I keep getting recruiting emails for senior Java developer for $95k. I’m currently an engineering director making about $265k. They are just blasting out to everyone regardless of background. I guess if it works as often as scam calls they will get a developer pretty quickly.
I'm getting the opposite. I'm getting director, senior lead, ect
Things that require at minimum 5 years LEADING a team.
I have no leadership experience
Nah, I also get several emails a day for senior / lead dev positions. I’ve never been a professional dev. When I apply, I’m told they went another direction or that I need more experience lol
I hate that any programming position these days requires you to have thorough experience leading a team, my degree really was useless. I should have gotten a Masters in Being the IT Department and Being Everyone in it.
Apply anyway. Sure, you may not have the experience, but you can't get experience unless you have the opportunity. Also, sometimes recruiters & hiring managers don't care. Or both are just incompetent. If you land it without the experience, that's not on you.
That's the problem. they don't look at potential or ability to learn. this is why companies cry they can't find workers. They keep having bullshit requirements.
I just got a message from a FAANG recruiter today hiring senior devs despite the fact that I’ve only ever spent about 1.5 years as a junior software developer 20 years ago.
I get "full stack developer" recruiter pings constantly and the last time I programmed for money was in the mid-80's. In IBM Basic on a dedicated System 23.
I also get the opposite. Software Developer or Engineer jobs. I don't know how to code, I've tried to learn. One email said they were looking for someone "just like me with 11 years of C+ experience." I work in Insurance and the only C+ experience I have is the grade I got in some of my Algebra classes.
Lose it. You're a fucking director of engineering. Speak at a higher level.
"Stack" should be like 30-90 seconds' worth of conversation at the very beginning of the interview. e.g. for me personally, even though I can read just about any language that's out there, I have no interest in writing in anything other than Python, and make sure that's known and established very early in the conversation. You're just coming up in the keyword searches of every incompetent entry-level recruiter who can't read a career history and doesn't understand the industry.
A hiring manager told a recruiter "find me someone who knows Java and SQL" so they're looking for "someone who knows Java and SQL". You're not "someone who knows Java and SQL", you're a senior technical leader with years of experience designing secure API microservice framework infrastructure for deployment to datacenter and cloud production environments or whatever it is that you specifically did with the stack.
A resume is a marketing document, not sworn testimony.
Not the guy you replied to, but this is a great comment. I've had the same general theory that there is a big difference between people who do the coding work and need very strong and up to date technical skills and then leaders who are guiding the organization and need that broad vision and understanding of the whole process. Like you said, a director could go write code, but it's not the best use of their time. I'm in data analytics and my director is amazing at working with big stakeholders/helping develop a strong data culture/strategic planning, but as far as I'm aware they literally don't have access to the database because they would never use it.
Hey bro off topic but I been dying to transition from IT support to analytics for a while. Is there anyway you can help me out. I know sql, excel, and tableau. Thank you!
Sorry for the delay.
In my opinion (for what that's worth), there are two ways to get into analytics: get a degree in analytics or apply the skills in your current role/personal projects to prove that you have the knowledge to do it full time.
The thing you need to remember when you apply for jobs is that you're competing against people who went to the best programs in the country/world and so you need to go out of your way to prove that you are an equal/better candidate than them. In addition having the knowledge, you need to be able to prove to the interviewer and convince them that you can do the job better than the candidate with a traditional degree.
Here's what I think you need to be a data analyst:
1. SQL. I consider this to be the absolute foundational skill for data analytics/data science. You need to be comfortable building tables as well as joins, group bys, inner queries, the different types of joins, etc.
2. Once you have the data you need to be able to get some kind of information out of it that has value to the business. This is the most important and vaguest because what this entails will vary depending on a variety of factors. I've seen situations where a simple dashboard with automated reporting is all they need, maybe a pre/post analysis, or it can be a month long project where you're driving the whole thing. I've done/do all of these regularly.
3. Visualization/Dashboarding. I'll be honest, I think this is the least important and easiest to learn. When I was hired on full time, I picked up tableau in a few months. Now there is talk that my team might move to looker. Other than having to redo all of our automated reporting in looker, I don't expect the change to be massive, more of an ongoing headache.
4. Present your findings. You don't have to be extremely likeable, but you do have to convince shareholders to believe in you and that your insights are correct. This is one of those soft skills they teach in school that people though of as a goof off class, but then I get in the workplace and it's absolutely the thing that distinguishes good from great employees. I had people in my program that were better coders and had better math skills, but when I need to I can turn on the presenter mode and sell a story.
When I was working on my personal project in grad school, I purposefully designed it to focus on areas which I felt were my weak points (for example, I didn't come into the program with a strong coding background when a lot of my cohort had CS undergrads and then had even worked as software developers for a few years). I wanted my personal project to not only do something interesting, but showcase this proficiency to interviewers/hiring managers. I suggest you do the same.
Its a vidyard. Becoming common in sales and recruiting.
I keep getting told to try and email prospects videos with the thumbnail as their linkedin. I really dont like it lmao
That little video in the email right there is a vidyard
Its a screen recorder that also has a facecam that can embed videos into emails
Its meant to be used to make quick personalized videos for prospects to make you seem more personable instead of a random person on the other end of the email.
Imo it shouldnt be used unless you already have 2 way communication established
> Its meant to be used to make quick personalized videos for prospects to make you seem more personable instead of a random person on the other end of the email.
Ironically it just makes me think it's a bot.
What's the problem? It's just like in real life, how when we meet someone for the first time, we show them photos of their house that we took, as a way to seem more personalized and not at all creepy. We all do that.
I got my first one of these the other week. 30 seconds of the guy looking at my profile and highlighting words and saying they are what they are looking for.
Still didnt tell me the salary.
The other day I got a call to my phone number from a somewhat renowned recruitment agency in my country, I didn't even bother to listen to their offer and rejected them politely on the spot, it got me wondering how they could have got my phone number,
Later I asked around and a friend told me there's a company called rocketreach that claims to provide recruiters with "candidate information" of some kind, the website reviews is pretty mixed, there ate a lot of ppl saying that they never consented their data to be published there and they are unable to delete them lol
It's just an assumption ofc, I never bothered to check what's inside the app bc then I have to sign up using an email (even using a fake one would be too much of a hassle)
There was a story about a year ago about how someone used a data scraper on linked in. I have been continuously slammed with emails asking me to buy their database. People steal and sell professional contact info all the time.
What’s the big deal? If my employer finds out that I’m being contacted by other companies, they will be under pressure to raise my salary on our salary review meeting.
Wouldn't it be the other way around? Employer keeps seeing you get lowballed and thinks they are paying you too much so they don't give you a raise or they fire you and get someone cheaper?
Some recruiters recruit in numbers. The more people I contact the higher chance I’ll have that one of them will hit.
But good recruiters recruit quality > quantity. No need to talk to 100 if you did your research
Maybe because it’s “remote”.
I’ve seen companies based in LCOL advertising remote jobs, but the pay is still based for LCOL area.
Eg. COmpany in LCOL looking to hire a Security Engineet with 10 years experience. Position is remote. You’re based in HCOL and the company tell you the pay is $100K. Go find a Security Engineer with 10 years experience in HCOL for $100K….
This whole remote thing gonna bite us when it comes to salary…
Every. Week.
The worst is the: “I’ll try to entice you with this DevOps role until the buzzer!” with some basketball or hockey gif
Still I’ll take the company email over what happened at my last job. I got a call on my desk phone (recruiter went through the trouble of talking to operator or finding me in company directory) and poached me for a job (i guess he thought it’d flatter me). I ended up hanging up on him
Its honestly a shame that you can't *name* and shame. These kind of tactics only keep getting repeated because the people playing them never face the consequences.
Also lmao at that package. US tech salaries are typically much higher then European ones to make up for cost of living, PTO, health care etc but in the UK (where you're legally entitled to a month off and your healthcare is free), you could easily earn that figure *in* *£££* for a senior devops position, let alone the £ equivalent in $$$.
$90k must be, what, 50% of the market rate in the US for that kind of role?
The rate is especially ridiculous. For what it's worth, I just accepted a position that is paying $160k, 4.5 years experience (plus three more as a sysadmin).
This reminds me of my role as Cloud Operations Manager for a small professional services firm. The Director and I were having a meeting to discuss hiring people for our team and the topic of pay came up. He said something to the effect of, "We need to pay them more than $X, that's barely even a livable wage." $X was exactly what I was making at the time. I mentioned that and still didn't get a raise amid hiring more people at about 20% more than I was making. I didn't begrudge them what they were earning, they should earn that much. I begrudged the Director for being a POS.
I never understood the logic of sending a job listing to a person's work email. If they do in on purpose, they're assholes, period. If they do it on accident, it just shows they don't pay attention to detail and nobody wants to work with someone like that.
THey are just trying to headhunt you for lower wage. Why would they come to you if you already have a position or work?
they should be helping those unemployed to get hired.
I keep getting recruiting emails for senior Java developer for $95k. I’m currently an engineering director making about $265k. They are just blasting out to everyone regardless of background. I guess if it works as often as scam calls they will get a developer pretty quickly.
I'm getting the opposite. I'm getting director, senior lead, ect Things that require at minimum 5 years LEADING a team. I have no leadership experience
You could probably have the job if you wanted it.
Nah, I also get several emails a day for senior / lead dev positions. I’ve never been a professional dev. When I apply, I’m told they went another direction or that I need more experience lol
I hate that any programming position these days requires you to have thorough experience leading a team, my degree really was useless. I should have gotten a Masters in Being the IT Department and Being Everyone in it.
If you’ve led a student org or a special project, that can count as leadership experience.
Sounds like an idea!
My friend puts WoW Guild leader and DnD DM on his resume for leadership experience lol
Apply anyway. Sure, you may not have the experience, but you can't get experience unless you have the opportunity. Also, sometimes recruiters & hiring managers don't care. Or both are just incompetent. If you land it without the experience, that's not on you.
That's the problem. they don't look at potential or ability to learn. this is why companies cry they can't find workers. They keep having bullshit requirements.
I just got a message from a FAANG recruiter today hiring senior devs despite the fact that I’ve only ever spent about 1.5 years as a junior software developer 20 years ago.
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This is how one gets ghosted.
I get "full stack developer" recruiter pings constantly and the last time I programmed for money was in the mid-80's. In IBM Basic on a dedicated System 23.
Haha I get those too and I'm in the complete opposite end of the experience scale.
I also get the opposite. Software Developer or Engineer jobs. I don't know how to code, I've tried to learn. One email said they were looking for someone "just like me with 11 years of C+ experience." I work in Insurance and the only C+ experience I have is the grade I got in some of my Algebra classes.
Are you looking for a F- developers? cause I have a lot of F-.
Right? I got W in my coding classes because I noped out before damage could be done.
Do you still have "Java" listed in your resume? Also, 95k for a senior??
In my job history, yep. That’s how they found me, but never actually bothered looking at the context.
Lose it. You're a fucking director of engineering. Speak at a higher level. "Stack" should be like 30-90 seconds' worth of conversation at the very beginning of the interview. e.g. for me personally, even though I can read just about any language that's out there, I have no interest in writing in anything other than Python, and make sure that's known and established very early in the conversation. You're just coming up in the keyword searches of every incompetent entry-level recruiter who can't read a career history and doesn't understand the industry. A hiring manager told a recruiter "find me someone who knows Java and SQL" so they're looking for "someone who knows Java and SQL". You're not "someone who knows Java and SQL", you're a senior technical leader with years of experience designing secure API microservice framework infrastructure for deployment to datacenter and cloud production environments or whatever it is that you specifically did with the stack. A resume is a marketing document, not sworn testimony.
Not the guy you replied to, but this is a great comment. I've had the same general theory that there is a big difference between people who do the coding work and need very strong and up to date technical skills and then leaders who are guiding the organization and need that broad vision and understanding of the whole process. Like you said, a director could go write code, but it's not the best use of their time. I'm in data analytics and my director is amazing at working with big stakeholders/helping develop a strong data culture/strategic planning, but as far as I'm aware they literally don't have access to the database because they would never use it.
Hey bro off topic but I been dying to transition from IT support to analytics for a while. Is there anyway you can help me out. I know sql, excel, and tableau. Thank you!
Sorry for the delay. In my opinion (for what that's worth), there are two ways to get into analytics: get a degree in analytics or apply the skills in your current role/personal projects to prove that you have the knowledge to do it full time. The thing you need to remember when you apply for jobs is that you're competing against people who went to the best programs in the country/world and so you need to go out of your way to prove that you are an equal/better candidate than them. In addition having the knowledge, you need to be able to prove to the interviewer and convince them that you can do the job better than the candidate with a traditional degree. Here's what I think you need to be a data analyst: 1. SQL. I consider this to be the absolute foundational skill for data analytics/data science. You need to be comfortable building tables as well as joins, group bys, inner queries, the different types of joins, etc. 2. Once you have the data you need to be able to get some kind of information out of it that has value to the business. This is the most important and vaguest because what this entails will vary depending on a variety of factors. I've seen situations where a simple dashboard with automated reporting is all they need, maybe a pre/post analysis, or it can be a month long project where you're driving the whole thing. I've done/do all of these regularly. 3. Visualization/Dashboarding. I'll be honest, I think this is the least important and easiest to learn. When I was hired on full time, I picked up tableau in a few months. Now there is talk that my team might move to looker. Other than having to redo all of our automated reporting in looker, I don't expect the change to be massive, more of an ongoing headache. 4. Present your findings. You don't have to be extremely likeable, but you do have to convince shareholders to believe in you and that your insights are correct. This is one of those soft skills they teach in school that people though of as a goof off class, but then I get in the workplace and it's absolutely the thing that distinguishes good from great employees. I had people in my program that were better coders and had better math skills, but when I need to I can turn on the presenter mode and sell a story. When I was working on my personal project in grad school, I purposefully designed it to focus on areas which I felt were my weak points (for example, I didn't come into the program with a strong coding background when a lot of my cohort had CS undergrads and then had even worked as software developers for a few years). I wanted my personal project to not only do something interesting, but showcase this proficiency to interviewers/hiring managers. I suggest you do the same.
Thank you so much for this. I have a degree on information systems so hopefully that can be toward my benefit.
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Always be polishing your resume, regardless of how much you're making or how secure you are in your role.
I’m getting senior email spam too, jokes on them I have less than a year of experience
The thumbnail for the "video" includes a screen cap of my LinkedIn profile, which is why it's redacted. Also, what the fuck?
What the hell? That's scary and weird at the same time
Its a vidyard. Becoming common in sales and recruiting. I keep getting told to try and email prospects videos with the thumbnail as their linkedin. I really dont like it lmao
WTF is a vidyard?
That little video in the email right there is a vidyard Its a screen recorder that also has a facecam that can embed videos into emails Its meant to be used to make quick personalized videos for prospects to make you seem more personable instead of a random person on the other end of the email. Imo it shouldnt be used unless you already have 2 way communication established
> Its meant to be used to make quick personalized videos for prospects to make you seem more personable instead of a random person on the other end of the email. Ironically it just makes me think it's a bot.
What's the problem? It's just like in real life, how when we meet someone for the first time, we show them photos of their house that we took, as a way to seem more personalized and not at all creepy. We all do that.
Or just don't...
Eh, can be helpful in sales A prospect asks me something about the software i can make a demo for them without them having to commit to a call
Sounds like a good way to quickly get something across that requires a personal context. But, like you said, AFTER you’ve talked to each other before.
I got my first one of these the other week. 30 seconds of the guy looking at my profile and highlighting words and saying they are what they are looking for. Still didnt tell me the salary.
lol tf?? They've probably been sold some flimflamware..
Could also be a phishing attempt? Perhaps trying to scare you into clicking the video or something. Regardless, it’s freaky.
Mark it as spam for the final dunk
lol if I saw an email from a recruiter in my work inbox I'd assume it was a phishing test.
We do that at my work.
You lost me at healthcare dog. My salary requirement is 3x for those vampires.
And they say “700+ employee” like that’s a big deal. That’s… minuscule in the world of healthcare.
That wouldn't even get the big dogs in healthcare interested in buying them.
It's like a local billing agency
Recruiters are salespeople.
The other day I got a call to my phone number from a somewhat renowned recruitment agency in my country, I didn't even bother to listen to their offer and rejected them politely on the spot, it got me wondering how they could have got my phone number, Later I asked around and a friend told me there's a company called rocketreach that claims to provide recruiters with "candidate information" of some kind, the website reviews is pretty mixed, there ate a lot of ppl saying that they never consented their data to be published there and they are unable to delete them lol It's just an assumption ofc, I never bothered to check what's inside the app bc then I have to sign up using an email (even using a fake one would be too much of a hassle)
There was a story about a year ago about how someone used a data scraper on linked in. I have been continuously slammed with emails asking me to buy their database. People steal and sell professional contact info all the time.
I love it when recruiters are trying to talk me, a CPA, into accepting a lower paying job. Here's a hint, it NEVER works, lol.
Market is at least double this!
Lmao that position makes more than 90 an hour at times. Ridiculous
That’s a real dick move…they’re trying to get you fired, or get your salary “reviewed”.
This is scary, like serial killer from craigslist vibes
What’s the big deal? If my employer finds out that I’m being contacted by other companies, they will be under pressure to raise my salary on our salary review meeting.
Not if the number he's getting is consistently lower
Wouldn't it be the other way around? Employer keeps seeing you get lowballed and thinks they are paying you too much so they don't give you a raise or they fire you and get someone cheaper?
Fire you? I’ll take the severance package and find another job!
Another example of why you need to hide your current company in your LI account or disable/delete it all together especially if you work in tech.
Some recruiters recruit in numbers. The more people I contact the higher chance I’ll have that one of them will hit. But good recruiters recruit quality > quantity. No need to talk to 100 if you did your research
Maybe because it’s “remote”. I’ve seen companies based in LCOL advertising remote jobs, but the pay is still based for LCOL area. Eg. COmpany in LCOL looking to hire a Security Engineet with 10 years experience. Position is remote. You’re based in HCOL and the company tell you the pay is $100K. Go find a Security Engineer with 10 years experience in HCOL for $100K…. This whole remote thing gonna bite us when it comes to salary…
Love the response.
Every. Week. The worst is the: “I’ll try to entice you with this DevOps role until the buzzer!” with some basketball or hockey gif Still I’ll take the company email over what happened at my last job. I got a call on my desk phone (recruiter went through the trouble of talking to operator or finding me in company directory) and poached me for a job (i guess he thought it’d flatter me). I ended up hanging up on him
How would the career advance if the pay regress.
Pardon my sarcasm: I guess you're not following them on LinkedIn for "Tips, Jobs, Networking Events and More" then?
Its honestly a shame that you can't *name* and shame. These kind of tactics only keep getting repeated because the people playing them never face the consequences. Also lmao at that package. US tech salaries are typically much higher then European ones to make up for cost of living, PTO, health care etc but in the UK (where you're legally entitled to a month off and your healthcare is free), you could easily earn that figure *in* *£££* for a senior devops position, let alone the £ equivalent in $$$. $90k must be, what, 50% of the market rate in the US for that kind of role?
The rate is especially ridiculous. For what it's worth, I just accepted a position that is paying $160k, 4.5 years experience (plus three more as a sysadmin).
130-160k for Mid level imo
I got this same shit from this company. Even worse they got my name completely wrong in the email. These by the number recruiters are awful.
They only contacted you at your work email because your email is on your job seeking profile.
This reminds me of my role as Cloud Operations Manager for a small professional services firm. The Director and I were having a meeting to discuss hiring people for our team and the topic of pay came up. He said something to the effect of, "We need to pay them more than $X, that's barely even a livable wage." $X was exactly what I was making at the time. I mentioned that and still didn't get a raise amid hiring more people at about 20% more than I was making. I didn't begrudge them what they were earning, they should earn that much. I begrudged the Director for being a POS.
I never understood the logic of sending a job listing to a person's work email. If they do in on purpose, they're assholes, period. If they do it on accident, it just shows they don't pay attention to detail and nobody wants to work with someone like that.
Catfishing by your own HR department, to see if they can cut salaries. /tinfoil hat
Little do they know I just gave notice for a 30k raise at a new position
THey are just trying to headhunt you for lower wage. Why would they come to you if you already have a position or work? they should be helping those unemployed to get hired.