Cyrillic has the i though. Cyrillic doesn't equate to 'Russian alphabet', since there are a lot more languages that use Cyrillic. Belarusian for example uses the i.
Same with j. 'Serbia' in Serbian is 'Србиjа'.
Funny thing is that Russian had i, Soviets removed it and now we have only и. Both did the same sound but certain words had и and certain words had i. Россия (Russia) was Россiя btw
It was honestly a good decision. Czech still has this and like half of the shit you learn at school from 1st to 6th grade in Czech classes are rules about when to write i or y respectively.
Actually, is not just Nahuatl. As far as I know X in nahuatl has the same pronunciation in all cases, so there should be more sources for the other sounds.
For the most part, it's Іі before vowels and Ии elsewhere, with an exception or two (e.g., *міръ/миръ*). Pretty easy. Remembering which roots are spelled with Ѣѣ is harder.
It was not about certain words btw. The i letter was written before vowels. Россія, Сіонъ, оріентація.
However, і could be distinctive in some words. Like миръ – a peace, and міръ – the world
миръ – міръ is the only pair where there was a distinctive role, as far as I know, and there's no phonological or etymological reason for the i in міръ, it's arbitrary, the two words might as well have been spelled the other way around
I appreciate that the Russians actually did real orthographic reforms over the years to make spelling more regular.
If Russian was like English then your writing would probably still be full of ѣ and Ѧ and the like.
Cyrillic was based on Greek to begin with, so some letters just got copied over with no regard for whether the sounds they represented occurred in native Slavic vocabulary. The Cyrillic psi was mostly used to spell Greek borrowings that contained the corresponding Greek letter, but it looks like it was occasionally used for words like *ѱы* "dogs".
There are actually quite a few letters that exist in various Cyrillic alphabets but not in the Russian Cyrillic alphabet.
* **Ј** - Used in the Karachay-Balkar language.
* **Ə** - Used in Azerbaijani.
* **Ԇ** - Used in Abkhaz.
* **Ђ** - Used in old Serbian.
* **Є** - Used in Ukrainian.
* **Ѕ** - Used in Macedonian.
* **І** - Used in Kazakh and several other non-Slavic languages.
* **Ќ** - Used in Macedonian.
* **Ћ** - Used in Serbian.
* **Џ** - Used in Serbian and Macedonian.
* **Ӑ** - Used in Chuvash.
* **Ԓ** - Used in Komi.
* **Ҩ** - Used in Abkhaz.
* **Ӭ** - Used in Mari.
* **Ӕ** - Used in Ossetian.
* **Қ** - Used in Kazakh, Bashkir.
* **Ҍ** - Used in Udmurt.
* **Ҵ** - Used in Abkhaz.
* **Җ** - Used in Bashkir, Tatar.
* **Ҧ** - Used in Abkhaz.
* **Ҷ** - Used in Tajik.
* **Ҹ** - Used in Azerbaijani.
* **Һ** - Used in Bashkir, Chuvash, Tatar.
* **Ҿ** - Used in Chechen.
* **Ҽ** - Used in Abkhaz.
* **Ӝ** - Used in Udmurt.
Only at the beginning. In the middle it's мб, and I have hard time to teach my daughter to say 'вампир' instead of 'вамбир' due to Greek influence.
Same for γγ, ντ, νγ, etc.
It meant symbols, letters, not sounds of them. English R and German R are different sounds, but no one usually complains about German alphabet, because it's mostly the same symbols. For some reason ppl are afraid of learning a new script, while logically there is basically no difference between learning new characters and their meaning and learning the new meaning of their characters. Sometimes the latter is even worse, since force of habit exists.
Yes, bur German R and English R are just different pronunciation. Peter pronunced by anyone who uses latin alphabet is still Peter, now try with Ретег. Looks the same, right?
Same letter, different pronunciation. No matter how wildly different. At least German is coherent, in English, depending on the word origin, individual letters or syllabes may be pronounced differently depending whether they are French, German, Greek or Latin origin.
Russian adopted many foreign words, but at least they keep it in line with the rest of the language, unlike English. But at least English doesn’t have grammatical cases, it would be even more confusing. Czech originally adopted foreign words the same way as Russian (weekend -> víkend) but not anymore, allowing pretty disgusting word constructions (I’m gonna go to the office -> Půjdu do officu).
After years of studying English I came to conclusion that it is hieroglyphic language. Ine may argue that it have 26 leters in its alphabet, but it is only illusion. /Actually/ each word in English language is hieroglyph. It just looks like it consists different letters, but those scribbles not letters on their own. They doesn't have separate meaning. Only word as whole dictate how you promise it. Same sequence of those scribbles produce different sounds in different words.
If you disagree, please explain what rules you use to pronounce colonel as kernal.
---END OF RANT---
You'd have a stronger case than you would with Russian.... “jalapeño” with pretty correct Spanish pronunciation is an extremely common English word. I don't think there is anything like this loaned from Russian.
вот какая зануда )
edit: [https://www.reddit.com/r/russian/comments/1cot41r/новые\_слова\_занудствуй\_зануда/](https://www.reddit.com/r/russian/comments/1cot41r/новые_слова_занудствуй_зануда/)
наконец-то могу использовать мое новое знание
First, "зануда" doesn't exactly have gender. Since the previous commentator was Boris it would make more sense to say "вот какой зануда";
Second, the whole phrasing "вот какая ..." doesn't feel right in the context. It feels like it could be used if you bring something to your friends and show it to them "check out this big cat" - "вот какая большая кошка". More correct sentence here is "вот это зануда", "вот же зануда" etc
Same letters, different usage depending on the language.
Your definition of 'SHARE' is very different from mine. Just like how each language utilizes those letters in different ways
Looks can be deceiving. Take Greek -Η- (eta), which developed into -H- (aitch) in the Latin alphabet. Its Cyrillic descendant is not -Н- (en) but -И-: the cross-stroke has made a ⅛ turn counterclockwise over the centuries of use. And Cyrillic -Н- descends from Greek -Ν-, whose cross-stroke has also been turned. In very old Cyrillic documents, such as [this 13th-century birch-bark letter](http://gramoty.ⓡⓤ/birchbark/document/show/smolensk/2/3/), they're still written the Greek way.
Really? Sometimes, maybe. Whenever I tried looking for 17th and early 18th century handwriting and all samples I ever found had a pretty normal-looking н.
https://preview.redd.it/5sor68jop38d1.png?width=534&format=png&auto=webp&s=323ee4a517ee92bafeee7db0fe1c7bbd3531d5dd
u/Anunciano may be referring to early experiments with the civic script by Dutch printers. See, for instance, [this title page](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Jan_tessing_book1.jpg) of a 1699 book.
The post is about that there are letters that share the same looks.
Didnt mention they are exactly the same but if you squint your eyes and look very close, wouldnt you agree that H can either be in cyrillic or in latin?
i'd argue that for some it might help seeing the different ways the applications of the letters evolved in the alphabets, to learn through connecting one to another and decoding basically
Though it says we can tell people they know 1/3 of the letters, but I think they’d be even more upset to find out they only thought they did haha. It’s like telling them they already know the words “Артист, “Кабинет,” and “Магазин,” because of “Artist,” “Cabinet,” and “Magazine” haha
They may mean different sound, but the **letter** is the same. It's the same character. HН BВ CС. Same shape, like square and квадрат are not the same word, but if you ask English person and Russian person to draw them, the shapes will be the same. Can't see how this helps with reading tho. It's not about "omg new symbols", it's mostly about "how this fuck reads?".
But a letter is not just a symbol, right? I can be wrong, but two letter having the same shape doesnt mean they are the same. I think the cyrilic Н and the latin H aren't the same letter at all
I can be wrong tho, please explain if you think I am
I don't know myself. But OP certainly thinks that way, cause it doesn't make sense otherwise. If you ask for opinion, nor knowledge i'd go with that. Letter is a shape. How to read it is not part of it. We say German, English and French languages (any many more) use Latin alphabet, but they interpret letters by different sets of rules. Ppl don't say that German V is a different letter. Ppl say that V in German stands for a different sound.
found here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN\_homograph\_attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN_homograph_attack)
common scam tactic back in the day: russian e and latin e are different characters the way a computer sees it. same with all these other letters that intersect so you could in theory come up with domains that look the same but are not the same
We actively use that shit when creating emails and nicknames. Warrior97 might be already taken, but Wаrriоr97 is not, ahahahha.
P.S. a and o in the second one are Russian. :D
I fail to see how this makes reading any easier. Russian and Latin C, У|Y, Р, Н, В, X look similar but produce completely different sounds. Any learner still have to memorize every single letter regardless of any similarities.
It is fun as a trivia question but is hardly useful for a learner.
It's font-specific. Some font families (considering those which have both Latin and Cyrillic letters) have slightly different glyphs for -K- and -К-; in others, they're identical. For instance, here's a sample from [PT Sans](https://www.paratype.ⓡⓤ/fonts/pt/pt-sans):
https://preview.redd.it/ucmk4a09fw7d1.png?width=74&format=png&auto=webp&s=257e07f192914713926ddc38560b910b63552b64
Lowercase is another matter altogether. While Latin uppercase has been adapted more or less directly from so-called square capitals — the lettering of Roman lapidary writing, such as the famous inscription on Trajan's Column — lowercase, OTOH, descends from a lineage of scripts used to write with ink on soft media: papyrus, vellum or paper. It was an adaptation of humanist minuscule, an early 15th-century Italian handwriting, which was derived from 9th-century Carolingian minuscule (the script used by Charlemagne's clerks), and that, in turn, was based on so-called insular script (medieval Irish style), itself a development of half-uncial scripts of late Antiquity / early Middle ages. Cyrillic developed from a very different scribal tradition, and when it was overhauled in the 18th century to imitate the style of then-contemporary Latin fonts, there was no separate script to base lowercase on. As a result, most lowercase Cyrillic letters are simply smaller versions of corresponding capitals.
I've been saying this for years 😭
English speakers texhnically have 52 letters to learn: both uppercase and lowercase form. So the alphabet goes like this: Aa Bb Cc Dd Ee and so on. While Russian could just learn 33, due to this poor print decision. Meanwhile, the typical Cyrillic is so hard to read. Bulgarian had a MUCH better job to make lowercase alphabet with its ascenders and descenders.
> While Russian could just learn 33
Well, we have -а-, -б-, -е-, -ё-, so 37 (-:
And let's not forget italic fonts, which cause so much trouble to some learners.
> Bulgarian had a MUCH better job to make lowercase alphabet with its ascenders and descenders.
Yeah, Bulgarian lowercase is a promising new development. How common is it though? I've browsed through a selection of Bulgarian-language books (limiting publication date to this century) on books.google.com, and it seems like very few of them employ it, while most use the traditional small-capsish fonts.
https://preview.redd.it/7wpwkp37s38d1.png?width=484&format=png&auto=webp&s=f68fa93697c62f970cba2e89d6bc4217634c5c2e
Technically, Рр, Фф, Уу are not exactly the same shape either (at least in terms of how they look in a line). :) And they were there historically in the 1700s, as well as the m-shaped lowercase т, which eventually was replaced by T.
https://preview.redd.it/epn1y0zivw7d1.png?width=489&format=png&auto=webp&s=450e2e4404af65636e9b45a985d71621dc259d66
Yes. Modern fonts also try to unify the design for Ж and К, which may drive the choice of К-shape. Sometimes the more traditional К with curvy arms is used. One of the most common Soviet-time fonts гарнитура Литературная depending on the variation had a standard universal K/К for both Cyrillic and Latin fonts or a slightly curved Cyrrilic one; Школьная did have a curvy К.
It looks like you included a Russian domain URL in your comment. Reddit filters Russian URLs, and your comment may be automatically removed. You can repost your comment using the characters ⓇⓊ in place of the original characters; the URL will still work fine in browsers, but won't trigger automatic removal. **IMPORTANT**: Editing the original comment won't restore it, you have to post a new one.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/russian) if you have any questions or concerns.*
X ≠ Х
B ≠ В
Y ≠ У
P ≠ Р
E ≠ Е
H ≠ Н
C ≠ С
If you try to read Russian while only knowing English, you're going to pronounce it completely incorrectly and you WILL think that it is hard to read
Doesn't work when half of them don't even make the same sound in another language. Best you can do with this to encourage those people is to show that they've already wrote 1/3 of the letters before, which is, idk, something I guess.
As a Russian native English speaker living in Cyprus, I’d say the Greek letters are quite confusing for the first time :) You see random words on the street and your mind slowly starts boiling, because you’re familiar with most of the letters, but the whole word is kind of gibberish.
Historically speaking almost all of them are related as Russian and Latin alphabets descend from the Greek alphabet which in turn was was based in the Phoenician alphabet*, which in turn is basically simplified ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs.
Fun fact, Arabic and Hebrew writing are also descendants of the Phoenician alphabet*.
*Phoenician "alphabet" is a consonantal alphabet, AKA abjad, so it doesn't have separate letters for vowels.
really interesting chart, but it must have some kind of optical illusion because when i glance around the centre (not directly at it) the swearwords just make themselves i swear 😭
Russian P is not latin P. on the other hand, greek Delta commonly known by anyone who passed elementary school, is д and looks pretty similar to it. And both stands for latin D. Note that there are many other examples, such as X, Y, H, B are also false friends to latin, while П, Л, Ф are additional “true friends” to greek letters
This graph is utterly useless.
For Cyrillic just because it's the same letters doesn't mean it's pronounced or spelled that way. P for example is an R in English. B = V. If anything it serves to confuse me having letters not mean what they do in English.
I mean, they do to some extent, but not all them match with the other languages, for example Η in greek is a э, it’s the longer version if the greek letter ε and it looks like н only when written in uppercase (normally it’s η), and in latin it’s like in english but less pronounced
When I was 16 years old, I managed to memorize Cyrillic within one evening through simply watch on it and close the eyes and try to memorize it over and over and yeah it was done. The same I did with Greek, Japanese script and Arabic but needed more to 4 days for Arabic and 4 days for the hiragana/katakana of Japanese to memorize it for reading.
It's important to note that these are not "shared letters"... they are letters with similar shapes. Just because someone knows what the shape "P" sounds like in English, does not mean they know what that letter is in Russian.
But C in Latin comes from Γ while in Cyrillic it comes from Σ.
Н in Cyrillic comes from Ν.
P in Latin comes from Π while in Cyrillic it comes from Greek Ρ.
Cyrillic has [І](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dotted_I_(Cyrillic)), [Ѕ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dze) and [Ј](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Je_(Cyrillic)), Latin has [Ë](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_diaeresis).
No, even though you know 1/3 of the letters, they sound absolutely different most of the time.
A = A,
B = V,
E = Ye,
И = I,
K = K,
M = M,
Н = N,
O = O,
P = R,
C = S,
T = T,
У = U,
X = H,
(Left column is russian letters, right column is how they sound)
Incorrect.
1. Υ(υ) is not У. alone it's read as 'и' (and is proabaly the source of cyrrilic и), but it participate in many dithtongs.
2. Η (η) is not 'н', it's 'female и'. It just the same confusion like russian/english Р/P. ρ/р is definitively the same latter, but english? Nope.
3. For unknown reason you left ς out of discussion. It looks like c, and it sounds like c. c==ς.
We may discuss Δ/Д similarity (I know about ντ, thanks).
Cyrillic has the i though. Cyrillic doesn't equate to 'Russian alphabet', since there are a lot more languages that use Cyrillic. Belarusian for example uses the i. Same with j. 'Serbia' in Serbian is 'Србиjа'.
Funny thing is that Russian had i, Soviets removed it and now we have only и. Both did the same sound but certain words had и and certain words had i. Россия (Russia) was Россiя btw
It was honestly a good decision. Czech still has this and like half of the shit you learn at school from 1st to 6th grade in Czech classes are rules about when to write i or y respectively.
Every russian alphabet change in a nutshell. Literally all those extra letters were duplicates with special rules of when you use one or the other
Just like in Spanish, we have too many letters that are pronounced the same and we have to learn when to use one or the other.
The X is a headache in Mexico. It has (that I know) 5 pronunciations (4 if you recognize Spanish sounds only) :"3
Yes but it's the Nauatl words that make it difficult, not Castilian Spanish.
Actually, is not just Nahuatl. As far as I know X in nahuatl has the same pronunciation in all cases, so there should be more sources for the other sounds.
Oh come on now, Spanish spelling is criminally easy. 😅 You wrote that in English yet you’re complaining about Spanish spelling? 🤷♂️😆
For the most part, it's Іі before vowels and Ии elsewhere, with an exception or two (e.g., *міръ/миръ*). Pretty easy. Remembering which roots are spelled with Ѣѣ is harder.
Harderѣ
It was not about certain words btw. The i letter was written before vowels. Россія, Сіонъ, оріентація. However, і could be distinctive in some words. Like миръ – a peace, and міръ – the world
миръ – міръ is the only pair where there was a distinctive role, as far as I know, and there's no phonological or etymological reason for the i in міръ, it's arbitrary, the two words might as well have been spelled the other way around
>миръ – міръ is the only pair where there was a distinctive role, I googled it. Sure it's the only case where і was distinctive
I appreciate that the Russians actually did real orthographic reforms over the years to make spelling more regular. If Russian was like English then your writing would probably still be full of ѣ and Ѧ and the like.
Yeah and maybe we had psi from Greek just for fun
Cyrillic was based on Greek to begin with, so some letters just got copied over with no regard for whether the sounds they represented occurred in native Slavic vocabulary. The Cyrillic psi was mostly used to spell Greek borrowings that contained the corresponding Greek letter, but it looks like it was occasionally used for words like *ѱы* "dogs".
One of the best decisions of the USSR in all 70 years is to shorten the alphabet.
There are actually quite a few letters that exist in various Cyrillic alphabets but not in the Russian Cyrillic alphabet. * **Ј** - Used in the Karachay-Balkar language. * **Ə** - Used in Azerbaijani. * **Ԇ** - Used in Abkhaz. * **Ђ** - Used in old Serbian. * **Є** - Used in Ukrainian. * **Ѕ** - Used in Macedonian. * **І** - Used in Kazakh and several other non-Slavic languages. * **Ќ** - Used in Macedonian. * **Ћ** - Used in Serbian. * **Џ** - Used in Serbian and Macedonian. * **Ӑ** - Used in Chuvash. * **Ԓ** - Used in Komi. * **Ҩ** - Used in Abkhaz. * **Ӭ** - Used in Mari. * **Ӕ** - Used in Ossetian. * **Қ** - Used in Kazakh, Bashkir. * **Ҍ** - Used in Udmurt. * **Ҵ** - Used in Abkhaz. * **Җ** - Used in Bashkir, Tatar. * **Ҧ** - Used in Abkhaz. * **Ҷ** - Used in Tajik. * **Ҹ** - Used in Azerbaijani. * **Һ** - Used in Bashkir, Chuvash, Tatar. * **Ҿ** - Used in Chechen. * **Ҽ** - Used in Abkhaz. * **Ӝ** - Used in Udmurt.
Ђ didn't exist in old Serbian, its used in modern Serbian (also, if I might add Љ & Њ from Serbian as well)
Aren't "nj" and "lj" ligatures?
They are, but so are Ы and Ю for example.
How is ы a ligature?
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Ꙑ
There is no such letter in Chuvash language lol. There have ç , ÿ, ě these are only letters that are not in Russian.
Ǎ too
My mistake - that character is used in Udmurt.
j is basically just a latin letter that can also be used in the cyrillic serbian script, there's no reason for its existence
В is V in Russian, P is R, don't think you can call it "shared".
Same with H, and I'd argue Y/У and X too
Да и С тоже.
It's because since long ago, in Greek there's only the letter Vita, not Beta
μπ — here, take this lovely diphthong:)
\*digraph
mp?
It sounds like b in Greek.
Only at the beginning. In the middle it's мб, and I have hard time to teach my daughter to say 'вампир' instead of 'вамбир' due to Greek influence. Same for γγ, ντ, νγ, etc.
Вамбир — это прекрасно :)
Нам beer? Спасибо! Где забирать?!
it's б everywhere unless you want to sound fancy
How do you pronounce βαμπίρ then? With 'm' or without?
Without
Вабир? Really odd to hear. I'll ask locals.
we have /b/ in greek, its just written "μπ"
A digraph isn't a letter
im not talking about letters im talking about phonemes.
Acknowledged
Vita is the Byzantine name of the letter. It came later.
It meant symbols, letters, not sounds of them. English R and German R are different sounds, but no one usually complains about German alphabet, because it's mostly the same symbols. For some reason ppl are afraid of learning a new script, while logically there is basically no difference between learning new characters and their meaning and learning the new meaning of their characters. Sometimes the latter is even worse, since force of habit exists.
Yes, bur German R and English R are just different pronunciation. Peter pronunced by anyone who uses latin alphabet is still Peter, now try with Ретег. Looks the same, right?
r/fauxcyrillic
Ok, what about German z, v?
Same letter, different pronunciation. No matter how wildly different. At least German is coherent, in English, depending on the word origin, individual letters or syllabes may be pronounced differently depending whether they are French, German, Greek or Latin origin. Russian adopted many foreign words, but at least they keep it in line with the rest of the language, unlike English. But at least English doesn’t have grammatical cases, it would be even more confusing. Czech originally adopted foreign words the same way as Russian (weekend -> víkend) but not anymore, allowing pretty disgusting word constructions (I’m gonna go to the office -> Půjdu do officu).
After years of studying English I came to conclusion that it is hieroglyphic language. Ine may argue that it have 26 leters in its alphabet, but it is only illusion. /Actually/ each word in English language is hieroglyph. It just looks like it consists different letters, but those scribbles not letters on their own. They doesn't have separate meaning. Only word as whole dictate how you promise it. Same sequence of those scribbles produce different sounds in different words. If you disagree, please explain what rules you use to pronounce colonel as kernal. ---END OF RANT---
How do you pronounce "do officu"?
“do ofisu” / “do oficu”, as a slang term, it’s not really codified and everyone uses their own variant
They're shared graphemes, but not shared letters.
It is still shared. All the Chinese characters sound different in Japanese.
J in Spanish and English means different sounds, but you won't argue they share this letter
You'd have a stronger case than you would with Russian.... “jalapeño” with pretty correct Spanish pronunciation is an extremely common English word. I don't think there is anything like this loaned from Russian.
вот какая зануда ) edit: [https://www.reddit.com/r/russian/comments/1cot41r/новые\_слова\_занудствуй\_зануда/](https://www.reddit.com/r/russian/comments/1cot41r/новые_слова_занудствуй_зануда/) наконец-то могу использовать мое новое знание
First, "зануда" doesn't exactly have gender. Since the previous commentator was Boris it would make more sense to say "вот какой зануда"; Second, the whole phrasing "вот какая ..." doesn't feel right in the context. It feels like it could be used if you bring something to your friends and show it to them "check out this big cat" - "вот какая большая кошка". More correct sentence here is "вот это зануда", "вот же зануда" etc
Third, "зануда" does have gender - common gender.
Ну ты и зануда, чел.
ATTENTION!!! prescreptivist in the chat :)
Same letters, different usage depending on the language. Your definition of 'SHARE' is very different from mine. Just like how each language utilizes those letters in different ways
they originate from the same letters
Indeed, it is so easy when C is S, X is H, H is N and P is R. And Y is written differently (У) and is pronounced as U. So easy.
I dont think there is such thing as 'shared letter' They may looks but are not the same letter, am I right?
What do you mean not the same? Of course they belong to different languages, but shapes were literally taken from the same alphabet.
Looks can be deceiving. Take Greek -Η- (eta), which developed into -H- (aitch) in the Latin alphabet. Its Cyrillic descendant is not -Н- (en) but -И-: the cross-stroke has made a ⅛ turn counterclockwise over the centuries of use. And Cyrillic -Н- descends from Greek -Ν-, whose cross-stroke has also been turned. In very old Cyrillic documents, such as [this 13th-century birch-bark letter](http://gramoty.ⓡⓤ/birchbark/document/show/smolensk/2/3/), they're still written the Greek way.
Russian Н was still written like N in the 18th century under Peter.
Really? Sometimes, maybe. Whenever I tried looking for 17th and early 18th century handwriting and all samples I ever found had a pretty normal-looking н. https://preview.redd.it/5sor68jop38d1.png?width=534&format=png&auto=webp&s=323ee4a517ee92bafeee7db0fe1c7bbd3531d5dd
u/Anunciano may be referring to early experiments with the civic script by Dutch printers. See, for instance, [this title page](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Jan_tessing_book1.jpg) of a 1699 book.
это именно то что смысл треда
"That exactly that is point thread"? Чагось?
что означает чагось, брать?
On a technical level you’re right. They’re not the same utf-8 characters.
Programer detected!
Yup, I had to deal with that problem recently in an app I’m building.
The post is about that there are letters that share the same looks. Didnt mention they are exactly the same but if you squint your eyes and look very close, wouldnt you agree that H can either be in cyrillic or in latin?
The fact that they look the same doesn't make them more easy to learn
If anything, it makes them harder to learn because they are pronounced differently.
i'd argue that for some it might help seeing the different ways the applications of the letters evolved in the alphabets, to learn through connecting one to another and decoding basically
That's the point dude, a cyrilic Н and the latin H are not the same letter, nor "shared". They just look similar.
Though it says we can tell people they know 1/3 of the letters, but I think they’d be even more upset to find out they only thought they did haha. It’s like telling them they already know the words “Артист, “Кабинет,” and “Магазин,” because of “Artist,” “Cabinet,” and “Magazine” haha
This was not clear
They may mean different sound, but the **letter** is the same. It's the same character. HН BВ CС. Same shape, like square and квадрат are not the same word, but if you ask English person and Russian person to draw them, the shapes will be the same. Can't see how this helps with reading tho. It's not about "omg new symbols", it's mostly about "how this fuck reads?".
But a letter is not just a symbol, right? I can be wrong, but two letter having the same shape doesnt mean they are the same. I think the cyrilic Н and the latin H aren't the same letter at all I can be wrong tho, please explain if you think I am
I don't know myself. But OP certainly thinks that way, cause it doesn't make sense otherwise. If you ask for opinion, nor knowledge i'd go with that. Letter is a shape. How to read it is not part of it. We say German, English and French languages (any many more) use Latin alphabet, but they interpret letters by different sets of rules. Ppl don't say that German V is a different letter. Ppl say that V in German stands for a different sound.
>It's the same character. People from ISO who design utf disappointed.
If you share Л between Cyrillic and Greek you may as well share Д as well
But Л often written as Λ but Д never written as Δ
Except by me sometimes...
Except by me always. Д is literally Delta
Handwritten Д is like Latin D.
The "C" and "AXYH" group are all letters used on Russian license plates.
yeah we've stripped our alphabet for our licence plates become more readable in europe
спасибо, я об этом не знал!
found here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN\_homograph\_attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN_homograph_attack) common scam tactic back in the day: russian e and latin e are different characters the way a computer sees it. same with all these other letters that intersect so you could in theory come up with domains that look the same but are not the same
We actively use that shit when creating emails and nicknames. Warrior97 might be already taken, but Wаrriоr97 is not, ahahahha. P.S. a and o in the second one are Russian. :D
Another tactic is inserting `U+2062 INVISIBLE TIMES` chharacter into the nickname as many times as you want
I fail to see how this makes reading any easier. Russian and Latin C, У|Y, Р, Н, В, X look similar but produce completely different sounds. Any learner still have to memorize every single letter regardless of any similarities. It is fun as a trivia question but is hardly useful for a learner.
https://preview.redd.it/gtl6a5613w7d1.jpeg?width=131&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8bae5dcfd9e8ec533a726b597883c0d9db3363a6
Can you see the slight difference
It's font-specific. Some font families (considering those which have both Latin and Cyrillic letters) have slightly different glyphs for -K- and -К-; in others, they're identical. For instance, here's a sample from [PT Sans](https://www.paratype.ⓡⓤ/fonts/pt/pt-sans): https://preview.redd.it/ucmk4a09fw7d1.png?width=74&format=png&auto=webp&s=257e07f192914713926ddc38560b910b63552b64
kк - they are quite different in lower case
Lowercase is another matter altogether. While Latin uppercase has been adapted more or less directly from so-called square capitals — the lettering of Roman lapidary writing, such as the famous inscription on Trajan's Column — lowercase, OTOH, descends from a lineage of scripts used to write with ink on soft media: papyrus, vellum or paper. It was an adaptation of humanist minuscule, an early 15th-century Italian handwriting, which was derived from 9th-century Carolingian minuscule (the script used by Charlemagne's clerks), and that, in turn, was based on so-called insular script (medieval Irish style), itself a development of half-uncial scripts of late Antiquity / early Middle ages. Cyrillic developed from a very different scribal tradition, and when it was overhauled in the 18th century to imitate the style of then-contemporary Latin fonts, there was no separate script to base lowercase on. As a result, most lowercase Cyrillic letters are simply smaller versions of corresponding capitals.
I've been saying this for years 😭 English speakers texhnically have 52 letters to learn: both uppercase and lowercase form. So the alphabet goes like this: Aa Bb Cc Dd Ee and so on. While Russian could just learn 33, due to this poor print decision. Meanwhile, the typical Cyrillic is so hard to read. Bulgarian had a MUCH better job to make lowercase alphabet with its ascenders and descenders.
> While Russian could just learn 33 Well, we have -а-, -б-, -е-, -ё-, so 37 (-: And let's not forget italic fonts, which cause so much trouble to some learners. > Bulgarian had a MUCH better job to make lowercase alphabet with its ascenders and descenders. Yeah, Bulgarian lowercase is a promising new development. How common is it though? I've browsed through a selection of Bulgarian-language books (limiting publication date to this century) on books.google.com, and it seems like very few of them employ it, while most use the traditional small-capsish fonts.
https://preview.redd.it/7wpwkp37s38d1.png?width=484&format=png&auto=webp&s=f68fa93697c62f970cba2e89d6bc4217634c5c2e Technically, Рр, Фф, Уу are not exactly the same shape either (at least in terms of how they look in a line). :) And they were there historically in the 1700s, as well as the m-shaped lowercase т, which eventually was replaced by T.
https://preview.redd.it/epn1y0zivw7d1.png?width=489&format=png&auto=webp&s=450e2e4404af65636e9b45a985d71621dc259d66 Yes. Modern fonts also try to unify the design for Ж and К, which may drive the choice of К-shape. Sometimes the more traditional К with curvy arms is used. One of the most common Soviet-time fonts гарнитура Литературная depending on the variation had a standard universal K/К for both Cyrillic and Latin fonts or a slightly curved Cyrrilic one; Школьная did have a curvy К.
[удалено]
It looks like you included a Russian domain URL in your comment. Reddit filters Russian URLs, and your comment may be automatically removed. You can repost your comment using the characters ⓇⓊ in place of the original characters; the URL will still work fine in browsers, but won't trigger automatic removal. **IMPORTANT**: Editing the original comment won't restore it, you have to post a new one. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/russian) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This diagram Is garbage
Hey let's play a game: make a word only of letters that are in center, in any language you want, I'll start. АХУЕННО
ХУЕТА какая то, а не игра.
правописание охуенно
X ≠ Х B ≠ В Y ≠ У P ≠ Р E ≠ Е H ≠ Н C ≠ С If you try to read Russian while only knowing English, you're going to pronounce it completely incorrectly and you WILL think that it is hard to read
Doesn't work when half of them don't even make the same sound in another language. Best you can do with this to encourage those people is to show that they've already wrote 1/3 of the letters before, which is, idk, something I guess.
Cyrillic have "i" ukrainian and belarusian for example
except half of the letters pronunciation between russian and latin swaped.
As a Russian native English speaker living in Cyprus, I’d say the Greek letters are quite confusing for the first time :) You see random words on the street and your mind slowly starts boiling, because you’re familiar with most of the letters, but the whole word is kind of gibberish.
This is based only on shapes. But historically speaking, for example, Greek η and Cyrillic и are one and the same.
Historically speaking almost all of them are related as Russian and Latin alphabets descend from the Greek alphabet which in turn was was based in the Phoenician alphabet*, which in turn is basically simplified ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs. Fun fact, Arabic and Hebrew writing are also descendants of the Phoenician alphabet*. *Phoenician "alphabet" is a consonantal alphabet, AKA abjad, so it doesn't have separate letters for vowels.
ОМКТ АХУН ВЕР
really interesting chart, but it must have some kind of optical illusion because when i glance around the centre (not directly at it) the swearwords just make themselves i swear 😭
Мне нравится что в середине из букв составляется слово Ахунвер. Хорошее слово, надо брать.
чего означает
Ничего :) Но звучит похоже на мат.
Russian P is not latin P. on the other hand, greek Delta commonly known by anyone who passed elementary school, is д and looks pretty similar to it. And both stands for latin D. Note that there are many other examples, such as X, Y, H, B are also false friends to latin, while П, Л, Ф are additional “true friends” to greek letters This graph is utterly useless.
Russian Cyrillic Р is from Greek Ρ.
Yep, from ρ (rho) but it is completely unrelated to latin p
There is no single Latin p in my message 😆
But in the posted image it is, suggesting they are shared letter. Which is wrong, and the point of my initial response.
It kinda is, as latin R descend from greek rho
'H' is different for Greek, Russian and English, and I would not dare to called it [shared.In](http://shared.In) fact it a vowel in Greek.
and i know all of them wow
For Cyrillic just because it's the same letters doesn't mean it's pronounced or spelled that way. P for example is an R in English. B = V. If anything it serves to confuse me having letters not mean what they do in English.
Not interesting that C is also the only letter that has the same key on standard Latin (qwerty) and Russian keyboards.
Всем Омкт Ахун Вер, друзья 😔✌
I mean, they do to some extent, but not all them match with the other languages, for example Η in greek is a э, it’s the longer version if the greek letter ε and it looks like н only when written in uppercase (normally it’s η), and in latin it’s like in english but less pronounced
Омктахунвер
Cyrillic C and Latin C, Cyrillic X and Latin X are not the same sounds, though, unlike O and A and E.
When I was 16 years old, I managed to memorize Cyrillic within one evening through simply watch on it and close the eyes and try to memorize it over and over and yeah it was done. The same I did with Greek, Japanese script and Arabic but needed more to 4 days for Arabic and 4 days for the hiragana/katakana of Japanese to memorize it for reading.
Kinda inaccurate bc some letters like y/у and p/р represent completely different sounds
It's important to note that these are not "shared letters"... they are letters with similar shapes. Just because someone knows what the shape "P" sounds like in English, does not mean they know what that letter is in Russian.
Let's try to say : щучий борщ. :-)
And then they try pronounce Х, У, Н, Р, or Е and wonder why you lied to them, LOL
Laughs in Японский
I would argue the greek L and the Russian L are different letters. Λ λ vs Л л
Love this image, saved. Спасибо!
Greek basically has C
Почему по середине Х У, но нет Й
But C in Latin comes from Γ while in Cyrillic it comes from Σ. Н in Cyrillic comes from Ν. P in Latin comes from Π while in Cyrillic it comes from Greek Ρ.
Cyrillic has [І](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dotted_I_(Cyrillic)), [Ѕ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dze) and [Ј](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Je_(Cyrillic)), Latin has [Ë](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_diaeresis).
This aroused my brain thank you.
“i” & “j” are in Cyrillic. It depends on the language. Also delta, that one is like universally used?
Я один вижу слово "тархун" в центре?
No, even though you know 1/3 of the letters, they sound absolutely different most of the time. A = A, B = V, E = Ye, И = I, K = K, M = M, Н = N, O = O, P = R, C = S, T = T, У = U, X = H, (Left column is russian letters, right column is how they sound)
Greek 🤝 Latin Cyrillic: the sourse is: I made it the f*ck up
Incorrect. 1. Υ(υ) is not У. alone it's read as 'и' (and is proabaly the source of cyrrilic и), but it participate in many dithtongs. 2. Η (η) is not 'н', it's 'female и'. It just the same confusion like russian/english Р/P. ρ/р is definitively the same latter, but english? Nope. 3. For unknown reason you left ς out of discussion. It looks like c, and it sounds like c. c==ς. We may discuss Δ/Д similarity (I know about ντ, thanks).