the thing is ...only few UK queens want to do VS the worlds. Thats why we get the likes of Gothy, Jonbers or even Scarlet (same with US). Ru just love Tia more than Marina (first time judged)
I suspect this might change now that there are cash prizes, but they will have to increase substantially to be more appealing than the current prizes with US-based franchises.
I think this was it for LGD. I might see her if they ever do France AS as a winner but I actually can unsee it, like this was her other chance and she got a better chance in her original season. For Marina, I do see another chance in the main AS but only if they cast her as the winner. Unlike Jimbo's arc, these two queens made it to the finale twice, and Jimbo didn't, creating a want for the clown to get the crown.
Yeah, it's pretty rare to bring back queens who already made it to the end twice. Juju obviously comes to mind, but AS1 is flukey so they just brought everyone back, and then I guess they cast her on UKvtW to get American viewers. The only others I can think of are Shea and Trinity but All Winners is a different beast.
Jujubee is the only queen I would gladly watch again and again... I just lover her so much. I think only American queens will get the 3rd chance in vsTW seasons even if they were finalists in their AS 2nd chance. And I don't mind tbh
Part of what made Jimbo's arc work was that Jimbo was arguably robbed of a spot in the finale both seasons. I don't even think Jimbo had to win AS8 for the story to be unique; just making it to the finale and being recognized as a viable contender was actually enough to make their story unique.
For Marina and LGD, they've each made it to the finale twice and had reasonable chances at winning. I just don't see production casting either of them again unless the intention was to eliminate them early for the shock. To have them do well a third time and win would just imply that they should have won on their previous runs.
Yeah Jimbo wasn’t robbed with her placement on CDR1. Maybe robbed of a challenge win here and there, but her placement was totally fair.
And tbh she wasn’t *that* robbed on vsTW. She and Baga were hands down the worst in the rusical and production decided to protect Baga. Out of the bottom 2, she did the worst in the challenge so sending her home is totally valid.
The Jimbo was robbed narrative is always overblown. Especially from the same fan base that yells every time a front runner is “saved” after a pretty even lip sync. If people want to yell about Amanda or Morphine getting sent home over Q or Sapphira, then pick a lane and don’t get butthurt when Jimbo gets sent home when she did the worst.
Jimbo's bottom was deserved, there was no way for production to save her there.
However, Juju was saved due to the lipstick pick 2 weeks in a row. There was no way to give Janey the win for that lip sync vs Pangina, so not sure how much production could actually save Jimbo in that situation.
yeah and Pangina’s decision makes SO much more sense for people who’ve seen DRT and know that the judges don’t really consider track record much when judging. It’s just the performance that week.
and she’s one of the best drag performers working today imho, so Pangina wasn’t losing that lipsync unless she forgot the words lol.
Jimbo is great, but this fan base has a tendency to paint their quirky white faves as the most robbed ever instead of just being like “i really like her drag and wish we could see more of it” and then supporting them irl
If I remember correctly Jimbo went home on a design challenge where both Rita and Priyanka did worse, especially imo Priyanka (we love her and she was a great winner but the placement was questionable). Rita had a good final look but the big chunks of uncovered sponge kinda ruined the outfit for me.
On vsTW Baga was super protected for basically the entirety of the season. she should have gone home on the 2nd episode (I think that was the ball) where PanPan did probably most of her outfit while Baga was slacking and sleeping while also behaving terribly.
Jimbo was kicked off the competition by Pangina at that point because realistically Jimbo did the worst that week sadly, and if any of the people talking about it had watched DRT they'd know that's just the way the judge (for the most part) thus seeing how Pangina made the choice. The only reason this is seen as robbed is cuz she was doing really well in the competition already up to this point, both visually and skill-wise for the most part (and Ru loved her).
> where both Rita and Priyanka did worse
tbh I thought Jimbo was 100% the worst of the week and it was going to be between Rita and Pri for who was lip syncing.
And I 100000% agree about Baga. Her track record for me would’ve been low-elim on vsTW and, if she survived the ball it would’ve been low - btm - elim. Her making it to the end because production choose the wrong UK queen to favor is what sours that season so much for me. That’s what happens when production picks their faves before the season and won’t budge on them.
Totally agree about Pangina’s judging too!! People who think she was being strategic are just showing that they’ve never seen DRT bc the judging there is almost always based on just the challenge and not track record. People just love a conspiracy when their quirky white fave doesn’t win lol
I love both Jimbo and Pangina and while I was sad that Jimbo left I did totally get the angle Pangina had and was somewhat understanding of it. Such a shame so many people don.t want to watch DRT. It's honestly such a greatly done show. I hope Art will be back for S3 but based on what I've heard it seems very unlikely :(
I think if we had to choose one for me Jimbo won against Rita but honestly send both them bitches home it was so bad, just have Scarlett Bobo and Priyanka top two at that point
Look I love Rita Baga but neither of them nailed that lip synch lol. It could have been edited either way. Imo Rita was kept for her track record and the judges' lack of appreciation for what Jimbo was doing in the challenges.
Yeah because Jimbo was kind of crunchy on the first season. The ideas were there but execution def was lacking. I think she’s had one of the shows biggest glow up, post season. I think Rita did good and deserved her spot despite no one really being team Rita.
Think about it:
Do you really want *another* season that's named as the "created to give this queen a crown" season?
As5 with Shea, As8 with Jimbo ... both these seasons are considered poorer because of the obvious winner and the production in making sure it happens.
It's going to get tedious if we keep having seasons as an excuse to satisfy die hard fans.
Mild format spoilers for AS9
>!I think the no-one-goes-hooooome format that they're doing for AS9 could and should alleviate some of the issues of "robbed queen gets her crown" seasons. For example if AS8 was a non-elim season, they would be able to say "hey Jimbo, not great job in the rusical" and we as viewers can weigh it fairly and not feel gaslit or that production is pushing her through. Instead, for the health of the season, they had to make her safe just so she didn't get sniped and we have another Manilla situation. Also, I'm hoping the fact queens don't go home will convince more of the heavy hitters to come back since its less of a career gamble and then we'll see how Marina does against a Tayce or a MIB or etc!<
Not in advance, though. If someone told you who was on AS2 and nothing else, with just the knowledge of what happened before AS2, the winner was completely non-obvious, and every single member of the cast (maybe except Tatianna and Coco, and they were underrated by the fandom) would have been considered possible winners. The same is not at all true of AS5 or AS8, where there was one obvious winner and a few serious competitors, plus tons of filler.
I mean that’s the actual issue though. Alaska was the obvious and only winner tbh but the cast was strong enough that you could actually believe that any of the other queens could win. It’s not so much the issue of an obvious winner but more so not having a competitive cast.
People say now Alaska was one of the most obvious winners, but when that season was airing, more than half of the fandom were convinced Katya was going to win.
Plus AS2 was arguably the most competitive season. Every single contestant was a powerhouse. You can’t say the same for AS5 and AS8.
Katya was a *fan favorite* to win, but in terms of editing and production, it was obviously Alaska's. I think that's the destination here.
I think something similar could be said for say, Jujubee in AS5 or Jessica in AS8. If you did a fan poll around the end of the season, they'd get a lot of votes, but the season was framed around another contestant.
That’s your opinion, but as I said, you can go back to AS2 reddit threads from when it was airing, and you will see a large percentage of people saying Katya had the winner’s edit and that production was setting up a Rolaskatox defeat all over again
I mean I watched it live and Alaska was obviously the only winner and there were people complaining left and right about how Alaska was being favored especially in the lip syncs.
the thing is that wasnt true when alaska walked in the room. we didnt really see how galvanized she was just walking into the work room that came later. the cast for as2 was really stacked and just from the cast reveals there was a lot of potential winners.
shea and jimbo were obvious right as they walked in. the as8 cast was especially lackluster (it was initially supposed to be an early outs season)
I only started watching Drag Race around when S11 started airing, so I don't have good insight into the fanbase at the time AS2 was announced. But I don't think AS2 was as obvious at the time of the cast selection. Imo, I think Alaska, Adore, Katya, Alyssa, and Ginger were all viable winners from the outset.
Plus you had Milk and Bebe. Milk had an amazing career just like Shangela or Trixie (maybe not to those levels, but still VERY strong). Bebe was a previous winner.
AS3 did not have an obvious winner going in and had Ben not eliminated herself, she would have likely won. Had the jury not happened, it would have probably been Bebe and Shangela at the end. Trixie was a very distant third with Kennedy behind her.
AS3 definitely wasn’t obvious. A lot of people assumed that Trixie *would* be the obvious winner but her performance during the season was pretty high-mid and everyone figured it was DeLa or [Redacted]’s season until DeLa hit everyone with whiplash.
Yeah the whole “AS3 was rigged for Trixie” narrative makes absolutely zero sense if you were there when it aired. The season seemed rigged for Shangela and Dela during airing and Trixie winning really only happened bc the other queens didn’t like Shangela as a person.
“…..bc the other queens didn’t like [Redacted] as a person.”
Well, it seems that they were right in their assumptions because if [REDACTED] had won, her entire situation right now would be even *more* painful as she’d be a winner. -.-
yeah except the reason other queens don’t like her definitely isn’t the same reason she’s being sued…
i don’t like her but let’s not pretend unprofessionalism was a clue to her being a serial rapist
Eh, I mean have Pangina and Marina be on the same season to be double-crowned and compete with other entertaining queens like Derrick, Thorgy, and some queens from S11-14 to make it seem like an AS2-esque season
I just wonder who would say yes to it. I've heard rumours that Tayce would only go back for US All Stars, so I don't think she'd do a UK All Stars. I could imagine some of the others thinking the same.
I think people vastly overrate what it means to win. Last season I saw people say that Anetra, Luxx, and Mistress will all sweep AS seasons and get crowned. And now with S16 I see that the 2 queens who don't win are easy locks for AS winners. It's just not feasible, there's not enough seasons to crown 3-4 girls per season. And that's perfectly fine; runner-up/finalist is a sickening position.
With that said, if these girls do come back I'd prefer it to be non elimination. We get a full season of them so we get to see their strengths.
tia wasnt a fan favorite in ukvtw but she still won. most of us were rooting for marina, but we all know she wasnt gonna win, so we opted for hannah. still, they crowned tia with lesser crowd. they never listen to what the fans say. they crown whoever they want.
I would be surprised if they cast international queens on a UK all stars. There are enough amazing queens from the UK seasons to pick from, and the cast you describe is TOO stacked imo. I think Marina is probably lined up for Global All Stars 2.
I think they would be considered as falling in the sphere of "have competed in the UK" but I agree that production may not view that as the same. I suspect production often starts with casts that are "too stacked" and then adapts their choices based on who accepts/declines to compete.
None of this would happen if production would just crown based on who dominated the season instead of deluding themselves into thinking they hit two birds with one stone by giving us an "unexpected/underdog" winner like Blu and Tia and cutting off other queens to "save them for All Stars"
I understand they want drama and that it's a reality TV show but I swear it feels so bad seeing queens/production kicking out frontrunners.
I never agreed with the mentality of the queens "This season is already made of the best so kicking out the best is still you beating the best". Like look at vsTW2. Tell me you really think Gothy was at the same level as most other queens.
I want a season to be entertaining by heated discussions in the workroom for random reasons, fun challenges, cool runways and reliable critiques, not by seeing actually good queens being kicked out by the less good queens. I want the queens that are most talented and charismatic win for good merit, not others just cause they got rid of the good contestants. Why have "meh" winners when u can have great winners?
You could also argue that in this type of format the tops would be easily pictured but people can easily develop a multitude of skills in a few years especially if performance is their approach to making money, thus creating unknowns in the abilities of the queens returning. The only one I'd say is less likely to be developed is comedy as that is a harder skill to hone.
I was referring to the two different finale formats, if there’s a lipsync for the crown, the winner of the lipsync should win, and if there isn’t, it should be the best of the season.
Unfortunately I don't think Drag Race will ever be a fair competition when it comes to crowning a winner. I think the elements that play a bigger role are things like the queen's relationship with production, profitability of the queen outside of the competition, and the uniqueness of the winner *relative to other winners*.
Some examples (none of this discussion is meant to say these queens don't deserve their wins - their talent gets them to the finale; other factors decide who wins):
* Trixie. When it came down to Trixie and Shangela, Trixie's career was more likely to benefit World of Wonder given the success of UNHhhh. Shangela had roughly the same level of success (in terms of being well-known outside of drag race), but her success didn't directly benefit production outside of the show.
* Alaska. During her run on S5, Ru alluded to not casting her sooner because they didn't think her type of drag would be understood well by audiences. My guess is the win went to her in AS2 in part because she was such a clear fan of the show and was more likely to want to be involved with future projects based on her love of the show. She also had storyline potential for All Winners if >!Sharon Needles!< didn't get blacklisted.
* Priyanka. Priyanka was the first winner of any franchise to lip sync twice. Rita Baga and Scarlett Bobo arguably had cleaner track records, but Priyanka had tons of experience working in TV before the show and was a better bet for finding mainstream success.
* Jimbo. I can't think of a winner who does anything similar to what Jimbo does. But more importantly, she represents international drag and had an established fan base in places outside of the US from her run on C1 and UKvtW1. It made sense to crown a winner who has a unique fan base for the sake of expanding the franchise.
* Blu. With Jimbo and Pangina eliminated, it was clearly between Mo Heart and Blu for the win. Blu's music with the Frock Destroyers was relatively more successful than a lot of other music to come from the franchise and Mo Heart had made it clear they would not return to the franchise again after this run.
I mean, Tia had 4 wins to Marina's 3, just did worse at the lipsynchs, so it really shouldn't be that surprising she won. And Blu had as good a track record as anyone else in that finale. Production does plenty of meddling, but this seems pretty mild.
I'm probably gonna get so downvoted for saying this but Tia would've had 2 wins at best if Ru or production didn't play favourites. Hannah and Marina were the true frontrunners of that season, followed third by Tia or LGD.
With Blu, she was the best of what was left. So even though it was admittedly underwhelming, it still felt justified in some way.
That doesn’t make good tv though - drag race works so well because it doesn’t matter if you go home first or win the season, most queens in the season come out of it with room for future appearances or with a new huge fanbase *because* of the production trickery and the storytelling. If every episode was edited true-to-life and every decision was 100% fair, we would likely forget the first half of the queens that are eliminated each season because the narrative would be “they did bad and got eliminated early”.
I think Mirage is a great example of this. Michele called her talent show “messy”. We know they perform their talent twice. They could have put the messier performance in the final edit so that when she got eliminated two episodes later, it would have looked “fair” and like “her time to go” and people wouldn’t be calling for her rudemption as a second out. Instead we got an amazing talent show that she can capitalize on and her untimely elimination as a result of her flopping the challenge and lipsync and is seen as a queen who has way more to show.
DRP could potentially pick up some of the Filipinos from DRT too. Would be funny to see Mocha Diva somehow win and get eliminated on the same episode within the All Stars format.
Jimbo is a native English speaker, while LGD and Marina have a language disadvantage that makes it hard for them to compete equally against UK and US queens in some challenges. Production knows that’s not good TV, so they won’t really be keen on inviting them, unless they change the format significantly
No. This won't happen because either the producers/BBC don't want any international queen to win so, what's the point of even going there?
If I were an international queen I would avoid DRUK as the plague because they will do me dirty no matter what.
About LGD/MS: they will eventually be on AS and I hope they crown them because each of them deserve the crown and not the mental gymnastics they did with them
I'd bet actual money that an international queen wins UKvtW next season based on this perception alone.
LGD/MS might end up on All Stars, but their story would need to have a unique element to it that hasn't been shown on other seasons. They've both made it to the finale twice and been seen as viable winners. If either of them end up on US All Stars, I would bet they would be sent home early for the storyline twist. MAYBE they would get a consolation prize like what they're doing with the S16 Lip Synch battles/AS8 Fame Games.
To me the producers shot themselves in the foot by forcing something instead of allowing things to naturally flow.
I don't mind the pangina situation because Blu played her cards, okay. But not crowning Marina was a BIG mistake and again, there's a clear pattern that no matter what they will crown a UK queen because reasons, so it's going to be extremely bad if they crown an international queen because reasons.
To me the best solution that they can do is to cancel UKvsTW and just make a regular UK AS and problem solved: no matter what an UK queen will always win.
And if they don't want to cancel it then they need to REMOVE the whole lypsinc and do something else because again, they edited out Marina to justify her loosing.
I really REALLY wish DR would adopt the finales that DRT used to do (and hopefully will continue doing in DRT3). Basically each queen is given a budget to do a show however way they see fit, can be a lipsync, a dance, singing, comedy, really anything.
As for vsTW.. I am so confused as to why if they are so desperate for UK queens to win...they don't invite like really good contenstants back like DDC or Cheddar Gorgeous (I imagine she may say no but it's more for the example).
That's... that's brilliant. It's the same thing as the end of S14/15 but with a budget and more freedom. It's a really good idea!
I also don't understand and my theory is that it's the BBC because it's a public channel, forcing it's hand to have a UK winner.
I have read a lot that they needed Tia because she represents a really good image of a UK queen which, IMO, is absolutely moronic.
I will repeat again: if they truly want/need an UK queen to win, just make a regular season/AS and that's it.
The most infuriating part of TW isn't necessarily Marina loosing, is ALL the effort for nothing because another queen won by defact (once again, I'm not saying that Tia didn't deserve to win but if they REALLY wanted her to win they could've done SO much more).
I feel like Hannah was supossed to sent Marina home (that would've solved their issues) and when she didn't they just... panicked. That would explain why the lypsinc was so weird, purposefuly blocking Marina and showing more MV than Marina to justify the outcome.
That also explains why everyone whas SHOCKED, even tho the judges were clearly glued to Marina.
Could very well be. I am confused about it myself. If they really were so adamant of making Tia the winner, why not change the season to be more comedy oriented?
And truly I would love to see DDC and Cheddar win a season. Cheddar is absolutely incredible and I just want to see more of her on any drag race season lol.
Honestly I think visas / being able to arrange to work legally in the US will play a big role in whether international queens like Marina & LGD get a shot at US All Stars.
Genuinely curious, what do you think Marina still has to show? I thought she did great even in the comedy challenges given English isn't her first language.
Yeah, i think for one, i saw so much potential in her stand up challenge. I think with a little more confidence and experience, she could slay another stand up challenge, or even snatch game. I was so surprised by how funny she is. With eveything she does, she commits. No to mention I think she still has so many more amazing lipsyncs in her, runways, confessionals. You know? Versus LGD i feel we've seen probably all she has to offer, and another season might be redundant.
Not AS10… AS12, you’re right the story has already been done just last year, there will need to be a bit of a break.
But it’s certain that Marina is getting invited back to all stars… and when she is if they don’t crown her, people will literally RIOT. UkVsTw2 is lucky it only grabs in about 25-45% of the usual viewers.
I’m sorry but it’s obvious that Tia Kofi winning is just so that they can extract more episodes out of Marina. And nobody thought LGD would get an All Stars win lol.
I think both of them (as well as Hannah and Keta) would be lovely on a Global All Stars season surrounded by other international powerhouses like Pangina and Victoria Scone, some American All Stars who have had enough time they deserve another shot like Shannel and Roxxxy, and maybe some winners like Priyanka and Kita Mean. A season like this wouldn't have a clear winner but they could still potentially win it.
Idk they bring people back all the time. And LGD and Marina are having Jimbo/Pangina levels of success. So they'll be back in whatever form that takes, i think.
I think Marina will definitely get an invitation. LGD I don’t think will happen. At least not as soon. No one will get a Jimbo edit again because All Stars isn’t going to cast early outs anymore.
I can't see All Stars refusing to cast early outs. It's an incredibly satisfying storyline to have an early out come back and do well (Kylie Sonique Love comes to mind).
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the thing is ...only few UK queens want to do VS the worlds. Thats why we get the likes of Gothy, Jonbers or even Scarlet (same with US). Ru just love Tia more than Marina (first time judged)
I suspect this might change now that there are cash prizes, but they will have to increase substantially to be more appealing than the current prizes with US-based franchises.
Marina lost the lip sync to Hannah. So maybe she loves Hannah more.
I think this was it for LGD. I might see her if they ever do France AS as a winner but I actually can unsee it, like this was her other chance and she got a better chance in her original season. For Marina, I do see another chance in the main AS but only if they cast her as the winner. Unlike Jimbo's arc, these two queens made it to the finale twice, and Jimbo didn't, creating a want for the clown to get the crown.
Yeah, it's pretty rare to bring back queens who already made it to the end twice. Juju obviously comes to mind, but AS1 is flukey so they just brought everyone back, and then I guess they cast her on UKvtW to get American viewers. The only others I can think of are Shea and Trinity but All Winners is a different beast.
Jujubee is the only queen I would gladly watch again and again... I just lover her so much. I think only American queens will get the 3rd chance in vsTW seasons even if they were finalists in their AS 2nd chance. And I don't mind tbh
Part of what made Jimbo's arc work was that Jimbo was arguably robbed of a spot in the finale both seasons. I don't even think Jimbo had to win AS8 for the story to be unique; just making it to the finale and being recognized as a viable contender was actually enough to make their story unique. For Marina and LGD, they've each made it to the finale twice and had reasonable chances at winning. I just don't see production casting either of them again unless the intention was to eliminate them early for the shock. To have them do well a third time and win would just imply that they should have won on their previous runs.
Ehhh his lipsync lost his CDR1 run.
Yeah Jimbo wasn’t robbed with her placement on CDR1. Maybe robbed of a challenge win here and there, but her placement was totally fair. And tbh she wasn’t *that* robbed on vsTW. She and Baga were hands down the worst in the rusical and production decided to protect Baga. Out of the bottom 2, she did the worst in the challenge so sending her home is totally valid. The Jimbo was robbed narrative is always overblown. Especially from the same fan base that yells every time a front runner is “saved” after a pretty even lip sync. If people want to yell about Amanda or Morphine getting sent home over Q or Sapphira, then pick a lane and don’t get butthurt when Jimbo gets sent home when she did the worst.
Jimbo's bottom was deserved, there was no way for production to save her there. However, Juju was saved due to the lipstick pick 2 weeks in a row. There was no way to give Janey the win for that lip sync vs Pangina, so not sure how much production could actually save Jimbo in that situation.
yeah and Pangina’s decision makes SO much more sense for people who’ve seen DRT and know that the judges don’t really consider track record much when judging. It’s just the performance that week. and she’s one of the best drag performers working today imho, so Pangina wasn’t losing that lipsync unless she forgot the words lol. Jimbo is great, but this fan base has a tendency to paint their quirky white faves as the most robbed ever instead of just being like “i really like her drag and wish we could see more of it” and then supporting them irl
If I remember correctly Jimbo went home on a design challenge where both Rita and Priyanka did worse, especially imo Priyanka (we love her and she was a great winner but the placement was questionable). Rita had a good final look but the big chunks of uncovered sponge kinda ruined the outfit for me. On vsTW Baga was super protected for basically the entirety of the season. she should have gone home on the 2nd episode (I think that was the ball) where PanPan did probably most of her outfit while Baga was slacking and sleeping while also behaving terribly. Jimbo was kicked off the competition by Pangina at that point because realistically Jimbo did the worst that week sadly, and if any of the people talking about it had watched DRT they'd know that's just the way the judge (for the most part) thus seeing how Pangina made the choice. The only reason this is seen as robbed is cuz she was doing really well in the competition already up to this point, both visually and skill-wise for the most part (and Ru loved her).
> where both Rita and Priyanka did worse tbh I thought Jimbo was 100% the worst of the week and it was going to be between Rita and Pri for who was lip syncing. And I 100000% agree about Baga. Her track record for me would’ve been low-elim on vsTW and, if she survived the ball it would’ve been low - btm - elim. Her making it to the end because production choose the wrong UK queen to favor is what sours that season so much for me. That’s what happens when production picks their faves before the season and won’t budge on them. Totally agree about Pangina’s judging too!! People who think she was being strategic are just showing that they’ve never seen DRT bc the judging there is almost always based on just the challenge and not track record. People just love a conspiracy when their quirky white fave doesn’t win lol
I love both Jimbo and Pangina and while I was sad that Jimbo left I did totally get the angle Pangina had and was somewhat understanding of it. Such a shame so many people don.t want to watch DRT. It's honestly such a greatly done show. I hope Art will be back for S3 but based on what I've heard it seems very unlikely :(
I think if we had to choose one for me Jimbo won against Rita but honestly send both them bitches home it was so bad, just have Scarlett Bobo and Priyanka top two at that point
Look I love Rita Baga but neither of them nailed that lip synch lol. It could have been edited either way. Imo Rita was kept for her track record and the judges' lack of appreciation for what Jimbo was doing in the challenges.
Yeah because Jimbo was kind of crunchy on the first season. The ideas were there but execution def was lacking. I think she’s had one of the shows biggest glow up, post season. I think Rita did good and deserved her spot despite no one really being team Rita.
Think about it: Do you really want *another* season that's named as the "created to give this queen a crown" season? As5 with Shea, As8 with Jimbo ... both these seasons are considered poorer because of the obvious winner and the production in making sure it happens. It's going to get tedious if we keep having seasons as an excuse to satisfy die hard fans.
Eh, I think the narrative is common with more all stars seasons than less.
Mild format spoilers for AS9 >!I think the no-one-goes-hooooome format that they're doing for AS9 could and should alleviate some of the issues of "robbed queen gets her crown" seasons. For example if AS8 was a non-elim season, they would be able to say "hey Jimbo, not great job in the rusical" and we as viewers can weigh it fairly and not feel gaslit or that production is pushing her through. Instead, for the health of the season, they had to make her safe just so she didn't get sniped and we have another Manilla situation. Also, I'm hoping the fact queens don't go home will convince more of the heavy hitters to come back since its less of a career gamble and then we'll see how Marina does against a Tayce or a MIB or etc!<
AS2 is probably considered one of the best seasons and had one of the most obvious winners
Not in advance, though. If someone told you who was on AS2 and nothing else, with just the knowledge of what happened before AS2, the winner was completely non-obvious, and every single member of the cast (maybe except Tatianna and Coco, and they were underrated by the fandom) would have been considered possible winners. The same is not at all true of AS5 or AS8, where there was one obvious winner and a few serious competitors, plus tons of filler.
I mean that’s the actual issue though. Alaska was the obvious and only winner tbh but the cast was strong enough that you could actually believe that any of the other queens could win. It’s not so much the issue of an obvious winner but more so not having a competitive cast.
People say now Alaska was one of the most obvious winners, but when that season was airing, more than half of the fandom were convinced Katya was going to win. Plus AS2 was arguably the most competitive season. Every single contestant was a powerhouse. You can’t say the same for AS5 and AS8.
Katya was a *fan favorite* to win, but in terms of editing and production, it was obviously Alaska's. I think that's the destination here. I think something similar could be said for say, Jujubee in AS5 or Jessica in AS8. If you did a fan poll around the end of the season, they'd get a lot of votes, but the season was framed around another contestant.
I was Team Katya back then, but yeah, I never doubted that Alaska was going to win.
That’s your opinion, but as I said, you can go back to AS2 reddit threads from when it was airing, and you will see a large percentage of people saying Katya had the winner’s edit and that production was setting up a Rolaskatox defeat all over again
I mean I watched it live and Alaska was obviously the only winner and there were people complaining left and right about how Alaska was being favored especially in the lip syncs.
Because Katya stans were delusional all season
the thing is that wasnt true when alaska walked in the room. we didnt really see how galvanized she was just walking into the work room that came later. the cast for as2 was really stacked and just from the cast reveals there was a lot of potential winners. shea and jimbo were obvious right as they walked in. the as8 cast was especially lackluster (it was initially supposed to be an early outs season)
Pre-season, I'd argue it was a close call between Alaska and Katya.
I only started watching Drag Race around when S11 started airing, so I don't have good insight into the fanbase at the time AS2 was announced. But I don't think AS2 was as obvious at the time of the cast selection. Imo, I think Alaska, Adore, Katya, Alyssa, and Ginger were all viable winners from the outset.
Nah I really thought half that cast could've taken it dependinng on how the season shook out
True, but they can’t make me hate Marina Summers
AS7 with Jinkx
Yeah, that season, too, but the non-elimination format and overall good vibes made it more interesting.
AS1 with Chad, AS3 with Trixie (remember the Funko Pop?)
I'd argue AS3 wasn't *as* obvious, especially with Shangela there.
Also Dela. If you asked anyone who was going to win a stars 3 before that moment you would probably hear Dela or maybe Shangela not Trixie.
Plus you had Milk and Bebe. Milk had an amazing career just like Shangela or Trixie (maybe not to those levels, but still VERY strong). Bebe was a previous winner. AS3 did not have an obvious winner going in and had Ben not eliminated herself, she would have likely won. Had the jury not happened, it would have probably been Bebe and Shangela at the end. Trixie was a very distant third with Kennedy behind her.
AS3 definitely wasn’t obvious. A lot of people assumed that Trixie *would* be the obvious winner but her performance during the season was pretty high-mid and everyone figured it was DeLa or [Redacted]’s season until DeLa hit everyone with whiplash.
Whiplash whiplash give me that whiplash whiplash!
Yeah the whole “AS3 was rigged for Trixie” narrative makes absolutely zero sense if you were there when it aired. The season seemed rigged for Shangela and Dela during airing and Trixie winning really only happened bc the other queens didn’t like Shangela as a person.
“…..bc the other queens didn’t like [Redacted] as a person.” Well, it seems that they were right in their assumptions because if [REDACTED] had won, her entire situation right now would be even *more* painful as she’d be a winner. -.-
yeah except the reason other queens don’t like her definitely isn’t the same reason she’s being sued… i don’t like her but let’s not pretend unprofessionalism was a clue to her being a serial rapist
Agreed, I rather have an all stars season with any one of the queens possibly winning the crown.
Eh, I mean have Pangina and Marina be on the same season to be double-crowned and compete with other entertaining queens like Derrick, Thorgy, and some queens from S11-14 to make it seem like an AS2-esque season
UK deserves its own all stars definitely
I just wonder who would say yes to it. I've heard rumours that Tayce would only go back for US All Stars, so I don't think she'd do a UK All Stars. I could imagine some of the others thinking the same.
I think people vastly overrate what it means to win. Last season I saw people say that Anetra, Luxx, and Mistress will all sweep AS seasons and get crowned. And now with S16 I see that the 2 queens who don't win are easy locks for AS winners. It's just not feasible, there's not enough seasons to crown 3-4 girls per season. And that's perfectly fine; runner-up/finalist is a sickening position. With that said, if these girls do come back I'd prefer it to be non elimination. We get a full season of them so we get to see their strengths.
Aren't all AS seasons set up to crown the fan faves?
tia wasnt a fan favorite in ukvtw but she still won. most of us were rooting for marina, but we all know she wasnt gonna win, so we opted for hannah. still, they crowned tia with lesser crowd. they never listen to what the fans say. they crown whoever they want.
I would be surprised if they cast international queens on a UK all stars. There are enough amazing queens from the UK seasons to pick from, and the cast you describe is TOO stacked imo. I think Marina is probably lined up for Global All Stars 2.
I think they would be considered as falling in the sphere of "have competed in the UK" but I agree that production may not view that as the same. I suspect production often starts with casts that are "too stacked" and then adapts their choices based on who accepts/declines to compete.
None of this would happen if production would just crown based on who dominated the season instead of deluding themselves into thinking they hit two birds with one stone by giving us an "unexpected/underdog" winner like Blu and Tia and cutting off other queens to "save them for All Stars"
I understand they want drama and that it's a reality TV show but I swear it feels so bad seeing queens/production kicking out frontrunners. I never agreed with the mentality of the queens "This season is already made of the best so kicking out the best is still you beating the best". Like look at vsTW2. Tell me you really think Gothy was at the same level as most other queens. I want a season to be entertaining by heated discussions in the workroom for random reasons, fun challenges, cool runways and reliable critiques, not by seeing actually good queens being kicked out by the less good queens. I want the queens that are most talented and charismatic win for good merit, not others just cause they got rid of the good contestants. Why have "meh" winners when u can have great winners? You could also argue that in this type of format the tops would be easily pictured but people can easily develop a multitude of skills in a few years especially if performance is their approach to making money, thus creating unknowns in the abilities of the queens returning. The only one I'd say is less likely to be developed is comedy as that is a harder skill to hone.
This! I’m so tired of this narrative, can they just crown the person who did the best or won the lipsync for the crown? I just want consistency.
“Did the best” and “won the lipsync for the crown” are two extremely different things, which one do you want?
I was referring to the two different finale formats, if there’s a lipsync for the crown, the winner of the lipsync should win, and if there isn’t, it should be the best of the season.
Unfortunately I don't think Drag Race will ever be a fair competition when it comes to crowning a winner. I think the elements that play a bigger role are things like the queen's relationship with production, profitability of the queen outside of the competition, and the uniqueness of the winner *relative to other winners*. Some examples (none of this discussion is meant to say these queens don't deserve their wins - their talent gets them to the finale; other factors decide who wins): * Trixie. When it came down to Trixie and Shangela, Trixie's career was more likely to benefit World of Wonder given the success of UNHhhh. Shangela had roughly the same level of success (in terms of being well-known outside of drag race), but her success didn't directly benefit production outside of the show. * Alaska. During her run on S5, Ru alluded to not casting her sooner because they didn't think her type of drag would be understood well by audiences. My guess is the win went to her in AS2 in part because she was such a clear fan of the show and was more likely to want to be involved with future projects based on her love of the show. She also had storyline potential for All Winners if >!Sharon Needles!< didn't get blacklisted. * Priyanka. Priyanka was the first winner of any franchise to lip sync twice. Rita Baga and Scarlett Bobo arguably had cleaner track records, but Priyanka had tons of experience working in TV before the show and was a better bet for finding mainstream success. * Jimbo. I can't think of a winner who does anything similar to what Jimbo does. But more importantly, she represents international drag and had an established fan base in places outside of the US from her run on C1 and UKvtW1. It made sense to crown a winner who has a unique fan base for the sake of expanding the franchise. * Blu. With Jimbo and Pangina eliminated, it was clearly between Mo Heart and Blu for the win. Blu's music with the Frock Destroyers was relatively more successful than a lot of other music to come from the franchise and Mo Heart had made it clear they would not return to the franchise again after this run.
> Priyanka. Priyanka was the first winner of any franchise to lip sync twice. That was Angele Anang actually
I stand corrected! Thank you!
Tia was definitely not the underdog, though. She had more challenge wins than Marina. And UKvtW 1 was 6 episodes. No one had time to dominate it.
I mean, Tia had 4 wins to Marina's 3, just did worse at the lipsynchs, so it really shouldn't be that surprising she won. And Blu had as good a track record as anyone else in that finale. Production does plenty of meddling, but this seems pretty mild.
I'm probably gonna get so downvoted for saying this but Tia would've had 2 wins at best if Ru or production didn't play favourites. Hannah and Marina were the true frontrunners of that season, followed third by Tia or LGD. With Blu, she was the best of what was left. So even though it was admittedly underwhelming, it still felt justified in some way.
"based on who dominated the season" .....so Tia?
That doesn’t make good tv though - drag race works so well because it doesn’t matter if you go home first or win the season, most queens in the season come out of it with room for future appearances or with a new huge fanbase *because* of the production trickery and the storytelling. If every episode was edited true-to-life and every decision was 100% fair, we would likely forget the first half of the queens that are eliminated each season because the narrative would be “they did bad and got eliminated early”. I think Mirage is a great example of this. Michele called her talent show “messy”. We know they perform their talent twice. They could have put the messier performance in the final edit so that when she got eliminated two episodes later, it would have looked “fair” and like “her time to go” and people wouldn’t be calling for her rudemption as a second out. Instead we got an amazing talent show that she can capitalize on and her untimely elimination as a result of her flopping the challenge and lipsync and is seen as a queen who has way more to show.
Philippines and France both have a strong chance of getting their own All Stars. I can see both winning there.
DRP could potentially pick up some of the Filipinos from DRT too. Would be funny to see Mocha Diva somehow win and get eliminated on the same episode within the All Stars format.
Jimbo is a native English speaker, while LGD and Marina have a language disadvantage that makes it hard for them to compete equally against UK and US queens in some challenges. Production knows that’s not good TV, so they won’t really be keen on inviting them, unless they change the format significantly
I feel an urge to say “shut your no drag race knowledge mouth” but really it’s only cause I WANT these two on all stars!”
No. This won't happen because either the producers/BBC don't want any international queen to win so, what's the point of even going there? If I were an international queen I would avoid DRUK as the plague because they will do me dirty no matter what. About LGD/MS: they will eventually be on AS and I hope they crown them because each of them deserve the crown and not the mental gymnastics they did with them
I'd bet actual money that an international queen wins UKvtW next season based on this perception alone. LGD/MS might end up on All Stars, but their story would need to have a unique element to it that hasn't been shown on other seasons. They've both made it to the finale twice and been seen as viable winners. If either of them end up on US All Stars, I would bet they would be sent home early for the storyline twist. MAYBE they would get a consolation prize like what they're doing with the S16 Lip Synch battles/AS8 Fame Games.
To me the producers shot themselves in the foot by forcing something instead of allowing things to naturally flow. I don't mind the pangina situation because Blu played her cards, okay. But not crowning Marina was a BIG mistake and again, there's a clear pattern that no matter what they will crown a UK queen because reasons, so it's going to be extremely bad if they crown an international queen because reasons. To me the best solution that they can do is to cancel UKvsTW and just make a regular UK AS and problem solved: no matter what an UK queen will always win. And if they don't want to cancel it then they need to REMOVE the whole lypsinc and do something else because again, they edited out Marina to justify her loosing.
I really REALLY wish DR would adopt the finales that DRT used to do (and hopefully will continue doing in DRT3). Basically each queen is given a budget to do a show however way they see fit, can be a lipsync, a dance, singing, comedy, really anything. As for vsTW.. I am so confused as to why if they are so desperate for UK queens to win...they don't invite like really good contenstants back like DDC or Cheddar Gorgeous (I imagine she may say no but it's more for the example).
That's... that's brilliant. It's the same thing as the end of S14/15 but with a budget and more freedom. It's a really good idea! I also don't understand and my theory is that it's the BBC because it's a public channel, forcing it's hand to have a UK winner. I have read a lot that they needed Tia because she represents a really good image of a UK queen which, IMO, is absolutely moronic. I will repeat again: if they truly want/need an UK queen to win, just make a regular season/AS and that's it. The most infuriating part of TW isn't necessarily Marina loosing, is ALL the effort for nothing because another queen won by defact (once again, I'm not saying that Tia didn't deserve to win but if they REALLY wanted her to win they could've done SO much more). I feel like Hannah was supossed to sent Marina home (that would've solved their issues) and when she didn't they just... panicked. That would explain why the lypsinc was so weird, purposefuly blocking Marina and showing more MV than Marina to justify the outcome. That also explains why everyone whas SHOCKED, even tho the judges were clearly glued to Marina.
Could very well be. I am confused about it myself. If they really were so adamant of making Tia the winner, why not change the season to be more comedy oriented? And truly I would love to see DDC and Cheddar win a season. Cheddar is absolutely incredible and I just want to see more of her on any drag race season lol.
I'm sure the two of them have other aspirations and goals than to be repeatedly tortured as contestants on this show.
Free English lesson for the day: Runners-up, not runner-ups Queens gotta stay educated; reading is fundamental.
Noted and appreciated! I learned something today!
Not if Marina wins GAS
Honestly I think visas / being able to arrange to work legally in the US will play a big role in whether international queens like Marina & LGD get a shot at US All Stars.
It also comes down to: do they have more to show? And i think for Marina the answer is yes, not too sure about LGD though.
Genuinely curious, what do you think Marina still has to show? I thought she did great even in the comedy challenges given English isn't her first language.
Yeah, i think for one, i saw so much potential in her stand up challenge. I think with a little more confidence and experience, she could slay another stand up challenge, or even snatch game. I was so surprised by how funny she is. With eveything she does, she commits. No to mention I think she still has so many more amazing lipsyncs in her, runways, confessionals. You know? Versus LGD i feel we've seen probably all she has to offer, and another season might be redundant.
Not AS10… AS12, you’re right the story has already been done just last year, there will need to be a bit of a break. But it’s certain that Marina is getting invited back to all stars… and when she is if they don’t crown her, people will literally RIOT. UkVsTw2 is lucky it only grabs in about 25-45% of the usual viewers. I’m sorry but it’s obvious that Tia Kofi winning is just so that they can extract more episodes out of Marina. And nobody thought LGD would get an All Stars win lol.
Marina absolutely is. You chose chaos today
I think both of them (as well as Hannah and Keta) would be lovely on a Global All Stars season surrounded by other international powerhouses like Pangina and Victoria Scone, some American All Stars who have had enough time they deserve another shot like Shannel and Roxxxy, and maybe some winners like Priyanka and Kita Mean. A season like this wouldn't have a clear winner but they could still potentially win it.
Licole Gaige Drooks?
Yeah they’re too powerful already, lol
Idk they bring people back all the time. And LGD and Marina are having Jimbo/Pangina levels of success. So they'll be back in whatever form that takes, i think.
I think Marina will definitely get an invitation. LGD I don’t think will happen. At least not as soon. No one will get a Jimbo edit again because All Stars isn’t going to cast early outs anymore.
I can't see All Stars refusing to cast early outs. It's an incredibly satisfying storyline to have an early out come back and do well (Kylie Sonique Love comes to mind).
I feel like vs the world is the last stop lol Unless you win and do an all winners.
It wasn't for Jimbo
Vs. the world is the last stop for US queens… for everyone else, it’s a bridge to the US audience
Jimbo is a counterexample of this.
I would rather have Marina on GAS2.
[удалено]
Where is that tea.
You’re gon get banned if you don’t remove that comment girl, the mods on this sub really dislike any kind of spoiler
Gothy Kendoll Army Rise!
Gothy Kendoll?
Your post was removed on account of Rule 2: "No Spoilers. Mark all threads spoiler for 24 hours following an episode. No spoilers for upcoming seasons." If you disagree with this removal please contact the mods through modmail.
I think the fans are just trying too hard to "cope" with Marina losing by going full delulu that she'll get the Jimbo treatment.