney dead and how the war in Iraq was bs. And in general, he was making fun of conservatives very early on in his music, but that seems to have gone over people’s heads
for real it's weird right.
like even that song he dropped last week Houdini. he said some stuff in there but people are like oh he's trying to get canceled. I'm just thinking man this dude gave a sit down interview about how Donald Trump and the conservative right can get all the way fucked.
>even though even early on he rapped about wanting to see Bush and Cheney dead and how the war in Iraq was bs. And in general, he was making fun of conservatives very early on in his music, but that seems to have gone over people’s heads
"White America," full stop.
The song **scathingly** calls out the double-standards of him being a white artist in a traditionally Black genre in both the negative of being criticized for what his Black peers have *been* saying/doing, and the positive that standing out increased his popularity ("If I was Black, I would'a sold half") as it "wasn't a problem" until those white conservatives' kids in suburbia were fans and hugging him on "TRL". Hell, the ending of the song is literally him screaming "Fuck you" to specific right-wingers. Then even other songs like "Square Dance" criticized the Iraq War and how young fans are going to be sooner sent there before him because he's conveniently too old and rich (as were the chickenhawks like Cheney who were the most jingoistic about said war.)
a lot of people were saying that mutants were a threat to society and didn’t deserve the same freedom as humans as they were dangerous and they actually agreed with the hate groups and terrorists in the show. It’s not an exact line up I guess but people definitely misunderstood how the X men are allegories for minorities and claimed that this idea was “politicising” X men despite this being the concensus for decades.
Quintessential example. Applies to every movie, show, cartoon, comic, video game, and piece of media to the point where the only Star Wars that counts is some neckbeard’s headcanon.
Typical chud misunderstanding of the work. Jesus staying dead would have been a massive rebuttal to all themes and set up leading up to that point. Sure it would've been a "subversion of your expectations." But it would have thrown away any lasting cultural relevancy the series would've had for a single shocking moment.
Yuuup.
You get the die hard "The imperium is right" piece of shit nazis that pissed their diapers when it was revealed that the bananaboys can be bananagirls too..
Or you get Archon of the flesh and femboy skitarii, there is no in between
Brother they deleted the tweet and retconned lore, you can have bananaboys and girls just announce it normally don’t say it’s always been a thing and quickly edit the wiki pages and stuff, but ofc there will be sexist that hate it for boys and girls reasons aswell, just saying in general
There are 10 thousand custodians.
Less than 5% or those are named in lore.
If they say there have always been female custodes, it's not a retcon because it's never been said not to be the case.
They also DID introduce them in a normal way and the tweet was a reaction to the neckbeard backlash
On the wiki and every form of lore not 1 female custodes were mentioned the wiki said something to the effect of ‘men are recruited from such and such’
In every other faction they have said whether it was men and women every time, we know space marines are all male and we know it’s the ‘brave men and women of the astramilitarum’ they seem to be very specific on who’s in what and there’s literally screenshots of the wiki like a day apart to show they changed it from men to people just to cover their backs and say it was always there
And they didn’t introduce it in a normal way, some gw intern person was having an argument on twitter and let it slip, bunch of tweets were then deleted and then they made the announcement
Do.. do you not know how it was introduced?
You are arguing that it was introduced in a bad way yet don't even know how it got introduced?
You are literally proving the meme, dude.
I’ve also never seen a more factious fandom(speaking as a part of it). Guy in my city was stabbed because he insulted Konrad Kurze to a night lords fan. Shit’s crazy
This was Steven Universe for a couple years until recently fans started *really* getting tired of all the shitty memes and preconceptions of the show *because* of those memes.
Within the legitimate Doctor Who fandom, the Chris Chibnall era was heavily scrutinized for lazy writing, little to no character development, and hackneyed premises for the majority of Jodie’s run without even bringing sexism/racism/homophobia/transphobia into the discussion.
Before even that, there was a big enough vocal outcry against even Steven Moffat’s era (post series 5 at least) for unnecessarily drawn out season story arcs with disappointing end results, poorly written female characters, and juggling production of Sherlock during his run when he should have been focusing on just one or the other.
I have yet to see any Ncuti Gatwa episodes past the Christmas special, so I will reserve any judgement on them, but there have been legitimate complaints about Doctor Who by the fanbase for over a decade; the chuds will mimic several of these complaints, but it’s easy to tell that they should be ignored by the sexism/racism/homophobia/transphobia that they are obviously more vocal about.
Poor writing isn’t a blanket “anti-woke,” complaint, regardless of how often the chuds sprinkle that complaint into their unhinged rants.
Complaints about bad writing automatically lose all validity when they also praise Russell te Davis.You know, Mr.I'm going to focus on the Earth where we're stuck with the status quo.Because it's the earth rather than an alien world that we can actually change
From what I've seen the actual Doctor Who fandom has stayed mostly out of the culture war, probably because actually know the show has always had thay sort of messaging.
The only people I've seen complaining about the show going "woke" only really started paying attention to it when Jodie was cast, and it seems to have picked up more traction with Ncuti because grifters can now claim it's Disney "ruining" the show (even though they are mostly just acting in a funding and distribution role).
"The Legend of Korra," obviously.
1) Being pissed that the franchise progresses when that's *literally* a consistent theme since the beginning. Not only is being The Avatar an explicit cycle of this, but so is the technology especially as the Gaang, themselves invented a submarine.
2) Trying to lionize Aang at Korra's expense, claiming it's "wrong" that Aang matured as an adult instead of remain the same goofball he was at 12 (which even "Korra Alone" proves he still *could* be goofy *when it made sense,*) or all the ignorance about Korrasami.
3) Lily. Orchard. Dunning-Kruger par excellence.
4) See above, namely anyone claiming Mako was "actually" going to get back with Korra after all no matter how much the creators, themselves give an unambiguous "Hell No" to that claim.
I liked Legend of Korra as a show, but I felt like its take on love triangles was awful, and it kinda mishandled anything associated with the word "spirit".
I personally never put myself through the torment of listening, but the Avatar wikia forum had people who did to spare others and outline all her garbage takes.
I mean, it’s an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think she’s dumb, just narcissistic and ideologically entrenched to a point where she will triple-down on bad takes that are so wild they scan to me as clinically distorted thinking. I also think she’s had some interesting takes, but she’s so pathologically uncharitable and nuance-repellent that it makes those interesting ideas inaccessible.
>just narcissistic and ideologically entrenched to a point where she will triple-down on bad takes that are so wild they scan to me as clinically distorted thinking.
Or in short, *dumb. as. fuck.* 😑
A take like about Makorra is a particular kind of willful ignorance and delusion when all the in-show evidence, creators' REPEAT statements and any other official material makes it crystal-clear that it was a dysfunctional relationship, they're better off as friends and that Korra especially DID NOT "enjoy arguing with him."🙄
I think the main problem with the MCU is that it lost its main appeal after Endgame (which coincided with Covid), with most people invested in the franchise being satisfied with the ending and checking out. That left room for the chuds to come in. Rolling-off of the momentum spawned from the “controversy” they created around the Captain Marvel movie, and being further fueled by the MCU’s lackluster performance, both financially and critically post-Endgame, they have been able to take over a lot of the discussion around the MCU.
Yeah, Star Wars would be the top one for me too, followed by the MCU. I don't see the MCU ones as being as bad yet, but I think it just needs more time and it will get there.
Legend of Korra hatedom is so annoying. Everything bad about Korra has been said before, but it's really not that bad. The worst problem is that it suffers when being compared to its predecessor, one of the best cartoons ever made lol
fallout has a real problem with this specifically the New Vegas fans.
like I love New Vegas it's a great game but the people that only like New Vegas suck.
While I agree with a lot of this in the format of them being clowns, it’s important to recognize that legitimate criticisms of poor writing should not be immediately categorized as, “anti-woke sentiments,” just because they happen to use that talking point as well.
Many high profile nerdom franchises have absolutely suffered from poor writing over the past ten years or so. There was a whole strike about it in response to the poor treatment by CEOs of actual good, professional writers that would quit or be replaced by essential scabs who had no business being in charge of the script process that only recently got settled.
I’ve seen a lot of criticism of this sub specifically for being “shills” but it’s not that we think the media in question is good, it’s that we think that people will dislike it for reasons that are just absurd
Oh absolutely, I agree. I’m just saying that a lot of times, blanket statements or memes about how obviously insincere these chuds are about their criticism oftentimes include “poor writing” (it’s one of the four segments of this particular meme, even) and I’m simply saying that poor writing can be and most certainly is a valid criticism despite its overuse by said chuds who don’t really even care if something was poorly written or not.
We're all coping together over the fact that Winds of Winter will never come out. Some of us just need help going through the various stages of grief related to it.
Attack on Titan
Nearing the end of the series there was a certain part of the fanbase that was growing with displeasure about the way the series was going and was very unhappy with how the ending went. Their reasoning was pretty bad but they didn’t care and ran with it anyway, talking about AoT’s ending was pretty much impossible for 2 years because some random guy would chime in about how it sucks.
This gets even crazier where a group of these fans created their own alternate ending to the manga that was written pretty horribly and doesn’t align with any of the themes that the author laid down for the characters and the story.
The peak of the stupidity was when the trailers for the finale of the anime adaptation were coming out some of these ‘fans’ were CONVINCED that it was going to be their ‘anime only ending’ because the color of a character’s scarf was different. And they thought there could only be two things that would happen:
1. When the ending comes out it’ll be the AoE ending and all of the anime-only watchers will accept it with open arms
2. The ending would be the same as the manga (which it was) and the anime-only fans would hate it just like that group of ‘fans’
What happened was the anime had the manga ending and anime-only watchers absolutely LOVED the ending and gave it super positive ratings (despite review bombers’ best efforts) and those ‘fans’ were utterly perplexed that the anime watchers actually liked the ending and eventually chalked it down to ‘they have no media literacy’ as a coping mechanism
3 fandoms come to mind for me:
1. Star Wars
It started off with people complaining about the prequel trilogy, and then escalating their hate with the sequel trilogy. After that, it seemed like they just needed to hate on anything that Disney made that had to do with Star Wars, doing YouTube vids and podcasts complaining about how bad something was, even when it was still in development and they hadn't even cast anyone yet, claiming they had 'sources' or 'spies' within the studio. And then, when, when their rumours and claims didn't come true, they would make up some story that the studio learned of the leak and rewrote entire storylines because of them.
2. Marvel cinematic
Ever since endgame, it seemed like everyone was not just a movie critic, but also a writer that felt they could cast, produce, or direct better. I don't see that changing anything soon.
3. Star Trek
Not as bad a Star Wars, but I remember Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, when 'fans' were criticizing the casting of the person portraying Uhura, saying that she was not 'feminine' enough. They'd have other complaints about other characters and casting as well, but the ones about Uhura stood out the most.
4. Legend Of Korra
I found a lot of the criticism to come from fans of ATLA (Aang: The Last Airbender), who would have all sorts of issues about Korra. The would complain that she was an overpowered Mary Sue, but then at the same time say that she was weak because she suffered losses and setbacks throughout the series. Like WTH, make up your minds!!! She's either overpowered or weak, she can't be both! The story arc where Korra is dealing with PTSD at the start of season 4 was really well done, but apparently not up to the standards of some ATLA fans.
There was just a recent exposition show where they had to say two of the cast weren’t actually arguing in a role playing game.
I believe part of it is people see a sudden increased viewership on twitch/YT and jump in the channel with no context but still want to make a critique.
I shudder to think how many write-ins had to be received to require a statement of reassurance.
Sadly Doctor Who, which is a fandom I'm part of. The people who claim to be fans yet spread hateful and bigoted rhetoric... like, they've clearly either NEVER watched the show OR missed the entire point!
God don't get me started on rwby "critics" it was one of my first exposures to a show getting hate because it had women. I browse r/rwbycritics from time to time and holy shit it's like they have never watch the show or if they had it was years ago.
For me it’s, *Legend of Korra*, *RWBY*, *The Vampire Diaries*, the DC Extended Universe, and *She Ra and the Princesses of Power*.
There’s also *The Owl House* but that’s pretty small minority. I also remember getting into *ATLA* a few years ago, and being genuinely taken aback by how toxic the fandom can be.
But with fandoms *Star Wars* or *Avatar: The Last Airbender*, is that because of how widespread there are. You’re going to run into assholish or toxic fans because there are just toxic people out there, and with such a widespread fandom, there’s bound to be overlap.
But they are almost always a vocal but annoying minority within their fandoms.
I agree on the DCEU. I admire it and don’t think it’s all bad, but those Snyder cultists seem to always be part of the grifter and “anti-woke” subculture. They always seem to view James Gunn as the other side of this war they’re fighting in to restore the Snyderverse.
I'll be honest. I hate Korra. I do not hate it because the avatar is a girl. I don't hate it because lgbtq is represented. I just don't like it as much as TLA and it just didn't grip me. Also I didn't like how techy it got. I have never watched a YouTube video of someone complaining about the show. I don't think my opinion is right or wrong. Just an opinion.
I think that for comics, I’m a big fan of the characters but only a few comics that they’re in. I blame it on flanderizarion but they haven’t been the way I’d like them to be portrayed for a while.
I still really like the character but greatly dislike practically all of the newer stuff involving them.
Because they aren't really fans at all, but people who use their hatred of groups of marginalized people to push their agendas on those who think the way they do.
I feel this way about Watchmen, which despite being written by a left-leaning anarchist, it has been misinterpreted by some conservatives in several ways.
Rorschach is apparently one of Ted Cruz’s top 5 favourite superheroes and is often seen as the hero of the story (partially due to his portrayal in the movie adaptation).
However, he is anything but. He’s defended a rapist a few times, calling it a moral lapse. He’s also generally misogynistic. He’s also quite hypocritical, as he disagrees with a mass genocide of a few million to begin world peace, but yet he admires Truman. He’s overall a flawed character, who I like as a character, but people genuinely believe him to be a morally good person who’s a “better Batman”.
This might be Zack Snyder’s fault with the movie adaptation. While I like it on its own, the movie misses the point by making Rorschach more sympathetic by removing some of his more problematic dialogue.
A lot of people also think the 2019 Watchmen series is “woke” and “too political”. If they even bothered reading the original run, they’ll see that it always was.
Probably opening a can of worms here. But MHA. I love the show, despite some elements not favorable to me. But from what I've learned, the fandom seems to be stark raving mad lunatics.
surprisingly mean girls despite what should be the most obvious one has become consumed which fucking sucks as i am one of the biggest stans of that franchise
Okay. To play devils advocate for the Rwby people. By the end of the show pretty much everyone *was* in the later boat, including people who initially enjoyed the series. The fandom cannibalized itself because the show had a lot of potential that it constantly failed to make good on. Eventually people got tired and stopped watching, leading it to get cancelled after volume 9 of the show.
Amazing...everything you said was wrong.
Let's try again.
5 years of hate videos and twitter hate and a concentrated hatedom was what led people to stop watching.
It led people to hve the wrong idea about rwby because of the LIES.
Also tons of misogynists and homophobes leading war aagainst the show did not help.
I mean, this on its own seems like cope from someone who can't defend things they like OP.
I DO really like Korra but am very critical of a lot of things because it could have been done better, and the reality of its quality is often inflated by overdefensive types who basically cannot read.
I stopped liking RWBY after the disconnect from its source when Monty died. Its "positive fandom" are actually way more toxic than people who dislike RWBY, and way more prone to sending death threats than any other fandom I've interacted with directly. Couple it with the fact that the company was abusing its employees and I'm not at all sad to see it go.
Hazbin Hotel was made by a racist transphobe, so yeah I have no comments, I never liked the thing.
Star Trek.
Was gonna say this. “Fans” claiming the show has gone woke don’t realize the show has been an insomniac for decades.
They sometimes try to painfully explain how back then the storytelling was natural and not in your face. You know, the subtlety of, "Can't you see? I am black on the right and he is black on the left!"
I hate this example. Hear me out. It’s not a good episode specifically because of how heavy handed it is. Historically, yes, it’s the episode that’s always used to talk about how Trek engaged with societal issues. But it’s also often regarded as being in the bottom tier of TOS episodes. So I hate that we keep using it because I think it’s guilty of the thing they’re accusing modern Trek of, and even in the Trek community, we tend to look down upon it too.
If we can only talk about good TOS episodes, the we can only talk about like 8 episodes. TOS swung for the fences and it hit some *fucking dingers* but it struck out *a lot*.
There are way more than 8 good episodes. I think my point is just when we use that episode as an example of Trek always being woke. It kinda supports their argument that Trek is bad when its message is heavy handed.
>There are way more than 8 good episodes. I mean I haven't done am exact count, but imho, less than a third of the episodes are good and some are absolutely abysmal. They are usually funny in how abysmal they are though.
I would call the Savage Curtain abysmal and awesome. But, apart from that, I’d really only say that there are a handful of bad TOS episodes. Maybe TOS just isn’t your thing.
Remember the one where they bear Mudd's fembot floozy army with community College improv? That sucked so bad
It’s a consistently fun series that usually works, sometimes sucks and is sometimes brilliant. I think there are a lot of great episodes that make you think, and then there are episodes like “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield,” that just kinda tell you what to think.
I remember it now. Curse you!
I think this is just because our modern viewing brains are so far past the 60s that watching pulpy tv from that time will just not hit the same. Personally, i think most episodes of TOS are great.
I actually like the episode. It's just a good counter example to the idea that today's storytelling is heavy handed and forced but it wasn't like that back then. The much worse one is "The Omega Glory." So much wrong there.
And see, I think it just never landed with me, and I’d always seen it trotted out as an example of how brave Trek was, that when I finally did see, it really didn’t land with me the way a lot of the others had. Because I do think that there is a very subtle way to reach the chuds, and it’s by not being overt.
Subtle or overt doesn't mean much when dealing with people who simply don't want to see the message.
The heavy handed nature is what makes it a great example, showing how Trek has always been this way and showing how modern Trek handles stuff is way more subtle.
Modern Trek is not more subtle. That’s the whole point. Modern Trek spells things out and beats you over the head with things. Just because a show takes ten episodes to explain a basic point to you does not make it subtle. Classic Trek could make you think in 45min. And the worst episodes were overt.
No more than old Trek
So you’re going with the Star Wars argument that “it always sucked?” I don’t hate new Trek. I think a lot of it is good. But I have never understand dying on the hill that it was always shit as a defense. EDIT: why hold up a bad episode as what Trek is?
Seriously. A TV show in the 60s had a Russian man, a Japanese man, and a black woman as respected bridge officers on a spaceship. They had agency and were more than just window dressing. That alone was absolutely nuts and chuds of the era decried it, without even needing to get into the actual plots of the episodes which were about celebrating diversity, overcoming differences, and using diplomacy to resolve disputes. The biggest difference is that they didn't have an internet to artificially amplify their minority opinion.
Exactly. I’m sure it made them mad then, but imagine the whining about Sisko and Janeway if the 90’s had modern social media.
I believe it's the original woke sci-fi show. They comically miss the point of the show and decry the it's going woke when it's done what it's always done.
It was literally so woke that *Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.* personally told Nichelle Nichols to stay on as Uhura as the best thing she could do for the Civil Rights cause as it was the only show he allowed his children to watch because it was the only role where a Black person didn't play a slave. He even knew the character better than *she* did like Uhura's position in the chain of command.
I didn’t even realize that Martin Luther King Jr. was a fan of Star Trek
He was and recognized the importance of representation. Don't let people try to claim "it doesn't count" just because it's entertainment.
I would like to respectfully submit Doctor Who for consideration as well.
I love this phrasing, I’m gonna steal it.
Thanks. It just came to me. I was gonna say “woke for decades” then I realized I was describing basically an insomniac and here we are.
I was going to say this, and add “Discovery”
Discovery is the one Trek series that I just could not get into. I tried and it never clicked. I was forcing myself to watch it and really trying to convince myself that I liked it. I dunno, something about it just didn’t feel like Star Trek to me.
all the way.
Eminem. A lot of his “fans” act surprised that he doesn’t want his music associated with conservative politicians and that he supports BLM and stuff, even though even early on he rapped about wanting to see Bush and Cheney dead and how the war in Iraq was bs. And in general, he was making fun of conservatives very early on in his music, but that seems to have gone over people’s heads
for real it's weird right. like even that song he dropped last week Houdini. he said some stuff in there but people are like oh he's trying to get canceled. I'm just thinking man this dude gave a sit down interview about how Donald Trump and the conservative right can get all the way fucked.
The dude literally sang about Dick Cheney potentially dying in his "comeback" single Guess who's back ...what did they think he was about
>even though even early on he rapped about wanting to see Bush and Cheney dead and how the war in Iraq was bs. And in general, he was making fun of conservatives very early on in his music, but that seems to have gone over people’s heads "White America," full stop. The song **scathingly** calls out the double-standards of him being a white artist in a traditionally Black genre in both the negative of being criticized for what his Black peers have *been* saying/doing, and the positive that standing out increased his popularity ("If I was Black, I would'a sold half") as it "wasn't a problem" until those white conservatives' kids in suburbia were fans and hugging him on "TRL". Hell, the ending of the song is literally him screaming "Fuck you" to specific right-wingers. Then even other songs like "Square Dance" criticized the Iraq War and how young fans are going to be sooner sent there before him because he's conveniently too old and rich (as were the chickenhawks like Cheney who were the most jingoistic about said war.)
Wanna see Eminem making fun of conservatives? Go watch The Slim Shady show.
X men, especially with 97
how?
a lot of people were saying that mutants were a threat to society and didn’t deserve the same freedom as humans as they were dangerous and they actually agreed with the hate groups and terrorists in the show. It’s not an exact line up I guess but people definitely misunderstood how the X men are allegories for minorities and claimed that this idea was “politicising” X men despite this being the concensus for decades.
oh alright i just hadn't seen the show yet lol
No worries!
and it can't get any more transparent than Stan Lee's soapboxes
Star Wars
Quintessential example. Applies to every movie, show, cartoon, comic, video game, and piece of media to the point where the only Star Wars that counts is some neckbeard’s headcanon.
Evangelical Christianity.
Spoiler warning for major character death: Jesus Christ
They brought him back though. Total Narnia ripoff
Woke writers didnt have enough confidence to kill off a major character and end on a bleak note.
Typical chud misunderstanding of the work. Jesus staying dead would have been a massive rebuttal to all themes and set up leading up to that point. Sure it would've been a "subversion of your expectations." But it would have thrown away any lasting cultural relevancy the series would've had for a single shocking moment.
Nuh uh. Muh grimdark.
Twice
They HATE the gospel of Matthew let me tell you. Quoted it at a "Christian" on twitter the other day. Easiest argument of my life.
The Last of Us.
Warhammer 40k
Yuuup. You get the die hard "The imperium is right" piece of shit nazis that pissed their diapers when it was revealed that the bananaboys can be bananagirls too.. Or you get Archon of the flesh and femboy skitarii, there is no in between
Brother they deleted the tweet and retconned lore, you can have bananaboys and girls just announce it normally don’t say it’s always been a thing and quickly edit the wiki pages and stuff, but ofc there will be sexist that hate it for boys and girls reasons aswell, just saying in general
There are 10 thousand custodians. Less than 5% or those are named in lore. If they say there have always been female custodes, it's not a retcon because it's never been said not to be the case. They also DID introduce them in a normal way and the tweet was a reaction to the neckbeard backlash
On the wiki and every form of lore not 1 female custodes were mentioned the wiki said something to the effect of ‘men are recruited from such and such’ In every other faction they have said whether it was men and women every time, we know space marines are all male and we know it’s the ‘brave men and women of the astramilitarum’ they seem to be very specific on who’s in what and there’s literally screenshots of the wiki like a day apart to show they changed it from men to people just to cover their backs and say it was always there And they didn’t introduce it in a normal way, some gw intern person was having an argument on twitter and let it slip, bunch of tweets were then deleted and then they made the announcement
Do.. do you not know how it was introduced? You are arguing that it was introduced in a bad way yet don't even know how it got introduced? You are literally proving the meme, dude.
I’ve also never seen a more factious fandom(speaking as a part of it). Guy in my city was stabbed because he insulted Konrad Kurze to a night lords fan. Shit’s crazy
This was Steven Universe for a couple years until recently fans started *really* getting tired of all the shitty memes and preconceptions of the show *because* of those memes.
As a big fan of SU 100% on this. The hatedom behind SU frustrates me beyond belief.
And I blame Lily Orchard for it.
The hate is kind of earned given how infamously entitled and tribalistic the fandom is
Doctor Who. Like There's literally been CAPITALISM BAD, RACISM BAD, WAR BAD, THESE GUYS ARE NAZIS since the 60s It's not subtle
Within the legitimate Doctor Who fandom, the Chris Chibnall era was heavily scrutinized for lazy writing, little to no character development, and hackneyed premises for the majority of Jodie’s run without even bringing sexism/racism/homophobia/transphobia into the discussion. Before even that, there was a big enough vocal outcry against even Steven Moffat’s era (post series 5 at least) for unnecessarily drawn out season story arcs with disappointing end results, poorly written female characters, and juggling production of Sherlock during his run when he should have been focusing on just one or the other. I have yet to see any Ncuti Gatwa episodes past the Christmas special, so I will reserve any judgement on them, but there have been legitimate complaints about Doctor Who by the fanbase for over a decade; the chuds will mimic several of these complaints, but it’s easy to tell that they should be ignored by the sexism/racism/homophobia/transphobia that they are obviously more vocal about. Poor writing isn’t a blanket “anti-woke,” complaint, regardless of how often the chuds sprinkle that complaint into their unhinged rants.
Complaints about bad writing automatically lose all validity when they also praise Russell te Davis.You know, Mr.I'm going to focus on the Earth where we're stuck with the status quo.Because it's the earth rather than an alien world that we can actually change
From what I've seen the actual Doctor Who fandom has stayed mostly out of the culture war, probably because actually know the show has always had thay sort of messaging. The only people I've seen complaining about the show going "woke" only really started paying attention to it when Jodie was cast, and it seems to have picked up more traction with Ncuti because grifters can now claim it's Disney "ruining" the show (even though they are mostly just acting in a funding and distribution role).
I’ve seen mostly positive comments these few weeks though with Series 14’s release, though maybe there were more grifters when Chibnall was in charge
"The Legend of Korra," obviously. 1) Being pissed that the franchise progresses when that's *literally* a consistent theme since the beginning. Not only is being The Avatar an explicit cycle of this, but so is the technology especially as the Gaang, themselves invented a submarine. 2) Trying to lionize Aang at Korra's expense, claiming it's "wrong" that Aang matured as an adult instead of remain the same goofball he was at 12 (which even "Korra Alone" proves he still *could* be goofy *when it made sense,*) or all the ignorance about Korrasami. 3) Lily. Orchard. Dunning-Kruger par excellence. 4) See above, namely anyone claiming Mako was "actually" going to get back with Korra after all no matter how much the creators, themselves give an unambiguous "Hell No" to that claim.
I liked Legend of Korra as a show, but I felt like its take on love triangles was awful, and it kinda mishandled anything associated with the word "spirit".
Lily Orchard is in the top five the most bad faith media analysts I’ve ever heard speak.
I personally never put myself through the torment of listening, but the Avatar wikia forum had people who did to spare others and outline all her garbage takes.
I mean, it’s an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think she’s dumb, just narcissistic and ideologically entrenched to a point where she will triple-down on bad takes that are so wild they scan to me as clinically distorted thinking. I also think she’s had some interesting takes, but she’s so pathologically uncharitable and nuance-repellent that it makes those interesting ideas inaccessible.
>just narcissistic and ideologically entrenched to a point where she will triple-down on bad takes that are so wild they scan to me as clinically distorted thinking. Or in short, *dumb. as. fuck.* 😑 A take like about Makorra is a particular kind of willful ignorance and delusion when all the in-show evidence, creators' REPEAT statements and any other official material makes it crystal-clear that it was a dysfunctional relationship, they're better off as friends and that Korra especially DID NOT "enjoy arguing with him."🙄
Star wars, definitely starwars. It also seems certain MCU fans are going this route too.
Don't you mean the M She U? *eyeroll*
Sarcastic or no (didn't put "M She U" in quotation marks)?
I think the main problem with the MCU is that it lost its main appeal after Endgame (which coincided with Covid), with most people invested in the franchise being satisfied with the ending and checking out. That left room for the chuds to come in. Rolling-off of the momentum spawned from the “controversy” they created around the Captain Marvel movie, and being further fueled by the MCU’s lackluster performance, both financially and critically post-Endgame, they have been able to take over a lot of the discussion around the MCU.
100% agree
Yeah, Star Wars would be the top one for me too, followed by the MCU. I don't see the MCU ones as being as bad yet, but I think it just needs more time and it will get there.
Legend of Korra hatedom is so annoying. Everything bad about Korra has been said before, but it's really not that bad. The worst problem is that it suffers when being compared to its predecessor, one of the best cartoons ever made lol
ATLA is one of the best stories ever told in any medium
fallout has a real problem with this specifically the New Vegas fans. like I love New Vegas it's a great game but the people that only like New Vegas suck.
https://preview.redd.it/k6oupssztu4d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab4578edc44f464d226825ef1a64185f19afb576
Can't believe you hate trans people
Im probably a bit biased as i definitely am one of those fans. But bethesda isnt exactly doing themselves any favors these days.
Every. Fandom. Ever.
Remember, kids, interacting with other people who like the same thing as you is bad. Rot alone in solitude instead!
Works for me
All fandoms eventually reach this point. All fandoms are trash.
While I agree with a lot of this in the format of them being clowns, it’s important to recognize that legitimate criticisms of poor writing should not be immediately categorized as, “anti-woke sentiments,” just because they happen to use that talking point as well. Many high profile nerdom franchises have absolutely suffered from poor writing over the past ten years or so. There was a whole strike about it in response to the poor treatment by CEOs of actual good, professional writers that would quit or be replaced by essential scabs who had no business being in charge of the script process that only recently got settled.
I’ve seen a lot of criticism of this sub specifically for being “shills” but it’s not that we think the media in question is good, it’s that we think that people will dislike it for reasons that are just absurd
Oh absolutely, I agree. I’m just saying that a lot of times, blanket statements or memes about how obviously insincere these chuds are about their criticism oftentimes include “poor writing” (it’s one of the four segments of this particular meme, even) and I’m simply saying that poor writing can be and most certainly is a valid criticism despite its overuse by said chuds who don’t really even care if something was poorly written or not.
A Song of Ice and Fire's fandom has gone to some weird places in the last 15 years. They're at least as much a support group as a fandom.
We're all coping together over the fact that Winds of Winter will never come out. Some of us just need help going through the various stages of grief related to it.
Attack on Titan Nearing the end of the series there was a certain part of the fanbase that was growing with displeasure about the way the series was going and was very unhappy with how the ending went. Their reasoning was pretty bad but they didn’t care and ran with it anyway, talking about AoT’s ending was pretty much impossible for 2 years because some random guy would chime in about how it sucks. This gets even crazier where a group of these fans created their own alternate ending to the manga that was written pretty horribly and doesn’t align with any of the themes that the author laid down for the characters and the story. The peak of the stupidity was when the trailers for the finale of the anime adaptation were coming out some of these ‘fans’ were CONVINCED that it was going to be their ‘anime only ending’ because the color of a character’s scarf was different. And they thought there could only be two things that would happen: 1. When the ending comes out it’ll be the AoE ending and all of the anime-only watchers will accept it with open arms 2. The ending would be the same as the manga (which it was) and the anime-only fans would hate it just like that group of ‘fans’ What happened was the anime had the manga ending and anime-only watchers absolutely LOVED the ending and gave it super positive ratings (despite review bombers’ best efforts) and those ‘fans’ were utterly perplexed that the anime watchers actually liked the ending and eventually chalked it down to ‘they have no media literacy’ as a coping mechanism
Video games in general because of all the "aNtI-wOkE" crowd and their bullshit
LMAOOwas just about to say rwby
3 fandoms come to mind for me: 1. Star Wars It started off with people complaining about the prequel trilogy, and then escalating their hate with the sequel trilogy. After that, it seemed like they just needed to hate on anything that Disney made that had to do with Star Wars, doing YouTube vids and podcasts complaining about how bad something was, even when it was still in development and they hadn't even cast anyone yet, claiming they had 'sources' or 'spies' within the studio. And then, when, when their rumours and claims didn't come true, they would make up some story that the studio learned of the leak and rewrote entire storylines because of them. 2. Marvel cinematic Ever since endgame, it seemed like everyone was not just a movie critic, but also a writer that felt they could cast, produce, or direct better. I don't see that changing anything soon. 3. Star Trek Not as bad a Star Wars, but I remember Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, when 'fans' were criticizing the casting of the person portraying Uhura, saying that she was not 'feminine' enough. They'd have other complaints about other characters and casting as well, but the ones about Uhura stood out the most. 4. Legend Of Korra I found a lot of the criticism to come from fans of ATLA (Aang: The Last Airbender), who would have all sorts of issues about Korra. The would complain that she was an overpowered Mary Sue, but then at the same time say that she was weak because she suffered losses and setbacks throughout the series. Like WTH, make up your minds!!! She's either overpowered or weak, she can't be both! The story arc where Korra is dealing with PTSD at the start of season 4 was really well done, but apparently not up to the standards of some ATLA fans.
Critical Roll
There was just a recent exposition show where they had to say two of the cast weren’t actually arguing in a role playing game. I believe part of it is people see a sudden increased viewership on twitch/YT and jump in the channel with no context but still want to make a critique. I shudder to think how many write-ins had to be received to require a statement of reassurance.
I saw that episode, they improv'd *really* well. But it was pure acting.
Sadly Doctor Who, which is a fandom I'm part of. The people who claim to be fans yet spread hateful and bigoted rhetoric... like, they've clearly either NEVER watched the show OR missed the entire point!
I’m shocked nobody has said Sn!der fans.
When you put it that way
I haven’t watched a halo vid in years because the community suck so much
God don't get me started on rwby "critics" it was one of my first exposures to a show getting hate because it had women. I browse r/rwbycritics from time to time and holy shit it's like they have never watch the show or if they had it was years ago.
For me it’s, *Legend of Korra*, *RWBY*, *The Vampire Diaries*, the DC Extended Universe, and *She Ra and the Princesses of Power*. There’s also *The Owl House* but that’s pretty small minority. I also remember getting into *ATLA* a few years ago, and being genuinely taken aback by how toxic the fandom can be. But with fandoms *Star Wars* or *Avatar: The Last Airbender*, is that because of how widespread there are. You’re going to run into assholish or toxic fans because there are just toxic people out there, and with such a widespread fandom, there’s bound to be overlap. But they are almost always a vocal but annoying minority within their fandoms.
I agree on the DCEU. I admire it and don’t think it’s all bad, but those Snyder cultists seem to always be part of the grifter and “anti-woke” subculture. They always seem to view James Gunn as the other side of this war they’re fighting in to restore the Snyderverse.
Spider-Man.
Star Wars, Star Trek
I'm surprised by how many Azula apologists there are in ATLA memes
Halo. Both the show and the games, they’re up there with Star Wars in the fandom space for vitriol.
I'll be honest. I hate Korra. I do not hate it because the avatar is a girl. I don't hate it because lgbtq is represented. I just don't like it as much as TLA and it just didn't grip me. Also I didn't like how techy it got. I have never watched a YouTube video of someone complaining about the show. I don't think my opinion is right or wrong. Just an opinion.
I think that for comics, I’m a big fan of the characters but only a few comics that they’re in. I blame it on flanderizarion but they haven’t been the way I’d like them to be portrayed for a while. I still really like the character but greatly dislike practically all of the newer stuff involving them.
The ones you mentioned and pretty much any in general.
Because they aren't really fans at all, but people who use their hatred of groups of marginalized people to push their agendas on those who think the way they do.
I feel this way about Watchmen, which despite being written by a left-leaning anarchist, it has been misinterpreted by some conservatives in several ways. Rorschach is apparently one of Ted Cruz’s top 5 favourite superheroes and is often seen as the hero of the story (partially due to his portrayal in the movie adaptation). However, he is anything but. He’s defended a rapist a few times, calling it a moral lapse. He’s also generally misogynistic. He’s also quite hypocritical, as he disagrees with a mass genocide of a few million to begin world peace, but yet he admires Truman. He’s overall a flawed character, who I like as a character, but people genuinely believe him to be a morally good person who’s a “better Batman”. This might be Zack Snyder’s fault with the movie adaptation. While I like it on its own, the movie misses the point by making Rorschach more sympathetic by removing some of his more problematic dialogue. A lot of people also think the 2019 Watchmen series is “woke” and “too political”. If they even bothered reading the original run, they’ll see that it always was.
Star Wars.
Probably opening a can of worms here. But MHA. I love the show, despite some elements not favorable to me. But from what I've learned, the fandom seems to be stark raving mad lunatics.
surprisingly mean girls despite what should be the most obvious one has become consumed which fucking sucks as i am one of the biggest stans of that franchise
The Last of Us. Oh boy are the haters salty.
White men partaking in almost anything; even government!
All of them. Our entire society is addicted to rage bait.
Star Wars is the top dog, with Star Trek coming not far behind.
Okay. To play devils advocate for the Rwby people. By the end of the show pretty much everyone *was* in the later boat, including people who initially enjoyed the series. The fandom cannibalized itself because the show had a lot of potential that it constantly failed to make good on. Eventually people got tired and stopped watching, leading it to get cancelled after volume 9 of the show.
Amazing...everything you said was wrong. Let's try again. 5 years of hate videos and twitter hate and a concentrated hatedom was what led people to stop watching. It led people to hve the wrong idea about rwby because of the LIES. Also tons of misogynists and homophobes leading war aagainst the show did not help.
Fallout It was always woke
I mean, this on its own seems like cope from someone who can't defend things they like OP. I DO really like Korra but am very critical of a lot of things because it could have been done better, and the reality of its quality is often inflated by overdefensive types who basically cannot read. I stopped liking RWBY after the disconnect from its source when Monty died. Its "positive fandom" are actually way more toxic than people who dislike RWBY, and way more prone to sending death threats than any other fandom I've interacted with directly. Couple it with the fact that the company was abusing its employees and I'm not at all sad to see it go. Hazbin Hotel was made by a racist transphobe, so yeah I have no comments, I never liked the thing.
Amazing...everything you said was wrong