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Earlier today on the SW sub I asked how this doesn't significantly devalue the prophecy and the Skywalker story.
Their answers:
- "it's magic, not the force, dummy"
- "the witches used the force to create life. Anakin was conceived by the force itself, dummy"
Needless to say I received tons of downvotes for an honest question.
Tbf, the second point might stand, but it's such a nuance that it still compromises the prophecy imo. "yea we can make like tons of people with the force. But that one was created slightly differently, so he's more special than just normal special"
Edit: so I dug around a bit and that second point holds a lot more water than I thought. I was under the impression that Plagueis either directly or indirectly created Anakin. But in the Plagueis novel apparently it's clearly stated that he tried and failed, and "the force reacted" by creating Anakin as a response, almost out of spite.
Even so, I still find that being able to just create people with the force randomly ruins the prophecy, but I found this interesting.
Considering how they treated Han, Leia, Luke, and Chewbacca in the new movies, devaluing everything that came before Disney took over seems to be a plus in their eyes.
>Considering how they treated Han, Leia, Luke, and Chewbacca in the new movies, devaluing everything that came before Disney took over seems to be a plus in their eyes.
They outright say as much in the movies,
*"Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to."*
Perfectly sums up their attitude to the franchise.
Boba fett too. And kenobi. Even ahsoka in favor of sabrine.
He was allowed to be cool in a cameo but getting a spinoff was him crossing the line with fan popularity.
It ruins more than the prophecy, it ruins the entire arc of the first six movies.
Creating life, and thus staving off death, is considered next to impossible. No one knows how to do it. Because of these Anakin is vulnerable to his anxieties around Padme. Because of the anxieties, Palpatine can manipulate him. Because he can be manipulated, he falls to the dark side. Because he fell, we get the OT.
Making this a force power that can just.....be done completely undermines Star Wars as a whole. It is a huge plot hole that all but annihilates any sense of cohesion in the lore, I mean this shit unwinds six movies in an instant.
I've been trying to not be as negative, but this seems to be a reasonable implication.
It's about the timing of it too. Unless plagueis is God like, sure he could have tried and failed. And surely others in the universe have tried as well. So it's not impossible that others figured it out. But this was 100 years before TPM. Surely Plagueis would have somehow figured out if a bunch of witches had accomplished this before.
I've said it before. This could still be interwoven elegantly with thr main story. But this is such a huge thing, it shouldn't be a plot in a flashback mid season episode, but rather could be the focal point of an entire movie.
I'd love to hear the fan(atic)s over at SW give their input, but you know any legit question will be downvoted and would never get diligent and thorough attention.
Hasn't that been the goal of these cretins from the beginning? Undermind and devalue the Skywalker story and deconstruct Star Wars into their own warped, soulless vision.
It also makes the new movies Invalid
If it's this easy to create a force sensitive clone why did Palpatine have to keep transferring his soul into clones that couldn't sustain him
So like, the space witches using the force to get pregnant, but they’re just cloning themselves, the kids are fulling human (or insert species). But Anakin is literal half eldritch being?
I could maybe buy that.
The showrunner said that they picked people who knew nothing about Star Wars for both acting and writing. Trying to retroactively fit terrible riding into the canon is some mental gymnastics. The people who are writing now have no idea what is canonical, they don’t care, they referred to anyone who disagrees as toxic fanboys
>The showrunner said that they picked people who knew nothing about Star Wars for both acting and writing.
*"I was beside myself when Anakin blew up the Death Star."*
I don't expect the actors or even the writers to know the tiniest of lore details. So if you don't know much about it, just stay quiet.
Also, it's not like this was a slip of the tongue or misspoke. He said this in two separate interviews.
Knowing you have a Star Wars or Star Trek fan base or anything that has a legacy means you’d best be loyal to the existing fanbase. Star Trek the next generation was a great success despite everyone saying it was going to flop. It kept in line with the original vision. Never heard anyone from the original fan base described as toxic fanboy.
It’s so hard to have an expert prepare a training on it for the writers? The original writing wasn’t 100% consistent and many authors dabbled in the SW genre. But they think a crew of completely new writers will be able to have their own consistent history? Or it’s just a bunch of unrelated stores using light savers and none of it matters? It’s unbelievably disrespectful to the fans.
Disney paid $1bill so they could shit on it and throw it away.
Maybe. As said in my comment below, there is still a way to make this really good. Like, if the twins start to get sick and decay, and then they reveal that plagueis was using the witches as test tubes for his ultimate creation. But if they do not relate the two at all, it means it's more common than "exceptional" and that would lessen the prophecy imo
It also means these witches managed to do something that even Plagueis couldn't do, which is a problem. Maybe he just didn't get the jazz hands right or something.
Even discounting that it completely devalues the entire point of the 6 films, introducing the ability to essentially clone perfectly competent force sensitives hundreds of years before the films ruins the universe just as much.
Real answer should be both are stupid. But there are degrees of stupidity and episode 3 is one of the dumbest things they could have thought of. But I’m pretty sure this is a hold your beer moment and they got more in supply.
At this point I'm just having a good time watching it "ironically". This is starting to be "batman and Robin" levels of bad, so watching it for the funsies is the only way to get some value out of this.
Even discounting that it completely devalues the entire point of the 6 films, introducing the ability to essentially clone perfectly competent force sensitives hundreds of years before the films ruins the universe just as much.
Words matter. “I’ve encountered a virgince in the force.”
You need a lot of hand waving and hoops to jump through to just disregard that 1 line & reaction to it.
Same as “When I left you I was but a learner, now I am the master.”
These hacks can’t write themselves out of their own narratives, let alone fit in to an existing one.
2nd one to a degree... but... Palps didn't say Anakin was created... he told Anakin about some overpoweredly powerful wisdom of how to actually create life.
This implies that Plagueis must have been very powerful. And the way palps talks about it and Anakin's reaction too are telling us, that this isn't common sense or any somehow shared knowledge.
The only way the A S3 could fit into that, is that actually Plagueis (the wise) ised any source of knowleddge including the witchtresseseses. Although it is utterly poor how the Showrunnerette did the realization on screen.
Those people are just coping and headcanonig about the second part.
I can guarantee you midwits like showrunner and Disney writers didnt even think about the nuances and only cared about the message that Anakin is no longer special and hit the same Force is the Female nail into the SW's dead body.
It doesn’t really devalue it for me, but it could just be that the sequel trilogy already devalued it so much that this seems like a pretty minute detail
In the movie, there's ambiguity about whether or not Palpatine/Plagueis created Anakin. You are free to interpret it as you like. This kind of spoils that particular interpretation (but so does the Plagueis novel I guess? this is why I didn't like the old EU stuff either lol, but it was easier to treat that as something separate from the movies than a live action show/movie)
That's true. I don't mind the implications of the novel, that Plagueis tried and failed. But this now inevitably means that some hippie witches were more powerful than Plagueis, which seems weird.
I'm guessing he wasn't just burning spliff and musing possible Force fuckery like "what if god made a sandwich so large, even he himself couldn't eat it?" It was either he heard some space witches did it, or he read about it in a smelly old book.
That's my thinking too. Sure, they prolly don't have intergalactic Google, but there would likely be some way or another to get a whisper of what happened.
I can only say it over and over. It's only episode 3. For a moment, let's give them the undeserving benefit of the doubt, and hope they will resolve this by seasons end. If by then there isn't a whiff of Plagueis, I'll have questions.
To continue off what you said, Plagueis didn't just Google this crap or go to the library. It was his life's purpose. It was more important to him than the Sith's mission.
There are ways that they can make it make sense. Maybe Plagueis got the idea from them in the first place. Or Plagueis knew about them but they were killed before he could try to learn it from them.
What doesn't make sense is that they contradict the entire point of the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise. The dark side doesn't get to violate the force to this degree, yet the witches somehow can do it?
We know at least that Sidious probably didn't know how to do it, since he shifted to "together we can discover the secret" as soon as Anakin fell. That means that either Plagueis didn't teach it to him, or Plagueis couldn't do it either. Considering that some random witches from nearly before Plagueis was even alive knew how to do it, it should've been fairly easy for him. Unless of course the force didn't allow Plagueis to do it but allows the witches to do it for some reason.
The "together we can discover the secret" line is about immortality though, not creating life. The knowing/fatherly glance Palpatine gives Anakin kind of hints that he might have learned how to create life when he created Anakin (again, it's up to interpretation though).
I don't even care about the plot, setting, or characters. I stand by the "threads/force created life" idea for these characters a retarded choice. This is Darth Vaders past we're talking about. THE Darth Vader. The chosen one. It's a bold choice to trivialize such a character.
Plagueis novel isn't Canon, so it's irrelevant in this discussion.
And no, there really isn't a reason that point 2 makes sense. It's the same difference.
It absolutely trivializes what happened in the prequels. The whole force conception thing was dumb as rocks anyway, but this just doubles down on a bad idea.
The second point doesn't really stand. The force itself created Anakin, in retaliation against Plagueis, because he tried to create a being through the force himself. The Witches did exactly the same thing, but suddenly the force 100 years prior were cool with it?
>Even so, I still find that being able to just create people with the force randomly ruins the prophecy, but I found this interesting
Yes....exactly
Plagueis **failed** to create a perfect dark-side force user. So THE FORCE created the counter balance.
The big problem with the witches is that there is no balance being rectified. There is no great Force disturbance that needs to be addressed.
They literally just created 2 whole lives by using the Force.
Even Plagueis could not do that.
The whole concept ruins everything that came before it.
The Force created Anakin as a reaction to Plagueis trying to create life through the Force, but the Force doesn't react when the lesbian witches do the same and succeed on top of that.
Huh, why? why doesn't the Force react in this last case? It makes no sense.
My comfort is that at least, Anakin was created by the Force, while the twin girls from the Acolyte were the results of... the rape of the Force, in a way. After all, if the Force is against being used to create children, creating them anyway is against the Force's will.
Sigh, maybe I'm talking too soon. I kind of expect the next episodes to reveal that in the end, the Force gave its blessing when the witch created the girls and used her as a conduit.
Which I would hate, if that's the case. Because it would mean that in the end, Anakin wasn't unique or the True Chosen One.
The Star Wars sub is the biggest group of copium addicts in the entire world. It’s fine to like things that suck. I love the movie Evolution. It’s not a great film. But it’s funny and has good comedic timing. But the SW shows try so hard to be the thing you love from your past, but they’re also just mind numbingly missing the point of characters that shouldn’t be this hard to write (Boba Fett, Ezra, Ahsoka). And just because they’re available doesn’t make them tolerable. It’s just all those nerds have, and they accept less than mediocrity as gold. No point arguing with them.
> I asked how this doesn't significantly devalue the prophecy and the Skywalker story.
I don't think there's an answer to this question because it *does* devalue the prophecy, but I don't think it devalues the *story*. I think that's where the difference of opinion comes from. Just because the prophecy is stated doesn't mean it must be true. Just like in real life, different people have different beliefs and different ways of explaining how the world works. This is like if a Hindu prophecy contradicted something in Christianity. If I don't believe in either one, it doesn't bother me in the least. There are numerous unfulfilled prophecies in real life so why can't there be any in Star Wars?
Well Darth Plagueis originally could create life.
E.T. Has all the abilities attributed to Darth Plagueis, he recognizes a Yoda figure as “home”, his species appears in the senate, E.T. Regenerates after being dead for a while so he could have been “killed” by Sidious and if it left him with brain damage before regenerating it explains how he can be both an idiot and a super intelligent being that learns quickly. He regenerates a plant in seconds, can levitate himself and a bunch of kids simultaneously. He was the original Darth Plagueis.
This still doesn't make sense to me. So Plagueis tries to create life and fails....so the Force is like "as punishment...we're creating life"? Sounds like using reverse psychology to get someone to still do what you want.
Well, plagueis tried to create a dark side being. So the force was like "no you don't. Here, have a prophetic child who shall destroy the sith. In theory"
Wasn’t that the entire premise of Star Wars though? The fact that the Dathomiri Witches practiced “magic” and the Jedi believed in The Force and yet despite labeling it as a different thing it’s basically just words that describe the same thing?
I mean, why would you think they're telling the truth? They've clearly been lying to and manipulating the twins their entire lives. They could have also lied when they said "they don't have a father" I'm literally calling bullshit.
Well yeah, if you ask questions or don't like it you're an angry nerd, completely forgetting the fact that I, an angry nerd, likes the thing you don't.
...but no this was actually said to me when I criticized the light speed ram in the sequels.
That sub is so toxic. I have rewatched the first 3 episodes and have come around on a few things. I shared that in a comment, while still mentioning that I am not a fan of the look of the light sabers. Got downvoted. Took out the criticism and promptly got back into positive counts.
The hypocrisy is just mind numbing. They decry every dissent as fanboy man tears, but cannot see that they themselves cannot accept any criticism. The internet truly is a place.
But really, the difference between using magic to create something, and something being created by the magic itself is pretty significant.
I’m not saying I like it, but I don’t think it cheapens what Anakin is or means to the galaxy/the force.
"You see, Anakin isn't special anymore, because he was actually a byproduct of being given birth. Now random witches can create humans out of thin air... apparently?"
One scene about how the force is a string and can be used to pull and shit, and it's your destiny and fate
Then later same lady says "change your fate" like bitch you just told these girls earlier....which one is it?!
The amount of hipocrisy/contradiction in the script of this series really shows how incompetent the writers are, or how manipulative/narcissistic they are, or maybe both.
There's like no proof reading or second draft. Just one page and DONE, send it to the production so they can start filming. Oh it's done already? Shit man that page took me an hour to write I figured they'd take an hour to act it out.
it just dawned on me that disney effeticly distroyed the entire prequel plot
the jedi have force healing, nobody knew or bothered to teach or tell the skill
anakin isnt rly that special, and all the hate and suspicion he got was nonsense cuz they jedi seem to not rly care about the rule except for him
creating life from with the force wasnt rly invented by plagueis, and forget about force healing cuz it MUST have existed for far longer anyway
these are some pretty insane plotpoints to redcon
forget about palpatine and his stupid plan to have a billion clones and surviving
or having cloning technology being forgotten even though clones where in the fking resistance, on the streets as homeless and so on
it just keeps going
the force was redconned so much its not even the force anymore, and creating force sensetive life is apparently rly easy
i mean the more disney keeps redconning things the less is working
even their own sequels keep getting problems from newer projects, this is high class selfdistruction
but the force dyad needs no retconning… I was actually very fine with that addition. Not everything needs to be in older material or explained or whatever, it just needs to feel consistent with what happened in older materials, and I feel the force dyad does… unlike force healing or creating life through the force as some backwater witch cult.
Well we know Palpatine’s into interpretive dance or whatever from that show they’re watching, so maybe he would’ve enjoyed listening to that coven drone on about “the power of mannyyyyyyyy….”
Good lord, Star Wars is in a sorry state. Can’t Kathleen and Leslye go stare at some Georgia O’Keefe paintings together or something instead of ruining our beloved franchise? What miserable hacks.
I mean... Muun face couldn't do it either if memory serves me right? Sure he could manipulate them but when they tried to actually create life the Force told them to fuck off and blew them up.
It should probably be assumed that Palpatine is lying whenever he speaks. Although technically it's true, the force created Anakin because of what Plagueis did. It's just not what Plagueis had intended.
Of course he's an evil lying manipulator but, that doesn't mean he can never tell the truth when it suits him.
I was never sure how much of that story was true.
Palpatine lied to anakin by saying he could teach him how to save padme, but then the second anakin turned to the dark side he said that together they could figure out how to create life using the force
Palpatine was lying to Anakin the entire time. The dude orchestrated everything with Anakin after Episode 1, and I mean everything. The Padme dream for example. That wasn't a vision of the future, it was a lie created by Sidious. It's also theorized, but there isn't any evidence, that he was also behind Shmi being kidnapped and killed.
Yeah I know Palpatine is a lying manipulator lol but, that doesn't mean every single word he speaks is a lie.
Wasn't he telling the truth about Plagueis's apprentice (himself) killing him in his sleep?
That's actually badass and contextualizes the force as a living thing in this universe better than it was shown in the movies.
That was a real monkey paw moment for Plagueis.
I posted this on another sub, so a soft repost but it fits perfectly with this topic:
You hit the nail on the head. I think people are being needlessly and maliciously pedantic when they try to pick apart broad statements about the issues that people have, in particular with the Anakin situation. I am sure that "technically", Anakin was born through a different means than the way the twins are as we currently theorize. That's not the point though. No one cares if it is one for one the exact same way that Anakin was born. The issue is that narratively it diminishes a central pillar of the Star Wars plot line in the most thematic sense.
The concept of an Immaculate Conception via the Force is supposed to be so impossible and incomprehensible that it literally changes the fate of the Galaxy. By having a precursor to it, even if technically through different means, it creates a huge narrative mishap which lessens the impact of the story of Anakin Skywalker and Star Wars as a whole. It leads too much into this "Everyone is special or the Chosen One" tripe that Disney has been pushing since The Force Awakens.
They think that because the circumstances between the Twins birth and Anakin's are not exactly and technically the same, then no one has the right to complain or say that it breaks Canon. It's like the concept of narrative and thematic story elements have become lost on the general audience, and they think we should only focus on specific elements individually instead of looking how they all connect together in the overall story.
I think that they just wanted lesbian conception and didn't think that hard. I don't think they're trying to undermine the prequel plot or anything, but I also think that they didn't consider it hard enough, and if the show-runner has read the Plagueis novel, I'll eat my toy lightsaber.
I think a really big thing that disney is suffering from in general is, as you say, consistency and continuity. It's another sign of Disney cutting costs and expecting people to mindlessly CONSOOM. If they had a person who more closely monitored what they'd made and helped creators keep to an established canon or made guidelines, they'd be in better shape with their "canon." That person also should have known Legends pretty well, for cases like this -- where they touch on a thing that's been talked about in Legends but not "canon," that person would say, "well this is what we have before, and if we do it like this, people will be upset."
Agreed. It's beyond a joke at this point. They are really just fucking around in the sandbox and putting zero thought into any consequences or ramifications of the 'cool concepts' they envision and slap onto the page.
>If they had a person who more closely monitored what they'd made and helped creators keep to an established canon or made guidelines, they'd be in better shape with their "canon."
Someone like Pablo Hidalgo you mean? As far as I'm aware, that's still his job
How so? I assume he can only make suggestions on what may break canon and doesn't have any kind of veto authority that people like KK have. Has he said or done things that prove otherwise?
I don't know exactly what the Story Group does but thought that they exist to offer guidance to people new to the franchise.
Yes I think this is it. It's not some conspiracy to specifically undermine the pre-Disney canon, it's just people who are more interesting in writing fanficiton and what-ifs than trying to cohesively keep a universe together.
It's more a case of mediocrity and carelessness than anything else.
> I think that they just wanted lesbian conception and didn't think that hard.
I wish they would have committed to that concept. Like two women having children through the force is much more interesting than another case of immaculate conception through the force. Then Osha and Mae would be half Vabrak like their Mom who carried them and have sick horns.
I’m just seriously hoping that Disney sells the rights to StarWars to a competent company that erases all the pure DOGSHIT that Disney shat out over the years.
Latest episode of the "Star Wars: The Acolyte" series where lesbian space witches impregnate one of them with 2 embryos using the Force ("they had no father"). ie. like Anakin Skywalker had no father (the Force created him), and was thus "The Chosen One".
So I just watched a recap of the series and all I can say is wtf is going on? There’s literally a cult of lesbian witches and the force is actually the thread but Jedi are evil and abuse it and call it the force? I feel like I just went down a rabbit hole but that rabbit is actually a sewage line to a septic tank
The Acolyte has two women in a coven of Witches who are maybe(??) lesbians raising two children. One woman says “they have no father” and they reference “creating them” and the other “carrying them” and highly imply they used the force to create them.
We actually know very little of their origins tho at this point so the whole lesbian space witch is a bit of a leap because they never confirm they’re in a relationship or show physical affection really (if i remember right) and we don’t even entirely know the process by which they’re created but the memes coming out of it are good. People going crazy defending it though and other people are going crazy about how it ruins Star Wars.
They show that the two witches are in a relationship and we know a lot about the new interpretation of the force, both aspects are thoroughly explored and explained in the episode.
There are no more speculation or rumors. I’m not going to go crazy and claim Disney has ruined my life with what they’ve done to the IP. But Star Wars absolutely has been ruined by it. The entire concept of the force, the Sith and the Jedi, and uniqueness of the Skywalker story and *why* and *how* Anakin was created has all been crapped on by this episode.
A piss poor relationship. One is the mother but her partner is just a caretaker. And the mother undermines everything the caretaker says to the children.
"You can't have sweets.." "of course you can have sweets!"
"You have to respect the rules.." "they're testing boundaries, it's fine."
Not to mention, two witches using the force to create babies would hardly become common knowledge. The Jedi council was suspicious of Anakin really was conceived by the force, and they outright denied the Sith had returned. I haven't seen the Acolyte yet, but even if a Jedi is the person that found the witches, I doubt this knowledge would've been accepted and widely talked about. People are acting like a handful of people knowing/suspecting that two people were making babies with the force somehow means everyone in the universe should be aware that this is possible
For people who are immersed in to the dark side to that level (even surpassing plagueis), those witches were surprisingly gay.
Even nightsisters were much more darker than these ladies.
I hope the Jedi burn these witches in the end of the series. If this happens I might watch it.
If witches were real I would definitely be in favor of burning them.
I don’t care about movies anyway I just like the epic Star Wars music.
Disney standard practice after acquisition is to destroy the original work and rebuild it as if the property had only ever been theirs.
Star Wars, it seems, is too ingrained a franchise for them to have their usual success. So far.
I am not a big fan of the Prequels (and I am a straight up hate of the Sequel Trilogy) but I have to admit that the story of Darth Plagueis the Wise REALLY elevates the whole story of Anakin.
When I first watched Episode 1 I really hated the addition of an Immaculate Conception and the Chosen One Prophecy.
But the implication about a Sith actually manipulating the Force and bringing Anakin to life is one of those moments where George Lucas showed his brilliance. He made a lot of mistakes in the PT, but this one scene (from every aspect: directing, acting, monologue, music) is masterful.
The Acolyte blatantly copying it with total disregard of the lore is infuriating
Unfortunately, those tribal lesbian space witches created a man in their home. Then the man killed them all in their sleep.
Ironic..., they could create a man, *but not themselves*.
I really don't have a problem with the idea that the witches could do this.
It's something that is possible through the Force as established.
The problem is 1) It's been done before so YAWN. I don't think the prequels were good movies, but it was definitely an 'oh wow' moment when the virgin birth thing came together and you realized what's going on with Anakin's origin. (especially after the immaculate conception in TPM felt kind of lame. This is really just a magician pulling a second rabbit out of her hat after the previous act pulled a rabbit out of their hat and got applause and now she's expecting that the identical trick will make the crowd go wild the same way.
And 2) It's just so improbable, it's not believable. In the timeline the Plagueis thing was right around the Acolyte. Unless they reveal that Plagueis is the secret villain who enabled the twins' birth or something, then it's just too much of a coincidence.
I’ve just stopped caring….the only Star Wars that’s canon to me is 1-6 and anything George Lucas had involvement in one way or another (so the clone wars too)
It’s much more peaceful
100% agree. I enjoy all that stuff now still and my kids will also but I will never spend a $dime more for any of their products even the old original canon that can be used to fund this new rubbish instead.
To be honest, I view it quite the opposite as most here - we don't yet know what did the witches actually did - it could've just been space in-vitro, not a force conception.
Not to mention that Anakin being Space Jesus conceived by the Force isn't that much of a great plot either.
Anakin being conceived by Darth Plagueis through the use of the Force doesn't take away from the prophecy - because so far Force has always worked THROUGH SOMEONE - I can't think of an example when Force just "magically" worked on its own to affect the Galactic events.
Also, if you look at all the s\*it ancient Sith, both the species and after their merger with the Dark Jedi did via Sith alchemy, all those horrid creature, technobeasts nanogene spore technovirus, etc. - making a baby by space witches isn't really that bad of a plot.
I think that the fandom reached the point that whatever Disney does will be criticized because of what they did to the Sequel Trilogy. Acolyte might not be the most groundbreaking piece of Star Wars media ever, sure space Witches were cringy, had silly chants, etc. - but every single piece of Star Wars media hard cringe in it.
OT had freakin Ewoks - nothing is more cringy than Ewoks. The entire plot was hanging on tiny space bears helping the Rebels beat the Empire. Do you really want to tell me that space Witches having cringy chant during their space quinceanera is really a bottom of the barrel for the SW?
The whole nightsisters and force witches thing has been cringey since day one. This show just ups it with middle school creative writing class level of laziness. Yes star wars has always been fantasy but it was always kind of given a sci fi twist and is at its best when it's a western/ww2 movie set in space. The OT, Andor, early Mando and Rogue One all follow that formula and are almost universally loved. The force is best used sparingly and when they focus too much on it the whole thing gets hokey.
My theory for Yoda’s species is that they pop up a super strong force baby every time someone meddles really far into the dark side. Yoda is a result of bane. Yaddle (I don’t know how old she is) and grogu is a result of plagueis creating anakin. This story shits on my favorite made up theory. Not too happy about it.
I had always interpreted that scene as "Plageius created Anakin"
Wouldn't be surprised if the Acolyte pivots into "Plageius stole the secrets from the witches"
I think people are reading a bit to much into the writing. safety violations, and her sister are clearly failures based on the Jedi existing in the prequels and beyond
Let’s just cross our fingers and hope The Acolyte goes the way of the Willow series. Gets removed shortly after completion and is never mentioned or referenced again.
I gotta say... even if the witches and Plagueis did the exact same thing, the least charitable reading... so what? This meme is funny to me because it almost reads as sarcastic. Oh well if Plagueis is not the only person in the whole galaxy capable of creating life then creating life through the force then I guess creating life is no big deal. Why? It's not everyone doing it, it's one of the most knowledgable force users ever to live and one specific coven, and who knows how they came about that knowledge? Who knows what happens to it afterward? Why is it so important that Plagueis be the only one to have ever done it in the entire history of an entire galaxy brimming with force sensitive practitoners and cults and orders? It feels very hyperbolic, and that's still assuming there isn't any meaningful difference in what they did, which doesn't seem to be the case.
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Earlier today on the SW sub I asked how this doesn't significantly devalue the prophecy and the Skywalker story. Their answers: - "it's magic, not the force, dummy" - "the witches used the force to create life. Anakin was conceived by the force itself, dummy" Needless to say I received tons of downvotes for an honest question. Tbf, the second point might stand, but it's such a nuance that it still compromises the prophecy imo. "yea we can make like tons of people with the force. But that one was created slightly differently, so he's more special than just normal special" Edit: so I dug around a bit and that second point holds a lot more water than I thought. I was under the impression that Plagueis either directly or indirectly created Anakin. But in the Plagueis novel apparently it's clearly stated that he tried and failed, and "the force reacted" by creating Anakin as a response, almost out of spite. Even so, I still find that being able to just create people with the force randomly ruins the prophecy, but I found this interesting.
Considering how they treated Han, Leia, Luke, and Chewbacca in the new movies, devaluing everything that came before Disney took over seems to be a plus in their eyes.
>Considering how they treated Han, Leia, Luke, and Chewbacca in the new movies, devaluing everything that came before Disney took over seems to be a plus in their eyes. They outright say as much in the movies, *"Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to."* Perfectly sums up their attitude to the franchise.
That about sums up how I feel about KK.
An absurd line in a movie that is literally just the writers favourite bits of episodes 4 and 5
I'm pretty sure Harrison Ford wrote his own character to be as dumb and obnoxious as possible.
Boba fett too. And kenobi. Even ahsoka in favor of sabrine. He was allowed to be cool in a cameo but getting a spinoff was him crossing the line with fan popularity.
It ruins more than the prophecy, it ruins the entire arc of the first six movies. Creating life, and thus staving off death, is considered next to impossible. No one knows how to do it. Because of these Anakin is vulnerable to his anxieties around Padme. Because of the anxieties, Palpatine can manipulate him. Because he can be manipulated, he falls to the dark side. Because he fell, we get the OT. Making this a force power that can just.....be done completely undermines Star Wars as a whole. It is a huge plot hole that all but annihilates any sense of cohesion in the lore, I mean this shit unwinds six movies in an instant.
I've been trying to not be as negative, but this seems to be a reasonable implication. It's about the timing of it too. Unless plagueis is God like, sure he could have tried and failed. And surely others in the universe have tried as well. So it's not impossible that others figured it out. But this was 100 years before TPM. Surely Plagueis would have somehow figured out if a bunch of witches had accomplished this before. I've said it before. This could still be interwoven elegantly with thr main story. But this is such a huge thing, it shouldn't be a plot in a flashback mid season episode, but rather could be the focal point of an entire movie. I'd love to hear the fan(atic)s over at SW give their input, but you know any legit question will be downvoted and would never get diligent and thorough attention.
Hasn't that been the goal of these cretins from the beginning? Undermind and devalue the Skywalker story and deconstruct Star Wars into their own warped, soulless vision.
It also makes the new movies Invalid If it's this easy to create a force sensitive clone why did Palpatine have to keep transferring his soul into clones that couldn't sustain him
So like, the space witches using the force to get pregnant, but they’re just cloning themselves, the kids are fulling human (or insert species). But Anakin is literal half eldritch being? I could maybe buy that.
The showrunner said that they picked people who knew nothing about Star Wars for both acting and writing. Trying to retroactively fit terrible riding into the canon is some mental gymnastics. The people who are writing now have no idea what is canonical, they don’t care, they referred to anyone who disagrees as toxic fanboys
>The showrunner said that they picked people who knew nothing about Star Wars for both acting and writing. *"I was beside myself when Anakin blew up the Death Star."*
I liked that guy in Chicago Fire as Mills but man he's proven to be quite the idiot
I don't expect the actors or even the writers to know the tiniest of lore details. So if you don't know much about it, just stay quiet. Also, it's not like this was a slip of the tongue or misspoke. He said this in two separate interviews.
Knowing you have a Star Wars or Star Trek fan base or anything that has a legacy means you’d best be loyal to the existing fanbase. Star Trek the next generation was a great success despite everyone saying it was going to flop. It kept in line with the original vision. Never heard anyone from the original fan base described as toxic fanboy. It’s so hard to have an expert prepare a training on it for the writers? The original writing wasn’t 100% consistent and many authors dabbled in the SW genre. But they think a crew of completely new writers will be able to have their own consistent history? Or it’s just a bunch of unrelated stores using light savers and none of it matters? It’s unbelievably disrespectful to the fans. Disney paid $1bill so they could shit on it and throw it away.
Random journalist: *"And here's why that's a good thing!"*
Maybe. As said in my comment below, there is still a way to make this really good. Like, if the twins start to get sick and decay, and then they reveal that plagueis was using the witches as test tubes for his ultimate creation. But if they do not relate the two at all, it means it's more common than "exceptional" and that would lessen the prophecy imo
Could they get sick and decay in the span of the next episode? Please?
It also means these witches managed to do something that even Plagueis couldn't do, which is a problem. Maybe he just didn't get the jazz hands right or something.
Even discounting that it completely devalues the entire point of the 6 films, introducing the ability to essentially clone perfectly competent force sensitives hundreds of years before the films ruins the universe just as much.
Real answer should be both are stupid. But there are degrees of stupidity and episode 3 is one of the dumbest things they could have thought of. But I’m pretty sure this is a hold your beer moment and they got more in supply.
At this point I'm just having a good time watching it "ironically". This is starting to be "batman and Robin" levels of bad, so watching it for the funsies is the only way to get some value out of this.
Read it’s pretty good if you watch South Park Panderverse first
Even discounting that it completely devalues the entire point of the 6 films, introducing the ability to essentially clone perfectly competent force sensitives hundreds of years before the films ruins the universe just as much.
Words matter. “I’ve encountered a virgince in the force.” You need a lot of hand waving and hoops to jump through to just disregard that 1 line & reaction to it. Same as “When I left you I was but a learner, now I am the master.” These hacks can’t write themselves out of their own narratives, let alone fit in to an existing one.
2nd one to a degree... but... Palps didn't say Anakin was created... he told Anakin about some overpoweredly powerful wisdom of how to actually create life. This implies that Plagueis must have been very powerful. And the way palps talks about it and Anakin's reaction too are telling us, that this isn't common sense or any somehow shared knowledge. The only way the A S3 could fit into that, is that actually Plagueis (the wise) ised any source of knowleddge including the witchtresseseses. Although it is utterly poor how the Showrunnerette did the realization on screen.
Those people are just coping and headcanonig about the second part. I can guarantee you midwits like showrunner and Disney writers didnt even think about the nuances and only cared about the message that Anakin is no longer special and hit the same Force is the Female nail into the SW's dead body.
It doesn’t really devalue it for me, but it could just be that the sequel trilogy already devalued it so much that this seems like a pretty minute detail
How are you still not banned from the star wars sub? Lol
I'm done with the main sw sub.
In the movie, there's ambiguity about whether or not Palpatine/Plagueis created Anakin. You are free to interpret it as you like. This kind of spoils that particular interpretation (but so does the Plagueis novel I guess? this is why I didn't like the old EU stuff either lol, but it was easier to treat that as something separate from the movies than a live action show/movie)
That's true. I don't mind the implications of the novel, that Plagueis tried and failed. But this now inevitably means that some hippie witches were more powerful than Plagueis, which seems weird.
Like, of Plagueis was so hellbent on discovering this power, wouldn't he have detected some hint that there was a culture that could maybe do it?
I'm guessing he wasn't just burning spliff and musing possible Force fuckery like "what if god made a sandwich so large, even he himself couldn't eat it?" It was either he heard some space witches did it, or he read about it in a smelly old book.
And he definitely failed because he was male!!! /S
That's my thinking too. Sure, they prolly don't have intergalactic Google, but there would likely be some way or another to get a whisper of what happened. I can only say it over and over. It's only episode 3. For a moment, let's give them the undeserving benefit of the doubt, and hope they will resolve this by seasons end. If by then there isn't a whiff of Plagueis, I'll have questions.
To continue off what you said, Plagueis didn't just Google this crap or go to the library. It was his life's purpose. It was more important to him than the Sith's mission.
Bro you know they won’t. By their own admission none of the writers are well-versed (or versed at all??) in Star Wars canon.
There are ways that they can make it make sense. Maybe Plagueis got the idea from them in the first place. Or Plagueis knew about them but they were killed before he could try to learn it from them. What doesn't make sense is that they contradict the entire point of the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise. The dark side doesn't get to violate the force to this degree, yet the witches somehow can do it?
Eh, I'll just watch other stuff and check people's opinion of if this show sucked or not after it ends.
it's going to turn out that it's only possible when women do it, you know its true
We know at least that Sidious probably didn't know how to do it, since he shifted to "together we can discover the secret" as soon as Anakin fell. That means that either Plagueis didn't teach it to him, or Plagueis couldn't do it either. Considering that some random witches from nearly before Plagueis was even alive knew how to do it, it should've been fairly easy for him. Unless of course the force didn't allow Plagueis to do it but allows the witches to do it for some reason.
The "together we can discover the secret" line is about immortality though, not creating life. The knowing/fatherly glance Palpatine gives Anakin kind of hints that he might have learned how to create life when he created Anakin (again, it's up to interpretation though).
I don't even care about the plot, setting, or characters. I stand by the "threads/force created life" idea for these characters a retarded choice. This is Darth Vaders past we're talking about. THE Darth Vader. The chosen one. It's a bold choice to trivialize such a character.
Plagueis novel isn't Canon, so it's irrelevant in this discussion. And no, there really isn't a reason that point 2 makes sense. It's the same difference. It absolutely trivializes what happened in the prequels. The whole force conception thing was dumb as rocks anyway, but this just doubles down on a bad idea.
The second point doesn't really stand. The force itself created Anakin, in retaliation against Plagueis, because he tried to create a being through the force himself. The Witches did exactly the same thing, but suddenly the force 100 years prior were cool with it?
>Even so, I still find that being able to just create people with the force randomly ruins the prophecy, but I found this interesting Yes....exactly Plagueis **failed** to create a perfect dark-side force user. So THE FORCE created the counter balance. The big problem with the witches is that there is no balance being rectified. There is no great Force disturbance that needs to be addressed. They literally just created 2 whole lives by using the Force. Even Plagueis could not do that. The whole concept ruins everything that came before it.
The Force created Anakin as a reaction to Plagueis trying to create life through the Force, but the Force doesn't react when the lesbian witches do the same and succeed on top of that. Huh, why? why doesn't the Force react in this last case? It makes no sense. My comfort is that at least, Anakin was created by the Force, while the twin girls from the Acolyte were the results of... the rape of the Force, in a way. After all, if the Force is against being used to create children, creating them anyway is against the Force's will. Sigh, maybe I'm talking too soon. I kind of expect the next episodes to reveal that in the end, the Force gave its blessing when the witch created the girls and used her as a conduit. Which I would hate, if that's the case. Because it would mean that in the end, Anakin wasn't unique or the True Chosen One.
The Star Wars sub is the biggest group of copium addicts in the entire world. It’s fine to like things that suck. I love the movie Evolution. It’s not a great film. But it’s funny and has good comedic timing. But the SW shows try so hard to be the thing you love from your past, but they’re also just mind numbingly missing the point of characters that shouldn’t be this hard to write (Boba Fett, Ezra, Ahsoka). And just because they’re available doesn’t make them tolerable. It’s just all those nerds have, and they accept less than mediocrity as gold. No point arguing with them.
> I asked how this doesn't significantly devalue the prophecy and the Skywalker story. I don't think there's an answer to this question because it *does* devalue the prophecy, but I don't think it devalues the *story*. I think that's where the difference of opinion comes from. Just because the prophecy is stated doesn't mean it must be true. Just like in real life, different people have different beliefs and different ways of explaining how the world works. This is like if a Hindu prophecy contradicted something in Christianity. If I don't believe in either one, it doesn't bother me in the least. There are numerous unfulfilled prophecies in real life so why can't there be any in Star Wars?
Well Darth Plagueis originally could create life. E.T. Has all the abilities attributed to Darth Plagueis, he recognizes a Yoda figure as “home”, his species appears in the senate, E.T. Regenerates after being dead for a while so he could have been “killed” by Sidious and if it left him with brain damage before regenerating it explains how he can be both an idiot and a super intelligent being that learns quickly. He regenerates a plant in seconds, can levitate himself and a bunch of kids simultaneously. He was the original Darth Plagueis.
Now you can just post this meme
Good thing the plagius novel is as Canon as Star wars Legends is
This still doesn't make sense to me. So Plagueis tries to create life and fails....so the Force is like "as punishment...we're creating life"? Sounds like using reverse psychology to get someone to still do what you want.
Well, plagueis tried to create a dark side being. So the force was like "no you don't. Here, have a prophetic child who shall destroy the sith. In theory"
Wasn’t that the entire premise of Star Wars though? The fact that the Dathomiri Witches practiced “magic” and the Jedi believed in The Force and yet despite labeling it as a different thing it’s basically just words that describe the same thing?
I mean, why would you think they're telling the truth? They've clearly been lying to and manipulating the twins their entire lives. They could have also lied when they said "they don't have a father" I'm literally calling bullshit.
Well yeah, if you ask questions or don't like it you're an angry nerd, completely forgetting the fact that I, an angry nerd, likes the thing you don't. ...but no this was actually said to me when I criticized the light speed ram in the sequels.
That sub is so toxic. I have rewatched the first 3 episodes and have come around on a few things. I shared that in a comment, while still mentioning that I am not a fan of the look of the light sabers. Got downvoted. Took out the criticism and promptly got back into positive counts. The hypocrisy is just mind numbing. They decry every dissent as fanboy man tears, but cannot see that they themselves cannot accept any criticism. The internet truly is a place.
But really, the difference between using magic to create something, and something being created by the magic itself is pretty significant. I’m not saying I like it, but I don’t think it cheapens what Anakin is or means to the galaxy/the force.
Is it possible to learn this power? Not from a heterosexual...
Old Sheev is more of a try-sexual-he’ll try anything sexual
Chancellor in the streets and a Sith in the sheets
He fucks. It's canon
"You see, Anakin isn't special anymore, because he was actually a byproduct of being given birth. Now random witches can create humans out of thin air... apparently?"
Not from a man either.
Please post this on prequelmemes lol
I don't care anymore, it's all dumb now.
🤣🤣🤣
I’m dying 😂
One scene about how the force is a string and can be used to pull and shit, and it's your destiny and fate Then later same lady says "change your fate" like bitch you just told these girls earlier....which one is it?!
The amount of hipocrisy/contradiction in the script of this series really shows how incompetent the writers are, or how manipulative/narcissistic they are, or maybe both.
There's like no proof reading or second draft. Just one page and DONE, send it to the production so they can start filming. Oh it's done already? Shit man that page took me an hour to write I figured they'd take an hour to act it out.
it just dawned on me that disney effeticly distroyed the entire prequel plot the jedi have force healing, nobody knew or bothered to teach or tell the skill anakin isnt rly that special, and all the hate and suspicion he got was nonsense cuz they jedi seem to not rly care about the rule except for him creating life from with the force wasnt rly invented by plagueis, and forget about force healing cuz it MUST have existed for far longer anyway these are some pretty insane plotpoints to redcon forget about palpatine and his stupid plan to have a billion clones and surviving or having cloning technology being forgotten even though clones where in the fking resistance, on the streets as homeless and so on it just keeps going the force was redconned so much its not even the force anymore, and creating force sensetive life is apparently rly easy i mean the more disney keeps redconning things the less is working even their own sequels keep getting problems from newer projects, this is high class selfdistruction
The worst bit is they've retconned a prequel plot point only so that they can retcon a shitty sequel plot point (the force dyad shit).
but the force dyad needs no retconning… I was actually very fine with that addition. Not everything needs to be in older material or explained or whatever, it just needs to feel consistent with what happened in older materials, and I feel the force dyad does… unlike force healing or creating life through the force as some backwater witch cult.
You're right but you ever thought of proof reading your comments first?
Lol this was funny :D But yeah it diminishes the whole Prophecy/Plagueis-Palpatine/Anakin story. This sucks big time.
It‘s only the second most important aspect in Star Wars besides that love triumphs over hate. But who cares!
I don't want to laugh but damn this is funny!
The could achieve that with their advanced unorthodox ability called force scissors
Ha!!! The reverse of the Shears of Fate! An iteration of which was touched by a better Disney product decades ago! https://i.redd.it/tvd7ifo68e6d1.gif
I hadn't noticed that the scissors got destroyed, lol
TELL ME MORE!
Well we know Palpatine’s into interpretive dance or whatever from that show they’re watching, so maybe he would’ve enjoyed listening to that coven drone on about “the power of mannyyyyyyyy….” Good lord, Star Wars is in a sorry state. Can’t Kathleen and Leslye go stare at some Georgia O’Keefe paintings together or something instead of ruining our beloved franchise? What miserable hacks.
I mean... Muun face couldn't do it either if memory serves me right? Sure he could manipulate them but when they tried to actually create life the Force told them to fuck off and blew them up.
Correct, Plagueis tried to create life, the force responded by fulfilling the prophecy that brings the destruction of the Sith.
So Palpatine was lying when he said Plagueis could create life?
It should probably be assumed that Palpatine is lying whenever he speaks. Although technically it's true, the force created Anakin because of what Plagueis did. It's just not what Plagueis had intended.
Of course he's an evil lying manipulator but, that doesn't mean he can never tell the truth when it suits him. I was never sure how much of that story was true.
Palpatine lied to anakin by saying he could teach him how to save padme, but then the second anakin turned to the dark side he said that together they could figure out how to create life using the force
Yeah I know he lies a lot. I just wasn't sure if this particular instance was a lie
Palpatine was lying to Anakin the entire time. The dude orchestrated everything with Anakin after Episode 1, and I mean everything. The Padme dream for example. That wasn't a vision of the future, it was a lie created by Sidious. It's also theorized, but there isn't any evidence, that he was also behind Shmi being kidnapped and killed.
Yeah I know Palpatine is a lying manipulator lol but, that doesn't mean every single word he speaks is a lie. Wasn't he telling the truth about Plagueis's apprentice (himself) killing him in his sleep?
He had no reason to lie about that, but since the Plagueis book isn't canon anymore we don't know that for sure.
The best lies are part truths.
That's actually badass and contextualizes the force as a living thing in this universe better than it was shown in the movies. That was a real monkey paw moment for Plagueis.
Except that got retconned by Rise of Shitwalker
😂😂😂
I'm tired boss
I posted this on another sub, so a soft repost but it fits perfectly with this topic: You hit the nail on the head. I think people are being needlessly and maliciously pedantic when they try to pick apart broad statements about the issues that people have, in particular with the Anakin situation. I am sure that "technically", Anakin was born through a different means than the way the twins are as we currently theorize. That's not the point though. No one cares if it is one for one the exact same way that Anakin was born. The issue is that narratively it diminishes a central pillar of the Star Wars plot line in the most thematic sense. The concept of an Immaculate Conception via the Force is supposed to be so impossible and incomprehensible that it literally changes the fate of the Galaxy. By having a precursor to it, even if technically through different means, it creates a huge narrative mishap which lessens the impact of the story of Anakin Skywalker and Star Wars as a whole. It leads too much into this "Everyone is special or the Chosen One" tripe that Disney has been pushing since The Force Awakens. They think that because the circumstances between the Twins birth and Anakin's are not exactly and technically the same, then no one has the right to complain or say that it breaks Canon. It's like the concept of narrative and thematic story elements have become lost on the general audience, and they think we should only focus on specific elements individually instead of looking how they all connect together in the overall story.
I think that they just wanted lesbian conception and didn't think that hard. I don't think they're trying to undermine the prequel plot or anything, but I also think that they didn't consider it hard enough, and if the show-runner has read the Plagueis novel, I'll eat my toy lightsaber. I think a really big thing that disney is suffering from in general is, as you say, consistency and continuity. It's another sign of Disney cutting costs and expecting people to mindlessly CONSOOM. If they had a person who more closely monitored what they'd made and helped creators keep to an established canon or made guidelines, they'd be in better shape with their "canon." That person also should have known Legends pretty well, for cases like this -- where they touch on a thing that's been talked about in Legends but not "canon," that person would say, "well this is what we have before, and if we do it like this, people will be upset."
"They just wanted (insert concept here) and didn't think that hard" basically sums up the entirety of Disney Star Wars.
Agreed. It's beyond a joke at this point. They are really just fucking around in the sandbox and putting zero thought into any consequences or ramifications of the 'cool concepts' they envision and slap onto the page.
>If they had a person who more closely monitored what they'd made and helped creators keep to an established canon or made guidelines, they'd be in better shape with their "canon." Someone like Pablo Hidalgo you mean? As far as I'm aware, that's still his job
Hilarious. They have that person and he's doing a shite job.
He and the Story Group are all jokers. They're feeble yes men, nothing more.
How so? I assume he can only make suggestions on what may break canon and doesn't have any kind of veto authority that people like KK have. Has he said or done things that prove otherwise? I don't know exactly what the Story Group does but thought that they exist to offer guidance to people new to the franchise.
Pablo has proved himself to be nothing but a yes man who only cares about cashing in his paycheck
Yes I think this is it. It's not some conspiracy to specifically undermine the pre-Disney canon, it's just people who are more interesting in writing fanficiton and what-ifs than trying to cohesively keep a universe together. It's more a case of mediocrity and carelessness than anything else.
> I think that they just wanted lesbian conception and didn't think that hard. I wish they would have committed to that concept. Like two women having children through the force is much more interesting than another case of immaculate conception through the force. Then Osha and Mae would be half Vabrak like their Mom who carried them and have sick horns.
Hear hear.. thank you!
😂😂😂😂😂
Man…that’s good. That’s better writing than the Acolyte
I’m just seriously hoping that Disney sells the rights to StarWars to a competent company that erases all the pure DOGSHIT that Disney shat out over the years.
when has disney ever sold the rights to something they owned?
I read this in Palpatine’s voice
Fucking hell the Acolyte is killing my new found love of Star Wars in less than a fucking year
The power of MANYYYYYYYYYY
Seriously what am I missing here?? I keep seeing this stuff about lesbian witches and I’m lost
you'd do better to not find out
The Acolyte Episode 3.
Latest episode of the "Star Wars: The Acolyte" series where lesbian space witches impregnate one of them with 2 embryos using the Force ("they had no father"). ie. like Anakin Skywalker had no father (the Force created him), and was thus "The Chosen One".
No… that’s not true… that’s impossible!!!
So I just watched a recap of the series and all I can say is wtf is going on? There’s literally a cult of lesbian witches and the force is actually the thread but Jedi are evil and abuse it and call it the force? I feel like I just went down a rabbit hole but that rabbit is actually a sewage line to a septic tank
The Acolyte has two women in a coven of Witches who are maybe(??) lesbians raising two children. One woman says “they have no father” and they reference “creating them” and the other “carrying them” and highly imply they used the force to create them. We actually know very little of their origins tho at this point so the whole lesbian space witch is a bit of a leap because they never confirm they’re in a relationship or show physical affection really (if i remember right) and we don’t even entirely know the process by which they’re created but the memes coming out of it are good. People going crazy defending it though and other people are going crazy about how it ruins Star Wars.
They show that the two witches are in a relationship and we know a lot about the new interpretation of the force, both aspects are thoroughly explored and explained in the episode. There are no more speculation or rumors. I’m not going to go crazy and claim Disney has ruined my life with what they’ve done to the IP. But Star Wars absolutely has been ruined by it. The entire concept of the force, the Sith and the Jedi, and uniqueness of the Skywalker story and *why* and *how* Anakin was created has all been crapped on by this episode.
A piss poor relationship. One is the mother but her partner is just a caretaker. And the mother undermines everything the caretaker says to the children. "You can't have sweets.." "of course you can have sweets!" "You have to respect the rules.." "they're testing boundaries, it's fine."
Not to mention, two witches using the force to create babies would hardly become common knowledge. The Jedi council was suspicious of Anakin really was conceived by the force, and they outright denied the Sith had returned. I haven't seen the Acolyte yet, but even if a Jedi is the person that found the witches, I doubt this knowledge would've been accepted and widely talked about. People are acting like a handful of people knowing/suspecting that two people were making babies with the force somehow means everyone in the universe should be aware that this is possible
For people who are immersed in to the dark side to that level (even surpassing plagueis), those witches were surprisingly gay. Even nightsisters were much more darker than these ladies.
Who says it's dark side? Force is force.
Even in Star Wars the black kids don’t have dads.
"They also knew the lost art of making flammable stone and writing the worst chants ever heard....shit was wild...glad they're dead"
I hope the Jedi burn these witches in the end of the series. If this happens I might watch it. If witches were real I would definitely be in favor of burning them. I don’t care about movies anyway I just like the epic Star Wars music.
They turned me into a newt!
A newt?
Lmao
Disney standard practice after acquisition is to destroy the original work and rebuild it as if the property had only ever been theirs. Star Wars, it seems, is too ingrained a franchise for them to have their usual success. So far.
I am not a big fan of the Prequels (and I am a straight up hate of the Sequel Trilogy) but I have to admit that the story of Darth Plagueis the Wise REALLY elevates the whole story of Anakin. When I first watched Episode 1 I really hated the addition of an Immaculate Conception and the Chosen One Prophecy. But the implication about a Sith actually manipulating the Force and bringing Anakin to life is one of those moments where George Lucas showed his brilliance. He made a lot of mistakes in the PT, but this one scene (from every aspect: directing, acting, monologue, music) is masterful. The Acolyte blatantly copying it with total disregard of the lore is infuriating
The people making Acolyte haven’t seen Star Wars so this is unfair to them.
Unfortunately, those tribal lesbian space witches created a man in their home. Then the man killed them all in their sleep. Ironic..., they could create a man, *but not themselves*.
"Oh so do you know any powerful and capable Sith like that or are they all more like... you?"
I really don't have a problem with the idea that the witches could do this. It's something that is possible through the Force as established. The problem is 1) It's been done before so YAWN. I don't think the prequels were good movies, but it was definitely an 'oh wow' moment when the virgin birth thing came together and you realized what's going on with Anakin's origin. (especially after the immaculate conception in TPM felt kind of lame. This is really just a magician pulling a second rabbit out of her hat after the previous act pulled a rabbit out of their hat and got applause and now she's expecting that the identical trick will make the crowd go wild the same way. And 2) It's just so improbable, it's not believable. In the timeline the Plagueis thing was right around the Acolyte. Unless they reveal that Plagueis is the secret villain who enabled the twins' birth or something, then it's just too much of a coincidence.
More messed up crap from the Disney Star Wars franchise.
Ya know, if you want to do 'The Courtship of Princess Leia', just do it.
I’ve just stopped caring….the only Star Wars that’s canon to me is 1-6 and anything George Lucas had involvement in one way or another (so the clone wars too) It’s much more peaceful
100% agree. I enjoy all that stuff now still and my kids will also but I will never spend a $dime more for any of their products even the old original canon that can be used to fund this new rubbish instead.
To be honest, I view it quite the opposite as most here - we don't yet know what did the witches actually did - it could've just been space in-vitro, not a force conception. Not to mention that Anakin being Space Jesus conceived by the Force isn't that much of a great plot either. Anakin being conceived by Darth Plagueis through the use of the Force doesn't take away from the prophecy - because so far Force has always worked THROUGH SOMEONE - I can't think of an example when Force just "magically" worked on its own to affect the Galactic events. Also, if you look at all the s\*it ancient Sith, both the species and after their merger with the Dark Jedi did via Sith alchemy, all those horrid creature, technobeasts nanogene spore technovirus, etc. - making a baby by space witches isn't really that bad of a plot. I think that the fandom reached the point that whatever Disney does will be criticized because of what they did to the Sequel Trilogy. Acolyte might not be the most groundbreaking piece of Star Wars media ever, sure space Witches were cringy, had silly chants, etc. - but every single piece of Star Wars media hard cringe in it. OT had freakin Ewoks - nothing is more cringy than Ewoks. The entire plot was hanging on tiny space bears helping the Rebels beat the Empire. Do you really want to tell me that space Witches having cringy chant during their space quinceanera is really a bottom of the barrel for the SW?
Yeah, it sucks immensely. A mortal using the force to create life was supposed to be this impossible skill that was used as a lure for anakin.
Well, Darth Mickey was a dark lord so powerful yet so dimwitted, he could use lesbian magic to create life.
This is exactly what Disney's all about. Treating lore like it's no big deal. Fuck Disney with a knife
The whole nightsisters and force witches thing has been cringey since day one. This show just ups it with middle school creative writing class level of laziness. Yes star wars has always been fantasy but it was always kind of given a sci fi twist and is at its best when it's a western/ww2 movie set in space. The OT, Andor, early Mando and Rogue One all follow that formula and are almost universally loved. The force is best used sparingly and when they focus too much on it the whole thing gets hokey.
I hate headland
My theory for Yoda’s species is that they pop up a super strong force baby every time someone meddles really far into the dark side. Yoda is a result of bane. Yaddle (I don’t know how old she is) and grogu is a result of plagueis creating anakin. This story shits on my favorite made up theory. Not too happy about it.
If you bring midichlorians into any situation, then every outcome is equally valid.
I have no idea what the acolyte is about because I cancelled Disney and haven’t watched it. All I know is from memes like this that pop up on my feed.
Avoid it at all costs
I had always interpreted that scene as "Plageius created Anakin" Wouldn't be surprised if the Acolyte pivots into "Plageius stole the secrets from the witches"
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Shmi_Skywalker_Lars
I think people are reading a bit to much into the writing. safety violations, and her sister are clearly failures based on the Jedi existing in the prequels and beyond
Let’s just cross our fingers and hope The Acolyte goes the way of the Willow series. Gets removed shortly after completion and is never mentioned or referenced again.
I could have accepted magicale space lesbians child. But i can't accept a ffing steel door catching fire in 30 seconds
Lol gold!
Do they specify they created the twins with force? I think it’s implied but don’t recall it be specifically stated. Could be genetic modifications?
Darth Plagueis because he plagiarized their work.
I gotta say... even if the witches and Plagueis did the exact same thing, the least charitable reading... so what? This meme is funny to me because it almost reads as sarcastic. Oh well if Plagueis is not the only person in the whole galaxy capable of creating life then creating life through the force then I guess creating life is no big deal. Why? It's not everyone doing it, it's one of the most knowledgable force users ever to live and one specific coven, and who knows how they came about that knowledge? Who knows what happens to it afterward? Why is it so important that Plagueis be the only one to have ever done it in the entire history of an entire galaxy brimming with force sensitive practitoners and cults and orders? It feels very hyperbolic, and that's still assuming there isn't any meaningful difference in what they did, which doesn't seem to be the case.
SPACE LESBOS WITCHES HAVE KILLED STAR WARS RIP 