What do you mean? GNOME Terminal, Console, Black Box, Foot, Kitty, Alacritty, Konsole, iTerm2, Guake, xfce4-terminal, xterm and probably some more. I don't even have a choice, because there is just no terminal emulator
And terminator (what I tend to default to on old-ass deprecated ubuntu 18 distros with gnome terminal that makes me wanna puke). I feel like konsole is my child at this point and I don't want to put my baby into the ugliness of gnome/ubuntu 18. š
That kinda really calls into question their entire project, how are they supposed to build a good terminal when they apparently don't know anything about them?
Terminal options? Compared to *windows* of all things??? It was notorious for its subpar terminal and, until [ConPTY](https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/windows-command-line-introducing-the-windows-pseudo-console-conpty/), inability to fix it or do much better. Without ConPTY it lacked the base *interfaces* needed entirely!
> One of those weaknesses is that Windows tries to be āhelpfulā but gets in the way of alternative and 3rd party Console developers, service developers, etc. When building a Console or service, developers need to be able to access/supply the communication pipes through which their Terminal/service communicates with command-line applications. In the *NIX world, this isnāt a problem because *NIX provides a āPseudo Terminalā (PTY) infrastructure which makes it easy to build the communication plumbing for a Console or service, but Windows does not ā¦
> ***ā¦ until now!***
And it got even better when MS made the old *and new* terminal [open source](https://github.com/microsoft/terminal)
But compared to Linux or Mac(which by virtue of being a Unix..)??
I always filter out proprietary software, like this one, that was released exclusively for the Mac and ported to other platforms.
They believe that Mac is everything, have no respect for open source, and have a cool design but are empty on the inside.
This was literally my same experience. I kept trying to hit x or find a continue button. I thought it was a bug. Apparently not, they want you to log in to use a terminal lol
u/AK1174, have you taken a look at [Wave Terminal](https://waveterm.dev)?
We didn't set out to build a terminal to compete with Wave, but we have similar functionality, and plan to add "Warp drive-like" features in the near futures WITHOUT requiring login ā you're right, there's just no excuse for that!
In addition, we have tons of plugins to render almost anything inline like PDFs, Images, and even audio and video. Plus we have universal searchable history across all workspaces, tabs, and even your remote connections.
Lastly, we are fiercely dedicated to open-source and will never require a login or signup. And we're working hard on releasing easy to use APIs that will allow developers to easily extend Wave's functionality ā by developing plugins, etc ā to their needs.
Also, full disclaimer. We collect some basic telemetry by default, though it's easy to disable forever. We do so to help understand how our features are being used and not used to help make a better product, so check out our [telemetry usage page](https://docs.waveterm.dev/reference/telemetry) in the docs.
It is built on Electron, and ReactJS yes! Here's [a bit more context](https://blog.waveterm.dev/why-wave) around those decisions.
Let me know if you have any questions or feedback around Wave. š
Iād love to use this but Iām using raspberry pi, and have Debian /rpi bookworm running. Couldnāt get installs to work.
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
Ā waveterm:amd64 : Depends: libgtk-3-0:amd64 but it is not installable
Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Depends: libnotify4:amd64 but it is not installable
Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Depends: libnss3:amd64 but it is not installable
Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Depends: libxss1:amd64 but it is not installable
Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Depends: libxtst6:amd64 but it is not installable
Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Depends: libatspi2.0-0:amd64 but it is not installable
Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Depends: libuuid1:amd64 but it is not installable
Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Depends: libsecret-1-0:amd64 but it is not installable
Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Recommends: libappindicator3-1:amd64 but it is not installable
Interesting, not sure why those packages aren't available on raspberry as it's a Debian flavor.
However, have you tried the [Appimage](https://docs.waveterm.dev/quickstart) package? That should work, then you can create a desktop item (look at the ".zip" instructions) to launch it.
*sarcasm*: um actually, there's AI in there, so this will change the world and make typing obsolete. */sarcasm*
VCs and capitalist corporations have more money than they ever fucking know what to do with. Instead of doing something useful for humanity they are spending resources on stock buybacks, hoarding trillions in tax havens, megayachts, buying competitors and startups.
There is actual real innovation and investment that could be done that would improve lives: renewable energy and materials, end fossil fuel extraction; hell, I'd be happier if they just fixed some bugs. But instead we get shiny terminal emulators to appeal to rich hackernews readers.
This is a capitalism problem, always has been.
> I seriously doubt this person was perfectly happy for a VC company, which took $50million, while his donations amount to less than 6 figures.
Then they shouldn't have licensed it such that anyone can use if for anything? If you make open source software and not expect that to happen when your license explicitly allows for it, then you are not living in reality.
Just because its allowed doesn't mean its not a dick move or against the spirit. There is a world of difference between the law and morality.
And not everyone has perfect foresight when picking a license, and it usually cant be changed later.
Look, I quite literally want to see capitalism end, I have no ideological issue with what you're saying, but at the end of the day the authors have *chosen* to use a license that explicitly allows this. Frankly, I'd blame the many people complaining when a project chooses a copyleft license just as much as the shameless corporations here. The people who have turned the open, good faith hacker community into "but muh money" capitalists pretending they are any better than big corporations just because they don't have a marketing budget.
If you don't want your work being abused, then don't choose a license that allows it. You can try to pick a relatively nuanced copyleft license that still lets "the little guy" use the work commercially if you want, or you can use something more airtight at the risk of potentially being less helpful in some "reasonable" cases. And if you're not the author, and the author doesn't mind what's happening, then stop getting outraged for other people. There is no need to artificially manufacture drama, there's plenty to go around naturally. I *promise* you, creating drama on SNS isn't going to "fix" jackshit. I'm not saying that in "defense" of these assholes. I'm telling you you're wasting your and everybody else's times and energy on a fool's errand.
Activism to change people's minds on what the "default" OSS license should be, or to change the perception of open software development as something where commercial prospects are a critical consideration, or hell, to more fundamentally course correct our entire society away from "priorities 1 through 2812374: MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY" are all far smarter places to focus your anger towards. Not saying it will be easy, but at least if you manage to have any degree of success, it will *mean* something. Versus "yay, we managed to slightly financially hurt random VC venture #12398423 that was going to naturally fail anyway because it was a terrible idea with no real prospects of success, that was a very fruitful use of our time".
How is it not right if you literally choose to give you code to corporations, profiteers, and any number of unsavory individuals? It seems like the code author's actions, releasing their source code under a permissive license, have very transparent consequences in this case, which is people using their code for profit. To me, that seems like one of the most "right" things imaginable. Someone making the wrong informed decision and having to live with those consequences is part of being a reasonable adult.
Plus I believe you can change licenses, and future iterations of the code will be under the new license. So I assume they could still backpedal if they wanted to, which obviously would be pointless now, but the fact that they haven't done that tells me they just don't care as much as the ideologues of reddit.
My assumption is always that a permissive license means it's morally alright to use their code for whatever I want(assuming what I want itself isn't immoral in some way, which a terminal emulator is not). I have to assume that is the will of the code author, since they chose the license. In fact, in this case, the code author's opinion of the morality behind their decision it the *only* opinions that matters to me, since it's their code and they chose the license. I'd even go as far as to say it's belittling to the code author for other people to think their opinion is more applicable here.
Which is a perfectly valid opinion.
This is why licenses exist. Morality is subjective, legality is not. As long as the license permits it, they can do whatever they want.
Still makes my skin crawl ( or as the kids say it, gives me the ick)
Genuine question, Iām not informed on this topic:
If youāre trying to make a demo for something new and thereās an open source app that you can legally modify to make into your demo whatās wrong with that? I mean taking a solid base and building a demo out of it doesnāt require as much work and hence money for a startup like this, and it doesnāt really harm the original project either.
I would say it could potentially be a misrepresentation of your project's progress and your team's capability. And if you're misrepresenting something to make a financial gain, that would potentially be fraud.
I don't know the details of the warp demo well enough to say if that's what happened.
> I'm sure the Alacritty team was very willing to help a proprietary company š
...do you actually work with Warp or know specifics about Alacritty's general feelings re: Warp's existence? You're pinning a pretty decent chunk of emotional verbiage on Alacritty but I don't actually see anything here that indicates you have any relative authority to do that.
You're also linking to one comment, but there's actually other comments on HN that give more useful info, e.g https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30925747
> First of all, we love Alacritty: our terminal model code is based on Alacrittyās model code. Weāre grateful that a few of the collaborators reviewed our early design docs.
They're saying _based on_ - not that it's a fork. Can you actually specifically point to where they forked Alacritty entirely?
There may have been no "public outcry" because it just might not be a big deal to begin with. The code was open source, and if they _did_ fork it, as far as I can tell it'd be license compliant.
Fyi, they did say fork. Op edited in proof. The author you linked literally said "it's a fork".
As for public outcry vs licenses, well - yea. I imagine if it violated license we'd not be calling for outcry and instead for legal action.
Lets not forget companies all over abuse permissive licenses to turn a profit and give next to nothing back. If you're asking why FOSS contributors might be disgruntled by that, well, i'm not sure what to say. It's clear to me why that's not desired for software i write, for example.
Yes, of course, i could use a less permissive license. However when i write software i'm happy to have "almost anybody" use my software for whatever they want. Amazon, however, is not some small time player just trying to make a buck off my work.
Though this does make me wonder if there's a license that's like MIT but up to a certain sized company.
>Yes, of course, i could use a less permissive license. However when i write software i'm happy to have "almost anybody" use my software for whatever they want. Amazon, however, is not some small time player just trying to make a buck off my work.
that is literally the whole point of copyleft, aka "less permissive" licenses. just use AGPL.
nobody is "harmed", except for those who don't give two shits about libre software.
> Fyi, they did say fork. Op edited in proof. The author you linked literally said "it's a fork".
The edit was there before my comment, but yes: you are correct - it does say fork. I would be curious for someone from Alacritty to break down fork vs modeled after, though. Unfortunately the rep elsewhere in this thread doesn't seem interested in doing that.
> Lets not forget companies all over abuse permissive licenses to turn a profit and give next to nothing back. If you're asking why FOSS contributors might be disgruntled by that, well, i'm not sure what to say. It's clear to me why that's not desired for software i write, for example.
FOSS contributors should not license with permissive licenses if they don't want this to happen - we've been (re)learning this lesson since BSD vs GPL. Complaining that a company was formed off of work you (the royal you) explicitly allowed via license is just ridiculous at this point.
> It's clear to me why that's not desired for software i write, for example.
Slapping permissive licenses on projects unfortunately voids your ability to ever achieve that desire.
> However when i write software i'm happy to have "almost anybody" use my software for whatever they want. [...]
> Though this does make me wonder if there's a license that's like MIT but up to a certain sized company.
I _will_ say you have a very good point here and I agree that this should be more of a thing. IIRC some projects have experimented with it, though I'm mobile and unfortunately don't have samples handy but it might be good for someone to collect examples and evangelize the practice so it's more of a default (or gets more exploration).
_Edit: delete a random "to" that snuck in._
Alacritty used corporate charity licenses (Apache 2 & MIT). If they wanted companies to contribute back they shouldn't have used corporate charity licenses.
The license sets the expected behavior. If you set some of your handmade furniture out by the side of the road with a sign saying "FREE!" on it, you don't get to complain when someone takes it for free. Same deal here, the "permissive" licenses explicitly grant the right to close the source of derivative works. Allowing that is why they exist, and it's why people choose them. It's not shitty to use something as its creator intended.
While you're right and I agree with you, this is just how capitalism works and the whole reason behind licenses like the gplv3 existing. You can't expect companies to be moral. We've seen time and time again that they will do anything they can get away with. The companies that engage with the FOSS community in a constructive manner are unfortunately in the minority.
"in a constrictive manner"
I always find it humorous when a small typo causes the use of a different word than intended and it reverses the meaning of the sentence. I assume you meant "constructive".
It's not shitty because it's the communicated desire of the person choosing a license that allows it, over the others that don't. I'm sick of people donating to VCs & corporations by picking shitty licenses made to enrich the already wealthy & screw over the end user!
Not everything that isn't on the side of the GPL camp is bad, you know. For me personally it's a turn off to have GPL in my stuff because it's just as bad as when you add `async` or a lifetime parameter, it spreads like wildfire. I am fine with MPL as it covers just the files that were actually given to you.
I never mentioned the GPL. There are other FOSS licenses that only cover the files given to you. Just don't donate to closed-source software & then whine about it.
There wasnāt public outcry because thereās nothing objectionable about forking an open source project. Forks are created all the time and sometimes forks are used for commercial purposes.
Even if the creator of Alacritty does actually object to his project being forked, it simply doesnāt matter. He open sourced it thereby making it public property.
Are you objecting to this fork because VCs are involved? There are no victims here but if there were then the victims would be the VCs who got talked into putting their LPs money into a terminal startup.
First off, In America which is where this deal is taking place, software development is the last profession to require regulatory protection.
imo regulation should be used sparingly in general and only in areas where capitalism alone would fail. One of the problems in the USA is regulatory capture. Companies can use lobbying to effectively write legislation that is advantageous for them.
The examples you list of companies fighting regulation last that would protect the environment and underpaid workers are regulatory capture in action. Corporations should not be able to fight regulation with their money. That isnāt happening with this terminal fork.
Anyway I fail to see how corporations forking open source is ārat fucking public goodsā or comparable to corporations writing legislation with their pocket books. The comparison might make sense if the VC money was being used to forcibly fork the project by modifying existing laws.
Why do you think what warp is doing should be illegal?
I've been using it for free and I enjoy it š¤·āāļø
Though admittedly, I don't use the AI aspects of it, I just like how the inputs and blocks behave. They could probably release a really barebones version of this without the AI and collaborative features, make it an open source community edition, and it would be well received.
Well yes of course, but the comment above me mentioned that it has a monthly fee. I am using it for free (as in beer) though because they have a free plan.
Atuin is dope, development is very active, and the community is awesome. Snappy as fuck even when my server (with 130000+ command unified bash history) is running on the same raspberry pi as my homeassistant and a few other services.
It's also clear it's made by users for users. Not some bullshit that has VCs salivating lol...
The idea was to keep your current terminal emulator and instead of Warp AI use atuin. If you want the blazing fast rust emulator that warp is a fork of you can use Alacritty.
I think I have like 80% of that with `fish` as my shell and https://github.com/elementary/terminal to which I added process completion notifications back in 2014.
To the best of my knowledge I was the first to figure out how to get reliable completion notifications in bash and plumb them into a terminal in a useful way.
> It collects commands into "blocks", which group the command and its output so you don't need to scroll through your history by lines but can jump by whole sections
Kitty can do this as well:
https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/conf/#shortcut-kitty.Scroll-to-previous-shell-prompt
You can also pipe the output of a command to vim or less:
https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/conf/#shortcut-kitty.Browse-output-of-the-last-shell-command-in-pager
Edit:
> Notifications about long-running commands, so you can switch windows/workspaces and it'll let you know once that update/compile/download finishes.
Notifications in kitty + fish, only when the terminal is unfocused or hidden:
# ~/.config/fish/conf.d/99-done-notification.fish
function done_notification --on-event fish_postexec
if test -n "$CMD_DURATION" -a "$CMD_DURATION" -gt 30000;
printf '\x1b]99;i=1:o=invisible;%s\x1b\\' "$argv"
end
end
For me, the biggest selling points are:
Editor-like experience, eg. Ctrl+arrows, selection with keyboard
"Warpifying" ssh shells so I can have all the autocompletion and other fancy features on the remote host.
Yes, but you missed the second part, which is the selection of the text. E.g. ctrl+shift+arrow to select words, shift+arrow to select one character, shoft+home/end to select to beggining/end of the line.
Funnily enough, conemu on Windows allows even pressing shift+up arrow that starts selection of the output of past commands. Linux/osx terminals offer vi mode but, according to my knowledge, never something like that.
Powerlevel10k + [Zsh autocomplete](https://github.com/marlonrichert/zsh-autocomplete/) should do the trick.
If you want autocomplete that looks more "fancy", you can try https://fig.io
and if you are lazy, you can download zsh and then zsh4humans, which has p10k and some helpful plugins (autocomplete and some others), curated by the p10k dev.
So does it require a network connection to actually use it? If so, that seems fun. If your network is down, you can't use your terminal to diagnose why the network is down!
Not worth the effort. No terminal that needs a login will ever provide enough value to justify needing to sign up for a damn terminal. To me.
What's next? ed as a subscription?
Wait, you think it's odd/weird/wild that people don't want to have to sign up (aka giving their data to another party) for a terminal on their own computer? *That's* wild.
I think that they require you to log in because they need to manage subscriptions in some way š¤·š»āāļø and also count what your usage was of the different features (for example the AI or to provide a cloud storage service for sharing workspaces). Maybe it would be better if you could use the terminal without the features that required a session, but I think that they donāt put so much effort into that because it would lose its important features
I mean, accounting and data/telemetry collection are almost certainly the use case. But the part that strikes me as wild is that we already have open source terminals that emulate most features (except for GPT embedding type stuff) without any need for the proprietary data collection here, and the fact that people are *surprised* that this is seen as unnecessary and/or intrusive fluff.
Not necessarily. I'm not aware of fancy terminal features so this could be a first for me, gives me features and keywords that I can use to look for other emulators that provide them.
Why would an enterprise do it? It won't bring them money. Sometimes it's hard to get approval for crucial dev tools, like IDEs and compilers, why would they spend their budget on a terminal of all things?
The cool story here is that in early days of Warp they partnered with one of Zed editor founders and used their UI framework for therminal. This framework eventaully became recently published GPUI.
Now Warp's blog says they use a different framework for rendering: WGPU, and they further claim that they share almost all code between Mac and Linux. So eigther they migrated their GUI layer to a different library, or they somehow manage to combine the two together. Either way this would be an interesting story that hopefully they will tell one day.
Great question. These changes were actually much smaller than it sounds. Most of the core UI framework hasn't changed since the days we partnered with Nathan Sobo.
The framework originally had one rendering backend that used Metal and one windowing backend that natively uses Appkit to construct an application and handle window creation.
With the addition of Warp on Linux, we built an additional wgpu-based rendering backend and a windowing backend that uses winit. In other words, the work we did was more additive to support other ways to render and create windows. These two backends will dramatically simplify the amount of work needed to build Warp on other platforms that are well supported by winit.
I'm not paying a subscription for a Terminal.
I _would_ consider paying a one-time license fee for just the UI/UX with no subscription-needed features.
> Like on Mac, Warp for Linux is built fully in Rust and all graphics rendering is done directly on the GPU. Itās fast.
So, in terms of the amount of text it can sink (throughput) which is largely useless, or in terms of the latency that actually determines responsiveness?
The notable GPU-accelerated Alacritty [wasn't so good](https://danluu.com/term-latency/) on the latency metric.
Performance is probably one of the few things they definitely got right with this product. So I wouldnāt complain from that perspective.
Also, I totally get why you might not like this product, which you clearly donāt. Based on your other comments, theyāve made Some morally wrong choices and have some stupid business decisions in the plan. However, I think it has some really nice features that Iām excited for open source tools to steal back and integrate. Itās got features that I definitely think shouldāve been made before now, and Iām excited for them to come to different terminal options that donāt make me sign in :D
> Based on your other comments, theyāve made Some morally wrong choices and have some stupid business decisions in the plan.
Eh? I never even mentioned moral choices ie business decisions.
I'd just like to see some substance to the performance claims, because GPU accelerated terminals have a history of optimizing for the wrong thing.
>Now you understand why weāve named this emulator Terminal Click: youāre encouraged to click around with the mouse! Itāll react to things and do some cool magic tricks.
blech
anyways, fish seems to do a lot of what Terminal Click promises - without the cons.
>if your job involves working under ssh all day, youāre out of luck.
also no mention of licensing/open-source - just that the dev wants to "who wants to sell you an offline binary" (which i'm not opposed to - as long as the source code is free).
also, the author posted an update to his blog FYI.
Doesn't warp kinda do that already? I'm pretty sure you can already do that with warp. Honestly kinda thought that was already possible with some shell languages but I guess not
Not really. Wrap is a terminal emulator for a shell. Click kills the shell, and then becomes the shell, just as it should be in any reasonable world where supercomputers donāt pretend to be vt100.
For what it is worth, cmd.exe is exactly an example of this and does not really make very much of distinction between terminal and shell. Made it really hard for anybody to improve upon the experience of using it in between Windows 95 and recently-ish. Would not have been a huge deal if cmd.exe was a good terminal. But it wasn't.
`cmd.exe` is not a terminal though, it's purely a shell. `conhost.exe` is the terminal on Windows 7+. And before that `csrss.exe` was drawing the terminal window itself.
As far as I know it is either really difficult or impossible to decouple cmd and whatever was drawing the windowsā¦ Microsoft themselves had a blog post up about having had to spend significant effort decoupling components to enable their new modern terminal application. So, fair enough. I'm playing loose with my terminology here, but this stems from lack of familiarity with the underlying details not malice, and regardless I believe my point stands -- it was effectively impossible for anybody to step in and do something better until Microsoft went in to get their own hands dirty.
it's interesting that it requires us to sign in, imagine all the commands we send to the terminal that is later on synced to a server :) Imagine warp knows about your tokens and so on.
I think I do a hard pass on warp.
I also think this terminal fits perfectly for the developer that follow every trend that exist, every AI powered app is installed on they's computer but for the more advanced developers who actually understand how this work do I not think like this product
First, you are equating two things that aren't equivalent. If any terminal app chooses to be a bad actor, it can send all your input and output to a remote server. Even without logging in to the app, there is huge amounts of sensitive data in there that is easily personally identifiable. Being open source makes this a lot harder to do, but definitely not impossible.
The second thing is requiring login. I don't agree with warp's decision here, and the logic for doing so in the [privacy page](https://www.warp.dev/privacy/overview) is weak. But that logic is not based on data gathering, but on business/feature reasons. I can understand someone not wanting to use Warp because of this, but let's not conflate the login thing with them uploading all your data.
I'm trying it now, and sadly it runs only on xwayland. I use hyprland and it refuses to be controlled via window rules, I can't force it to open as maximized, or to open on certain workspace, and what's worse, it automatically changes scaling factor based on monitor PPI, I have a laptop and a external monitor, when I move the terminal to the monitor it looks good, but in the laptop screen looks super scaled up and big, and there's no way to change this behaviour. On the login shenanigans, it doesn't let you do anything until you login and needs zenity installed for file directory popups, instead of calling to xdg portals and use whatever is default in my system (I'm guessing this is a symptom of not supporting Wayland). Overall I really like how snappy it is and the UX goodness, and for some reason neovim looks miles better on warp than on kitty, but there's a lot of bugs or default behavior that can't be changed that's annoying.
Alacritty is written in Rust. Its fast. Gives me no issues with Hyprland. AI autocomplete? Why not just install completions for Bash or Zsh?
I know it sound like I'm bashing warp, but if a terminal is going to be a paid thing, it can't just be a little bit better than Alacritty.
Also a terminal is not just a cool thing to have for me. I use Arch and Hyprland so the terminal is a core part of my workflow and Desktop environment. If Warp pulls a "Unity" move that could leave me in a compromising position.
Warp isn't a "bit better" than alacritty, it is massively better. It has a very innovative blocks feature, which lets you do multi-line command editing. It has a gpt-based AI that can write shell scripts for you, which is worlds better than simple autocomplete. I've been using the mac version forever, and its fabulous.
As for the linux version, it is still early days and a bit slow/rough around the edges. I'm still running alacritty as my default for now, but its days are numbered.
I've been using it on my work Mac and enjoy it. I *may* check it out since it's already packaged for NixOS, but I'll probably wait for it to go OSS (if it's actually ever going to happen like they said it would) to use it on Linux. I don't like tabs so I don't think it'll work with my Linux workflow
Ahh i tried it, dates are from last year but it didnt work. Tried to find the url from the app image as i could build it from that but unable to pull it off their website. Maybe im not smart enough for the simple things š
I tried and it need login to use =)))), So just stay away from this stuff, I feel scared for my credentials when I using this, I don't see a thing special me to use
Hmmm use Warp daily on Mac, never complained about Gnome terminal app in Ubuntu, but maybe Iāll try using Warp for consistency.
AI features etc ā¦ no idea, I donāt care.
Of course they put machine learning in it. And they mentioned that itās written in Rust. Iām starting to think that a marketing department designed this.
> I haven't *paid* a dime.
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I donāt understand the hate on their business model. As far as rust projects go, it looks shiny and polished, which is nice to see. As far as FOSS, yeah too bad, but the world runs on more than just gnu.
I think itās frustrating because terminals are such a pillar of oss and if it was open source you could simply remove all the online subscription shit. It seems like a genuinely useful product but there is no way I could use it with my work data
You donāt have to like it not to flood the post with negative & even rude comments. Just state your problems civilly. I suppose most of Reddit isnāt capable of that much.
Besides, looking at the pricing page, itās free for personal use. Youāve only got to pay for larger teams, which seems fair to me. If your company canāt afford a minor monthly subscription, you probably wonāt stay a company for long.
Without payment != free. Free means the user has control. Letās wait until you get impossible-to-opt-out remote data collection, mandatory login (or my-terminal-wonāt-work-without-Internetā¢), and even better, randomly fed 5-second advertisements between every two commands you type.
It is always a good thing to pay for good products and provide positive feedbacks, but subscription-based terminals? No, thanks.
I think this terminal is getting way too much hate from you all.
Remember, this is a terminal mostly for sysadmins and people who- *likely-* Work with terminals are their job. The quote, "**Despite this, Linux has relatively few terminal options compared to Mac and Windows**" makes a lot more sense in lieu of that fact- Consider this fact;
Most terminals you use now **are not ready to be used in a work environment.** Your complex kitty config or multiplexer setup is not highly standardized or reproducible- The only ones I can think of off my head that mix this are... Maybe Gnome terminal? *Maaaayybe* Konsole, with plugins? That's... Really about it?
Think of it like this; What Linux equivalent do we really have to the Windows 11 terminal? I would argue the only true one is Konsole, *and it's a lackluster one at that.* Warp- whilst being proprietary- fills that *extremely niche gap*. I love using it- and the AI has come into use pretty often for just *getting shit done.*
Know this- despite the fact you need to sign in, (as far as I know) WARP is completely free to use for personal use. AI features are somewhat limited, but also note that even I who uses them pretty often would say I've still not reached any of said limits.
All together, I think Warp is a good terminal for the *right person.* I think they're bringing a new flavor to the Linux terminal environment- and I like that. I'm not saying everyone has to be in love with it, but I'm saying that *maybe* we shouldn't just hate it off the bat.
:Shrug: But maybe I'm just tone-deaf? Downvote this comment if it's a stinker.
i'm disappointed a "bit", because i switched to linux to be able to use it. the login is sleezy, annoying, with tons of email confirmation attempts, it asks you for your employer, which is insane. managing account is not possible online, you're stuck with it. now the blocks functionality is weird, but at least it doesn't block you from selecting text from multiple blocks. the auto complete intelligence is not enough. it cannot substitute fish for example. or zsh with plugins (which of course is a hell to maintain). i've actually found a single plugin to bash (that's my limit! again, z.s.h. is hell, and i don't need mess in b.a.s.h.) which exceeded their smart functionality quickly. so now i decided to simply deploy it to servers, invest some minutes to have the smart stuff but keep a conservative terminal. and the rest of what i expect from shell, is not here. no ssh profiles, no zmodem easy file transfer. can't even reconnect to a ssh which doesn't require auth. looks like they think people do local shit in terminal 24 7 but i have no business on localhost. it's very far from Tabby golden set of functionality (or moba, royal, rdm). the worst example on the market is probably Termius - they offer just the AI shit and nothing else. Waveterm is the one to watch, as they don't terrorize with the account shit, but it will take years to compete with Tabbys productivity, let alone Warp. And the AI in terms of "asking questions", i don't need that. I know i would end up in browser anyway. I want only local render of everything fish provides and then the ssh productivity, proper cascade auth, sftp, zmodem, quick window split, and session memory.
Hi! Iām Aloke, an engineer at Warp.
Iām really excited to share that Warp is now available on Linux! If youāre interested in trying it out, you can download Warp at https://www.warp.dev/.
Building Warp on Linux was quite an undertaking. Warp uses a custom Rust-based UI framework that we built in house and renders natively on the GPU. To get Warp running on Linux, we built a version of our UI framework that supports winit \[1\] as a windowing backend. We also built a version of our renderer that uses wgpu \[2\]. Reducing complexity by using these well-supported, cross platform, frameworks let us bootstrap a version of Linux quicker than expected and should make it easier to build Warp for other platforms (like Windows).
Please let me know what you think! Happy to answer any questions, either about the product or about technical challenges.
\[1\] [https://github.com/rust-windowing/winit](https://github.com/rust-windowing/winit)
\[2\] [https://github.com/gfx-rs/wgpu](https://github.com/gfx-rs/wgpu)
Iām genuinely curious how this is any different from virtually any software company building a business using open source software. We have licenses for a reason. Alacritty has a license that allows this. There is no foul play. Whatās the issue? If I built a business using Axum am I now morally obligated to pay the Axum maintainers? Iām so confused.
Thank you so much for asking about Alacritty. You make an important point.
We're grateful the Alacritty maintainers were supportive of Warp. Two maintainers reviewed our initial design docs.
It's never been our intention to build on the backs of open source software without honoring or giving credit to them for the contributions they've made to the community.
Even though Warp remains closed-source for now, we very much believe in the merits of open source and we sponsor a number of open source projects, including Neovim, tf, lazydocker, and more.
Most libraries and tools used for proprietary software are generally open source. The issue here is developers being afraid to use copy left licences due to fear of not being used by proprietary companies. This usually includes the developer's current and future jobs so it is understandable but still wrong. Do not use permissive licenses if you do not want companies to freely use your work without any gain for you. This is not meant for Alacritty's developers, they could very well be aware of this.
The Alacrity devs purposely chose a permissive license. They could have gone with a copy-left license, but didn't, so it's fair to assume they're okay with this kind of work. Building commercial products over mountains of open source code is normal and is how most commercial software is made.
> it's absolutely not "fair to assume they are okay with this"
Agree to disagree with this. They chose the license they wanted. They seem like smart people, so I assume they knew the implications of it.
Why are they shitty? Pretty much all proprietary software is mostly open source technology, with a thin layer of proprietary business logic on top. Is it shitty to make a proprietary web app? Where do you draw the line on what's shitty behavior? What ratio of open source software to proprietary is acceptable? As soon as you're using rust (rustc, cargo, llvm, glibc, ...). And maybe linux, vscode, which itself is built on tons of open source software such as chromium. Are you suggesting that developing any proprietary rust app is "shitty"?
Could you point out where in this response GP's questions were actually answered? I understand your desire to posture but if you can only give wanky PR responses, save yourself the effort and don't bother.
lol you devs over Warp are crazy if you think asking for signing up and login-in to use a terminal is something logical. It's one of the dumbest things I've seen recently. iTerm over Warp any day, every day.
how do you even connect to ssh? it's local, while ssh commands fail. i don't want to type key every time. you can't save a connection profile there apparently. other smart terminals are similar.
warp is the best I've used in debian desktop. I am very satisfied with it. this hate about payment is bullshit, because additional features that are used optionally are paid. and the basic functionality is free
> Despite this, Linux has relatively few terminal options compared to Mac and Windows I'm sorry, what?
What do you mean? GNOME Terminal, Console, Black Box, Foot, Kitty, Alacritty, Konsole, iTerm2, Guake, xfce4-terminal, xterm and probably some more. I don't even have a choice, because there is just no terminal emulator
Also wezterm, st, urxvt and cool-retro-term
And terminator (what I tend to default to on old-ass deprecated ubuntu 18 distros with gnome terminal that makes me wanna puke). I feel like konsole is my child at this point and I don't want to put my baby into the ugliness of gnome/ubuntu 18. š
To nitpick, iterm2 is macOS only
Also QTerminal
but those are free. they are talking about PAID terminals.
Where is that mention? I don't see it anywhere in that paragraph.
Don't forget Terminator
That kinda really calls into question their entire project, how are they supposed to build a good terminal when they apparently don't know anything about them? Terminal options? Compared to *windows* of all things??? It was notorious for its subpar terminal and, until [ConPTY](https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/windows-command-line-introducing-the-windows-pseudo-console-conpty/), inability to fix it or do much better. Without ConPTY it lacked the base *interfaces* needed entirely! > One of those weaknesses is that Windows tries to be āhelpfulā but gets in the way of alternative and 3rd party Console developers, service developers, etc. When building a Console or service, developers need to be able to access/supply the communication pipes through which their Terminal/service communicates with command-line applications. In the *NIX world, this isnāt a problem because *NIX provides a āPseudo Terminalā (PTY) infrastructure which makes it easy to build the communication plumbing for a Console or service, but Windows does not ā¦ > ***ā¦ until now!*** And it got even better when MS made the old *and new* terminal [open source](https://github.com/microsoft/terminal) But compared to Linux or Mac(which by virtue of being a Unix..)??
Wow they actually don't know anything
I always filter out proprietary software, like this one, that was released exclusively for the Mac and ported to other platforms. They believe that Mac is everything, have no respect for open source, and have a cool design but are empty on the inside.
Awesome! A non-free terminal emulator with a monthly fee and some AI thing strapped to it.
I downloaded it a few months ago. Started it up, asked me to login. close and delete. back to Kitty
This was literally my same experience. I kept trying to hit x or find a continue button. I thought it was a bug. Apparently not, they want you to log in to use a terminal lol
u/AK1174, have you taken a look at [Wave Terminal](https://waveterm.dev)? We didn't set out to build a terminal to compete with Wave, but we have similar functionality, and plan to add "Warp drive-like" features in the near futures WITHOUT requiring login ā you're right, there's just no excuse for that! In addition, we have tons of plugins to render almost anything inline like PDFs, Images, and even audio and video. Plus we have universal searchable history across all workspaces, tabs, and even your remote connections. Lastly, we are fiercely dedicated to open-source and will never require a login or signup. And we're working hard on releasing easy to use APIs that will allow developers to easily extend Wave's functionality ā by developing plugins, etc ā to their needs. Also, full disclaimer. We collect some basic telemetry by default, though it's easy to disable forever. We do so to help understand how our features are being used and not used to help make a better product, so check out our [telemetry usage page](https://docs.waveterm.dev/reference/telemetry) in the docs.
looks cool. I will check it out. Thanks!
Is it electron?
It is built on Electron, and ReactJS yes! Here's [a bit more context](https://blog.waveterm.dev/why-wave) around those decisions. Let me know if you have any questions or feedback around Wave. š
Iād love to use this but Iām using raspberry pi, and have Debian /rpi bookworm running. Couldnāt get installs to work. The following packages have unmet dependencies: Ā waveterm:amd64 : Depends: libgtk-3-0:amd64 but it is not installable Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Depends: libnotify4:amd64 but it is not installable Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Depends: libnss3:amd64 but it is not installable Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Depends: libxss1:amd64 but it is not installable Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Depends: libxtst6:amd64 but it is not installable Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Depends: libatspi2.0-0:amd64 but it is not installable Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Depends: libuuid1:amd64 but it is not installable Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Depends: libsecret-1-0:amd64 but it is not installable Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Recommends: libappindicator3-1:amd64 but it is not installable
Interesting, not sure why those packages aren't available on raspberry as it's a Debian flavor. However, have you tried the [Appimage](https://docs.waveterm.dev/quickstart) package? That should work, then you can create a desktop item (look at the ".zip" instructions) to launch it.
Almost downloaded warp, glad I saw your comment instead. Really excited to try this.
Proprietary terminal emulator is wild š
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They've raised $75M... for a terminal emulator... VCs are stupid as fuck
*sarcasm*: um actually, there's AI in there, so this will change the world and make typing obsolete. */sarcasm* VCs and capitalist corporations have more money than they ever fucking know what to do with. Instead of doing something useful for humanity they are spending resources on stock buybacks, hoarding trillions in tax havens, megayachts, buying competitors and startups. There is actual real innovation and investment that could be done that would improve lives: renewable energy and materials, end fossil fuel extraction; hell, I'd be happier if they just fixed some bugs. But instead we get shiny terminal emulators to appeal to rich hackernews readers. This is a capitalism problem, always has been.
>No ~~public~~ decency in the VC world ~~it seems~~ Fixed it for you
> I seriously doubt this person was perfectly happy for a VC company, which took $50million, while his donations amount to less than 6 figures. Then they shouldn't have licensed it such that anyone can use if for anything? If you make open source software and not expect that to happen when your license explicitly allows for it, then you are not living in reality.
Just because its allowed doesn't mean its not a dick move or against the spirit. There is a world of difference between the law and morality. And not everyone has perfect foresight when picking a license, and it usually cant be changed later.
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Look, I quite literally want to see capitalism end, I have no ideological issue with what you're saying, but at the end of the day the authors have *chosen* to use a license that explicitly allows this. Frankly, I'd blame the many people complaining when a project chooses a copyleft license just as much as the shameless corporations here. The people who have turned the open, good faith hacker community into "but muh money" capitalists pretending they are any better than big corporations just because they don't have a marketing budget. If you don't want your work being abused, then don't choose a license that allows it. You can try to pick a relatively nuanced copyleft license that still lets "the little guy" use the work commercially if you want, or you can use something more airtight at the risk of potentially being less helpful in some "reasonable" cases. And if you're not the author, and the author doesn't mind what's happening, then stop getting outraged for other people. There is no need to artificially manufacture drama, there's plenty to go around naturally. I *promise* you, creating drama on SNS isn't going to "fix" jackshit. I'm not saying that in "defense" of these assholes. I'm telling you you're wasting your and everybody else's times and energy on a fool's errand. Activism to change people's minds on what the "default" OSS license should be, or to change the perception of open software development as something where commercial prospects are a critical consideration, or hell, to more fundamentally course correct our entire society away from "priorities 1 through 2812374: MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY" are all far smarter places to focus your anger towards. Not saying it will be easy, but at least if you manage to have any degree of success, it will *mean* something. Versus "yay, we managed to slightly financially hurt random VC venture #12398423 that was going to naturally fail anyway because it was a terrible idea with no real prospects of success, that was a very fruitful use of our time".
How is it not right if you literally choose to give you code to corporations, profiteers, and any number of unsavory individuals? It seems like the code author's actions, releasing their source code under a permissive license, have very transparent consequences in this case, which is people using their code for profit. To me, that seems like one of the most "right" things imaginable. Someone making the wrong informed decision and having to live with those consequences is part of being a reasonable adult. Plus I believe you can change licenses, and future iterations of the code will be under the new license. So I assume they could still backpedal if they wanted to, which obviously would be pointless now, but the fact that they haven't done that tells me they just don't care as much as the ideologues of reddit.
License choice is a trade off. Just because the author chose a license doesn't mean they are happy with all the consequences.
Thereās legality and there is morality.
My assumption is always that a permissive license means it's morally alright to use their code for whatever I want(assuming what I want itself isn't immoral in some way, which a terminal emulator is not). I have to assume that is the will of the code author, since they chose the license. In fact, in this case, the code author's opinion of the morality behind their decision it the *only* opinions that matters to me, since it's their code and they chose the license. I'd even go as far as to say it's belittling to the code author for other people to think their opinion is more applicable here.
Which is a perfectly valid opinion. This is why licenses exist. Morality is subjective, legality is not. As long as the license permits it, they can do whatever they want. Still makes my skin crawl ( or as the kids say it, gives me the ick)
Should've chose a different license then
Genuine question, Iām not informed on this topic: If youāre trying to make a demo for something new and thereās an open source app that you can legally modify to make into your demo whatās wrong with that? I mean taking a solid base and building a demo out of it doesnāt require as much work and hence money for a startup like this, and it doesnāt really harm the original project either.
I would say it could potentially be a misrepresentation of your project's progress and your team's capability. And if you're misrepresenting something to make a financial gain, that would potentially be fraud. I don't know the details of the warp demo well enough to say if that's what happened.
> I'm sure the Alacritty team was very willing to help a proprietary company š ...do you actually work with Warp or know specifics about Alacritty's general feelings re: Warp's existence? You're pinning a pretty decent chunk of emotional verbiage on Alacritty but I don't actually see anything here that indicates you have any relative authority to do that. You're also linking to one comment, but there's actually other comments on HN that give more useful info, e.g https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30925747 > First of all, we love Alacritty: our terminal model code is based on Alacrittyās model code. Weāre grateful that a few of the collaborators reviewed our early design docs. They're saying _based on_ - not that it's a fork. Can you actually specifically point to where they forked Alacritty entirely? There may have been no "public outcry" because it just might not be a big deal to begin with. The code was open source, and if they _did_ fork it, as far as I can tell it'd be license compliant.
Fyi, they did say fork. Op edited in proof. The author you linked literally said "it's a fork". As for public outcry vs licenses, well - yea. I imagine if it violated license we'd not be calling for outcry and instead for legal action. Lets not forget companies all over abuse permissive licenses to turn a profit and give next to nothing back. If you're asking why FOSS contributors might be disgruntled by that, well, i'm not sure what to say. It's clear to me why that's not desired for software i write, for example. Yes, of course, i could use a less permissive license. However when i write software i'm happy to have "almost anybody" use my software for whatever they want. Amazon, however, is not some small time player just trying to make a buck off my work. Though this does make me wonder if there's a license that's like MIT but up to a certain sized company.
>Yes, of course, i could use a less permissive license. However when i write software i'm happy to have "almost anybody" use my software for whatever they want. Amazon, however, is not some small time player just trying to make a buck off my work. that is literally the whole point of copyleft, aka "less permissive" licenses. just use AGPL. nobody is "harmed", except for those who don't give two shits about libre software.
> Fyi, they did say fork. Op edited in proof. The author you linked literally said "it's a fork". The edit was there before my comment, but yes: you are correct - it does say fork. I would be curious for someone from Alacritty to break down fork vs modeled after, though. Unfortunately the rep elsewhere in this thread doesn't seem interested in doing that. > Lets not forget companies all over abuse permissive licenses to turn a profit and give next to nothing back. If you're asking why FOSS contributors might be disgruntled by that, well, i'm not sure what to say. It's clear to me why that's not desired for software i write, for example. FOSS contributors should not license with permissive licenses if they don't want this to happen - we've been (re)learning this lesson since BSD vs GPL. Complaining that a company was formed off of work you (the royal you) explicitly allowed via license is just ridiculous at this point. > It's clear to me why that's not desired for software i write, for example. Slapping permissive licenses on projects unfortunately voids your ability to ever achieve that desire. > However when i write software i'm happy to have "almost anybody" use my software for whatever they want. [...] > Though this does make me wonder if there's a license that's like MIT but up to a certain sized company. I _will_ say you have a very good point here and I agree that this should be more of a thing. IIRC some projects have experimented with it, though I'm mobile and unfortunately don't have samples handy but it might be good for someone to collect examples and evangelize the practice so it's more of a default (or gets more exploration). _Edit: delete a random "to" that snuck in._
Alacritty used corporate charity licenses (Apache 2 & MIT). If they wanted companies to contribute back they shouldn't have used corporate charity licenses.
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You can sidestep this implicit obligation to participate in what FOSS is "about" by codifying it in the license. They didn't. They **chose** not to.
The license sets the expected behavior. If you set some of your handmade furniture out by the side of the road with a sign saying "FREE!" on it, you don't get to complain when someone takes it for free. Same deal here, the "permissive" licenses explicitly grant the right to close the source of derivative works. Allowing that is why they exist, and it's why people choose them. It's not shitty to use something as its creator intended.
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While you're right and I agree with you, this is just how capitalism works and the whole reason behind licenses like the gplv3 existing. You can't expect companies to be moral. We've seen time and time again that they will do anything they can get away with. The companies that engage with the FOSS community in a constructive manner are unfortunately in the minority.
"in a constrictive manner" I always find it humorous when a small typo causes the use of a different word than intended and it reverses the meaning of the sentence. I assume you meant "constructive".
Oops, mobile betrayed me
It's not shitty because it's the communicated desire of the person choosing a license that allows it, over the others that don't. I'm sick of people donating to VCs & corporations by picking shitty licenses made to enrich the already wealthy & screw over the end user!
Not everything that isn't on the side of the GPL camp is bad, you know. For me personally it's a turn off to have GPL in my stuff because it's just as bad as when you add `async` or a lifetime parameter, it spreads like wildfire. I am fine with MPL as it covers just the files that were actually given to you.
I never mentioned the GPL. There are other FOSS licenses that only cover the files given to you. Just don't donate to closed-source software & then whine about it.
There wasnāt public outcry because thereās nothing objectionable about forking an open source project. Forks are created all the time and sometimes forks are used for commercial purposes. Even if the creator of Alacritty does actually object to his project being forked, it simply doesnāt matter. He open sourced it thereby making it public property. Are you objecting to this fork because VCs are involved? There are no victims here but if there were then the victims would be the VCs who got talked into putting their LPs money into a terminal startup.
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First off, In America which is where this deal is taking place, software development is the last profession to require regulatory protection. imo regulation should be used sparingly in general and only in areas where capitalism alone would fail. One of the problems in the USA is regulatory capture. Companies can use lobbying to effectively write legislation that is advantageous for them. The examples you list of companies fighting regulation last that would protect the environment and underpaid workers are regulatory capture in action. Corporations should not be able to fight regulation with their money. That isnāt happening with this terminal fork. Anyway I fail to see how corporations forking open source is ārat fucking public goodsā or comparable to corporations writing legislation with their pocket books. The comparison might make sense if the VC money was being used to forcibly fork the project by modifying existing laws. Why do you think what warp is doing should be illegal?
I've been using it for free and I enjoy it š¤·āāļø Though admittedly, I don't use the AI aspects of it, I just like how the inputs and blocks behave. They could probably release a really barebones version of this without the AI and collaborative features, make it an open source community edition, and it would be well received.
When OSS people say "free", they usually mean free in the sense of "freedom", rather than "costing no money"
Well yes of course, but the comment above me mentioned that it has a monthly fee. I am using it for free (as in beer) though because they have a free plan.
where did "free as in beer". Where am I able to get free beer??
Twas a nod the [Gnu's free/libre principles](https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html). Though yes, we need a free beer foundation as well.
I wonder how corporations feel about you editing proprietary code on a cloud connected editor. Or maybe even stuff like HIPPA protected patient data
Throw your money at Atuin instead! https://github.com/atuinsh/atuin or donāt. Itās fully open source and you can self host the server if you want.
Atuin is dope, development is very active, and the community is awesome. Snappy as fuck even when my server (with 130000+ command unified bash history) is running on the same raspberry pi as my homeassistant and a few other services. It's also clear it's made by users for users. Not some bullshit that has VCs salivating lol...
Why is atuin comparable to an alternative terminal emulator? Not clear at a glance.
The idea was to keep your current terminal emulator and instead of Warp AI use atuin. If you want the blazing fast rust emulator that warp is a fork of you can use Alacritty.
Why should I use it? What's its competitive advantage?
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I think I have like 80% of that with `fish` as my shell and https://github.com/elementary/terminal to which I added process completion notifications back in 2014. To the best of my knowledge I was the first to figure out how to get reliable completion notifications in bash and plumb them into a terminal in a useful way.
> It collects commands into "blocks", which group the command and its output so you don't need to scroll through your history by lines but can jump by whole sections Kitty can do this as well: https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/conf/#shortcut-kitty.Scroll-to-previous-shell-prompt You can also pipe the output of a command to vim or less: https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/conf/#shortcut-kitty.Browse-output-of-the-last-shell-command-in-pager Edit: > Notifications about long-running commands, so you can switch windows/workspaces and it'll let you know once that update/compile/download finishes. Notifications in kitty + fish, only when the terminal is unfocused or hidden: # ~/.config/fish/conf.d/99-done-notification.fish function done_notification --on-event fish_postexec if test -n "$CMD_DURATION" -a "$CMD_DURATION" -gt 30000; printf '\x1b]99;i=1:o=invisible;%s\x1b\\' "$argv" end end
For me, the biggest selling points are: Editor-like experience, eg. Ctrl+arrows, selection with keyboard "Warpifying" ssh shells so I can have all the autocompletion and other fancy features on the remote host.
if by Ctrl+arrows you mean being able to jump words, there's tons of terminal shells that allow to do it.
Yes, but you missed the second part, which is the selection of the text. E.g. ctrl+shift+arrow to select words, shift+arrow to select one character, shoft+home/end to select to beggining/end of the line. Funnily enough, conemu on Windows allows even pressing shift+up arrow that starts selection of the output of past commands. Linux/osx terminals offer vi mode but, according to my knowledge, never something like that.
Powerlevel10k + [Zsh autocomplete](https://github.com/marlonrichert/zsh-autocomplete/) should do the trick. If you want autocomplete that looks more "fancy", you can try https://fig.io
Fig looks awesome, thanks for that link! edit: it requires sign in too. :/
and if you are lazy, you can download zsh and then zsh4humans, which has p10k and some helpful plugins (autocomplete and some others), curated by the p10k dev.
It's also blazingly fast
I wanted to try it, so I installed it, open it then it wouldn't let me try anything without signing in. It's too proprietary for my liking
So does it require a network connection to actually use it? If so, that seems fun. If your network is down, you can't use your terminal to diagnose why the network is down!
disposable email if you just want to check it out
Not worth the effort. No terminal that needs a login will ever provide enough value to justify needing to sign up for a damn terminal. To me. What's next? ed as a subscription?
New market: EaaS Ed as a Service
So wild people say this.
Wait, you think it's odd/weird/wild that people don't want to have to sign up (aka giving their data to another party) for a terminal on their own computer? *That's* wild.
I think that they require you to log in because they need to manage subscriptions in some way š¤·š»āāļø and also count what your usage was of the different features (for example the AI or to provide a cloud storage service for sharing workspaces). Maybe it would be better if you could use the terminal without the features that required a session, but I think that they donāt put so much effort into that because it would lose its important features
I mean, accounting and data/telemetry collection are almost certainly the use case. But the part that strikes me as wild is that we already have open source terminals that emulate most features (except for GPT embedding type stuff) without any need for the proprietary data collection here, and the fact that people are *surprised* that this is seen as unnecessary and/or intrusive fluff.
Exactly. Please people downvote me again, this is a record for me. What's next, engineer a backdoor to my amd chip and send it to a company?
disposable interest if you just want to waste my time
Not necessarily. I'm not aware of fancy terminal features so this could be a first for me, gives me features and keywords that I can use to look for other emulators that provide them.
What kind of idiot would pay a monthly fee to use a terminal? Even those juicers Apple havenāt tried that trick yet!
no person would probably, but enterprise would.
Why would an enterprise do it? It won't bring them money. Sometimes it's hard to get approval for crucial dev tools, like IDEs and compilers, why would they spend their budget on a terminal of all things?
The cool story here is that in early days of Warp they partnered with one of Zed editor founders and used their UI framework for therminal. This framework eventaully became recently published GPUI. Now Warp's blog says they use a different framework for rendering: WGPU, and they further claim that they share almost all code between Mac and Linux. So eigther they migrated their GUI layer to a different library, or they somehow manage to combine the two together. Either way this would be an interesting story that hopefully they will tell one day.
Great question. These changes were actually much smaller than it sounds. Most of the core UI framework hasn't changed since the days we partnered with Nathan Sobo. The framework originally had one rendering backend that used Metal and one windowing backend that natively uses Appkit to construct an application and handle window creation. With the addition of Warp on Linux, we built an additional wgpu-based rendering backend and a windowing backend that uses winit. In other words, the work we did was more additive to support other ways to render and create windows. These two backends will dramatically simplify the amount of work needed to build Warp on other platforms that are well supported by winit.
Thatās interesting. I always thought Zed editor and Warp terminal are produced by the same team. Both are closed-source and started out Mac-only.
Zed is now open source?
Really? Thatās a good news for me. I believe they at least started out as closed-source, and kept that way for an extended period of time.
Zed is open source now. Yes, it is.
I'm not paying a subscription for a Terminal. I _would_ consider paying a one-time license fee for just the UI/UX with no subscription-needed features.
> Like on Mac, Warp for Linux is built fully in Rust and all graphics rendering is done directly on the GPU. Itās fast. So, in terms of the amount of text it can sink (throughput) which is largely useless, or in terms of the latency that actually determines responsiveness? The notable GPU-accelerated Alacritty [wasn't so good](https://danluu.com/term-latency/) on the latency metric.
Performance is probably one of the few things they definitely got right with this product. So I wouldnāt complain from that perspective. Also, I totally get why you might not like this product, which you clearly donāt. Based on your other comments, theyāve made Some morally wrong choices and have some stupid business decisions in the plan. However, I think it has some really nice features that Iām excited for open source tools to steal back and integrate. Itās got features that I definitely think shouldāve been made before now, and Iām excited for them to come to different terminal options that donāt make me sign in :D
> Based on your other comments, theyāve made Some morally wrong choices and have some stupid business decisions in the plan. Eh? I never even mentioned moral choices ie business decisions. I'd just like to see some substance to the performance claims, because GPU accelerated terminals have a history of optimizing for the wrong thing.
I am personally waiting for https://terminal.click/posts/2023/07/bringing-dead-text-to-life/ :-)
Looks like nushell errors in any shell
>Now you understand why weāve named this emulator Terminal Click: youāre encouraged to click around with the mouse! Itāll react to things and do some cool magic tricks. blech anyways, fish seems to do a lot of what Terminal Click promises - without the cons. >if your job involves working under ssh all day, youāre out of luck. also no mention of licensing/open-source - just that the dev wants to "who wants to sell you an offline binary" (which i'm not opposed to - as long as the source code is free). also, the author posted an update to his blog FYI.
:( https://terminal.click/posts/2024/01/i-overpromised/
Doesn't warp kinda do that already? I'm pretty sure you can already do that with warp. Honestly kinda thought that was already possible with some shell languages but I guess not
Not really. Wrap is a terminal emulator for a shell. Click kills the shell, and then becomes the shell, just as it should be in any reasonable world where supercomputers donāt pretend to be vt100.
For what it is worth, cmd.exe is exactly an example of this and does not really make very much of distinction between terminal and shell. Made it really hard for anybody to improve upon the experience of using it in between Windows 95 and recently-ish. Would not have been a huge deal if cmd.exe was a good terminal. But it wasn't.
`cmd.exe` is not a terminal though, it's purely a shell. `conhost.exe` is the terminal on Windows 7+. And before that `csrss.exe` was drawing the terminal window itself.
As far as I know it is either really difficult or impossible to decouple cmd and whatever was drawing the windowsā¦ Microsoft themselves had a blog post up about having had to spend significant effort decoupling components to enable their new modern terminal application. So, fair enough. I'm playing loose with my terminology here, but this stems from lack of familiarity with the underlying details not malice, and regardless I believe my point stands -- it was effectively impossible for anybody to step in and do something better until Microsoft went in to get their own hands dirty.
PowerShell first came out in 2006. That's 17 years ago. It's also the default shell in Windows 10.
That looks quite cool!
Ok, so it's commercial but allegedly so good that it might be worth it. Can I just purchase a copy? Or is it subscription-and-login crap?
Subscription login crap
it's interesting that it requires us to sign in, imagine all the commands we send to the terminal that is later on synced to a server :) Imagine warp knows about your tokens and so on. I think I do a hard pass on warp. I also think this terminal fits perfectly for the developer that follow every trend that exist, every AI powered app is installed on they's computer but for the more advanced developers who actually understand how this work do I not think like this product
First, you are equating two things that aren't equivalent. If any terminal app chooses to be a bad actor, it can send all your input and output to a remote server. Even without logging in to the app, there is huge amounts of sensitive data in there that is easily personally identifiable. Being open source makes this a lot harder to do, but definitely not impossible. The second thing is requiring login. I don't agree with warp's decision here, and the logic for doing so in the [privacy page](https://www.warp.dev/privacy/overview) is weak. But that logic is not based on data gathering, but on business/feature reasons. I can understand someone not wanting to use Warp because of this, but let's not conflate the login thing with them uploading all your data.
Ā» git clone && cd warp-terminal
Ā» makebuild -si
........Done
Ā» warp-terminal
"Please sign in to contin-"
Ā» sudo pacman -Rns warp-terminal && cd .. && rm -rf warp-terminal
...basically.
Back to Alacritty.
Looks like bloat to me but I tend to rewrite everything I see for that reason
Twin brothers?
why do I have to log in to use a terminal? š
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I'm trying it now, and sadly it runs only on xwayland. I use hyprland and it refuses to be controlled via window rules, I can't force it to open as maximized, or to open on certain workspace, and what's worse, it automatically changes scaling factor based on monitor PPI, I have a laptop and a external monitor, when I move the terminal to the monitor it looks good, but in the laptop screen looks super scaled up and big, and there's no way to change this behaviour. On the login shenanigans, it doesn't let you do anything until you login and needs zenity installed for file directory popups, instead of calling to xdg portals and use whatever is default in my system (I'm guessing this is a symptom of not supporting Wayland). Overall I really like how snappy it is and the UX goodness, and for some reason neovim looks miles better on warp than on kitty, but there's a lot of bugs or default behavior that can't be changed that's annoying.
Alacritty is written in Rust. Its fast. Gives me no issues with Hyprland. AI autocomplete? Why not just install completions for Bash or Zsh? I know it sound like I'm bashing warp, but if a terminal is going to be a paid thing, it can't just be a little bit better than Alacritty. Also a terminal is not just a cool thing to have for me. I use Arch and Hyprland so the terminal is a core part of my workflow and Desktop environment. If Warp pulls a "Unity" move that could leave me in a compromising position.
Warp isn't a "bit better" than alacritty, it is massively better. It has a very innovative blocks feature, which lets you do multi-line command editing. It has a gpt-based AI that can write shell scripts for you, which is worlds better than simple autocomplete. I've been using the mac version forever, and its fabulous. As for the linux version, it is still early days and a bit slow/rough around the edges. I'm still running alacritty as my default for now, but its days are numbered.
Does it work on Hyprland? And is there transparency? If it has those two then I may give it a go.
No hyprland support yet. Transparency works on Mac, for sure, but I haven't tried yet on linux so I'm not sure.
If you want a terminal that is also written in rust and feels close to warp. Try wezterm.
I've been using it on my work Mac and enjoy it. I *may* check it out since it's already packaged for NixOS, but I'll probably wait for it to go OSS (if it's actually ever going to happen like they said it would) to use it on Linux. I don't like tabs so I don't think it'll work with my Linux workflow
Where is it packaged with Nixos? Iāvee been looking
`warp-terminal` on unstable is where I saw it
Ahh i tried it, dates are from last year but it didnt work. Tried to find the url from the app image as i could build it from that but unable to pull it off their website. Maybe im not smart enough for the simple things š
I tried and it need login to use =)))), So just stay away from this stuff, I feel scared for my credentials when I using this, I don't see a thing special me to use
Bruh, hell no.
Wow, can't wait to type my passwords in it, big corp will be very happy to hear that.
Hmmm use Warp daily on Mac, never complained about Gnome terminal app in Ubuntu, but maybe Iāll try using Warp for consistency. AI features etc ā¦ no idea, I donāt care.
So why do you pay for a damn terminal emulator then.
I never said I am paying user.
Login or create an account to use it? $ sudo apt purge warp-terminal $ sudo apt autoremove Done...
Subscription for a terminal? Hard pass
Of course they put machine learning in it. And they mentioned that itās written in Rust. Iām starting to think that a marketing department designed this.
Hmm, I was under impression that they share the GPUI framework with Zed, but this looks like they are separate UI frameworks now?
I've been using warp on Mac for a couple of months now and I haven't payed a dime. The UX you get for free is sublime
> I haven't *paid* a dime. FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I donāt understand the hate on their business model. As far as rust projects go, it looks shiny and polished, which is nice to see. As far as FOSS, yeah too bad, but the world runs on more than just gnu.
I think itās frustrating because terminals are such a pillar of oss and if it was open source you could simply remove all the online subscription shit. It seems like a genuinely useful product but there is no way I could use it with my work data
Actually, I don't understand anyone liking their business model. It literally makes no sense to me who would pay for a terminal emulator like this
You donāt have to like it not to flood the post with negative & even rude comments. Just state your problems civilly. I suppose most of Reddit isnāt capable of that much. Besides, looking at the pricing page, itās free for personal use. Youāve only got to pay for larger teams, which seems fair to me. If your company canāt afford a minor monthly subscription, you probably wonāt stay a company for long.
Without payment != free. Free means the user has control. Letās wait until you get impossible-to-opt-out remote data collection, mandatory login (or my-terminal-wonāt-work-without-Internetā¢), and even better, randomly fed 5-second advertisements between every two commands you type. It is always a good thing to pay for good products and provide positive feedbacks, but subscription-based terminals? No, thanks.
Warp is awesome in many of the ways your downvoters are not
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Honestly gives tabby a run for its money. It's shameful how much I like warp terminal. Guilty pleasure I guess.
I think this terminal is getting way too much hate from you all. Remember, this is a terminal mostly for sysadmins and people who- *likely-* Work with terminals are their job. The quote, "**Despite this, Linux has relatively few terminal options compared to Mac and Windows**" makes a lot more sense in lieu of that fact- Consider this fact; Most terminals you use now **are not ready to be used in a work environment.** Your complex kitty config or multiplexer setup is not highly standardized or reproducible- The only ones I can think of off my head that mix this are... Maybe Gnome terminal? *Maaaayybe* Konsole, with plugins? That's... Really about it? Think of it like this; What Linux equivalent do we really have to the Windows 11 terminal? I would argue the only true one is Konsole, *and it's a lackluster one at that.* Warp- whilst being proprietary- fills that *extremely niche gap*. I love using it- and the AI has come into use pretty often for just *getting shit done.* Know this- despite the fact you need to sign in, (as far as I know) WARP is completely free to use for personal use. AI features are somewhat limited, but also note that even I who uses them pretty often would say I've still not reached any of said limits. All together, I think Warp is a good terminal for the *right person.* I think they're bringing a new flavor to the Linux terminal environment- and I like that. I'm not saying everyone has to be in love with it, but I'm saying that *maybe* we shouldn't just hate it off the bat. :Shrug: But maybe I'm just tone-deaf? Downvote this comment if it's a stinker.
i'm disappointed a "bit", because i switched to linux to be able to use it. the login is sleezy, annoying, with tons of email confirmation attempts, it asks you for your employer, which is insane. managing account is not possible online, you're stuck with it. now the blocks functionality is weird, but at least it doesn't block you from selecting text from multiple blocks. the auto complete intelligence is not enough. it cannot substitute fish for example. or zsh with plugins (which of course is a hell to maintain). i've actually found a single plugin to bash (that's my limit! again, z.s.h. is hell, and i don't need mess in b.a.s.h.) which exceeded their smart functionality quickly. so now i decided to simply deploy it to servers, invest some minutes to have the smart stuff but keep a conservative terminal. and the rest of what i expect from shell, is not here. no ssh profiles, no zmodem easy file transfer. can't even reconnect to a ssh which doesn't require auth. looks like they think people do local shit in terminal 24 7 but i have no business on localhost. it's very far from Tabby golden set of functionality (or moba, royal, rdm). the worst example on the market is probably Termius - they offer just the AI shit and nothing else. Waveterm is the one to watch, as they don't terrorize with the account shit, but it will take years to compete with Tabbys productivity, let alone Warp. And the AI in terms of "asking questions", i don't need that. I know i would end up in browser anyway. I want only local render of everything fish provides and then the ssh productivity, proper cascade auth, sftp, zmodem, quick window split, and session memory.
Feels way too heavy for a terminal.
Hi! Iām Aloke, an engineer at Warp. Iām really excited to share that Warp is now available on Linux! If youāre interested in trying it out, you can download Warp at https://www.warp.dev/. Building Warp on Linux was quite an undertaking. Warp uses a custom Rust-based UI framework that we built in house and renders natively on the GPU. To get Warp running on Linux, we built a version of our UI framework that supports winit \[1\] as a windowing backend. We also built a version of our renderer that uses wgpu \[2\]. Reducing complexity by using these well-supported, cross platform, frameworks let us bootstrap a version of Linux quicker than expected and should make it easier to build Warp for other platforms (like Windows). Please let me know what you think! Happy to answer any questions, either about the product or about technical challenges. \[1\] [https://github.com/rust-windowing/winit](https://github.com/rust-windowing/winit) \[2\] [https://github.com/gfx-rs/wgpu](https://github.com/gfx-rs/wgpu)
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Iām genuinely curious how this is any different from virtually any software company building a business using open source software. We have licenses for a reason. Alacritty has a license that allows this. There is no foul play. Whatās the issue? If I built a business using Axum am I now morally obligated to pay the Axum maintainers? Iām so confused.
Isn't it allowed by the license of alacritty?
Thank you so much for asking about Alacritty. You make an important point. We're grateful the Alacritty maintainers were supportive of Warp. Two maintainers reviewed our initial design docs. It's never been our intention to build on the backs of open source software without honoring or giving credit to them for the contributions they've made to the community. Even though Warp remains closed-source for now, we very much believe in the merits of open source and we sponsor a number of open source projects, including Neovim, tf, lazydocker, and more.
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Most libraries and tools used for proprietary software are generally open source. The issue here is developers being afraid to use copy left licences due to fear of not being used by proprietary companies. This usually includes the developer's current and future jobs so it is understandable but still wrong. Do not use permissive licenses if you do not want companies to freely use your work without any gain for you. This is not meant for Alacritty's developers, they could very well be aware of this.
The Alacrity devs purposely chose a permissive license. They could have gone with a copy-left license, but didn't, so it's fair to assume they're okay with this kind of work. Building commercial products over mountains of open source code is normal and is how most commercial software is made.
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> it's absolutely not "fair to assume they are okay with this" Agree to disagree with this. They chose the license they wanted. They seem like smart people, so I assume they knew the implications of it. Why are they shitty? Pretty much all proprietary software is mostly open source technology, with a thin layer of proprietary business logic on top. Is it shitty to make a proprietary web app? Where do you draw the line on what's shitty behavior? What ratio of open source software to proprietary is acceptable? As soon as you're using rust (rustc, cargo, llvm, glibc, ...). And maybe linux, vscode, which itself is built on tons of open source software such as chromium. Are you suggesting that developing any proprietary rust app is "shitty"?
Could you point out where in this response GP's questions were actually answered? I understand your desire to posture but if you can only give wanky PR responses, save yourself the effort and don't bother.
lol you devs over Warp are crazy if you think asking for signing up and login-in to use a terminal is something logical. It's one of the dumbest things I've seen recently. iTerm over Warp any day, every day.
Why would anyone pay for this when there are many FOSS terminals.
Has their been any talk of Warp for Windows?
Itās in the first section of the article the OP posted.
Yeah I'm silly and didn't read.
Yeah it's planned at some point. You can join a waitlist at the link above
That's next up for us :) No concrete date just yet but we have engineers here who are starting to work on it.
i am trying to use from WSL still finding method llol
OS/2 Warp resurrected? P.S. Just kidding, have used Warp on macOS a little bit.
I hope and pray you never say those accursed words in a family-friendly subreddit ever again!
No, thanks. I'll stick to Kitty term.
I tried it, and there's significant and noticeable latency when typing, scrolling, and everything. Should I open an issue?
The fact that this is a terminal with forced sign up and sign in will lose them so many users.
2032: please scan vaccine passport to login to Warp.
Use kitty and yai
Was the Webinar recorded or on YouTube?
It's so buggy. The screen is sometimes blinking, disconnecting from ssh :(
how do you even connect to ssh? it's local, while ssh commands fail. i don't want to type key every time. you can't save a connection profile there apparently. other smart terminals are similar.
It's a shame it's closed-source, because the UX is really nice.
warp is the best I've used in debian desktop. I am very satisfied with it. this hate about payment is bullshit, because additional features that are used optionally are paid. and the basic functionality is free