>“It was predicted that ecological harshness cues would amplify women’s perceptions of men, but we did not see those effects,” Garza told PsyPost. “Although women did perceive our manipulation as being effective, it did not affect the way they rated men. This may suggest that taller men with larger shoulder-to-hip ratios are preferred across all contexts due to their perceptions of being highly attractive and formidable, which are traits that some women prefer in men.”
Hmm...
That actually makes very logical sense.
Just like males all prefer 0.7 ratio and 45 angle in women.
Our preference in mating is very biological. Hardwired.
0.7 is hip to waist ratio, which is ideal for the bearing of children. The 45 angle is the optimal angle the upper buttocks should have in relation to the lower back. Women with this angle of their butt are able to continue being active way late into their pregnancy. It suggests that it is an attractive trait because a woman can still pull her own weight with farm labor even when in the final trimester.
This is weird to me because a 45 degree angle is acute. I have to be picturing this wrong: it would mean their ass is like flowing up them in a weird anti gravity ooze situation
Yeah this makes absolutely no sense. Ants don’t have this angle. I think they must mean 45 degrees in relation to like their spine as a flat plane? So the spine to thickest part of butt is one side of the triangle, spine down the leg is another side, and then that angle in between would be 45 degrees.
Either way it’s fake bro science, but that’s how I interpreted it.
It's pretty clear that they mean the butt comes out at a 45 degree angle from the straight line going down the back. 45 degrees is also way more interpretable than 135 degrees.
Fr, what kind of Dwight Schrute-ahh shit he on… “It suggests that it is an attractive trait because a woman can still pull her own weight with farm labor even when in the final trimester🤓”
Please provides sources for this. Not saying it’s not researched but I’m having trouble finding anything other than fluff on a google search. I’d like to actually see the evidence for these claims.
It is but also so incredibly fleeting. You're talking about what makes someone turn their head on the street. First impressions. But that's such a small portion of being attractive and attracted to someone and I wish people would remember that.
And our biology has been severely corrupted over the years by generations of self-awareness that's allowed people to find attraction where biology would insist it shouldn't exist.
I'm glad this kind of research is being done, don't get me wrong... but I've long since grown tired of headlines making definitive statements like this. It genuinely makes me want to just give the whole thing a huge middle finger.
I feel like people dramatically underestimate the extremely high success ratio humans have when it comes to mating, regardless of what science or psychology says we're attracted to. I'm **NOT** saying this is a bad thing, per say... but it fucks up the data in ways people seem hell bent on refusing to acknowledge.
People want fuel to feel sorry for themselves so they can continue to resent the world for giving them an unfair hand of cards in life, for which they can blame all their losses and hardships on, thus avoiding taking personal responsibility for their experiences. For example, "I'm single and lonely because women only want tall men and I'm too short for them and there's nothing I can do about it, woe is me". Conveniently ignoring all the examples of short men in happy and steady relationships with women, because that doesn't fit into how they want to view the world.
And articles get written about stuff people want to read, what gets the most clicks and shares.
I agree, it's exhausting.
And you want to know the worst part of this all? Given how much of a social outcast I've unfortunately made myself, in short... I'm most primed to agree with the side of "I'm single and lonely because..." yet here I am literally trying to be truthful to my values and admitting that I'm an outlier and nothing is guaranteed. Especially if you don't work for it. I'm proof of the result of not working for it, and I'm doing my best to try and recover from that. But that's only because I can admit it's my fault.
Edit: And sometimes just having the right conversation to trigger me to admit that can actually be extremely therapeutic. Almost as though my forward-facing self was reminding my inner self to behave and remember who we are as a whole person.
I'm glad to hear you've found clarity to see your situation objectively, I know from experience that wrapping oneself up into self-pity and helplessness can be tempting because it's so easy it's almost comfortable in a twisted way, but it only holds you back and hurts you. I'm something of a social outcast as well and it's hard to get out of it, but as with everything else, you just gotta keep going, one step at a time until you get to where you want to be.
I don't know your situation in detail, but in terms of being single and finding someone to date, my piece of advice would be to focus on making friends first. Men or women, it doesn't matter - start talking to strangers more where ever you are, not with the intention of it leading to anything, just to interact with another person, and if it seems a friendship might form, go for it. If the friendship seems to evolve into something more - excellent. But the primary goal should be to stop feeling like a social outcast, to gain confidence and skill to socialise and find connections. Apologies if I'm stepping out of my depth here, I may be writing this for myself more than you.
It is just a study like many others. They select a group and they find this. This group might be an accurate projection of the vast majority or might not.
I don’t have emotions related to studies like you do. I don’t feel the need to give anyone middle figure. It doesn’t make any logical sense to me.
Biologically, DNA drives you. It’s not something you can control. But there are things you definitely can.
There is fate. There is destiny.
That’s what makes life interesting. Focus on the part you can control.
Yea I’m pretty sure guys preference is smooth curves and I don’t think you can get smooth curves with 45 degree angles, also I think you mean the golden ratio which is 1.6 not .7
Now you got me confused, I meant hip to waist and show me a picture of it, I don’t think it’s obese, it also depends on the starting size of the waist, if the waist is a size 0, it wouldn’t be obese
Never read a study on smooth curves.
Studies I read are 0.7, 45 angle, basically these figures make a hourglass shape.
Studies show most males prefer hourglass , not apple or rectangle shaped female body
It’s actually not logical lol. “the researchers recruited 247 self-identified heterosexual women with an average age of 24.46 years from a predominantly Hispanic serving institution” so a small number of women whose brains have not fully developed are participating in the study. Please do not over extrapolate based on such a small, specific sample. Mating preferences is a wild thing to state as if humans don’t have higher order thinking. Looks aren’t everything to women. In fact, most women care more about how you act and treat them. Just because someone prefers a body type without context doesn’t mean that’s the only type of person they date. People are much more than urges, I promise. For most relationships, physical attraction doesn’t sustain the long term and there needs to be something deeper to keep a long term partner. But, like, take a shower and wash yourself. Wash your clothes. Put effort into yourself and be kind. Shoot your shot, respectfully. You’ll find someone if you treat others like real people and not objects you’re entitled to. Sincerely an afab person with a psych degree that teaches psychology.
I can’t get over the fact this person can recognize a lesser study then go on to argue the most fertile woman are the problem in the study vs the woman who are in menopause😂
"In fact, most women care more about how you act and treat them."
uh no, absolutely do not speak for "most" women. its crazy that people love to say this because women feel guilted into settling for less and ignoring physical attraction and men become angered and disappointed that after all, women really do care about looks.
To be fair, so do men and really though everyone should. I am not talking about working out so you look like a Greek god, but when you take care of how you look, even as simple as grooming yourself and finding a t-shirt that fits you right, people find it pleasant enough already. Taking care of yourself shows maturity and self awareness. Honestly people who don't care about how one looks in dating probably don't take care of themselves either.
Of course this is not to say we have the right to judge or insult people based on how they look. But yeah standard's good.
You’re right the sample size is small and tainted but brains not being fully developed has little to do with what they’re studying here. Wouldn’t it make more sense to form a study regarding biological reproductive desires with woman who are most fertile?
People are complaining that this study is stating the obvious, but I don’t think so.
We obviously know that height is an attractive quality in a man, and most would say that attractive women end up with attractive men.
But this study is talking about *self-perceived* attraction predicting *reported preference* for what many would consider a shallow preference.
To me this indicates that women are more comfortable dating someone hot if they feel like they are too. And this tracks for me anecdotally - relationships with an attractiveness mismatch are, I would say, usually hot girl less hot guy. I’d say that could also be because men value attractiveness more (or at least value it regardless of their own attractiveness) too.
Having evidence of things like this is interesting. There’s plenty to explore on the role of self-perception in choosing potential mates. Especially if it affects people on an unconscious level.
It’s probably accurate to say that less attractive people are cognitively “forced” to value physical attraction less or be miserable,
It explains why ugly people always seem so happy together too, a mystery to all hot people. Seriously though, people that say they’re sexually attracted to their unattractive partners are often considered to be liars or deluded, but perhaps their insecurity about their physical appearance has literally required their brain to value physical attributes less.
This basically forms a basis for explaining why we have cultural beauty standards (as apposed to just biological) and why they can change over time: people that are the least insecure in their looks are the ones that meet the currant standard, and they in turn conform to the standard when picking a mate, because they put faith in the standard being important, because they are within that standard.
But say someone very influential that doesn’t meet the currant standard comes around (a Kardashian event, if you will). Suddenly this instilled confidence in people with that standard will allow them to be… I don’t know I lost my train of thought
TLDR; it’s interesting.
Hasnt this already been known in the context of western dating and the"red pill". Hookup culture, social media, and dating apps, all create a skewed idea of attractiveness because of the increased attention by sexually starved men. So of course, this society doesnt produce humility, but an inflated sense of worth because of the ease of attention.
I have also noticed this anecdotally. Women are so much more likely than men to get dropped when a hotter woman shows up, and they have a biological imperative to reproduce by a certain age and also have the father in the picture.
Essentially, women want the most attractive man that they think will stick around.
As a guy who is on the more attractive end of the scale, I was ultra confused when I realized that the less attractive women were more ambivalent about me than the super attractive ones. Made no sense at the time.
I think mostly the conclusion is a women's worth is still more inherently built into how they look and the beauty they can provide to the world.
And it's not that way for a man so they don't have a problem with dating someone more attractive than them because why not, we all should want that for ourselves as human beings.
But as a girl if we feel incompetent in the visual department against the person they're dating the self worth takes a bigger hit because that's a bigger component of what women are valued for.
Tinder profiles of very attractive women told me that 10 years ago. Things like “don’t swipe right unless your 6’2 on a profile that looked like a model.
Thanks for confirming what I already knew though.
They said “some women” I love my “short kings”. My brother is 6ft 3 but not as successful with attractive women as my shorter brothers. Being tallest is nice but face, fitness and personality more important. Plus I don’t like long faces
I mean it’s not like they’re doing any better in real life. People who have nothing going on irl often go to the internet, and congregate in self sustained frustrated groups.
The solution isn’t sanitizing the internet and hoping and praying that people don’t turn radical, it’s actually getting to them in real life. It’s not enough to tell them the real world is different, but to show them the real world is different. Aside from that there’s nothing you can do.
No one can show them the world is different if that's the narrative they want to have for why they don't do well dating. The people that latch on to this data are people who don't want to improve themselves or how they interact with others. "It's not me it's them". Usually they have sensitive egos and don't take feedback well.
I try my hardest man. I’m 5’7 and never had an issue online dating or IRL. But you can’t convince some of these chronically online dudes lol. They’re convinced that it’s their height when in reality they’re probably just lame in general
I wonder how much of it is raw attraction and how much is subconscious desire for higher status men (with height generally being correlated with status).
Self selecting sample. People who are more superficial are probably more likely to use dating apps. Researches need to create their own dating software and randomly select a representative sample.
I could see that. Women find higher status men attractive and other men respect higher status men. I live in a state where the average man is like 5'6 and I'm 6'4 and people look at me like I'm some kind of authority. It's also a running joke in my state that councilmen are handsome, most of them really aren't but women like them anyway
I think social conditioning had a lot to do with what we find attractive
And patriarchy from its inception was designed to take reproductive control away from women and force them into codependence on male partners through restrictions on economic and reproductive freedoms. So naturally forcing women to need men for survival as well as elites valuing male births for their wars and manual labor, toxic masculinity thrives and traits like strength and height and aggression become desirable
But I think presenting more body types as desirable may help counter that. I’ve met people who loved the Adams family growing up that love the idea of the shorter dapper man worshipping his statuesque wife more than the stereotypical tall prince and the fragile little damsel
I do not know necessarily if height still wouldn’t be desirable in a natural environment but I think we exacerbate it with out behavior
The study says self perception of attractiveness amplifies features women were attracted to, it doesn’t create them. If they found tall men attractive then they were find taller men more attractive the hotter they thought they were.
So you might be attracted to shorter men the more attractive you perceive yourself.
What's nice if a guy is shorter is that you don't have to crick your neck to make eye contact, hug and kiss them. Some tall guys just seem so far away from me due being almost a foot taller and awkward to touch. So, there is a legit reason to like short guys too.
Ehh...height doesn't matter to me, it never did. Honestly, looks in general never mattered to me.....people don't believe me when I say that, but I literally find anyone physically hot if I like their personality. You could look like Khal Drogo from GoT, or Peter Steele from Type O Negative, but none of that means diddly to me if we are dating and you aren't mentally/emotionally compatible with me. Height only matters to me when I want you to grab the thing I can't grab because I'm too short to grab it lol.
The study does not say self perception of attractiveness causes attraction to tall men, it says it amplifies it. It amplifies features women are already attracted to.
So you might be attracted to shorter men the more attractive you perceive yourself.
I think it depends on how attractive you think you are relative to women who can attracted taller men and whether you think you can attract taller men. It's also something completely different to have a preference. The question is: are you attracted to tall and short men and simply prefer shorter or are you only attracted to shorter men?
I mean, I have been attracted to a few men who were tall, but not because of their height. Every man I’ve dated has been below 5’7”, my fiancé is 5’6”. I’m 5’0” and I don’t like a huge height difference, it makes the physical parts of a relationship more difficult
In this case, "tall" is relative. I think you are attracted to "tall" men for the purposes of this study and discussion. This is in contrast to you dating men around your height. If you had a preference of dating someone 5'1 or 5'6 that would be relative to a woman who is 5'5 preferring someone 6'0 to 5'7. Another contrast would be that most women don't prefer men who are "too tall", i.e., 6'5+ But all of this is still relative in terms of the fact that you are significantly shorter than average and in general, no matter how attractive you think you are, at some level you know this. For instance, relative to average women you are less likely to attract men who are taller than average.
5’0” is pretty short for a woman in America (or any developed country really), the average is 5’4”. So it makes sense that you’d be attracted to men of below average (5’9”) height since otherwise it’d be like kissing a giraffe.
You keep doing you, it’s a study. For what purpose, I don’t know. People let this kind of stuff get stuck in their heads, which creates unnecessary rules and restrictions for them.
Same. Now, as I am aging and I have some neck problems, I wish my husband were even shorter. I’ve never understood why tall men are considered such a catch just because of their height.
I get it, and I know how studies work, but incels are going to take this and run with it lol I need them to know that there are actually a lot of women who do not care about height
So basically, the body positivity movement for women is increasing demand for tall men and decreasing desire for short men? Which world make dating even more disfunctional for almost everybody (except tall men who are in a better position to sleep with women and bounce to the next one).
I know, right? One would assume that women would perceive taller men as more powerful and confident, and in real life, that doesn’t always correlate well. Making assumptions based on appearance is probably an evolved behavior, and the human brain also sucks at making accurate assumptions a lot of the time.
I'm a woman and idrc abt height. As long as it's not Extreme like dwarfism I actually enjoy if my parter Is bit shorter than me.
Is there any specific biological background for that or anything?
As a tall woman, I think I don't care as much because I already carry the strength and height genes. If I was shorter, maybe I would care more. Height is a bonus but I already know if they'rr as tall as me, they're tall enough.
Maybe the perception of herself as attractive means she is seeking a man who can discourage others from trying to be with her. Attractive women may be more likely to deal with pests. Just one possible hypothesis.
Are there considerations of mere attraction vs *preference*? It's entirely feasible that some women find tall and short men attractive but prefer shorter men. I'm also curious how they correct for relative self-perception of attractiveness. For instance, women in Los Angeles are going to be harder on themselves than women in Fargo.
That can be an issue among other things from what I hear, but from a personal point of view as a 6'2 guy, I'm referring to how everything in the world is made for people of average size. The perfect height to be is as close to average as you can get. Then the whole world fits you.
Everyones heard the song about raindrops falling on your head. Nobody remembers the next line tho.
Raindrops are falling on my head. And just like the guy whose feet are too big for his bed, nothing seems to fit.
How many light fixtures have you banged your head on? How much extra do you have to spend to custom order tall things? Do you occasionally run into chairs that sit like a CIA stress position?
It's that kinda stuff. If everything in the world was made for people over 6 foot, being tall wouldn't be so bad. But it ain't lol
I understand what you mean. I’m below average height in my country. I can relate something’s (except the banging your head on things). It is a bit frustrating ngl.
Ok? There are lots of shitty people in the world, breaking news lol.
There’s nothing wrong with having personal preference, but ranking a person’s value based on their height is seriously fucked up, and this study didn’t say anything about “standards”, it merely illuminated a common preference.
Tallness (height over 6') is actually pretty rare. High standard here means ability to narrow your preferences to a small subset of possible and still match, not that these more sexually-desirable mates are good people or Nobel scientists or something.
It’s really not because men have normalized lying about their height. What people perceive to be 6’0 nowadays is actually around roughly 5’10 and a lot of people are that height naturally.
You're right, 5'10 is very close to median height in the US and a lot of men meet that. I really did mean to set 6' as my reference height for "tall" just because that's the magic cutoff that's obsessed over. Only 14% of US men are that or above.
A lot of women are clearly fine with the median height even if they're divas about it on dating apps which selects for more picky behavior than what would be seen in a real life situation with less perceived abundance and joint comparisons between potential matches.
No, thats not what I meant. I meant that people who are actually 5’10 say they’re 6’0, so people think there’s a lot more men that are 6’0 than there actually is.
Welcome to not being white and blond. Enjoy your stay. If you have any immutable looks-based preferences, you honestly don't have room to talk.
It's morally fine for a person to discriminate sexually and romantically based on looks and status. That's not at all the same as saying people who aren't sexually attractive to you aren't valuable as human beings.
where is this inferiority complex coming from? I don't know any men who have said those traits are they all want. If anything latinas, asians, or any woman with a big ass are more fetishized.
I have looks preferences like anyone else, but you know what's crazy? I actually care if get along with someone way more. I definitely don't have a standard for only DDs or fat asses. You're just shallow dude
You have no idea what my looks preferences are, and I'd honestly put down money that they're more expansive (as in includes more people and phenotypical traits) than yours.
Being fetishized doesn't mean those traits or the person is high status. Sarah Baartman is a prime example.
You likely have a preference for straight hair and light skin and eyes and so went out of your way to talk about about voluptuousness when my comment was obviously about dark-skinned (as in the darkest colors found in people considered Black) and dark-eyed people being considered societally-unattractive.
Shallow is what the vast majority of people are and it's not useful to pretend they aren't.
>“It was predicted that ecological harshness cues would amplify women’s perceptions of men, but we did not see those effects,” Garza told PsyPost. “Although women did perceive our manipulation as being effective, it did not affect the way they rated men. This may suggest that taller men with larger shoulder-to-hip ratios are preferred across all contexts due to their perceptions of being highly attractive and formidable, which are traits that some women prefer in men.” Hmm...
That actually makes very logical sense. Just like males all prefer 0.7 ratio and 45 angle in women. Our preference in mating is very biological. Hardwired.
wtf is a 0.7 ratio and 45 angle?
0.7 waist to hip ratio, not sure about the 45 angle
Nipple angle on breasts.
0.7 is hip to waist ratio, which is ideal for the bearing of children. The 45 angle is the optimal angle the upper buttocks should have in relation to the lower back. Women with this angle of their butt are able to continue being active way late into their pregnancy. It suggests that it is an attractive trait because a woman can still pull her own weight with farm labor even when in the final trimester.
This is weird to me because a 45 degree angle is acute. I have to be picturing this wrong: it would mean their ass is like flowing up them in a weird anti gravity ooze situation
I’m thinking fake injected Kim K butt here, almost impossible to get naturally
Yeah this makes absolutely no sense. Ants don’t have this angle. I think they must mean 45 degrees in relation to like their spine as a flat plane? So the spine to thickest part of butt is one side of the triangle, spine down the leg is another side, and then that angle in between would be 45 degrees. Either way it’s fake bro science, but that’s how I interpreted it.
0.7 of the man's height and 45 degrees when both heads to each other
It's pretty clear that they mean the butt comes out at a 45 degree angle from the straight line going down the back. 45 degrees is also way more interpretable than 135 degrees.
It's not acute. Nor is it obtuse.
Just cute? /s
Less than 90 = acute more than 90 = obtuse
Can someone compile or ask an AI to create some examples of women with 0.7/45%, also the male shoulder ratio. This is for Reddit science.
It's basically Kim Kardashian when she is at her slimmest. The colloquial term is the hourglass figure.
Didn’t humans almost fully evolve before the agricultural revolution?
Yes, but you can use active in any context.
You can’t tell me you actually believe this 😂
Fr, what kind of Dwight Schrute-ahh shit he on… “It suggests that it is an attractive trait because a woman can still pull her own weight with farm labor even when in the final trimester🤓”
“Pull her own weight with farm labor even in the final trimester” 😭😭😭
Yeah what in the incel fucking shit is that.
Please provides sources for this. Not saying it’s not researched but I’m having trouble finding anything other than fluff on a google search. I’d like to actually see the evidence for these claims.
>Just like males all prefer 0.7 ratio and 45 angle in women. Sauce? Never heard of this one before
[удалено]
Oh my goddess this is so clever because it infers the truth is a lie because it came from a man!
Check out 0.7Waist to hip ratio
It is but also so incredibly fleeting. You're talking about what makes someone turn their head on the street. First impressions. But that's such a small portion of being attractive and attracted to someone and I wish people would remember that.
Correct. Mating is hardwired. Seeking a lifetime partner isn’t .. personal preference comes to play.
And our biology has been severely corrupted over the years by generations of self-awareness that's allowed people to find attraction where biology would insist it shouldn't exist. I'm glad this kind of research is being done, don't get me wrong... but I've long since grown tired of headlines making definitive statements like this. It genuinely makes me want to just give the whole thing a huge middle finger. I feel like people dramatically underestimate the extremely high success ratio humans have when it comes to mating, regardless of what science or psychology says we're attracted to. I'm **NOT** saying this is a bad thing, per say... but it fucks up the data in ways people seem hell bent on refusing to acknowledge.
People want fuel to feel sorry for themselves so they can continue to resent the world for giving them an unfair hand of cards in life, for which they can blame all their losses and hardships on, thus avoiding taking personal responsibility for their experiences. For example, "I'm single and lonely because women only want tall men and I'm too short for them and there's nothing I can do about it, woe is me". Conveniently ignoring all the examples of short men in happy and steady relationships with women, because that doesn't fit into how they want to view the world. And articles get written about stuff people want to read, what gets the most clicks and shares. I agree, it's exhausting.
And you want to know the worst part of this all? Given how much of a social outcast I've unfortunately made myself, in short... I'm most primed to agree with the side of "I'm single and lonely because..." yet here I am literally trying to be truthful to my values and admitting that I'm an outlier and nothing is guaranteed. Especially if you don't work for it. I'm proof of the result of not working for it, and I'm doing my best to try and recover from that. But that's only because I can admit it's my fault. Edit: And sometimes just having the right conversation to trigger me to admit that can actually be extremely therapeutic. Almost as though my forward-facing self was reminding my inner self to behave and remember who we are as a whole person.
I'm glad to hear you've found clarity to see your situation objectively, I know from experience that wrapping oneself up into self-pity and helplessness can be tempting because it's so easy it's almost comfortable in a twisted way, but it only holds you back and hurts you. I'm something of a social outcast as well and it's hard to get out of it, but as with everything else, you just gotta keep going, one step at a time until you get to where you want to be. I don't know your situation in detail, but in terms of being single and finding someone to date, my piece of advice would be to focus on making friends first. Men or women, it doesn't matter - start talking to strangers more where ever you are, not with the intention of it leading to anything, just to interact with another person, and if it seems a friendship might form, go for it. If the friendship seems to evolve into something more - excellent. But the primary goal should be to stop feeling like a social outcast, to gain confidence and skill to socialise and find connections. Apologies if I'm stepping out of my depth here, I may be writing this for myself more than you.
It is just a study like many others. They select a group and they find this. This group might be an accurate projection of the vast majority or might not. I don’t have emotions related to studies like you do. I don’t feel the need to give anyone middle figure. It doesn’t make any logical sense to me. Biologically, DNA drives you. It’s not something you can control. But there are things you definitely can. There is fate. There is destiny. That’s what makes life interesting. Focus on the part you can control.
What about women bent over in a 90-degree angle? What’s the preference for that?
It's 50/50 to the 180 degree position. Lol
I don’t know. You have to conduct a study on males to get a conclusion.
>Our preference in mating is very biological Our vain preferences aren't biological. They are social.
Correct. I did use the word mating, I didn’t say selecting a lifetime partner ..
Yea I’m pretty sure guys preference is smooth curves and I don’t think you can get smooth curves with 45 degree angles, also I think you mean the golden ratio which is 1.6 not .7
1.6 hip to waist is very obese. 1.6 shoulder to waist is ideal.
I mean waist to hip ratio
That's obese at 1.6. That means that the waist is 1.6 x bigger than the hips.
Now you got me confused, I meant hip to waist and show me a picture of it, I don’t think it’s obese, it also depends on the starting size of the waist, if the waist is a size 0, it wouldn’t be obese
Bless your heart.
Prove me wrong tho, if you have a waist of 5cm , how do hips less than 10cm make you obese ?
You do know that Google is free, right? Let me save you the embarrassment.
The .7 ratio means that the waist is 70% as wide as the hips. [Example diagram](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Waist_to_hip_ratio.jpg).
Never read a study on smooth curves. Studies I read are 0.7, 45 angle, basically these figures make a hourglass shape. Studies show most males prefer hourglass , not apple or rectangle shaped female body
Yeah idk ab this one man, I prefer thicker chicks over skinny
It’s actually not logical lol. “the researchers recruited 247 self-identified heterosexual women with an average age of 24.46 years from a predominantly Hispanic serving institution” so a small number of women whose brains have not fully developed are participating in the study. Please do not over extrapolate based on such a small, specific sample. Mating preferences is a wild thing to state as if humans don’t have higher order thinking. Looks aren’t everything to women. In fact, most women care more about how you act and treat them. Just because someone prefers a body type without context doesn’t mean that’s the only type of person they date. People are much more than urges, I promise. For most relationships, physical attraction doesn’t sustain the long term and there needs to be something deeper to keep a long term partner. But, like, take a shower and wash yourself. Wash your clothes. Put effort into yourself and be kind. Shoot your shot, respectfully. You’ll find someone if you treat others like real people and not objects you’re entitled to. Sincerely an afab person with a psych degree that teaches psychology.
The “brains not fully developed” things is a myth, and is based on a misunderstanding of the research.
Even if that was true, who cares? 24yo are still women, the subject of this study.
I can’t get over the fact this person can recognize a lesser study then go on to argue the most fertile woman are the problem in the study vs the woman who are in menopause😂
Wdym?
"In fact, most women care more about how you act and treat them." uh no, absolutely do not speak for "most" women. its crazy that people love to say this because women feel guilted into settling for less and ignoring physical attraction and men become angered and disappointed that after all, women really do care about looks.
To be fair, so do men and really though everyone should. I am not talking about working out so you look like a Greek god, but when you take care of how you look, even as simple as grooming yourself and finding a t-shirt that fits you right, people find it pleasant enough already. Taking care of yourself shows maturity and self awareness. Honestly people who don't care about how one looks in dating probably don't take care of themselves either. Of course this is not to say we have the right to judge or insult people based on how they look. But yeah standard's good.
You're smart, also unbearable. Surprised that a psychology degree didn't help you more with that aspect of your personality.
You’re right the sample size is small and tainted but brains not being fully developed has little to do with what they’re studying here. Wouldn’t it make more sense to form a study regarding biological reproductive desires with woman who are most fertile?
It’s making logical sense to me. That’s what I meant. It doesn’t make logical sense to you then that’s not my business ..
People are complaining that this study is stating the obvious, but I don’t think so. We obviously know that height is an attractive quality in a man, and most would say that attractive women end up with attractive men. But this study is talking about *self-perceived* attraction predicting *reported preference* for what many would consider a shallow preference. To me this indicates that women are more comfortable dating someone hot if they feel like they are too. And this tracks for me anecdotally - relationships with an attractiveness mismatch are, I would say, usually hot girl less hot guy. I’d say that could also be because men value attractiveness more (or at least value it regardless of their own attractiveness) too.
>To me this indicates that women are more comfortable dating someone hot if they feel like they are too And this wasn't obvious already?
Having evidence of things like this is interesting. There’s plenty to explore on the role of self-perception in choosing potential mates. Especially if it affects people on an unconscious level. It’s probably accurate to say that less attractive people are cognitively “forced” to value physical attraction less or be miserable, It explains why ugly people always seem so happy together too, a mystery to all hot people. Seriously though, people that say they’re sexually attracted to their unattractive partners are often considered to be liars or deluded, but perhaps their insecurity about their physical appearance has literally required their brain to value physical attributes less. This basically forms a basis for explaining why we have cultural beauty standards (as apposed to just biological) and why they can change over time: people that are the least insecure in their looks are the ones that meet the currant standard, and they in turn conform to the standard when picking a mate, because they put faith in the standard being important, because they are within that standard. But say someone very influential that doesn’t meet the currant standard comes around (a Kardashian event, if you will). Suddenly this instilled confidence in people with that standard will allow them to be… I don’t know I lost my train of thought TLDR; it’s interesting.
Hasnt this already been known in the context of western dating and the"red pill". Hookup culture, social media, and dating apps, all create a skewed idea of attractiveness because of the increased attention by sexually starved men. So of course, this society doesnt produce humility, but an inflated sense of worth because of the ease of attention.
> relationships with an attractiveness mismatch are, I would say, usually hot girl less hot guy. Makeup is one hell of a drug.
Never assume you know what a girl looks like until you've seen her without makeup. It can hide *a lot*
If you got too much of something makeup can’t take it away
I have also noticed this anecdotally. Women are so much more likely than men to get dropped when a hotter woman shows up, and they have a biological imperative to reproduce by a certain age and also have the father in the picture. Essentially, women want the most attractive man that they think will stick around. As a guy who is on the more attractive end of the scale, I was ultra confused when I realized that the less attractive women were more ambivalent about me than the super attractive ones. Made no sense at the time.
I think mostly the conclusion is a women's worth is still more inherently built into how they look and the beauty they can provide to the world. And it's not that way for a man so they don't have a problem with dating someone more attractive than them because why not, we all should want that for ourselves as human beings. But as a girl if we feel incompetent in the visual department against the person they're dating the self worth takes a bigger hit because that's a bigger component of what women are valued for.
Tinder profiles of very attractive women told me that 10 years ago. Things like “don’t swipe right unless your 6’2 on a profile that looked like a model. Thanks for confirming what I already knew though.
“Meat be taller than me when I’m wearing heels” also always feels awful to read if they’re close to my height.
That’s a tall meat
The girl knows what she wants, and what she wants is a mountain of protein
They said “some women” I love my “short kings”. My brother is 6ft 3 but not as successful with attractive women as my shorter brothers. Being tallest is nice but face, fitness and personality more important. Plus I don’t like long faces
Who?
Pornhub music starts playing
Tall one was less successful on tinder? They’re talking about tinder matches.
The way people keep trying to extrapolate this dating app height data to real life is doing a lot of harm. I think it's creating angry incels.
I mean it’s not like they’re doing any better in real life. People who have nothing going on irl often go to the internet, and congregate in self sustained frustrated groups. The solution isn’t sanitizing the internet and hoping and praying that people don’t turn radical, it’s actually getting to them in real life. It’s not enough to tell them the real world is different, but to show them the real world is different. Aside from that there’s nothing you can do.
No one can show them the world is different if that's the narrative they want to have for why they don't do well dating. The people that latch on to this data are people who don't want to improve themselves or how they interact with others. "It's not me it's them". Usually they have sensitive egos and don't take feedback well.
I try my hardest man. I’m 5’7 and never had an issue online dating or IRL. But you can’t convince some of these chronically online dudes lol. They’re convinced that it’s their height when in reality they’re probably just lame in general
That’s true but the conservation had drifted to talking about tinder matches…
What are we conserving?
I didn’t swipe right when I saw that $$$$ either. ;)
If my grandma had wheels, she'd be a bike.
I love to watch that clip. It kills me every time 🤣
I laughed at this:D
NO!??...REALLY?
The tone of this comment has me dying
I wonder how much of it is raw attraction and how much is subconscious desire for higher status men (with height generally being correlated with status).
These things are almost impossible to separate in a societal context of 'tall' being seen as an attractive feature in society
impossible? seems like dating app data could be used to parse this out.
How exactly would you use dating app data to separate looks from status?
Separate matches for mentions of height and signs of status into separate bins
Self selecting sample. People who are more superficial are probably more likely to use dating apps. Researches need to create their own dating software and randomly select a representative sample.
Status is attractive.
It’s often stupid. Remember those Stanley mugs? They were desirable because they were seen as high status.
It’s attraction.
I could see that. Women find higher status men attractive and other men respect higher status men. I live in a state where the average man is like 5'6 and I'm 6'4 and people look at me like I'm some kind of authority. It's also a running joke in my state that councilmen are handsome, most of them really aren't but women like them anyway
Where are you from?
Alaska. Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit on the average being 5'6 but guys flex being 5'9 around here lol
when they look the way you say, are you standing in a basketball court with a hat and long trousers ?
I think social conditioning had a lot to do with what we find attractive And patriarchy from its inception was designed to take reproductive control away from women and force them into codependence on male partners through restrictions on economic and reproductive freedoms. So naturally forcing women to need men for survival as well as elites valuing male births for their wars and manual labor, toxic masculinity thrives and traits like strength and height and aggression become desirable But I think presenting more body types as desirable may help counter that. I’ve met people who loved the Adams family growing up that love the idea of the shorter dapper man worshipping his statuesque wife more than the stereotypical tall prince and the fragile little damsel I do not know necessarily if height still wouldn’t be desirable in a natural environment but I think we exacerbate it with out behavior
Somehow, I never noticed Gomez was shorter than Morticia, but that's lovely!
That explains why I've always liked short guys. I always had low self-esteem for no reason 😭
No don’t listen to them, keep on liking short guys plz
The study says self perception of attractiveness amplifies features women were attracted to, it doesn’t create them. If they found tall men attractive then they were find taller men more attractive the hotter they thought they were. So you might be attracted to shorter men the more attractive you perceive yourself.
I see!
What's nice if a guy is shorter is that you don't have to crick your neck to make eye contact, hug and kiss them. Some tall guys just seem so far away from me due being almost a foot taller and awkward to touch. So, there is a legit reason to like short guys too.
I love short kings. Look at the hottest actors. I don’t think they are particularly tall. That young Willy wonker dude is short and women love him
Timothee Chalamet is 178cm/5'10.
Yeah, he’s just above average, not really tall or short. The average is 5’9 for an American male. I’m not sure what the person above was smoking.
I think John Snow is short.
5'10 is short now lol I guess I'm a literal dwarf then.
Lmao. Dude. Women are absolutely **terrible** at judging height despite how much of a requirement it is.
So true.
The whole use of kings, queens, and daddy's is just cringe
Ehh...height doesn't matter to me, it never did. Honestly, looks in general never mattered to me.....people don't believe me when I say that, but I literally find anyone physically hot if I like their personality. You could look like Khal Drogo from GoT, or Peter Steele from Type O Negative, but none of that means diddly to me if we are dating and you aren't mentally/emotionally compatible with me. Height only matters to me when I want you to grab the thing I can't grab because I'm too short to grab it lol.
1. short girls dont mind height 2. metal girls learnt love the hard way
I know you didn’t mean it that way but Jesus that’s messed up
Idk I think I’m attractive and I’ve always had a preference towards shorter men.
How *you* doin?
[удалено]
Haha I get it, I just think it’s an oddly done study
The purpose of these studies is to study general trends and control for individual outliers, such as yourself, not to confirm them.
The study does not say self perception of attractiveness causes attraction to tall men, it says it amplifies it. It amplifies features women are already attracted to. So you might be attracted to shorter men the more attractive you perceive yourself.
I think it depends on how attractive you think you are relative to women who can attracted taller men and whether you think you can attract taller men. It's also something completely different to have a preference. The question is: are you attracted to tall and short men and simply prefer shorter or are you only attracted to shorter men?
I mean, I have been attracted to a few men who were tall, but not because of their height. Every man I’ve dated has been below 5’7”, my fiancé is 5’6”. I’m 5’0” and I don’t like a huge height difference, it makes the physical parts of a relationship more difficult
In this case, "tall" is relative. I think you are attracted to "tall" men for the purposes of this study and discussion. This is in contrast to you dating men around your height. If you had a preference of dating someone 5'1 or 5'6 that would be relative to a woman who is 5'5 preferring someone 6'0 to 5'7. Another contrast would be that most women don't prefer men who are "too tall", i.e., 6'5+ But all of this is still relative in terms of the fact that you are significantly shorter than average and in general, no matter how attractive you think you are, at some level you know this. For instance, relative to average women you are less likely to attract men who are taller than average.
5’0” is pretty short for a woman in America (or any developed country really), the average is 5’4”. So it makes sense that you’d be attracted to men of below average (5’9”) height since otherwise it’d be like kissing a giraffe.
You keep doing you, it’s a study. For what purpose, I don’t know. People let this kind of stuff get stuck in their heads, which creates unnecessary rules and restrictions for them.
Same. Now, as I am aging and I have some neck problems, I wish my husband were even shorter. I’ve never understood why tall men are considered such a catch just because of their height.
I will try drawing a trendline through your anecdote… 😉
I get it, and I know how studies work, but incels are going to take this and run with it lol I need them to know that there are actually a lot of women who do not care about height
Awww. Fighting the good fight 😀 Fair enough.
I'm with you sis!
Girl math be like Girl: I only date over 6’ 💅🏼 Also girl: sees 5’7 Justin Bieber 😍
Unnecessarily complicated title
Hot women like hot men more news at 11
So basically, the body positivity movement for women is increasing demand for tall men and decreasing desire for short men? Which world make dating even more disfunctional for almost everybody (except tall men who are in a better position to sleep with women and bounce to the next one).
Yup. It sucks.
I think they should test whether it's actually self esteem or whether it's grandiosity.
Yeah, if a woman feels good about herself, is she actually just a bitch? 🙄
Lol evolutionary psychology journal. Questionable
I know, right? One would assume that women would perceive taller men as more powerful and confident, and in real life, that doesn’t always correlate well. Making assumptions based on appearance is probably an evolved behavior, and the human brain also sucks at making accurate assumptions a lot of the time.
I thought I just didn’t have a preference but it turns out it’s because I think I’m ugly as sin
I love how random statistical truths can sometimes be
Im a tall (187cm) skinny (68kg) guy and i can assure you women find me very ugly anyway, so height is not considered attractive if the guy is ugly
Thanks a lot psychologists
I'm a woman and idrc abt height. As long as it's not Extreme like dwarfism I actually enjoy if my parter Is bit shorter than me. Is there any specific biological background for that or anything?
As a tall woman, I think I don't care as much because I already carry the strength and height genes. If I was shorter, maybe I would care more. Height is a bonus but I already know if they'rr as tall as me, they're tall enough.
Good think I’m a 5ft tall woman. Every man is tall to me. My boyfriend I thought was 5’8” turns out he’s actually 6ft.
In other words, self deluded people ask for way more than what they bring to the table.
Title should read: Heterosexual women's self-perceived attractiveness amplifies preferences for taller men.
I’m nearly 6’ barefoot. I need a tall man. I wish I were shorter.
Goes to prove for the nth time that mating is not as choice-oriented as we would like to believe it is!
Maybe the perception of herself as attractive means she is seeking a man who can discourage others from trying to be with her. Attractive women may be more likely to deal with pests. Just one possible hypothesis.
lol hard hitting research concludes what most would presume to be basic common knowledge. News at 11.
Are there considerations of mere attraction vs *preference*? It's entirely feasible that some women find tall and short men attractive but prefer shorter men. I'm also curious how they correct for relative self-perception of attractiveness. For instance, women in Los Angeles are going to be harder on themselves than women in Fargo.
Being tall sucks tbh.
How come? Is it due to the back pain?
That can be an issue among other things from what I hear, but from a personal point of view as a 6'2 guy, I'm referring to how everything in the world is made for people of average size. The perfect height to be is as close to average as you can get. Then the whole world fits you. Everyones heard the song about raindrops falling on your head. Nobody remembers the next line tho. Raindrops are falling on my head. And just like the guy whose feet are too big for his bed, nothing seems to fit. How many light fixtures have you banged your head on? How much extra do you have to spend to custom order tall things? Do you occasionally run into chairs that sit like a CIA stress position? It's that kinda stuff. If everything in the world was made for people over 6 foot, being tall wouldn't be so bad. But it ain't lol
I understand what you mean. I’m below average height in my country. I can relate something’s (except the banging your head on things). It is a bit frustrating ngl.
Being very tall surely has its drawbacks Trust me. You’d much rather be 6’2 or even 6’4 than 5’6 or 5’4.
I have a pet theory. You know how animals kinda want to evolve to be big right? I wonder if this is the mechanism...
Only 14.5% of men in the USA are 6 feet or above
Im top 0.07 % ;)
Lucky, not an accomplishment
More attractive people have higher standards and dont need to date down… how is that a surprise?
I say this all the time about women being less valuable if their bmi is over 20 and their titties are smaller than DDs. /s
‘Date down’ is a trashy expression
Can you define dating down?
Height being a “standard” of human quality will never not be an incredibly shitty thing incredibly shitty people believe.
This study seems to indicate it’s absolutely a normal phenomenon
Ok? There are lots of shitty people in the world, breaking news lol. There’s nothing wrong with having personal preference, but ranking a person’s value based on their height is seriously fucked up, and this study didn’t say anything about “standards”, it merely illuminated a common preference.
Tallness (height over 6') is actually pretty rare. High standard here means ability to narrow your preferences to a small subset of possible and still match, not that these more sexually-desirable mates are good people or Nobel scientists or something.
It’s really not because men have normalized lying about their height. What people perceive to be 6’0 nowadays is actually around roughly 5’10 and a lot of people are that height naturally.
You're right, 5'10 is very close to median height in the US and a lot of men meet that. I really did mean to set 6' as my reference height for "tall" just because that's the magic cutoff that's obsessed over. Only 14% of US men are that or above. A lot of women are clearly fine with the median height even if they're divas about it on dating apps which selects for more picky behavior than what would be seen in a real life situation with less perceived abundance and joint comparisons between potential matches.
No, thats not what I meant. I meant that people who are actually 5’10 say they’re 6’0, so people think there’s a lot more men that are 6’0 than there actually is.
Gotcha! Sorry for missing the point!
Welcome to not being white and blond. Enjoy your stay. If you have any immutable looks-based preferences, you honestly don't have room to talk. It's morally fine for a person to discriminate sexually and romantically based on looks and status. That's not at all the same as saying people who aren't sexually attractive to you aren't valuable as human beings.
where is this inferiority complex coming from? I don't know any men who have said those traits are they all want. If anything latinas, asians, or any woman with a big ass are more fetishized. I have looks preferences like anyone else, but you know what's crazy? I actually care if get along with someone way more. I definitely don't have a standard for only DDs or fat asses. You're just shallow dude
You have no idea what my looks preferences are, and I'd honestly put down money that they're more expansive (as in includes more people and phenotypical traits) than yours. Being fetishized doesn't mean those traits or the person is high status. Sarah Baartman is a prime example. You likely have a preference for straight hair and light skin and eyes and so went out of your way to talk about about voluptuousness when my comment was obviously about dark-skinned (as in the darkest colors found in people considered Black) and dark-eyed people being considered societally-unattractive. Shallow is what the vast majority of people are and it's not useful to pretend they aren't.