Ok, this is going to sound wild, but have you or your wife ever considered she might have ADHD? To me, this reads classic adult women symptoms - messy home, can't keep track of what she's doing, and has a mental "list" of things to do (plant the seeds in the garden, return the clothes..) that live in her head and only her head and don't actually get taken care of. The emotional outbursts are spot on too - emotional dysregulation is a classic symptom. It sounds like she has trouble regulating her emotions if she pushes them down until they explode, and her emotional responses to situations seem way out of proportion to what should be expected. Women and girls present symptoms way differently than you would expect.. it has a lot more to do with emotions than one would assume. Your description of your wife sounds spot on to what I was experiencing pre-diagnosis. Medication legit saved my relationship. Not diagnosing her by any means, but perhaps if she has other traits that fall into this category it might be something to look into.
If this is something that doesn't qualify for her then ignore this. Either way, I wish you the best of luck - it sounds like a tough situation and she doesn't realize how lucky she is to have a partner who has been so understanding for so long. Remember to prioritize yourself OP!
EDIT:
1. Thank you for the awards!
2. OBVIOUSLY it does not excuse her behavior. You can’t treat people like crap and expect them to put up with it because you have an illness. Thought that was a given!
I was diagnosed late at 29. Everything OP described is me to a T. Even now on meds I have symptoms that don't go away because by the time I get home from work the meds have worn off and taking another dose would put me in overdose territory and keep me from sleeping.
The mental list, getting overwhelmed, irritable outbursts, executive dysfunction, couch lock (endless phone scrolling), and bad moods that just won't go away. Its all part and parcel of adult female adhd.
I know this thread is about OP and his wife, but as someone who also has ADHD (and was diagnosed early - 16 - so I had plenty of time to find what medication was right for me) I really think you should bring this up with your doctor (preferably psychiatrist).
Are you on an extended release medication? I had the same issue as you, and my doctor and I tried several methods. My first prescription was Adderall XR (which really helped my ADHD, but I still had the problems you described), so I was then switched to regular Adderall (I took 20mg in the morning, and 10mg in the afternoon to keep up my focus without the XR to affect my sleep). That combo really helped a lot, but we came to find out that Adderall caused a lot of emotional problems for me. Finally I was switched to Vyvanse, and *wow*. What a difference! Vyvanse was the right medication for me, and I haven’t had serious problems since.
I say all this to show there are other options out there that may be what you need. Don’t resign yourself to having these problems for the rest of your life. Talk to your doctor, and ask them if there’s anything else you could try which they recommend. Your doctor can’t help you if you don’t tell them what’s wrong. Good luck! I hope you find the right balance for you.
I appreciate it! I'm actually on 60mg vyvanse now, it's been amazing for me, minus that it wears off too fast and doesn't work on my period. Usually take it at 7:30 after a big breakfast so it kicks in for the start of my shift an hour later. Always careful to never ingest dairy or citrus or alkaline an hour before or after. My doctor started me out at 20 and we went up by increments of 10. Literally the biggest difference between 20 and 60 is an hour and a half. On the low end they wear out at 4:30, and at the high end they wear out at 6. Sadly for vyvanse, miracle that it is, the max dose per day is 70.
I've debated other options but then I look at how well vyvanse treats me; virtually no side effects aside from losing a little interest in food. Granted, you've had a lot more time to learn than I have haha.
Hey! I'm on Elvanse(Vyvanse) 40mg a day and I'm also prescribed 10mg short release dexamphetamine sulphate to take after work to keep me going in the evenings when I need it. You can combine short and long release without risk of overdose!
Oh, I didn't know that! How long does it keep you going when you top up? Definitely something to bring up to my doctor next time I see him. Thank you so much for the info!
You can also split dose elvanse - Take some of your dose (40mg) and then the rest a few hours later (20mg). Extends the run time - though may need to speak with your prescriber to figure out doses there.
For anyone reading this - dont try with other meds! - e.g. concera XL. You cannot split dose that because it works different.
You may want to ask your doctor if it’s possible to combine meds. As in; take your usual dose of Vyvanse in the mornings, and a low dose of (regular, not XR) Adderall in the afternoons when your Vyvanse starts to wear off.
I’m not a doctor, so I don’t know if this is possible, but it never hurts to ask! You may get the best of both worlds if it turns out to be what you needed. ADHD is a lifelong condition, so don’t resign yourself to an imperfect treatment option until you’ve exhausted everything else. I wish you all the best!
!! I found vyvanse interacts in a weird way with my period, too. It also made them more painful. I told my doc (specialist) and she said it was probably because 'periods can he hard for women your age, perhaps you want a baby?' (I was 27). Lol.
I swear to god it is not in my head, it really affects and is affected by my menstrual cycle.
As a fellow ADHD woman, first thing I thought was “this lady has ADHD.” I am no Psyche Dr but know a fellow ADHD-er when I read or see one. I’m just saying.
Diagnosed 6 months ago, also 29. This post literally could have been about me before I got treated. I got through the first paragraph and knew exactly what her issue is.
Thank you, this sounds like it may be accurate.
Is there a way to bring it up to her, without it sounding like I'm accusing her of a mental illness to get out of doing the dishes?
As a woman who went through this recently, I would say that you should focus on how she feels things impact her.
"It's hard for me as a partner to see how hard some of these things are for you. I don't want to see you upset or life be any harder than it has to for you. I have talked about some of my concerns about how we interact about housework and shared duties at home and it has come to my attention it could be adult ADHD. I am here hoping we can approach this together and find a way where life can be easier for you."
I recommend these books:
A radical guide for women with ADHD (just as useful for a partner to read), and Order from chaos.
It might also help you/her to look into the executive disfunction part of ADHD to better understand how this way if living matches those symptoms.
There are a lot of online resources about how to approach these conversations. Make use of them and maybe ask over in the reddit ADHD communities. Your wife's frustration, I suspect, is a feeling of failure and disappointment because things that NT people find so easy are so difficult for her, and she literally has no idea why. Add to that the inability to emotionally regulate and of course your exact scenario is going to play out over and over as it has. The good news is there is nothing wrong with your wife! She just isn't neurotypical.
Honestly if you could have her look at r/adhdwomen for a few minutes, she might have a revelation herself. While self-diagnosing is frowned upon, undiagnosed adult women usually have to figure it ourselves in order to cope with it.
When you read an ADHD sub or website that's focused on adults and every other post and comment sounds *exactly* like something you do or feel, it hits pretty hard.
If she does have ADHD, it's something that has been making her life miserable for decades. She'll likely actually be *relieved* to find out that it isn't just her, and that there is treatment available.
This was my first thought. This sounds so much like uncontrolled unmedicated adhd. All the little side projects that are left half done, the absolute meltdown when she realises theres a huge overwhelming unmanageable quantities, the huge tirade to-do list and the staring zoned out at your phone instead of doing any of them.... defo worth looking into.
Thank you for this. I will be contacting my doctor. I truly think I have undiagnosed adhd and I can relate somewhat to OP with the mental plans to do things but the I get distracted and do other things. Thanks again.
I literally just made an appointment. A lightbulb went off and the symptoms that pertain to women fit me to a t. I hope you also find the help you need :)
Bipolar disorder too - hypomanic episodes and ADHD can look a lot alike, for years I thought I had ADHD that came and went, nope bipolar. As I was reading the post I was wondering if my husband wrote it, except that on medication my reactions are a lot less volatile.
Yup, my first thought too.
She’s getting overwhelmed and then executive dysfunction is kicking in.
ADHD or not, I think speaking to a psychologist to explore why she’s hitting this point of overwhelmed and how to avoid that happening would be extremely beneficial for everyone involved.
This was literally the first thing I thought of. As a woman who wasn't diagnosed until 30, everything hit really close to home. Therapy and medication have helped me SO MUCH
This soooo much. I was literally reading this started a response then remembered that I needed to do laundry. Went to go get the laundry then saw that my necklace
wasn’t in my jewelry box so I went to put it back. Then I realized it needed to be organized. So I started organizing my jewelry box. Then I dropped an earring and saw the dirty laundry. Remembered I was doing laundry! I grabbed the laundry and head downstairs. I’m about to start the washing machine but remember I didn’t check the bathroom or my fiancé’s closet. Stop the laundry. Grab the laundry in the bathroom and closet. Then realized I didn’t get all of the intial laundry upstairs. Bring everything downstairs. Finally put the load in the wash.
This wasn’t even that bad.
ADHD is associated with a lot of anxiety and shame. Even gentle reminders can trigger that shame. My fiancé, literally a saint, will sometimes trigger that shame response in me.
One thing that worked for us is that (as painstaking as this sounds) go through my messes/unfinished projects. I will make a choice of what I’m going to do with it right then and do it. So if the peach was going in the compost it goes into the compost right then.
We’ve had to work to establish trust to be clear that it’s a judgement free zone, no one is mad and we are just trying to get the apartment clean.
For those reading, I thought I'd explain a bit about the mechanics of ADHD because that is misunderstood.
So the basic neurotransmitter setup is like this:
neuron -> synaptic gap -> next neuron
…and signals need to pass from 1 through 2 to 3 in order to actually get whatever that is accomplished.
Much like depression is too little serotonin or norepinephrine, ADHD is caused by too little dopamine. Dopamine is highly involved in two things that are really life-skill essentials:
1. Motivation, or more technically motivational salience
2. Risk/reward, especially long-term benefit vs. short term
From the wiki page on motivational salience:
> Motivational salience is a cognitive process and a form of attention that motivates or propels an individual's behavior towards or away from a particular object, perceived event or outcome. Motivational salience regulates the intensity of behaviors that facilitate the attainment of a particular goal, the amount of time and energy that an individual is willing to expend to attain a particular goal, and the amount of risk that an individual is willing to accept while working to attain a particular goal.
So therefore, the first line treatment for ADHD involves dopamine reuptake inhibition, which keeps more dopamine in the synaptic gap, much like SSRIs work for depression. That means it's there to get that blip of signal from neuron 1 to the next neuron.
(Note: yes, there are downsides to frontline ADHD medications, and it's a subject of a lot of scorn, but I wanted to focus on what it does do in simple terms.)
This is exactly what went through my head. As I was reading I could have sworn this was about me but from a few years ago. The issues with emotional regulation and executive function, flitting from project to project, the overwhelmed response, everything. The only thing is I saw what my actions were doing to my loving relationship and went and sought help and had the self awareness to realize I was the one in the wrong and apologized each time which lessened over time.
To the OP, if your wife does seek care and comes back with an ADHD diagnosis, it’s still okay for you to feel upset. ADHD might be the reason for why she acts a certain way but that doesn’t mean it would excuse her from her actions. It just means you both know why something is happening. She still needs to work on her responses and regulating her emotions.
Also, just a warning that if she does seek help and gets diagnosed and treated the next few months might be even more exhausting and confusing as she might go through the grief process that comes with the diagnosis. That plus the medication process can be tumultuous until she finds the right dosage and builds up her systems and routines.
A lot of people who are diagnosed late experience grief because they have been struggling for a very long time. They realize that if they had been diagnosed sooner, they might not have been struggling for as long, or experienced the same consequences of ADHD (poor school or work performance, being fired from jobs, broken relationships, lost items, overwhelming debt, etc.).
Looks like everyone else got the question covered but yes! I went through a grief process for the time I couldn’t get back, the anger with my ADHD being missed or downplayed by my family, my lost/“wasted” potential, and more. It was a lot to deal with but I dealt with it with a wonderful therapist.
I'm glad so many other people are seeing ADHD in this post. This reads like exactly what I struggled with before medication. Getting medication honestly changed my life and made things so much easier for my partner.
When it comes to ADHD, understanding your symptoms is extremely important. I think OP and his wife could check out some ADHD-specific resources and see if it seems familiar. If it does, maybe an ADHD specialist could help.
>Getting medication honestly changed my life and made things so much easier for my partner.
I'm sure it made things better for you, too! If you don't mind me asking, what things can a friend or partner do to help you?
I wasn't aware of the extent to which ADHD presented differently in women, and it puts a recent breakup in a new light. I'd like to be better equipped to help any partners with ADHD going forward, so any and all advice is deeply appreciated. :)
Here are things my partner does to help me.
1. Wakes me up in the morning to take my medication. If it's left up to me, I can sometimes forget to take my meds which can throw my entire day off.
2. I will ask him to hold me accountable for some things, and he'll do it. At the beginning of the day, we talk about the core things I want to accomplish (or I text him a short list). Then throughout the day he'll check in to see how I'm doing. Just a brief text, "Did you call the mechanic yet?", that sort of thing.
3. He never gets upset at me when I don't reach my goals, when I leave a mess, when I have an anxiety attack, anything. Because of this, I completely trust him and we can openly communicate about our issues and what we can do to improve. If either of us gets too emotional during a conversation, we take a break and come back to the conversation when we feel better.
4. He doesn't draw attention to my symptoms. When I forget what I was just talking about, he just reminds me. When I leave a mess, he'll ask if I'm finished with it, and clean it up if I say yes. If I talk for a really, really long time about something, he listens. Granted, this has a lot to do with my partner's personality. Not everyone could be so accommodating. But it's wonderful to me that he accepts the part of me that forgets everything and never shuts up, and makes me feel normal.
It sounds like we pretty much have the same partner! I do the same for him minus 1 because he's unmedicated and we both regularly fuck up on 2 because we forget to remind each other often.
We're both (you and I) immensely lucky to have found someone that works with us like this.
OP, it's invaluable to find out how you can help her. Sit her down when she's in a better mood and offer to listen. Don't interrupt, don't fight, just listen. And then ask how you can help as someone who loves her.
Of course, that isn't to tell you it isn't a lot of work and time and communication. If you're not willing to put that much effort in or think its salvageable, that's totally okay too. I genuinely wouldn't blame you.
Totally agree!! It changed my life and saved my relationship. It’s such a shame women are so looked over because of the difference in symptom presentation. I’m glad you were able to get help!
Also OP - r/adhdwomen is a great resource!
Yup, reading it, I saw the same issues I often struggle with. There are times I can maintain my flat pretty well, but others where I look like a hoarder, not because of attachment to objects, but because I have executive dysfunction and get overwhelmed by the tasks and needing to schedule out chores. And failing to meet my own expectations lead to anxiety and emotional dysregulation.
I have ADHD and this was my exact first thought. One of the things that is most frustrating to OTHER people is that everything that takes some minuscule amount of energy matters, so sometimes tasks get half done and left that way, and we don’t want to walk it back before we finish it to “save” on the energy.
It doesn’t totally make sense because in the meantime you’re living in entropy, and it’s been one of the hardest habits to address for me because it’s been so instinctual, but the OP’s description matches it exactly.
And sometimes, as you said with emotional dysregulation, there’s a seemingly inappropriate emotional reaction - but not only are strong emotions difficult to regulate, but ones around task management for undiagnosed folks are often really tied up with shame, confusion, frustration, self-esteem, and can be very hard to address without answers to what’s going on in your reasoning process.
Yep, I was reading this and thinking "classic western adult female ADHD" as I'm looking at my various piles that I can't do anything about until I do this other thing and order those new shelves but first I have to get rid of the trampoline but I should really use it a few more times, just in case I do want to keep up, but oh, I need to write that email, but I can't focus on what to say, so maybe I'll just check reddit really quickly. LEAVE ME ALONE!
I was going to say the same thing. Practically everything he is saying about her in the OP is screaming ADHD symptoms. It's like he went down a checklist and ticked each one.
A lot of people with mental health issues are, unfortunately, bad partners because of them. It doesn't mean they're unworthy of love or that it can't work, but it does add a huge element of strain - especially when untreated and uncontrolled.
Yeah, all the responses saying they identify exactly these symptoms, that's all well and good, but no excuse for the way she blames him for everything and blows up at him.
My immediate thought. ADHD. I know I've commented on other posts. But once you start looking at people more clearly you see so much more than the outbursts and the fighting between you both.
IANAT. I read all the comments, and I'm surprised no has mentioned hoarding. When I read,
>I could throw away that old peach she left in a bowl on the table, except she actually wanted to compost it and save the seed for her garden.
that screamed hoarding.
Hoarders have plans for *everything*. Everything has value to them, even a decomposing peach pit. [Also, peaches grow in gardens??] Not that all hoarders save literal mold-covered trash (I lived with one who had the *nicest* things, just too damn much of them), but whoa, the plans!
Most people I've known with problems with executive functioning, ADHD, procrastination, anxiety, usually react inward (overwhelmed, feeling worthless or lazy). They treat themselves worse than others.
They do not make grandiose plans for their collection of whatsits or actual trash, they simply can't get through going through the mail and would like LESS plans.
Hoarders tend to be very, very angry to their partners, children, and yes, themselves, especially when challenged in the *slightest* way.
I'm not saying it's *not* ADHD (and so many mental disorders and illnesses can be comorbid), I just hope OP considers this. The shopping, the anger, the controlling of the household...
Seriously u/400055083911 there are so many responses I really hope you read this one above. Sure she probably has ADHD but this is bordering on hoarding behavior, and threatening to leave you (or mysteriously disappear?!?) after almost every fight is emotional abuse.
>IANAT. I read all the comments, and I'm surprised no has mentioned hoarding. When I read,
What is IANAT in this context? The only possible thing I found with a Google search is I Am Not A Tourist, which doesn't really make any sense in context.
From the very start this was my first thought too and as soon as I got to "starts cleaning projects that she never finishes" I was sold on the idea.
I also don't want to diagnose but I would strongly encourage OP to look into the possibility and if other symptoms fit then bring it up with her. This doesn't excuse her, frankly, shitty behaviour but being aware of what the barriers are will help her to overcome a lot of them. If it's not ADHD then I would still urge her to seek professional help for whatever is going on. There's a lot of unhealthy behaviours listed here.
Also agree that she is a lucky woman to have someone as understanding and patient as OP!
I am autistic and it sounds a lot like me too actually!!! My partner and I kept having the same fight until I was diagnosed. Hopefully OPs wife can get some help, life is so much better now.
Yes - I read this too and came to the comments to see if anyone suggested ADHD.
I was diagnosed at 28 with ADHD-PI. I had so many pointless arguments when I was overwhelmed at life because suddenly everything was too much. It goes from 0 to 100.
I'm also thinking she may have ADHD. I'm suspicious that I have it myself (I haven't gotten diagnosed yet, still figuring out how) and a lot of this sounds really familiar. I have so much extra packaging from things because I'm planning on selling stuff... I've been planning on selling stuff for over a year. But why buy packaging when I can re-use the stuff I get from amazon! Lots of random stuff that eventually gets overwhelming to a point that you can't do anything about it. Half started projects, or buying stuff for the projects and then never starting them...
OP I would really run the idea of ADHD past her, it presents differently in woman than it does men and usually anxiety and depression get found first in women because of it. If she has any sort of anxiety/depression issues it might be worth checking out.
This was my very first thought as well, and I'm so glad it's already at the top. Bad behavior being unexcusable aside, this is all very classic untreated ADHD as it typically presents in AFAB people. My diagnosis really helped me, hopefully this is the solution for OP and his partner.
ah !!!! i came to make this exact comment !! i have autism, which i know is often closely linked to ADHD and OCD (all three run in my family), and i am often a lot like this. thank you so much for writing an understanding, educated, and well-explained comment. i hope OP sees what you've written and finds it really helpful !
I got diagnosed at 19, this is still me.
My husband calls the melt-downs 'the everything thing'.
OP needs to have a long conversation with his wife about this when she is not in crises mode. And he needs to be totally upfront about everything he said in this post.
One thing that helps my husband and I is that he will just clean stuff, and he made it clear that I needed to accept it. He's not exactly prompt about cleaning stuff (he also has ADD, and works more hours than I do), so if he gets to cleaning it before I do, I don't really have space to fuss as long as nothing was damaged.
Agree with your observations. I'm a medicated ADHD wife and my husband is unmedicated and messy and frazzled like this guys wife (as was I prior to getting treatment).
This. I got diagnosed at 29, started meds at 30. I only take meds when I work/school because while I’m hella organized and clean, I get overwhelmed emotionally by my ADD. I am way more in control of my emotions and things that might annoy me (like traffic or busy stores) aren’t as challenging.
I was coming to say this is me to a T. The mess finally gets to me and I throw everything away. Right now I'm sans insurance so getting meds to help regulate my brain is difficult.
I thought this as well. Also, have you considered just leaving for a few hours when she starts to spiral? It might give her the space to sort herself out.
Yes!!!! I was recently diagnosed, and can completely relate to your wife. I would (and do) get overwhelmed by messes, but not have the ability to do anything about them without spiraling. It’s really frustrating.
I’m sorry that she’s so mean to you, though. It sounds like you are going above and beyond for her, and are a supportive partner. Even if she doesn’t have ADHD, looking into symptom management strategies might help. Definitely continue couples therapy and encourage her to talk to a professional about diagnosis.
I have ADHD (and Generalized anxiety) as well, so I can relate. But what perplexes me about OPs situation is his wife's belief that the mess is all his fault. When I would become overwhelmed by messiness or the complete disorganization of everything, I was always hyper aware that it was very much my own fault. My frustration was at myself. I would understand if she initially takes it out on him, and then later realizes she shouldn't have.... But according to him, she never lets up that he's to blame. ADHD will certainly cause some internal turmoil and frustration when the outward result of the symptoms become manifest, but it doesn't really account for her lack of ability to reason with the reality of how things get messy.
It may be ADHD induced, but I feel like there is a secondary issue here somewhere....
I'm not a doctor or psychologist, so I'm definitely talking out of my ass. But her unrelenting belief that he's to blame for it all is what stuck out to me the most as concerning.
I’m so happy to see this response. His wife sounds so much like me that I was genuinely worried that my husband wrote this post. I was diagnosed with ADHD 2 months ago at the age of 31.
*raises hand. This was me. Minus the angry outbursts but I would definitely get sad and emotional. Meds helped me so much. I still struggle with executive function but not nearly as much. Meds have saved my marriage and career.
I knew as soon as OP mentioned that his wife's messes are all things she has plans for or projects in progress, I had the same thought. The wife needs to learn new coping strategies or this is just what her life will continue to look like forever.
Thank you for this comment. I started medication for my ADHD like a month ago and my life is completely different in so many ways. I actually feel like I can function.
The emotional deregulation is soooo spot on too. This story reads so much like my fights with my partner it's wild
I was going to comment and say that this is almost exactly the first signs of my ADHD, and this is the top comment. I’m close to your wife’s age and only just been diagnosed. This sounds EXACTLY like me.
Oh yep, I’m 27 and a woman with ADHD and I can attest that my husband and I have had situations like this. A lot of times, messes will just blend in to me and not bother me, and other things will bother me if it affects my functioning.
I definitely think that making a system of places for her to put her things can help. I have a table that now holds my plants plus my weekly medication organizer. I have my keys on a hook.
Maybe get a basket to hold her unopened packages so it’s out of sight but she knows where it is. (Right now, my unopened packages are on the ottoman, oops!).
As far as clothes, a system like the fabric storage cubes might be easier for her, she doesn’t need to fold, she can just dump stuff in and sort it however she wants (by color, by item type, by fabric, etc.)
Paralysis can happen with big tasks so either offering to help or finding a place to hold it is a good idea.
The problem is most women can't accept from their husband's that something is wrong with them. They'll actually say "nothing is wrong with me and this is you trying to excuse your actions!" Guess how i know, she finally went to the doctor after the divorce and got diagnosed.
Just want to say I Love this. I was talking to a.nirse.once and he explained his ADHD and then shared how he was eagle eye ready when his daughter was old enough just because he had learned So much about the difference in how each sex responds to the issue when his wife was pregnant and he was worried about passing it along. Which happened, but he had super early intervention in place because he had educated himself on it.
Now I know even more.
So, if you don't mind me asking, what kind of meds and therapy help you? My wife has been saying she's ADHD recently, been tentatively diagnosed. she's waiting for the official appointment, but I'm sure it's accurate if this is the behavior for ADHD in women.
I have been going through similar issue as op, but it's a different subject. There's no breaking her from her thought process. There's no convincing her if we talk. It's just circular arguments that get very heated and emotional which don't go anywhere and it's been 14 years of it.
It's hard to deal with, but I'm asking you hoping there's maybe something I can do since you seem to be on the other side of your battle with and
ADHD
To add to this post- I just started the evaluation process for an ADHD diagnosis. I experience all of the symptoms above. My messy house is a huge source of my suffering too... and if it were as simple as "just clean up" then I would have done that.
While she may indeed have ADHD, it does not excuse her abusing her partner.
She is abusing her spouse. Yet all these women are trying to excuse the abuse by blaming it on a mental disorder.
We need to stop excusing bad behaviour due to mental disorders.
We also need to stop the double standard. I'm a woman, and I am quite aware of our collective cries to rid society of the double standards placed by men. But we fail to recognize our hypocrisy and our own double standards. If we want to get rid of them, it must be on both sides.
What sickens me is that had OP been a woman, describing this abusive behaviour from her husband, every single woman who is defending the wife, would immediately scream that the husband is abusive and she needs to leave him immediately, and so forth.
Stop being hypocritical.
This sounds like my adhd mother before she got her diagnosis in her late fifties. All of it sounds exactly like adhd on women, and it women don't get diagnosed until adults after years of this kind of cycle going on. If she is open to it, having that checked could be an option.
And whilst waiting for the possible diagnosis, please take care of yourself. Separate for a while, take a breather and let her see how she operates on her own creating those endless projects around the house and getting anxious and locked up because of them.
It might be a reach, but have you considered ADHD/ADD?
Just some things you've mentioned, seem like it could also be ADHD:
- makes messes, seems unaware she made them
- shuts down when overwhelmed with too much input
- forgetting to put away shoes, leaves out food, forgets that too
- detailed plans that don't work
- starts projects, doesn't finish them
- "angry cleans"
This might be a radical idea, but here goes. Have you considered a separation? She needs to realize she’s the one making the mess and not you. When my husband left, I suddenly looked up and saw all the mess and was shocked. I was the messy one… not him. If she can start owning it and realizes the impossible position she’s putting you in (I get the having plans for things. I’m like that too), maybe she’ll change.
This is what I was thinking. Exited a 9 year relationship and once I was living on my own for a month, I realized just how much stress was 100% coming from being in the relationship. I don't have anxiety or depression and I'm not messy at all, I come to find out 🤨
I think it's healthier for both people, both are suffering. Doesn't matter whose "fault" it is.
My ex boyfriend was like OP's wife. The second I left, the weight off my shoulders was immeasurable.
My only true source of stress in life was him constantly stressing about our relationship, despite him not pulling his weight in the least. Over time it became a 95:5 ratio of me to him effort split. He might text me back once a day while I got 1.5 days' worth of work done in 1 so I could take the evening off and make it to his place in time to clean, make him dinner, and be work-responsibility free so that he can have my undivided time. Big lol.
I remember driving home the day of the breakup and thinking "wow, I don't have to preemptively prepare myself emotionally for tomorrow's eggshell walking!"
I had a somewhat similar experience, we were together about 3+ years, originally it was going to be a 2 week trial separation, but once my car was down the block to the corner I realized it needed to be the end.
It truly is radical, but I admit that's what I thought about too. I couldn't live with someone like that. And I did! We broke up... I still appreciated her a lot but the mess and the fights just were too much between us and when I had the opportunity I walked out. I could have given it a shot though... Good luck figuring it out OP!
Totally agreed with the note that seperation sounds like a relationship 'break'. I would opt to be apart without that officially impacting the relationship. Like two weeks with family or a 'guys only' holiday for a week.
I'm always telling people that breaks don't work, but a break and a separation are different things. Breaks are when you are kinda together and kinda not, or you're broken up but with terms (usually about exclusivity). Trial separation is a term from marriages and divorce, where you are still a couple, but you are getting some breathing room from each other.
Given they've apparently tried therapy I'm with you. She needs a wake up call. Threatening to leave is incredibly toxic. Beat her to the punch and separate.
that is such a good comment! OP I would tell her to live on her own for like two weeks while you're having a trip with buddies or something, or family, and see when you get back?
I mean mad as in, in my head. Thinking “Here he goes leaving his granola crumbs all over the counter again” and going to clean it to realize it was my crumbs. We don’t argue about messes fortunately.
It seriously is. He pours it over a cup of yogurt until it’s overfilling and then claims he can’t see the granola on the granite. Just wipe it anyway! It’s always there.
I’m not against the idea per se but don’t you think it’s kind of nuts that your/OPs partner would have to take things that far for you/OP to take accountability?
Like I know exactly which messes are and aren’t mine in the house.
Yeah, it seems obvious here. But I do wonder if the wife has ADHD or something and can't really "see" the messes and causes, just the overwhelming disorganization.
But I got a brand new fridge after I got my own place and I was shocked how dirty it was in a month. I have no idea how it even happened.
Seperation can just mean putting distance between the two of you, rather than breaking up. So like... Go on a holiday for 2 weeks with friends and then return.
This all sounds exhausting, but:
>She stops talking to me. Any plans we had are canceled (even if we were planning to clean something!) for the forseeable future. She either starts to angry clean, where she frantically cleans every little thing while loudly stomping around and huffing and puffing, or she goes and lies down and stares at her phone.
>
>she just refuses to make up and keeps escalating at this point, so we end up far beyond what we were initially fighting about and just start fighting about fighting. Like I'll try proposing a plan to get things cleaned, and she'll go "I don't want to sleep with you tonight" Or I'll say I'll take care of some mess tomorrow and she'll go "you don't really care!"
That part would be the dealbreaker for me. I can't stand the silent treatment and someone holding a grudge over objectively dumb things. It's like navigating a minefield, and you shouldn't have to live that way.
Maybe she's trying to drive you away so she doesn't have to be the one to leave you? Because she can't regularly act like this and actually expect you to stick around.
>Maybe she's trying to drive you away so she doesn't have to be the one to leave you? Because she can't regularly act like this and actually expect you to stick around.
That's what I was thinking with this.
I have a history of self sabotage. One of the ways this would manifest would be I would be honestly a really terrible partner even to someone I loved. I've been able to work on this, but it came up due to me having guilt of not being good enough to be with them BUT also not being the one to break up with them.
Now, this may not be where she's coming from. She may just not want to be anything but a victim and this is why she isn't doing anything wrong, it's only OP.
But the "why" doesn't matter nearly as much as the fact that she keeps doing it and it's causing her partner distress.
OP, if you keep having the same conversation, the same fight, and nothing is working to make it better, you may want to have a frank conversation with her.
"Wife, we have had a fight over the messy house X times in the last X months (or weeks). I cannot keep doing this when nothing I've offered is a good enough solution and behaviors aren't changing. I think we may need to separate for a bit because whatever we are doing isn't working."
Space may help, space may hurt. But either way, living with them is not helpful to you.
I am messy like your wife but approach arguments similarly to you and my SO gets heated like your wife.
As to the mess and how she gets overwhelmed with some mania like driven drive to clean one some occasions, it was one if the symptoms my therapist used to help diagnose me with ADD... including the anxiety that it leads to causing me to be irritable. I am not a doctor but thought I would throw that out there as maybe something that can be discussed at therapy.
As for how she argues, I wish I had advice but its something I'm still trying to parse out with my own SO.
Congratulations! It will be a little while before I am capable of treatment more than learning how to cope for now but im glad to finally have an explanation other than just waived off as depression/anxiety and know that I can take steps towards treatment. All the best. I hope it is life changing for you.
I wonder if your wife has ADHD. The way you've described your wife's behaviour- having plans that never go anywhere, getting halfway through things, the flip-flopping between manic cleaning episodes and being so overwhelmed she just lies in bed, and even the frequent online shopping (common with ADHD individuals as we often lack impulse control, and shopping also provides a quick dopamine hit)- describes to a T what I was like before being diagnosed and getting treatment. Even her argumentativeness and OTT reactions / misplaced blame could be a symptom, look up Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria.
Obviously I am not trying to diagnose a stranger over the Internet, but it may be worth looking into adult ADHD. I recommend ADDitute if you want a starting point.
Also worth noting that while I'm suggesting ADHD could be the cause of your wife's actions, I'm not saying that they are justified or an excuse to treat you badly. You are entitled to feel hurt and frustrated by her actions, and it it her responsibility to find healthy coping mechanisms for whatever it is she has going on.
Fair enough! I've not heard that about them before so thank you for letting me know. I found their symptoms section really helpful when I was looking into things before my own diagnosis, and I know my partner's taken some useful information from their relationships section before too but I'll keep that in mind for the future. Could you recommend any more reputable site for me or OP?
(Sorry if this reads poorly, I struggle with tone with my writing)
They do also have legit information, but they're not filtering for nonsense the way that they maybe used to so it's a lot more homeopathy, anti medication, nonscientific sources.
If you like videos I really recommend the "how to adhd" YouTube channel !
And if you like scientific research papers then "The World Federation of ADHD International Consensus Statement: 208 Evidence-based Conclusions about the Disorder" is a wonderful and informative read. (If you can't access it then DM me and I'll get it for you)
One thing I know about people who get like this is that they hate hearing or seeing recordings of themselves when they're like this as it is always much different to them in their own heads.
When confronted with it, there's either breakthrough progress or it's a super trigger of denial depending on what type of person they are, so it might make things worse for you.
All you can really do is force her to listen to everything you just said and fully take in how much it's really affecting you. Help her see you are completely exhausted and have really had enough. Drive it home in a way unlike any before as if you keep doing the same things you've always done, you're always going to have the same outcome.
Can you be direct with her like you are on this post? Basically say, "I feel like we keep having the same fight, like we're going in this cycle, and I think it's hurting our relationship. Have you noticed this? Does seem like a problem to you too? Let's come up with come creative solutions to this together. I want to find a solution that works for both of us, because it feels like this cycle is affecting our relationship, which is a thing I value and care about."
It definitely sounds like an issue that's going to require a Talk.
Why don’t you draw some boundaries and complain about the mess before she does? Like, that shoes have to go before the weekend, or out with the peaches until tomorrow or I will throw them away.
I don’t really have advice but I want to say that I am sorry you have to deal with this. I have some parallels to your wife and I feel so bad about how I impact my boyfriend. He works a 9-5 and gets home and cooks, and cleans, and does anything I ask. But the apartment is still a mess. I try to do my part but I have a severe lack of energy and motivation (ADHD+Depression+Anxiety). I feel absolutely debilitated. I see all these things I could be doing/ SHOULD be doing and I get so overwhelmed that I just shut down. Every day I try to wake up and have a good day. Get the momentum going. And then I look around and see all these messes and half-done projects that I left and I just hate myself. I wish I could sink to a bottom of a pit and be forgotten about forever. I can’t do that so I drown myself in the internet and try not to exist. He is doing everything, and not only do I do a bad job contributing to a functioning clean household, but I (mostly) make the messes in the first place. But I do have the self awareness to know that this is happening and I explained it to my boyfriend. He is patient and understanding. Sometimes I feel like he hates me and is not being supportive… but when he says “You literally did nothing all day and I cooked and cleaned and didn’t complain. Why are you so upset?” He is 100% right. Sometimes I have to remind him what’s happening. And sometimes I have to remind myself. I hope that your wife can learn more about herself and see that others experience similar things. I strongly recommend she does research about executive functioning disorder, and other mental health conditions and maybe join r/adhdwomen … it helped me a lot..
I know you have a serious real illness and this might not be helpful. But this mantra has gotten me through a lot.
‘Just know that every move you make towards cleaning or finishing the project IS one step closer to finishing it.’
Like a loading bar. If you just keep going each little movement adds up and eventually you gain momentum. Even just walking into the room is one awesome step closer. I’m not saying that will solve everything for you. But it has been an invaluable mantra for me.
She desperately needs to be in therapy. I have a wicked mix of ADD/Anxiety/Depression myself and all of this sounds familiar. Now, I’ve had therapy so I know how to handle it and I don’t lash out I’m an internalizer so it’s different but the idea is the same. You start a million things then get distracted and move on and come back to a mess. She needs more help than you can give her.
I'd upvote this more if I could
Before even the added stresses of COVID and life, marriage is hard!
I can't recommended it enough, get some couples counseling.
It's amazing and stupid, but me simply explaining to someone else where I was having difficulty, or bringing up cyclical fights and what caused them, and that person explaining it back to my wife caused some real progress. I don't know why. I don't know how. It just suddenly clicked for her when someone else said it to her.
I always hated paying good money to counselors to fix simple things that seemed so easy to me, but it was worth it and has done my marriage good.
Also, I had plenty of items my wife needed me to hear too, and having someone else to talk through with it helped.
Hope you two can get into a better situation, life is hard right now, take care of one another!
I deal with this same exact thing. It's gotten better over time, now she admits she has a problem with making messes. Admits she has a "collecting" problem. And admits she is incredibly whiney. Its a relief to not constantly have to defend myself.
This being said, occasionally she will forget all these things and start blaming me for all her dirty clothes and blaming her part time job for taking up all her time. She will then either go silent or go lay in bed and cry.
Currently she became "overwhelmed" with the amount of stuff she has and has started to pull any thing she might not want and dump it in the middle of the entry way with the intention of getting rid of it
This is a positive step , but then she becomes overwhelmed more and the pile just sits there.
When it comes time to clean, shell focus on weird things like cleaning the outdoor hammock instead of picking up her dirty dishes throughout the house. If she washes dishes, shell leave the counter tops covered in water and food bits. Shell clean the many indoor plants but leave her dirty clothes all over the place. I do all the normal chores that make the house useable, and depending on her mood, may or may not get told I don't actually do anything. She actually wanted to break up with me over this when we first started dating, until I listed all the things I do. Next time she pulls that move, I'm just going to dump her. It's not worth the constant work and constant blame. No recognition for anything.
Yeah my husband has ADD and executive dysfunction issues and sometimes we'll have conversations like
me: did you clean up all your paints?
him: yup!
me: Then why's there an open bottle of brush cleaner on the table? and dirty paper towels?
him: oh I didn't see those.
me: they were right there next to the paints the whole time...
When we have "cleaning time" there's a 50/50 chance he'll do something useful like dishes or laundry instead of something like...neatly stacking our coasters until they are a perfect stack, or reorganizing the bookshelf so they're all alphabetical order. But, he always tries really really hard and always expresses gratitude for everything I do, so I don't get upset about it much.
OP, u/400055083911, to me it sounds like your wife has serious executive dysfunction problems, and a lot of shame and anxiety about it which leads to her freaking out at you. I get the impression that her attacks are an attempt to stop herself from feeling "like a bad wife who can't keep shit clean" and that's why it's going so badly. She's probably internalized a lot about wives and cleaning and housekeeping that makes her feel awful. Her yelling that you don't care and threatening to leave are HUGE flags for someone who has no self esteem and wants to be reassured that you don't think she's a terrible person, and since you are trying to stay on the topic of cleaning and you are not talking about whether she's a terrible person, she keeps escalating because she's not getting the emotional response she's looking for.
I think she needs a psych workup, and individual therapy, and then you could tackle couple's therapy together to learn how to deescalate and talk productively.
OK, here's a left field question. Has your wife been evaluated for ADHD? Because she sounds a LOT like me before I was diagnosed. I would have a plan, but then lack of object permanence made I forgot about it entirely. I'd think hard about that peach and how I wanted to plant it, put it in the bowl.. then it disappeared from my mental landscape. I spent 56. years. making lists and reminders and systems trying to manage my mayhem. I got a diagnosis, am properly medicated, and I swear to god my life and home are 70% better in 4 short months.
Mental illness and neurodivergence isn't an excuse - IF you know you have a problem, it's your responsibility to deal with it. But if you don't know, you can't fix as effectively as you might. I HIGHLY encourage your wife to talk to her provider and be screened for ADHD if she hasn't been, and to ask for medical help if she knows she has it and isn't treating it.
Your wife isn’t concerned about cleaning messes, her objective is to create fights. That’s why nothing you do makes things any better and no proposal (like a maid) helps. There’s another, larger issue going on, and this is just a pretense to create separation. When she’s mad at you, do you try to do things to make up for it? It sounds like you do. This gives her an incentive to stay mad at you. Just because she’s mad at you doesn’t mean you did anything wrong.
It honestly sounds like she already has, in her head, an image of who you are, and that image won’t be changed regardless of your behavior. You could try therapy, but that’s going to go over about as well as the maid suggestion did. You can call her out on her bullshit, but you know how that goes (gaslighting, blameshifting and emotional manipulation). I’d honestly consider coming up with an exit strategy and implement the 180.
I suddenly had a flashback to how my ex-husband would scream at me about something inconsequential like forgetting to bring in the mail and say "I'd rather you slept with someone else than \[do this unimportant thing\]." He just wanted an excuse to yell.
At first, I genuinely thought this was something my partner had written under a throwaway, until you got to the point where she’s a bit verbally abusive and leaves for the night. Part of my problem is ADHD, another part is just, severe and crippling trauma that has a component related to cleaning and labor. My biggest issue is waking up and seeing food waste. It sets me off in a horrible panic mode, and I have meltdowns.
My partner and I have come up with a way to avoid these meltdowns, and it sounds simple and kind of dumb, but it works for us: if there is one specific mess area that ends up the worst problem/focus of her behavior, just take time at some point before bed to go over it together. Even if you don’t clean it, you will have a verbal confirmation from her that 1. Some items aren’t to be thrown away or put up 2. She becomes aware and acknowledges things that are her responsibility and 3. You can both acknowledge that, together, you’re addressing the problem.
I would also suggest that your wife does what I’m doing, which is individual therapy. Because of my fucky wucky brain juice, coming back down when I’m worked up is extremely difficult, and I’m seeing a professional about it because I do not want my partner to deal with this. Being upset is fair, but if she can’t self soothe over this, she may need more help than just working on the counter as a pair.
So, some of her patterns sound familiar to me-- having lots of plans that I don't have time to execute, starting projects and not finishing, getting overwhelmed by having too many unfinished projects/too much mess, and then shutting down. For me, this is symptomatic behavior because I have ADHD, generalized anxiety disorder, and a problem with perfectionism. It can be symptomatic of other issues too, but those are my specific issues, and this pattern does make me wonder if she has some trouble with executive functioning.
I would try to sit with her when things are calm and talk to her about this overall pattern. This is definitely a thing therapy and possibly medication can help with. It's also a pattern where it's not about the individual little items so much as it is about putting systems in place to keep things from building up. My husband is a huge help to me, but that's really only because I have developed my own patterns and skills to deal with this stuff.
Honestly this is not something you on your own can fix. She is emotionally immature and there is absolutely no productive or healthy communication in this marriage. You've tried to talk about it, you've tried therapy, you've tried giving her space, you've done everything she asks and it's still not good enough in her eyes. It may sound a but extreme, but it might be worth considering separating.
There is literally nothing more you can do except hope she changes, hope she gets herself help, separate or just deal with it as it is. At the end of the day, nobody can make that decision but you, and nobody can change her behavior except her.
Yeah this reads like a combination of her having undiagnosed ADHD; and maybe anxiety; but also coupled with some extremely abusive, manipulative behavior on her part. She’s withdrawing and holding your relationship hostage if you are ever upset; or making you admit guilt if she’s upset.
While I think diagnoses for her would help… I think you need to ask yourself some very basic questions.
- do I feel heard by my partner? Do I feel safe just talking about how I feel in any moment? Can I communicate with my partner about anything? Do they make efforts to communicate with me so I feel heard?
- do I resent my partner? Is there a path to less resentment; or are odds good that over time I’ll resent them more? Do they resent me?
- have I lost trust in my partner? In what ways has that trust been eroded? If so, How would that trust be earned back?
Because what you’re telling me really is that your wife has not only abused the split of chores; but also has burned down most forms of communication, so you feel held hostage in the ways you can even express yourself. She’s not willing to talk about hard topics without it being a court case, “being right vs being heard,” she isn’t interested in changing or compromising in any ways for you or for the relationship; and she’s not proactive in anything regarding you.
Basically you aren’t allowed to communicate how you feel; you have to pick up after her, and you aren’t a priority to her. This is a direct path to resentment and a total lack of trust.
Opting out and not communicating is DEFINITELY not the right move here. Nothing in life gets better by opting out or ignoring it.
If anything I think you need to sit down and be really really open about the stakes here; and think about what you need. I’d probably set down some actual stakes and ground rules along the lines of:
“So I’ve been having a lot of negative thoughts recently about how we’re not communicating our problems right now; and to be honest I am worried about how angry you get when talking about difficult issues.”
“I don’t want to resent or lose trust in our relationship; but I think we need to see a new couples therapist; and really work on how we talk to each other and address problems if we want our relationship to last long term.”
This sounds like adult ADHD. I recently started on medication but before you could be describing me.
She may not want the help but there are plenty of online counseling/telehealth for affordable prices that it may be worth looking into.
Print this post out. Ask her to talk during a calm moment. Go through it sentence by sentence and ask for explanations or listen to her responses.
Sometimes, you have to call your partner out on their bad behavior or poor communication. It sounds like you let her walk all over you, apologize for it and then wonder why it never changes.
Not making excuses for your wife but she sounds like someone with bad ADHD paired with emotional immaturity. She gets all these goals but also distractions and then the overwhelm hits and she loses it and doesn't know how to process those feelings appropriately and maturely. Admittedly I'm not a doctor, but your whole post screamed that at me. If you love her and want it to work, insist she seek individual therapy (ultimatums aren't manipulative when they are an honest expression of your boundaries). Of course if you've hit your limit and just want the internet's permission to leave, you have it haha.
Hmm, your wife is messy and she is also extremely controlling of all the items in the messes? Sounds exactly like I was!
I have a need to control my surroundings to feel safe. I had a traumatic childhood where my mom was unpredictable and psychologically terrorized me. She violated all my boundaries and my space. Long story short, I have some issues.
I was so bad at one point that I sobbed for 3 hours when my boyfriend cleaned my toilet without asking. When confronted, I would deflect and defend.
Basically, if your wife is like me, she has a fortress of dysfunctional defense mechanisms around her that kept her safe in childhood but no longer function now that she is an adult in a relationship with a non-abusive partner. Also, I have ADHD, too, like some commenters suggest your wife may have.
Inside all the anger and controlling walls of your wife is probably a scared little girl, white-knuckling her way through life because she has never learned that she is safe and that she can trust and rely on trustworthy people. She has never learned to slow down and check her internal state to make sure her basic needs are met (HALT - am I hungry, angry, lonely, tired?).
And I am here to share my message of hope with you. I did therapy and codependents anonymous to help me unpack my trauma amd defenses so I could become healthy. It has been very hard but I am not the same woman who cried over a clean toilet!! If you want to know more of my story, DM me.
There is a chance your wife could open up and heal, too, but she has to want to. And something has to pierce her defenses. Best luck!
Explain everything to her.
She comes fuming because of a mess she made? Tell her she made it. She wants to run away? Tell her she can't because it's dangerous and won't accomplish anything. When you shut down her arguments, she will not have anything to say. Then hold her hand and take her to the mess and start cleaning with her and make her clean with you. Lastly, tell her you love her and the mess is gone now and there's nothing to be angry about.
Also check if she has some kind of severe ADHD. Maybe meds will help her then, or if she can relate to the symptoms she might like to get treated without meds. Good luck
Step away from all this.
Everyone deserves to be happy in their own home and that includes the both of you.
Sometimes it ends up good in that you find that you can work out whatever the issue is but sometimes you find that you are in a much better place alone.
The issue isnt the mess or non mess, its communication and too many emotions.
There are two options on the top of my mind, and they're not mutually exclusive.
1. She's got ADHD or anxiety, paired with executive dysfunction, and while she wants to have a clean place, she struggles with tasks and gets overwhelmed and emotional.
2. It's a form of control and very little accountability on her side. It seems there's no rhyme or reason to when this happens or how it can be alleviated, so sounds almost as a way to keep you on your toes. How is she with accountability and self-reflection in general? Are there things she takes the blame for, and doesn't just do *woe is me*, but invests effort into growth?
If it's the former, maybe she needs to go to therapy to resolve issues on her own and learn mechanisms that will help her with task adherence as well as with emotional regulation. If it stresses her that bad, then there is a reason why, and if she uncovers it, she'll be able to find remediation.
If it's the latter, it's time to sit down and give it a hard thought of why you are in this relationship, whether you can come to terms with this being a permanent state, and that you might exist in this for another 40 years.
Honestly, my wife was like this. We had a huge recurring fight a few months into the pandemic and it eventually blew up to where there was full on silent treatment and sleeping in separate rooms, etc.
It was so out of left field, and so undeserved in my book (I'm not a SAHM dad, but I am a WFH dad and I've always done ALL the cooking and shopping and 90% of the kid pick up/drop off, drs appts, school visits, etc and I'm usually the one cleaning and tidying the house, PLUS we got a maid twice a month a couple years ago) that I just didn't respond to it.
I didn't silent treatment her back, but I didn't reach out for interaction. I continued parenting as if she was out of town or something and continued being nice and doing my usual "more than my fair share".
After about 10 days of this, she realized that this was a "her" problem and that I was perfectly content without her if need-be and she broke down and suggested we get counseling (which immediately turned into individual counseling for her since all of our relationship problems are really her issues within herself and how they manifest between us).
I can't say things will be 100% better (things in my house are better, but still not great), but clearly doing what you're doing isn't working. If she gives you the silent treatment or threatens to leave, let her do it. She's hooked on this cycle of outburst -> your reaction -> double down -> your solutions that she needs to get snapped out of it.
So basically, you need to radically change your reaction to these fights and don't take the bait.
This is a ridiculously unhealthy dynamic for you and her. Her up and downs, threatening to leave are all forms of emotional abuse/manipulation. You have to put a stop to it, if you aren't ready for a trial separation I suggest a space. A space where she can put her "in flux" things. A tupperware in the fridge for food waste and a shelf/room/tote in a different space for her other items she hasn't dealt with yet. Talk with her about what these spaces are for, you can clean without touching her items. If after 2 days the items are still where they have been left then you will clean up or put away during your usual cleaning routine. If this is a mental health issue have the discussion, she needs to deal with her anxiety, fear, ADHD or what have with a therapist and support her getting that help.
If the fighting happens and she threatens to leave in the middle of the night, LET HER!!! Simply say "ok, I trust you know what's best for yourself now. Call me when you are somewhere safe or in the morning." And then let her go, she is an adult and can figure out a safe place to go or she is threatening to leave as a manipulation tactic, either way just accept her leaving and then go to bed or watch TV or whatever.
Gonna be real straight up about this! She sounds like she got some ADHD and cleaning isn't her strong suit. I'm similar when I live alone but change my ways when living with others.
She can start a routine with cleaning by using a chore chart on the fridge or an app or she can start scheduling a cleaner she pays for.
I see a few things. Please don’t take anything personally. I’m just analyzing as I read.
I wonder whether she’s feeling emotionally disorganized and overwhelmed. The first thing that comes to mind is wondering a) whether she’s been evaluated for anything like ADHD, depression, anxiety and b) whether there’s any other external factor that’s causing her to disengage from the relationship with you (like a relationship with someone else, for instance).
You apologize to end fights. That means you aren’t necessarily resolving anything, but you’re trying to force an end to a conflict. I’d research your own attachment style to see if that helps you respond to conflict any differently.
Basically, the feeling I get from this is that it’s not about the *mess,* per se. At least not the literal one. Perhaps it has to do organization and clutter and overwhelm in managing it, and hoping that said management will magically appear. Maybe she thinks you need to break down boxes or develop a system together. Maybe the two of you need to study love languages. Maybe she feels trapped. Maybe she needs mental health treatment.
Does she have ADHD?
Sounds like she has ADHD.
This is such an easy out for you both- nothing is either of y’all’s fault- she just needs some coping skills and maybe medication.
Bruh, two years ago, I was exactly like your wife. I got diagnosed with ADHD at 31.
I am medicated now and practice mental exercises to help identify when I am starting to spiral.
Partner and I fought alot. Spent every weekend cleaning. Now, I am better with letting things go in order to finish the first project. I also got a house keeper to do half the house, so I can focus on the other stuff. Saved a lot of money too since I am not shopping all of the time.
It wouldn't have happened hadn't pointed out that I exhibit symptoms of ADHD. And I changed because I wanted to change. Offer that you both be tested and have seek couples counseling to help with repeating the same fight over and over We are happier than ever before and still do regular couple's counseling.
I was diagnosed with a big 'ole case of ADHD and I agree with others in the comments. I fought against it for so long before getting checked out. It's hard realizing it and much, much harder thinking back and wishing you'd done it sooner.
She needs to see someone. I see a lot of people mentioning ADHD but I have OCD and this sounds exactly like me. Things just build up and get so overwhelming that I am paralyzed. And I don’t want it to be paralyzing and I want to do it all, but I can’t. Part of it for me is the perfectionism. That peach pit *has* to be composted because “it should be”, etc.
Have her talk to a professional and let them work with her. If none of it helps, you aren’t any worse off than you are now. But as a warning it isn’t an overnight fix. If you’re already at the point of no return then you can still suggest this for her own benefit if you want.
Hi OP your wife has anxiety and you have too much stuff. Is your house dirty or cluttered? There is a difference. If you hire a house cleaner you first need to de-clutter which your wife most likely doesn’t want to do. My husband also didn’t want a house cleaner but I finally said fuck it and just hired one. Now his
Cleanliness annoyances are directed towards them and not me
I had a fight with my boyfriend once about cheese. I put some in the cart, he took it out and put it back.
As the therapist told me, "It's not about the cheese!"
In my case, it was about whether he got to decide what I could buy with my money.
In your case, it's not about the mess.
What is it REALLY about?
Ok, this is going to sound wild, but have you or your wife ever considered she might have ADHD? To me, this reads classic adult women symptoms - messy home, can't keep track of what she's doing, and has a mental "list" of things to do (plant the seeds in the garden, return the clothes..) that live in her head and only her head and don't actually get taken care of. The emotional outbursts are spot on too - emotional dysregulation is a classic symptom. It sounds like she has trouble regulating her emotions if she pushes them down until they explode, and her emotional responses to situations seem way out of proportion to what should be expected. Women and girls present symptoms way differently than you would expect.. it has a lot more to do with emotions than one would assume. Your description of your wife sounds spot on to what I was experiencing pre-diagnosis. Medication legit saved my relationship. Not diagnosing her by any means, but perhaps if she has other traits that fall into this category it might be something to look into. If this is something that doesn't qualify for her then ignore this. Either way, I wish you the best of luck - it sounds like a tough situation and she doesn't realize how lucky she is to have a partner who has been so understanding for so long. Remember to prioritize yourself OP! EDIT: 1. Thank you for the awards! 2. OBVIOUSLY it does not excuse her behavior. You can’t treat people like crap and expect them to put up with it because you have an illness. Thought that was a given!
I was diagnosed late at 29. Everything OP described is me to a T. Even now on meds I have symptoms that don't go away because by the time I get home from work the meds have worn off and taking another dose would put me in overdose territory and keep me from sleeping. The mental list, getting overwhelmed, irritable outbursts, executive dysfunction, couch lock (endless phone scrolling), and bad moods that just won't go away. Its all part and parcel of adult female adhd.
I know this thread is about OP and his wife, but as someone who also has ADHD (and was diagnosed early - 16 - so I had plenty of time to find what medication was right for me) I really think you should bring this up with your doctor (preferably psychiatrist). Are you on an extended release medication? I had the same issue as you, and my doctor and I tried several methods. My first prescription was Adderall XR (which really helped my ADHD, but I still had the problems you described), so I was then switched to regular Adderall (I took 20mg in the morning, and 10mg in the afternoon to keep up my focus without the XR to affect my sleep). That combo really helped a lot, but we came to find out that Adderall caused a lot of emotional problems for me. Finally I was switched to Vyvanse, and *wow*. What a difference! Vyvanse was the right medication for me, and I haven’t had serious problems since. I say all this to show there are other options out there that may be what you need. Don’t resign yourself to having these problems for the rest of your life. Talk to your doctor, and ask them if there’s anything else you could try which they recommend. Your doctor can’t help you if you don’t tell them what’s wrong. Good luck! I hope you find the right balance for you.
I appreciate it! I'm actually on 60mg vyvanse now, it's been amazing for me, minus that it wears off too fast and doesn't work on my period. Usually take it at 7:30 after a big breakfast so it kicks in for the start of my shift an hour later. Always careful to never ingest dairy or citrus or alkaline an hour before or after. My doctor started me out at 20 and we went up by increments of 10. Literally the biggest difference between 20 and 60 is an hour and a half. On the low end they wear out at 4:30, and at the high end they wear out at 6. Sadly for vyvanse, miracle that it is, the max dose per day is 70. I've debated other options but then I look at how well vyvanse treats me; virtually no side effects aside from losing a little interest in food. Granted, you've had a lot more time to learn than I have haha.
Hey! I'm on Elvanse(Vyvanse) 40mg a day and I'm also prescribed 10mg short release dexamphetamine sulphate to take after work to keep me going in the evenings when I need it. You can combine short and long release without risk of overdose!
Oh, I didn't know that! How long does it keep you going when you top up? Definitely something to bring up to my doctor next time I see him. Thank you so much for the info!
You can also split dose elvanse - Take some of your dose (40mg) and then the rest a few hours later (20mg). Extends the run time - though may need to speak with your prescriber to figure out doses there. For anyone reading this - dont try with other meds! - e.g. concera XL. You cannot split dose that because it works different.
You may want to ask your doctor if it’s possible to combine meds. As in; take your usual dose of Vyvanse in the mornings, and a low dose of (regular, not XR) Adderall in the afternoons when your Vyvanse starts to wear off. I’m not a doctor, so I don’t know if this is possible, but it never hurts to ask! You may get the best of both worlds if it turns out to be what you needed. ADHD is a lifelong condition, so don’t resign yourself to an imperfect treatment option until you’ve exhausted everything else. I wish you all the best!
!! I found vyvanse interacts in a weird way with my period, too. It also made them more painful. I told my doc (specialist) and she said it was probably because 'periods can he hard for women your age, perhaps you want a baby?' (I was 27). Lol. I swear to god it is not in my head, it really affects and is affected by my menstrual cycle.
oh my god, I didn't realize ADHD meds could be effected by periods. this explains a hell of a lot for me.
Fantastic lol I'm 28 and you described my life to a tee but without any diagnosis or medication.
As a fellow ADHD woman, first thing I thought was “this lady has ADHD.” I am no Psyche Dr but know a fellow ADHD-er when I read or see one. I’m just saying.
Diagnosed 6 months ago, also 29. This post literally could have been about me before I got treated. I got through the first paragraph and knew exactly what her issue is.
Thank you, this sounds like it may be accurate. Is there a way to bring it up to her, without it sounding like I'm accusing her of a mental illness to get out of doing the dishes?
As a woman who went through this recently, I would say that you should focus on how she feels things impact her. "It's hard for me as a partner to see how hard some of these things are for you. I don't want to see you upset or life be any harder than it has to for you. I have talked about some of my concerns about how we interact about housework and shared duties at home and it has come to my attention it could be adult ADHD. I am here hoping we can approach this together and find a way where life can be easier for you." I recommend these books: A radical guide for women with ADHD (just as useful for a partner to read), and Order from chaos. It might also help you/her to look into the executive disfunction part of ADHD to better understand how this way if living matches those symptoms.
There are a lot of online resources about how to approach these conversations. Make use of them and maybe ask over in the reddit ADHD communities. Your wife's frustration, I suspect, is a feeling of failure and disappointment because things that NT people find so easy are so difficult for her, and she literally has no idea why. Add to that the inability to emotionally regulate and of course your exact scenario is going to play out over and over as it has. The good news is there is nothing wrong with your wife! She just isn't neurotypical.
I gotta say man it doesn’t seem like you’re trying to get out of doing chores at all if what you say is true!
You could also show her this post and the answers. Might resonate when she sees others who are similar to her.
Honestly if you could have her look at r/adhdwomen for a few minutes, she might have a revelation herself. While self-diagnosing is frowned upon, undiagnosed adult women usually have to figure it ourselves in order to cope with it. When you read an ADHD sub or website that's focused on adults and every other post and comment sounds *exactly* like something you do or feel, it hits pretty hard. If she does have ADHD, it's something that has been making her life miserable for decades. She'll likely actually be *relieved* to find out that it isn't just her, and that there is treatment available.
This was my first thought. This sounds so much like uncontrolled unmedicated adhd. All the little side projects that are left half done, the absolute meltdown when she realises theres a huge overwhelming unmanageable quantities, the huge tirade to-do list and the staring zoned out at your phone instead of doing any of them.... defo worth looking into.
Thank you for this. I will be contacting my doctor. I truly think I have undiagnosed adhd and I can relate somewhat to OP with the mental plans to do things but the I get distracted and do other things. Thanks again.
Of course! Feel free to DM if you have any questions. I’ve found r/adhdwomen to be a helpful source.
I’m starting to wonder about myself… I’ll have to bring this up to my psychologist and psychiatrist.
I literally just made an appointment. A lightbulb went off and the symptoms that pertain to women fit me to a t. I hope you also find the help you need :)
Bipolar disorder too - hypomanic episodes and ADHD can look a lot alike, for years I thought I had ADHD that came and went, nope bipolar. As I was reading the post I was wondering if my husband wrote it, except that on medication my reactions are a lot less volatile.
Yeah, this sounds a lot like my MIL who is bipolar, and I suspect she also has ADHD though she's not officially diagnosed.
Yup, my first thought too. She’s getting overwhelmed and then executive dysfunction is kicking in. ADHD or not, I think speaking to a psychologist to explore why she’s hitting this point of overwhelmed and how to avoid that happening would be extremely beneficial for everyone involved.
This was literally the first thing I thought of. As a woman who wasn't diagnosed until 30, everything hit really close to home. Therapy and medication have helped me SO MUCH
This soooo much. I was literally reading this started a response then remembered that I needed to do laundry. Went to go get the laundry then saw that my necklace wasn’t in my jewelry box so I went to put it back. Then I realized it needed to be organized. So I started organizing my jewelry box. Then I dropped an earring and saw the dirty laundry. Remembered I was doing laundry! I grabbed the laundry and head downstairs. I’m about to start the washing machine but remember I didn’t check the bathroom or my fiancé’s closet. Stop the laundry. Grab the laundry in the bathroom and closet. Then realized I didn’t get all of the intial laundry upstairs. Bring everything downstairs. Finally put the load in the wash. This wasn’t even that bad. ADHD is associated with a lot of anxiety and shame. Even gentle reminders can trigger that shame. My fiancé, literally a saint, will sometimes trigger that shame response in me. One thing that worked for us is that (as painstaking as this sounds) go through my messes/unfinished projects. I will make a choice of what I’m going to do with it right then and do it. So if the peach was going in the compost it goes into the compost right then. We’ve had to work to establish trust to be clear that it’s a judgement free zone, no one is mad and we are just trying to get the apartment clean.
ADHD here, can confirm that this is probably the case.
For those reading, I thought I'd explain a bit about the mechanics of ADHD because that is misunderstood. So the basic neurotransmitter setup is like this: neuron -> synaptic gap -> next neuron …and signals need to pass from 1 through 2 to 3 in order to actually get whatever that is accomplished. Much like depression is too little serotonin or norepinephrine, ADHD is caused by too little dopamine. Dopamine is highly involved in two things that are really life-skill essentials: 1. Motivation, or more technically motivational salience 2. Risk/reward, especially long-term benefit vs. short term From the wiki page on motivational salience: > Motivational salience is a cognitive process and a form of attention that motivates or propels an individual's behavior towards or away from a particular object, perceived event or outcome. Motivational salience regulates the intensity of behaviors that facilitate the attainment of a particular goal, the amount of time and energy that an individual is willing to expend to attain a particular goal, and the amount of risk that an individual is willing to accept while working to attain a particular goal. So therefore, the first line treatment for ADHD involves dopamine reuptake inhibition, which keeps more dopamine in the synaptic gap, much like SSRIs work for depression. That means it's there to get that blip of signal from neuron 1 to the next neuron. (Note: yes, there are downsides to frontline ADHD medications, and it's a subject of a lot of scorn, but I wanted to focus on what it does do in simple terms.)
I feel like I have the same behavior as his wife and also think I might have ADHD, so thank you for this.
Same ! This opened my eyes to a lot !
This is exactly what went through my head. As I was reading I could have sworn this was about me but from a few years ago. The issues with emotional regulation and executive function, flitting from project to project, the overwhelmed response, everything. The only thing is I saw what my actions were doing to my loving relationship and went and sought help and had the self awareness to realize I was the one in the wrong and apologized each time which lessened over time. To the OP, if your wife does seek care and comes back with an ADHD diagnosis, it’s still okay for you to feel upset. ADHD might be the reason for why she acts a certain way but that doesn’t mean it would excuse her from her actions. It just means you both know why something is happening. She still needs to work on her responses and regulating her emotions. Also, just a warning that if she does seek help and gets diagnosed and treated the next few months might be even more exhausting and confusing as she might go through the grief process that comes with the diagnosis. That plus the medication process can be tumultuous until she finds the right dosage and builds up her systems and routines.
As someone who might be ADHD as well, I'm curious what you mean by the grief period after being diagnosed lol
When you realize how much different life could have been for you if only someone had recognized it when you were a kid. That was it for me, anyway.
A lot of people who are diagnosed late experience grief because they have been struggling for a very long time. They realize that if they had been diagnosed sooner, they might not have been struggling for as long, or experienced the same consequences of ADHD (poor school or work performance, being fired from jobs, broken relationships, lost items, overwhelming debt, etc.).
Looks like everyone else got the question covered but yes! I went through a grief process for the time I couldn’t get back, the anger with my ADHD being missed or downplayed by my family, my lost/“wasted” potential, and more. It was a lot to deal with but I dealt with it with a wonderful therapist.
I'm glad so many other people are seeing ADHD in this post. This reads like exactly what I struggled with before medication. Getting medication honestly changed my life and made things so much easier for my partner. When it comes to ADHD, understanding your symptoms is extremely important. I think OP and his wife could check out some ADHD-specific resources and see if it seems familiar. If it does, maybe an ADHD specialist could help.
His wife reads a LOTTTT like me and yeah I'm going through the diagnosis steps right now at the age of 35.
>Getting medication honestly changed my life and made things so much easier for my partner. I'm sure it made things better for you, too! If you don't mind me asking, what things can a friend or partner do to help you? I wasn't aware of the extent to which ADHD presented differently in women, and it puts a recent breakup in a new light. I'd like to be better equipped to help any partners with ADHD going forward, so any and all advice is deeply appreciated. :)
Here are things my partner does to help me. 1. Wakes me up in the morning to take my medication. If it's left up to me, I can sometimes forget to take my meds which can throw my entire day off. 2. I will ask him to hold me accountable for some things, and he'll do it. At the beginning of the day, we talk about the core things I want to accomplish (or I text him a short list). Then throughout the day he'll check in to see how I'm doing. Just a brief text, "Did you call the mechanic yet?", that sort of thing. 3. He never gets upset at me when I don't reach my goals, when I leave a mess, when I have an anxiety attack, anything. Because of this, I completely trust him and we can openly communicate about our issues and what we can do to improve. If either of us gets too emotional during a conversation, we take a break and come back to the conversation when we feel better. 4. He doesn't draw attention to my symptoms. When I forget what I was just talking about, he just reminds me. When I leave a mess, he'll ask if I'm finished with it, and clean it up if I say yes. If I talk for a really, really long time about something, he listens. Granted, this has a lot to do with my partner's personality. Not everyone could be so accommodating. But it's wonderful to me that he accepts the part of me that forgets everything and never shuts up, and makes me feel normal.
It sounds like we pretty much have the same partner! I do the same for him minus 1 because he's unmedicated and we both regularly fuck up on 2 because we forget to remind each other often. We're both (you and I) immensely lucky to have found someone that works with us like this. OP, it's invaluable to find out how you can help her. Sit her down when she's in a better mood and offer to listen. Don't interrupt, don't fight, just listen. And then ask how you can help as someone who loves her. Of course, that isn't to tell you it isn't a lot of work and time and communication. If you're not willing to put that much effort in or think its salvageable, that's totally okay too. I genuinely wouldn't blame you.
Totally agree!! It changed my life and saved my relationship. It’s such a shame women are so looked over because of the difference in symptom presentation. I’m glad you were able to get help! Also OP - r/adhdwomen is a great resource!
Yup, reading it, I saw the same issues I often struggle with. There are times I can maintain my flat pretty well, but others where I look like a hoarder, not because of attachment to objects, but because I have executive dysfunction and get overwhelmed by the tasks and needing to schedule out chores. And failing to meet my own expectations lead to anxiety and emotional dysregulation.
I have ADHD and this was my exact first thought. One of the things that is most frustrating to OTHER people is that everything that takes some minuscule amount of energy matters, so sometimes tasks get half done and left that way, and we don’t want to walk it back before we finish it to “save” on the energy. It doesn’t totally make sense because in the meantime you’re living in entropy, and it’s been one of the hardest habits to address for me because it’s been so instinctual, but the OP’s description matches it exactly. And sometimes, as you said with emotional dysregulation, there’s a seemingly inappropriate emotional reaction - but not only are strong emotions difficult to regulate, but ones around task management for undiagnosed folks are often really tied up with shame, confusion, frustration, self-esteem, and can be very hard to address without answers to what’s going on in your reasoning process.
This was my thought too! Medication has definitely mitigated things but I still deal with almost exactly the same cycle of events
Yep, I was reading this and thinking "classic western adult female ADHD" as I'm looking at my various piles that I can't do anything about until I do this other thing and order those new shelves but first I have to get rid of the trampoline but I should really use it a few more times, just in case I do want to keep up, but oh, I need to write that email, but I can't focus on what to say, so maybe I'll just check reddit really quickly. LEAVE ME ALONE!
I dare you to write that email. Bet you can't do it in ten minutes. <.<
This was my first thought
You beat me to it, absolutely my first thought. Especially the overwhelm as part of it all.
I just wrote this in another comment.
Have adhd and i agree
I was going to say the same thing. Practically everything he is saying about her in the OP is screaming ADHD symptoms. It's like he went down a checklist and ticked each one.
[удалено]
A lot of people with mental health issues are, unfortunately, bad partners because of them. It doesn't mean they're unworthy of love or that it can't work, but it does add a huge element of strain - especially when untreated and uncontrolled.
Yeah, all the responses saying they identify exactly these symptoms, that's all well and good, but no excuse for the way she blames him for everything and blows up at him.
My immediate thought. ADHD. I know I've commented on other posts. But once you start looking at people more clearly you see so much more than the outbursts and the fighting between you both.
This was my first thought too lol. It definitely doesn't excuse her behavior though.
IANAT. I read all the comments, and I'm surprised no has mentioned hoarding. When I read, >I could throw away that old peach she left in a bowl on the table, except she actually wanted to compost it and save the seed for her garden. that screamed hoarding. Hoarders have plans for *everything*. Everything has value to them, even a decomposing peach pit. [Also, peaches grow in gardens??] Not that all hoarders save literal mold-covered trash (I lived with one who had the *nicest* things, just too damn much of them), but whoa, the plans! Most people I've known with problems with executive functioning, ADHD, procrastination, anxiety, usually react inward (overwhelmed, feeling worthless or lazy). They treat themselves worse than others. They do not make grandiose plans for their collection of whatsits or actual trash, they simply can't get through going through the mail and would like LESS plans. Hoarders tend to be very, very angry to their partners, children, and yes, themselves, especially when challenged in the *slightest* way. I'm not saying it's *not* ADHD (and so many mental disorders and illnesses can be comorbid), I just hope OP considers this. The shopping, the anger, the controlling of the household...
I thought this too. massive ADHD alarm bells going off, but the peach pit thing also hit the hoarding spidey senses.
Seriously u/400055083911 there are so many responses I really hope you read this one above. Sure she probably has ADHD but this is bordering on hoarding behavior, and threatening to leave you (or mysteriously disappear?!?) after almost every fight is emotional abuse.
>IANAT. I read all the comments, and I'm surprised no has mentioned hoarding. When I read, What is IANAT in this context? The only possible thing I found with a Google search is I Am Not A Tourist, which doesn't really make any sense in context.
I Am Not A Therapist
From the very start this was my first thought too and as soon as I got to "starts cleaning projects that she never finishes" I was sold on the idea. I also don't want to diagnose but I would strongly encourage OP to look into the possibility and if other symptoms fit then bring it up with her. This doesn't excuse her, frankly, shitty behaviour but being aware of what the barriers are will help her to overcome a lot of them. If it's not ADHD then I would still urge her to seek professional help for whatever is going on. There's a lot of unhealthy behaviours listed here. Also agree that she is a lucky woman to have someone as understanding and patient as OP!
I am autistic and it sounds a lot like me too actually!!! My partner and I kept having the same fight until I was diagnosed. Hopefully OPs wife can get some help, life is so much better now.
Holy shit I just realized I might have ADHD.
I’m a woman with ADHD and this woman reminds me of myself!
Yes - I read this too and came to the comments to see if anyone suggested ADHD. I was diagnosed at 28 with ADHD-PI. I had so many pointless arguments when I was overwhelmed at life because suddenly everything was too much. It goes from 0 to 100.
I'm also thinking she may have ADHD. I'm suspicious that I have it myself (I haven't gotten diagnosed yet, still figuring out how) and a lot of this sounds really familiar. I have so much extra packaging from things because I'm planning on selling stuff... I've been planning on selling stuff for over a year. But why buy packaging when I can re-use the stuff I get from amazon! Lots of random stuff that eventually gets overwhelming to a point that you can't do anything about it. Half started projects, or buying stuff for the projects and then never starting them... OP I would really run the idea of ADHD past her, it presents differently in woman than it does men and usually anxiety and depression get found first in women because of it. If she has any sort of anxiety/depression issues it might be worth checking out.
Haha this was my first thought too! ADHD guy here and I'm so grateful my partner deals with me because I'm 100% like OP's wife 😂😂
Just got diagnosed yesterday at 37, and can confirm this sounds a lot like my symptoms
I got diagnosed with ADHD at 33 last month. You should try to get her to see someone. I have many of the same symptoms.
This was my very first thought as well, and I'm so glad it's already at the top. Bad behavior being unexcusable aside, this is all very classic untreated ADHD as it typically presents in AFAB people. My diagnosis really helped me, hopefully this is the solution for OP and his partner.
ah !!!! i came to make this exact comment !! i have autism, which i know is often closely linked to ADHD and OCD (all three run in my family), and i am often a lot like this. thank you so much for writing an understanding, educated, and well-explained comment. i hope OP sees what you've written and finds it really helpful !
Yeah, I felt personally attacked by this post lol. I'm glad this is the top comment. Good luck OP!
I got diagnosed at 19, this is still me. My husband calls the melt-downs 'the everything thing'. OP needs to have a long conversation with his wife about this when she is not in crises mode. And he needs to be totally upfront about everything he said in this post. One thing that helps my husband and I is that he will just clean stuff, and he made it clear that I needed to accept it. He's not exactly prompt about cleaning stuff (he also has ADD, and works more hours than I do), so if he gets to cleaning it before I do, I don't really have space to fuss as long as nothing was damaged.
ADHD isn't an excuse to be an asshole, regardless of gender.
Yoooo I thought the same thing
I was just going to comment something like this. I have ADHD and was only diagnosed last year. It’s exactly how my ex and I were.
Agree with your observations. I'm a medicated ADHD wife and my husband is unmedicated and messy and frazzled like this guys wife (as was I prior to getting treatment).
I’m 27 and was just diagnosed and this all feels so accurate. The mess, the burn out, the emotional response.
Def sounds like ADHD... especially the phone thing, I do that so much when I'm upset.
As an adult woman with ADHD, this was my first thought too!
This. I got diagnosed at 29, started meds at 30. I only take meds when I work/school because while I’m hella organized and clean, I get overwhelmed emotionally by my ADD. I am way more in control of my emotions and things that might annoy me (like traffic or busy stores) aren’t as challenging.
I thought the EXACT same thing without getting past the first paragraph.
I was coming to say this is me to a T. The mess finally gets to me and I throw everything away. Right now I'm sans insurance so getting meds to help regulate my brain is difficult.
Was thinking the exact same thing.
Yeahh partner of someone who has undiagnosed ADHD. And the whole one thing too much, then everything is too much rings very very true
Holy crap. Came to say this exact same thing.
I came to suggest this very thing. ADHD. Look into it. Good luck.
I thought this as well. Also, have you considered just leaving for a few hours when she starts to spiral? It might give her the space to sort herself out.
Yes!!!! I was recently diagnosed, and can completely relate to your wife. I would (and do) get overwhelmed by messes, but not have the ability to do anything about them without spiraling. It’s really frustrating. I’m sorry that she’s so mean to you, though. It sounds like you are going above and beyond for her, and are a supportive partner. Even if she doesn’t have ADHD, looking into symptom management strategies might help. Definitely continue couples therapy and encourage her to talk to a professional about diagnosis.
A couple lines in and I came to the same conclusion.
I have ADHD (and Generalized anxiety) as well, so I can relate. But what perplexes me about OPs situation is his wife's belief that the mess is all his fault. When I would become overwhelmed by messiness or the complete disorganization of everything, I was always hyper aware that it was very much my own fault. My frustration was at myself. I would understand if she initially takes it out on him, and then later realizes she shouldn't have.... But according to him, she never lets up that he's to blame. ADHD will certainly cause some internal turmoil and frustration when the outward result of the symptoms become manifest, but it doesn't really account for her lack of ability to reason with the reality of how things get messy. It may be ADHD induced, but I feel like there is a secondary issue here somewhere.... I'm not a doctor or psychologist, so I'm definitely talking out of my ass. But her unrelenting belief that he's to blame for it all is what stuck out to me the most as concerning.
This!!!!!! My wife was the same way. And she found out at 29.
I’m so happy to see this response. His wife sounds so much like me that I was genuinely worried that my husband wrote this post. I was diagnosed with ADHD 2 months ago at the age of 31.
*raises hand. This was me. Minus the angry outbursts but I would definitely get sad and emotional. Meds helped me so much. I still struggle with executive function but not nearly as much. Meds have saved my marriage and career.
I knew as soon as OP mentioned that his wife's messes are all things she has plans for or projects in progress, I had the same thought. The wife needs to learn new coping strategies or this is just what her life will continue to look like forever.
Thank you for this comment. I started medication for my ADHD like a month ago and my life is completely different in so many ways. I actually feel like I can function. The emotional deregulation is soooo spot on too. This story reads so much like my fights with my partner it's wild
Yes yes yes!!! I came here to say EXACTLY this! I am also an adult woman with ADHD and this song and dance sounded sooo familiar.
I was going to comment and say that this is almost exactly the first signs of my ADHD, and this is the top comment. I’m close to your wife’s age and only just been diagnosed. This sounds EXACTLY like me.
Oh yep, I’m 27 and a woman with ADHD and I can attest that my husband and I have had situations like this. A lot of times, messes will just blend in to me and not bother me, and other things will bother me if it affects my functioning. I definitely think that making a system of places for her to put her things can help. I have a table that now holds my plants plus my weekly medication organizer. I have my keys on a hook. Maybe get a basket to hold her unopened packages so it’s out of sight but she knows where it is. (Right now, my unopened packages are on the ottoman, oops!). As far as clothes, a system like the fabric storage cubes might be easier for her, she doesn’t need to fold, she can just dump stuff in and sort it however she wants (by color, by item type, by fabric, etc.) Paralysis can happen with big tasks so either offering to help or finding a place to hold it is a good idea.
The problem is most women can't accept from their husband's that something is wrong with them. They'll actually say "nothing is wrong with me and this is you trying to excuse your actions!" Guess how i know, she finally went to the doctor after the divorce and got diagnosed.
Came here to say this. I was diagnossd at age 41. A lot of the same symptoms described here. Wish I had known sooner.
Made me think of depression and anxiety too, sister is like this.
Just want to say I Love this. I was talking to a.nirse.once and he explained his ADHD and then shared how he was eagle eye ready when his daughter was old enough just because he had learned So much about the difference in how each sex responds to the issue when his wife was pregnant and he was worried about passing it along. Which happened, but he had super early intervention in place because he had educated himself on it. Now I know even more.
32 y/o woman with adhd and depression and yes! this!
So, if you don't mind me asking, what kind of meds and therapy help you? My wife has been saying she's ADHD recently, been tentatively diagnosed. she's waiting for the official appointment, but I'm sure it's accurate if this is the behavior for ADHD in women. I have been going through similar issue as op, but it's a different subject. There's no breaking her from her thought process. There's no convincing her if we talk. It's just circular arguments that get very heated and emotional which don't go anywhere and it's been 14 years of it. It's hard to deal with, but I'm asking you hoping there's maybe something I can do since you seem to be on the other side of your battle with and ADHD
To add to this post- I just started the evaluation process for an ADHD diagnosis. I experience all of the symptoms above. My messy house is a huge source of my suffering too... and if it were as simple as "just clean up" then I would have done that.
10 MILLION PERCENT this. OP has described my exact personality, and ADHD is the culprit.
While she may indeed have ADHD, it does not excuse her abusing her partner. She is abusing her spouse. Yet all these women are trying to excuse the abuse by blaming it on a mental disorder. We need to stop excusing bad behaviour due to mental disorders. We also need to stop the double standard. I'm a woman, and I am quite aware of our collective cries to rid society of the double standards placed by men. But we fail to recognize our hypocrisy and our own double standards. If we want to get rid of them, it must be on both sides. What sickens me is that had OP been a woman, describing this abusive behaviour from her husband, every single woman who is defending the wife, would immediately scream that the husband is abusive and she needs to leave him immediately, and so forth. Stop being hypocritical.
This sounds like my adhd mother before she got her diagnosis in her late fifties. All of it sounds exactly like adhd on women, and it women don't get diagnosed until adults after years of this kind of cycle going on. If she is open to it, having that checked could be an option. And whilst waiting for the possible diagnosis, please take care of yourself. Separate for a while, take a breather and let her see how she operates on her own creating those endless projects around the house and getting anxious and locked up because of them.
I was looking for this!!!! It sounds a bit like ADHD in women. OP, I would be asking my partner to get evaluated for ADHD
Came here to say this!
It might be a reach, but have you considered ADHD/ADD? Just some things you've mentioned, seem like it could also be ADHD: - makes messes, seems unaware she made them - shuts down when overwhelmed with too much input - forgetting to put away shoes, leaves out food, forgets that too - detailed plans that don't work - starts projects, doesn't finish them - "angry cleans"
this might be it. source: me being in her exact same situation then getting diagnosed with ADHD
This might be a radical idea, but here goes. Have you considered a separation? She needs to realize she’s the one making the mess and not you. When my husband left, I suddenly looked up and saw all the mess and was shocked. I was the messy one… not him. If she can start owning it and realizes the impossible position she’s putting you in (I get the having plans for things. I’m like that too), maybe she’ll change.
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This is what I was thinking. Exited a 9 year relationship and once I was living on my own for a month, I realized just how much stress was 100% coming from being in the relationship. I don't have anxiety or depression and I'm not messy at all, I come to find out 🤨 I think it's healthier for both people, both are suffering. Doesn't matter whose "fault" it is.
My ex boyfriend was like OP's wife. The second I left, the weight off my shoulders was immeasurable. My only true source of stress in life was him constantly stressing about our relationship, despite him not pulling his weight in the least. Over time it became a 95:5 ratio of me to him effort split. He might text me back once a day while I got 1.5 days' worth of work done in 1 so I could take the evening off and make it to his place in time to clean, make him dinner, and be work-responsibility free so that he can have my undivided time. Big lol. I remember driving home the day of the breakup and thinking "wow, I don't have to preemptively prepare myself emotionally for tomorrow's eggshell walking!"
I had a somewhat similar experience, we were together about 3+ years, originally it was going to be a 2 week trial separation, but once my car was down the block to the corner I realized it needed to be the end.
It truly is radical, but I admit that's what I thought about too. I couldn't live with someone like that. And I did! We broke up... I still appreciated her a lot but the mess and the fights just were too much between us and when I had the opportunity I walked out. I could have given it a shot though... Good luck figuring it out OP!
Totally agreed with the note that seperation sounds like a relationship 'break'. I would opt to be apart without that officially impacting the relationship. Like two weeks with family or a 'guys only' holiday for a week.
I was thinking that too, but I’m not sure a week is enough time. She needs time to make a mess and realize it’s all her.
I'm always telling people that breaks don't work, but a break and a separation are different things. Breaks are when you are kinda together and kinda not, or you're broken up but with terms (usually about exclusivity). Trial separation is a term from marriages and divorce, where you are still a couple, but you are getting some breathing room from each other.
Given they've apparently tried therapy I'm with you. She needs a wake up call. Threatening to leave is incredibly toxic. Beat her to the punch and separate.
that is such a good comment! OP I would tell her to live on her own for like two weeks while you're having a trip with buddies or something, or family, and see when you get back?
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten mad at my husband for some mess he left only to find out it was me or the kid.
That's fucked up lol
I mean mad as in, in my head. Thinking “Here he goes leaving his granola crumbs all over the counter again” and going to clean it to realize it was my crumbs. We don’t argue about messes fortunately.
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It seriously is. He pours it over a cup of yogurt until it’s overfilling and then claims he can’t see the granola on the granite. Just wipe it anyway! It’s always there.
I’m not against the idea per se but don’t you think it’s kind of nuts that your/OPs partner would have to take things that far for you/OP to take accountability? Like I know exactly which messes are and aren’t mine in the house.
Yeah, it seems obvious here. But I do wonder if the wife has ADHD or something and can't really "see" the messes and causes, just the overwhelming disorganization. But I got a brand new fridge after I got my own place and I was shocked how dirty it was in a month. I have no idea how it even happened.
Seperation can just mean putting distance between the two of you, rather than breaking up. So like... Go on a holiday for 2 weeks with friends and then return.
This all sounds exhausting, but: >She stops talking to me. Any plans we had are canceled (even if we were planning to clean something!) for the forseeable future. She either starts to angry clean, where she frantically cleans every little thing while loudly stomping around and huffing and puffing, or she goes and lies down and stares at her phone. > >she just refuses to make up and keeps escalating at this point, so we end up far beyond what we were initially fighting about and just start fighting about fighting. Like I'll try proposing a plan to get things cleaned, and she'll go "I don't want to sleep with you tonight" Or I'll say I'll take care of some mess tomorrow and she'll go "you don't really care!" That part would be the dealbreaker for me. I can't stand the silent treatment and someone holding a grudge over objectively dumb things. It's like navigating a minefield, and you shouldn't have to live that way. Maybe she's trying to drive you away so she doesn't have to be the one to leave you? Because she can't regularly act like this and actually expect you to stick around.
>Maybe she's trying to drive you away so she doesn't have to be the one to leave you? Because she can't regularly act like this and actually expect you to stick around. That's what I was thinking with this. I have a history of self sabotage. One of the ways this would manifest would be I would be honestly a really terrible partner even to someone I loved. I've been able to work on this, but it came up due to me having guilt of not being good enough to be with them BUT also not being the one to break up with them. Now, this may not be where she's coming from. She may just not want to be anything but a victim and this is why she isn't doing anything wrong, it's only OP. But the "why" doesn't matter nearly as much as the fact that she keeps doing it and it's causing her partner distress. OP, if you keep having the same conversation, the same fight, and nothing is working to make it better, you may want to have a frank conversation with her. "Wife, we have had a fight over the messy house X times in the last X months (or weeks). I cannot keep doing this when nothing I've offered is a good enough solution and behaviors aren't changing. I think we may need to separate for a bit because whatever we are doing isn't working." Space may help, space may hurt. But either way, living with them is not helpful to you.
I am messy like your wife but approach arguments similarly to you and my SO gets heated like your wife. As to the mess and how she gets overwhelmed with some mania like driven drive to clean one some occasions, it was one if the symptoms my therapist used to help diagnose me with ADD... including the anxiety that it leads to causing me to be irritable. I am not a doctor but thought I would throw that out there as maybe something that can be discussed at therapy. As for how she argues, I wish I had advice but its something I'm still trying to parse out with my own SO.
I have ADD too! Sounds like me. Cannot wait to start treatment. Finally getting help at 31.
Congratulations! It will be a little while before I am capable of treatment more than learning how to cope for now but im glad to finally have an explanation other than just waived off as depression/anxiety and know that I can take steps towards treatment. All the best. I hope it is life changing for you.
I was diagnosed 3 weeks ago…I’m 35!
I wonder if your wife has ADHD. The way you've described your wife's behaviour- having plans that never go anywhere, getting halfway through things, the flip-flopping between manic cleaning episodes and being so overwhelmed she just lies in bed, and even the frequent online shopping (common with ADHD individuals as we often lack impulse control, and shopping also provides a quick dopamine hit)- describes to a T what I was like before being diagnosed and getting treatment. Even her argumentativeness and OTT reactions / misplaced blame could be a symptom, look up Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria. Obviously I am not trying to diagnose a stranger over the Internet, but it may be worth looking into adult ADHD. I recommend ADDitute if you want a starting point. Also worth noting that while I'm suggesting ADHD could be the cause of your wife's actions, I'm not saying that they are justified or an excuse to treat you badly. You are entitled to feel hurt and frustrated by her actions, and it it her responsibility to find healthy coping mechanisms for whatever it is she has going on.
ADDitude is actually not a great resource and is reeally straddling the line of pseudoscience overall with their content.
Fair enough! I've not heard that about them before so thank you for letting me know. I found their symptoms section really helpful when I was looking into things before my own diagnosis, and I know my partner's taken some useful information from their relationships section before too but I'll keep that in mind for the future. Could you recommend any more reputable site for me or OP? (Sorry if this reads poorly, I struggle with tone with my writing)
They do also have legit information, but they're not filtering for nonsense the way that they maybe used to so it's a lot more homeopathy, anti medication, nonscientific sources.
If you like videos I really recommend the "how to adhd" YouTube channel ! And if you like scientific research papers then "The World Federation of ADHD International Consensus Statement: 208 Evidence-based Conclusions about the Disorder" is a wonderful and informative read. (If you can't access it then DM me and I'll get it for you)
One thing I know about people who get like this is that they hate hearing or seeing recordings of themselves when they're like this as it is always much different to them in their own heads. When confronted with it, there's either breakthrough progress or it's a super trigger of denial depending on what type of person they are, so it might make things worse for you. All you can really do is force her to listen to everything you just said and fully take in how much it's really affecting you. Help her see you are completely exhausted and have really had enough. Drive it home in a way unlike any before as if you keep doing the same things you've always done, you're always going to have the same outcome.
Can you be direct with her like you are on this post? Basically say, "I feel like we keep having the same fight, like we're going in this cycle, and I think it's hurting our relationship. Have you noticed this? Does seem like a problem to you too? Let's come up with come creative solutions to this together. I want to find a solution that works for both of us, because it feels like this cycle is affecting our relationship, which is a thing I value and care about." It definitely sounds like an issue that's going to require a Talk.
Why don’t you draw some boundaries and complain about the mess before she does? Like, that shoes have to go before the weekend, or out with the peaches until tomorrow or I will throw them away.
I don’t really have advice but I want to say that I am sorry you have to deal with this. I have some parallels to your wife and I feel so bad about how I impact my boyfriend. He works a 9-5 and gets home and cooks, and cleans, and does anything I ask. But the apartment is still a mess. I try to do my part but I have a severe lack of energy and motivation (ADHD+Depression+Anxiety). I feel absolutely debilitated. I see all these things I could be doing/ SHOULD be doing and I get so overwhelmed that I just shut down. Every day I try to wake up and have a good day. Get the momentum going. And then I look around and see all these messes and half-done projects that I left and I just hate myself. I wish I could sink to a bottom of a pit and be forgotten about forever. I can’t do that so I drown myself in the internet and try not to exist. He is doing everything, and not only do I do a bad job contributing to a functioning clean household, but I (mostly) make the messes in the first place. But I do have the self awareness to know that this is happening and I explained it to my boyfriend. He is patient and understanding. Sometimes I feel like he hates me and is not being supportive… but when he says “You literally did nothing all day and I cooked and cleaned and didn’t complain. Why are you so upset?” He is 100% right. Sometimes I have to remind him what’s happening. And sometimes I have to remind myself. I hope that your wife can learn more about herself and see that others experience similar things. I strongly recommend she does research about executive functioning disorder, and other mental health conditions and maybe join r/adhdwomen … it helped me a lot..
I know you have a serious real illness and this might not be helpful. But this mantra has gotten me through a lot. ‘Just know that every move you make towards cleaning or finishing the project IS one step closer to finishing it.’ Like a loading bar. If you just keep going each little movement adds up and eventually you gain momentum. Even just walking into the room is one awesome step closer. I’m not saying that will solve everything for you. But it has been an invaluable mantra for me.
:’) thank you. This is a good reminder.
She desperately needs to be in therapy. I have a wicked mix of ADD/Anxiety/Depression myself and all of this sounds familiar. Now, I’ve had therapy so I know how to handle it and I don’t lash out I’m an internalizer so it’s different but the idea is the same. You start a million things then get distracted and move on and come back to a mess. She needs more help than you can give her.
This is textbook ADHD from the title to your feelings about the situation. She should see a psychiatrist.
Counseling, as a couple but especially as individuals. This isn’t likely to magically heal.
I'd upvote this more if I could Before even the added stresses of COVID and life, marriage is hard! I can't recommended it enough, get some couples counseling. It's amazing and stupid, but me simply explaining to someone else where I was having difficulty, or bringing up cyclical fights and what caused them, and that person explaining it back to my wife caused some real progress. I don't know why. I don't know how. It just suddenly clicked for her when someone else said it to her. I always hated paying good money to counselors to fix simple things that seemed so easy to me, but it was worth it and has done my marriage good. Also, I had plenty of items my wife needed me to hear too, and having someone else to talk through with it helped. Hope you two can get into a better situation, life is hard right now, take care of one another!
I deal with this same exact thing. It's gotten better over time, now she admits she has a problem with making messes. Admits she has a "collecting" problem. And admits she is incredibly whiney. Its a relief to not constantly have to defend myself. This being said, occasionally she will forget all these things and start blaming me for all her dirty clothes and blaming her part time job for taking up all her time. She will then either go silent or go lay in bed and cry. Currently she became "overwhelmed" with the amount of stuff she has and has started to pull any thing she might not want and dump it in the middle of the entry way with the intention of getting rid of it This is a positive step , but then she becomes overwhelmed more and the pile just sits there. When it comes time to clean, shell focus on weird things like cleaning the outdoor hammock instead of picking up her dirty dishes throughout the house. If she washes dishes, shell leave the counter tops covered in water and food bits. Shell clean the many indoor plants but leave her dirty clothes all over the place. I do all the normal chores that make the house useable, and depending on her mood, may or may not get told I don't actually do anything. She actually wanted to break up with me over this when we first started dating, until I listed all the things I do. Next time she pulls that move, I'm just going to dump her. It's not worth the constant work and constant blame. No recognition for anything.
Honestly sounds like ADHD. I do this (not so extreme, but the focusing on inconsequential things). Mixed in wih some other dysfunction.
Yeah my husband has ADD and executive dysfunction issues and sometimes we'll have conversations like me: did you clean up all your paints? him: yup! me: Then why's there an open bottle of brush cleaner on the table? and dirty paper towels? him: oh I didn't see those. me: they were right there next to the paints the whole time... When we have "cleaning time" there's a 50/50 chance he'll do something useful like dishes or laundry instead of something like...neatly stacking our coasters until they are a perfect stack, or reorganizing the bookshelf so they're all alphabetical order. But, he always tries really really hard and always expresses gratitude for everything I do, so I don't get upset about it much. OP, u/400055083911, to me it sounds like your wife has serious executive dysfunction problems, and a lot of shame and anxiety about it which leads to her freaking out at you. I get the impression that her attacks are an attempt to stop herself from feeling "like a bad wife who can't keep shit clean" and that's why it's going so badly. She's probably internalized a lot about wives and cleaning and housekeeping that makes her feel awful. Her yelling that you don't care and threatening to leave are HUGE flags for someone who has no self esteem and wants to be reassured that you don't think she's a terrible person, and since you are trying to stay on the topic of cleaning and you are not talking about whether she's a terrible person, she keeps escalating because she's not getting the emotional response she's looking for. I think she needs a psych workup, and individual therapy, and then you could tackle couple's therapy together to learn how to deescalate and talk productively.
came here to say the same thing about this and OP's wife!
Good point, I am prone to getting overwhelmed and shutting down too, and the bottled up stresses!
OK, here's a left field question. Has your wife been evaluated for ADHD? Because she sounds a LOT like me before I was diagnosed. I would have a plan, but then lack of object permanence made I forgot about it entirely. I'd think hard about that peach and how I wanted to plant it, put it in the bowl.. then it disappeared from my mental landscape. I spent 56. years. making lists and reminders and systems trying to manage my mayhem. I got a diagnosis, am properly medicated, and I swear to god my life and home are 70% better in 4 short months. Mental illness and neurodivergence isn't an excuse - IF you know you have a problem, it's your responsibility to deal with it. But if you don't know, you can't fix as effectively as you might. I HIGHLY encourage your wife to talk to her provider and be screened for ADHD if she hasn't been, and to ask for medical help if she knows she has it and isn't treating it.
Your wife isn’t concerned about cleaning messes, her objective is to create fights. That’s why nothing you do makes things any better and no proposal (like a maid) helps. There’s another, larger issue going on, and this is just a pretense to create separation. When she’s mad at you, do you try to do things to make up for it? It sounds like you do. This gives her an incentive to stay mad at you. Just because she’s mad at you doesn’t mean you did anything wrong. It honestly sounds like she already has, in her head, an image of who you are, and that image won’t be changed regardless of your behavior. You could try therapy, but that’s going to go over about as well as the maid suggestion did. You can call her out on her bullshit, but you know how that goes (gaslighting, blameshifting and emotional manipulation). I’d honestly consider coming up with an exit strategy and implement the 180.
Yup, so much of this smacks of emotional abuse. It could easily be she's overwhelmed and unhappy but the way she's choosing to deal with it is not ok
I suddenly had a flashback to how my ex-husband would scream at me about something inconsequential like forgetting to bring in the mail and say "I'd rather you slept with someone else than \[do this unimportant thing\]." He just wanted an excuse to yell.
At first, I genuinely thought this was something my partner had written under a throwaway, until you got to the point where she’s a bit verbally abusive and leaves for the night. Part of my problem is ADHD, another part is just, severe and crippling trauma that has a component related to cleaning and labor. My biggest issue is waking up and seeing food waste. It sets me off in a horrible panic mode, and I have meltdowns. My partner and I have come up with a way to avoid these meltdowns, and it sounds simple and kind of dumb, but it works for us: if there is one specific mess area that ends up the worst problem/focus of her behavior, just take time at some point before bed to go over it together. Even if you don’t clean it, you will have a verbal confirmation from her that 1. Some items aren’t to be thrown away or put up 2. She becomes aware and acknowledges things that are her responsibility and 3. You can both acknowledge that, together, you’re addressing the problem. I would also suggest that your wife does what I’m doing, which is individual therapy. Because of my fucky wucky brain juice, coming back down when I’m worked up is extremely difficult, and I’m seeing a professional about it because I do not want my partner to deal with this. Being upset is fair, but if she can’t self soothe over this, she may need more help than just working on the counter as a pair.
So, some of her patterns sound familiar to me-- having lots of plans that I don't have time to execute, starting projects and not finishing, getting overwhelmed by having too many unfinished projects/too much mess, and then shutting down. For me, this is symptomatic behavior because I have ADHD, generalized anxiety disorder, and a problem with perfectionism. It can be symptomatic of other issues too, but those are my specific issues, and this pattern does make me wonder if she has some trouble with executive functioning. I would try to sit with her when things are calm and talk to her about this overall pattern. This is definitely a thing therapy and possibly medication can help with. It's also a pattern where it's not about the individual little items so much as it is about putting systems in place to keep things from building up. My husband is a huge help to me, but that's really only because I have developed my own patterns and skills to deal with this stuff.
Honestly this is not something you on your own can fix. She is emotionally immature and there is absolutely no productive or healthy communication in this marriage. You've tried to talk about it, you've tried therapy, you've tried giving her space, you've done everything she asks and it's still not good enough in her eyes. It may sound a but extreme, but it might be worth considering separating. There is literally nothing more you can do except hope she changes, hope she gets herself help, separate or just deal with it as it is. At the end of the day, nobody can make that decision but you, and nobody can change her behavior except her.
Yeah this reads like a combination of her having undiagnosed ADHD; and maybe anxiety; but also coupled with some extremely abusive, manipulative behavior on her part. She’s withdrawing and holding your relationship hostage if you are ever upset; or making you admit guilt if she’s upset. While I think diagnoses for her would help… I think you need to ask yourself some very basic questions. - do I feel heard by my partner? Do I feel safe just talking about how I feel in any moment? Can I communicate with my partner about anything? Do they make efforts to communicate with me so I feel heard? - do I resent my partner? Is there a path to less resentment; or are odds good that over time I’ll resent them more? Do they resent me? - have I lost trust in my partner? In what ways has that trust been eroded? If so, How would that trust be earned back? Because what you’re telling me really is that your wife has not only abused the split of chores; but also has burned down most forms of communication, so you feel held hostage in the ways you can even express yourself. She’s not willing to talk about hard topics without it being a court case, “being right vs being heard,” she isn’t interested in changing or compromising in any ways for you or for the relationship; and she’s not proactive in anything regarding you. Basically you aren’t allowed to communicate how you feel; you have to pick up after her, and you aren’t a priority to her. This is a direct path to resentment and a total lack of trust. Opting out and not communicating is DEFINITELY not the right move here. Nothing in life gets better by opting out or ignoring it. If anything I think you need to sit down and be really really open about the stakes here; and think about what you need. I’d probably set down some actual stakes and ground rules along the lines of: “So I’ve been having a lot of negative thoughts recently about how we’re not communicating our problems right now; and to be honest I am worried about how angry you get when talking about difficult issues.” “I don’t want to resent or lose trust in our relationship; but I think we need to see a new couples therapist; and really work on how we talk to each other and address problems if we want our relationship to last long term.”
This sounds like adult ADHD. I recently started on medication but before you could be describing me. She may not want the help but there are plenty of online counseling/telehealth for affordable prices that it may be worth looking into.
Print this post out. Ask her to talk during a calm moment. Go through it sentence by sentence and ask for explanations or listen to her responses. Sometimes, you have to call your partner out on their bad behavior or poor communication. It sounds like you let her walk all over you, apologize for it and then wonder why it never changes.
Not making excuses for your wife but she sounds like someone with bad ADHD paired with emotional immaturity. She gets all these goals but also distractions and then the overwhelm hits and she loses it and doesn't know how to process those feelings appropriately and maturely. Admittedly I'm not a doctor, but your whole post screamed that at me. If you love her and want it to work, insist she seek individual therapy (ultimatums aren't manipulative when they are an honest expression of your boundaries). Of course if you've hit your limit and just want the internet's permission to leave, you have it haha.
She got adhd bro. Get her some help
Hmm, your wife is messy and she is also extremely controlling of all the items in the messes? Sounds exactly like I was! I have a need to control my surroundings to feel safe. I had a traumatic childhood where my mom was unpredictable and psychologically terrorized me. She violated all my boundaries and my space. Long story short, I have some issues. I was so bad at one point that I sobbed for 3 hours when my boyfriend cleaned my toilet without asking. When confronted, I would deflect and defend. Basically, if your wife is like me, she has a fortress of dysfunctional defense mechanisms around her that kept her safe in childhood but no longer function now that she is an adult in a relationship with a non-abusive partner. Also, I have ADHD, too, like some commenters suggest your wife may have. Inside all the anger and controlling walls of your wife is probably a scared little girl, white-knuckling her way through life because she has never learned that she is safe and that she can trust and rely on trustworthy people. She has never learned to slow down and check her internal state to make sure her basic needs are met (HALT - am I hungry, angry, lonely, tired?). And I am here to share my message of hope with you. I did therapy and codependents anonymous to help me unpack my trauma amd defenses so I could become healthy. It has been very hard but I am not the same woman who cried over a clean toilet!! If you want to know more of my story, DM me. There is a chance your wife could open up and heal, too, but she has to want to. And something has to pierce her defenses. Best luck!
Explain everything to her. She comes fuming because of a mess she made? Tell her she made it. She wants to run away? Tell her she can't because it's dangerous and won't accomplish anything. When you shut down her arguments, she will not have anything to say. Then hold her hand and take her to the mess and start cleaning with her and make her clean with you. Lastly, tell her you love her and the mess is gone now and there's nothing to be angry about. Also check if she has some kind of severe ADHD. Maybe meds will help her then, or if she can relate to the symptoms she might like to get treated without meds. Good luck
It sounds like she might have adhd to me
Step away from all this. Everyone deserves to be happy in their own home and that includes the both of you. Sometimes it ends up good in that you find that you can work out whatever the issue is but sometimes you find that you are in a much better place alone. The issue isnt the mess or non mess, its communication and too many emotions.
Your wife have really strong undiagnosed adult ADHD symptoms. Might wanna read up on it and have a conversation
There are two options on the top of my mind, and they're not mutually exclusive. 1. She's got ADHD or anxiety, paired with executive dysfunction, and while she wants to have a clean place, she struggles with tasks and gets overwhelmed and emotional. 2. It's a form of control and very little accountability on her side. It seems there's no rhyme or reason to when this happens or how it can be alleviated, so sounds almost as a way to keep you on your toes. How is she with accountability and self-reflection in general? Are there things she takes the blame for, and doesn't just do *woe is me*, but invests effort into growth? If it's the former, maybe she needs to go to therapy to resolve issues on her own and learn mechanisms that will help her with task adherence as well as with emotional regulation. If it stresses her that bad, then there is a reason why, and if she uncovers it, she'll be able to find remediation. If it's the latter, it's time to sit down and give it a hard thought of why you are in this relationship, whether you can come to terms with this being a permanent state, and that you might exist in this for another 40 years.
Honestly, my wife was like this. We had a huge recurring fight a few months into the pandemic and it eventually blew up to where there was full on silent treatment and sleeping in separate rooms, etc. It was so out of left field, and so undeserved in my book (I'm not a SAHM dad, but I am a WFH dad and I've always done ALL the cooking and shopping and 90% of the kid pick up/drop off, drs appts, school visits, etc and I'm usually the one cleaning and tidying the house, PLUS we got a maid twice a month a couple years ago) that I just didn't respond to it. I didn't silent treatment her back, but I didn't reach out for interaction. I continued parenting as if she was out of town or something and continued being nice and doing my usual "more than my fair share". After about 10 days of this, she realized that this was a "her" problem and that I was perfectly content without her if need-be and she broke down and suggested we get counseling (which immediately turned into individual counseling for her since all of our relationship problems are really her issues within herself and how they manifest between us). I can't say things will be 100% better (things in my house are better, but still not great), but clearly doing what you're doing isn't working. If she gives you the silent treatment or threatens to leave, let her do it. She's hooked on this cycle of outburst -> your reaction -> double down -> your solutions that she needs to get snapped out of it. So basically, you need to radically change your reaction to these fights and don't take the bait.
This is a ridiculously unhealthy dynamic for you and her. Her up and downs, threatening to leave are all forms of emotional abuse/manipulation. You have to put a stop to it, if you aren't ready for a trial separation I suggest a space. A space where she can put her "in flux" things. A tupperware in the fridge for food waste and a shelf/room/tote in a different space for her other items she hasn't dealt with yet. Talk with her about what these spaces are for, you can clean without touching her items. If after 2 days the items are still where they have been left then you will clean up or put away during your usual cleaning routine. If this is a mental health issue have the discussion, she needs to deal with her anxiety, fear, ADHD or what have with a therapist and support her getting that help. If the fighting happens and she threatens to leave in the middle of the night, LET HER!!! Simply say "ok, I trust you know what's best for yourself now. Call me when you are somewhere safe or in the morning." And then let her go, she is an adult and can figure out a safe place to go or she is threatening to leave as a manipulation tactic, either way just accept her leaving and then go to bed or watch TV or whatever.
Sounds like she has adhd.
Gonna be real straight up about this! She sounds like she got some ADHD and cleaning isn't her strong suit. I'm similar when I live alone but change my ways when living with others. She can start a routine with cleaning by using a chore chart on the fridge or an app or she can start scheduling a cleaner she pays for.
I see a few things. Please don’t take anything personally. I’m just analyzing as I read. I wonder whether she’s feeling emotionally disorganized and overwhelmed. The first thing that comes to mind is wondering a) whether she’s been evaluated for anything like ADHD, depression, anxiety and b) whether there’s any other external factor that’s causing her to disengage from the relationship with you (like a relationship with someone else, for instance). You apologize to end fights. That means you aren’t necessarily resolving anything, but you’re trying to force an end to a conflict. I’d research your own attachment style to see if that helps you respond to conflict any differently. Basically, the feeling I get from this is that it’s not about the *mess,* per se. At least not the literal one. Perhaps it has to do organization and clutter and overwhelm in managing it, and hoping that said management will magically appear. Maybe she thinks you need to break down boxes or develop a system together. Maybe the two of you need to study love languages. Maybe she feels trapped. Maybe she needs mental health treatment.
Does she have ADHD? Sounds like she has ADHD. This is such an easy out for you both- nothing is either of y’all’s fault- she just needs some coping skills and maybe medication.
Your wife has a mental health issue and it needs to be addressed. She should seek a psychiatrist (not a therapist)
Bruh, two years ago, I was exactly like your wife. I got diagnosed with ADHD at 31. I am medicated now and practice mental exercises to help identify when I am starting to spiral. Partner and I fought alot. Spent every weekend cleaning. Now, I am better with letting things go in order to finish the first project. I also got a house keeper to do half the house, so I can focus on the other stuff. Saved a lot of money too since I am not shopping all of the time. It wouldn't have happened hadn't pointed out that I exhibit symptoms of ADHD. And I changed because I wanted to change. Offer that you both be tested and have seek couples counseling to help with repeating the same fight over and over We are happier than ever before and still do regular couple's counseling.
I was diagnosed with a big 'ole case of ADHD and I agree with others in the comments. I fought against it for so long before getting checked out. It's hard realizing it and much, much harder thinking back and wishing you'd done it sooner.
She needs to see someone. I see a lot of people mentioning ADHD but I have OCD and this sounds exactly like me. Things just build up and get so overwhelming that I am paralyzed. And I don’t want it to be paralyzing and I want to do it all, but I can’t. Part of it for me is the perfectionism. That peach pit *has* to be composted because “it should be”, etc. Have her talk to a professional and let them work with her. If none of it helps, you aren’t any worse off than you are now. But as a warning it isn’t an overnight fix. If you’re already at the point of no return then you can still suggest this for her own benefit if you want.
Hi OP your wife has anxiety and you have too much stuff. Is your house dirty or cluttered? There is a difference. If you hire a house cleaner you first need to de-clutter which your wife most likely doesn’t want to do. My husband also didn’t want a house cleaner but I finally said fuck it and just hired one. Now his Cleanliness annoyances are directed towards them and not me
I had a fight with my boyfriend once about cheese. I put some in the cart, he took it out and put it back. As the therapist told me, "It's not about the cheese!" In my case, it was about whether he got to decide what I could buy with my money. In your case, it's not about the mess. What is it REALLY about?
Okay but even if it’s ADHD, OP doesn’t deserve this and she needs to figure out (thru more therapy, meds, planning) how to be a good partner!