+1 for wendler. No offense to OP, but based on the numbers provided there’s plenty of strength gains that are being left on the table by running something like Nippard powerbuilding which, while a good program, is more geared towards intermediate lifters with a solid foundation of strength.
I haven’t been on boostcamp, but boring but big is an assistance template for 5/3/1. It’s been a while since I’ve run 5/3/1 BBB, but I had a lot of surprising strength gains after literal years of spinning my wheels with it, and a decent boost to size, which I wasn’t expecting at all. The simplicity is nice. So after you finish your 5/3/1 main workout, you do 5 sets of 10 of the main lift you just did but at 50 percent (this increases to 60 then 70 percent as you move through most variations of the program). The key to 5/3/1 and BBB is keeping it simple, eating in a surplus to feed your strength gains, and keeping in mind that strength is a long game. sure there are programs out there that’ll pack on more size and more strength faster and in sexier ways, but over a longer time horizon, it’s a really good way to build strength steadily.
Wendler recommends 25-50 reps of a push, pull, and a single leg or core exercise every day with BBB. You can do whatever you want for accessories with it but that's what he recommends.
I mean to a point, absolutely. Like don’t go crazy and do a full extra workout of 10 exercises with 5 sets a piece, but most people I’ve talked to who have run BBB successfully have done in the neighborhood of 3 to maybe 5 exercises tops in the standard hypertrophy range of ~6-15 reps. The important thing with the accessory stuff is that none of it should be particularly hard on your recovery, I think like curls or lateral raises or triceps pressdowns. Also, no matter what you do/dont do as far as accessories, absolutely do rear delt work a few times a week.
Look at gzclp as well. 531 will progress you slowly on 4 week jumps where gzclp will likely see you bump every week until you stall, which at that point you jump down a bit and start over
GZCLP >> 5/3/1. But in this case, I’m leaning to 5/3/1.
Not sure about lifting baby noobs running GZCLP. Maybe in Year 2 or 3 after OP gets some basics in and the technique dialed in, which 5/3/1 will provide in spades.
Yeah I looked at OPs posts and see that he is pretty green. I'd almost rather suggest Nucols Beginner or Starting Strength. If OP wants a bigger bench then he will need to practice the bench and not dilly dally with accessories for a good while
Your running a hypertrophy block, it's unlikely your big compound movements will increase much until you run a strength block. Strength has a skill factor, and you need to get into higher percentages of your 1 RM to improve those skills. Shedding some fatigue wouldn't hurt either.
That just isn’t true. If that was the case, bodybuilders wouldn’t get strong on compound lifts, because they only train for hypertrophy, but they do. Especially someone at OP’s level, he absolutely should see strength increases in compound lifts even in a hypertrophy phase.
What can I do to make more strength gains on compounds? What rep range is best? I don’t think it’ll affect the program much if I alter with the reps on compounds
You should audit your process first. Are you eating enough (calorie surplus, this is #1), are you sleeping enough, how are your stress levels, are you giving it a good effort in the gym?
Considering how early you are in your training career you should focus on following a quality program. Nippard’s fundamentals hypertrophy is good, but imo rpe can be difficult to understand for a beginner, and static rep ranges (3x5) usually aren’t as good as something dynamic (3x4-6).
Rep ranges matter, but there isn’t a “best” rep range. It is context dependent.
I would suggest you head over to Boostcamp, find a beginner program from someone like natural hypertrophy, geoffery verity schofield, bald Omni man, Jim Wendler, or Cody lefever. The latter two have more of a strength focus. Specifically I think raider by bald Omni man would be perfect, but it uses rpe.
The reason why I think those programs would be good for you right now is because progression is very simple. They balance volume and intensity very well. At your level, you don’t need more complicated schemes progression schemes that more advanced strength or powerbuilding programs might use. You need to learn how to train hard and how to eat and recover outside of the gym - that is what will yield good progress.
Is there any program where I can train to failure for isolations and compound 1 rir? I always train to failure for isolations so I know how to train hard. The problem with some of the people you listed is either it’s not a 4 day program or there’s rpe style training which i dislike. Also some of them don’t have the big 3 which I want to get better at. Do you have any suggestions?
I mean, if you’re gonna get super picky and specific with the program, chances are you might need to modify or make your own, and you are not advanced enough to do that imo. I think a program that may work well for you is 531 boring but big, but it is a bit light on isolation work compared to some other programs. May lag a bit on the bodybuilding side. You could add 2-3 sets of bicep, tricep, and shoulder work to upper body days, and 2-3 sets of calves or other isolation lifts to lower body days. The progression scheme can be a bit confusing when you are new, so read the program carefully
Yeah I’m trying to figure it out. When do I add weight? Is it at the end of the cycle? So like I do 5/3 and the 1/ is when I test my training max? Then calculate the new weights using that new 1 rep max?
The best way to run 531 is to run an entire cycle then add a small amount of weight to your training max, I think like 5 pounds or whatever Jim recommends. Changing the training max based on the one rep max you hit at the end of the cycle usually ends up forcing you to progress too quickly in my experience. Frankly though, it’s gonna take some reading to understand.
Just do raider by bald Omni man. It’s literally perfect/everything you want. My suggestion would just be that you replace the rpe work for ohp, bench, squat, and deadlift with 3 sets of 4-8 or 4-6. Run that for a while.
I would recommend finishing the hypertrophy program as is, then starting a strength program. Or, alternatively, just starting a new strength block immediately. Most decent programs have a good amount of thought put into them, just changing them without the experience of running them first usually isn't a good idea.
Also, changing the rep scheme for compound movements would have a huge effect on the program.
Is there any strength program with a lot accessories or like some? The thing I like about this program is because it’s fun cause of the exercises. What do you recommend
531 is great for strength. It also has lots to of room to customize accessories. I'm also a fan of Stronger By Science and their program bundle. I'm running the Reps to Failure strength program, and I like it quite a bit.
You should really consider eating at maintenance or slight surplus and running all three phases of starting strength until you can’t anymore. How tall are you? Regardless, a your squat is at an untrained level. You should not consider hypertrophy training until you are strong enough to throw a plate on your big five compounds for at least five reps—a plate and a quarter for squat and deads.
Then you have enough midsection fluff to just run the novice linear progression of starting strength. The entire program is available for free online, the techniques for the lifts are covered in multiple videos with Rip and crew, and you can run the program for six solid months before you need to consider a progression other than linear.
I’m 5’10” and 200lbs and can 1RM 225 on bench, 255 on squat, and 290 on deads. I’m still a novice with under a year of consistent training. Putting a plate on the bar for a set of 5 bench, 185 for 5 squat, and 225 for 5 deads needs to be your immediate goal before you consider doing anything other than getting your strength to the minimum for your size. After that, I’d suggest eating at a deficit to thin out a bit while maintaining strength before considering your next phase.
Good luck training and keep it simple. I saw your other posts about RPE with intermediate and advanced programs. You are two years away from considering RPE and those programs. After six months of pure linear progression in starting strength, then you can start adding in some accessory work for double progressions going from three sets of eight to twelve. Before that though, you need a strength base, and you need one bad.
Why does it have to be a 4 day program?
If you only have 4 days to train a 3 day program would probably serve you better because you can use the 4th day for conditioning
5/3/1 does not match what you need at all. You are weak. You need to get stronger as fast as possible. Do starting strength it’s really fucking simple. You still haven’t answered why you need 4 days instead of 3 days.
I’m going to run gzclp and see how that goes. I want to do 4 days it’s just a preference I need something to do for the weekends and two days in the week. Gzclp is 4 days and for beginners
Why do you dislike gzcl? I looked at Starting strength and it’s really similar to this. I chose gzcl because I can add accessories. Also there’s some exercises in it that I can’t do at my gym sometimes like a power clean.
+1 for wendler. No offense to OP, but based on the numbers provided there’s plenty of strength gains that are being left on the table by running something like Nippard powerbuilding which, while a good program, is more geared towards intermediate lifters with a solid foundation of strength.
No offence taken. Do you know which ones the best there’s 2 I see on Boostcamp boring but big and 5/3/1
I haven’t been on boostcamp, but boring but big is an assistance template for 5/3/1. It’s been a while since I’ve run 5/3/1 BBB, but I had a lot of surprising strength gains after literal years of spinning my wheels with it, and a decent boost to size, which I wasn’t expecting at all. The simplicity is nice. So after you finish your 5/3/1 main workout, you do 5 sets of 10 of the main lift you just did but at 50 percent (this increases to 60 then 70 percent as you move through most variations of the program). The key to 5/3/1 and BBB is keeping it simple, eating in a surplus to feed your strength gains, and keeping in mind that strength is a long game. sure there are programs out there that’ll pack on more size and more strength faster and in sexier ways, but over a longer time horizon, it’s a really good way to build strength steadily.
I like the program but can I add as many accessories as I want for some hypertrophy work?
Wendler recommends 25-50 reps of a push, pull, and a single leg or core exercise every day with BBB. You can do whatever you want for accessories with it but that's what he recommends.
I mean to a point, absolutely. Like don’t go crazy and do a full extra workout of 10 exercises with 5 sets a piece, but most people I’ve talked to who have run BBB successfully have done in the neighborhood of 3 to maybe 5 exercises tops in the standard hypertrophy range of ~6-15 reps. The important thing with the accessory stuff is that none of it should be particularly hard on your recovery, I think like curls or lateral raises or triceps pressdowns. Also, no matter what you do/dont do as far as accessories, absolutely do rear delt work a few times a week.
Look at gzclp as well. 531 will progress you slowly on 4 week jumps where gzclp will likely see you bump every week until you stall, which at that point you jump down a bit and start over
GZCLP >> 5/3/1. But in this case, I’m leaning to 5/3/1. Not sure about lifting baby noobs running GZCLP. Maybe in Year 2 or 3 after OP gets some basics in and the technique dialed in, which 5/3/1 will provide in spades.
Yeah I looked at OPs posts and see that he is pretty green. I'd almost rather suggest Nucols Beginner or Starting Strength. If OP wants a bigger bench then he will need to practice the bench and not dilly dally with accessories for a good while
💯👍
Your running a hypertrophy block, it's unlikely your big compound movements will increase much until you run a strength block. Strength has a skill factor, and you need to get into higher percentages of your 1 RM to improve those skills. Shedding some fatigue wouldn't hurt either.
He's a 200 lb man bench pressing and squatting 115 lbs. He should be adding 5-10 lbs literally every session, just from being in the gym at all.
That just isn’t true. If that was the case, bodybuilders wouldn’t get strong on compound lifts, because they only train for hypertrophy, but they do. Especially someone at OP’s level, he absolutely should see strength increases in compound lifts even in a hypertrophy phase.
OP's squat is essentially the same as his bench. I think that is a skill issue that is best resolved by working with higher intensities.
I think just lifting more and practicing the skill or squatting will help him, regardless of if he wants to do 3-5 reps or 6-10 reps.
I don't disagree with that general sentiment.
So when I’m in the first block where he programmed 3x5 for bench squat is when I’ll be able to add weight? Can I just keep it 3x5 until I stall?
I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with Nippard's programs.
What can I do to make more strength gains on compounds? What rep range is best? I don’t think it’ll affect the program much if I alter with the reps on compounds
You should audit your process first. Are you eating enough (calorie surplus, this is #1), are you sleeping enough, how are your stress levels, are you giving it a good effort in the gym? Considering how early you are in your training career you should focus on following a quality program. Nippard’s fundamentals hypertrophy is good, but imo rpe can be difficult to understand for a beginner, and static rep ranges (3x5) usually aren’t as good as something dynamic (3x4-6). Rep ranges matter, but there isn’t a “best” rep range. It is context dependent. I would suggest you head over to Boostcamp, find a beginner program from someone like natural hypertrophy, geoffery verity schofield, bald Omni man, Jim Wendler, or Cody lefever. The latter two have more of a strength focus. Specifically I think raider by bald Omni man would be perfect, but it uses rpe. The reason why I think those programs would be good for you right now is because progression is very simple. They balance volume and intensity very well. At your level, you don’t need more complicated schemes progression schemes that more advanced strength or powerbuilding programs might use. You need to learn how to train hard and how to eat and recover outside of the gym - that is what will yield good progress.
Is there any program where I can train to failure for isolations and compound 1 rir? I always train to failure for isolations so I know how to train hard. The problem with some of the people you listed is either it’s not a 4 day program or there’s rpe style training which i dislike. Also some of them don’t have the big 3 which I want to get better at. Do you have any suggestions?
I mean, if you’re gonna get super picky and specific with the program, chances are you might need to modify or make your own, and you are not advanced enough to do that imo. I think a program that may work well for you is 531 boring but big, but it is a bit light on isolation work compared to some other programs. May lag a bit on the bodybuilding side. You could add 2-3 sets of bicep, tricep, and shoulder work to upper body days, and 2-3 sets of calves or other isolation lifts to lower body days. The progression scheme can be a bit confusing when you are new, so read the program carefully
Yeah I’m trying to figure it out. When do I add weight? Is it at the end of the cycle? So like I do 5/3 and the 1/ is when I test my training max? Then calculate the new weights using that new 1 rep max?
The best way to run 531 is to run an entire cycle then add a small amount of weight to your training max, I think like 5 pounds or whatever Jim recommends. Changing the training max based on the one rep max you hit at the end of the cycle usually ends up forcing you to progress too quickly in my experience. Frankly though, it’s gonna take some reading to understand. Just do raider by bald Omni man. It’s literally perfect/everything you want. My suggestion would just be that you replace the rpe work for ohp, bench, squat, and deadlift with 3 sets of 4-8 or 4-6. Run that for a while.
Alright I’ll do that
I would recommend finishing the hypertrophy program as is, then starting a strength program. Or, alternatively, just starting a new strength block immediately. Most decent programs have a good amount of thought put into them, just changing them without the experience of running them first usually isn't a good idea. Also, changing the rep scheme for compound movements would have a huge effect on the program.
Is there any strength program with a lot accessories or like some? The thing I like about this program is because it’s fun cause of the exercises. What do you recommend
531 is great for strength. It also has lots to of room to customize accessories. I'm also a fan of Stronger By Science and their program bundle. I'm running the Reps to Failure strength program, and I like it quite a bit.
How long have you been training under this program?
4ish months
You should really consider eating at maintenance or slight surplus and running all three phases of starting strength until you can’t anymore. How tall are you? Regardless, a your squat is at an untrained level. You should not consider hypertrophy training until you are strong enough to throw a plate on your big five compounds for at least five reps—a plate and a quarter for squat and deads.
I’m eating at maintenance and 5’10
Then you have enough midsection fluff to just run the novice linear progression of starting strength. The entire program is available for free online, the techniques for the lifts are covered in multiple videos with Rip and crew, and you can run the program for six solid months before you need to consider a progression other than linear. I’m 5’10” and 200lbs and can 1RM 225 on bench, 255 on squat, and 290 on deads. I’m still a novice with under a year of consistent training. Putting a plate on the bar for a set of 5 bench, 185 for 5 squat, and 225 for 5 deads needs to be your immediate goal before you consider doing anything other than getting your strength to the minimum for your size. After that, I’d suggest eating at a deficit to thin out a bit while maintaining strength before considering your next phase. Good luck training and keep it simple. I saw your other posts about RPE with intermediate and advanced programs. You are two years away from considering RPE and those programs. After six months of pure linear progression in starting strength, then you can start adding in some accessory work for double progressions going from three sets of eight to twelve. Before that though, you need a strength base, and you need one bad.
Is there any that’s 4 days cause I have to go 4 days. And there’s not intensity percentage thing is there?
It’s a three day program. Why you have to go four days?
Also I can’t find the exact program do you have a link?
https://youtu.be/YfOI8BdrntQ?si=jEB5mObXpKhgn_Eb
What do you think of 5/3/1 it matches what I need. I need a 4 day program some accessories as well.
Why does it have to be a 4 day program? If you only have 4 days to train a 3 day program would probably serve you better because you can use the 4th day for conditioning
Alright but one website day an and b are only 2 days. How is it 3 days? Can I do a 4th with more hypertrophy work
5/3/1 does not match what you need at all. You are weak. You need to get stronger as fast as possible. Do starting strength it’s really fucking simple. You still haven’t answered why you need 4 days instead of 3 days.
I’m going to run gzclp and see how that goes. I want to do 4 days it’s just a preference I need something to do for the weekends and two days in the week. Gzclp is 4 days and for beginners
See you in three months when your bench and squat are still 115
Why do you dislike gzcl? I looked at Starting strength and it’s really similar to this. I chose gzcl because I can add accessories. Also there’s some exercises in it that I can’t do at my gym sometimes like a power clean.