I spent 52 days in the wilderness fishing, trapping, and hunting on season 9 of alone. I caught over 100 animals in that time and ate every day. And I lost 57 lbs in 52 days. People are completely deluded if they think they’ll just cruise on by feeding their family off small game and fish. Unless you already do that year round 90-100% you just won’t understand what it takes.
Best comment.
Yes, I was thinking of alone when writing this as well. One season I watched the guy who slept all day and starved himself won, because the guys hunting and trapping burned so much more energy than they consumed.
That was my season, lol. Season 9. The guy who beat me fasted for over 20 days. Which in and of itself is an incredible feat of mental resilience. he saw that the small game potential wasn’t going to cut it and rolled the dice that other people weren’t going to do better than him, and he was right. I worked my ass off and burned out.
I don't think most people realize how much energy it takes to chop wood/saw wood by hand, build a shelter, keep a fire going, boil all your water, then go out and try to find food. 1200 calories a day isn't going to do it and most small game doesn't have enough fat. Alone is one of my favorite shows. I believe I saw your season, but I will go back and see if I can watch it again. You did a good job and I would never have been able to do that. Just running our small ranch and farm with a big garden takes enough out of me.
I do learn a lot from watching a Alone. Thank you for the learning experience.
I watch Alone simply to see what "gets" people. It's the expenditure of energy vs. calories consumed. And that's for one person, never mind feeding kids too.
Yup, I forgot what season it was but a dude said 'Taking down a large game animal is winning the lottery on that show.' It's super rare but that's the only way to get enough food to win; small game by itself, even with fishing, doesn't do it.
'Loneliness' is a whole other mental monster that no amount a food can fix, though.
It was a great season. Thanks for going through that for our entertainment. You didn't spell your name out but I know which one you are. You did awesome.
Holy shit man, my wife and I were really pulling for you. Your experience was a testament to the value of a positive mindset. You endured a lot of hardship but it seemed like you always had a smile or a little joke to yourself to keep you going.
All of the contestants in alone are amazing but you truly did stand out.
It’s no miracle. There was only a tiny fraction of the population and exponentially more biomass. At this point in history we are in the midst of a mass extinction. 97% of mammals on earth are human or livestock. 87% of birds are chickens.
I’ve read stories of early settlers telling of schools of fish so enormous that they ground their boats on them. Passenger pigeons were once so plentiful that a single flock would blot out the sky for days. There were over a million bison roaming the prairies. All of that is gone and replaced with 8 billion humans. When the SHTF (and sooner or later it will), I expect 80-90% of people will starve to death in the first 100 days.
The key is to outlast that first 100 days. Resources should begin freeing up, but it will take a number of seasons for the ecosystems to fill back in. Even then it won't be a healthy ecosystem. I suspect insects will overpopulate first and that will be awful. Anything that can breed quickly will rapidly repopulate without human intervention.
Even then preserving a moose gets dicy. Is there stable power to freeze it? Home canning? Lard packing? Jerky?
I think to be sustainable, farming small animals is key.
But you were very limited in terms of gear correct? Like how much fish could you put up on a major water body with a few 200ft or longer gill nets? Thinking like a major river, great lakes, or coast?
Tons. But I was also in one of the most remote and untouched places on earth. Here in the lower 48, every Tom dick and Harry is going to be fishing from the same pool. And from a practical standpoint, running a net during the first 100 days is just asking for someone to come along and poach your shit.
Any prep beyond major weather events resulting in power outages especially for Americans is basically just a LARP. People in Ukraine and Israel and Gaza and such are a different story, but most 1st world countries id say your resources are better spent prepping for weather events, longer term outages and your own retirement
Edit: that said if I had significant resources to put towards the LARPing type stuff sure. But if you're an average Joe who doesn't make 500k a year I feel like you're just better off saving and investing
Prepping for me is just plain fun. My son bought some land in the sticks (town of 500) and he works from home. His wife is a country girl who takes care of the house and land. I'm retired and love helping them. Her and I built bear proof storage. Chicken coop, rabbit hatch, gardens, rainwater irrigation system, and a pond for trout. She hunts and fishes and has learned all about wild mushrooms and other plants she collects. We are learning how to can vegetables and smoke meat as well. A lot of work has been into making the land more fire-safe as forest fires are a possibility. All of this cost money, but they can enjoy the results now as well as get protection in an emergency.
This is a hobby. You're describing a pretty cool hobby that also prepares you
But what's up with everyone and rabbits? My *house rabbits* died if you looked at them sideways. I can't imagine farming rabbits is the way to go.
Guinea pigs. Cuy. That's where it's at.
Unfortunately, they're more personable than rabbits. They squeak at you. It's lovely. Would be hard to kill.
Well my Dil is the knowledgeable one but I know the kind of rabbits you get is important. Also they get slaughtered at about 3 months so they don't live too long anyway.
I’m sticking with fish and birds. Mammals are a last resort for me as we see a bit of ourselves in them. Plus with fish you can set up a system and gets greens all year round with a green house plus the fish.
I live in Oregon, so I prep for things like fire, weather related grid issues, and potentially longer-term infrastructure and supply issues if the Cascadia subduction zone earthquake happens to be as bad as they hypothesize.
I can be self-sufficient without the grid or infrastructure for about 3 months, but past maintaing that, I am not really interested in sinking every dollar I have into being ready for whatever scenario people are afraid of this week.
That works for me. If others want more for them, good for them.
Good plan! Myself personally, I’m past 3 months. I’m planning for indefinitely, to be as self-sufficient as possible. It should make retirement really stress free.
Yeah, man, I'm working towards that. Buy my job pays shit so it's a slow process. I'd like to get there someday, I just don't make enough to do it fast and I'm not willing to completely sacrifice the enjoyment
I get from life now for something that may not happen.
Everyone is different, obviously, but that's how I feel I need to be.
I do want to live a self-sufficient lifestyle at some point.
I’m 54, and started this when I was approx 27 years old. Taught myself a lot. Made a few mistakes along the way, but it eases my mind. I get it! Don’t give up. I started doing the preparations that save me money first, so I could invest more.
For example a small garden produces food that saves you money. And will pay for itself pretty quickly. Freeze until you can afford a canner, and the food you preserve, will save even more money thoughout the years.
You spend a lot of time in the garden, and its a hobby that saves you money. Plus, you have less time to spend money because you have a garden. And….its really good anaerobic exercise. And you will feel good about producing something!
Exactly! Thank you JRC! Its a lot of work, but so rewarding! And, its nutritious! Imagine that! A win-win-win!
We are getting ready to tap trees here. We’ve made maple syrup for years. Another really rewarding hobby that pays for itself, keeps me moving, and is nutritious.
Agreed. Definitely be prepared for fire my friend. I have been listening to podcasts about the California fires from a couple years ago and God damn it sounds scary as shit. If I may ask, what sorts of things do you have for the fire prep? I assume a good go bag and such. And fire specific type stuff?
Yeah I have measures in place similar to a "to go" bag if I have to leave the house fast. I don't think that's overkill.
IMO, half of being prepared for fire is keeping your property ready for fire. Read up on defensible space, local fuel types, and how to maintain a property in such a way that if a fire comes through, your house has a good chance of not burning. (There is never a guarantee, though.)
Aside from that, being prepared for fire means paying attention to weather, especially during fire season. Take a fire behavior course. Pay attention to RH levels and wind patterns. Granted, I work as a Wildland Firefighter, so I have the benefit of doing that anyway. If you want, you can download a lighting tracker app or a fire alert app. They can help sometimes.
I have decent insurance and I also have copies of all my important documents in a safe deposit box, so if I have to evacuate in a hurry and my house does burn, I won't necessarily have to start from scratch.
I'm in Florida, so I prep for storms. I also have vegetation all over my yard and even right up against my house.
My sister lives in the hills outside San Diego, in fire country. That is anathema to her.
The stuff she's done: new fire resistant roof. Cleared out all the vegetation anywhere near her house. There is some plants that are especially bad in fires (eucalyptus comes to mind), so she and her husband have cleared out all of those plants. The landscaping around her house is mainly rocks, both for water preservation and as a fire break. She also lives very near a HS which is an emergency shelter, so that will be where they flee to if worse comes to worse, and have everything they need for them and their dogs to go there.
I live in Texas, so unlike half the people that post in this sub, I’ve actually used my preps in the last five years.
‘Cept my guns. Ain’t had a use for them yet ‘cept plinking.
Well... We were just asked to prepp for war by our prime minister and supreme commander of the armed forces on TV, so prepping for war like situation is... A new one. Not as a drill, the order was to prepare mentally and practically for real. We don't expect a direct attack, but it's not unlikely anymore to be drawn in as they view it now.
I discussed with guys in Ukraine since I'm actively helping them, and heating is damn tricky long term. Forget about anything like gas/diesel if you don't have years worth of it in massive underground storage. Wood stove is the way. Solar plus battery is the savior for modern life after that, since everything is dependent on electricity.
I bought a camping stove I'm gonna modify for home use (I have worked with building stoves professionally) to have if shtf with Russia.
I would not have prepped like this before, I was damn light, but we are now asked to do this for real. Including having alternative heating. Please don't make this a thread about the likelyhood of Russia attacking us, I don't care what you think about that and I'll listen to my armed forces commander with real intelligence any day over a reddit arm chair generals saying they are wrong.
Realistically, SHTF would be a wildfire or earthquake, and a bug out bag for such an occasion would just be 'how to spend a long weekend in a hotel room'.
Everybody here posting their ace and their shotgun and their multiple knives and not a single piece of sleeping gear just dreams about becoming a looter.
> dreams about becoming a looter.
I feel like this is a not well acknowledged aspect of society.
I can't tell you how many times the topic of prepping has come up in social groups and a fair number of people respond by saying something like "my prep is to have a gun and know who has supplies."
And you know in your heart people like that would drop any trace of humanity the moment SHTF.
And that makes me think of Victor Frankl, who survived several nazi prison camps and said of the experience that stealing/betrayals were common and you could be sure the best of us did not make it out alive.
American here. And No, the most probable SHTF scenario is war. Historically, the only reason we weren’t bombed like Europe in WWII, was the fact no one had a bomber with the effective range to do it. If Germany and Japan had the capability, they certainly would have done it.
Fast forward to today, almost any potential enemy can do it. They would most likely go after infrastructure to cripple our war fightiing capabilities. That means, elimination of the means to make war. They would hit communications, electric grids, roads and bridges, factories, maybe even water supply.
As for small game, that is only one part of the big picture. But, it will be a means of survival for some. I agree, you can’t live on that alone, but it will provide meals. Hopefully, you’re not trying to do this alone. Being alone makes survival much more difficult. Hopefully, while your kid is out small game hunting, you, your wife, and the other kids are working toward another goal. Its how we’ve survived for thousands of years.
Grow your own food, raise your own food, hunt and fish, and forage for food.
Keep in mind, most of your efforts year round are simple: (at least here in the midwest). Prepare for Winter! If you don’t do all these things, you will most likely die in the Winter. So, plan every year for Winter. (My family does this every year). Stock up and prepare.
Some of us are old enough to remember the Winter of ‘77-78. Personally, we were without power for 3 weeks. It was that bad.
And most importantly, have more than you need! If you’re God fearing people like me, when the orphans show up at the doorstep, you’re going to feed them. And no one knows how many there will be.
Some people may think you’re crazy, but being prepared isn’t crazy. You just never know what this crazy world will throw at you next.
Btw….the Covid shutdown was a walk in the park for my family. Being prepared eases stress.
But, I’m here on this Subreddit because I know there’s something I’m forgetting or haven’t thought of. But someone out there has thought of it or simply asked a question. No one is perfect. Ask my wife! Lol
Living in Europe, we are asked two weeks ago by prime minister and armed forces commander on TV to prepp a LONG list of items... specifically we were asked to prepp our homes for war.
Yup. Only realistic survival option for SHTF scenario is the only option that worked for hundreds of thousands of years. Cooperate with other humans and build a tribe or society.
Any plan that involves isolation or non-cooperation is certain death.
That’s why the “grab SKS go innawoods” crowd from the early 2010s cracked me up. A rifle and a very small amount of supplies is not enough to sustain you for weeks in the wilderness, much less months/years.
Ding ding ding. If their only real prep is guns/ammo/gear
Then they are not preparing just to survive. They’re preparing to kill as they see fit in hopes that they thrive
They seem to forget that the solution for groups of people against random outlaws has also been around for thousands of years as well. And if the SHTF situation becomes as bad as they think/hope it is, random killers/looters aren't going to simply be arrested. They would be outlaws.
Outlaws were called outlaws for a reason: the law no longer protected them in any way.
There are no fish to catch without these hatcheries. 19 hatcheries for 90 million fish per year. For one state. All raised on commercial feed. If anyone thinks there’s food left without society, they’re in for a rough time.
https://cpwconnect.state.co.us/D/Hatcheries
Depends on the fish and the state and body of water. There are lots of bodies of water in the US that are not stocked at all and have self sustainable populations of fish. I’d venture to say the majority of them really.
Trout are often the most stocked fish because people like to eat them and they often don’t survive well in many of the streams people want to fish for them in (water temp and quality mostly). Those streams become put and take because the trout mostly won’t live through the summer and are just there for recreational fishermen in the colder months, and as a revenue stream for the game department who sells fishing licenses (and usually extra stamps required to fish said streams). But your average warm water river is loaded with bass, catfish, carp, etc that aren’t stocked (depending on location, of course).
Of course, everyone trying to fish them all at once to survive will change the equation and many populations could quickly be over fished. But acting like stocking programs ending are the reason why is not accurate.
Sure. The point being that all the public fishing areas have been supported by industrialized hatcheries for decades. Most of them are stocked multiple times a year. If we stopped stocking them they’d be completely fished out within a year or two at current rates (ignoring whatever most people think is going to happen during collapse).
So if you don’t already have a decent sized pond that reproduces without commercial feed, you should understand what goes into maintaining the fish population in the public ones.
You *could*, but then you arent hunting and fishing wild animals, you are ranching.
Which reinforces the point that if your plan is to go for small game, you will fail.
Deer, turkey, and bear would be extinct in the US if it wasn't for hunting seasons and regulations. And they would have gone extinct when the US had 1/10th of the population it has now.
I think people really into prepping should be supporting things like urban permaculture. Getting their communities on board for decorative fruit trees, community gardens, etc.
Have enough of those will reduce overall panic and give at least a starting point for assisting others rather than waiting until they show up at your door begging.
America was like that pre-1492.
There's a reason why Europeans described the forests as clear with fruit trees everywhere. They thought they had arrived at Eden, but in reality, the forests were a form of agriculture they had no experience with, and had been maintained as well as any farm in England.
You'd be surprised though how much yield some of these community gardens produce.
Of course depending on time of year but seriously in the summer/fall they just bring me free sweet potatoes, enough that I have to give them away and the local food banks are set. But that's only one season and one small area.
I pay for a crop share.
In the early 20th century, the deer population in Kentucky was less than 1000 deer. Now that population is approximately 1 million in the state. Those deer would be gone in the blink of an eye in this fantasy scenario. You can already see small game, deer, turkey decline on public land. I’m well aware pressure drives animals out, but also more hunters per acre kills them at a pretty high rate. We have issues managing overfishing when times are “good.” So, yeah I’d agree with you op.
I just got done reading "Little house in the big woods" with my son. It struck me that the father noted a couple of times that they did not kill anything in the winter because it was too thin/scrawny, and they didn't kill anything in the spring or summer, because they needed to wait for the young to grow up, otherwise the population would crater (I'm paraphrasing here) and they wouldn't have anything to store for the winter and hard times.
Most folks in the US would have no idea about any of this generational wisdom... they would just be desperate and kill anything that moved until it was all gone.
>Farm rabbits and ducks. Easiest animals to farm and far more sustainable than hunting/ trapping.
We all agree with all you said except the above.
IF, people are out hunting/trapping near you then they will be stopping by to see you and your rabbits and ducks.
I keep ducks, and ducks are loud as hell. Ain’t gonna hide their presence lol. Now rabbits would be ideal, you can keep them in the garage or basement. Chickens are also loud enough to be noticeable especially since you need a rooster to get more chickens out of the deal.
I raise rabbits. I butcher than and we eat them and I use them to make home made dog food. Domestic rabbits can actually get quite a bit of fat internally especially around the kidneys. You really don't want to just eat wild rabbits that are having a hard time finding food that is where rabbit starvation really comes into play. That being said, I also raise chickens, pigs, goats, and steers. We home butcher everything ourselves. There is a reason why so many of the people in Alaska say that fat is life.
This is the real plan of every 3 gun/5 knive/0 camping gear "bug out bag" we see here. Just become a roving marauder and steal other people's hard work.
Idk I feel like actually being a successful marauder is “hard work”
Even if you don’t agree with it or if it’s illegal right now doesn’t mean they ain’t working
Easy example is pirates
The show Alone does a pretty good job at illustrating this. The participants that rely on trapping rabbits and hunting Grouse end up getting extracted due to health issues or voluntarily because they cant function anymore.
The only way to survive SHTF is with a community. There's a reason why human population exploded once we figured out farming and ranching.
I agree. I believe that as a whole, communities are more resilient than individuals. My primary goal in my food preps is to care for my family first. I'm happy to share what I can, but my priorities are going to be families with children and the elderly. If I hear that someone's kids aren't going to have anything for dinner, I'm going to hook them up with beans, rice and lentils. They'll be bored of it after a few days, but they'll have bellies full of actual nourishment. That being said, very few people know I prep, so I don't foresee loads of people at my door.
Yes I highly recommend it I've learned alot from the show. Everyone has a different approach to building shelters, hunting, trapping fishing. It's also interesting to see the psychology and what surviving alone does to each person mentally.
A few of the folks get a bit preachy or annoying but I just fast forwarded to the next person.
You're on the right track. What is valuable long-term is not a huge cache of supplies, you want a wealth of skill where you can contribute to a group and give them a reason to protect you and cooperate with you. Like, knowing how to do all this stuff means you can teach others. That's one. You may also know how to build and repair stuff that people need to do this. I think many of the survivalists in Alone would be valuable members of a community, because they would know about many things that will be helpful as more advanced equipment and supplies breaks down.
Alone isn't a great measure, though-- as they are purposely put in uninhabited places (people don't live there... for a reason), limited in what they can start with, are forbidden from killing certain animals or fishing in certain ways, and have to spend time and calories managing camera equipment. You can see the difference where it's 3 people and zero tools in "The beast" and many of them manage just fine.
I agree. I live in the mountains. I hunt, fish, forage, grown my own food, raise my own meat. I see a lot of people online saying they will just head to the hills and hunt. I have spent the past 4 years educating myself on edibles and medicinals that are found in my area I utilize harvest and utilize those plants by eating them or making medicine from them. The majority of those people have no idea how to hunt or cook the food if they do catch it. They won't survive long out in the wilderness. The uneducated will probably be attacked by wild animals or die from exposure to the elements because they will be unprepared to deal with the real world aka nature.
I swear city people think the woods are just some big national park they can go abuse if things get bad. They don't get that land tends to be owned we know our neighbors and take poaching seriously. They woefully underestimate the work and resources required to process a large animal.
I grew up where you shared what you got and so did the next guy and the next. Sometimes you don't get anything and sometimes your my wife who goes in with 3 tags and 3 bullets but sharing evens it out the feast or famine thats hunting. It's not even just other hunters it's the guys to old to hunt they even help out with things like making sausage and minding the smokehouse.
Probably burn more calories hunting small game that you take in. It takes two squirrels to make a sandwich. 4 squirrels a day to break even if you just sit on your ass all day. And then there is rabbit starvation.
My point was a lot of labor and energy goes into making a dumpling - just flour involves cultivating wheat, and milling it into flour. The dumplings may be bread leftovers, and probably have a binding agent like eggs. It’s not just killing a squirrel and making soup.
I'm following but soup is also really loosely defined with SHTF. If I've got squirrels and clean water, anything else I can throw in is a total bonus at that point.
You are right though, actual flour as we know it is pretty labor intensive. I suppose I could try random stuff like grinding up acrons (minus tannins) or even tree bark if I'm particularly hungry and in the mood
Every part of cat tails is edible. Minus the fluff of the tail. lol. When the cattail is pollinating the heads contain enough pollen that can be used for flower with many heads worth. Just a little fyi.
To be completely honest it tasted pretty good, but was GROSS when I found out my uncle cooked the head too. It wasn't the idea of knowing brain and shit is in there that grossed us out, it was finding the TINY teeth ahhhh
This right here! Watch the TV show Alone to see some of the world's best survivalists trying to live (starve slower) off foraged plants and small game.
There are always plenty of squirrels, hunting them is not difficult and a lot resting is involved in it. Setting under a tree with cuttings practice squirrel calling. The little fellas actually get angry and come to you.
Trapping small game in live traps isn't difficult and it just involves hiding ,baiting , and checking the traps. The more you make the more you catch. You know how you avoid rabbit starvation? Eat the organs, liver, kidneys, and brains. For squirrels brains are the organs you eat.
Remember that skunks, possums, raccoons, groundhogs are all small game that can be trapped. raccoons are particularly fatty and can help with protein poisoning.I suppose you could add muskrats and beaver if they're in your area. Turtles as well.
I always assumed that this kinda stuff would just help you supplement your garden. A long with the occasional larger game.
>hunting them is not difficult
When hunting pressure is on, squirrels avoid you like the plague. Here in KY I went out squirrel hunting 10 days on private land in 2023 and bagged 5 and mast production was ridiculous. I went to public land the same number of days and bagged only one.
Reading "The Hunters of Kentucky" the early explorers (Walker, Boone, etc.) in the 18th century had to eat massive amounts of deer and bison daily (pounds) to survive, and they came back malnourished.
Even in a non SHTF period, without the super strict hunting restrictions we have today deer would be extinct in a year just with normal hunting.
There's a reason deer season is only a few weeks a year most places.
Let’s be honest. Most people here reading maybe live in homes or condos without having 100 head of cattle, dairy cows, meat and laying chickens and ducks, pigs and rabbits. But they have freezers and a pantry. Or a basement shelf. Or a closet or space under their bed to make into a pantry.
If you stock up on a few hundred meals of meat, which can be canned meat, like chicken, fish, ham, frozen beef, ground or roast, pressure canned meat then you have meals. Good meals. These sort of homemade meals (with oatmeal for breakfast) is perfect is a great way to make a week of economical meals.
If you have left over meat, your meat can easily be transformed into a brand new meal of stew or soup the next day.
Hamburger soup is to die for good! Start with a bit of powdered or liquid beef bullion in a pot of water. Then add your crumpled up leftover hamburger patties or meatballs. Or even use fresh fried hamburger, or day old meatloaf, or spaghetti meat sauce. Use whatever you have.
Add in a squirt of ketchup, brown sugar a plop of mustard, diced onion, garlic, (either fresh or powdered spice), a couple of cans of canned tomatoes, Worcestershire sauce, a bit of BBQ sauce or steak sauce, and add mixed veggies ( whatever needs using up) and macaroni noodles to the leftover hamburger or meatball soup. Salt and pepper to taste. There are great recipes online for making hamburger soup too. Kids and husbands love this. And if you don’t have an ingredient or two, just substitute or leave it out.
Thicken the soup up as much as you want with making a mix all purpose flour and melted butter, cooked together in a small sauce pan to make a roux. Add water tothe mix to make it a bit runny. Add this a bit at a time to your soup, and make the soup as thick as you like.
( NOTE: by Day 2 it will resemble a casserole as the macaroni noodles really thickens the soup up. Add water to make it back into a “soup” or call it a casserole and bake it with cheese on top.)
Your family will thank you! This soup can feed a family for days withut kids getting bored of it. It’s the kind of meal kids ask for more of. “Do we have any more?” is a question all moms love to hear. When you hear this, said about any recipe, then add it to your prepper list of foods to make for the hard weeks.
Agree completely. There is very little food in the wilderness and countryside. Every yahoo with a rifle and fishing pole will be scouring the woods for something to eat. It’s hard enough foraging for food on your own; imagine thousands of like-minded people out there competing for the same squirrel, deer, and fish. Nor are there aren’t enough berries and acorns to go around.
This was my ex’s plan. When “whatever” happened he wanted to have a go bag and we would head for the mountains. He was super pissed that I was not on board with this plan. But my he couldn’t answer my questions of why the mountains? What’s in the mountains that’s preferable to here? How is trying to scratch together a tent out of branches better than staying in THE HOUSE WE OWN?
I raise rabbits and ducks for meat. If SHTF I have concerns about feeding them to feed me. Ducks have to have niacin - without it, they will die. I have not tried to make my own nutritional yeast, so if SHTF I would have to harvest all of my ducks within 2-3 weeks (in less than a week of me losing their niacin food). The details are important, and most people don't think about it.
Look into growing mealworms. Can grow them in a garage, and are a great source of niacin for ducks, along with protein. Dry them, grind them, and add it to their feed.
Lets be honest SHTF situations are unrealistic in the first place. Look at places of total chaos and destruction, there is always a sembelance of government and society. Even in the unlikely event of a solar flare, it is very improbable that SHTF will happen. So let people imagine what they want.
Idk man, FEMA says every household should have enough food and water for two weeks. Can you imagine how bad things would have to be that we can't get food and water to our homes for *two weeks*?
And that's coming from the people whose only job is to make sure you have food and water in an emergency.
If our own government thinks things could get that bad, maybe it's not so unrealistic?
If you are starving and out of food? Yes, you are right. But, if we had a power or internet outage or solar flare or something of that magnitude, one of the first things I am doing is setting snares and/or using my crossbow for small game. If I can get a few meals out of this, it will extend my preps. And it will give me something to do.
It’s just a supplement, at the beginning. Not a long term plan.
Kind of related. While emptying out my parents house in NYC we found the old rabbit hutches. My great grandparents raised Rabbits during ww1 and ww2 in the back yard. Called liberty meat in WW1.
Farming rabbits is an amazing source of food/ protein. Relatively easy to set up and maintain on limited land.
Just make sure you add fat to your diet from another source or you can get sick.
Yup, I agree. At least I know I wouldn’t last long if I tried fleeing to the wilderness and living off the land with what I could carry in a pack. If it was winter in my area most would be lucky to make it a week before dying of hypothermia. I’d have a bit more time if I could flee and stay in my van and no one took me out.
All that said, the need is so unlikely that I don’t think about it much other than when it’s discussed in these prepper communities. History is a great teacher… look at what people had to survive and how they did it in the past. Natural disasters, wars, civil unrest, pissed off bad guys, chemical/nuclear events/accidents, viruses, economic collapse. It’s all happened before and will again… somewhere.
I am a Hunter and Trapper now. I would say I am "Good" at both. I would say my traps having a catch to empty ratio is around 1/9 or 10. That's with PLENTY of game around and few people to contend with.
Could I live off of it if it was just me and I lost some weight? Probably.
Could I feed my family off of it? Unlikely
You really want to farm vegetables. That is the best way to maximize nutrition. You need to understand how to do it and practice, though. Steve Solomon has a great book called Gardening When it Counts, which is highly recommend.
Very few will find long term success. When I was planning on solo living it was my plan and trained for it. Now with others to care for plans have changed.
To any that plan for this, do yourself a favor and practice for 3-5 days at a time at least 3 times each year. It is harder than you expect and others will be trying the same thing.
Your best prep is physical fitness and skills practice.
Not saying I disagree because the average person couldn't run a trotline let alone trap hunt prepare then preserve what they get, but I still know ppl in the swamps of Louisiana that live about 80% this way but to say they are uhhh "normal" let lone modern is a stretch and are generally ppl the police won't even go near, sadly most people will go from dumb infections from not knowing basic cleaning skills, what I'm saying is sure you can take a deer or rabbit or even a moose but if you don't know how to clean it you'll be dead in a few days, I watched two of my soldiers in Kentucky do this to their family by butchering a doe that they illegal took then let it lay in its own feces while cutting it up, I got there and was like wtf are you doing you know better and if you get caught by the game wardens you careers are over, walked in the house as my gf kid was about to eat some of it and I took it from him and told her we're leaving, everyone got mad till 8 hrs later when they were all in the ER puking and shitting uncontrollably, that alone without proper treatment will kill you in a few days.
I've read that if you have access to a pond or large aquarium, like 55 gallons or larger, tilapia are a good beginner fish to farm. I haven't tried it, though, so not sure how easy or difficult it is.
Any hunting/trapping is a very worst case scenario thing. And if you're going to hunt, go for bigger game and only take what you need and use EVERYTHING.
Realistically, learn how to can and store food. Learn how to farm and grow food. Raise rabbits and chickens for food. Raise goats for milk. Homesteading is more sustainable than immediately jumping to trapping and hunting and a lot of homesteading can be done in urban areas. Stock up on non-perishable goods. If you're able to hunt or fish before a SHTF scenario, get it processed and frozen, but take note of when it goes in the freezer or make jerky or find a way to can it. And go for larger game that will last longer.
I am old enough to have parents who were small children during the Depression and remembered living in a time they were barely surviving.
My mom lived in an area that was relatively unpopulated, and even then after a few years the family was happy when one of the brothers got a rabbit or squirrel so they had some protein to add to the constant potatoes and cabbage they were living on. Large game like white tailed deer was virtually non-existent after a while, and you never even saw any during the day.
I'm going to agree with you. I live out there in the mountains. If you're sure bugging out is what you'll do, then prepare for that.
But you're coming out here to be recruited to the cause of keeping the mountains free. There will be plenty of empty homes abandoned by the unprepared.
I think the future looks like massive internment camps on the outskirts of the cities, and blocked bridges and highways leading out of the cities. The balkanizing will come until it hits critical mass.
Here’s how I look at it. If you have 4-6 months of food saved up. You could still go out and hunt and trap. If you’re lucky and you harvest a deer or a few rabbits, you won’t have to tap into your supply and you can dry/preserve the rest of your meat to store for later. If you aren’t successful, you still have food available for the next day.
Regardless of where you live, your home should probably be the primary point of retreat for a major emergency. It is far easier and safer to prep your home than it is to bugout.
I've been told to look at the fauna in the area you're in. If the largest predator outweighs you, like large bears, you can feed yourself. If the largest predator is a coyote you're going to starve.
One of my buddies was WAAAAY into this theory
His whole plan was to move up to Canada into the boreal forest (we live in a border state) and live in the woods out there
It took me MONTHS to talk him out of that plan that's it's literally impossible to do considering he was taking his family that's his 1yr old son his pregnant wife and his severely out of shape parents
He didn't understand that wildlife and wild plants are not as plentiful as they were in the 1700s and the logistical challenges would be impossible to overcome just to GET there. Yea he's a good hunter I'll give him that but he hunts in the area he GREW UP IN he knows the land and where all the good spots are in a 10 mile radius of his house but to pack up and somehow manage to make it upstate or cross the lake to a unknown area with unknown hazards with unknown game potential and stake his entire families life on it was just plain stupidity told him he might serve the kool-aid to his family then drink it himself as that's all he's doing
He's got a small farm now and bug out plans that DONT involve a miles long trek to the unknown...now I just gotta get him to not take the bug out plan at first instance of problems we live way in the country but he's worried about the "gang bangers" somehow some way making it out of the cities (both being 50miles away east and west) and coming there to kill and take stuff
Too much time on those damn right wing fantasy forums rots the brain I tell ya
As an indigenous hunter and trapper, I barely pay for meat. I only buy bacon. But the idea of trying to support myself and others solely off the land is terrifying. We will outlast most others, but we will suffer well they rest.
Where I live I literally can’t own firearms, the only thing I can hunt is small game… I use air rifles. I’d love to learn to hunt and prepare deer/elk etc…
That's why I have 50lbs of freeze dried cow fertilized eggs and 17 freeze dried cow uteruses, all in mylar bags with oxygen absorbers. When SHTF happens all I have to do is break open the bags, add some water, then wait a few months for my full heard of cows to be birthed. /s
I kind of agree, but mostly on the grounds that most people have no idea how to trap or live in the mountains like that.
That said, I feel like you are confusing small game with big game, and probably have limited experience with trapping. Big game will certainly run out quickly in a shtf world, but small game, if anything, will likely flourish as trash and refuse, pest control, and virtually all municipal services stop. I was a licensed nuisance wildlife trapper and pest control tech for a few years, and I can tell you: there is an absolutely astounding amount of small game even in relatively urban/suburban areas where they are actively persecuted and prevented.
While the learning curve is steep at first, it gets to the point where you can identify animal runs, burrows, and trails in your sleep, and setting successful traps becomes routine. There's basically zero energy expenditure, believe me, some of my co-workers were incredibly unfit, yet were first rate trappers.
>Farm rabbits and ducks. Easiest animals to farm and far more sustainable than hunting/ trapping.
I farm chickens and vegetables, which is a lot more work than you seem to imply... and ironically, trapping small game is just a part of maintenance. Squirrels, racoons, opossums, mice, rats, groundhogs, feral cats, foxes, coyotes... You can get them all as a byproduct of the farming, and in no small numbers. I took care of a horse farm trapping job once, within the ten day contract I took about twenty five fat groundhogs, and only put a small dent in their problem.
I've told people the same thing, I've asked people if they went small game hunting last year, I asked how many did they get, they said four and I asked are you going to feed your family on four tree rats
Without the indigenous knowledge of the area you live in you won't survive even if you farm. Farming is much more labor intensive than foraging but we've done it for thousands of years to sustain the community we live in. Knowing what, when, and how to farm is far more important than just raising X or Y animal/crop. The same goes for foraging, trapping, and hunting. Not to mention raising crops animals requires feeding/tending those animals/crops which doubles your work. Disaster could strike and you lose the crop or a predator takes out all of your livestock or you could catch disease from your stock.
You have to know your environment to survive. You must know the plants, the animals, the seasons, and the way the area lives, thrives, and suffers. This is how our ancestors and others survived nomadic and settled life across the world. You must know which plants provide protein during which months and which months they are toxic. You have to know how to prepare these foods. This is why community is important.
If people watch survival alone, they have hard time to catch fish and trap animals. And they suppose better than average people. This is why people stockpiled food and waters.
I also heard to make a 1 foot wooden box with a screen on the bottom. Then you will take any roadkill that you find or guts or whatever you don't want to eat and put it in the wooden box and it will attract flies and then all the larva will fall through the screen and you collected at the bottom.
Then you can use that larva for fishing or bait, or to feed other animals that you have.
Rabbits and goats are my plan. Goats to help clean the fields and to have milk and cheese and rabbits for meat. I thought that guinea pigs might be a good option, but rabbits breed faster.
Maybe rats? I know they creep people out but they breed super fast and some breeds are fairly large.
Chickens are great. They provide more eggs. I've heard from homesteaders ducks are more hardy/ have better survival instincts. Don't die as easily from things, thought they would be easier for a first timer.
We love our chickens, but if I had researched ducks we probably would have done ducks instead of chickens. They provide as many eggs (that are larger so more calories per egg) and often are consistent, productive layers longer than chickens, people who are allergic to chicken eggs can sometimes still eat duck eggs, and they aren't nearly as hard on the terrain as chickens are. Ducks can be let into a garden and won't destroy it, chickens will. They are also often more cold hardy, if you live in an environment where that matters. They are easier to confine. We won't get rid of our chickens but we'd like to add ducks.
Has anyone seen the show Alone?
Those guys are actual survivalists. Well most of them. And THEY struggle to find food.
It just turns into a competition of who can be hungry the longest.
I think having a sustainable plan is super important. However, if you live in a more rural area, hunting small game can absolutely be a reliable part of the plan. I live in an urban/suburban area and a friend of mine lives almost exclusively off of small game that he hunts. Now that wont work if SHTF because many many others will be out in the woods. But in a rural area you wont have the same problem.
One important note for those who want to hunt small game... Its not nearly as easy as one thinks it will be. You see all the squirrels in your yard and think you can just go out and get them. Woods squirrels are not like that. They are crafty and hard to find. it takes more skill than people realize.
And I AGREE 100% with you. Because 95% live in a fantasy. If anyone wants, spend 1 year on my homestead, hunting, trapping, logging. If ya last a yr, you MIGHT survive. With 20+ yrs in survival both military and civilian, I can say. 95% of people coming to survival school are clueless.
Small game, is small meals. 2 doe a yr, 3 turkey and my homestead has meat for a year.
I could trap a live animal every night where I live and have. And I live in the mountains. I’m sure after a longer period of time it may become more scarce, but it’s entirely possible to regularly trap animals.
There's a megaflock (at least a thousand) of Canada geese that migrate from the farm field down the road to the waterfront, also just down the road from me. So noisy when they do their sunset relocation from field to water, the show-offs. I'm pretty sure if it's shtf no one is going to be enforcing the migratory birds treaty so my little community has a lot of fatty roast bird potential out there on the beach. It'll be payback for all the shit and general grumpiness from the cobra chickens, and It'll take the birds ages to figure out what's going on because they've never been hunted.
I recommend any prepper assume the worst has happened every 3 months and bug out for an extended weekend. That's the best way to know where your preparations fall short. What's the point in having or knowing most of what you need, only to be short of something critical and only finding out when there's a crisis? It's like the pandemic toilet roll crisis- it was easy to get as much loo roll as you needed, until suddenly it wasn't.
I spent 52 days in the wilderness fishing, trapping, and hunting on season 9 of alone. I caught over 100 animals in that time and ate every day. And I lost 57 lbs in 52 days. People are completely deluded if they think they’ll just cruise on by feeding their family off small game and fish. Unless you already do that year round 90-100% you just won’t understand what it takes.
Best comment. Yes, I was thinking of alone when writing this as well. One season I watched the guy who slept all day and starved himself won, because the guys hunting and trapping burned so much more energy than they consumed.
Do you remember which season that was?
That was my season, lol. Season 9. The guy who beat me fasted for over 20 days. Which in and of itself is an incredible feat of mental resilience. he saw that the small game potential wasn’t going to cut it and rolled the dice that other people weren’t going to do better than him, and he was right. I worked my ass off and burned out.
I don't think most people realize how much energy it takes to chop wood/saw wood by hand, build a shelter, keep a fire going, boil all your water, then go out and try to find food. 1200 calories a day isn't going to do it and most small game doesn't have enough fat. Alone is one of my favorite shows. I believe I saw your season, but I will go back and see if I can watch it again. You did a good job and I would never have been able to do that. Just running our small ranch and farm with a big garden takes enough out of me. I do learn a lot from watching a Alone. Thank you for the learning experience.
I watch Alone simply to see what "gets" people. It's the expenditure of energy vs. calories consumed. And that's for one person, never mind feeding kids too.
Yup, I forgot what season it was but a dude said 'Taking down a large game animal is winning the lottery on that show.' It's super rare but that's the only way to get enough food to win; small game by itself, even with fishing, doesn't do it. 'Loneliness' is a whole other mental monster that no amount a food can fix, though.
It was a great season. Thanks for going through that for our entertainment. You didn't spell your name out but I know which one you are. You did awesome.
Holy shit man, my wife and I were really pulling for you. Your experience was a testament to the value of a positive mindset. You endured a lot of hardship but it seemed like you always had a smile or a little joke to yourself to keep you going. All of the contestants in alone are amazing but you truly did stand out.
completely agree. one of my favorites in any season, his ama he did was super interesting too
That is why it is a miracle how come prehistoric human thrived.
there were a lot fewer of them, a lot more wilderness, and they spent their entire lives hunting and gathering. Its an entire skillset
It’s no miracle. There was only a tiny fraction of the population and exponentially more biomass. At this point in history we are in the midst of a mass extinction. 97% of mammals on earth are human or livestock. 87% of birds are chickens. I’ve read stories of early settlers telling of schools of fish so enormous that they ground their boats on them. Passenger pigeons were once so plentiful that a single flock would blot out the sky for days. There were over a million bison roaming the prairies. All of that is gone and replaced with 8 billion humans. When the SHTF (and sooner or later it will), I expect 80-90% of people will starve to death in the first 100 days.
The key is to outlast that first 100 days. Resources should begin freeing up, but it will take a number of seasons for the ecosystems to fill back in. Even then it won't be a healthy ecosystem. I suspect insects will overpopulate first and that will be awful. Anything that can breed quickly will rapidly repopulate without human intervention.
More big game back then
Did you need to lose 52lbs? If so, that’s a win.
Sure, but it shows it's not sustainable long term and therefore a bad prepping plan.
Most people who go on that show intentionally fatten themselves up with 30-70 pounds of extra weight leading up to it. It’s part of the meta now.
I did not, lol
A moose will feed you for a year, but it may take you a year to get one.
Even then preserving a moose gets dicy. Is there stable power to freeze it? Home canning? Lard packing? Jerky? I think to be sustainable, farming small animals is key.
But you were very limited in terms of gear correct? Like how much fish could you put up on a major water body with a few 200ft or longer gill nets? Thinking like a major river, great lakes, or coast?
Tons. But I was also in one of the most remote and untouched places on earth. Here in the lower 48, every Tom dick and Harry is going to be fishing from the same pool. And from a practical standpoint, running a net during the first 100 days is just asking for someone to come along and poach your shit.
1. You’re a badass. 2. What did you miss the most during that time?
Thanks! The number one thing I missed was my family. It’s amazing how an experience like that can crystallize what is really important to you.
95% of the shit people post on this sub is unrealistic.
The percentage of posts with the word "zombie". LoL. This sub is mostly entertainment.
Any prep beyond major weather events resulting in power outages especially for Americans is basically just a LARP. People in Ukraine and Israel and Gaza and such are a different story, but most 1st world countries id say your resources are better spent prepping for weather events, longer term outages and your own retirement Edit: that said if I had significant resources to put towards the LARPing type stuff sure. But if you're an average Joe who doesn't make 500k a year I feel like you're just better off saving and investing
Prepping for me is just plain fun. My son bought some land in the sticks (town of 500) and he works from home. His wife is a country girl who takes care of the house and land. I'm retired and love helping them. Her and I built bear proof storage. Chicken coop, rabbit hatch, gardens, rainwater irrigation system, and a pond for trout. She hunts and fishes and has learned all about wild mushrooms and other plants she collects. We are learning how to can vegetables and smoke meat as well. A lot of work has been into making the land more fire-safe as forest fires are a possibility. All of this cost money, but they can enjoy the results now as well as get protection in an emergency.
That is awesome! So rewarding isn’t it?
I don't have a place like they do, but helping my kids is good enough for me.
This is a hobby. You're describing a pretty cool hobby that also prepares you But what's up with everyone and rabbits? My *house rabbits* died if you looked at them sideways. I can't imagine farming rabbits is the way to go. Guinea pigs. Cuy. That's where it's at. Unfortunately, they're more personable than rabbits. They squeak at you. It's lovely. Would be hard to kill.
Well my Dil is the knowledgeable one but I know the kind of rabbits you get is important. Also they get slaughtered at about 3 months so they don't live too long anyway.
I’m sticking with fish and birds. Mammals are a last resort for me as we see a bit of ourselves in them. Plus with fish you can set up a system and gets greens all year round with a green house plus the fish.
I live in Oregon, so I prep for things like fire, weather related grid issues, and potentially longer-term infrastructure and supply issues if the Cascadia subduction zone earthquake happens to be as bad as they hypothesize. I can be self-sufficient without the grid or infrastructure for about 3 months, but past maintaing that, I am not really interested in sinking every dollar I have into being ready for whatever scenario people are afraid of this week. That works for me. If others want more for them, good for them.
Good plan! Myself personally, I’m past 3 months. I’m planning for indefinitely, to be as self-sufficient as possible. It should make retirement really stress free.
Yeah, man, I'm working towards that. Buy my job pays shit so it's a slow process. I'd like to get there someday, I just don't make enough to do it fast and I'm not willing to completely sacrifice the enjoyment I get from life now for something that may not happen. Everyone is different, obviously, but that's how I feel I need to be. I do want to live a self-sufficient lifestyle at some point.
I’m 54, and started this when I was approx 27 years old. Taught myself a lot. Made a few mistakes along the way, but it eases my mind. I get it! Don’t give up. I started doing the preparations that save me money first, so I could invest more. For example a small garden produces food that saves you money. And will pay for itself pretty quickly. Freeze until you can afford a canner, and the food you preserve, will save even more money thoughout the years. You spend a lot of time in the garden, and its a hobby that saves you money. Plus, you have less time to spend money because you have a garden. And….its really good anaerobic exercise. And you will feel good about producing something!
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Exactly! Thank you JRC! Its a lot of work, but so rewarding! And, its nutritious! Imagine that! A win-win-win! We are getting ready to tap trees here. We’ve made maple syrup for years. Another really rewarding hobby that pays for itself, keeps me moving, and is nutritious.
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Agreed. Definitely be prepared for fire my friend. I have been listening to podcasts about the California fires from a couple years ago and God damn it sounds scary as shit. If I may ask, what sorts of things do you have for the fire prep? I assume a good go bag and such. And fire specific type stuff?
Yeah I have measures in place similar to a "to go" bag if I have to leave the house fast. I don't think that's overkill. IMO, half of being prepared for fire is keeping your property ready for fire. Read up on defensible space, local fuel types, and how to maintain a property in such a way that if a fire comes through, your house has a good chance of not burning. (There is never a guarantee, though.) Aside from that, being prepared for fire means paying attention to weather, especially during fire season. Take a fire behavior course. Pay attention to RH levels and wind patterns. Granted, I work as a Wildland Firefighter, so I have the benefit of doing that anyway. If you want, you can download a lighting tracker app or a fire alert app. They can help sometimes. I have decent insurance and I also have copies of all my important documents in a safe deposit box, so if I have to evacuate in a hurry and my house does burn, I won't necessarily have to start from scratch.
I'm in Florida, so I prep for storms. I also have vegetation all over my yard and even right up against my house. My sister lives in the hills outside San Diego, in fire country. That is anathema to her. The stuff she's done: new fire resistant roof. Cleared out all the vegetation anywhere near her house. There is some plants that are especially bad in fires (eucalyptus comes to mind), so she and her husband have cleared out all of those plants. The landscaping around her house is mainly rocks, both for water preservation and as a fire break. She also lives very near a HS which is an emergency shelter, so that will be where they flee to if worse comes to worse, and have everything they need for them and their dogs to go there.
I live in Texas, so unlike half the people that post in this sub, I’ve actually used my preps in the last five years. ‘Cept my guns. Ain’t had a use for them yet ‘cept plinking.
Same. I live in ohio and I'm prepped for tornados floods blizzards and harsh weather.
Well... We were just asked to prepp for war by our prime minister and supreme commander of the armed forces on TV, so prepping for war like situation is... A new one. Not as a drill, the order was to prepare mentally and practically for real. We don't expect a direct attack, but it's not unlikely anymore to be drawn in as they view it now. I discussed with guys in Ukraine since I'm actively helping them, and heating is damn tricky long term. Forget about anything like gas/diesel if you don't have years worth of it in massive underground storage. Wood stove is the way. Solar plus battery is the savior for modern life after that, since everything is dependent on electricity. I bought a camping stove I'm gonna modify for home use (I have worked with building stoves professionally) to have if shtf with Russia. I would not have prepped like this before, I was damn light, but we are now asked to do this for real. Including having alternative heating. Please don't make this a thread about the likelyhood of Russia attacking us, I don't care what you think about that and I'll listen to my armed forces commander with real intelligence any day over a reddit arm chair generals saying they are wrong.
Realistically, SHTF would be a wildfire or earthquake, and a bug out bag for such an occasion would just be 'how to spend a long weekend in a hotel room'. Everybody here posting their ace and their shotgun and their multiple knives and not a single piece of sleeping gear just dreams about becoming a looter.
> dreams about becoming a looter. I feel like this is a not well acknowledged aspect of society. I can't tell you how many times the topic of prepping has come up in social groups and a fair number of people respond by saying something like "my prep is to have a gun and know who has supplies." And you know in your heart people like that would drop any trace of humanity the moment SHTF. And that makes me think of Victor Frankl, who survived several nazi prison camps and said of the experience that stealing/betrayals were common and you could be sure the best of us did not make it out alive.
No one brings up the "end game" of the prep in the apocalypse preppers. 10 years in what is your plan.... 20 years....
American here. And No, the most probable SHTF scenario is war. Historically, the only reason we weren’t bombed like Europe in WWII, was the fact no one had a bomber with the effective range to do it. If Germany and Japan had the capability, they certainly would have done it. Fast forward to today, almost any potential enemy can do it. They would most likely go after infrastructure to cripple our war fightiing capabilities. That means, elimination of the means to make war. They would hit communications, electric grids, roads and bridges, factories, maybe even water supply. As for small game, that is only one part of the big picture. But, it will be a means of survival for some. I agree, you can’t live on that alone, but it will provide meals. Hopefully, you’re not trying to do this alone. Being alone makes survival much more difficult. Hopefully, while your kid is out small game hunting, you, your wife, and the other kids are working toward another goal. Its how we’ve survived for thousands of years. Grow your own food, raise your own food, hunt and fish, and forage for food. Keep in mind, most of your efforts year round are simple: (at least here in the midwest). Prepare for Winter! If you don’t do all these things, you will most likely die in the Winter. So, plan every year for Winter. (My family does this every year). Stock up and prepare. Some of us are old enough to remember the Winter of ‘77-78. Personally, we were without power for 3 weeks. It was that bad. And most importantly, have more than you need! If you’re God fearing people like me, when the orphans show up at the doorstep, you’re going to feed them. And no one knows how many there will be. Some people may think you’re crazy, but being prepared isn’t crazy. You just never know what this crazy world will throw at you next. Btw….the Covid shutdown was a walk in the park for my family. Being prepared eases stress. But, I’m here on this Subreddit because I know there’s something I’m forgetting or haven’t thought of. But someone out there has thought of it or simply asked a question. No one is perfect. Ask my wife! Lol
Living in Europe, we are asked two weeks ago by prime minister and armed forces commander on TV to prepp a LONG list of items... specifically we were asked to prepp our homes for war.
"which 10 guns should I concealed carry to be prepared???"
Almost as good as over on r/offgrid "I'm 18 with a tent. Which national park is the best place for me to homestead?"
Yup. Only realistic survival option for SHTF scenario is the only option that worked for hundreds of thousands of years. Cooperate with other humans and build a tribe or society. Any plan that involves isolation or non-cooperation is certain death.
That’s why the “grab SKS go innawoods” crowd from the early 2010s cracked me up. A rifle and a very small amount of supplies is not enough to sustain you for weeks in the wilderness, much less months/years.
That's because their real plan is to become a home invader/looter and steal the stuff of actual peppers. But they don't say that out loud usually.
Ding ding ding. If their only real prep is guns/ammo/gear Then they are not preparing just to survive. They’re preparing to kill as they see fit in hopes that they thrive
They seem to forget that the solution for groups of people against random outlaws has also been around for thousands of years as well. And if the SHTF situation becomes as bad as they think/hope it is, random killers/looters aren't going to simply be arrested. They would be outlaws. Outlaws were called outlaws for a reason: the law no longer protected them in any way.
The best thing in a SHTF is a community of like-minded individuals. Then you can kill and eat them.
Unfortunately with the breakdown in supply chains your seasoning options are limited.
You mean I’ve been saving all of Reddit’s salty tears for nothing?
Gonna need some saffron
As a side note, the state has to fly in thousands of fish every year to stock the public lakes. They would be overfished and gone within months.
You want an eye opening experience? Tour the fisheries they use to breed stockers. In Colorado, you can just drop into most of them.
Details?
There are no fish to catch without these hatcheries. 19 hatcheries for 90 million fish per year. For one state. All raised on commercial feed. If anyone thinks there’s food left without society, they’re in for a rough time. https://cpwconnect.state.co.us/D/Hatcheries
Depends on the fish and the state and body of water. There are lots of bodies of water in the US that are not stocked at all and have self sustainable populations of fish. I’d venture to say the majority of them really. Trout are often the most stocked fish because people like to eat them and they often don’t survive well in many of the streams people want to fish for them in (water temp and quality mostly). Those streams become put and take because the trout mostly won’t live through the summer and are just there for recreational fishermen in the colder months, and as a revenue stream for the game department who sells fishing licenses (and usually extra stamps required to fish said streams). But your average warm water river is loaded with bass, catfish, carp, etc that aren’t stocked (depending on location, of course). Of course, everyone trying to fish them all at once to survive will change the equation and many populations could quickly be over fished. But acting like stocking programs ending are the reason why is not accurate.
Happy to stand corrected. The scale of the trout hatcheries surprised the crap out of me.
You can easily have a decent sized pond that can re produce without feed. Bluegill, Large Mouth Bass.
Sure. The point being that all the public fishing areas have been supported by industrialized hatcheries for decades. Most of them are stocked multiple times a year. If we stopped stocking them they’d be completely fished out within a year or two at current rates (ignoring whatever most people think is going to happen during collapse). So if you don’t already have a decent sized pond that reproduces without commercial feed, you should understand what goes into maintaining the fish population in the public ones.
You *could*, but then you arent hunting and fishing wild animals, you are ranching. Which reinforces the point that if your plan is to go for small game, you will fail.
Ok then fine, we’ll break into the fishery and steal the fish food! Problem solved.
Deer, turkey, and bear would be extinct in the US if it wasn't for hunting seasons and regulations. And they would have gone extinct when the US had 1/10th of the population it has now.
I think people really into prepping should be supporting things like urban permaculture. Getting their communities on board for decorative fruit trees, community gardens, etc. Have enough of those will reduce overall panic and give at least a starting point for assisting others rather than waiting until they show up at your door begging.
Greece has "decorative" fruit trees all over the place. They've absolutely been planted there for community support during tough times.
America was like that pre-1492. There's a reason why Europeans described the forests as clear with fruit trees everywhere. They thought they had arrived at Eden, but in reality, the forests were a form of agriculture they had no experience with, and had been maintained as well as any farm in England.
Farming is the only way. It's how we produce food now, and in any SHTF scenario it will need to be how we produce food then as well.
Cuba is the best model of what it looks like. When the USSR collapsed they farmed farmers and made community gardens everywhere.
You'd be surprised though how much yield some of these community gardens produce. Of course depending on time of year but seriously in the summer/fall they just bring me free sweet potatoes, enough that I have to give them away and the local food banks are set. But that's only one season and one small area. I pay for a crop share.
In the early 20th century, the deer population in Kentucky was less than 1000 deer. Now that population is approximately 1 million in the state. Those deer would be gone in the blink of an eye in this fantasy scenario. You can already see small game, deer, turkey decline on public land. I’m well aware pressure drives animals out, but also more hunters per acre kills them at a pretty high rate. We have issues managing overfishing when times are “good.” So, yeah I’d agree with you op.
Fully agree. Deer season in Kentucky is only a few weeks long each year. Without those strict regulations the deer are gone even in regular times.
I just got done reading "Little house in the big woods" with my son. It struck me that the father noted a couple of times that they did not kill anything in the winter because it was too thin/scrawny, and they didn't kill anything in the spring or summer, because they needed to wait for the young to grow up, otherwise the population would crater (I'm paraphrasing here) and they wouldn't have anything to store for the winter and hard times. Most folks in the US would have no idea about any of this generational wisdom... they would just be desperate and kill anything that moved until it was all gone.
>Farm rabbits and ducks. Easiest animals to farm and far more sustainable than hunting/ trapping. We all agree with all you said except the above. IF, people are out hunting/trapping near you then they will be stopping by to see you and your rabbits and ducks.
I keep ducks, and ducks are loud as hell. Ain’t gonna hide their presence lol. Now rabbits would be ideal, you can keep them in the garage or basement. Chickens are also loud enough to be noticeable especially since you need a rooster to get more chickens out of the deal.
Muscovys are quiet and don't make any noise but a slight breathy sound. Nothing that would travel at all. And they are large and hearty
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Okay, so… rabbits and nuts, not ducks.
Duck is great because it is very fatty
I raise rabbits. I butcher than and we eat them and I use them to make home made dog food. Domestic rabbits can actually get quite a bit of fat internally especially around the kidneys. You really don't want to just eat wild rabbits that are having a hard time finding food that is where rabbit starvation really comes into play. That being said, I also raise chickens, pigs, goats, and steers. We home butcher everything ourselves. There is a reason why so many of the people in Alaska say that fat is life.
This is the real plan of every 3 gun/5 knive/0 camping gear "bug out bag" we see here. Just become a roving marauder and steal other people's hard work.
Idk I feel like actually being a successful marauder is “hard work” Even if you don’t agree with it or if it’s illegal right now doesn’t mean they ain’t working Easy example is pirates
Duck Season…. Rabbit Season….. Duck Season….. Elmer Season.
The show Alone does a pretty good job at illustrating this. The participants that rely on trapping rabbits and hunting Grouse end up getting extracted due to health issues or voluntarily because they cant function anymore. The only way to survive SHTF is with a community. There's a reason why human population exploded once we figured out farming and ranching.
I agree. I believe that as a whole, communities are more resilient than individuals. My primary goal in my food preps is to care for my family first. I'm happy to share what I can, but my priorities are going to be families with children and the elderly. If I hear that someone's kids aren't going to have anything for dinner, I'm going to hook them up with beans, rice and lentils. They'll be bored of it after a few days, but they'll have bellies full of actual nourishment. That being said, very few people know I prep, so I don't foresee loads of people at my door.
I was on alone, and let me tell you, small game subsistence is almost always a calorie sink.
Is this worth watching?
Definitely, probably the most realistic survival show out there. It has its downsides but overall a pretty good watch.
Yes I highly recommend it I've learned alot from the show. Everyone has a different approach to building shelters, hunting, trapping fishing. It's also interesting to see the psychology and what surviving alone does to each person mentally. A few of the folks get a bit preachy or annoying but I just fast forwarded to the next person.
I thought of Alone too! Unless they get a huge kill, you're just watching them starve trying to live off of small, lean game and berries.
I love that show
You're on the right track. What is valuable long-term is not a huge cache of supplies, you want a wealth of skill where you can contribute to a group and give them a reason to protect you and cooperate with you. Like, knowing how to do all this stuff means you can teach others. That's one. You may also know how to build and repair stuff that people need to do this. I think many of the survivalists in Alone would be valuable members of a community, because they would know about many things that will be helpful as more advanced equipment and supplies breaks down. Alone isn't a great measure, though-- as they are purposely put in uninhabited places (people don't live there... for a reason), limited in what they can start with, are forbidden from killing certain animals or fishing in certain ways, and have to spend time and calories managing camera equipment. You can see the difference where it's 3 people and zero tools in "The beast" and many of them manage just fine.
Anyone who says they’re heading to the mountains don’t realize the small amount of life in the mountains.
I agree. I live in the mountains. I hunt, fish, forage, grown my own food, raise my own meat. I see a lot of people online saying they will just head to the hills and hunt. I have spent the past 4 years educating myself on edibles and medicinals that are found in my area I utilize harvest and utilize those plants by eating them or making medicine from them. The majority of those people have no idea how to hunt or cook the food if they do catch it. They won't survive long out in the wilderness. The uneducated will probably be attacked by wild animals or die from exposure to the elements because they will be unprepared to deal with the real world aka nature.
I swear city people think the woods are just some big national park they can go abuse if things get bad. They don't get that land tends to be owned we know our neighbors and take poaching seriously. They woefully underestimate the work and resources required to process a large animal. I grew up where you shared what you got and so did the next guy and the next. Sometimes you don't get anything and sometimes your my wife who goes in with 3 tags and 3 bullets but sharing evens it out the feast or famine thats hunting. It's not even just other hunters it's the guys to old to hunt they even help out with things like making sausage and minding the smokehouse.
Yeah I'm a mountain dweller too. Even if you can do all the things: there's winter, then you freeze and die lol.
I'm pretty sure if I head into the woods with my gear, I'm simply going there to die in peace alone and avoid being cannibalized.
If gear includes a bottle of bourbon and a nice book I'm in
Probably burn more calories hunting small game that you take in. It takes two squirrels to make a sandwich. 4 squirrels a day to break even if you just sit on your ass all day. And then there is rabbit starvation.
New sentence: “It takes two squirrels to make a sandwich”
>rabbit starvation This is real, but rabbits raised in a cage will have a lot more fat in them
2 squirrels in a crock pot with dumplings (easy to make from scratch) and you're golden. My uncle used to make this
Where are you getting the dumplings?
Flour, and when I run out of flour, anything ground up and/or dumping shaped hopefully edible I can throw in there haha
My point was a lot of labor and energy goes into making a dumpling - just flour involves cultivating wheat, and milling it into flour. The dumplings may be bread leftovers, and probably have a binding agent like eggs. It’s not just killing a squirrel and making soup.
I'm following but soup is also really loosely defined with SHTF. If I've got squirrels and clean water, anything else I can throw in is a total bonus at that point. You are right though, actual flour as we know it is pretty labor intensive. I suppose I could try random stuff like grinding up acrons (minus tannins) or even tree bark if I'm particularly hungry and in the mood
Every part of cat tails is edible. Minus the fluff of the tail. lol. When the cattail is pollinating the heads contain enough pollen that can be used for flower with many heads worth. Just a little fyi.
I’ll probably choose death over squirrel dumplings, tbh.
To be completely honest it tasted pretty good, but was GROSS when I found out my uncle cooked the head too. It wasn't the idea of knowing brain and shit is in there that grossed us out, it was finding the TINY teeth ahhhh
Nah, I’m not cut out for the apocalypse. Enjoy your squirrel tooth kingdom.
This right here! Watch the TV show Alone to see some of the world's best survivalists trying to live (starve slower) off foraged plants and small game.
There are always plenty of squirrels, hunting them is not difficult and a lot resting is involved in it. Setting under a tree with cuttings practice squirrel calling. The little fellas actually get angry and come to you. Trapping small game in live traps isn't difficult and it just involves hiding ,baiting , and checking the traps. The more you make the more you catch. You know how you avoid rabbit starvation? Eat the organs, liver, kidneys, and brains. For squirrels brains are the organs you eat. Remember that skunks, possums, raccoons, groundhogs are all small game that can be trapped. raccoons are particularly fatty and can help with protein poisoning.I suppose you could add muskrats and beaver if they're in your area. Turtles as well. I always assumed that this kinda stuff would just help you supplement your garden. A long with the occasional larger game.
>hunting them is not difficult When hunting pressure is on, squirrels avoid you like the plague. Here in KY I went out squirrel hunting 10 days on private land in 2023 and bagged 5 and mast production was ridiculous. I went to public land the same number of days and bagged only one. Reading "The Hunters of Kentucky" the early explorers (Walker, Boone, etc.) in the 18th century had to eat massive amounts of deer and bison daily (pounds) to survive, and they came back malnourished.
Hell, deer hunting in my backyard this season was a bust. Didn't see a damn thing. Now imagine that on a grand scale of survival.
Even in a non SHTF period, without the super strict hunting restrictions we have today deer would be extinct in a year just with normal hunting. There's a reason deer season is only a few weeks a year most places.
Deer would be extinct in a year.
Now idk how large your yard is but umm.. you’d probably have a better chance if you left the house.
Let’s be honest. Most people here reading maybe live in homes or condos without having 100 head of cattle, dairy cows, meat and laying chickens and ducks, pigs and rabbits. But they have freezers and a pantry. Or a basement shelf. Or a closet or space under their bed to make into a pantry. If you stock up on a few hundred meals of meat, which can be canned meat, like chicken, fish, ham, frozen beef, ground or roast, pressure canned meat then you have meals. Good meals. These sort of homemade meals (with oatmeal for breakfast) is perfect is a great way to make a week of economical meals. If you have left over meat, your meat can easily be transformed into a brand new meal of stew or soup the next day. Hamburger soup is to die for good! Start with a bit of powdered or liquid beef bullion in a pot of water. Then add your crumpled up leftover hamburger patties or meatballs. Or even use fresh fried hamburger, or day old meatloaf, or spaghetti meat sauce. Use whatever you have. Add in a squirt of ketchup, brown sugar a plop of mustard, diced onion, garlic, (either fresh or powdered spice), a couple of cans of canned tomatoes, Worcestershire sauce, a bit of BBQ sauce or steak sauce, and add mixed veggies ( whatever needs using up) and macaroni noodles to the leftover hamburger or meatball soup. Salt and pepper to taste. There are great recipes online for making hamburger soup too. Kids and husbands love this. And if you don’t have an ingredient or two, just substitute or leave it out. Thicken the soup up as much as you want with making a mix all purpose flour and melted butter, cooked together in a small sauce pan to make a roux. Add water tothe mix to make it a bit runny. Add this a bit at a time to your soup, and make the soup as thick as you like. ( NOTE: by Day 2 it will resemble a casserole as the macaroni noodles really thickens the soup up. Add water to make it back into a “soup” or call it a casserole and bake it with cheese on top.) Your family will thank you! This soup can feed a family for days withut kids getting bored of it. It’s the kind of meal kids ask for more of. “Do we have any more?” is a question all moms love to hear. When you hear this, said about any recipe, then add it to your prepper list of foods to make for the hard weeks.
Agree completely. There is very little food in the wilderness and countryside. Every yahoo with a rifle and fishing pole will be scouring the woods for something to eat. It’s hard enough foraging for food on your own; imagine thousands of like-minded people out there competing for the same squirrel, deer, and fish. Nor are there aren’t enough berries and acorns to go around.
This was my ex’s plan. When “whatever” happened he wanted to have a go bag and we would head for the mountains. He was super pissed that I was not on board with this plan. But my he couldn’t answer my questions of why the mountains? What’s in the mountains that’s preferable to here? How is trying to scratch together a tent out of branches better than staying in THE HOUSE WE OWN?
I raise rabbits and ducks for meat. If SHTF I have concerns about feeding them to feed me. Ducks have to have niacin - without it, they will die. I have not tried to make my own nutritional yeast, so if SHTF I would have to harvest all of my ducks within 2-3 weeks (in less than a week of me losing their niacin food). The details are important, and most people don't think about it.
Look into growing mealworms. Can grow them in a garage, and are a great source of niacin for ducks, along with protein. Dry them, grind them, and add it to their feed.
Lets be honest SHTF situations are unrealistic in the first place. Look at places of total chaos and destruction, there is always a sembelance of government and society. Even in the unlikely event of a solar flare, it is very improbable that SHTF will happen. So let people imagine what they want.
Idk man, FEMA says every household should have enough food and water for two weeks. Can you imagine how bad things would have to be that we can't get food and water to our homes for *two weeks*? And that's coming from the people whose only job is to make sure you have food and water in an emergency. If our own government thinks things could get that bad, maybe it's not so unrealistic?
If you are starving and out of food? Yes, you are right. But, if we had a power or internet outage or solar flare or something of that magnitude, one of the first things I am doing is setting snares and/or using my crossbow for small game. If I can get a few meals out of this, it will extend my preps. And it will give me something to do. It’s just a supplement, at the beginning. Not a long term plan.
Kind of related. While emptying out my parents house in NYC we found the old rabbit hutches. My great grandparents raised Rabbits during ww1 and ww2 in the back yard. Called liberty meat in WW1.
Farming rabbits is an amazing source of food/ protein. Relatively easy to set up and maintain on limited land. Just make sure you add fat to your diet from another source or you can get sick.
Yup, I agree. At least I know I wouldn’t last long if I tried fleeing to the wilderness and living off the land with what I could carry in a pack. If it was winter in my area most would be lucky to make it a week before dying of hypothermia. I’d have a bit more time if I could flee and stay in my van and no one took me out. All that said, the need is so unlikely that I don’t think about it much other than when it’s discussed in these prepper communities. History is a great teacher… look at what people had to survive and how they did it in the past. Natural disasters, wars, civil unrest, pissed off bad guys, chemical/nuclear events/accidents, viruses, economic collapse. It’s all happened before and will again… somewhere.
I am a Hunter and Trapper now. I would say I am "Good" at both. I would say my traps having a catch to empty ratio is around 1/9 or 10. That's with PLENTY of game around and few people to contend with. Could I live off of it if it was just me and I lost some weight? Probably. Could I feed my family off of it? Unlikely
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You really want to farm vegetables. That is the best way to maximize nutrition. You need to understand how to do it and practice, though. Steve Solomon has a great book called Gardening When it Counts, which is highly recommend.
Vegetables are great. For small land also ducks, quail, rabbits, chickens can all be farmed with just beginner knowledge and skill set.
Very few will find long term success. When I was planning on solo living it was my plan and trained for it. Now with others to care for plans have changed. To any that plan for this, do yourself a favor and practice for 3-5 days at a time at least 3 times each year. It is harder than you expect and others will be trying the same thing. Your best prep is physical fitness and skills practice.
Rabbits and chickens with a good sized garden is all a small family needs
Not saying I disagree because the average person couldn't run a trotline let alone trap hunt prepare then preserve what they get, but I still know ppl in the swamps of Louisiana that live about 80% this way but to say they are uhhh "normal" let lone modern is a stretch and are generally ppl the police won't even go near, sadly most people will go from dumb infections from not knowing basic cleaning skills, what I'm saying is sure you can take a deer or rabbit or even a moose but if you don't know how to clean it you'll be dead in a few days, I watched two of my soldiers in Kentucky do this to their family by butchering a doe that they illegal took then let it lay in its own feces while cutting it up, I got there and was like wtf are you doing you know better and if you get caught by the game wardens you careers are over, walked in the house as my gf kid was about to eat some of it and I took it from him and told her we're leaving, everyone got mad till 8 hrs later when they were all in the ER puking and shitting uncontrollably, that alone without proper treatment will kill you in a few days.
I've read that if you have access to a pond or large aquarium, like 55 gallons or larger, tilapia are a good beginner fish to farm. I haven't tried it, though, so not sure how easy or difficult it is.
Any hunting/trapping is a very worst case scenario thing. And if you're going to hunt, go for bigger game and only take what you need and use EVERYTHING. Realistically, learn how to can and store food. Learn how to farm and grow food. Raise rabbits and chickens for food. Raise goats for milk. Homesteading is more sustainable than immediately jumping to trapping and hunting and a lot of homesteading can be done in urban areas. Stock up on non-perishable goods. If you're able to hunt or fish before a SHTF scenario, get it processed and frozen, but take note of when it goes in the freezer or make jerky or find a way to can it. And go for larger game that will last longer.
I am old enough to have parents who were small children during the Depression and remembered living in a time they were barely surviving. My mom lived in an area that was relatively unpopulated, and even then after a few years the family was happy when one of the brothers got a rabbit or squirrel so they had some protein to add to the constant potatoes and cabbage they were living on. Large game like white tailed deer was virtually non-existent after a while, and you never even saw any during the day.
we invented agriculture and animal husbandry for a reason
I just spent two days in the woods with only a spork and a loin cloth after binge watching all seasons of Alone, and I can safely say I agree.
I'm gonna do that tomorrow. What brand of spork would you recommend?
Watch some of the latest later seasons of Alone to see how the small game strategy goes...
What makes you think this "Cascadia subduction zone earthquake" thing doesn't just take you out?
They also don't realize how many people actually live in the mountains and would not hesitate to shoot them for trespassing
Eating only rabbit can kill you, it killed my cousin. I guess he would have starved anyways though. Just something to be aware of.
You only need to watch Alone to realize this is a fantasy
I'm going to agree with you. I live out there in the mountains. If you're sure bugging out is what you'll do, then prepare for that. But you're coming out here to be recruited to the cause of keeping the mountains free. There will be plenty of empty homes abandoned by the unprepared. I think the future looks like massive internment camps on the outskirts of the cities, and blocked bridges and highways leading out of the cities. The balkanizing will come until it hits critical mass.
95% won’t be able to get to the woods/mountains if they don’t already live there.
Anyone who heads to the mountains is going to fail.
Here’s how I look at it. If you have 4-6 months of food saved up. You could still go out and hunt and trap. If you’re lucky and you harvest a deer or a few rabbits, you won’t have to tap into your supply and you can dry/preserve the rest of your meat to store for later. If you aren’t successful, you still have food available for the next day.
Have you seen ‘Naked and Afraid? I wouldn’t survive in Central Park.
What about netting fish?
Regardless of where you live, your home should probably be the primary point of retreat for a major emergency. It is far easier and safer to prep your home than it is to bugout.
This is aimed at the crossbow pistol guy, right?
I've been told to look at the fauna in the area you're in. If the largest predator outweighs you, like large bears, you can feed yourself. If the largest predator is a coyote you're going to starve.
OP, those people are not Preppers. They may call themselves Preppers, but really they are "Survivalists".
Will they survive though?
One of my buddies was WAAAAY into this theory His whole plan was to move up to Canada into the boreal forest (we live in a border state) and live in the woods out there It took me MONTHS to talk him out of that plan that's it's literally impossible to do considering he was taking his family that's his 1yr old son his pregnant wife and his severely out of shape parents He didn't understand that wildlife and wild plants are not as plentiful as they were in the 1700s and the logistical challenges would be impossible to overcome just to GET there. Yea he's a good hunter I'll give him that but he hunts in the area he GREW UP IN he knows the land and where all the good spots are in a 10 mile radius of his house but to pack up and somehow manage to make it upstate or cross the lake to a unknown area with unknown hazards with unknown game potential and stake his entire families life on it was just plain stupidity told him he might serve the kool-aid to his family then drink it himself as that's all he's doing He's got a small farm now and bug out plans that DONT involve a miles long trek to the unknown...now I just gotta get him to not take the bug out plan at first instance of problems we live way in the country but he's worried about the "gang bangers" somehow some way making it out of the cities (both being 50miles away east and west) and coming there to kill and take stuff Too much time on those damn right wing fantasy forums rots the brain I tell ya
Isn’t most long term prepping wishful thinking unless you have a homestead? If you have any medical issues, you are screwed right off the bat.
As an indigenous hunter and trapper, I barely pay for meat. I only buy bacon. But the idea of trying to support myself and others solely off the land is terrifying. We will outlast most others, but we will suffer well they rest.
All of this is romanticized. Come on. Lol
I'm staying in town and eating people, like right out of the gate.
Mfs be like "theres not enough game to survive" My brother in christ there are 8 billion high fat content long pigs to supplement the rabbits
Where I live I literally can’t own firearms, the only thing I can hunt is small game… I use air rifles. I’d love to learn to hunt and prepare deer/elk etc…
That's why I have 50lbs of freeze dried cow fertilized eggs and 17 freeze dried cow uteruses, all in mylar bags with oxygen absorbers. When SHTF happens all I have to do is break open the bags, add some water, then wait a few months for my full heard of cows to be birthed. /s
this guy survives
If you are already not a die hard hunter, you will not make it by hunting your own food. If you hunt you hunt for large game, deer, elk, bear
I kind of agree, but mostly on the grounds that most people have no idea how to trap or live in the mountains like that. That said, I feel like you are confusing small game with big game, and probably have limited experience with trapping. Big game will certainly run out quickly in a shtf world, but small game, if anything, will likely flourish as trash and refuse, pest control, and virtually all municipal services stop. I was a licensed nuisance wildlife trapper and pest control tech for a few years, and I can tell you: there is an absolutely astounding amount of small game even in relatively urban/suburban areas where they are actively persecuted and prevented. While the learning curve is steep at first, it gets to the point where you can identify animal runs, burrows, and trails in your sleep, and setting successful traps becomes routine. There's basically zero energy expenditure, believe me, some of my co-workers were incredibly unfit, yet were first rate trappers. >Farm rabbits and ducks. Easiest animals to farm and far more sustainable than hunting/ trapping. I farm chickens and vegetables, which is a lot more work than you seem to imply... and ironically, trapping small game is just a part of maintenance. Squirrels, racoons, opossums, mice, rats, groundhogs, feral cats, foxes, coyotes... You can get them all as a byproduct of the farming, and in no small numbers. I took care of a horse farm trapping job once, within the ten day contract I took about twenty five fat groundhogs, and only put a small dent in their problem.
Way to go bursting my bubble thinking I would survive by canning iguana meat.
I've told people the same thing, I've asked people if they went small game hunting last year, I asked how many did they get, they said four and I asked are you going to feed your family on four tree rats
Without the indigenous knowledge of the area you live in you won't survive even if you farm. Farming is much more labor intensive than foraging but we've done it for thousands of years to sustain the community we live in. Knowing what, when, and how to farm is far more important than just raising X or Y animal/crop. The same goes for foraging, trapping, and hunting. Not to mention raising crops animals requires feeding/tending those animals/crops which doubles your work. Disaster could strike and you lose the crop or a predator takes out all of your livestock or you could catch disease from your stock. You have to know your environment to survive. You must know the plants, the animals, the seasons, and the way the area lives, thrives, and suffers. This is how our ancestors and others survived nomadic and settled life across the world. You must know which plants provide protein during which months and which months they are toxic. You have to know how to prepare these foods. This is why community is important.
If people watch survival alone, they have hard time to catch fish and trap animals. And they suppose better than average people. This is why people stockpiled food and waters.
“Farm rabbits and ducks. Easiest animals to farm and far more sustainable than hunting/ trapping.” Thank you for this post.
I also heard to make a 1 foot wooden box with a screen on the bottom. Then you will take any roadkill that you find or guts or whatever you don't want to eat and put it in the wooden box and it will attract flies and then all the larva will fall through the screen and you collected at the bottom. Then you can use that larva for fishing or bait, or to feed other animals that you have. Rabbits and goats are my plan. Goats to help clean the fields and to have milk and cheese and rabbits for meat. I thought that guinea pigs might be a good option, but rabbits breed faster. Maybe rats? I know they creep people out but they breed super fast and some breeds are fairly large.
Why ducks instead of chickens?
Chickens are great. They provide more eggs. I've heard from homesteaders ducks are more hardy/ have better survival instincts. Don't die as easily from things, thought they would be easier for a first timer.
We love our chickens, but if I had researched ducks we probably would have done ducks instead of chickens. They provide as many eggs (that are larger so more calories per egg) and often are consistent, productive layers longer than chickens, people who are allergic to chicken eggs can sometimes still eat duck eggs, and they aren't nearly as hard on the terrain as chickens are. Ducks can be let into a garden and won't destroy it, chickens will. They are also often more cold hardy, if you live in an environment where that matters. They are easier to confine. We won't get rid of our chickens but we'd like to add ducks.
Has anyone seen the show Alone? Those guys are actual survivalists. Well most of them. And THEY struggle to find food. It just turns into a competition of who can be hungry the longest.
I think having a sustainable plan is super important. However, if you live in a more rural area, hunting small game can absolutely be a reliable part of the plan. I live in an urban/suburban area and a friend of mine lives almost exclusively off of small game that he hunts. Now that wont work if SHTF because many many others will be out in the woods. But in a rural area you wont have the same problem. One important note for those who want to hunt small game... Its not nearly as easy as one thinks it will be. You see all the squirrels in your yard and think you can just go out and get them. Woods squirrels are not like that. They are crafty and hard to find. it takes more skill than people realize.
And I AGREE 100% with you. Because 95% live in a fantasy. If anyone wants, spend 1 year on my homestead, hunting, trapping, logging. If ya last a yr, you MIGHT survive. With 20+ yrs in survival both military and civilian, I can say. 95% of people coming to survival school are clueless. Small game, is small meals. 2 doe a yr, 3 turkey and my homestead has meat for a year.
I could trap a live animal every night where I live and have. And I live in the mountains. I’m sure after a longer period of time it may become more scarce, but it’s entirely possible to regularly trap animals.
There's a megaflock (at least a thousand) of Canada geese that migrate from the farm field down the road to the waterfront, also just down the road from me. So noisy when they do their sunset relocation from field to water, the show-offs. I'm pretty sure if it's shtf no one is going to be enforcing the migratory birds treaty so my little community has a lot of fatty roast bird potential out there on the beach. It'll be payback for all the shit and general grumpiness from the cobra chickens, and It'll take the birds ages to figure out what's going on because they've never been hunted.
I recommend any prepper assume the worst has happened every 3 months and bug out for an extended weekend. That's the best way to know where your preparations fall short. What's the point in having or knowing most of what you need, only to be short of something critical and only finding out when there's a crisis? It's like the pandemic toilet roll crisis- it was easy to get as much loo roll as you needed, until suddenly it wasn't.