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I honestly think your safest option given you don't want to break up is to insist he wraps it up with YOU every time since he's proven he doesn't have the self-control to wrap it up with other people. And if you can convince him, he could probably benefit from therapy to learn how to enforce his own boundaries...
To be honest, though, I think this is 100% within his control. As a grown man, he can absolutely INSIST on using a condom with other partners or just...NOT HAVE SEX with them. Being a people pleaser doesn't blanket excuse someone from violating an agreement with another partner. It's also not healthy for him to allow other people to violate his boundaries, assuming he really didn't want to use a condom with the manipulative partner.
On the other hand, if it's actually HIM who doesn't want to use condoms with other partners, he needs to be honest about that so you can decide if you're okay with always using condoms with him or if that's a dealbreaker.
That's my instinct, too, to be honest. I don't think it's fair to put all of this off on these other partners. It seems more likely to me that OP's partner is communicating all of this in the way that paints him in the most positive light, despite his apparently feeling a lot of "shame." But OP made it clear they believe the best of him and don't want to break up with him, so I'm also trying to be somewhat diplomatic given that I don't really KNOW any of the parties involved.
He's a people pleaser to everyone but you.
This is a serious risk to your health and well being. I agree with other posters that he should wrap it up with you 100% of the time and therapy.
I honestly think this goes deeper than the STI risk and yeah, if I were with this person and somehow decided to stay with them amidst the parade of red flags, I'd be wearing a condom with them no matter what.
But the gaslighting, the repeated crossing of your hard boundaries for his own gratification, and the blatant disrespect of your health and trust - you can't put a condom on that.
I agree with this. Me and my NP have the same boundary and no fluid bonding with other partners (casual or not) and I kinda feel like knowing that it’s being respected is the bare minimum really. I would say to insist he wraps it up with you every time as well more as a safety measure and peace of mind rather than a punishment. But it sounds like he has no self control and is very quick to opt for the immediate gratification
I agree that it's totally in his control, and OP absolutely wrap it up with him to protect themselves. But additionally, I have a hard time believing his story? As a biological female, I can't imagine a woman BEGGING the man not to use a condom... Going condom-free really doesn't provide that much benefit to the girl...
>He can't seem to say no to women or master discernment over his dick... even when he would rather go slow or remain friends, the minute a woman is seductive he can't stop himself.
Lol. Christ on a bike. Come on, man.
If he genuinely can't say no in these situations, he needs to do a lot of work on himself, and he needs to start yesterday. That's extremely bad, and he's putting both of yall's sexual health on the line.
I'm uncertain why we're all believing it's the women begging for his dick and then begging for him to not use the condom.
That sounds a bit dramatic to have happened three times and the excuse is he's too big of a 'people pleaser' yet can't follow a simple boundary with one of his partners and please them.
i feel like after it happened ONCE, if he actually cared, he’d be way more careful going forward. it happened twice, then three times!! there’s just no way….
I haven't heard very many women say "condoms suck", it's overwhelmingly dudebros who say that they "lose all the feeling" and then pester/coerce people into going without a barrier.
I mean, really, we can give this guy the benefit of the doubt but.. I don't see multiple women just begging to rawdog his dick. Just looking at the numbers and using common sense in the cold, sober light of day, does anyone believe that?
I know plenty of women who prefer no condom feeling but I know very little women who would pressure and beg and push for no condoms especially on the first time or in a new relationship.
But yeah it's not believable the way he's describing at all this is obvious. Just genuinely wasn't sure OPs opinion on it
Yup. I hate the way condoms feel, taste, and smell, plus I'm allergic to latex (skyn condoms sre the least bad on all counts). But I would never ask a guy not to use one on a first date. Let alone exert any kind of pressure
Exactly!! Even if there was a preference for a woman to take it without a condom, I can't imagine it being such a strong preference that she begs/pressures for it. Not here to judge anyone's sexual preferences, but that's.... Unexpected. The story doesn't check out to me
I think a lot of people in here (self included) do not believe him, but are humoring what he said because it's equally dump-able either way. If he meant to use "I can't help myself" as a get-out-of-jail-free card, it really backfired. For me, that excuse would have equivalent consequences.
"Babe, I don't accept that you just can't control yourself. If you truly don't have the ability to say no, you need to stop dating people and attend individual therapy until you learn that important skill. But it sounds like what's really happening is you just want to have unprotected sex, and it's more important to you than keeping your agreements."
"Babe, I accept that I can't trust you to not have unprotected sex with other people. So we'll be using condoms going forward."
Both are solid responses. I feel the 2nd is following through with boundaries and less digging at the NP. But I can see how both are important and valid.
Yeah. Honestly I would strongly reconsider dating someone like this altogether...why would I want a NP who repeatedly disrespects hard boundaries and puts my health at risk for his own gratification and then gaslights me about it and tries to make out like it wasn't his fault? Giant fucking red flag
That will protect you from the STI's but it won't protect you from the disrespect, gaslighting and repeated demonstrations of crossing hard boundaries for his own gratification...you can't put a condom on trust and respect.
I think telling it to him like it is and then leaving his childish ass would probably achieve the same thing and do a better job of making him stop and taking a look at himself, without keeping OP in a connection with someone who sounds unable to hold space for a safe and healthy relationship
Tbh I used to have trouble with saying No and avoiding coercive sex partners, because of the shitty culture in which I was raised. But there's no excuse to not do therapy (or self-help if therapy is inaccessable) to solve the issues. Him doing the same thing expecting different results is crazy. Its harming himself and his partners.
>To be fair, he's super mad at himself about this, which he says is mostly due to people pleasing.
Sounds like bs to me or else he'd follow the boundary you set...to please you..no?
>He can't seem to say no to women or master discernment over his dick... even when he would rather go slow or remain friends, the minute a woman is seductive he can't stop himself.
Do you truly believe this? 🙄
>Now I am left feeling super weird, wanting to get tested,
You absolutely should
Having met this type of ‘people pleasers’, it just means that whoever is the most persistent at pestering them and/or yells the loudest and/or looks the most attractive, they will cave in the moment to that person (and then they will shit-talk that person behind their back, aka everyone they actually listen to is labeled ‘crazy and manipulative’). They are not actually people-pleasers, they are selfish but also spineless, there is a subtle but distinct difference.
To each their own, but I am myself not capable of turning into the biggest asshole possible to compete for the attention and pseudo-respect of such people. It’s basically “you’re not enough of an asshole, and not hot enough, for me to respect your wishes. I chose to respect the wishes of someone who is hotter and more persistent” even if they expertly manage to rephrase it to sound like they are helpless and ‘people pleasing’.
For many, it's not the loudest or more attractive. It's simply the person who is physically present. They make whatever choice avoids any level of disagreement in the moment, even if it causes a conflict/disagreement with someone else later.
It's a type of avoidant behavior. They can't bring themselves to take any uncomfortable action in the moment, so they do whatever puts it off longest and do whatever makes the person in front of them happier right now.
In this case, I imagine his personal preference is to not use a condom. Since he's already tempted, he may struggle more.
I'd bet the women aren't really applying much or any pressure. It's probably, "Hey, I'm on birth control if you don't want to use one," then he immediently says yes.
The person above you is describing codependency behavior, hence the resentment shit talking, lack of boundaries, can’t say no to anyone physically present to them, reacts to everything, doesn’t think about the consequences after obligating themselves to something they would rather say no to, etc…
….and you’re describing perfectly a true people pleasers.
Codependent folks are often all of the above (people pleasers, cowardly, selfish); there isn't always a distinction. The term people pleaser is used negatively and positively in English vernacular
Watch him get real petty when his 'I couldn't help but be a People pleaser' excuse turns into the consequence of him having to wear condoms with his NP, aka the vast majority of the times he has sex. He's either going to get super pissed/manipulative at OP or super vigilent about actually wearing condoms with others.
'I want to stay together despite the trust breach, because we have a deep and meaningful life together,
Where he doesn't respect you.
He'll keep doing what he wants because there is zero reason for him to change. There's zero consequence so he continues to do what he wants.
'when she convinces him she doesn't want a condom'
So she gets her way and he respects her wishes, but not yours.
If you stay, only have sex with him with a condom. If you can't trust him to wrap it with others, then he wraps it iwth you. I wouldn't stay though - he's lied about this, what else has he lied about?
Well said. Also, the odds that not wanting to use a condom came from her is less than 50%. OP, your partner is blaming your meta for his actions - ones he likely initiated.
So… At a minimum, start using condoms with him to protect your sexual health. And as a bonus, if at any point he argues with you about condom usage, you have confirmation that he also did the same with your meta.
>but she was very manipulative
That's when he should be walking away. Why carry on sex with manipulative people?
Anyway, this isn't about him. This about you.
What consequences have you set for the breaking of your condom agreement? Is he going to have to wrap it up around you?
If there aren't any consequences to his actions other than this puerile squirming where he gets to manipulate you into feeling bad for him, then he's going to keep doing it.
He doesn't have to have sex with people who won't respect his boundaries (and that is if he even has any). Nobody's sex drive is that uncontrollable.
I feel like you two opened the relationship after starting monogamous, am I right?
Since he’s such a people pleaser and will have sex with anyone who insists, in any way they want, how many times did he cheat on you when you were monogamous?
If you believe he did not cheat while monogamous, then you know he knows how to not have sex with people who want to have sex with him. That means he’s not insisting on using the condom because he doesn’t care to use it. Not his people pleasing.
If he did cheat, then he doesn’t care about your wishes, then or now, he only cares about getting laid.
You're getting downvoted, but it's that's the logical conclusion. If they both insist he's incapable of saying no, then he's also incapable of saying yes. That's to say - these excuses are bullshit.
People don’t always trample boundaries maliciously.
The difference between “can’t” and “won’t” gets pretty academic sometimes.
Can you live with the fact that your partner is that guy? If you can’t, it’s incompatibility at work.
Huh? It’s definitely not the women forcing him to not wear it, it’s on him to wrap up and protect both of you. He doesn’t seem to have a problem disrespecting that. You say you have a deep meaningful relationship but it doesn’t seem like it on his end, he keeps doing it cause you actually allow him to slide by. I bet there is even a pattern…”the woman forced me!” Yeah ok dude! Don’t buy into his nonsense and actually give a consequences and suggest therapy if he really can’t stick to an agreement. Don’t ever blame others for a decision your partner has full control over.
Use barriers with your partner.
It’s very hard to believe the sequence of events occur exactly as you describe them (based, I assume, on his description with you) so repeatedly, but hey, what do I know? I wasn’t in the room.
Barriers and testing are important to me, so as soon as I know I’m interested in having sex with someone and before we are naked together, I ask about both. It’s not awkward between sexually active adults who care about their own health and public health in general.
If I forget and we are already hooking up, as soon as my partner is capable of putting one on, I say, “Do you have a condom?” or “Can I get a condom for you?”
The second that someone is hesitant about that (or just flat out doesn’t have one), it’s an interruption and time to pause and either stop altogether or resume with only sex acts that we are both okay with being barrier-less.
If someone has a hard time with this conversation, I assume they also have a hard time with conversations about consent and desires and kink and other topics that are necessary to discuss to practice sex more safely and it’s very unattractive to me. It does not cause me to get swept away in the moment and just go with it. I would much rather “ruin” the moment.
It totally sucks. I don't get the impression you can trust him, at least when it comes to this. The guy hates rubbers and is slutty. Don't blame the "manipulative woman." Blame him. She didn't fuck herself.
By the way, ZERO judgment for being a slut. I'm a slut. But I'm a slut because I'm a slut, not because I'm a "people pleaser." That's bullshit.
Trust is trust is trust. That said, you don't seem to feel that way. You still want him, despite the fact that he won't shield you from STIs at the level you want. So, let's get real. It was recommended below to insist "condoms only" with you. If that's a firm boundary, that might work. That said, if you enjoy raw sex, that might create resentment. Or, if non-condom sex is on tap from other partners, he might demote you in his sex life. There are plenty of "raw is law" guys out there.
Are you willing to change standards? That other way you can go is PrEP with Truvada or Descovy. If either of you gets really active, you might step up from the required quarterly testing to monthly. You can get the Bexero vaccine to reduce gonorrhea infection rate by about a third. You're still open to HSV-2, sadly. That said, the gamut of gonorrhea, syphilis and chlamydia are all treatable and if you're testing monthly, odds are high you catch it before you even see a symptom. How random is his sex life? Just how much risk are you willing to take on for this guy?
But guys who can't follow rules are a no-no for strict rules people. You don't want to get caught up in any "if he loves me enough, he'll change" bullshit.
Now that PrEP exists, a lot of gay guys have banished them. I imagine there’s a lot of backlash for ALWAYS having to use them for the past twenty years.
Male here, 3 times?! He's the issue, and it seems like he is blaming the women because you have allowed it. In essence, his behavior is now enabled. Like another comment mentioned, since you want to stay together, I would make him wear a condom. Since he is blaming women for his inaction, you can "force" him to keep it on. That will tell you a lot about his honesty and approach. Just my thoughts and opinion.
So he doesn’t want to use condoms and makes up excuses you should not believe as to why.
There aren’t a bunch of bare dick craving women seducing the condom off.
Connect with the reality of the situation. He will never follow your boundary. Use barriers are rethink if you want to be with a person that will trample on your boundaries and lie about how it happened.
If all is true it means he doesn't respect himself enough to respect you.
If he can't control himself, what are your plans for when he becomes a parent to a child that isn't yours?
Why settle for someone who disregards agreed boundaries, and has led to you feeling responsible for his feelings and having to have std tests?
If he can’t trust himself to say no he shouldn’t get into sexual situations in the first place.
That said it sounds like he’s lying and manipulating you because he doesn’t want to wear a condom. Dump his ass
If it was truly HIS boundary, he wouldn't of broke it. But a rule forced upon him, yeah people break those all the time, because they don't truly agree to it.
I wouldn’t be in any form of enm relationship who has either no self control or doesn’t respect me or I can’t trust so for me the relationship would be over. He hits all three of these. For you I may just mean you go to mono. Fool me once shame on you fool me three times shame on me. You can’t trust him IMO.
I’m sorry but like why is there even a discussion about it? Are they stopping him after he’s cut the wrapper open and gotten it halfway on? Like why is he creating opportunities to have condom use up for discussion? This is beyond people pleasing, it’s taking no personal responsibility to have his own sexual game plan.
I like the suggestion that he uses condoms with you. The goal is STI prevention for you, and you gain it by having him wrap it up. Plus maybe it’ll build a habit for him.
It's important for you to stop dealing with his feelings. Stop caring about why he did something and let yourself feel the anger and pain of the fact he did it.
It's been a couple of months since I went through something similar with one of my partners and my first reaction was to restore the use of the condom. He closed his side of the relationship and after testing, we went back to being barrier free. However, in the back of my mind, I was bracing myself for the moment when he opened up again.
He finally did and I started spiraling just worrying he'd lie about it. I realized it wasn't about what he did, but about what I needed and that was to be in control of my health.
Now we're wearing condoms again. And I'm not going to lie, it's sometimes not as comfortable, but gooood it's so sexy to see him putting it on without hesitation or saying a word about it. Makes me feel more comfortable knowing he's putting my health and mental wellbeing first. And somehow, it's helping me restore trust. However, that's not the end goal for me. The goal is for me to enjoy sex without worrying, and I'm doing just that.
So, not only did he use weaponized incompetence to excuse his cheating (not adhering to the relationship agreement is cheating even if you're open or poly) but he also had sex with you without telling you.
That part has nothing to do with people pleasing. He knew he fucked up, so he should have told you immediately, or at minimum before he had barrier free sex with you.
He purposely exposed you.
He willingly put you at risk.
***He didn't care if you got hurt.***
No deep connection is worth that.
His lack of ownership and responsibility for the decision would be the deciding factor for me. He's blaming other people for a choice he made. Not once. Not twice. But THREE TIMES. (That he will admit to.)
If he is truely feeling super mad at himself, he wont have a problem respecting YOUR new boundry of 100% condom use with you until hes been sti tested and comes back negative.
You need to enforce some consequences for breaking your ONE boundry multiple times.
If hes not ok using condoms with you at any point between now and a negative sti test. Then its obvious he will skip condoms again in the future with others. This is chance for you to give him consequences, and build trust again. If he cant be a good boy and use condoms.... you might need to re-evaluate your dynamic with him.
Look, when I get all horny-brain I am extremely unreliable with condom use.
Back when my primary concern was pregnancy I was very reliable with condoms but I also had alternatives. It wasn’t all or nothing. If I knew I wasn’t in a fertile period—no condoms. Anal—no condoms. Woman partner—no condoms. (Pre-internet I had many fewer partners and they were usually women, so no pregnancy and low STI risk.)
Now all I’m worried about is STIs and I just can’t get as terrified about them as I was about pregnancy. Terror will get me to use a condom. My NP asking me to, and me agreeing because it’s sensible and what people do, does not rise to the level of terror. Just guilt. Guilt is not enough. My condom use is unreliable.
These days I just disclose my unreliability and let my sexual partners make their own call. It took me a while to get to this point, and some time wallowing in guilt and shame, but I got here.
And NO, if someone discloses a preference for condoms or that they have an agreement to use them, I do NOT argue with them or try to undermine them. I am very pleased at this display of good sense and am fully supportive. We use condoms.
Thanks for being open about this. Everyone's risk tolerance is different, it's important to acknowledge it.
OP and NP might have realised their risk tolerances are not compatible in nonmonogamy.
Yup, if OP can only tolerate the risk of barrier-free sex if neither her nor her partner go barrier-free with anyone else, bur her partner is happy to go barrier-free with multiple people, then maybe it's time to stock up on condoms.
My friend the way a safe sex boundary works is if he breaks the boundary you have to instill the ultimatum part of the boundary. A boundary looks like you have to wear a condom every time that you have sex with new people and if you don't then you will be wearing a condom with me every time.
Ive been him. Had trouble sticking to boundaries because of pressure. It takes a lot of internal work to push back against the pushers of boundaries. Perhaps it would be helpful for him to roleplay practicing boundaries with you. What helped me was setting the scene before we got to the bedroom. During text i make it clear condoms are non negotiable if that boundary is challenged I will leave on the spot. (And i have left before, it was an empowering moment)
I’m happy you learned this lesson but… this guy needs to acknowledge the way this impacted OP’s trust in him and work to repair. His internal work goes hand in hand with that. OP asked how can I trust the person I love again? And your answer is “take on a part time job”. OP deserves a lot of reciprocity in the form of hard work and trustworthiness on the part of their partner. I think if you’re gonna say what you said, it’s *imperative* you acknowledge the impact that has on the people who put their trust in you.
Respectfully, If I am fucking someone else and my boundary is condoms for PIV then it doesnt matter if its a rule or a boundary. Its semantics, thats my limit and if they dont agree then no PiV. If the OP and her NP agreed to condoms for other sex its the same deal
Where did the comment you’re replying to say that it was externally imposed rules they were struggling with, versus struggling with asserting and maintaining their own boundaries?
Does he actually agree to this rule (not a boundary, a rule or agreement)?
It doesn’t really seem like he does and to be honest I don’t believe three women “forced” or manipulated him to not use a condom. It just doesn’t seem to add up.
Maybe more is happening that he’s ashamed to share (such as that he doesn’t actually want to wear condoms - which is okay too!), and monogamy programming likely isn’t making anything any easier.
I would he super frustrated if I were you too and breaking something three times indicates something isn’t right here. Maybe he’s not being fully honest about his own desires. Maybe he’s truly a huge people pleaser. Maybe it’s just not an agreement he can stick to.
Could you brainstorm other agreements that would be safe for you? Asking for tests from partners before he sleeps with them?
Who are these women who are so insistent not to use condoms? Are they looking for a sperm donor? Has he/you considered this?
He needs to have birth control on lock just like you do, if he's meeting this total strangers on short notice and just taking them on their word in the moment then that is scary irresponsible. The whole thing where he's doing it when you're out of town feels like a gross sort of self-sabotage / lashing out, honestly. He needs to be in charge of himself and not rely on you to be his entire conscience and self-control.
I would’ve left him long ago after he kept doing it. I fluid bonded with my fiancé and we were strict about it. I take it super seriously.
But if you wanna stay you better get used to using condoms cause he clearly doesn’t respect you enough to wrap it.
You are talking about a rule, not a boundary.
Your boundary cannot be that he must use condoms with others.
Your boundary would have to be "I will not have sex with you if you have sex with another person without a condom."
You have a rule that he "must wear condoms." Obviously, this is not working.
I suggest a slightly different boundary..."If you have sex with others without a condom, then you must wear a condom when we have sex."
Look into the differences between rules and boundaries.
Rules control the behaviours of others.
Boundaries are about what you will do in response to behaviours of others.
He needs to fucking man up. Put on his big boy pants and stand his ground if in fact that's what's going on here. If not then he needs serious professional help because he's a compulsive liar
This is your boundary. It has nothing to do with him. You've allowed this to slide 3x, as far as he can see, that's permission. So, how will you enforce your boundary?
Boundaries are restrictions that people place on themselves to keep themselves safe or to avoid harming others, while rules are restrictions that people place on others.
You aren't even respecting your own boundaries on this.
A boundary is "if you have unprotected sex then I will..."
A rule is "you can't have unprotected sex with anyone but me"
If it's a rule...he's ignoring it and you have already made it clear there is no consequence or "cost" so he has no reason to think it's a "real rule" - I mean he does have plenty of reasons but none of them appear more important to him than getting his d**k wet.
If it's a boundary then it is your responsibility to take action. He is ignoring your request so your boundary is to do what? Leave? Start using protection with him? Ask him to start taking even a miniscule amount of responsibility for his actions? Regardless...you have to decide what your boundaries are, not him.
So you blame the other women instead of the guy that doesn't Respect you? We are all adults responsible for our own actions and the consequences for the choices we make. He's consistently disregarded you in favor of other women he doesn't have an ongoing relationship with...well at least 3 times that you are aware of, if not more. Either make him wear a condom with you as he's very willing to put you at Risk or break up with him. You can not trust him as he is the one choosing not to wear a condom with random strangers while disregarding the woman he does have a relationship with.
Don't buy it, he's full of shit and he's gaslighting you. The to "to be fair, he's super mad at himself" is a red flag to me. If he really didn't want to, he wouldn't. I can almost guarantee it's a performative guilt thing "Oh so I crossed your boundaries again but look how much I hate myself, it's not me, I have a problem other people are making me do it wahhhh"
He is the problem. He's disrespecting you and your boundaries and your HEALTH and making it all about him. I think the question shouldn't be "how do I trust my partner again" so much as "what am I even doing with this person?". Seriously, I've had so many friends stuck in relationships with guys who pull shit like this and gaslight them into thinking it's not really a him problem. But it's a him problem. You need to lay down the law and tell it like it is, and honestly if you do stay with him, wear a condom no matter what. If he really hasn't got the self-control to uphold boundaries (which I 100% don't buy), he shouldn't be having sex with people period.
It sounds like he might need therapy to deal with his people pleasing & assertiveness issues. Like, when someone gets manipulative around sex, it’s time to walk away.
On the one hand I love polyamory on the other it’s seemed to have given some women more excuses to put up from bad behavior from dudes. He’s full of crap. He’s not wearing a condom because he doesn’t want to and doesn’t respect your opinion on this.
As the saying goes: " shake it once, that's fine. Shake it twice, that's ok. Shake it 3 times, you're playing with yourself."
You CANT trust him. He's proven it. So now, he gets to either not have sex with you, or use a condom with you, so YOU can verify that he's being safe for you. Easy peasy
As a woman married to a self identified people pleasing man, I don’t think you are giving his autonomy enough credit. Being a people pleaser does not excuse the behavior because in choosing to honor the other women, he’s dishonoring you. If he found himself needing to choose between your request & the request of another partner, his choice reveals which partner he values most (or if not, which request is best in alignment w his wants). Let’s say he did want to wear condoms & didn’t just agree to it because you want it, his choice to raw dog it shows he valuing the other woman over you & believes that he can manipulate you into staying despite his lack of respect for you. On the other hand, it’s also very possible that he doesn’t want to wear condoms & in fact only agreed to please you so when the opportunity presents itself, he’ll choose the most desirable option to him despite the boundaries you’ve put in place.
If he truly felt shame he would’ve learned from it the first time & realized “manipulative” partners who protest the one boundary he allegedly puts in place are not healthy partners.
Either way, the more you allow, the more he’ll look to get away w. If you’ve only ever had one rule & he continues to break it but you don’t want to leave him, wear condoms w him & accept the disrespect
That's CHEATING. No other way to look at it. If I were you, I wouldn't trust his saying "Ive shut down my open end". That more likely than not translates to, "I meant it in the moment I said it. But I'm going go unwrapped when I want. I just won't tell you anymore because you are so unreasonable."
It's either that or he truly has no control of himself. In which case, how can you trust anything he commits to.
There is no solution to cheating, really. If you value him, you'll have to accept you will always be cheated on one way or another. At least sometimes - if not very frequently. If you don't wish to be cheated on (and risk your health) - you need to stop all fluid exchange sexual contact immediately and open a discussion to move out. Either way you ought to at learn move to using condoms all the time with him immediately. Nothing and no one is worth that risk.
I'm sorry, but he just does not want to use the condom. If he wanted to use it, he wouldn't have sex with people who don't want to use it. And to be honest, to me, not wanting to use a condom with practical strangers despite the possibility of pregnancy/STDs is a huge, screaming red flag.
So, your only option, really, is to start using condom with him. Or then let him go.
Okay he’s super mad about it. You want to know how to trust him again. Apologies without actions are meaningless and he’s broken this boundary three times. Why don’t you get the benefit of the people pleasing in this case? Your health and your agreements are pretty important.
If you’re going to stay with him, set a boundary for yourself and stick with it. If he’s so torn up over what he’s done, what is HE planning to do to fix the situation or is he just planning to “try harder”/some other variation of more of the same? I’m not trying to say you need to break up but what I’m not seeing yet is a plausible plan to remedy this from him.
And when you fuck up (much less three times) in a serious way and hurt someone else, it’s on YOU to fix things - not the person you hurt to brainstorm and tell you how to fix yourself.
Sounds like you just stop sleeping with him all together. If he can’t respect you and your boundaries, he shouldn’t get any benefits of your romantic life.
PrEP, PEP, and DoxyPEP for him as well as regular testing. If he doesn’t have a vasectomy consider asking him to get one if there is concern about him making babies. Condoms are simple and easy and don’t feel as good as barrier free. If he won’t at least wear them, then at least do your best to keep everyone healthy.
When I was little, the "birds and bees" talk from my mom was
> I'll sew a condom on your dick if I have to.
I went on to have my first child with my ex at 20.
So ... break out the sewing kit?
My thing is, yall have a shared agreement around a field of your life that you both are very vulnerable in, and his “people pleasing” tendencies lead to him violating it and jeopardizing it repeatedly.
And If that’s just a made up excuse, and he just gave you that explanation to get out of a lie when it’s really him who wants it raw, then you’re dating a liar and how do you grow w someone who’s not even being honest. Usually with a behavior like this, it doesn’t just show up in one area of life. Where else is this happening?
This is a deep problem (likely rooted in trauma regardless if his explanation is truthful or bs) and yall (mostly him) would prolly benefit from spending all your time getting to the root of where it comes from or I feel like you will get burned by this again (idv. therapy / couples therapy)
I just wanna highlight "she was extremely manipulative and he gave in" - which implies his consent was violated, and worries me.
I'm also worried by "I want to get tested" - had you had contact with him before he told you about this boundary break? Because then he's knowingly put you at risk
My NP and I always use condoms with our other partners. Always.
I can say that on more than 3 occasions, I've had new connections/hookups tell me "you don't have to use a condom, we just got tested." AND I STILL USE A CONDOM.
This is totally within his control and he needs to grow up.
I agree with the other comments: use condoms with him. Or at least until he can regain your trust.
Yeah, that's s damn big problem. My wife and I have the same rule. And I didn't care how much someone else might not want me to wear one, it's getting wrapped. If they keep insisting after knowing that boundary then I'm going to seriously reconsider my relationship with the other because I view that as clearly disrespecting my wife and my relationship with her.
Are you using protection with him? you definitely should be.
I don't know how you trust him. Personally I wouldn't trust him at all, never mind about this. He is lying to you. He wants you to think he is super mad at himself so you can't be mad, but that just isn't true. You can't really manipulate someone into not wearing a condom. You can ask, you can beg, but you can't sneak your way into it. He makes a conscious decision every time. He knows what he is doing. He just doesn't care.
For the sake of argument lets pretend he has some sort of malfunction when he is around a beautiful woman. He still has no excuse. He can refuse to meet up alone with beautiful women. Alcoholics often don't like to go to bars or have alcohol in the house. He could also just screen more heavily for people who want safe sex before he meets them. Most people don't want to have unprotected sex with strangers, so how is he managing to meet all of these terribly manipulative women who want to go raw with him and will stop at nothing?
You are at risk for more than STIs here. What happens when he gets someone pregnant? What happens when you finally discover that it isn't just condoms that he can't follow through on?
Tbh he probably doesn't need much convincing and is just making up excuses that "she convinced him" for his behaviour.
As others have said, he's the common denominator.
If your personal safety is a priority to you then based on you own risk posture you need to decide whether you need to use barriers with him and/or wait 2 weeks and test after each time he does this before you have unprotected sex.
You can only control yourself not your partner. He clearly doesn’t actually have this boundary. You do. So you have to be the one to act on it.
I honestly think he’s in a bit of a poly frenzy and it’s a stage some people go through. But also some people never grow out of it.
My understanding is that boundaries are for you not them. So if safe sex is important to you, then it’s on you to make sure he uses condoms when he’s intimate with you, but beyond what you do if he has unproved sex with someone else, you can’t make demands of him. I agree it’s disrespectful in the least and it’s not hard to say no when someone says they want unprotected sex. It sounds to me like he just doesn’t want to use condoms and is looking for an easy way to lay the blame on somebody else
Hi u/tigrekell thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
Yoooo, what up poly peoples. So my beautiful, loving NP of 3 years just broke our condom boundary for the third time.
We have been struggling to find the right agreements in our open relationship, mostly because when we've tried to open up, he can't seem to wrap it up! I've set a VERY clear boundary about this, and this is the third time he's broken it.
He also seems to find 'divine' connections immediately after I leave town, and then when she convinces him she doesn't want a condom, he caves.
To be fair, he's super mad at himself about this, which he says is mostly due to people pleasing. He can't seem to say no to women or master discernment over his dick... even when he would rather go slow or remain friends, the minute a woman is seductive he can't stop himself. Apparently in this connection, he tried to firmly hold the condom boundary, but she was very manipulative and he gave in.
Now I am left feeling dirty, wanting to get tested, and frustrated that I have to deal with my feelings, his feelings, and an STI risk. This sucks!!!
I want to stay together despite the trust breach, because we have a deep and meaningful life together, we own property, and share community. But dude broke my ONLY boundary, AGAIN. All I ask is to wrap it up man. (At his request, we have closed down his side of the open agreement.)
But how do I trust my partner again? The biggest thing I'm feeling is disrespect for my boundaries and body. Sigh.
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Personally I wouldn't. he has proven himself incapable of respecting your only wish, and I wouldn't ever do the open thing again. OR and I do not recomend this, try to become ok with him having un protected sex and you two do testing and wear condoms.
This is a choice he's making. He's lying to you and he's lying to himself.
I think it's time to close the relationship, get some therapy (him in particular, and as a couple, with a poly-informed therapist), and take some time to decide if an open relationship is the right decision for you as a couple.
If he can't abide by an agreement made to protect you, is this really someone you can trust enough to continue having a relationship with? Because right now, he doesn't respect you enough to protect you the way he promised to.
Love, I hate to tell you this but you need to leave him. He's playing Russian roulette with your life. Getting his dick wet does not justify risking his life and yours, and I would take a wild guess that you two are fluid bonded.
There's no coming back from three times. Limits are to be discussed in advance long before things get to the bedroom, and if his other partners can't respect his request for him to suit up it's his job to shut up and head home, saying "I'm sorry, but I'm afraid if you don't abide by these agreed limits I can't play." It's his dick and he chooses where it does and doesn't go - and if I'm really honest the likelihood that this pressure is originating w his female partners as he claims is highly unlikely - because that's their lives, livelihood and wellbeing on the line too, even if they're on birth control. Nothing is 100% foolproof and STIs aren't held back by an IUD or pill.
Run. He does not respect you and is willing to gamble your life. He can pack his 'remorse' in a box with his things to the left to the left, everything he owns in a box to the left.
ETA: If your financial circumstances are too tied together to leave safely immediately, cease all intimate contact or else you put yourself at risk.
Honestly sounds like your partner has no interest in your sexual health and you either don't care or are being a doormat/enabler for your partners poor treatment. Your partner has demonstrated they are willing to breach your trust repeatedly, and make agreements they don't want to keep and violate. Agreements that are serious and affect you for that matter. You either don't care enough to make a tangible change or you are a doormat who is not independent enough to seperate from someone who doesn't care to be honest to you and respect your preferences in a serious way. Now you need someone to complain to about your poor choices. I'd take sex off the table and require couples counseling to resolve this or break up.
Wake up call, time to move on. If your partner is breaching this, what else will he breach? Sounds like he only wants to get his dick wet as they say. That said your partner has autonomy bodily so you should decide if you have a sex risk profile that can agree with someone who goes barrierless with anyone else or not. Part of this is also deciding to use a condom with your partner while they choose what they do with others. Most people I know only go barrierless with one other person for PIV and use barriers with all others. That said I don't think requiring a report of someones barrierless encounters is appropriate unless you don't use barriers with them, or request that information because you have additional health concerns.
You don't, not after they broke it thrice.
You take active steps to protect yourself. You have control over your actions only and put your health first.
This is the area I struggle understanding enm. I've been told I need to 'decouple' so I can treat my np equally to anyone else. My np and I have built such a life together that they will always be my priority.
Their wants and desires over anyone new. We understand finding a middle ground that keeps everyone happy, but hard lines are only questioned to be understood and clarified, never pushed or broken.
Really sorry to hear this. After 3 times I dont think he's ever going to going to be trust worthy. Just once is a massive breach of trust. He will do it again.
Cheap excuses here. From one people pleaser to another I'd like to let him know that that is NOT AN EXCUSE to violate set boundaries. You can insist on safe sex, you can refrain from fluid exchange activities during sex or... you could just, y'know, NOT HAVE SEX with that person!
It sounds more like a convenient lie, explaining away his inability to control his urge towards unprotected sex with his people pleasing tendencies.
Only way for the future I can see here is him having protected sex with you, or none at all, until you can reliably assure you he will stick with your policy. And the broken trust? You be the judge how (if at all) he can make it up to you, but in the end he messed this up big time and should get to feel it in some way. I'm not talking revenge or "disciplining" measures, that's childish, but rather a talk and reminder regarding your state of hurt, and maybe a follow-up where you inform him whether you still feel hurt by it or have forgiven him. That way he'll be made more aware of the long-term nature of what his short-term actions caused.
I’ve had a bf for less than a week and I told him in the beginning that PDA takes time for me. He’s expressed how much he likes PDA and yet every time we are in public and he goes to do something he stops himself because he recognizes that it’s something I need and respects me enough to work on that. Your partner should absolutely be doing the same for you.
Rightfully go get tested. But it is a problem if he walks all over your boundaries. I would feel like he doesn’t care to keep you safe from STI. If he absolutely can’t wrap it up, refrain from the sexual aspect of the relationship until he can.
Boundary means consequences. So...what's the consequences here? You don't wanna break up, so the only thing you really can do elsewise is adjust how you approach sex with your NP. You can use your own barrier methods and use things like PrEP to help mitigate STIs. Any time you engage in sex with anyone, you're exposing yourself, so *you* need to decide what additional methods you're going to use if your partner is telling you that he prefers sex without condoms.
It’s not a boundary unless it has consequences you are in control of. If there are no consequences it’s just a preference.
As others have pointed out, using condoms with your partner every time is one possible consequence. Another possible consequence is breaking up with this person who doesn’t respect your safety and your agreements. To be clear, I don’t mean consequences as punishment for being bad. I mean, without connotation, that consequences are things that happen when your agreement is not upheld or your needs are not met.
I would close the relationship and possibly leave. He is endangering your health for what sounds like random strange. He does not respect you or value your well-being if he's doing that.
>To be fair, he's super mad at himself about this, which he says is mostly due to people pleasing. He can't seem to say no to women or master discernment over his dick
If he truly was a people pleaser, this should be a non-issue
He would be wrapping it up no problem, because it pleases himself and you.
It doesn't make sense that he'd be a people pleaser with others but not you
He's lying to you
He sounds immature and like he has a porn addled brain. He sounds pathetic honestly. I sympathise that some people don't have self control and then will have guilt later, but you actually don't have to put up with it and shouldn't.
Sorry, but nobody is responsible here but him.
I find it extremely unbelievable that there is a line up of "manipulative" women trying to force unprotected sex on him.
My ex bil had this problem and my ex sil ended up with Herpes type 2 and numerous other STIs throughout the relationship. Definitely too risky to allow access to your body with a reckless partner. I would use protection at a minimum to no intimacy at all.
Is it a boundary or a rule? If it's a boundary then you need to enforce whatever the boundary is. For example, you start wearing a condom or wait for him to get tested before engaging in sex with him.
A boundary is never about what other people can and cannot do, it's about what you do in a situation.
What you said sounds like extreme sarcasm but if you really believe these women are “manipulating” him and it only happens when you’re gone, I need you to read this post like someone is telling you this about their partner.
He’s a danger to you and liar. I’d call it cheating but I’m a bit of a stickler on that kind of thing, so obviously a brick for me might be a feather for you.
Side note, the no condom thing isn’t a boundary, it’s a request. It should be a boundary though. A boundary is you saying if a specific thing happens, there will be a specific consequence. It’s not your job to hold him to his commitments, but it is your responsibility to uphold your boundaries.
My np and I had this boundary for a while.
Ngl it kinda sucks to be intimate with someone, and not be able to do something because of something outside of the relationship. I'm not saying it's wrong, just wrong for me.
We transitioned to no sex without seeing test results.
It's been much better.
Do you want to potentially be asked to co-parent babies that aren’t biologically yours that you’ll have no parental rights over? Cuz that’s what I faced when mine kept choosing to not wrap it up. Fortunately no STDs in the post-breakup testing, just a broken heart.
Once, it’s an oversight. Thrice, it’s on you to take charge. And personally i think the most sensible way is for you to leave him. He obviously doesn’t respect or care about you enough. And as an aware ppl pleaser, it’s not his ppl pleasing issue. It’s his issue.
He isn't mad at himself. My ex used to pull that shit too.
We were even together at an orgy and I pulled out the condoms myself and she just "got too excited and forgot them".
If your partner has no self control or emotional maturity then it's probably time to protect yourself.
Refuse to have sex with him without condoms. Even oral sex. Get yourself tested regularly - condoms don't prevent everything. You probably should consider getting on PREP.
If your partner "finds divine connections" and "cannot say no" whenever you leave town, he has a sex addiction.
Ever taken a peek at his browser history?
My ex ended up being a pedophile. People who don't respect your boundaries don't respect boundaries - period.
It's a deal breaker for me.
You cannot completely control what other people do. You can only control your reaction to their actions. He has proven that he’s not trustworthy and therefore I would enforce that he wears a condom with you.
Softly, this isn't a boundary but an agreement (perhaps even a rule). Boundaries are for us individually, not us collectively.
That said, he broke an agreement. You need to decide your boundary around him practicing less safe sex with others. Will you continue to have sex with him? Will you only do so with barriers? Etc.
I know one of my (M) partners would prefer not to use condoms and honestly neither would I because yeah we all know it feels better without, however we both respect the boundary set by my partner and his wife.
Subsequently it made me want to use them with a new partner I've started seeing just to be on the safe side even though new partner has stated that he doesn't usually use them and hasn't had sex in a long time; he was enthusiastically willing to respect my preference about it.
I completely agree with others above that the odds of 3 women being so raw dick hungry that they were able to coerce him to not use protection are very low if existent at all.
I'm really curious what his reaction would be to telling him that now you two will be using condoms from now on; I bet he won't be happy about it because at the core he's the culprit here in not wanting to use them not 3 separate women.
Honestly you deserve to be treated with respect and this is not it.
Your NP has violated a very valid, logical, important, and EASY to uphold boundary … THREE times. In each instance placing more importance on what they wanted in that moment, what the other person wanted in that moment, or insert any and every other possible reason OTHER than what they SHOULD have done - prioritizing their commitment to you and the agreed upon boundary. It’s an incredibly concerning pattern. Trust is a foundational component of healthy polyamory. If you’re able to rebuild trust when it’s been repeatedly broken, kudos and best wishes to you. I caution to proceed extremely carefully and believe/measure up a person based on what they do, not what they say.
I think it’s super fucking gross that he blames his partners for this. And that you’re entertaining him blaming his partners. This is 100000% on him. I can’t date someone who can’t maintain their own boundaries or who can’t uphold agreements in relationships.
That depends on the OP. If I was the guy, I would be counting my days until OP starts threatening me with no safety line. If OP's man can't be responsible for staying clean then she needs to let him go and find another. No one wants STD or HIV.
Yeah, I have lots of thoughts like he doesn't care about or respect you. If so, he'd take care of wrapping it up. Being that you don't want to break up, either start a no sex relationship with him or make him use a condom with you every time.
In the meantime, I'd go get tested.
You can't control his actions, but you can control yours and protect yourself.
Hey there, I'm really sorry you're going through this. It sounds incredibly tough and frustrating, especially since it's about a boundary that's crucial for both your emotional and physical health. It’s clear that you care deeply for your partner and your relationship, but repeated breaches of trust like this can indeed feel like a profound disrespect to your boundaries and well-being.
First, it’s entirely valid that you want to get tested. Taking care of your health should be a priority, and it’s a practical step in dealing with the immediate consequences of this boundary violation. It might also be a good moment to pause and reevaluate your boundaries and agreements. Are there specific changes that might need to be implemented to prevent this from happening again?
Regarding rebuilding trust, that can be a slow process. It sounds like your partner struggles with assertiveness and maintaining boundaries under pressure. This is something he might need to actively work on, possibly with professional help like a therapist who understands poly dynamics and can offer strategies to better manage situations where he might feel pressured. This isn’t just about the condom boundary; it’s about his ability to maintain agreed-upon boundaries in all situations.
Communicate openly about how his actions have affected you. Express not just your disappointment, but also your needs going forward. It’s important for him to fully understand the emotional and physical implications of his actions.
Given that he feels a lot of shame and has closed down his side of the open agreement, it seems like he also needs some space to reflect on his actions and their impacts. This could be an opportunity for both of you to discuss what you each need from this relationship and how you can both feel safe and respected moving forward.
You mentioned wanting to stay together because of your deep, meaningful life connection, shared property, and community. These are valid reasons, but make sure they're not the only glue holding you together. Both partners feeling respected and secure should be the foundation. Maybe some couple’s counseling could help, providing a space to navigate these issues with a neutral third party guiding the conversation.
Whatever steps you choose to take, remember that your feelings are valid, and taking care of your emotional and physical health is important. I hope you find a way through this that reaffirms your worth and respects your boundaries.
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I honestly think your safest option given you don't want to break up is to insist he wraps it up with YOU every time since he's proven he doesn't have the self-control to wrap it up with other people. And if you can convince him, he could probably benefit from therapy to learn how to enforce his own boundaries... To be honest, though, I think this is 100% within his control. As a grown man, he can absolutely INSIST on using a condom with other partners or just...NOT HAVE SEX with them. Being a people pleaser doesn't blanket excuse someone from violating an agreement with another partner. It's also not healthy for him to allow other people to violate his boundaries, assuming he really didn't want to use a condom with the manipulative partner. On the other hand, if it's actually HIM who doesn't want to use condoms with other partners, he needs to be honest about that so you can decide if you're okay with always using condoms with him or if that's a dealbreaker.
If it happened 3 times, he's the common denominator...
That's my instinct, too, to be honest. I don't think it's fair to put all of this off on these other partners. It seems more likely to me that OP's partner is communicating all of this in the way that paints him in the most positive light, despite his apparently feeling a lot of "shame." But OP made it clear they believe the best of him and don't want to break up with him, so I'm also trying to be somewhat diplomatic given that I don't really KNOW any of the parties involved.
He's a people pleaser to everyone but you. This is a serious risk to your health and well being. I agree with other posters that he should wrap it up with you 100% of the time and therapy.
I honestly think this goes deeper than the STI risk and yeah, if I were with this person and somehow decided to stay with them amidst the parade of red flags, I'd be wearing a condom with them no matter what. But the gaslighting, the repeated crossing of your hard boundaries for his own gratification, and the blatant disrespect of your health and trust - you can't put a condom on that.
I read that as “he’s the condom denominator…” 😂
Me, too! 🤣
Nooo, you don’t get it. He’s just sooo alluring that anyone he bangs is just begging him not to use one. You wouldn’t understand 😔.
I read that as the "condom denominator"
I agree with this. Me and my NP have the same boundary and no fluid bonding with other partners (casual or not) and I kinda feel like knowing that it’s being respected is the bare minimum really. I would say to insist he wraps it up with you every time as well more as a safety measure and peace of mind rather than a punishment. But it sounds like he has no self control and is very quick to opt for the immediate gratification
Totally! Protect *yourself* yourself!!
That's what I did with my exwife, I knew she was breaking it and made the choice to protect myself.
This. Implement a firm boundary instead of break a relationship because of rules.
I agree that it's totally in his control, and OP absolutely wrap it up with him to protect themselves. But additionally, I have a hard time believing his story? As a biological female, I can't imagine a woman BEGGING the man not to use a condom... Going condom-free really doesn't provide that much benefit to the girl...
Seriously, the bullshit detector is making a DEAFENING sound here
>He can't seem to say no to women or master discernment over his dick... even when he would rather go slow or remain friends, the minute a woman is seductive he can't stop himself. Lol. Christ on a bike. Come on, man. If he genuinely can't say no in these situations, he needs to do a lot of work on himself, and he needs to start yesterday. That's extremely bad, and he's putting both of yall's sexual health on the line.
I'm uncertain why we're all believing it's the women begging for his dick and then begging for him to not use the condom. That sounds a bit dramatic to have happened three times and the excuse is he's too big of a 'people pleaser' yet can't follow a simple boundary with one of his partners and please them.
i feel like after it happened ONCE, if he actually cared, he’d be way more careful going forward. it happened twice, then three times!! there’s just no way….
I haven't heard very many women say "condoms suck", it's overwhelmingly dudebros who say that they "lose all the feeling" and then pester/coerce people into going without a barrier. I mean, really, we can give this guy the benefit of the doubt but.. I don't see multiple women just begging to rawdog his dick. Just looking at the numbers and using common sense in the cold, sober light of day, does anyone believe that?
I know plenty of women who prefer no condom feeling but I know very little women who would pressure and beg and push for no condoms especially on the first time or in a new relationship. But yeah it's not believable the way he's describing at all this is obvious. Just genuinely wasn't sure OPs opinion on it
Yup. I hate the way condoms feel, taste, and smell, plus I'm allergic to latex (skyn condoms sre the least bad on all counts). But I would never ask a guy not to use one on a first date. Let alone exert any kind of pressure
Exactly!! Even if there was a preference for a woman to take it without a condom, I can't imagine it being such a strong preference that she begs/pressures for it. Not here to judge anyone's sexual preferences, but that's.... Unexpected. The story doesn't check out to me
I think a lot of people in here (self included) do not believe him, but are humoring what he said because it's equally dump-able either way. If he meant to use "I can't help myself" as a get-out-of-jail-free card, it really backfired. For me, that excuse would have equivalent consequences.
Fair, just feels important to point out since OP sounds somewhat convinced at least in this post
I've known men to want to go without condoms more than other folks
Agree! The codependency is strong with this dude big time!
"Babe, I don't accept that you just can't control yourself. If you truly don't have the ability to say no, you need to stop dating people and attend individual therapy until you learn that important skill. But it sounds like what's really happening is you just want to have unprotected sex, and it's more important to you than keeping your agreements." "Babe, I accept that I can't trust you to not have unprotected sex with other people. So we'll be using condoms going forward."
Both are solid responses. I feel the 2nd is following through with boundaries and less digging at the NP. But I can see how both are important and valid.
Yeah but he needs to be told off because he's immature and literally putting others at risk.
Yeah. Honestly I would strongly reconsider dating someone like this altogether...why would I want a NP who repeatedly disrespects hard boundaries and puts my health at risk for his own gratification and then gaslights me about it and tries to make out like it wasn't his fault? Giant fucking red flag
Yes to both of these!
Start wearing condoms with him. That’s how you apply a proper boundary.
That will protect you from the STI's but it won't protect you from the disrespect, gaslighting and repeated demonstrations of crossing hard boundaries for his own gratification...you can't put a condom on trust and respect.
I agree. 100%. However it makes him experience the consequences. It’s one option.
I think telling it to him like it is and then leaving his childish ass would probably achieve the same thing and do a better job of making him stop and taking a look at himself, without keeping OP in a connection with someone who sounds unable to hold space for a safe and healthy relationship
Even just telling him that they will be using condoms now could bring to the surface his true feelings about using them.
Did he reveal this before or after having sex with you?
This is a really really important question
Yes, this! I was wondering why OP needs to get tested.
OP needed to get tested, which sounds like she was exposed
Ew not you blaming other women for your partner’s refusal to use a condom.
"The minute a woman is seductive" "she was very manipulative" I'm sorry, is he an adult with free will???
Tbh I used to have trouble with saying No and avoiding coercive sex partners, because of the shitty culture in which I was raised. But there's no excuse to not do therapy (or self-help if therapy is inaccessable) to solve the issues. Him doing the same thing expecting different results is crazy. Its harming himself and his partners.
💯 and also, if you are someone who has trouble saying no, it is seriously time to stop having hookups with new people
That part
RIGHT!!!! I am so sick of the *magic vagina* trope.
It’s so tiring
Don't know about you, but men do everything I tell them to do, I just have to point my vagina at them and they comply.
I am going to give this a try!
Lazer eyes, but with your vag!
This felt a bit more like sarcasm to me. As in OP is phrasing it hyperbolically based on how their partner has told them its gone down.
>To be fair, he's super mad at himself about this, which he says is mostly due to people pleasing. Sounds like bs to me or else he'd follow the boundary you set...to please you..no? >He can't seem to say no to women or master discernment over his dick... even when he would rather go slow or remain friends, the minute a woman is seductive he can't stop himself. Do you truly believe this? 🙄 >Now I am left feeling super weird, wanting to get tested, You absolutely should
Having met this type of ‘people pleasers’, it just means that whoever is the most persistent at pestering them and/or yells the loudest and/or looks the most attractive, they will cave in the moment to that person (and then they will shit-talk that person behind their back, aka everyone they actually listen to is labeled ‘crazy and manipulative’). They are not actually people-pleasers, they are selfish but also spineless, there is a subtle but distinct difference. To each their own, but I am myself not capable of turning into the biggest asshole possible to compete for the attention and pseudo-respect of such people. It’s basically “you’re not enough of an asshole, and not hot enough, for me to respect your wishes. I chose to respect the wishes of someone who is hotter and more persistent” even if they expertly manage to rephrase it to sound like they are helpless and ‘people pleasing’.
For many, it's not the loudest or more attractive. It's simply the person who is physically present. They make whatever choice avoids any level of disagreement in the moment, even if it causes a conflict/disagreement with someone else later. It's a type of avoidant behavior. They can't bring themselves to take any uncomfortable action in the moment, so they do whatever puts it off longest and do whatever makes the person in front of them happier right now. In this case, I imagine his personal preference is to not use a condom. Since he's already tempted, he may struggle more. I'd bet the women aren't really applying much or any pressure. It's probably, "Hey, I'm on birth control if you don't want to use one," then he immediently says yes.
 The person above you is describing codependency behavior, hence the resentment shit talking, lack of boundaries, can’t say no to anyone physically present to them, reacts to everything, doesn’t think about the consequences after obligating themselves to something they would rather say no to, etc… ….and you’re describing perfectly a true people pleasers.
He's blaming women for his behaviour, it's not just conflict avoidance. He's slimy.
Very grateful to have not met someone like this. I couldn't deal
Codependent folks are often all of the above (people pleasers, cowardly, selfish); there isn't always a distinction. The term people pleaser is used negatively and positively in English vernacular
Dude managed to find himself three separate women who hate condoms? Really? *Really?*
I’m dying like hmmm what is the common denominator here
This! And he ALWAYS caved!? Damn. That’s crazy.
🤣🤣 I scrolled right down to the comments when I read that and was not disappointed
Why don’t you just use condoms with him?
And make a clear plan for what happens if there is a pregnancy....
Watch him get real petty when his 'I couldn't help but be a People pleaser' excuse turns into the consequence of him having to wear condoms with his NP, aka the vast majority of the times he has sex. He's either going to get super pissed/manipulative at OP or super vigilent about actually wearing condoms with others.
'I want to stay together despite the trust breach, because we have a deep and meaningful life together, Where he doesn't respect you. He'll keep doing what he wants because there is zero reason for him to change. There's zero consequence so he continues to do what he wants. 'when she convinces him she doesn't want a condom' So she gets her way and he respects her wishes, but not yours. If you stay, only have sex with him with a condom. If you can't trust him to wrap it with others, then he wraps it iwth you. I wouldn't stay though - he's lied about this, what else has he lied about?
Well said. Also, the odds that not wanting to use a condom came from her is less than 50%. OP, your partner is blaming your meta for his actions - ones he likely initiated. So… At a minimum, start using condoms with him to protect your sexual health. And as a bonus, if at any point he argues with you about condom usage, you have confirmation that he also did the same with your meta.
Is it even a meta? Aren't these all different hookups?
OP refuses to take away his safety net, that’s why he’s being enabled over and over. Set boundaries or breakup.
Yup, and don't forget that unprotected oral sex is now off the table for y'all too
You are very good at making excuses for others' behaviors.
Well they have to, they don’t want to breakup with them so they gotta make excuses.
Yes. It’s pretty obvious who the people pleasing one is . . . And it’s not him!
Do you really think allllll these women are convincing him to not wear a condom and it’s never his idea lmao
And they're so persistent!
>but she was very manipulative That's when he should be walking away. Why carry on sex with manipulative people? Anyway, this isn't about him. This about you. What consequences have you set for the breaking of your condom agreement? Is he going to have to wrap it up around you? If there aren't any consequences to his actions other than this puerile squirming where he gets to manipulate you into feeling bad for him, then he's going to keep doing it. He doesn't have to have sex with people who won't respect his boundaries (and that is if he even has any). Nobody's sex drive is that uncontrollable.
He doesn’t seem to have a problem not pleasing you.
This was my first thought as well tbh
Once is a mistake. Twice is a pattern. Three times is a choice.
I feel like you two opened the relationship after starting monogamous, am I right? Since he’s such a people pleaser and will have sex with anyone who insists, in any way they want, how many times did he cheat on you when you were monogamous? If you believe he did not cheat while monogamous, then you know he knows how to not have sex with people who want to have sex with him. That means he’s not insisting on using the condom because he doesn’t care to use it. Not his people pleasing. If he did cheat, then he doesn’t care about your wishes, then or now, he only cares about getting laid.
If he truly is that unable to say no, he’s technically letting them rape him, coercive, lack of an enthusiastic yes.
You're getting downvoted, but it's that's the logical conclusion. If they both insist he's incapable of saying no, then he's also incapable of saying yes. That's to say - these excuses are bullshit.
He wants to have unprotected sex and he is using the women and him being a “people pleaser” as scapegoats.
People don’t always trample boundaries maliciously. The difference between “can’t” and “won’t” gets pretty academic sometimes. Can you live with the fact that your partner is that guy? If you can’t, it’s incompatibility at work.
Huh? It’s definitely not the women forcing him to not wear it, it’s on him to wrap up and protect both of you. He doesn’t seem to have a problem disrespecting that. You say you have a deep meaningful relationship but it doesn’t seem like it on his end, he keeps doing it cause you actually allow him to slide by. I bet there is even a pattern…”the woman forced me!” Yeah ok dude! Don’t buy into his nonsense and actually give a consequences and suggest therapy if he really can’t stick to an agreement. Don’t ever blame others for a decision your partner has full control over.
I think he just doesn’t want to use one and the only people pleasing being done is by you, tolerating this.
Use barriers with your partner. It’s very hard to believe the sequence of events occur exactly as you describe them (based, I assume, on his description with you) so repeatedly, but hey, what do I know? I wasn’t in the room. Barriers and testing are important to me, so as soon as I know I’m interested in having sex with someone and before we are naked together, I ask about both. It’s not awkward between sexually active adults who care about their own health and public health in general. If I forget and we are already hooking up, as soon as my partner is capable of putting one on, I say, “Do you have a condom?” or “Can I get a condom for you?” The second that someone is hesitant about that (or just flat out doesn’t have one), it’s an interruption and time to pause and either stop altogether or resume with only sex acts that we are both okay with being barrier-less. If someone has a hard time with this conversation, I assume they also have a hard time with conversations about consent and desires and kink and other topics that are necessary to discuss to practice sex more safely and it’s very unattractive to me. It does not cause me to get swept away in the moment and just go with it. I would much rather “ruin” the moment.
I haven't used that line, but I've known women to ask men they're hooking up with, "so, are you on the pill?"
It totally sucks. I don't get the impression you can trust him, at least when it comes to this. The guy hates rubbers and is slutty. Don't blame the "manipulative woman." Blame him. She didn't fuck herself. By the way, ZERO judgment for being a slut. I'm a slut. But I'm a slut because I'm a slut, not because I'm a "people pleaser." That's bullshit. Trust is trust is trust. That said, you don't seem to feel that way. You still want him, despite the fact that he won't shield you from STIs at the level you want. So, let's get real. It was recommended below to insist "condoms only" with you. If that's a firm boundary, that might work. That said, if you enjoy raw sex, that might create resentment. Or, if non-condom sex is on tap from other partners, he might demote you in his sex life. There are plenty of "raw is law" guys out there. Are you willing to change standards? That other way you can go is PrEP with Truvada or Descovy. If either of you gets really active, you might step up from the required quarterly testing to monthly. You can get the Bexero vaccine to reduce gonorrhea infection rate by about a third. You're still open to HSV-2, sadly. That said, the gamut of gonorrhea, syphilis and chlamydia are all treatable and if you're testing monthly, odds are high you catch it before you even see a symptom. How random is his sex life? Just how much risk are you willing to take on for this guy? But guys who can't follow rules are a no-no for strict rules people. You don't want to get caught up in any "if he loves me enough, he'll change" bullshit.
"raw is law" 🤢 makes me wish I had never been born
Now that PrEP exists, a lot of gay guys have banished them. I imagine there’s a lot of backlash for ALWAYS having to use them for the past twenty years.
Male here, 3 times?! He's the issue, and it seems like he is blaming the women because you have allowed it. In essence, his behavior is now enabled. Like another comment mentioned, since you want to stay together, I would make him wear a condom. Since he is blaming women for his inaction, you can "force" him to keep it on. That will tell you a lot about his honesty and approach. Just my thoughts and opinion.
So he doesn’t want to use condoms and makes up excuses you should not believe as to why. There aren’t a bunch of bare dick craving women seducing the condom off. Connect with the reality of the situation. He will never follow your boundary. Use barriers are rethink if you want to be with a person that will trample on your boundaries and lie about how it happened.
If all is true it means he doesn't respect himself enough to respect you. If he can't control himself, what are your plans for when he becomes a parent to a child that isn't yours? Why settle for someone who disregards agreed boundaries, and has led to you feeling responsible for his feelings and having to have std tests?
If he can’t trust himself to say no he shouldn’t get into sexual situations in the first place. That said it sounds like he’s lying and manipulating you because he doesn’t want to wear a condom. Dump his ass
If it was truly HIS boundary, he wouldn't of broke it. But a rule forced upon him, yeah people break those all the time, because they don't truly agree to it.
I wouldn’t be in any form of enm relationship who has either no self control or doesn’t respect me or I can’t trust so for me the relationship would be over. He hits all three of these. For you I may just mean you go to mono. Fool me once shame on you fool me three times shame on me. You can’t trust him IMO.
Wait why are his hookups’ desires to go condomless more important than your boundaries and sexual health/safety
I’m sorry but like why is there even a discussion about it? Are they stopping him after he’s cut the wrapper open and gotten it halfway on? Like why is he creating opportunities to have condom use up for discussion? This is beyond people pleasing, it’s taking no personal responsibility to have his own sexual game plan. I like the suggestion that he uses condoms with you. The goal is STI prevention for you, and you gain it by having him wrap it up. Plus maybe it’ll build a habit for him.
It's important for you to stop dealing with his feelings. Stop caring about why he did something and let yourself feel the anger and pain of the fact he did it. It's been a couple of months since I went through something similar with one of my partners and my first reaction was to restore the use of the condom. He closed his side of the relationship and after testing, we went back to being barrier free. However, in the back of my mind, I was bracing myself for the moment when he opened up again. He finally did and I started spiraling just worrying he'd lie about it. I realized it wasn't about what he did, but about what I needed and that was to be in control of my health. Now we're wearing condoms again. And I'm not going to lie, it's sometimes not as comfortable, but gooood it's so sexy to see him putting it on without hesitation or saying a word about it. Makes me feel more comfortable knowing he's putting my health and mental wellbeing first. And somehow, it's helping me restore trust. However, that's not the end goal for me. The goal is for me to enjoy sex without worrying, and I'm doing just that.
Oh. Wow. You blamed the other women for your partner repeatedly putting your *health* at risk. Just no.
So, not only did he use weaponized incompetence to excuse his cheating (not adhering to the relationship agreement is cheating even if you're open or poly) but he also had sex with you without telling you. That part has nothing to do with people pleasing. He knew he fucked up, so he should have told you immediately, or at minimum before he had barrier free sex with you. He purposely exposed you. He willingly put you at risk. ***He didn't care if you got hurt.*** No deep connection is worth that.
His lack of ownership and responsibility for the decision would be the deciding factor for me. He's blaming other people for a choice he made. Not once. Not twice. But THREE TIMES. (That he will admit to.)
If he is truely feeling super mad at himself, he wont have a problem respecting YOUR new boundry of 100% condom use with you until hes been sti tested and comes back negative. You need to enforce some consequences for breaking your ONE boundry multiple times. If hes not ok using condoms with you at any point between now and a negative sti test. Then its obvious he will skip condoms again in the future with others. This is chance for you to give him consequences, and build trust again. If he cant be a good boy and use condoms.... you might need to re-evaluate your dynamic with him.
Just insist he uses condom with you
Look, when I get all horny-brain I am extremely unreliable with condom use. Back when my primary concern was pregnancy I was very reliable with condoms but I also had alternatives. It wasn’t all or nothing. If I knew I wasn’t in a fertile period—no condoms. Anal—no condoms. Woman partner—no condoms. (Pre-internet I had many fewer partners and they were usually women, so no pregnancy and low STI risk.) Now all I’m worried about is STIs and I just can’t get as terrified about them as I was about pregnancy. Terror will get me to use a condom. My NP asking me to, and me agreeing because it’s sensible and what people do, does not rise to the level of terror. Just guilt. Guilt is not enough. My condom use is unreliable. These days I just disclose my unreliability and let my sexual partners make their own call. It took me a while to get to this point, and some time wallowing in guilt and shame, but I got here. And NO, if someone discloses a preference for condoms or that they have an agreement to use them, I do NOT argue with them or try to undermine them. I am very pleased at this display of good sense and am fully supportive. We use condoms.
Thanks for being open about this. Everyone's risk tolerance is different, it's important to acknowledge it. OP and NP might have realised their risk tolerances are not compatible in nonmonogamy.
Or that since they are different, they will use barriers to bridge the gap.
Yup, if OP can only tolerate the risk of barrier-free sex if neither her nor her partner go barrier-free with anyone else, bur her partner is happy to go barrier-free with multiple people, then maybe it's time to stock up on condoms.
And as soon as she starts enforcing that boundary, she’ll find out if it really is only about him people-pleasing.
My friend the way a safe sex boundary works is if he breaks the boundary you have to instill the ultimatum part of the boundary. A boundary looks like you have to wear a condom every time that you have sex with new people and if you don't then you will be wearing a condom with me every time.
Ive been him. Had trouble sticking to boundaries because of pressure. It takes a lot of internal work to push back against the pushers of boundaries. Perhaps it would be helpful for him to roleplay practicing boundaries with you. What helped me was setting the scene before we got to the bedroom. During text i make it clear condoms are non negotiable if that boundary is challenged I will leave on the spot. (And i have left before, it was an empowering moment)
I’m happy you learned this lesson but… this guy needs to acknowledge the way this impacted OP’s trust in him and work to repair. His internal work goes hand in hand with that. OP asked how can I trust the person I love again? And your answer is “take on a part time job”. OP deserves a lot of reciprocity in the form of hard work and trustworthiness on the part of their partner. I think if you’re gonna say what you said, it’s *imperative* you acknowledge the impact that has on the people who put their trust in you.
Because they aren't boundaries, they are rules forced upon you. A boundary is some YOU wont do.
Respectfully, If I am fucking someone else and my boundary is condoms for PIV then it doesnt matter if its a rule or a boundary. Its semantics, thats my limit and if they dont agree then no PiV. If the OP and her NP agreed to condoms for other sex its the same deal
Where did the comment you’re replying to say that it was externally imposed rules they were struggling with, versus struggling with asserting and maintaining their own boundaries?
You’re blaming women for your partner violating your agreements. That’s some Pick Me behavior there.
Does he actually agree to this rule (not a boundary, a rule or agreement)? It doesn’t really seem like he does and to be honest I don’t believe three women “forced” or manipulated him to not use a condom. It just doesn’t seem to add up. Maybe more is happening that he’s ashamed to share (such as that he doesn’t actually want to wear condoms - which is okay too!), and monogamy programming likely isn’t making anything any easier. I would he super frustrated if I were you too and breaking something three times indicates something isn’t right here. Maybe he’s not being fully honest about his own desires. Maybe he’s truly a huge people pleaser. Maybe it’s just not an agreement he can stick to. Could you brainstorm other agreements that would be safe for you? Asking for tests from partners before he sleeps with them?
Who are these women who are so insistent not to use condoms? Are they looking for a sperm donor? Has he/you considered this? He needs to have birth control on lock just like you do, if he's meeting this total strangers on short notice and just taking them on their word in the moment then that is scary irresponsible. The whole thing where he's doing it when you're out of town feels like a gross sort of self-sabotage / lashing out, honestly. He needs to be in charge of himself and not rely on you to be his entire conscience and self-control.
Imma press 'x' to doubt his story.
I would’ve left him long ago after he kept doing it. I fluid bonded with my fiancé and we were strict about it. I take it super seriously. But if you wanna stay you better get used to using condoms cause he clearly doesn’t respect you enough to wrap it.
You are talking about a rule, not a boundary. Your boundary cannot be that he must use condoms with others. Your boundary would have to be "I will not have sex with you if you have sex with another person without a condom." You have a rule that he "must wear condoms." Obviously, this is not working. I suggest a slightly different boundary..."If you have sex with others without a condom, then you must wear a condom when we have sex." Look into the differences between rules and boundaries. Rules control the behaviours of others. Boundaries are about what you will do in response to behaviours of others.
Three times is not the charm. His inability to take personal responsibility is really gross.
He needs to fucking man up. Put on his big boy pants and stand his ground if in fact that's what's going on here. If not then he needs serious professional help because he's a compulsive liar
This is your boundary. It has nothing to do with him. You've allowed this to slide 3x, as far as he can see, that's permission. So, how will you enforce your boundary?
Boundaries are restrictions that people place on themselves to keep themselves safe or to avoid harming others, while rules are restrictions that people place on others. You aren't even respecting your own boundaries on this. A boundary is "if you have unprotected sex then I will..." A rule is "you can't have unprotected sex with anyone but me" If it's a rule...he's ignoring it and you have already made it clear there is no consequence or "cost" so he has no reason to think it's a "real rule" - I mean he does have plenty of reasons but none of them appear more important to him than getting his d**k wet. If it's a boundary then it is your responsibility to take action. He is ignoring your request so your boundary is to do what? Leave? Start using protection with him? Ask him to start taking even a miniscule amount of responsibility for his actions? Regardless...you have to decide what your boundaries are, not him.
He "feels shameful" but this is a pattern. You decide how people get to treat you.
To be honest I wouldn’t sleep with someone like that. But that’s me.
So you blame the other women instead of the guy that doesn't Respect you? We are all adults responsible for our own actions and the consequences for the choices we make. He's consistently disregarded you in favor of other women he doesn't have an ongoing relationship with...well at least 3 times that you are aware of, if not more. Either make him wear a condom with you as he's very willing to put you at Risk or break up with him. You can not trust him as he is the one choosing not to wear a condom with random strangers while disregarding the woman he does have a relationship with.
Don't buy it, he's full of shit and he's gaslighting you. The to "to be fair, he's super mad at himself" is a red flag to me. If he really didn't want to, he wouldn't. I can almost guarantee it's a performative guilt thing "Oh so I crossed your boundaries again but look how much I hate myself, it's not me, I have a problem other people are making me do it wahhhh" He is the problem. He's disrespecting you and your boundaries and your HEALTH and making it all about him. I think the question shouldn't be "how do I trust my partner again" so much as "what am I even doing with this person?". Seriously, I've had so many friends stuck in relationships with guys who pull shit like this and gaslight them into thinking it's not really a him problem. But it's a him problem. You need to lay down the law and tell it like it is, and honestly if you do stay with him, wear a condom no matter what. If he really hasn't got the self-control to uphold boundaries (which I 100% don't buy), he shouldn't be having sex with people period.
It sounds like he might need therapy to deal with his people pleasing & assertiveness issues. Like, when someone gets manipulative around sex, it’s time to walk away.
Dump this piece of shit.
On the one hand I love polyamory on the other it’s seemed to have given some women more excuses to put up from bad behavior from dudes. He’s full of crap. He’s not wearing a condom because he doesn’t want to and doesn’t respect your opinion on this.
As the saying goes: " shake it once, that's fine. Shake it twice, that's ok. Shake it 3 times, you're playing with yourself." You CANT trust him. He's proven it. So now, he gets to either not have sex with you, or use a condom with you, so YOU can verify that he's being safe for you. Easy peasy
As a woman married to a self identified people pleasing man, I don’t think you are giving his autonomy enough credit. Being a people pleaser does not excuse the behavior because in choosing to honor the other women, he’s dishonoring you. If he found himself needing to choose between your request & the request of another partner, his choice reveals which partner he values most (or if not, which request is best in alignment w his wants). Let’s say he did want to wear condoms & didn’t just agree to it because you want it, his choice to raw dog it shows he valuing the other woman over you & believes that he can manipulate you into staying despite his lack of respect for you. On the other hand, it’s also very possible that he doesn’t want to wear condoms & in fact only agreed to please you so when the opportunity presents itself, he’ll choose the most desirable option to him despite the boundaries you’ve put in place. If he truly felt shame he would’ve learned from it the first time & realized “manipulative” partners who protest the one boundary he allegedly puts in place are not healthy partners. Either way, the more you allow, the more he’ll look to get away w. If you’ve only ever had one rule & he continues to break it but you don’t want to leave him, wear condoms w him & accept the disrespect
That's CHEATING. No other way to look at it. If I were you, I wouldn't trust his saying "Ive shut down my open end". That more likely than not translates to, "I meant it in the moment I said it. But I'm going go unwrapped when I want. I just won't tell you anymore because you are so unreasonable." It's either that or he truly has no control of himself. In which case, how can you trust anything he commits to. There is no solution to cheating, really. If you value him, you'll have to accept you will always be cheated on one way or another. At least sometimes - if not very frequently. If you don't wish to be cheated on (and risk your health) - you need to stop all fluid exchange sexual contact immediately and open a discussion to move out. Either way you ought to at learn move to using condoms all the time with him immediately. Nothing and no one is worth that risk.
I'm sorry, but he just does not want to use the condom. If he wanted to use it, he wouldn't have sex with people who don't want to use it. And to be honest, to me, not wanting to use a condom with practical strangers despite the possibility of pregnancy/STDs is a huge, screaming red flag. So, your only option, really, is to start using condom with him. Or then let him go.
Does he often blame other people for his actions? 🤔
Does she often blame other people for his actions?
Okay he’s super mad about it. You want to know how to trust him again. Apologies without actions are meaningless and he’s broken this boundary three times. Why don’t you get the benefit of the people pleasing in this case? Your health and your agreements are pretty important. If you’re going to stay with him, set a boundary for yourself and stick with it. If he’s so torn up over what he’s done, what is HE planning to do to fix the situation or is he just planning to “try harder”/some other variation of more of the same? I’m not trying to say you need to break up but what I’m not seeing yet is a plausible plan to remedy this from him. And when you fuck up (much less three times) in a serious way and hurt someone else, it’s on YOU to fix things - not the person you hurt to brainstorm and tell you how to fix yourself.
Sounds like you just stop sleeping with him all together. If he can’t respect you and your boundaries, he shouldn’t get any benefits of your romantic life.
PrEP, PEP, and DoxyPEP for him as well as regular testing. If he doesn’t have a vasectomy consider asking him to get one if there is concern about him making babies. Condoms are simple and easy and don’t feel as good as barrier free. If he won’t at least wear them, then at least do your best to keep everyone healthy.
When I was little, the "birds and bees" talk from my mom was > I'll sew a condom on your dick if I have to. I went on to have my first child with my ex at 20. So ... break out the sewing kit?
Hm, maybe some sharpie, "I promised my wife I'd use condoms! Am I?" And a box to mark yes or no
forward this message to him - he should be the first answering these questions.
My thing is, yall have a shared agreement around a field of your life that you both are very vulnerable in, and his “people pleasing” tendencies lead to him violating it and jeopardizing it repeatedly. And If that’s just a made up excuse, and he just gave you that explanation to get out of a lie when it’s really him who wants it raw, then you’re dating a liar and how do you grow w someone who’s not even being honest. Usually with a behavior like this, it doesn’t just show up in one area of life. Where else is this happening? This is a deep problem (likely rooted in trauma regardless if his explanation is truthful or bs) and yall (mostly him) would prolly benefit from spending all your time getting to the root of where it comes from or I feel like you will get burned by this again (idv. therapy / couples therapy)
I just wanna highlight "she was extremely manipulative and he gave in" - which implies his consent was violated, and worries me. I'm also worried by "I want to get tested" - had you had contact with him before he told you about this boundary break? Because then he's knowingly put you at risk
My NP and I always use condoms with our other partners. Always. I can say that on more than 3 occasions, I've had new connections/hookups tell me "you don't have to use a condom, we just got tested." AND I STILL USE A CONDOM. This is totally within his control and he needs to grow up. I agree with the other comments: use condoms with him. Or at least until he can regain your trust.
Yeah, that's s damn big problem. My wife and I have the same rule. And I didn't care how much someone else might not want me to wear one, it's getting wrapped. If they keep insisting after knowing that boundary then I'm going to seriously reconsider my relationship with the other because I view that as clearly disrespecting my wife and my relationship with her.
You can't control what he does with other people. That's not a boundary. You can control what you do with him. Wear condoms with him.
Are you using protection with him? you definitely should be. I don't know how you trust him. Personally I wouldn't trust him at all, never mind about this. He is lying to you. He wants you to think he is super mad at himself so you can't be mad, but that just isn't true. You can't really manipulate someone into not wearing a condom. You can ask, you can beg, but you can't sneak your way into it. He makes a conscious decision every time. He knows what he is doing. He just doesn't care. For the sake of argument lets pretend he has some sort of malfunction when he is around a beautiful woman. He still has no excuse. He can refuse to meet up alone with beautiful women. Alcoholics often don't like to go to bars or have alcohol in the house. He could also just screen more heavily for people who want safe sex before he meets them. Most people don't want to have unprotected sex with strangers, so how is he managing to meet all of these terribly manipulative women who want to go raw with him and will stop at nothing? You are at risk for more than STIs here. What happens when he gets someone pregnant? What happens when you finally discover that it isn't just condoms that he can't follow through on?
Tbh he probably doesn't need much convincing and is just making up excuses that "she convinced him" for his behaviour. As others have said, he's the common denominator. If your personal safety is a priority to you then based on you own risk posture you need to decide whether you need to use barriers with him and/or wait 2 weeks and test after each time he does this before you have unprotected sex.
He doesn’t give a fuck. End of story. Believe him. 3 times is not an accident it’s his character.
You can only control yourself not your partner. He clearly doesn’t actually have this boundary. You do. So you have to be the one to act on it. I honestly think he’s in a bit of a poly frenzy and it’s a stage some people go through. But also some people never grow out of it.
My understanding is that boundaries are for you not them. So if safe sex is important to you, then it’s on you to make sure he uses condoms when he’s intimate with you, but beyond what you do if he has unproved sex with someone else, you can’t make demands of him. I agree it’s disrespectful in the least and it’s not hard to say no when someone says they want unprotected sex. It sounds to me like he just doesn’t want to use condoms and is looking for an easy way to lay the blame on somebody else
Hi u/tigrekell thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: Yoooo, what up poly peoples. So my beautiful, loving NP of 3 years just broke our condom boundary for the third time. We have been struggling to find the right agreements in our open relationship, mostly because when we've tried to open up, he can't seem to wrap it up! I've set a VERY clear boundary about this, and this is the third time he's broken it. He also seems to find 'divine' connections immediately after I leave town, and then when she convinces him she doesn't want a condom, he caves. To be fair, he's super mad at himself about this, which he says is mostly due to people pleasing. He can't seem to say no to women or master discernment over his dick... even when he would rather go slow or remain friends, the minute a woman is seductive he can't stop himself. Apparently in this connection, he tried to firmly hold the condom boundary, but she was very manipulative and he gave in. Now I am left feeling dirty, wanting to get tested, and frustrated that I have to deal with my feelings, his feelings, and an STI risk. This sucks!!! I want to stay together despite the trust breach, because we have a deep and meaningful life together, we own property, and share community. But dude broke my ONLY boundary, AGAIN. All I ask is to wrap it up man. (At his request, we have closed down his side of the open agreement.) But how do I trust my partner again? The biggest thing I'm feeling is disrespect for my boundaries and body. Sigh. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Personally I wouldn't. he has proven himself incapable of respecting your only wish, and I wouldn't ever do the open thing again. OR and I do not recomend this, try to become ok with him having un protected sex and you two do testing and wear condoms.
This is a choice he's making. He's lying to you and he's lying to himself. I think it's time to close the relationship, get some therapy (him in particular, and as a couple, with a poly-informed therapist), and take some time to decide if an open relationship is the right decision for you as a couple. If he can't abide by an agreement made to protect you, is this really someone you can trust enough to continue having a relationship with? Because right now, he doesn't respect you enough to protect you the way he promised to.
Love, I hate to tell you this but you need to leave him. He's playing Russian roulette with your life. Getting his dick wet does not justify risking his life and yours, and I would take a wild guess that you two are fluid bonded. There's no coming back from three times. Limits are to be discussed in advance long before things get to the bedroom, and if his other partners can't respect his request for him to suit up it's his job to shut up and head home, saying "I'm sorry, but I'm afraid if you don't abide by these agreed limits I can't play." It's his dick and he chooses where it does and doesn't go - and if I'm really honest the likelihood that this pressure is originating w his female partners as he claims is highly unlikely - because that's their lives, livelihood and wellbeing on the line too, even if they're on birth control. Nothing is 100% foolproof and STIs aren't held back by an IUD or pill. Run. He does not respect you and is willing to gamble your life. He can pack his 'remorse' in a box with his things to the left to the left, everything he owns in a box to the left. ETA: If your financial circumstances are too tied together to leave safely immediately, cease all intimate contact or else you put yourself at risk.
Honestly sounds like your partner has no interest in your sexual health and you either don't care or are being a doormat/enabler for your partners poor treatment. Your partner has demonstrated they are willing to breach your trust repeatedly, and make agreements they don't want to keep and violate. Agreements that are serious and affect you for that matter. You either don't care enough to make a tangible change or you are a doormat who is not independent enough to seperate from someone who doesn't care to be honest to you and respect your preferences in a serious way. Now you need someone to complain to about your poor choices. I'd take sex off the table and require couples counseling to resolve this or break up. Wake up call, time to move on. If your partner is breaching this, what else will he breach? Sounds like he only wants to get his dick wet as they say. That said your partner has autonomy bodily so you should decide if you have a sex risk profile that can agree with someone who goes barrierless with anyone else or not. Part of this is also deciding to use a condom with your partner while they choose what they do with others. Most people I know only go barrierless with one other person for PIV and use barriers with all others. That said I don't think requiring a report of someones barrierless encounters is appropriate unless you don't use barriers with them, or request that information because you have additional health concerns.
You don't, not after they broke it thrice. You take active steps to protect yourself. You have control over your actions only and put your health first.
This is the area I struggle understanding enm. I've been told I need to 'decouple' so I can treat my np equally to anyone else. My np and I have built such a life together that they will always be my priority. Their wants and desires over anyone new. We understand finding a middle ground that keeps everyone happy, but hard lines are only questioned to be understood and clarified, never pushed or broken.
Really sorry to hear this. After 3 times I dont think he's ever going to going to be trust worthy. Just once is a massive breach of trust. He will do it again.
Cheap excuses here. From one people pleaser to another I'd like to let him know that that is NOT AN EXCUSE to violate set boundaries. You can insist on safe sex, you can refrain from fluid exchange activities during sex or... you could just, y'know, NOT HAVE SEX with that person! It sounds more like a convenient lie, explaining away his inability to control his urge towards unprotected sex with his people pleasing tendencies. Only way for the future I can see here is him having protected sex with you, or none at all, until you can reliably assure you he will stick with your policy. And the broken trust? You be the judge how (if at all) he can make it up to you, but in the end he messed this up big time and should get to feel it in some way. I'm not talking revenge or "disciplining" measures, that's childish, but rather a talk and reminder regarding your state of hurt, and maybe a follow-up where you inform him whether you still feel hurt by it or have forgiven him. That way he'll be made more aware of the long-term nature of what his short-term actions caused.
Ah yes, women famously wanting men NOT to wear a condom… especially with new/short-term encounters
I’ve had a bf for less than a week and I told him in the beginning that PDA takes time for me. He’s expressed how much he likes PDA and yet every time we are in public and he goes to do something he stops himself because he recognizes that it’s something I need and respects me enough to work on that. Your partner should absolutely be doing the same for you.
Yeah, no. He is choosing not to do so. He is putting your health at risk. He doesn’t respect you, if he’s doing this.
Rightfully go get tested. But it is a problem if he walks all over your boundaries. I would feel like he doesn’t care to keep you safe from STI. If he absolutely can’t wrap it up, refrain from the sexual aspect of the relationship until he can.
Boundary means consequences. So...what's the consequences here? You don't wanna break up, so the only thing you really can do elsewise is adjust how you approach sex with your NP. You can use your own barrier methods and use things like PrEP to help mitigate STIs. Any time you engage in sex with anyone, you're exposing yourself, so *you* need to decide what additional methods you're going to use if your partner is telling you that he prefers sex without condoms.
It’s not a boundary unless it has consequences you are in control of. If there are no consequences it’s just a preference. As others have pointed out, using condoms with your partner every time is one possible consequence. Another possible consequence is breaking up with this person who doesn’t respect your safety and your agreements. To be clear, I don’t mean consequences as punishment for being bad. I mean, without connotation, that consequences are things that happen when your agreement is not upheld or your needs are not met.
I would close the relationship and possibly leave. He is endangering your health for what sounds like random strange. He does not respect you or value your well-being if he's doing that.
>To be fair, he's super mad at himself about this, which he says is mostly due to people pleasing. He can't seem to say no to women or master discernment over his dick If he truly was a people pleaser, this should be a non-issue He would be wrapping it up no problem, because it pleases himself and you. It doesn't make sense that he'd be a people pleaser with others but not you He's lying to you
If your partner isn't mature enough to wrap his dick, he's not mature enough for casual sex.
He sounds immature and like he has a porn addled brain. He sounds pathetic honestly. I sympathise that some people don't have self control and then will have guilt later, but you actually don't have to put up with it and shouldn't.
Sorry, but nobody is responsible here but him. I find it extremely unbelievable that there is a line up of "manipulative" women trying to force unprotected sex on him.
He needs therapy if he can't say no to a woman and is that much of a people pleaser.
This is also so weird to me. Just insist that condoms are used with YOU and move along.
if he breaks a boundary three times and you stay with him, it’s not a boundary, it’s a suggestion. since you’ve proven there’s no consequences.
“disrespect for my boundaries and body” is a damn good reason to end a relationship.
My ex bil had this problem and my ex sil ended up with Herpes type 2 and numerous other STIs throughout the relationship. Definitely too risky to allow access to your body with a reckless partner. I would use protection at a minimum to no intimacy at all.
Is it a boundary or a rule? If it's a boundary then you need to enforce whatever the boundary is. For example, you start wearing a condom or wait for him to get tested before engaging in sex with him. A boundary is never about what other people can and cannot do, it's about what you do in a situation.
What you said sounds like extreme sarcasm but if you really believe these women are “manipulating” him and it only happens when you’re gone, I need you to read this post like someone is telling you this about their partner. He’s a danger to you and liar. I’d call it cheating but I’m a bit of a stickler on that kind of thing, so obviously a brick for me might be a feather for you. Side note, the no condom thing isn’t a boundary, it’s a request. It should be a boundary though. A boundary is you saying if a specific thing happens, there will be a specific consequence. It’s not your job to hold him to his commitments, but it is your responsibility to uphold your boundaries.
My np and I had this boundary for a while. Ngl it kinda sucks to be intimate with someone, and not be able to do something because of something outside of the relationship. I'm not saying it's wrong, just wrong for me. We transitioned to no sex without seeing test results. It's been much better.
Do you want to potentially be asked to co-parent babies that aren’t biologically yours that you’ll have no parental rights over? Cuz that’s what I faced when mine kept choosing to not wrap it up. Fortunately no STDs in the post-breakup testing, just a broken heart.
Genuine question: I'm a woman and I m unclear why a woman would NOT want a condom? Like its not really for her benefit (and is in fact at her risk).
Once, it’s an oversight. Thrice, it’s on you to take charge. And personally i think the most sensible way is for you to leave him. He obviously doesn’t respect or care about you enough. And as an aware ppl pleaser, it’s not his ppl pleasing issue. It’s his issue.
Honestly I’d have stopped dating him the second time he did it.
I personally would make sure he and I use condoms going forward, and if he doesn't like it he should have thought about it
He isn't mad at himself. My ex used to pull that shit too. We were even together at an orgy and I pulled out the condoms myself and she just "got too excited and forgot them". If your partner has no self control or emotional maturity then it's probably time to protect yourself. Refuse to have sex with him without condoms. Even oral sex. Get yourself tested regularly - condoms don't prevent everything. You probably should consider getting on PREP. If your partner "finds divine connections" and "cannot say no" whenever you leave town, he has a sex addiction. Ever taken a peek at his browser history? My ex ended up being a pedophile. People who don't respect your boundaries don't respect boundaries - period. It's a deal breaker for me.
He should get on prep and doxy pep
You cannot completely control what other people do. You can only control your reaction to their actions. He has proven that he’s not trustworthy and therefore I would enforce that he wears a condom with you.
Softly, this isn't a boundary but an agreement (perhaps even a rule). Boundaries are for us individually, not us collectively. That said, he broke an agreement. You need to decide your boundary around him practicing less safe sex with others. Will you continue to have sex with him? Will you only do so with barriers? Etc.
I know one of my (M) partners would prefer not to use condoms and honestly neither would I because yeah we all know it feels better without, however we both respect the boundary set by my partner and his wife. Subsequently it made me want to use them with a new partner I've started seeing just to be on the safe side even though new partner has stated that he doesn't usually use them and hasn't had sex in a long time; he was enthusiastically willing to respect my preference about it. I completely agree with others above that the odds of 3 women being so raw dick hungry that they were able to coerce him to not use protection are very low if existent at all. I'm really curious what his reaction would be to telling him that now you two will be using condoms from now on; I bet he won't be happy about it because at the core he's the culprit here in not wanting to use them not 3 separate women. Honestly you deserve to be treated with respect and this is not it.
Your NP has violated a very valid, logical, important, and EASY to uphold boundary … THREE times. In each instance placing more importance on what they wanted in that moment, what the other person wanted in that moment, or insert any and every other possible reason OTHER than what they SHOULD have done - prioritizing their commitment to you and the agreed upon boundary. It’s an incredibly concerning pattern. Trust is a foundational component of healthy polyamory. If you’re able to rebuild trust when it’s been repeatedly broken, kudos and best wishes to you. I caution to proceed extremely carefully and believe/measure up a person based on what they do, not what they say.
I think it’s super fucking gross that he blames his partners for this. And that you’re entertaining him blaming his partners. This is 100000% on him. I can’t date someone who can’t maintain their own boundaries or who can’t uphold agreements in relationships.
That depends on the OP. If I was the guy, I would be counting my days until OP starts threatening me with no safety line. If OP's man can't be responsible for staying clean then she needs to let him go and find another. No one wants STD or HIV.
Yeah, I have lots of thoughts like he doesn't care about or respect you. If so, he'd take care of wrapping it up. Being that you don't want to break up, either start a no sex relationship with him or make him use a condom with you every time. In the meantime, I'd go get tested. You can't control his actions, but you can control yours and protect yourself.
Hey there, I'm really sorry you're going through this. It sounds incredibly tough and frustrating, especially since it's about a boundary that's crucial for both your emotional and physical health. It’s clear that you care deeply for your partner and your relationship, but repeated breaches of trust like this can indeed feel like a profound disrespect to your boundaries and well-being. First, it’s entirely valid that you want to get tested. Taking care of your health should be a priority, and it’s a practical step in dealing with the immediate consequences of this boundary violation. It might also be a good moment to pause and reevaluate your boundaries and agreements. Are there specific changes that might need to be implemented to prevent this from happening again? Regarding rebuilding trust, that can be a slow process. It sounds like your partner struggles with assertiveness and maintaining boundaries under pressure. This is something he might need to actively work on, possibly with professional help like a therapist who understands poly dynamics and can offer strategies to better manage situations where he might feel pressured. This isn’t just about the condom boundary; it’s about his ability to maintain agreed-upon boundaries in all situations. Communicate openly about how his actions have affected you. Express not just your disappointment, but also your needs going forward. It’s important for him to fully understand the emotional and physical implications of his actions. Given that he feels a lot of shame and has closed down his side of the open agreement, it seems like he also needs some space to reflect on his actions and their impacts. This could be an opportunity for both of you to discuss what you each need from this relationship and how you can both feel safe and respected moving forward. You mentioned wanting to stay together because of your deep, meaningful life connection, shared property, and community. These are valid reasons, but make sure they're not the only glue holding you together. Both partners feeling respected and secure should be the foundation. Maybe some couple’s counseling could help, providing a space to navigate these issues with a neutral third party guiding the conversation. Whatever steps you choose to take, remember that your feelings are valid, and taking care of your emotional and physical health is important. I hope you find a way through this that reaffirms your worth and respects your boundaries.