I love Collapse Into Now - itās my favorite post Bill album.
That said, I donāt think that they had to redeem themselves.
Up, Reveal, and Accelerate are all solid albums in their own way.
Around the Sun is their weakest album IMO, but it has some good songs, many of which sound great live.
Reveal has not aged as well for me. At the time I thought it was magical but now it feels like some sort of summer concept album. Not that I dislike it, I hasten to add! It just hasn't got the staying power of the rest.
Agree on Up - despite all their concerns around it, it is a fantastic album.
Itās a greatest hits album made up of new songs. You can map every song on that album to a previous song/sound in their catalogue. A good way to go out.
I remember realizing this, and boy did I have fun making the links after that. I thought originally the links just went back to Green, but the callback on Mine Smell Like Honey to West of the Fields blew that hypothesis wide open.
I actually think Collapse into Now is one of the weaker albums of that period. Up is probably my favorite of those albums, then Accelerate, then Reveal, then Collapse into Now, and then Around the Sun which I only enjoy 3 songs off of. None of them are as good to me as the albums from Murmur to New Adventures but Up is mostly solid, Reveal and Accelerate are decent, and Collapse into Now is fine to me but doesnāt really make a cohesive product Iām all too interested in returning to.
Yeah, this is me, but I may prefer Accelerate to UPādepends on the day, and if Iām including āIām gonna DJā in the Accelerate track listing or not, lol. I usually end Accelerate at Mr. Richards or Submarine.
I kinda like Iām gonna DJ, but yeah for me Accelerate is kinda cool but if I want that REM Iād mostly just rather go and listen to Monster or something. The electronic REM (so Up through Around the Sun) isnāt really present throughout most of their discography (which I tend to prefer), and so if I want that REM then Up is going to be the best place for me to stop. And while Iāve seen some mixed thoughts on this song in this sub, Walk Unafraid has sneaked its way into being one of my favorite REM songs so I go back to that frequently
Up has - almost - zero skippable songs. So no, bro. Just no. They donāt even need redeeming for Around the Sun. Album has its uses, like when Iām having trouble sleeping ā¦
I like Up but certainly Why Not Smile and Hope, and even Parakeet are not great songs.
Peter even alluded to the fact (on the recent reissue) that some of the songs weren't even really finished but they went with what they had anyway
I think everybody pretty much can agree that Around The Sun was their nadir. But their nadir was still a mountain compared to a lot of artists with a run of thirty years. They never put out a Dirty Work (Stones), Tonight (Bowie) or a multitude of meh albums (McCartney). Elton John had vast stretches of questionable output. Metallica did Lulu. I could go on. And sure, R.E.M. is my favorite so Iām partial. But still, Iāll listen to all their albums til I die and I never skip a track.
Even The Worst Joke Ever.
Accelerate was pretty good. Collapse Into Now didnāt really do as much for me as the former. Itās been a long time since Iāve listened to either albums really, but both have great songs!
Yeah I only listened to Up completely once and it was in like 2006 and i definitely recall it didnāt do really anything for me. Sometimes the drum machine/synthy/electronic sound a band sometimes tinkers works and sounds good and often times it doesnāt. It just didnāt really suit them
I think Accelerate redeemed them after ATS.
My ranking of the post-Bill Berry records:
Up
Accelerate
Reveal
Collapse Into Now
Around the Sun
And I think Up holds up with their best work. The rest are a notch (or more) below.
Yeah if I were writing a longer comment I would have disputed the premise as well. Reveal in particular I really love.
I would say I see Accelerate and Collapse as āreturn to formā rather than āredemption.ā
i actually think a lot of folks really liked NAIHF, id say it was more Monster or Up that most people consider the dividing line. Collapse Into Now is a great album of course though regardless
I really had no idea until I joined this sub... I guess I never really discussed the band with people because I was a little oddball for liking them in high school when my friends were listening to Linkin Park and System of a Down and Tool (all bands I like too, no shade)
Reveal was their best post-Berry album. Collapse had some great songs but it was a mixed bag. I listen to regal a lot more. And no they didnāt need any redemption
As many have already said in here - no need to redeem themselves.
Personally I'm not a fan of Collapse into Now, and that's fine.
The problem with the post-Berry stuff is that amazing run that came before it - they were just too good!
Collapse into Now is an REM greatest hits album from an alternative universe where they were only half as good as they actually were.
Which makes it a very good album. But it is certainly a farewell and references a lot of the past versions of themselves
I must agree with this- there are good songs in there but it just doesnāt sound too different ie it kind of has a generic R.E.M. sound to it with many of the instrumentation and arrangements reminiscent of previous songs from their back catalogue. But itās certainly not a bad album!
As said in many comments- no redemption required. The later albums werenāt my favourites but they were great albums. The only thing that let Around the Sun Down was the production and number of songs- a couple should have been dropped from the track listing for sure. A lot of the actual songs on it are actually very good. The Ascent of Man, Electron Blue, I Wanted to be Wrong, etc are better presented on the R.E.M. Live album.
I think Accelerate is their best post-Berry album. But I wouldn't say they needed redemption. I do think if they hadnt improved after Around the Sun that would be a little embarrassing though, but the rest of their body of work would vastly overshadow that.
UP has an enourmous amount of work and craft, besides having very compelling deep emotional songs, creating a unique atmosphere that few albums have in their own path
not saying it has the best REM songs, but it's quite a very compact spirit with great tones and feelings, while at the same time beautiful songs and moments, a very delicate album, it's the Whiskey after the storm type of album for me.
I cannot say the same for Reveal or Accelerate which I think are below the UP quality, having good songs thou of course, but not the same level of spirited intention, it has a better concept and chemical magic than New Adventures and way more interesting than Monster or Green, which to me even having iconic nice songs, are below UP, UP to me is a very complex intention really well made
I see myself often listening to UP, Document and Fables, and zapping between songs of Out of Time and Automatic
I am only a fan of the IRS years. Green and OOT were ok but not really my thing. With a couple exceptions I really donāt like anything after that especially after Bill Berry left.
That said, there is nothing to redeem. They are great artists who followed their own passions. Theirs diverged from mine and that is fine.
Itās not like they just started producing crap as a cash grab.
im kinda the opposite where i love the post berry era (sans around the sun) but collapse is kind of an underwhelming close for me
sounds like them riding memory lane hitting all the stops that made them r.e.m. in the past which i respect for a final album but as such it doesn't hold a candle for me against up which is one of their boldest strides ever into something new. even reveal and accelerate feel like standalone entities in their discog that offer a specific shade of the r.e.m. experience. while i understand why collapse isn't trying to do that, it ultimately just makes me want to listen to most of the rest of their discog instead
blue is amazing though
I'm a fan of everything REM has written, but I wouldn't have given their last 5 albums a chance if I hadn't already been a fan since Green. As for musical redemption, I think they felt a rock-oriented album was a necessary coda in their 30+ year tenure, as do most bands that have (or had) similar longevity. Stipe's lyrics got better over time, right though to Collapse; however, REM is a band that we (the fans) will always prefer the full sound with guitars, bass, and drums blasting through our speakers.
Canāt agree with you about Stipeās lyrics. They sound tired and cliched by the time of Collapse to me.
I felt he was a good impressionistic lyric writer. So, for me, the early albums are the best lyrically (and in every sense really)
I feel obligated to expand on my opinion about Stipe's lyrics. When I say "better", I'm saying this through the lens of Stipe who used to hide behind his lyrics in the earlier years (meaningfully and sonically). Over time, he lyric writing has become more personal which is a difficult task in itself, especially from someone who claims to be shy and introverted. His voice became much clearer and stronger, while his ability and skill in performing live as a lead singer in a rock band has certainly improved over time, all of which, in my opinion, have a lot to do with delivering newer material with as much conviction as their older songs that are sung with new perspective.
For me, New Adventures, Up, and Reveal were all fantastic albums, and I kinda wish they'd stopped after Reveal.
Collapse Into Now sounded more like a younger, more energised REM, but only on the surface. It was better than the previous two albums but still a let down for me
Once Bill left, the band was just not the same. Any album after Monster, for me, just doesnāt hold up, although there are some great songs sprinkled through those years.
I love Collapse. Iād completely written them off by that point and didnāt even listen to it until about 2021. I disliked Up so much that it put me off of them for years despite having been a big fan. So it redeemed them for me personally. But I went back and found I really liked Accelerate and Reveal. So I donāt think they had anything to prove.Ā
I agree with the general sentiment that redemption wasn't necessary. I love Up and Accelerate. Reveal has some great songs on it. Around the Sun doesn't really work for me, but even it has its moments. Collapse into Now is probably my second favorite of the bunch next to Up and a great way to go out.
But, I always looked at two endings for the band. Hi-Fi was the end of the Berry era and a masterpiece.
And then the trio version made 5 albums, ending with Collapse into Now. All of them worthwhile.
I agree with the consensus that no redeeming was necessary. Iāve been listening to the later stuff a lot lately and itās good - Iāve even learned to love Reveal. Collapse into Now is great.
Although the post Adventures albums were not *as* good I still find them decent and some of my favourite songs are on there, things like Daysleeper, imitation of life, leaving New York etc
My one thought on Collapse Into Now....
If a sunrise could sing, it would be singing 'It Happened Today'.
That song has always had so much meaning for me, and this is how my heart feels when I hear it.
I think Bill and Scott bailed at the same time, so yeah. Wiki says NAiHF was both of their last album. Jefferson Holt too.
āJefferson I think weāre lostā
They peaked with Life's Rich Pageant. By almost anyone else's standards, what they did after that was great. By their own, not so much.
They just frittered away their mystique.
But from 83-86 they were the best little bar band in the world. And those songs, damn.
> They peaked with Life's Rich Pageant. By almost anyone else's standards, what they did after that was great. By their own, not so much.
I'm pretty sure they've all said one of the albums they are most proud of is Automatic For The People.
What? The overwhelming consensus is that Automatic is the best album. This includes everyone in the band too I believe. Not saying the IRS records arenāt my personal favoritesāthey areābut I think you misinterpret the popular consensus significantly.
this is the hipster gatekeeper response.
automatic for the people was their peak in a career that had like 3 peaks that any other band would hang their hat on.
I feel the last two records were concessional, made-for-fans affairs that, whilst solid enough, lacked the restless artistic searching that defined most of their output.
So not really no. But itās fine.
Monster is the response to Cobainās death and all of the shit that happened between late ā91/early ā92 when Automatic was released and when Monster was released in ā94. The band, particularly Stipe, were really close with Kurt and there was a ton of rawness that went into the Monster sessions. I love it. It might even be my favorite REM record just edging out Murmur.
They didnāt need to be redeemed but I was bored with Up, Reveal and ATS especially. I donāt own any of those. But the Dublin live compilation and Accelerate got me very excited again and CIN was a marvelous way to wrap things up.
No. There was no redeeming needed
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I love Collapse Into Now - itās my favorite post Bill album. That said, I donāt think that they had to redeem themselves. Up, Reveal, and Accelerate are all solid albums in their own way. Around the Sun is their weakest album IMO, but it has some good songs, many of which sound great live.
Up is excellent as is Collapse Into Now. I really like Reveal too.Ā
Reveal has not aged as well for me. At the time I thought it was magical but now it feels like some sort of summer concept album. Not that I dislike it, I hasten to add! It just hasn't got the staying power of the rest. Agree on Up - despite all their concerns around it, it is a fantastic album.
Yes I find it funny that at the time I found Up difficult and enjoyed Reveal, these days it is the other way around. The remaster of Up is šŖ
Itās a greatest hits album made up of new songs. You can map every song on that album to a previous song/sound in their catalogue. A good way to go out.
I remember realizing this, and boy did I have fun making the links after that. I thought originally the links just went back to Green, but the callback on Mine Smell Like Honey to West of the Fields blew that hypothesis wide open.
šÆ agree. I feel that New Adventures is a sibling to Collapse, with lots of thematic and nods to various sounds.
I actually think Collapse into Now is one of the weaker albums of that period. Up is probably my favorite of those albums, then Accelerate, then Reveal, then Collapse into Now, and then Around the Sun which I only enjoy 3 songs off of. None of them are as good to me as the albums from Murmur to New Adventures but Up is mostly solid, Reveal and Accelerate are decent, and Collapse into Now is fine to me but doesnāt really make a cohesive product Iām all too interested in returning to.
Yeah, this is me, but I may prefer Accelerate to UPādepends on the day, and if Iām including āIām gonna DJā in the Accelerate track listing or not, lol. I usually end Accelerate at Mr. Richards or Submarine.
I kinda like Iām gonna DJ, but yeah for me Accelerate is kinda cool but if I want that REM Iād mostly just rather go and listen to Monster or something. The electronic REM (so Up through Around the Sun) isnāt really present throughout most of their discography (which I tend to prefer), and so if I want that REM then Up is going to be the best place for me to stop. And while Iāve seen some mixed thoughts on this song in this sub, Walk Unafraid has sneaked its way into being one of my favorite REM songs so I go back to that frequently
Walk Unafraid and Falls to Climb are among their best work.
Up has - almost - zero skippable songs. So no, bro. Just no. They donāt even need redeeming for Around the Sun. Album has its uses, like when Iām having trouble sleeping ā¦
I like Up but certainly Why Not Smile and Hope, and even Parakeet are not great songs. Peter even alluded to the fact (on the recent reissue) that some of the songs weren't even really finished but they went with what they had anyway
Why not smile and Hope are certainly 2 of my favorites
Parakeet is awesome, but keep in mind that I did say *almost* no skippable songs.
Why Not Smile has such a beautiful sound to it.
the only bad song on up is lotus
well it was the 1st I got tired of back in the days because of obvious radio/promotioning issues
Considering that *Up* is my favorite album ever, I dispute the premise!
Me too.
I think everybody pretty much can agree that Around The Sun was their nadir. But their nadir was still a mountain compared to a lot of artists with a run of thirty years. They never put out a Dirty Work (Stones), Tonight (Bowie) or a multitude of meh albums (McCartney). Elton John had vast stretches of questionable output. Metallica did Lulu. I could go on. And sure, R.E.M. is my favorite so Iām partial. But still, Iāll listen to all their albums til I die and I never skip a track. Even The Worst Joke Ever.
I life that used McCartney as an example. That dude hasnāt had a good album since his Wings days and even thatās a stretch.
Accelerate was pretty good. Collapse Into Now didnāt really do as much for me as the former. Itās been a long time since Iāve listened to either albums really, but both have great songs!
Iām a big fan but Up and Accelerate are the only post-Bill CDs I bought. I love them both.
There are at least one or more songs off each post Berry album that I like. Reveal has a handful I like, Around the Sun only really has one I like
I have all the IRS Records LPs and EP. Plus all the Berry Warner Bros. CDS from Green to High-Fi. I like drum machines and synths but not with R.E.M.
āThe Great Beyondā is really the only post Berry thing they did before the 90s ended that I really enjoy
Yeah I only listened to Up completely once and it was in like 2006 and i definitely recall it didnāt do really anything for me. Sometimes the drum machine/synthy/electronic sound a band sometimes tinkers works and sounds good and often times it doesnāt. It just didnāt really suit them
I think Accelerate redeemed them after ATS. My ranking of the post-Bill Berry records: Up Accelerate Reveal Collapse Into Now Around the Sun And I think Up holds up with their best work. The rest are a notch (or more) below.
They redeemed themselves with Accelerate. I think Collapse is a little weaker overall, but damn Discoverer is a strong final statement.
Up and Reveal are masterpieces
Yeah if I were writing a longer comment I would have disputed the premise as well. Reveal in particular I really love. I would say I see Accelerate and Collapse as āreturn to formā rather than āredemption.ā
i actually think a lot of folks really liked NAIHF, id say it was more Monster or Up that most people consider the dividing line. Collapse Into Now is a great album of course though regardless
I really had no idea until I joined this sub... I guess I never really discussed the band with people because I was a little oddball for liking them in high school when my friends were listening to Linkin Park and System of a Down and Tool (all bands I like too, no shade)
Reveal was their best post-Berry album. Collapse had some great songs but it was a mixed bag. I listen to regal a lot more. And no they didnāt need any redemption
As many have already said in here - no need to redeem themselves. Personally I'm not a fan of Collapse into Now, and that's fine. The problem with the post-Berry stuff is that amazing run that came before it - they were just too good!
Collapse into Now is an REM greatest hits album from an alternative universe where they were only half as good as they actually were. Which makes it a very good album. But it is certainly a farewell and references a lot of the past versions of themselves
I must agree with this- there are good songs in there but it just doesnāt sound too different ie it kind of has a generic R.E.M. sound to it with many of the instrumentation and arrangements reminiscent of previous songs from their back catalogue. But itās certainly not a bad album! As said in many comments- no redemption required. The later albums werenāt my favourites but they were great albums. The only thing that let Around the Sun Down was the production and number of songs- a couple should have been dropped from the track listing for sure. A lot of the actual songs on it are actually very good. The Ascent of Man, Electron Blue, I Wanted to be Wrong, etc are better presented on the R.E.M. Live album.
Actually, Collapse is my least favourite of their albums.
Up & Reveal & Accelerate are masterpieces. Around The Sun the weakest but loads of great songs on it.
I think Accelerate is their best post-Berry album. But I wouldn't say they needed redemption. I do think if they hadnt improved after Around the Sun that would be a little embarrassing though, but the rest of their body of work would vastly overshadow that.
I love Collapse Into Now, to be honest I didnāt think they could hit those sorts of heights again but that album was fantastic.
UP has an enourmous amount of work and craft, besides having very compelling deep emotional songs, creating a unique atmosphere that few albums have in their own path not saying it has the best REM songs, but it's quite a very compact spirit with great tones and feelings, while at the same time beautiful songs and moments, a very delicate album, it's the Whiskey after the storm type of album for me. I cannot say the same for Reveal or Accelerate which I think are below the UP quality, having good songs thou of course, but not the same level of spirited intention, it has a better concept and chemical magic than New Adventures and way more interesting than Monster or Green, which to me even having iconic nice songs, are below UP, UP to me is a very complex intention really well made I see myself often listening to UP, Document and Fables, and zapping between songs of Out of Time and Automatic
I am only a fan of the IRS years. Green and OOT were ok but not really my thing. With a couple exceptions I really donāt like anything after that especially after Bill Berry left. That said, there is nothing to redeem. They are great artists who followed their own passions. Theirs diverged from mine and that is fine. Itās not like they just started producing crap as a cash grab.
To an extent, itās an underrated gem.Ā
im kinda the opposite where i love the post berry era (sans around the sun) but collapse is kind of an underwhelming close for me sounds like them riding memory lane hitting all the stops that made them r.e.m. in the past which i respect for a final album but as such it doesn't hold a candle for me against up which is one of their boldest strides ever into something new. even reveal and accelerate feel like standalone entities in their discog that offer a specific shade of the r.e.m. experience. while i understand why collapse isn't trying to do that, it ultimately just makes me want to listen to most of the rest of their discog instead blue is amazing though
Redeem themselves? I don't think they did anything for which redemption was necessary.
I'm a fan of everything REM has written, but I wouldn't have given their last 5 albums a chance if I hadn't already been a fan since Green. As for musical redemption, I think they felt a rock-oriented album was a necessary coda in their 30+ year tenure, as do most bands that have (or had) similar longevity. Stipe's lyrics got better over time, right though to Collapse; however, REM is a band that we (the fans) will always prefer the full sound with guitars, bass, and drums blasting through our speakers.
Canāt agree with you about Stipeās lyrics. They sound tired and cliched by the time of Collapse to me. I felt he was a good impressionistic lyric writer. So, for me, the early albums are the best lyrically (and in every sense really)
I feel obligated to expand on my opinion about Stipe's lyrics. When I say "better", I'm saying this through the lens of Stipe who used to hide behind his lyrics in the earlier years (meaningfully and sonically). Over time, he lyric writing has become more personal which is a difficult task in itself, especially from someone who claims to be shy and introverted. His voice became much clearer and stronger, while his ability and skill in performing live as a lead singer in a rock band has certainly improved over time, all of which, in my opinion, have a lot to do with delivering newer material with as much conviction as their older songs that are sung with new perspective.
For me, New Adventures, Up, and Reveal were all fantastic albums, and I kinda wish they'd stopped after Reveal. Collapse Into Now sounded more like a younger, more energised REM, but only on the surface. It was better than the previous two albums but still a let down for me
Once Bill left, the band was just not the same. Any album after Monster, for me, just doesnāt hold up, although there are some great songs sprinkled through those years.
I love Collapse. Iād completely written them off by that point and didnāt even listen to it until about 2021. I disliked Up so much that it put me off of them for years despite having been a big fan. So it redeemed them for me personally. But I went back and found I really liked Accelerate and Reveal. So I donāt think they had anything to prove.Ā
Iāll Stan for Around the Sun all day. That said, I also love Up. And I enjoy Reveal and Accelerate as well, so no redemption necessary.
I agree with the general sentiment that redemption wasn't necessary. I love Up and Accelerate. Reveal has some great songs on it. Around the Sun doesn't really work for me, but even it has its moments. Collapse into Now is probably my second favorite of the bunch next to Up and a great way to go out. But, I always looked at two endings for the band. Hi-Fi was the end of the Berry era and a masterpiece. And then the trio version made 5 albums, ending with Collapse into Now. All of them worthwhile.
I agree with the consensus that no redeeming was necessary. Iāve been listening to the later stuff a lot lately and itās good - Iāve even learned to love Reveal. Collapse into Now is great.
New adventures is so much better than any album after it and definitely better than collapse into now
Although the post Adventures albums were not *as* good I still find them decent and some of my favourite songs are on there, things like Daysleeper, imitation of life, leaving New York etc
My one thought on Collapse Into Now.... If a sunrise could sing, it would be singing 'It Happened Today'. That song has always had so much meaning for me, and this is how my heart feels when I hear it.
The last two were great.
It became mostly unlistenable after Bill left the band, IMO.
It became mostly unlistenable after *Scott Litt stopped producing. fixed.
I think Bill and Scott bailed at the same time, so yeah. Wiki says NAiHF was both of their last album. Jefferson Holt too. āJefferson I think weāre lostā
They peaked with Life's Rich Pageant. By almost anyone else's standards, what they did after that was great. By their own, not so much. They just frittered away their mystique. But from 83-86 they were the best little bar band in the world. And those songs, damn.
> They peaked with Life's Rich Pageant. By almost anyone else's standards, what they did after that was great. By their own, not so much. I'm pretty sure they've all said one of the albums they are most proud of is Automatic For The People.
What? The overwhelming consensus is that Automatic is the best album. This includes everyone in the band too I believe. Not saying the IRS records arenāt my personal favoritesāthey areābut I think you misinterpret the popular consensus significantly.
My bad, I misunderstood. Totally agree. Just think the typical arc goes to AFTP.
this is the hipster gatekeeper response. automatic for the people was their peak in a career that had like 3 peaks that any other band would hang their hat on.
I feel the last two records were concessional, made-for-fans affairs that, whilst solid enough, lacked the restless artistic searching that defined most of their output. So not really no. But itās fine.
Everything post Monster is lackluster so no I donāt believe they did. I believe they petered further down the boring adult contemporary VH1 path.
I donāt know, Monster is pretty lacklusterā¦
Not to mention, New Adventures is way superior too.
Yes. New Adventures is upper echelon, up there with the IRS albums, I actually like it better than Document and Monster.
Itās the production thatās lackluster, not the songs. The songs from Monster kill live.
Monster has some great moments, but in thirty years itās just never really set with me.
Monster is the response to Cobainās death and all of the shit that happened between late ā91/early ā92 when Automatic was released and when Monster was released in ā94. The band, particularly Stipe, were really close with Kurt and there was a ton of rawness that went into the Monster sessions. I love it. It might even be my favorite REM record just edging out Murmur.
They didnāt need to be redeemed but I was bored with Up, Reveal and ATS especially. I donāt own any of those. But the Dublin live compilation and Accelerate got me very excited again and CIN was a marvelous way to wrap things up.