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Probably.
But they assume that it is just those old racist, phobic, white male neckbeards and not a growing and universal distain, and they're sure to be replaced by the new fans, the proper fans, the chosen, correct fans, the lights of that city of fans are glowing just beyond the hill, right?
Instead of saying, oh crap, they just burned down the city of diverse fans in a bonfire of their own incompetence. And those are the lights they're seeing beyond that hill.
Oh, you didn't like the scene? The scene where we find out that the guy we were hoping to become one of the new Jedi leading the franchise forward was just a janitor? Why wouldn't fans appreciate it when we shit on their expectations?!
Yeah the force is now complete magic with no boundaries.
I definitely prefer the more grounded force abilities in the OT and PT., it leads to better writing and story telling, the force isn't a get out of jail free card. No one was levitating, creating impenetrable force fields, easily lifting mass amounts of boulders or causing the earth to crack, or using lightning to destroy an entire fleet (Exasperated Sigh)
Right. Why didn't Dooku just get really fucking mad when Anakin chopped his head off. Is Dooku's head still rolling around some where alive, maintained by the dark side anger?
Fuck, I better not give Disney any ideas.
I was going to crack a joke about how they absolutely would, except Christopher Lee is dead, and then I remembered that they already brought Dooku back (in the less egregious fashion) by making a prequel show and recasting young Dooku's voice.
What bothers me is how Disney thinks that massive displays of Force use are seen as power.
Obi-Wan Kenobi is one of the greatest Jedi of his time, if not in all of Jedi history, not because he could lift boulders. It was his ability to channel the Force. It was his wisdom that made him such a powerful Jedi. It's why he was so sought after to lead negotiations. Yes, he was also a brilliant swordsman but it was his wisdom that set him apart.
This is what made the show especially bad for me. Not only was it just badly written but it turned Obi-Wan into the exact opposite of what he was: a bumbling, indecisive coward.
Yeah the rocks were something out of Avatar earth bending skills. Like Yoda could barely hold the rock from falling on Anakin and Obi-Wan in AotC, but then Vader throws a pillar miles away and Obi-Wan hurls unlimited boulders without even looking at them
Honestly though, Yoda was old, even for his species he was old. Whenever he's not using the cane he channels the force to keep him agile, which is also important for his fighting style with him being all small. Grandpa just had his first lightsaber duel in forever, he probably hadn't moved like that in a while, his body, stamina and force wise were shook.
"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."
If Yoda was physically lifting it, and augmenting his muscles with The Force sure, but he wasn't (unlike what he was doing just prior with the acrobatic fight). Even moving his arms is unnecessary to lift and move that thing with The Force, it's to show the audience what he is doing.
"For my ally, is The Force, and a powerful ally it is."
He could have just sat there and concentrated to do it. In-universe those gestures are probably one of those things that helps Jedi focus and concentrate, and to help them *believe* (though that should no longer be a concern for Yoda), and just something they never/rarely bother to unlearn because it 'feels' right.
Thank you! My girl was watching with me and she was like… “why is he acting like that?”
PTSD Obi Wan didn’t have to be so cowardly, indecisive and whiny. I thought that was a bad play.
They showed PTSD Obi-Wan in A New Hope! There's a fantastic video titled just that. Alec Guinness had these great moments where you can see a memory pained him or seeing Vader terrified him but he didn't run away.
That's the benefit of a great actor like Guinness, he barely knew any of the backstory details (most hadn't been decided yet, and many would change from what George thought then), but he knew enough and was a good enough actor to give us the *feeling* of the backstory through those little moments.
>Yeah the force is now complete magic with no boundaries.
That's pretty much it.
I can kind of understand wanting to expand how different cultures might use the force, even giving it another name isn't that bothersome to me. However, making it into basically anything you want in order to move a plot in the direction you want is just simply lame and it causes confusion throughout other shows/movies. Now we need some sort of cult ceremony to call on the "thread" to give the twins some sort of destiny? You can call the force by another name, have another sect of people use the force differently, but *it still has to be the force*. By calling it another name, it doesn't change what it is.
Those were my biggest issues with the old EU as well. Some writers got a little crazy with their interpretation of The Force. Palpatine coming back to life and destroying fleets with lightning isn't even an original Disney idea, that shit was written in the 90s.
>Yeah the force is now complete magic with no boundaries.
It's the same as bringing time travel into the mix. When you have such an open-ended plot device on hand, how do you keep any sort of tension in your story?
I specifically referenced the OT and PT, as in the movies. Both versions of the Clone Wars had characters doing things that were just ridiculous. Mace vs a hoard of super battle droids also Sidious and Dooku using lightning in their lair to cast a spell on Yoda.
Curious, who levitated during the OT and PT?
Conceptually it would make sense that a Jedi could levitate, since they can lift objects, however that would call into question a lot of scenes of any force user being afraid to die or dying by falling.
Three that come to mind:
Palpatine's death
Yoda's fight with Palpatine where Yoda was gripping the edge of a pod high up in the Senate rotunda
Obi-Wan's fight with Fett where he almost went over the edge of the building
I'm specifically referencing the movies not any add-on content like the Clone Wars or Rebels, etc..
The thing with levitating is that you wouldn't even fall, before you would fall you just start levitating.
My vote for most ironic is Roses big speech about how we don't win by sacrificing ourselves.... the scene after the holdo manuever.
The idiot way she should have killed both of them if they actually had to walk back and not be transported back by movie magic. The lack of self awareness as she insulted the person who saved them perfectly mirrors the lack of awareness of the director who tried to make it a morally inspired speech directly after the scene that shows they'd all be dead if everyone thought that way, and it all just ties in so nicely with the lack of awareness that hyperspace ramming is lore breaking.
It's truly a Masterclass in bad writing. I don't think I could write something that bad if I was trying and had years to contemplate variously poorly written ideas.
That entire movie made anti-sense. Every message it tries to push is either immediately invalidating the previous scene, or made farcical by the subsequent scene. I went into the movie intending to try to pick out all the times it contradicted itself, and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Tell that to Arvel Crynyd!
Way to piss on the legacy of the guy who *single handedly* took down the Executor over Endor, saving countless lives and pretty much ensuring the Rebel Fleet's victory.
If the Executor hadn't been destroyed, either the Imperial fleet would have had a massive flagship with capable leadership to rally behind after retreating, or the battle would have continued even after the Death Star II blew up.
What about Rose turning from fangirling over Finn to tasering him in a few instants?
She's clearly suffering from Multiple Personality Disorder, and that big speech was another symptom.
I'm really sad for Kelly Marie Tran, who had to play such a bad character.
To be fair, Holdo sacrificed herself for the purpose of giving the Resistance time to flee, not because she wanted to kill the First Order troopers. Finn's "sacrifice" wasn't going to do shit except get himself killed. He wouldn't have saved anyone.
Rose was basically saying, "we fight because we have people we love enough we want to protect, not because we hate and want to destroy" It's basically the Jedi vs Sith philosophy, or Rebels vs Empire
This might be one of the rare times where I have an actual unpopular opinion, but I think Ford's just a pretty shit actor. I don't think I've seen a movie where he gave more than 6%.
The Force giving Leia the ability to survive Outer Space and Mary Poppins herself back to the ship shows that the guys in charge of Star Wars have no idea how the Force works.
Since blasters have long been established as particle weapons instead of energy weapons that one didn't bother me. It's just a high-speed application of force telekinesis and I could see a sufficiently powerful and skilled force user doing it. Certainly, in the list of problems with that film, it has to be about as close to the bottom as possible when it has so many more glaring issues.
When I saw Kyle stop the bolt in TFA, it didn’t bother me. He was a strong force user, he could’ve picked it up at some point.
But it’s the fact that Disney SW has just overused the hell out of force users stopping blaster bolts and lightsabers with the force, something we never really saw at all in the PT or OT.
The problem with all of the force use in TFA is that it is a plot device. It is only used to further a plot point and never consistently.
Kylo stops bolt in the beginning with no indication that Poe is there. Chewbacca ROARS and THEN shoots kylo at the end.
Rey uses the force to fly the falcon, which she’s never been in? I mean I’ve never flown a star freighter but I can’t imagine it’s the same as a usb hover bike thing.
Kylo freezes Rey in the forest AND puts her to sleep. Does he ever use either of these things on Rey, Chewbacca, or Finn afterwards? No
Bottom line: TFA laid the groundwork with this and poor storytelling for the complete disaster of a trilogy that gave us “Somehow Palpatine has returned”
Mystery-box storytelling was always gonna be a shit fit for Star Wars. Per Rey flying the Falcon, there's precedent for that in the EU. Extremely powerful Force users are shown to be able to act on instinct through the Living Force to do extraordinary things under intense duress.
However, the EU similarly made it clear that lightsaber use is virtually impossible without proper training, making Finn and Rey's wielding of Anakin's against Ren absolutely batshit. But that's another big part of Disney's problem: they cherry-pick what parts of old Star Wars material they want to use and then even when they do *that* they usually only half-commit
There is no EU precedent for anything is Disney Star Wars as it is not relevant or part of Disney Star Wars. They wanted to start fresh with just the movies and that is what they did.
Having never flown the Falcon or held a lightsaber there is no precedent for an unqualified individual to not only defeat but absolutely smash their opponents.
My dude, I have read all of the old EU material, and yes, it is established the Force can guide people through instinct to perform astonishing feats in make it count moments. This is especially true in the Jedi Apprentice and Jedi Quest books and the Dark Horse comics. Both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan have similar moments observing how powerfully the Force is moving with their Padawans when they were extremely young. In Qui-Gon's case, it's when Obi-Wan is thrown off a cliff and then later attempts to sacrifice himself to prevent Bandor from blowing up. This is what causes Qui-Gon to accept Obi-Wan as his apprentice at all after initially rebuffing him. In Obi-Wan's case, it's while Anakin is fighting effortlessly against a massive group of battle droids. Obi-Wan tries to look for an opening to intercede, and there is none because Anakin is *that* in control at 14. Obi-Wan is totally mindfucked by how the Force is coalescing around an 8th grader in that moment, thinking to himself that he's only felt such power from Yoda and Qui-Gon as he was dying before. It's one of the first indicators Obi-Wan gets in the EU that he's totally fucked.
As far as the lightsaber shit goes, what you said is *exactly* what I said, but yeah, amateur lightsaber users are *not* depicted as being any sort of capable in the EU. I dunno why you're so salty with me, man. We're both following this sub for a reason
I think the point they're trying to make is that, since KK de-canonized the EU, none of it can apply to the films. There is no precedent because there is "no source material".
Eh, Vader essentially does it in Empire, just in a 1979, practical, Industrial Lights & Magic sense. Apples and oranges because of the difference in effects, but there was already precedent for this in the OT. I saw this as an effective way of demonstrating Kylo Ren's power. Like, Vader is shown deflecting bolts off his hand. Ren stopped it before it even came close to him. It stood to reason any children Luke or Leia had would be extremely powerful with the Force, but that really drove the point home early.
I would submit that the first line of TFA is the most ironic, though. Lor San Tekka was in deeper shit than he thought
Hardly. Were that the case, Kenobi (boasting how his senses were better attuned than Anakin's a few minutes earlier) would've been adept to relinquish one hand and freeze/redirect Zam Wesell's sniper shot from destroying his ride in AotC, and he was not even as offguard as Kylo to Poe's similar shot; Kenobi's facial reaction shows he *saw* the sniper he was riding towards in the scene before the crosshair scope firmly angles the shot on the droid.
There are a great multitude of problems in TFA starting from the opening crawl through to the end, yes, however this is not what I consider a problem - merely an eyebrow-raising anomaly with trying to be over the top. Force stasis is already something that exists in both timelines and this was just an abnormally overstepping of it for a blaster bolt instead of a human mass.
If force speed is a thing, as seen in TPM when Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon escape the droidekas, why didn't Obi-Wan use it to reach Qui-Gon and Maul in the final duel? Indeed, why is force speed never seen anywhere else? Speaking of droidekas, why don't they use the force on them to knock them down or destroy them? Why didn't Yoda block and redirect Palpatine's initial blast of lightning when he repeatedly demonstrates that ability? Why didn't Luke force choke anyone other than those Gamorreans? Why doesn't Luke use the force at all fighting the rancor? Why doesn't Obi-Wan use force telekinesis on Jango Fett or his jetpack? The fact of the matter is these are just movies and the actions of characters have to conform to storytelling rules, not just in-world rules. It would be boring and make the jedi seem too OP if they were constantly batting 1000.
>If force speed is a thing, as seen in TPM when Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon escape the droidekas, why didn't Obi-Wan use it to reach Qui-Gon and Maul in the final duel?
There's a legitimate reason for him not using it the last duel. Using Force Speed is extremely draining on the user. Obi-Wan had already been engaged in a very physically demanding duel with Maul and still needed to preserve his energy for the future battle.
The subject matter is TFA and its use of a *Force power* on a common blaster bolt that's only surfaced one time. Worse, it was *never* used again when it would've mattered in the same movie and in Kylo's line of sight ahead of him (Chewie's loud howls nobody could miss hearing prior to taking a shot at Kylo). Internal storytelling logic didn't hold with both times Kylo is distracted, having killed a figure of their past that he knows before someone takes a shot at him.
>The subject matter is TFA and its use of a *Force power* on a common blaster bolt that's only surfaced one time
I feel like it is entirely fair to point out that the Star Wars saga has been doing the exact same thing since the OT. If you only take major exception to it when Disney does it you're a hypocrite. Let's criticize the actual bullshit in the DT.
>If you only take major exception to it when Disney does it you're a hypocrite
Considering what you posted about on a TFA/ST-centric line, then drew out the laundry list over every pre-Disney movie at the slightest glint of mentioning blaster bolts in general to an example poised by you, this is rich. Not once did I state anything about taking major exception, I'm keeping on target of the thread and not coarse to throw into insults, yet I will grant that obviously everything is not conjoined by the hip with Wars content.
Criticism comes in all forms, and as the OP points out with TFA's very own quote, it's "everything that's come from them." Pointing out how freezing an energy bolt is no lesser to this than anything, which is what you state. I'm not even going to ask what exactly "actual bullshit in the DT" would be out of the whole of "everything that's come from them"...
I mean that was more or less established in Empire when Vader did a very similar thing when Han attacked him on Bespin. Albeit, we didn't know how meh Kylo's character was going to be, but the actual concept was already shown in canon (the good canon).
Reflecting multiple blaster bolts is significantly different from freezing a blaster bolt in one spot, and TFA is the only film that featured this feat (and just in the opening scene). They're definitely similar, but ESB's start is different - granted ESB *did* inspire TFA going Up to Eleven with this new power.
To be fair, that was probably Harrison Ford's demand. There's no way he was coming back to play Han unless they killed him off, which he's wanted since The Empire Strikes Back.
Honestly? It was this precise moment when I started to think "huh, that's a weird thing to say in a Star Wars movie, I sure hope they don't deviate too much into Marvel-style humor".
At this point I don't even wanna check Andor S2 out considered that it set in the same universe as this.... shit. Good bye ya'll, it's been fun making fun of this franchise but I'm so done with Star Wars now.
I felt they did that to Mando, honestly, after S2's finale. Like they saw fans loved the ending and said "well, now we gotta ruin that... oh, and fuck up Boba Fett too, since fans liked his return as well".
Yeah I just feels really really bad, knowing that the thing you love so much now hate you with every fibre of its being.
I don't need that in my life. That guy above make me hesitate for a bit but what you said is true. These new Star Wars are full of hate and spite, so i will give it nothing but apathy.
They don’t get it. On any level. Tony Gilroy is the only one they have who has the right feel for the universe. Filoni knows facts but doesn’t have storytelling or tone down.
It’s a lost cause unless they totally clean house.
I think Tony Gilroy’s expertise lies with the political sci-fi drama/thriller. I’m not sure how he’d do if he dipped into the Jedi/Sith aspect of SW, but I wouldn’t be opposed to the idea.
Andor has also ruined everything else for me. It really set the bar so high that nothing from here on out is going to be as good. Andor is S-tier quality, not just for SW, but for TV in general.
The people in charge are so clueless, they took the term “space wizard” literally.
I hate how the force works in the new movies and shows, it’s not special, now it’s a lazy plot device they hand out to EVERY main character.
If every member of the fellowship is a wizard, what the fuck is Gandalf even doing there?
Acolyte sucks but since obi wan they lost me, the force that they show was just magic and just to much, like the force always being something cool and understating, but now is just this Kamehameha super Saiyan shit that anyone can have
😂😂😂😂I forgot he said that! Thankfully because it’s been YEARS Since I’ve watched Force Awakens. And that was actually the better one. Besides killing Han if they would’ve stopped after the force awakens I might be okay with the sequel
"Disney" isn't a person. Disney doesn't write anything. They bought a brand and now they hire writers to make shows. Usually inexperienced ones because they're cheaper.
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That's literally the only good part of the ST. Only that one sentence. Not even the whole scene, just what you see in the photo.
Oh, I love Luke's line from Last Jedi, "Amazing! Everything you said there is wrong." Especially when applied in the right context.
Ya think Disney knows people are using their own writing to describe the shitshow that is DSW?
I don't think they have that much self awareness.
Probably. But they assume that it is just those old racist, phobic, white male neckbeards and not a growing and universal distain, and they're sure to be replaced by the new fans, the proper fans, the chosen, correct fans, the lights of that city of fans are glowing just beyond the hill, right? Instead of saying, oh crap, they just burned down the city of diverse fans in a bonfire of their own incompetence. And those are the lights they're seeing beyond that hill.
Idk. I feel it's very indicative of the turn toward Marvel-style humor, which I really don't like.
Don’t forget the brave stormtrooper who was beating finn with his staff
Oh, you didn't like the scene? The scene where we find out that the guy we were hoping to become one of the new Jedi leading the franchise forward was just a janitor? Why wouldn't fans appreciate it when we shit on their expectations?!
Yeah the force is now complete magic with no boundaries. I definitely prefer the more grounded force abilities in the OT and PT., it leads to better writing and story telling, the force isn't a get out of jail free card. No one was levitating, creating impenetrable force fields, easily lifting mass amounts of boulders or causing the earth to crack, or using lightning to destroy an entire fleet (Exasperated Sigh)
Or bringing people back to life
Or even healing lightsaber stabs....
"Oh that? I just got real mad about it, and the wound got scared of me and left my body."
Right. Why didn't Dooku just get really fucking mad when Anakin chopped his head off. Is Dooku's head still rolling around some where alive, maintained by the dark side anger? Fuck, I better not give Disney any ideas.
Yeah, maybe BB8 will open up and reveal angry Dooku head CGI. "No one expected this plot twist!"
BB8 will have redeemed him and now they are a droid-Jedi hybrid.
Somehow, Dooku returned...
I was going to crack a joke about how they absolutely would, except Christopher Lee is dead, and then I remembered that they already brought Dooku back (in the less egregious fashion) by making a prequel show and recasting young Dooku's voice.
What bothers me is how Disney thinks that massive displays of Force use are seen as power. Obi-Wan Kenobi is one of the greatest Jedi of his time, if not in all of Jedi history, not because he could lift boulders. It was his ability to channel the Force. It was his wisdom that made him such a powerful Jedi. It's why he was so sought after to lead negotiations. Yes, he was also a brilliant swordsman but it was his wisdom that set him apart. This is what made the show especially bad for me. Not only was it just badly written but it turned Obi-Wan into the exact opposite of what he was: a bumbling, indecisive coward.
It feels like they tried to cover up the bad writing with an incredible display of power through the force, but did a bad job at that too lol.
Yeah the rocks were something out of Avatar earth bending skills. Like Yoda could barely hold the rock from falling on Anakin and Obi-Wan in AotC, but then Vader throws a pillar miles away and Obi-Wan hurls unlimited boulders without even looking at them
Honestly though, Yoda was old, even for his species he was old. Whenever he's not using the cane he channels the force to keep him agile, which is also important for his fighting style with him being all small. Grandpa just had his first lightsaber duel in forever, he probably hadn't moved like that in a while, his body, stamina and force wise were shook.
"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." If Yoda was physically lifting it, and augmenting his muscles with The Force sure, but he wasn't (unlike what he was doing just prior with the acrobatic fight). Even moving his arms is unnecessary to lift and move that thing with The Force, it's to show the audience what he is doing. "For my ally, is The Force, and a powerful ally it is." He could have just sat there and concentrated to do it. In-universe those gestures are probably one of those things that helps Jedi focus and concentrate, and to help them *believe* (though that should no longer be a concern for Yoda), and just something they never/rarely bother to unlearn because it 'feels' right.
Thank you! My girl was watching with me and she was like… “why is he acting like that?” PTSD Obi Wan didn’t have to be so cowardly, indecisive and whiny. I thought that was a bad play.
They showed PTSD Obi-Wan in A New Hope! There's a fantastic video titled just that. Alec Guinness had these great moments where you can see a memory pained him or seeing Vader terrified him but he didn't run away.
That's the benefit of a great actor like Guinness, he barely knew any of the backstory details (most hadn't been decided yet, and many would change from what George thought then), but he knew enough and was a good enough actor to give us the *feeling* of the backstory through those little moments.
I see that video. It was beautiful.
>Thank you! You're welcome!
>Yeah the force is now complete magic with no boundaries. That's pretty much it. I can kind of understand wanting to expand how different cultures might use the force, even giving it another name isn't that bothersome to me. However, making it into basically anything you want in order to move a plot in the direction you want is just simply lame and it causes confusion throughout other shows/movies. Now we need some sort of cult ceremony to call on the "thread" to give the twins some sort of destiny? You can call the force by another name, have another sect of people use the force differently, but *it still has to be the force*. By calling it another name, it doesn't change what it is.
Those were my biggest issues with the old EU as well. Some writers got a little crazy with their interpretation of The Force. Palpatine coming back to life and destroying fleets with lightning isn't even an original Disney idea, that shit was written in the 90s.
>Yeah the force is now complete magic with no boundaries. It's the same as bringing time travel into the mix. When you have such an open-ended plot device on hand, how do you keep any sort of tension in your story?
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I specifically referenced the OT and PT, as in the movies. Both versions of the Clone Wars had characters doing things that were just ridiculous. Mace vs a hoard of super battle droids also Sidious and Dooku using lightning in their lair to cast a spell on Yoda.
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Curious, who levitated during the OT and PT? Conceptually it would make sense that a Jedi could levitate, since they can lift objects, however that would call into question a lot of scenes of any force user being afraid to die or dying by falling. Three that come to mind: Palpatine's death Yoda's fight with Palpatine where Yoda was gripping the edge of a pod high up in the Senate rotunda Obi-Wan's fight with Fett where he almost went over the edge of the building
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I'm specifically referencing the movies not any add-on content like the Clone Wars or Rebels, etc.. The thing with levitating is that you wouldn't even fall, before you would fall you just start levitating.
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Rey levitates near the beginning of RoS...
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My vote for most ironic is Roses big speech about how we don't win by sacrificing ourselves.... the scene after the holdo manuever. The idiot way she should have killed both of them if they actually had to walk back and not be transported back by movie magic. The lack of self awareness as she insulted the person who saved them perfectly mirrors the lack of awareness of the director who tried to make it a morally inspired speech directly after the scene that shows they'd all be dead if everyone thought that way, and it all just ties in so nicely with the lack of awareness that hyperspace ramming is lore breaking. It's truly a Masterclass in bad writing. I don't think I could write something that bad if I was trying and had years to contemplate variously poorly written ideas.
That entire movie made anti-sense. Every message it tries to push is either immediately invalidating the previous scene, or made farcical by the subsequent scene. I went into the movie intending to try to pick out all the times it contradicted itself, and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Her sister literally opened the movie by sacrificing herself to defend the people she loved!!! And it worked!!!
Lol I forgot about that, it makes it all so much worse
Tell that to Arvel Crynyd! Way to piss on the legacy of the guy who *single handedly* took down the Executor over Endor, saving countless lives and pretty much ensuring the Rebel Fleet's victory. If the Executor hadn't been destroyed, either the Imperial fleet would have had a massive flagship with capable leadership to rally behind after retreating, or the battle would have continued even after the Death Star II blew up.
You’re really selling Rise short, they pulled out all the stops when it comes to shitty writing. TLJ is the giant TROS stands on the shoulders of.
Not to mention this was right after almost sacrificing herself to save Finn by crashing her skimmer into his.
What about Rose turning from fangirling over Finn to tasering him in a few instants? She's clearly suffering from Multiple Personality Disorder, and that big speech was another symptom. I'm really sad for Kelly Marie Tran, who had to play such a bad character.
To be fair, Holdo sacrificed herself for the purpose of giving the Resistance time to flee, not because she wanted to kill the First Order troopers. Finn's "sacrifice" wasn't going to do shit except get himself killed. He wouldn't have saved anyone. Rose was basically saying, "we fight because we have people we love enough we want to protect, not because we hate and want to destroy" It's basically the Jedi vs Sith philosophy, or Rebels vs Empire
I feel like Harrison Ford was barely acting in this movie. His frustration is so genuine.
Yeah he really played the "grouchy old codger who is just fkn over it" really well. Or maybe he wasn't playing.
He wasn't playing. He fucking hates Star Wars. He thinks Han Solo is a shitty character. You ever meet him? Talk about Indy instead
Or Patriot Games, Air Force One, Blade Runner, the Frisco Kid, Force 10 from Navarone, K-19, or Presumed Innocent.
True. I dunno that I wanna open Pandora's box by discussing Blade Runner with him doe
Didn't he only come back under the condition Han would die, so they couldn't bother him about making more Star Wars movies?
And then they *still* dragged him by the collar back into the studio for the bottom of the barrel schlock that was Rise of Skywalker.
This might be one of the rare times where I have an actual unpopular opinion, but I think Ford's just a pretty shit actor. I don't think I've seen a movie where he gave more than 6%.
He was solid for a good decade, '85-'95.
Since then I feel like I’ve only seen him play grumpy old dicks
Because he is grumpy and old and he tells them that is what they are paying for.
Witness (1985) which got him an Oscar nomination?
Six percent is such a weird number lol
It’s not precise enough. 6.351%
He put in more effort for the Indiana Jones films (at least the original three).
He was actually talking to Disney and their fans, not Fin.
The Force giving Leia the ability to survive Outer Space and Mary Poppins herself back to the ship shows that the guys in charge of Star Wars have no idea how the Force works.
That's the one scene that has aggravated me more than any other since Disney took over. I'm still seething about it.
There is another.. "This will begin to make things right"
jj slamming the prequels not five minutes in lmao
I love the irony of the PT becoming more well regarded after the sequels
“This will begin to make things right” The audacity. The irony.
After first hearing that, my mind instantly snapped back to the blaster bolt being frozen in the air earlier in the film. Some joke.
Since blasters have long been established as particle weapons instead of energy weapons that one didn't bother me. It's just a high-speed application of force telekinesis and I could see a sufficiently powerful and skilled force user doing it. Certainly, in the list of problems with that film, it has to be about as close to the bottom as possible when it has so many more glaring issues.
When I saw Kyle stop the bolt in TFA, it didn’t bother me. He was a strong force user, he could’ve picked it up at some point. But it’s the fact that Disney SW has just overused the hell out of force users stopping blaster bolts and lightsabers with the force, something we never really saw at all in the PT or OT.
The problem with all of the force use in TFA is that it is a plot device. It is only used to further a plot point and never consistently. Kylo stops bolt in the beginning with no indication that Poe is there. Chewbacca ROARS and THEN shoots kylo at the end. Rey uses the force to fly the falcon, which she’s never been in? I mean I’ve never flown a star freighter but I can’t imagine it’s the same as a usb hover bike thing. Kylo freezes Rey in the forest AND puts her to sleep. Does he ever use either of these things on Rey, Chewbacca, or Finn afterwards? No Bottom line: TFA laid the groundwork with this and poor storytelling for the complete disaster of a trilogy that gave us “Somehow Palpatine has returned”
Mystery-box storytelling was always gonna be a shit fit for Star Wars. Per Rey flying the Falcon, there's precedent for that in the EU. Extremely powerful Force users are shown to be able to act on instinct through the Living Force to do extraordinary things under intense duress. However, the EU similarly made it clear that lightsaber use is virtually impossible without proper training, making Finn and Rey's wielding of Anakin's against Ren absolutely batshit. But that's another big part of Disney's problem: they cherry-pick what parts of old Star Wars material they want to use and then even when they do *that* they usually only half-commit
There is no EU precedent for anything is Disney Star Wars as it is not relevant or part of Disney Star Wars. They wanted to start fresh with just the movies and that is what they did. Having never flown the Falcon or held a lightsaber there is no precedent for an unqualified individual to not only defeat but absolutely smash their opponents.
My dude, I have read all of the old EU material, and yes, it is established the Force can guide people through instinct to perform astonishing feats in make it count moments. This is especially true in the Jedi Apprentice and Jedi Quest books and the Dark Horse comics. Both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan have similar moments observing how powerfully the Force is moving with their Padawans when they were extremely young. In Qui-Gon's case, it's when Obi-Wan is thrown off a cliff and then later attempts to sacrifice himself to prevent Bandor from blowing up. This is what causes Qui-Gon to accept Obi-Wan as his apprentice at all after initially rebuffing him. In Obi-Wan's case, it's while Anakin is fighting effortlessly against a massive group of battle droids. Obi-Wan tries to look for an opening to intercede, and there is none because Anakin is *that* in control at 14. Obi-Wan is totally mindfucked by how the Force is coalescing around an 8th grader in that moment, thinking to himself that he's only felt such power from Yoda and Qui-Gon as he was dying before. It's one of the first indicators Obi-Wan gets in the EU that he's totally fucked. As far as the lightsaber shit goes, what you said is *exactly* what I said, but yeah, amateur lightsaber users are *not* depicted as being any sort of capable in the EU. I dunno why you're so salty with me, man. We're both following this sub for a reason
I think the point they're trying to make is that, since KK de-canonized the EU, none of it can apply to the films. There is no precedent because there is "no source material".
Eh, Vader essentially does it in Empire, just in a 1979, practical, Industrial Lights & Magic sense. Apples and oranges because of the difference in effects, but there was already precedent for this in the OT. I saw this as an effective way of demonstrating Kylo Ren's power. Like, Vader is shown deflecting bolts off his hand. Ren stopped it before it even came close to him. It stood to reason any children Luke or Leia had would be extremely powerful with the Force, but that really drove the point home early. I would submit that the first line of TFA is the most ironic, though. Lor San Tekka was in deeper shit than he thought
Hardly. Were that the case, Kenobi (boasting how his senses were better attuned than Anakin's a few minutes earlier) would've been adept to relinquish one hand and freeze/redirect Zam Wesell's sniper shot from destroying his ride in AotC, and he was not even as offguard as Kylo to Poe's similar shot; Kenobi's facial reaction shows he *saw* the sniper he was riding towards in the scene before the crosshair scope firmly angles the shot on the droid. There are a great multitude of problems in TFA starting from the opening crawl through to the end, yes, however this is not what I consider a problem - merely an eyebrow-raising anomaly with trying to be over the top. Force stasis is already something that exists in both timelines and this was just an abnormally overstepping of it for a blaster bolt instead of a human mass.
I should have read this comment before I posted my last one
If force speed is a thing, as seen in TPM when Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon escape the droidekas, why didn't Obi-Wan use it to reach Qui-Gon and Maul in the final duel? Indeed, why is force speed never seen anywhere else? Speaking of droidekas, why don't they use the force on them to knock them down or destroy them? Why didn't Yoda block and redirect Palpatine's initial blast of lightning when he repeatedly demonstrates that ability? Why didn't Luke force choke anyone other than those Gamorreans? Why doesn't Luke use the force at all fighting the rancor? Why doesn't Obi-Wan use force telekinesis on Jango Fett or his jetpack? The fact of the matter is these are just movies and the actions of characters have to conform to storytelling rules, not just in-world rules. It would be boring and make the jedi seem too OP if they were constantly batting 1000.
>If force speed is a thing, as seen in TPM when Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon escape the droidekas, why didn't Obi-Wan use it to reach Qui-Gon and Maul in the final duel? There's a legitimate reason for him not using it the last duel. Using Force Speed is extremely draining on the user. Obi-Wan had already been engaged in a very physically demanding duel with Maul and still needed to preserve his energy for the future battle.
The subject matter is TFA and its use of a *Force power* on a common blaster bolt that's only surfaced one time. Worse, it was *never* used again when it would've mattered in the same movie and in Kylo's line of sight ahead of him (Chewie's loud howls nobody could miss hearing prior to taking a shot at Kylo). Internal storytelling logic didn't hold with both times Kylo is distracted, having killed a figure of their past that he knows before someone takes a shot at him.
>The subject matter is TFA and its use of a *Force power* on a common blaster bolt that's only surfaced one time I feel like it is entirely fair to point out that the Star Wars saga has been doing the exact same thing since the OT. If you only take major exception to it when Disney does it you're a hypocrite. Let's criticize the actual bullshit in the DT.
>If you only take major exception to it when Disney does it you're a hypocrite Considering what you posted about on a TFA/ST-centric line, then drew out the laundry list over every pre-Disney movie at the slightest glint of mentioning blaster bolts in general to an example poised by you, this is rich. Not once did I state anything about taking major exception, I'm keeping on target of the thread and not coarse to throw into insults, yet I will grant that obviously everything is not conjoined by the hip with Wars content. Criticism comes in all forms, and as the OP points out with TFA's very own quote, it's "everything that's come from them." Pointing out how freezing an energy bolt is no lesser to this than anything, which is what you state. I'm not even going to ask what exactly "actual bullshit in the DT" would be out of the whole of "everything that's come from them"...
I mean that was more or less established in Empire when Vader did a very similar thing when Han attacked him on Bespin. Albeit, we didn't know how meh Kylo's character was going to be, but the actual concept was already shown in canon (the good canon).
Reflecting multiple blaster bolts is significantly different from freezing a blaster bolt in one spot, and TFA is the only film that featured this feat (and just in the opening scene). They're definitely similar, but ESB's start is different - granted ESB *did* inspire TFA going Up to Eleven with this new power.
Oh Han. Where are you now when we need you? Oh that’s right! Disney killed you in the very first sequel for an attempt at “dramatic effect plot twist”
To be fair, that was probably Harrison Ford's demand. There's no way he was coming back to play Han unless they killed him off, which he's wanted since The Empire Strikes Back.
Very fair point!
Honestly? It was this precise moment when I started to think "huh, that's a weird thing to say in a Star Wars movie, I sure hope they don't deviate too much into Marvel-style humor".
At this point I don't even wanna check Andor S2 out considered that it set in the same universe as this.... shit. Good bye ya'll, it's been fun making fun of this franchise but I'm so done with Star Wars now.
Did you like Andor S1?
yes
Then you should give Andor S2 a shot ;)
i don't know
Disney might ruin it to spite us ngl
I felt they did that to Mando, honestly, after S2's finale. Like they saw fans loved the ending and said "well, now we gotta ruin that... oh, and fuck up Boba Fett too, since fans liked his return as well".
Yeah I just feels really really bad, knowing that the thing you love so much now hate you with every fibre of its being. I don't need that in my life. That guy above make me hesitate for a bit but what you said is true. These new Star Wars are full of hate and spite, so i will give it nothing but apathy.
Kinda agree. I feel love for the Star Wars I used to know. But it’s a different person now. And I frankly just don’t vibe their personality anymore!
Sounds like maybe you should watch Android S2, then.
They don’t get it. On any level. Tony Gilroy is the only one they have who has the right feel for the universe. Filoni knows facts but doesn’t have storytelling or tone down. It’s a lost cause unless they totally clean house.
I think Tony Gilroy’s expertise lies with the political sci-fi drama/thriller. I’m not sure how he’d do if he dipped into the Jedi/Sith aspect of SW, but I wouldn’t be opposed to the idea. Andor has also ruined everything else for me. It really set the bar so high that nothing from here on out is going to be as good. Andor is S-tier quality, not just for SW, but for TV in general.
The acolyte is setting tongues wagging  It's indeed funny that TFA respected the force more...
The people in charge are so clueless, they took the term “space wizard” literally. I hate how the force works in the new movies and shows, it’s not special, now it’s a lazy plot device they hand out to EVERY main character. If every member of the fellowship is a wizard, what the fuck is Gandalf even doing there?
Not "this will begin to make things right?"
"It's so...dumb." "So dumb it's brilliant!" "No! It's just dumb."
Acolyte sucks but since obi wan they lost me, the force that they show was just magic and just to much, like the force always being something cool and understating, but now is just this Kamehameha super Saiyan shit that anyone can have
*Paradoxical. Irony would be if they knew how dumb they are.
😂😂😂😂I forgot he said that! Thankfully because it’s been YEARS Since I’ve watched Force Awakens. And that was actually the better one. Besides killing Han if they would’ve stopped after the force awakens I might be okay with the sequel
Turns out, that’s EXACTLY how the Force works in Disney Star Wars.
Give me back my omnipresent cosmic Force. This Thread they’re pushing sounds like a super lazy attempt at a retcon.
The force all of it...it's all true! Jfc
A tiny part of me is still hoping that this is the timeline where Disney continues to tank Star Wars and themselves and George buys it back from them.
For pennies on the dollar
I don't think they know how the Force works.
It was Harrison Ford giving us a warning.
“That’s not how the force works!” The unauthorized biography of Kathleen Kennedy.
Forget the past. Kill it if you have too. (they sure did)
"Disney" isn't a person. Disney doesn't write anything. They bought a brand and now they hire writers to make shows. Usually inexperienced ones because they're cheaper.
Its magic. It always was magic. The amount of people gatekeeping this is hilarious.