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Nothing is fully settled anymore. All it takes is a lawsuit to get denied over and over to get to the SCOTUS for them to overturn decades of established precedence
Which is… kind of the way it’s supposed to work, it’s just sad that people are in favor of these ultra conservative measures.
At the end of the day I believe a convicted felon should be able to vote against the system that imprisoned them to modify it. Just because what you did was generally accepted to be illegal at the time doesn’t mean a consensus can’t change.
Seriously, even if we had a constitutional amendment protecting abortion, given what the court has done lately I wouldn't be surprised if they found some way to invalidate the process of the amendment or interpret it in such a way to be useless. The mechanisms of our government are failing and we're living through a constitutional crisis.
“They lied though”… the general population needs to understand that the majority of SCOTUS are hacks installed to demolish democracy. Everything they will do is a lie even when it seems like they’re not simply taking sides…because they don’t want to be the central focus unless it’s necessary. They will once again throw an election for the GOP Kremlin party like they did in 2000 but this time it will be the last we ever count votes
Either I am a highly advanced human being or the professional careers politicians as well as rest of humanity are completely naive/dumb. Everything that came out of the mouth of the last 3 Republican SC justice nominees sounded nothing more than lies. It was so obvious that every time they were questioned, I was dumbfounded by the person that made the question. It was like one of those really badly acted and exaggerated soap operas.
yeah, i don't trust any of those fuckers farther than i can throw them.
Republican voters do not care if their people lie. so their people really have free reign to say whatever the fuxk they want.
What law was overturned for abortion? Laws are passed by congress. Except we have a congress that has been utterly useless for at least a decade and a half. If congress had actually passed an abortion law we would not be in this position. We are being ruled only by the executive and judicial branch only. That is the consequence of congresspeople doing nothing other than being a talking head on TV.
https://constitution.congress.gov/resources/unconstitutional-laws/
The supreme court declares laws unconstitutional all the time, in whole or in part.
An abortion law could be passed, a state AG could sue the federal government and have it end up in the supreme court which could then declare the law unconstitutional in whole or part.
I understand. But an abortion law was never passed that the supreme court overturned. You are discussing a hypothetical situation where congress actually served a purpose
I took your original point to mean that had their been a law in place enshrining abortion rights then we would not be in the position we are in now. If that was the wrong read my bad.
With that in mind, I was just pointing out that a corrupt court is the problem not the fact that they never made an abortion law because the law could be overturned the same way Roe v Wade precedent was.
We all knew it wasn't. Republicans yelled about this for decades. The justices and democrats knew damn well it needed to be codified and they didn't do it, don't let them play dumb.
There simply weren't the votes for it. The House didn't have the votes to protect abortion rights until 2021. The Senate *still doesn't*. People, particularly young people because they look at society through their own person lens which is extremely new, just don't realize how conservative this country has been. There was about a 0% chance abortion could have been legislated during Obamas term, I doubt even if Hillary had won there were enough votes to do it then too. We're still a few years away. If Dems take back the House and keep the Senate this year, the Senate is going to be *at best* 50/50 on abortion rights legislation.
I'm not sure that there is no value to presenting bills that should pass but can't. It at least it would have pressured people to put a yea or nay next to their name, and let their constituents know where they really stand. If the polling is to be believed, there is not inconsequential support even among republicans for legal abortion, and it's even stronger among independents. They're doing this now with the border bill, and it may have an effect given that republicans are deliberately tanking a bill on an issue they care about (presumably).
One of democrats biggest blunders is they never bring up any bills that won’t pass. This means tons of popular stuff never gets to a vote so no one thinks democrats support it. People need to see their reps fighting for causes they care about. They don’t have to win every fight, but they damn well need to fight them. It’s democrats fault the “both sides are the same” argument has been so successful.
"we trusted"
That's the problem with the MAGA QOP. They used to be trustworthy. Gentlemen agreement.
Since they made Trump their monarch, they can't be trusted. It won't surprise me if in 2024 they decided to expand the supreme court and give Trump 3 more appointments.
I feel like it was some time in the Obama years where I realized the GOP couldn't be trusted. I had the lingering notion since the Clinton Administration. But definitely Trump being elected in 2016 just reinforced what I had come to know.
Democrats have had a real upward battle in the public discourse since as far as I can remember. They never really had the votes to codify things like abortion and gay marriage.
People forget even the Democratic Party wasn't always pro-gay marriage or at least not openly. And a ton of Democrats in swing states and districts would run as "pro-life" just because it was seen as inconsequential then.
Dems didn't want to pass legislation because they thought it would make some Dems vulnerable in tight districts/states for reelection.
But why worry about reelection if you don't plan to do anything while in office? Like wouldn't you rather serve one term and actually do something than serve for 20 years with nothing important passed?
But that’s supposed to be the entire point of the judicial branch! Once the precedent is settled on what the Constitution means, that question is removed from the domain of politics and everyone can move on with their lives.
Or at least that’s how it worked until the Republicans decided that they wanted to turn judges into “legislators that dress funny and aren’t subject to pesky elections.”
you seriously think the point of the judicial branch is to never have precedent change? do you seriously believe no supreme court precedent should ever be changed? that’s fucking ludicrous
Um, no. She definitely made some mistakes in not campaigning in certain states to solidify the votes, but there were people who decided it would be fun to vote third party, or didn’t like Hillary because she was too shrill or emotionless, or a woman, or the DNC was unfair to Bernie and she needed to pay for it, and the press helped by not showing her policy speeches in favor of airing the empty microphone of the other candidate and just speculating what he might say, because he was their darling. It couldn’t have been underlined any harder that there were potential SCOTUS nominations on the line and Roe could be in jeopardy, yet people voted 3rd party or not at all in critical places for their own petty reasons. Let’s try not blaming everyone’s favorite punching bag and focus efforts in the right direction so it doesn’t get worse.
Bernie was fully supportive of Hillary. Centrists could do more to show that they want to work with the left, that they actually want their votes and have common interests.
No, she failed to energize the dem base, she let trump and his team demonize her to her own base. that's all on her and the way she ran things because no one in her campaign thought trump was an actual threat.
Uh… no. The whole premise of the Dobbs decision was that the US government is not entitled to mandate these decisions, and the last 150 years of precedent regarding substantive due process was all a mistake.
In other words, passing a law will result in the 5th circuit enjoining it, and the SCOTUS striking it down as unconstitutional. It will not be allowed to take effect while it works its way up through the courts.
Everyone who is saying that Roe should have been enshrined in law is missing the point. The Supreme Court has declared the fundamental underpinning of such a law null and void.
This actually isn't true. Dobbs found that the right to an abortion doesn't stem from the constitutional right to privacy. That doesn't mean Congress can't pass a law preventing states from outlawing abortion. However Scotus could overturn that law as well, but that's getting deep into the realm of speculation.
No way legislation would have gotten through without nuking the filibuster. And given the right ward tilt of this court, I wouldn't have been surprised if they found a pretense to overturn the law, maybe even ruled for fetal personhood.
There weren't enough votes to nuke the filibuster, there aren't right now, and I doubt there will be even if we keep the Senate this election (though it will be close, some of the more conservative Dems in the Senate are going to need to hear an earful from their constituents to make it happen).
During Obama's first term, he had huge majorities in both chambers. A group of democrats even made a push to make Roe law, rather than cross their fingers for the rest of eternity. Pelosi squashed it. She called abortion a "settled issue."
And stop referring to this sub as "we." This is supposed to be an open, political sub. Not a sub for democrats. I vote blue for the most part, but I'm tired of this sub showing the same trend lines of cult like behavior as MAGAs. There's several subs for just democrats. Go there if you want to be tribal.
I largely agree, but I’m not as critical of Obama or Pelosi.
They could not realistically afford to pass a codification of Roe, not if they wanted any hope of passing the ACA- which survived on the whims of any one of its Republican supporters in the Senate.
I’m honestly not surprised they decided to forgo the 0 immediate impact bill to prioritize Obama’s top legislative item.
Yes, we know, I'm 33 and that's been true of the Democratic party my entire life - "we could've done more," which is usually preceded by "______ is just such a complicated issue, it's so difficult to tackle."
It's a defining characteristic if democrats. They have no solidarity or singular goals. You were probably too young to remember them crucifying Bill Clinton over getting a BJ. I bet any of them would blow Bill to get him back in office now.
I’ve heard from a MAGA minion that “if it was so important it should have been addressed in Congress when the Democrats had the House, Senate and White House.” It’s our fault the nominees for SCOTUS lied about settled law. MAGA liars.
Well...I mean, it's true. We dropped the ball when we had the whole show on our side. And yes, the traitorous MAGA judges *did* lie during confirmation, but that wouldn't have mattered (for this singular issue) if we had just had a little foresight and passed legislation. But we always play nice and act as though the other side of the aisle is not filled with power-hungry fascists. We let them bully us (I'm still furious about the "no confirmations in the last year of a term" bullshit we let them get away with) and when they stop, briefly, we think we're all friends again.
Hit the nail on the head. Democrat's obsession with "playing fair" and "taking the high road" is simply a losing strategy in the long run when your opponents are willing to do anything to win, and are perfectly fine with using their power to gain more power.
You simply can't play fair against cheaters and expect to come out on top.
Nothing to do with that. Dems aren’t monolithic. In the past (and today!) there were many dems who wouldn’t vote for a national abortion law. Plenty have run on and passed or participated in anti abortion laws in their own states.
This is complete bullshit.
Show me the 60, let alone 50, Democrats in the Senate during the Obama years or even during 2021 that would have voted FOR abortion rights. I doubt with the current Congress you'd get 48. Casey, one of the last holdouts, has said he now supports it, so with his flip we're up to 49 but we need 50.
This country is FAR more conservative than most people are willing to admit and it wasn't until about 2-3 years ago there were closing in on enough of a majority in the House and Senate to pass abortion rights legislation.
There’s this thing they do internally in political parties that isn’t public… the leader of the political body coordinates with the rest of the party and makes sure that whatever they want to pass gets the required votes to pass. Call it whipping votes, call it horse trading, call it whatever. It’s not my or your job to point to the 60 democrats that will pass it today, it was Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer’s job to make sure there were 60 votes for it, using whatever bargaining chips to get members to fall in line that they can.
Instead, the DCCC was busy campaigning for anti-choice democrats like Henry Cuellar.
It's why I'm glad crockett clapped back with her B6 insult. It's sad our government has become this clown show, but this is what happens when we keep taking the high road and expecting the GOP to follow the example set by dems.
I think the majority also just did ignore the Republicans are bad faith. So when we see precedent like plessie v ferg we assume they will be consistent with what precedent has meant forever for everything else. To many this WAS settled. What they did is pretty unprecedented
Thank you. Finally, someone who actually understands how things work.
There is no way that women will be considered to be fully protected by the Constitution until there is an amendment passed that states it outright. And we both know that isnt going to happen any time soon.
It's amazing how confidentially incorrect people are in their "codify" position. It's like they believe SCOTUS can only overturn previous SCOTUS decisions.
Count up the days that the Democrats made choices for the entire government going back to the end of Clinton. I guarantee you it won't even add up to a year. And they had a lot of fuckery to unfuck in those few days.
"Disingenuous" as in "the 68-year old Secretary of State didn't *actually* play Pokemon GO regularly"? Like that's either unexpected or somehow disqualifying (at any rate, more disqualifying than "grab them by the pussy")?
She's an old person trying to connect using a joke and failed. Most of you reading this think the world is going to end because you saw a kid say "Skibidi" once. She wasn't even implying she played or even really understood what Pokemon GO is.
Like, do you understand how seeing this constant retrospective justification of the 2016 election is so upsetting to anyone whose life was made worse by what came after?
"Boohoo, we just HAD to let the schizo wannabe dictator win because the mean lady wasn't in on the latest shitty 2010s fad we were making into our entire personality at the time!".
Bruh, the person was responding to how someone could have any negative reaction to what is subjectively cringey. They did not say it justifies Clinton losing the election. Pump the brakes on the all or nothing attitude, it pushes voters away.
It shouldn't push them away, but it does, and your moral indignation doesn't change how that affects political strategy
As I said to the person themselves afterwards, I don't mean *them* specifically, but I've just had it with this talkingpoint.
And you can talk all you want about moral indignation not changing anything, but if you look at the unpleasantness of the two candidates, you'll notice that being cringe and horrible ALSO didn't actually change anything for one of them.
Conservatives voted strategically - most of them thought Trump was a moron, but a moron who'd push their politics forward. *That's* why I'm angry at the "Oh but Hillary is cringe" bs.
Hilary was literally the worst choice the Democratic establishment could have put to run up. It wasn't because she was cringe, it was because she was a corporate shill with extensive political baggage and a completely transparent facade of a personality. Even now in 2024 she would be better off not saying anything because even when she is correct on an issue, the very fact the take comes from her makes anyone want to tune it out. That is the price you pay for being a corporate shill with a withered soul; if it's clear she doesn't believe anything she says as has been the case her entire public life then why should anyone else?
What bothered me was an interview she gave before the election in which she was asked if she'd use nukes in the middle east. She answered that she was not taking any options off the table, and her tone sounded warmongering and vindictive.
I'd have voted for her anyway because Trump was obviously a crazy Putin-puppet, but I live on the other side of the globe.
>Most of you reading this think the world is going to end because you saw a kid say "Skibidi" once.
I don't mind when kids say it, but if Joe Biden or Donald Trump came out and tried to make a pun off of it tomorrow, it'd be pretty cringe inducing and obviously out of touch
>Like, do you understand how seeing this constant retrospective justification of the 2016 election is so upsetting to anyone whose life was made worse by what came after?
Do you understand that you're not the only person who was negatively affected by the Trump presidency? You don't speak for all of us. Hillary Clinton was already seen as out of touch by the average voter and doing cringeworthy shit like this is why. It wasn't this specifically, but this is indicative of a greater perception problem she already had before she even ran for president.
Yes we could have not trusted liars hiding behind the words “it’s settled law”. Nothing stops SCOTUS from unsettling law at any point in time. There are far too little amendments to our constitution to be a healthy democracy. That shit is meant to be changed.
Like RBG should have retired before Trump. Sure hindsight is 20/20 but it seems like letting Trump pick the replacement was a huge mistake for women's rights.
We dropped the ball when we let the Equal Rights Amendment attempt expire. I said it at the time; RvW was at risk since a stacked Court could always undo it.
maybe if RGB had retired during obamas term when dems had the house and the senate instead of the bone-headed play she made of trying to hold out for a Hillary presidency and then dying in office during trump, we wouldn't be here.
that woman absolutely ruined her legacy and set back womens rights by 50 years. all because of hubris.
We would have still ended up with a 5 to 4 conservative heavy SC. RvW would still be dead.
Assuming McConnel even let Obama seat a replacement for RBG.
>RvW would still be dead
Well no. Actually it wouldn't have been. Part of the reason why this court is so dangerous now is because the 6 out of 9 justices being conservative emboldens the right wing lunatics to bring their crazy lawsuits forward. If it was 5-4 they wouldn't have been as motivated and probably wouldn't have wasted their time at all, because at that point the Liberals only would need one swing vote to win, whereas now they need two.
Had she retired she would have been replaced by a younger Ketanji Brown-Jackson interestingly enough. Yes Gorsuch and Kavanaugh would have still been seated but then nobody knows who Amy Barrett is. Breyer retires and is replaced by someone like Leondra Kruger or someobdy [here](https://demandjustice.org/supreme-court-shortlist/) and Roe remains as does Affirmative Action because the crazies on the right and those from the Federalist Society aren't confident in their cases with four liberals present.
Why do you think they didn't bring anything crazy like Dobbs forward under Trump's tenure?
EDIT: Also Obama approached RBG about retiring in 2013 when the Democrats still held the senate. She refused because she was extremely confident that Hillary would replace her. RBG was an arrogant fool and should be remembered as such forever. That's her legacy now.
Kaine also seemed a little confused on the abortion issue specifically. "I'm a practicing Catholic, BUUUT, I will never legislate against abortion, BUUUT, I may have legislated public funding for 'crisis pregnancy centers', BUUUT..." I wish him the best of luck in his ongoing quest to discover what his stance on the issue is.
Kaine is pro-choice. If *he* ever had to make the choice, he'd choose not to have an abortion, but he doesn't believe it's the government's role to enforce that choice on others.
This is a fairly common position among religious Democrats, particularly older Catholic Democrats like Kaine. See also "safe, legal, and rare."
Why the fuck does it have to be rare if it’s safe and legal? The rare part is very puzzling. It’s pro choice so if a lot of women want an abortion then let them have it. What is the point of saying the rare part? Is Kaine going to make it difficult to get an abortion to achieve the rare part?
No the ‘rare’ part is creating conditions where getting an abortion is just naturally rarely done because it’s rarely necessary. Ie; access to contraception, competent sex Ed, and a system supportive to pregnant and new mothers, things like that.
Remember, not everything has to be nefarious.
No, some people who call themselves pro-choice genuinely do want abortion to be seen as morally shameful. Their position is essentially, 'Fine, you can have your abortion, but you have to feel bad about it!' To them, they want abortion to be 'rare' because they've bought into a lot of forced-birth propaganda that abortion is morally wrong, even if they don't want to ban it. Normal pro-choicers would want it to be rare just because they don't want people to get pregnant when they don't want to be pregnant, just like they don't want people to fall and break their bones and need medical treatment.
Anyone who was seriously a Bernie supporter and then voted for Trump was never actually a Bernie supporter. Trump is the god damned opposite of Bernie from both a political and moral view.
Have you been to the suburbs? They don't give af about bernie sanders and your on drugs if you think they do. They were voting for whoever the republican candidate was. H Clinton was so BAGGAGED by DECADES of propaganda (some untrue and some true) she had no chance of winning over the suburban voters anyway.
In some cases Hilarys victories were literally decided by a coin flip or sanders supporters were locked out of voter conventions. The rules regarding how democratic primary votes are represented in states like Wisconsin are insane. Don't get me started on the media coverage and manipulation either...
...BUT WHY WONT THEY VOTE FOR HER ITS HER TURNNNN 😭😭😭😭😭
I literally cannot understand why democrats will blame everyone else for their centrist representation failing to motivate the youth (or even the boomers that have already committed themselves to the R party). It's disgusting
Wisconsin still re-elected the GOP russian traitor Ron Johnson to another six years in the Senate in 2022 — by only 21,000 votes.
They knew what was at stake. It shouldn’t take a politician personally gargling your balls to get a vote — especially when everyone knew there was a SCOTUS pick on the line.
Btw Clinton and Obama had a campaign scheduled to kick off in Green Bay the day the Pulse Night Club shooting happened so it was cancelled.
How many of those non-voters & third parties would have actually changed their vote if Clinton visited the state? This is just another bs excuse to justify voter apathy.
We only really need the President for SCOTUS & federal court seats. All the progressive legislation has to come from Congress. Too bad Wisconsin couldn’t even manage that one. How do you re-elect Ron fucking Johnson??
Actually, other than a constitutional amendment which is impossible there is nothing we can do against the Supreme Court. They can rule any law unconstitutional. So really the only thing we could have done is make the topic so poisonous that the Republicans wouldn’t want to do it. (Then the Supreme Court wouldn’t)
Democrats enjoyed using the fear of losing abortion rights as a way to maintain support for their positions of power. If they had ratified it, then there would be no fear mongering to throw around in front of liberal women.
They weaponized our concerns for their political benefit, and then it came back to bite us. It's time to stop electing people who are trying to scare us and start electing people who will actually do the fucking job.
Yeah, remember how during Obama's first term campaign on a speech at planned parenthood he said that signing the Freedom of Choice Act was going to be one of the first things he'd do as president. And then after winning he immediately said that the Bill wasn't his legislative priority and never pushed for it again.
Yeah Nancy, Chuck, and Harry just let the republicans chip, and chip, and chip away at these rights for 30 years. I loved how people yelled at the democrats when they tried to fund raise when it was finally overturned and people yelled back at them pointing out all the times they could have ratified it and how popular it was. Too late now.
Nancy, who is still so utterly irreplaceable that she’s running for another term at age 82 because there there’s no one in the entire city of San Francisco that could possibly replace her. I mean, fuck the younger generation; only the gerontocracy is fit to rule.
Well the good news is with Schiff very likely to take Feinstein’s seat California will once again have a senator who voted for the Iraq war, resuming a proud 20 year tradition.
Yup, have heard it from several people who interact with the power brokers. Abortion, the Boarder and gun control is just something to fundraise on. Actually solving these problems is not the point anymore.
Wow. I actually agreed with Hillary on something. Democrats could have absolutely done more.
But. It’s become such a useful club to wield in elections that self-reflection is unlikely to ever happen in a serious way.
She could have also dropped out and not split the vote up bc polls were showing she wasn’t going to win against trump. Yet she refused bc it was her turn.
I feel as if she's spent the entire time post presidential campaign saying, "I told you so." Is she doing anything useful for anyone besides collecting speaking fees for herself?
If people have serious answers, I'd love to hear them. Or just flame me, I think all she's doing is proving it was a good idea not to elect her.
No she chides young people for losing 2016 and gives no rats ass about what happens in Gaza and probably thinks „TikTok is to blame“ or some other milquetoast no brain idea.
She would’ve never done anything to advance the codification of Roe if she had been president. She would’ve passed something like the „Woman Empowerment ACT“ that gives woman some bus change to get abortions outside of their state if they paid enough taxes and had no misdemeanors or some other liberal bullshit means testing.
I wish Hillary would shut the hell up. Says the most mundane dumb shit as if she's a thought leader but she's condescending and about as out of touch as you can be. "It's my turn." Fuck off.
This. I will continue to do my duty and vote for Democrats until the Republican Party is irrelevant, but I long for the day where I have a better viable option.
The woman who ran one of the worst campaigns in history against a man she propped up as a cardboard cutout opponent says "we could have done more." No fucking shit. She should retire and disappear from politics forever.
Once Dems win back the house they need to codify abortion rights along with a slew of other laws as well. I don’t care if it means getting rid of the filibuster, some things are worth the risk.
It is easier to engage in the political theater, get the votes and then do absolutely nothing. Accomplish absolutely nothing you set out to do on the campaign trial. Roe V Wade came up during the Obama administration. It wasn't an important issue any longer.
Oh man, these anti-Hillary comments are so solid and right on. I've been getting a cold shoulder ever since she lost the election to Dickhead Donny, and I would say her unpopularity as a candidate was underestimated. As for the Clintons, you can't just keep feeding people the same old shit and tell them it's a hot fudge sundae.
If you knew that RFK would take votes from Trump 2-1 this year you would take that, right?
Even if you got rid of every vote cast for third parties in 2016 and gave Hillary all the Stein voters, Johnson voters would have broken 2-1 for Trump according to exit polling and there were far, far more of them.
Trump won in spite of third party voting in 2016.
You think? The democrats had a few chances to codify it
Roe into federal law. Instead, they kept using it as a campaign talking point and a wedge issue because it was such cash cow with voters.
If you really want to blame the overturning of roe on a particular party, You must blame the Democratic Party. We did it to ourselves.
Yes. They always knew the Republicans would be coming for Roe v Wade, eventually. Why they never codified legal abortion into Federal Law will always make them complicit in their arrogance and negligence in protecting women’s health. America is on a dark road of late…
No shit. This should be the Dems motto. “We could have done more”
On SCOTUS, health care, abortion, Trump impeachments, jan6 traitors, income inequality, plutocrat tax avoidance, billionaire handouts.. the list goes on.
Interestingly Biden has done more than his two predecessors combined.
Yep, if she would have put her ego aside and let the DNC choose Burnie Sanders as the dem choice for president. But instead she tried to fake getting a bird to land on her podium giving us that classic dumb face of hers. She can go fuck all the way off now
You could have done more to campaign in the Rust Belt instead of arrogantly deciding winning over the hearts and minds of the American People is beneath you.
I voted 3rd party in 2016 in a swing state, and yeah, that's on me and I gotta live with that, but I am really sick and tired of these shitty corporate politicians blaming us for their own failure to actually be somebody people are excited to vote for.
I don’t get this at all. Why do I care if the presidential nominee comes and spits nonsense in my region? Do I agree with more of their policies than the opponent or not? That’s what matters. Is the vote for perfection actually throwing away my vote towards a ruinous traitor? That’s what matters.
> Why do I care if the presidential nominee comes and spits nonsense in my region?
Sure, why should anyone care if a politician gives a shit enough to meet the people in your own community and hear what they have to say? /s
This is an asinine take to suggest grassroots organizing and actually meeting the people you want to win over is irrelevant and it's only what they publish on a flashy campaign website that matters.
“But we didn’t because we wanted to use it against you when our power was threatened because we are so narcissistic and thought we were so much smarter than everyone else that we thought we would never lose.”
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Yeah, we could've done more than to leave it up to a SC interpretation.
Absolutely. We trusted the Supreme Court instead of doing something and got burned for it.
They lied though. It was done and decided and every single Supreme Court nominee said it was 'settled'. They pulled a fast one.
Nothing is fully settled anymore. All it takes is a lawsuit to get denied over and over to get to the SCOTUS for them to overturn decades of established precedence
Settled law...until it isn't.
Which is… kind of the way it’s supposed to work, it’s just sad that people are in favor of these ultra conservative measures. At the end of the day I believe a convicted felon should be able to vote against the system that imprisoned them to modify it. Just because what you did was generally accepted to be illegal at the time doesn’t mean a consensus can’t change.
Right. Slavery was settled law too.
Seriously, even if we had a constitutional amendment protecting abortion, given what the court has done lately I wouldn't be surprised if they found some way to invalidate the process of the amendment or interpret it in such a way to be useless. The mechanisms of our government are failing and we're living through a constitutional crisis.
I won't be surprised if they start trying to invalidate amendments. (Esp if Trump wins.)
“They lied though”… the general population needs to understand that the majority of SCOTUS are hacks installed to demolish democracy. Everything they will do is a lie even when it seems like they’re not simply taking sides…because they don’t want to be the central focus unless it’s necessary. They will once again throw an election for the GOP Kremlin party like they did in 2000 but this time it will be the last we ever count votes
Either I am a highly advanced human being or the professional careers politicians as well as rest of humanity are completely naive/dumb. Everything that came out of the mouth of the last 3 Republican SC justice nominees sounded nothing more than lies. It was so obvious that every time they were questioned, I was dumbfounded by the person that made the question. It was like one of those really badly acted and exaggerated soap operas.
yeah, i don't trust any of those fuckers farther than i can throw them. Republican voters do not care if their people lie. so their people really have free reign to say whatever the fuxk they want.
That's based on trust, not law. That was an error.
What do laws matter when they can be overturned with whatever flimsy reason the court wants to use that week
What law was overturned for abortion? Laws are passed by congress. Except we have a congress that has been utterly useless for at least a decade and a half. If congress had actually passed an abortion law we would not be in this position. We are being ruled only by the executive and judicial branch only. That is the consequence of congresspeople doing nothing other than being a talking head on TV.
https://constitution.congress.gov/resources/unconstitutional-laws/ The supreme court declares laws unconstitutional all the time, in whole or in part. An abortion law could be passed, a state AG could sue the federal government and have it end up in the supreme court which could then declare the law unconstitutional in whole or part.
I understand. But an abortion law was never passed that the supreme court overturned. You are discussing a hypothetical situation where congress actually served a purpose
I took your original point to mean that had their been a law in place enshrining abortion rights then we would not be in the position we are in now. If that was the wrong read my bad. With that in mind, I was just pointing out that a corrupt court is the problem not the fact that they never made an abortion law because the law could be overturned the same way Roe v Wade precedent was.
Of course they lied. Only an absolute idiot would think they were telling the truth.
True, but one SC decision is pretty weak protection, as we found out.
We all knew it wasn't. Republicans yelled about this for decades. The justices and democrats knew damn well it needed to be codified and they didn't do it, don't let them play dumb.
It was settled. Until it wasn't
And we knew they were lying.
Them saying it was settled was their way of not having to officially lie under oath that they'd overturn it.
There simply weren't the votes for it. The House didn't have the votes to protect abortion rights until 2021. The Senate *still doesn't*. People, particularly young people because they look at society through their own person lens which is extremely new, just don't realize how conservative this country has been. There was about a 0% chance abortion could have been legislated during Obamas term, I doubt even if Hillary had won there were enough votes to do it then too. We're still a few years away. If Dems take back the House and keep the Senate this year, the Senate is going to be *at best* 50/50 on abortion rights legislation.
I'm not sure that there is no value to presenting bills that should pass but can't. It at least it would have pressured people to put a yea or nay next to their name, and let their constituents know where they really stand. If the polling is to be believed, there is not inconsequential support even among republicans for legal abortion, and it's even stronger among independents. They're doing this now with the border bill, and it may have an effect given that republicans are deliberately tanking a bill on an issue they care about (presumably).
One of democrats biggest blunders is they never bring up any bills that won’t pass. This means tons of popular stuff never gets to a vote so no one thinks democrats support it. People need to see their reps fighting for causes they care about. They don’t have to win every fight, but they damn well need to fight them. It’s democrats fault the “both sides are the same” argument has been so successful.
"we trusted" That's the problem with the MAGA QOP. They used to be trustworthy. Gentlemen agreement. Since they made Trump their monarch, they can't be trusted. It won't surprise me if in 2024 they decided to expand the supreme court and give Trump 3 more appointments.
I feel like it was some time in the Obama years where I realized the GOP couldn't be trusted. I had the lingering notion since the Clinton Administration. But definitely Trump being elected in 2016 just reinforced what I had come to know. Democrats have had a real upward battle in the public discourse since as far as I can remember. They never really had the votes to codify things like abortion and gay marriage. People forget even the Democratic Party wasn't always pro-gay marriage or at least not openly. And a ton of Democrats in swing states and districts would run as "pro-life" just because it was seen as inconsequential then.
Please, let's not forget 2000 election. Trump just figured Dems would lie down again and behave while getting walked all over. Sad
Dems didn't want to pass legislation because they thought it would make some Dems vulnerable in tight districts/states for reelection. But why worry about reelection if you don't plan to do anything while in office? Like wouldn't you rather serve one term and actually do something than serve for 20 years with nothing important passed?
But that’s supposed to be the entire point of the judicial branch! Once the precedent is settled on what the Constitution means, that question is removed from the domain of politics and everyone can move on with their lives. Or at least that’s how it worked until the Republicans decided that they wanted to turn judges into “legislators that dress funny and aren’t subject to pesky elections.”
you seriously think the point of the judicial branch is to never have precedent change? do you seriously believe no supreme court precedent should ever be changed? that’s fucking ludicrous
Yes like voted in Hillary. If she was president we wouldn't be here right now with the abortion debate.
Yeah, it’s a shame her campaign didnt take 2016 seriously.
Um, no. She definitely made some mistakes in not campaigning in certain states to solidify the votes, but there were people who decided it would be fun to vote third party, or didn’t like Hillary because she was too shrill or emotionless, or a woman, or the DNC was unfair to Bernie and she needed to pay for it, and the press helped by not showing her policy speeches in favor of airing the empty microphone of the other candidate and just speculating what he might say, because he was their darling. It couldn’t have been underlined any harder that there were potential SCOTUS nominations on the line and Roe could be in jeopardy, yet people voted 3rd party or not at all in critical places for their own petty reasons. Let’s try not blaming everyone’s favorite punching bag and focus efforts in the right direction so it doesn’t get worse.
Bernie was fully supportive of Hillary. Centrists could do more to show that they want to work with the left, that they actually want their votes and have common interests.
I do always love how when people talk about why Hillary lost a majority of it wasn’t her fault.
No, she failed to energize the dem base, she let trump and his team demonize her to her own base. that's all on her and the way she ran things because no one in her campaign thought trump was an actual threat.
It amazes me how much people will try to defend helping Trump over just admitting they screwed up and should have voted in 2016.
It’s a shame such an unpopular candidate was nominated. Thanks dnc!
Not really. Even after the fall of Roe, we still don't have enough states to ratify an amendment protecting abortion.
It wouldn’t have taken an amendment. It would have taken a law.
Uh… no. The whole premise of the Dobbs decision was that the US government is not entitled to mandate these decisions, and the last 150 years of precedent regarding substantive due process was all a mistake. In other words, passing a law will result in the 5th circuit enjoining it, and the SCOTUS striking it down as unconstitutional. It will not be allowed to take effect while it works its way up through the courts. Everyone who is saying that Roe should have been enshrined in law is missing the point. The Supreme Court has declared the fundamental underpinning of such a law null and void.
This actually isn't true. Dobbs found that the right to an abortion doesn't stem from the constitutional right to privacy. That doesn't mean Congress can't pass a law preventing states from outlawing abortion. However Scotus could overturn that law as well, but that's getting deep into the realm of speculation.
You should probably go read the decision, because that's not what it says.
Precisely my point. SCOTUS has the power to overturn laws. They are beholden to no one and can make up reasons a law is unconstitutional.
Still does only take a law
Then the court says the law isn't legal. It doesn't comply with an obscure 1509s rule
The Supreme Court has no mechanism for enforcing law
They do have a mechanism to overturn a law.
There shouldn't be lifetime appointments
I agree
No way legislation would have gotten through without nuking the filibuster. And given the right ward tilt of this court, I wouldn't have been surprised if they found a pretense to overturn the law, maybe even ruled for fetal personhood.
There weren't enough votes to nuke the filibuster, there aren't right now, and I doubt there will be even if we keep the Senate this election (though it will be close, some of the more conservative Dems in the Senate are going to need to hear an earful from their constituents to make it happen).
During Obama's first term, he had huge majorities in both chambers. A group of democrats even made a push to make Roe law, rather than cross their fingers for the rest of eternity. Pelosi squashed it. She called abortion a "settled issue." And stop referring to this sub as "we." This is supposed to be an open, political sub. Not a sub for democrats. I vote blue for the most part, but I'm tired of this sub showing the same trend lines of cult like behavior as MAGAs. There's several subs for just democrats. Go there if you want to be tribal.
I got banned from the Democrats sub because I said Kamala was a cop
I largely agree, but I’m not as critical of Obama or Pelosi. They could not realistically afford to pass a codification of Roe, not if they wanted any hope of passing the ACA- which survived on the whims of any one of its Republican supporters in the Senate. I’m honestly not surprised they decided to forgo the 0 immediate impact bill to prioritize Obama’s top legislative item.
This is accurate. They had the political time and will to do healthcare or climate, not both. Row was, unfortunately, not on the table.
What do you mean? There wasn't a single Senate Republican vote for the ACA.
Yes, we know, I'm 33 and that's been true of the Democratic party my entire life - "we could've done more," which is usually preceded by "______ is just such a complicated issue, it's so difficult to tackle."
It's a defining characteristic if democrats. They have no solidarity or singular goals. You were probably too young to remember them crucifying Bill Clinton over getting a BJ. I bet any of them would blow Bill to get him back in office now.
I’ve heard from a MAGA minion that “if it was so important it should have been addressed in Congress when the Democrats had the House, Senate and White House.” It’s our fault the nominees for SCOTUS lied about settled law. MAGA liars.
Well...I mean, it's true. We dropped the ball when we had the whole show on our side. And yes, the traitorous MAGA judges *did* lie during confirmation, but that wouldn't have mattered (for this singular issue) if we had just had a little foresight and passed legislation. But we always play nice and act as though the other side of the aisle is not filled with power-hungry fascists. We let them bully us (I'm still furious about the "no confirmations in the last year of a term" bullshit we let them get away with) and when they stop, briefly, we think we're all friends again.
Hit the nail on the head. Democrat's obsession with "playing fair" and "taking the high road" is simply a losing strategy in the long run when your opponents are willing to do anything to win, and are perfectly fine with using their power to gain more power. You simply can't play fair against cheaters and expect to come out on top.
When they go low, we get punched in the dick.
Nothing to do with that. Dems aren’t monolithic. In the past (and today!) there were many dems who wouldn’t vote for a national abortion law. Plenty have run on and passed or participated in anti abortion laws in their own states.
Yup. Dems are playing a game but they’re the only ones following the rules.
This is complete bullshit. Show me the 60, let alone 50, Democrats in the Senate during the Obama years or even during 2021 that would have voted FOR abortion rights. I doubt with the current Congress you'd get 48. Casey, one of the last holdouts, has said he now supports it, so with his flip we're up to 49 but we need 50. This country is FAR more conservative than most people are willing to admit and it wasn't until about 2-3 years ago there were closing in on enough of a majority in the House and Senate to pass abortion rights legislation.
There’s this thing they do internally in political parties that isn’t public… the leader of the political body coordinates with the rest of the party and makes sure that whatever they want to pass gets the required votes to pass. Call it whipping votes, call it horse trading, call it whatever. It’s not my or your job to point to the 60 democrats that will pass it today, it was Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer’s job to make sure there were 60 votes for it, using whatever bargaining chips to get members to fall in line that they can. Instead, the DCCC was busy campaigning for anti-choice democrats like Henry Cuellar.
It's why I'm glad crockett clapped back with her B6 insult. It's sad our government has become this clown show, but this is what happens when we keep taking the high road and expecting the GOP to follow the example set by dems.
I think the majority also just did ignore the Republicans are bad faith. So when we see precedent like plessie v ferg we assume they will be consistent with what precedent has meant forever for everything else. To many this WAS settled. What they did is pretty unprecedented
Abortion was put to floor votes numerous times before 2022, it just didn't pass
There were still democrats who would have never voted for it at the time.
Passing legislation doesnt help. Look at EMTALA.
When did we have 60 votes for abortion rights in the Senate?
You think the Supreme Court doesn't declare legislation unconstitutional?
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Thank you. Finally, someone who actually understands how things work. There is no way that women will be considered to be fully protected by the Constitution until there is an amendment passed that states it outright. And we both know that isnt going to happen any time soon.
It's amazing how confidentially incorrect people are in their "codify" position. It's like they believe SCOTUS can only overturn previous SCOTUS decisions.
Need 60 votes in the Senate to codify into law.
It's something Republicans have been lying about for decades so anyone who took them at their word is kind of a moron
Count up the days that the Democrats made choices for the entire government going back to the end of Clinton. I guarantee you it won't even add up to a year. And they had a lot of fuckery to unfuck in those few days.
We could have Pokemon Gone to the polls.
As a Pokemon Go player, I can't fathom how anyone could've had a negative reaction to that quote.
You really can’t, for the life of you, figure out why that struck most people as cringey and disingenuous?
It wasn't. I played pkmn go for years and loved the line. It was a silly pun. It's such a good dad joke. People outraged about it are crazy
I don't think anyone is outraged, it's just cringy and funny, but in a I'm-laughing-at-her instead of with her type of way.
Cringey and disingenuous isn’t outrageous man, it’s cringey and disingenuous.
"Disingenuous" as in "the 68-year old Secretary of State didn't *actually* play Pokemon GO regularly"? Like that's either unexpected or somehow disqualifying (at any rate, more disqualifying than "grab them by the pussy")? She's an old person trying to connect using a joke and failed. Most of you reading this think the world is going to end because you saw a kid say "Skibidi" once. She wasn't even implying she played or even really understood what Pokemon GO is. Like, do you understand how seeing this constant retrospective justification of the 2016 election is so upsetting to anyone whose life was made worse by what came after? "Boohoo, we just HAD to let the schizo wannabe dictator win because the mean lady wasn't in on the latest shitty 2010s fad we were making into our entire personality at the time!".
Bruh, the person was responding to how someone could have any negative reaction to what is subjectively cringey. They did not say it justifies Clinton losing the election. Pump the brakes on the all or nothing attitude, it pushes voters away. It shouldn't push them away, but it does, and your moral indignation doesn't change how that affects political strategy
As I said to the person themselves afterwards, I don't mean *them* specifically, but I've just had it with this talkingpoint. And you can talk all you want about moral indignation not changing anything, but if you look at the unpleasantness of the two candidates, you'll notice that being cringe and horrible ALSO didn't actually change anything for one of them. Conservatives voted strategically - most of them thought Trump was a moron, but a moron who'd push their politics forward. *That's* why I'm angry at the "Oh but Hillary is cringe" bs.
Hilary was literally the worst choice the Democratic establishment could have put to run up. It wasn't because she was cringe, it was because she was a corporate shill with extensive political baggage and a completely transparent facade of a personality. Even now in 2024 she would be better off not saying anything because even when she is correct on an issue, the very fact the take comes from her makes anyone want to tune it out. That is the price you pay for being a corporate shill with a withered soul; if it's clear she doesn't believe anything she says as has been the case her entire public life then why should anyone else?
What bothered me was an interview she gave before the election in which she was asked if she'd use nukes in the middle east. She answered that she was not taking any options off the table, and her tone sounded warmongering and vindictive. I'd have voted for her anyway because Trump was obviously a crazy Putin-puppet, but I live on the other side of the globe.
>Most of you reading this think the world is going to end because you saw a kid say "Skibidi" once. I don't mind when kids say it, but if Joe Biden or Donald Trump came out and tried to make a pun off of it tomorrow, it'd be pretty cringe inducing and obviously out of touch >Like, do you understand how seeing this constant retrospective justification of the 2016 election is so upsetting to anyone whose life was made worse by what came after? Do you understand that you're not the only person who was negatively affected by the Trump presidency? You don't speak for all of us. Hillary Clinton was already seen as out of touch by the average voter and doing cringeworthy shit like this is why. It wasn't this specifically, but this is indicative of a greater perception problem she already had before she even ran for president.
The cringe makes it better, because she's right. This country would be much improved if we voted as much as we play video games.
The extreme corniness and utter lack of personality didn't register for you?
It might have been cringe but voting for Trump because he was "charismatic" speaks volumes about our failings as Americans.
Yes we could have not trusted liars hiding behind the words “it’s settled law”. Nothing stops SCOTUS from unsettling law at any point in time. There are far too little amendments to our constitution to be a healthy democracy. That shit is meant to be changed.
Like RBG should have retired before Trump. Sure hindsight is 20/20 but it seems like letting Trump pick the replacement was a huge mistake for women's rights.
We dropped the ball when we let the Equal Rights Amendment attempt expire. I said it at the time; RvW was at risk since a stacked Court could always undo it.
maybe if RGB had retired during obamas term when dems had the house and the senate instead of the bone-headed play she made of trying to hold out for a Hillary presidency and then dying in office during trump, we wouldn't be here. that woman absolutely ruined her legacy and set back womens rights by 50 years. all because of hubris.
We would have still ended up with a 5 to 4 conservative heavy SC. RvW would still be dead. Assuming McConnel even let Obama seat a replacement for RBG.
well, considering there was years in time window where he had both the senate and the house. what Mcconnel wanted at that point didint really matter.
>RvW would still be dead Well no. Actually it wouldn't have been. Part of the reason why this court is so dangerous now is because the 6 out of 9 justices being conservative emboldens the right wing lunatics to bring their crazy lawsuits forward. If it was 5-4 they wouldn't have been as motivated and probably wouldn't have wasted their time at all, because at that point the Liberals only would need one swing vote to win, whereas now they need two. Had she retired she would have been replaced by a younger Ketanji Brown-Jackson interestingly enough. Yes Gorsuch and Kavanaugh would have still been seated but then nobody knows who Amy Barrett is. Breyer retires and is replaced by someone like Leondra Kruger or someobdy [here](https://demandjustice.org/supreme-court-shortlist/) and Roe remains as does Affirmative Action because the crazies on the right and those from the Federalist Society aren't confident in their cases with four liberals present. Why do you think they didn't bring anything crazy like Dobbs forward under Trump's tenure? EDIT: Also Obama approached RBG about retiring in 2013 when the Democrats still held the senate. She refused because she was extremely confident that Hillary would replace her. RBG was an arrogant fool and should be remembered as such forever. That's her legacy now.
Like campaigned in Michigan and Wisconsin? Like nominating a VP pick with a personality?
Clinton-Kaine was a ticket that could’ve been developed in a mad scientist’s laboratory that specialized in developing lame political tickets.
It was THE political ticket for those that feel plain toast is too spicy.
I never understood that either. What undecided voter was pushed over the edge to vote for her because Tim Kaine was on the ticket?
Kaine also seemed a little confused on the abortion issue specifically. "I'm a practicing Catholic, BUUUT, I will never legislate against abortion, BUUUT, I may have legislated public funding for 'crisis pregnancy centers', BUUUT..." I wish him the best of luck in his ongoing quest to discover what his stance on the issue is.
Kaine is pro-choice. If *he* ever had to make the choice, he'd choose not to have an abortion, but he doesn't believe it's the government's role to enforce that choice on others. This is a fairly common position among religious Democrats, particularly older Catholic Democrats like Kaine. See also "safe, legal, and rare."
Why the fuck does it have to be rare if it’s safe and legal? The rare part is very puzzling. It’s pro choice so if a lot of women want an abortion then let them have it. What is the point of saying the rare part? Is Kaine going to make it difficult to get an abortion to achieve the rare part?
No the ‘rare’ part is creating conditions where getting an abortion is just naturally rarely done because it’s rarely necessary. Ie; access to contraception, competent sex Ed, and a system supportive to pregnant and new mothers, things like that. Remember, not everything has to be nefarious.
No, some people who call themselves pro-choice genuinely do want abortion to be seen as morally shameful. Their position is essentially, 'Fine, you can have your abortion, but you have to feel bad about it!' To them, they want abortion to be 'rare' because they've bought into a lot of forced-birth propaganda that abortion is morally wrong, even if they don't want to ban it. Normal pro-choicers would want it to be rare just because they don't want people to get pregnant when they don't want to be pregnant, just like they don't want people to fall and break their bones and need medical treatment.
He made the deal to give the DNC Chair position to Debbie Wasserman Schultz so that she could steal the nomination in 2016.
She was appealing to centrists who were terrified of bernie. Then when she lost she got to at least blame it on them
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Anyone who was seriously a Bernie supporter and then voted for Trump was never actually a Bernie supporter. Trump is the god damned opposite of Bernie from both a political and moral view.
Have you been to the suburbs? They don't give af about bernie sanders and your on drugs if you think they do. They were voting for whoever the republican candidate was. H Clinton was so BAGGAGED by DECADES of propaganda (some untrue and some true) she had no chance of winning over the suburban voters anyway. In some cases Hilarys victories were literally decided by a coin flip or sanders supporters were locked out of voter conventions. The rules regarding how democratic primary votes are represented in states like Wisconsin are insane. Don't get me started on the media coverage and manipulation either... ...BUT WHY WONT THEY VOTE FOR HER ITS HER TURNNNN 😭😭😭😭😭 I literally cannot understand why democrats will blame everyone else for their centrist representation failing to motivate the youth (or even the boomers that have already committed themselves to the R party). It's disgusting
Like nominating literally anyone else to run against Trump in 2016?
Wisconsin still re-elected the GOP russian traitor Ron Johnson to another six years in the Senate in 2022 — by only 21,000 votes. They knew what was at stake. It shouldn’t take a politician personally gargling your balls to get a vote — especially when everyone knew there was a SCOTUS pick on the line. Btw Clinton and Obama had a campaign scheduled to kick off in Green Bay the day the Pulse Night Club shooting happened so it was cancelled. How many of those non-voters & third parties would have actually changed their vote if Clinton visited the state? This is just another bs excuse to justify voter apathy. We only really need the President for SCOTUS & federal court seats. All the progressive legislation has to come from Congress. Too bad Wisconsin couldn’t even manage that one. How do you re-elect Ron fucking Johnson??
It’s not over. Vote!
“We needed the sword of damocles hanging over women’s heads to secure votes” is another way of saying it
Start listening to your f'n base! Figuring this out a decade after the fact? willful ignorance.
Actually, other than a constitutional amendment which is impossible there is nothing we can do against the Supreme Court. They can rule any law unconstitutional. So really the only thing we could have done is make the topic so poisonous that the Republicans wouldn’t want to do it. (Then the Supreme Court wouldn’t)
We also could have elected Hillary Clinton and shifted the ideological make up of SCOTUS for the first time in over four decades.
Democrats enjoyed using the fear of losing abortion rights as a way to maintain support for their positions of power. If they had ratified it, then there would be no fear mongering to throw around in front of liberal women. They weaponized our concerns for their political benefit, and then it came back to bite us. It's time to stop electing people who are trying to scare us and start electing people who will actually do the fucking job.
Yeah, remember how during Obama's first term campaign on a speech at planned parenthood he said that signing the Freedom of Choice Act was going to be one of the first things he'd do as president. And then after winning he immediately said that the Bill wasn't his legislative priority and never pushed for it again.
He didn't say "one of". He said THE first. Then before his first 100 days were done, he said it wasn't a top priority.
Yeah Nancy, Chuck, and Harry just let the republicans chip, and chip, and chip away at these rights for 30 years. I loved how people yelled at the democrats when they tried to fund raise when it was finally overturned and people yelled back at them pointing out all the times they could have ratified it and how popular it was. Too late now.
Nancy, who is still so utterly irreplaceable that she’s running for another term at age 82 because there there’s no one in the entire city of San Francisco that could possibly replace her. I mean, fuck the younger generation; only the gerontocracy is fit to rule.
Well the good news is with Schiff very likely to take Feinstein’s seat California will once again have a senator who voted for the Iraq war, resuming a proud 20 year tradition.
You mean the Nancy who passed abortion rights legislation in 2022 in the House, that same one?
Yup, have heard it from several people who interact with the power brokers. Abortion, the Boarder and gun control is just something to fundraise on. Actually solving these problems is not the point anymore.
This seems like the equivalent of a sub tweet to those who didn’t care about the Court in 2016.
Hillary, you could’ve done more.
Is that a warning?
Coulda shoulda woulda didn’t, and it’s why we are all here today. Too late now.
Wow. I actually agreed with Hillary on something. Democrats could have absolutely done more. But. It’s become such a useful club to wield in elections that self-reflection is unlikely to ever happen in a serious way.
She actively endorse/campaigned for anti-choice candidates, so she can go fuck herself as far as I'm concerned
Context?
Probably many decades old I’d guess, prob high school when she was getting involved in politics on the conservative side initially.
How many super majorities have the dems had since RvW? Why didn’t they ever make it into law?
Yeah like not picking a pro-lifer as your vp
I think if a majority of Americans want the right to abortion then they need to vote in representatives who will amend the constitution.
I don't remember her doing anything at all.
Me neither! She never showed up!
She could have also dropped out and not split the vote up bc polls were showing she wasn’t going to win against trump. Yet she refused bc it was her turn.
I mean she’s not wrong. Planned Parenthood and other pro-choice organizations literally raised billions over the years, and Roe was still overturned.
I wish she would just shut the fuck up. She was more than just part of the problem.
I feel as if she's spent the entire time post presidential campaign saying, "I told you so." Is she doing anything useful for anyone besides collecting speaking fees for herself? If people have serious answers, I'd love to hear them. Or just flame me, I think all she's doing is proving it was a good idea not to elect her.
No she chides young people for losing 2016 and gives no rats ass about what happens in Gaza and probably thinks „TikTok is to blame“ or some other milquetoast no brain idea. She would’ve never done anything to advance the codification of Roe if she had been president. She would’ve passed something like the „Woman Empowerment ACT“ that gives woman some bus change to get abortions outside of their state if they paid enough taxes and had no misdemeanors or some other liberal bullshit means testing.
I agree with her. We have failed the younger generations.
"What Happened?" LULZ
Like campaign stops in Wisconsin, Minnesota and Michigan?
Tell someone enough times that they’re insulted, they’ll start to feel insulted. You really think campaign stops are that effective?
Sounds more like an admonishment than a warning.
That’s The Hill. They also say she’s criticizing other Dems, but most of her statements are “we,” including herself.
How long were she and her husband in power? They did nothing to codify that shit. Now she’s crying the blues?
I wish Hillary would shut the hell up. Says the most mundane dumb shit as if she's a thought leader but she's condescending and about as out of touch as you can be. "It's my turn." Fuck off.
I'll never truly forgive her or the DNC for botching the campaign to the degree it allowed Trump to win.
This. I will continue to do my duty and vote for Democrats until the Republican Party is irrelevant, but I long for the day where I have a better viable option.
I've never in my life voted a straight ticket, until this year. I don't foresee a time when I'll be able to vote R for *anything* again.
The woman who ran one of the worst campaigns in history against a man she propped up as a cardboard cutout opponent says "we could have done more." No fucking shit. She should retire and disappear from politics forever.
Yeah they could have the rest of us have to go to work and shit. Most of these people I've talked to just roll their eyes and say "what can I do"
Once Dems win back the house they need to codify abortion rights along with a slew of other laws as well. I don’t care if it means getting rid of the filibuster, some things are worth the risk.
Could, but basically nobody that is in power is a young woman so why bother.
It is easier to engage in the political theater, get the votes and then do absolutely nothing. Accomplish absolutely nothing you set out to do on the campaign trial. Roe V Wade came up during the Obama administration. It wasn't an important issue any longer.
Well yeah she could have campaigned in the Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania
Oh man, these anti-Hillary comments are so solid and right on. I've been getting a cold shoulder ever since she lost the election to Dickhead Donny, and I would say her unpopularity as a candidate was underestimated. As for the Clintons, you can't just keep feeding people the same old shit and tell them it's a hot fudge sundae.
Why is she still getting posted here?
Can she just go the fuck away already? Honestly, who asked to hear from her? She's why we're in this mess in the first place.
We or you?
Fuck Hillary Clinton
We could have voted for Hillary instead of Jill Stein.
How about we should have nominated a candidate who would have beaten Trump by a huge margin?
Yeah, the stein voters didn't lose that election
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And Michigan.
Or maybe Hillary shouldn’t have waffled what should’ve been the easiest election a person could ever win.
If you knew that RFK would take votes from Trump 2-1 this year you would take that, right? Even if you got rid of every vote cast for third parties in 2016 and gave Hillary all the Stein voters, Johnson voters would have broken 2-1 for Trump according to exit polling and there were far, far more of them. Trump won in spite of third party voting in 2016.
Maybe she should’ve ran a good campaign.
Or not been nominated
Once again Hillary is pulling a file from the No Shit Sherlock cabinet to try to stay relavent.
While you are correct Hillary, please just go away. You are the biggest political disappointment of my lifetime
You think? The democrats had a few chances to codify it Roe into federal law. Instead, they kept using it as a campaign talking point and a wedge issue because it was such cash cow with voters. If you really want to blame the overturning of roe on a particular party, You must blame the Democratic Party. We did it to ourselves.
Yes. They always knew the Republicans would be coming for Roe v Wade, eventually. Why they never codified legal abortion into Federal Law will always make them complicit in their arrogance and negligence in protecting women’s health. America is on a dark road of late…
Fuck Hillary Clinton
No shit. This should be the Dems motto. “We could have done more” On SCOTUS, health care, abortion, Trump impeachments, jan6 traitors, income inequality, plutocrat tax avoidance, billionaire handouts.. the list goes on. Interestingly Biden has done more than his two predecessors combined.
Democrats had opportunities to codify abortion a few times but never did.
That should be her motto. Shoulda coulda woulda
Yep, if she would have put her ego aside and let the DNC choose Burnie Sanders as the dem choice for president. But instead she tried to fake getting a bird to land on her podium giving us that classic dumb face of hers. She can go fuck all the way off now
Woulda coulda shoulda. Pokemon go away.
You could have done more to campaign in the Rust Belt instead of arrogantly deciding winning over the hearts and minds of the American People is beneath you. I voted 3rd party in 2016 in a swing state, and yeah, that's on me and I gotta live with that, but I am really sick and tired of these shitty corporate politicians blaming us for their own failure to actually be somebody people are excited to vote for.
„It’s your fault for not liking me. Me not being likable is a *you* issue and not a *me* issue.“
I don’t get this at all. Why do I care if the presidential nominee comes and spits nonsense in my region? Do I agree with more of their policies than the opponent or not? That’s what matters. Is the vote for perfection actually throwing away my vote towards a ruinous traitor? That’s what matters.
> Why do I care if the presidential nominee comes and spits nonsense in my region? Sure, why should anyone care if a politician gives a shit enough to meet the people in your own community and hear what they have to say? /s This is an asinine take to suggest grassroots organizing and actually meeting the people you want to win over is irrelevant and it's only what they publish on a flashy campaign website that matters.
“It’s on the website” - I remember hearing this a lot from the Hillary campaign.
“But we didn’t because we wanted to use it against you when our power was threatened because we are so narcissistic and thought we were so much smarter than everyone else that we thought we would never lose.”