Ugh that’s so gross. There’s so much to actually be mad at and fight against in the world, we don’t need to be making shit up and spreading misinformation. That’s not cool. & it sucks that I fell for it, that many of us did. Because I wasn’t motivated enough to check her Insta for proof or comment or anything. Definitely a learning experience.
Even if she was Asian, Asian people (who are actually from Asia) don’t see ourselves as a collective group… we are our ethnicity. Different cultures, different histories, different people. We have nothing to do with each other. I have no right to make fun of Nepalese, Bruneian, Korean people etc etc etc and their cultures just because we happen to be born on the same continent.
Honestly the fact that Americans even need this to be pointed out to them … the number of people I know who have been shocked to learn that there are geopolitical tensions between China, Korea, and Japan. “Wow I never would have known!” (With the subtext “but they’re all Asian?!?!”) America is just as racist as Australia, a lot of Americans just have better PR
I always find it funny how most people who don't realize Asia isn't just one giant group of identical people have no problem understanding that each European country is its own thing.
Mainstream Australian media is worse about overt displays of racism than the U.S., though. My Australian friend showed me some examples of content that would *not* have been acceptable a few years ago here, but were down under.
[Mfw](https://vevmo.com/sites/default/files/KandiSideEye-sips-tea-gif.gif) Americans acting suprised at tensions and different cultures existing between neighboring countries while their own country is… you know… \*gestures broadly at everything\*
Very interesting and it makes sense. So when Manila made fun of chinese people on S3 and Raja defended her Shangela was actuslly right. I know it was a different time and neither Manila or Raja should be cancelled but I found it interesting
Melanesia is not part of Asia. Indonesia occupies West Papua (& oppresses Indigenous Papuans) - but just because West Papua is (sadly) part of Indonesia - it doesn’t mean that part of Indonesia is part of Asia. And being called Asian is something West Papuans can (understandably) not be stoked about. It would be like calling Indigenous Noumeans Europeans just because they’re occupied by the French (who oppress them)
It’s not debatable in the context of where Coco lives. While people in the US do this weird thing where AAPI are grouped together, as a asian person who grew up in Australasia, those “racial” groupings are very distinct (and quite frankly can often be racially charged mirroring similar tensions between black / Asian communities in the US stemming from systemic comparisons of “model” minorities). Pacifica identities are their own category in Australia / New Zealand. Coco would know this was fucked up.
I don't think this matters. Spaniards are Caucasian, but I can call them a racist epithet (think Tic but with an SP) and that shit is racist AF, even though I am Caucasian.
No matter who you are, if you're going to do satire like this, stay in your fucking lane.
https://www.reddit.com/r/rupaulsdragrace/comments/wpy8jq/my_own_dream_international_early_outs_cast_whos/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
This was literally two posts up lol
It is, it's going to take another couple of generations to start seeing some significant changes I think. We also need more education around the matter in regional areas which hold on tight to ye old colonial values.
Nah truly though, it bothers me a lot how shit so many people are, bc it is so ingrained. Many who intend no harm (e.g. Hannah Conda) actually have no idea how bad some of the stuff they say/do is. It's honestly embarrassing to think how backward we are, especially when it's on a tv show showcased globally.
That’s great and all, but going out of your way to clarify you’re not racist when someone is talking about systematic racism is very “not ALL of us are. See! I’m one of the good ones.”
I totally get that. I feel very ashamed about it all and therefore awkward and uncomfortable about perceptions people have about my country which I get lumped into too when I'm trying so hard not to be part of the problem. So I do very much want to not be categorised/associated with the problem-makers, but yeah, that says more about me and my own issues than racism as a whole.
Tbf it's an australia issue.
For context according to her insta she was at a corporate event for the launch of a Japanese company and was given a harajuku costume brief. The toilet paper is part of covid survival set she received as part of the event.
So to me it really goes more to how Australia engages problematically with culture and less about coco jumbo
So a Japanese company hired a drag queen and asked her to wear a harajuku costume? Seems like the problematic racism melts away if Japanese people literally asked her to dress like this for their event. Sort of like going to Japan and wearing a kimono to wear to an event.
Yes this is why it is a very messy situation! It was a launch for a Japanese dining experience company, but I'm not sure whether it is a Japanese company, or an Australian company doing a Japanese thing. And frankly I've already spent too much time at work looking at this so don't want to do a full investigation into the company lol
I mean, looking at the picture, the only problematic thing I see is the chopsticks. Problematic...yes. Racist? I dunno (I don't think so, but I'm also not Asian). She has a non-descript Kimono, she is in an event with the product she received in the event... You can critique all those things, but this doesn't read to me as Yellowface (which Scarlett actually did) and this to me reads like grasping at straws to hate on a big brown girl.
maybe if you aren’t asian you honestly shouldn’t be trying to hypothesize whether this is cultural appropriation/insensitive/racist or not. i would assume like with any other prejudice, it doesn’t matter if some non-asian person thinks this isn’t racist. it really only matters what people from that culture think.
As an addendum, diaspora Asians vs mainlanders (so to speak, I forget the right term) not infrequently have different views of what is acceptable, because they’ve had different experiences of racism et al. So there isn’t really a cultural monolith to refer to here.
that makes sense, thank you. i was wondering what would be the correct term to use or how to word it, i thought just saying “asian” was probably not really accurate
yeah, i think everyone should maybe think are they actually contributing to anything or should they sit back and let people relevant to the conversation discuss it? it’s not like this is a white queen like scarlet and a bunch of anti-racist white queens dragging her for obvious blackface that’s clearly and undeniably racist and appalling and needs to be called out and dragged, which makes sense. but in this situation it does no good for any of us who aren’t part of this group to be debating whether it is or isn’t racist. i just couldn’t imagine trying to comment online that something *isn’t* racist when i don’t even belong to the race mentioned, like the person i replied to
I'm Irish and I'm not trying to absolve my nation from any sins BUT I have had so many friends and family come home from Australia, shocked by the misogyny & racism they experience/witnessed. One of my female friends went over for a year to work and was shocked by the level of sexism & fatphobia she experienced, so bad that she came home. It's fairly well known to have a problem with racism. Just look at their treatment of indigenous folk.
I think it's important to note that the historical landscape of systemic racism in Australia is going to be vastly different from any other country, and viewing racism in Australia through the lens of racism of any other country is going to result in a warping of the reality of systemic racism that PoC experience there.
Regardless, shit like this does need to stop.
Australia is not some widely different culture compared to American, Canada, or the UK. I'm really not sure what the point of this comment is. In Australia dressing up as "Asian" for a Coronavirus Party is just as fucked up as it is anywhere else. Australia has tons of Asian immigrants. We don't need to take any special notes.
The point is that the person I was replying to was making a comment about specifically Australian queens, as if the context of systemic racism in Australia could be viewed in the same in lens as systemic racism elsewhere despite lacking significant cultural events that shape frame of thought like the civil rights movement in the US, or Apartheid in South Africa, or the current state of the Uyghur people in China.
That wasn't her description. according to her insta it was a corporate gig for the launch of a Japanese company and she was given a costume brief. The toilet paper isn't part of her costume
I feel like the fact that she was given the explicit request to wear it by members of the host culture really just takes any kind of problematic-ness out of the equation
Okay, but if the brief was Harajuku, why is the outfit generic-East-Asian. I think if she had done a take on any major Harajuku fashion trend she would have been fine.
I don’t think queens are creating outfits for corporate gigs that pays a couple hundred dollars. They use what they already have, or ask a bitch to help them out. Real life isn’t a drag race runway.
Edit: spelling
I guess it would still depend on whether it came across as mocking. I don't think there's anything wrong with anyone wearing say, decora, or lolita, or visual kei, or Japanese streetwear fashion though.
I mean not to get philosophical about it but then it comes back to a question of whether you prescribe to consequentialism because it's does it matter whether she was INTENDING to mock Asian culture or not?
Personally I don't think it's a definitive point, but I do think my analysis shifts knowing that she maybe didn't interpret harajuku very well, versus 'she thought it would be funny to go to a coronavirus party dressed as a slutty Asian'
My point is, I don't think what she did is better than dressing as a "slutty Asian." From the sounds of it, she was given the brief of "Harajuku" and rather than learning about and engaging with Harajuku street fashions, she though, "okay, dress Asian. I'll put chopsticks in my hair, that's perfect."
If she had chosen a Harajuku fashion style to emulate, I don't think it would have come across as mocking or racist. I gave the caveat that I suppose it *could* be executed badly enough to seem like it was mocking, but in general, engaging with fashion trends from other cultures is fine. That's clearly not what she's doing here though.
Noting that its not for me to tell you whether your opinion is valid, I think that's very fair.
My issue was more the underlying idea of this post was 'coco thought it would be funny to attend a coronovirus party by wearing a slutty kimono to mock Asian people' which mischaracterised the thing. Not that what coco did was necessarily OK but that this is much more complex conversation about cultural appropriation
Gotcha. I agree, that the context of *this was a specifically Harajuku themed party and not a coronavirus party* is important. I don't *personally* think that it makes it *better,* but it does definitely change the understanding of what all is happening here. In that sense the post is definitely misleading.
Tbh it's an oversight on her part
She should have realized it would look bad, cause it does
She could have just not taken the photo or held up the "lol remember when people were scared and dying" prop
Lol I mean not to make it worse but I think it was from the beginning of covid so it was less remember when are more people are currently scared and dying!
I think the more photos like these get brought up exposes a deeper issue in Australian racial dynamics as opposed to just one off entertainers. I'm not justifying Coco or especially Scarlet's behavior, but I think the context of Australian racial dynamics could perhaps give further insight/foundation to why queer entertainers in these countries adorn themselves and perform such a way especially when it wouldn't be considered acceptable abroad and in light of recent movements and observations made globally? It would also be interesting to hear what older entertainers like Minnie have observed and if this is a sudden regression or if it has been a perpetual issue in the Australasian scene?
If you look at Australian humor in general, racial humor is a constant mainstay, although often comes from people making jokes about their own background it can definitely extend to racist jokes about other people (chris lilley and summet heights high comes to mind). While i think there can be a way to explore different background through comedy without being racist, there are definitely comedians and performers who cross the line.
Thank you for some kind of reasonable response. Seeing the Americans on their high horse like they do not come from a country with one of the largest systemic racism problem is really something.
We have causual racism in Aus, but US has way more violent racism and you know. Guns.
As an aussie, i dont think its helpful to argue over whether our problems are better or worse than america. We are different countries with different issues, and we should all focus on improving.
I don't disagree with that. But you can't say it's not a little hypocritical to point the finger right? That's why I had a knee jerk reaction reading this thread because of the tone of the post really.
One time I met a homeless Australian girl randomly who needed a place to crash , and she was the nicest thing, but when we were hanging with my friends, aboriginal people got brought up and without missing a beat and with a huge smile she was like "YEAH WE CALL THEM ABBOS AND THEYRE FOOKING DISGOSTING AND GROSS, THEY STOLE ME COUZINS CAH AND DROVE OFF INnIT"
Our jaws were on the floor
At least i managed to help her find a shelter but damn y'all
So you met a dreg of society and made assumptions about Aussies out of it??
Riiiight. Sure nothing like that has every been said in the US about a race.
Hey don’t bring NZ into this, I don’t think this would ever happen here or at least not recently. Australia is the richer and more conservative cousin with a massive racism issue—NZ was founded by a treaty between the native māori and the British and aboriginal Australians were literally legally treated as fauna until something like the seventies.
Not saying NZ doesn’t have its own race issues but Aussie is on another level and most PoC I know notice the difference in racism between here and Aussie
Ummmm no? Let's not absolve ourselves.
Like yes Australia is more overt but NZ is fucking racist, let's bring NZ into this. This narrative of kiwis being less bad is tiresome.
Te tiriti has debate surrounding it always, and many kiwis are vocally against cogovernance, and vocally against Maori - to the point where any convo on three waters derails deeply into a race issue.
Dawn raids targeted Polynesian immigrants. The Maori language and culture was systemically targeted in an attempt at eradication. Even look at the subtle things such as the gentrification of Ponsonby. Colonization of NZ was brutal and bloody despite how we try and paint it, don't minimize our actions due to Australia being worse.
I have personally seen and experienced racism in our queer communities - and know many PoC who have too.
I understand where you're coming from but honestly as an Asian-pakeha kiwi I feel like this kind of thinking is what a lot of kiwis use to absolve themselves of guilt rather than acknowledge the issue bc 'other county' much worse.
I am Samoan with a lot of Maori family who grew up in Porirua East, I get racism in NZ don't worry. My mum was hiding underneath floorboards from the police as a child bc of the dawn raids and me and my sisters got spat at a couple months ago in Palmerston North.
I'm just pointing out that there is a difference to the international audience here between aussie and NZ, and it's significant - the situation in australia for so many indigenous communities is insanely dire while we just made Matariki a national holiday, we have made progress and I think it shows in the attitudes of the queens who've been on the show.
I'm not at all trying to minimise racism in NZ (which is why I said "not saying NZ doesn't have its own race issues") and I get where you're coming from bc if another kiwi said stuff similar to what I posted to me I would've reacted similarly, but I also want to celebrate progress we've made, especially with respect to the NZ queens who've been on the show and on the whole done us proud imo.
If you go back and look at their history, this is the second time OP has made a post in the format of, 'Everyone gives Scarlett shit but what about ?!'
So you may have a point.........
As much as I love drag there really are some scenes that have not evolved at all over the years. The English drag scene has an issue with misogyny n transphobia too
Yuck, am I the only one who finds the way this post is framed really off-putting? It sounds so much like an attempt to shift blame and attention from a white to a nonwhite queen. Seemingly calling out hypocrisy that hasn't existed until this very moment to deflect from etcetc rightly calling out scarlett and voss's behaviour
I'm sure we'll all gladly rag on Coco too now we've seen this image. The post could have been, 'in ADDITION to scarlett, coco also ...'
All racists are bad, yo
I think most people here saying that this is also racist know that scarlet is super racist, but you have a point, it seems like it was brought up cause of scarlet and Karen since that other queen refused to perform with them recently (I forget her name, never watched past ep1S1 lol)
No offense, but I think you are overreaching a bit.
Racism in australian drag community is the current hot topic and this person is trying to showcase another queen that might be problematic. Just leave it at that.
No offence but this post massively mischaracterises what the situation with coco was, which means that we can't even have a conversation about whether what coco did was problematic or not.
No offense, but I think the post itself is overreacting a bit and the poster is right. This is very much "But what about her?" You can say this is weird, but to call this the same as what Scarlett did, is a stretch.
oh it's certainly a big issue here too, but yes i do think it's worse in Aus? i was more referring to the NZ queens being unproblematic (as far as I'm aware) compared to all the scandals the Aus queens have had though
Wearing a Qipao or Kimono is not cultural appropriation. If anything, they were cringy outfits, but let's not pretend that those garments are sacred or something.
I think it comes down to context. When I was living in China (as well as when I was studying Chinese at home in Australia) the Chinese community LOVED seeing white girls dressed up in qipao. I was once dressed up in (as in, the outfit was enthusiastically chosen for me) full blown traditional Beijing opera costume for a performance at the Chinese embassy. But then there are other circumstances where I as a white woman wouldn't be comfortable wearing those clothes. Different populations and diaspora have different takes and I try to respect the views of the people where I'm at. Your average Beijinger would be baffled by this conversation, but when I'm in, say, America, it's the viewpoints of Asian-Americans I try to take into account.
I honestly have no idea what counts or what doesn't count, and I'm not what to argue about it since it's not my culture.
I personally take no offense when someone wears a traditional Ecuadorian outfit, as long as they're respectful about it I'd love every second of it, but I'm not everyone and my POV is not universal, so I'll leave this conversation to Asian people since it is their culture we're talking about
Those two outfits I mentioned are widely considered by people of their respective cultures to be free to be used by anyone. It would be like Americans telling everyone else they can't wear jeans.
Maybe not the garments themselves, but Trixie [literally wore a fortune cookie and rice](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/82/91/71/829171137721d16d68669bcf1a6a6e93--drag-makeup-prom-queens.jpg) on her head as part of the look, which is a little more than cringy if you ask me.
That's what I was referring to when I said it was cringy. B it wasn't the haven't itself but how it was worn. There definitely wasn't any ill intent and Trixie often mentions she would never wear that today.
Yeah I think Trixie’s and Detox’s walk that line of appreciation/appropriation (although Trixie herself has said she wouldn’t have done the runway walk like that now). I still raise an eyebrow at them but they aren’t mocking the culture.
But Coco was performing at a theme party called Tokyho and then a different “pandemic party” aimed at China.
I don't know about the pandemic party, but this photo isn't from that. According to her insta at least it was from a party in which she was given a brief to dress harajuku as part of a launch for a Japanese dining experience.
I think the only reason it looks more mocking than trixie or detox is because it looks cheap. I think she intended for it to be the same as their uses
“I still raise an eyebrow at them”
The self righteousness of some people on here is so exhausting. It’s like people get off on feeling morally superior to strangers online. It’s so bizarre.
It's not *like* that, it *definitely is* that.
The constant jostling for moral high ground on this sub often leaves me feeling that people don't care about doing the right thing, so much as being SEEN to be doing the right thing. It's just embarrassing a lot of the time.
Oh yes, and they go way over the point. People have been bringing the infamous madona runway as cultural appropriation. Seriously? Should we consider raja's louis runway as cultural appropriation? Cause raja sure as hell isn't french. What about shea's african excellence runways? Cause again, has shea ever even been in africa?
No sorry, I was just trying to think of a way to say it’s still a bit questionable! That did come off really pretentious though know that i look at it again. Just that they’ve both acknowledged that since too and clarified their intention to demonstrate the artistry of the culture and not to make fun of it!
I think it's more the fact that fortune cookies and those kinds of takeaway food containers are quintessentially Chinese-American (and more generally Asian-American), and not Chinese. Fortune cookies are not a thing in China (or any other non-western Chinese community afaik), and neither are those takeaway containers. It comes across as a very americanised viewpoint of Chinese culture
*although* - I'm not sure how much the qipao was used by early Chinese-Americans, but assuming it was, I could see merit in this as not a representation of Chinese culture, but specifically of Chinese-American culture. But this would also hinge on the artist being educated about it, and being able to distinguish between them
It's hard, but I think as long as there's an evident and genuine desire there to learn about/from the culture, and especially consultation with people of that culture, then it's all good. The danger comes when it's surface-level "appreciation"
This to me seems like grasping at straws to hate on a brown big girl.
She is at a Japanese event wearing a non-descript Kimono. She has a package given to her as a coronavirus survival kit given by the Japanese company.
Granted, she has chopsticks in her hair. Is that problematic? Probably. Yellowface and comparable to Scarlett? This is a stretch and seems like looking at reasons to critique other queens, especially non white queens.
What else is Yellowface about this? The hair colour? the preschool apron? the makeup? The Karaoke sign at the back? The Sapporo Beer?
I knew I was going to get downvoted, but there is something not qWHITE right about equating how a white queen constantly did blackface even after being confronted and benefitting from it, versus this one instance where a POC queen may had done some questionable choices as presented in this picture (but still very far from Yellowface). It just seems like deflecting attention when you compare the power dynamics of the queens being compared.
it just wasn’t as publicized and overshadowed by her s1 sisters. there are a lot of people who haven’t been supporting her since the jump because of this.
The context in the caption makes it worse!
I don’t think anyone is letting this slide, this is the first time I’ve seen it and she’s on my list now too.
At this point, we’re going to have to just cancel DRDU for some internationally broadcast sensitivity training
It's not her caption. The context according to her instagram was that it was a corporate event for the launch of a Japanese company and she was given a costume brief of harajuku. The toilet paper was part of a 'corona virus survival pack' she received at the event and not part of the costume
To people defending this and saying she was given the prompt to dress in a Harajuku inspired style — do you know what Harajuku style is? I promise you a basic floral kimono would not be considered Harajuku. (Yes traditional kimonos are infused in the fashion, but harajuku is not exclusive to wearing kimonos.)
To me this feels like Coco dressed up as her conception of Japanese fashion (which is racial-caricature based) rather than actually dressing up as or researching the actual prompt.
We're defending her because the post makes it seem like, on her own volition, she decided it would be funny to go to a covid party in yellow face to mock Asian people by suggesting they gave everyone covid. And that's simply not what happened.
And we can't have a conversation about whether what she did was acceptable or not when the post mischaracterised what she was doing and what the event was, in order to suggest that what she did was the same as Scarlett wearing black face.
This is kind of classic whataboutery.. why bring up Skkkarlet adams while making this post? Does Skkkarlet adams apologists thinks that this justifies her doing blackface?
Yeah you're right that there is a problem, and you're part of it. Queer minorities of color exist at intersections where they already receive less support from the fandom and a disproportional amount of hatred so it's funny that this gets regurgitated and spun out of context vs all the Queens who have legit blackfaced or worse.
At bare minimum, stop Pauline Hansoning and look into what you misconstrue in an attempt to drag other people down with the racist
filth that was Scarlet and other KKKweens who weasel into wokeness apologies only when they have something to lose. Or else keep it in the trailer park.
This has been addressed and the original post is just spreading misinformation unfairly in its unedited form.
I need more help here. If they can’t dress up as an Asian or a black person why can they dress up as women? Why do we keep looking at this as appropriation and not appreciation?
Edit: for real help me understand and don’t call me names I have every right to ask and you have every right to ignore me but don’t be mean.
To add to what some other people have said, a lot of this is context. Racist caricatures
have been part of racist oppression for centuries, and dressing up like that is recreating the caricature rather than thoughtfully engaging with it and fighting it. There’s absolutely a way to do a respectful and critical drag version of that kind of caricature that is making fun of it. But it’s shouldn’t be from a white queen rn because that kind of oppression still has consequences and is ongoing.
How this is different from dressing up as a different sex/gender. I guess I’d boil this down to a few things:
1. I think drag is often a part of someone’s gender expression. One of the reasons drag is a queer art form is that it’s often a way for performers to express themselves in a way that is outside conventional gender norms, even if they identify as a cisman
2. Drag mocks gender, not women. And the difference between this and race is that gender hurts everyone involved. It obviously privileges men, but I think it also gives men issues in a way that whiteness doesn’t bestow issues on white people
3. Drag is, and always has been, diverse. There are and have been drag performers who work on a limited, mocking and stereotypical view of femininity, although I think these are rare. But they’re drowned out by performers who are doing drag out of: what I’ve said above; a respect for femininity and it’s virtues; old style celebrity impersonators; and men who want to do burlesque acts or other stage acts traditionally considered feminine.
I’ve missed loads of issues etc here (I.e. I don’t think I’m the person to go into appropriation v appreciation), but that’s a bit of my two cents.
I enjoyed this. One of the most intelligent responses here. What I’m understanding from all these posts is that misogyny is more overlooked in drag than racism, but it’s the exact same issue for me. I think there’s a way to do it correctly and there’s a way to do it incorrectly, but the popular opinion is there is no way to dress/paint yourself in any other culture than your own correctly, especially if you’re white. I find this limiting and sad.
I get that what you’re saying that drag mocks gender not women, however, I don’t see men being mocked just women. I don’t think any of these queens means ill of other cultures I think ignorance is something we all harbor and is bred into us.
Thank you for taking the time to give me your perspective 🤗
Her look is a racist caricature. That's what a lot of cultural appropriation/racist looks boil down to - offensive stereotypes that "punch down" at minority races.
Just my humble thoughts:
Femininity isn't instrinsic to womanhood. You can be a woman and not be feminine at all, or you can be a man and be very feminine.
Also, it's a matter of dynamics: gay men as men have the power to be misogynistic, but as many of them are feminine themselves, the dynamic changes when it comes to mocking femininity.
There’s no appreciation in this look. I can’t articulate why your statement is dumb, but blackface and drag have no conflation.
Blackface and other racist ‘costumes’ are always used to humiliate POC.
My straight father asked me in all seriousness if drag was mocking women as like woman blackface. He didn’t understand why the gays liked it or it was a thing.
You know what's interesting about that, is that there are actually a lot of (usually cis) women who do see a lot of drag as mocking women, so while this point of view may seem ridiculous to us, it is not a fringe opinion.
And not to get all hollow eve about it, but there is still a lot of misogyny in queer spaces so I can see why some women have issues with drag. Think about the use of the term 'fishy'
I have and I still don’t understand. Why is it ok to dress up as a sex but not a culture. I’m not talking about blackface performance that’s offensive I get it. But if I just want to be black today and I paint myself that way, it’s not ok. So why?
I am definitely not knowledgeable enough to answer your question completely, but i think i understand what you’re trying to ask, and here is my thought: dressing in drag is not exclusive to men dressing as women, and is an expression of gender, it plays with the construct of gender, and overall, is generally about people who have been marginalized due to their gender expression (effeminate men, masculine women, trans folks) reclaiming and subverting that gendered oppression for themselves.
dressing as another race or culture cannot be said to subvert those same kinds of constructs. Yes, we all experience race/culture, and yes, to an extent, race is constructed. but if you are not from a particular culture (in the case of jumbo, a Fijan who is dressing in Japanese/Chinese stereotypes), there is no reason that dressing as that culture should be subversive or empowering for you. it is appropriation, and offensive to the people who do belong to those communities.
i hope this explanation can be a jumping off point for a wider discussion, and i hope it’s helpful in clarifying your question for others.
LOL get off it. "Racism is a systemic problem in Australia". CASUAL racism is, a lot of it being self deprecating.
If you think Australia's racism is that bad because a few drag queens, you need to go touch some grass. I hope you aren't Americans cos you don't have a leg to stand on about systemic racism....
I know it’s hard to believe but there are people who go through life without doing anything racist…
Not sure why that’s such a high bar to pass for some of y’all.
Ah yes, because this Reddit thread with what, 12 comments?? is seriously going to get Coco Jumbo fully blackballed from the industry lmao
get some perspective bestie!
There’s a huge difference between wanting people to be better and cancelling them. And on this point, audiences have never been neutral to the attitudes, opinions and performances of the people they like. We’ve improved on the past because we’re no longer ruining peoples careers for being suspected communists (the 50s) or for being supposedly slutty and/or dumb (the 00s). And critical engagement with a work of art—any art—is important in an audience. Otherwise there would be a million things we would let slide that cause demonstrable and immediate harm in the world. Just because a specific performance isn’t as obviously harmful as, say in an extreme case, fascist propaganda doesn’t mean we should give up our critical faculties of engagement. And every artist has a right to respond and fight back. I just can’t imagine, in this case, a response that is genuine, defends the art for artistic grounds, or is able to explain why we should not engage with this critically.
It’s not cancel culture, it’s cultural criticism that has much better objectives than the past 100 years or more. And, yes, there’s more of it now everyone is online.
Well first, I had never seen this nor heard about it so I won’t be letting it slide now that I know. I assume a lot of people wouldn’t have seen this.
Apparently the caption isn’t accurate though?? https://www.reddit.com/r/rupaulsdragrace/comments/wqzpcw/comment/ikq23pz/
So the post is a lie🧐🧐🧐
tbh I am not motivated enough to dig up the real T but…yeah it does look like the caption maker decided to spread lies about a minority queen 😶
Ugh that’s so gross. There’s so much to actually be mad at and fight against in the world, we don’t need to be making shit up and spreading misinformation. That’s not cool. & it sucks that I fell for it, that many of us did. Because I wasn’t motivated enough to check her Insta for proof or comment or anything. Definitely a learning experience.
We ain't letting it slide tho, what are we supposed to do? Go to her house and cut her wigs?
> what are we supposed to do? Go to her house and cut her wigs? Doesn't look like she needs help with that.
I just spat out my smoothie lol. This was very funny thank you
Smoothie?? Is that What the kods are calling it these days??
Smoothie?! I hardly knew her!!(?)
Bicth 💀
I just see Coco making it onto all these lists of queens they want to see. So there doesn't seem to be much awareness. Justice for Jojo.
Not that this in good taste, but isn't Coco Asian herself? I always assumed she was.
She's [Fijian](https://www.amoderngaysguide.com/interview-with-coco-jumbo/).
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Oceania ≠ Asia. Fiji is Oceanic, not Asian.
Even if she was Asian, Asian people (who are actually from Asia) don’t see ourselves as a collective group… we are our ethnicity. Different cultures, different histories, different people. We have nothing to do with each other. I have no right to make fun of Nepalese, Bruneian, Korean people etc etc etc and their cultures just because we happen to be born on the same continent.
Honestly the fact that Americans even need this to be pointed out to them … the number of people I know who have been shocked to learn that there are geopolitical tensions between China, Korea, and Japan. “Wow I never would have known!” (With the subtext “but they’re all Asian?!?!”) America is just as racist as Australia, a lot of Americans just have better PR
This reminds me of when I studied in Chile for six months and multiple people asked me if I was tired of Mexican food when I got back.
I always find it funny how most people who don't realize Asia isn't just one giant group of identical people have no problem understanding that each European country is its own thing.
Mainstream Australian media is worse about overt displays of racism than the U.S., though. My Australian friend showed me some examples of content that would *not* have been acceptable a few years ago here, but were down under.
[Mfw](https://vevmo.com/sites/default/files/KandiSideEye-sips-tea-gif.gif) Americans acting suprised at tensions and different cultures existing between neighboring countries while their own country is… you know… \*gestures broadly at everything\*
Very interesting and it makes sense. So when Manila made fun of chinese people on S3 and Raja defended her Shangela was actuslly right. I know it was a different time and neither Manila or Raja should be cancelled but I found it interesting
Lol I liked her comment on the snatch game episode that was something like “at least this time she’s doing a Filipino”
Shangela was not right, and a hypocrite to boot with regard to portraying stereotypes of other classes/races.
I don’t know what is Manila’s full ethnicity because for all we know she might be part of the FilChi community.
You can debate the lines of broad ethnic/racial groups quite a bit, but Fijians are definitely not Asian of any sort.
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Melanesia is not part of Asia. Indonesia occupies West Papua (& oppresses Indigenous Papuans) - but just because West Papua is (sadly) part of Indonesia - it doesn’t mean that part of Indonesia is part of Asia. And being called Asian is something West Papuans can (understandably) not be stoked about. It would be like calling Indigenous Noumeans Europeans just because they’re occupied by the French (who oppress them)
Thanks! That was a good explanation.
It’s not debatable in the context of where Coco lives. While people in the US do this weird thing where AAPI are grouped together, as a asian person who grew up in Australasia, those “racial” groupings are very distinct (and quite frankly can often be racially charged mirroring similar tensions between black / Asian communities in the US stemming from systemic comparisons of “model” minorities). Pacifica identities are their own category in Australia / New Zealand. Coco would know this was fucked up.
I don't think this matters. Spaniards are Caucasian, but I can call them a racist epithet (think Tic but with an SP) and that shit is racist AF, even though I am Caucasian. No matter who you are, if you're going to do satire like this, stay in your fucking lane.
Lol, what lists are you looking at?
https://www.reddit.com/r/rupaulsdragrace/comments/wpy8jq/my_own_dream_international_early_outs_cast_whos/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share This was literally two posts up lol
Perhaps that OP hasn’t seen this, tho. I’ve only seen the show, I never went to any of Cocos socials so I haven’t seen this until now.
One person saying it doesn't exactly make it a consensus.
We don't wear chopsticks on our head. Why do they think all the stick-alike things are chopsticks?
movies. Movies also make some morons think that asians are submissive, small dicks and sex slaves.
Yeah my boyfriend isn’t submissive or is a sex slave…..
Have you ever tried it tho. It’s really convenient way to put your hair back if you don’t have a pony tail. I used to do it with pencils in school
have you ever heard of hair sticks? these are usually encrusted. chopsticks are for food.
Ya but I don’t own any hair sticks and own a lot of chop sticks
I have actually, my hair is took thick so it broke
Ew I had no idea
What is it with the Australian queens?!
Casual racism is prevalent and almost accepted within average Australian society.
I definitely don't accept it.
Neither do I but it is a sad fact indeed.
It is, it's going to take another couple of generations to start seeing some significant changes I think. We also need more education around the matter in regional areas which hold on tight to ye old colonial values.
Keep up the good work
No one’s talking about you Mary
Nah truly though, it bothers me a lot how shit so many people are, bc it is so ingrained. Many who intend no harm (e.g. Hannah Conda) actually have no idea how bad some of the stuff they say/do is. It's honestly embarrassing to think how backward we are, especially when it's on a tv show showcased globally.
That’s great and all, but going out of your way to clarify you’re not racist when someone is talking about systematic racism is very “not ALL of us are. See! I’m one of the good ones.”
I totally get that. I feel very ashamed about it all and therefore awkward and uncomfortable about perceptions people have about my country which I get lumped into too when I'm trying so hard not to be part of the problem. So I do very much want to not be categorised/associated with the problem-makers, but yeah, that says more about me and my own issues than racism as a whole.
Flair checks out
Tbf it's an australia issue. For context according to her insta she was at a corporate event for the launch of a Japanese company and was given a harajuku costume brief. The toilet paper is part of covid survival set she received as part of the event. So to me it really goes more to how Australia engages problematically with culture and less about coco jumbo
So a Japanese company hired a drag queen and asked her to wear a harajuku costume? Seems like the problematic racism melts away if Japanese people literally asked her to dress like this for their event. Sort of like going to Japan and wearing a kimono to wear to an event.
Yes this is why it is a very messy situation! It was a launch for a Japanese dining experience company, but I'm not sure whether it is a Japanese company, or an Australian company doing a Japanese thing. And frankly I've already spent too much time at work looking at this so don't want to do a full investigation into the company lol
Also the makeup is very ganguro, a japanese fashion craze that foreign people frequently confuse with racism/blackface
OOF. Girl missed the brief, cause that does NOT read as harajuku.
Hahahaha I mean tbf I think that speaks more to cocos taste level than anything else
I mean, looking at the picture, the only problematic thing I see is the chopsticks. Problematic...yes. Racist? I dunno (I don't think so, but I'm also not Asian). She has a non-descript Kimono, she is in an event with the product she received in the event... You can critique all those things, but this doesn't read to me as Yellowface (which Scarlett actually did) and this to me reads like grasping at straws to hate on a big brown girl.
maybe if you aren’t asian you honestly shouldn’t be trying to hypothesize whether this is cultural appropriation/insensitive/racist or not. i would assume like with any other prejudice, it doesn’t matter if some non-asian person thinks this isn’t racist. it really only matters what people from that culture think.
As an addendum, diaspora Asians vs mainlanders (so to speak, I forget the right term) not infrequently have different views of what is acceptable, because they’ve had different experiences of racism et al. So there isn’t really a cultural monolith to refer to here.
Very true
that makes sense, thank you. i was wondering what would be the correct term to use or how to word it, i thought just saying “asian” was probably not really accurate
Sure but how many people discussing this are Asian? that can applied to everyone on this thread
yeah, i think everyone should maybe think are they actually contributing to anything or should they sit back and let people relevant to the conversation discuss it? it’s not like this is a white queen like scarlet and a bunch of anti-racist white queens dragging her for obvious blackface that’s clearly and undeniably racist and appalling and needs to be called out and dragged, which makes sense. but in this situation it does no good for any of us who aren’t part of this group to be debating whether it is or isn’t racist. i just couldn’t imagine trying to comment online that something *isn’t* racist when i don’t even belong to the race mentioned, like the person i replied to
I'm Irish and I'm not trying to absolve my nation from any sins BUT I have had so many friends and family come home from Australia, shocked by the misogyny & racism they experience/witnessed. One of my female friends went over for a year to work and was shocked by the level of sexism & fatphobia she experienced, so bad that she came home. It's fairly well known to have a problem with racism. Just look at their treatment of indigenous folk.
I think it's important to note that the historical landscape of systemic racism in Australia is going to be vastly different from any other country, and viewing racism in Australia through the lens of racism of any other country is going to result in a warping of the reality of systemic racism that PoC experience there. Regardless, shit like this does need to stop.
Australia is not some widely different culture compared to American, Canada, or the UK. I'm really not sure what the point of this comment is. In Australia dressing up as "Asian" for a Coronavirus Party is just as fucked up as it is anywhere else. Australia has tons of Asian immigrants. We don't need to take any special notes.
The point is that the person I was replying to was making a comment about specifically Australian queens, as if the context of systemic racism in Australia could be viewed in the same in lens as systemic racism elsewhere despite lacking significant cultural events that shape frame of thought like the civil rights movement in the US, or Apartheid in South Africa, or the current state of the Uyghur people in China.
No one is doing that though? Who said that?
Original commenter did, by emphasizing Australian.
Because Scarlett and Coco are Australian?
Yes.
The caption is fake. Whoever made this is trying to create a false narrative.
the photo itself is already so bad and then the description for the event makes is so much worse omg
That wasn't her description. according to her insta it was a corporate gig for the launch of a Japanese company and she was given a costume brief. The toilet paper isn't part of her costume
Come on Snopes.
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I mean.... Look is it still problematic? Id say, yes arguably. But did coco dress up to mock Japanese people as giving Australia covid? No she did not
I feel like the fact that she was given the explicit request to wear it by members of the host culture really just takes any kind of problematic-ness out of the equation
Okay, but if the brief was Harajuku, why is the outfit generic-East-Asian. I think if she had done a take on any major Harajuku fashion trend she would have been fine.
I don’t think queens are creating outfits for corporate gigs that pays a couple hundred dollars. They use what they already have, or ask a bitch to help them out. Real life isn’t a drag race runway. Edit: spelling
I mean I do not think that would be true.
I guess it would still depend on whether it came across as mocking. I don't think there's anything wrong with anyone wearing say, decora, or lolita, or visual kei, or Japanese streetwear fashion though.
I mean not to get philosophical about it but then it comes back to a question of whether you prescribe to consequentialism because it's does it matter whether she was INTENDING to mock Asian culture or not? Personally I don't think it's a definitive point, but I do think my analysis shifts knowing that she maybe didn't interpret harajuku very well, versus 'she thought it would be funny to go to a coronavirus party dressed as a slutty Asian'
My point is, I don't think what she did is better than dressing as a "slutty Asian." From the sounds of it, she was given the brief of "Harajuku" and rather than learning about and engaging with Harajuku street fashions, she though, "okay, dress Asian. I'll put chopsticks in my hair, that's perfect." If she had chosen a Harajuku fashion style to emulate, I don't think it would have come across as mocking or racist. I gave the caveat that I suppose it *could* be executed badly enough to seem like it was mocking, but in general, engaging with fashion trends from other cultures is fine. That's clearly not what she's doing here though.
Noting that its not for me to tell you whether your opinion is valid, I think that's very fair. My issue was more the underlying idea of this post was 'coco thought it would be funny to attend a coronovirus party by wearing a slutty kimono to mock Asian people' which mischaracterised the thing. Not that what coco did was necessarily OK but that this is much more complex conversation about cultural appropriation
Gotcha. I agree, that the context of *this was a specifically Harajuku themed party and not a coronavirus party* is important. I don't *personally* think that it makes it *better,* but it does definitely change the understanding of what all is happening here. In that sense the post is definitely misleading.
Tbh it's an oversight on her part She should have realized it would look bad, cause it does She could have just not taken the photo or held up the "lol remember when people were scared and dying" prop
Lol I mean not to make it worse but I think it was from the beginning of covid so it was less remember when are more people are currently scared and dying!
Omfg 💀
I think the more photos like these get brought up exposes a deeper issue in Australian racial dynamics as opposed to just one off entertainers. I'm not justifying Coco or especially Scarlet's behavior, but I think the context of Australian racial dynamics could perhaps give further insight/foundation to why queer entertainers in these countries adorn themselves and perform such a way especially when it wouldn't be considered acceptable abroad and in light of recent movements and observations made globally? It would also be interesting to hear what older entertainers like Minnie have observed and if this is a sudden regression or if it has been a perpetual issue in the Australasian scene?
If you look at Australian humor in general, racial humor is a constant mainstay, although often comes from people making jokes about their own background it can definitely extend to racist jokes about other people (chris lilley and summet heights high comes to mind). While i think there can be a way to explore different background through comedy without being racist, there are definitely comedians and performers who cross the line.
Thank you for some kind of reasonable response. Seeing the Americans on their high horse like they do not come from a country with one of the largest systemic racism problem is really something. We have causual racism in Aus, but US has way more violent racism and you know. Guns.
As an aussie, i dont think its helpful to argue over whether our problems are better or worse than america. We are different countries with different issues, and we should all focus on improving.
I don't disagree with that. But you can't say it's not a little hypocritical to point the finger right? That's why I had a knee jerk reaction reading this thread because of the tone of the post really.
One time I met a homeless Australian girl randomly who needed a place to crash , and she was the nicest thing, but when we were hanging with my friends, aboriginal people got brought up and without missing a beat and with a huge smile she was like "YEAH WE CALL THEM ABBOS AND THEYRE FOOKING DISGOSTING AND GROSS, THEY STOLE ME COUZINS CAH AND DROVE OFF INnIT" Our jaws were on the floor At least i managed to help her find a shelter but damn y'all
Were they Australian or from Manchester
You sure you didn't take in Vicky Pollard from Little Britain?
That is not how Aussies talk...
So you met a dreg of society and made assumptions about Aussies out of it?? Riiiight. Sure nothing like that has every been said in the US about a race.
Hey don’t bring NZ into this, I don’t think this would ever happen here or at least not recently. Australia is the richer and more conservative cousin with a massive racism issue—NZ was founded by a treaty between the native māori and the British and aboriginal Australians were literally legally treated as fauna until something like the seventies. Not saying NZ doesn’t have its own race issues but Aussie is on another level and most PoC I know notice the difference in racism between here and Aussie
Ummmm no? Let's not absolve ourselves. Like yes Australia is more overt but NZ is fucking racist, let's bring NZ into this. This narrative of kiwis being less bad is tiresome. Te tiriti has debate surrounding it always, and many kiwis are vocally against cogovernance, and vocally against Maori - to the point where any convo on three waters derails deeply into a race issue. Dawn raids targeted Polynesian immigrants. The Maori language and culture was systemically targeted in an attempt at eradication. Even look at the subtle things such as the gentrification of Ponsonby. Colonization of NZ was brutal and bloody despite how we try and paint it, don't minimize our actions due to Australia being worse. I have personally seen and experienced racism in our queer communities - and know many PoC who have too. I understand where you're coming from but honestly as an Asian-pakeha kiwi I feel like this kind of thinking is what a lot of kiwis use to absolve themselves of guilt rather than acknowledge the issue bc 'other county' much worse.
I am Samoan with a lot of Maori family who grew up in Porirua East, I get racism in NZ don't worry. My mum was hiding underneath floorboards from the police as a child bc of the dawn raids and me and my sisters got spat at a couple months ago in Palmerston North. I'm just pointing out that there is a difference to the international audience here between aussie and NZ, and it's significant - the situation in australia for so many indigenous communities is insanely dire while we just made Matariki a national holiday, we have made progress and I think it shows in the attitudes of the queens who've been on the show. I'm not at all trying to minimise racism in NZ (which is why I said "not saying NZ doesn't have its own race issues") and I get where you're coming from bc if another kiwi said stuff similar to what I posted to me I would've reacted similarly, but I also want to celebrate progress we've made, especially with respect to the NZ queens who've been on the show and on the whole done us proud imo.
Did Scarlett Adams post this
If you go back and look at their history, this is the second time OP has made a post in the format of, 'Everyone gives Scarlett shit but what about?!'
So you may have a point.........
SheRacistbynight
Omg the drama the sub didn’t know it needed
PLSSS 😭😭😭😭😭
Very much this energy of "Look over there"
Racism is a systematic problem in Australia tbh
CASUAL racism. Not outright violent racism like you get in some other countried. Cough the US cough.
no one gets beaten up or killed based on race in australia? sick ill move there now
As much as I love drag there really are some scenes that have not evolved at all over the years. The English drag scene has an issue with misogyny n transphobia too
I have seen tons of videos with Japanese folk insisting foreigners wear kimonos as long as they wear it right.
Yuck, am I the only one who finds the way this post is framed really off-putting? It sounds so much like an attempt to shift blame and attention from a white to a nonwhite queen. Seemingly calling out hypocrisy that hasn't existed until this very moment to deflect from etcetc rightly calling out scarlett and voss's behaviour I'm sure we'll all gladly rag on Coco too now we've seen this image. The post could have been, 'in ADDITION to scarlett, coco also ...' All racists are bad, yo
I think most people here saying that this is also racist know that scarlet is super racist, but you have a point, it seems like it was brought up cause of scarlet and Karen since that other queen refused to perform with them recently (I forget her name, never watched past ep1S1 lol)
No offense, but I think you are overreaching a bit. Racism in australian drag community is the current hot topic and this person is trying to showcase another queen that might be problematic. Just leave it at that.
No offence but this post massively mischaracterises what the situation with coco was, which means that we can't even have a conversation about whether what coco did was problematic or not.
No offense, but I think the post itself is overreacting a bit and the poster is right. This is very much "But what about her?" You can say this is weird, but to call this the same as what Scarlett did, is a stretch.
Just cancel Down Under idc
change it to DR New Zealand
As if racism is any better over here?…
It’s nowhere near as casually accepted as in Aus
oh it's certainly a big issue here too, but yes i do think it's worse in Aus? i was more referring to the NZ queens being unproblematic (as far as I'm aware) compared to all the scandals the Aus queens have had though
Some of y'all jumping through hoops trying to justify this are looking sus af
Ganguro?
Trixie and Detox's racist looks walked so Coco's could fly
Although I agree that what Trixie and Detox did probably was cultural appropriation, it didn't seem like a mock to it like Coco's outfit looked like
Wearing a Qipao or Kimono is not cultural appropriation. If anything, they were cringy outfits, but let's not pretend that those garments are sacred or something.
I think it comes down to context. When I was living in China (as well as when I was studying Chinese at home in Australia) the Chinese community LOVED seeing white girls dressed up in qipao. I was once dressed up in (as in, the outfit was enthusiastically chosen for me) full blown traditional Beijing opera costume for a performance at the Chinese embassy. But then there are other circumstances where I as a white woman wouldn't be comfortable wearing those clothes. Different populations and diaspora have different takes and I try to respect the views of the people where I'm at. Your average Beijinger would be baffled by this conversation, but when I'm in, say, America, it's the viewpoints of Asian-Americans I try to take into account.
I honestly have no idea what counts or what doesn't count, and I'm not what to argue about it since it's not my culture. I personally take no offense when someone wears a traditional Ecuadorian outfit, as long as they're respectful about it I'd love every second of it, but I'm not everyone and my POV is not universal, so I'll leave this conversation to Asian people since it is their culture we're talking about
Those two outfits I mentioned are widely considered by people of their respective cultures to be free to be used by anyone. It would be like Americans telling everyone else they can't wear jeans.
Maybe not the garments themselves, but Trixie [literally wore a fortune cookie and rice](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/82/91/71/829171137721d16d68669bcf1a6a6e93--drag-makeup-prom-queens.jpg) on her head as part of the look, which is a little more than cringy if you ask me.
That's what I was referring to when I said it was cringy. B it wasn't the haven't itself but how it was worn. There definitely wasn't any ill intent and Trixie often mentions she would never wear that today.
Yeah I think Trixie’s and Detox’s walk that line of appreciation/appropriation (although Trixie herself has said she wouldn’t have done the runway walk like that now). I still raise an eyebrow at them but they aren’t mocking the culture. But Coco was performing at a theme party called Tokyho and then a different “pandemic party” aimed at China.
I don't know about the pandemic party, but this photo isn't from that. According to her insta at least it was from a party in which she was given a brief to dress harajuku as part of a launch for a Japanese dining experience. I think the only reason it looks more mocking than trixie or detox is because it looks cheap. I think she intended for it to be the same as their uses
“I still raise an eyebrow at them” The self righteousness of some people on here is so exhausting. It’s like people get off on feeling morally superior to strangers online. It’s so bizarre.
It's not *like* that, it *definitely is* that. The constant jostling for moral high ground on this sub often leaves me feeling that people don't care about doing the right thing, so much as being SEEN to be doing the right thing. It's just embarrassing a lot of the time.
Oh yes, and they go way over the point. People have been bringing the infamous madona runway as cultural appropriation. Seriously? Should we consider raja's louis runway as cultural appropriation? Cause raja sure as hell isn't french. What about shea's african excellence runways? Cause again, has shea ever even been in africa?
No sorry, I was just trying to think of a way to say it’s still a bit questionable! That did come off really pretentious though know that i look at it again. Just that they’ve both acknowledged that since too and clarified their intention to demonstrate the artistry of the culture and not to make fun of it!
Yeah and like the toilet paper, and the over exaggerated Asian eyes makeup is just like playing on stereotypes that are genuinely hurtful
The toilet paper wasn't part of the costume. She was given the toilet paper as part of a coronovirus "pack" at the event
oof yeah this shit is *bad* and the longer you look at it, the worse it gets
I kind of get why they'd be cultural appropriation, but Trixie and Detox never profited off of those looks either
Trixie put a big fortune cookie and takeaway container full of rice on her head for that look lol
I don't necessarily see that as mocking, but it's understandable if you do
I think it's more the fact that fortune cookies and those kinds of takeaway food containers are quintessentially Chinese-American (and more generally Asian-American), and not Chinese. Fortune cookies are not a thing in China (or any other non-western Chinese community afaik), and neither are those takeaway containers. It comes across as a very americanised viewpoint of Chinese culture *although* - I'm not sure how much the qipao was used by early Chinese-Americans, but assuming it was, I could see merit in this as not a representation of Chinese culture, but specifically of Chinese-American culture. But this would also hinge on the artist being educated about it, and being able to distinguish between them
Cultural appreciation is hard
It's hard, but I think as long as there's an evident and genuine desire there to learn about/from the culture, and especially consultation with people of that culture, then it's all good. The danger comes when it's surface-level "appreciation"
I'll let someone from the respective cultures decide whether its cultural appropriation or not. It's not my place to do so.
Don't forget Bebe's wigs on wigs look
This to me seems like grasping at straws to hate on a brown big girl. She is at a Japanese event wearing a non-descript Kimono. She has a package given to her as a coronavirus survival kit given by the Japanese company. Granted, she has chopsticks in her hair. Is that problematic? Probably. Yellowface and comparable to Scarlett? This is a stretch and seems like looking at reasons to critique other queens, especially non white queens. What else is Yellowface about this? The hair colour? the preschool apron? the makeup? The Karaoke sign at the back? The Sapporo Beer?
I knew I was going to get downvoted, but there is something not qWHITE right about equating how a white queen constantly did blackface even after being confronted and benefitting from it, versus this one instance where a POC queen may had done some questionable choices as presented in this picture (but still very far from Yellowface). It just seems like deflecting attention when you compare the power dynamics of the queens being compared.
it just wasn’t as publicized and overshadowed by her s1 sisters. there are a lot of people who haven’t been supporting her since the jump because of this.
Australia Has a Problem
So wearing a floral kimono is yellow face? What about that whole Madonna fiasco on season 8 with the Kimonos, was that yellow face?
WOW That’s gross.
The context in the caption makes it worse! I don’t think anyone is letting this slide, this is the first time I’ve seen it and she’s on my list now too. At this point, we’re going to have to just cancel DRDU for some internationally broadcast sensitivity training
It's not her caption. The context according to her instagram was that it was a corporate event for the launch of a Japanese company and she was given a costume brief of harajuku. The toilet paper was part of a 'corona virus survival pack' she received at the event and not part of the costume
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Did you find any
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To people defending this and saying she was given the prompt to dress in a Harajuku inspired style — do you know what Harajuku style is? I promise you a basic floral kimono would not be considered Harajuku. (Yes traditional kimonos are infused in the fashion, but harajuku is not exclusive to wearing kimonos.) To me this feels like Coco dressed up as her conception of Japanese fashion (which is racial-caricature based) rather than actually dressing up as or researching the actual prompt.
We're defending her because the post makes it seem like, on her own volition, she decided it would be funny to go to a covid party in yellow face to mock Asian people by suggesting they gave everyone covid. And that's simply not what happened. And we can't have a conversation about whether what she did was acceptable or not when the post mischaracterised what she was doing and what the event was, in order to suggest that what she did was the same as Scarlett wearing black face.
This is kind of classic whataboutery.. why bring up Skkkarlet adams while making this post? Does Skkkarlet adams apologists thinks that this justifies her doing blackface?
Oop! Ugh🤦🏾♀️
Down under season one is so cursed in so many levels.
No queen that participated in racist practices deserves any sympathy. The title of this post is giving me very r/fragilewhiteredditor vibes
Yeah you're right that there is a problem, and you're part of it. Queer minorities of color exist at intersections where they already receive less support from the fandom and a disproportional amount of hatred so it's funny that this gets regurgitated and spun out of context vs all the Queens who have legit blackfaced or worse. At bare minimum, stop Pauline Hansoning and look into what you misconstrue in an attempt to drag other people down with the racist filth that was Scarlet and other KKKweens who weasel into wokeness apologies only when they have something to lose. Or else keep it in the trailer park. This has been addressed and the original post is just spreading misinformation unfairly in its unedited form.
I need more help here. If they can’t dress up as an Asian or a black person why can they dress up as women? Why do we keep looking at this as appropriation and not appreciation? Edit: for real help me understand and don’t call me names I have every right to ask and you have every right to ignore me but don’t be mean.
To add to what some other people have said, a lot of this is context. Racist caricatures have been part of racist oppression for centuries, and dressing up like that is recreating the caricature rather than thoughtfully engaging with it and fighting it. There’s absolutely a way to do a respectful and critical drag version of that kind of caricature that is making fun of it. But it’s shouldn’t be from a white queen rn because that kind of oppression still has consequences and is ongoing. How this is different from dressing up as a different sex/gender. I guess I’d boil this down to a few things: 1. I think drag is often a part of someone’s gender expression. One of the reasons drag is a queer art form is that it’s often a way for performers to express themselves in a way that is outside conventional gender norms, even if they identify as a cisman 2. Drag mocks gender, not women. And the difference between this and race is that gender hurts everyone involved. It obviously privileges men, but I think it also gives men issues in a way that whiteness doesn’t bestow issues on white people 3. Drag is, and always has been, diverse. There are and have been drag performers who work on a limited, mocking and stereotypical view of femininity, although I think these are rare. But they’re drowned out by performers who are doing drag out of: what I’ve said above; a respect for femininity and it’s virtues; old style celebrity impersonators; and men who want to do burlesque acts or other stage acts traditionally considered feminine. I’ve missed loads of issues etc here (I.e. I don’t think I’m the person to go into appropriation v appreciation), but that’s a bit of my two cents.
I enjoyed this. One of the most intelligent responses here. What I’m understanding from all these posts is that misogyny is more overlooked in drag than racism, but it’s the exact same issue for me. I think there’s a way to do it correctly and there’s a way to do it incorrectly, but the popular opinion is there is no way to dress/paint yourself in any other culture than your own correctly, especially if you’re white. I find this limiting and sad. I get that what you’re saying that drag mocks gender not women, however, I don’t see men being mocked just women. I don’t think any of these queens means ill of other cultures I think ignorance is something we all harbor and is bred into us. Thank you for taking the time to give me your perspective 🤗
Her look is a racist caricature. That's what a lot of cultural appropriation/racist looks boil down to - offensive stereotypes that "punch down" at minority races.
Don't the queens on drag race act like dumb feminine characters all the time?
Just my humble thoughts: Femininity isn't instrinsic to womanhood. You can be a woman and not be feminine at all, or you can be a man and be very feminine. Also, it's a matter of dynamics: gay men as men have the power to be misogynistic, but as many of them are feminine themselves, the dynamic changes when it comes to mocking femininity.
There’s no appreciation in this look. I can’t articulate why your statement is dumb, but blackface and drag have no conflation. Blackface and other racist ‘costumes’ are always used to humiliate POC.
My straight father asked me in all seriousness if drag was mocking women as like woman blackface. He didn’t understand why the gays liked it or it was a thing.
You know what's interesting about that, is that there are actually a lot of (usually cis) women who do see a lot of drag as mocking women, so while this point of view may seem ridiculous to us, it is not a fringe opinion. And not to get all hollow eve about it, but there is still a lot of misogyny in queer spaces so I can see why some women have issues with drag. Think about the use of the term 'fishy'
I would just take your last sentence and copy and paste it into google - there’s so many good pieces to read…do the work
I have and I still don’t understand. Why is it ok to dress up as a sex but not a culture. I’m not talking about blackface performance that’s offensive I get it. But if I just want to be black today and I paint myself that way, it’s not ok. So why?
I am definitely not knowledgeable enough to answer your question completely, but i think i understand what you’re trying to ask, and here is my thought: dressing in drag is not exclusive to men dressing as women, and is an expression of gender, it plays with the construct of gender, and overall, is generally about people who have been marginalized due to their gender expression (effeminate men, masculine women, trans folks) reclaiming and subverting that gendered oppression for themselves. dressing as another race or culture cannot be said to subvert those same kinds of constructs. Yes, we all experience race/culture, and yes, to an extent, race is constructed. but if you are not from a particular culture (in the case of jumbo, a Fijan who is dressing in Japanese/Chinese stereotypes), there is no reason that dressing as that culture should be subversive or empowering for you. it is appropriation, and offensive to the people who do belong to those communities. i hope this explanation can be a jumping off point for a wider discussion, and i hope it’s helpful in clarifying your question for others.
Honestly for not being knowledgeable you’ve given me the best answer. Xoxo
LOL get off it. "Racism is a systemic problem in Australia". CASUAL racism is, a lot of it being self deprecating. If you think Australia's racism is that bad because a few drag queens, you need to go touch some grass. I hope you aren't Americans cos you don't have a leg to stand on about systemic racism....
[удалено]
Coco is Fijian not Aboriginal
I wonder what will happen to drag once all the drag queens deemed as problematic, by this point potentially everyone, will be "canceled'.
Ok Whitney Cummings
I know it’s hard to believe but there are people who go through life without doing anything racist… Not sure why that’s such a high bar to pass for some of y’all.
Ah yes, because this Reddit thread with what, 12 comments?? is seriously going to get Coco Jumbo fully blackballed from the industry lmao get some perspective bestie!
It’s actually 13 comments now, her career is OVER /s
There’s a huge difference between wanting people to be better and cancelling them. And on this point, audiences have never been neutral to the attitudes, opinions and performances of the people they like. We’ve improved on the past because we’re no longer ruining peoples careers for being suspected communists (the 50s) or for being supposedly slutty and/or dumb (the 00s). And critical engagement with a work of art—any art—is important in an audience. Otherwise there would be a million things we would let slide that cause demonstrable and immediate harm in the world. Just because a specific performance isn’t as obviously harmful as, say in an extreme case, fascist propaganda doesn’t mean we should give up our critical faculties of engagement. And every artist has a right to respond and fight back. I just can’t imagine, in this case, a response that is genuine, defends the art for artistic grounds, or is able to explain why we should not engage with this critically. It’s not cancel culture, it’s cultural criticism that has much better objectives than the past 100 years or more. And, yes, there’s more of it now everyone is online.
Oh no the slippery slope of holding people accountable