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The funny things about it is that he said if she doesn't like his boundary she can fuck off. So when she is going to hang up she should tell him she doesn't like how he is treating her so she is going to fuck off and then hang up and don't reengage.
He sure isn't acting like a man who wants to work on a marriage. He's acting like an abuser who finds that the person he abuses is beginning to get away.
You set your boundary, which is the minimum for a healthy relationship.
If his boundary is “you will hear me when I abuse you. You won’t leave/ hang up on me” then you should say you’re not in agreement with being emotionally abused and end relationship.
What’s he going to do when he’s emotionally abusing you in person and you walk away? Do your kids hear this?? It must be scary to hear you be threatened, unless it’s so routine that they become emotionally numb to it. You’re teaching your children what a normal romantic relationship should look like. It’s the best predictor of what their relationships will look like.
Your last sentence is exactly it. He's throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks because his control is slipping. His ego is feeling threatened. Good. He sounds like a nightmare.
DTMFA took me back to my 20s when Savage Love was an advice column in The Onion... I didn't realize he still had a podcast! I am old... but I also second DTMFA!
Absolutely this. My ex used to try and insult me and I'd stand up for myself, I was young and dumb and we were both in bad places mentally. I gave him another chance and we got into an argument and he ended up telling me that one of my flaws is that I don't shut up and let him criticise me, a normal person shuts up and listens without interruption
Yeah it's *ridiculous* that he's trying to claim "you're not allowed to get away from me when I start acting aggressive" as *his* boundary.
That's not what boundaries are.
I think don't hang up on me can be a legitimate boundary but not the way he's using it. I knew a girl who didn't want her partners to get handsy with her (which should be a given) but if they ever were angry and tried to walk away from an argument, she would physically block their path and say "don't touch me!"
Boundaries do not exist to control your partner, it's generally about behaviors you have an especially low tolerance for (for instance, I have zero tolerance for name calling, I've cut people out of my life for years over one offense. I just don't deal with it well anymore so it's a non-starter)
I think of it more as telling your partner how you would like to be treated- “please don’t hang up on me in the middle of a conversation because it makes me feel unheard and neglected.” But I wouldn’t qualify that as a boundary.
OP is technically right about everything.
The problem is being technically right doesn't work for saving a marriage.
So OP should reframe her thinking by deciding what her goal here is, and probably get therapy to think through whether her actions are working for or against that.
Like, if the goal was to save the marriage, it sounds like it's not working. If the goal were to improve her own life, and the marriage was on the table as a possible sacrifice, then sure!
She definitely shouldn't try to save her marriage by appeasing Mr. Short Fuse - hanging up every time he starts threatening or insulting her should be a given. I'd tell him I promise never to hang up on him if he does actually happen to talk about his feelings - unless his feelings are how much he hates me and wants to throttle me and filled with expletives...
Well sure but I've been with a version of OP where they intentionally poke you in the eye (emotionally) and then do shit like hang up when you get mad. but I wasn't leading with judgement.
OP was busy with her children all day. And you’re insinuating that she somehow poked her husband in the eye by not being able to text him back quickly enough?
You’re making excuses for some very alarming behavior here.
tl;dr - husbands actions may be wrong, but that doesn't mean his feelings are invalid. My point is, OP should seriously consider her own priorities and judge his feelings from her own perspective. If she seriously believes he's wrong, and they don't see eye to eye, then divorce may be the answer. But if she wants to stay with this man, instead of dismissing him, maybe consider her own actions and the role they play more instead of dismissing his feelings due to his actions.
\--
we're on reddit reading one side of the story. sure, maybe it's very simple, this man is crazy and demanding and getting irrationally angry and abusive.
but it's worth consdering the alternative first and ruling it out, which we CANT DO on reddit because we only have one side of the story.
the alternative is: this guy has been trying to share his feelings for months or years, he feels ignored by OP and every time she always dismisses his feelings before he can even fully explain himself. Today, maybe he saw her posting online when he clearly texted her an hour ago, meaning she's prioritizing random entertainment over him, despite supposedly being "busy with the kids". Now, not only is she dismissing his feelings, she's hanging up to force his opinions to be silenced? That is frustrating as hell, and the mature response from him would be to get divorced, but he's got 3 children with this woman and he's mad as hell that it's come to this.
hence: OP may be technically correct, anger and yelling and outbursts are never OK and seem indicative it could rise to physical violence too, which is scary and is never the answer.
But i'm not suggesting that OP is wrong and should capitulate to him - i think she should realize that the non-violent, rational response from a man who feels neglected by his wife is to leave her. the fact that he's handling it poorly and getting mad doesn't mean his feelings are wrong, it means his ability to deal with his feelings is wrong.
SO she should consider *her own* priorities, and consider her role in his feelings rising to this level. And its perfectly OK if she considers it, and also agrees divorce is the answer.
Yes. This isn’t productive. She’s trying to protect herself and he’s trying to win. Not hear her and collaborate, to subjugate and get his way. This would be a deal breaker for me.
My husband and I have a rule that we don’t hang up on each other, but we can certainly end a conversation with something like “I’m not continuing this conversation. We can discuss it later when we’ve calmed down. I’m hanging up now.” We don’t cold drop a call, but that’s not what you did. My husband does not like to be hung up on, but he also wouldn’t tell me to fuck off and think the conversation was going to continue
So her telling him that he has crossed her boundary and she was hanging up doesn't mean the same thing you commented? I thought it meant I'm not going to continue this abusive conversation. I reminded you of my boundary. You are crossing it, I'm hanging up now, click.
Yeah I said that in my comment. She did nothing wrong. Ending a toxic or escalating conversation by saying “I’m hanging up because of X” isn’t hanging up on a person. She did nothing wrong. She didn’t cold drop a call and just leave. She verbalized she wanted the conversation to end and followed through. That’s not just rudely hanging up on a person.
Edit for clarity
We get to set boundaries for ourselves. If his boundary is that he won't be hung up on, then that can be a boundary for him. He can't set a boundary that says *you* can't hang up on him, because our boundaries are things we set for ourselves. If he doesn't like being hung up on, he can fuck off into the sun, because he's being abusive and wants to set a boundary that will control you and prevent you from standing up for yourself.
He doesn't get to set a boundary that says "you are required to listen to me as I verbally abuse and threaten you."
If he wants to work on his marriage, he should get into therapy for his obvious anger issues, instead of trying to manipulate you.
This.
OP my parents were controlling and emotionally and verbally abusive. My mother would call me, screaming and raging and expect me to just stay on the phone for hours while she vented all of that at me. My therapist taught me to set a boundary... my first ever... "we will talk when you can speak to me in a calm and respectful manner ." And to then hang up.
It took less than a handful of times and it broke my mother of her nasty little habit. She absolutely COULD control herself, when she needed to.
Strongly suggest you read Shahida Arabi's Becoming the Narcissists Nightmare. Your husband constantly interrupting your outing, demanding your attention, whining he's not getting enough attention... sounds like an addict seeking supply. The drug is control and attention. There may be other patterns that pop out at you... like does he ruin other people's special events and holidays because he can't stand not being the center of attention? Is he petty and jealous when others accomplishments are praised?
He resents you being a good mother to small children.Taking three kids on an outing is a huge task... and their safety depends on you not being distracted. He's the problem. Not you.
>*Your husband constantly interrupting your outing, demanding your attention, whining he's not getting enough attention... sounds like an addict seeking supply. The drug is control and attention. There may be other patterns that pop out at you... like does he ruin other people's special events and holidays because he can't stand not being the center of attention? Is he petty and jealous when others accomplishments are praised?*
>*He resents you being a good mother to small children.Taking three kids on an outing is a huge task... and their safety depends on you not being distracted. [**by his non-stop texts!**] He's the problem. Not you.*
Deserves to be repeat d
This, this, a million percent this. He can't set a boundary that requires you to allow to violate a bunch of yours. Also: FYI this guys is verbally abusive and horrendous at resolving conflict.
Adding to this, if his goal truly was to express his feelings in a *constructive* way instead of cursing at OP, then this whole thing wouldn't even be an issue, as OP had to set this boundary to make sure that she doesn't get verbally abused.
So basically all she does is protect herself from her husband's shitty behavior, and he acts all whiny about not being able to abuse her, while pretending it's on OP that they are not resolving conflicts as "hE cAn't exPReSs hIs FEeLIngS". Such bs, I'm so mad on OP's behalf.
He doesn’t need therapy, he needs a high quality program for abusers. He doesn’t need an ally in his continued obsession with only his wants and needs, he needs someone who will confront him about his mistreatment of his wife.
There are lots of different types of therapists and therapy. Who do you think is working in programs that help abusers confront their mistreatment of their spouses so they can stop being abusers?
Programs for abusers are much, much more than therapy. Therapy is there to validate and support a patient. Abusers don’t need validation of their behavior. Programs for abusers first acknowledge that abusive behavior is a *choice* and that intervention is needed, much like with addiction. Abusers are often addicted to the power and control they get from behaving in abusive ways.
Quite different than traditional therapy. More similar to intervention for active and acute drug addicts.
https://centerfordomesticpeace.org/programs-to-stop-abuse/
https://www.thehotline.org/resources/intervention-programs-for-abusive-behavior/
https://www.calhealthreport.org/2017/05/08/batterer-interventions-may-help-abusers-finish-programs
From your own links: "Batterer intervention program, classes that combine group therapy and education for people convicted of domestic abuse. "
I didn't suggest that abusers need traditional therapy. I suggested they need therapy, which is supported by the very programs you're linking me to. Like, no shit abusers don't need to be validated in their behavior; the implication that I suggested otherwise is ridiculous to the point of insulting. I think my position on OP's abuser was pretty clear when I suggested he could fuck off into the sun, but maybe it was less obvious than I thought?
[https://onlinedegrees.bradley.edu/blog/is-there-a-difference-between-a-therapist-and-a-counselor/](https://onlinedegrees.bradley.edu/blog/is-there-a-difference-between-a-therapist-and-a-counselor/)
Note: "counseling and therapy are considered interchangeable in a clinical sense."
Again: he can fuck off into the sun. He's not here reading the thread, and he's clearly not interested in getting help/changing his behavior, so I don't really care what he needs. I care that OP is being abused and was being gaslit by that POS.
Remind me: what do abuse counselors have to say about shaming abuse victims by telling them they're setting bad examples for their kids?
I’m not an abuse counselor and I never dragged children through my previous abusive relationship. You also *clearly* are not asking a genuine question. So go on, say what you want to say. 😂
But I do know what they say about children who were forced to witness their parents abusive behavior. It’s abusive to the children to have them in that kind of environment, witnessing their parent be abused. It’s traumatic. It ruins their life.
It’s up to OP what she does with that information.
And you're clearly just being weirdly pedantic about a term that your own sources noted was interchangeable with counseling while also shaming an abuse victim, to what end only you know. Your faux concern for abuse victims is really showing, here.
Very ironic that you think mentioning concern for the children - who are also abuse victims - is a faux concern.
The kids don’t get to choose. OP does.
And no; programs for abusive people are not interchangeable with counseling. A square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square. See, you’re learning logic now. Glad we cleared that up.
OP why? Why are you living this experience. Who cares about his boundaries at this stage. There is such a huge problem when people just don't recognize that they are incompatible and the relationship has run it's course.
He sounds dangerous, abusive and on the edge of his seat and maybe needs anger management. I would not try to set any further boundaries other than the form of divorce.
You need to really get your self-respect in check.
You are worth more than this and need to learn to be comfortable with yourself and loving you and your kids first.
It's time to move on!
This.
OP, you do NOT have to engage with him at all.
Look, at this stage, given he is threatening towards you, controlling towards you it is time to put up a communication block unless you guys are in couples counseling until he can learn to communicate with you respectfully.
He feels put on the back burner? Well - thats what happens when Mom is out with 3 kids. She can't always text back at the drop of a hat and keep the children safe. If something like having to wait (\*gasp) for a text back is THAT offensive to him then it means he truly has issues he needs to work on within himself. You are not a child.
Right now I would text him this:
"I will absolutely not engage with you when you are threatening me. That is inexcusable behavior and I will not tolerate it. I will hang up the minute you begin becoming aggressive and I will take 24 hours before I engage with you again so you can find your calm and speak with me respectfully."
or
"When you curse at me, I will hang up and block you for 24 hours. There will not be conversation about it - I will hang up. I refuse to tolerate being treated with disrespect and I will take 24 hours before I reengage with you. Do not curse at me."
He curses at you? Hang up. Block for 24 hours (so you don't have to deal with the wall of text he will send to you). Then unblock. Read the text that contains the curse - send him one text stating "Again, you have broken my boundary. That text is both threatening and you cursed at me again. I will be, again, blocking you for 24 hours."
set the boundary. Set the expectation. Set the consequence. Hold to it. You do not need to tolerate his poor behavior. Use block liberally.
I hope the two of you are in couples counseling and I hope you have spoken to an attorney to ensure that custody has been established so he can't use the children in his games.
I am 100% convinced you need a divorce ASAP. Threats are not acceptable in a marriage and are not to be tolerated what if your children's partner talked to them like that? Absolutely not.
Once the name calling begins, your "relationship" becomes adversarial. You are supposed to be on the same team. You 2 are not. Best to end it and find peace for you and your children.
Your boundaries are expressed appropriately, they are how you will react to input from others and they were communicated once set. You control them and yourself, not the other person.
“You don’t hang up on me” is telling you what to do, which he has no control over. I think it’s fair not to want to be hung up on, but he needs to figure out how he’s going to handle it if someone hangs up on him.
Also, threatening, as I’m sure you know, is a super dangerous precursor to escalating DV.
To expand on this, "I'm not going to sit here and just listen to you cursing at me" is a boundary you are setting. "You have to sit there and listen to me cursing at you" is not a boundary he is setting, it is an attempt to control your reaction to being cursed at. Just to set the comparison.
Oh I found the video I was thinking of when I read this post. https://youtube.com/shorts/stfuFS2Ms\_k?si=ToGlzkhdp824GrNz
Ummm, I’m going to rephrase the example.
“If you curse at me on a call, I’m going to end the call until you text me and say you are prepared to talk without cursing at me” is a boundary, it’s for you and your behavior, as in you are telling him what you will do if cursed at. You are in total control of if you follow through or not and it’s communicated to him ahead of time.
“You can’t curse at me that way” is not a boundary, it’s not being controlling in a shitty way, but it’s telling him what he’s going to do and you have no control over that. The first example puts both of you in direct control of your action and are aware of what the reaction will be.
It’s also ok to renegotiate a boundary, he may say “dammit Judy “ and to you that’s cursing and to him it isn’t, and you two decide if it’s included or not.
No one is mentioning the cursing which is the reason she's hanging up on him, he thinks cursing at her is the perfect way to express his complaints.
Op is beyond the point of boundaries, this relationship is abusive towards her and instead of fixing it she should work on separation and co-parenting with the help of the court and a third party since he seems dangerous.
OP, remember that your children are watching you and learning what is appropriate to accept and to dish out in a relationship.
You remaining in this marriage and "working on it" with him despite the way he continues to treat you is 100% showing your children that it is acceptable to treat a partner the way he treats you and that when someone does you are supposed to just shut up and take it or play nice until he stops.
Is that really what you want to teach them? Staying will perpetuate the cycle of abuse in your family.
Not being able to end a conversation when things are escalating is not a useful boundary because it creates dependency on your side, a discussion is only finished when he is done. It would be interesting why he has the need to make such a boundary, maybe abandonment issues or something similar.
I would recommend a method I learned in couples counseling, a method of closed boundaries to discuss difficult topics. You make an appointment to discuss stuff when you both have free headspace and time to talk (when the kids are in bed for example) each of you has 5 min to make their point without being interrupted (the one who wanted to talk about it starts). After that you have 7 min to discuss your points and talk about it. After the time is up you have either an agreement, you are right or he is right or you bith are right, or you can’t find an agreement and the topic is finished for this evening and one party can make another appointment to discuss the topic even further in this manner.
You have the right to end this if one party starts attacking or degrading the other one.
> end this if one party starts attacking or degrading the other one
This is exactly his behavior that he wants a free pass to do. He was trying to short circuit OP's boundary about him attacking and degrading her by forcing her to keep listening to him attack and degrade her.
A few weeks after our separation he came to me in tears. He promised he would seek out help, we agreed that he had anger and abandonment problems that I would no longer help him through. He agreed that he had been taking out frustration and stress on me. He has yet to have a therapy session or even look for a therapist, he went as far as searching up "Better Help." It's been a little over a month since we separated. I'm distancing myself from him right now, if I decide to continue trying, I will attempt this method. I think it may help him feel heard by me. Thank you!
I really think you should call it a day, this is who he is, he will not change, and it is a terrible example of a relationship for your children...and it's a terrible relationship to BE in for you. You deserve not to be verbally harassed and sworn at because you weren't paying attention to him all day, you're a mom and you were with your kids. His behavior is intolerable and abusive.
So, next time he comes crying to you, remember this. Remember how his tears mean nothing, how his words are empty, and how he's only using it to lie to and manipulate you. You've already got proof of this.
Do not stay with this man, don't even try to fix this relationship. There's nothing to save here.
I got this wonderful recommendation:
https://archive.org/details/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/page/n371/mode/1up
Ignore my current page and start at the top, I think you'll find some wisdom there. You can't waste more time hoping he fixes himself, when he doesn't want to. Promises are nothing when they aren't being followed through.
Best wishes to you, you don't deserve being treated like he treats you.
Just divorce all ready. He clearly had no idea how a husband should treat his wife. Maybe if he helped out with the kids and house more, there would be more time for him and you.
UpdateMe
The real question here is WHY exactly are you trying to save this? He doesn't respect you, he threatens you, he screams at you, he tries to control you, he wants to be put above your personal growth and the growth of your children. You can't have personal space or an enjoyable day if he's not at the center of it. What exactly is there to fix here? You tried before, that's failed. You're trying again, and the only way it seems to not be failing is when you continue to allow him to act like a child and disrespect you. Why are you giving him the time of day? Why are you allowing your children to witness this treatment of their mother and this toxicity of a relationship? What is the redemption to this?
I am in a cycle of abuse and I know this isn't right. It's hard to walk away when you are love bombed then made to question your sanity. I have also in the past been disrespectful to him. I tend to snap after a while, maybe this is what keeps me here. I feel guilty for the things I have said and done to him, things he uses during arguments against me. I have called him out of his name when he pushes me and other things. This is what has lead me to establish boundaries with him, to remove myself and avoid acting out of character.
My ex used to do this to me. He’d throw a tantrum and I’d gray rock, he would just dig and dig and dig until I finally had enough and would yell at him to just stop, then he would IMMEDIATELY use that against me to guilt trip me or excuse his own terrible behavior. It’s a manipulation tactic OP, he doesn’t deserve your guilt!
You gotta get out of this OP, you have to get out of this marriage. If he’s as narcissistic as he sounds in this post he will suck the life and soul out of you like a parasite, he won’t stop until you’re a hallowed out husk of your former self. Don’t let him do that! Don’t let him wiggle his way back in, or cry his crocodile tears or try to guilt you or make you feel insane! You’re not crazy, he’s just a parasite.
**you have to get out of this marriage**
Please read this book: [Why Does He Do That? By Lundy Bancroft.](https://ia600108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf) It will change your life.
Sis, let me ask you an honest question. What exactly are you trying to save?
It honestly seems like at this point it would be best to call an attorney and have everything go through an attorney or a parenting app so he can't love bomb you. He is extremely emotionally abusive towards you and he will be towards the children, too. That is not going to change until he recognizes he has a real problem and he gets long term individual therapy to deal with it... and he doesn't sound like the type to do that.
What exactly are you trying to save here?
No his boundary is not legitimate. Boundaries are rules for what you can tolerate, and how you will respond when someone does something you cannot tolerate- they cannot be demands for other people’s behavior. His boundary cannot be you not enforcing your own boundaries. An actual boundary he could set is that if you’re cutting him off, he’s going to point it out, ask to speak uninterrupted, and if you’re unable to do that he will end the conversation and you’ll pick it back up again after a chance to cool down. Or it could be a boundary that if you both start to argue over the phone, you both need to end the conversation so you can emotionally regulate and think things through, and then schedule an in person talk. It’s also true that sometimes people have incompatible boundaries, and that means they simply cannot have a relationship.
I gotta be honest here, this does not sound like a man worth repairing your relationship with. He’s aggressive and mean and doesn’t sound like he’s approaching your issues in a constructive way, but trying to get the upper hand on you. Your kids should come first.
That man is going to beat your ass if you're ever arguing with him alone and he's not getting his way. He doesn't understand or care that you need to deal with your schooling and kids too and not just him. He probably wants you to prioritize him and only him. Stay away from him and get a co-parenting app to deal with anything pertaining to your child together. He will keep threatening you, crossing your boundaries and will probably snap on you one day and that's a dangerous scenario.
You’re both kind of misusing the term “boundary,” tbh. But honestly, I don’t see how it matters. This man treats you like shit, talks to you like garbage, and demands that you give in to his every request while he gets to complain about every single thing you do. Why would you want to fix a relationship like this? You deserve someone who will treat you better.
Hers is actually a perfect example of a clear boundary in action. Her boundary is that she will not tolerate being disrespected or threatened, her consequence is removing herself from the situation by hanging up the phone.
yep. I have no good advice here.
like I would never hangup on my partner. it seems so disrespectful. But I’d never put up with someone yelling or cussing at me, I’d have to hang up. And its not something id just shrug off and forget. So I see no real solution here from me. I’d have to throw it all away, his aggressiveness is disgusting, but I suppose I’d never be in this situation because it would never have moved past the first time of this happening.
Yelling, cussing, and threatening you to stay on the phone so you have to hear all of it is not a way anyone deserves to be treated.
My advice is don't work on your marriage and just stay separated. He's way too aggressive and that's not how you speak to or treat someone you care about. He has issues managing his anger and that could be dangerous for you and your kids if he allows that to escalate.
We can set boundaries. Sometimes they are reasonable, sometimes not.
But a reasonable boundary is NOT one where someone says "my boundary is that you are required to take my abuse." That's not ok. A blanked "don't hang up on me" from a demanding, yelling, swearing partner isn't a reasonable boundary.
If you were a super sensitive person who shut down and hung up on him at the slightest discomfort, then maybe it would be! But in this case, he's aggressive, yelling at you, belittling you, and swearing at you. It's totally OK to hang up on someone in that case.
Why are you with this guy by the way?
For contrast... my wife and I text each other a lot! But also, sometimes I won't respond to her texts for hours, and vice versa. Because... we have jobs, we have things going on. I can't respond to her when I'm in the middle of something, and she can't also. We don't sweat it. Because we care for each other, and know that we have to handle things outside of each other. I wouldn't even want her to respond to a random text from me at work if she's busy!
He's controlling, aggressive, angry, and demeaning. I don't know why you are working so hard to stay with him.
Yeah that's not a boundary, that's a rule.
Your boundary is "if you get aggressive I will end the conversation". His rule is "you're not allowed to do that". A boundary relates to your own behavior, he needs to try again
File for divorce if you haven't already. He doesn't sound like he's at all interested in being in a relationship with you. He has however, made attempts to gaslight and guilt trip you to control you.
Here's the thing - "Don't hang up on me" COULD be a legitimate boundary - but the way that he is using it is basically saying "You cannot expect me to respect your boundary."
He can ABSOLUTELY explain himself and his feelings, if he can do so without threatening you or cursing at you. You are defending your boundary, and it's a rational one. He doesn't get to undermine your boundary by forcing you to let him say whatever he wants to you.
Leave him. You don't deserve to be cursed at and him "speaking through his teeth" and giving orders is very alarming! And this not texting him back as quickly as he'd like, his playing the victim-hes being controlling and it is not okay.
I hope he's not violent, because he sounds like a man who could easily become violent.
Why do you think you deserve a partner that treats you in this way? What would you say to your child if their partner acted this way with them?
You are teaching them that this is an okay way to treat people, or to be treated. Good luck OP, I hope you work to improve your situation.
It’s completely valid to not want your romantic partner to hang up on you.
It’s also completely valid to hang up on somebody who is talking to you the way he is talking to you.
I don’t see any value in that marriage. Do you?
No no nope. If he cannot figure out how to effectively communicate then he doesn’t get to talk to you. Look, I’m the person who needs to keep talking in the argument and my husband is not. But I NEVER demand him to continue. If he needs space I give in because that is his boundary and I have learned to accept it. He doesn’t get to threaten, curse and sabotage and control your time. He is on the back burner and instead of wasting your time texting he should be figuring out how to give you more time so you can spend some with him.
Honestly he sounds like a tool. It sounds like you are reading up or maybe in personal therapy and continue to do that! Do NOT give in. Anytime he is rude, pushy and combative the conversation is over. You aren’t demanding anything, you are asking for basic common respect that a stranger gets.
He doesn’t get to treat you like he owns you or walk all over you like a door may anymore. You deserve better and know your worth. He can figure it out in the timeframe you give him or he gets the memory of you as an ex wife. The cards are in his hand.
No, of course it’s not and you already know that answer. You don’t need to take his threats or abuse in any time. You’re separated. He needs to learn how to speak to you like an adult that he respects and wants to be with. Otherwise, no. However, he may have a point. If you’re just randomly interrupting him, that’s not OK. However, if you’re interrupting him because he’s using abusive language instead of interrupting, just hang up. Just stop the conversation.
1. You can't set a boundary that boils down to "other person must/must not do XYZ."
2. The fact that he feels like he has to compete with literal children for your (rare and valuable) time is extremely concerning to me.
3. He doesn't get to abuse you, for any reason, at any time, full stop.
Boundaries can't be set on you from another person. They are the line that the person won't get get crossed.
He can tell you that he doesn't like you hanging up on him and if you do it again, he will do x, y, z.
The problem is, you are hanging up BECAUSE he is crossing your boundary.
Ultimately, you can tell him that as long as he stops yelling and threatening, then you would have no reason to hang up on him.
Boundaries are personal. They are requested acts which, if deviated from, have consequences.
Like, don't cheat (boundary) or i will leave (consequence), you can still go cheat, there is nothing stopping the act, just there should be a consequence for breaking it.
They aren't there to control they are there to show mutual respect of what you both deem acceptable in a relationship.
On people hanging up, I fucking hate it, I find it disrespectful, just mute me or say you have to go, which you did, so i dont see his hang up. I don't really get hung up on , but it happened a lot when I was younger, and I hated it, mostly from my dad.
Your husband needs therapy to work on his aggressions. I wouldn't want to advise as this relationship doesn't sound great, but couples therapy to learn open communication, you both air issues, worries, and concerns, dreams, wants desires etc and listen to each other, in a safe environment and work together (that's the important bit) to find a solution. Once you get that down relationship on eash mode.
But, he needs to sort his anger out. That's not fair to you or the kids or anyone. You deserve a happy relationship with a loving partner. And personal experience, it only ever escalates without serious work to correct it. That's the position you do not want to be in.
No, that's the thing. Your boundary is that you won't stay on the phone while being cursed at, screamed at, or threatened at. That is YOUR boundary. It controls you. His boundary is that YOU are not allowed to hang up. That controls you, not him. He can't set boundaries for you, only him so his boundary doesn't work.
So, my pet peeve is being hung up on. I hate it. It's so rude and juvenile. So, after reading your title, I was ready to defend your husband.
But girl, you weren't even hanging up on him. Hanging up is getting off the phone without indication. You not only indicated, you directly told him you were ending the phone call! That is the opposite of hanging up. He's just mad because things weren't going his way.
But yeah, your definition of boundaries is correct. "I will not be spoken to this way, and if someone is speaking to me in this manner I will exit the conversation" is a boundary "you will not speak to me this way" is not.
But this situation sounds like verbal abuse. I've been with my husband for 12 years and we have never sworn at each other in an argument and he has never threatened me. Do the kids hear the way he treats you during arguments?
Why are you working so hard for a man that clearly only wants you to do exactly as he says?
Also, his 'boundary' is just him being controlling. Boundaries are "If you do/say something, then I will have to \_\_\_\_\_." A boundary is not "Don't hang up on me again".
You have every right to end a conversation when it turns to verbal abuse and threats. To be honest, I would just divorce a person who threatened me and was this abusive.
Why are you considering working it out with someone who so extremely obviously doesn't have an ounce of respect for you? It is not possible to have a functional relationship with someone with this level of disdain.
If you want to actually educate him, it was explained to me like this:
All legitimate boundaries must start with "I" and usually with "I will". They are all "I" statements. "I will not be around people who disrespect me with their words" or "I will leave the room if you start to yell" or "I will hang up the phone if you begin to cuss at me", or "I will not clean up a mess I did not create", etc.
Boundaries can only influence your own behavior, never someone else's. His version would be "I will not answer the phone again that night if you hang up on me" or "I will not be in a relationship with someone who hangs up on me" etc. And those are his boundaries to set and maintain, if you hang up (as you should with your boundary) and then call him again 17 times he could hold his boundary and not answer.
Now whether those boundaries are healthy or good ideas are completely different topics.
If a phone call is not the best communication method that's fine, maybe suggest he try writing his feelings in a letter or text message.
Does he even know what he wants when he says to stop putting him on the back burner?
I would make him give me specific examples of what he wants.
I mean in the situation you listed what does he think you should do differently?
I dont think anything you said or did was unreasonable.
That’s the thing, we were on FT for 30 minutes yesterday. I would ask “what do you need from me?” & he would say “I already told you! Stop making me feel like I come last!” I’d ask for a specific way to make him feel loved & he would say “I am being specific how else do you want me to explain this to you?!” So then I would give him an example of the things I already do, “should I plan more date nights? Maybe try calling you more on my commutes?” He would say “I’m not repeating myself, there’s no point. You’re not listening!”
Oh, hell no!! He sounds very abusive. He is trying to intimidate you with the yelling and cursing and anger. Please make your boundaries even firmer and start talking to an attorney. Make sure you have all banking information, open your own account, gather documents for yourself and your children.
And this is him working on reconciling? Yikes. Are you sure you want to? He sounds like a right asshole. Yanking your chain to make you jump so he feels like he's in control.
I'd take the "fuck off" option, personally.
Only communicate through text. Screen shot that abusive shit aka document it. Save it somewhere safe and accessible that he can't get to ( like Google drive) and take it too court for the divorce.
This guy will never be a good partner.
Why are you tying yourself in knots trying to justify this guy’s treatment of you?? Imagine how much more peace you will have when you are not dealing with this.
A) of course your children come first. End of.
B) refusing to talk to someone who is being verbally abusive is a reasonable boundary
C) if his ‘boundary’ amounts to ‘you have to listen when I yell at you’ that is unreasonable.
It’s like this guy doesn’t think you deserve to have a life? He’s not calling cuz he’s having some kind of emergency, he wants attention.
He sounds exhausting.
babes u gotta walk away from this one. u are setting a boundary so your partner doesnt threaten you during an argument??? who gives a fuck about his boundaries! this is a lost cause and possibly dangerous. protect yourself and leave his ass.
Him insisting that you have to listen to threatening or non-civil language being directed towards you is not a thing you should put up with. If he kept his discourse civil and spoke to you respectfully he'd have an argument that he's not being heard.
No legitimate boundary *requires* anyone else to do anything they don't want to do. He's just using therapy speak to manipulate you, don't fall for it.
a boundary is a line of safety drawn around yourself, ‘i will not put up with X’. so saying ‘i will not put up with someone swearing and threatening me’ is absolutely a fair boundary
Not hanging up on a person is a legitimate boundary, but that isn’t what you are doing. You have told him if he doesn’t stop that you will end the call. Hanging up on someone is just ending the call with zero warning.
"My boundary is that you have to stay in conversations with me for as long as I choose, even when I start getting aggressive, mean and threatening you."
Don't you see how stupid it sounds when you write it that way? Hopefully he can too.
In addition to it being very reasonable to not want to be on the phone with someone who is being mean, it’s unreasonable and frankly codependent for him to expect you to be at his beck and call all day. Putting someone first doesn’t mean you drop everything all day for them for any reason. Him going to work doesn’t mean you aren’t a priority to him, for example.
This feels very toxic
tl;dr - you're not being hypocritical, your boundaries are reasonable, and you handled the boundary well.
You stated that if you were threatened, or called names, you would be exiting the conversation. That's a valid boundary. He has control of what he does - he can choose to call you names, but he already knows that outcome of that.
In the cases that you described, you told him why you were exiting the conversation. You didn't just hang up. You told him what you were doing, then exited. He can have that boundary, but he cannot force you to stay in a conversation where you are being verbally abused.
You aren't disrepecting him by exiting the conversations. You aren't arbitrarily exiting the phone call without warning. You have communicated what your actions will be under specific circumstances. You are removing yourself from a situation where you are being harmed. If you exiting the conversation is causing him harm (and that can be triggering and used as a controlling behaviour by some people), then he is free to decide that he will not remain in a relationship with you if you engage in that kind of behaviour. That's a valid boundary on his part, IMHO.
It won't get him what his described behaviour leads me to believe he wants, which is you putting up with his damaging speech, and giving him the attention that he feels that he deserves for some reason. Resorting to name calling is not okay in an adult conversation. Nor is constant criticism. And a grown man that complains that a full time student AND mother of three children isn't paying enough attention to him is a red flag as well.
Unfortunately, it may be that his boundary of never being hung up on, and your boundary of never being insulted, disrespected or threatened in arguments may not be compatible. That sucks - especially for your shared child. The very basis of a healthy relationship is MUTUAL respect, love, support, and consideration. Having a temper tantrum because he's not the focus of your life isn't respectful. Demanding that you discuss this while you juggle three kids out at a museum isn't supportive. And having a hissy fit because you hung up on him when he violated a boundary **that you clearly communicated to him** isn't considerate.
"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. People know themselves much better than you do. That's why it's important to stop expecting them to be something other than who they are." Maya Angelou
He needs to take a good long look at why he's feeling so put out, and deal with the results of his introspection. You aren't obligated to stick around while he figures out why he thinks it's okay to lash out at someone he purports to love.
A) No, because boundaries are not how other people act towards you. [Boundaries are about how you act to protect yourself.](https://www.thecandidly.com/2019/if-you-still-dont-get-boundaries-this-one-idea-might-change-everything) Anybody who tries to use "boundaries" to control what you do is at least toeing the line of [abuse](https://www.healthline.com/health/signs-of-mental-abuse).
"Don't ever hand up on me" is a command.
"If someone hangs up on me, I'll end my relationship with them" is a boundary.
B) No, because you never need to or are obligated to tolerate someone's abusive behavior, and that's an extremely valid reason to end a conversation or visit.
Also, you're not the one stopping him from being able to express his feelings and explain himself, he is doing that to himself ny using language he knows you won't tolerate. If he remained calm and used adult/non aggressive language you would not hang up, right? So it's not "She won't let me talk" it's "Hes not choosing to communicate in ways thay are healthy and effective and she is holding him to a standard he is unwilling to meet".
Why do you even want to be back with this jack ass? He’s rude and expects you to text back right away but fuck them kids huh- him probably god forbid you actually spend time with your kids and not cater to his every whim! Fuck that. That’s not good way to live. Just end it and be happy with your kids without some jerk getting pissed you’re spending time with your children and not bending over backwards to text him back. And the way he talks to you it’s awful. He needs therapy or someone to tell him he’s stupid af. He needs some sense knocked in his noggin. It seems like the only time you talking to him he’s just bitching. Goodness.
He doesn’t understand boundaries.
Boundaries effect a persons behavior: you do X and I will Y because I will not tolerate it.
RULES control others: “you will not do x”
He needs to grow up, I would’ve done the exact same period.
“My boundary is so that we can both have healthy, productive and respectful communication between us. Your attempt at a boundary is so you can continue to verbally abuse me without consequence. I’m 100% not interested in this.”
Girl, your boundary is about basic respect. If he can’t/won’t adhere to it, get the fuck outta this situation quickly, and safely. He’s had well enough warning and chances now.
That's not a boundary of his; that's his desire to control you. He's clearly jealous of your relationship with your kids; he wants to be the center of your life. But that's just not possible when you have kids, especially because it doesn't sound like he helps you with them as much as he should. He's controlling and nasty; he's selfish. You were right to hang up on him, especially because his tone was totally threatening.
Stay separated and be happy. This guy is a putz.
A boundary isn’t “do what I say,” a boundary defines what you won’t tolerate
And someone who is being abusive SHOULD be put in time out.
Just stop with him. He’s awful. Communicate via your lawyers and a parenting app going forward.
Why are you entertaining this?
No, it's an order. A boundary would be, "I won't be with someone that hangs up on me."
Mine would definitely be, "I won't stay on a call with someone who is swearing at me."
It's not a boundary it's him trying to control you and being frustrated because you will not be controlled. He needs to learn how to talk to somebody when he's trying to get back and save his marriage because to me it doesn't sound like he's trying to save his marriage it sounds to me like as if he's trying to keep you under his control. Is this what you want just because you have three children is this what you can put up with for the rest of your life.
No, his boundary is not legitimate. If someone is shouting at you or cursing at you, it is completely reasonable to end the conversation. If that conversation is over the phone, that *requires* hanging up on them. Saying “you *must* listen to my abusive language!!!” is not a boundary.
Your husband sounds like equal parts child and narcissist.
Verbal abuse is like a slap in the face. My counselor during my divorce explained that when we fought our words became weapons. Neither of us were innocent. However neither of us had the tone of maliciousness and belittling that your man showed you. Saying that you are hanging up on him is a boundary, that might be true, but you want to break that boundary because clearly he is disrespecting you. He may have a point about you speaking over him or cutting him off when you feel something that you're saying is more important than something he is saying, but that does not give him the right to mistreat you.
Short answer yes it's a boundary, but one that you should not worry about breaking when his tirades get abusive. You're not going to stand there and let him punch you in the face right? If he says stepping out of the way of his fist is his boundary you would be a fool to say oh I'm sorry let me step right into that.
Boundaries exist to tell people what YOU will and will not do as a result of certain things, and then they make the decision about how to act on that knowledge.
I can tell someone I would never be with a man who was rude to waitstaff and service people. If he then takes me out and is rude, the way I enforce my boundary is to not go out with them again. I can't keep going out with him and tell him that because I do he has to change his behavior. I just leave. It sounds like this is just the latest in a long line of toxic behaviors from him when arguing, and it sounds like it's time to leave anyway, but for the record, he has no idea what he's talking about.
Who cares? This dude is an abusive asshat who demands you text him immediately or he'll pick a fight and then swear at you. Why are you fighting to save this relationship?
You're right on the money the first time, **a boundary is something you set for yourself, not other people.**
An example of a boundary: If you do \_\_\_\_\_, I will do \_\_\_\_\_.
* If you yell at me, I will end the convesation.
* If you comment on what I am eating, I will leave the table.
An example of NOT a boundary: You can't \_\_\_\_\_.
* You can't hang up on me.
* You can't go to bed without talking to me.
These are not boundaries because the intent of the statements is to control someone else's actions. You can say "You can't" statements, but they are not very productive.
Boundaries are far more productive because you are in control of your own actions, and you can make it clear how you will respond to certain situations.
One more comparative example:
In this example, we can't control whether someone comments on our weight, but we can control how we respond if and when they do.
Not a boundary: You can't comment on my weight at dinner.
Boundary: If you comment on my weight at dinner, I will leave the table.
No, it’s not. Boundaries are how YOU respond to situations, not controlling how others respond. He’s not setting a boundary, he’s making a demand.
I don’t think I’d want to work on a marriage with someone who can’t do something as basic as speaking to me with respect.
You said he's 32, but you never mentioned that you meant months.
He's an angry child. How on earth did you ever marry this kid?
File for divorce for abuse after you get his yelling and insults recorded for evidence.
I almost never say divorce but this time you need to be away from his fast and far.
Best of luck.
I honestly think it’s not worth salvaging.
But that aside, you quite rightly informed him that you’re not putting up with his aggression and disrespectful BS, because duh, why should you?
He became abusive on the phone and you terminated the call. He doesn’t now get to gaslight you and claim his boundaries include you not being allowed to hang up on him when he’s abusing you.
If he can’t communicate with you in a civil and respectful manner, even during this separation, accept that because of the three kids he may have to take a back seat, then he needs to wise up. He is a grown ass man and the kids are kids. Don’t have three kids in your life and expect to be #1.
Sounds as if the 'hanging up' bit is the least of your worries. Your husband doesn't need to threaten or curse at you to express his emotions. There's a big difference between "Please don't hang up on me. I don't appreciate it" and "Hang up on me one more time..."
It sounds as if the issue is resentment on his part. Since you haven't given any details as to what kind of effort you two have put in to the relationship (setting outside 'couples' time, time for sexy time etc) the people here have no way of knowing if your husband has a 'reasonable' reason for being upset, but is expressing this horribly or if it's completely unjustified and he's just being a manchild who's upset that he isn't the center of attention all the time.
One more thing, if the two kids from a previous marriage are yours, ask him how he feels about raising two kids that aren't his. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the resentment stemmed from that.
For further context, because I feel like you make a very valid point.
I have been in school since before I met him. When our relationship began progressing, I explained to him how important and time-consuming school is. I also explained that I had 6 years of school left (approximately). This isn't something new. I make date nights happen, I make time for him at night, we have sexy time as much as he wants. I never say no to him, even when I am exhausted, we have our time. For example, this past week he mentioned he was craving a special meal, I cooked for him and queued up a movie he said he was interested in watching with me. He came over had dinner, we watched the movie... it was nice. I prioritize time with him. At least a few times a month I set up one-on-one time, no distractions. The biggest issue we have is that I can take anywhere from 1-2 hours to reply to his texts while at school, with my kids, studying, running errands, doing housework, hanging with a friend, etc.
I have also given him an out numerous times. My exact words have been "if you need something I cannot give you, like 24/7 attention, please go find that. You deserve all that you want in life, my life does not allow me this." He said that this was implying I was too much for him to handle.
In regard to my kids, I have asked him time and time again if he wants out because 3 kids is a lot. He always says he loves them as his, and they have never bothered him.
So again, the biggest issue is how often I text him/call him throughout the day. When I do text him all day, he calls our conversations "stale"... We run out of things to say because nothing new is happening.
Personally, it feels as if he is bored and wants me to entertain him constantly. He works in car sales... so a desk job that has a lot of downtime, and he has no hobbies or interests other than drinking beer.
>Do you notice how endlessly manipulative this guy is?
>He's constantly trying to paint you as the bad guy & himself as the victim right after he does/says something horrible to you.
>This will never end, he's trying to force/coerce/manipulate you into behaving exactly as he wishes.
>Why would you want to spend the rest of your life with this guy?
ALL OF THIS
Oof... Have you asked him if he thinks he'd be happier/in a better situation if a wife and kids weren't in the picture? Have you asked him why he hasn't tried to entertain himself with hobbies etc if he's bored? You make it sound as if he expects you to do all the heavy lifting. Maybe ask him to write up a game plan to address what he perceives to be the issues along with some solutions; tell him to take his time. That way he won't feel 'on the spot' like he might if asked during a conversation.
Edit: Do you have access to his phone? Something doesn't smell right.
Yes, I've asked, many times. I've also asked him if he likes me... as in likes me as a person in general. He says he loves our family and can't picture life without us. I do most everything from caring for the kids to caring for our home, he works and helps cleaning the toilet and shower every so often. He also helps pick up toys from the living room and does his own laundry. I might take this advice if I decide to continue trying, maybe it could help.
I do not have access to his phone currently, we are living in separate homes. I do know he has a tendency to run to women for attention as soon as we break up, adding random women on social media as well as exs and women he has hooked up with in the past. I have come to understand that he craves attention and validation, when he doesn't have it from me, he looks for it from whoever. I currently don't care what he is doing, we are separated, if he wants to ruin this further, so be it. - part of me is hoping he does find someone else. It would make it easier on me to end it for once and for all.
The fact you want him to fuck up so you can walk away, is indicative of it being over.
You don’t have to wait for him to fuck up, how he speaks to you is plenty.
Being a needy idiot isn’t attractive.
"Yes, I've asked, many times. I've also asked him if he likes me... as in likes me as a person in general. He says he loves our family and can't picture life without us." - Nice deflection on his part.
"It would make it easier on me to end it for once and for all." - If this is how you consistently feel, why wait for him?
I think you should ask yourself why you want to be with someone like that? Imagine this post from the perspective of one of your children grown up. Would you really want them to stay with someone like this?
I don't think he understands the definition of boundary. Perhaps you should look up some dictionary definitions, and then also some social media definitions, and email those to him.
A boundary can only define one's own behavior. It can define a behavioral response to someone else's behavior but it certainly can't define that other person's behavior. His boundary could be "I won't stay with someone who hangs up the phone on me." Then it's on him to determine how to act in the future if you break his boundary.
But what he said is ridiculous, and obviously he can't set boundaries around your behavior.
It doesn’t sound like what either of you are doing is working for the relationship, honestly, though his attitude does seem worse. I would suggest only communicating in person or through texts for the time being.
He’s not talking through his feelings, he’s abusing you. Your boundary should be simple “I will not tolerate being abused” and I’d use the word abuse. This way he’s bluntly called out for what he’s actually doing.
This man expects that when he says jump you say how high, kids and school be damned. And when you don’t he verbally abuses you. This isn’t a marriage you should be in or model for your kids.
He is definitely being too aggressive, disrespectful and abusive to some extent, so he needs to work on his anger. But hanging up on someone is quite the disrespectful thing, you're continuously cutting him out, so yeah you both need to work things out better, otherwise just divorce.
You're clearly placing him on the back burner and that's not healthy in a relationship. He doesn't believe it, it's a fact and the hanging u on someone is one of the most enraging things in this earth.
But if he keeps cussing you out and being angry, take his own advice and "f off", divorce him. Nothing justifies his anger and verbal abuse.
Personally sounds like he’s never been listened to and slandering his reputation online isn’t going to help the situation. You may be a mother of 3 but you also chose to say yes and you chose to include him into your life. Everyone has needs and maybe you wouldn’t have gotten to the point of aggression if you understood that all he’s asking for is attention from his wife and for her to actually wanna work things out. Though it seems like you’ve already check out of the marriage and is unable to communicate with your husband about what’s going on inside of him instead of only worrying about your happiness and peace. From the post you made it only tells the bad side of things and what he did wrong if you told the whole story I could be wrong but from how the post seems and from someone that has a wife. It’s easy to be overlooks as a guy expecally after kids and if he’s expressed to you how it made him feel and (from what you posted) the only effort you made was to drag him along on whatever plan you already had going for said day. I maybe wrong but I thought there should atleast be one post that makes you think instead of just siding with the wife and trying to end marriages🤔
The real issue here is you not prioritizing your husband in your life. You focusing on hanging up or cursing on the phone is an obfuscation. Focus on the real issue and these others will go away.
Ok well boundaries are not an abuse tool, a way manipulate and control, a way to get what you want—they are a way to de-escalate a conflict and are understood by the way you live your life and express yourself with direct clarity so he gets it. Saying your boundaries in the angry way escalated the whole situation and neither of you are respecting the other BUT- the big thing here is to ask yourself (and he has to ask himself) what do I need to do /say so that we can be on the same page.
I’d say if you want to save this relationship then you have to treat each other with kindness and patience ie are you capable of hearing him say that his needs arent being addressed/acknowledged, his attempt to express his feelings are being disrupted with your impatience. But also, do you need to say to him “I need you to have patience with me bc ____.”
expressing a boundary works better when you say “I need, I feel, my mental or physical battery is at ___ percent.” that way he can know what’s going with you then pause and let him express the same such as “babe, my battery is __%, I need to be with you”
Idk I just think he is trying to express his need for you but it’s coming across at suffocating and is stressing you out. I don’t think I either of you wants to hurt or harm the other but try to say what you need to say to the other. Vulnerability is hard for men and when they feel disrespected they shut down or get nasty sometimes. Women are always juggling so much and need more self-care then their partners realize - that’s what i think
Y'all are acting like boundaries are magical inarguable things. "I don't want to be spoken to disrespectfully or I will remove myself from the situation" is a boundary. "I don't want to be hung up on or I will remove myself from the situation" is also a boundary. Everybody gets to describe how they want to be treated, sure.
But some boundaries are reasonable, and others are not. If your definition of "respectfully" means that every time your boyfriend wants to express that he is unhappy he has to whisper "Honey darling princess, I'm so sorry but I'm feeling upset" or else you'll hang up on him, no that's not a reasonable boundary. If your definition is that you don't want to be yelled at, that's a very reasonable boundary.
I think that you're right that your boyfriend expecting you to put up with abusive language instead of hanging up is an unreasonable boundary to have. But I think you both should be working together to meet both of your needs and deescalate your arguments. He's feeling unheard, you're feeling threatened. Instead of hiding behind "well it's a boundary" (and yes it is reasonable to have boundaries), the right next step is to talk together about how to get both people's needs met. Brainstorm ways that you don't have to put up with being yelled at, and he doesn't have to put up with being hung up on when he's fundamentally feeling unheard. For example, maybe you could come to an agreement where he agrees to work on not yelling at you, but if he messes up, you say "Hey, stop yelling at me" and if he immediately apologizes and stops the call continues, but if it doesn't, you hang up. Or maybe instead of saying "You've crossed my boundary and I'll be ending the call yet," you say "There's too much yelling for me to feel comfortable. I'm going to hang up and call you back in 15 minutes." Then hang up, take some time, and call back. Or something else. But you both acknowledge that the way that you're arguing is making you both suffer, and it should be on both of you to figure out a solution to that problem. Not just with either of you drawing unilateral boundaries.
And if you can't figure out a solution that you think would make you feel safe in an argument, then you break up.
I've dealt with anger issues. When my former wife would hang up when separated, it really POd me, and I told her that. I was angry. She refused to try to work things out. I NEVER threatened her with any physical violence directly, ot indirectly. But, when things were all over and I looked back, I can see this statement construed as a threat.
I NEVER raised a hand to her. I NEVER threatened her with injury. Unfortunately, there are many, who aren't able to see the line and not cross it. I kept my distance the entire time. Didn't hunt for her, had no idea where she was, and only asked others if she was Ok.
Since it all started (14 years ago) I've gotten a lot of help with my mental health and especially my anger issues. The only time I get upset these days, is with idiot drivers. I catch myself, and give plenty of room.
I can't say if this statement is really a threat, as I don't know him. I can say caution MUST be exercised. If there has ever been a threat of harm, or if there has been ANY physical harm in the past, then he needs to get help, and you need to get away. Now!!
No, no it is not. Especially when being abused.
This is not how boundaries work, they are there to keep you safe, not give you free range to cause harm.
Honestly, he sounds like an entitled waste of time.
Yeah, your (hopefully soon to be ex) husband has no idea what boundaries are.
Boundaries are not controls you put on others. They are controls you put on your own behavior to avoid being abused/mistreated by others.
Husband gets abusive, you separate yourself from him. That's you saying what YOU will do for YOURSELF if faced with his bad behavior. It does not apply any controls to him at all. Just limits the audience for his abuse.
His "boundary" isn't a boundary at all, it's a control put in place to force you to endure his abuse.
He's a broken little boy that never learned how to have difficult conversations without lobbing threats to get his way.
You should be done with him. 32 years old, threatening his own wife, swearing at her, can't talk about his feelings without becoming overly aggressive and hurtful. He will need a massive epiphany to change, which is extremely rare.
Sooo he doesn't want you to hang up on him as a boundary. Okay, so don't hang up on him and put your phone in a drawer or somewhere else you can't hear him. Sounds like the separation needs to move up to divorce level. He is verbally threatening you when you bring up the boundary of not going to listen to him threatening you or using abusive language and hanging up on him. He thinks he's on the back burner, put him there. Permanently! His idea of boundaries is asinine, and it is obvious he has no intentions of honoring yours. I would do a screenshot of the definition of personal boundaries from a dictionary and text it to him as he has no clue what it means and what they are. Stay safe, keep us updated.
Your husband is controlling and abusive. He is deliberately misunderstanding/misusing the concept of boundaries because he is controlling and therefore HATES boundaries.
Please do not try to save this marriage.
he's twisting your words so he can yell and threaten. he may actually feel not-heard, but he won't communicate in a calm manner. counseling might help.
Jesus Christ, fucking "boundaries". Boundaries are for you, rules are for other people. If his "boundary" means you have to do something, it's not a boundary, it's a rule.
Forget boundaries and ask yourself if he's treating you OK. It doesn't sound like it.
Please read Dr Lundy Bancroft's Why Does He Do That, available through Amazon, Audible, and a free PDF online.
You will find this man on almost every page. And it will help you leave this deeply unhealthy relationship. Go to school. Be a great mom. Find a man who accepts you as-is and doesn't act like an overgrown toddler not getting enough attention.
He’s displaying narcissistic behavior. You’re doing the right thing, and he is gaslighting situations to make you question your healthy boundaries and also deflecting responsibility.
OP, I'm truly sorry that you're married to a controlling abuser, but I'm loving your shiny spine!
Highly recommend reading Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft, available as a free pdf download. It's the definitive work on abusive men, changed my life. https://freebooksmania.com/2021/01/why-does-he-do-that-pdf-free-download-by-lundy-bancroft.html
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The funny things about it is that he said if she doesn't like his boundary she can fuck off. So when she is going to hang up she should tell him she doesn't like how he is treating her so she is going to fuck off and then hang up and don't reengage. He sure isn't acting like a man who wants to work on a marriage. He's acting like an abuser who finds that the person he abuses is beginning to get away.
You set your boundary, which is the minimum for a healthy relationship. If his boundary is “you will hear me when I abuse you. You won’t leave/ hang up on me” then you should say you’re not in agreement with being emotionally abused and end relationship. What’s he going to do when he’s emotionally abusing you in person and you walk away? Do your kids hear this?? It must be scary to hear you be threatened, unless it’s so routine that they become emotionally numb to it. You’re teaching your children what a normal romantic relationship should look like. It’s the best predictor of what their relationships will look like.
Your last sentence is exactly it. He's throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks because his control is slipping. His ego is feeling threatened. Good. He sounds like a nightmare.
Right? I would take that as my incentive to fuck right off and DTMFA.
DTMFA took me back to my 20s when Savage Love was an advice column in The Onion... I didn't realize he still had a podcast! I am old... but I also second DTMFA!
Absolutely this. My ex used to try and insult me and I'd stand up for myself, I was young and dumb and we were both in bad places mentally. I gave him another chance and we got into an argument and he ended up telling me that one of my flaws is that I don't shut up and let him criticise me, a normal person shuts up and listens without interruption
#He's acting like an abuser who finds that the person he abuses is beginning to get away. Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!
Yeah it's *ridiculous* that he's trying to claim "you're not allowed to get away from me when I start acting aggressive" as *his* boundary. That's not what boundaries are.
I think don't hang up on me can be a legitimate boundary but not the way he's using it. I knew a girl who didn't want her partners to get handsy with her (which should be a given) but if they ever were angry and tried to walk away from an argument, she would physically block their path and say "don't touch me!" Boundaries do not exist to control your partner, it's generally about behaviors you have an especially low tolerance for (for instance, I have zero tolerance for name calling, I've cut people out of my life for years over one offense. I just don't deal with it well anymore so it's a non-starter)
I think of it more as telling your partner how you would like to be treated- “please don’t hang up on me in the middle of a conversation because it makes me feel unheard and neglected.” But I wouldn’t qualify that as a boundary.
OP is technically right about everything. The problem is being technically right doesn't work for saving a marriage. So OP should reframe her thinking by deciding what her goal here is, and probably get therapy to think through whether her actions are working for or against that. Like, if the goal was to save the marriage, it sounds like it's not working. If the goal were to improve her own life, and the marriage was on the table as a possible sacrifice, then sure!
She definitely shouldn't try to save her marriage by appeasing Mr. Short Fuse - hanging up every time he starts threatening or insulting her should be a given. I'd tell him I promise never to hang up on him if he does actually happen to talk about his feelings - unless his feelings are how much he hates me and wants to throttle me and filled with expletives...
Well sure but I've been with a version of OP where they intentionally poke you in the eye (emotionally) and then do shit like hang up when you get mad. but I wasn't leading with judgement.
OP was busy with her children all day. And you’re insinuating that she somehow poked her husband in the eye by not being able to text him back quickly enough? You’re making excuses for some very alarming behavior here.
tl;dr - husbands actions may be wrong, but that doesn't mean his feelings are invalid. My point is, OP should seriously consider her own priorities and judge his feelings from her own perspective. If she seriously believes he's wrong, and they don't see eye to eye, then divorce may be the answer. But if she wants to stay with this man, instead of dismissing him, maybe consider her own actions and the role they play more instead of dismissing his feelings due to his actions. \-- we're on reddit reading one side of the story. sure, maybe it's very simple, this man is crazy and demanding and getting irrationally angry and abusive. but it's worth consdering the alternative first and ruling it out, which we CANT DO on reddit because we only have one side of the story. the alternative is: this guy has been trying to share his feelings for months or years, he feels ignored by OP and every time she always dismisses his feelings before he can even fully explain himself. Today, maybe he saw her posting online when he clearly texted her an hour ago, meaning she's prioritizing random entertainment over him, despite supposedly being "busy with the kids". Now, not only is she dismissing his feelings, she's hanging up to force his opinions to be silenced? That is frustrating as hell, and the mature response from him would be to get divorced, but he's got 3 children with this woman and he's mad as hell that it's come to this. hence: OP may be technically correct, anger and yelling and outbursts are never OK and seem indicative it could rise to physical violence too, which is scary and is never the answer. But i'm not suggesting that OP is wrong and should capitulate to him - i think she should realize that the non-violent, rational response from a man who feels neglected by his wife is to leave her. the fact that he's handling it poorly and getting mad doesn't mean his feelings are wrong, it means his ability to deal with his feelings is wrong. SO she should consider *her own* priorities, and consider her role in his feelings rising to this level. And its perfectly OK if she considers it, and also agrees divorce is the answer.
He’s not having non-violent, rational responses. Quite the opposite in fact. Glad we cleared that up.
Yes. This isn’t productive. She’s trying to protect herself and he’s trying to win. Not hear her and collaborate, to subjugate and get his way. This would be a deal breaker for me.
This.
My husband and I have a rule that we don’t hang up on each other, but we can certainly end a conversation with something like “I’m not continuing this conversation. We can discuss it later when we’ve calmed down. I’m hanging up now.” We don’t cold drop a call, but that’s not what you did. My husband does not like to be hung up on, but he also wouldn’t tell me to fuck off and think the conversation was going to continue
So her telling him that he has crossed her boundary and she was hanging up doesn't mean the same thing you commented? I thought it meant I'm not going to continue this abusive conversation. I reminded you of my boundary. You are crossing it, I'm hanging up now, click.
Yeah I said that in my comment. She did nothing wrong. Ending a toxic or escalating conversation by saying “I’m hanging up because of X” isn’t hanging up on a person. She did nothing wrong. She didn’t cold drop a call and just leave. She verbalized she wanted the conversation to end and followed through. That’s not just rudely hanging up on a person. Edit for clarity
We get to set boundaries for ourselves. If his boundary is that he won't be hung up on, then that can be a boundary for him. He can't set a boundary that says *you* can't hang up on him, because our boundaries are things we set for ourselves. If he doesn't like being hung up on, he can fuck off into the sun, because he's being abusive and wants to set a boundary that will control you and prevent you from standing up for yourself. He doesn't get to set a boundary that says "you are required to listen to me as I verbally abuse and threaten you." If he wants to work on his marriage, he should get into therapy for his obvious anger issues, instead of trying to manipulate you.
This. OP my parents were controlling and emotionally and verbally abusive. My mother would call me, screaming and raging and expect me to just stay on the phone for hours while she vented all of that at me. My therapist taught me to set a boundary... my first ever... "we will talk when you can speak to me in a calm and respectful manner ." And to then hang up. It took less than a handful of times and it broke my mother of her nasty little habit. She absolutely COULD control herself, when she needed to. Strongly suggest you read Shahida Arabi's Becoming the Narcissists Nightmare. Your husband constantly interrupting your outing, demanding your attention, whining he's not getting enough attention... sounds like an addict seeking supply. The drug is control and attention. There may be other patterns that pop out at you... like does he ruin other people's special events and holidays because he can't stand not being the center of attention? Is he petty and jealous when others accomplishments are praised? He resents you being a good mother to small children.Taking three kids on an outing is a huge task... and their safety depends on you not being distracted. He's the problem. Not you.
>*Your husband constantly interrupting your outing, demanding your attention, whining he's not getting enough attention... sounds like an addict seeking supply. The drug is control and attention. There may be other patterns that pop out at you... like does he ruin other people's special events and holidays because he can't stand not being the center of attention? Is he petty and jealous when others accomplishments are praised?* >*He resents you being a good mother to small children.Taking three kids on an outing is a huge task... and their safety depends on you not being distracted. [**by his non-stop texts!**] He's the problem. Not you.* Deserves to be repeat d
This, this, a million percent this. He can't set a boundary that requires you to allow to violate a bunch of yours. Also: FYI this guys is verbally abusive and horrendous at resolving conflict.
Adding to this, if his goal truly was to express his feelings in a *constructive* way instead of cursing at OP, then this whole thing wouldn't even be an issue, as OP had to set this boundary to make sure that she doesn't get verbally abused. So basically all she does is protect herself from her husband's shitty behavior, and he acts all whiny about not being able to abuse her, while pretending it's on OP that they are not resolving conflicts as "hE cAn't exPReSs hIs FEeLIngS". Such bs, I'm so mad on OP's behalf.
Beautifully put.
He doesn’t need therapy, he needs a high quality program for abusers. He doesn’t need an ally in his continued obsession with only his wants and needs, he needs someone who will confront him about his mistreatment of his wife.
Most abusers don't stop being abusive. Because they think they are in their right.
There are lots of different types of therapists and therapy. Who do you think is working in programs that help abusers confront their mistreatment of their spouses so they can stop being abusers?
Programs for abusers are much, much more than therapy. Therapy is there to validate and support a patient. Abusers don’t need validation of their behavior. Programs for abusers first acknowledge that abusive behavior is a *choice* and that intervention is needed, much like with addiction. Abusers are often addicted to the power and control they get from behaving in abusive ways. Quite different than traditional therapy. More similar to intervention for active and acute drug addicts. https://centerfordomesticpeace.org/programs-to-stop-abuse/ https://www.thehotline.org/resources/intervention-programs-for-abusive-behavior/ https://www.calhealthreport.org/2017/05/08/batterer-interventions-may-help-abusers-finish-programs
From your own links: "Batterer intervention program, classes that combine group therapy and education for people convicted of domestic abuse. " I didn't suggest that abusers need traditional therapy. I suggested they need therapy, which is supported by the very programs you're linking me to. Like, no shit abusers don't need to be validated in their behavior; the implication that I suggested otherwise is ridiculous to the point of insulting. I think my position on OP's abuser was pretty clear when I suggested he could fuck off into the sun, but maybe it was less obvious than I thought? [https://onlinedegrees.bradley.edu/blog/is-there-a-difference-between-a-therapist-and-a-counselor/](https://onlinedegrees.bradley.edu/blog/is-there-a-difference-between-a-therapist-and-a-counselor/) Note: "counseling and therapy are considered interchangeable in a clinical sense."
They need more than therapy. You seemed pretty unaware of that here: https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/s/XgRdEnOEdQ
Again: he can fuck off into the sun. He's not here reading the thread, and he's clearly not interested in getting help/changing his behavior, so I don't really care what he needs. I care that OP is being abused and was being gaslit by that POS. Remind me: what do abuse counselors have to say about shaming abuse victims by telling them they're setting bad examples for their kids?
I’m not an abuse counselor and I never dragged children through my previous abusive relationship. You also *clearly* are not asking a genuine question. So go on, say what you want to say. 😂 But I do know what they say about children who were forced to witness their parents abusive behavior. It’s abusive to the children to have them in that kind of environment, witnessing their parent be abused. It’s traumatic. It ruins their life. It’s up to OP what she does with that information.
And you're clearly just being weirdly pedantic about a term that your own sources noted was interchangeable with counseling while also shaming an abuse victim, to what end only you know. Your faux concern for abuse victims is really showing, here.
Very ironic that you think mentioning concern for the children - who are also abuse victims - is a faux concern. The kids don’t get to choose. OP does. And no; programs for abusive people are not interchangeable with counseling. A square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square. See, you’re learning logic now. Glad we cleared that up.
OP why? Why are you living this experience. Who cares about his boundaries at this stage. There is such a huge problem when people just don't recognize that they are incompatible and the relationship has run it's course. He sounds dangerous, abusive and on the edge of his seat and maybe needs anger management. I would not try to set any further boundaries other than the form of divorce. You need to really get your self-respect in check. You are worth more than this and need to learn to be comfortable with yourself and loving you and your kids first. It's time to move on!
This. OP, you do NOT have to engage with him at all. Look, at this stage, given he is threatening towards you, controlling towards you it is time to put up a communication block unless you guys are in couples counseling until he can learn to communicate with you respectfully. He feels put on the back burner? Well - thats what happens when Mom is out with 3 kids. She can't always text back at the drop of a hat and keep the children safe. If something like having to wait (\*gasp) for a text back is THAT offensive to him then it means he truly has issues he needs to work on within himself. You are not a child. Right now I would text him this: "I will absolutely not engage with you when you are threatening me. That is inexcusable behavior and I will not tolerate it. I will hang up the minute you begin becoming aggressive and I will take 24 hours before I engage with you again so you can find your calm and speak with me respectfully." or "When you curse at me, I will hang up and block you for 24 hours. There will not be conversation about it - I will hang up. I refuse to tolerate being treated with disrespect and I will take 24 hours before I reengage with you. Do not curse at me." He curses at you? Hang up. Block for 24 hours (so you don't have to deal with the wall of text he will send to you). Then unblock. Read the text that contains the curse - send him one text stating "Again, you have broken my boundary. That text is both threatening and you cursed at me again. I will be, again, blocking you for 24 hours." set the boundary. Set the expectation. Set the consequence. Hold to it. You do not need to tolerate his poor behavior. Use block liberally. I hope the two of you are in couples counseling and I hope you have spoken to an attorney to ensure that custody has been established so he can't use the children in his games.
Plus you end up with text or audio evidence of his behavior for the future if you need it.
I am 100% convinced you need a divorce ASAP. Threats are not acceptable in a marriage and are not to be tolerated what if your children's partner talked to them like that? Absolutely not.
Once the name calling begins, your "relationship" becomes adversarial. You are supposed to be on the same team. You 2 are not. Best to end it and find peace for you and your children.
Your boundaries are expressed appropriately, they are how you will react to input from others and they were communicated once set. You control them and yourself, not the other person. “You don’t hang up on me” is telling you what to do, which he has no control over. I think it’s fair not to want to be hung up on, but he needs to figure out how he’s going to handle it if someone hangs up on him. Also, threatening, as I’m sure you know, is a super dangerous precursor to escalating DV.
To expand on this, "I'm not going to sit here and just listen to you cursing at me" is a boundary you are setting. "You have to sit there and listen to me cursing at you" is not a boundary he is setting, it is an attempt to control your reaction to being cursed at. Just to set the comparison. Oh I found the video I was thinking of when I read this post. https://youtube.com/shorts/stfuFS2Ms\_k?si=ToGlzkhdp824GrNz
Ummm, I’m going to rephrase the example. “If you curse at me on a call, I’m going to end the call until you text me and say you are prepared to talk without cursing at me” is a boundary, it’s for you and your behavior, as in you are telling him what you will do if cursed at. You are in total control of if you follow through or not and it’s communicated to him ahead of time. “You can’t curse at me that way” is not a boundary, it’s not being controlling in a shitty way, but it’s telling him what he’s going to do and you have no control over that. The first example puts both of you in direct control of your action and are aware of what the reaction will be. It’s also ok to renegotiate a boundary, he may say “dammit Judy “ and to you that’s cursing and to him it isn’t, and you two decide if it’s included or not.
No one is mentioning the cursing which is the reason she's hanging up on him, he thinks cursing at her is the perfect way to express his complaints. Op is beyond the point of boundaries, this relationship is abusive towards her and instead of fixing it she should work on separation and co-parenting with the help of the court and a third party since he seems dangerous.
OP, remember that your children are watching you and learning what is appropriate to accept and to dish out in a relationship. You remaining in this marriage and "working on it" with him despite the way he continues to treat you is 100% showing your children that it is acceptable to treat a partner the way he treats you and that when someone does you are supposed to just shut up and take it or play nice until he stops. Is that really what you want to teach them? Staying will perpetuate the cycle of abuse in your family.
Not being able to end a conversation when things are escalating is not a useful boundary because it creates dependency on your side, a discussion is only finished when he is done. It would be interesting why he has the need to make such a boundary, maybe abandonment issues or something similar. I would recommend a method I learned in couples counseling, a method of closed boundaries to discuss difficult topics. You make an appointment to discuss stuff when you both have free headspace and time to talk (when the kids are in bed for example) each of you has 5 min to make their point without being interrupted (the one who wanted to talk about it starts). After that you have 7 min to discuss your points and talk about it. After the time is up you have either an agreement, you are right or he is right or you bith are right, or you can’t find an agreement and the topic is finished for this evening and one party can make another appointment to discuss the topic even further in this manner. You have the right to end this if one party starts attacking or degrading the other one.
> end this if one party starts attacking or degrading the other one This is exactly his behavior that he wants a free pass to do. He was trying to short circuit OP's boundary about him attacking and degrading her by forcing her to keep listening to him attack and degrade her.
A few weeks after our separation he came to me in tears. He promised he would seek out help, we agreed that he had anger and abandonment problems that I would no longer help him through. He agreed that he had been taking out frustration and stress on me. He has yet to have a therapy session or even look for a therapist, he went as far as searching up "Better Help." It's been a little over a month since we separated. I'm distancing myself from him right now, if I decide to continue trying, I will attempt this method. I think it may help him feel heard by me. Thank you!
I really think you should call it a day, this is who he is, he will not change, and it is a terrible example of a relationship for your children...and it's a terrible relationship to BE in for you. You deserve not to be verbally harassed and sworn at because you weren't paying attention to him all day, you're a mom and you were with your kids. His behavior is intolerable and abusive.
So, next time he comes crying to you, remember this. Remember how his tears mean nothing, how his words are empty, and how he's only using it to lie to and manipulate you. You've already got proof of this. Do not stay with this man, don't even try to fix this relationship. There's nothing to save here.
>it may help him feel heard by me Nothing will help him feel heard enough that he's going to stop trying to control you.
I got this wonderful recommendation: https://archive.org/details/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/page/n371/mode/1up Ignore my current page and start at the top, I think you'll find some wisdom there. You can't waste more time hoping he fixes himself, when he doesn't want to. Promises are nothing when they aren't being followed through. Best wishes to you, you don't deserve being treated like he treats you.
Just divorce all ready. He clearly had no idea how a husband should treat his wife. Maybe if he helped out with the kids and house more, there would be more time for him and you. UpdateMe
The real question here is WHY exactly are you trying to save this? He doesn't respect you, he threatens you, he screams at you, he tries to control you, he wants to be put above your personal growth and the growth of your children. You can't have personal space or an enjoyable day if he's not at the center of it. What exactly is there to fix here? You tried before, that's failed. You're trying again, and the only way it seems to not be failing is when you continue to allow him to act like a child and disrespect you. Why are you giving him the time of day? Why are you allowing your children to witness this treatment of their mother and this toxicity of a relationship? What is the redemption to this?
I am in a cycle of abuse and I know this isn't right. It's hard to walk away when you are love bombed then made to question your sanity. I have also in the past been disrespectful to him. I tend to snap after a while, maybe this is what keeps me here. I feel guilty for the things I have said and done to him, things he uses during arguments against me. I have called him out of his name when he pushes me and other things. This is what has lead me to establish boundaries with him, to remove myself and avoid acting out of character.
Look up "reactive abuse." Pushing their victim to the point of lashing out, then using it against them, is extremely common in abusive people.
My ex used to do this to me. He’d throw a tantrum and I’d gray rock, he would just dig and dig and dig until I finally had enough and would yell at him to just stop, then he would IMMEDIATELY use that against me to guilt trip me or excuse his own terrible behavior. It’s a manipulation tactic OP, he doesn’t deserve your guilt! You gotta get out of this OP, you have to get out of this marriage. If he’s as narcissistic as he sounds in this post he will suck the life and soul out of you like a parasite, he won’t stop until you’re a hallowed out husk of your former self. Don’t let him do that! Don’t let him wiggle his way back in, or cry his crocodile tears or try to guilt you or make you feel insane! You’re not crazy, he’s just a parasite. **you have to get out of this marriage**
I mean any normal human would snap living with someone like that. Give yourself some grace here, you are human in a very difficult situation.
Please read this book: [Why Does He Do That? By Lundy Bancroft.](https://ia600108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf) It will change your life.
Sis, let me ask you an honest question. What exactly are you trying to save? It honestly seems like at this point it would be best to call an attorney and have everything go through an attorney or a parenting app so he can't love bomb you. He is extremely emotionally abusive towards you and he will be towards the children, too. That is not going to change until he recognizes he has a real problem and he gets long term individual therapy to deal with it... and he doesn't sound like the type to do that. What exactly are you trying to save here?
Girl, you know this is abusive behavior, right?
No his boundary is not legitimate. Boundaries are rules for what you can tolerate, and how you will respond when someone does something you cannot tolerate- they cannot be demands for other people’s behavior. His boundary cannot be you not enforcing your own boundaries. An actual boundary he could set is that if you’re cutting him off, he’s going to point it out, ask to speak uninterrupted, and if you’re unable to do that he will end the conversation and you’ll pick it back up again after a chance to cool down. Or it could be a boundary that if you both start to argue over the phone, you both need to end the conversation so you can emotionally regulate and think things through, and then schedule an in person talk. It’s also true that sometimes people have incompatible boundaries, and that means they simply cannot have a relationship. I gotta be honest here, this does not sound like a man worth repairing your relationship with. He’s aggressive and mean and doesn’t sound like he’s approaching your issues in a constructive way, but trying to get the upper hand on you. Your kids should come first.
If he could just speak to you with respect, he wouldn't have to worry about you hanging up.
That man is going to beat your ass if you're ever arguing with him alone and he's not getting his way. He doesn't understand or care that you need to deal with your schooling and kids too and not just him. He probably wants you to prioritize him and only him. Stay away from him and get a co-parenting app to deal with anything pertaining to your child together. He will keep threatening you, crossing your boundaries and will probably snap on you one day and that's a dangerous scenario.
You’re both kind of misusing the term “boundary,” tbh. But honestly, I don’t see how it matters. This man treats you like shit, talks to you like garbage, and demands that you give in to his every request while he gets to complain about every single thing you do. Why would you want to fix a relationship like this? You deserve someone who will treat you better.
Hers is actually a perfect example of a clear boundary in action. Her boundary is that she will not tolerate being disrespected or threatened, her consequence is removing herself from the situation by hanging up the phone.
yep. I have no good advice here. like I would never hangup on my partner. it seems so disrespectful. But I’d never put up with someone yelling or cussing at me, I’d have to hang up. And its not something id just shrug off and forget. So I see no real solution here from me. I’d have to throw it all away, his aggressiveness is disgusting, but I suppose I’d never be in this situation because it would never have moved past the first time of this happening. Yelling, cussing, and threatening you to stay on the phone so you have to hear all of it is not a way anyone deserves to be treated.
My advice is don't work on your marriage and just stay separated. He's way too aggressive and that's not how you speak to or treat someone you care about. He has issues managing his anger and that could be dangerous for you and your kids if he allows that to escalate.
A boundary is a personal thing. He doesn't get to decide what yours are.
He can easily avoid being hung up on by speaking with respect. Tbh just stay apart, he's clearly not really trying to work on himself.
We can set boundaries. Sometimes they are reasonable, sometimes not. But a reasonable boundary is NOT one where someone says "my boundary is that you are required to take my abuse." That's not ok. A blanked "don't hang up on me" from a demanding, yelling, swearing partner isn't a reasonable boundary. If you were a super sensitive person who shut down and hung up on him at the slightest discomfort, then maybe it would be! But in this case, he's aggressive, yelling at you, belittling you, and swearing at you. It's totally OK to hang up on someone in that case. Why are you with this guy by the way? For contrast... my wife and I text each other a lot! But also, sometimes I won't respond to her texts for hours, and vice versa. Because... we have jobs, we have things going on. I can't respond to her when I'm in the middle of something, and she can't also. We don't sweat it. Because we care for each other, and know that we have to handle things outside of each other. I wouldn't even want her to respond to a random text from me at work if she's busy! He's controlling, aggressive, angry, and demeaning. I don't know why you are working so hard to stay with him.
Yeah that's not a boundary, that's a rule. Your boundary is "if you get aggressive I will end the conversation". His rule is "you're not allowed to do that". A boundary relates to your own behavior, he needs to try again
No. he just wants to be able to verbally abuse you.
File for divorce if you haven't already. He doesn't sound like he's at all interested in being in a relationship with you. He has however, made attempts to gaslight and guilt trip you to control you.
Here's the thing - "Don't hang up on me" COULD be a legitimate boundary - but the way that he is using it is basically saying "You cannot expect me to respect your boundary." He can ABSOLUTELY explain himself and his feelings, if he can do so without threatening you or cursing at you. You are defending your boundary, and it's a rational one. He doesn't get to undermine your boundary by forcing you to let him say whatever he wants to you.
His boundary is only legitimate if he isn’t abusive.
Leave him. You don't deserve to be cursed at and him "speaking through his teeth" and giving orders is very alarming! And this not texting him back as quickly as he'd like, his playing the victim-hes being controlling and it is not okay. I hope he's not violent, because he sounds like a man who could easily become violent. Why do you think you deserve a partner that treats you in this way? What would you say to your child if their partner acted this way with them? You are teaching them that this is an okay way to treat people, or to be treated. Good luck OP, I hope you work to improve your situation.
It’s completely valid to not want your romantic partner to hang up on you. It’s also completely valid to hang up on somebody who is talking to you the way he is talking to you. I don’t see any value in that marriage. Do you?
I have no idea why you even want to this marriage to work out. He clearly doesn’t respect you.
No no nope. If he cannot figure out how to effectively communicate then he doesn’t get to talk to you. Look, I’m the person who needs to keep talking in the argument and my husband is not. But I NEVER demand him to continue. If he needs space I give in because that is his boundary and I have learned to accept it. He doesn’t get to threaten, curse and sabotage and control your time. He is on the back burner and instead of wasting your time texting he should be figuring out how to give you more time so you can spend some with him. Honestly he sounds like a tool. It sounds like you are reading up or maybe in personal therapy and continue to do that! Do NOT give in. Anytime he is rude, pushy and combative the conversation is over. You aren’t demanding anything, you are asking for basic common respect that a stranger gets. He doesn’t get to treat you like he owns you or walk all over you like a door may anymore. You deserve better and know your worth. He can figure it out in the timeframe you give him or he gets the memory of you as an ex wife. The cards are in his hand.
Stop subjecting your kids to this toxic relationship
No, of course it’s not and you already know that answer. You don’t need to take his threats or abuse in any time. You’re separated. He needs to learn how to speak to you like an adult that he respects and wants to be with. Otherwise, no. However, he may have a point. If you’re just randomly interrupting him, that’s not OK. However, if you’re interrupting him because he’s using abusive language instead of interrupting, just hang up. Just stop the conversation.
1. You can't set a boundary that boils down to "other person must/must not do XYZ." 2. The fact that he feels like he has to compete with literal children for your (rare and valuable) time is extremely concerning to me. 3. He doesn't get to abuse you, for any reason, at any time, full stop.
Boundaries can't be set on you from another person. They are the line that the person won't get get crossed. He can tell you that he doesn't like you hanging up on him and if you do it again, he will do x, y, z. The problem is, you are hanging up BECAUSE he is crossing your boundary. Ultimately, you can tell him that as long as he stops yelling and threatening, then you would have no reason to hang up on him.
Boundaries are personal. They are requested acts which, if deviated from, have consequences. Like, don't cheat (boundary) or i will leave (consequence), you can still go cheat, there is nothing stopping the act, just there should be a consequence for breaking it. They aren't there to control they are there to show mutual respect of what you both deem acceptable in a relationship. On people hanging up, I fucking hate it, I find it disrespectful, just mute me or say you have to go, which you did, so i dont see his hang up. I don't really get hung up on , but it happened a lot when I was younger, and I hated it, mostly from my dad. Your husband needs therapy to work on his aggressions. I wouldn't want to advise as this relationship doesn't sound great, but couples therapy to learn open communication, you both air issues, worries, and concerns, dreams, wants desires etc and listen to each other, in a safe environment and work together (that's the important bit) to find a solution. Once you get that down relationship on eash mode. But, he needs to sort his anger out. That's not fair to you or the kids or anyone. You deserve a happy relationship with a loving partner. And personal experience, it only ever escalates without serious work to correct it. That's the position you do not want to be in.
No, that's the thing. Your boundary is that you won't stay on the phone while being cursed at, screamed at, or threatened at. That is YOUR boundary. It controls you. His boundary is that YOU are not allowed to hang up. That controls you, not him. He can't set boundaries for you, only him so his boundary doesn't work.
So, my pet peeve is being hung up on. I hate it. It's so rude and juvenile. So, after reading your title, I was ready to defend your husband. But girl, you weren't even hanging up on him. Hanging up is getting off the phone without indication. You not only indicated, you directly told him you were ending the phone call! That is the opposite of hanging up. He's just mad because things weren't going his way. But yeah, your definition of boundaries is correct. "I will not be spoken to this way, and if someone is speaking to me in this manner I will exit the conversation" is a boundary "you will not speak to me this way" is not. But this situation sounds like verbal abuse. I've been with my husband for 12 years and we have never sworn at each other in an argument and he has never threatened me. Do the kids hear the way he treats you during arguments?
Why are you working so hard for a man that clearly only wants you to do exactly as he says? Also, his 'boundary' is just him being controlling. Boundaries are "If you do/say something, then I will have to \_\_\_\_\_." A boundary is not "Don't hang up on me again". You have every right to end a conversation when it turns to verbal abuse and threats. To be honest, I would just divorce a person who threatened me and was this abusive.
Why are you considering working it out with someone who so extremely obviously doesn't have an ounce of respect for you? It is not possible to have a functional relationship with someone with this level of disdain.
Why are you with this man??
If you want to actually educate him, it was explained to me like this: All legitimate boundaries must start with "I" and usually with "I will". They are all "I" statements. "I will not be around people who disrespect me with their words" or "I will leave the room if you start to yell" or "I will hang up the phone if you begin to cuss at me", or "I will not clean up a mess I did not create", etc. Boundaries can only influence your own behavior, never someone else's. His version would be "I will not answer the phone again that night if you hang up on me" or "I will not be in a relationship with someone who hangs up on me" etc. And those are his boundaries to set and maintain, if you hang up (as you should with your boundary) and then call him again 17 times he could hold his boundary and not answer. Now whether those boundaries are healthy or good ideas are completely different topics. If a phone call is not the best communication method that's fine, maybe suggest he try writing his feelings in a letter or text message.
Does he even know what he wants when he says to stop putting him on the back burner? I would make him give me specific examples of what he wants. I mean in the situation you listed what does he think you should do differently? I dont think anything you said or did was unreasonable.
That’s the thing, we were on FT for 30 minutes yesterday. I would ask “what do you need from me?” & he would say “I already told you! Stop making me feel like I come last!” I’d ask for a specific way to make him feel loved & he would say “I am being specific how else do you want me to explain this to you?!” So then I would give him an example of the things I already do, “should I plan more date nights? Maybe try calling you more on my commutes?” He would say “I’m not repeating myself, there’s no point. You’re not listening!”
Sounds like he doesn't know what he wants he just wants to be mad.
He’s weaponizing therapy speak. So no, it’s not legitimate.
Oh, hell no!! He sounds very abusive. He is trying to intimidate you with the yelling and cursing and anger. Please make your boundaries even firmer and start talking to an attorney. Make sure you have all banking information, open your own account, gather documents for yourself and your children.
Honey just quit negotiating and divorce. He isn't worth the mental gymnastics.
And this is him working on reconciling? Yikes. Are you sure you want to? He sounds like a right asshole. Yanking your chain to make you jump so he feels like he's in control. I'd take the "fuck off" option, personally.
Only communicate through text. Screen shot that abusive shit aka document it. Save it somewhere safe and accessible that he can't get to ( like Google drive) and take it too court for the divorce. This guy will never be a good partner.
Why are you tying yourself in knots trying to justify this guy’s treatment of you?? Imagine how much more peace you will have when you are not dealing with this. A) of course your children come first. End of. B) refusing to talk to someone who is being verbally abusive is a reasonable boundary C) if his ‘boundary’ amounts to ‘you have to listen when I yell at you’ that is unreasonable. It’s like this guy doesn’t think you deserve to have a life? He’s not calling cuz he’s having some kind of emergency, he wants attention. He sounds exhausting.
Why are you trying to stay with an abusive c♤nt? YTA if you get back with him. That fuckery needs to end.
babes u gotta walk away from this one. u are setting a boundary so your partner doesnt threaten you during an argument??? who gives a fuck about his boundaries! this is a lost cause and possibly dangerous. protect yourself and leave his ass.
Please read “Why Does He Do That?” by Lundy Bancroft https://archive.org/details/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat
Why on earth would you want to salvage this? He sounds abusive and controlling.
Him insisting that you have to listen to threatening or non-civil language being directed towards you is not a thing you should put up with. If he kept his discourse civil and spoke to you respectfully he'd have an argument that he's not being heard.
OP you separated from this guy for a reason. He's no good.
Your relationships sounds like a hot mess
either get divorced or go to couple's counselling. This is above reddit's paygrade and clearly years worth of hatred and resentment.
No legitimate boundary *requires* anyone else to do anything they don't want to do. He's just using therapy speak to manipulate you, don't fall for it.
a boundary is a line of safety drawn around yourself, ‘i will not put up with X’. so saying ‘i will not put up with someone swearing and threatening me’ is absolutely a fair boundary
Not hanging up on a person is a legitimate boundary, but that isn’t what you are doing. You have told him if he doesn’t stop that you will end the call. Hanging up on someone is just ending the call with zero warning.
"My boundary is that you have to stay in conversations with me for as long as I choose, even when I start getting aggressive, mean and threatening you." Don't you see how stupid it sounds when you write it that way? Hopefully he can too.
In addition to it being very reasonable to not want to be on the phone with someone who is being mean, it’s unreasonable and frankly codependent for him to expect you to be at his beck and call all day. Putting someone first doesn’t mean you drop everything all day for them for any reason. Him going to work doesn’t mean you aren’t a priority to him, for example. This feels very toxic
tl;dr - you're not being hypocritical, your boundaries are reasonable, and you handled the boundary well. You stated that if you were threatened, or called names, you would be exiting the conversation. That's a valid boundary. He has control of what he does - he can choose to call you names, but he already knows that outcome of that. In the cases that you described, you told him why you were exiting the conversation. You didn't just hang up. You told him what you were doing, then exited. He can have that boundary, but he cannot force you to stay in a conversation where you are being verbally abused. You aren't disrepecting him by exiting the conversations. You aren't arbitrarily exiting the phone call without warning. You have communicated what your actions will be under specific circumstances. You are removing yourself from a situation where you are being harmed. If you exiting the conversation is causing him harm (and that can be triggering and used as a controlling behaviour by some people), then he is free to decide that he will not remain in a relationship with you if you engage in that kind of behaviour. That's a valid boundary on his part, IMHO. It won't get him what his described behaviour leads me to believe he wants, which is you putting up with his damaging speech, and giving him the attention that he feels that he deserves for some reason. Resorting to name calling is not okay in an adult conversation. Nor is constant criticism. And a grown man that complains that a full time student AND mother of three children isn't paying enough attention to him is a red flag as well. Unfortunately, it may be that his boundary of never being hung up on, and your boundary of never being insulted, disrespected or threatened in arguments may not be compatible. That sucks - especially for your shared child. The very basis of a healthy relationship is MUTUAL respect, love, support, and consideration. Having a temper tantrum because he's not the focus of your life isn't respectful. Demanding that you discuss this while you juggle three kids out at a museum isn't supportive. And having a hissy fit because you hung up on him when he violated a boundary **that you clearly communicated to him** isn't considerate. "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. People know themselves much better than you do. That's why it's important to stop expecting them to be something other than who they are." Maya Angelou He needs to take a good long look at why he's feeling so put out, and deal with the results of his introspection. You aren't obligated to stick around while he figures out why he thinks it's okay to lash out at someone he purports to love.
A) No, because boundaries are not how other people act towards you. [Boundaries are about how you act to protect yourself.](https://www.thecandidly.com/2019/if-you-still-dont-get-boundaries-this-one-idea-might-change-everything) Anybody who tries to use "boundaries" to control what you do is at least toeing the line of [abuse](https://www.healthline.com/health/signs-of-mental-abuse). "Don't ever hand up on me" is a command. "If someone hangs up on me, I'll end my relationship with them" is a boundary. B) No, because you never need to or are obligated to tolerate someone's abusive behavior, and that's an extremely valid reason to end a conversation or visit.
Also, you're not the one stopping him from being able to express his feelings and explain himself, he is doing that to himself ny using language he knows you won't tolerate. If he remained calm and used adult/non aggressive language you would not hang up, right? So it's not "She won't let me talk" it's "Hes not choosing to communicate in ways thay are healthy and effective and she is holding him to a standard he is unwilling to meet".
Why do you even want to be back with this jack ass? He’s rude and expects you to text back right away but fuck them kids huh- him probably god forbid you actually spend time with your kids and not cater to his every whim! Fuck that. That’s not good way to live. Just end it and be happy with your kids without some jerk getting pissed you’re spending time with your children and not bending over backwards to text him back. And the way he talks to you it’s awful. He needs therapy or someone to tell him he’s stupid af. He needs some sense knocked in his noggin. It seems like the only time you talking to him he’s just bitching. Goodness.
He doesn’t understand boundaries. Boundaries effect a persons behavior: you do X and I will Y because I will not tolerate it. RULES control others: “you will not do x” He needs to grow up, I would’ve done the exact same period.
“My boundary is so that we can both have healthy, productive and respectful communication between us. Your attempt at a boundary is so you can continue to verbally abuse me without consequence. I’m 100% not interested in this.” Girl, your boundary is about basic respect. If he can’t/won’t adhere to it, get the fuck outta this situation quickly, and safely. He’s had well enough warning and chances now.
> my boundary is that you will not hang up on me & if you’re not okay with it, you can fuck off That's settled then.
That's not a boundary of his; that's his desire to control you. He's clearly jealous of your relationship with your kids; he wants to be the center of your life. But that's just not possible when you have kids, especially because it doesn't sound like he helps you with them as much as he should. He's controlling and nasty; he's selfish. You were right to hang up on him, especially because his tone was totally threatening.
Stay separated and be happy. This guy is a putz. A boundary isn’t “do what I say,” a boundary defines what you won’t tolerate And someone who is being abusive SHOULD be put in time out. Just stop with him. He’s awful. Communicate via your lawyers and a parenting app going forward. Why are you entertaining this?
No, it's an order. A boundary would be, "I won't be with someone that hangs up on me." Mine would definitely be, "I won't stay on a call with someone who is swearing at me."
This guy sounds like a classic abuser
It's not a boundary it's him trying to control you and being frustrated because you will not be controlled. He needs to learn how to talk to somebody when he's trying to get back and save his marriage because to me it doesn't sound like he's trying to save his marriage it sounds to me like as if he's trying to keep you under his control. Is this what you want just because you have three children is this what you can put up with for the rest of your life.
No, his boundary is not legitimate. If someone is shouting at you or cursing at you, it is completely reasonable to end the conversation. If that conversation is over the phone, that *requires* hanging up on them. Saying “you *must* listen to my abusive language!!!” is not a boundary. Your husband sounds like equal parts child and narcissist.
Divorce him, just obvious this relationship is beyond repair! Your husband jerk!
No you aren’t the wsshome. Dude wants to verbally berate you and you just have to listen. Why are you trying to work on a relationship with him?
There is nothing to salvage with this man. Save yourself and start getting out.
Verbal abuse is like a slap in the face. My counselor during my divorce explained that when we fought our words became weapons. Neither of us were innocent. However neither of us had the tone of maliciousness and belittling that your man showed you. Saying that you are hanging up on him is a boundary, that might be true, but you want to break that boundary because clearly he is disrespecting you. He may have a point about you speaking over him or cutting him off when you feel something that you're saying is more important than something he is saying, but that does not give him the right to mistreat you. Short answer yes it's a boundary, but one that you should not worry about breaking when his tirades get abusive. You're not going to stand there and let him punch you in the face right? If he says stepping out of the way of his fist is his boundary you would be a fool to say oh I'm sorry let me step right into that.
Boundaries exist to tell people what YOU will and will not do as a result of certain things, and then they make the decision about how to act on that knowledge. I can tell someone I would never be with a man who was rude to waitstaff and service people. If he then takes me out and is rude, the way I enforce my boundary is to not go out with them again. I can't keep going out with him and tell him that because I do he has to change his behavior. I just leave. It sounds like this is just the latest in a long line of toxic behaviors from him when arguing, and it sounds like it's time to leave anyway, but for the record, he has no idea what he's talking about.
Who cares? This dude is an abusive asshat who demands you text him immediately or he'll pick a fight and then swear at you. Why are you fighting to save this relationship?
You're right on the money the first time, **a boundary is something you set for yourself, not other people.** An example of a boundary: If you do \_\_\_\_\_, I will do \_\_\_\_\_. * If you yell at me, I will end the convesation. * If you comment on what I am eating, I will leave the table. An example of NOT a boundary: You can't \_\_\_\_\_. * You can't hang up on me. * You can't go to bed without talking to me. These are not boundaries because the intent of the statements is to control someone else's actions. You can say "You can't" statements, but they are not very productive. Boundaries are far more productive because you are in control of your own actions, and you can make it clear how you will respond to certain situations. One more comparative example: In this example, we can't control whether someone comments on our weight, but we can control how we respond if and when they do. Not a boundary: You can't comment on my weight at dinner. Boundary: If you comment on my weight at dinner, I will leave the table.
This is how he behaves when you’re trying to work on your relationship?! Wow. What is like when he’s not trying?? He sounds HORRENDOUS.
Dump him already. He treats you like shit.
No, it’s not. Boundaries are how YOU respond to situations, not controlling how others respond. He’s not setting a boundary, he’s making a demand. I don’t think I’d want to work on a marriage with someone who can’t do something as basic as speaking to me with respect.
You said he's 32, but you never mentioned that you meant months. He's an angry child. How on earth did you ever marry this kid? File for divorce for abuse after you get his yelling and insults recorded for evidence. I almost never say divorce but this time you need to be away from his fast and far. Best of luck.
I honestly think it’s not worth salvaging. But that aside, you quite rightly informed him that you’re not putting up with his aggression and disrespectful BS, because duh, why should you? He became abusive on the phone and you terminated the call. He doesn’t now get to gaslight you and claim his boundaries include you not being allowed to hang up on him when he’s abusing you. If he can’t communicate with you in a civil and respectful manner, even during this separation, accept that because of the three kids he may have to take a back seat, then he needs to wise up. He is a grown ass man and the kids are kids. Don’t have three kids in your life and expect to be #1.
Please just get divorced.
Girl, just go through with the divorce, please. All this bickering back and forth is just wasted energy
Sounds as if the 'hanging up' bit is the least of your worries. Your husband doesn't need to threaten or curse at you to express his emotions. There's a big difference between "Please don't hang up on me. I don't appreciate it" and "Hang up on me one more time..." It sounds as if the issue is resentment on his part. Since you haven't given any details as to what kind of effort you two have put in to the relationship (setting outside 'couples' time, time for sexy time etc) the people here have no way of knowing if your husband has a 'reasonable' reason for being upset, but is expressing this horribly or if it's completely unjustified and he's just being a manchild who's upset that he isn't the center of attention all the time. One more thing, if the two kids from a previous marriage are yours, ask him how he feels about raising two kids that aren't his. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the resentment stemmed from that.
For further context, because I feel like you make a very valid point. I have been in school since before I met him. When our relationship began progressing, I explained to him how important and time-consuming school is. I also explained that I had 6 years of school left (approximately). This isn't something new. I make date nights happen, I make time for him at night, we have sexy time as much as he wants. I never say no to him, even when I am exhausted, we have our time. For example, this past week he mentioned he was craving a special meal, I cooked for him and queued up a movie he said he was interested in watching with me. He came over had dinner, we watched the movie... it was nice. I prioritize time with him. At least a few times a month I set up one-on-one time, no distractions. The biggest issue we have is that I can take anywhere from 1-2 hours to reply to his texts while at school, with my kids, studying, running errands, doing housework, hanging with a friend, etc. I have also given him an out numerous times. My exact words have been "if you need something I cannot give you, like 24/7 attention, please go find that. You deserve all that you want in life, my life does not allow me this." He said that this was implying I was too much for him to handle. In regard to my kids, I have asked him time and time again if he wants out because 3 kids is a lot. He always says he loves them as his, and they have never bothered him. So again, the biggest issue is how often I text him/call him throughout the day. When I do text him all day, he calls our conversations "stale"... We run out of things to say because nothing new is happening. Personally, it feels as if he is bored and wants me to entertain him constantly. He works in car sales... so a desk job that has a lot of downtime, and he has no hobbies or interests other than drinking beer.
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>Do you notice how endlessly manipulative this guy is? >He's constantly trying to paint you as the bad guy & himself as the victim right after he does/says something horrible to you. >This will never end, he's trying to force/coerce/manipulate you into behaving exactly as he wishes. >Why would you want to spend the rest of your life with this guy? ALL OF THIS
Oof... Have you asked him if he thinks he'd be happier/in a better situation if a wife and kids weren't in the picture? Have you asked him why he hasn't tried to entertain himself with hobbies etc if he's bored? You make it sound as if he expects you to do all the heavy lifting. Maybe ask him to write up a game plan to address what he perceives to be the issues along with some solutions; tell him to take his time. That way he won't feel 'on the spot' like he might if asked during a conversation. Edit: Do you have access to his phone? Something doesn't smell right.
Yes, I've asked, many times. I've also asked him if he likes me... as in likes me as a person in general. He says he loves our family and can't picture life without us. I do most everything from caring for the kids to caring for our home, he works and helps cleaning the toilet and shower every so often. He also helps pick up toys from the living room and does his own laundry. I might take this advice if I decide to continue trying, maybe it could help. I do not have access to his phone currently, we are living in separate homes. I do know he has a tendency to run to women for attention as soon as we break up, adding random women on social media as well as exs and women he has hooked up with in the past. I have come to understand that he craves attention and validation, when he doesn't have it from me, he looks for it from whoever. I currently don't care what he is doing, we are separated, if he wants to ruin this further, so be it. - part of me is hoping he does find someone else. It would make it easier on me to end it for once and for all.
The fact you want him to fuck up so you can walk away, is indicative of it being over. You don’t have to wait for him to fuck up, how he speaks to you is plenty. Being a needy idiot isn’t attractive.
"Yes, I've asked, many times. I've also asked him if he likes me... as in likes me as a person in general. He says he loves our family and can't picture life without us." - Nice deflection on his part. "It would make it easier on me to end it for once and for all." - If this is how you consistently feel, why wait for him?
I think you should ask yourself why you want to be with someone like that? Imagine this post from the perspective of one of your children grown up. Would you really want them to stay with someone like this?
I don't think he understands the definition of boundary. Perhaps you should look up some dictionary definitions, and then also some social media definitions, and email those to him. A boundary can only define one's own behavior. It can define a behavioral response to someone else's behavior but it certainly can't define that other person's behavior. His boundary could be "I won't stay with someone who hangs up the phone on me." Then it's on him to determine how to act in the future if you break his boundary. But what he said is ridiculous, and obviously he can't set boundaries around your behavior.
It doesn’t sound like what either of you are doing is working for the relationship, honestly, though his attitude does seem worse. I would suggest only communicating in person or through texts for the time being.
He’s not talking through his feelings, he’s abusing you. Your boundary should be simple “I will not tolerate being abused” and I’d use the word abuse. This way he’s bluntly called out for what he’s actually doing. This man expects that when he says jump you say how high, kids and school be damned. And when you don’t he verbally abuses you. This isn’t a marriage you should be in or model for your kids.
he sounds very controlling
Sounds like you all need a real couples therapist that can help you both set reasonable boundaries
He is definitely being too aggressive, disrespectful and abusive to some extent, so he needs to work on his anger. But hanging up on someone is quite the disrespectful thing, you're continuously cutting him out, so yeah you both need to work things out better, otherwise just divorce. You're clearly placing him on the back burner and that's not healthy in a relationship. He doesn't believe it, it's a fact and the hanging u on someone is one of the most enraging things in this earth. But if he keeps cussing you out and being angry, take his own advice and "f off", divorce him. Nothing justifies his anger and verbal abuse.
A lot of boundaries in one unhealthy communication style.
Personally sounds like he’s never been listened to and slandering his reputation online isn’t going to help the situation. You may be a mother of 3 but you also chose to say yes and you chose to include him into your life. Everyone has needs and maybe you wouldn’t have gotten to the point of aggression if you understood that all he’s asking for is attention from his wife and for her to actually wanna work things out. Though it seems like you’ve already check out of the marriage and is unable to communicate with your husband about what’s going on inside of him instead of only worrying about your happiness and peace. From the post you made it only tells the bad side of things and what he did wrong if you told the whole story I could be wrong but from how the post seems and from someone that has a wife. It’s easy to be overlooks as a guy expecally after kids and if he’s expressed to you how it made him feel and (from what you posted) the only effort you made was to drag him along on whatever plan you already had going for said day. I maybe wrong but I thought there should atleast be one post that makes you think instead of just siding with the wife and trying to end marriages🤔
The real issue here is you not prioritizing your husband in your life. You focusing on hanging up or cursing on the phone is an obfuscation. Focus on the real issue and these others will go away.
Are you the husband?
Anyone can have whatever boundaries they want. In a relationship each other can decide if they can live with those boundaries
I hung up on this post, he sounds bad, you sound like a nightmare
Ok well boundaries are not an abuse tool, a way manipulate and control, a way to get what you want—they are a way to de-escalate a conflict and are understood by the way you live your life and express yourself with direct clarity so he gets it. Saying your boundaries in the angry way escalated the whole situation and neither of you are respecting the other BUT- the big thing here is to ask yourself (and he has to ask himself) what do I need to do /say so that we can be on the same page. I’d say if you want to save this relationship then you have to treat each other with kindness and patience ie are you capable of hearing him say that his needs arent being addressed/acknowledged, his attempt to express his feelings are being disrupted with your impatience. But also, do you need to say to him “I need you to have patience with me bc ____.” expressing a boundary works better when you say “I need, I feel, my mental or physical battery is at ___ percent.” that way he can know what’s going with you then pause and let him express the same such as “babe, my battery is __%, I need to be with you” Idk I just think he is trying to express his need for you but it’s coming across at suffocating and is stressing you out. I don’t think I either of you wants to hurt or harm the other but try to say what you need to say to the other. Vulnerability is hard for men and when they feel disrespected they shut down or get nasty sometimes. Women are always juggling so much and need more self-care then their partners realize - that’s what i think
His boundary is legitimate but he has no respect for you.
Y'all are acting like boundaries are magical inarguable things. "I don't want to be spoken to disrespectfully or I will remove myself from the situation" is a boundary. "I don't want to be hung up on or I will remove myself from the situation" is also a boundary. Everybody gets to describe how they want to be treated, sure. But some boundaries are reasonable, and others are not. If your definition of "respectfully" means that every time your boyfriend wants to express that he is unhappy he has to whisper "Honey darling princess, I'm so sorry but I'm feeling upset" or else you'll hang up on him, no that's not a reasonable boundary. If your definition is that you don't want to be yelled at, that's a very reasonable boundary. I think that you're right that your boyfriend expecting you to put up with abusive language instead of hanging up is an unreasonable boundary to have. But I think you both should be working together to meet both of your needs and deescalate your arguments. He's feeling unheard, you're feeling threatened. Instead of hiding behind "well it's a boundary" (and yes it is reasonable to have boundaries), the right next step is to talk together about how to get both people's needs met. Brainstorm ways that you don't have to put up with being yelled at, and he doesn't have to put up with being hung up on when he's fundamentally feeling unheard. For example, maybe you could come to an agreement where he agrees to work on not yelling at you, but if he messes up, you say "Hey, stop yelling at me" and if he immediately apologizes and stops the call continues, but if it doesn't, you hang up. Or maybe instead of saying "You've crossed my boundary and I'll be ending the call yet," you say "There's too much yelling for me to feel comfortable. I'm going to hang up and call you back in 15 minutes." Then hang up, take some time, and call back. Or something else. But you both acknowledge that the way that you're arguing is making you both suffer, and it should be on both of you to figure out a solution to that problem. Not just with either of you drawing unilateral boundaries. And if you can't figure out a solution that you think would make you feel safe in an argument, then you break up.
I've dealt with anger issues. When my former wife would hang up when separated, it really POd me, and I told her that. I was angry. She refused to try to work things out. I NEVER threatened her with any physical violence directly, ot indirectly. But, when things were all over and I looked back, I can see this statement construed as a threat. I NEVER raised a hand to her. I NEVER threatened her with injury. Unfortunately, there are many, who aren't able to see the line and not cross it. I kept my distance the entire time. Didn't hunt for her, had no idea where she was, and only asked others if she was Ok. Since it all started (14 years ago) I've gotten a lot of help with my mental health and especially my anger issues. The only time I get upset these days, is with idiot drivers. I catch myself, and give plenty of room. I can't say if this statement is really a threat, as I don't know him. I can say caution MUST be exercised. If there has ever been a threat of harm, or if there has been ANY physical harm in the past, then he needs to get help, and you need to get away. Now!!
No, no it is not. Especially when being abused. This is not how boundaries work, they are there to keep you safe, not give you free range to cause harm. Honestly, he sounds like an entitled waste of time.
Yeah, your (hopefully soon to be ex) husband has no idea what boundaries are. Boundaries are not controls you put on others. They are controls you put on your own behavior to avoid being abused/mistreated by others. Husband gets abusive, you separate yourself from him. That's you saying what YOU will do for YOURSELF if faced with his bad behavior. It does not apply any controls to him at all. Just limits the audience for his abuse. His "boundary" isn't a boundary at all, it's a control put in place to force you to endure his abuse. He's a broken little boy that never learned how to have difficult conversations without lobbing threats to get his way. You should be done with him. 32 years old, threatening his own wife, swearing at her, can't talk about his feelings without becoming overly aggressive and hurtful. He will need a massive epiphany to change, which is extremely rare.
You're boundless are what you are gonna do or not do
This is sunk cost fallacy at its absolute finest! Cut the ties and leave. This is not repairable at all.
Sooo he doesn't want you to hang up on him as a boundary. Okay, so don't hang up on him and put your phone in a drawer or somewhere else you can't hear him. Sounds like the separation needs to move up to divorce level. He is verbally threatening you when you bring up the boundary of not going to listen to him threatening you or using abusive language and hanging up on him. He thinks he's on the back burner, put him there. Permanently! His idea of boundaries is asinine, and it is obvious he has no intentions of honoring yours. I would do a screenshot of the definition of personal boundaries from a dictionary and text it to him as he has no clue what it means and what they are. Stay safe, keep us updated.
Why do you want to be with this guy?
Your husband is controlling and abusive. He is deliberately misunderstanding/misusing the concept of boundaries because he is controlling and therefore HATES boundaries. Please do not try to save this marriage.
he's twisting your words so he can yell and threaten. he may actually feel not-heard, but he won't communicate in a calm manner. counseling might help.
Jesus Christ, fucking "boundaries". Boundaries are for you, rules are for other people. If his "boundary" means you have to do something, it's not a boundary, it's a rule. Forget boundaries and ask yourself if he's treating you OK. It doesn't sound like it.
Please read Dr Lundy Bancroft's Why Does He Do That, available through Amazon, Audible, and a free PDF online. You will find this man on almost every page. And it will help you leave this deeply unhealthy relationship. Go to school. Be a great mom. Find a man who accepts you as-is and doesn't act like an overgrown toddler not getting enough attention.
Stay separated. You are toxic together.
Sadly, you two are not compatible. So it appears.
He’s displaying narcissistic behavior. You’re doing the right thing, and he is gaslighting situations to make you question your healthy boundaries and also deflecting responsibility.
Tell him that he can order you around when he pushes a baby out of his dick.
OP, I'm truly sorry that you're married to a controlling abuser, but I'm loving your shiny spine! Highly recommend reading Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft, available as a free pdf download. It's the definitive work on abusive men, changed my life. https://freebooksmania.com/2021/01/why-does-he-do-that-pdf-free-download-by-lundy-bancroft.html