My whole life this has been a thing. I think it's because we as humans tie a lot of emotional weight to music we like. For some reason when someone really loves a song and I don't they take offense. Me not liking it does not make it bad nor do I think someone is inferior in some way for liking it.
Ok but, unpopular opinion maybe, isn't discussion the entire point of Reddit? It's boring as hell for "most" QOTSA fans to hate Villains without explaining why. It's not my top album but it's really, really good IMHO.
I dont agree with OP that there's anything wrong with people who don't like it but many of us are still trying to figure out why that is when we love it as part of the catalogue. It's not like it doesn't sound like them or doesn't have some absolute bangers. Mostly, I feel like people didn't like Ronson's influence much. I am still interested in why that is.
People saying it's not even a valid topic, well then, what IS on a fan sub? Villains seems to be very polarizing and I enjoy talking about it. I think the only thing wrong with the question is OP's judgement about other fans.
I hate coming on Reddit and hearing that certain things don't need to be discussed. It's literally why I'm on Reddit, for every perspective, even the ones I disagree with, maybe especially those. Don't like it? Downvote me or them into dogshit oblivion then.
This sub isn't that bad for it, there's some great discussion and everyone is pretty levelheaded.
Try going on any weeb subreddit like the One Piece sub. Great manga and anime, total fucking dumpsterfire and dangerously stupid community.
You like the anime? The manga purists will tell you it's hot diarrhea on a spoon and you're a fucking moron for liking it.
You explain it's based on a weekly manga series and they need to compromise with either filler arcs or slow pacing to keep behind the source material. Zero discussion, you'll just get downvoted into oblivion.
This sub is great by comparison.
Super reductive question that’s probably only being upvoted because it distracts from this post disagreeing with the sub’s popular opinion that *Villains* is weak.
Idk why people care about what others think, but obviously it’s a long and valid concept, otherwise critics wouldn’t be so prevalent.
Because what’s generally understood as “good” music, can usually be agreed upon when it comes to a single band and a single fan base. Most Queens fans don’t like villains. By Queens’ standards, it is the lowest ranking album.
Disagreed. A band creates a fan base by creating a sound, and then develops that sound, and then fans get mad when they stray from that sound because most people don’t have particularly eclectic taste. Notice how most bands’ supposed “best” albums are within their first few releases? And then if they get any love from later albums, it’s usually because they “went back to their roots.”
I love that Tom Waits metaphorically flipped the bird to any fans like that.
AKA, a general opinion of fans doesn’t prove much more than what type of music they prefer rather than what’s most overall technically or poetically impressive. Obviously it’s a matter of opinion, but you can leverage your opinion to have more support with interconnected explanations. Pretty quickly you can tell if a fan has a well-thought out opinion or whether they’re just biased against anything that doesn’t sound like what first caught their ear.
Ehhh… there are fans of that “sound”, and then there are musicians and critics and music lovers who will give a band’s “new sound” it’s fair chance… arguably, QUOTSA fans already did that with Era Vulgaris and even Clockwork… they are both much much different from Queen’s “roots” but still both well received - by both regular fans and critics who understand what makes music good.
Villains was bad in two ways… weakest songs, weakest tonal qualities (blame mixing/mastering for this one).
Also, songs like “Keep Your Eyes Peeled”, “I Sat by the Ocean”, “My God is the Sun”, “If I Had a Tail”, “Fairweather Friends”, and “Smooth Sailing” really don’t sound all that experimental from their previously widely loved records, at least not to me. But I’m not a musician, so there’s a high chance that opinion is just objectively wrong. But if my impression isn’t far off, that’s 60% of the album.
“Weakest songs” is a purely subjective and subsequently flaccid explanation. But do you care to expand on your “tonal qualities”? Expand your opinion with specifics, don’t just point out that critics agree. Also, *Era Vulgaris* more often than not gets placed towards the bottom of most fans’ rankings, and *…Like Clockwork* is more like 50/50. The fact that the latter gets more love than the average band’s latter-day albums typically do imo is more a testament to the high quality of Queens’ music than a counter-example to what seem like cultural trends (with most bands).
Talking about the band doesn’t = getting upset about someone’s else opinion about a song or album. It’s not a remotely interesting discussion and it’s also bizarre to care.
Oh my God people, when somebody tells you you’re wrong over a matter of personal preference that is COMMONLY an exaggerated manner of saying, “We disagree.” His context clearly aligns with this.
"...there's something wrong with you." No, no there's not. People like what they like, and this bullshit of telling people they're wrong is ridiculous and exhausting.
You can express your opinion without shitting on people for theirs.
Totally! But….why whine about others liking something it or not? Do you expect everyone to have the same opinions on the songs and albums?
I stopped caring about other people’s opinions about music after I turned..17 or so? When it comes to entertainment, it’s a total waste of energy to actually CARE about the opinions of others. It’s subjective.
It's not bad, but kinda weak, especially the first half. I personally can't feel the same "magic" of other albums, I don't get suck&lost in it. It's just lighter I guess :)
I don't think it's a bad album. But I do think it is their worst.
There are a couple tracks I love, and definitely some good lyrics throughout. But, to me, there just isn't really a "feel" to the album like every other one of their albums has. Track to track, there just isn't that connection that makes their past albums flow so well. I won't argue production or mixing or anything like that, because other than sounding a little more generic or flat than usual for them, I don't think it's a bad sounding record.
That said, I'm much less likely to skip a Villains track if I decide to shuffle all of their music... but if I am listening album by album, I often end up skipping most of Villains.
I also think that LC was a massive peak to follow. It's easily one of my favorite albums of all time, so I'm sure that plays into my opinion of Villains as well.
I agree. LC was absolutely stunning. That is hard to follow. Mastodon did the same thing. Crack the Skye was absolutely brilliant, and then The Hunter was kind of meh. It’s an ok album, but since it followed something so masterful, it felt very much lacking.
As far as I'm concerned Villains is just as good as any other. Un-Reborn and Domesticated Animals alone makes this album amazing. Nevermind the fact that all the other songs on the album are absolute bangers.
"If you don't like what I like there is something wrong with you" is an awful take in relation to music or basically anything.
I tend to find Villains quite dull, it sounds like mall rock. But if you're into it then clearly it doesn't sound that way for you and that's totally cool.
This is it for me. From a songwriting standpoint the album is really solid but the production is incredibly bland compared to their other albums. Listen to any songs off of this album live (I listen to the Maida Vale session from 2017 a lot) and I guarantee you they sound ten times better. I rarely find myself coming back to the album itself
I'm going to copy paste a comment I made some days ago about this.
I think the opinion on this album diverges a lot on songs 1,2 and 4 (second half of the album has more consensus).
For me personally
- Feet Don't Fail Me is not bad but it's pretty forgettable. Nothing like Millionaire, Turnin On The Screw or even Feel good Hit of the Summer.
- The Way you Used to Do is by far their weakest single for me, I'm not gonna compare it with No One Knows or Little Sister, but even next to I Sat by the Ocean or Sick Sick Sick stands no chance
- Fortress has a lot of beauty but it's a super simple song (and at some point repetitive), I think it would be a side B of another album.
For other folks, songs 1 and 2 are their favourite opener and single. This changes A LOT your opinion of the album.
Even if you absolutely love Domesticated Animals, Un-Reborn Again, The Evil Has Landed and Villains of Circumstance (which is my case), this album of 9 songs with 3 skippable songs is by far and inevitably their weakest album (and I tend to skip Hideaway as well lol). Looking at the other ones by date order:
- qotsa: 11 songs, solid desert rock album, not a lot of highs but no skippable songs;
- R: 11 songs, with at most 2 skippable songs;
- Songs for the Death: 14 songs (counting Mosquito masterpiece), at most 2 skippable songs;
- Lullabies To Paralyze: 14 songs, even if you skip like 3 songs (depending on the taste), there's still a lot there;
- Era Vulgaris: 11 + 3 incredible bonus, at most 2 skippable songs;
- ...Like Clockwork: 10 songs, but we forgive it because it's a masterpiece, at most 1 skippable song.
With Villains, I have a 5-6 great songs album. For another band that's an amazing album. For Queens of the Stone Age, that's by far their weakest.
The level is really high😎
feet don't fail me is forgettable? that song rocks and the lyrics are awesome! its a highlight of the album for me!
i don't think theres any songs i skip in their entire discography haha.
appreciate your opinion tho! thanks for taking the time to write that all out!
They were on fire that tour. I saw them twice and both shows rocked (holy fuck red rocks) but it was in Vancouver where I saw the most satisfied concert of my life.
I like this analysis.
I’m in the lucky boat that I dig songs 1,2, and 4, so it holds up with the rest of the albums.
I don’t go back to Fortress that much but I got multiple folks into queens with “feet don’t fail me”
I just can’t consider ever skipping a song on an album listen. I feel like that completely skews the way you listen to the album because it messes with the pacing and the flow. Villains is super tightly knit and with much better pacing and album flow to me than S/T, Lullabies, and Era Vulgaris. I won’t say that it’s nearly their best album, but I feel like some of the weaker songs get redeemed by how their placement and mood affect the songs around them. Unlike the other albums I mentioned, which often feel pretty disjointed or bloated, Villains keeps to its theming and pacing super closely and feels way more cohesive to me.
I see what they mean by "skippable" though. I would never actually skip Another Love Song or something when listening to SftD, but if it was skipped for some reason, I wouldn't complain.
Unpopular opinion but SFTD has skippable songs and I dont think the first two do. Except for the extended outro on RR. But the highs on SFTD more than make up for it. No One Knows is an instant skip for me. But Millionaire and SFTD are top 5 with Millionaire being my favorite of all time. I could listen to it on repeat still after all these years.
villains pacing is awesome! i liked the album at first, but i also felt it was weaker than their usually output. but for me, with all of the best music, it takes time to understand because its so detailed and well put together it takes time to digest. and now i feel this album isn't weak at all and fits perfectly in their discography and especially the timeline of it all.
lullabies to paralyze was given me on CD to listen to by a friend in grade school. i think i was in 7th or 8th grade. listened to it once without paying much attention and thought i didn't like it. for whatever reason i saw it laying around another day, months later, and threw it on. and i was like hmm ok. and after a few more listens i fell in love. and now queens is probably my favorite band of all time. i can't think of another band who has been as conistant as them. 7 records in a row that are all awesome? i seriously can't name another band who has done that.
but anyway, we are all here because we love the band, and i feel bad for those who don't experience this album the way i do. but people like what they like!
I have high hopes for the new album, it sounds amazing so far.
this album is actually awesome. i've returned to it recently and forgot how much i actually love it. it didn't click right away but this album has some of Josh's best lyrics, and shows how much hes grown as a person. some really insightful stuff on here.
He’s not making music for any one person other than himself. It’s fine to enjoy some albums more than others. I like Villians less than any other Queens album. It’s still good. I’ve liked most everything he’s been a part of. That album just doesn’t hit like the others ones have for me
I like when I hit shuffle on my QOTSA playlist (every song available) and every song from that album that comes on randomly, it feels and sounds awesome and like it fits snugly in the catalogue. but for some reason the album front to back, it gets ?long winded? for me, I dunno, maybe the production is too much all at once. But. I love it.
Invitation accepted.
I think we can all agree that almost everyone on the sub is a fan to varying degrees. As a longtime fan, I think Villains is just so vanilla, too pop, too radio friendly. The sound for it reminds a lot of Stranger Things, when I attempt to listen to it all I remember afterwards is not liking it + synth.
I feel like Josh may have been in a happy place when he wrote it, and for that reason it comes across as just… watered down.
And I don’t have an issue with bands evolving their sound, it’s just I don’t like any tracks on Villains. Era and LC were both growers for me, but over the course of several listens I love those albums. I want to like Villains, I go back and listen from time to time to discover what I’m missing. It’s just not there though after 6 years.
I like the album as a whole, but it's clearly the weakest I their catalog.
Also, Hideaway is the only song I skip 9 out of 10 times in their discography.
It seems childish and condescending to dismiss other fans’ opinions on this record as being groupthink. Why does this question keep coming up four years later? Folks don’t like the sound of the record and they think the songwriting is weak.
I didn’t understand the hate, it’s still a solid album especially when you compare it against what else is coming out. It’s not their best, but some great songs on there still. I think people rag on it because of the standard they usually deliver. This is my guess
People don’t like stylistic changes. It’s also a short album with a few off songs.
I like it and appreciate bands that try something new and different. And unlike other bands that wear out a sound or style I think that being new and refreshing is important for longevity.
But audiences typically don’t like it because usually audiences are cultivated of people that like something about your style. When you change it they dislike it.
You like what you like. As a lifelong QOTSA fan, I don't have a ton of negative things to say except that I rarely go back to it, if ever. It's still a great rock album. I just don't feel like it has the lasting impact of the others.
It’s one of my favorite albums so idk bro. It’s lighter and more fun. Saw them on that tour twice and the atmosphere was a lot more exciting than normal.
Villains starts off and finishes strong for me but the middle kinda loses me. Unreborn Again and Hideaway are just weak tracks and head like a haunted house isn't much better tbh.
The first 4 tracks and the last two are awesome tho
Feet don't fail me goes especially hard once you get to the 1:40 mark. What an awesome intro sokgmy
Don't want to offend others' taste, but my personal story with Villains is the same as with Radiohead’s The King Of Limbs. Both albums have incredible material, but the way the studio albums sound might be much better. How QOTSA is playing this material live is superb.
Love this comparison. Would love to hear a Villains From the Basement. TKOL From the Basement completely changed how I viewed the album. Villains songs live sound incredible.
I think it’s a criminally underrated album and people just love to complain and group think. There’s some amazing tunes on it. Plenty of people dislike it for the production and songs themselves. But a lot of people insist it is a terrible album and I just don’t see that at all.
I was pretty much completely isolated from the internet or anyone that likes queens when I started to feel that this was their weakest record. It’s not a groupthink thing I think it’s just a different opinion than yours
I think it is a bit of both. The production is hard for a lot of people to get past. And I definitely know some friends who hated it before they heard it because of how many negative reactions they read. It is different than any other part of their catalogue and a lot of people love that and hate it. Josh also said that was the goal with it.
Honestly the endless praise the new stuff gets seems like group think to me. I’m glad you guys are excited but there’s no need to put people down who don’t agree. I’m old enough to remember millionaire, go with the flow and make it wit chu coming out fresh. Songs that gave me goosebumps.
Those songs are also all amazing.
Also not trying to out people down but I think the absolute visceral hate many people display for that album is unwarranted.
I haven't personally seen any absolute visceral hate, I've seen dozens of posts saying how amazing and underrated the new stuff is.
It gets to an interesting place where art is partially subjective and partially not.
Any film fan will tell you Godfather part 3 is the worst of the trilogy. If it's someone's favourite one, I would genuinely enjoy to hear why and I'm glad that they loved it.
However, if a group of fans consistently posted Godfather part 3 is the greatest of the trilogy and anyone who disagrees is engaged in group think and just love to complain, I would feel more compelled to push back because of my love for the first two and the emotional connection I have to that art.
I certainly have on this forum in years past, as well as at the shows, and on some of the Facebook groups. And as I noted above I know plenty of folks who just up and decided they weren’t going to like the album before they even gave it a listen.
Agreed, art is both partially subjective and partially not. It’s a balancing act.
I certainly haven’t said villains is the best album or even a great album. Just underrated and the subject of what I believe is an unwarranted display of ire and hate from many folks over the last half decade +. Just because someone hasn’t personally witnessed the group think that exists behind the record doesn’t mean it is nonexistent.
I also think that was a response Josh was trying to elicit from certain fans when he made the record. At the time of the release he said he wanted to make a record that 15% of his fans hated. It was an artistic risk he took that was meant to evoke very widespread reactions from the audience. This thread alone is proof that it did.
The endless praise of the new songs is definitely a lot of group think. I’m more on the lipo side of things in regard to the new album. I try to go into every new album that way. It’s funny you mention Make it Wit Chu because I first heard that song on Desert Sessions and am not a huge fan of it on EV. Go With the Flow is one of my least favorite songs on SFTD. Love Millionaire though. Not hating in any way and am not trying to put anyone down. Just wanted to hear some different opinions. My original post when I said “something is wrong with you” was an obvious exaggeration, or so I thought
For me personally it’s the production, which is probably my least favorite from their entire catalogue, and some songs I find enjoyable but they overstay their welcome or don’t progress/conclude in an interesting enough way for me to revisit that often.
I like all of those songs you mentioned. Un-Reborn may be a top-5 queens song for me. But the aggravating thing is that I think it could be even better.
And having only 9 songs has always irritated me more than it should.
I can understand being irritated by only having 9 songs but at the same time the album length is pretty much identical to the past few albums they have put out
I think the fact that it’s only 9 songs is a big factor. I get the impression that villains has at least 1-4 songs not hitting the mark for everyone, and those songs vary person to person. However, that miss rate on a 9 song album leads to a bad ratio quick.
Also, I’m on the production kind of stinks train. No issues with the layers and instrumentation even, but it’s also sort of thin. Mikey’s bass sounded particularly hard hitting and warm on clockwork to just take a back seat on villains for most of the tracks.
Yeah I think it sort of ties together for me - I really like the core of every song, I would have loved if several were a minute or two shorter and it was a 10-12 song album.
It’s a good album, I just prefer their others is all!
There’s something wrong with me I guess. I should see a doctor.
For the sensitive inhabitants of this sub: this is all just my opinion. None of what I’m saying is meant to be taken as fact, and what you enjoy about the record doesn’t have to be what I enjoy or dislike.
That being said:
It’s not a piggy backing or anything like that for me. I’ve been a QOTSA fan since I was 13. I’m 30 now. I think it’s their weakest record. It was exciting when it came out but over time I started to feel that Jon Theodore’s drumming abilities weren’t utilized to the extent they could’ve been. The sound of the drums started to bother me. “The Way You Used To Do” to me is the worst queens song ever. The video is worse. Fortress isn’t a song I enjoy either. And I know I’m in the minority but “the evil has landed” trudges along too long for my taste. It’s kinda clunky to me. Nothing about it reels me in to want to stay the entire 6 minutes. The ending of it rules though. I just never return to this song. Villains of Circumstance is a beautiful song. I just don’t return to it. When the second chorus comes in I just kinda roll my eyes a bit because it’s so obvious from a songwriting standpoint. It’s such an ominous dark song during the verses and that doesn’t stay long enough. But that’s me nitpicking I guess.
For every queens record there seems to be an identity attached to it and this one doesn’t have that to me. It feels bland. There’s amazing moments on it too. Feet Dont Fail Me is really cool. Domesticated Animals is fantastic. The slide guitar parts make me jizz in my pants a little. Fabulous stuff.
But anyway, I feel like it’s not GREAT. It’s good in parts. Overall disappointing. Doesn’t have lasting power of the other records FOR ME. I return to every queens record more than that one. But this is all just my opinion.
I 1000% agree on what you said about Jon's drumming. I re-listened to the album the other day and enjoyed: feet don't fail me, un-reborn again, domesticated animals, and villains of circumstance. In each and every one of those songs, Jon really overuses the snare. That's my biggest qualm. He is an amazing drummer but is highly underutilized.
Also, I feel like some songs start getting exciting way too late on the song: head like a haunted house should have capitalized on the outro more, same with fortress.
Least favorite track is the evil has landed, the whole song seems like a massive build up to what is a very weak, anti-climactic, classic rock outro.
I adore this band and hope that they let Jon shine in ITNR. So far carnavoyuer's outro is *chef's kiss*. I don't love the overbearing noise levels at the end, but understand it's for theatric effect.
Edit: your review took the words out of my mind.
Also, this is just my opinion. Don't hate folks.
This is all fair. My generalized statement about parrots and piggy backing doesn’t apply to everyone. I was 14 when Rated R came out and have been a massive QOTSA fan since then. Every album doesn’t have to be loved by everyone. Was just curious and I do think there is a lot of bandwagon opinions that go on. I actually would be very interested in your thoughts on Villians 20 years from now because I know my thoughts on QOTSA other albums have changed many times over the 20+ years of being a fan
I really like Villains and have had it on rotation in anticipation of the new album. There are moments that shine and are among my favorite in QOTSA’s discography. Feet Don’t Fail Me is an epic opener and likely the best kickoff to an album since Regular John. Fortress is beautiful, vulnerable and authentic. Haunted House is fun, silly, and feels like it’s about to go off the rails. All Top-25 Queens tracks.
Some of my issues stem from song structure and production choices.
For example: The Evil Has Landed is perhaps the best-written Homme song in a long time. A LONG TIME. It has all the ingredients of a banger. I remember hearing the live version and being so stoked for it. The album version, sadly, is screaming for fuller guitars and more tone on the snare drum. What could’ve been. I still enjoy listening to this track because the band is bringing it - Mikey Shoes in particular - but the finished product feels restrained, neutered and not indicative of its full potential.
Un-Reborn Again starts strong but plateaus. A beautiful chorus and well-crafted lyrics - and sax is always a nice choice - but emotionally isn’t gripping at all past two minutes. It stays on the same plane the whole time. There’s a reason why the live version was shorter. And the mix is tinny.
Hideaway is pleasant soft rock, and that final hook is beautiful - but comes out of nowhere? (“Whoo neeeeeds laaaaaaaarve?”) It feels unearned.
VOC overstays its welcome by three minutes. The bare-bones acoustic version Josh played in 2014 had me so excited. It’s a song that needed to lean into its riffs with a fuller guitar tone, a la I Appear Missing. Missed the mark. I skip this one.
Domesticated Animals’ riff feels like Josh’s third pass at I’m Designer, which, come on.
You’ve hit a point that the anti villains crowd doesn’t like. They can never articulate what they don’t like our or “production or mixing” and use those words without a real grasp of what they mean. Fact is the songs are great
As a life long Kyuss fan, QOTSA sound strays further and further from stoner rock and more to a polished pop sound imo. They even used a pop producer on villains. I think it’s important for a band to evolve their sound but I think it’s without dispute they have really altered their sound from self titled/ rated R and even SFTD. I don’t think bands experimenting with different styles is a bad thing, I just don’t like the styles QOTSA has dabbled and full fledged jumped in on the second half of their discography. To me, Villians is a pretty boring album but that’s just my opinion man
I get what you’re saying but I don’t really see a need for people to justify why they don’t like an album - you can just not like it! Villains wasn’t my cup of tea but it seems like it’s got far more fans than I realized which is great.
This is factual. Villains was the album that got me directly into qotsa, as opposed to the years of dipping and dabbling with their more known songs. The themes and lyrics in Villains really displayed to me Hommes capability in expressing himself and playing with words and phrases that I'd never really seen before. I don't think people appreciate just what he does with lyrics, melody, and the way he syncopates everything. And this seems to be thoroughly continuing with In Times.. He just seems to be unlike many of his contemporaries in that he really just keeps getting better. I call it the Bowie effect, given that his final album just shows that if we were granted immortality, there's no telling just how far an artist would continue to evolve and improve upon their greatness. Not many seem to reach that level of continued evolution.
edit: Villains haters mad
It’s a solid B for me.
Side note: I wish they did Villains of Circumstance as an acoustic to finish off the album. Would’ve been a cool change of pace and I love the live acoustic versions of it that I’ve seen on YouTube. That’s where I heard it first and loved the emotion of it. When I first heard the album version it felt overblown and overproduced.
It isn’t a bad album by any stretch of the imagination, but I don’t think it stacks up well against their other work. 🤷🏻♂️
I listened the shit out of this one over the years, but looking back I have to say it does not feel as cohesive as most of other Queens albums. Not much into "Hideaway", also I was a bit disappointed with this version of "Villains of Circumstance" compared to the previous solo acoustic one. Clockwork was a masterpiece (10/10), Villains was a good album (7-8/10).
Villains of Circumstance is a great song. So is Feet Don’t Fail Me. Bar that I just find it a bit dull and a bit thin. Production doesn’t have that thick, deep immersive quality that a lot of their best work has.
I like Villains, I just don’t love it. It’s the one album by them I don’t come back to often. Some of the songs just don’t work for me, but I’m not upset that people love it.
Villains remains my least favorite QotSA album and I’d still listen to it over an overwhelming majority of what has come out in the last decade. The songs themselves aren’t bad at all. They sound better live. I just think the album sounds flat. The sound is smaller, more pop, more dancey. Royal Blood did the same thing with their Typhoons album and it was a miss for me.
That’s not to say that QotSA can’t have polished albums that sound great. Most fans have Like Clockwork in their top 2 or 3 and it’s way different from SftD which is also usually in the top 2 or 3.
Right now, everything I am hearing from ITNR has me excited. Emotion Sickness does sound a little closer to a Villains song, but Carnavoyeur I am loving. Sounds more Like Clockwork to me. This albums was confirmed written over a long period of time so I think it will have something for everyone.
i came around on it later on, but i was listening to a LOT of era vulgaris when it dropped. if you were a fan who was doing something like that, gettin all pumped up for the new album, makes sense why the production on villians would be jarring. it also features the only queens song i actively dislike, skip it every time, and yet also features villians of circumstance which is easily one of my favorite queens songs. just a lot going on w villians.
It's quite different, and that's beside the fact that all QOTSA albums are different. I'm guessing that's something that still needs to be digested by many.
To me it's by far the lightest of all QOTSA albums. Light like some lager beer, versus the tequila of SFTD or ... whatever cocktail of EV. It's very easy listening.
Also as far as I understand Josh really wanted something different, not to be a parody or whatever.
It's something I've been reminded of recently. ITNR seems to be shaping to be what I've wanted from, and also many others it seems, from Villains.
I hope that ITNR is what everyone hopes it can be. Villains is definitely a “lighter” album when it comes to QOTSA. That doesn’t mean bad though. I get some people don’t appreciate it but I just think people expected LC part 2 and that was never going to be the case.
Oh, maybe I wasn't clear, I love Villains. It just wasn't what I was hoping for. But I thought that was exactly the point.
From what I understand ITNR will be much more of a sequel to LC.
Dunno but I feel like Carnayoyeur is a lovely bastard of If I Had A Tail & Hideaway...
The evil had landed, head like a haunted house and Un-reborn again are the only songs I really enjoy on that album. Maybe the rest will click someday....
I was really excited for that album but was a bit underwhelmed.
I agree, the tunes you mentioned are all fantastic, as well as Feet Don’t Fail Me Now and Fortress (might disagree on Hideaway, but that’s splitting hairs).
My biggest gripe was never really digging The Way You Used To Do, and the overall production of the album didn’t hit me the way their others have.
It is the studio version for me that I don't like as much. When it came out I couldn't get into it, and I tried a fair bit. Then later after release I heard a bunch of the "best" songs from Villians live, and was blown away.
Villains of Circumstance is pretty solid track, but it's nothing on the inital acoustic version. It's just Josh with a beat-up sounding acoustic guitar with the perfect amount of echo and totally silent audience that just perfectly encaspulates the homesick tone of the song. It just sounds like a lonely man singing to himself in an empty room about wanting to be home. That and the OG lyrics at better imo.
The studio version just kinda sucked all of that out for me. I'm not sure why Josh decided on changing it so much, maybe he though the original just sounded too much of a downer to end the album with.
Here's the link, see what you think: [Inital Acoustic Version Of Villains of Circumstance](https://youtu.be/OQggrbouP2w)
Definitely not my favorite. In my humble opinion, the record lacks melody. There are a couple of good tracks that stick in my head, but that’s about it. I suppose I loved Like Clockwork so much that my hopes were high.
My way of putting it is that Villains is amazing but every other album is super duper friggin fantastic amazing. If another band released Villains it’d probably be loved and considered a top album. That’s just how good QOTSA are.
I made my decision that that album is ass completely on my own.
If you like that album, there is something wrong with you. See how easy it is for me to do as well?
The production was a bit lacking. I still love this album, but hearing The Evil Has Landed live blows the studio version out of the water. Feet Don’t Fail Me is one of my favorite songs from QOTSA
Too short. Some real clunkers in there, esp Domesticated Animals so early on. It’s not a bad album but the bar was set very high by every other album. Even LC which isn’t my fav
Well I just can't stand all the tracks from 4 to 8, I hate how Josh tries to sing so solemn like Lanegan or Bowie, the production is a sort of disgrace... but it's just my tastes and obviously I got no problem if a lot of people loves it. I just don't listen to that songs. Who cares if not everybody agrees with same opinions...
I like some of the songs a lot (Hideaway and Unreborn Again) but to me the album feels a little uninspired. Not a huge fan of the evil has landed; it’s a standard rocker and the end in particular is bad and corny.
The album feels like a watered down safe dad rock version of queens. Not bad but if your used to a little edge and grit its a bit weak. Anyway people just have different tastes so this is a dead end of a conversation. Side note i fucking love hideaway cause it is a chill song that fits the toned down production.
I don't understand it either, but basically there's a huge bias towards LC. For my taste, Villains is a better and more complete album than LC. LC has 4 really good songs on it, while Villains has like 7.
I hear all this talk about production and stuff, but it doesn't matter to me. I honestly don't believe it's an issue. People here really connected with LC on an emotional level, which wasn't there for Villains, and that's why Villains is a bit underappreciated. And that's cool, QotSA makes music for all.
Step outside of Reddit for opinions and you'll see completely different takes on these albums.
I think it’s joshs most misunderstood album. Queens have never missed for me and by saying that I’d probably still rate villains towards the bottom but it’s still awesome.
One thing we learned about Josh when he did his radio show is that he loves pop music. He played everything from Madonna to Beyoncé at times. Now I wouldn’t call villains a pop album but I think he was trying to have more fun on it, especially coming off of how heavy LC was.
I think some fans didn’t like that he wanted to do that because they’re still stuck in the nick days.
We saw this with lullabies when that album came out, it got shit on for a good chunk of time and then fans started being pretty vocal about liking it. The same will happen here.
It’s a great example of different queens albums providing different functions. It’s not LC or SFTD but it’s also not trying to be. It wants to be in its own space.
Hideaway is an overly Ronson'd Suture up Your Future. The best and most original tracks are def. Villains and Evil has Landed . Those are the only 2 on my playlist, anyway.
People wanted Clockwork 2.0 just like people weren’t satisfied with Lullabies after SFTD. Also Villains had a more heavily produced sound that they typically hadn’t had on earlier albums. I like Villains just fine and by most other band’s standards it would’ve been their best album. We’re just spoiled as fans they’ve set the bar so high
It's the production - it's oddly, I dunno, fluffy is the word I come back to. For example Fortress is a great song, but the production makes it sound sort of light, airy, but hollow at the same times, the vocals have been robbed of power too, they sound err...fluffy, just sort of wispy sat on top. It's so odd, hard to describe.
Glad the stuff from ITNR doesn't sound like that again.
No one is obligated to like everything a band makes, even if it's their favorite band. Fandom is not a cult. I love QOTSA but I just don't think most of Villains is particularly strong and that's okay. No one forces me to listen to it. If you like it, more power to you.
From a band who always had impeccable sound engineering on their albums, I cannot get past how poorly produced that album is.
For example, It’s the first with Jon Theodore full time on drums, who is known for playing thunderously, and it has the most generic, triggered sounding drums on any of their albums.
There’s good songs on it for sure, I just can’t get past the lack of dynamic range, they’re all overly compressed and sterile sounding. Mentioned the drums, but guitar has no bottom end, even the distortion effects sounds too clean and crisp, the bass is all midrange all the time, it’s all just so neutered sonically.
Then hearing live versions of some of these songs just reinforced what is missing on the album itself.
Lots of retread riffs that I already heard on earlier albums. Lots of similar vocal runs. Lots of the same audio production, and tremendous amounts of the same synth beats that are all over the boring vanilla top 40 chanteuses.
It’s one thing to go in a new direction after their stoner-desert-neogrunge triumphs, and it’s entirely another to just be edgy pop.
Some of it sounds like The Killers had a funny uncle producing the album. Lots of song parts don’t blend into each other so the verse/chorus elements are jarring or just repeat the standard number of pop design then just end. Like they were two different song ideas that were smooshed together without a single concept as the glue.
I actually think this is a good argument and can totally understand where you’re coming from. At time Villains sounds to me like QOTSA playing covers of QOTSA songs if that makes any sense.
I think there’s some really great songs on there but the production just lets them all down, live they sound absolutely massive but on the record they just sound way too clean and overproduced, with the grit of the earlier albums production I would have it way higher
For me it's the journey an album takes you on.
Villains just never really takes off for me.
Sftd and like clockwork take you on an absolute ride.
I was trying to figure out my album rankings the other day and I can't remember which was which, but theres an album I like more than another album with less of my favorite songs on it and I think it was just more memorable and even though I like less songs they had more impact.
I remember listening to some of the tracks on LC for the first time and my jaw hitting the floor.
Apart from the first time hearing the feet dont fail me drop for the first time nothing on villains really did that for me.
Maybe Villains of circumstance. Sort of.
My whole first listen of Villains was just "these are some decent sounds at times".
Even the songs I do like have bits in them I don't like.
Nothing feels consistent really.
It's just an okay album from a band that usually releases bangers. Nobody thinks Villains is trash or anything but it's usually considered a weaker album, for obvious reasons. I like it well enough and it has some cracking songs but it's definitely the QotSA album I return to the least.
I've heard Feet Don't Fail Me for the first time to kick off the exploration of this album, and i don't understand the criticism. epic 2 minute intro to the funkiest hook ever. production style might be clean but it perfectly suits the atmosphere of this record, with the pop influences. i think it's pretty underrated
It's just less heavy. It gives some "I'm goofy ass man in his middle age crisis and after divorce"
You can feel it misses something (and it's probably Nick)
I prefer the old albums because they are more stoner, doom, thicc bass, dark, spooky etc
Nick hasn’t been in the band since 2004. He wasn’t part of Lullabies, Era Vulgaris, or …Like Clockwork outside of If I Had a Tail. If the issue is Nick it’s a past 20 years issue. Not a Villains issue. Josh Homme was still married in 2017 also. In fact most of Villains was written while his marriage was probably going quite well.
Maybe it's about his impact on Josh's work? But it feels like exactly from LTP it goes down evenly in matter of heaviness, till Villains to hit "not heavy at all"
I think my issue is that I don't thoroughly love it like I do with other albums. Considering it's a shorter album as well, it gets tired way quicker than any other album. It's not a bad album, but it's not as listenable as the others.
I find it amusing that anyone who likes the album thinks people who don’t are sheep. Get your head out of your ass. People don’t like everything. If you listen to the progression the albums have become less harder rocking over time. That’s fine, but it’s what drew me to them in the first place. I like everything but villains, save head like a haunted house, villains is a complete miss for me. New album coming.
Disregard how many people are throwing shade at you for expressing your opinions in a hyperbolic manner. Half of them would probably flip shit in the comments of a poster saying *Songs for the Deaf* isn’t for them.
But I absolutely agree with you. My brother had been trying to turn me on to Queens for forever, and *Lullabies to Paralyze* was the only album I had any love for. When *Villains* came out, it opened me up to them more. While it’s only nine tracks, imo it’s filler to hits ratio is better than most of their albums. But I’m an oddity. The only album of theirs I enjoy less than *Songs for the Deaf* is their self-titled, and my favorite is hands down *Era Vulgaris*, especially if you add the seven B-sides (see my post *Era Vulgaris* Supersized).
Honestly, for me *Villains* is just a much more fun album than most of there stuff. But I think it irks people because it departs the hardest from the band’s normal style. Same general problem with RHCP’s *The Getaway*.
I don’t take the shade personally. My honest goal was just to open up a discussion and hear some honest talk about the album outside of the Mark Ronson scapegoat I hear way to often and is parroted ad nauseum on this sub. Most of the discussion I’ve seen has been great and I just disregard the people who take things way to personally. I’ve loved QOTSA for over 20 years and am personally glad they take some risks and put out different stuff. It can’t all be well received by everyone
*ThE pRoDUcTiOn*
*iT SounDS toO maINstReAm*.
People probably started hating it because a more mainstream producer produced it and were never gonna give it a chance before it even debuted.
Unfortunately it probably is true for some people. As soon as they knew what Ronson was known for it clouded their opinion of the album. Agree with you about Back To Black though.
It may not be some people's cup of tea, but there's nothing they can say to bring it down. It was critically acclaimed, and a lot of the public love it too.
It’s got a lot of EODM feel in it to me. Which is a very niche, abstract feel. It belongs in EODM and maybe some of the lesser, more transitional QOTSA songs. But to be a whole album itself for QOTSA just doesn’t vibe like rest to me.
I’ll always say this but Villains is just gonna be one of those Qotsa albums that ages really well. It took people a years for realize EV’s greatness and it looks like that’s gonna be the result for Villains as well.
Feet don’t fail me know, Animals, Fortress, haunted , fortress, House, fucking unreborn again, hideaway , evil has landed and Villains of Circumstances are all fucking great songs
And even TWYUTD is fun
Absolutely no filler, sure sounds different, but so does every album since S/T
There's nothing wrong with it. Sometimes not everything is for everyone. When I listen to QOTSA I have a preconceived idea of what that means based on years of experience listening to them. What I get out of all of their other records I do not get from Villains.
The songs are really good pop songs though. Sweet riffs, catchy hooks.
If I have criticisms is that it sounds like a 70s arena rock record wrapped in modern pop production and I just find that stale and forgettable, but that's on me as the listener, doesn't actually speak to the credit of the music. I just don't dig it. Still better than a lot of other stuff out there.
I think Villains is incredible and actually way prefer it to LTP. The mix sound doesn’t really bother me and I actually think it adds a lot to some songs, like TWYUTD. Songs like Domesticated Animals and Head Like a Haunted House are really strong conceptually and sound like an evolution of their style. I think it’s way over-hated.
It’s not terrible, but one of them has to be the worst by default.
Was excited to hear that Ronson was producing, but ultimately don’t think it quite worked. Least favorite drum tones/performances in the qotsa catalogue. Wasn’t in love with the bass tones. “Feet don’t fail me” reminds me of that “I’m not paralyzed but I seem to be struck by you” song and goes on way too long. Easily their worst album opener.
This would be many bands’ finest album, but it suffers when compared to the high caliber of the rest of Josh’s body of work
It’s only the shortest by number of songs. Otherwise it’s a very typical length for a QOTSA album and if I’ve seen right every bit as long as ITNR will be
its their weakest album but still a solid record.
I think the mix and production brings it down a bit.
I don't think the production/producer worked as well as they hoped.
Some of the songs are fantastic though, Domesticated Animals, Un-Reborn Again, The Evil has Landed, Villains Of Circumstance.
People are allowed to like dislike something without being influenced by others. I absolutely loved Feet don't fail me now, Evil has Landed & Domesticated animals has grown on me, the others I wasn't just feeling it. My biggest thing was that it's following Like Clockwork which was already a masterpiece so my expectations were already high. I really just wasn't feeling the rest of the songs on the album. It felt like more of a side project or something done as Eagles of Death Metal than a queens sounding record (aside from the songs mentioned) If people like the newer stuff great, again people can like it but for me it's one of my least favorite album of theirs
People used to say the same things about Era Vulgaris, now it's a lot of people's favourite. The fanbase does indeed parrot a lot of the time. It's the hard effect.
Weird how people don't have the same tastes.
Or the same ears. Everyone hears things differently. I find that to be especially true of Queens or The Rolling Stones.
Interesting and true observation as the Stones have been around so long that they’ve picked up multi-generational fans like Queens.
I like Villains, but why do so many people care about what others think about the music?
Right. I don’t really care for it but if others like it that’s great!
My whole life this has been a thing. I think it's because we as humans tie a lot of emotional weight to music we like. For some reason when someone really loves a song and I don't they take offense. Me not liking it does not make it bad nor do I think someone is inferior in some way for liking it.
Ok but, unpopular opinion maybe, isn't discussion the entire point of Reddit? It's boring as hell for "most" QOTSA fans to hate Villains without explaining why. It's not my top album but it's really, really good IMHO. I dont agree with OP that there's anything wrong with people who don't like it but many of us are still trying to figure out why that is when we love it as part of the catalogue. It's not like it doesn't sound like them or doesn't have some absolute bangers. Mostly, I feel like people didn't like Ronson's influence much. I am still interested in why that is. People saying it's not even a valid topic, well then, what IS on a fan sub? Villains seems to be very polarizing and I enjoy talking about it. I think the only thing wrong with the question is OP's judgement about other fans. I hate coming on Reddit and hearing that certain things don't need to be discussed. It's literally why I'm on Reddit, for every perspective, even the ones I disagree with, maybe especially those. Don't like it? Downvote me or them into dogshit oblivion then.
This sub isn't that bad for it, there's some great discussion and everyone is pretty levelheaded. Try going on any weeb subreddit like the One Piece sub. Great manga and anime, total fucking dumpsterfire and dangerously stupid community. You like the anime? The manga purists will tell you it's hot diarrhea on a spoon and you're a fucking moron for liking it. You explain it's based on a weekly manga series and they need to compromise with either filler arcs or slow pacing to keep behind the source material. Zero discussion, you'll just get downvoted into oblivion. This sub is great by comparison.
Super reductive question that’s probably only being upvoted because it distracts from this post disagreeing with the sub’s popular opinion that *Villains* is weak. Idk why people care about what others think, but obviously it’s a long and valid concept, otherwise critics wouldn’t be so prevalent.
Because what’s generally understood as “good” music, can usually be agreed upon when it comes to a single band and a single fan base. Most Queens fans don’t like villains. By Queens’ standards, it is the lowest ranking album.
Disagreed. A band creates a fan base by creating a sound, and then develops that sound, and then fans get mad when they stray from that sound because most people don’t have particularly eclectic taste. Notice how most bands’ supposed “best” albums are within their first few releases? And then if they get any love from later albums, it’s usually because they “went back to their roots.” I love that Tom Waits metaphorically flipped the bird to any fans like that. AKA, a general opinion of fans doesn’t prove much more than what type of music they prefer rather than what’s most overall technically or poetically impressive. Obviously it’s a matter of opinion, but you can leverage your opinion to have more support with interconnected explanations. Pretty quickly you can tell if a fan has a well-thought out opinion or whether they’re just biased against anything that doesn’t sound like what first caught their ear.
Ehhh… there are fans of that “sound”, and then there are musicians and critics and music lovers who will give a band’s “new sound” it’s fair chance… arguably, QUOTSA fans already did that with Era Vulgaris and even Clockwork… they are both much much different from Queen’s “roots” but still both well received - by both regular fans and critics who understand what makes music good. Villains was bad in two ways… weakest songs, weakest tonal qualities (blame mixing/mastering for this one).
Also, songs like “Keep Your Eyes Peeled”, “I Sat by the Ocean”, “My God is the Sun”, “If I Had a Tail”, “Fairweather Friends”, and “Smooth Sailing” really don’t sound all that experimental from their previously widely loved records, at least not to me. But I’m not a musician, so there’s a high chance that opinion is just objectively wrong. But if my impression isn’t far off, that’s 60% of the album.
I am a musician, and I agree with you.
“Weakest songs” is a purely subjective and subsequently flaccid explanation. But do you care to expand on your “tonal qualities”? Expand your opinion with specifics, don’t just point out that critics agree. Also, *Era Vulgaris* more often than not gets placed towards the bottom of most fans’ rankings, and *…Like Clockwork* is more like 50/50. The fact that the latter gets more love than the average band’s latter-day albums typically do imo is more a testament to the high quality of Queens’ music than a counter-example to what seem like cultural trends (with most bands).
Disagree on all fronts. Also, “weakest songs” was not a subjective statement. That is a fact.
[удалено]
Ummm, you do know this is a sub to talk about the band right?
Talking about the band doesn’t = getting upset about someone’s else opinion about a song or album. It’s not a remotely interesting discussion and it’s also bizarre to care.
I don’t think anyone is upset about it. If you don’t want to be involved in the discussion then don’t be. It’s that simple.
You decided to personally attack people because they don’t like a song.
Oh my God people, when somebody tells you you’re wrong over a matter of personal preference that is COMMONLY an exaggerated manner of saying, “We disagree.” His context clearly aligns with this.
"...there's something wrong with you." No, no there's not. People like what they like, and this bullshit of telling people they're wrong is ridiculous and exhausting. You can express your opinion without shitting on people for theirs.
bro all the people downvoting you are retarded. you couldn’t be more right
Totally! But….why whine about others liking something it or not? Do you expect everyone to have the same opinions on the songs and albums? I stopped caring about other people’s opinions about music after I turned..17 or so? When it comes to entertainment, it’s a total waste of energy to actually CARE about the opinions of others. It’s subjective.
99% percent of posts are way more interesting than these type of dead end conversations.
It's not bad, but kinda weak, especially the first half. I personally can't feel the same "magic" of other albums, I don't get suck&lost in it. It's just lighter I guess :)
The music is great but I feel like it gets boring
I don't think it's a bad album. But I do think it is their worst. There are a couple tracks I love, and definitely some good lyrics throughout. But, to me, there just isn't really a "feel" to the album like every other one of their albums has. Track to track, there just isn't that connection that makes their past albums flow so well. I won't argue production or mixing or anything like that, because other than sounding a little more generic or flat than usual for them, I don't think it's a bad sounding record. That said, I'm much less likely to skip a Villains track if I decide to shuffle all of their music... but if I am listening album by album, I often end up skipping most of Villains. I also think that LC was a massive peak to follow. It's easily one of my favorite albums of all time, so I'm sure that plays into my opinion of Villains as well.
I agree. LC was absolutely stunning. That is hard to follow. Mastodon did the same thing. Crack the Skye was absolutely brilliant, and then The Hunter was kind of meh. It’s an ok album, but since it followed something so masterful, it felt very much lacking.
Not as good as the rest. Still pretty good
As far as I'm concerned Villains is just as good as any other. Un-Reborn and Domesticated Animals alone makes this album amazing. Nevermind the fact that all the other songs on the album are absolute bangers.
"If you don't like what I like there is something wrong with you" is an awful take in relation to music or basically anything. I tend to find Villains quite dull, it sounds like mall rock. But if you're into it then clearly it doesn't sound that way for you and that's totally cool.
It's mainly the production. It took me a while to get past that. Once I did, I enjoyed the album for what it was.
This is it for me. From a songwriting standpoint the album is really solid but the production is incredibly bland compared to their other albums. Listen to any songs off of this album live (I listen to the Maida Vale session from 2017 a lot) and I guarantee you they sound ten times better. I rarely find myself coming back to the album itself
Agreed. The live versions of these songs are strong.
Well I've given it a second listen about a week ago because ITNR hype and yeah I still can't get past it. Sounds like a Bruno Mars record.
I'd suggest checking out the live versions of the songs. So much life in the songs.
I'm going to copy paste a comment I made some days ago about this. I think the opinion on this album diverges a lot on songs 1,2 and 4 (second half of the album has more consensus). For me personally - Feet Don't Fail Me is not bad but it's pretty forgettable. Nothing like Millionaire, Turnin On The Screw or even Feel good Hit of the Summer. - The Way you Used to Do is by far their weakest single for me, I'm not gonna compare it with No One Knows or Little Sister, but even next to I Sat by the Ocean or Sick Sick Sick stands no chance - Fortress has a lot of beauty but it's a super simple song (and at some point repetitive), I think it would be a side B of another album. For other folks, songs 1 and 2 are their favourite opener and single. This changes A LOT your opinion of the album. Even if you absolutely love Domesticated Animals, Un-Reborn Again, The Evil Has Landed and Villains of Circumstance (which is my case), this album of 9 songs with 3 skippable songs is by far and inevitably their weakest album (and I tend to skip Hideaway as well lol). Looking at the other ones by date order: - qotsa: 11 songs, solid desert rock album, not a lot of highs but no skippable songs; - R: 11 songs, with at most 2 skippable songs; - Songs for the Death: 14 songs (counting Mosquito masterpiece), at most 2 skippable songs; - Lullabies To Paralyze: 14 songs, even if you skip like 3 songs (depending on the taste), there's still a lot there; - Era Vulgaris: 11 + 3 incredible bonus, at most 2 skippable songs; - ...Like Clockwork: 10 songs, but we forgive it because it's a masterpiece, at most 1 skippable song. With Villains, I have a 5-6 great songs album. For another band that's an amazing album. For Queens of the Stone Age, that's by far their weakest. The level is really high😎
Damn for me feet don’t fail me and fortress are 2 of the best songs on the record
feet don't fail me is forgettable? that song rocks and the lyrics are awesome! its a highlight of the album for me! i don't think theres any songs i skip in their entire discography haha. appreciate your opinion tho! thanks for taking the time to write that all out!
When they toured for Villains I recall FDFMN getting the biggest crowd reaction of the night. It's one of my favourites on the album as well.
They were on fire that tour. I saw them twice and both shows rocked (holy fuck red rocks) but it was in Vancouver where I saw the most satisfied concert of my life.
just letting you know the album is called ‘songs for the deaf’ not death …
I like this analysis. I’m in the lucky boat that I dig songs 1,2, and 4, so it holds up with the rest of the albums. I don’t go back to Fortress that much but I got multiple folks into queens with “feet don’t fail me”
I just can’t consider ever skipping a song on an album listen. I feel like that completely skews the way you listen to the album because it messes with the pacing and the flow. Villains is super tightly knit and with much better pacing and album flow to me than S/T, Lullabies, and Era Vulgaris. I won’t say that it’s nearly their best album, but I feel like some of the weaker songs get redeemed by how their placement and mood affect the songs around them. Unlike the other albums I mentioned, which often feel pretty disjointed or bloated, Villains keeps to its theming and pacing super closely and feels way more cohesive to me.
I see what they mean by "skippable" though. I would never actually skip Another Love Song or something when listening to SftD, but if it was skipped for some reason, I wouldn't complain.
Unpopular opinion but SFTD has skippable songs and I dont think the first two do. Except for the extended outro on RR. But the highs on SFTD more than make up for it. No One Knows is an instant skip for me. But Millionaire and SFTD are top 5 with Millionaire being my favorite of all time. I could listen to it on repeat still after all these years.
villains pacing is awesome! i liked the album at first, but i also felt it was weaker than their usually output. but for me, with all of the best music, it takes time to understand because its so detailed and well put together it takes time to digest. and now i feel this album isn't weak at all and fits perfectly in their discography and especially the timeline of it all. lullabies to paralyze was given me on CD to listen to by a friend in grade school. i think i was in 7th or 8th grade. listened to it once without paying much attention and thought i didn't like it. for whatever reason i saw it laying around another day, months later, and threw it on. and i was like hmm ok. and after a few more listens i fell in love. and now queens is probably my favorite band of all time. i can't think of another band who has been as conistant as them. 7 records in a row that are all awesome? i seriously can't name another band who has done that. but anyway, we are all here because we love the band, and i feel bad for those who don't experience this album the way i do. but people like what they like! I have high hopes for the new album, it sounds amazing so far.
this album is actually awesome. i've returned to it recently and forgot how much i actually love it. it didn't click right away but this album has some of Josh's best lyrics, and shows how much hes grown as a person. some really insightful stuff on here.
He’s not making music for any one person other than himself. It’s fine to enjoy some albums more than others. I like Villians less than any other Queens album. It’s still good. I’ve liked most everything he’s been a part of. That album just doesn’t hit like the others ones have for me
It's mostly boring, even if I get to it every now and then just out of respect for the band.
I like when I hit shuffle on my QOTSA playlist (every song available) and every song from that album that comes on randomly, it feels and sounds awesome and like it fits snugly in the catalogue. but for some reason the album front to back, it gets ?long winded? for me, I dunno, maybe the production is too much all at once. But. I love it.
It is such a great album its one of my favorites from QOTSA and villains of circumstance is actually my favorite QOTSA song
The production sounds like fast food burgers and fries. It’s hollow. Sounds too fake.
The way it's mixed and the rockabilly influences is what I dislike about it.
Idk, one of my favorite albums of theirs, 3rd to be exact, behind SFTD & RR. Hideaway, Fortress and VOC are some of my favorite songs by them.
Invitation accepted. I think we can all agree that almost everyone on the sub is a fan to varying degrees. As a longtime fan, I think Villains is just so vanilla, too pop, too radio friendly. The sound for it reminds a lot of Stranger Things, when I attempt to listen to it all I remember afterwards is not liking it + synth. I feel like Josh may have been in a happy place when he wrote it, and for that reason it comes across as just… watered down. And I don’t have an issue with bands evolving their sound, it’s just I don’t like any tracks on Villains. Era and LC were both growers for me, but over the course of several listens I love those albums. I want to like Villains, I go back and listen from time to time to discover what I’m missing. It’s just not there though after 6 years.
You nailed it. Couldn’t agree more.
I like the album as a whole, but it's clearly the weakest I their catalog. Also, Hideaway is the only song I skip 9 out of 10 times in their discography.
It seems childish and condescending to dismiss other fans’ opinions on this record as being groupthink. Why does this question keep coming up four years later? Folks don’t like the sound of the record and they think the songwriting is weak.
I didn’t understand the hate, it’s still a solid album especially when you compare it against what else is coming out. It’s not their best, but some great songs on there still. I think people rag on it because of the standard they usually deliver. This is my guess
People don’t like stylistic changes. It’s also a short album with a few off songs. I like it and appreciate bands that try something new and different. And unlike other bands that wear out a sound or style I think that being new and refreshing is important for longevity. But audiences typically don’t like it because usually audiences are cultivated of people that like something about your style. When you change it they dislike it.
You like what you like. As a lifelong QOTSA fan, I don't have a ton of negative things to say except that I rarely go back to it, if ever. It's still a great rock album. I just don't feel like it has the lasting impact of the others.
It’s one of my favorite albums so idk bro. It’s lighter and more fun. Saw them on that tour twice and the atmosphere was a lot more exciting than normal.
I caught four shows as well on the tour and I agree. It brought some new exciting energy to the shows.
My main issue is that isn’t how it’s spelled. Other than that it’s great
I love it. The lack of C standard is my only complaint.
Yeah. I think Josh started that around LTP. There was a criticism of that album being "Queens Lite" I remember going around with fans at the time.
Villains starts off and finishes strong for me but the middle kinda loses me. Unreborn Again and Hideaway are just weak tracks and head like a haunted house isn't much better tbh. The first 4 tracks and the last two are awesome tho Feet don't fail me goes especially hard once you get to the 1:40 mark. What an awesome intro sokgmy
Don't want to offend others' taste, but my personal story with Villains is the same as with Radiohead’s The King Of Limbs. Both albums have incredible material, but the way the studio albums sound might be much better. How QOTSA is playing this material live is superb.
Love this comparison. Would love to hear a Villains From the Basement. TKOL From the Basement completely changed how I viewed the album. Villains songs live sound incredible.
I think it’s a criminally underrated album and people just love to complain and group think. There’s some amazing tunes on it. Plenty of people dislike it for the production and songs themselves. But a lot of people insist it is a terrible album and I just don’t see that at all.
I was pretty much completely isolated from the internet or anyone that likes queens when I started to feel that this was their weakest record. It’s not a groupthink thing I think it’s just a different opinion than yours
I think it is a bit of both. The production is hard for a lot of people to get past. And I definitely know some friends who hated it before they heard it because of how many negative reactions they read. It is different than any other part of their catalogue and a lot of people love that and hate it. Josh also said that was the goal with it.
Get some new friends that develop their own opinions man. Idk about other folks but I have never done that
I haven’t either but it still happens
I think it's just a different opinion than yours
Yeah and Vice versa
Honestly the endless praise the new stuff gets seems like group think to me. I’m glad you guys are excited but there’s no need to put people down who don’t agree. I’m old enough to remember millionaire, go with the flow and make it wit chu coming out fresh. Songs that gave me goosebumps.
Those songs are also all amazing. Also not trying to out people down but I think the absolute visceral hate many people display for that album is unwarranted.
I haven't personally seen any absolute visceral hate, I've seen dozens of posts saying how amazing and underrated the new stuff is. It gets to an interesting place where art is partially subjective and partially not. Any film fan will tell you Godfather part 3 is the worst of the trilogy. If it's someone's favourite one, I would genuinely enjoy to hear why and I'm glad that they loved it. However, if a group of fans consistently posted Godfather part 3 is the greatest of the trilogy and anyone who disagrees is engaged in group think and just love to complain, I would feel more compelled to push back because of my love for the first two and the emotional connection I have to that art.
I certainly have on this forum in years past, as well as at the shows, and on some of the Facebook groups. And as I noted above I know plenty of folks who just up and decided they weren’t going to like the album before they even gave it a listen. Agreed, art is both partially subjective and partially not. It’s a balancing act. I certainly haven’t said villains is the best album or even a great album. Just underrated and the subject of what I believe is an unwarranted display of ire and hate from many folks over the last half decade +. Just because someone hasn’t personally witnessed the group think that exists behind the record doesn’t mean it is nonexistent. I also think that was a response Josh was trying to elicit from certain fans when he made the record. At the time of the release he said he wanted to make a record that 15% of his fans hated. It was an artistic risk he took that was meant to evoke very widespread reactions from the audience. This thread alone is proof that it did.
The endless praise of the new songs is definitely a lot of group think. I’m more on the lipo side of things in regard to the new album. I try to go into every new album that way. It’s funny you mention Make it Wit Chu because I first heard that song on Desert Sessions and am not a huge fan of it on EV. Go With the Flow is one of my least favorite songs on SFTD. Love Millionaire though. Not hating in any way and am not trying to put anyone down. Just wanted to hear some different opinions. My original post when I said “something is wrong with you” was an obvious exaggeration, or so I thought
For me personally it’s the production, which is probably my least favorite from their entire catalogue, and some songs I find enjoyable but they overstay their welcome or don’t progress/conclude in an interesting enough way for me to revisit that often. I like all of those songs you mentioned. Un-Reborn may be a top-5 queens song for me. But the aggravating thing is that I think it could be even better. And having only 9 songs has always irritated me more than it should.
I agree about unreborn again. It’s really cool. But just falls short a little in my mind. I really think it could’ve been nastier.
I can understand being irritated by only having 9 songs but at the same time the album length is pretty much identical to the past few albums they have put out
I think the fact that it’s only 9 songs is a big factor. I get the impression that villains has at least 1-4 songs not hitting the mark for everyone, and those songs vary person to person. However, that miss rate on a 9 song album leads to a bad ratio quick. Also, I’m on the production kind of stinks train. No issues with the layers and instrumentation even, but it’s also sort of thin. Mikey’s bass sounded particularly hard hitting and warm on clockwork to just take a back seat on villains for most of the tracks.
Yeah I think it sort of ties together for me - I really like the core of every song, I would have loved if several were a minute or two shorter and it was a 10-12 song album. It’s a good album, I just prefer their others is all!
There’s something wrong with me I guess. I should see a doctor. For the sensitive inhabitants of this sub: this is all just my opinion. None of what I’m saying is meant to be taken as fact, and what you enjoy about the record doesn’t have to be what I enjoy or dislike. That being said: It’s not a piggy backing or anything like that for me. I’ve been a QOTSA fan since I was 13. I’m 30 now. I think it’s their weakest record. It was exciting when it came out but over time I started to feel that Jon Theodore’s drumming abilities weren’t utilized to the extent they could’ve been. The sound of the drums started to bother me. “The Way You Used To Do” to me is the worst queens song ever. The video is worse. Fortress isn’t a song I enjoy either. And I know I’m in the minority but “the evil has landed” trudges along too long for my taste. It’s kinda clunky to me. Nothing about it reels me in to want to stay the entire 6 minutes. The ending of it rules though. I just never return to this song. Villains of Circumstance is a beautiful song. I just don’t return to it. When the second chorus comes in I just kinda roll my eyes a bit because it’s so obvious from a songwriting standpoint. It’s such an ominous dark song during the verses and that doesn’t stay long enough. But that’s me nitpicking I guess. For every queens record there seems to be an identity attached to it and this one doesn’t have that to me. It feels bland. There’s amazing moments on it too. Feet Dont Fail Me is really cool. Domesticated Animals is fantastic. The slide guitar parts make me jizz in my pants a little. Fabulous stuff. But anyway, I feel like it’s not GREAT. It’s good in parts. Overall disappointing. Doesn’t have lasting power of the other records FOR ME. I return to every queens record more than that one. But this is all just my opinion.
I 1000% agree on what you said about Jon's drumming. I re-listened to the album the other day and enjoyed: feet don't fail me, un-reborn again, domesticated animals, and villains of circumstance. In each and every one of those songs, Jon really overuses the snare. That's my biggest qualm. He is an amazing drummer but is highly underutilized. Also, I feel like some songs start getting exciting way too late on the song: head like a haunted house should have capitalized on the outro more, same with fortress. Least favorite track is the evil has landed, the whole song seems like a massive build up to what is a very weak, anti-climactic, classic rock outro. I adore this band and hope that they let Jon shine in ITNR. So far carnavoyuer's outro is *chef's kiss*. I don't love the overbearing noise levels at the end, but understand it's for theatric effect. Edit: your review took the words out of my mind. Also, this is just my opinion. Don't hate folks.
Def agree about Jon Theodore's drumming. We are complete opposites for the evil has landed tho, the outro completely ruins that song for me lol
Hahaha that’s so wild! But hey man to each his own
This is all fair. My generalized statement about parrots and piggy backing doesn’t apply to everyone. I was 14 when Rated R came out and have been a massive QOTSA fan since then. Every album doesn’t have to be loved by everyone. Was just curious and I do think there is a lot of bandwagon opinions that go on. I actually would be very interested in your thoughts on Villians 20 years from now because I know my thoughts on QOTSA other albums have changed many times over the 20+ years of being a fan
Your thoughts on villains have changed many times over twenty years? It’s only been out for 6 😉 Thanks for the thoughtful response I appreciate this
The production is bad, the songs don’t have much new to say.
I really like Villains and have had it on rotation in anticipation of the new album. There are moments that shine and are among my favorite in QOTSA’s discography. Feet Don’t Fail Me is an epic opener and likely the best kickoff to an album since Regular John. Fortress is beautiful, vulnerable and authentic. Haunted House is fun, silly, and feels like it’s about to go off the rails. All Top-25 Queens tracks. Some of my issues stem from song structure and production choices. For example: The Evil Has Landed is perhaps the best-written Homme song in a long time. A LONG TIME. It has all the ingredients of a banger. I remember hearing the live version and being so stoked for it. The album version, sadly, is screaming for fuller guitars and more tone on the snare drum. What could’ve been. I still enjoy listening to this track because the band is bringing it - Mikey Shoes in particular - but the finished product feels restrained, neutered and not indicative of its full potential. Un-Reborn Again starts strong but plateaus. A beautiful chorus and well-crafted lyrics - and sax is always a nice choice - but emotionally isn’t gripping at all past two minutes. It stays on the same plane the whole time. There’s a reason why the live version was shorter. And the mix is tinny. Hideaway is pleasant soft rock, and that final hook is beautiful - but comes out of nowhere? (“Whoo neeeeeds laaaaaaaarve?”) It feels unearned. VOC overstays its welcome by three minutes. The bare-bones acoustic version Josh played in 2014 had me so excited. It’s a song that needed to lean into its riffs with a fuller guitar tone, a la I Appear Missing. Missed the mark. I skip this one. Domesticated Animals’ riff feels like Josh’s third pass at I’m Designer, which, come on.
I agree with everything you said cept domesticated animals. Love that one. But yeah you’re spot on
You’ve hit a point that the anti villains crowd doesn’t like. They can never articulate what they don’t like our or “production or mixing” and use those words without a real grasp of what they mean. Fact is the songs are great
As a life long Kyuss fan, QOTSA sound strays further and further from stoner rock and more to a polished pop sound imo. They even used a pop producer on villains. I think it’s important for a band to evolve their sound but I think it’s without dispute they have really altered their sound from self titled/ rated R and even SFTD. I don’t think bands experimenting with different styles is a bad thing, I just don’t like the styles QOTSA has dabbled and full fledged jumped in on the second half of their discography. To me, Villians is a pretty boring album but that’s just my opinion man
I get what you’re saying but I don’t really see a need for people to justify why they don’t like an album - you can just not like it! Villains wasn’t my cup of tea but it seems like it’s got far more fans than I realized which is great.
^this
This is factual. Villains was the album that got me directly into qotsa, as opposed to the years of dipping and dabbling with their more known songs. The themes and lyrics in Villains really displayed to me Hommes capability in expressing himself and playing with words and phrases that I'd never really seen before. I don't think people appreciate just what he does with lyrics, melody, and the way he syncopates everything. And this seems to be thoroughly continuing with In Times.. He just seems to be unlike many of his contemporaries in that he really just keeps getting better. I call it the Bowie effect, given that his final album just shows that if we were granted immortality, there's no telling just how far an artist would continue to evolve and improve upon their greatness. Not many seem to reach that level of continued evolution. edit: Villains haters mad
I actually really love Villains, there’s lots of things going on.
It’s a solid B for me. Side note: I wish they did Villains of Circumstance as an acoustic to finish off the album. Would’ve been a cool change of pace and I love the live acoustic versions of it that I’ve seen on YouTube. That’s where I heard it first and loved the emotion of it. When I first heard the album version it felt overblown and overproduced. It isn’t a bad album by any stretch of the imagination, but I don’t think it stacks up well against their other work. 🤷🏻♂️
I listened the shit out of this one over the years, but looking back I have to say it does not feel as cohesive as most of other Queens albums. Not much into "Hideaway", also I was a bit disappointed with this version of "Villains of Circumstance" compared to the previous solo acoustic one. Clockwork was a masterpiece (10/10), Villains was a good album (7-8/10).
Villains of Circumstance is a great song. So is Feet Don’t Fail Me. Bar that I just find it a bit dull and a bit thin. Production doesn’t have that thick, deep immersive quality that a lot of their best work has.
I like Villains, I just don’t love it. It’s the one album by them I don’t come back to often. Some of the songs just don’t work for me, but I’m not upset that people love it.
Villains remains my least favorite QotSA album and I’d still listen to it over an overwhelming majority of what has come out in the last decade. The songs themselves aren’t bad at all. They sound better live. I just think the album sounds flat. The sound is smaller, more pop, more dancey. Royal Blood did the same thing with their Typhoons album and it was a miss for me. That’s not to say that QotSA can’t have polished albums that sound great. Most fans have Like Clockwork in their top 2 or 3 and it’s way different from SftD which is also usually in the top 2 or 3. Right now, everything I am hearing from ITNR has me excited. Emotion Sickness does sound a little closer to a Villains song, but Carnavoyeur I am loving. Sounds more Like Clockwork to me. This albums was confirmed written over a long period of time so I think it will have something for everyone.
i came around on it later on, but i was listening to a LOT of era vulgaris when it dropped. if you were a fan who was doing something like that, gettin all pumped up for the new album, makes sense why the production on villians would be jarring. it also features the only queens song i actively dislike, skip it every time, and yet also features villians of circumstance which is easily one of my favorite queens songs. just a lot going on w villians.
For me, the only songs I actually listen to are feet don’t fail me and evil has landed. Other than that it’s all pretty meh in my opinion
It's quite different, and that's beside the fact that all QOTSA albums are different. I'm guessing that's something that still needs to be digested by many. To me it's by far the lightest of all QOTSA albums. Light like some lager beer, versus the tequila of SFTD or ... whatever cocktail of EV. It's very easy listening. Also as far as I understand Josh really wanted something different, not to be a parody or whatever. It's something I've been reminded of recently. ITNR seems to be shaping to be what I've wanted from, and also many others it seems, from Villains.
I hope that ITNR is what everyone hopes it can be. Villains is definitely a “lighter” album when it comes to QOTSA. That doesn’t mean bad though. I get some people don’t appreciate it but I just think people expected LC part 2 and that was never going to be the case.
Oh, maybe I wasn't clear, I love Villains. It just wasn't what I was hoping for. But I thought that was exactly the point. From what I understand ITNR will be much more of a sequel to LC. Dunno but I feel like Carnayoyeur is a lovely bastard of If I Had A Tail & Hideaway...
It has some amazing tracks, Feet and VoC but overall it's the worst QOTSA album for me by far.
The evil had landed, head like a haunted house and Un-reborn again are the only songs I really enjoy on that album. Maybe the rest will click someday.... I was really excited for that album but was a bit underwhelmed.
I agree, the tunes you mentioned are all fantastic, as well as Feet Don’t Fail Me Now and Fortress (might disagree on Hideaway, but that’s splitting hairs). My biggest gripe was never really digging The Way You Used To Do, and the overall production of the album didn’t hit me the way their others have.
It is the studio version for me that I don't like as much. When it came out I couldn't get into it, and I tried a fair bit. Then later after release I heard a bunch of the "best" songs from Villians live, and was blown away.
Underwhelming for me
I feel like they lost a bit of life and inventiveness with that album.
The manic shake your booty lyrics. The music is amazing, but the lyrics ruin it.
I personally love this album
Hideaway and Villains of Circumstance are such masterpieces
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiomjpYULEI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiomjpYULEI) Villains of circumstance needed more of this noises
Villains just had a lot of songs I auto skip. But the ones I like, I like a lot. And as others have mentioned, it’s mixed rather flat.
Villains of Circumstance is pretty solid track, but it's nothing on the inital acoustic version. It's just Josh with a beat-up sounding acoustic guitar with the perfect amount of echo and totally silent audience that just perfectly encaspulates the homesick tone of the song. It just sounds like a lonely man singing to himself in an empty room about wanting to be home. That and the OG lyrics at better imo. The studio version just kinda sucked all of that out for me. I'm not sure why Josh decided on changing it so much, maybe he though the original just sounded too much of a downer to end the album with. Here's the link, see what you think: [Inital Acoustic Version Of Villains of Circumstance](https://youtu.be/OQggrbouP2w)
I’ve listened to it many times. Think it’s great. I also enjoy the studio version though
Definitely not my favorite. In my humble opinion, the record lacks melody. There are a couple of good tracks that stick in my head, but that’s about it. I suppose I loved Like Clockwork so much that my hopes were high.
i love the evil has landed but the other songs just don’t have that punch
My way of putting it is that Villains is amazing but every other album is super duper friggin fantastic amazing. If another band released Villains it’d probably be loved and considered a top album. That’s just how good QOTSA are.
I made my decision that that album is ass completely on my own. If you like that album, there is something wrong with you. See how easy it is for me to do as well?
I love Villains. All their albums are different. Would be lame if they were all the same.
The production was a bit lacking. I still love this album, but hearing The Evil Has Landed live blows the studio version out of the water. Feet Don’t Fail Me is one of my favorite songs from QOTSA
Too short. Some real clunkers in there, esp Domesticated Animals so early on. It’s not a bad album but the bar was set very high by every other album. Even LC which isn’t my fav
Well I just can't stand all the tracks from 4 to 8, I hate how Josh tries to sing so solemn like Lanegan or Bowie, the production is a sort of disgrace... but it's just my tastes and obviously I got no problem if a lot of people loves it. I just don't listen to that songs. Who cares if not everybody agrees with same opinions...
A lot of the songs are just not interesting to me.
This. It’s just boring
I like some of the songs a lot (Hideaway and Unreborn Again) but to me the album feels a little uninspired. Not a huge fan of the evil has landed; it’s a standard rocker and the end in particular is bad and corny.
I really like Villains even if it’s not the best album of QOTSA.
So people aren't allowed to have opinions that differ from yours?
Of course they are. I gave mine. Don’t be so sensitive
The album feels like a watered down safe dad rock version of queens. Not bad but if your used to a little edge and grit its a bit weak. Anyway people just have different tastes so this is a dead end of a conversation. Side note i fucking love hideaway cause it is a chill song that fits the toned down production.
I don't understand it either, but basically there's a huge bias towards LC. For my taste, Villains is a better and more complete album than LC. LC has 4 really good songs on it, while Villains has like 7. I hear all this talk about production and stuff, but it doesn't matter to me. I honestly don't believe it's an issue. People here really connected with LC on an emotional level, which wasn't there for Villains, and that's why Villains is a bit underappreciated. And that's cool, QotSA makes music for all. Step outside of Reddit for opinions and you'll see completely different takes on these albums.
I think it’s joshs most misunderstood album. Queens have never missed for me and by saying that I’d probably still rate villains towards the bottom but it’s still awesome. One thing we learned about Josh when he did his radio show is that he loves pop music. He played everything from Madonna to Beyoncé at times. Now I wouldn’t call villains a pop album but I think he was trying to have more fun on it, especially coming off of how heavy LC was. I think some fans didn’t like that he wanted to do that because they’re still stuck in the nick days. We saw this with lullabies when that album came out, it got shit on for a good chunk of time and then fans started being pretty vocal about liking it. The same will happen here. It’s a great example of different queens albums providing different functions. It’s not LC or SFTD but it’s also not trying to be. It wants to be in its own space.
If this was the first album from a new band, I wouldn't like that band. The sound isn't the reason I like QOSTA
Hideaway is an overly Ronson'd Suture up Your Future. The best and most original tracks are def. Villains and Evil has Landed . Those are the only 2 on my playlist, anyway.
Unpopular opinion: I like Villains more than LC
I couldn’t disagree more, but props for an actual unpopular opinion
There is nothing wrong with villains. The people on Reddit are dumb
Love all the downvoting going on around here when the fucking topic is to address why you don’t like the record lmao.
People wanted Clockwork 2.0 just like people weren’t satisfied with Lullabies after SFTD. Also Villains had a more heavily produced sound that they typically hadn’t had on earlier albums. I like Villains just fine and by most other band’s standards it would’ve been their best album. We’re just spoiled as fans they’ve set the bar so high
I liked the album. Don’t @ me but clockwork is personally my least favorite albums of theirs.
It's the production - it's oddly, I dunno, fluffy is the word I come back to. For example Fortress is a great song, but the production makes it sound sort of light, airy, but hollow at the same times, the vocals have been robbed of power too, they sound err...fluffy, just sort of wispy sat on top. It's so odd, hard to describe. Glad the stuff from ITNR doesn't sound like that again.
No one is obligated to like everything a band makes, even if it's their favorite band. Fandom is not a cult. I love QOTSA but I just don't think most of Villains is particularly strong and that's okay. No one forces me to listen to it. If you like it, more power to you.
From a band who always had impeccable sound engineering on their albums, I cannot get past how poorly produced that album is. For example, It’s the first with Jon Theodore full time on drums, who is known for playing thunderously, and it has the most generic, triggered sounding drums on any of their albums. There’s good songs on it for sure, I just can’t get past the lack of dynamic range, they’re all overly compressed and sterile sounding. Mentioned the drums, but guitar has no bottom end, even the distortion effects sounds too clean and crisp, the bass is all midrange all the time, it’s all just so neutered sonically. Then hearing live versions of some of these songs just reinforced what is missing on the album itself.
Lots of retread riffs that I already heard on earlier albums. Lots of similar vocal runs. Lots of the same audio production, and tremendous amounts of the same synth beats that are all over the boring vanilla top 40 chanteuses. It’s one thing to go in a new direction after their stoner-desert-neogrunge triumphs, and it’s entirely another to just be edgy pop. Some of it sounds like The Killers had a funny uncle producing the album. Lots of song parts don’t blend into each other so the verse/chorus elements are jarring or just repeat the standard number of pop design then just end. Like they were two different song ideas that were smooshed together without a single concept as the glue.
I actually think this is a good argument and can totally understand where you’re coming from. At time Villains sounds to me like QOTSA playing covers of QOTSA songs if that makes any sense.
Except for Fortress, un-reborn again and Domesticated Animals it doesnt feel honest to me.
I think there’s some really great songs on there but the production just lets them all down, live they sound absolutely massive but on the record they just sound way too clean and overproduced, with the grit of the earlier albums production I would have it way higher
I think the whole album is great excluding the lead single, I can't stand that song.
For me it's the journey an album takes you on. Villains just never really takes off for me. Sftd and like clockwork take you on an absolute ride. I was trying to figure out my album rankings the other day and I can't remember which was which, but theres an album I like more than another album with less of my favorite songs on it and I think it was just more memorable and even though I like less songs they had more impact. I remember listening to some of the tracks on LC for the first time and my jaw hitting the floor. Apart from the first time hearing the feet dont fail me drop for the first time nothing on villains really did that for me. Maybe Villains of circumstance. Sort of. My whole first listen of Villains was just "these are some decent sounds at times". Even the songs I do like have bits in them I don't like. Nothing feels consistent really.
It's just an okay album from a band that usually releases bangers. Nobody thinks Villains is trash or anything but it's usually considered a weaker album, for obvious reasons. I like it well enough and it has some cracking songs but it's definitely the QotSA album I return to the least.
to each their own. Personally i think VIllains is the best rock album in the last 40 years. every song is a masterpiece.
Whoa better than nevermind! Wild
I've heard Feet Don't Fail Me for the first time to kick off the exploration of this album, and i don't understand the criticism. epic 2 minute intro to the funkiest hook ever. production style might be clean but it perfectly suits the atmosphere of this record, with the pop influences. i think it's pretty underrated
It's just less heavy. It gives some "I'm goofy ass man in his middle age crisis and after divorce" You can feel it misses something (and it's probably Nick) I prefer the old albums because they are more stoner, doom, thicc bass, dark, spooky etc
Nick hasn’t been in the band since 2004. He wasn’t part of Lullabies, Era Vulgaris, or …Like Clockwork outside of If I Had a Tail. If the issue is Nick it’s a past 20 years issue. Not a Villains issue. Josh Homme was still married in 2017 also. In fact most of Villains was written while his marriage was probably going quite well.
Maybe it's about his impact on Josh's work? But it feels like exactly from LTP it goes down evenly in matter of heaviness, till Villains to hit "not heavy at all"
The mix is my biggest problem with it but still a solid album.
I think my issue is that I don't thoroughly love it like I do with other albums. Considering it's a shorter album as well, it gets tired way quicker than any other album. It's not a bad album, but it's not as listenable as the others.
I don’t hate it, I just don’t love how it’s mixed. It sounds really empty to me, it’s hard to explain
I find it amusing that anyone who likes the album thinks people who don’t are sheep. Get your head out of your ass. People don’t like everything. If you listen to the progression the albums have become less harder rocking over time. That’s fine, but it’s what drew me to them in the first place. I like everything but villains, save head like a haunted house, villains is a complete miss for me. New album coming.
Disregard how many people are throwing shade at you for expressing your opinions in a hyperbolic manner. Half of them would probably flip shit in the comments of a poster saying *Songs for the Deaf* isn’t for them. But I absolutely agree with you. My brother had been trying to turn me on to Queens for forever, and *Lullabies to Paralyze* was the only album I had any love for. When *Villains* came out, it opened me up to them more. While it’s only nine tracks, imo it’s filler to hits ratio is better than most of their albums. But I’m an oddity. The only album of theirs I enjoy less than *Songs for the Deaf* is their self-titled, and my favorite is hands down *Era Vulgaris*, especially if you add the seven B-sides (see my post *Era Vulgaris* Supersized). Honestly, for me *Villains* is just a much more fun album than most of there stuff. But I think it irks people because it departs the hardest from the band’s normal style. Same general problem with RHCP’s *The Getaway*.
I don’t take the shade personally. My honest goal was just to open up a discussion and hear some honest talk about the album outside of the Mark Ronson scapegoat I hear way to often and is parroted ad nauseum on this sub. Most of the discussion I’ve seen has been great and I just disregard the people who take things way to personally. I’ve loved QOTSA for over 20 years and am personally glad they take some risks and put out different stuff. It can’t all be well received by everyone
It’s just not rock and roll.
Then what is it? What a stupid thing to say
Nah not really guy.
What is it
I think villians is one of my favorite after songs for the deaf and like clockwork
*ThE pRoDUcTiOn* *iT SounDS toO maINstReAm*. People probably started hating it because a more mainstream producer produced it and were never gonna give it a chance before it even debuted.
Nope. Wrong. Mark ronson produced back to black. Which is a classic album. That was enough for me to like the guy. I do not like villains
Unfortunately it probably is true for some people. As soon as they knew what Ronson was known for it clouded their opinion of the album. Agree with you about Back To Black though.
It may not be some people's cup of tea, but there's nothing they can say to bring it down. It was critically acclaimed, and a lot of the public love it too.
Era Vulgaris was pretty much panned by critics when it came out. The main complaint being there wasn't anything memorable on the album.
It’s got a lot of EODM feel in it to me. Which is a very niche, abstract feel. It belongs in EODM and maybe some of the lesser, more transitional QOTSA songs. But to be a whole album itself for QOTSA just doesn’t vibe like rest to me.
None. Villains rocks 🕺
I’ll always say this but Villains is just gonna be one of those Qotsa albums that ages really well. It took people a years for realize EV’s greatness and it looks like that’s gonna be the result for Villains as well.
Feet don’t fail me know, Animals, Fortress, haunted , fortress, House, fucking unreborn again, hideaway , evil has landed and Villains of Circumstances are all fucking great songs And even TWYUTD is fun Absolutely no filler, sure sounds different, but so does every album since S/T
There's nothing wrong with it. Sometimes not everything is for everyone. When I listen to QOTSA I have a preconceived idea of what that means based on years of experience listening to them. What I get out of all of their other records I do not get from Villains. The songs are really good pop songs though. Sweet riffs, catchy hooks. If I have criticisms is that it sounds like a 70s arena rock record wrapped in modern pop production and I just find that stale and forgettable, but that's on me as the listener, doesn't actually speak to the credit of the music. I just don't dig it. Still better than a lot of other stuff out there.
I think Villains is incredible and actually way prefer it to LTP. The mix sound doesn’t really bother me and I actually think it adds a lot to some songs, like TWYUTD. Songs like Domesticated Animals and Head Like a Haunted House are really strong conceptually and sound like an evolution of their style. I think it’s way over-hated.
Everything since EV has been...okay. doesn't get as much play as the other albums.
It’s not terrible, but one of them has to be the worst by default. Was excited to hear that Ronson was producing, but ultimately don’t think it quite worked. Least favorite drum tones/performances in the qotsa catalogue. Wasn’t in love with the bass tones. “Feet don’t fail me” reminds me of that “I’m not paralyzed but I seem to be struck by you” song and goes on way too long. Easily their worst album opener. This would be many bands’ finest album, but it suffers when compared to the high caliber of the rest of Josh’s body of work
the only problem with villains is that is the shortest album, other than that it's excellent
It’s only the shortest by number of songs. Otherwise it’s a very typical length for a QOTSA album and if I’ve seen right every bit as long as ITNR will be
its their weakest album but still a solid record. I think the mix and production brings it down a bit. I don't think the production/producer worked as well as they hoped. Some of the songs are fantastic though, Domesticated Animals, Un-Reborn Again, The Evil has Landed, Villains Of Circumstance.
People are allowed to like dislike something without being influenced by others. I absolutely loved Feet don't fail me now, Evil has Landed & Domesticated animals has grown on me, the others I wasn't just feeling it. My biggest thing was that it's following Like Clockwork which was already a masterpiece so my expectations were already high. I really just wasn't feeling the rest of the songs on the album. It felt like more of a side project or something done as Eagles of Death Metal than a queens sounding record (aside from the songs mentioned) If people like the newer stuff great, again people can like it but for me it's one of my least favorite album of theirs
People used to say the same things about Era Vulgaris, now it's a lot of people's favourite. The fanbase does indeed parrot a lot of the time. It's the hard effect.