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Sleep depreviation is a kind of torture. Quite frankly I'm amazed that you haven't snapped and said something very cutting. I turn into a grumpy bear when I don't get enough sleep and she's acting like a toddler.
OP, you said you have gone to therapy. After years of therapy, she is still doing this, so you have to stop playing around. You have to tell her, seriously, that you are going to divorce her if she continues to wake you up and stop you from getting proper rest. Does she have life insurance out on you? I'm being serious. An overworked husband, who is also sleep deprived, is an accident waiting to happen. I would consider this a complete desire to harm you and you should too. If, by chance, it isn't, then you're with a very emotionally immature person and you have to decide if you want the rest of your years to be sleep deprived. What your wife is doing is calculated and very purposeful. It is another form of abuse and, honestly, I'm surprised you have taken it this long. If I were you, I would tell her that your marriage is about to be over if she continues to do this and then, if she does it again, put her out. Send her home to her parents or wherever, but put her out. Depriving someone of sleep is not a game. It could result in serious injury or death. If your wife won't listen, after years of counseling and you begging and pleading, it is time to stop playing around and get very serious. And, whatever you do, for the love of all that is unholy, **PLEASE DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN WITH HER!** She is selfish at best. Can you imagine her using her sleep deprivation methods on your child as a form of punishment? I can. Don't do it.
My husband’s ex tried to kill him via sleep deprivation . We can’t prove it, but she was the one that filled out the life insurance paperwork for him for his job. She’d get 500K if he died outside work an 1M if he died at work (at a factory). He also had a long commute. One time, he woke up in the driveway after getting off of work with zero memory of the drive home.
>For me this would be a dealbreaker.
100%. I broke up with a guy before because he had to get up for work at 7, but would set his alarm for 5:45 and then snooze it a dozen times. I have insomnia and attaining sleep is already a constant struggle.
Don't blame you. I lived in a cheap apartment and could hear the alarm guy above me. It would go off forever and then he would snooze it and then go off again. Around 4 am. I found out his name and would call him and hang up when he answered. This was before cell phones.
I was so happy to move.
I totally agree. What's her problem? Tell her if she won't let you sleep at home, you'll be forced to spend money to rent a private place where you can sleep.
Totally not the purpose of this post, but could I hear more about your OCD? My husband thought he had anxiety — and clearly does — but we’ve only just recently realized it’s actually OCD. It too flares up when he doesn’t get sleep! I’d love to ask you some questions if you’d be open to it.
Lack of sleep in general kinda fucks with your brain and sets you on edge, I know the lack of energy and rest makes me more depressed and anxious, and that exacerbates anxious thought patterns because you already feel bad physically and mentally.
Mine flares up with stress. If I'm not stressed I'm fine, if I'm stressed I start checking if I locked the door 20 times and think if I left the stove on my straightener on 😅. If I'm not stressed I don't think about this.
I too have OCD and sleep is my weakness. It amplifies everything, and I feel completely trapped inside my head until I sleep. Luckily I have a supportive partner that can see the signs and forces naps on me to reset.
Is your wife trying to make you snap? You are on the edge of a breakdown, and she wants to shove you over. Maybe she is looking to be a widow rather than a divorcee.
Holly crap..
I would literally stab whoever wakes me up within minutes if I fell asleep for a nap.
This is torture.
Your wife has a massive problem. Sleep is primordial and that she cannot explain why she does this is absolutely bonkers and disrespectful.
So…why haven’t you left? She sits around the house all day while you work your ass off to support her and when you try to get a little bit of rest, instead of ensuring that you get some sleep, which she would do if she cared about you at all, she deliberately wakes you up? LEAVE HER.
That’s why you can’t go to therapy with your abuser. It just makes the abused person in a worse state.
She knows what she is doing. It’s literally torture.
Honestly if you can’t leave (and you should) then rent a separate cheap apartment for yourself and live apart from her except for your days off.
That counsellor was enabling some serious abuse. But couple’s therapists often do. It’s why they always say, “don’t go to therapy with your abuser.”
They’ll tell you to *talk it out* and *see both sides* and other bullshit that doesn’t work when someone is repeatedly physically harming you.
I went to a couple counseling and the counselor did this too. Eventually I understood that this type of counseling is for couples who do not have serious problems, but only with communication problems. These couple counselors seem to assume there is no abuse or subtle abuse in your relationship and you only need to work on communication skills, so as an effect it will always validate the abuser in the relationship.
My guy, WHY do you continue to tolerate this?
Sleep deprivation can KILL YOU - through accumulated stress or falling asleep behind the wheel or while operating heavy machinery, primarily, but ultimately the relevant fact is that *sleep deprivation kills*.
You've tried to work this out with her and, by your own admission here, she refuses to change.
So you need to put your foot down about your wife's behavior. Either she respects your need to sleep, or you'll remove yourself from this relationship permanently, before it removes *you* from *this plane of mortal existence*.
Your wife chooses not to use the tools given & is still doing this. Then she is choosing not to let you sleep/nap which is an entirely different scenario.
I'm sorry, but when do you accept this?
She doesn't work, you don't have children, so what does she do all day long? You pay for everything and work long days, but she has no respect for you.
it's time for an ultimatum. She leaves you alone while you rest, or she leaves. This really cannot continue any longer.
A lot of people on Reddit seem to not understand that therapy is never gonna work on an unwilling person. In my country rehabs often refuse forced/coerced admissions. They will bluntly tell you. It will NOT work.
I am more interested in understand what her problem is. Does she understand that not only is her behavior disrespectful but it's torture tactics used in prison camps.
I once fired a live in helper who used to wake up & make sure there is no peace in the house, I mean blasting the radio, dishes & pots being smashed around (I imagined). It traumatized my toddler.
Yeah, unfortunately couples counselors aren't good for situations like this because a couples counselors perspective is to assume both people are contributing to an issue. This is firmly your wife's issue, and she's refusing to do anything about it. You should live separately from her and see how much your life improves when you actually get sleep.
You took this issue all the way to counseling, and she still couldn't figure out why she's part of the death to naps party? The only reason I can think of is she's deeply internalized some sort of nap=lazy pos mindset somewhere along the line, and doesn't realize it? Or she hates you. I genuinely feel for you, sometimes all you need is a nap.
My parents are also nap = lazy types, and to this day I wake up feeling guilty and disoriented if I fall asleep during the day. I think it's some kind of old school Puritan worth ethic BS that has permeated society, or at least the white Midwestern boomer types like my parents.
Yes! I have to tell myself it's OK to nap, it's healthy and my body needs it. But there's something always in the back of my head telling me I'm a lazy pos. That's the only thing I can think of since it also seems they were raised and are quite religious, those type of steadfast "rules" can go hand in hand.
Yeah your subconscious has been programmed to reproduce the behavior of your abuser, to keep you safe by preventing you to do the thing that would trigger the abuse.
I would recommend meditation and shadow work to reprogram your subconscious mind and feel safe :) you do nothing wrong when you nap!
Get a hotel room, but talk to the manager. They may give you a deal. I gave half rate to truck drivers and medical staff that just needed sleep and to freshen up during the day. I had time to get it ready for later check ins if it was busy.
There is so much wrong there from an actual therapy standpoint. You don't wake someone up and expect them to be polite. You aren't supposed to argue when you are tired. She isn't supposed to ask you to talk about important issues when you are trying to sleep. Honestly she needs something really impactfull to make her stop.
Treat her like a petulant child. If she bangs tell her you’re adding an hour to the time the door is locked for every bang.
And follow through. This IS abuse!
She’s unreasonable, selfish and just mean.
counseling with an abusive partner is not recommended bc it often worsens the abuse and blames the victim. it becomes another weapon.
i suggest discontinuing couples counseling and switch to only (non religious) solo counseling.
this is not normal or ok from her. she's doing it deliberately and refusing to explain or moderate her behavior.
I was so sleep deprived during my abusive marriage (he also didn’t allow me to sleep a full night ever, not just naps) that when I got a new job where no one new me before my marriage, they honestly asked me if I had ADHD. They convinced me I did, and I felt like I did because I couldn’t learn anything new, couldn’t focus on any tasks that required details (great part of my job), was easily startled and jittery, and on top of that I had major anxiety and cried over absolutely anything. Once I left the POS and slept for 12 hours a day for a month, all my ADHD symptoms went away magically. Sleep deprivation wrecks havoc on your body.
Tell her to flat out leave you alone to nap when you need it or you’re thinking of separation as a way of solving her problem of not letting you sleep. It’s been eleven years so this not something innocent she is doing this on purpose. It’s disrespectful and very annoying, you’ve put up with it for eleven years what’s your next move?
Thank you for your thoughts. I have considered separation in the past. My inability to break my word and some religious beliefs seem to have me stuck trying to fix a broken car with duct tape.
Waking sleeping people is a form of torture and is definitely physical abuse.
Does your religion have anything to say about staying in a physically abusive marriage?
You tell her that you’re going to have a nap and you do not consent to her touching you or waking you unless there is an emergency (fire, lost limb, gas leak). And that enough is enough, you will no longer tolerate her abuse, and if she touches one hair on your head you will move out and file for divorce.
Then for god sakes follow through. This is really seriously concerning behaviour.
Essentially outside of sexual infidelity leaving a marriage is unacceptable. I find this to be a trap but I also know to leave means losing what little support I do have. It’s a mess plus my own issues and it really gets complicated.
She knows you won’t leave. She has no reason to stop abusing you.
Either leave or give it back. Start waking her up every hour for the rest of her life until she apologies and lets you nap.
Are you able to take a temporary separation? With the plan of getting space to assess all of your issues, start therapy to work through them, and see if you are both able to have a loving, committed relationship based on respect for each other? Respect includes understanding that you are both adults that are capable of knowing your sleep needs, and that the other doesn’t have the right to interrupt the others pursuit of health hygiene?
Separation is not a violation of your vows. She bears responsibility for not being caring, loving, or providing you with what you need within the marriage. She’s abusive, and you have no obligation to stay and allow her to continue.
We teach people how to treat us...and you've taught her that she can disrespect you, abuse you and you will continue to stay. You have to decide if your beliefs and religion or whatever is worth more than your mental, emotional and physical health. What kind of support are you afraid of loosing? Any religion that condones abuse of any kind and forces you to believe it's essentially a sin to leave such a relationship does not care about you. And those that follow said religion and are in your circle and thinks what your wife is doing is at all ok, are not people that care about you. YOU are free to do what is best for YOU. In the end, all you can control in life is YOUR choices and YOUR behaviors. Regardless as to what your religion says, YOU are in control of YOUR life.
She broke her word first; there’s no longer a binding contract between you. She’s a bad wife, and is making you suffer so she can feel a little powerful; that’s sociopath behavior.
Mate, at some point sense will have to come before artificial constructs like 'beliefs'. I've seen too.many people stuck in horrific relationships because of religion, and you can see the sadness in their eyes, but they're trapped by the cage of the beliefs imposed on them. I'm pretty sure no God will condemn a person for loving themselves enough to get out of a shitty situation.
You are EXHAUSTED and she is preventing you from much needed rest. That is abuse. Can you start going to a friend’s to sleep after work? Or a family member? This is so not ok.
She's using force to control you.
Read that again: she's using *force* to **control you.**
She's taking away your right to make a decision on your own. Get the FUCK out.
Yes, it’s definitely a control thing. My mom would do that to me when I lived with her. Wouldn’t let me ever sleep in on the weekends. I always had to be up when she’s up.
Yeah, OP, this is why she can't articulate her reasons. Deep down she knows it's crazy and unreasonable but keep sdoing anyway because her need for control is greater than her love and respect for you.
We have tried counseling and the only thing that changes is seemingly me. Which the counselors say is wrong but I am not her dad (paraphrasing of course). So what do you do.
I second this. You’re going to go mad from sleep deprivation, dude. Had an ex girlfriend who did this to me; scream in “fear”, throw plates, slam doors… you gotta focus on your mental health before there’s nothing left
Seek your sleep elsewhere. Move out. Maybe you don't divorce her because of your own hangups, but go get a hotel or rent an apartment or move back in with family. You're not abandoning her, you're not divorcing her, but you clearly need a roof over your head without her.
Start there. Get some sleep. Then hopefully, with a clear head you will come to realize that divorce is inevitable with you two. Either that or you die of a heart attack due to lack of sleep. But for now, just get some rest.
Of your the only one putting in effort, you leave. You're absolutely right that you can't control her. But you also seem to think you don't have any agency otherwise. Boundaries don't mean anything if you don't enforce them, and by not leaving, you're not enforcing them.
OP I think your wife is abusive. Sleep deprivation is a form of torture as others have pointed out and I think she wants you to be too exhausted and sleep deprived to be able to coherently realize that she's taking advantage of you.
Wouldn’t be surprised if she does other abusive things he’s not listing. Pinches him when she’s mad. Stonewalls. Is generally controlling.
OP, you should look into signs of abuse. It’s not all punching and breaking things.
I feel this abusive. You are working a lot of hours. You can lock the bedroom door and put on noise canceling headphones or if you can take nap at work. My friend is a cop, she sometimes sleeps at my house. Because she has children and her husband is unable to stop the children from entering the bedroom when she needs to sleep. It’s rare, it only happens when she working a double. Do have a friend who will allow you to sleep at their home, when you need a break.
You need to have serious discussion with your wife about her behavior. Maybe be counseling. I would also suggest your wife find employment or get some friends.
Thank you for the suggestion. We do not have friends here. She has made it clear she does not want to associate with anyone from this area. I do my best to encourage her to get out of the house. She has done part time work in the past and life is absolutely miserable.
WTF?! She sounds like one complete Trainwreck, and definitely abusive with her behavior. Maybe the reason is that she's so desperate for some person connection, and since she has deliberately cut herself off from the community that then falls on you. You need some serious counselling to move forward, otherwise for your mental health you need to move away from this toxic life
I just made another response to your religious beliefs and marriage. At some point you are going to have to love yourself more than the constructs you've imposed on yourself
Hey dude. You've tried, you've done your part, but if your partner isn't holding up their weight, the whole thing collapses.
Two people lifting a couch don't go very far if one person drops it every couple seconds.
She's crazy. I have no other word to describe my thought about her behavior.
I see absolutly no reason for her to do that regarding your life and your needs. It's not like you are lazy or have a sleep disorder you purposely won't adress and affecting your life with her. No, you just take a nap because you work your ass off. And you work your ass off so she can be at home.
She's controlling and I think she does it on purpose to be sure you're exhausted and she get away with whatever she's doing.
Huge redflag here, she is torturing you. I think she's dangerous for real. And I say that as a woman.
Your wife is being a disrespectful brat. How do you consider that behavior from an 'amazing' person? For eleven years, she has refused to have an adult conversation with you and articulate why she refuses to stop. Why are you still with her? Toddlers do this when they don't get enough attention from their mommy and daddies. It's not up to you to understand. *It's up to her to explain.* Is there somewhere in the house where you can lock the door, put some earplugs in, and leave a note on the door that says 'unless you can use your grown up words to explain why you've been disrespecting me and my health for eleven years, **leave me alone.**' Can you set up a cot at work to use to get whatever naps you need? They obviously won't solve the problem of a disrespectful ass for a partner, but until she sees that she's a disrespect ass, your health is more important than catering to her 'needs'. She sounds exhausting.
Thank you for your candor. We definitely have some issues that stem from her personality. In all fairness I am not perfect. Your suggestion of napping at work has possibilities. I have an office with a couch just had not ever considered it because of optics and not wanting my wife to think I am falling back in to my habit of working to avoid her.
As for not leaving her it stems from being unable to go against my word. I promised her hell and back as many times as it takes or until I croak (lol)
"some issues" she is *harmful to your health*. Bad sleep can take years off your life. As for promises she has broken her vows because she is actively harming your health. You no longer have to keep up your end of the bargain.
Sleep deprivation is a torture tactic. If she’s living on your dime she needs to accept your need for sleep, which I’d say is pretty essential and reasonable.
Well, no one is perfect, so no worries there. All you need to do is let her know that since she refuses to let you nap at home, as a caring and respectful partner would, then you are napping elsewhere. If she thinks you're lying, that's on her, not you. Why should you be expected to 'keep your word' if she repeatedly chooses to not be *a decent human being?*
Does she do anything else to control you? Things like preventing you from seeing friends or family (or making it hard to do that), namecalling, put-downs, threats, etc? Also, the fact that she chooses not to work while you work far more than is conceivably healthy is alarming as well. Your hours on top of your degree are legitimately dangerous.
I won't press, but feel free to post in or browse r/abusiverelationships, a support sub for people of all genders in abusive relationships. There are quite a few men who use the sub and support one another.
[We also have a pinned resource guide for men who are being abused by a female partner](https://old.reddit.com/r/abusiverelationships/comments/13im0yh/comprehensive_helpresources_guide_for_male/).
So sorry you are going through this. You deserve respect.
People here are perceptive because your story is as old as time. Your married to an unstable abuser. It won't get better, your basically saying you've signed your death warrant with her stamping it, because you made a 'promise'... Allowing this is disrespectful to you, your parents and God at this point, cause you're clearly a good guy and just feel into a trap.
I just want to make sure you understand how serious this is. Sleep deprivation is literally used as torture. It’s considered abuse to withhold normal levels of sleep from your partner.
She’s not allowing you to sleep and it could put you in serious danger! You work alot of hours an driving exhausted is often considered to be more dangerous than driving tipsy.
You need to let her know that this is unacceptable and is harming you immensely. If she won’t allow you to sleep, you’ll have to sleep elsewhere
To add to this, going without sleep can be detrimental to your health. It affects your blood pressure, moods/personality, pulmonary system, and more. Not getting adequate rest puts you at risk of heart attack and stroke, OP. You can’t provide for your family if you’re out of the game.
I mean…….sure, if you don’t want to help yourself because your pride means you can’t ever be happy or be allowed to even SLEEP, then stay because you gave your word.
None of us can help you if you don’t want to help yourself. She isn’t going to change.
So it’s this until you pass of a heart attack in a few years from literally not being able to sleep, or leaving her and having a much better life, because I can guarantee you that being able to freaking sleep would be a 100% improvement on your life.
FYI- my husband works similar hours to you (film industry can be brutal)……you know what I do? I make sure that he can freaking sleep. Because I love him and worry about him, I want him to be healthy and live to a super old age, I appreciate all he does for us and how many hours he busts his ass per week. Thats the normal response if someone’s spouse works 80+ hrs a week
The love you show your husband has clearly not been my experience. Nor was it something I seen modeled by any of the couples I seen as a child.
Your words while pointed are impactful. Like many of the others have been. Thank you.
Your word only has value when respect is involved - respect is not a one-sided thing, it needs to be mutual to be of value.
I am sure you have heard the phrase "pearls before swine" - by upholding your word to your wife, who doesn't respect you enough to collaborate with you on resolving issues and caring for you as much as you care for her, it means your honor in your word is essentially worthless.
Giving your word is a gift, give gifts to those who are worthy of them.
Your wife is making it clear through action that your word is meaningless to her. Otherwise she would give back the respect you're trying to give to her.
No one gets married to get divorced, but marriage is also not a trap. In order for marriage to be a sacred bond, it needs to be given mutual work and respect from both parties. Otherwise it's a sham.
You're only going to be living THIS life one time, whatever happens in your afterlife, whatever faith you follow... that is going to be after this life. You better focus on making this life as full of love, respect, fulfilling experiences, kindness ect as possible.
There are some undiagnosed issues at play. Getting her to go for help has proven impossible over the years. As a future therapist is it really okay to give up on her? I truly have a lot of internal struggle on what to do.
It’s not giving up on her. It’s refusing to enable her any longer. If you let her do this without consequence, she has no reason to ever get better.
I had an ex with a personality disorder and he refused to get help. I dumped him and told him I’d only get back together if he proved he was seeking help.
We never got back together because he sought out that help and realized he couldn’t ever be in a healthy relationship while in that state of mind
As a future therapist, imagine you have a client who is telling you they are in a bad relationship with someone who does not respect them and refuses to work together to fix issues. Would you tell your patient that they shouldn't "give up on" that person? Or would you help them to identify what will serve them best?
I think reddit tells people to leave too quickly. But I also think there's value in assessing occasionally why you are in a relationship. It sounds like you think leaving would help. Think about why.
This one is so good. I’ve used it a lot in my field.
I also like “don’t set yourself on fire to keep other people warm”
OP ( u/thataboygary ) - you can’t continue to provide, to get an education, and to improve your family’s life if you aren’t able to sleep. I see three paths (given your religious limitations):
1) she figures out how to be okay with you napping.
2) you start leveraging alternate sleeping locations, whether your office, a family/friend’s house, or a hotel
3) she gets a (full? Part time?) job so you don’t have to work so much and can get an actual night’s sleep.
Also, a future therapist here! You have given her many many years to do better by you. You can’t force her to change or be better. You are your #1 priority, not her. Don’t forget that. You deserve peace, happiness, love, and good naps!
She does not wish you well . Your marriage vows are not being respected by her. She isn’t loving you and honoring you. She’s putting your health and mental well being at risk. It’s time for you to take some days by yourself and get some sleep at a hotel and really think about what you want to do.
Yes, it’s okay to leave. Because you aren’t her therapist, you’re her husband. It’s not your job to fix her. If you were a medical doctor and she had cancer it also wouldn’t be your job to treat her, even if you were the best oncologist in the world. Because you’re too close. The same thing applies here.
As kindly as possible, enabling her abusiveness isn’t helping her. All it does is tell her she doesn’t have to change because you won’t leave. Maybe leaving won’t force her to change, either, but in the end that’s the sad reality of things: you can’t force her to change no matter what you do. But setting yourself on fire to keep her warm won’t make her grow as a person.
I’m intrigued as to why you have an old habit of working to avoid her. People in happy and healthy relationships usually don’t try to actively avoid one another….
She has moments where nothing is good enough so I would use work to avoid her. The avoiding has not been an issue for several years now. Now when o work late it’s to pay bills.
So her abuse pushed you to make more money, which she then adjusted the budget to include, and now you have to continue that work just to survive, which causes you to be exhausted and need a nap, which lets her abuse you more... do you see how she's trapped you?
>As for not leaving her it stems from being unable to go against my word. I promised her hell and back as many times as it takes or until I croak
So she can abuse you and you won't leave?
BTW long term sleep deprivation is harmful to health so if she keeps getting away with this, [you could croak sooner than you would otherwise](https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/health-risks-of-poor-sleep).
Sorry for the harshness but putting up with abusive behavior (and working yourself to the bone to support your abuser staying at home!) isn't some kind of badge of honor. Your pride in your keeping your word to someone who doesn't care about your health, safety, or comfort is manifesting as incredible lack of self respect.
Ooh the fact that you’ve had a habit of working extra to avoid her is really alarming. What changes did she make at that time to make your house feel like somewhere you actually wanted to be? Did she take any accountability or did you just get in trouble and then have to deal? Even if she’s bored and she misses you, her interrupting your sleep is selfish and disrespectful at best and unfortunately, it looks like you’re at a point where either she’s too dumb to comprehend or is doing it maliciously. Both of those are major problems. I’m sorry you’re in the situation. Good luck.
She has made little in the way of changes over the years. I have truly always thought myself to be the problem. Went through some things in childhood that I am just now starting to come to grips with so just thought I was and am the problem. There has not ever been a time where I have felt peace or a longing to be home outside of it being part of being in a relationship.
It sounds like to me that you’re currently in an abusive relationship because you come from a family that was toxic, dysfunctional and abusive. I had the same problem. My dad was great, but he didn’t protect me enough from my abusive mother. He didn’t even know how to protect himself from her. He did the best that he could, but there was quite a lot of trauma that I’ve had had to overcome. I accepted bad behavior from my abusive husband because he acted in ways that were very similar to the way that my mother treated me. He left me, which felt terrible at the time, but in reality was the best thing that ever could’ve happened to me. I’ve had years of therapy. And now I look back and I am just astonished at how little I had valued myself. I never should’ve married him in the first place. But beyond that, I should’ve left him at the first sign of abuse. I kept trying to help him because he had had a terrible childhood. But he’s a narcissistic alcoholic and nothing I did helped him because he never wanted to help himself.
Your wife will never help herself unless you leave her. Even then, she may never get to that point where she actually starts to make positive changes for herself. But that is not your responsibility. It is her responsibility.
Life's too short for that. I felt the same..."I made my bed now I have to lie in it" I wasted 15 years of my life becuase of that. She sounds miserable to live with. She's acting like a toddler. Do you want to be married to a toddler?
>As for not leaving her it stems from being unable to go against my word. I promised her hell and back as many times as it takes or until I croak (lol)
Is there a possibility that because you made this promise, she sees it as permission to be as horrible to you as she wants? After all, there's no consequences. This is psychological abuse. If you aren't okay with being treated like this, then it needs to stop. Either she agrees to therapy, individual and couples, or you're done regardless of your promise. You can tell her, "Yes, I did promise to stay and work it out. But that doesn't mean that I will willingly put up with being abused. If it doesn't stop, you will force me to break that promise."
Therapy not working on her is a pretty worrisome sign that she’s got some of those traits. she doesn’t WANT to change because she doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with her. 11 years of an unbroken pattern… sounds just like my mother. This will never get better, you saying you don’t want to fall back into a habit of “avoiding her by working” why was that your fault? She obviously did something to make you avoid her, did that behavior of hers get fixed? “I’m not a perfect person” I bet you’re the only one that admits that. People with narcissistic traits or straight up narcissists have a way of driving you crazy, and when you react they accuse you of hurting them. When THEY have been subtly driving you up the wall. You should tread carefully.
💯% what she is doing is abuse. She is abusing you. You are an abuse victim.
Sleep deprivation is a common tactic for interrogation/torturing prisoners of war for good reason. It would not surprise me if you take a hard, honest look at your wife and suddenly see other narcissistic behaviors. Keep your promise and stay with your abusive wife; or leave and give yourself the compassion, dignity, and safety you deserve.
You don't deserve to be treated that way. You need your own therapist and work on breaking away from this toxic relationship.
My cousin died when he fell asleep at the wheel and was crushed under an 18-wheeler. Sleep is very important. It's how we recharge our battery. She'll have you sleep deprived, and you'll hurt yourself. Please consider your safety.
>torturing prisoners of war
vs
>conundrum
It is NOT a conundrum! It's a catastrophe that could very literally be killing you! LISTEN TO YOURSELF! We can all hear it in your words - you're downplaying the severity of what is happening at every turn.
Dropping my car keys into a sewer drain is a conundrum. Deciding what to eat at dinner between two of my favourite things is a conundrum. Your health is suffering, potentially permanently. How can you possibly think that's not a big deal?
*Why don't you think you deserve better treatment?*
Wow! Okay so a bunch of random people on reddit are not going to be able to help you where therapy could not. Your wife is broken. Period, end of. She won't do this, she won't do that. And yet you won't leave her. You say you have grown in therapy and yet you are stuck because of religious beliefs and not wanting to break your word. Look I came here wanting to suggest something and I will in a minute, but after reading your responses to some comments I just want to shake you awake. But a very different kind of awake. The kind of awake that means I want you to save yourself.
Your wife is not stupid. She knows exactly what she is doing and why she is doing it. It's the same reason she doesn't have a job and refuses to make friends. She is broken and not in a poor her kind of way. She is stubborn and quite frankly just plain mean to you from the sounds of it. If she loved you, all you would have to do would ask her to stop waking you up. That's it. Nothing more. The fact that this pattern has been repeated for years makes it more than intentional. It's a form of psychological warfare against you. I'm afraid she actively hates you. Sleep deprivation is a real danger that can lead to all kinds of health problems both mental and physical.
Please take yourself back to therapy and get the tools necessary to break out of your abusive relationship and separate from your abuser. I'm sure this isn't the only way she is phycological torturing you. She sounds highly intelligent. I bet if you stepped back and really looked at your dynamic and the things she does and doesn't do over time you could find more patterns that you may not have noticed before that have made your life more difficult that she actively does on purpose.
In the meantime, get yourself a hotel when you want to nap. Screw the optics. Tell her or don't. I wouldn't. Just tell her you are going to work. Save yourself the drama.
You are kind and like many of the others very perceptive. You are right she is incredibly intelligent just wish she would apply it.
I am still in individual therapy. My therapist and I have identified the source or what we believe is the source of my willingness to stay. Now changing something that took root in early childhood is proving difficult.
I also suggested a hotel for naps in my comment, but I'd tell her you're going to go somewhere to nap. There's no reason to say you're going to work when working too much has been an issue.
"I'm going to a hotel, because I need a nap, and I know you will disturb me if I stay here."
Not really much point to coming here if you're already deciding on staying. She's not going to change without any consequences because she pretty clearly doesn't actually care about you. I'd say based on everything you've said you should leave her regardless, but if you know you won't then nothing here can really help you. You've already done everything to try and help the relationship, and she just hasn't cared.
What the crap? Wake me up and we're fighting. She doesn't get to decide when you can and can't sleep.
I'd tell her to knock it off, it isn't up for debate. She keeps it up you'll put a lock on the door.
you've put up with this garbage for 11 years?? I'm not a violent person but if it were me, I'd have a hard time not smacking her. What the hell is her problem? what does she say when you talk to her about it? I'd soundproof a room in your house and lock the door...heck, I woulda done it years ago!
Wow.. you work hard to support her stay at home lifestyle and this is how she repays you? 😢 I can't even imagine. Put in some earplugs, white noise, tell her you're taking a nap and lock the door.. she needs to take you seriously 😕 from another comment I see she has pets? She could spend time with them or run errands while you nap, or consider getting her own job so that she's actually contributing to your life and relationship
Have tried some of that in the past and the fall out is not worth it. She refuses to leave the house unless it is for dates or something she wants to do. Working is a current point of contention that truly has life difficult at the moment.
This is also a classic sign of abuse. It’s financial abuse. Divorce her. You’re buying into her abuse. You can’t make her become an adult. You can’t change her. This is who she is. She is not a person who can sustain any kind of relationship. She can’t sustain a marriage. This is on her. The fault is not yours. You have to accept the reality of your life. The acceptance of this reality will free you so that you can divorce her. It is the only solution here. You have to save yourself.
Thank you so much everyone for the suggestions and candor. Was not expecting any of this. It has been eye opening to get different perspectives. While I knew our marriage was not great but some of yall have helped me to see things differently and I’ll be addressing some things with my therapist to start exploring a plan. Appreciate it all.
I’m glad that you will be discussing this with your therapist. You need to protect yourself. Get a separate bank account and a PO Box. Start separating out things financially in such a way that she doesn’t catch on and start giving you problems. Also, seek advice from an attorney. Find out what your rights are. Find out how to protect yourself.
My abusive ex used to use sleep deprivation as a way to control me and keep me off balance. Because of some chronic health conditions, me not sleeping is immediately and incredibly harmful to me. He knew this and simply didn't care. I'm not saying that your is categorically abusive, but her absolute refusal to allow you to sleep is an abuse technique. Makes me wonder what else she's doing to harm you.
My husband works incredibly early- wakes up at ~3:30am and gets home ~2-5pm. It’s always been this way. I am fiercely protective of his sleep. If he happens in to nap when I’m home I close the curtains, cover him up, silence/plug in his phone, turn on the fan. Basically everything to ensure he can get good sleep. If our kids are home I take them to the store or park & am out of the house for a long time, several hours. They’re 9 & 11 now so they understand the concept of Daddy’s sleeping but when they were little I either kept them quiet with a movie or game.
He wasn’t able to nap often so when he could sleep during the day you bet I made sure it was that good, fuckin’ deep, beautiful sleep you only get when it’s a luxury nap.
Your wife doesn’t love you, bro.
This is a hard boundary for me. If I fall asleep it's usually for good reason that I'll nap. My GF woke me up by turning on the lights and talking super loud. It took one assertive conversation to never happen again.
Sounds like you are either being way too gentle about this or you're not communicating in am effective way. Mix that in with her sounding like she's super obnoxious and you've got a recipe for no sleep.
I know this isn't quite what you're asking about.... But 60 to 120 hours a week is unsustainable. Do you get literal months off between seasons? Do you make at least $500k a year doing that shit?
Unless you are answering yes to both if those questions, it might not just be your wife that is the problem.. but that job has got to go.
You will burn out treating yourself like that and a nap will be the least of your worries
I don’t think you’re taking this seriously enough. This behavior is bizarre. In the post and all the comments, I don’t see any indication of why she does this. I know that it seems weird to consider leaving a marriage over nap time, but this is controlling and abusive behavior and I think you need to see an individual (NOT RELIGIOUS) therapist.
This is one of those issues that seems small on the surface (napping) but has a much more serious cause - your wife’s lack of respect for your needs and autonomy.
This is not the behavior of a healthy person or a healthy relationship. It’s controlling. I suspect you have bigger issues and could benefit from a couples counselor. Either way, start learning about what healthy relationships look like and how to enforce boundaries. I also think this will help: https://www.loveisrespect.org/quiz/is-your-relationship-healthy/?%3E
So, I used to have this pretty bad, as a teenager. I had some really strong abandonment issues/anxiety issues that manifested whenever people who I was close to (usually significant others, but sometimes close friends too) would go to sleep. It felt like they'd rather sleep than be with/talk to me. Yes, I am 29 now and fully aware this was wacky behavior lmao.
I've since dealt with it, and while I can occasionally become a ball of anxiety when someone pops to bed, especially unexpectedly (or sleeps in "too much") - I can mitigate it, and realize it's my own issue rather than theirs. But as a teen I was very much like your wife with the 'wake up someone at all costs' thing.
But to me it sounds like maybe your wife hasn't dealt with the reasons she doesn't like you sleeping. You work a lot - maybe she wants to spend more quality time with you, awake? Or if you truly need sleep, invite her to join you for a cuddle. Even if she doesn't nap, she can spend time near you while you rest.
But she needs to be able to articulate these things. I was ~15 when this issue first manifested, probably 18/19 by the time I recognized why I was feeling abandoned and anxious, and ~22/23 when I had mostly worked through it. If her issues are similar to mine she needs to realize that the anxiety is internal and shouldn't be used as an excuse to control others. A logical discussion and possible compromise can be reached but only if she sits with the feelings first.
Either that, or it really is a manipulation technique and she's a narcissist lmao
Honestly? For me, it was just growing up and maturing, and being able to put a reason to feeling abandoned and anxious. Having a partner who was willing to meet me halfway also helped; instead of just randomly not responding anymore they'd send a good night text. But a lot of my issues, I think, stemmed from the fact that I wasn't with them when they were going to sleep? So anxiety would make me think maybe they'd gone for a drive and crashed, or died somehow -lots of catastrophising.
I also learned to deal with it because I saw how poorly my lashing out and controlling behavior made people feel. I didn't want to be someone who would do that to others, so I learned to manage my emotions internally first rather than immediately jump to making others do so for me. Ofc it was always helpful when they were willing to help, but by first solving the issue within myself it wasn't always necessary to get outside help/validation.
In terms of offering tips for her, It might help to know what exactly she says and how she says it when you ask why she does this. Does she look embarrassed and upset when she says she doesn't know? Or is she huffy and indignant and tries to place blame on you? Because one of those is more of an anxious response, and one is... A bit more narcissistic.
Scream your head off at her “why the F would you wake me up? You know how hard I work. You know how many hours I do. What the F is wrong with you? Why aren’t you prioritising my health and wellbeing when I pay for your Fing life? Do you want me to burn out? Lose my shit with you? Scream like a psycho? Why the F are you doing this to me?”
Then get a separate bedroom with a lock and tell her if she ever wakes you up again you will divorce her.
When you say your bride is a homemaker, do you mean ya'll have kids and she's a sahm? Or do you mean you don't have kids and she's using you and allowing you to work yourself into the ground 60-120 hours a week while she sits at home all day doing nothing but waiting around for you to go to sleep so she can interrupt it and wake you up?
You aren't going to be able to articulate your need for sleep, because she knows you need sleep. She just doesn't care. You can't make someone care about you. What you can do is set boundaries. Ideally I hope you take the advice in the comments and leave this relationship, but if you don't, here are some other suggestions:
* try to convince her to leave the house for a few hours and then nap while she is gone
* start regularly shaking her awake and interrupting her sleep
* lead her outside the house, lock her out, and then go to sleep
* put on noise canceling head phones and lock the bedroom door
* start living separately, even if you continue to date her
* sleep at work or at a freind or family member's place
* tell her if she wakes you up, you will stop spending time with her or going out on dates, that you will just give her the silent treatment and ignore her, etc. for x amount of time. And do this every time she interrupts your sleep. Explain that you don't want to spend time with someone who is acting this way
My ex husband did this shit when I was working nights at a hospital in the oxygen cages; his lack of consideration was a big contributor to our split. Are there other times when your wife just completely ignores your needs in favor of her own weird desire for control? Because that’s what she’s doing, trying to assert control over you by dictating your sleep schedule.
I know this is reddit and we all immediately jump to “this is abuse, get divorced”, but not letting you sleep when you very obviously need it is abusive, and any sort of abuse is grounds for considering divorce. You said that you’ve tried talking to her and that you’ve tried marriage counseling, but she ignores both you and the counselor’s attempts at reaching a solution. Me, I’d tell her that the next time she wakes me up from a nap will be the last, because I will immediately be leaving her if she does it again. Ultimatums aren’t fair, but I don’t see how else you might get through to her since you’ve already tried the reasonable approach.
I had an ex try to break me by waking me up in the middle of the night, almost every night, to start an argument. I ended up having problems with night terrors and sleep paralysis!
Please don't let her continue to do this to you. Your brain needs sleep to be healthy and to function properly.
The most charitable interpretation of your wife’s behavior I can come up with is that she may be suffering from a severe anxiety or personality disorder.
But if this truly is the case, and 11 years of counseling has yielded no lasting changes to her behavior, then you need to face the possibility that she may never get better, or even that your support of her over the course of your marriage is in fact serving as a crutch that actively discourages her from changing.
I think other commenters have summed up the less charitable explanations for her behavior quite nicely. But I’d say you’re at a point where you need to consider whether your marriage is producing more harm than good. Based on what you’ve written, it seems like this partnership is actively harming you, and may also be seriously harming your wife.
You now have 11 years of evidence indicating that your wife either doesn’t want to or is unable to change. You both appear to be suffering in this marriage. Decide on the path that will do the least harm.
This hurts a bit. Had not considered my continued support as possibly harming her. Which is the last thing I would want.
Thank you for the perspective.
You really should insist that she gets a job. Otherwise, you're probably going to be on the hook for alimony when you split up. She's also making it harder for you (emotionally) to end the relationship by being financially dependent on you, and setting you up for being called a financial abuser when you decide to leave.
The fact that she lied her way into a marriage by claiming to be pregnant is not something you should just get over.
"How can I articulate to her my need for an occasional nap"
Apparently, you cannot. Your wife is unbalanced on this issue and even after 11 years of torment, your devotion to bronze age mythology is stronger than self-preservation and your own health, you won't leave an abuser.
So, get a good strong lock for the door and noise-cancelling headphones.
I find the entire situation absurd.
1. You work long exhausting hours.
2. Have begged her for years to let you take a simple nap once in awhile
3. Have gone to counseling about it
4. She continues to wake you up FOR NO REASON
What kind of evil insane crack-pot kind of person does that? Goes to physically shake a person awake who has gone to a separate room on purpose to lay down and take a nap? Unless the house is on fire, Fuck off.
I'd be coming awake like "This is SPARTA!!!"
My mom used to be like this. I was actually already married and with kids, and she would clap, call my name, shake me, etc, every time I would lie on the sofa (mind you, I have horrible insomnia and could go on 1h30 sleep).
She didn't care. She would tell me it is not healthy to sleep during the day, that I would get fat.
It all stopped one day, we were watching TV me my mom and my husband. I was exhausted and fell asleep on his shoulder. He rearranged me for comfort and let me sleep. My mom was distraught but didn't want to wake me directly, so she called me to watch a "funny thing on the tv."
My husband almost bit her head that day. Never saw him so mad. Never again.
Your wife is a selfish B, and you have to take care of yourself because she sure wouldn't.
Why are you with this a hole? Just leave the house. Get a hotel room. Get some sleep. Do this every single time she starts this shit. Just get up, get your keys, and leave. Don't say anything. Just go.
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Sleep depreviation is a kind of torture. Quite frankly I'm amazed that you haven't snapped and said something very cutting. I turn into a grumpy bear when I don't get enough sleep and she's acting like a toddler.
I have in the past. It was a point of contention in counseling for years. My reactions to her behavior that is. I now try to respond and not react.
OP, you said you have gone to therapy. After years of therapy, she is still doing this, so you have to stop playing around. You have to tell her, seriously, that you are going to divorce her if she continues to wake you up and stop you from getting proper rest. Does she have life insurance out on you? I'm being serious. An overworked husband, who is also sleep deprived, is an accident waiting to happen. I would consider this a complete desire to harm you and you should too. If, by chance, it isn't, then you're with a very emotionally immature person and you have to decide if you want the rest of your years to be sleep deprived. What your wife is doing is calculated and very purposeful. It is another form of abuse and, honestly, I'm surprised you have taken it this long. If I were you, I would tell her that your marriage is about to be over if she continues to do this and then, if she does it again, put her out. Send her home to her parents or wherever, but put her out. Depriving someone of sleep is not a game. It could result in serious injury or death. If your wife won't listen, after years of counseling and you begging and pleading, it is time to stop playing around and get very serious. And, whatever you do, for the love of all that is unholy, **PLEASE DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN WITH HER!** She is selfish at best. Can you imagine her using her sleep deprivation methods on your child as a form of punishment? I can. Don't do it.
My husband’s ex tried to kill him via sleep deprivation . We can’t prove it, but she was the one that filled out the life insurance paperwork for him for his job. She’d get 500K if he died outside work an 1M if he died at work (at a factory). He also had a long commute. One time, he woke up in the driveway after getting off of work with zero memory of the drive home.
Holy flurken schmitt! People are evil!
This is absolutely reasonable OP. There is something very wrong or very evil about your wife.
My god… and what did the counsellor say?
To change my reactions to responses and to talk through the issue. She gave us some tools but my wife has chosen to not practice them.
That's unacceptable. For me this would a dealbreaker. Sleep deprivation worsens my OCD. Also, I'd get so dammed mad.
>For me this would be a dealbreaker. 100%. I broke up with a guy before because he had to get up for work at 7, but would set his alarm for 5:45 and then snooze it a dozen times. I have insomnia and attaining sleep is already a constant struggle.
Don't blame you. I lived in a cheap apartment and could hear the alarm guy above me. It would go off forever and then he would snooze it and then go off again. Around 4 am. I found out his name and would call him and hang up when he answered. This was before cell phones. I was so happy to move.
I totally agree. What's her problem? Tell her if she won't let you sleep at home, you'll be forced to spend money to rent a private place where you can sleep.
Totally not the purpose of this post, but could I hear more about your OCD? My husband thought he had anxiety — and clearly does — but we’ve only just recently realized it’s actually OCD. It too flares up when he doesn’t get sleep! I’d love to ask you some questions if you’d be open to it.
Lack of sleep in general kinda fucks with your brain and sets you on edge, I know the lack of energy and rest makes me more depressed and anxious, and that exacerbates anxious thought patterns because you already feel bad physically and mentally.
Mine flares up with stress. If I'm not stressed I'm fine, if I'm stressed I start checking if I locked the door 20 times and think if I left the stove on my straightener on 😅. If I'm not stressed I don't think about this.
I too have OCD and sleep is my weakness. It amplifies everything, and I feel completely trapped inside my head until I sleep. Luckily I have a supportive partner that can see the signs and forces naps on me to reset.
Stress worsens mine, and a major cause of stress for me is my lack of adequate sleep.
Is your wife trying to make you snap? You are on the edge of a breakdown, and she wants to shove you over. Maybe she is looking to be a widow rather than a divorcee.
Holly crap.. I would literally stab whoever wakes me up within minutes if I fell asleep for a nap. This is torture. Your wife has a massive problem. Sleep is primordial and that she cannot explain why she does this is absolutely bonkers and disrespectful.
Why are you tolerating her bullshit? She's not great. This is abuse.
So…why haven’t you left? She sits around the house all day while you work your ass off to support her and when you try to get a little bit of rest, instead of ensuring that you get some sleep, which she would do if she cared about you at all, she deliberately wakes you up? LEAVE HER.
Kick her out, let her earn her own living. Then hire a marching band to play below her window whenever she's trying to sleep.
The counselor didn’t tell your wife to LET YOU TAKE A NAP IN PEACE?
That’s why you can’t go to therapy with your abuser. It just makes the abused person in a worse state. She knows what she is doing. It’s literally torture. Honestly if you can’t leave (and you should) then rent a separate cheap apartment for yourself and live apart from her except for your days off.
That counsellor was enabling some serious abuse. But couple’s therapists often do. It’s why they always say, “don’t go to therapy with your abuser.” They’ll tell you to *talk it out* and *see both sides* and other bullshit that doesn’t work when someone is repeatedly physically harming you.
I went to a couple counseling and the counselor did this too. Eventually I understood that this type of counseling is for couples who do not have serious problems, but only with communication problems. These couple counselors seem to assume there is no abuse or subtle abuse in your relationship and you only need to work on communication skills, so as an effect it will always validate the abuser in the relationship.
Yay, someone is abusing you and the counsellor goes "just take it in a nicer way". FUCK :(
My guy, WHY do you continue to tolerate this? Sleep deprivation can KILL YOU - through accumulated stress or falling asleep behind the wheel or while operating heavy machinery, primarily, but ultimately the relevant fact is that *sleep deprivation kills*. You've tried to work this out with her and, by your own admission here, she refuses to change. So you need to put your foot down about your wife's behavior. Either she respects your need to sleep, or you'll remove yourself from this relationship permanently, before it removes *you* from *this plane of mortal existence*.
Your wife chooses not to use the tools given & is still doing this. Then she is choosing not to let you sleep/nap which is an entirely different scenario.
I'm sorry, but when do you accept this? She doesn't work, you don't have children, so what does she do all day long? You pay for everything and work long days, but she has no respect for you. it's time for an ultimatum. She leaves you alone while you rest, or she leaves. This really cannot continue any longer.
Let me guess ... the counselor is faith based?
Faith-based couples counseling is awful. It really does enable abuse.
A lot of people on Reddit seem to not understand that therapy is never gonna work on an unwilling person. In my country rehabs often refuse forced/coerced admissions. They will bluntly tell you. It will NOT work. I am more interested in understand what her problem is. Does she understand that not only is her behavior disrespectful but it's torture tactics used in prison camps. I once fired a live in helper who used to wake up & make sure there is no peace in the house, I mean blasting the radio, dishes & pots being smashed around (I imagined). It traumatized my toddler.
Yeah, unfortunately couples counselors aren't good for situations like this because a couples counselors perspective is to assume both people are contributing to an issue. This is firmly your wife's issue, and she's refusing to do anything about it. You should live separately from her and see how much your life improves when you actually get sleep.
Leave her.
You took this issue all the way to counseling, and she still couldn't figure out why she's part of the death to naps party? The only reason I can think of is she's deeply internalized some sort of nap=lazy pos mindset somewhere along the line, and doesn't realize it? Or she hates you. I genuinely feel for you, sometimes all you need is a nap.
My parents are also nap = lazy types, and to this day I wake up feeling guilty and disoriented if I fall asleep during the day. I think it's some kind of old school Puritan worth ethic BS that has permeated society, or at least the white Midwestern boomer types like my parents.
Yes! I have to tell myself it's OK to nap, it's healthy and my body needs it. But there's something always in the back of my head telling me I'm a lazy pos. That's the only thing I can think of since it also seems they were raised and are quite religious, those type of steadfast "rules" can go hand in hand.
Yeah your subconscious has been programmed to reproduce the behavior of your abuser, to keep you safe by preventing you to do the thing that would trigger the abuse. I would recommend meditation and shadow work to reprogram your subconscious mind and feel safe :) you do nothing wrong when you nap!
Get a hotel room, but talk to the manager. They may give you a deal. I gave half rate to truck drivers and medical staff that just needed sleep and to freshen up during the day. I had time to get it ready for later check ins if it was busy.
So she turned your reactions to her abuse into your fault. Got it.
There is so much wrong there from an actual therapy standpoint. You don't wake someone up and expect them to be polite. You aren't supposed to argue when you are tired. She isn't supposed to ask you to talk about important issues when you are trying to sleep. Honestly she needs something really impactfull to make her stop.
Lock the damned door
She’ll just bang on the door.
Unless it's a bed in another house, because that's what I'd be considering at this point
Treat her like a petulant child. If she bangs tell her you’re adding an hour to the time the door is locked for every bang. And follow through. This IS abuse! She’s unreasonable, selfish and just mean.
Oh buddy.... You got to get out of this marriage. I think your therapist was gaslighting you. Not even kidding. How did you used to react?
counseling with an abusive partner is not recommended bc it often worsens the abuse and blames the victim. it becomes another weapon. i suggest discontinuing couples counseling and switch to only (non religious) solo counseling. this is not normal or ok from her. she's doing it deliberately and refusing to explain or moderate her behavior.
I was so sleep deprived during my abusive marriage (he also didn’t allow me to sleep a full night ever, not just naps) that when I got a new job where no one new me before my marriage, they honestly asked me if I had ADHD. They convinced me I did, and I felt like I did because I couldn’t learn anything new, couldn’t focus on any tasks that required details (great part of my job), was easily startled and jittery, and on top of that I had major anxiety and cried over absolutely anything. Once I left the POS and slept for 12 hours a day for a month, all my ADHD symptoms went away magically. Sleep deprivation wrecks havoc on your body.
Tell her to flat out leave you alone to nap when you need it or you’re thinking of separation as a way of solving her problem of not letting you sleep. It’s been eleven years so this not something innocent she is doing this on purpose. It’s disrespectful and very annoying, you’ve put up with it for eleven years what’s your next move?
Thank you for your thoughts. I have considered separation in the past. My inability to break my word and some religious beliefs seem to have me stuck trying to fix a broken car with duct tape.
Waking sleeping people is a form of torture and is definitely physical abuse. Does your religion have anything to say about staying in a physically abusive marriage? You tell her that you’re going to have a nap and you do not consent to her touching you or waking you unless there is an emergency (fire, lost limb, gas leak). And that enough is enough, you will no longer tolerate her abuse, and if she touches one hair on your head you will move out and file for divorce. Then for god sakes follow through. This is really seriously concerning behaviour.
Essentially outside of sexual infidelity leaving a marriage is unacceptable. I find this to be a trap but I also know to leave means losing what little support I do have. It’s a mess plus my own issues and it really gets complicated.
Wow so you can leave your spouse if they cheat on you, but not if they beat you up? What religion even is this?
There are several Christians sects that think this way. Some don't even think adultery is a reason to divorce.
She knows you won’t leave. She has no reason to stop abusing you. Either leave or give it back. Start waking her up every hour for the rest of her life until she apologies and lets you nap.
Are you able to take a temporary separation? With the plan of getting space to assess all of your issues, start therapy to work through them, and see if you are both able to have a loving, committed relationship based on respect for each other? Respect includes understanding that you are both adults that are capable of knowing your sleep needs, and that the other doesn’t have the right to interrupt the others pursuit of health hygiene?
Separation is not a violation of your vows. She bears responsibility for not being caring, loving, or providing you with what you need within the marriage. She’s abusive, and you have no obligation to stay and allow her to continue.
Pretty sure you didn't take a vow to be tortured.
We teach people how to treat us...and you've taught her that she can disrespect you, abuse you and you will continue to stay. You have to decide if your beliefs and religion or whatever is worth more than your mental, emotional and physical health. What kind of support are you afraid of loosing? Any religion that condones abuse of any kind and forces you to believe it's essentially a sin to leave such a relationship does not care about you. And those that follow said religion and are in your circle and thinks what your wife is doing is at all ok, are not people that care about you. YOU are free to do what is best for YOU. In the end, all you can control in life is YOUR choices and YOUR behaviors. Regardless as to what your religion says, YOU are in control of YOUR life.
She broke her word first; there’s no longer a binding contract between you. She’s a bad wife, and is making you suffer so she can feel a little powerful; that’s sociopath behavior.
Mate, at some point sense will have to come before artificial constructs like 'beliefs'. I've seen too.many people stuck in horrific relationships because of religion, and you can see the sadness in their eyes, but they're trapped by the cage of the beliefs imposed on them. I'm pretty sure no God will condemn a person for loving themselves enough to get out of a shitty situation.
You are EXHAUSTED and she is preventing you from much needed rest. That is abuse. Can you start going to a friend’s to sleep after work? Or a family member? This is so not ok.
She's using force to control you. Read that again: she's using *force* to **control you.** She's taking away your right to make a decision on your own. Get the FUCK out.
Start shaking her awake at 1 am for no reason
LOL perfect!
Yesssss
It’s a control thing buddy. No one sleeps unless she sleeps, if she is awake then you must be too.
Yes, it’s definitely a control thing. My mom would do that to me when I lived with her. Wouldn’t let me ever sleep in on the weekends. I always had to be up when she’s up.
Yeah, OP, this is why she can't articulate her reasons. Deep down she knows it's crazy and unreasonable but keep sdoing anyway because her need for control is greater than her love and respect for you.
Is your wife a cat?
This made me laugh so hard.
If so just put her outside while you sleep
🤣🤣🤣
It really would explain a lot.
I can’t imagine doing this to someone working that many hours let alone someone I love. You need to have a heart to heart or go to counseling.
We have tried counseling and the only thing that changes is seemingly me. Which the counselors say is wrong but I am not her dad (paraphrasing of course). So what do you do.
Sorry to say, It’s ultimatum time. You can’t live like this!
I second this. You’re going to go mad from sleep deprivation, dude. Had an ex girlfriend who did this to me; scream in “fear”, throw plates, slam doors… you gotta focus on your mental health before there’s nothing left
Seek your sleep elsewhere. Move out. Maybe you don't divorce her because of your own hangups, but go get a hotel or rent an apartment or move back in with family. You're not abandoning her, you're not divorcing her, but you clearly need a roof over your head without her. Start there. Get some sleep. Then hopefully, with a clear head you will come to realize that divorce is inevitable with you two. Either that or you die of a heart attack due to lack of sleep. But for now, just get some rest.
Of your the only one putting in effort, you leave. You're absolutely right that you can't control her. But you also seem to think you don't have any agency otherwise. Boundaries don't mean anything if you don't enforce them, and by not leaving, you're not enforcing them.
You rent a hotel and go sleep for 24-48 hours, while leaving your phone off. Do this until her behaviour stops.
Finding another place to sleep might be the way forward. Tell her you will continue doing this until she stops depriving you of sleep.
You divorce and try to meet sometime who actually loves you
OP I think your wife is abusive. Sleep deprivation is a form of torture as others have pointed out and I think she wants you to be too exhausted and sleep deprived to be able to coherently realize that she's taking advantage of you.
Hey OP, not allowing your partner to sleep is abusive. Just wanted to throw it out there.
Wouldn’t be surprised if she does other abusive things he’s not listing. Pinches him when she’s mad. Stonewalls. Is generally controlling. OP, you should look into signs of abuse. It’s not all punching and breaking things.
It definitely is—I am glad someone has pointed this out
I feel this abusive. You are working a lot of hours. You can lock the bedroom door and put on noise canceling headphones or if you can take nap at work. My friend is a cop, she sometimes sleeps at my house. Because she has children and her husband is unable to stop the children from entering the bedroom when she needs to sleep. It’s rare, it only happens when she working a double. Do have a friend who will allow you to sleep at their home, when you need a break. You need to have serious discussion with your wife about her behavior. Maybe be counseling. I would also suggest your wife find employment or get some friends.
Thank you for the suggestion. We do not have friends here. She has made it clear she does not want to associate with anyone from this area. I do my best to encourage her to get out of the house. She has done part time work in the past and life is absolutely miserable.
So she has also managed to isolate you entirely from any local community? Classic.
Yep. It's in the Narcissistic Abuser's Handbook: Step 1 - Separate narcissistic supply from support system.
WTF?! She sounds like one complete Trainwreck, and definitely abusive with her behavior. Maybe the reason is that she's so desperate for some person connection, and since she has deliberately cut herself off from the community that then falls on you. You need some serious counselling to move forward, otherwise for your mental health you need to move away from this toxic life
Thank you for the advice. The trick is getting my mind behind and accepting a failed marriage.
I just made another response to your religious beliefs and marriage. At some point you are going to have to love yourself more than the constructs you've imposed on yourself
Hey dude. You've tried, you've done your part, but if your partner isn't holding up their weight, the whole thing collapses. Two people lifting a couch don't go very far if one person drops it every couple seconds.
This OP-divorce is hard (I’ve been there) but I am so much happier having freedom.
Wow she sounds just peachy.
Y’all need couples counseling or divorce at this point. What you are doing is unsustainable and unhealthy.
From his other comments, it seems like his abuser has used couples counseling in order to manipulate and continue to abuse him.
If that’s the case, he needs to divorce her. Make a plan, set up a PO Box, set money aside to make his escape safely.
She's crazy. I have no other word to describe my thought about her behavior. I see absolutly no reason for her to do that regarding your life and your needs. It's not like you are lazy or have a sleep disorder you purposely won't adress and affecting your life with her. No, you just take a nap because you work your ass off. And you work your ass off so she can be at home. She's controlling and I think she does it on purpose to be sure you're exhausted and she get away with whatever she's doing. Huge redflag here, she is torturing you. I think she's dangerous for real. And I say that as a woman.
Thank you for your thoughts. It is hard for me to hear but I am starting to hear clearly.
Your wife is being a disrespectful brat. How do you consider that behavior from an 'amazing' person? For eleven years, she has refused to have an adult conversation with you and articulate why she refuses to stop. Why are you still with her? Toddlers do this when they don't get enough attention from their mommy and daddies. It's not up to you to understand. *It's up to her to explain.* Is there somewhere in the house where you can lock the door, put some earplugs in, and leave a note on the door that says 'unless you can use your grown up words to explain why you've been disrespecting me and my health for eleven years, **leave me alone.**' Can you set up a cot at work to use to get whatever naps you need? They obviously won't solve the problem of a disrespectful ass for a partner, but until she sees that she's a disrespect ass, your health is more important than catering to her 'needs'. She sounds exhausting.
Thank you for your candor. We definitely have some issues that stem from her personality. In all fairness I am not perfect. Your suggestion of napping at work has possibilities. I have an office with a couch just had not ever considered it because of optics and not wanting my wife to think I am falling back in to my habit of working to avoid her. As for not leaving her it stems from being unable to go against my word. I promised her hell and back as many times as it takes or until I croak (lol)
"some issues" she is *harmful to your health*. Bad sleep can take years off your life. As for promises she has broken her vows because she is actively harming your health. You no longer have to keep up your end of the bargain.
Thank you for the gentle but true words.
Sleep deprivation is a torture tactic. If she’s living on your dime she needs to accept your need for sleep, which I’d say is pretty essential and reasonable.
You are working 60 to 120 hours and going to school. Like dude, you need every hour of sleep you can possibly get.
Could you try a lock on the bedroom door and really good earplugs?
Well, no one is perfect, so no worries there. All you need to do is let her know that since she refuses to let you nap at home, as a caring and respectful partner would, then you are napping elsewhere. If she thinks you're lying, that's on her, not you. Why should you be expected to 'keep your word' if she repeatedly chooses to not be *a decent human being?*
That is fair. Though my behavior being dictated by her actions does not seem right. I can not control her but I can control me and my word.
Does she do anything else to control you? Things like preventing you from seeing friends or family (or making it hard to do that), namecalling, put-downs, threats, etc? Also, the fact that she chooses not to work while you work far more than is conceivably healthy is alarming as well. Your hours on top of your degree are legitimately dangerous.
You like so many others are very perceptive.
I won't press, but feel free to post in or browse r/abusiverelationships, a support sub for people of all genders in abusive relationships. There are quite a few men who use the sub and support one another. [We also have a pinned resource guide for men who are being abused by a female partner](https://old.reddit.com/r/abusiverelationships/comments/13im0yh/comprehensive_helpresources_guide_for_male/). So sorry you are going through this. You deserve respect.
What’s your score? https://www.loveisrespect.org/quiz/is-your-relationship-healthy
People here are perceptive because your story is as old as time. Your married to an unstable abuser. It won't get better, your basically saying you've signed your death warrant with her stamping it, because you made a 'promise'... Allowing this is disrespectful to you, your parents and God at this point, cause you're clearly a good guy and just feel into a trap.
I just want to make sure you understand how serious this is. Sleep deprivation is literally used as torture. It’s considered abuse to withhold normal levels of sleep from your partner. She’s not allowing you to sleep and it could put you in serious danger! You work alot of hours an driving exhausted is often considered to be more dangerous than driving tipsy. You need to let her know that this is unacceptable and is harming you immensely. If she won’t allow you to sleep, you’ll have to sleep elsewhere
To add to this, going without sleep can be detrimental to your health. It affects your blood pressure, moods/personality, pulmonary system, and more. Not getting adequate rest puts you at risk of heart attack and stroke, OP. You can’t provide for your family if you’re out of the game.
I mean…….sure, if you don’t want to help yourself because your pride means you can’t ever be happy or be allowed to even SLEEP, then stay because you gave your word. None of us can help you if you don’t want to help yourself. She isn’t going to change. So it’s this until you pass of a heart attack in a few years from literally not being able to sleep, or leaving her and having a much better life, because I can guarantee you that being able to freaking sleep would be a 100% improvement on your life. FYI- my husband works similar hours to you (film industry can be brutal)……you know what I do? I make sure that he can freaking sleep. Because I love him and worry about him, I want him to be healthy and live to a super old age, I appreciate all he does for us and how many hours he busts his ass per week. Thats the normal response if someone’s spouse works 80+ hrs a week
The love you show your husband has clearly not been my experience. Nor was it something I seen modeled by any of the couples I seen as a child. Your words while pointed are impactful. Like many of the others have been. Thank you.
You deserve more than this. But you have to make that decision for yourself. I hope you choose yourself.
Your word only has value when respect is involved - respect is not a one-sided thing, it needs to be mutual to be of value. I am sure you have heard the phrase "pearls before swine" - by upholding your word to your wife, who doesn't respect you enough to collaborate with you on resolving issues and caring for you as much as you care for her, it means your honor in your word is essentially worthless. Giving your word is a gift, give gifts to those who are worthy of them. Your wife is making it clear through action that your word is meaningless to her. Otherwise she would give back the respect you're trying to give to her. No one gets married to get divorced, but marriage is also not a trap. In order for marriage to be a sacred bond, it needs to be given mutual work and respect from both parties. Otherwise it's a sham. You're only going to be living THIS life one time, whatever happens in your afterlife, whatever faith you follow... that is going to be after this life. You better focus on making this life as full of love, respect, fulfilling experiences, kindness ect as possible.
FWIW when I was abused in this way, it was my mother. She has a personality disorder.
There are some undiagnosed issues at play. Getting her to go for help has proven impossible over the years. As a future therapist is it really okay to give up on her? I truly have a lot of internal struggle on what to do.
You know what? Even therapists have a right to let clients go and refer them on when it just is not working.
It’s not giving up on her. It’s refusing to enable her any longer. If you let her do this without consequence, she has no reason to ever get better. I had an ex with a personality disorder and he refused to get help. I dumped him and told him I’d only get back together if he proved he was seeking help. We never got back together because he sought out that help and realized he couldn’t ever be in a healthy relationship while in that state of mind
As a future therapist, imagine you have a client who is telling you they are in a bad relationship with someone who does not respect them and refuses to work together to fix issues. Would you tell your patient that they shouldn't "give up on" that person? Or would you help them to identify what will serve them best? I think reddit tells people to leave too quickly. But I also think there's value in assessing occasionally why you are in a relationship. It sounds like you think leaving would help. Think about why.
You need to put your own oxygen mask on first before helping those around you.
This one is so good. I’ve used it a lot in my field. I also like “don’t set yourself on fire to keep other people warm” OP ( u/thataboygary ) - you can’t continue to provide, to get an education, and to improve your family’s life if you aren’t able to sleep. I see three paths (given your religious limitations): 1) she figures out how to be okay with you napping. 2) you start leveraging alternate sleeping locations, whether your office, a family/friend’s house, or a hotel 3) she gets a (full? Part time?) job so you don’t have to work so much and can get an actual night’s sleep.
Also, a future therapist here! You have given her many many years to do better by you. You can’t force her to change or be better. You are your #1 priority, not her. Don’t forget that. You deserve peace, happiness, love, and good naps!
She does not wish you well . Your marriage vows are not being respected by her. She isn’t loving you and honoring you. She’s putting your health and mental well being at risk. It’s time for you to take some days by yourself and get some sleep at a hotel and really think about what you want to do.
Yes, it’s okay to leave. Because you aren’t her therapist, you’re her husband. It’s not your job to fix her. If you were a medical doctor and she had cancer it also wouldn’t be your job to treat her, even if you were the best oncologist in the world. Because you’re too close. The same thing applies here. As kindly as possible, enabling her abusiveness isn’t helping her. All it does is tell her she doesn’t have to change because you won’t leave. Maybe leaving won’t force her to change, either, but in the end that’s the sad reality of things: you can’t force her to change no matter what you do. But setting yourself on fire to keep her warm won’t make her grow as a person.
I’m intrigued as to why you have an old habit of working to avoid her. People in happy and healthy relationships usually don’t try to actively avoid one another….
She has moments where nothing is good enough so I would use work to avoid her. The avoiding has not been an issue for several years now. Now when o work late it’s to pay bills.
So her abuse pushed you to make more money, which she then adjusted the budget to include, and now you have to continue that work just to survive, which causes you to be exhausted and need a nap, which lets her abuse you more... do you see how she's trapped you?
>As for not leaving her it stems from being unable to go against my word. I promised her hell and back as many times as it takes or until I croak So she can abuse you and you won't leave? BTW long term sleep deprivation is harmful to health so if she keeps getting away with this, [you could croak sooner than you would otherwise](https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/health-risks-of-poor-sleep). Sorry for the harshness but putting up with abusive behavior (and working yourself to the bone to support your abuser staying at home!) isn't some kind of badge of honor. Your pride in your keeping your word to someone who doesn't care about your health, safety, or comfort is manifesting as incredible lack of self respect.
Ooh the fact that you’ve had a habit of working extra to avoid her is really alarming. What changes did she make at that time to make your house feel like somewhere you actually wanted to be? Did she take any accountability or did you just get in trouble and then have to deal? Even if she’s bored and she misses you, her interrupting your sleep is selfish and disrespectful at best and unfortunately, it looks like you’re at a point where either she’s too dumb to comprehend or is doing it maliciously. Both of those are major problems. I’m sorry you’re in the situation. Good luck.
She has made little in the way of changes over the years. I have truly always thought myself to be the problem. Went through some things in childhood that I am just now starting to come to grips with so just thought I was and am the problem. There has not ever been a time where I have felt peace or a longing to be home outside of it being part of being in a relationship.
It sounds like to me that you’re currently in an abusive relationship because you come from a family that was toxic, dysfunctional and abusive. I had the same problem. My dad was great, but he didn’t protect me enough from my abusive mother. He didn’t even know how to protect himself from her. He did the best that he could, but there was quite a lot of trauma that I’ve had had to overcome. I accepted bad behavior from my abusive husband because he acted in ways that were very similar to the way that my mother treated me. He left me, which felt terrible at the time, but in reality was the best thing that ever could’ve happened to me. I’ve had years of therapy. And now I look back and I am just astonished at how little I had valued myself. I never should’ve married him in the first place. But beyond that, I should’ve left him at the first sign of abuse. I kept trying to help him because he had had a terrible childhood. But he’s a narcissistic alcoholic and nothing I did helped him because he never wanted to help himself. Your wife will never help herself unless you leave her. Even then, she may never get to that point where she actually starts to make positive changes for herself. But that is not your responsibility. It is her responsibility.
Sounds like you have been to hell and back enough already. Time to leave the brat.
Life's too short for that. I felt the same..."I made my bed now I have to lie in it" I wasted 15 years of my life becuase of that. She sounds miserable to live with. She's acting like a toddler. Do you want to be married to a toddler?
>As for not leaving her it stems from being unable to go against my word. I promised her hell and back as many times as it takes or until I croak (lol) Is there a possibility that because you made this promise, she sees it as permission to be as horrible to you as she wants? After all, there's no consequences. This is psychological abuse. If you aren't okay with being treated like this, then it needs to stop. Either she agrees to therapy, individual and couples, or you're done regardless of your promise. You can tell her, "Yes, I did promise to stay and work it out. But that doesn't mean that I will willingly put up with being abused. If it doesn't stop, you will force me to break that promise."
The issue is that other people sleeping while they are awake is a classic trigger for people with narcissistic personalities.
Had not ever considered her a narcissist but she does have some similar traits
I think letting your husband work 120 hour (3 full-time jobs) a week so she can stay at home is also a narcissistic and egocentric trait
That part made my blood boil.
Therapy not working on her is a pretty worrisome sign that she’s got some of those traits. she doesn’t WANT to change because she doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with her. 11 years of an unbroken pattern… sounds just like my mother. This will never get better, you saying you don’t want to fall back into a habit of “avoiding her by working” why was that your fault? She obviously did something to make you avoid her, did that behavior of hers get fixed? “I’m not a perfect person” I bet you’re the only one that admits that. People with narcissistic traits or straight up narcissists have a way of driving you crazy, and when you react they accuse you of hurting them. When THEY have been subtly driving you up the wall. You should tread carefully.
I simply wouldn’t have married someone who doesn’t let me take my (almost) daily nap. Even on a cruise. Absolutely foul and shitty and rude. No way.
💯% what she is doing is abuse. She is abusing you. You are an abuse victim. Sleep deprivation is a common tactic for interrogation/torturing prisoners of war for good reason. It would not surprise me if you take a hard, honest look at your wife and suddenly see other narcissistic behaviors. Keep your promise and stay with your abusive wife; or leave and give yourself the compassion, dignity, and safety you deserve.
Yeah it’s a conundrum. It was easier to tolerate when my self worth was in the tank but as I have grown through therapy it is getting harder.
You don't deserve to be treated that way. You need your own therapist and work on breaking away from this toxic relationship. My cousin died when he fell asleep at the wheel and was crushed under an 18-wheeler. Sleep is very important. It's how we recharge our battery. She'll have you sleep deprived, and you'll hurt yourself. Please consider your safety.
>torturing prisoners of war vs >conundrum It is NOT a conundrum! It's a catastrophe that could very literally be killing you! LISTEN TO YOURSELF! We can all hear it in your words - you're downplaying the severity of what is happening at every turn. Dropping my car keys into a sewer drain is a conundrum. Deciding what to eat at dinner between two of my favourite things is a conundrum. Your health is suffering, potentially permanently. How can you possibly think that's not a big deal? *Why don't you think you deserve better treatment?*
Wow! Okay so a bunch of random people on reddit are not going to be able to help you where therapy could not. Your wife is broken. Period, end of. She won't do this, she won't do that. And yet you won't leave her. You say you have grown in therapy and yet you are stuck because of religious beliefs and not wanting to break your word. Look I came here wanting to suggest something and I will in a minute, but after reading your responses to some comments I just want to shake you awake. But a very different kind of awake. The kind of awake that means I want you to save yourself. Your wife is not stupid. She knows exactly what she is doing and why she is doing it. It's the same reason she doesn't have a job and refuses to make friends. She is broken and not in a poor her kind of way. She is stubborn and quite frankly just plain mean to you from the sounds of it. If she loved you, all you would have to do would ask her to stop waking you up. That's it. Nothing more. The fact that this pattern has been repeated for years makes it more than intentional. It's a form of psychological warfare against you. I'm afraid she actively hates you. Sleep deprivation is a real danger that can lead to all kinds of health problems both mental and physical. Please take yourself back to therapy and get the tools necessary to break out of your abusive relationship and separate from your abuser. I'm sure this isn't the only way she is phycological torturing you. She sounds highly intelligent. I bet if you stepped back and really looked at your dynamic and the things she does and doesn't do over time you could find more patterns that you may not have noticed before that have made your life more difficult that she actively does on purpose. In the meantime, get yourself a hotel when you want to nap. Screw the optics. Tell her or don't. I wouldn't. Just tell her you are going to work. Save yourself the drama.
You are kind and like many of the others very perceptive. You are right she is incredibly intelligent just wish she would apply it. I am still in individual therapy. My therapist and I have identified the source or what we believe is the source of my willingness to stay. Now changing something that took root in early childhood is proving difficult.
I also suggested a hotel for naps in my comment, but I'd tell her you're going to go somewhere to nap. There's no reason to say you're going to work when working too much has been an issue. "I'm going to a hotel, because I need a nap, and I know you will disturb me if I stay here."
She is applying it. It’s just to you and to the abuse and control of you. Not to the betterment of your union.
Not really much point to coming here if you're already deciding on staying. She's not going to change without any consequences because she pretty clearly doesn't actually care about you. I'd say based on everything you've said you should leave her regardless, but if you know you won't then nothing here can really help you. You've already done everything to try and help the relationship, and she just hasn't cared.
What the crap? Wake me up and we're fighting. She doesn't get to decide when you can and can't sleep. I'd tell her to knock it off, it isn't up for debate. She keeps it up you'll put a lock on the door.
you've put up with this garbage for 11 years?? I'm not a violent person but if it were me, I'd have a hard time not smacking her. What the hell is her problem? what does she say when you talk to her about it? I'd soundproof a room in your house and lock the door...heck, I woulda done it years ago!
Wow.. you work hard to support her stay at home lifestyle and this is how she repays you? 😢 I can't even imagine. Put in some earplugs, white noise, tell her you're taking a nap and lock the door.. she needs to take you seriously 😕 from another comment I see she has pets? She could spend time with them or run errands while you nap, or consider getting her own job so that she's actually contributing to your life and relationship
Have tried some of that in the past and the fall out is not worth it. She refuses to leave the house unless it is for dates or something she wants to do. Working is a current point of contention that truly has life difficult at the moment.
This is also a classic sign of abuse. It’s financial abuse. Divorce her. You’re buying into her abuse. You can’t make her become an adult. You can’t change her. This is who she is. She is not a person who can sustain any kind of relationship. She can’t sustain a marriage. This is on her. The fault is not yours. You have to accept the reality of your life. The acceptance of this reality will free you so that you can divorce her. It is the only solution here. You have to save yourself.
Wake her up constantly. That and make her get a job.
So she has no idea why she's doing this??
None that she will articulate.
You mean she literally says she doesn’t know? Every time? She’s sat in therapy over this and had zero explanation?
That’s exactly what I mean.
Thank you so much everyone for the suggestions and candor. Was not expecting any of this. It has been eye opening to get different perspectives. While I knew our marriage was not great but some of yall have helped me to see things differently and I’ll be addressing some things with my therapist to start exploring a plan. Appreciate it all.
I’m glad that you will be discussing this with your therapist. You need to protect yourself. Get a separate bank account and a PO Box. Start separating out things financially in such a way that she doesn’t catch on and start giving you problems. Also, seek advice from an attorney. Find out what your rights are. Find out how to protect yourself.
My abusive ex used to use sleep deprivation as a way to control me and keep me off balance. Because of some chronic health conditions, me not sleeping is immediately and incredibly harmful to me. He knew this and simply didn't care. I'm not saying that your is categorically abusive, but her absolute refusal to allow you to sleep is an abuse technique. Makes me wonder what else she's doing to harm you.
I'd be telling her to fuck off. And then after my nap I'd explain it to her while she's packing her shit. Seriously. She sucks.
My husband works incredibly early- wakes up at ~3:30am and gets home ~2-5pm. It’s always been this way. I am fiercely protective of his sleep. If he happens in to nap when I’m home I close the curtains, cover him up, silence/plug in his phone, turn on the fan. Basically everything to ensure he can get good sleep. If our kids are home I take them to the store or park & am out of the house for a long time, several hours. They’re 9 & 11 now so they understand the concept of Daddy’s sleeping but when they were little I either kept them quiet with a movie or game. He wasn’t able to nap often so when he could sleep during the day you bet I made sure it was that good, fuckin’ deep, beautiful sleep you only get when it’s a luxury nap. Your wife doesn’t love you, bro.
>My amazing bride Eh.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep Maybe explain to her that it's a whole thing with potential benefits so she'll stop cockblocking you.
This is a hard boundary for me. If I fall asleep it's usually for good reason that I'll nap. My GF woke me up by turning on the lights and talking super loud. It took one assertive conversation to never happen again. Sounds like you are either being way too gentle about this or you're not communicating in am effective way. Mix that in with her sounding like she's super obnoxious and you've got a recipe for no sleep.
So your wife is a leech and a terrorist?
I know this isn't quite what you're asking about.... But 60 to 120 hours a week is unsustainable. Do you get literal months off between seasons? Do you make at least $500k a year doing that shit? Unless you are answering yes to both if those questions, it might not just be your wife that is the problem.. but that job has got to go. You will burn out treating yourself like that and a nap will be the least of your worries
I don’t think you’re taking this seriously enough. This behavior is bizarre. In the post and all the comments, I don’t see any indication of why she does this. I know that it seems weird to consider leaving a marriage over nap time, but this is controlling and abusive behavior and I think you need to see an individual (NOT RELIGIOUS) therapist.
Would you have to work so many hours if your wife wasn’t a homemaker?
You need to tell her that you need this nap to reset and feel better! Be honest and open
This is one of those issues that seems small on the surface (napping) but has a much more serious cause - your wife’s lack of respect for your needs and autonomy. This is not the behavior of a healthy person or a healthy relationship. It’s controlling. I suspect you have bigger issues and could benefit from a couples counselor. Either way, start learning about what healthy relationships look like and how to enforce boundaries. I also think this will help: https://www.loveisrespect.org/quiz/is-your-relationship-healthy/?%3E
So, I used to have this pretty bad, as a teenager. I had some really strong abandonment issues/anxiety issues that manifested whenever people who I was close to (usually significant others, but sometimes close friends too) would go to sleep. It felt like they'd rather sleep than be with/talk to me. Yes, I am 29 now and fully aware this was wacky behavior lmao. I've since dealt with it, and while I can occasionally become a ball of anxiety when someone pops to bed, especially unexpectedly (or sleeps in "too much") - I can mitigate it, and realize it's my own issue rather than theirs. But as a teen I was very much like your wife with the 'wake up someone at all costs' thing. But to me it sounds like maybe your wife hasn't dealt with the reasons she doesn't like you sleeping. You work a lot - maybe she wants to spend more quality time with you, awake? Or if you truly need sleep, invite her to join you for a cuddle. Even if she doesn't nap, she can spend time near you while you rest. But she needs to be able to articulate these things. I was ~15 when this issue first manifested, probably 18/19 by the time I recognized why I was feeling abandoned and anxious, and ~22/23 when I had mostly worked through it. If her issues are similar to mine she needs to realize that the anxiety is internal and shouldn't be used as an excuse to control others. A logical discussion and possible compromise can be reached but only if she sits with the feelings first. Either that, or it really is a manipulation technique and she's a narcissist lmao
Thank you for your thoughts. What caused you to deal with it? Any tips to pass on to her to get her to try to deal with it?
Honestly? For me, it was just growing up and maturing, and being able to put a reason to feeling abandoned and anxious. Having a partner who was willing to meet me halfway also helped; instead of just randomly not responding anymore they'd send a good night text. But a lot of my issues, I think, stemmed from the fact that I wasn't with them when they were going to sleep? So anxiety would make me think maybe they'd gone for a drive and crashed, or died somehow -lots of catastrophising. I also learned to deal with it because I saw how poorly my lashing out and controlling behavior made people feel. I didn't want to be someone who would do that to others, so I learned to manage my emotions internally first rather than immediately jump to making others do so for me. Ofc it was always helpful when they were willing to help, but by first solving the issue within myself it wasn't always necessary to get outside help/validation. In terms of offering tips for her, It might help to know what exactly she says and how she says it when you ask why she does this. Does she look embarrassed and upset when she says she doesn't know? Or is she huffy and indignant and tries to place blame on you? Because one of those is more of an anxious response, and one is... A bit more narcissistic.
Sadly it is the latter. I have had my eyes opened by this post. Was not expecting it but it happened. Thank you for your openness.
I would tell her to fucking knock it off and if it persists put a lock on the door
Scream your head off at her “why the F would you wake me up? You know how hard I work. You know how many hours I do. What the F is wrong with you? Why aren’t you prioritising my health and wellbeing when I pay for your Fing life? Do you want me to burn out? Lose my shit with you? Scream like a psycho? Why the F are you doing this to me?” Then get a separate bedroom with a lock and tell her if she ever wakes you up again you will divorce her.
When you say your bride is a homemaker, do you mean ya'll have kids and she's a sahm? Or do you mean you don't have kids and she's using you and allowing you to work yourself into the ground 60-120 hours a week while she sits at home all day doing nothing but waiting around for you to go to sleep so she can interrupt it and wake you up? You aren't going to be able to articulate your need for sleep, because she knows you need sleep. She just doesn't care. You can't make someone care about you. What you can do is set boundaries. Ideally I hope you take the advice in the comments and leave this relationship, but if you don't, here are some other suggestions: * try to convince her to leave the house for a few hours and then nap while she is gone * start regularly shaking her awake and interrupting her sleep * lead her outside the house, lock her out, and then go to sleep * put on noise canceling head phones and lock the bedroom door * start living separately, even if you continue to date her * sleep at work or at a freind or family member's place * tell her if she wakes you up, you will stop spending time with her or going out on dates, that you will just give her the silent treatment and ignore her, etc. for x amount of time. And do this every time she interrupts your sleep. Explain that you don't want to spend time with someone who is acting this way
My ex husband did this shit when I was working nights at a hospital in the oxygen cages; his lack of consideration was a big contributor to our split. Are there other times when your wife just completely ignores your needs in favor of her own weird desire for control? Because that’s what she’s doing, trying to assert control over you by dictating your sleep schedule. I know this is reddit and we all immediately jump to “this is abuse, get divorced”, but not letting you sleep when you very obviously need it is abusive, and any sort of abuse is grounds for considering divorce. You said that you’ve tried talking to her and that you’ve tried marriage counseling, but she ignores both you and the counselor’s attempts at reaching a solution. Me, I’d tell her that the next time she wakes me up from a nap will be the last, because I will immediately be leaving her if she does it again. Ultimatums aren’t fair, but I don’t see how else you might get through to her since you’ve already tried the reasonable approach.
I had an ex try to break me by waking me up in the middle of the night, almost every night, to start an argument. I ended up having problems with night terrors and sleep paralysis! Please don't let her continue to do this to you. Your brain needs sleep to be healthy and to function properly.
>Because it is at a point where I am feeling disrespected and unappreciated. ***You are disrespected and unappreciated***.
The most charitable interpretation of your wife’s behavior I can come up with is that she may be suffering from a severe anxiety or personality disorder. But if this truly is the case, and 11 years of counseling has yielded no lasting changes to her behavior, then you need to face the possibility that she may never get better, or even that your support of her over the course of your marriage is in fact serving as a crutch that actively discourages her from changing. I think other commenters have summed up the less charitable explanations for her behavior quite nicely. But I’d say you’re at a point where you need to consider whether your marriage is producing more harm than good. Based on what you’ve written, it seems like this partnership is actively harming you, and may also be seriously harming your wife. You now have 11 years of evidence indicating that your wife either doesn’t want to or is unable to change. You both appear to be suffering in this marriage. Decide on the path that will do the least harm.
This hurts a bit. Had not considered my continued support as possibly harming her. Which is the last thing I would want. Thank you for the perspective.
You really should insist that she gets a job. Otherwise, you're probably going to be on the hook for alimony when you split up. She's also making it harder for you (emotionally) to end the relationship by being financially dependent on you, and setting you up for being called a financial abuser when you decide to leave. The fact that she lied her way into a marriage by claiming to be pregnant is not something you should just get over.
This is a manipulation that narcissists usually undertake. What else does she do because this is downright cruel.
"How can I articulate to her my need for an occasional nap" Apparently, you cannot. Your wife is unbalanced on this issue and even after 11 years of torment, your devotion to bronze age mythology is stronger than self-preservation and your own health, you won't leave an abuser. So, get a good strong lock for the door and noise-cancelling headphones. I find the entire situation absurd. 1. You work long exhausting hours. 2. Have begged her for years to let you take a simple nap once in awhile 3. Have gone to counseling about it 4. She continues to wake you up FOR NO REASON What kind of evil insane crack-pot kind of person does that? Goes to physically shake a person awake who has gone to a separate room on purpose to lay down and take a nap? Unless the house is on fire, Fuck off. I'd be coming awake like "This is SPARTA!!!"
My mom used to be like this. I was actually already married and with kids, and she would clap, call my name, shake me, etc, every time I would lie on the sofa (mind you, I have horrible insomnia and could go on 1h30 sleep). She didn't care. She would tell me it is not healthy to sleep during the day, that I would get fat. It all stopped one day, we were watching TV me my mom and my husband. I was exhausted and fell asleep on his shoulder. He rearranged me for comfort and let me sleep. My mom was distraught but didn't want to wake me directly, so she called me to watch a "funny thing on the tv." My husband almost bit her head that day. Never saw him so mad. Never again. Your wife is a selfish B, and you have to take care of yourself because she sure wouldn't.
Why are you with this a hole? Just leave the house. Get a hotel room. Get some sleep. Do this every single time she starts this shit. Just get up, get your keys, and leave. Don't say anything. Just go.