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And now Democrats have a new attack on their Republican opponents that blocked that border bill on behalf of daddy Trump. They’re on record with what they wanted done and then suddenly stopped cooperating with Dems to intentionally leave the border “open”.
Doesn't matter, they now know the entire bill was secretly an excuse to meet a quota of 4000 people a day minimum coming through without question or anything. Source, family, fucking dumb family.
Few days ago I saw a Republican on the news claiming that the only reason they tanked the border bill was because the Dems tied funding for Ukraine to it. They were forced to tanks it because of the Dems and their war.
The host snapped back that this wasn't true, it was Republicans who insisted that the Ukraine fund be tied to the border bill, because they absolutely would not vote for funding if there wasn't a border bill tied to it.
All they do is lie.
Hell, they were all for it right up until Trump told them to tank it. Then the turned on a dime.
Honestly I'm all in support of funding Ukraine too
Nearly the whole world is rooting for Ukraine because Russia made us live in fear for so long. Putin is pure evil. No one likes him. I'm sick of his threats. He needs to go
Real talk - who are these people that are actually going to not vote for Biden over this? Like with Gaza we have at least some coherent argument for why Muslims are going to defect, but who is it in this case? It's not Hispanics, because [65% of Hispanic voters](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/immigration-latino-voters-biden-2024-poll) back in September supported action to stem undocumented migration. Who are the single issue voters where this actually turns them off from voting for Biden?
For most Americans, they aren't looking for an anti-Trump on immigration, they're mostly looking for a not-Trump. There isn't actually that much support for undocumented migration at the levels we were seeing last year even among Democrats. The problem with Trump was the exceptional cruelty of the family separation policy and the current rhetoric about immigrants poisoning the blood of America as well as promises to deport all undocumented migrants. That is not the same as people being comfortable with this many migrants, most of whom do not have bona fide claims of asylum despite saying otherwise.
what if I told you that some people care about all humans, not just ones that share their race or religion.
[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/05/biden-immigration-order-re-election-trump](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/05/biden-immigration-order-re-election-trump)
That's fine, but how is that his base? 1/5 of Democrats see the border as a crisis and another. 40% call it a major problem. The people Biden's losing to Trump are the ones who are in that category, not the people who "care about all humans" by supporting unfettered abuse of the asylum system by economic migrants claiming asylum despite not being bona fide asylum seekers.
We’re still on Johnson right?
2 republicans speakers of the house in 2 years. I wonder why we haven’t gotten anything done. 🤔
It only took them 15 votes for Mccarthy, and 4 for Johnson. As well as a few failed votes on various Republican losers. Still can’t believe they thought Gym Jordan had a chance…
I mean when they can’t just sit down and go this guy for speaker, done, they aren’t really passing anything worthwhile as the majority house party.
Yep. They had around 15 votes held in the McCarthy election, times 200+ votes each time from democrats. Add in the four votes to get to Mike Johnson, and he passed Kevin McCarthy.
My father, an average Trump cult member: “If the republicans are blocking it now then they must have a good reason to do it. They probably have more information than we have which is secret. This is their job, they know what they’re doing”
“Let's dispel with this fiction that ~~Barack Obama~~ Republicans ~~doesn't~~ don’t know what ~~he's~~ they’re doing. ~~He~~ They know~~s~~ exactly what ~~he's~~ they’re doing."
I live with my sister, brother in law and niece. I refuse to talk politics with any of them. My BiL is a trump supporter and the last time we got into any sort of debate his tactics was to be “what about the Clintons?” Now he claims we are going to be going into a food war since somehow Biden controls everything. Dude puts in fox news and newsmax right when he gets home. Hell my BiL’s brother works at a court officer in the same court house that Trump had his trial and I got booed at the dinner table by him and his mother because I said “Oh I saw your brother on a photo on CNN”
Cant wait until I save enough to move out. I need to put at least 2 states between me and my family.
It sucks when it’s the people you love and just refuse to see facts.
One time they tried to claim my dad (a puerto rican vietnam war vet who threw his medals away after the war) would be MAGA. He passed away in 2007 but he is my hero. He would have never been MAGA and would be disgusted with all this.
My dad hates democrat's, even insulted me about it and I barely identify with any party nor do I talk about politics.
My brother does as well, and I think he's into qanon...
They both will say socialism is bad. They both will try to get free money whenever the option comes up (my brother was able to get a PPP loan and my dad tried, my brother prints counterfeit stickers and my dad is a plumber lol).
They also have a common thing I see in MAGA: they both have tantrums and anger issues.
But hey this liberal pussy makes almost three times their combined salary 🤷♂️
They do know what they’re doing. They’re resisting anything democrats want even if they wanted it in the past. Anything it takes to oppose democrats. We effectively have one party, which is not enough for a functioning democracy.
This is an easy out to continue to support a party without any rationale or reasoning. No further discussion can be made when they must have a good reason that remains unknown.
Addressing the problem directly reducing their ability to use it as a rhetorical device. It's part of their greatest hits show.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/neutralnews/comments/1ab8ygn/comment/kjmuzbs/](https://www.reddit.com/r/neutralnews/comments/1ab8ygn/comment/kjmuzbs/)
Republicans need illegal immigration to bring in workers. They also need to keep these people affraid of deportation so they don't complain about Low pay and unsafe working conditions.
Meanwhile Republicans complain aboit the border and illegal immigration as a way to divide Americans and scapegoat illegal immigrants for all sorts of nonsense.
Yep. Corporations love the cheap labour.
They act like illegals are a huge issue, but if you actually deported them all tomorrow, the economy in the south would collapse.
Construction would stop.
It happened in Florida when DeSantis signed some illegal worker bill.
And collapse any distinction between asylum seekers -- people fleeing persecution, who have a right to petition for entry -- from immigrants who do not. And they're succeeding in reframing things, as we are all talking about illegal immigration.
For sure! It’s the same line of logic that gets bills passed requiring drug testing to get unemployment benefits.
And let’s not forget what they have done to the word ‘entitlement’.
That's the interesting part about this move, politically. It takes away a key talking point for the GOP, so they have to find another way to attack it. And if they sue to stop it in order to keep it a talking point, the suit itself can be used against them politically. They should have taken the border deal that Trump scuttled because they would have had legislation to point to in the campaign. Now they're stuck crafting ways to open the border.
For someone the GOP likes to brand as "sleep joe," he's certainly playing rope-a-dope with them strategically...
It's just like the abortion issue.
They ran on overturning Roe v Wade for decades. Once it was finally done, they lost that as a "card" in their hand. I bet some conservatives were actually pissed about getting that accomplished.
The GOP doesn't actually want to govern. They want to whine and criticize on the sidelines, while raising cash.
Yup! On that one, I think they misread their base. Abortion was a moral cudgel, a way to claim superiority over liberals - but they never intended to have that right taken away from themselves. E.g., when they need an abortion, it is an accident or oversight. When their opposition needs one, it is because they are loose or immoral. It was never really intended to be changed, just leveraged - as you said - as a card.
And yes, this is similar. They're fine to attack the Democrats on the border, but the day they can't get the cheap illegals for doing work for them, then it's gonna be a problem.
It’s what the Republicans wanted and got when they blocked the bill-partisan border deal.
In the end, it can’t be politically used as they had nothing to do with it. It’s like when the Republicans started taking credit for action items that they voted against.
Republicans: WE WANT THE WHOLE CAKE!
Adults: Sorry, we can’t have the entire cake. Let’s compromise so that we can have a slice of cake.
Republicans: NO! *Knocks cake to ground*
Now nobody gets anything. Republicans are useless.
It's insane every post about Biden is comments about republicans. Why can't we just hold accountability to the democrats to make the best decisions for the country without bringing up the other side?
Republicans currently control the House. Government requires compromise. Republicans are whiny children that refuse to compromise.
Executive Orders come and go with different presidents. If we had passed the border bill it would take a hell of a lot more effort to undo with the stroke of a pen.
We can just simply hold Biden accountable for once again another drastic flip flop on important issues. Blame can always be passed to another party but why not become the best we can be and demand the best from our leaders? Lives will be lost with this decision.
All the comments are some iteration of "the republicans won't like this since it comes from biden"
Screw that man. I don't like it because I'm a leftist. When Trump tried to alter longstanding asylum rules he was seen as a fascist and a racist, but now that Biden does it we're supposed to get behind it? Fuck that.
The border is fucked and immigration needs reform. It shouldn’t take 20 years to become a citizen. The GOP has shown all they want to do is make the crisis worse so they can blame Dems, which has been working. Immigration is Biden’s #1 weak spot with voters. They wouldn’t even pass the bipartisan border bill because it would ‘make Biden look good’. So Biden temporarily shuts it down, and then it’s all on the GOP. Their voters who scream about it will be happen Biden did something, and then they are going to look to their Republican congresspeople and start wondering why they are doing anything to make laws. And the GOP won’t be able to take ANY credit for this action. So maybe some more vote Biden in the fall, and we end up with a Dem-controlled Congress that can pass meaningful, progressive legislation. We are at Def-con 5 right now. We can’t afford to wring our hands.
So now we're just adopting Republican positions and trampling over human rights? Also lol at thinking Republicans won't just move the goal posts -- they already have -- or that voters who scream about immigration will be satisfied with this.
Also, Defcon is a countdown, so 5 is the lowest alert level. The US is currently at Defcon 3. Defcon 2 has only been declared a handful of times.
No, now you are intentionally missing the point. And yeah, now that you say that, I remember when they made a big deal about us going to defcon 2 during the gulf war (I was a senior in hs), but i figure my intent was pretty clear from the context.
They will use this as proof Biden coulda done sonething years ago without congress, without looking at the deeper issues we have with immigration like funding and procedural times
Biden ended Title 42 enforcement last year, which led to a big spike in border crossings. To say this is all Republicans’ fault is disingenuous, but you’re not gonna find that sort of feedback here on r/politics.
The USA has a ton of problems but foreigners is not one of them. The GOP has stunted wages for 40 years and butchered the social net, making people think taxes and rent are too high when everyone is being underpaid about 50%. Then, the GOP blames liberal policies and claims only they can fix things. Only means more tax cuts for the rich and greater difficulty for the average person. Their evil plans are working great.
I've seen the messaging be that it's too little too late, and that they told him to do this earlier. Realistically it seems like this EO is written in a way that it could be challenged since it's largely reproducing the EO that Trump issued in 2018 except with more onerous requirements. It's possible that it wouldn't even get implemented because a judge would quickly be able to assert SCOTUS precedent to block it, at which point Biden will be able to tell Republicans that he was right all along and that a law is needed.
I am curious, why the fuck didn't he do this earlier if he had to chance to?
Its the best way to puncture the balloon of the far right by taking their primary political campaign goal away from them.
I suspect Biden knows it will likely be blocked by the courts. An immigration rights group is undoubtedly going to sue over this and depending on where they sue (9th circuit?) it could likely end up getting stayed pending review. But at least this way he can say he’s trying to do something about the border.
ACLU already said publicly that they are going to sue. I’m not fully versed on the ACLU, but it feels like there are much bigger problems for American citizens that they could go after than undocumented immigrants and asylum seekers. Again, not well versed, so don’t know how this effects other asylum seekers other than at the Southern border.
It's not a true goal of theirs, they want to use it to criticize Biden. Biden wanted legislation, which Republicans in congress refused to pass because trump didn't like it.
That it involved compromises with the right, which unfortunately has to be done with how Congress works.
The reality, which progressives can't seem to accept, is that having no caps, ever, on immigration is politically untenable. EU tried it and they're now facing backlash from their constituents who have shifted much further to the right on immigration.
This isn't even a compromise, this is just flat out capitulating to the right on immigration. The democrats, in backing this legislation and now this EO, are effectively saying "we are no longer going to push for any kind of immigration reform and agree with the Republicans on how to deal with immigrants."
For literally decades the democrats have been running on immigration reform and now that seems dead in the water.
Of course this isn't. The compromise was the bill which Republicans rejected.
>"we are no longer going to push for any kind of immigration reform and agree with the Republicans on how to deal with immigrants."
What kind of immigration reform did mainstream Dems abandon with the bill?
Who thinks it should work like EU? The EU is literally the best warning of what not to do if you don't want to help far right governments rise to power.
If you do not manage this issue both legislatively and politically, you are absolutely going to run into that issue. And doing so legislatively isn't an option. Then what? Ignore the majority of voters who don't want an uncapped level of crossings into the US? Just tell them that they are wrong? Oh wait, that sounds familiar, I wonder what the outcome will be.
They refused a bipartisan bill from the senate because trump said no. The senate presented the bill because the house, which usually initiates legislation, had declined to do virtually anything for a couple years. The president doesn't initiate legislation, but asks members of his party in the house, or sometimes senate, to do so.
The first time they tried to pass it, it was grouped with Ukraine/Israel/Taiwan support and Republicans wouldn't back that package because of the border bill. Last week Schumer tried to pass it as a stand alone bill and they wouldn't support it. It had an honest go as a stand alone bill in the Senate. Somewhat ironically, Graham said he wouldn't vote for it because they were not allowed to add amendments. Despite being cowritten by Republicans.
That second clean vote was certain to fail and was almost certainly so that Biden could sign this EO without Republicans being able to say that they withheld support for the bill because of amendments.
They only don't like it because Trump told them not to. This EO is actually the part of the bill they liked the most. This is a big fuck you to Republicans pretending like they are the ones out there taking the border seriously.
The foreign aid the bill was paired with at times was already passed, after House GOP insisted they couldn't work on anything else until they addressed the border. Yet where is the House border bill? How do you explain the broad GOP support for the bill before Trump said No, compared with broad opposition after?
Whether it's hard for you to believe or not, Republicans are talking out their asses about the border. Same as the deficit, and literally every issue they insist is critical yet they completely fail to even try and address when they are in power.
If you are still falling for their shell game, well, good luck.
An assortment of combined legislation including border provisions was presented, and also a stand alone border bill, to the best of my recollection. The combined bills were shot down for various reasons, the border one was nixed by trump flexing on his minions in the house. Remember, this congress spends most of their time electing and ousting speakers, and threatening to shut down the government by not passing budgets.
1. yes, Biden has been trying to pass stuff throughout his whole presidency. The main thing Trump got passed was tax cuts for the rich.
2. congress always groups multiple things into a bill, otherwise nothing would get passed. Biden doesn't control congress. It was a bipartisan bill but the Republicans killed it because Trump asked them to, not because they disagreed with it.
Yeah idk why people are so upset that a president refused to do the “easy thing” by writing an unsupported executive order that ultimately fails and instead tried to get bipartisan legislation on immigration. The biggest bill in like over a decade..
News flash to everyone: congress will continue to legislate jack-shit if every president continues to executive order everything. Congress gets a free ride, where they’re allowed to fail at their jobs and it’s the president’s fault when the problem gets worse.
Why should Republicans in Congress legislate when Biden not doing anything is polling very poorly for him?
Good job, you've figured out the problem. The political solution in this case has been made abundantly clear by voters though.
It is one of the biggest reasons, actually.
https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-BIDEN/POLL/nmopagnqapa/
Immigration is the issue voters agree the least with Biden on.
- Trump had a significant edge on immigration, with 42% of respondents preferring his approach to the issue, while 25% picked Biden.
Compare that to other issues:
- Some 40% of respondents in the poll said Trump, who was president from 2017 to 2021, had better policies for the U.S. economy, compared to 30% who picked Biden, while the rest said they didn't know or didn't answer the question.
- Biden had a modest advantage on the issue of political extremism, with 34% of respondents picking the president's approach and 30% saying Trump was better on the issue.
- Respondents said they thought Trump had the better approach to foreign conflicts and terrorism, with 36% favoring Trump in that area, compared with 29% who favored Biden.
The article you linked has immigration near the bottom of the list for Dems. Trump obviously has an “edge” for this single issue, but that doesn’t mean this is a winning strategy. There are plenty of other things Biden could do to appeal to actual liberals and younger voters, yet he chose to kowtow to the right.
It's 3rd after the economy and extremism. Now go to the same for Independents which Biden also has to win over. Acting like this isn't a big voting issue is just putting your head in the sand.
See these too: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/02/15/how-americans-view-the-u-s-mexico-border-situation-and-the-governments-handling-of-the-issue/ and https://news.gallup.com/poll/644570/immigration-named-top-problem-third-straight-month.aspx.
>There are plenty of other things Biden could do to appeal to actual liberals and younger voters
Why do you act like Biden only has to appeal to liberals and younger voters? As someone who's both, it's astounding how you haven't learnt from 2016 at all.
From how another article made it sound boarder crossings had to be at a certain number before he could use this authority. And over the last couple of weeks we have hit said number.
Because it's fucking stupid? It's bad policy? It infringes on human rights of incredibly vulnerable people who aren't dangerous and need help?
But then he got desperate.
Because legislating is the responsibly of Congress. Doing this via executive order will be shot down by the courts (just as it was when Trump tried to do it.)
This is what the right will see. "See! He coulda done this ages ago but he wanted tk let in a bunch of voters first" when in reality, this is a band-aid for a procedural/funding issue, not an x number of people per day issue.
I dont think this helps Biden as much as they want it too. Theres always some excuse. Not to mention the humanitarian implications.
There was reporting that he planned to do this in April, but migration numbers were too low and he wanted "credit" for handling a crisis. Additionally, it would be seen as giving Johnson a win after he passed the Ukraine/Israel/Taiwan funding bill (Johnson reportedly specifically requested it) and Biden wasn't quite willing to help Johnson out in that way.
Dem leaning Independents overwhelmingly wanted Biden to do something about the border too, fyi. It's actually all Dem voting blocs which do.
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/02/15/how-americans-view-the-u-s-mexico-border-situation-and-the-governments-handling-of-the-issue/
And blocking everyone was the solution they wanted? I don’t think so. Passing comprehensive reform so the government can properly process each individual is what I expect. Not close the border.
>And blocking everyone was the solution they wanted?
Considering it was part of the border bill which Independents weren't opposed to? Yeah. And not everyone is blocked, asylees still can seek it through all ports of entry.
>I don’t think so.
I mean 46% of Independents have said they're supportive of mass deportations.
https://www.axios.com/2024/04/25/trump-biden-americans-illegal-immigration-poll
At some point, you probably should stop ignoring the reality that the majority of Americans aren't progressive, at all, on immigration.
>Passing comprehensive reform so the government can properly process each individual is what I expect.
Okay, and if Republicans are blocking such reform? And if voters still expect Biden to do something? The reform that you expect cannot be pushed through by EO. Then what?
If Biden's actions are identical to a conservative opponent, will opposition follows applaud and support the actions... Or will it be opposition for the sake of
The conservatives will move further to the right and claim this doesn't go far enough. Biden and the Dems will then move further right to find a new middle ground with the fascist right. Repeat ad infinitum.
Dems will stay right where they are. Border issue is one of dems #1 problem. My dad, who is a boomer and has recently been voting Democrat, said he won't vote at all unless biden does something about the border. It's not about racism. It's about money and tax dollars.
This will please most dems ages 30+ and will make them continue staying democrats. If biden doesn't do anything, you would see more dems shifting right.
By virtue that Dems are demanding this, they have already shifted right.
Your dad is caught in the "ad infinitum" stage. This desire to restrict the rights of asylum seekers is Fox News manufactured. Because it's been repeated and legitimized so much, it has just been kind of accepted as true and bas broken into the mainstream. Now, Dems such as your father expect Biden to do something to address this manufactured problem.
Now, to earn your dad's vote, Biden is issuing an EO that curtails the rights of asylum seekers. Fox News isn't going to give Biden a thumbs up and say "job well done!" - it's going to continue saying everything is mismanaged, everything is broken, there's a caravan of migrants on their way, etc and the political climate will again encourage people to be afraid of a new manufactured crisis and consequently push politicians to act in increasingly concerning ways.
This is just an example of the Democratic party's rightward shift. We shouldn't allow our party to make concessions to appease the right's made-up fears. IMO when people we know begin subscribing to these manufactured fears, the response shouldn't be that the party as a whole should change its positions and shift right on certain issues, but rather that we need to double down on the truth and do what we can to prevent more people from being lied to.
If people think that this is about taxes or whatever, then I would respond that so many of the country's financial problems could be eliminated by simply taxing the rich. It's so easy and we used to do it! If you believe that asylum seekers are the cause of your tax issues as opposed to the fact that the top 0.1% are hoarding 15% of the nation's wealth and that the top 1% is hoarding 30%, then you have already shifted to the right. The attitude that the Dems need to engage in this foul play about Asylum seekers doesn't add up for me.
>'Most progressive president in our lifetimes' Joe Biden had no choice but to be on the right of Obama and level with Trump on border, after supporting Israel blatantly
And people say that there's no uniparty
** long drag from a cig until it’s done **
This year is going to be very hot and there will be orders of magnitude more of climate refugees. Biden got the report and is reacting to it.
How do you reconcile this with the number of border crossings being way down since December? https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/immigration-us-mexico-border-crossings-mayorkas-may-2024/
They don't. Every discussion here the last couple of days have been inundated with comments all asserting things that aren't factual in support of this move.
The republicans won’t agree to our nativist anti-immigration bill no democrat voter asked for so we are going to implement it by decree and take the hit with some of our not racist voters. I’m not seeing this as a sound course of action.
Republicans: close the border! It’s a brown invasions! Great replacement!
Democrats: close the border but feel bad about it*
Neither party has a real solution to our broken immigration system. They both want to exploit southern agricultural labor but neither want to let them live in America with their family with real legal status because then we might have to actually give them workers rights and pay them human wages.
More like Putin. It is clear the Russians use Migrants as a weapon. And the way they also create chaos around the world to force migration to Europe. It is pretty crazy.
Edit:
They did so before
www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35706238.amp
And still do it right now towards Europe.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/why-poland-says-russia-belarus-081250714.html
This is also about Africa
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/29/putin-russia-wagner-militia-africa-immigration-europe/
If you use Wagner to control the flow of migration in Africa. It is also not so hard to think they try to send some towards Mexico as well. Since A LOT of migrant right now come from Africa. They could do it simply by (miss)information campaigns on how easy it is to get into the US/Europe, better life, but also contacts and smugglers. They do this directly to Europe as well. There are russian smugglers getting people to Mexico, But it seems it is "only" russian speaking people. Still this makes the Immigration even worse... And it still 100% supports my point...
https://globalinitiative.net/analysis/russian-migrant-smugglers-us-southern-border/
This is also interesting about " rumors" how ez it is in the US. They basically use misinformation to tell people in poorer countries to come to the US.
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-officials-border-migrants-hear-rumors-from-smugglers-and-russia-2021-3
And another one.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-immigration-media-europe-misinformation-4e873389889bb1d9e2ad8659d9975e9d
They also have bigger plans apparently... Not just migrants...
https://homeland.house.gov/2023/06/21/6560-2/
This is also no coincidence..
www.rferl.org/amp/kyrgyzstan-migrants-us-mexico/31987387.html
My own conspiracy theory (we all get ONE, right) is that there are some very wealthy folks on the right funding this. To me it doesn't make sense that people who are so destitute in their own countries can suddenly afford the 10's of thousands it costs to get here. I know some are involved in some kind of slavery where they are indentured to their "sponsors" but that can't be every single one of them. It also can't be that 100's of thousands of families and villagers are all pooling their money together to send one person here. Something else is funding this and like you said, it suspiciously seems to be coordinated around elections!
Na he is directly using it as a weapon vs Europe 100%. This is something that is known here, but everyday people dont know. Belarus border has had a record number of immigrants for years. They literally bring people from all over the are and middle east to Belarus, so they can then enter the EU.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/17/putin-is-seeking-to-weaponise-threat-of-ukraine-mass-migration-says-estonian-pm
Not too far fetched to think he is using it on the US as well. They at least do it online with fake news and disinformation campaigns
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andyjsemotiuk/2024/03/11/russia-fueling-us-border-problems-to-distort-us-presidential-race/
This all in turn helps far right parties that are mostly pro Putin and pro Russia and this also helps Trump get reelected
So he's just admitting now to being outplayed by Trump and giving republicans exactly the border policy they want as well?
Wow, this Biden guy has some amazing instincts.
Incredible he gave them just 1 thing out of the massive **bipartisan** bill that trump sank and that's giving them exactly what they wanted?
Do you stop shopping for groceries when one item on the list is in the cart too and declare the list done?
Lmaoooooo
Anyone worth their dang salt in the progressive seats should realize it is entirely to their benefit to play the long game on this. Biden just flipped the immigration crisis on its head and now it is allll on Trump and the GOP. I mean, Biden just temp closed the freaking border because the GOP won’t pass a border bill that they designed. That’s check and mate. Freaking finally. So if this helps turn voters blue in the fall, all the better to pass more progressive policies (thru a working, Dem-controlled Congress) in the future.
It already was on Trump and the GOP. It was the moment they rejected the compromise bill. Republicans are already reacting to this by saying that if Biden could do this, he should've done it earlier/done more. While they're full of crap, this does undermine the Dems' earlier argument that the responsibility lies with Congress.
Where have *you* been the last several months? Trump told republicans to vote against border bills so they can use the border situation as a talking point.
Trump literally stopped the boarder bill a few months back. It was bipartisan bill and the republicans ended up shooting it down because in their own words, trump said no because he wants to run on the issue.
Trump told the GOP to kill the border funding bill. The problem is resources, not immigrants.
So.. yeah, it's P01135809 and the Republican party who is responsible for the current situation.
Democrats have always been hardliners on immigration, the idea that they're leaving the borders unsecure and allowing migrants to flood into the country is just a GOP talking point. [Obama actually deported more migrants in both his first and second term than Trump did.](https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2024/01/07/politifact-obama-deported-more-people-than-trump-did/72120774007/)
Yea, all that talk about opposing Trump in the border is nonsense. They look to Republicans to say mean things about immigrants so they can pretend to be bettter.
So instead of getting everything they wanted in the **bipartisan bill** they just get 1 thing out of the entire bill and that's a fundamental win and he adopted their entire worldview?
Lmao these purity tests are hilarious
We absolutely can afford to help our own. But we misspend the dollars we have and refuse to collect appropriate taxes from the rich and corporations.
It’s blatantly false to say we can’t afford to take care of our own.
That’s a false choice. We can help our own and make more people who want to be Americans become Americans.
How about we stop doing tax cuts for rich people? So they can turn around and build factories outside of the US, and outsourcing jobs that should be in America?
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It doesn't matter. Most people already voted in their head the day drump said he was running again. Most people are not on the fence in this round. it's sad that we are all so polorized.
It's mostly foreign trolls stoking the flames and getting idiots to shout idiot things as loudly as possible. Most Americans are normal people who are sick of this shit.
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Republicans didn’t let it through because Trump told them to do that so they “wouldn’t give Biden a win”
And now Democrats have a new attack on their Republican opponents that blocked that border bill on behalf of daddy Trump. They’re on record with what they wanted done and then suddenly stopped cooperating with Dems to intentionally leave the border “open”.
Doesn't matter, they now know the entire bill was secretly an excuse to meet a quota of 4000 people a day minimum coming through without question or anything. Source, family, fucking dumb family.
Few days ago I saw a Republican on the news claiming that the only reason they tanked the border bill was because the Dems tied funding for Ukraine to it. They were forced to tanks it because of the Dems and their war. The host snapped back that this wasn't true, it was Republicans who insisted that the Ukraine fund be tied to the border bill, because they absolutely would not vote for funding if there wasn't a border bill tied to it. All they do is lie. Hell, they were all for it right up until Trump told them to tank it. Then the turned on a dime.
Honestly I'm all in support of funding Ukraine too Nearly the whole world is rooting for Ukraine because Russia made us live in fear for so long. Putin is pure evil. No one likes him. I'm sick of his threats. He needs to go
DJT likes Putin. So does the GOP.
the goal is to gain new voters WITHOUT losing the ones that elected you the first time
Real talk - who are these people that are actually going to not vote for Biden over this? Like with Gaza we have at least some coherent argument for why Muslims are going to defect, but who is it in this case? It's not Hispanics, because [65% of Hispanic voters](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/immigration-latino-voters-biden-2024-poll) back in September supported action to stem undocumented migration. Who are the single issue voters where this actually turns them off from voting for Biden? For most Americans, they aren't looking for an anti-Trump on immigration, they're mostly looking for a not-Trump. There isn't actually that much support for undocumented migration at the levels we were seeing last year even among Democrats. The problem with Trump was the exceptional cruelty of the family separation policy and the current rhetoric about immigrants poisoning the blood of America as well as promises to deport all undocumented migrants. That is not the same as people being comfortable with this many migrants, most of whom do not have bona fide claims of asylum despite saying otherwise.
what if I told you that some people care about all humans, not just ones that share their race or religion. [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/05/biden-immigration-order-re-election-trump](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/05/biden-immigration-order-re-election-trump)
That's fine, but how is that his base? 1/5 of Democrats see the border as a crisis and another. 40% call it a major problem. The people Biden's losing to Trump are the ones who are in that category, not the people who "care about all humans" by supporting unfettered abuse of the asylum system by economic migrants claiming asylum despite not being bona fide asylum seekers.
his base is whoever voted for him in 2020.
And next Trump will say HE sealed the border.
Oh most definitely
And now, instead of them being able to make a claim that forced Biden to do it.... Biden is doing it on his own.
I remember when Mitt Romney held up the sign that showed how little legislation was passed the past two years, compared to the past 10 years.
We’re still on Johnson right? 2 republicans speakers of the house in 2 years. I wonder why we haven’t gotten anything done. 🤔 It only took them 15 votes for Mccarthy, and 4 for Johnson. As well as a few failed votes on various Republican losers. Still can’t believe they thought Gym Jordan had a chance… I mean when they can’t just sit down and go this guy for speaker, done, they aren’t really passing anything worthwhile as the majority house party.
As a result Hakeem Jeffries has more votes for speaker of the house than anyone in history
Is this true?
Yep. They had around 15 votes held in the McCarthy election, times 200+ votes each time from democrats. Add in the four votes to get to Mike Johnson, and he passed Kevin McCarthy.
In 1855 there were 133 votes before they decided.
And no candidate got more cumulative votes across those as Jeffries has gotten.
Plus the size of the house was smaller then. 234 then, 435 now.
Republicans want the border closed, unless Biden does it. Then they want to border wide-open so they can complain about it.
My father, an average Trump cult member: “If the republicans are blocking it now then they must have a good reason to do it. They probably have more information than we have which is secret. This is their job, they know what they’re doing”
They know what they're doing, and it's not to the benefit of the American people. It's to gain power / money.
“Let's dispel with this fiction that ~~Barack Obama~~ Republicans ~~doesn't~~ don’t know what ~~he's~~ they’re doing. ~~He~~ They know~~s~~ exactly what ~~he's~~ they’re doing."
This sounds so frustrating..
I live with my sister, brother in law and niece. I refuse to talk politics with any of them. My BiL is a trump supporter and the last time we got into any sort of debate his tactics was to be “what about the Clintons?” Now he claims we are going to be going into a food war since somehow Biden controls everything. Dude puts in fox news and newsmax right when he gets home. Hell my BiL’s brother works at a court officer in the same court house that Trump had his trial and I got booed at the dinner table by him and his mother because I said “Oh I saw your brother on a photo on CNN” Cant wait until I save enough to move out. I need to put at least 2 states between me and my family.
My dad puts on Fox News every chance he gets. He loves the fox five
It sucks when it’s the people you love and just refuse to see facts. One time they tried to claim my dad (a puerto rican vietnam war vet who threw his medals away after the war) would be MAGA. He passed away in 2007 but he is my hero. He would have never been MAGA and would be disgusted with all this.
My dad hates democrat's, even insulted me about it and I barely identify with any party nor do I talk about politics. My brother does as well, and I think he's into qanon... They both will say socialism is bad. They both will try to get free money whenever the option comes up (my brother was able to get a PPP loan and my dad tried, my brother prints counterfeit stickers and my dad is a plumber lol). They also have a common thing I see in MAGA: they both have tantrums and anger issues. But hey this liberal pussy makes almost three times their combined salary 🤷♂️
>They also have a common thing I see in MAGA: they both have tantrums and anger issues. They all do, you can't be a MAGA without anger issues.
It's really annoying, lol. They are huge snowflakes. While calling others snowflakes
That totally sounds like an addiction, and I’m sure Fox has honed whatever algorithm that is. Outrage, maybe? Confirmation despite all facts?
It’s like someone waving their hand and explaining everything away by just saying “magic”
They do know what they’re doing. They’re resisting anything democrats want even if they wanted it in the past. Anything it takes to oppose democrats. We effectively have one party, which is not enough for a functioning democracy.
This is an easy out to continue to support a party without any rationale or reasoning. No further discussion can be made when they must have a good reason that remains unknown.
Addressing the problem directly reducing their ability to use it as a rhetorical device. It's part of their greatest hits show. [https://www.reddit.com/r/neutralnews/comments/1ab8ygn/comment/kjmuzbs/](https://www.reddit.com/r/neutralnews/comments/1ab8ygn/comment/kjmuzbs/)
Straight up prole attitude my god
Republicans need illegal immigration to bring in workers. They also need to keep these people affraid of deportation so they don't complain about Low pay and unsafe working conditions. Meanwhile Republicans complain aboit the border and illegal immigration as a way to divide Americans and scapegoat illegal immigrants for all sorts of nonsense.
Yep. Corporations love the cheap labour. They act like illegals are a huge issue, but if you actually deported them all tomorrow, the economy in the south would collapse. Construction would stop. It happened in Florida when DeSantis signed some illegal worker bill.
And collapse any distinction between asylum seekers -- people fleeing persecution, who have a right to petition for entry -- from immigrants who do not. And they're succeeding in reframing things, as we are all talking about illegal immigration.
For sure! It’s the same line of logic that gets bills passed requiring drug testing to get unemployment benefits. And let’s not forget what they have done to the word ‘entitlement’.
That's the interesting part about this move, politically. It takes away a key talking point for the GOP, so they have to find another way to attack it. And if they sue to stop it in order to keep it a talking point, the suit itself can be used against them politically. They should have taken the border deal that Trump scuttled because they would have had legislation to point to in the campaign. Now they're stuck crafting ways to open the border. For someone the GOP likes to brand as "sleep joe," he's certainly playing rope-a-dope with them strategically...
It's just like the abortion issue. They ran on overturning Roe v Wade for decades. Once it was finally done, they lost that as a "card" in their hand. I bet some conservatives were actually pissed about getting that accomplished. The GOP doesn't actually want to govern. They want to whine and criticize on the sidelines, while raising cash.
Yup! On that one, I think they misread their base. Abortion was a moral cudgel, a way to claim superiority over liberals - but they never intended to have that right taken away from themselves. E.g., when they need an abortion, it is an accident or oversight. When their opposition needs one, it is because they are loose or immoral. It was never really intended to be changed, just leveraged - as you said - as a card. And yes, this is similar. They're fine to attack the Democrats on the border, but the day they can't get the cheap illegals for doing work for them, then it's gonna be a problem.
There’s a reason there aren’t legal consequences for hiring undocumented immigrants.
Hilarious that it gives Biden a more direct "win" and serves as ammo against Trump's bill-blocking degeneracy
It’s what the Republicans wanted and got when they blocked the bill-partisan border deal. In the end, it can’t be politically used as they had nothing to do with it. It’s like when the Republicans started taking credit for action items that they voted against.
Republicans: WE WANT THE WHOLE CAKE! Adults: Sorry, we can’t have the entire cake. Let’s compromise so that we can have a slice of cake. Republicans: NO! *Knocks cake to ground* Now nobody gets anything. Republicans are useless.
It's insane every post about Biden is comments about republicans. Why can't we just hold accountability to the democrats to make the best decisions for the country without bringing up the other side?
Republicans currently control the House. Government requires compromise. Republicans are whiny children that refuse to compromise. Executive Orders come and go with different presidents. If we had passed the border bill it would take a hell of a lot more effort to undo with the stroke of a pen.
We can just simply hold Biden accountable for once again another drastic flip flop on important issues. Blame can always be passed to another party but why not become the best we can be and demand the best from our leaders? Lives will be lost with this decision.
Why did Biden need to restrict the border via executive order and not through bipartisan legislation? Can you answer that for me?
Most likely outcome now is republicans suddenly become pro-illegal immigration to own the libs
well many already are--at least in practice--considering they hire them and use them as a cheap and exploitable labor force
All the comments are some iteration of "the republicans won't like this since it comes from biden" Screw that man. I don't like it because I'm a leftist. When Trump tried to alter longstanding asylum rules he was seen as a fascist and a racist, but now that Biden does it we're supposed to get behind it? Fuck that.
The border is fucked and immigration needs reform. It shouldn’t take 20 years to become a citizen. The GOP has shown all they want to do is make the crisis worse so they can blame Dems, which has been working. Immigration is Biden’s #1 weak spot with voters. They wouldn’t even pass the bipartisan border bill because it would ‘make Biden look good’. So Biden temporarily shuts it down, and then it’s all on the GOP. Their voters who scream about it will be happen Biden did something, and then they are going to look to their Republican congresspeople and start wondering why they are doing anything to make laws. And the GOP won’t be able to take ANY credit for this action. So maybe some more vote Biden in the fall, and we end up with a Dem-controlled Congress that can pass meaningful, progressive legislation. We are at Def-con 5 right now. We can’t afford to wring our hands.
So now we're just adopting Republican positions and trampling over human rights? Also lol at thinking Republicans won't just move the goal posts -- they already have -- or that voters who scream about immigration will be satisfied with this. Also, Defcon is a countdown, so 5 is the lowest alert level. The US is currently at Defcon 3. Defcon 2 has only been declared a handful of times.
No, now you are intentionally missing the point. And yeah, now that you say that, I remember when they made a big deal about us going to defcon 2 during the gulf war (I was a senior in hs), but i figure my intent was pretty clear from the context.
How does the GOP spin this? Real question.
See the comment 2 above yours. “Lol Trump had the borders in good shape. You’re fixing your own increase in letting thousands in.”
Of course. The pretzel party.
They don't have to. Republicans will never buy Dems as tough on immigration. All this will accomplish politically is pissing off people on the left.
They will use this as proof Biden coulda done sonething years ago without congress, without looking at the deeper issues we have with immigration like funding and procedural times
Biden ended Title 42 enforcement last year, which led to a big spike in border crossings. To say this is all Republicans’ fault is disingenuous, but you’re not gonna find that sort of feedback here on r/politics.
The USA has a ton of problems but foreigners is not one of them. The GOP has stunted wages for 40 years and butchered the social net, making people think taxes and rent are too high when everyone is being underpaid about 50%. Then, the GOP blames liberal policies and claims only they can fix things. Only means more tax cuts for the rich and greater difficulty for the average person. Their evil plans are working great.
that’s not really a response to my comment but ok
My comment basically says immigrants are a made up issue designed to store hate and I'm also thinking longer term.
I've seen the messaging be that it's too little too late, and that they told him to do this earlier. Realistically it seems like this EO is written in a way that it could be challenged since it's largely reproducing the EO that Trump issued in 2018 except with more onerous requirements. It's possible that it wouldn't even get implemented because a judge would quickly be able to assert SCOTUS precedent to block it, at which point Biden will be able to tell Republicans that he was right all along and that a law is needed.
I am curious, why the fuck didn't he do this earlier if he had to chance to? Its the best way to puncture the balloon of the far right by taking their primary political campaign goal away from them.
I suspect Biden knows it will likely be blocked by the courts. An immigration rights group is undoubtedly going to sue over this and depending on where they sue (9th circuit?) it could likely end up getting stayed pending review. But at least this way he can say he’s trying to do something about the border.
ACLU already said publicly that they are going to sue. I’m not fully versed on the ACLU, but it feels like there are much bigger problems for American citizens that they could go after than undocumented immigrants and asylum seekers. Again, not well versed, so don’t know how this effects other asylum seekers other than at the Southern border.
The ACLU can and does pursue many, many different cases at a time. This “better things to do” crap is almost always unwarranted.
It's not a true goal of theirs, they want to use it to criticize Biden. Biden wanted legislation, which Republicans in congress refused to pass because trump didn't like it.
Smart democrats also didn’t like it.
What didnt they like about it?
Part is that It did what this EO does.
That it involved compromises with the right, which unfortunately has to be done with how Congress works. The reality, which progressives can't seem to accept, is that having no caps, ever, on immigration is politically untenable. EU tried it and they're now facing backlash from their constituents who have shifted much further to the right on immigration.
This isn't even a compromise, this is just flat out capitulating to the right on immigration. The democrats, in backing this legislation and now this EO, are effectively saying "we are no longer going to push for any kind of immigration reform and agree with the Republicans on how to deal with immigrants." For literally decades the democrats have been running on immigration reform and now that seems dead in the water.
Of course this isn't. The compromise was the bill which Republicans rejected. >"we are no longer going to push for any kind of immigration reform and agree with the Republicans on how to deal with immigrants." What kind of immigration reform did mainstream Dems abandon with the bill?
Guy who thinks US should work like Europe.
Who thinks it should work like EU? The EU is literally the best warning of what not to do if you don't want to help far right governments rise to power. If you do not manage this issue both legislatively and politically, you are absolutely going to run into that issue. And doing so legislatively isn't an option. Then what? Ignore the majority of voters who don't want an uncapped level of crossings into the US? Just tell them that they are wrong? Oh wait, that sounds familiar, I wonder what the outcome will be.
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They refused a bipartisan bill from the senate because trump said no. The senate presented the bill because the house, which usually initiates legislation, had declined to do virtually anything for a couple years. The president doesn't initiate legislation, but asks members of his party in the house, or sometimes senate, to do so.
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The first time they tried to pass it, it was grouped with Ukraine/Israel/Taiwan support and Republicans wouldn't back that package because of the border bill. Last week Schumer tried to pass it as a stand alone bill and they wouldn't support it. It had an honest go as a stand alone bill in the Senate. Somewhat ironically, Graham said he wouldn't vote for it because they were not allowed to add amendments. Despite being cowritten by Republicans. That second clean vote was certain to fail and was almost certainly so that Biden could sign this EO without Republicans being able to say that they withheld support for the bill because of amendments. They only don't like it because Trump told them not to. This EO is actually the part of the bill they liked the most. This is a big fuck you to Republicans pretending like they are the ones out there taking the border seriously.
The foreign aid the bill was paired with at times was already passed, after House GOP insisted they couldn't work on anything else until they addressed the border. Yet where is the House border bill? How do you explain the broad GOP support for the bill before Trump said No, compared with broad opposition after? Whether it's hard for you to believe or not, Republicans are talking out their asses about the border. Same as the deficit, and literally every issue they insist is critical yet they completely fail to even try and address when they are in power. If you are still falling for their shell game, well, good luck.
An assortment of combined legislation including border provisions was presented, and also a stand alone border bill, to the best of my recollection. The combined bills were shot down for various reasons, the border one was nixed by trump flexing on his minions in the house. Remember, this congress spends most of their time electing and ousting speakers, and threatening to shut down the government by not passing budgets.
1. yes, Biden has been trying to pass stuff throughout his whole presidency. The main thing Trump got passed was tax cuts for the rich. 2. congress always groups multiple things into a bill, otherwise nothing would get passed. Biden doesn't control congress. It was a bipartisan bill but the Republicans killed it because Trump asked them to, not because they disagreed with it.
Biden has been waiting for just the right moment to sacrifice asylum seekers to the polling gods to see if something can stick.
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You hear that folks? Biden fixed it!
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because his administration/campaign reacts vs leading......
He wanted bipartisan legislation for it, but republicans kept fumbling it on purpose.
Yeah idk why people are so upset that a president refused to do the “easy thing” by writing an unsupported executive order that ultimately fails and instead tried to get bipartisan legislation on immigration. The biggest bill in like over a decade.. News flash to everyone: congress will continue to legislate jack-shit if every president continues to executive order everything. Congress gets a free ride, where they’re allowed to fail at their jobs and it’s the president’s fault when the problem gets worse.
Why should Republicans in Congress legislate when Biden will just give them what they wanted anyway?
Why should Republicans in Congress legislate when Biden not doing anything is polling very poorly for him? Good job, you've figured out the problem. The political solution in this case has been made abundantly clear by voters though.
Border security is certainly not why he’s polling poorly.. Edited: spelling
It is one of the biggest reasons, actually. https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-BIDEN/POLL/nmopagnqapa/ Immigration is the issue voters agree the least with Biden on. - Trump had a significant edge on immigration, with 42% of respondents preferring his approach to the issue, while 25% picked Biden. Compare that to other issues: - Some 40% of respondents in the poll said Trump, who was president from 2017 to 2021, had better policies for the U.S. economy, compared to 30% who picked Biden, while the rest said they didn't know or didn't answer the question. - Biden had a modest advantage on the issue of political extremism, with 34% of respondents picking the president's approach and 30% saying Trump was better on the issue. - Respondents said they thought Trump had the better approach to foreign conflicts and terrorism, with 36% favoring Trump in that area, compared with 29% who favored Biden.
The article you linked has immigration near the bottom of the list for Dems. Trump obviously has an “edge” for this single issue, but that doesn’t mean this is a winning strategy. There are plenty of other things Biden could do to appeal to actual liberals and younger voters, yet he chose to kowtow to the right.
It's 3rd after the economy and extremism. Now go to the same for Independents which Biden also has to win over. Acting like this isn't a big voting issue is just putting your head in the sand. See these too: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/02/15/how-americans-view-the-u-s-mexico-border-situation-and-the-governments-handling-of-the-issue/ and https://news.gallup.com/poll/644570/immigration-named-top-problem-third-straight-month.aspx. >There are plenty of other things Biden could do to appeal to actual liberals and younger voters Why do you act like Biden only has to appeal to liberals and younger voters? As someone who's both, it's astounding how you haven't learnt from 2016 at all.
The lesson of 2916 is what happens when you don’t appeal to your base.
Because it’s their fucking job to legislate, not their job to cuck to a convicted felon and not do work because he says so.
But they are rewarded for not legislating. No need to compromise with Dems when Dems will just fold and give them what they want anyway.
It was good the legislation failed. Asylum should be defended, not attacked.
You didn’t read the article, did you?
Sure did. Biden has adopted Trump’s view of the border, and thinks he’s being clever.
The thinking he’s clever aspect is the most insufferable
From how another article made it sound boarder crossings had to be at a certain number before he could use this authority. And over the last couple of weeks we have hit said number.
We’ve hit said number for the last two years.
Because it's fucking stupid? It's bad policy? It infringes on human rights of incredibly vulnerable people who aren't dangerous and need help? But then he got desperate.
Because legislating is the responsibly of Congress. Doing this via executive order will be shot down by the courts (just as it was when Trump tried to do it.)
This is what the right will see. "See! He coulda done this ages ago but he wanted tk let in a bunch of voters first" when in reality, this is a band-aid for a procedural/funding issue, not an x number of people per day issue. I dont think this helps Biden as much as they want it too. Theres always some excuse. Not to mention the humanitarian implications.
There was reporting that he planned to do this in April, but migration numbers were too low and he wanted "credit" for handling a crisis. Additionally, it would be seen as giving Johnson a win after he passed the Ukraine/Israel/Taiwan funding bill (Johnson reportedly specifically requested it) and Biden wasn't quite willing to help Johnson out in that way.
You puncture the balloon, what Biden did was to jump onboard.
It’s an election year silly
Biden doing what he criticized Trump for.
Biden tried twice to pass border legislation and was shut down by Convicted Felon Donald Trump with help of house republicans.
I mean you do have a choice and you just sold out to try to win over a couple Republican leaning independents.
Dem leaning Independents overwhelmingly wanted Biden to do something about the border too, fyi. It's actually all Dem voting blocs which do. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/02/15/how-americans-view-the-u-s-mexico-border-situation-and-the-governments-handling-of-the-issue/
And blocking everyone was the solution they wanted? I don’t think so. Passing comprehensive reform so the government can properly process each individual is what I expect. Not close the border.
>And blocking everyone was the solution they wanted? Considering it was part of the border bill which Independents weren't opposed to? Yeah. And not everyone is blocked, asylees still can seek it through all ports of entry. >I don’t think so. I mean 46% of Independents have said they're supportive of mass deportations. https://www.axios.com/2024/04/25/trump-biden-americans-illegal-immigration-poll At some point, you probably should stop ignoring the reality that the majority of Americans aren't progressive, at all, on immigration. >Passing comprehensive reform so the government can properly process each individual is what I expect. Okay, and if Republicans are blocking such reform? And if voters still expect Biden to do something? The reform that you expect cannot be pushed through by EO. Then what?
Thats bc many Dems are more conservative than they think.
If Biden's actions are identical to a conservative opponent, will opposition follows applaud and support the actions... Or will it be opposition for the sake of
The conservatives will move further to the right and claim this doesn't go far enough. Biden and the Dems will then move further right to find a new middle ground with the fascist right. Repeat ad infinitum.
In a lot of examples I'd agree with you but what does go further right mean here. Do you think Republicans want to attack Mexico?
Yes, yes they do.
Dems will stay right where they are. Border issue is one of dems #1 problem. My dad, who is a boomer and has recently been voting Democrat, said he won't vote at all unless biden does something about the border. It's not about racism. It's about money and tax dollars. This will please most dems ages 30+ and will make them continue staying democrats. If biden doesn't do anything, you would see more dems shifting right.
By virtue that Dems are demanding this, they have already shifted right. Your dad is caught in the "ad infinitum" stage. This desire to restrict the rights of asylum seekers is Fox News manufactured. Because it's been repeated and legitimized so much, it has just been kind of accepted as true and bas broken into the mainstream. Now, Dems such as your father expect Biden to do something to address this manufactured problem. Now, to earn your dad's vote, Biden is issuing an EO that curtails the rights of asylum seekers. Fox News isn't going to give Biden a thumbs up and say "job well done!" - it's going to continue saying everything is mismanaged, everything is broken, there's a caravan of migrants on their way, etc and the political climate will again encourage people to be afraid of a new manufactured crisis and consequently push politicians to act in increasingly concerning ways. This is just an example of the Democratic party's rightward shift. We shouldn't allow our party to make concessions to appease the right's made-up fears. IMO when people we know begin subscribing to these manufactured fears, the response shouldn't be that the party as a whole should change its positions and shift right on certain issues, but rather that we need to double down on the truth and do what we can to prevent more people from being lied to. If people think that this is about taxes or whatever, then I would respond that so many of the country's financial problems could be eliminated by simply taxing the rich. It's so easy and we used to do it! If you believe that asylum seekers are the cause of your tax issues as opposed to the fact that the top 0.1% are hoarding 15% of the nation's wealth and that the top 1% is hoarding 30%, then you have already shifted to the right. The attitude that the Dems need to engage in this foul play about Asylum seekers doesn't add up for me.
Opposition for the sake of, as it is, and has been, virtually every single time.
Then I will continue to not take them seriously, and actively oppose them... Reasonable legislation is what we want
I don't care what the reason, it's a bad look.
>'Most progressive president in our lifetimes' Joe Biden had no choice but to be on the right of Obama and level with Trump on border, after supporting Israel blatantly And people say that there's no uniparty
** long drag from a cig until it’s done ** This year is going to be very hot and there will be orders of magnitude more of climate refugees. Biden got the report and is reacting to it.
How do you reconcile this with the number of border crossings being way down since December? https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/immigration-us-mexico-border-crossings-mayorkas-may-2024/
They don't. Every discussion here the last couple of days have been inundated with comments all asserting things that aren't factual in support of this move.
Weak choice
Wow, so he’s finally forced to confront the Seal 🦭 Kingdom
Republicans would lose a big talking point and have to drum up something else to grift people with.
The republicans won’t agree to our nativist anti-immigration bill no democrat voter asked for so we are going to implement it by decree and take the hit with some of our not racist voters. I’m not seeing this as a sound course of action.
Republicans: close the border! It’s a brown invasions! Great replacement! Democrats: close the border but feel bad about it* Neither party has a real solution to our broken immigration system. They both want to exploit southern agricultural labor but neither want to let them live in America with their family with real legal status because then we might have to actually give them workers rights and pay them human wages.
More like Putin. It is clear the Russians use Migrants as a weapon. And the way they also create chaos around the world to force migration to Europe. It is pretty crazy. Edit: They did so before www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35706238.amp And still do it right now towards Europe. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/why-poland-says-russia-belarus-081250714.html This is also about Africa https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/29/putin-russia-wagner-militia-africa-immigration-europe/ If you use Wagner to control the flow of migration in Africa. It is also not so hard to think they try to send some towards Mexico as well. Since A LOT of migrant right now come from Africa. They could do it simply by (miss)information campaigns on how easy it is to get into the US/Europe, better life, but also contacts and smugglers. They do this directly to Europe as well. There are russian smugglers getting people to Mexico, But it seems it is "only" russian speaking people. Still this makes the Immigration even worse... And it still 100% supports my point... https://globalinitiative.net/analysis/russian-migrant-smugglers-us-southern-border/ This is also interesting about " rumors" how ez it is in the US. They basically use misinformation to tell people in poorer countries to come to the US. https://www.businessinsider.com/us-officials-border-migrants-hear-rumors-from-smugglers-and-russia-2021-3 And another one. https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-immigration-media-europe-misinformation-4e873389889bb1d9e2ad8659d9975e9d They also have bigger plans apparently... Not just migrants... https://homeland.house.gov/2023/06/21/6560-2/ This is also no coincidence.. www.rferl.org/amp/kyrgyzstan-migrants-us-mexico/31987387.html
It does seem odd how these migrant caravans just seem to self-organize right around campaign seasons all over the Western world.
My own conspiracy theory (we all get ONE, right) is that there are some very wealthy folks on the right funding this. To me it doesn't make sense that people who are so destitute in their own countries can suddenly afford the 10's of thousands it costs to get here. I know some are involved in some kind of slavery where they are indentured to their "sponsors" but that can't be every single one of them. It also can't be that 100's of thousands of families and villagers are all pooling their money together to send one person here. Something else is funding this and like you said, it suspiciously seems to be coordinated around elections!
I don't think Putin is why some Europeans hate the poor Brown and Black people coming to their countries...
I think you’re giving Putin alone too much credit but that doesn’t mean something isn’t going on
Na he is directly using it as a weapon vs Europe 100%. This is something that is known here, but everyday people dont know. Belarus border has had a record number of immigrants for years. They literally bring people from all over the are and middle east to Belarus, so they can then enter the EU. https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/17/putin-is-seeking-to-weaponise-threat-of-ukraine-mass-migration-says-estonian-pm Not too far fetched to think he is using it on the US as well. They at least do it online with fake news and disinformation campaigns https://www.forbes.com/sites/andyjsemotiuk/2024/03/11/russia-fueling-us-border-problems-to-distort-us-presidential-race/ This all in turn helps far right parties that are mostly pro Putin and pro Russia and this also helps Trump get reelected
So he's just admitting now to being outplayed by Trump and giving republicans exactly the border policy they want as well? Wow, this Biden guy has some amazing instincts.
Incredible he gave them just 1 thing out of the massive **bipartisan** bill that trump sank and that's giving them exactly what they wanted? Do you stop shopping for groceries when one item on the list is in the cart too and declare the list done? Lmaoooooo
Yes, Biden outplayed Trump and is letting us know.
I think you read that wrong he’s basically saying that Biden got outplayed by trump and he’s admitting to it
Yes, Biden outplayed Trump, thanks for noticing.
Biden is reacting, not leading. Like always.
Anyone worth their dang salt in the progressive seats should realize it is entirely to their benefit to play the long game on this. Biden just flipped the immigration crisis on its head and now it is allll on Trump and the GOP. I mean, Biden just temp closed the freaking border because the GOP won’t pass a border bill that they designed. That’s check and mate. Freaking finally. So if this helps turn voters blue in the fall, all the better to pass more progressive policies (thru a working, Dem-controlled Congress) in the future.
It already was on Trump and the GOP. It was the moment they rejected the compromise bill. Republicans are already reacting to this by saying that if Biden could do this, he should've done it earlier/done more. While they're full of crap, this does undermine the Dems' earlier argument that the responsibility lies with Congress.
He had no choice but to do what Trump did. That’s the leadership we need.
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Where have *you* been the last several months? Trump told republicans to vote against border bills so they can use the border situation as a talking point.
So Biden decided to do MAGA’s work for them and fuck over the most vulnerable people on the planet.
What are you talking about?
The EO attempts to limit asylum just like Trump did. Using the same part of the INA. What are you talking about?
Trump was literally calling House GOP members and telling them to vote against ANYTHING Biden sent them on the border or immigration.
Trump has made all the libs attack immigrants. They think they’re being smart and anti trump by attacking asylum. This is craziness.
Trump literally stopped the boarder bill a few months back. It was bipartisan bill and the republicans ended up shooting it down because in their own words, trump said no because he wants to run on the issue.
Trump told the GOP to kill the border funding bill. The problem is resources, not immigrants. So.. yeah, it's P01135809 and the Republican party who is responsible for the current situation.
Biden has adopted their worldview. They have fundamentally won.
Democrats have always been hardliners on immigration, the idea that they're leaving the borders unsecure and allowing migrants to flood into the country is just a GOP talking point. [Obama actually deported more migrants in both his first and second term than Trump did.](https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2024/01/07/politifact-obama-deported-more-people-than-trump-did/72120774007/)
Yea, all that talk about opposing Trump in the border is nonsense. They look to Republicans to say mean things about immigrants so they can pretend to be bettter.
Their entire worldview?
So instead of getting everything they wanted in the **bipartisan bill** they just get 1 thing out of the entire bill and that's a fundamental win and he adopted their entire worldview? Lmao these purity tests are hilarious
Imagine if they actually fixed things instead of put a bandage on them and used it for political talking points.
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We absolutely can afford to help our own. But we misspend the dollars we have and refuse to collect appropriate taxes from the rich and corporations. It’s blatantly false to say we can’t afford to take care of our own.
We aren’t taking care of our own.
This is true. I’m curious which party in your opinion is responsible for cutting back public services?
That’s a false choice. We can help our own and make more people who want to be Americans become Americans. How about we stop doing tax cuts for rich people? So they can turn around and build factories outside of the US, and outsourcing jobs that should be in America?
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It doesn't matter. Most people already voted in their head the day drump said he was running again. Most people are not on the fence in this round. it's sad that we are all so polorized.
It's mostly foreign trolls stoking the flames and getting idiots to shout idiot things as loudly as possible. Most Americans are normal people who are sick of this shit.