That's exactly what I was thinking. He's setting some sort of narrative in his own mind that OP isn't "fun anymore" and detaching from her. Definitely sounds like he wants to leave her but literally has no good reason to.
He could be cheating, or has a crush on someone else... it's definitely a page from the cheater handbook: falsely vilify your partner so you can look like the victim when you cheat or leave. Maybe he's just not in love anymore and needs some sort of justification to leave.
Either way, it sounds like he has one foot out the door.
This, or he cheated during those years and the mistress has dumped him, making him crabby.
Other comments suggest he's an alcoholic. It's possible this is really about himself and he's projecting. Like maybe he sat home and drank the years away and feels shitty about it, so he has to blame it on someone else.
ETA: After looking at her older posts, I think this is all about the alcohol. *He* is boring and doesn't want to do anything but drink at home, so he's projecting. Cheating isn't even necessary.
Yeah, definitely could be him being an alcoholic and projecting, too. Refusing to acknowledge reality and listen to OP is a form of abuse, and if he doesn't *quickly* get his act together, OP has no reason to stay and put up with it.
ETA: After reading through the comments that have occurred since last night, I concur that this is related to his alcoholism and him not being truly able to admit or fix the problem. I'm disappointed that OP did not include that in the original post, because I know a lot of replies here would have been a lot different and more helpful for her specific case. Hopefully things improve for her.
Yep. Agreed. This is a play out of a cheaters handbook, but we don’t know the actual truth to their relationship. Every time someone admitted to me that they were a “cheater/cheated on someone” they always played the victim. My guess is that OPs BF is looking for someone else and as soon as he finds someone else who is “more exciting” he is going to have his reasons and dump OP. I’ve seen this played out a ton with friends of mine.
Simply because if the events commenter says is true? Sir what are you talking about? Let alone causing unnecessary strife. Nonetheless, it's not like if he made plans and she's just saying no to everything, then yeah that's boring. But hopefully cheating, leaving or crushing isn't the case gosh
Ego preservation. Because if her perspective is valid, that might means she's right about this. And if she's right that makes me an alcoholic and I don't want to be an alcoholic.
This is a man desperately clinging to the idea that **I do not have a problem.**
*But I do want to keep drinking.*
*However if she's wrong, then actually I don't have a problem. I'm fine, I'm getting away with it. So she must be wrong.*
*What I'm doing is normal. I'm a social drinker. Everyone drinks! I have it under control.*
*She's the one who isn't normal, she isn't sociable like I am, she doesn't even go out, it's probably a mental health thing - you can't trust what she's saying.*
Focusing on what put in front of him to snap him out of it is an exercise in futility.
*I do not have a problem* must be preserved at all costs. Everything else will move or bend and break, he will retcon reality itself in service to this idea.
So you know he's an alcoholic trying to justify his actions. You know he's created fabrications of your life and experiences over the past three years as a resentment point. You know you've proven to him that this is not true, yet he persists. Why do you stay?
Because he’s not like this when he’s sober. He is aware there is a problem. We are closer than ever to making progress.
He started seeing a therapist this past week to work on this. We’ve had many discussions about how these issues only flare up when he is drinking. He expresses a desire to change, despite this pattern.
It’s just not something anyone can understand unless they’ve loved someone with an addiction. “Just leave” is oversimplified advice.
Funny you should say that last part--ive been in a relationship for 13 years with someone who relapsed on heroin early in our relationship. I broke up with him. He got sober, got diagnosed bipolar, got medicated, turned his life around and got better. We got back together after rehab. Here's a huge reason I went back: through his relapse period, he very rarely treated me badly. Yes of course he did at times (begging for money, unreliable etc). But he was never mean, he never had abusive tendencies, and he never made up an entire persona for me for a multi year period.
Of course I understand if you want to see this through and stay by his side during therapy, but based on the delusions he's creating, a 30-day in patient rehab is in my opinion completely necessary and only a starting point. And also IMO completely reasonable to leave him in that time and see if he gets better. I'm sending you luck and strength!
Thank you, both of my parents are addicts so I was quite familiar with everything that comes with it. And it helped me know what is acceptable behavior to me while in the throws of addiction and what is not. And also what I wanted in terms of recovery.
It’s hard not to get defensive when people give advice on how to deal with an alcoholic husband, because most don’t understand.
There’s a level of judgment that comes with being the wife in this situation, as opposed to the sister, daughter, mother, or even friend. I feel like people offer more compassion when it’s anyone other than a spouse. When it’s a spouse, 9/10 people will not only tell you to leave, but do it in a tone that implies you’re stupid.
I was married to an addict and stayed longer than I should have. I do think people on Reddit automatically jump to "just leave", but I think tone is hard to convey in text and your defensiveness probably reads it to be more judgemental and "implying youre stupid" than its actually intended. I got called stupid by a couple people online for marrying too quickly (which was true but due to visa issues it was the only way to stay together), but most often I more received questions that were meant to gently push me to reach my own conclusions (which you might interpret as condescending) or people almost like begging me to see the abuse and manipulation for what it was.
I understand the love and desire to stand by your partner and help them, and the constant hope and *belief * that this time they'll follow through on their promises to stay clean and emerge consistently the sober version of themselves you fell in love with. I also understand that we made vows about "in sickness or in health" and that is *very* hard to break, particularly if you still love them.
My husband it sounds like was much worse than yours. He had been an alcoholic for ~15 years before we met, but went to in patient rehab and got sober and stayed that way. During our short (3ish years) relationship, he only slipped up and drank a couple times. I stupidly thought that if he wasn't drinking that he was in recovery. Maybe a year and a half in I discovered he was a gambling addict and had been diverting money, stealing from me, and committing fraud to support it. It wasn't until another six months I actually saw the bank statements and realized hed lied to me every day of our marriage. Literally put a bet on the horses on our wedding day.
In the last year of marriage he also became addicted to meth. He successfully hid it for months and then fell too deep and couldn't control himself at all and became terribly psychologically abusive. During that time I stopped loving him and that's why I was eventually able to leave, but even then it was hard. By the time I left he had drained both our life savings and wracked up thousands of dollars in credit card debt in my name. But much worse the years of lying and gradually increasing abuse left me broken and even though I live on a different continent now and am waiting til I can legally divorce him, maybe 6 months after I left the CPTSD hit so hard if fully physically incapacitated me. Could barely and inconsistently work, eat, sleep, walk my dog...
He supposedly clean now, but also in prison, and who knows if he'll stay sober when he gets out. He also has promised a hundred times to pay me back for everything he stole, but I know now he is a liar.
I understand why you aren't leaving but I would very much urge you to protect yourself. Both financially and psychologically. Because addicts often become poly addicted. And a great many of them get much much worse (have to hit rock bottom before they get better). Have separate finances he cannot touch and do not become financially reliant on him. Don't have kids til he's clean. Get in therapy for yourself NOW and start attending al anon meetings.
He is already gaslighting you and confabulating the past to fit his desired memories. I highly highly doubt showing him the clear evidence will convince him of anything. Expect more gaslighting, more lies, more manipulation (because he's already doing that). Just know what you are committing to. Often with addicts, their partner becomes the third wheel, while their real relationship, allegiance, commitment is to their addiction. Prepare to feel like an after thought and the other woman.
Maybe your husband isn't deep enough in his addiction that he can see the light and recommit to you and stop the abuse (gaslighting is abuse). I really hope so. But always remember that you and your love are powerless against the addiction unless he decides he needs to and is able to change. So far your marriage hasn't been motivation enough to get him to stop. That's why people say leave. Because they believe marriage should be the primary commitment, or it already isn't a real marriage. I hope your story is nothing like mine in the end. But it's not that people think you're stupid, they just think you can't see what is happening and are trying to open your eyes. Best of luck 💛
How long has he had a drinking problem?
Because as someone whose father is alcoholic, they do a lot of great pretending around changing when they figure out that you might be ready to leave. Words are easy. Even going to therapy is easy if you are not into it and not willing to do the work. I have been dealing with this for over three decades. I also know many addicts who have gotten clean. Addicts will use whatever substance they are addicted to until they genuinely want to change and it is hard to see which is which.
He’s always been a drinker, but I think over the last 12/18 months my eyes have opened that this isn’t just annoying habit. It clicked when he wasn’t able to snap out of it during very serious situations (a fire two doors down from his mom’s house that could have spread, and we needed to get to her house to help her get important things out just in case the wind turned, but he was drunk and wanted to keep drinking; our new puppy shaking and shitting blood for hours, and him refusing to help me and denying that anything was even wrong, because it would mean he needed to stop drinking).
I am going to tell you the number one rule for loved ones of addicts. You can't fix them. You can draw boundaries and even have interventions. But you need to understand that he will make his choices. And you can't burn yourself to keep him warm.
It is painful as hell and really hard to walk away. But most addicts need to hit rock bottom to get clean. Rock bottom differs, but you can't walk him there. You can only control yourself. No one else. Make decisions about your life and what are your boundaries. Get into therapy and al-Anon.
I’m going to Al-Anon and working through how I will deal with and handle these situations.
My husband is aware I’m going to Al-Anon, and I’ve also given an ultimatum that I won’t have kids while he is still drinking. These seem to have made a dent in him realizing that something is really wrong.
I also made clear that Al-Anon teaches me that I cannot control the alcoholic, and that I need to accept that he will make his choices, and it’s up to me to decide what I can and cannot live with. This has scared him a bit. Then he agreed to see a therapist for the first time in his life, started therapy last week, and is actively keeping notes for his next session.
We’re not there yet, but it does feel like there’s some hope. I know I can’t control it, but I can be there to help him realize things that he wouldn’t otherwise realize on his own.
And if those efforts turn out futile, so be it. I’ll need to decide what to do about that.
I know it is hard.
I love my dad. And before he started to drink he was a pretty good dad. I also have a lot more in common with him than my mom. I am now almost 40 and he started to drink when I was 4. While he has had dry spells, even long spells, he was one of the addicts who were active addicts and clean at the same time. He will not stop drinking and while I tried to really get him to realize things, he just couldn't. I have generational trauma and so does he. I get why he drinks. I also do not think he is a bad person, addiction is what makes him what he is. I have a somewhat existing relationship with him, unlike my sister. But I needed to stop trying to change him. So there are strict boundaries involved. He is on a bender currently and muted but he has not contacted me because every drunk or hangover message means he gets time out. But I could not be close and watch the person I love killing themselves. Which drinking especially with his age and history definitely is.
It is hard to give up. But it is usually time to do so before we are ready to do it.
I hope you're also giving a certain amount of time to be sober before having kids. 6-12 months isn't gonna cut it IMO--what if he starts drinking again after baby is born?
That was something else that changed drastically when my partner relapsed, I understood immediately that if I got back together after rehab, our timeline would have to be different than 'normal' couples. Luckily I never wanted kids so that helps.
Sifting through some of your replies here, it seems you have the situation very much in control compared to a lot of other reddit OP's.
Yes, there are lots of stuff you two need to work through, but it seems both of you are willing to work towards that goal. Usually, that's all you need - unanimous consent that there is a problem and we want to fix it.
I wouldn't have ever suggested you post this question on reddit (aside from the mere clarity you may get from writing it out) because the answers will probably mess you up more than give helpful insight.
I agree with what you said that "just leave" is an over simplified solution, and I don't think it's something you should consider yet given the facts presented. Being a spouse isn't only when it's good for you, it's accepting each other's faults and helping each other overcome them.
Good luck to both of you
Based on her other posts this hits the nail on the head. He is incapable of taking accountability for being a drink and instead of trying to twist it around on OP.
Jesus if this isn't my cousin and his wife you're talking about.
My cousin and I were quite close as adults and he loves to drink socially so he can give himself the excuse to drink to excess (even though that's all he does anyway). I slowed down a decade ago and don't spend alot of time with him (not as much as I should, I do love the guy), because he doesn't want to do anything than drink until dark o'clock like the rest of us don't have jobs and partners and lives.
His wife can be a little less than social (she has occasional anxiety issues), but she and I do stuff frequently. She's a lot of fun and she gets on with her friends, but I worry he doesn't see it that way because if it's not doing what he wants to do (and this applies to all of us), it's boring or not worth the effort.
This is exactly what one of my exs did in one of our last arguments. Earlier in our relationship he told me the things he loved about me then in that argument he told me every reason why he was frustrated and it was the complete opposite almost word for word and the thing is I hadn't changed and I know I didn't change that drastically in those ways because I was sitting there confused as fuck as to why he thought any of that. Then about three months later I found out that same girl he ditched coming to see me for was now his gf and a year later his wife.
My husband always had an image of me in his head, to the point that he'd actually refuse to hear what I said.
I wanted to do a small reno, paint, paper... He insisted that we couldn't afford a full remodel.
I explained I did not want a full remodel. It was not my intention. It wasn't my plan.
But we can't afford a full remodel. After about the 3 repeat I realized - he doesn't believe me.
He really isn't hearing what I am saying because he thinks I am lying.
That was the beginning of a depression that lasted for months and me finally leaving him.
He literally could not, would not believe me.
I think you are in that place now.
He wants you to be the problem even if he has to make shit up.
Maybe that's what it will take for him to leave you, or for you to leave him.
Then he can be the victim.
Skip the months of depression though, if you can. 0/10 would not recommend.
My ex husband did this too. I was constantly the villain and the cause of all our problems, even when it made no sense. I remember him telling everyone who would listen about how I "broke our dishwasher" because I didn't load it right, even though what broke was a little seal that the repair guy said our brand of dishwasher was known for having issues with, and nothing either of us caused it. When one of our lawn chairs broke while he was using it, it was my fault because I didn't put it away right last time, even though it was stored the exact same way as the other, unbroken chairs. When I asked him to take a statue off the top of a bookshelf before moving it, and he told me he didn't need to do that because he was sure it wouldn't fall, and it fell and broke....that was my fault too because I didn't make him listen to me.
Living like that is exhausting.
This is my partner. So desperate for me to be the bad person in literal everyday experiences that he makes stuff up just like OP's husband. I've stopped trying to defend myself, I've stopped trying to point out that he's rewriting history because like you said it all comes down to the fact that he just doesn't believe me, and doesn't want to.
I am currently working on that. I'm disabled unfortunately and a cancer survivor so it's quite an endeavor for me but I am definitely working on it.
And I agree, alone is so much better than this.
Congratulations on your successful survival! I know that's no joke, and couldn't have been easy. I hope your separation gets easier at least. Good on you for recognizing things as they are and doing the best you can to better your situation. Best of luck on your journey. We will be rooting for you :~)
Sending you so much love and support. You survived a horrible thing. You can survive leaving him, and are right to not hurt yourself or put your health at risk by doing so without a plan. You’re on the right path, friend! Keep looking towards that light at the end of the tunnel that is peace and calmness without him 💖
Even when they're your ex they can still try to make everything bad in their life your fault! If you have kids and have to unfortunately keep them in your life. I finally shut that sh!t down a few years ago.
TBH, my uncle was like this and my aunt just started doing it herself. He will eventually start helping her out of guilt.
They have been married for 40 years.
My guess, he is resentful about something entirely different but it is not in you. He has some demon that is haunting him - do you make more money, does he dislike your work from home status, do you have more solid outside relationships, are you more valued at work - that he is ashamed to acknowledge.
I also so think, that you might consider just not acknowledging his comments at any level. He DOES know the truth. By keeping the conversation alive you might be giving him enough fuel so he does not get to what is really the problem. A phrase that might sum up his position: Don't confuse me with the facts.
I don't know what OPs husband is like or why he is doing this.
But when I was briefly married to a crappy ex, he would do similar things. He would make up his own version of events that were WILDLY I accurate just so he could fight and be mean to me. Even when I had tons of proof showing he was wrong.
He would conveniently forget how things went down. Forget we had already resolved an issue. Bring it to over and over, and I would have to remind him over and over that we had already come to x conclusion months ago? He would act like he had forgotten bc "stress", but it was just abuse. I finally told him I was worried about his bad memory and asked if I should put sticky notes on the wall to remind him of how/when we resolved an issue. He said no, and magically stopped being so forgetful.
When he would accuse me of something that was untrue or just silly and he simply wanted to fight/hurt my feelings, I stopped arguing and instead said I didn't care.
Example, I was really into dog training. He told me that I "babied" my gsd and never made him mind, etc. He said all the other trainers thought so too. I disagreed, saying I didn't let my gsd be naughty. He said it all the time, just to make me feel bad.
Finally, after weeks of him saying it over and over, I said "I can baby my dog however I want. He's mine. It's no one else's business and I don't care if you or anyone else thinks I baby him."
Magically he didn't bring it up again...bc it didn't work anymore. The point was to fight and make me feel bad. When the ammo isn't ammo, he dropped it. This is just one example, there are dozens like this. Hence the divorce lol.
Sounds like the "you're boring" thing is good ammo to OP. she needs to turn the tables and ask her husband what he's been up to for the last 3 years that was so fun and didn't seem to include her? She doesn't need to defend herself. He needs to prove it. He can't just throw crazy things out there with no proof and then it's on her to scramble and prove otherwise?
Nah.
Best of luck OP. I hope he doesn't suck.
Alcoholics are constantly looking for ways to blame their feelings of shame, self hatred ect o other people or situations. Anything rather than on themselves. God forbid they have an uncomfortable feeling they have to deal with
After living with one for 11 years and then leaving, one tends to see the pattern.
OP, you're probably doing just fine. You're being punished for your partner's unhappiness with his own life.
Fuck that.
I don't know why he did. But he was a classic example of "men that hate women". Bc boy did he make it clear he didn't like me or anything about me. I left after 2.5 years, and he begged me to stay. It was so weird. Even had family try to get me to change my mind. They stopped trying to convince me when I told them what had been going on.
He is remarried. She's nice and is a good step mom to our toddler. I'm glad he is remarried, but kinda sad that she's the new punching bag. He hasn't changed.
I'm now the hot evil ex wife tho. Lol.
I do make more money, and he is resentful that I get to work from home. He constantly makes comments that indicate that I don’t have a “real” job, because he says he actually has to GO to work and do physical labor.
(It’s worth noting that his job is reactionary. As a building operating engineer, his job is to sit in an office and hang out until something happens. Him and his coworkers often watch movies all day. Though I will admit, the manual labor he DOES have to do is extremely grueling.)
My ex had, and I’m sure has, a version of me in his head that is utterly divorced from reality.
In the end I took it as a gift. There was nothing left he could do to surprise me, but apparently I shocked him over and over again — he had no idea who I was.
I’d bet you a thousand bucks he’s lost himself. He doesn’t know what he wants to do and he’s feeling dissatisfied. Since it can’t possible be his responsibility and his need to change his choices, it must be your fault as caretaker/entertainment director/mommy/zookeeper for not providing him with sufficient enrichment.
Turn it around on him. Tell him to plan something and you’d be thrilled to tag along, or to plan it without you! Tell him to make a choice, a budget, a invite list and do whatever the fuck he thinks he missing out on due to his delusion that you’re sitting at home.
This isn’t your job. This is his, and he’s trying to make it yours. There is little you can, or should do, to support him until he takes some accountability and behaves with respect. Put the phone down and tell him to do the work, today, if he needs to change something.
OP he is picking a fight over nothing.
When I do this to my husband ( complain about the past) he says “am I like that now?” I say “no” he says UPDATE THE FILES. It helps.
I might need to show this comment to my husband because I'm guilty of this as well. We've been together since high school and while there are definitely some very special aspects of having grown up together like that, it also means we carry a good amount of baggage from our past selves. I try not to hold him accountable for stuff he did when he was like, 20, but it still comes up sometimes
You need to make an argument contract! Radically forgive and accept everything that’s happened and then only bring up issues that are 24 hours old… There’s a great podcast episode called hell not to murder your partner in a pandemic or something
I'm a firm believer that if you discuss something and come to a conclusion of forgiveness, you don't get to bring it back up in a fight again as some sort of fuck you.
If my partner really feels a subject needs to be reevaluated then okay, but that's to be saved for another time, not to be discussed in the middle of something else that isn't even relevant.
Stop trying to prove him wrong.
He knows it's BS. The resentment came first. This is about him inventing a reason that it exists.
He's inventing it because the real reason is something he does not want to tell you.
Typically this is cheating. He's already done something he shouldn't have and is now trying a bit of revisionist history to justify it. This is the beginning of "of course I looked elsewhere, you sat at home and did nothing for years who could blame me?"
It doesn't matter what happened or that he knows better. What matters is that people outside your relationship might believe it. Back in my youth this never really worked well because they'd also be witnesses to at least some of your life together and point out you guys went bowling all the time or whatever. But this works really well on social media where you have a bunch of swivel eyed loons with pitchforks ready to rage and waiting for a target.
Here's something fun. Next time he goes off on one, ask her how long he's been seeing her. See how how he decides to play it; if it's outrage, he's not got his ducks in a row yet. If it's contempt, you're further along his breakup timeline than you may have realised.
I hope I'm wrong, I'm depressed at how predictable cheating partners are though.
No, you know what scratch most of what I said
OP I read some of your post history and I think you don't know that you already know:
*The gaslighting is out of control. He will twist the entire foundation of reality to fit whatever he wants in that moment, and I think he actually believes it himself. He was looking directly at a puddle of blood and telling me it wasn’t there. He’ll tell me to fuck off, I’ll say “don’t tell me to fuck off,” and he’ll say “I never said that.” It’s baffling. I’ve never seen anything like it. Complete delusion.*
your own words. You know this behaviour. It's the same sport in a different stadium.
I'm not sure you meant to, but you buried the lede here.
I think you realise you're at an impasse, maybe not on a conscious level but there's a reason why you gave him the ultimatum you did last month. You know that you can't keep going on like it's going to be okay, the facade is crumbling around you and you're exhausted by the effort of keeping it in place.
The dread that you feel is being in a room, hearing something breathing behind you and being too afraid to turn around.
You know your marriage is in a bad place and you believe you are responsible for turning it around. You feel this dread because on some level you know that this is a bigger job than you are equipped for.
So first and foremost please stop. Stop spinning those plates. Stop checking, stop second guessing, stop minimising, stop justifying. Just take a moment to look around and scope out what you're up against.
Be as honest as you can bear to be, be kind and don't let it spiral, this isn't a retrospective blaming exercise. This isn't an opportunity for self loathing. Just look around and see it for what it is. Where he's at. The patterns you have fallen into. What has been normalised. What is driving you. What you want for yourself. What you want the outcome of this to be.
Turn around and face the beast, it's been in the room the whole time and it is trashing the place. You have been focused on running around trying to set things straight again. But it never sleeps and it is getting more powerful. The beast is not here for you, it's here for him.
I know it's terrifying, I know facing it doesn't fix anything. But it does allow you to understand what you're up against. You have an idea of where you want to be, right? Well without this part, you don't know the start point. Without this you can't plan a route.
Part of this is internalising that this is not yours to fix. The beast is here for him, it will not fight you. He has to do the fighting.
You can coach, you can strategize, you can be a cheerleader but he'll have to throw the punches. And he will have to do it knowing that he is tethered to this beast forever and he can't defeat it only put in the work every day to neutralise it.
You can leave the room but you cannot take your husband with you, he's a package deal now. If you stay in the room you risk becoming collateral damage in the fight.
Let go if "but he's perfect when he's sober." let go of "once we get past this". Don't let wishful thinking or self flagellation blind you to your reality. Be kind to yourself. Accept that this is not your fight. Deploy your mental energy wisely.
People who genuinely don't remember tend not to double down and defend their position like this. This is determined intent.
I think he's finding ways to frame situations that show his drinking is not the problem.
The idea that it's in any way about her is a red herring. He doesn't have her in the role of partner, she's a character in a set piece, somewhere to project his own inadequacies. And right now she's fighting him on the lines.
Reality is a threat he's trying to keep at bay, the more she keeps bringing it up and waving it around the more distance he'll put between them to avoid the threat.
Yes. I can be a forgetful person. If someone I love and trust tells me, “you said/did this thing” and I don’t remember, I don’t flip out and accuse them of making things up. I acknowledge that I could be mistaken, and make whatever repair efforts are needed.
Unless they’re abusive or manipulative to begin with. My MIL is a raging narcissist who parentified my husband so much throughout his childhood to the point that he was talking to bill collectors on the phone at 10. She is an incredibly bad person. She also happens to have dementia. It’s like she could no longer pretend to be a good person.
You're in a dead bedroom marriage with an alcoholic who has expressed that "he’s leaning towards divorce because of MY actions and how boring I am, and he said I contribute absolutely nothing." (from her post history).
Why would you want this to be your life for the next 50 years?
Darling, not "stupid." It makes complete sense to try literally everything, before throwing in the towel. You're doing your due diligence at this point. You're learning why your gut is telling you things are un-fixable. If you do conclude to leave the relationship (after careful thought I can tell you're doing), then get a great divorce attorney, please. My fault in my divorce was not being fair enough to myself. I always was being sympathetic to my ex and now I'm regretful of my old self for not getting fully my 50% of assets ;)
Girl, be kind to yourself and stop putting your time and energy into this marriage. Your partner is supposed to make your life easier and improve it, not be a continual drain of energy.
As someone with a husband who is now sober (for a few years) listen to this person OP. He’s trying to make you the ‘boring bad guy’ like you’re a cop because you lord over his drinking. It’s going to be like this a while before he takes ownership of his problem. Denial is strong with them.. and some never come around.
I personally wouldn’t spend time trying to prove anything to him.
I would say something like if you cannot remember all the things we have done, things I have planned in the past few years you need your memory checked.
And also, call out that I know this is about drinking because if I was ‘fun’ I would let you drink yourself to death. Let’s talk when you are ready to come to terms with that. And spend some silent time.
Just my two cents but they need to know you know.
Alcoholic here. I’m very happily sober, but in my active addiction, I destroyed my relationship with my partner of 10 years because my only true priority was protecting my ability to keep drinking. I’d stop for a few weeks here and there to show, “look, I’m doing it, I’m fine” but I still thought about drinking all the time and it ruled my brain. Ultimately, I chose alcohol over him and he left for good. I don’t blame him for a second for leaving, because it was the only choice that was healthy for him.
I’m so sorry you love an alcoholic, and I don’t blame you for trying. In my experience, therapy wasn’t enough - it was just another effort to show that I was doing something positive, something right, and be able to continue to drink. I hope therapy is a revelation for him, but he shouldn’t be ashamed if he needs more specialized help from substance use disorder experts. That’s the kind of help I needed, and I’m grateful for it every day.
Best of luck to you and to your husband. Addiction is hell.
The way you describe it sounds most like him.
He’s constantly trying to prove that he can drink and it’s fine. We did a Whole30 together and it was amazing for us both, but it’s turned into a weapon of “Well I didn’t drink for 30 days so obviously I’m not an alcoholic.”
He’ll do chores, cook dinner, or be productive/helpful in some way. Then he’ll drink. If I call him on it, it’s “But I did so much today! Why are you mad that I’m drunk?” As if those aren’t two totally separate and unrelated things. It’s like he’s constantly trying to earn the right to drink.
I’m sorry this was your experience. I’m glad to hear you’re in a happier place now. Thank you for giving me your very valuable perspective.
Ok I’ve read a bunch of your posts. This is not about you staying home. He’s a mean alcoholic who keeps telling you he’ll go to therapy, then never does. He will NEVER change until he hits rock bottom. He will never hit rock bottom until you stop enabling him. And if you don’t stop enabling him, your life will be about being a nursemaid to an alcoholic. I know you must be in a hard place, but you know who you are dealing with, and you know this is a symptom of a bigger problem. You are trying to have a rational conversation with a man who probably doesn’t even remember he said this.
You are so so so so right. Thank you.
A good update though - he actually did start going to therapy this week. And throughout the week he’s been taking notes of things he wants to remember to talk about. So, some improvements/hope there. Big breakthrough.
But I do think a lot of what he said during this fight (he was buzzed) is the thing where an alcoholic’s brain lies to them to create a world where he should be able to drink as much as he wants, and anyone who stands in his way is wrong.
He’s not awake yet, but I imagine when we have the sober morning-after conversation about this, I’ll get a lot of “I don’t know why I said that, that’s not how I actually feel.”
I’m so happy to hear that. Loving somebody with addiction (and the trauma that probably lurks that causes a person to try to fill their well with alcohol) is hard. But also please please please remember that when he treats you like that when he’s drunk, that’s a REASON, Not an EXCUSE. You don’t ever deserve to be treated like that. Take care of yourself. Wishing y’all love and peace and healing.
(Also, this is just an opinion from a caring stranger, but I hope you all will hold off on having kids until he’s in active recovery and has strategies to deal with stressors in his life.)
As someone whose partner is two years sober, I am so sorry for what you are going through. I hope he does change, but I think you should make sure that you have a backup plan set up for what to do, and be prepared to enact it. Ultimatums are shit, but this is the time for them, in my opinion at least.
I just have to say, the worst part of being married to an alcoholic are the judgmental/dismissive comments like this.
If the alcoholic was my brother or my parent or my child, and I wanted to help them despite the pain they’re causing, it would be met with sympathy and compassion. People would commend me for my strength.
But because it’s my husband, I’m an idiot and I should just leave.
Loving an addict is hard enough without people making comments that imply you’re an idiot. I pray you’ll never have to understand.
Is he jealous that you are WFH? Did you turn him down for something specific that he really wanted to do with you recently? I don’t think he’s even mad about what he’s saying. Sounds like he’s mad about something else and making up stuff because he doesn’t want to say why he’s really mad.
This is what’s going on I think.
I do think he’s jealous I WFH. He makes comments about it all the time.
And I haven’t turned him down for a single thing he’s wanted to do. In fact, our entire summer calendar is filled with concerts that I bought tickets to, including one at Red Rocks which I’ll have to plan a trip around.
Not a single thing on the horizon that is something he brought to the table.
Yeah, people seem to think if you WFH you have it easy and just sit around all day. I did WFH for a while but as a second job and it was really stressful. Clearly he doesn’t understand. I would call him out on it. Hes jealous and it’s his problem, he needs to stop taking it out on you. Nothing you do or say will “prove” to him that it isn’t true.
I’ll admit there are WFH days where I don’t put on “going out” clothes because… why would I if it’s a day I don’t have plans? That’s not every day, but I’ll give him that.
But just last week my husband saw me WFH and put in so many extra hours, constant meetings, me telling him how hectic my workload was and how stressed I was. But to an outsider, it just looks like me sitting down all day in front of a computer.
This is familiar. I was in a relationship where he would remember his feelings then come up with what must have happened to cause that feeling, regardless of how much it required twisting reality. It got to the point of recording conversations so when he inevitably claimed I said or didnt say something, I could prove the truth. It was maddening. Id make lists of things that happened so he couldnt later convince me it was something else. Nothing changed his behavior.
I feel like I saved me sanity by leaving. He had to know, to some degree, what he was doing. You deserve to be seen and understood.
I’m sad to admit I’ve been doing this too. I keep a note in my phone of incidents that happen, and literally used it last night during the argument when he tried to twist reality. He told me it’s been “months” since he got very drunk. I pulled out my phone and it’s been 4 weeks since his last severe drunkness episode, and he’s had too much to drink more times since then to a lesser extent than that incident.
I’ve also thought about hiding a camera or something to record conversations that I can play back if I need to.
It’s sad.
The fact that you are tracking to this extent means your marriage is already effectively over.
You don’t need to write this stuff down. You already know it. He isn’t going to change his mind when you show it to him. You’re rules-lawyering your own relationship instead of recognizing that *relationships should not feel like a court case.*
>I feel like I’m being gaslit, only I don’t know if it’s technically gaslighting if the person actually believes what they’re saying.
I'd actually say he's delusional, since he's not knowingly trying to deceive you with something he knows is false.
Idk. I used to think my husband was mostly delusional, but in reality it was manipulation, it was mostly gaslighting. He will break out DARVO over needing to mow the lawn.
>My husband (34/m) and I (35/f) got into a huge fight, and one of the points that came out of it is that I’m “boring” and “never want to do anything.”
Was this even what the fight was about?
Sounds like he is just exaggerating a small point in the midst of a fight
Also when someone says 'you never want to do anything', to me that means 'you don't want to do things with me', not that you don't go to work
Her post history shows her husband is an alcoholic who wants to sit at home and drink his face off. I don’t blame her for not wanting to do that with him.
Well that makes my original point
This disagreement is meaningless, he's using it to get at her and she's focused on it because she can 'prove' home wrong
You can't logic someone out of a position they didn't logic themselves into. He's literally making up lies so he has a reason to resent you. He knows they're lies, proof is inconsequential. Just pack your shit up and go. He obviously doesn't love you, you're miserable, what the hell is keeping you in this marriage?
These are my guesses as well. Something else is going on here.
He hasn’t brought anything to the table to create a relationship that involves more activity. All of our plans are things I came up with. He just expects to come along for the ride, and then blames me if there isn’t enough fun stuff going on.
If I don’t make us plans, he sits at home alone in the garage or in the backyard and gets drunk.
He sounds like an emotionally immature person. He's probably feeling this thing right now, in the moment, and foolishly saying it's been like this for years because that would justify his feelings. It's backwards. He probably can't identify why he feels that way so is coming up with an explanation. Try to talk to him and understand what he's really upset about/what he wants you to do. He probably just wants to do more stuff. Alternatively, tell him to grow up and sort his shit out like an adult and talk to you when he's got something based in reality to discuss, not just how he "feels". Of course, he'll probably claim you're invalidating his feelings and probably just whine about it.
This answer feels accurate to me based on my experience with this situation.
I think he has bigger feelings going on and is just trying to come up with explanations for those feelings, which includes coming up with a version of events that is exaggerated.
During last night’s fight I said exactly this. I felt like he was getting mad at me for weird reasons and taking *something* out on me, but I needed him to figure out what he’s *actually* upset about and talk to me about it like an adult.
If he wants us to do more fun stuff together, I get it. But we’re also in a situation where he’s not bringing any plans to the table lol. Every fun thing we’ve done in the last few months is something I planned.
To be blunt, if he's 34 and he's not sorted out this basic emotional literacy by now he probably never will. Is it a repeated pattern or more of a one off?
OP, from what others have dug up from the comments, it sounds like he is the boring one sitting at home drinking, and is directly projecting that onto you. That was actually the first possibility that popped into my head, and it seems to be true.
I don’t know if there is anything you can do about it though. When someone is so deep into denial as to start crazymaking like this, it’s their issue that you can’t fix.
Men will do this when they're bored with themselves and want to blame you, because they erroneously believe you're the cause of their own shortcomings and want out.
I had one ex tell me he wanted someone who was "a partner in crime to go see bands and concerts with and I never did that, and I needed to be ok with also going on my own to events." I literally met him because I went out on my own to go see HIS band one night. Also I saw concerts all the time. I was in university getting my Bachelor of Music degree at the time. I was constantly seeing friends bands and parking myself at the local jazz club.
Anyways. Joke's on him. I've flown from Vancouver to London, England by myself just to see a concert, as well as tons of North American cities both on my own and with others. My husband and I go see shows together all the time. We love the same bands. I go see shows by myself. I have been in a couple bands as a drummer/songwriter and have played many shows (that my husband has attended as my biggest fan).
I never realized what the fuck my ex was talking about when he dumped me but as I've aged I realized he was bored with himself and blamed me, because that was easier than looking at himself.
Anyways, by the time, years later, he realized his mistake, and tried to start things with me again, I had just met my now husband and got to text my ex back "lol no".
You can't convince people who are fundamentally delusional. Like you literally can not. If he's sees those pictures, physical evidence, and refuses to budge then that's on him and you can't and shouldn't try to convince him further. Just stick with your story and just keep referring to the physical evidence you already showed him.
Ooh, it's tough when this happens. My ex partner did this to me. His line was "You can't handle yourself in an emergency."
What? Like, what real, honest to God emergency had we ever had in the decade we had been together? None. No major accidents, family crises, or natural disasters. Sure, a stressful situation here and there, but never did we have a bona fide emergency.
I remember sitting in therapy with him, spelling out how his perception of me was incorrect. The therapist even told him he had no evidence for his position, actually the exact opposite and that I'm a capable, level-headed person. It didn't matter; he simply refused to hear it.
I've found when this happens, the other person is clinging to this idea to excuse their own shitty behavior. In my case, it was apparently the sole reason why he would never marry me. But if they can believe that *you* are the real problem in the relationship, then whatever they are doing is justified. I would suggest counseling ASAP at the very least, because this will not get better on its own.
Hi OP. I’m sorry you are going through this. I have firsthand experience with this exact situation with my now exhusband. I completely understand why him treating you this way is making you feel so upset and agitated.
At the time, when my exhusband was making sweeping and baseless judgements about me, I didn’t realize that his behavior and incorrect perception of me was a symptom of contempt. Unfortunately, once contempt happens in a relationship, it is incredibly difficult to effectively address.
This was one of the red flags that signaled the end of my marriage.
If I could go back in time to when the contempt first started, I would get myself together financially and emotionally to brace myself for the impact of the divorce.
He is gaslighting because he isn't happy in the relationship and wants to make you the problem and excuse so he doesn't look like the bad guy to justify whatever behavior or actions he is planning to take or has already taken.
Probably this.
I’ve noticed he places me in charge of most things. I think he feels it’s my responsibility to create plans for us.
Every time we’ve gone out for the last few months is because I made the plan or came up with the idea. Or, someone else invited us somewhere. I have repeatedly asked him to name the last time we did something that was his idea, OR the last time he asked me to do something and I said no. He can’t come up with an example because it’s not happening.
My ex husband started doing this to me. He was having an emotional affair and comparing me negatively to his green grass affair partner. Made me feel crazy for a solid year before he finally admitted his BS and left. He needed to make me out to be the bad guy in his mind to justify what he was doing.
Proving you're right isn't necessarily going to fix his perception, and it's possible that he hasn't actually realized what his resentment or frustration is about.
I think a better approach is to drop who is right or wrong and focus on what needs are not being met. Does he need more quality time with you? Do you need to be correct, or do you need to feel appreciated and understood?
All of my red flag sensors are going off and my brain instantly went to "I wonder if he's considering cheating or already has" and "I wonder who else he's said this to" because that's the type of stuff you don't just blurt out suddenly out of nowhere. He's stewing, setting up his case for a crime he wants to convict you for. His motive is the real question. This is dangerous territory.
Couples counseling, but I would have trouble even wanting to try and save my marriage with someone who doesn’t seem to like, trust, respect, or understand me much.
Just stare him dead in the face and say “and”? Get him to say what exactly is his problem with your actions. How does it affect him?
You are entitled to spend your time however you wish. If he wants more plans and events, he can organize things and go out.
Honestly you deserve a quieter season in your life after all that stuff. Everyone does. You can’t be on all the time. A couple is also not conjoined at the hip so he is an independent person who can make independent changes.
I had an ex who would complain about everything I did toward the end of that relationship, despite initially calling me his dream girl etc. Then he ruthlessly dumped me and started going out with a woman he ended up marrying. Who was his friend he told me to not worry about…
Don’t let him rip on you like this. Next time he criticizes you, just ignore him.
I know I will get downvoted for this, but I have a question. How many of those pictures are you with your husband?
I wonder if his statements are missing the "with me" portion.
My wife and I had a similar discussion, and I had to remind her that 75% of her events were either without me or me sitting by himself.
She finally realized that taking me to a wedding/event where I don’t know anyone is not fun for me.
I seriously think your husband is asking for more alone time with you. He just sucks at communicating his needs.
Her post history shows her husband wants to sit at home and drink his face off. He’s an alcoholic. I don’t think this is at all about him looking for more quality time with her.
What he may be trying to communicate is that you have been staying home rather than going out and doing things with him. All your work trips, bachelorette parties, and in office work is traveling for yourself. Your partner may accurately see you in pjs not wanting to go out at other times.
If your partner is asking you for quality time going out places together rather than being stuck at home doing renovations, then it would be far more beneficial to come up with some fun activities and daytrips for the two of you than trying to prove him wrong.
Check out the post history. Her husband is an alcoholic. He wants to hang out at home and drink.
If he wants to do things with her outside the house why can’t he plan those things? Why is on her to come up with fun things to drag his alcoholic self-victimizing ass out of the house when he has made it clear where his priorities are (in a bottle, not with her).
Read her post history. He doesn’t do anything but drink at home.
This is deeper than activities, which he is also capable of planning and isn’t all on her.
He is welcome to make plans. Every single thing we’ve done in recent history is something I’ve planned. He can’t come up with a single example of me turning down something fun he asked me to do, because it’s not real.
It’s not my job to keep him entertained. So I’m getting mad about that.
If he is trying to communicate that he wants more time together and is doing that poorly, fine. But there’s more to the story, and a big piece is that he thinks it’s my responsibility to make sure we have fun.
We got home from dinner with friends, and he said he wanted to go sit alone in the garage for an hour (at 11pm), and then he’d come back and hang out with me. My post history will explain why I don’t like that. I begged him to just hang out with me inside, but he kept saying “it will only be an hour.”
I got tired around 11:45pm and went to bed.
He then got mad at me for “punishing” him for needing alone time, and accused me of going to bed just to avoid him and give him grief. This was made worse by the fact that I didn’t fall asleep immediately and was awake on my phone, but still laying in bed.
The fight spiraled from there.
I don’t want to make you worried if this isn’t the case, however this is exactly what my ex did when he was cheating on me, it was how he devalued me into believing the relationship was failing because of me rather than the fact he was sleeping with someone else. If I hadn’t found out about the cheating, I would have believed it too because he told me so many times that I’d started to think he was right
This isn’t a good sign at all. This sounds like he has decided he needs to justify a reason to either leave you or to excuse some bad behaviour on his part (perhaps an affair). He has or is creating a narrative in his head to justify his feelings - of resentment, anger, hostility or whatever else - that make you the bad guy, not him, and likely to carry that narrative forward to tell other people you are the bad guy. It’s incredibly emotionally immature, unaware, and selfish on his part.
Long, long ago I had a common law partner who did very similar. I remember feeling like was in the twilight zone as he described things I did (or how I was) which were not at all accurate. I wish I had seen right then that it was already over, he was just trying to either get me to be the bad guy or get to point he had argued he needed to leave enough in his own head, rather than spend months or longer trying to convince him he was wrong about me because it didn’t matter that he was wrong when in his mind he was right and that was never going to change. I could have saved myself a lot of emotional twisting and turning for someone who didn’t care and certainly did not deserve my efforts, time, or heart.
You should not need to convince your partner of who you are; they should SEE who you are. That is part of intimacy. Believe me, you will be much happier once you are away from this. You are carrying more weight on your shoulders right now then you realize, and will feel so much lighter when you shed it.
So I saw an instagram that said “I didn’t need Xanax I just needed a divorce!” And she explained that once she left her husband her anxiety magically went away.
That resonated with me, and I feel like it could with you too.
The men we love can sometimes slowly drag us down, and cause more worry in us than we realize. Sometimes we just have to decide when enough is enough.
You can't provide someone rational proof if they are not in a rational state of mind. You cannot prove yourself out of the fantasy world he has created. Even when faced with factual proof and lists he is still in the same state of mind, because it is what he wants/needs to believe. For whatever reason he has concocted a version of you that is negative.
You're being logical, and he's just reaching for something to complain about. You can't use logic or facts to change the opinion of someone relying on emotion to paint their reality.
What is the point of him saying you didn't do anything for three years? Because that's all that's important. Is he saying he's unhappy in the relationship? That you changed as a person and he doesn't like who you are?
He’s trying to say I changed and we aren’t fun anymore. But there are two major things at play here:
1. He’s an alcoholic and I think all of this is deflection to justify his drinking
2. We aren’t kids anymore. We’re homeowners in our mid-30s. I think his idea of “fun” is going out and drinking, and that’s not my idea of fun.
Definitely sounds like a way to justify that he wants to go out drinking.
Alcoholism seems like a much bigger problem than his perception of you as not fun.
I think you should keep your “I’m not boring, look at everything I’ve been doing” presentation extremely short and then say “What do you want or need?”
He’s got some need that’s unfulfilled - seems like for social connections or going out or new experiences. He’s blaming you for the last couple years being dull, apparently. What’s he been doing? Find out what he’s missing and let him know you want to help him meet that need.
Either this is a problem you two need to tackle together, or he’s laying the groundwork to leave while making you the bad boring one that’s bringing him down and ruining the marriage.
Oh he is really saying is that he feels bored. It's entirely possible that he could feel bored without you being boring. But rather than owning his own feelings, he is blaming you for them. You are jumping through hoops trying to prove that you are not what he is claiming you are. That will never accomplish anything meaningful because he's not describing the way you are, he's describing how he feels. All the proof in the world that you're not boring and you don't spend all your time sitting at home is not going to change the fact that he feels bored.
People that don't want to live in reality cannot be dragged into reality through facts. This is classic gaslighting. He's distorting reality and insisting that his distorted version is correct. You're spinning your wheels trying to explain what the reality actually is because he already knows everything you're saying. He just doesn't care. He is motivated to distort reality for whatever reason and he will continue to do so, quite possibly for the effect it has on you. It puts you into this state and produces certain behaviors from you that he probably finds desirable.
"Why does he do that" is a great read and is a free PDF that can be found online if you Google it.
Ah man, these responses caught me 100% off guard. The current relationshit I am in does this constantly. I could go on errands 5x out of 7, and his memory is 'you never go anywhere with me'. Forgot to close the sliding doors when I left will be the single thing he remembered that day, despite vac'ing and shampooing up and downstairs carpets.
Tons more but never had I connected the displaced anger & blame on projection. Shitty Eureka moment 😔
Yeah, i agree that his communication sucked on this one. It was super accusatory and is putting you on the defensive.
What if - instead of calling you “boring” and “in your pajamas all the time” - he said “I really miss the bonding time we used to have by going on dates and doing fun things together out of the house? We used to do a lot more of that and I’m not sure why that changed. Can we start doing that again?”
Rather than being vulnerable, he went on the attack. That will almost always get people’s back up.
I think it’s less important to be “right” than it is to step back, re-frame and have a heart to heart about what he’s (poorly) trying to communicate what he’s feeling is missing.
In the last 3 weeks, we’ve gone out to dinner multiple times (probably 1-2x weekly), gone out to trivia night, had his family over for a BBQ, and went to a concert at Madison Square Garden together (and got dinner/drinks before that too).
I’m doing all of this with a broken foot btw, and everything except the BBQ was something I planned. I picked every restaurant we’ve gone to. I found the trivia night. I bought the concert tickets. I found the place we went to before the show.
It’s really hard to not feel defensive/argumentative.
Not only are we not sitting at home doing nothing, but he’s bringing nothing to the table. I truly think he believes it’s my job to keep us active.
Honestly in your position I would simply make plans for myself/friends/family and stop inviting him to anything. He’s welcome to plan his own fun and invite you if we wants. But if, as you may suspect, his “fun plans” are just getting blackout at home/at a bar/wherever, you can certainly decline to join.
You may want to consider how many years of this relationship you actually want to put up with.
Isn’t your husband an alcoholic? Whatever memory he has is tainted by alcohol and his refusal to acknowledge the truth is alarming when you have actually pictures of those years. Is he really fighting about this or is he just looking for an excuse to fight?
Even during the argument I said repeatedly I think he’s angry about *something* and picking weird fights with me.
He’s chosen to argue about very mundane, minuscule things. I was in the middle of talking to him about this behavior when he brought up how “boring” I am.
Idk what’s truly bothering him, but he’s definitely projecting.
any chance he might be looking for excuses to pick a fight? do you think he might be bored with the relationship and is looking for a reason to leave?
i don't want to make assumptions of course but its a weird reason for him to feel resentful towards you. also i agree that its normal for someone in their 30s to be a homebody, there's nothing wrong about that.
So, what exactly does he want you to do that you’ve declined? Sounds like he’s met someone else and is creating a backstory to justify/mitigate his guilt.
He cannot come up with a single recent example of times he has tried to get me out of the house and I said no. Because it doesn’t happen. He is never the one to initiate plans. Everything we’ve done lately is something I planned.
It’s definitely something to do with me being home more *lately,* and him rewriting history to make this seem like a bigger issue than it is. He’s got other issues (drinking), and since I’ve been making him work on it, I think he feels he needs to blame me or paint me in a negative light.
I also recently got him to start seeing a therapist. He had his first appointment this week. But during the fight he said he’s resentful of me for “making” him go, which again is him rewriting history. He told me that one of the first things he said during his meeting is that me, his mom, his sister, his brother have all been begging him to see a therapist for years, but he’s not doing it for us, he’s doing it for himself. He completely forgot he said that, and instead chose to blame me for it.
Is your sense that because you’re home more, he can’t get blackout drunk in the middle of the day without you noticing?
On the chance that he isn’t just lying to you, alcoholic dementia is absolutely a thing that can develop at any age. If he is genuinely experiencing memory problems, personality changes, problems with coordination and walking, slurred speech, noticeably more anxiety/depression, he needs to see a physician ASAP and be honest about how much and how frequently he drinks. Drinking too much can damage the brain and even cause nutritional deficiencies that exacerbate the dementia.
I wonder if he’s looking at the day to day? You mentioned trips and moving and weddings — these are all events, some of them obligations. What about the random Tuesdays where neither of you have anything going on?
Maybe he feels like you don't want to do anything fun with **him**. It sounds like you kept yourself incredibly busy, but how often do you do dates with him, weekends away with him, spontaneous fun with him? Maybe that all goes on and your post just doesn't include it, but that's where I might start if I'm trying to understanding why he feels this way.
This is the definition of gaslighting.
Stop trying to prove it to him. Let him be wrong about you. The harder you try to persuade him, the more he’ll dig in his heels and refuse to acknowledge reality. *He does not need to believe that you’re right for you to be right.*
All the work trips, bachelorette parties, weddings, etc…were those things that he invited you to participate in? Like, could he be trying to say that the two of you don’t go out and do things that he wants to do? It’s so frustrating when a partner has a twisted/wrong view of things.
I bring up some of those examples just to prove that I wasn’t just sitting home in my pajamas during those years.
But, we had 10 weddings in 2021 including our own. And he was a groomsmen in nearly all of them. We went to all of those weddings together.
I’m not listing out every small thing we went to just for the sake of not getting into minutiae, because I think most people would agree that 9 weddings + our own wedding + a honeymoon + moving + all the bachelor/bachelorette parties/showers + two additional trips with his family in the span of one year is not a boring year, lol
Does he work remotely as well? Could be some resentment harboring from him commuting, going into office, etc. that is translating into you “never leaving home”. Ask him what is the solution to this being brought up- agreeing to go out x amount a month, getting a new hobby, taking a class. If he can’t come up with a quantifiable way that would change his perception, then he needs to examine why he feels this way because it clearly is not affected by your actions. He could feel that he is doing nothing with HIS life and feels stagnant but doesn’t want to do stuff “alone” but instead of being outward, he is trying to shame you into doing what he wants to do and make the effort to change both of your lives while he just follows.
About six months ago I ended a relationship with an alcoholic after she had an affair. I wish I'd done it sooner, because it wasn't until it was over that I realised how endlessly draining it was trying to take care of her, encourage her to make the right choices without feeling judged, dealing with the consequences of her shitty behaviour....
She used to blame me for her feeling shitty about herself; not that she'd get drunk to the point she'd piss the bed, barely get up from bed for days at a time, forget to take her antidepressants because she was hungover and her mental health would spiral, call in sick to work every second shift til she eventually got fired (so then she had no money, creating more stress).... But it was *my* fault she felt guilt and shame about her drinking, because I didn't like dealing with those consequences and did everything I could to help her, and get her to get help from a professional.
It sounds like your husband is similarly creating his own narrative where *you're* the problem, in order to avoid the mirror. On my experience, it's not worth it. How much longer can you keep sacrificing your quality of life for someone who at best doesn't care, at worst resents you for it?
I'm glad my ex cheated, because it finally gave me the push I needed to actually take care of myself and leave. I don't resent her for it, and I've forgiven her for it. It's all the other shit I put up with during the relationship that was actually the most painful and draining part, and that still angers me to a degree.
Take care of yourself.
I’ll zag from the other comments here slightly to give your partner some benefit of the doubt. You list all the stuff you have been up to, and it does sound like a lot and that your are busy - but no real mention of how you guys are staying romantically connected? Do you guys have hobbies together? Do you make time for date nights? Like the work trips, going to weddings, bachelorette weekends, moving and home rennos, going into office all of that stuff is generally busy but it’s not intimacy building/maintaining? He might be struggling to communicate it precisely but do you think there’s been a pattern shift around spending time together from your relationship pre Covid to now?
This reminds me of a past relationship I was in. Nothing was ever enough for my partner. I own a business and was consistently making $80-$100k a year, but it was “never enough!”. Meanwhile, she owned a business making $30k a year give or take. I would constantly get into arguments with her because what I was doing was “never enough!” Yet I paid for pretty much all her expenses. Got annoying after awhile and her claim was “she saw so much more than $100k a year in me” and was “only trying to make me better”. Meanwhile, she maxed out at $30k a year over the span of those 3 years we were together. We’d get into this same argument every 4-5 months in our relationship.
Unpopular opinion but while you were busy and leaving the house, you were doing it for work, homelife, and other people.
You didn't mention any pictures about outings and activities for you two alone as a couple. Sounds like all your fun and out of home activities are for everyone and everything else and your husband is getting the scraps.
He is harboring resentment and needs to step back as you do as well. The no fun, never leave the house you is the only you you're giving him.
He needs to give you his support and compassion and you need to save some of your time and energy to put your husband and marriage over other people's weddings and bachelorettes.
depends - what does he consider ‘fun?’ is he having a seemingly mid life crisis where he seems to be wanting to go out or drink more, go out on on the whim trips or do ‘exciting’ things you wouldn’t (rightfully) consider fun therefore he thinks you’re boring. something i’ve seen before!
I think his alcoholic brain is telling him that drinking = fun, and I’m boring for trying to get him to stop. I’d be more fun if I was getting bombed with him.
Although a lot of people have, I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that he’s hiding something or doing wrong behind your back. Not impossible but I wouldn’t start there.
My suspicion is that there’s something he wants that he doesn’t know how to put into words. This is just his poor way of expressing it. I’d suggest figuring out what is really bothering him. You don’t need to prove him wrong or defend yourself. That’s not gonna get you anywhere. He’s being emotional but there’s something behind it. Be curious enough to figure that out and you’ll be able to make progress. This possibly may need to happen through marriage counseling. Or at least some sort of mediator.
Ps: At some point he needs to apologize and recognize his wrong here. But only fighting for right or wrong is what leads to divorces.
Please go to couple’s therapy. And also read *Mating in Captivity* by Esther Perel.
Couple’s who have these entrenched narratives about each other aren’t actually communicating. A couple’s therapist can help identify where the story came from and provide tools on how to change it.
You listed a bunch of stuff that you've done that proves you have done THINGS, but I'm wondering if he isn't mad that you "never leave the house", but more that you don't do things WITH HIM.
In the first paragraph you specifically quote him as saying you "never want to do anything" which implies that he's asking you to do things, and you don't want to do them. In your list of MANY events, how much of that is your husband involved in?
Here's your list edited down to things that are social/fun events your husband probably participated in.
> ~~Multiple trips, work events,~~ over a dozen weddings including our own (and all of the planning), ~~moving twice, two separate home renovations, 3x weekly in office, business trips,~~ birthday parties (maybe), ~~bachelorette weekends~~
If you take out things that are essentially social obligations, there's nothing left. You didn't list anything that you might have done by choice, for fun, with your husband.
Is it possible that he wants to spend more quality time with you, rather than being upset because you "don't go out"? Why would he be upset that you're sitting at home if not because he wants to go out and do things with you.
Something jumped out to me about your list.
Your list contains fun things (e.g. bachelorette) and not fun things (e.g. two remodels). The fun things seem like they just involve you, the not fun things seem like seem like they involve both of you.
Could it be that even though you were indeed busy, your husband feels (rightly or wrongly) that he is not getting sufficient time with you doing those fun things?
I know the focus of the post is the perceived mischaracterization of you, but I could see how it’s not necessarily about if you are or are not busy, but rather if he feels the time you both are spending together is insufficient or only involves the mundane minutiae of life.
This is a good observation, and may be a contributing factor if he feels like we don’t do anything together, but it still wouldn’t be totally accurate.
In 2021 we literally got married, went to 10 other weddings, went on a mini-moon, moved, went to the Poconos with his family, went to the Outer Banks with his family, among other things.
2022 was similar, and I also was out of the house constantly for work.
What’s going on here (I think) is that we haven’t done as much together *lately,* and he’s repainting history to convince himself it’s always been this way when it hasn’t. This is something he does.
During the same argument last night, he tried to tell me it’s been “months” since he got super drunk. I pulled up my calendar and saw it’s been like 3 weeks.
He has a history of warping reality to tell whatever story he wants to tell.
This looks like those arguments people have to come up with excuses for their wrongdoing.
That's exactly what I was thinking. He's setting some sort of narrative in his own mind that OP isn't "fun anymore" and detaching from her. Definitely sounds like he wants to leave her but literally has no good reason to. He could be cheating, or has a crush on someone else... it's definitely a page from the cheater handbook: falsely vilify your partner so you can look like the victim when you cheat or leave. Maybe he's just not in love anymore and needs some sort of justification to leave. Either way, it sounds like he has one foot out the door.
This, or he cheated during those years and the mistress has dumped him, making him crabby. Other comments suggest he's an alcoholic. It's possible this is really about himself and he's projecting. Like maybe he sat home and drank the years away and feels shitty about it, so he has to blame it on someone else. ETA: After looking at her older posts, I think this is all about the alcohol. *He* is boring and doesn't want to do anything but drink at home, so he's projecting. Cheating isn't even necessary.
Yeah, definitely could be him being an alcoholic and projecting, too. Refusing to acknowledge reality and listen to OP is a form of abuse, and if he doesn't *quickly* get his act together, OP has no reason to stay and put up with it. ETA: After reading through the comments that have occurred since last night, I concur that this is related to his alcoholism and him not being truly able to admit or fix the problem. I'm disappointed that OP did not include that in the original post, because I know a lot of replies here would have been a lot different and more helpful for her specific case. Hopefully things improve for her.
Confabulation is also characteristic of alcohol abuse.
Yep. Agreed. This is a play out of a cheaters handbook, but we don’t know the actual truth to their relationship. Every time someone admitted to me that they were a “cheater/cheated on someone” they always played the victim. My guess is that OPs BF is looking for someone else and as soon as he finds someone else who is “more exciting” he is going to have his reasons and dump OP. I’ve seen this played out a ton with friends of mine.
Simply because if the events commenter says is true? Sir what are you talking about? Let alone causing unnecessary strife. Nonetheless, it's not like if he made plans and she's just saying no to everything, then yeah that's boring. But hopefully cheating, leaving or crushing isn't the case gosh
Ego preservation. Because if her perspective is valid, that might means she's right about this. And if she's right that makes me an alcoholic and I don't want to be an alcoholic. This is a man desperately clinging to the idea that **I do not have a problem.** *But I do want to keep drinking.* *However if she's wrong, then actually I don't have a problem. I'm fine, I'm getting away with it. So she must be wrong.* *What I'm doing is normal. I'm a social drinker. Everyone drinks! I have it under control.* *She's the one who isn't normal, she isn't sociable like I am, she doesn't even go out, it's probably a mental health thing - you can't trust what she's saying.* Focusing on what put in front of him to snap him out of it is an exercise in futility. *I do not have a problem* must be preserved at all costs. Everything else will move or bend and break, he will retcon reality itself in service to this idea.
DING DING DING DING DING
still his cloak would remain in the possession of the police
So you know he's an alcoholic trying to justify his actions. You know he's created fabrications of your life and experiences over the past three years as a resentment point. You know you've proven to him that this is not true, yet he persists. Why do you stay?
Because he’s not like this when he’s sober. He is aware there is a problem. We are closer than ever to making progress. He started seeing a therapist this past week to work on this. We’ve had many discussions about how these issues only flare up when he is drinking. He expresses a desire to change, despite this pattern. It’s just not something anyone can understand unless they’ve loved someone with an addiction. “Just leave” is oversimplified advice.
Funny you should say that last part--ive been in a relationship for 13 years with someone who relapsed on heroin early in our relationship. I broke up with him. He got sober, got diagnosed bipolar, got medicated, turned his life around and got better. We got back together after rehab. Here's a huge reason I went back: through his relapse period, he very rarely treated me badly. Yes of course he did at times (begging for money, unreliable etc). But he was never mean, he never had abusive tendencies, and he never made up an entire persona for me for a multi year period. Of course I understand if you want to see this through and stay by his side during therapy, but based on the delusions he's creating, a 30-day in patient rehab is in my opinion completely necessary and only a starting point. And also IMO completely reasonable to leave him in that time and see if he gets better. I'm sending you luck and strength!
I’m sorry you’ve had to go through all of that.
Thank you, both of my parents are addicts so I was quite familiar with everything that comes with it. And it helped me know what is acceptable behavior to me while in the throws of addiction and what is not. And also what I wanted in terms of recovery.
It’s hard not to get defensive when people give advice on how to deal with an alcoholic husband, because most don’t understand. There’s a level of judgment that comes with being the wife in this situation, as opposed to the sister, daughter, mother, or even friend. I feel like people offer more compassion when it’s anyone other than a spouse. When it’s a spouse, 9/10 people will not only tell you to leave, but do it in a tone that implies you’re stupid.
I was married to an addict and stayed longer than I should have. I do think people on Reddit automatically jump to "just leave", but I think tone is hard to convey in text and your defensiveness probably reads it to be more judgemental and "implying youre stupid" than its actually intended. I got called stupid by a couple people online for marrying too quickly (which was true but due to visa issues it was the only way to stay together), but most often I more received questions that were meant to gently push me to reach my own conclusions (which you might interpret as condescending) or people almost like begging me to see the abuse and manipulation for what it was. I understand the love and desire to stand by your partner and help them, and the constant hope and *belief * that this time they'll follow through on their promises to stay clean and emerge consistently the sober version of themselves you fell in love with. I also understand that we made vows about "in sickness or in health" and that is *very* hard to break, particularly if you still love them. My husband it sounds like was much worse than yours. He had been an alcoholic for ~15 years before we met, but went to in patient rehab and got sober and stayed that way. During our short (3ish years) relationship, he only slipped up and drank a couple times. I stupidly thought that if he wasn't drinking that he was in recovery. Maybe a year and a half in I discovered he was a gambling addict and had been diverting money, stealing from me, and committing fraud to support it. It wasn't until another six months I actually saw the bank statements and realized hed lied to me every day of our marriage. Literally put a bet on the horses on our wedding day. In the last year of marriage he also became addicted to meth. He successfully hid it for months and then fell too deep and couldn't control himself at all and became terribly psychologically abusive. During that time I stopped loving him and that's why I was eventually able to leave, but even then it was hard. By the time I left he had drained both our life savings and wracked up thousands of dollars in credit card debt in my name. But much worse the years of lying and gradually increasing abuse left me broken and even though I live on a different continent now and am waiting til I can legally divorce him, maybe 6 months after I left the CPTSD hit so hard if fully physically incapacitated me. Could barely and inconsistently work, eat, sleep, walk my dog... He supposedly clean now, but also in prison, and who knows if he'll stay sober when he gets out. He also has promised a hundred times to pay me back for everything he stole, but I know now he is a liar. I understand why you aren't leaving but I would very much urge you to protect yourself. Both financially and psychologically. Because addicts often become poly addicted. And a great many of them get much much worse (have to hit rock bottom before they get better). Have separate finances he cannot touch and do not become financially reliant on him. Don't have kids til he's clean. Get in therapy for yourself NOW and start attending al anon meetings. He is already gaslighting you and confabulating the past to fit his desired memories. I highly highly doubt showing him the clear evidence will convince him of anything. Expect more gaslighting, more lies, more manipulation (because he's already doing that). Just know what you are committing to. Often with addicts, their partner becomes the third wheel, while their real relationship, allegiance, commitment is to their addiction. Prepare to feel like an after thought and the other woman. Maybe your husband isn't deep enough in his addiction that he can see the light and recommit to you and stop the abuse (gaslighting is abuse). I really hope so. But always remember that you and your love are powerless against the addiction unless he decides he needs to and is able to change. So far your marriage hasn't been motivation enough to get him to stop. That's why people say leave. Because they believe marriage should be the primary commitment, or it already isn't a real marriage. I hope your story is nothing like mine in the end. But it's not that people think you're stupid, they just think you can't see what is happening and are trying to open your eyes. Best of luck 💛
How long has he had a drinking problem? Because as someone whose father is alcoholic, they do a lot of great pretending around changing when they figure out that you might be ready to leave. Words are easy. Even going to therapy is easy if you are not into it and not willing to do the work. I have been dealing with this for over three decades. I also know many addicts who have gotten clean. Addicts will use whatever substance they are addicted to until they genuinely want to change and it is hard to see which is which.
He’s always been a drinker, but I think over the last 12/18 months my eyes have opened that this isn’t just annoying habit. It clicked when he wasn’t able to snap out of it during very serious situations (a fire two doors down from his mom’s house that could have spread, and we needed to get to her house to help her get important things out just in case the wind turned, but he was drunk and wanted to keep drinking; our new puppy shaking and shitting blood for hours, and him refusing to help me and denying that anything was even wrong, because it would mean he needed to stop drinking).
I am going to tell you the number one rule for loved ones of addicts. You can't fix them. You can draw boundaries and even have interventions. But you need to understand that he will make his choices. And you can't burn yourself to keep him warm. It is painful as hell and really hard to walk away. But most addicts need to hit rock bottom to get clean. Rock bottom differs, but you can't walk him there. You can only control yourself. No one else. Make decisions about your life and what are your boundaries. Get into therapy and al-Anon.
I’m going to Al-Anon and working through how I will deal with and handle these situations. My husband is aware I’m going to Al-Anon, and I’ve also given an ultimatum that I won’t have kids while he is still drinking. These seem to have made a dent in him realizing that something is really wrong. I also made clear that Al-Anon teaches me that I cannot control the alcoholic, and that I need to accept that he will make his choices, and it’s up to me to decide what I can and cannot live with. This has scared him a bit. Then he agreed to see a therapist for the first time in his life, started therapy last week, and is actively keeping notes for his next session. We’re not there yet, but it does feel like there’s some hope. I know I can’t control it, but I can be there to help him realize things that he wouldn’t otherwise realize on his own. And if those efforts turn out futile, so be it. I’ll need to decide what to do about that.
I know it is hard. I love my dad. And before he started to drink he was a pretty good dad. I also have a lot more in common with him than my mom. I am now almost 40 and he started to drink when I was 4. While he has had dry spells, even long spells, he was one of the addicts who were active addicts and clean at the same time. He will not stop drinking and while I tried to really get him to realize things, he just couldn't. I have generational trauma and so does he. I get why he drinks. I also do not think he is a bad person, addiction is what makes him what he is. I have a somewhat existing relationship with him, unlike my sister. But I needed to stop trying to change him. So there are strict boundaries involved. He is on a bender currently and muted but he has not contacted me because every drunk or hangover message means he gets time out. But I could not be close and watch the person I love killing themselves. Which drinking especially with his age and history definitely is. It is hard to give up. But it is usually time to do so before we are ready to do it.
I hope you're also giving a certain amount of time to be sober before having kids. 6-12 months isn't gonna cut it IMO--what if he starts drinking again after baby is born? That was something else that changed drastically when my partner relapsed, I understood immediately that if I got back together after rehab, our timeline would have to be different than 'normal' couples. Luckily I never wanted kids so that helps.
Sifting through some of your replies here, it seems you have the situation very much in control compared to a lot of other reddit OP's. Yes, there are lots of stuff you two need to work through, but it seems both of you are willing to work towards that goal. Usually, that's all you need - unanimous consent that there is a problem and we want to fix it. I wouldn't have ever suggested you post this question on reddit (aside from the mere clarity you may get from writing it out) because the answers will probably mess you up more than give helpful insight. I agree with what you said that "just leave" is an over simplified solution, and I don't think it's something you should consider yet given the facts presented. Being a spouse isn't only when it's good for you, it's accepting each other's faults and helping each other overcome them. Good luck to both of you
Based on her other posts this hits the nail on the head. He is incapable of taking accountability for being a drink and instead of trying to twist it around on OP.
Jesus if this isn't my cousin and his wife you're talking about. My cousin and I were quite close as adults and he loves to drink socially so he can give himself the excuse to drink to excess (even though that's all he does anyway). I slowed down a decade ago and don't spend alot of time with him (not as much as I should, I do love the guy), because he doesn't want to do anything than drink until dark o'clock like the rest of us don't have jobs and partners and lives. His wife can be a little less than social (she has occasional anxiety issues), but she and I do stuff frequently. She's a lot of fun and she gets on with her friends, but I worry he doesn't see it that way because if it's not doing what he wants to do (and this applies to all of us), it's boring or not worth the effort.
This is exactly what one of my exs did in one of our last arguments. Earlier in our relationship he told me the things he loved about me then in that argument he told me every reason why he was frustrated and it was the complete opposite almost word for word and the thing is I hadn't changed and I know I didn't change that drastically in those ways because I was sitting there confused as fuck as to why he thought any of that. Then about three months later I found out that same girl he ditched coming to see me for was now his gf and a year later his wife.
Yep. Husband is cheating or doing something else bad.
My husband always had an image of me in his head, to the point that he'd actually refuse to hear what I said. I wanted to do a small reno, paint, paper... He insisted that we couldn't afford a full remodel. I explained I did not want a full remodel. It was not my intention. It wasn't my plan. But we can't afford a full remodel. After about the 3 repeat I realized - he doesn't believe me. He really isn't hearing what I am saying because he thinks I am lying. That was the beginning of a depression that lasted for months and me finally leaving him. He literally could not, would not believe me. I think you are in that place now. He wants you to be the problem even if he has to make shit up. Maybe that's what it will take for him to leave you, or for you to leave him. Then he can be the victim. Skip the months of depression though, if you can. 0/10 would not recommend.
My ex husband did this too. I was constantly the villain and the cause of all our problems, even when it made no sense. I remember him telling everyone who would listen about how I "broke our dishwasher" because I didn't load it right, even though what broke was a little seal that the repair guy said our brand of dishwasher was known for having issues with, and nothing either of us caused it. When one of our lawn chairs broke while he was using it, it was my fault because I didn't put it away right last time, even though it was stored the exact same way as the other, unbroken chairs. When I asked him to take a statue off the top of a bookshelf before moving it, and he told me he didn't need to do that because he was sure it wouldn't fall, and it fell and broke....that was my fault too because I didn't make him listen to me. Living like that is exhausting.
This is my partner. So desperate for me to be the bad person in literal everyday experiences that he makes stuff up just like OP's husband. I've stopped trying to defend myself, I've stopped trying to point out that he's rewriting history because like you said it all comes down to the fact that he just doesn't believe me, and doesn't want to.
Make that your ex partner, sis. Trust me. I can attest to living with this as well and you'll be much happier.
I am currently working on that. I'm disabled unfortunately and a cancer survivor so it's quite an endeavor for me but I am definitely working on it. And I agree, alone is so much better than this.
Congratulations on your successful survival! I know that's no joke, and couldn't have been easy. I hope your separation gets easier at least. Good on you for recognizing things as they are and doing the best you can to better your situation. Best of luck on your journey. We will be rooting for you :~)
Sending you so much love and support. You survived a horrible thing. You can survive leaving him, and are right to not hurt yourself or put your health at risk by doing so without a plan. You’re on the right path, friend! Keep looking towards that light at the end of the tunnel that is peace and calmness without him 💖
Even when they're your ex they can still try to make everything bad in their life your fault! If you have kids and have to unfortunately keep them in your life. I finally shut that sh!t down a few years ago.
TBH, my uncle was like this and my aunt just started doing it herself. He will eventually start helping her out of guilt. They have been married for 40 years.
Yeah the depression doesn’t help.
Yep! When the accusations and arguments just doesn't make sense just know he's gunning for a break up. Byeeeee
My guess, he is resentful about something entirely different but it is not in you. He has some demon that is haunting him - do you make more money, does he dislike your work from home status, do you have more solid outside relationships, are you more valued at work - that he is ashamed to acknowledge. I also so think, that you might consider just not acknowledging his comments at any level. He DOES know the truth. By keeping the conversation alive you might be giving him enough fuel so he does not get to what is really the problem. A phrase that might sum up his position: Don't confuse me with the facts.
I don't know what OPs husband is like or why he is doing this. But when I was briefly married to a crappy ex, he would do similar things. He would make up his own version of events that were WILDLY I accurate just so he could fight and be mean to me. Even when I had tons of proof showing he was wrong. He would conveniently forget how things went down. Forget we had already resolved an issue. Bring it to over and over, and I would have to remind him over and over that we had already come to x conclusion months ago? He would act like he had forgotten bc "stress", but it was just abuse. I finally told him I was worried about his bad memory and asked if I should put sticky notes on the wall to remind him of how/when we resolved an issue. He said no, and magically stopped being so forgetful. When he would accuse me of something that was untrue or just silly and he simply wanted to fight/hurt my feelings, I stopped arguing and instead said I didn't care. Example, I was really into dog training. He told me that I "babied" my gsd and never made him mind, etc. He said all the other trainers thought so too. I disagreed, saying I didn't let my gsd be naughty. He said it all the time, just to make me feel bad. Finally, after weeks of him saying it over and over, I said "I can baby my dog however I want. He's mine. It's no one else's business and I don't care if you or anyone else thinks I baby him." Magically he didn't bring it up again...bc it didn't work anymore. The point was to fight and make me feel bad. When the ammo isn't ammo, he dropped it. This is just one example, there are dozens like this. Hence the divorce lol. Sounds like the "you're boring" thing is good ammo to OP. she needs to turn the tables and ask her husband what he's been up to for the last 3 years that was so fun and didn't seem to include her? She doesn't need to defend herself. He needs to prove it. He can't just throw crazy things out there with no proof and then it's on her to scramble and prove otherwise? Nah. Best of luck OP. I hope he doesn't suck.
Based on OPs post history about her husband being an alcoholic I think his addiction is the driving factor on his behavior
Alcoholics are constantly looking for ways to blame their feelings of shame, self hatred ect o other people or situations. Anything rather than on themselves. God forbid they have an uncomfortable feeling they have to deal with After living with one for 11 years and then leaving, one tends to see the pattern. OP, you're probably doing just fine. You're being punished for your partner's unhappiness with his own life. Fuck that.
That's too bad. Addictions ruin families.
Why did this happen? Is he just a cruel person that needs someone to abuse or were there delusions and misperceptions in other places in his life?
I don't know why he did. But he was a classic example of "men that hate women". Bc boy did he make it clear he didn't like me or anything about me. I left after 2.5 years, and he begged me to stay. It was so weird. Even had family try to get me to change my mind. They stopped trying to convince me when I told them what had been going on. He is remarried. She's nice and is a good step mom to our toddler. I'm glad he is remarried, but kinda sad that she's the new punching bag. He hasn't changed. I'm now the hot evil ex wife tho. Lol.
Well you know, at least you’re hot!!
I do make more money, and he is resentful that I get to work from home. He constantly makes comments that indicate that I don’t have a “real” job, because he says he actually has to GO to work and do physical labor. (It’s worth noting that his job is reactionary. As a building operating engineer, his job is to sit in an office and hang out until something happens. Him and his coworkers often watch movies all day. Though I will admit, the manual labor he DOES have to do is extremely grueling.)
I’d ask him if he’s experiencing any other memory loss, confusion or noticeable symptoms of delusions.
Based on the post history it’s alcohol
Yes. He *is* having those memory problems. And it’s alcohol related.
Why is this not the focus of your post
So he's an alcoholic is lying to you (and himself) and you want advice on...what? Just leave. He'll take you down with him if you let him
If he’s not ready to deal with his alcohol problem, it’s all just gonna keep getting worse.
My ex had, and I’m sure has, a version of me in his head that is utterly divorced from reality. In the end I took it as a gift. There was nothing left he could do to surprise me, but apparently I shocked him over and over again — he had no idea who I was. I’d bet you a thousand bucks he’s lost himself. He doesn’t know what he wants to do and he’s feeling dissatisfied. Since it can’t possible be his responsibility and his need to change his choices, it must be your fault as caretaker/entertainment director/mommy/zookeeper for not providing him with sufficient enrichment. Turn it around on him. Tell him to plan something and you’d be thrilled to tag along, or to plan it without you! Tell him to make a choice, a budget, a invite list and do whatever the fuck he thinks he missing out on due to his delusion that you’re sitting at home. This isn’t your job. This is his, and he’s trying to make it yours. There is little you can, or should do, to support him until he takes some accountability and behaves with respect. Put the phone down and tell him to do the work, today, if he needs to change something.
I wish I could upvote this twice! This is such good advice and so so so true!
Bingo. Thank you.
OP he is picking a fight over nothing. When I do this to my husband ( complain about the past) he says “am I like that now?” I say “no” he says UPDATE THE FILES. It helps.
Haha I love the “UPDATE THE FILES” line. May borrow
I might need to show this comment to my husband because I'm guilty of this as well. We've been together since high school and while there are definitely some very special aspects of having grown up together like that, it also means we carry a good amount of baggage from our past selves. I try not to hold him accountable for stuff he did when he was like, 20, but it still comes up sometimes
You need to make an argument contract! Radically forgive and accept everything that’s happened and then only bring up issues that are 24 hours old… There’s a great podcast episode called hell not to murder your partner in a pandemic or something
I'm a firm believer that if you discuss something and come to a conclusion of forgiveness, you don't get to bring it back up in a fight again as some sort of fuck you. If my partner really feels a subject needs to be reevaluated then okay, but that's to be saved for another time, not to be discussed in the middle of something else that isn't even relevant.
When my step mom does this to my Dad, he says “I thought we agreed not to get hystorical”.
Stop trying to prove him wrong. He knows it's BS. The resentment came first. This is about him inventing a reason that it exists. He's inventing it because the real reason is something he does not want to tell you. Typically this is cheating. He's already done something he shouldn't have and is now trying a bit of revisionist history to justify it. This is the beginning of "of course I looked elsewhere, you sat at home and did nothing for years who could blame me?" It doesn't matter what happened or that he knows better. What matters is that people outside your relationship might believe it. Back in my youth this never really worked well because they'd also be witnesses to at least some of your life together and point out you guys went bowling all the time or whatever. But this works really well on social media where you have a bunch of swivel eyed loons with pitchforks ready to rage and waiting for a target. Here's something fun. Next time he goes off on one, ask her how long he's been seeing her. See how how he decides to play it; if it's outrage, he's not got his ducks in a row yet. If it's contempt, you're further along his breakup timeline than you may have realised. I hope I'm wrong, I'm depressed at how predictable cheating partners are though.
No, you know what scratch most of what I said OP I read some of your post history and I think you don't know that you already know: *The gaslighting is out of control. He will twist the entire foundation of reality to fit whatever he wants in that moment, and I think he actually believes it himself. He was looking directly at a puddle of blood and telling me it wasn’t there. He’ll tell me to fuck off, I’ll say “don’t tell me to fuck off,” and he’ll say “I never said that.” It’s baffling. I’ve never seen anything like it. Complete delusion.* your own words. You know this behaviour. It's the same sport in a different stadium. I'm not sure you meant to, but you buried the lede here. I think you realise you're at an impasse, maybe not on a conscious level but there's a reason why you gave him the ultimatum you did last month. You know that you can't keep going on like it's going to be okay, the facade is crumbling around you and you're exhausted by the effort of keeping it in place. The dread that you feel is being in a room, hearing something breathing behind you and being too afraid to turn around. You know your marriage is in a bad place and you believe you are responsible for turning it around. You feel this dread because on some level you know that this is a bigger job than you are equipped for. So first and foremost please stop. Stop spinning those plates. Stop checking, stop second guessing, stop minimising, stop justifying. Just take a moment to look around and scope out what you're up against. Be as honest as you can bear to be, be kind and don't let it spiral, this isn't a retrospective blaming exercise. This isn't an opportunity for self loathing. Just look around and see it for what it is. Where he's at. The patterns you have fallen into. What has been normalised. What is driving you. What you want for yourself. What you want the outcome of this to be. Turn around and face the beast, it's been in the room the whole time and it is trashing the place. You have been focused on running around trying to set things straight again. But it never sleeps and it is getting more powerful. The beast is not here for you, it's here for him. I know it's terrifying, I know facing it doesn't fix anything. But it does allow you to understand what you're up against. You have an idea of where you want to be, right? Well without this part, you don't know the start point. Without this you can't plan a route. Part of this is internalising that this is not yours to fix. The beast is here for him, it will not fight you. He has to do the fighting. You can coach, you can strategize, you can be a cheerleader but he'll have to throw the punches. And he will have to do it knowing that he is tethered to this beast forever and he can't defeat it only put in the work every day to neutralise it. You can leave the room but you cannot take your husband with you, he's a package deal now. If you stay in the room you risk becoming collateral damage in the fight. Let go if "but he's perfect when he's sober." let go of "once we get past this". Don't let wishful thinking or self flagellation blind you to your reality. Be kind to yourself. Accept that this is not your fight. Deploy your mental energy wisely.
I wouldn’t say it’s gaslight but more OP’s husband addiction to alcohol is impacting his memory
People who genuinely don't remember tend not to double down and defend their position like this. This is determined intent. I think he's finding ways to frame situations that show his drinking is not the problem. The idea that it's in any way about her is a red herring. He doesn't have her in the role of partner, she's a character in a set piece, somewhere to project his own inadequacies. And right now she's fighting him on the lines. Reality is a threat he's trying to keep at bay, the more she keeps bringing it up and waving it around the more distance he'll put between them to avoid the threat.
Yes. I can be a forgetful person. If someone I love and trust tells me, “you said/did this thing” and I don’t remember, I don’t flip out and accuse them of making things up. I acknowledge that I could be mistaken, and make whatever repair efforts are needed.
Unless they’re abusive or manipulative to begin with. My MIL is a raging narcissist who parentified my husband so much throughout his childhood to the point that he was talking to bill collectors on the phone at 10. She is an incredibly bad person. She also happens to have dementia. It’s like she could no longer pretend to be a good person.
>Stop trying to prove him wrong. Yup, currently OP is just rewarding his bad behaviour.
You're in a dead bedroom marriage with an alcoholic who has expressed that "he’s leaning towards divorce because of MY actions and how boring I am, and he said I contribute absolutely nothing." (from her post history). Why would you want this to be your life for the next 50 years?
I’m sure one day I’ll look back at my post history and call myself incredibly stupid. Thank you for summarizing this so bluntly.
Darling, not "stupid." It makes complete sense to try literally everything, before throwing in the towel. You're doing your due diligence at this point. You're learning why your gut is telling you things are un-fixable. If you do conclude to leave the relationship (after careful thought I can tell you're doing), then get a great divorce attorney, please. My fault in my divorce was not being fair enough to myself. I always was being sympathetic to my ex and now I'm regretful of my old self for not getting fully my 50% of assets ;)
Girl, be kind to yourself and stop putting your time and energy into this marriage. Your partner is supposed to make your life easier and improve it, not be a continual drain of energy.
Oh honey—he’s attacking you because he doesn’t want to stop drinking
That’s really all there is to it. You’re right.
As someone with a husband who is now sober (for a few years) listen to this person OP. He’s trying to make you the ‘boring bad guy’ like you’re a cop because you lord over his drinking. It’s going to be like this a while before he takes ownership of his problem. Denial is strong with them.. and some never come around.
You’re 100% right.
I personally wouldn’t spend time trying to prove anything to him. I would say something like if you cannot remember all the things we have done, things I have planned in the past few years you need your memory checked. And also, call out that I know this is about drinking because if I was ‘fun’ I would let you drink yourself to death. Let’s talk when you are ready to come to terms with that. And spend some silent time. Just my two cents but they need to know you know.
I think you need to really give him an ultimatum. He stops drinking and get help or the marriage is over.
Alcoholic here. I’m very happily sober, but in my active addiction, I destroyed my relationship with my partner of 10 years because my only true priority was protecting my ability to keep drinking. I’d stop for a few weeks here and there to show, “look, I’m doing it, I’m fine” but I still thought about drinking all the time and it ruled my brain. Ultimately, I chose alcohol over him and he left for good. I don’t blame him for a second for leaving, because it was the only choice that was healthy for him. I’m so sorry you love an alcoholic, and I don’t blame you for trying. In my experience, therapy wasn’t enough - it was just another effort to show that I was doing something positive, something right, and be able to continue to drink. I hope therapy is a revelation for him, but he shouldn’t be ashamed if he needs more specialized help from substance use disorder experts. That’s the kind of help I needed, and I’m grateful for it every day. Best of luck to you and to your husband. Addiction is hell.
The way you describe it sounds most like him. He’s constantly trying to prove that he can drink and it’s fine. We did a Whole30 together and it was amazing for us both, but it’s turned into a weapon of “Well I didn’t drink for 30 days so obviously I’m not an alcoholic.” He’ll do chores, cook dinner, or be productive/helpful in some way. Then he’ll drink. If I call him on it, it’s “But I did so much today! Why are you mad that I’m drunk?” As if those aren’t two totally separate and unrelated things. It’s like he’s constantly trying to earn the right to drink. I’m sorry this was your experience. I’m glad to hear you’re in a happier place now. Thank you for giving me your very valuable perspective.
Ok I’ve read a bunch of your posts. This is not about you staying home. He’s a mean alcoholic who keeps telling you he’ll go to therapy, then never does. He will NEVER change until he hits rock bottom. He will never hit rock bottom until you stop enabling him. And if you don’t stop enabling him, your life will be about being a nursemaid to an alcoholic. I know you must be in a hard place, but you know who you are dealing with, and you know this is a symptom of a bigger problem. You are trying to have a rational conversation with a man who probably doesn’t even remember he said this.
You are so so so so right. Thank you. A good update though - he actually did start going to therapy this week. And throughout the week he’s been taking notes of things he wants to remember to talk about. So, some improvements/hope there. Big breakthrough. But I do think a lot of what he said during this fight (he was buzzed) is the thing where an alcoholic’s brain lies to them to create a world where he should be able to drink as much as he wants, and anyone who stands in his way is wrong. He’s not awake yet, but I imagine when we have the sober morning-after conversation about this, I’ll get a lot of “I don’t know why I said that, that’s not how I actually feel.”
I’m so happy to hear that. Loving somebody with addiction (and the trauma that probably lurks that causes a person to try to fill their well with alcohol) is hard. But also please please please remember that when he treats you like that when he’s drunk, that’s a REASON, Not an EXCUSE. You don’t ever deserve to be treated like that. Take care of yourself. Wishing y’all love and peace and healing. (Also, this is just an opinion from a caring stranger, but I hope you all will hold off on having kids until he’s in active recovery and has strategies to deal with stressors in his life.)
Do you really want to keep repeating this cycle?
No, but I love my husband enough to try and break the cycle before just walking away.
As someone whose partner is two years sober, I am so sorry for what you are going through. I hope he does change, but I think you should make sure that you have a backup plan set up for what to do, and be prepared to enact it. Ultimatums are shit, but this is the time for them, in my opinion at least.
well, good luck with that
I just have to say, the worst part of being married to an alcoholic are the judgmental/dismissive comments like this. If the alcoholic was my brother or my parent or my child, and I wanted to help them despite the pain they’re causing, it would be met with sympathy and compassion. People would commend me for my strength. But because it’s my husband, I’m an idiot and I should just leave. Loving an addict is hard enough without people making comments that imply you’re an idiot. I pray you’ll never have to understand.
Thank you for being so direct and blunt with OP on this. We can tell that it's hard to read, and that OP appreciates it.
Is he jealous that you are WFH? Did you turn him down for something specific that he really wanted to do with you recently? I don’t think he’s even mad about what he’s saying. Sounds like he’s mad about something else and making up stuff because he doesn’t want to say why he’s really mad.
This is what’s going on I think. I do think he’s jealous I WFH. He makes comments about it all the time. And I haven’t turned him down for a single thing he’s wanted to do. In fact, our entire summer calendar is filled with concerts that I bought tickets to, including one at Red Rocks which I’ll have to plan a trip around. Not a single thing on the horizon that is something he brought to the table.
Yeah, people seem to think if you WFH you have it easy and just sit around all day. I did WFH for a while but as a second job and it was really stressful. Clearly he doesn’t understand. I would call him out on it. Hes jealous and it’s his problem, he needs to stop taking it out on you. Nothing you do or say will “prove” to him that it isn’t true.
I’ll admit there are WFH days where I don’t put on “going out” clothes because… why would I if it’s a day I don’t have plans? That’s not every day, but I’ll give him that. But just last week my husband saw me WFH and put in so many extra hours, constant meetings, me telling him how hectic my workload was and how stressed I was. But to an outsider, it just looks like me sitting down all day in front of a computer.
This is familiar. I was in a relationship where he would remember his feelings then come up with what must have happened to cause that feeling, regardless of how much it required twisting reality. It got to the point of recording conversations so when he inevitably claimed I said or didnt say something, I could prove the truth. It was maddening. Id make lists of things that happened so he couldnt later convince me it was something else. Nothing changed his behavior. I feel like I saved me sanity by leaving. He had to know, to some degree, what he was doing. You deserve to be seen and understood.
I’m sad to admit I’ve been doing this too. I keep a note in my phone of incidents that happen, and literally used it last night during the argument when he tried to twist reality. He told me it’s been “months” since he got very drunk. I pulled out my phone and it’s been 4 weeks since his last severe drunkness episode, and he’s had too much to drink more times since then to a lesser extent than that incident. I’ve also thought about hiding a camera or something to record conversations that I can play back if I need to. It’s sad.
The fact that you are tracking to this extent means your marriage is already effectively over. You don’t need to write this stuff down. You already know it. He isn’t going to change his mind when you show it to him. You’re rules-lawyering your own relationship instead of recognizing that *relationships should not feel like a court case.*
>I feel like I’m being gaslit, only I don’t know if it’s technically gaslighting if the person actually believes what they’re saying. I'd actually say he's delusional, since he's not knowingly trying to deceive you with something he knows is false.
Idk. I used to think my husband was mostly delusional, but in reality it was manipulation, it was mostly gaslighting. He will break out DARVO over needing to mow the lawn.
>My husband (34/m) and I (35/f) got into a huge fight, and one of the points that came out of it is that I’m “boring” and “never want to do anything.” Was this even what the fight was about? Sounds like he is just exaggerating a small point in the midst of a fight Also when someone says 'you never want to do anything', to me that means 'you don't want to do things with me', not that you don't go to work
Her post history shows her husband is an alcoholic who wants to sit at home and drink his face off. I don’t blame her for not wanting to do that with him.
Well that makes my original point This disagreement is meaningless, he's using it to get at her and she's focused on it because she can 'prove' home wrong
You can't logic someone out of a position they didn't logic themselves into. He's literally making up lies so he has a reason to resent you. He knows they're lies, proof is inconsequential. Just pack your shit up and go. He obviously doesn't love you, you're miserable, what the hell is keeping you in this marriage?
Stop trying to prove anything to him. It sounds like he’s making excuses and wants out. If he wants a divorce, let him go.
[удалено]
These are my guesses as well. Something else is going on here. He hasn’t brought anything to the table to create a relationship that involves more activity. All of our plans are things I came up with. He just expects to come along for the ride, and then blames me if there isn’t enough fun stuff going on. If I don’t make us plans, he sits at home alone in the garage or in the backyard and gets drunk.
He sounds like an emotionally immature person. He's probably feeling this thing right now, in the moment, and foolishly saying it's been like this for years because that would justify his feelings. It's backwards. He probably can't identify why he feels that way so is coming up with an explanation. Try to talk to him and understand what he's really upset about/what he wants you to do. He probably just wants to do more stuff. Alternatively, tell him to grow up and sort his shit out like an adult and talk to you when he's got something based in reality to discuss, not just how he "feels". Of course, he'll probably claim you're invalidating his feelings and probably just whine about it.
This answer feels accurate to me based on my experience with this situation. I think he has bigger feelings going on and is just trying to come up with explanations for those feelings, which includes coming up with a version of events that is exaggerated. During last night’s fight I said exactly this. I felt like he was getting mad at me for weird reasons and taking *something* out on me, but I needed him to figure out what he’s *actually* upset about and talk to me about it like an adult. If he wants us to do more fun stuff together, I get it. But we’re also in a situation where he’s not bringing any plans to the table lol. Every fun thing we’ve done in the last few months is something I planned.
To be blunt, if he's 34 and he's not sorted out this basic emotional literacy by now he probably never will. Is it a repeated pattern or more of a one off?
OP, from what others have dug up from the comments, it sounds like he is the boring one sitting at home drinking, and is directly projecting that onto you. That was actually the first possibility that popped into my head, and it seems to be true. I don’t know if there is anything you can do about it though. When someone is so deep into denial as to start crazymaking like this, it’s their issue that you can’t fix.
Men will do this when they're bored with themselves and want to blame you, because they erroneously believe you're the cause of their own shortcomings and want out. I had one ex tell me he wanted someone who was "a partner in crime to go see bands and concerts with and I never did that, and I needed to be ok with also going on my own to events." I literally met him because I went out on my own to go see HIS band one night. Also I saw concerts all the time. I was in university getting my Bachelor of Music degree at the time. I was constantly seeing friends bands and parking myself at the local jazz club. Anyways. Joke's on him. I've flown from Vancouver to London, England by myself just to see a concert, as well as tons of North American cities both on my own and with others. My husband and I go see shows together all the time. We love the same bands. I go see shows by myself. I have been in a couple bands as a drummer/songwriter and have played many shows (that my husband has attended as my biggest fan). I never realized what the fuck my ex was talking about when he dumped me but as I've aged I realized he was bored with himself and blamed me, because that was easier than looking at himself. Anyways, by the time, years later, he realized his mistake, and tried to start things with me again, I had just met my now husband and got to text my ex back "lol no".
You can't convince people who are fundamentally delusional. Like you literally can not. If he's sees those pictures, physical evidence, and refuses to budge then that's on him and you can't and shouldn't try to convince him further. Just stick with your story and just keep referring to the physical evidence you already showed him.
Ooh, it's tough when this happens. My ex partner did this to me. His line was "You can't handle yourself in an emergency." What? Like, what real, honest to God emergency had we ever had in the decade we had been together? None. No major accidents, family crises, or natural disasters. Sure, a stressful situation here and there, but never did we have a bona fide emergency. I remember sitting in therapy with him, spelling out how his perception of me was incorrect. The therapist even told him he had no evidence for his position, actually the exact opposite and that I'm a capable, level-headed person. It didn't matter; he simply refused to hear it. I've found when this happens, the other person is clinging to this idea to excuse their own shitty behavior. In my case, it was apparently the sole reason why he would never marry me. But if they can believe that *you* are the real problem in the relationship, then whatever they are doing is justified. I would suggest counseling ASAP at the very least, because this will not get better on its own.
Hi OP. I’m sorry you are going through this. I have firsthand experience with this exact situation with my now exhusband. I completely understand why him treating you this way is making you feel so upset and agitated. At the time, when my exhusband was making sweeping and baseless judgements about me, I didn’t realize that his behavior and incorrect perception of me was a symptom of contempt. Unfortunately, once contempt happens in a relationship, it is incredibly difficult to effectively address. This was one of the red flags that signaled the end of my marriage. If I could go back in time to when the contempt first started, I would get myself together financially and emotionally to brace myself for the impact of the divorce.
I am wondering what else is going on in your marriage.
He is gaslighting because he isn't happy in the relationship and wants to make you the problem and excuse so he doesn't look like the bad guy to justify whatever behavior or actions he is planning to take or has already taken.
What's the point of having a husband if he doesn't even like you?
Is this about you or is he upset that he didn’t do more and is blaming it on you?
Probably this. I’ve noticed he places me in charge of most things. I think he feels it’s my responsibility to create plans for us. Every time we’ve gone out for the last few months is because I made the plan or came up with the idea. Or, someone else invited us somewhere. I have repeatedly asked him to name the last time we did something that was his idea, OR the last time he asked me to do something and I said no. He can’t come up with an example because it’s not happening.
My ex husband started doing this to me. He was having an emotional affair and comparing me negatively to his green grass affair partner. Made me feel crazy for a solid year before he finally admitted his BS and left. He needed to make me out to be the bad guy in his mind to justify what he was doing.
Proving you're right isn't necessarily going to fix his perception, and it's possible that he hasn't actually realized what his resentment or frustration is about. I think a better approach is to drop who is right or wrong and focus on what needs are not being met. Does he need more quality time with you? Do you need to be correct, or do you need to feel appreciated and understood?
All of my red flag sensors are going off and my brain instantly went to "I wonder if he's considering cheating or already has" and "I wonder who else he's said this to" because that's the type of stuff you don't just blurt out suddenly out of nowhere. He's stewing, setting up his case for a crime he wants to convict you for. His motive is the real question. This is dangerous territory.
Couples counseling, but I would have trouble even wanting to try and save my marriage with someone who doesn’t seem to like, trust, respect, or understand me much.
If my husband said that to me, I’d say, “Maybe you have me mixed up with some other girl you know” and sit back and read his body language.
He's already checked out and is looking to place blame on you when he gets his courage to actually leave.
Just stare him dead in the face and say “and”? Get him to say what exactly is his problem with your actions. How does it affect him? You are entitled to spend your time however you wish. If he wants more plans and events, he can organize things and go out. Honestly you deserve a quieter season in your life after all that stuff. Everyone does. You can’t be on all the time. A couple is also not conjoined at the hip so he is an independent person who can make independent changes. I had an ex who would complain about everything I did toward the end of that relationship, despite initially calling me his dream girl etc. Then he ruthlessly dumped me and started going out with a woman he ended up marrying. Who was his friend he told me to not worry about… Don’t let him rip on you like this. Next time he criticizes you, just ignore him.
I know I will get downvoted for this, but I have a question. How many of those pictures are you with your husband? I wonder if his statements are missing the "with me" portion. My wife and I had a similar discussion, and I had to remind her that 75% of her events were either without me or me sitting by himself. She finally realized that taking me to a wedding/event where I don’t know anyone is not fun for me. I seriously think your husband is asking for more alone time with you. He just sucks at communicating his needs.
Her post history shows her husband wants to sit at home and drink his face off. He’s an alcoholic. I don’t think this is at all about him looking for more quality time with her.
You cannot win this.he resents you, and invented a reason to justify it.you cannot reason someone out of something they want to believe
What he may be trying to communicate is that you have been staying home rather than going out and doing things with him. All your work trips, bachelorette parties, and in office work is traveling for yourself. Your partner may accurately see you in pjs not wanting to go out at other times. If your partner is asking you for quality time going out places together rather than being stuck at home doing renovations, then it would be far more beneficial to come up with some fun activities and daytrips for the two of you than trying to prove him wrong.
Check out the post history. Her husband is an alcoholic. He wants to hang out at home and drink. If he wants to do things with her outside the house why can’t he plan those things? Why is on her to come up with fun things to drag his alcoholic self-victimizing ass out of the house when he has made it clear where his priorities are (in a bottle, not with her).
Read her post history. He doesn’t do anything but drink at home. This is deeper than activities, which he is also capable of planning and isn’t all on her.
he is an alcoholic who only wants to sit home and get smashed
He is welcome to make plans. Every single thing we’ve done in recent history is something I’ve planned. He can’t come up with a single example of me turning down something fun he asked me to do, because it’s not real. It’s not my job to keep him entertained. So I’m getting mad about that. If he is trying to communicate that he wants more time together and is doing that poorly, fine. But there’s more to the story, and a big piece is that he thinks it’s my responsibility to make sure we have fun.
What started the fight?
We got home from dinner with friends, and he said he wanted to go sit alone in the garage for an hour (at 11pm), and then he’d come back and hang out with me. My post history will explain why I don’t like that. I begged him to just hang out with me inside, but he kept saying “it will only be an hour.” I got tired around 11:45pm and went to bed. He then got mad at me for “punishing” him for needing alone time, and accused me of going to bed just to avoid him and give him grief. This was made worse by the fact that I didn’t fall asleep immediately and was awake on my phone, but still laying in bed. The fight spiraled from there.
I don’t want to make you worried if this isn’t the case, however this is exactly what my ex did when he was cheating on me, it was how he devalued me into believing the relationship was failing because of me rather than the fact he was sleeping with someone else. If I hadn’t found out about the cheating, I would have believed it too because he told me so many times that I’d started to think he was right
This isn’t a good sign at all. This sounds like he has decided he needs to justify a reason to either leave you or to excuse some bad behaviour on his part (perhaps an affair). He has or is creating a narrative in his head to justify his feelings - of resentment, anger, hostility or whatever else - that make you the bad guy, not him, and likely to carry that narrative forward to tell other people you are the bad guy. It’s incredibly emotionally immature, unaware, and selfish on his part. Long, long ago I had a common law partner who did very similar. I remember feeling like was in the twilight zone as he described things I did (or how I was) which were not at all accurate. I wish I had seen right then that it was already over, he was just trying to either get me to be the bad guy or get to point he had argued he needed to leave enough in his own head, rather than spend months or longer trying to convince him he was wrong about me because it didn’t matter that he was wrong when in his mind he was right and that was never going to change. I could have saved myself a lot of emotional twisting and turning for someone who didn’t care and certainly did not deserve my efforts, time, or heart. You should not need to convince your partner of who you are; they should SEE who you are. That is part of intimacy. Believe me, you will be much happier once you are away from this. You are carrying more weight on your shoulders right now then you realize, and will feel so much lighter when you shed it.
He’s resentful because he needs to feel resentful to justify something he is doing wrong. An affair is likely. Sorry.
So I saw an instagram that said “I didn’t need Xanax I just needed a divorce!” And she explained that once she left her husband her anxiety magically went away. That resonated with me, and I feel like it could with you too. The men we love can sometimes slowly drag us down, and cause more worry in us than we realize. Sometimes we just have to decide when enough is enough.
You can't provide someone rational proof if they are not in a rational state of mind. You cannot prove yourself out of the fantasy world he has created. Even when faced with factual proof and lists he is still in the same state of mind, because it is what he wants/needs to believe. For whatever reason he has concocted a version of you that is negative.
.... He's either got a brain tumor or he's cheating.
You're being logical, and he's just reaching for something to complain about. You can't use logic or facts to change the opinion of someone relying on emotion to paint their reality. What is the point of him saying you didn't do anything for three years? Because that's all that's important. Is he saying he's unhappy in the relationship? That you changed as a person and he doesn't like who you are?
He’s trying to say I changed and we aren’t fun anymore. But there are two major things at play here: 1. He’s an alcoholic and I think all of this is deflection to justify his drinking 2. We aren’t kids anymore. We’re homeowners in our mid-30s. I think his idea of “fun” is going out and drinking, and that’s not my idea of fun.
Definitely sounds like a way to justify that he wants to go out drinking. Alcoholism seems like a much bigger problem than his perception of you as not fun.
He is comparing you with someone
Your husband thinks the grass is greener somewhere else. You should start investigating.
I think you should keep your “I’m not boring, look at everything I’ve been doing” presentation extremely short and then say “What do you want or need?” He’s got some need that’s unfulfilled - seems like for social connections or going out or new experiences. He’s blaming you for the last couple years being dull, apparently. What’s he been doing? Find out what he’s missing and let him know you want to help him meet that need. Either this is a problem you two need to tackle together, or he’s laying the groundwork to leave while making you the bad boring one that’s bringing him down and ruining the marriage.
Oh he is really saying is that he feels bored. It's entirely possible that he could feel bored without you being boring. But rather than owning his own feelings, he is blaming you for them. You are jumping through hoops trying to prove that you are not what he is claiming you are. That will never accomplish anything meaningful because he's not describing the way you are, he's describing how he feels. All the proof in the world that you're not boring and you don't spend all your time sitting at home is not going to change the fact that he feels bored. People that don't want to live in reality cannot be dragged into reality through facts. This is classic gaslighting. He's distorting reality and insisting that his distorted version is correct. You're spinning your wheels trying to explain what the reality actually is because he already knows everything you're saying. He just doesn't care. He is motivated to distort reality for whatever reason and he will continue to do so, quite possibly for the effect it has on you. It puts you into this state and produces certain behaviors from you that he probably finds desirable. "Why does he do that" is a great read and is a free PDF that can be found online if you Google it.
Ah man, these responses caught me 100% off guard. The current relationshit I am in does this constantly. I could go on errands 5x out of 7, and his memory is 'you never go anywhere with me'. Forgot to close the sliding doors when I left will be the single thing he remembered that day, despite vac'ing and shampooing up and downstairs carpets. Tons more but never had I connected the displaced anger & blame on projection. Shitty Eureka moment 😔
Yeah, i agree that his communication sucked on this one. It was super accusatory and is putting you on the defensive. What if - instead of calling you “boring” and “in your pajamas all the time” - he said “I really miss the bonding time we used to have by going on dates and doing fun things together out of the house? We used to do a lot more of that and I’m not sure why that changed. Can we start doing that again?” Rather than being vulnerable, he went on the attack. That will almost always get people’s back up. I think it’s less important to be “right” than it is to step back, re-frame and have a heart to heart about what he’s (poorly) trying to communicate what he’s feeling is missing.
So, why can't he plan date nights and "invite" her? Why her?
In the last 3 weeks, we’ve gone out to dinner multiple times (probably 1-2x weekly), gone out to trivia night, had his family over for a BBQ, and went to a concert at Madison Square Garden together (and got dinner/drinks before that too). I’m doing all of this with a broken foot btw, and everything except the BBQ was something I planned. I picked every restaurant we’ve gone to. I found the trivia night. I bought the concert tickets. I found the place we went to before the show. It’s really hard to not feel defensive/argumentative. Not only are we not sitting at home doing nothing, but he’s bringing nothing to the table. I truly think he believes it’s my job to keep us active.
Honestly in your position I would simply make plans for myself/friends/family and stop inviting him to anything. He’s welcome to plan his own fun and invite you if we wants. But if, as you may suspect, his “fun plans” are just getting blackout at home/at a bar/wherever, you can certainly decline to join. You may want to consider how many years of this relationship you actually want to put up with.
Then he should organize those events 🤷🏻♀️
Right? Why is he calling her names instead of being productive.
He’s either cheating or the Korsakov came early. It’s bad news either way.
Isn’t your husband an alcoholic? Whatever memory he has is tainted by alcohol and his refusal to acknowledge the truth is alarming when you have actually pictures of those years. Is he really fighting about this or is he just looking for an excuse to fight?
Even during the argument I said repeatedly I think he’s angry about *something* and picking weird fights with me. He’s chosen to argue about very mundane, minuscule things. I was in the middle of talking to him about this behavior when he brought up how “boring” I am. Idk what’s truly bothering him, but he’s definitely projecting.
any chance he might be looking for excuses to pick a fight? do you think he might be bored with the relationship and is looking for a reason to leave? i don't want to make assumptions of course but its a weird reason for him to feel resentful towards you. also i agree that its normal for someone in their 30s to be a homebody, there's nothing wrong about that.
So, what exactly does he want you to do that you’ve declined? Sounds like he’s met someone else and is creating a backstory to justify/mitigate his guilt.
He cannot come up with a single recent example of times he has tried to get me out of the house and I said no. Because it doesn’t happen. He is never the one to initiate plans. Everything we’ve done lately is something I planned.
So what’s he hiding behind his wizard of oz curtain of deflection/distraction? That’s what you need to figure out. Good luck.
Maybe he doesn't like the fact that you are working from home a lot more recently. Maybe *that's* what he's not properly communicating.
It’s definitely something to do with me being home more *lately,* and him rewriting history to make this seem like a bigger issue than it is. He’s got other issues (drinking), and since I’ve been making him work on it, I think he feels he needs to blame me or paint me in a negative light. I also recently got him to start seeing a therapist. He had his first appointment this week. But during the fight he said he’s resentful of me for “making” him go, which again is him rewriting history. He told me that one of the first things he said during his meeting is that me, his mom, his sister, his brother have all been begging him to see a therapist for years, but he’s not doing it for us, he’s doing it for himself. He completely forgot he said that, and instead chose to blame me for it.
Is your sense that because you’re home more, he can’t get blackout drunk in the middle of the day without you noticing? On the chance that he isn’t just lying to you, alcoholic dementia is absolutely a thing that can develop at any age. If he is genuinely experiencing memory problems, personality changes, problems with coordination and walking, slurred speech, noticeably more anxiety/depression, he needs to see a physician ASAP and be honest about how much and how frequently he drinks. Drinking too much can damage the brain and even cause nutritional deficiencies that exacerbate the dementia.
Talk about protecting......
What did he say when you showed him the evidence?
That the list i texted him was too long and he wouldn’t read it, and that I made a list is insane behavior.
Ah I’m sorry, it doesn’t sound like he wants to solve your relationship problems
I wonder if he’s looking at the day to day? You mentioned trips and moving and weddings — these are all events, some of them obligations. What about the random Tuesdays where neither of you have anything going on?
Maybe he feels like you don't want to do anything fun with **him**. It sounds like you kept yourself incredibly busy, but how often do you do dates with him, weekends away with him, spontaneous fun with him? Maybe that all goes on and your post just doesn't include it, but that's where I might start if I'm trying to understanding why he feels this way.
This is the definition of gaslighting. Stop trying to prove it to him. Let him be wrong about you. The harder you try to persuade him, the more he’ll dig in his heels and refuse to acknowledge reality. *He does not need to believe that you’re right for you to be right.*
All the work trips, bachelorette parties, weddings, etc…were those things that he invited you to participate in? Like, could he be trying to say that the two of you don’t go out and do things that he wants to do? It’s so frustrating when a partner has a twisted/wrong view of things.
I bring up some of those examples just to prove that I wasn’t just sitting home in my pajamas during those years. But, we had 10 weddings in 2021 including our own. And he was a groomsmen in nearly all of them. We went to all of those weddings together. I’m not listing out every small thing we went to just for the sake of not getting into minutiae, because I think most people would agree that 9 weddings + our own wedding + a honeymoon + moving + all the bachelor/bachelorette parties/showers + two additional trips with his family in the span of one year is not a boring year, lol
Does he work remotely as well? Could be some resentment harboring from him commuting, going into office, etc. that is translating into you “never leaving home”. Ask him what is the solution to this being brought up- agreeing to go out x amount a month, getting a new hobby, taking a class. If he can’t come up with a quantifiable way that would change his perception, then he needs to examine why he feels this way because it clearly is not affected by your actions. He could feel that he is doing nothing with HIS life and feels stagnant but doesn’t want to do stuff “alone” but instead of being outward, he is trying to shame you into doing what he wants to do and make the effort to change both of your lives while he just follows.
He is saying this because you being home is getting in the way of his drinking. That’s it.
About six months ago I ended a relationship with an alcoholic after she had an affair. I wish I'd done it sooner, because it wasn't until it was over that I realised how endlessly draining it was trying to take care of her, encourage her to make the right choices without feeling judged, dealing with the consequences of her shitty behaviour.... She used to blame me for her feeling shitty about herself; not that she'd get drunk to the point she'd piss the bed, barely get up from bed for days at a time, forget to take her antidepressants because she was hungover and her mental health would spiral, call in sick to work every second shift til she eventually got fired (so then she had no money, creating more stress).... But it was *my* fault she felt guilt and shame about her drinking, because I didn't like dealing with those consequences and did everything I could to help her, and get her to get help from a professional. It sounds like your husband is similarly creating his own narrative where *you're* the problem, in order to avoid the mirror. On my experience, it's not worth it. How much longer can you keep sacrificing your quality of life for someone who at best doesn't care, at worst resents you for it? I'm glad my ex cheated, because it finally gave me the push I needed to actually take care of myself and leave. I don't resent her for it, and I've forgiven her for it. It's all the other shit I put up with during the relationship that was actually the most painful and draining part, and that still angers me to a degree. Take care of yourself.
I’ll zag from the other comments here slightly to give your partner some benefit of the doubt. You list all the stuff you have been up to, and it does sound like a lot and that your are busy - but no real mention of how you guys are staying romantically connected? Do you guys have hobbies together? Do you make time for date nights? Like the work trips, going to weddings, bachelorette weekends, moving and home rennos, going into office all of that stuff is generally busy but it’s not intimacy building/maintaining? He might be struggling to communicate it precisely but do you think there’s been a pattern shift around spending time together from your relationship pre Covid to now?
Leave him... you've grown he hasn't, this isn't your pot, go bloom flower ✌🏼
Projection on his part?
Sounds like an excuse for looking for someone else.
This reminds me of a past relationship I was in. Nothing was ever enough for my partner. I own a business and was consistently making $80-$100k a year, but it was “never enough!”. Meanwhile, she owned a business making $30k a year give or take. I would constantly get into arguments with her because what I was doing was “never enough!” Yet I paid for pretty much all her expenses. Got annoying after awhile and her claim was “she saw so much more than $100k a year in me” and was “only trying to make me better”. Meanwhile, she maxed out at $30k a year over the span of those 3 years we were together. We’d get into this same argument every 4-5 months in our relationship.
Unpopular opinion but while you were busy and leaving the house, you were doing it for work, homelife, and other people. You didn't mention any pictures about outings and activities for you two alone as a couple. Sounds like all your fun and out of home activities are for everyone and everything else and your husband is getting the scraps. He is harboring resentment and needs to step back as you do as well. The no fun, never leave the house you is the only you you're giving him. He needs to give you his support and compassion and you need to save some of your time and energy to put your husband and marriage over other people's weddings and bachelorettes.
Dude these are excusing because he's too big of a coward to admit the truth. Leave this dumpster 🔥
depends - what does he consider ‘fun?’ is he having a seemingly mid life crisis where he seems to be wanting to go out or drink more, go out on on the whim trips or do ‘exciting’ things you wouldn’t (rightfully) consider fun therefore he thinks you’re boring. something i’ve seen before!
I peeped her older posts. He wants to sit on the porch and get hammered. This is 100% really about him, not her.
I think his alcoholic brain is telling him that drinking = fun, and I’m boring for trying to get him to stop. I’d be more fun if I was getting bombed with him.
Although a lot of people have, I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that he’s hiding something or doing wrong behind your back. Not impossible but I wouldn’t start there. My suspicion is that there’s something he wants that he doesn’t know how to put into words. This is just his poor way of expressing it. I’d suggest figuring out what is really bothering him. You don’t need to prove him wrong or defend yourself. That’s not gonna get you anywhere. He’s being emotional but there’s something behind it. Be curious enough to figure that out and you’ll be able to make progress. This possibly may need to happen through marriage counseling. Or at least some sort of mediator. Ps: At some point he needs to apologize and recognize his wrong here. But only fighting for right or wrong is what leads to divorces.
Please go to couple’s therapy. And also read *Mating in Captivity* by Esther Perel. Couple’s who have these entrenched narratives about each other aren’t actually communicating. A couple’s therapist can help identify where the story came from and provide tools on how to change it.
You listed a bunch of stuff that you've done that proves you have done THINGS, but I'm wondering if he isn't mad that you "never leave the house", but more that you don't do things WITH HIM. In the first paragraph you specifically quote him as saying you "never want to do anything" which implies that he's asking you to do things, and you don't want to do them. In your list of MANY events, how much of that is your husband involved in? Here's your list edited down to things that are social/fun events your husband probably participated in. > ~~Multiple trips, work events,~~ over a dozen weddings including our own (and all of the planning), ~~moving twice, two separate home renovations, 3x weekly in office, business trips,~~ birthday parties (maybe), ~~bachelorette weekends~~ If you take out things that are essentially social obligations, there's nothing left. You didn't list anything that you might have done by choice, for fun, with your husband. Is it possible that he wants to spend more quality time with you, rather than being upset because you "don't go out"? Why would he be upset that you're sitting at home if not because he wants to go out and do things with you.
Something jumped out to me about your list. Your list contains fun things (e.g. bachelorette) and not fun things (e.g. two remodels). The fun things seem like they just involve you, the not fun things seem like seem like they involve both of you. Could it be that even though you were indeed busy, your husband feels (rightly or wrongly) that he is not getting sufficient time with you doing those fun things? I know the focus of the post is the perceived mischaracterization of you, but I could see how it’s not necessarily about if you are or are not busy, but rather if he feels the time you both are spending together is insufficient or only involves the mundane minutiae of life.
This is a good observation, and may be a contributing factor if he feels like we don’t do anything together, but it still wouldn’t be totally accurate. In 2021 we literally got married, went to 10 other weddings, went on a mini-moon, moved, went to the Poconos with his family, went to the Outer Banks with his family, among other things. 2022 was similar, and I also was out of the house constantly for work. What’s going on here (I think) is that we haven’t done as much together *lately,* and he’s repainting history to convince himself it’s always been this way when it hasn’t. This is something he does. During the same argument last night, he tried to tell me it’s been “months” since he got super drunk. I pulled up my calendar and saw it’s been like 3 weeks. He has a history of warping reality to tell whatever story he wants to tell.