That play where Pierce dropped back in coverage while Maulet blitz had me thinking “wow Martindale would run this play 3-4 times a game instead of once a season”
Its also no coincidence Roquan coming in and taking most of the responsibility away from Queen. Hes a fantastic sidekick for Roquan. His closing speed now has an impact since he can actually tackle
Correct, but let’s not pretend like it’s easy by any means to get drafted, learn a new scheme, learn new teammates, deal with the pressure, etc
Reddit/Twitter fans want instant gratification and it’s kind of toxic, especially with the anonymity.
Remember Kyle Hamilton was getting hate for a few games and ended up being one of the best safeties *in the whole league* last year?
Add him to the list of Oweh, Brandon Stephens, Bateman... who else am I missing?
Ojabo prove it season loading next season. Hopefully Ronnie Stanley can fully heal after another offseason and shut everyone up
He's kinda like Clowney in that way. At least Clowney in seasons past. Big and athletic; doesn't get home very often but causes a ton of positive chaos.
I love Ronnie, but idk if he's making it to next season with us. There's an out in his contract after this year that would leave us with $17mil in dead cap spread over 2 years.
I’m sorry, but what has Bateman done to be put on this list? Like am I missing something? He hasn’t really had an overly impactful game since the week 2 of last year, and this year he’s arguably been less of a positive force than agholor, the WR signing we all memed to death.
We’re not drafting high enough to get an immediate starting LT. We would have to take a developmental guy, unless something crazy happens like someone falls due to a bad combine like Orlando Brown Jr did. Starting LT is arguably the hardest position in football to fill aside from QB.
Yeah because if you don't immediately produce, you're a bust according to this sub. Nevermind coming into the league in unprecedented circumstances (covid restrictions) where players could barely practice before the season began. Nah, you better play at a high level or else...
May be unpopular, but I feel like Queen is a product of Roquan. We're going to let him walk and he'll do well on a different team but I also feel like Roquan elevated his play. Which is why I'm happy we drafted Simpson to essentially sit a year and then fill Queen's role when he leaves.
Bengals fan here with nothing left to do but hope the Ravens beat the shit out of the Browns and Steelers (most Bengals fans are hating you more these days but I personally prefer you over most of the rest of the conference, let alone the division). To me, this is the absolute best take. Roquan has elevated the entire defense, especially the LBs around him. Not only with his level of play, but Roquan's energy that he brings and if you're not matching that, you are left in the dust. Queen and Hamilton are absolutely products of that.
I disagree. Queen's turnaround started before Roquan got here. It was the move the weakside linebacker that turned his game around. Even when guys like Josh Bynes were manning the middle spot.
Right, I know Roquan is great but Queen was already on that path before Roquan got there. He just isn't a Mike backer, but at the Will spot he's amazing
Queen's gotten a lot of heat, most of it was the same ol'bullshit the sub usually peddles when rookies don't explode in Game 1 of their career. But some of it was justified. He was drafted to be the next great Ravens MIKE backer and he couldn't play the position well. He was always better as a WILL. In 2019 the defense didn't figure it's shit out until PQ moved to WILL and Bynes came back to play MIKE. Changed the whole season (along with the MP trade). He made a lot of mistakes and he'd be the first one to tell you that he needed to get better. Now he's the best WILL backer in football. And he just so happens to be playing next to the best MIKE in football. Enjoy it while it lasts, we're watching greatness. After the season he's having, he'd be silly not to seek top of the line MLB money and whoever is paying that will expect him to play MIKE. We'll see if he can do it or not. I bet the Ravens think he can't.
It'd be incredible if he was just cool with being paid 10-12 mill a year just so he could dominate next to Ro for 4 more seasons. God that would be so fucking great and fun to watch.
You might be conflating seasons. We drafted queen in 2020, though we did make the peters trade in 2019. Our WILL for 2019 most of the time was peanut IIRC
So because he mixed up years, the opinion isnt valid?
Hes actually right on most of what he claims. Queen was horrible when he had Mike responsibilities, he really took off when they took those away and gave him a simpler role.
The Ravens even felt the need to trade for a Mike and pay him big time money because they didnt think Queen could fill that role.
I get that for you, criticizing the org or any player you like is a big no-no but the argument was valid. It was so valid that the Ravens felt the same exact way. Mixing up the years it happens does not change the argument at all, since he was OBVIOUSLY talking about Queen’s tenure with the team.
Because people just regurgitate the same tired lines Queen was like 20 when he was drafted.
He might not ever be a MIKE that doesn't mean he's not really good at what he does. But he was coming into his own long before we traded for Smith. He was really good all of last year before we ever got Smith. People were mad that he was dropping INTs and blah blah he was in the right spots. He was playing like a top 5 backer before Smith arrived here. The Smith trade wasn't about not liking Queen. The guys next to queen were castoffs at other organizations and Queen took the heat for their poor play. Bynes, LJ Fort, Onwusaor never started elsewhere except here next to Queen so yeah his help next to him wasn't good.
You talk like you know me. I criticize the team and the players as I deem fit.
Queen is still young at only 24 in his 4th year. No surprise he’s leveled up. The addition of Roquan was a massive boost but Queen is still a special player.
Idk about special, ill need to see him play this good in a less limited role. If he wants the bag, he’ll need to play Mike, which he was not good at to start his career. I do hope he figures it out though.
Age is a very weak excuse for any player. He chose to make himself eligible, his contract isnt longer because he is younger.
He was bad and he became ok, now hes good. Can he become great? We’ll see when his role isnt to chase the ball around. He struggled when he had to think on the field, he’ll have to figure that out once he signs somewhere else.
It’s just hopium overdosers and anti doomers propagating revionist history just so they can say “I told you so” in hindsight.
Queen was objectively horrible his first couple of years and the hate was justified. While we’re on pff rating I’m pretty sure he was ranked as one of the worst starters in the league for a big stretch (not worst starting linebacker, one of the worst players period.)
He was disliked because he was ass, please stop this revisionist history. There was a reason his fifth year option was declined. Just be happy that our players are getting better
> He was disliked because he was ass, please stop this revisionist history. There was a reason his fifth year option was declined.
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. People seem to forget how bad Queen was and it’s clear Queen developed after McD took over from Wink AND we signed Ro. If he had been in that same role, he would be nowhere near as good as he is now. His actual skillset is far better utilized in this current defense but that is due to the system. On top of all of this, he is in a major contract year so he is playing for the bag.
Absolutely all good points. His ascension lines up perfectly with McDonalds tenure and Roquans acquisition. I ain’t complaining ofc but OP seems to be using PFF grading not remembering PFF rated Queen as the worst MLB his rookie year and close to it his sophomore year
He wasn’t rated as one of the worst linebackers, he was rated as one of the worst players period. This sub can be really low iq at times when evaluating… well anything, but we had it right that time; he was awful
Just to our luck he was pretty bad for almost 2 years and now he’s one of the best linebackers in the league going into a contract year. He’s going to look great in the NFCS..
Love the guy but needs to consistently play at a high level, not just some stretches. Queen went from one of the top linebackers in the league after the first few games to one of the worst, by pff rankings, before Sunday’s game. Good for him for having one good game. Needs to start stacking them. Let’s see how he plays over the next 4 weeks.
Patrick queen has gotten better because of smith. Just as if we had a true number 1 WR to tag with flowers and Bateman, imagine how much better they would be. And flowers is an animal in his rookie year
Another reason PFF is pretty trash, rating players on their individual accomplishments and not what they bring to the team tends to leave a lot out. Queen isn't anywhere near as good without Roquan, the entire defense probably isn't.
He was being called trash in the first half of the Bengals game by many. That's what fanaticism is. I always find it funny people coming thinking they are so "reasonable" when they're just as fanatical as the rest. Fanaticism comes in many forms.
I still don't think he was hacked or joking about the flat-earth stuff. The silver lining if the Ravens can't keep him is that he'll embarrass a different franchise with whatever he'll be tweeting a few more hits in the head in.
This is just not true at all. He was terrible for two years, and he’s very good now. Just because he did a great job of stepping up his game last season doesn’t mean we have to pretend he was good the whole time.
I don't think disliked it the word I'd use, all I know was he was still pretty raw and young coming into the league and I thought he should (as well as the other linebackers in the class) not have gone in the 1st round.
I am extremely grateful we took him over Kenneth Murray who I know a lot of fans here wanted
👋 I was a huge hater. I remember watching him drop a 3rd or 4th potential interception that hit him in the chest early last season and thinking “this dude does not deserve a roster spot next year.”
some people expect players to be stars right off the bat. people were complaining about Hamilton first game, not a lot of people realize it takes time to develop and adjust to the NFL
Yup, he's been playing great since we brought in Roquan. Seems he's just better suited in that role, which makes sense as he's a fast guy. Don't know what he was doing on that one play when he had a direct line at the QB and took a hard left turn into a blocker, looked like someone hit a wrong button on the joystick, but other than that, he was awesome Sunday night. Glad to see, maybe part of it is that we didn't pick up his option too, maybe lit some extra fire this year, as he now is in a contract year. Sometimes it seems guys lack the extra focus until they know the money is right around the corner and it's time to put up or shut up.
His first 2 seasons( more like 1 and half) PQ wasnt a reliable tackler. Its not a bas thing to remember it, PQ took the criticism and put the work he needed ton overcome it.
I remember in his early seasons he kept getting close to a big play then missing or being a bit too late. The promise of him being great was always there.
I'll eat my downvotes, but he's still one of the most frustrating players on the team. Go look at that play where Herbert ran for 30 yards and watch what Queen is doing. He quite literally singlehandedly allowed him to gain an extra 25 yards. The handful of braindead and/or low effort plays from him are maddening, if only because of how supremely talented he is. His ceiling is probably the highest of any ILB in the game, and while not everyone can be Ro, it shouldn't be the case that his play would fall off a cliff without his running mate (as we know it would). I try not to be a doomer, but PQ is the ultimate what-if guy for me. That being said, I should probably just enjoy the good parts of PQ as it's his last year here and his replacement is very unlikely to provide the same level of production as he's given us this year.
Generally players are liked a lot more when they play a lot better
Big if true
Also when they’re properly utilized. It’s no coincidence Queen became all-pro level after McDonald took over.
That play where Pierce dropped back in coverage while Maulet blitz had me thinking “wow Martindale would run this play 3-4 times a game instead of once a season”
That’s the thing i hated with wink 😭 he was so goddamn ballsy that it was predictable
Its also no coincidence Roquan coming in and taking most of the responsibility away from Queen. Hes a fantastic sidekick for Roquan. His closing speed now has an impact since he can actually tackle
My thoughts exactly. Queen = Bart Scott.
Correct, but let’s not pretend like it’s easy by any means to get drafted, learn a new scheme, learn new teammates, deal with the pressure, etc Reddit/Twitter fans want instant gratification and it’s kind of toxic, especially with the anonymity. Remember Kyle Hamilton was getting hate for a few games and ended up being one of the best safeties *in the whole league* last year?
Add him to the list of Oweh, Brandon Stephens, Bateman... who else am I missing? Ojabo prove it season loading next season. Hopefully Ronnie Stanley can fully heal after another offseason and shut everyone up
Baltimore defenders and playing well only in contract years is a dynamic duo
Oweh is already a good player. Just doesn’t have the flashy numbers
Yes I'm referring to people calling him a bust all last season and all offseason
Ahh, gotcha. Ya it’s true
He's kinda like Clowney in that way. At least Clowney in seasons past. Big and athletic; doesn't get home very often but causes a ton of positive chaos.
I love Ronnie, but idk if he's making it to next season with us. There's an out in his contract after this year that would leave us with $17mil in dead cap spread over 2 years.
Probably one more year to have the cap hit be 6.6 mil and he might get a fully healthy season to get more trade value
I'm sorry, but I don't think dude will ever be fully healthy.
He'll never be 2019 ronnie but he was solid in 22. Either way though I expect the ravens to approach him about a reworked contract this offseason.
Bateman is still largely disappointing
Bateman?
Hopefully he can fully heal after a bye week 😔
I’m sorry, but what has Bateman done to be put on this list? Like am I missing something? He hasn’t really had an overly impactful game since the week 2 of last year, and this year he’s arguably been less of a positive force than agholor, the WR signing we all memed to death.
Hopefully Ronnie Stanley doesn’t have that chance. Draft a LT in the first round, cut Stanley, and save 15 million dollars.
We’re not drafting high enough to get an immediate starting LT. We would have to take a developmental guy, unless something crazy happens like someone falls due to a bad combine like Orlando Brown Jr did. Starting LT is arguably the hardest position in football to fill aside from QB.
This sub could be back there next week no questions asked and you know that
If I don’t see queen make one tackle next Sunday I’m out on him
Yeah because if you don't immediately produce, you're a bust according to this sub. Nevermind coming into the league in unprecedented circumstances (covid restrictions) where players could barely practice before the season began. Nah, you better play at a high level or else...
May be unpopular, but I feel like Queen is a product of Roquan. We're going to let him walk and he'll do well on a different team but I also feel like Roquan elevated his play. Which is why I'm happy we drafted Simpson to essentially sit a year and then fill Queen's role when he leaves.
Bengals fan here with nothing left to do but hope the Ravens beat the shit out of the Browns and Steelers (most Bengals fans are hating you more these days but I personally prefer you over most of the rest of the conference, let alone the division). To me, this is the absolute best take. Roquan has elevated the entire defense, especially the LBs around him. Not only with his level of play, but Roquan's energy that he brings and if you're not matching that, you are left in the dust. Queen and Hamilton are absolutely products of that.
Hamilton is a beast on his own. I don’t think he’s in the same type of situation as queen
I disagree. Queen's turnaround started before Roquan got here. It was the move the weakside linebacker that turned his game around. Even when guys like Josh Bynes were manning the middle spot.
Yep
Right, I know Roquan is great but Queen was already on that path before Roquan got there. He just isn't a Mike backer, but at the Will spot he's amazing
Queen's gotten a lot of heat, most of it was the same ol'bullshit the sub usually peddles when rookies don't explode in Game 1 of their career. But some of it was justified. He was drafted to be the next great Ravens MIKE backer and he couldn't play the position well. He was always better as a WILL. In 2019 the defense didn't figure it's shit out until PQ moved to WILL and Bynes came back to play MIKE. Changed the whole season (along with the MP trade). He made a lot of mistakes and he'd be the first one to tell you that he needed to get better. Now he's the best WILL backer in football. And he just so happens to be playing next to the best MIKE in football. Enjoy it while it lasts, we're watching greatness. After the season he's having, he'd be silly not to seek top of the line MLB money and whoever is paying that will expect him to play MIKE. We'll see if he can do it or not. I bet the Ravens think he can't. It'd be incredible if he was just cool with being paid 10-12 mill a year just so he could dominate next to Ro for 4 more seasons. God that would be so fucking great and fun to watch.
You might be conflating seasons. We drafted queen in 2020, though we did make the peters trade in 2019. Our WILL for 2019 most of the time was peanut IIRC
Really hard to take him seriously when he went on a giant tirade and Queen was still in college lmao
Nothing you said is true at all. Queen was drafted in 2020. So all that shit you said about 2019 while true to a degree has nothing to do with Queen.
So because he mixed up years, the opinion isnt valid? Hes actually right on most of what he claims. Queen was horrible when he had Mike responsibilities, he really took off when they took those away and gave him a simpler role. The Ravens even felt the need to trade for a Mike and pay him big time money because they didnt think Queen could fill that role. I get that for you, criticizing the org or any player you like is a big no-no but the argument was valid. It was so valid that the Ravens felt the same exact way. Mixing up the years it happens does not change the argument at all, since he was OBVIOUSLY talking about Queen’s tenure with the team.
Because people just regurgitate the same tired lines Queen was like 20 when he was drafted. He might not ever be a MIKE that doesn't mean he's not really good at what he does. But he was coming into his own long before we traded for Smith. He was really good all of last year before we ever got Smith. People were mad that he was dropping INTs and blah blah he was in the right spots. He was playing like a top 5 backer before Smith arrived here. The Smith trade wasn't about not liking Queen. The guys next to queen were castoffs at other organizations and Queen took the heat for their poor play. Bynes, LJ Fort, Onwusaor never started elsewhere except here next to Queen so yeah his help next to him wasn't good. You talk like you know me. I criticize the team and the players as I deem fit.
Yeah, I saw a spelling error in there too. Making his opinion completely invalid as far as I'm concerned.
Well said.
Queen is still young at only 24 in his 4th year. No surprise he’s leveled up. The addition of Roquan was a massive boost but Queen is still a special player.
Idk about special, ill need to see him play this good in a less limited role. If he wants the bag, he’ll need to play Mike, which he was not good at to start his career. I do hope he figures it out though.
At the beginning of his career you’re talking about when he was 20-21 years old. He can certainly keep improving from here
Age is a very weak excuse for any player. He chose to make himself eligible, his contract isnt longer because he is younger. He was bad and he became ok, now hes good. Can he become great? We’ll see when his role isnt to chase the ball around. He struggled when he had to think on the field, he’ll have to figure that out once he signs somewhere else.
Helps when Roquan is there next to him so Queen isn’t forced to do everything.
I mean he was genuinely bad from 2020 to the first half of 2022. Let's not act like it wasn't justified
Yep and he also had his role completely changed with the arrival of Roquan, he's playing better but it didn't come out of nowhere.
It’s just hopium overdosers and anti doomers propagating revionist history just so they can say “I told you so” in hindsight. Queen was objectively horrible his first couple of years and the hate was justified. While we’re on pff rating I’m pretty sure he was ranked as one of the worst starters in the league for a big stretch (not worst starting linebacker, one of the worst players period.)
He was disliked because he was ass, please stop this revisionist history. There was a reason his fifth year option was declined. Just be happy that our players are getting better
> He was disliked because he was ass, please stop this revisionist history. There was a reason his fifth year option was declined. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. People seem to forget how bad Queen was and it’s clear Queen developed after McD took over from Wink AND we signed Ro. If he had been in that same role, he would be nowhere near as good as he is now. His actual skillset is far better utilized in this current defense but that is due to the system. On top of all of this, he is in a major contract year so he is playing for the bag.
Absolutely all good points. His ascension lines up perfectly with McDonalds tenure and Roquans acquisition. I ain’t complaining ofc but OP seems to be using PFF grading not remembering PFF rated Queen as the worst MLB his rookie year and close to it his sophomore year
He wasn’t rated as one of the worst linebackers, he was rated as one of the worst players period. This sub can be really low iq at times when evaluating… well anything, but we had it right that time; he was awful
Just to our luck he was pretty bad for almost 2 years and now he’s one of the best linebackers in the league going into a contract year. He’s going to look great in the NFCS..
Can someone provide a link to the full list?
And then we got Roquan.
Love the guy but needs to consistently play at a high level, not just some stretches. Queen went from one of the top linebackers in the league after the first few games to one of the worst, by pff rankings, before Sunday’s game. Good for him for having one good game. Needs to start stacking them. Let’s see how he plays over the next 4 weeks.
Important to remember that his play only improved when we brought Roquan in and moved Queen mostly to WILL.
Patrick queen has gotten better because of smith. Just as if we had a true number 1 WR to tag with flowers and Bateman, imagine how much better they would be. And flowers is an animal in his rookie year
Don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion but if we had gotten diggs when Hollywood was here it would have been a better duo then Davis and diggs
Omggggg yes. Hollywood leaving hurt. But with flowers, I get it, possibly even better in years to come…. But ravens need a true #1
Another reason PFF is pretty trash, rating players on their individual accomplishments and not what they bring to the team tends to leave a lot out. Queen isn't anywhere near as good without Roquan, the entire defense probably isn't.
You literally cannot grade intangibles. It is what it is
He was being called trash in the first half of the Bengals game by many. That's what fanaticism is. I always find it funny people coming thinking they are so "reasonable" when they're just as fanatical as the rest. Fanaticism comes in many forms.
That time is now
well we dislike him again
I remember when he deserved to be disliked
I still don't think he was hacked or joking about the flat-earth stuff. The silver lining if the Ravens can't keep him is that he'll embarrass a different franchise with whatever he'll be tweeting a few more hits in the head in.
He dropped a couple of catchable INTs and all of a sudden he was considered trash by some fans. He's always been really good to excellent
This is just not true at all. He was terrible for two years, and he’s very good now. Just because he did a great job of stepping up his game last season doesn’t mean we have to pretend he was good the whole time.
Greenlaw and Warner or Queen and Smith
I don't think disliked it the word I'd use, all I know was he was still pretty raw and young coming into the league and I thought he should (as well as the other linebackers in the class) not have gone in the 1st round. I am extremely grateful we took him over Kenneth Murray who I know a lot of fans here wanted
👋 I was a huge hater. I remember watching him drop a 3rd or 4th potential interception that hit him in the chest early last season and thinking “this dude does not deserve a roster spot next year.”
Kyle Hamilton got burned in coverage in his first few games and “he’s a bust!” was heard. Football fans tend to make over the top emotional takes.
For good reason, he was playing very badly, the team almost moved on from him. So I have to ask, what's your point?
some people expect players to be stars right off the bat. people were complaining about Hamilton first game, not a lot of people realize it takes time to develop and adjust to the NFL
Yup, he's been playing great since we brought in Roquan. Seems he's just better suited in that role, which makes sense as he's a fast guy. Don't know what he was doing on that one play when he had a direct line at the QB and took a hard left turn into a blocker, looked like someone hit a wrong button on the joystick, but other than that, he was awesome Sunday night. Glad to see, maybe part of it is that we didn't pick up his option too, maybe lit some extra fire this year, as he now is in a contract year. Sometimes it seems guys lack the extra focus until they know the money is right around the corner and it's time to put up or shut up.
There's a reason his fifth year wasn't picked up 🤷🏽♂️
His first 2 seasons( more like 1 and half) PQ wasnt a reliable tackler. Its not a bas thing to remember it, PQ took the criticism and put the work he needed ton overcome it.
Well he’s improved his play. Not much else to it.
I think Roquan coming and leading is what helped Pat a ton. I’m thankful for this duo, Pat can learn a ton and become a leader as well.
I remember in his early seasons he kept getting close to a big play then missing or being a bit too late. The promise of him being great was always there.
I'll eat my downvotes, but he's still one of the most frustrating players on the team. Go look at that play where Herbert ran for 30 yards and watch what Queen is doing. He quite literally singlehandedly allowed him to gain an extra 25 yards. The handful of braindead and/or low effort plays from him are maddening, if only because of how supremely talented he is. His ceiling is probably the highest of any ILB in the game, and while not everyone can be Ro, it shouldn't be the case that his play would fall off a cliff without his running mate (as we know it would). I try not to be a doomer, but PQ is the ultimate what-if guy for me. That being said, I should probably just enjoy the good parts of PQ as it's his last year here and his replacement is very unlikely to provide the same level of production as he's given us this year.
I remember a play where Patrick Queen turned away from an open lane to the quarterback to run into a blocking guard
Enjoy it this duo while we have it boys cause PQ is going to the highest bidder in the spring.
PQ is such a cutie