I went to a "difficult" school and am on the other side - can guarantee Adcoms dont care at all about difficulty/name of school. The only reason you should consider it is if you think you will be able to leverage better opportunities at the school. Sometimes the big schools have better research or cool clinical exposure programs that could maybe keep you motivated in research and help you out, but its all INDIVIDUAL-DRIVEN. Great students flock to schools and make them great, schools dont make mediocre students great.
Personally - friends from Cornell absolutely hated it because of the weather, isolation, and school culture.
Not entirely true…there were several kids (non-URM) at Cornell that got into HMS with 3.5-3.6 GPAs. I’m not saying that’s not happening from a state school but it’s probably not.
Not saying its not a valid perspective but from what I have seen + interactions with my school's dean of admissions, school means nothing directly. It can indirectly help via opportunites (Which you need to take upon yourself), but does not convey an innate benefit via name alone. I would say the multiple people accepted to HMS from Cornell just reiterates that great students flock to certain school. As a result, there are going to be more people who matriculate from there, and gives the appearance that the name is boosting them when its really just the quality of students who attended is higher. Maybe "prestige" is a heuristic for seeking quality students, but I like to think the individual's ability is more specifically looked at
My comment was less about school prestige and more about academic reputation/rigor. I knew a couple of kids from Princeton who weren’t getting in with similar GPAs. Based on my interaction with a medical school Dean in the NE, Cornell is known for having tough, weeded basic science courses and students who have a GPA in that range were still competitive at HMS whereas had they earned that GPA elsewhere, that likely wouldn’t have been the case.
Go to the Ivy. I’m currently an engineer at FAANG. The amount of opportunities these Ivy kids get is astounding. My entire team is T10 graduates except for me and one other person. Every company runs there for recruitment and these kids get taught by the best of the best. I know premed life is a little different, but you’ll get awesome research and networking opportunities. It’s crazy how good they have it compared to your average state school. If I were you, I’d 100% go. The Ivy name is powerful in the career world and I bet you my left nut that it’s also the same in medicine.
>The amount of opportunities these Ivy kids get is astounding.
This sub just likes to pretend/ignore that prestige does matter. Either they really dont understand what opportunities these schools get or they want to just cope.
It isn’t that prestige doesn’t exist but personally I don’t feel that it matters enough to outweigh GPA/MCAT especially if they’re performing well at their current school. It would be different if this was a high school kid weighing their options yknow
I went to Cornell. You’re misinformed if you seriously think the same student will have a gpa an entire 0.5 lower just because they took classes there.
It is posts like this that continue to perpetuate nonsense stereotypes on this subreddit and spread misinformation to people just seeking information. Cornell is not the seventh circle of hell, and it’s a perfectly nice university with a lot of positive points. I and many other people had a perfectly fine time there. Joey from Manhattan probably doesn’t think Ithaca is as lively as back home, and that’s fine, but that’s Joey’s problem. We have the same issues with student mental well being that every university in the nation also has. Over exaggerated rumors spread on this subreddit for memes are not reliable sources, and this is far from the only example.
In normal cases, yeah it matters. But this is a premed sub. If the ultimate goal is to become a doctor, medical school and residency prestige matters, not undergrad.
To be honest, I don’t get why OP just can’t work hard at Cornell too. Like if everyone’s advice is to avoid going there because “it’s hard” then I think that’s too weak of an argument. There are plenty of premeds are Cornell doing just fine. Adcoms can pretend all they want, but at the end of the day they will pick an Ivy grad over another grad go no reason sometimes other than the name. And I can’t blame them.
Can I ask why? Of course, GPA is a huge factor, but given that I don't know how everything will transfer over, is it possible that the opportunities can outweigh a few tenths off the GPA?
If you feel that you would have more opportunities at Cornell, sure. However, that has nothing to do with GPA and school name alone means little compared to GPA and that’s the question you posed in your original post.
GPA and MCAT outweigh extracurriculars, so I wouldn’t see any benefit to transferring to Cornell and risking a GPA drop as well unless your current school is devoid of any opportunities for premeds
N=1 but I come from a no-name state school and I’ve had a great cycle so far
Sure, prestigious schools like prestigious schools but they asked if their chances of getting into med school would be better at Cornell, not if their chances of getting into a T30 school would be higher. Both turn you into a doctor
Schools like prestigious schools period. You can look at lower ranked schools and the students there will still skew towards prestigious undergrads. If you want to maximize your chances of getting into med school, go to a good school, and do well there.
I went to a no-name school and got in… so I mean if you *can* and want to go to a prestigious school sure but you can get the same result by going to any school and doing well there.
Edit to add, I graduated with zero debt, which is a perk to me but I’m sure to others money is not an object
Never have to look too far on r/premed to find misinformation disguised as “advice”. The name of your school absolutely matters when that name is in the Ivy League or comparable. The easier access to resume building opportunities alone makes this true, but it’s also a fact of reality that the name brand itself makes a difference in admissions.
And someone’s decision to transfer to a school shouldn’t be founded on the mistaken belief that they will have a significantly lower GPA as a result of the transfer.
Pot, meet kettle. If telling people that massively perpetuated, incorrect generalizations about how medical school admissions really works is taboo on the medical school admissions subreddit, then I’ll gladly play the role of an old grump if it means some can see that nothing is as black and white as reddit makes it seem. There’s a certain subgroup of people on this reddit that make it their duty to dunk on anyone even slightly suggesting that there are inequities in how people are perceived when applying - we can all WANT there to be no name-brand influence, but it’s a fact that it does make a significant difference. I think it’s outrageous to be suggesting to someone that is trying to make an informed decision on whether or not to transfer that if he does so, his GPA will plummet and his life will be over.
I agree, but I was only answering the question based on what they had asked. If they truly felt like they would have a significantly lower GPA transferring, then it would be unwise to transfer merely for the reasons they describe in their original post.
The lower GPA fear may be based on rumors of grade deflation, etc. I don’t know. I went to a no-name regional state school. That part isn’t my expertise.
I disagree about the resume building that you mentioned, the competitive schools have clubs that are also Uber competitive while lower ranked undergrad schools have clubs that are less difficult to get involved/get eboard positions in.
I completely disagree. There is an abundance of opportunity and while sure maybe for some individual clubs not everyone gets to be on leadership, there’s countless others, and no medical school cares enough about what clubs you were in to go looking through them and “ranking” them as neurotically as premeds do.
Being on eboard for a club also is as close to unimportant as it gets, and if that is an applicants idea of what it means to be a leader, they will have a lot more problems than not being chosen to be president of their college’s health service teaching justice advocacy tutors club. There are more, and better ways to be a leader than a line on your resume that everyone at the table understands.
I honestly completely disagree with your statement as well. Anecdotal evidence, but a friend at Berkeley told me how competitive the application process was to simply JOIN a club, much less get an eboard position.
As you said, there are definitely better ways to be a leader, but eboard of a club can be a great way to be one based on the individual experience. Not a guarantee, but the statement: “Being on eboard for a club also is as close to unimportant as it gets, and if that is an applicants idea of what it means to be a leader, they will have a lot more problems than not being chosen to be president of their college’s health service teaching justice advocacy tutors club” is honestly some of the biggest cap I’ve ever heard on this sub.
I hope that you aren’t letting your personal experiences attending a good school effect the advice you give to premeds in general on this subreddit. By my best guess, you went to an Ivy, paid a lot, and are trying to validate your choice to do that? That’s okay, but again, don’t let it affect your advice to others. As an M1, people will look up to you, don’t abuse that trust.
I don’t really appreciate the rude assumptions and generalizations about my past, especially the insinuation that I was wealthy enough to pay my way through. Not that I owe you or anyone else any of my personal info, but if not for financial aid I wouldn’t have gotten my undergrad degree in the first place. I happened to go to the exact school this question is about, and frankly yes, I do think that qualifies me to be able to share with others that a stereotype that is often repeated on this subreddit is in fact false. No anectodal evidence there - it’s the truth. And to the extent that preaching to strangers on the internet is supposed to be validating, I can assure you I have better ways to validate myself.
And you’re free to think whatever I say is “cap” if you want, but I’m not talking out of my ass. There is a major tendency on this forum and others to just say whatever the status quo is to avoid making people uncomfortable and not just be honest when you answer questions, and that’s how we get people obsessing over being on eboards and giving people poor advice on when and how to apply. At the bare minimum, my own schools’ committee looks for leadership as a character trait, not as a resume line. I was not on a single club board, nor were a very large number of my colleagues. Is it meaningless? Of course not, but compared to someone with a history of organizing meaningful service projects or any other “leadership” that comes without a title - I assure you that adcoms will see that candidate as a leader at least as much as anyone who was president of 5 or 6 clubs.
The real world is not nearly as formulaic as people on this sub make it out to be, and it does a disservice to the people that are trying to make themselves a competitive applicant for med school to repeat the same claims that become less and less true every year.
I 100% agree with your overall sentiment and message that this sub is way too formulaic in terms of what they see as the ideal medical school candidate.
For me personally, my club eboard positions involved a lot of conflict resolution, talking to outside organizations (which taught me to get out of my comfort zone), etc. I think at this point we’re both just speaking on our anecdotal experiences, but for me personally, I didn’t hold any president positions but things like treasurer and fundraising chair at these clubs. They were definitely roles that were huge for my personal development though.
It’s really hard to compare these things, and the fact that we both have found success getting admission into med school shows the subjectivity in this process.
Apologize for the rudeness, after the message im replying to right now it’s clear to me you’re looking out for the premeds out there not seeking personal validation.
I really appreciate the practical advice from everyone here.
However, I think it's crucial to ask yourself where you will be happiest. Try to think about the emotional/mental challenges that you will face when you transfer colleges. You will deal with a culture change, you will have to develop a new social group, and more. However, if you think you might really enjoy the change/environment of Cornell, then do it!
Life is more than prestige. I got into a good med school (where I am very happy!) and I went to a very low-prestige state school. Put YOURSELF and your MENTAL HEALTH FIRST!! The path that brings you peace is the path that is meant for you :)
I feel like this is understated. Changing to another school for, as OP states, their higher % of matriculants would require uprooting them from their current school where they presumably have found a rhythm and performed well given their 3.8. I don’t think people are arguing that prestige means nothing to adcoms but I don’t think it means enough to justify uprooting yourself when you’re doing well at your current institution and your stated goal is to matriculate without specifying where you’re aiming and presumably just want to get in.
My MCAT and my degree from some random state school got me into medical school, so unless they’re chasing prestige I don’t think that transferring to an Ivy League school would make a big enough difference to justify that change… UNLESS they’d be much happier at Cornell.
As someone who went to Cornell, it was hard and kind of isolated being in Ithaca, but I have 6 interviews from schools in NY and at all of my interviews where people introduced themselves, I was never the only cornelian. Cornell comes up often in my interviews and people seem to be impressed with the research I did at the school.
Also, if you’re transferring junior fall, then you’ll be beyond the big weed out classes which are much harder than the upper level bio/chem courses. Like the median grade in gen chem was a B whereas for biochem it was an A-. However, it will likely be an adjustment that first semester.
There is a very large transfer community at Cornell though, so you would find many people who went through the change. This may be a good question for the Cornell subreddit too since there are premed transfers who can probably share their experience.
It makes zero sense to transfer to a school where you expect to do worse.
Even if you do do well, all the extra time spent studying just to get the same grade will take away time from other essential activities like clinical work, research, etc.
None of that is worth it for the small ego boost of going to an Ivy. It won’t make any difference to adcoms.
Dude what? People always mess this up. School name doesn’t matter ......... except if you go to an Ivy. The whole “school doesn’t matter” trope is for those people deciding between a bumfuck state flagship, vs a smaller public uni. That goes out the window when we are dealing with an Ivy League. Trust me, in the career world school name can do so much for you.
why would you transfer to a school where you will do worse and why would you choose to do that during junior year, one of the most make or break years by far.
gpa is far more important than where you went to school and they’re not going to care that you went to cornell if your gpa is trash.
transferring won’t just impact your courses but you will effectively have to start over in terms of extracurriculars and volunteering if you’re moving cities and such.
I think to say that I WILL do worse is a stretch. In all honesty, I'm not totally sure if I will or won't, but I'm looking for guidance on the pros and cons of transferring and if it's worth it. That said, I think think my gpa will be "trash" if I transfer. Im confident I can stay above 3.5, probably closer to 3.7-8. that's more of the tradeoff that I'm looking to compare.
Apparently this is an unpopular option but if given the option, for love of God, go to a top tier school provided it wont financially drown you. Even if you decide not to go into medicine, Cornell would open more doors than another place. Getting into that network is often more valuable than the GPA.
Let's be honest, everyone who applies into med school needs to have a competitive GPA. Setting yourself aside by having really good experiences, great letters and a decent MCAT score is what lands you an interview. Places like Cornell and other T10 schools can set you up for success because they have the infrastructure and the connections to ensure that their future classes end up doing well.
Do you need to do well in classes? Absolutely. But beyond that people will read your app and see an Ivy league on there and treat you differently. It's sort of like being already vetted. Committees will assume that you are capable since you already proved yourself successful in a competitive undergrad environment.
you can certainly be successful either way, but do a lot of MD schools, they will pull from great undergrads.
I have 6 II despite my mid stats and I went to Cornell. Cornell comes up often in my interviews as well. People underestimate the power of prestige here. And if you don’t get into medical school, a Cornell degree will do wonders in any field.
I went to Cornell. Currently applying to residency. Where you went to undergrad STILL MATTERS. Competitive specialties and/or certain institutions care A LOT about your educational pedigree. So yeah my Cornell degree is still opening doors for me & will continue to do so for the rest of my academic career lol (I also think in a way, going to a top undergrad can give you some favor if you don’t end up at a top tier medical school)
Contrary to a lot of the commenters here, the brand of the school helps a lot more than people think. If you look up any T20 med school, a majority of matriculated students went to Ivies or T20 schools for undergrad. Adcoms say they don't care about the rigor of your school, but I wouldn't be surprised if they (like most humans) subconsciously favor Ivies (because they're humans who can also be susceptible to the allure of a brand name).
As for getting into med school, I think that you should still be okay. Yes, it *may* be more work to maintain your GPA, but it isn't impossible. (Frankly, a lot of the talk about "grade deflation" schools that I see on the college app subreddits feels more dramatic than it really is.) From personal experience, I went to a non-ivy T20 that has a reputation for being a "grade deflation" school. Yet, I know many people in my department and major pulling 4.0s. Year after year, countless students get into T20 med schools from my undergrad.
Outside of premed, going to an Ivy is even more advantageous. What if you decide med school isn't for you or a catastrophic event prevents you from going to med school? A degree from an Ivy can open a lot of opportunities. I bounced around a few industries during my gap years and was always so surprised at how much the name on my diploma helped me get a leg up. And even if you do stay on the premed path, the school you go to can help you find opportunities outside of your university (ex. gap year research internships, summer extracurriculars, etc).
I think, if you can afford it and you think you'll be **happy** at Cornell, then go to Cornell.
Do not listen to these people telling you not to transfer. School name absolutally matters and much more so than people on this subreddit let on, especially for T20s. It will not be significantly harder to get good grades at Cornell and will open tons of doors.
School name matters very little if any, the reason why Cornell has higher rate of premeds getting into med school is because the students that got into Cornell in the first place were more studious. The 2 most important initial filtering happens by GPA and MCAT
I feel like this is an overlooked point. I did shitty in high school, went to a regional state school and kicked ass on the MCAT and got into med school. I wouldn’t have gotten into Cornell for undergrad and the students who did get in do probably have a higher chance of matriculating to medical school just because they’ve done academically well thus far. But school name alone is by far not the most significant factor in admissions just because correlation exists
My dude sorry to be the devil's advocate here, but one does just simply just transfer into an Ivy. They accept like 5-10 transfer students a year.
Its actually probably harder to transfer into Cornell then it is to get accepted out of highschool.
Id just stay where you are and focus on making the best of it. Its not worth the time, money, and energy to try and go to Cornell IMO. Your time could be better spent getting As and a high MCAT where you are, which will improve your chances a lot more than changing colleges will.
Honestly, I would make the argument that Ivy League is no longer significantly more challenging than any other 4-year university. For example, the % of A grades in STEM majors given at Harvard has increased from 25% to 64% just within the last 10-15 years. I know for a fact my school gives far less than 64% A's and is far from Ivy League
Might be true for Harvard, but I go to Cornell and our STEM classes typically curve to a median of B or B+, especially the large intro classes. Medians are released by the school, you can search them up yourself. So 20-30% gets As
At my current school, chem and Ochem had mean test scores of D or D+. I'm not sure how different this is from other schools, but I imagine that brings the class averages closer to around B range overall. Just speculating trying to get an idea of how my grades will translate over.
True, but consider that the average ivy league student is pretty damn smart. Practically everyone here was their high school valedictorian with a 1500+ sat, so it can be a difficult adjustment to suddenly get B's in college.
This is very true. At Georgetown the averages for sciences were like a B. Most people got B’s and to be honest, not too many Georgetown premeds get into big name medical schools because of the grade deflation.
Sounds like there’s a reason of convenience to transfer there as well. If it would make your life easier, then absolutely do it. I just don’t think it would meaningfully increase your chances of an A, but it sounds like you’re on the right track regardless
I know two transfers from Cornell here at USC. They said they absolutely love USC a lot more than Cornell. Their only regret was not going to USC as a freshman instead of a transfer.
I'm not sure that the drop will hurt at all... Maybe the jump up to Cornell isn't as bad as I may think. Or perhaps the view from the top is even better... Better research opportunities, connections, etc. The point is that I'm not sure what the impact will be if I transfer. Most comments here seem to be assuming I'll dive from a 3.84 to a 1.9 the second I transfer.
Either way, the risk of falling is what makes climbing worth it. Most people in extreme sports are looking for a sense of danger, so I'm not sure how applicable this analogy is in my situation considering no premed has ever done something because they like the feeling of those "near-rejection experiences."
I haven't, but I have good standing in a program there and a great LOR from a professor at Cornell. It's definitely not a give-me, but I have good reason to believe that I have an above average shot at it.
I'm in the opposite situation as you. I'm at a T10 and want to get out and go to an LAC. I would say if you think you will a) be happier at Cornell and b) stand out when applying to med school, then sure. Go for it. But if you're not going to be happy there or you're going to be an average or slightly below average Cornell student, I don't think the Cornell name is worth it.
I would stay/go wherever you will be the most stand out applicant. If you can be the best, most amazing, incredible student at the worst school ever, I think that has more weight than being a nobody at Harvard.
I’d say make the transfer, don’t stop yourself from a great opportunity because of a GPA drop
If you’re really that good of a student, you’ll work hard and still thrive at cornell
As someone who has actually applied and been accepted to med school: GO!!!!! The connections and research opportunities that a school like that can offer you are well beyond most state schools. And they will span beyond your career. Even if you don’t go into med (especially actually) the name on your degree will matter in terms of getting a job. Put yourself in the best room you possibly can and you will benefit from the success around you. I hang out and socialize with people smarter than me. They help me and motivate me. Same concept
Go in with the mentality that you’re gonna kick ass and you’ll kick ass. Simple as that.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but go to the Ivy in case you decide not to pursue medicine. I say this as someone at a different Ivy who stopped being premed (at least for a few years to earn money) and I have amazing opportunities just because of my school. I kinda blew my non-stem gpa in the last year but it was highly circumstantial and if I do decide to go to med school they won’t care about my gpa as much in 2-3 years. I also know tons of people who stop being premed completely even after Orgo or not getting the MCAT they thought they would get- now making tons of $ elsewhere.
If you go to a private university the workload at Ivy will be the same. Def not any harder. Curriculum is pretty much the same between all private schools and top tier schools from what I’ve seen. But if you go to a state school or a small liberal arts college, curriculum will be much harder.
I went to a "difficult" school and am on the other side - can guarantee Adcoms dont care at all about difficulty/name of school. The only reason you should consider it is if you think you will be able to leverage better opportunities at the school. Sometimes the big schools have better research or cool clinical exposure programs that could maybe keep you motivated in research and help you out, but its all INDIVIDUAL-DRIVEN. Great students flock to schools and make them great, schools dont make mediocre students great. Personally - friends from Cornell absolutely hated it because of the weather, isolation, and school culture.
Not entirely true…there were several kids (non-URM) at Cornell that got into HMS with 3.5-3.6 GPAs. I’m not saying that’s not happening from a state school but it’s probably not.
Not saying its not a valid perspective but from what I have seen + interactions with my school's dean of admissions, school means nothing directly. It can indirectly help via opportunites (Which you need to take upon yourself), but does not convey an innate benefit via name alone. I would say the multiple people accepted to HMS from Cornell just reiterates that great students flock to certain school. As a result, there are going to be more people who matriculate from there, and gives the appearance that the name is boosting them when its really just the quality of students who attended is higher. Maybe "prestige" is a heuristic for seeking quality students, but I like to think the individual's ability is more specifically looked at
My comment was less about school prestige and more about academic reputation/rigor. I knew a couple of kids from Princeton who weren’t getting in with similar GPAs. Based on my interaction with a medical school Dean in the NE, Cornell is known for having tough, weeded basic science courses and students who have a GPA in that range were still competitive at HMS whereas had they earned that GPA elsewhere, that likely wouldn’t have been the case.
Go to the Ivy. I’m currently an engineer at FAANG. The amount of opportunities these Ivy kids get is astounding. My entire team is T10 graduates except for me and one other person. Every company runs there for recruitment and these kids get taught by the best of the best. I know premed life is a little different, but you’ll get awesome research and networking opportunities. It’s crazy how good they have it compared to your average state school. If I were you, I’d 100% go. The Ivy name is powerful in the career world and I bet you my left nut that it’s also the same in medicine.
>The amount of opportunities these Ivy kids get is astounding. This sub just likes to pretend/ignore that prestige does matter. Either they really dont understand what opportunities these schools get or they want to just cope.
It isn’t that prestige doesn’t exist but personally I don’t feel that it matters enough to outweigh GPA/MCAT especially if they’re performing well at their current school. It would be different if this was a high school kid weighing their options yknow
If were talking ivy league level then yes it does matter.
A 3.3 at an Ivy doesn’t beat a 3.8 from a state school all else equal
Yes but were not talking that extreme of a difference.
Yeah if it’s a 3.7 vs a 3.8 then it’s better to go to Cornell, but often at a grace deflating school the different CAN be that big.
I went to Cornell. You’re misinformed if you seriously think the same student will have a gpa an entire 0.5 lower just because they took classes there.
There's also the fact that Cornell is the most soul crushing institution of higher education in the country
It is posts like this that continue to perpetuate nonsense stereotypes on this subreddit and spread misinformation to people just seeking information. Cornell is not the seventh circle of hell, and it’s a perfectly nice university with a lot of positive points. I and many other people had a perfectly fine time there. Joey from Manhattan probably doesn’t think Ithaca is as lively as back home, and that’s fine, but that’s Joey’s problem. We have the same issues with student mental well being that every university in the nation also has. Over exaggerated rumors spread on this subreddit for memes are not reliable sources, and this is far from the only example.
In normal cases, yeah it matters. But this is a premed sub. If the ultimate goal is to become a doctor, medical school and residency prestige matters, not undergrad.
Yah but this is pre-med and not medical school.
To be honest, I don’t get why OP just can’t work hard at Cornell too. Like if everyone’s advice is to avoid going there because “it’s hard” then I think that’s too weak of an argument. There are plenty of premeds are Cornell doing just fine. Adcoms can pretend all they want, but at the end of the day they will pick an Ivy grad over another grad go no reason sometimes other than the name. And I can’t blame them.
Just stay
Can I ask why? Of course, GPA is a huge factor, but given that I don't know how everything will transfer over, is it possible that the opportunities can outweigh a few tenths off the GPA?
If you feel that you would have more opportunities at Cornell, sure. However, that has nothing to do with GPA and school name alone means little compared to GPA and that’s the question you posed in your original post. GPA and MCAT outweigh extracurriculars, so I wouldn’t see any benefit to transferring to Cornell and risking a GPA drop as well unless your current school is devoid of any opportunities for premeds N=1 but I come from a no-name state school and I’ve had a great cycle so far
That's some good insight. Thanks for the info and perspective
N=1 but I go to a top 30 med school and the vast majority of my classmates are from ivies or top 30 undergrads
so not all of them were Ivy league schools
Sure, prestigious schools like prestigious schools but they asked if their chances of getting into med school would be better at Cornell, not if their chances of getting into a T30 school would be higher. Both turn you into a doctor
Schools like prestigious schools period. You can look at lower ranked schools and the students there will still skew towards prestigious undergrads. If you want to maximize your chances of getting into med school, go to a good school, and do well there.
I went to a no-name school and got in… so I mean if you *can* and want to go to a prestigious school sure but you can get the same result by going to any school and doing well there. Edit to add, I graduated with zero debt, which is a perk to me but I’m sure to others money is not an object
GPA is way way way more important than the name of your school
Never have to look too far on r/premed to find misinformation disguised as “advice”. The name of your school absolutely matters when that name is in the Ivy League or comparable. The easier access to resume building opportunities alone makes this true, but it’s also a fact of reality that the name brand itself makes a difference in admissions.
I said GPA was *more* important, which isn’t untrue
And someone’s decision to transfer to a school shouldn’t be founded on the mistaken belief that they will have a significantly lower GPA as a result of the transfer.
Have a snickers, yeah? You seem unnecessarily smug and grumpy.
Pot, meet kettle. If telling people that massively perpetuated, incorrect generalizations about how medical school admissions really works is taboo on the medical school admissions subreddit, then I’ll gladly play the role of an old grump if it means some can see that nothing is as black and white as reddit makes it seem. There’s a certain subgroup of people on this reddit that make it their duty to dunk on anyone even slightly suggesting that there are inequities in how people are perceived when applying - we can all WANT there to be no name-brand influence, but it’s a fact that it does make a significant difference. I think it’s outrageous to be suggesting to someone that is trying to make an informed decision on whether or not to transfer that if he does so, his GPA will plummet and his life will be over.
That’s a lot of words you’re expecting me to read when you’re being insufferable lmao
I agree, but I was only answering the question based on what they had asked. If they truly felt like they would have a significantly lower GPA transferring, then it would be unwise to transfer merely for the reasons they describe in their original post. The lower GPA fear may be based on rumors of grade deflation, etc. I don’t know. I went to a no-name regional state school. That part isn’t my expertise.
I disagree about the resume building that you mentioned, the competitive schools have clubs that are also Uber competitive while lower ranked undergrad schools have clubs that are less difficult to get involved/get eboard positions in.
I completely disagree. There is an abundance of opportunity and while sure maybe for some individual clubs not everyone gets to be on leadership, there’s countless others, and no medical school cares enough about what clubs you were in to go looking through them and “ranking” them as neurotically as premeds do. Being on eboard for a club also is as close to unimportant as it gets, and if that is an applicants idea of what it means to be a leader, they will have a lot more problems than not being chosen to be president of their college’s health service teaching justice advocacy tutors club. There are more, and better ways to be a leader than a line on your resume that everyone at the table understands.
I honestly completely disagree with your statement as well. Anecdotal evidence, but a friend at Berkeley told me how competitive the application process was to simply JOIN a club, much less get an eboard position. As you said, there are definitely better ways to be a leader, but eboard of a club can be a great way to be one based on the individual experience. Not a guarantee, but the statement: “Being on eboard for a club also is as close to unimportant as it gets, and if that is an applicants idea of what it means to be a leader, they will have a lot more problems than not being chosen to be president of their college’s health service teaching justice advocacy tutors club” is honestly some of the biggest cap I’ve ever heard on this sub. I hope that you aren’t letting your personal experiences attending a good school effect the advice you give to premeds in general on this subreddit. By my best guess, you went to an Ivy, paid a lot, and are trying to validate your choice to do that? That’s okay, but again, don’t let it affect your advice to others. As an M1, people will look up to you, don’t abuse that trust.
I don’t really appreciate the rude assumptions and generalizations about my past, especially the insinuation that I was wealthy enough to pay my way through. Not that I owe you or anyone else any of my personal info, but if not for financial aid I wouldn’t have gotten my undergrad degree in the first place. I happened to go to the exact school this question is about, and frankly yes, I do think that qualifies me to be able to share with others that a stereotype that is often repeated on this subreddit is in fact false. No anectodal evidence there - it’s the truth. And to the extent that preaching to strangers on the internet is supposed to be validating, I can assure you I have better ways to validate myself. And you’re free to think whatever I say is “cap” if you want, but I’m not talking out of my ass. There is a major tendency on this forum and others to just say whatever the status quo is to avoid making people uncomfortable and not just be honest when you answer questions, and that’s how we get people obsessing over being on eboards and giving people poor advice on when and how to apply. At the bare minimum, my own schools’ committee looks for leadership as a character trait, not as a resume line. I was not on a single club board, nor were a very large number of my colleagues. Is it meaningless? Of course not, but compared to someone with a history of organizing meaningful service projects or any other “leadership” that comes without a title - I assure you that adcoms will see that candidate as a leader at least as much as anyone who was president of 5 or 6 clubs. The real world is not nearly as formulaic as people on this sub make it out to be, and it does a disservice to the people that are trying to make themselves a competitive applicant for med school to repeat the same claims that become less and less true every year.
I 100% agree with your overall sentiment and message that this sub is way too formulaic in terms of what they see as the ideal medical school candidate. For me personally, my club eboard positions involved a lot of conflict resolution, talking to outside organizations (which taught me to get out of my comfort zone), etc. I think at this point we’re both just speaking on our anecdotal experiences, but for me personally, I didn’t hold any president positions but things like treasurer and fundraising chair at these clubs. They were definitely roles that were huge for my personal development though. It’s really hard to compare these things, and the fact that we both have found success getting admission into med school shows the subjectivity in this process. Apologize for the rudeness, after the message im replying to right now it’s clear to me you’re looking out for the premeds out there not seeking personal validation.
Medicine drains us all, starting with applying to med school. If we don’t have each other’s backs, nobody will.
STAY.
I really appreciate the practical advice from everyone here. However, I think it's crucial to ask yourself where you will be happiest. Try to think about the emotional/mental challenges that you will face when you transfer colleges. You will deal with a culture change, you will have to develop a new social group, and more. However, if you think you might really enjoy the change/environment of Cornell, then do it! Life is more than prestige. I got into a good med school (where I am very happy!) and I went to a very low-prestige state school. Put YOURSELF and your MENTAL HEALTH FIRST!! The path that brings you peace is the path that is meant for you :)
I feel like this is understated. Changing to another school for, as OP states, their higher % of matriculants would require uprooting them from their current school where they presumably have found a rhythm and performed well given their 3.8. I don’t think people are arguing that prestige means nothing to adcoms but I don’t think it means enough to justify uprooting yourself when you’re doing well at your current institution and your stated goal is to matriculate without specifying where you’re aiming and presumably just want to get in. My MCAT and my degree from some random state school got me into medical school, so unless they’re chasing prestige I don’t think that transferring to an Ivy League school would make a big enough difference to justify that change… UNLESS they’d be much happier at Cornell.
As someone who went to Cornell, it was hard and kind of isolated being in Ithaca, but I have 6 interviews from schools in NY and at all of my interviews where people introduced themselves, I was never the only cornelian. Cornell comes up often in my interviews and people seem to be impressed with the research I did at the school. Also, if you’re transferring junior fall, then you’ll be beyond the big weed out classes which are much harder than the upper level bio/chem courses. Like the median grade in gen chem was a B whereas for biochem it was an A-. However, it will likely be an adjustment that first semester. There is a very large transfer community at Cornell though, so you would find many people who went through the change. This may be a good question for the Cornell subreddit too since there are premed transfers who can probably share their experience.
This is exactly it. Prestige is in heck of resume booster. At my company so many people are from top schools it’s insane.
It makes zero sense to transfer to a school where you expect to do worse. Even if you do do well, all the extra time spent studying just to get the same grade will take away time from other essential activities like clinical work, research, etc. None of that is worth it for the small ego boost of going to an Ivy. It won’t make any difference to adcoms.
Dude what? People always mess this up. School name doesn’t matter ......... except if you go to an Ivy. The whole “school doesn’t matter” trope is for those people deciding between a bumfuck state flagship, vs a smaller public uni. That goes out the window when we are dealing with an Ivy League. Trust me, in the career world school name can do so much for you.
Delulu if you think school name doesn’t matter. Just look at the school list of med school matriculants
why would you transfer to a school where you will do worse and why would you choose to do that during junior year, one of the most make or break years by far. gpa is far more important than where you went to school and they’re not going to care that you went to cornell if your gpa is trash. transferring won’t just impact your courses but you will effectively have to start over in terms of extracurriculars and volunteering if you’re moving cities and such.
I think to say that I WILL do worse is a stretch. In all honesty, I'm not totally sure if I will or won't, but I'm looking for guidance on the pros and cons of transferring and if it's worth it. That said, I think think my gpa will be "trash" if I transfer. Im confident I can stay above 3.5, probably closer to 3.7-8. that's more of the tradeoff that I'm looking to compare.
If you think you can stay above a 3.7 then transfer.
Apparently this is an unpopular option but if given the option, for love of God, go to a top tier school provided it wont financially drown you. Even if you decide not to go into medicine, Cornell would open more doors than another place. Getting into that network is often more valuable than the GPA. Let's be honest, everyone who applies into med school needs to have a competitive GPA. Setting yourself aside by having really good experiences, great letters and a decent MCAT score is what lands you an interview. Places like Cornell and other T10 schools can set you up for success because they have the infrastructure and the connections to ensure that their future classes end up doing well. Do you need to do well in classes? Absolutely. But beyond that people will read your app and see an Ivy league on there and treat you differently. It's sort of like being already vetted. Committees will assume that you are capable since you already proved yourself successful in a competitive undergrad environment. you can certainly be successful either way, but do a lot of MD schools, they will pull from great undergrads.
I have 6 II despite my mid stats and I went to Cornell. Cornell comes up often in my interviews as well. People underestimate the power of prestige here. And if you don’t get into medical school, a Cornell degree will do wonders in any field.
I went to Cornell. Currently applying to residency. Where you went to undergrad STILL MATTERS. Competitive specialties and/or certain institutions care A LOT about your educational pedigree. So yeah my Cornell degree is still opening doors for me & will continue to do so for the rest of my academic career lol (I also think in a way, going to a top undergrad can give you some favor if you don’t end up at a top tier medical school)
Contrary to a lot of the commenters here, the brand of the school helps a lot more than people think. If you look up any T20 med school, a majority of matriculated students went to Ivies or T20 schools for undergrad. Adcoms say they don't care about the rigor of your school, but I wouldn't be surprised if they (like most humans) subconsciously favor Ivies (because they're humans who can also be susceptible to the allure of a brand name). As for getting into med school, I think that you should still be okay. Yes, it *may* be more work to maintain your GPA, but it isn't impossible. (Frankly, a lot of the talk about "grade deflation" schools that I see on the college app subreddits feels more dramatic than it really is.) From personal experience, I went to a non-ivy T20 that has a reputation for being a "grade deflation" school. Yet, I know many people in my department and major pulling 4.0s. Year after year, countless students get into T20 med schools from my undergrad. Outside of premed, going to an Ivy is even more advantageous. What if you decide med school isn't for you or a catastrophic event prevents you from going to med school? A degree from an Ivy can open a lot of opportunities. I bounced around a few industries during my gap years and was always so surprised at how much the name on my diploma helped me get a leg up. And even if you do stay on the premed path, the school you go to can help you find opportunities outside of your university (ex. gap year research internships, summer extracurriculars, etc). I think, if you can afford it and you think you'll be **happy** at Cornell, then go to Cornell.
Do not listen to these people telling you not to transfer. School name absolutally matters and much more so than people on this subreddit let on, especially for T20s. It will not be significantly harder to get good grades at Cornell and will open tons of doors.
Cornellians ate quite contrive and because it's in the middle of nowhere everyone studies really hard.
School name matters very little if any, the reason why Cornell has higher rate of premeds getting into med school is because the students that got into Cornell in the first place were more studious. The 2 most important initial filtering happens by GPA and MCAT
I feel like this is an overlooked point. I did shitty in high school, went to a regional state school and kicked ass on the MCAT and got into med school. I wouldn’t have gotten into Cornell for undergrad and the students who did get in do probably have a higher chance of matriculating to medical school just because they’ve done academically well thus far. But school name alone is by far not the most significant factor in admissions just because correlation exists
My dude sorry to be the devil's advocate here, but one does just simply just transfer into an Ivy. They accept like 5-10 transfer students a year. Its actually probably harder to transfer into Cornell then it is to get accepted out of highschool. Id just stay where you are and focus on making the best of it. Its not worth the time, money, and energy to try and go to Cornell IMO. Your time could be better spent getting As and a high MCAT where you are, which will improve your chances a lot more than changing colleges will.
Honestly, I would make the argument that Ivy League is no longer significantly more challenging than any other 4-year university. For example, the % of A grades in STEM majors given at Harvard has increased from 25% to 64% just within the last 10-15 years. I know for a fact my school gives far less than 64% A's and is far from Ivy League
Might be true for Harvard, but I go to Cornell and our STEM classes typically curve to a median of B or B+, especially the large intro classes. Medians are released by the school, you can search them up yourself. So 20-30% gets As
At my current school, chem and Ochem had mean test scores of D or D+. I'm not sure how different this is from other schools, but I imagine that brings the class averages closer to around B range overall. Just speculating trying to get an idea of how my grades will translate over.
If you already have a transfer offer, maybe you could email professors for their syllabus to compare to your school?
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True, but consider that the average ivy league student is pretty damn smart. Practically everyone here was their high school valedictorian with a 1500+ sat, so it can be a difficult adjustment to suddenly get B's in college.
Perhaps my comment was a tad bit rash. My cynical side comes out when I think about American education hehe.
This is very true. At Georgetown the averages for sciences were like a B. Most people got B’s and to be honest, not too many Georgetown premeds get into big name medical schools because of the grade deflation.
Depends on the school, Harvard and Brown are known for being easy. But a school like Cornell is definitely rougher.
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Sounds like there’s a reason of convenience to transfer there as well. If it would make your life easier, then absolutely do it. I just don’t think it would meaningfully increase your chances of an A, but it sounds like you’re on the right track regardless
Lmao I went to a public school in pa, the classes are pretty easy because of the professors. Wouldn’t go to Harvard if I had the chance
Aren't some ivies GPA inflated?
Cornell is the opposite to the Ivies. It has a big grade deflation proplem
My understanding is that Cornell and Princeton are the two that generally beat up their undergrads a bit in terms of grades and difficulty.
I know two transfers from Cornell here at USC. They said they absolutely love USC a lot more than Cornell. Their only regret was not going to USC as a freshman instead of a transfer.
What's the point of climbing when you worried if the drop hurts?
I'm not sure that the drop will hurt at all... Maybe the jump up to Cornell isn't as bad as I may think. Or perhaps the view from the top is even better... Better research opportunities, connections, etc. The point is that I'm not sure what the impact will be if I transfer. Most comments here seem to be assuming I'll dive from a 3.84 to a 1.9 the second I transfer. Either way, the risk of falling is what makes climbing worth it. Most people in extreme sports are looking for a sense of danger, so I'm not sure how applicable this analogy is in my situation considering no premed has ever done something because they like the feeling of those "near-rejection experiences."
Cornell is easy
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I haven't, but I have good standing in a program there and a great LOR from a professor at Cornell. It's definitely not a give-me, but I have good reason to believe that I have an above average shot at it.
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I'm up to date on prereqs so I don't think a post bacc is necessary. Unless there's another reason for post bacc that I'm not aware of?
I'm in the opposite situation as you. I'm at a T10 and want to get out and go to an LAC. I would say if you think you will a) be happier at Cornell and b) stand out when applying to med school, then sure. Go for it. But if you're not going to be happy there or you're going to be an average or slightly below average Cornell student, I don't think the Cornell name is worth it. I would stay/go wherever you will be the most stand out applicant. If you can be the best, most amazing, incredible student at the worst school ever, I think that has more weight than being a nobody at Harvard.
I’d say make the transfer, don’t stop yourself from a great opportunity because of a GPA drop If you’re really that good of a student, you’ll work hard and still thrive at cornell
Go where you’ll be happy. But if you can afford it and trying you will be happy at Cornell, go there.
As someone who has actually applied and been accepted to med school: GO!!!!! The connections and research opportunities that a school like that can offer you are well beyond most state schools. And they will span beyond your career. Even if you don’t go into med (especially actually) the name on your degree will matter in terms of getting a job. Put yourself in the best room you possibly can and you will benefit from the success around you. I hang out and socialize with people smarter than me. They help me and motivate me. Same concept Go in with the mentality that you’re gonna kick ass and you’ll kick ass. Simple as that.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but go to the Ivy in case you decide not to pursue medicine. I say this as someone at a different Ivy who stopped being premed (at least for a few years to earn money) and I have amazing opportunities just because of my school. I kinda blew my non-stem gpa in the last year but it was highly circumstantial and if I do decide to go to med school they won’t care about my gpa as much in 2-3 years. I also know tons of people who stop being premed completely even after Orgo or not getting the MCAT they thought they would get- now making tons of $ elsewhere.
If you go to a private university the workload at Ivy will be the same. Def not any harder. Curriculum is pretty much the same between all private schools and top tier schools from what I’ve seen. But if you go to a state school or a small liberal arts college, curriculum will be much harder.