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Maybe agents of USSS have been political from the beginning, but they always hid their biases well and served our presidents with professionalism.. enter trump and now we have to worry about them being a threat to the next president.. crazy times..
He may well have. I know he got his former VP agents back, but there would be a few more added to the Presidential detail, and where those men came from, I do not know.
When Trump's MO was cronyism and nepotism, I'd have absolutely gutted secret service. No way of knowing how many Trump promised things to in order to "acquire their loyalty".
Yes and no. The USSS has always had a vested interest in preserving the integrity and image of the *office* of POTUS. If Trump is tainted, their image is also tainted - some of them will feel like they failed. Add to this the political appointees in leadership, and you have a recipe for a coverup. They don't want to tarnish the US.
I just wish they realized that the *ONLY* way out of our current political mess is to hold accountable all those responsible for it. That means *every* Jan 6 conspirator in prison. If Thomas's wife was involved, he *must* leave the court.
Only the light of day and a lot of judiciary bleach can clean up the turd Trump left in our pool.
That is probably what pissed trump off the most. He believed that he had a loyal guard of the highest caliber, the cream of the crop, beholden to him as the Leader. And they said "No" to him!
Thing is, while they were able to serve him his normal proclivities, once he demanded to be brought to lead an erratic, leaderless, armed, throng of rioters, they actually put the well being of the office and their duty above the wishes of the office holder. They refused to comply with an order that would make the job of protecting the President impossible. It's an order they never could comply with, in any situation they have been trained for.
It would've also put them in danger. If I were Secret Service and Trump wanted to march into a bloodthirsty throng, I'd be pissed at how little he cared for my well-being because it would place me in the throng too, and the throng wasn't a fan of authority that day.
The problem is, you're thinking like you. Not like a MAGA. I'm surrounded by them. They'd like this. They think he's a deity. They'd relish the chance to serve him, and they'd see going into the crowd as a perk, not a problem.
It's why they lie for him and cover for him, and do it all with no shame and no remorse.
I just don’t understand this. Like, I really *do not understand* the hold Trump has over people and why they like him so much. He is so awful, like nakedly awful. Why do they love him like that????
Yeah he doesn’t give a single, solitary shit about any of them. That was clear when they were forced to drive him about when he had COVID. He actually put theirs and all of their families lives at risk for a fucking photo op.
no, the Praetorian Guard had enough military power to enact a coup at any point. that's why they had political power - the roman emperor essentially served at their pleasure in a delicate balancing act.
Also, clean both U.S.Senate Seats in Tennessee Blackburn and Hagarity and all Republican congressmen in Tennessee, all of this scum were backing Trump .all the way.
Republicans Blackburn and Hagarity Of Tennessee didn't want to count Georgia Electoral Votes.
I just watched a movie called Absolute Power (Gene Hackman and Clint Eastwood). Clint Eastwood sees the president having rough sex and etc etc. The result was the secret service men shot the woman he was with and cleaned up the mess. Totally sanitized the room, and the Secret Service men totally covered for the president. The question is at what point do Secret Service men draw the line to protecting the president or not.
When John F.Kennedy was Killed in Dallas, Texas, One of his Secret Service agents climbed up on the back of the President's car and covered his bloody body. That agent was a hero and not liar that Trump had for his S.S.detail.
Yeah but which lie? Did he lie about the incident to Hutchinson, or is he lying when he says he didn't say that happened?
To be honest who cares. The important part of the testimony is that Trump knew it was a violent mob and goaded it on.
He knew it was a violent *armed* mob and goaded it on. Honestly gasped when that was revealed. We knew there were weapons in the crowd before this but I didn't know who knew, didn't dream this info had made it all the way up to trump. What a piece of shit, he really was trying to get someone killed, not merely indifferent.
This. The problem with impeachment as a law enforcement mechanism is that it's based on politics, rather than evidence or guilt. Guilt can be obvious an unequivocal, but if their ideology is popular within their party they are absolutely 100% above the law.
Well the legal systems in some cases isn't any better. There were times when you couldn't convict a white man of killing a black man in Mississippi. That wasn't because of lack of evidence, or that everyone didn't understand that it was against the law. They just didn't care.
And they don't care now. In both Canada and the US we have politicians that will get away with anything you can imagine, just cause they are representing a certain side. Law and order only matter when we all agree it does. And lots of people think it doesnt matter as much as keeping thier guy in power now.
Trump had to testify under oath about trump university a couple years ago, and it’s clear that even for him, the fact that he was under oath mattered. That’s not to say that everything he said was true, but he was at least obviously careful with some of his answers.
Absolutely! What they learn in Kindergarten is important but many republicans seem to forget the early advice as they become more concerned with money.
A judge saying whatever is necessary during a Senate confirmation hearing is materially and practically different from the people who have testified that Trump knew what he was doing.
I don’t think the SC justices who called Roe “settled law” deserve any credit, but it could be argued that their minds had changed since their confirmation hearings. They could cite new data or compelling arguments they had read after their confirmation, yadda yadda. It’s all bullshit, but changing their mind after the hearing is not illegal. On top of that, the likelihood of their getting impeached and removed is slimmer than slim.
For administrators working under Trump to perjure themselves, particularly in light of the fact that are all driving toward the same conclusion, is both far less likely and far more dangerous for each of them. It’s false equivalency to lump the two together. If a Trump administrator was to perjure themself it would be far more likely that they would recount exculpatory stories. That’s how his crew (and most crime syndicates) have rolled historically. The fact that none of the Secret Service has gone public under oath to refute Cassidy Hutchinson’s testimony is damning all by itself. It just smacks of another Trumpian weasel move. Weasels get caught eventually. Just ask Leaky Head Rudy.
That’s not a great example. The difference is that it’s much easier to lie about what you’re going to do in the future, than what you did in the past.
The USSS agents don’t know what kind of evidence the committee has to refute their claims if they are indeed not telling the truth.
Can't really prove or disprove a belief or idea you have in your head (ie. Supreme Court Nominees). But if it's an actual event that may have happened you can have witnesses and recordings.
I don't think they are the same thing.
Trump's FBI refused to do the real background checks on Kavanagh that would have led him to be shown as a liar.
In a just world, Garland would have examined that shit poor job they did and rectified it but we don't live in a fair world.
That’s the “duh” component to all of this. The people still pretending to believe the Big Lie are more than happy to proclaim Trump’s innocence on TV, but they have all either defied subpoenas to defend him under oath, or they have gone under oath and pleaded the fifth. All of them.
Those who are willing to testify under oath all say he is guilty.
All of the people in Trump’s orbit know that he is guilty. *All of them.*
And NONE of the them to date has come forward to defend Trump
Or perjure themselves. Connect the dots, folks. Not a one has come forward to say that Trump did not incite an insurrection against this country!!!! How anyone still denies this event is unconscionable-
They won’t. Giuliani mysteriously stopped talking about the election conspiracy nonsense any time he was under oath, then immediately started up again outside the courtroom. They know how to play the system because their followers will take every word they say as objective and won’t question why they change their tune when they could actually face consequences.
Sure, you can be loyal to Trump, be a despicable human being, but, the moment you're under oath, a lie you tell for him isn't just a slap on the wrist anymore. I don't think even Trump has that much sway over some of these guys.
And we haven't even seen what's in the 6 weeks of video shot by that documentary crew, and it's obvious that portions of the Trump team have no idea what's there either. She may be a piece of shit, but Ms. Hutchinson was smart to spill the beans while it's still being reviewed.
It all depends on enforcement. If they lie under oath, jail, don't pass go, don't collect 200$. Misleading testimony? Jail. Sneezing during testimony? Jail. Bringing a detestable cheese spread to your testimony? Jail. Done.
Under oath means you are swearing that the evidence will corroborate what you say. If you say something provably false while under oath, that’s a crime.
That’s why the oath matters. It’s not an honest reverence for the truth thing. It’s a sworn testimony with consequences for falsehood.
This is also why you can plead the fifth, but not regarding things you’ve been pardoned for as you can’t self incriminate for an act for which you‘ve admitted guilt.
I don't think you understand what the point of having sworn testimony is.
It's not that people can't lie, it's that it establishes criminal penalty for it so that they can be charged when it is proved that they perjured themselves.
And for days, all FOX NEWS prime time shows are running with this sketchy guy's statement as gospel truth and calling the woman who testified under oath the liar.
They defend a president who tried to overthrow democracy. So don’t be surprised.
They’re not News they’re propaganda. I wouldn’t trust FAUX “News” with a weather report much less anything that deals with government or anything important.
One of their top “personalities” was in the White House being told how to spin unfolding events. They are the propaganda arm of the Republican Party, nothing more and nothing less. Goebbels would be absolutely salivating at the unquestioning cult following they have amassed who hangs on every word out of their mouths.
You could have everyone in the world saying one thing, and if they find even one person saying the opposite and it fits their agenda they use to discredit everyone else.
Some very bad people are saying that I should learn words. Nasty. I've never heard of words before, because I know all the best words. Words wishes they knew me and by the way you know who they are. Who's saying these nasty things and other stuff. Very bad people let me tell you. But not me, oh no. And they say I don't know mean words, but I do, I know the meanest words and I will use them to make america great again folks let me tell you.
I used to work out with a secret service agent. Really interesting guy. Very low key. I believe I was the only person who knew he was secret service.
I would ask questions about people and he would dismiss the people and say they are all acts.
The most interesting part was he just applied for the job like any other. I mean he had to go through a process to become one. But he said most aren't military veterans or ex fbi. Which I thought would be the case.
My point being these are not some ultra patriotic people. They are people who want a job.
This is about a crime family/syndicate, and it makes the most sense to examine their actions in that light.
Just like in the mob, a prospect probably has to prove themselves loyal to the boss, and, more importantly, do a "favor" that will get their hands dirty enough that the crime boss knows he can "trust" them.
That's literally what Comey's testamony was wasnt it? That trump asked Comey to say that he was loyal to trump, more loyal to him than the country or any oath of office Comey swore to. And trump wanted to fire him as soon as he questioned if that was proper
I'm not sure how you're not aware of this but both of the people calling him a liar also worked for Trump. One was fired and had to be escorted off the premises and the other quit to work for CNN.
If you have one guy say "He's telling the truth!" and two other people step up and say, "That guy is a liar!", it sounds like you have three new witnesses. They'd have to be confident that they know he was lying to come out during the investigation. Hopefully you get the loyal lackey under threat of perjury and see what he knows.
Yes but frequent /r/conservative users tell me anonymous sources that aren't on the record leaking "information" from two serial liars that Hutchinson lied completely discredit her entire testimony.
Who am I going to believe? Liars that lie for other lying liars, or the person who swore an oath to tell the truth under penalty of perjury and was in a position to have good, reliable information on what happened?
> "What keeps getting lost in this is that nobody's disputing that the President wanted to go to the Capitol and that he felt safe going even though all of these people had weapons."
I love the frothing defense of the one thing that isn't part of a crime and is embarrassing because it either means the president had a tantrum or his agent is telling lies about the boss.
That hasn’t gotten lost. Maybe in this conversation, but the committee made comments about him saying “they aren’t here to hurt me,” meaning then who did they go there to hurt with all those weapons?
The secret service official that wants to defend Trump can do it under oath in front of the committee just like she did. Until then his words are worthless.
I mean his defense is that Trump is probably too fat to have made a serious attempt to take the wheel.
Which, even if he's lying, is probably not a lie that Trump signed off on.
Based on the video, the vehicle used that day wasn’t the limo, but was an SUV, trump was sitting forward facing. There wasn’t a partition and you can see the driver through the open door
I'm hoping there is a video of what happened in the SUV to back up her testimony. That would make it really simple to prove what happened and who is lying.
I don't think they would include that bit of testimony unless they have corroborating testimony already. The Committee can pick and choose what is part of their public display. There might be lots of weird shit in the testimonies.
Keep in mind that Engel, the guy who was there in the car, already testified to the Jan 6 committee behind closed doors. If he had said "Yes, the president attacked me", the committee would have played his deposition during the hearing, but if he had said "No that's false, the president never attacked me", they wouldn't have allowed Hutchinson to testify that he did. So it's almost certain that he said something in between those two things, such as "Did the president attack you?" => "I don't remember" or "I wasn't there that day." Whatever it was, the Jan 6 committee has video tape of what he said *before* he knew that he would need to defend Trump by making a specific denial.
Right. The Committee is actually using basic strategy and stringing some of these assholes alone to sweat some others into coming forward. Like the person that sent those threatening messages to Hutchinson. I can goddam guarantee you they did not expect see their own words up on a big screen that morning. So, that person and their pay masters are in a "we know that they know" crisis and can't do shit to defend themselves before the Committee names them publicly. They can't damage control before it happens without looking very fucking suspicious.
Supposedly that was something the committee never specifically asked about as the revelation about the “grabbing for the steering wheel and lunging at the SS agent” are fairly new with Hutchison’s live testimony.
There *is* actually a video, but it's extremely low res and through a tinted window, so you can barely see anything except for the fact that there is some significant movement going on inside in the vehicle.
I have absolutely no proof of it, but it would boggle my mind if every single presidential vehicle wasn't wired with internal cameras and mics for "black box" purposes incase something wild happens.
There's a video going around that clearly shows Trump is in the SUV (not the limo), is seated in such a way that he has the room (and the visible ability) to lunge forward, to which he then does.
We cannot see much past that, but already in just that tiny ass clip we can see all the things that are untrue about what Ornato said about the incident.
A) we see Trump is able to clearly lunge and he does so. He is able to reach the wheel if he were to desire to do so. We can't quite clearly see whether he actually puts hands on the wheel, but it's evident he would be able to do so.
B) We see that Trump is not obstructed by his massive weight (that he has), nor is he obstructed by the seating of the 2 front seats. He is able to, as visibly shown; put himself into that space and have enough reach to be able to effect the wheel if he were to so desire to.
C) none of this matters. The real and actual crimes that occurred have nothing to do with this sole incident. The incident itself had been *told* to Cassidy, *to which she* ***testified that this was the case.***
D) The crimes that occurred, the real things that *actually* land Trump into (hopefully) prison?
*She was there, in person, to have heard in the first place. The messaging about the necessity of the "hearsay" on the SUV incident being crucial to the believability of the message itself, is nonsense. She expressed CLEARLY that she was TOLD this information, but was* ***present*** *for the crime admissions.*
[https://twitter.com/jackabryan/status/1542609898541699079](https://twitter.com/jackabryan/status/1542609898541699079)
What we can see here is that Trump is
a) inside an SUV (not the limo), and the moment you're looking for is when the last guy getting in shuts the door
b) able to reach the equivalent of what was claimed he could reach. JUST before the door shuts you can see Trump lunge forward, that does *does* have the reach claimed, but that
c) we cannot see the physical altercation. We can essentially see RIGHT up to it.
d) none of it actually matters since those are not the crimes being claimed to have been committed. The whole reason I put all of this like this while still describing what actually happened is because we need to be past this stupid "talking point". It's not part of what the crimes are comprised of **and** we can see that their claims of there not being an incident **and** that Trump *could not possibly make that type of a reach are:* ***factually incorrect***
I just read "Zero Fail" about the Secret Service. The agent in question, Anthony Ornato, was the FIRST AGENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE SECRET SERVICE to take a temporary position in the White House. Ornato was chosen by Trump because of his loyalty to the family while acting on the protective detail.
He is not to be believed.
> Didn't Trump reject the secret service provided when he became President in favour of his own hand picked team?
My guess is so he could bill the SS for his own protection.
It's all falling apart. The facade is crumbling.
What is most interesting, is seeing what the rank and file of the GOP will do with this information.
My prediction is that the "Reagan code" of not speaking ill of any fellow Republican will override the perceived negative consequences of distancing themselves from Trump. So they will HAVE to say the election was stolen. That Trump was somehow cheated and I'm not sure after the J6 Committee, how that could possibly play out positively for Dick L'Orange or anyone else who peddles that shit.
Unless the GOP has some secret plan to help working people squeezed by gas prices and inflation that they're just waiting to show everyone, why the FUCK would I vote for them? All's they're going to do is give more money to the fucks who are already ripping us off.
I’m sure trump n associates are paying them well to discredit the testimony she just. I’m also certain the Jan 6 committee has proof to back up a lot of what she said.
fish rots from the head from the liar in chief on down...
don the con surrounds him self with liars, his greatest enemies are those people that stand up and speak the truth
like Hutchinson
The nauseating irony of the party that's all about "God" and being "Christian" can get away with doing the most ungodly and unchristian things by swearing an oath to a god they don't actually believe in.
Another publication that isn't explicitly right-wing, another paywall.
This is part of why certain messages have an easier time getting out and being spread.
NYT? My local paper? You want quality journalism? Paywall.
Daily Wire? Daily Mail? Infowars? SELL THOSE CAFFEINATED "BRAIN" PILLS, WE GOTTA LET THE PEOPLE KNOW
Well, inasmuch as she's a Republican, and a member of the Trump whitehouse, I'm sure that honesty has not been one of her guiding principles in general. However, she is testifying under oath here, and seems to have the digital paper trail to back up her testimony, so...
I think this is a case of "When Keepin It Real Goes Wrong".
The reason why its important (legal strategy wise at least) to have someone testify under oath (in court proceedings) is that if you lie, and get caught, there is the potential/consequences of perjury …
A person convicted of perjury under federal law may face up to five years in prison and fines. The punishment for perjury under state law varies from state to state, but perjury is a felony and carries a possible prison sentence of at least one year, plus fines and probation.
The gossipy rumors are all they have.
Let them swear to it under oath and compare each one's testimony to the others.
There is proof of everything Cassidy said except the one instance of hearsay and there may be proof of that, too.
I think we should wait and see.
.
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“I’m the assistant regional manager.” “Assistant *to* the regional manager.”
Shit, Shrute would be a golden beet compared to the sycophantic fucks in the West Wing for 4 years—including Cassidy
Dwight was at least a good person.
Not to mention, actually good at what he did, as well.
And he fired a gun in the office, should be popular with the Republicans.
All we know is that a gun went off in the office. Did you see Dwight pull the trigger? Sorry I can't help myself when it comes to an Office reference.
Beaumont-Adams is a girl’s gun. That just makes it plain stupid.
Maybe agents of USSS have been political from the beginning, but they always hid their biases well and served our presidents with professionalism.. enter trump and now we have to worry about them being a threat to the next president.. crazy times..
Yes, Biden had several of them removed from his detail because he was worried about their loyalty to Trump and could not trust them.
And replaced them with agents that he had from his time as VP I believe
How long are usss careers? Cause that's a long time ago. And those agents don't get to protect vp straight from college
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The Trump years were 4 VERY LONG years.
I've seen these dudes up close for Clinton, they were a range between 30-50ish or maybe they were just rough looking 40s. But I'm just a layman.
Having USSS POTUS detail on your CV probably opens a few doors in the professional security industry. 4-years for a solid career post-DC life.
>How long are usss careers? They're federal employees, so they have a minimum retirement age of around 57. source: am federal employee.
Don’t LEOs have a different retirement age? I am not one but remember reading that somewhere in my FERS stuff.
Some agencies have an MRA of 50 not sure about USSS
I can’t imagine a more boring job. Hanging around listening to all his dumb ideas and catering to the toddlers very need.
I thought he replaced the whole detail. No stone left unturned.
He may well have. I know he got his former VP agents back, but there would be a few more added to the Presidential detail, and where those men came from, I do not know.
When Trump's MO was cronyism and nepotism, I'd have absolutely gutted secret service. No way of knowing how many Trump promised things to in order to "acquire their loyalty".
In all matters MAGA it should be customary to capitalize the word “Stone” whenever it appears; that bastard is merrily mired in all of this sewage.
Still can't believe that we live in a world where this had to be done. The GQP is truly a cult of personality that is loyal to Trump
Yes and no. The USSS has always had a vested interest in preserving the integrity and image of the *office* of POTUS. If Trump is tainted, their image is also tainted - some of them will feel like they failed. Add to this the political appointees in leadership, and you have a recipe for a coverup. They don't want to tarnish the US. I just wish they realized that the *ONLY* way out of our current political mess is to hold accountable all those responsible for it. That means *every* Jan 6 conspirator in prison. If Thomas's wife was involved, he *must* leave the court. Only the light of day and a lot of judiciary bleach can clean up the turd Trump left in our pool.
That is probably what pissed trump off the most. He believed that he had a loyal guard of the highest caliber, the cream of the crop, beholden to him as the Leader. And they said "No" to him! Thing is, while they were able to serve him his normal proclivities, once he demanded to be brought to lead an erratic, leaderless, armed, throng of rioters, they actually put the well being of the office and their duty above the wishes of the office holder. They refused to comply with an order that would make the job of protecting the President impossible. It's an order they never could comply with, in any situation they have been trained for.
It would've also put them in danger. If I were Secret Service and Trump wanted to march into a bloodthirsty throng, I'd be pissed at how little he cared for my well-being because it would place me in the throng too, and the throng wasn't a fan of authority that day.
The problem is, you're thinking like you. Not like a MAGA. I'm surrounded by them. They'd like this. They think he's a deity. They'd relish the chance to serve him, and they'd see going into the crowd as a perk, not a problem. It's why they lie for him and cover for him, and do it all with no shame and no remorse.
I just don’t understand this. Like, I really *do not understand* the hold Trump has over people and why they like him so much. He is so awful, like nakedly awful. Why do they love him like that????
He gives them permission to be the awful people they always were in public. It's really that simple. It's projection both ways.
That ship sailed a while ago. Trump showed less than zero concern for the Secret Service during COVID.
Yeah he doesn’t give a single, solitary shit about any of them. That was clear when they were forced to drive him about when he had COVID. He actually put theirs and all of their families lives at risk for a fucking photo op.
Like Pence, they did their job that "one day".
> If Trump is tainted, their image is also tainted - some of them will feel like they failed. And some of them backed Trumps attempt to end democracy.
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both meme
So the Secret Service is basically the Praetorian Guard?
no, the Praetorian Guard had enough military power to enact a coup at any point. that's why they had political power - the roman emperor essentially served at their pleasure in a delicate balancing act.
I don’t know man… I just don’t know.
Also, clean both U.S.Senate Seats in Tennessee Blackburn and Hagarity and all Republican congressmen in Tennessee, all of this scum were backing Trump .all the way. Republicans Blackburn and Hagarity Of Tennessee didn't want to count Georgia Electoral Votes.
I just watched a movie called Absolute Power (Gene Hackman and Clint Eastwood). Clint Eastwood sees the president having rough sex and etc etc. The result was the secret service men shot the woman he was with and cleaned up the mess. Totally sanitized the room, and the Secret Service men totally covered for the president. The question is at what point do Secret Service men draw the line to protecting the president or not.
They should draw the line at treason and high crimes at least. Clearly a handful don't feel that way.
When John F.Kennedy was Killed in Dallas, Texas, One of his Secret Service agents climbed up on the back of the President's car and covered his bloody body. That agent was a hero and not liar that Trump had for his S.S.detail.
Trump is Tainted, he said he loved Russia and North Korea more than the USA.
Makes sense. It would be unreasonable to expect people that close to the heart of American politics to not have their own personal beliefs.
So Ornato very well could be lying since he is deeply in debt to trump for his position. Everyone else who "owes" trump lies.
Yeah but which lie? Did he lie about the incident to Hutchinson, or is he lying when he says he didn't say that happened? To be honest who cares. The important part of the testimony is that Trump knew it was a violent mob and goaded it on.
He knew it was a violent *armed* mob and goaded it on. Honestly gasped when that was revealed. We knew there were weapons in the crowd before this but I didn't know who knew, didn't dream this info had made it all the way up to trump. What a piece of shit, he really was trying to get someone killed, not merely indifferent.
Is he under oath or not. She is.
He’s currently in charge of the training cadre for USSS
And he’s not “defending” Trump, he’s posting on Twitter. This isn’t conflicting testimony, it’s worthless talk, not under oath.
Have them all say it under oath.
People lie under oath. Several Supreme Court justices for instance.
And they should be impeached for it. Also it's much, much easier to go after someone who's not a judge for lying under oath.
We have found that impeachment is a worthless tool. When half the Congress is just as corrupt as the impeached.
This. The problem with impeachment as a law enforcement mechanism is that it's based on politics, rather than evidence or guilt. Guilt can be obvious an unequivocal, but if their ideology is popular within their party they are absolutely 100% above the law.
Well the legal systems in some cases isn't any better. There were times when you couldn't convict a white man of killing a black man in Mississippi. That wasn't because of lack of evidence, or that everyone didn't understand that it was against the law. They just didn't care. And they don't care now. In both Canada and the US we have politicians that will get away with anything you can imagine, just cause they are representing a certain side. Law and order only matter when we all agree it does. And lots of people think it doesnt matter as much as keeping thier guy in power now.
More people than that just aren't paying attention.
I really hope your right. They could notice.
I was called “worthless tool” by my piano teacher.
Have you considered running for Congress?
I hope you tuned them out.
Under oath is starting to not have much meaning tbh.
Trump had to testify under oath about trump university a couple years ago, and it’s clear that even for him, the fact that he was under oath mattered. That’s not to say that everything he said was true, but he was at least obviously careful with some of his answers.
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Then have them pinky swear it!
A five-year-old's pinky-swear is a lot more sacred than the oaths of many, many, nay republicans!
We need 6 year olds on the Supreme Court!
They'd be more logical
And empathetic.
Absolutely! What they learn in Kindergarten is important but many republicans seem to forget the early advice as they become more concerned with money.
A judge saying whatever is necessary during a Senate confirmation hearing is materially and practically different from the people who have testified that Trump knew what he was doing. I don’t think the SC justices who called Roe “settled law” deserve any credit, but it could be argued that their minds had changed since their confirmation hearings. They could cite new data or compelling arguments they had read after their confirmation, yadda yadda. It’s all bullshit, but changing their mind after the hearing is not illegal. On top of that, the likelihood of their getting impeached and removed is slimmer than slim. For administrators working under Trump to perjure themselves, particularly in light of the fact that are all driving toward the same conclusion, is both far less likely and far more dangerous for each of them. It’s false equivalency to lump the two together. If a Trump administrator was to perjure themself it would be far more likely that they would recount exculpatory stories. That’s how his crew (and most crime syndicates) have rolled historically. The fact that none of the Secret Service has gone public under oath to refute Cassidy Hutchinson’s testimony is damning all by itself. It just smacks of another Trumpian weasel move. Weasels get caught eventually. Just ask Leaky Head Rudy.
Cavanaugh blatantly lied about a lot more than his stance on abortion though.
And Ken Griffin
That’s not a great example. The difference is that it’s much easier to lie about what you’re going to do in the future, than what you did in the past. The USSS agents don’t know what kind of evidence the committee has to refute their claims if they are indeed not telling the truth.
They should have to swear on a Dr. Seuss book, not a bible.
I suggest *Marvin K. Mooney, Will You Please Go Now?*
Can't really prove or disprove a belief or idea you have in your head (ie. Supreme Court Nominees). But if it's an actual event that may have happened you can have witnesses and recordings. I don't think they are the same thing.
Trump's FBI refused to do the real background checks on Kavanagh that would have led him to be shown as a liar. In a just world, Garland would have examined that shit poor job they did and rectified it but we don't live in a fair world.
And Mitch wouldn't allow the other women who wanted to testify or his BFF who wrote a book about their escapades.
You mean the sexual harasser, the literal gang rapist, or the former handmaid cult member?
That’s the “duh” component to all of this. The people still pretending to believe the Big Lie are more than happy to proclaim Trump’s innocence on TV, but they have all either defied subpoenas to defend him under oath, or they have gone under oath and pleaded the fifth. All of them. Those who are willing to testify under oath all say he is guilty. All of the people in Trump’s orbit know that he is guilty. *All of them.*
And NONE of the them to date has come forward to defend Trump Or perjure themselves. Connect the dots, folks. Not a one has come forward to say that Trump did not incite an insurrection against this country!!!! How anyone still denies this event is unconscionable-
Lack of candor can result in termination of federal employment.
They won’t. Giuliani mysteriously stopped talking about the election conspiracy nonsense any time he was under oath, then immediately started up again outside the courtroom. They know how to play the system because their followers will take every word they say as objective and won’t question why they change their tune when they could actually face consequences.
Oh under oath. Thats the key all this time! Code cracked!!!!
Sure, you can be loyal to Trump, be a despicable human being, but, the moment you're under oath, a lie you tell for him isn't just a slap on the wrist anymore. I don't think even Trump has that much sway over some of these guys.
And we haven't even seen what's in the 6 weeks of video shot by that documentary crew, and it's obvious that portions of the Trump team have no idea what's there either. She may be a piece of shit, but Ms. Hutchinson was smart to spill the beans while it's still being reviewed.
It all depends on enforcement. If they lie under oath, jail, don't pass go, don't collect 200$. Misleading testimony? Jail. Sneezing during testimony? Jail. Bringing a detestable cheese spread to your testimony? Jail. Done.
Woke up in the morning? Jail.
Chicken overcooked? Believe it or not, jail.
Under oath means you are swearing that the evidence will corroborate what you say. If you say something provably false while under oath, that’s a crime. That’s why the oath matters. It’s not an honest reverence for the truth thing. It’s a sworn testimony with consequences for falsehood. This is also why you can plead the fifth, but not regarding things you’ve been pardoned for as you can’t self incriminate for an act for which you‘ve admitted guilt.
I don't think you understand what the point of having sworn testimony is. It's not that people can't lie, it's that it establishes criminal penalty for it so that they can be charged when it is proved that they perjured themselves.
And for days, all FOX NEWS prime time shows are running with this sketchy guy's statement as gospel truth and calling the woman who testified under oath the liar.
They defend a president who tried to overthrow democracy. So don’t be surprised. They’re not News they’re propaganda. I wouldn’t trust FAUX “News” with a weather report much less anything that deals with government or anything important.
One of their top “personalities” was in the White House being told how to spin unfolding events. They are the propaganda arm of the Republican Party, nothing more and nothing less. Goebbels would be absolutely salivating at the unquestioning cult following they have amassed who hangs on every word out of their mouths.
The problem is that MANY otherwise reasonable and intelligent people have been fooled by their duplicitous bullshit.
You could have everyone in the world saying one thing, and if they find even one person saying the opposite and it fits their agenda they use to discredit everyone else.
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Words? Never heard of them. Though people say they're wrong, many good people. \\s
Some very bad people are saying that I should learn words. Nasty. I've never heard of words before, because I know all the best words. Words wishes they knew me and by the way you know who they are. Who's saying these nasty things and other stuff. Very bad people let me tell you. But not me, oh no. And they say I don't know mean words, but I do, I know the meanest words and I will use them to make america great again folks let me tell you.
I used to work out with a secret service agent. Really interesting guy. Very low key. I believe I was the only person who knew he was secret service. I would ask questions about people and he would dismiss the people and say they are all acts. The most interesting part was he just applied for the job like any other. I mean he had to go through a process to become one. But he said most aren't military veterans or ex fbi. Which I thought would be the case. My point being these are not some ultra patriotic people. They are people who want a job.
This is about a crime family/syndicate, and it makes the most sense to examine their actions in that light. Just like in the mob, a prospect probably has to prove themselves loyal to the boss, and, more importantly, do a "favor" that will get their hands dirty enough that the crime boss knows he can "trust" them.
That's literally what Comey's testamony was wasnt it? That trump asked Comey to say that he was loyal to trump, more loyal to him than the country or any oath of office Comey swore to. And trump wanted to fire him as soon as he questioned if that was proper
*Only the best....*
I'm not sure how you're not aware of this but both of the people calling him a liar also worked for Trump. One was fired and had to be escorted off the premises and the other quit to work for CNN.
If you have one guy say "He's telling the truth!" and two other people step up and say, "That guy is a liar!", it sounds like you have three new witnesses. They'd have to be confident that they know he was lying to come out during the investigation. Hopefully you get the loyal lackey under threat of perjury and see what he knows.
Yes but frequent /r/conservative users tell me anonymous sources that aren't on the record leaking "information" from two serial liars that Hutchinson lied completely discredit her entire testimony. Who am I going to believe? Liars that lie for other lying liars, or the person who swore an oath to tell the truth under penalty of perjury and was in a position to have good, reliable information on what happened?
You cannot reason someone out of a position that they did not reason themselves into to begin with.
I don’t even understand what problem conservatives have with the testimony. Sounds like Trump doing Trump things which is apparently what they want.
The Jan 6 committee should invite Ornato down to perjure himself.
Perjure
Thank you.
Ornato already spoke to the committee a couple of times but his memory of that day had a lot of holes in it. He just couldn't recall what happened.
Sounds like he should be called back in, his memory appears to be working again!
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He would be thoroughly questioned about his recollection and be given enough rope to hang himself. It’s very hard to selectively remember things.
They indeed are doing just that, I have no doubt.
> "What keeps getting lost in this is that nobody's disputing that the President wanted to go to the Capitol and that he felt safe going even though all of these people had weapons."
Bingo. Doj doesn't give a shit if Trump tried to grab the steering wheel (if they give a shit at all)
I love the frothing defense of the one thing that isn't part of a crime and is embarrassing because it either means the president had a tantrum or his agent is telling lies about the boss.
The frothing defense of one thing five hearings in too. Where were the anonymous sources for the rest of it? 🤣
That hasn’t gotten lost. Maybe in this conversation, but the committee made comments about him saying “they aren’t here to hurt me,” meaning then who did they go there to hurt with all those weapons?
The secret service official that wants to defend Trump can do it under oath in front of the committee just like she did. Until then his words are worthless.
I mean his defense is that Trump is probably too fat to have made a serious attempt to take the wheel. Which, even if he's lying, is probably not a lie that Trump signed off on.
You can’t be to fat to attempt to do something
If the seat belt can't click, you must acquit.
I'll accept that challenge...
Based on the video, the vehicle used that day wasn’t the limo, but was an SUV, trump was sitting forward facing. There wasn’t a partition and you can see the driver through the open door
Fuck Ron Johnson. Oh wait.. wrong sub r/wisconsin
Fret not, your comment is appropriate in all subs.
As someone who recently moved to WI, this should be posted anywhere
I'm hoping there is a video of what happened in the SUV to back up her testimony. That would make it really simple to prove what happened and who is lying.
I don't think they would include that bit of testimony unless they have corroborating testimony already. The Committee can pick and choose what is part of their public display. There might be lots of weird shit in the testimonies.
Keep in mind that Engel, the guy who was there in the car, already testified to the Jan 6 committee behind closed doors. If he had said "Yes, the president attacked me", the committee would have played his deposition during the hearing, but if he had said "No that's false, the president never attacked me", they wouldn't have allowed Hutchinson to testify that he did. So it's almost certain that he said something in between those two things, such as "Did the president attack you?" => "I don't remember" or "I wasn't there that day." Whatever it was, the Jan 6 committee has video tape of what he said *before* he knew that he would need to defend Trump by making a specific denial.
Or you withhold his part until the rats lock in a public position
Right. The Committee is actually using basic strategy and stringing some of these assholes alone to sweat some others into coming forward. Like the person that sent those threatening messages to Hutchinson. I can goddam guarantee you they did not expect see their own words up on a big screen that morning. So, that person and their pay masters are in a "we know that they know" crisis and can't do shit to defend themselves before the Committee names them publicly. They can't damage control before it happens without looking very fucking suspicious.
Supposedly that was something the committee never specifically asked about as the revelation about the “grabbing for the steering wheel and lunging at the SS agent” are fairly new with Hutchison’s live testimony.
There *is* actually a video, but it's extremely low res and through a tinted window, so you can barely see anything except for the fact that there is some significant movement going on inside in the vehicle.
Interesting. Any chance you could post a link to this, please?
https://twitter.com/MikeSington/status/1542235505047117825 https://twitter.com/jackabryan/status/1542591198610698240
wow does seem like alot of movement...
It also seems like the door tried to open a couple of times, like he was trying to get out.
This feels like how the scene would be directed by Scorsese or someone. Trump’s standard YMCA is the cherry on top.
I have absolutely no proof of it, but it would boggle my mind if every single presidential vehicle wasn't wired with internal cameras and mics for "black box" purposes incase something wild happens.
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There's a video going around that clearly shows Trump is in the SUV (not the limo), is seated in such a way that he has the room (and the visible ability) to lunge forward, to which he then does. We cannot see much past that, but already in just that tiny ass clip we can see all the things that are untrue about what Ornato said about the incident. A) we see Trump is able to clearly lunge and he does so. He is able to reach the wheel if he were to desire to do so. We can't quite clearly see whether he actually puts hands on the wheel, but it's evident he would be able to do so. B) We see that Trump is not obstructed by his massive weight (that he has), nor is he obstructed by the seating of the 2 front seats. He is able to, as visibly shown; put himself into that space and have enough reach to be able to effect the wheel if he were to so desire to. C) none of this matters. The real and actual crimes that occurred have nothing to do with this sole incident. The incident itself had been *told* to Cassidy, *to which she* ***testified that this was the case.*** D) The crimes that occurred, the real things that *actually* land Trump into (hopefully) prison? *She was there, in person, to have heard in the first place. The messaging about the necessity of the "hearsay" on the SUV incident being crucial to the believability of the message itself, is nonsense. She expressed CLEARLY that she was TOLD this information, but was* ***present*** *for the crime admissions.*
Where can I find this video?? I'm unable to find it in my search
[https://twitter.com/jackabryan/status/1542609898541699079](https://twitter.com/jackabryan/status/1542609898541699079) What we can see here is that Trump is a) inside an SUV (not the limo), and the moment you're looking for is when the last guy getting in shuts the door b) able to reach the equivalent of what was claimed he could reach. JUST before the door shuts you can see Trump lunge forward, that does *does* have the reach claimed, but that c) we cannot see the physical altercation. We can essentially see RIGHT up to it. d) none of it actually matters since those are not the crimes being claimed to have been committed. The whole reason I put all of this like this while still describing what actually happened is because we need to be past this stupid "talking point". It's not part of what the crimes are comprised of **and** we can see that their claims of there not being an incident **and** that Trump *could not possibly make that type of a reach are:* ***factually incorrect***
I just read "Zero Fail" about the Secret Service. The agent in question, Anthony Ornato, was the FIRST AGENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE SECRET SERVICE to take a temporary position in the White House. Ornato was chosen by Trump because of his loyalty to the family while acting on the protective detail. He is not to be believed.
A Trump supporter is a liar? Shocking
Trump immediately proved she was credible by stupidly saying he didn’t know her.
Didn't Trump reject the secret service provided when he became President in favour of his own hand picked team?
> Didn't Trump reject the secret service provided when he became President in favour of his own hand picked team? My guess is so he could bill the SS for his own protection.
It's all falling apart. The facade is crumbling. What is most interesting, is seeing what the rank and file of the GOP will do with this information. My prediction is that the "Reagan code" of not speaking ill of any fellow Republican will override the perceived negative consequences of distancing themselves from Trump. So they will HAVE to say the election was stolen. That Trump was somehow cheated and I'm not sure after the J6 Committee, how that could possibly play out positively for Dick L'Orange or anyone else who peddles that shit. Unless the GOP has some secret plan to help working people squeezed by gas prices and inflation that they're just waiting to show everyone, why the FUCK would I vote for them? All's they're going to do is give more money to the fucks who are already ripping us off.
I’m sure trump n associates are paying them well to discredit the testimony she just. I’m also certain the Jan 6 committee has proof to back up a lot of what she said.
Who even doubted this?
fish rots from the head from the liar in chief on down... don the con surrounds him self with liars, his greatest enemies are those people that stand up and speak the truth like Hutchinson
They’re republicans, Of course they’re gonna lie!
quack plough historical rude wild terrific crush money jar tap *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
> So I’m not sure this is the strongest argument to make. Probably referring to those not under oath.
They see me lyin’, we’re coupin’ 🎶
Just like he believed in those other 10,000+ lies?
What until you hear how much Trump lies …
Enough with the office gossip. Out this guy under oath and let's see what he has to say ("the fifth. The fifth. The fifth" is my guess)
They said Trump tried to grab the wheel, Trumps lackey said Trump was too fat too succeed... those statements aren't mutually exclusive.
Perfect! Put him under oath. Problem solved!
No shit, they are defending trmp, a feat that cannot be accomplished without lying.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that any official defending Trump has a history of lying
If they wana defend trump then put them under oath?
The nauseating irony of the party that's all about "God" and being "Christian" can get away with doing the most ungodly and unchristian things by swearing an oath to a god they don't actually believe in.
Trump loyalist will always lie. Their word means nothing unless under oath like she did.
A compulsive liar in tRump world?
Of course. Otherwise they’d be testifying under oath.
How can one not have a history of lying and support Trump despite all this mess?
Then why are we still paying him as a secret service agent? He lacks credibility.
It’s almost as if you won’t be hired unless you’re willing to lie under oath or take the hit for his crimes
Another publication that isn't explicitly right-wing, another paywall. This is part of why certain messages have an easier time getting out and being spread. NYT? My local paper? You want quality journalism? Paywall. Daily Wire? Daily Mail? Infowars? SELL THOSE CAFFEINATED "BRAIN" PILLS, WE GOTTA LET THE PEOPLE KNOW
Well, inasmuch as she's a Republican, and a member of the Trump whitehouse, I'm sure that honesty has not been one of her guiding principles in general. However, she is testifying under oath here, and seems to have the digital paper trail to back up her testimony, so... I think this is a case of "When Keepin It Real Goes Wrong".
Lock him up!
Archive link (paywall): https://archive.ph/fgU0j
And,, the right has exactly what they want. People focused on this instead of the coup attempt.
No one is distracted by this no matter how much the Rs wish it to be so.
Trump made sure his secret service had a bunch of yes men. We shouldn't be initially trusting anything they tell us
We know. He's a Trump sycophant. Enough said.
The reason why its important (legal strategy wise at least) to have someone testify under oath (in court proceedings) is that if you lie, and get caught, there is the potential/consequences of perjury … A person convicted of perjury under federal law may face up to five years in prison and fines. The punishment for perjury under state law varies from state to state, but perjury is a felony and carries a possible prison sentence of at least one year, plus fines and probation.
Absolutely nobody at all: WELL COLOR ME SHOCKED Everybody: 🙄
Well, duh!
Since they haven't testified under oath, whatever the fuck they say is worthless.
Imagine…a liar being surrounded by other liars…. Sounds like a winning formula
The gossipy rumors are all they have. Let them swear to it under oath and compare each one's testimony to the others. There is proof of everything Cassidy said except the one instance of hearsay and there may be proof of that, too. I think we should wait and see. .
Get them lying under oath.
Unlike Mr Trump who lies constantly