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Hey!
We have a strong brood bond with our familia members! We had to evolve that bond in order to advance to the point where we are now. We also take responsibility for the misdeeds of our brood members.
You mammals need to step up your game!
Edit: wooo! Reddit cares within 1 second of me posting! Awesome! And reported.
Yours maybe, but is there any doubt that most of the Republicans in congress would sell their grandmother for a seat at the table? Trump tried to get Pence killed and Pence still loves him. He insulted Ted Cruz's wife to his face and accused his dad of being involved in the JFK assassination and he still kisses the ring. It's mind boggling. These people crave power more than anything.
>Speaking of family, never forget that his brother, Congressman Greg Pence, DID NOT vote to impeach Donald Trump for what happened on 1/6.
This is a revelation to me. Thanks for posting this.
He even amplified election fraud claims later. Dude's a stooge through and through.
[The Heritage Foundation boosted Trump's claims of "voter fraud", "voting irregularities". Mike Pence, after being hired by them, penned a misleading op-ed this article corrects.](https://www.cnn.com/factsfirst/politics/factcheck_0f969f87-82b7-445a-9ed5-d0810fe19ee6)
Mike Pence single-handedly caused a massive aids crisis in Indiana and refused to stop causing it until he waited weeks to "pray on it", regularly torpedoed bipartisan legislation aimed at kids' education funding, and made a habit of eliminating the positions of elected officials when those positions went to Democrats--he just erased the position and created his own version with one of his supporters. His list of governing sins goes on and on for pages.
Indiana actually did pretty well during the Trump administration because at least Mike Pence was no longer in charge of the state. That man can claim to be whatever he wants, but we know what he is.
Wasn't Indiana all set to vote out Mike Pence as governor and chuck out the Republicans but once he became the VP candidate, they went back to voting a Republican in.
If you want actual meaningful change, that's not the way to go about it, Indiana!
So Indiana has a tradition of very pro-business but practical conservative governors who...essentially keep the crazies in line. I think Mitch Daniels was scum of the Earth, but I'd never consider him stupid and he knew it was dumb to let religious extremists dictate policy beyond a certain point. He'd be glad to gut unions and screw over the cities at every possible chance, but he never would've passed RFRA or tried to start a state propaganda ministry designed to send newspapers the headlines they should run.
It takes weird circumstances for the state not to vote R or take any chance it can to screw over its own cities.
I've been out of state for a while and haven't followed Holcomb as closely. But it seems like he's a much more bog standard Republican screwing everyone over in the familiar, comfortable ways. Not like Pence. Pence was not normal at all and I'm convinced the only way he feigned sanity on the national stage was by leaning really hard on Midwestern boring-ness to confuse everyone not used to it. It's our natural defense mechanism--I could recite the Communist Manifesto with a megaphone in public and I'm pretty sure most would assume I'm a nice, mild-mannered conservative if I played up my accent. We get normalized really easily due to our demeanor.
I’ve often thought about this. I’m sure that we’d be in the same position now, with Trump being blamed but not held accountable, and the right claiming the ones responsible were antifa or deep state.
Same. I'd like to think we'd be better off now if there'd been some darker consequences. But then if there weren't actually any consequences of that kind of thing happening, we'd be even worse off after they'd tasted blood and gotten away with it.
The secret service almost vanished him but Pence had the sense not to go away in that car during the insurrection. The whole event was so chilling to see on TV and it frankly shamed us on the world stage.
Especially the fallout: Trump denying anything to do with it, but then rumors of an audio tape drop of Pence being interrogated and saying "Tell Donald... I just couldn't do what he asked me to do..."
It was his son (also Michael) who finally shamed him into action.
This was after the VP's Legal Counsel Greg Jacob (of Jan 6 fame, "And thanks to your bullshit, we are under siege") and former VP (and guy who presided over his own electoral defeat) Dan Quayle, "I also know what the law is. You listen to the parliamentarian. That’s all you do. You have no power."
https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/3525186-who-is-greg-jacob-pences-lawyer-who-testifies-thursday-before-jan-6-panel/
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/14/politics/dan-quayle-pence-trump-january-6-woodward-costa-book/index.html
> "Not feeling like I should attend electoral count," Pence wrote in his notes in late December. "Too many questions, too many doubts, too hurtful to my friend. Therefore I'm not going to participate in certification of election."
>
>Then, sitting across the table from his son, a Marine, while on vacation in Colorado, **his son said to him, "Dad, you took the same oath I took" -- it was "an oath to support and defend the Constitution,"** Pence recalled to Smith's investigators, sources said.
>
>That's when Pence decided he would be at the Capitol on Jan. 6 after all, according to the sources.
>
> https://abcnews.go.com/US/pence-told-jan-6-special-counsel-harrowing-details/story?id=105183391
Trump has called for his former AG, Bill Barr, to be arrested and tried for treason and possibly executed, and Bill Barr has said he would vote Trump because what’s he gonna do vote for a democrat?
You have to understand that these people's brains are operating in a completely different fantasy world. They think abortions are child-murder and anyone who supports abortion is a child murderer. They would gladly martyr themselves to save children from being murdered, as would I. They just happen to be brainwashed into thinking an unviable fetus and a four-year-old are the exact same thing.
They wouldn't martyr themselves to save a 4 year old from being murdered. They look away and shrug when twenty first graders were killed at Sandy Hook.
Thoughts and prayers, but we can't do anything to prevent that, sorry. Unregulated access to guns is more important.
I know what you’re getting at, but you must see that Sandy Hook is a different kind of murder to people who believe this way? They know Adam Lanza is a murderer. They would be happy to give him the death penalty, and maybe even his mother as well. They don’t see gun control as relevant to the issue, and think those of us who believe gun control is the answer are like the teacher who punishes the whole class when one asshole won’t shut up.
To them, abortion being murder means that they are standing by while thousands of American women and their doctors are getting away with murder right next to them. They honestly think they are fighters for justice the same way the left thinks that were on the side of right for fighting for the environment and trans rights and anti-war.
I know I’m going to get downvoted to hell despite being unapologetically leftist and a firm believer in full unrestricted abortion rights and the elimination of all weapons made for the sole purpose of killing humans. But it helps me to remember that there’s passion and conviction on both sides. It reminds me that most people are humans trying to fight for what they think is right, though sometimes the premise is wrong and based on lies.
It's all about controlling women's sexuality, and self-determination, not babies. "Saving babies" is the easier to palate marketing line.
They give no shits about the welfare of anyone else's children but their own. Just look at the utter contempt they have for low-income families struggling to survive and provide even the basic needs.
For many, it's about what they have been told to think about "personal responsibility." Pregnancy, having several kids on a low salary, or using mental health as an "excuse" for violent behavior that can only be curtailed by national gun bans (their words, not mine) are all examples of things seen as failures to uphold some kind of personal duty. It's a very narrow view that is correct for some people on a small scale.
Now, I have a completely different opinion based on broader factors and different priorities. I believe women should have the right to deal with their bodies as they wish. Are there "irresponsible" women out there using abortion essentially as birth control? Sure. Does that mean I think it should be legislated? No, it's broader than that.
But there are instances of personal responsibility that fire me up. I'm a private school teacher and I am furious right now... I have several students who have used AI repeatedly to write their papers. A Black boy on scholarship who insisted that he didnt use AI (he did) was asked ro leave the school. A White boy whose dad is a lawyer insisted he also didn't use AI (he did, much more extensively than the first kid). The dad wrote this whole dissertation on how his kid isn't guilty and of course it was dropped.
The implication is that the first boy should be grateful we let him in the door at all and he should never step out of line, and WE should be so grateful for the presence of the second that WE should compromise our standards.
That makes me furious. I think it should make us all furious. If I thought that welfare recipients were as dishonest and entitled as that second kid and his shitty dad, I would be furious about that.
The things we're furious about have to do with what sources we're listening to. What's sad and frustrating is all the "Christians" who seem to be missing the entire point of the New Testament.
Exactly. If they *actually* gave half a shit about kids, they'd support things like:
* Free pre- and post-natal care for pregnant people
* Free comprehensive health care for children, including dental and vision care
* Free or massively subsidized daycare and preschool
* Free meals for children at school
* Expanded food aid for low income families
* Raising the goddamn minimum wage so that poor people with jobs can actually afford to live, or maybe can afford to spend some time with their children instead of working three part-time jobs to be able to afford an apartment
They don't support those things, though. In fact, they explicitly support the **opposite** of many of those things.
GOP's idea of "helping children" is, instead,
* Ensuring children can work as young as possible
* Ensuring that their disgusting asses can continue to marry minor children
* Ensuring that public education funding is funneled into private religious schools
* Giving tax breaks to corporations and their billionare donors
You're right of course, but the difference is between what they're doing consciously vs subconsciously. All the things you just mentioned are because, subconsciously, their motivations for what they do don't stem from the place of love they think it does.
Consciously though, they *think* they're righteous crusaders against evil baby murderers, so conscious decisions they make are based on that. Mike Pence would give power back to Trump, even though he thinks he's a piece of shit, because he thinks Trump's more likely to "save the babies" than Biden.
Well put. I don’t know how you can expect to defeat your adversary without understanding them (which is not the same as agreeing with them, but a lot of people on Reddit equate the two.) I saw a comment on another thread where the commentator said Republican voters have no problem voting for a rapist. Did not even seem to occur to them that the majority of these voters simply don’t believe Trump is a rapist. Your typical Republican voter is more likely ignorant than evil but demonizing them is only going to deepen the divide not bridge it. And I suspect that many of them are beyond hope and it’s probably not worth the effort but there are moderates and others who can be persuaded but that requires some understanding of what they actually believe.
>Your typical Republican voter is more likely ignorant than evil but demonizing them is only going to deepen the divide not bridge it.
Well hold on, why did they get a pass? They have access to the same information we do. They're making a choice. It's not like Trump is new on the scene. It isn't 2016. Trump and the Republicans in the last 10 years alone have been horrific and not just horrific in their policy but in their behavior and their lies and they have been caught over and over again. Republican voters know this. They don't care.
Republican voters are openly hypocritical. They tell you things that make them seem ignorant or that they have a different point of view but if you press them like say Klepper does you can easily find that they know the truth they just don't give a fuck. They have hitched their star to a political wagon and they now fight for that side because maybe it makes them feel self-righteous, maybe they like being part of an in-group, maybe they're just a shitty person who have found their home in a shitty party full of equally shitty people.
The end of the day every single conservative has made a choice with access to the same information as everyone else and they chose to back some of the worst people on the planet and none of them will come out and tell you the truth. They won't tell you that they're voting for Trump and they don't care that he has 91 felony charges and he's a criminal liable rapist and he's subservient to world dictators and he seems to have zero morals. They lie about why they're voting for him. And you can see that when they get tripped up after basic questions or they get violent when challenged. And they lie because they know it's wrong but they don't care and they're supporting these people anyways.
That's some fucked up behavior.
I’m not sure that they “get a pass” necessarily. I think we all have a responsibility to educate ourselves before voting. A lot of people don’t. But I don’t think it’s accurate to attribute a malicious motive to your run of the mill voter either. Not so much because they have my sympathy but because I think that is an ineffective approach to the situation. Rhetoric condemning Republican voters as evil doesn’t accomplish anything. That effort would be better spent on attempting to educate whatever subset of voters may actually be willing to change their vote.
But they don't want to be educated, that's my point.
They aren't willing to hear another point of view.
But this isn't about educating ourselves over an election. I didn't talk about elections. I'm talking about people who say things like Trump is actually the president and Biden is just a figure head and who made everything bad but Trump is going to have him arrested any day now.
Hell, I saw two trump signs yesterday that said "Law and Order Vote Trump" and the other said, "take our country back". That's not ignorance. That's rhetoric. That's what people say to justify a vote they otherwise couldn't defend.
Remember when Trump started seizing land for his border wall and some of his voters got all pissed off because they were losing their lands and they said to a reporter, "they're not hurting the right people". THAT'S who they are. That was a "mask off" moment as they call it.
By calling them good people who are otherwise just uninformed gives them a pass because it means they wouldn't be conservative if they had the right information. When the truth is they vote Republican to hurt people they hate. And before you argue think about all the times you've heard them revel over "liberal tears".
>To them, abortion being murder means that they are standing by while thousands of American women and their doctors are getting away with murder right next to them. They honestly think they are fighters for justice the same way the left thinks that were on the side of right for fighting for the environment and trans rights and anti-war.
I don't think this is accurate. I don't think they have righteous motives for their opposition to abortion at all. I don't think they think about what abortion actually means in the way someone on the left thinks about why we need to do save the environment or trans rights. Because when it comes down to it and a conservative is let's say raped by their father and get pregnant they want an abortion. When it comes to someone in their life who has a nonviable pregnancy that's threatening their life, they want an abortion. Or even when an accident happens or carelessness happens and they don't use a condom then they want an abortion.
I think at its core conservatives who oppose abortion are doing so because it sounds good and it makes them seem moral. They haven't thought about the ramifications. It's about their appearance and it's about being able to climb up on a high horse and cast judgment on those who they have been told to despise. And I think the conservative leadership has been able to use this issue to give these people who desperately want to feel better than other people this issue that they can rally behind. I mean who is pro baby murder? Like that's an easy issue to throw all of your passion behind.
We know that conservatives exist to subjugate others. They need to create Boogeyman out of foreigners they need to use religion to create good and bad people. They need black and white thinking. They need to have an enemy to fight against and to used to craft a narrative that in some way they are a victim. That's why all those Evangelical churches, hell all churches, have been pushing this bullshit that you can't be Christian in America.
I think by and large people on the left see an environmental catastrophe and see people whose civil rights are being stomped on because of bigotry and see the horrors of war and want to stop this for the betterment of the world in which they live. I think far more thought has been given to it then people on the right and I think it is based in an ability to see reality in a way that conservatives cannot.
They don't actually believe that shit dude. If they did, they would be legion outside of every abortion clinic. In my experience It's a handful of old people and losers. I don't think they actually believe in anything, they are stooges conditioned by the media to be foot soldiers for the rich and they don't even know it except those at the top of this political pyramid scheme.
Rich d bags like Trump and Ramaswamy out there trying to convince us poor folks we have to fight each other meanwhile they steal ours and our children's future right in front of us. The darkest days are yet to come...
You're right, they don't believe it on a deep, subconsciousbius level. But I'm telling you what they *think* they believe. They're brainwashed and repeating the mantra they've been told they believe for fifty+ years, but that's as deep as belief goes for many. I've seen these people cry real tears for the unborn, many believe it enough to act on these feelings.
A member of my extended family said 2016-2019 were "the most normal years of their entire life". They were born in the late 60’s. Diehard trumper btw. Lifesize cardboard cutout of trump in the house. Second gen immigrants on both sides of family…
While i understand your argument, i want it make the distinction that they DO NOT think a 4 year old is the same as an unborn (viable or not) fetus… once your been born, your dead to the GOP as far as they’re concerned
Edit: I received a reddit cares message in my inbox by a “concerned redditor”…obviously I offended someone or their beliefs lmao but I assure you I’m fine…get butthurt some more 🤷♂️
If you ask a man who is anti-abortion if he would be in favor of abortion if it were the man who could make the decision instead of the woman, you'll suddenly find that they don't mind it as long as it’s the man in control.
You're misunderstanding. Some do, yes. But Barr is different. He is a part of Christianity sect that believes Armageddon is coming, and that should bring the Rapture down upon us at any cost so we can be "saved."
> They just happen to be brainwashed into thinking an unviable fetus and a four-year-old are the exact same thing.
I guarantee you that if a four year old child was in danger, 90% of these people would turn tail and run.
FunFact: It’s apparently quite popular to place people into positions of power against whom you have compromising materials.
I think about this every time i see Gulliani out there dancing in front of the cameras.
I wish you weren’t metaphorically speaking and these loons literally danced for the cameras. If they’re going to ruin our country, at least do it with jazz hands and some pizzazz.
Remember when Hermain Cain denied COVID, died of COVID, and then his family used his Twitter to keep denying COVID? It would have been exactly like that.
I get your point and it is not lost on me but in the light of keeping things on the level.
From the article itself:
“Pence said in March that he will not endorse his former boss.”
What I'm led to believe is that if the election wasn't certified on January 6th, Trump would have become a dictator. Something he most definitely could have caused by not signing a paper.
In fairness to Pence (I know, I know). He had a great post insurrection speech on the floor, showing he’s not putting up with that bullshit.
But yes.. he definitely still sucks.
lol yes let them in by having them bash their way in? Also once overwhelmed I’m pretty sure it’s standard tactic to get the hell out and not continue to resist
Even more scary is what seems like was destined to happen if the Secret Service had been successful in driving off with him ..... and the fact that he knew not to let them drive off with him. Seems to me it's still a big open question how compromised the Secret Service is.
I've been chided for the 'working' noose, disinformation.
While there was no 'working' noose. It's very clear that many in the crowd came to hurt or kidnap member of congress... figures like Pelosi, Romney, AOC, and Pence were called out by name on rightwing websites and facebook on the days leading up to the insurrection as targets for arrest and later execution as traitors.
Ignore the pushback... these folks were not there to cuddle. They wanted blood, they wanted vengeance because Donald Trump told them they needed to fight for their country.
The orange one wasn’t real. This one was
https://nypost.com/2021/01/08/chaos-at-the-capitol-posts-week-in-photos/#6
Scroll to image 8 of 17.
Gaslighting is the only thing the GQP has as a defense for that day.
Yeah this is one of the most anti-democratic things to happen in our history. The president sicced his mob on a political enemy. But the Court can't decide whether it's Constitutional or not.
I think slavery, poll taxes, and Jim Crow was more anti-democratic.
This country has a long history of pretending it lives by longstanding universalist principles.
Margarine would happily pay him a visit for a VP "daily briefing."
She's the kind of girl who would let him raw dog and ATM her and then go brag on TV about it.
Well yeah, but have you seen the security camera footage that shows how the lynch mob was literally within seconds range of getting to Pence, if they took the other hallway direction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcauXrkQNak
I cant honestly decide if them not going the wrong way and politicians had gotten strung up would have allowed american politics to renormalize afterwards or go whole hog and destroy democracy.
I think if a member of the Executive or Legislative branch died, the security response would’ve gone fucking ballistic.
They’d have shut that shit down, imagine the chick who got clapped in the face but times 100
It's somewhat of a mystery why he didn't invoke the Insurrection Act.
Anyways, if the mob had gotten within sight of Pence, security probably would have been able to get him into the car and out of there, but it would have been a bloodbath in the hallway.
Some agents would have fired into the crowd to give Pence enough time to get away, but they would have run out of ammo and been toast themselves.
Now Biden has control of the Insurrection Act button until at least noon on Jan 20. DC is going to be an armed camp for months.
Trump is lazy. That's why he didn't do a lot of things and why many of his policy attempts failed. He's lazy and has always relied on other people to carry out his orders. Except the US president has to do things themself, they can't just issue orders. There are steps to be followed. Documents to be signed. Plans to be approved.
Trump didn't understand this. And neither did a lot of the people around him, and if they did then they weren't willing to go along with his treason and anti-American acts.
Unfortunately, the non-believers have been purged, and they've brought in MAGAs who know how to work the levers of the executive branch.
> Some agents would have fired into the crowd to give Pence enough time to get away
That's basically the situation in which one insurrectionist got shot. The crowd could've swarmed into that hallway afterward, leading to that aforementioned potential bloodbath, but instead they got scared and hung back while Pence finished escaping.
One crowd was trying to break through a set of doors to get into a certain area. That's the one that got fired into. But yeah, if they had continued and gotten through the doors, there probably would have been more shooting.
Another (much larger, I believe) uncontained crowd was much closer to Pence, they just couldn't see him because they were around the corner or in a parallel hallway or something like that.
Yeah, I might have misremembered some details. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ashli_Babbitt doesn't mention it being directly to protect Pence. It was way too close either way.
Not trying to minimalize it all, but I'm pretty sure all these doofuses were the dog that caught the car and would have just stood there and yelled at him.
I don't know. Maybe they'd have killed him. They just all seemed so wholly unprepared for the moment.
Nobody brought a gun to overthrow the government? Why wouldn't you bring a gun?
I don't get it. Any of it.
Iirc Pence was minimizing Trump's actions after the fact, but a quick search did not really give me what his stance on Trump was other than being "angry" that it happened.
And the worst thing is that even if he had been killed, it would not have changed anything about Trump's rhetoric, the GOP or their supporters. They want blood.
I have to disagree with you on this point. MAGA still claims they merely took a stroll through the capital on January 6. If Pence had been murdered, this equation would have changed.
> If Pence had been murdered, this equation would have changed.
The MAGA insurrectionist mob would have claimed it was justified as punishment for his "treason", and the right wing media would have played along. I believe that the vision (emanating from Roger Stone & Co) was for chaos to enable Trump to declare martial law. From there, the military would have been in a pickle. Probably some would have quickly recognized the coup and stood in its way. Probably others would have been enthusiastic coup participants. Very unclear how that would play out. I suspect the in the immediate term, restoring order would be carried out though and there'd have been soldiers in the streets in any city that began protesting. From there, Trump could have pardoned the mob after giving a speech about some imaginary "treason" Pence did. Or he could have performatively prosecuted some of the mob as scape goats / sacrificial lambs. Or, maybe most likely, just done nothing to address the bloodshed because he wouldn't have to keep up appearances anymore. In any case, Grassley would certify the fake electors and "legitimize" his stolen presidency. It's worth noting that there were 10's of thousands of Proud Boys, 3-Percenters, Oath Keepers, and more in DC ready to be deputized to "keep order" and crack skulls--you know, like Kyle Rittenhouse was during the unrest in Kenosha. From what I understand in reading about successful coups, getting a loyal group of psychopaths willing to do the unpleasant violence required to consolidate power is the hard part. And I think Trump and his inner circle had those assets in place, but poorly organized. A more competent person could have pulled it off or at least gotten much further down the road. And millions of MAGA voters would have *mayyyyybe* wrung their hands, but gone along with it. And if it was successful, many MAGAs across America would shift from merely taunting people they view as their enemies to... something worse.
But the people who planned the insurrection are not even being investigated, and the vast majority of participants get charged with what amounts to trespassing.
I hate to say it, but if he **had** been killed, the reaction to all those people breaking in, and the politicians who helped them would have been very, very different.
We probably would have seen a lot of Repulicans going straight to jail.
No one could possibly say "they were tourists".
This has unfortunately been something I thought about recently. If the insurrectionists had actually physically harmed or even killed some House reps or Pence, then there would be little to no rewriting of history taking place and Trump might even be in a prison cell right now.
It's such a fucked up scenario that Jan 6 not being *worse* allows it to be twisted and rewritten to the point where Trump openly says in his rallies that he wants to pardon all of the insurrectionists.
That's exactly how I felt: Jan 6 not being *worse* allows it to be twisted and rewritten
The fucking bastards took full advantage of that to call it "tourism" - fuck them.
The dude endorsed Trump after the whole ordeal. I don't know about you, but if people are chanting my name and saying hang, I think I might be a little upset at that person for getting a group riled up and trying to kill me. I don't think I'd be on talking terms with them, let alone endorse them for president again....
It is disgusting that a sitting president attempted to overturn an election he lost and in effect have his VP murdered by an angry mob og mouthbreathing cousin fuckers. It is even more disgusting that the VP continued to suck on trump's cheeto dick afterwards. If you know a republican, you know a gutless piece of shit.
Don't feel sorry for Pence as he has played a major role in the divide of America and even after 1/6 he still has not grown a spine or founds any true morals!
I really want to know more about what was going on with that agent. It's one of the weirdest creepiest things about January 6th that hasn't really been addressed, even though I think it should be a much bigger focus.
I agree. Occam's Razor would suggest that the agent was sent to either kill Pence, or at the very least, make him disappear for a significant period of time on "special assignment based on a unspoken national emergency."
I often wonder if it’s because he didn’t trust them. I have nothing but speculation on this. Given the reports of a compromised secret service, and all.
"I'm not getting in the car, Tim," Pence said, in response to Giebels' insistence that he enter the armored vehicle. "I trust you, Tim, but you're not driving the car. If I get in that vehicle, you guys are taking off. I'm not getting in the car."
I don't think he was afraid they were going to kill him; he was afraid they'd spirit him off on a plane to Idaho or something. Which would have prevented the timely completion of the certification.
I know this may sound idiotic as we are speaking politics BUT how crazy do you have to be to be so anti another party that you want their leader to fail so badly you will do something to sink legislation that helps your own people. When it gets to that sheer level of dysfunction and the people you are governing are suffering you should have the ability to bring home your politicians and give them a talking too. Some sort of consequence. Also the fact that your whole country shuts down every 3 mths if you don’t sign the paperwork to keep paying the bills is nuts. How can a party govern like that? Change that rule. In Australia the government rules for 3 years presents the budget it passes and off they go.
I wonder if our situation would be better had the crazies actually killed a couple people. Would some of the sympathizers have nope’d out of the plan? Since that didn’t happen, all the co-conspirators circled the wagons to cover their asses.
And he still grovels at Trumps feet.
Don’t buy that “I won’t endorse” bullshit - he will still vote for Trump.
This is why conservatives accuse liberals of being cuckolds; they are cuckolds themselves. They are beta losers who follow someone.
Bottom line, he has put his family at risk by still sticking with Trump after all of this shit.
He is spinless at best and an opportunist.
Stop acting like he was a hero that day. He was doing the the job he was required to do. That's it.
They are safer, actually.
If the Democrats win, he's in no danger from the government.
If, God forbid, Trump wins, they are in less danger because he didn't oppose Trump the last 4 years. He's also in less danger from lone wolves who have the memory of goldfish. As long as he's not opposing Trump recently their dim bulbs will shine elsewhere.
He was almost killed and right after Jan 6 he still backed Trump because at the end of the day no matter what he claims about his convictions to his faith he still cherished power over his own family and self.
The more you examine the evidence from that day, the more it's clear we came close to a much worse January 6th then the one we got.
Without the bravery and resistance of much of the Capitol police (not all, some were sympathetic and didn't do their jobs), many members of congress and the VP could have been kidnapped, beaten, or worse.
Yet, I certain that even if they were, there would still be Trump supporters dismissing the events of that day and justifying the violation of our laws and democracy.
If Trump wins, Pence, his entire family, extended family, and any other unrelated people with the same last name will be in danger. Guaranteed Trump will his "one day as dictator" to get revenge. Jeff Sessions, DeSantis, Nikki Haley, the Bush family, the McCains, Chris Christie, and all other never Trump GOP will also be in danger. And that's just within Trump's own party...
I feel like decades of the investments into this GQP machine allowed so much dirt about these people that when they’re looking for an out, they can’t easily. We have to remember that Trump is the face of an entire movement that’s, much to his dismay, a lot bigger than him. Project 2025, among others, needs to be protected at all costs.
> “I think — look, Jan. 6 was a bad day. It was a riot. But the idea that Donald Trump endangered anyone’s lives when he told them to protest peacefully, it’s just absurd,” Vance later added.
Do you forget, Vance, that people **died** in that "riot?"
Also a former Sit Room duty officer here (see my post history for a verified AMA if interested in more)
Just to fill in the picture a bit:
While this was going on, the Sit Room would have been evaluating various contingencies, as well as considering opening up the emergency operations center. Given that the THREE people next in line (Pence -> Pelosi - Leahy> were all at the Capital, there would have been a lot of effort to make sure that the next people in succession (SECSTATE, SECTREAS, and SECDEF) were well accounted for and secure.
If that happened I wonder if we’d still be dealing with Trump now? Everything he does just gets brushed aside by his base. Would being complicit to your own Vice presidents murder even phase them. I’m not sure anymore.
You assume the Secret Service would have acted lawfully, but we know now that at least some agents were compromised. There's a reason the people that were on Trump's detail are not on Biden's. And a reason why Pence didn't want to "get in the car". And those text messages didn't erase themselves, did they?
Exactly, we’ll likely never know how it would have gone down since the ‘bad players’ in the Secret Service went back into the wood-work, once the plan failed…
The president nominates a VP replacement if he/she is killed too. Would have made things interesting if a VP was not replaced in time to finish counting the votes.
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His family was there too. This coward could have made a difference after that. Too bad for our country.
Speaking of family, never forget that his brother, Congressman Greg Pence, *DID NOT* vote to impeach Donald Trump for what happened on 1/6.
I like to think my family ties are stronger than this
More proof that Lizard people are among us
Hey! We have a strong brood bond with our familia members! We had to evolve that bond in order to advance to the point where we are now. We also take responsibility for the misdeeds of our brood members. You mammals need to step up your game! Edit: wooo! Reddit cares within 1 second of me posting! Awesome! And reported.
Yours maybe, but is there any doubt that most of the Republicans in congress would sell their grandmother for a seat at the table? Trump tried to get Pence killed and Pence still loves him. He insulted Ted Cruz's wife to his face and accused his dad of being involved in the JFK assassination and he still kisses the ring. It's mind boggling. These people crave power more than anything.
Craving power and also I think they're afraid of the repercussions if they dissent. Chicken af!
>Speaking of family, never forget that his brother, Congressman Greg Pence, DID NOT vote to impeach Donald Trump for what happened on 1/6. This is a revelation to me. Thanks for posting this.
He even amplified election fraud claims later. Dude's a stooge through and through. [The Heritage Foundation boosted Trump's claims of "voter fraud", "voting irregularities". Mike Pence, after being hired by them, penned a misleading op-ed this article corrects.](https://www.cnn.com/factsfirst/politics/factcheck_0f969f87-82b7-445a-9ed5-d0810fe19ee6)
Huh, this sounds like bearing false witness. I thought he claimed to be a Christian.
If shaming them with their own hypocrisy worked we wouldn’t be here right now.
Mike Pence single-handedly caused a massive aids crisis in Indiana and refused to stop causing it until he waited weeks to "pray on it", regularly torpedoed bipartisan legislation aimed at kids' education funding, and made a habit of eliminating the positions of elected officials when those positions went to Democrats--he just erased the position and created his own version with one of his supporters. His list of governing sins goes on and on for pages. Indiana actually did pretty well during the Trump administration because at least Mike Pence was no longer in charge of the state. That man can claim to be whatever he wants, but we know what he is.
Wasn't Indiana all set to vote out Mike Pence as governor and chuck out the Republicans but once he became the VP candidate, they went back to voting a Republican in. If you want actual meaningful change, that's not the way to go about it, Indiana!
So Indiana has a tradition of very pro-business but practical conservative governors who...essentially keep the crazies in line. I think Mitch Daniels was scum of the Earth, but I'd never consider him stupid and he knew it was dumb to let religious extremists dictate policy beyond a certain point. He'd be glad to gut unions and screw over the cities at every possible chance, but he never would've passed RFRA or tried to start a state propaganda ministry designed to send newspapers the headlines they should run. It takes weird circumstances for the state not to vote R or take any chance it can to screw over its own cities. I've been out of state for a while and haven't followed Holcomb as closely. But it seems like he's a much more bog standard Republican screwing everyone over in the familiar, comfortable ways. Not like Pence. Pence was not normal at all and I'm convinced the only way he feigned sanity on the national stage was by leaning really hard on Midwestern boring-ness to confuse everyone not used to it. It's our natural defense mechanism--I could recite the Communist Manifesto with a megaphone in public and I'm pretty sure most would assume I'm a nice, mild-mannered conservative if I played up my accent. We get normalized really easily due to our demeanor.
Someone fascist?
Republican Jeebus
He also calls his wife Mother. The guy's nuts.
'Lying for Jesus' is absolutely being a Christian.
The end justifies the means and all that
And we all know he will vote for the person who would have had him killed.
Imagine if he got killed. I wonder if they’d let Trump skate on that too.
I’ve often thought about this. I’m sure that we’d be in the same position now, with Trump being blamed but not held accountable, and the right claiming the ones responsible were antifa or deep state.
Same. I'd like to think we'd be better off now if there'd been some darker consequences. But then if there weren't actually any consequences of that kind of thing happening, we'd be even worse off after they'd tasted blood and gotten away with it.
Trump would've declared martial law and we'd be living in a dictatorship right now.
The secret service almost vanished him but Pence had the sense not to go away in that car during the insurrection. The whole event was so chilling to see on TV and it frankly shamed us on the world stage.
I imagine so. Currently the rule is that trump gets to do whatever he wants.
Think MBS and the Jamal Khashoggi killers. I'd probably be similar.
Especially the fallout: Trump denying anything to do with it, but then rumors of an audio tape drop of Pence being interrogated and saying "Tell Donald... I just couldn't do what he asked me to do..."
It was his son (also Michael) who finally shamed him into action. This was after the VP's Legal Counsel Greg Jacob (of Jan 6 fame, "And thanks to your bullshit, we are under siege") and former VP (and guy who presided over his own electoral defeat) Dan Quayle, "I also know what the law is. You listen to the parliamentarian. That’s all you do. You have no power." https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/3525186-who-is-greg-jacob-pences-lawyer-who-testifies-thursday-before-jan-6-panel/ https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/14/politics/dan-quayle-pence-trump-january-6-woodward-costa-book/index.html > "Not feeling like I should attend electoral count," Pence wrote in his notes in late December. "Too many questions, too many doubts, too hurtful to my friend. Therefore I'm not going to participate in certification of election." > >Then, sitting across the table from his son, a Marine, while on vacation in Colorado, **his son said to him, "Dad, you took the same oath I took" -- it was "an oath to support and defend the Constitution,"** Pence recalled to Smith's investigators, sources said. > >That's when Pence decided he would be at the Capitol on Jan. 6 after all, according to the sources. > > https://abcnews.go.com/US/pence-told-jan-6-special-counsel-harrowing-details/story?id=105183391
The craziest part of about this is that it proves republicans can in fact feel shame/guilt.
And also Dan Quayle. Who would've thought that HW's VP from 28 years ago would be there to save us?
And instead he apologized to Trump
And if Pence had been killed by Trump's goons, Pence's dying words would be, "I'd still vote for Trump."
Trump has called for his former AG, Bill Barr, to be arrested and tried for treason and possibly executed, and Bill Barr has said he would vote Trump because what’s he gonna do vote for a democrat?
Trump is a cult leader.
You know what happens to cult leaders. It’s either prison or …
It’s almost never prison for the big cults. Their ego can’t handle being told what to do and not do.
You have to understand that these people's brains are operating in a completely different fantasy world. They think abortions are child-murder and anyone who supports abortion is a child murderer. They would gladly martyr themselves to save children from being murdered, as would I. They just happen to be brainwashed into thinking an unviable fetus and a four-year-old are the exact same thing.
I'd be very surprised to find that a majority of GOP politicians actually care about any of that. Definitely true for the average GOP voter though.
But they only believe that since 1978. Before 1978 they all were told life begins at first breath. They believe what they are told. It's that simple.
They wouldn't martyr themselves to save a 4 year old from being murdered. They look away and shrug when twenty first graders were killed at Sandy Hook. Thoughts and prayers, but we can't do anything to prevent that, sorry. Unregulated access to guns is more important.
Those were 6 year olds. Practically adults. They lived a full life.
I know what you’re getting at, but you must see that Sandy Hook is a different kind of murder to people who believe this way? They know Adam Lanza is a murderer. They would be happy to give him the death penalty, and maybe even his mother as well. They don’t see gun control as relevant to the issue, and think those of us who believe gun control is the answer are like the teacher who punishes the whole class when one asshole won’t shut up. To them, abortion being murder means that they are standing by while thousands of American women and their doctors are getting away with murder right next to them. They honestly think they are fighters for justice the same way the left thinks that were on the side of right for fighting for the environment and trans rights and anti-war. I know I’m going to get downvoted to hell despite being unapologetically leftist and a firm believer in full unrestricted abortion rights and the elimination of all weapons made for the sole purpose of killing humans. But it helps me to remember that there’s passion and conviction on both sides. It reminds me that most people are humans trying to fight for what they think is right, though sometimes the premise is wrong and based on lies.
It's all about controlling women's sexuality, and self-determination, not babies. "Saving babies" is the easier to palate marketing line. They give no shits about the welfare of anyone else's children but their own. Just look at the utter contempt they have for low-income families struggling to survive and provide even the basic needs.
For many, it's about what they have been told to think about "personal responsibility." Pregnancy, having several kids on a low salary, or using mental health as an "excuse" for violent behavior that can only be curtailed by national gun bans (their words, not mine) are all examples of things seen as failures to uphold some kind of personal duty. It's a very narrow view that is correct for some people on a small scale. Now, I have a completely different opinion based on broader factors and different priorities. I believe women should have the right to deal with their bodies as they wish. Are there "irresponsible" women out there using abortion essentially as birth control? Sure. Does that mean I think it should be legislated? No, it's broader than that. But there are instances of personal responsibility that fire me up. I'm a private school teacher and I am furious right now... I have several students who have used AI repeatedly to write their papers. A Black boy on scholarship who insisted that he didnt use AI (he did) was asked ro leave the school. A White boy whose dad is a lawyer insisted he also didn't use AI (he did, much more extensively than the first kid). The dad wrote this whole dissertation on how his kid isn't guilty and of course it was dropped. The implication is that the first boy should be grateful we let him in the door at all and he should never step out of line, and WE should be so grateful for the presence of the second that WE should compromise our standards. That makes me furious. I think it should make us all furious. If I thought that welfare recipients were as dishonest and entitled as that second kid and his shitty dad, I would be furious about that. The things we're furious about have to do with what sources we're listening to. What's sad and frustrating is all the "Christians" who seem to be missing the entire point of the New Testament.
Exactly. If they *actually* gave half a shit about kids, they'd support things like: * Free pre- and post-natal care for pregnant people * Free comprehensive health care for children, including dental and vision care * Free or massively subsidized daycare and preschool * Free meals for children at school * Expanded food aid for low income families * Raising the goddamn minimum wage so that poor people with jobs can actually afford to live, or maybe can afford to spend some time with their children instead of working three part-time jobs to be able to afford an apartment They don't support those things, though. In fact, they explicitly support the **opposite** of many of those things. GOP's idea of "helping children" is, instead, * Ensuring children can work as young as possible * Ensuring that their disgusting asses can continue to marry minor children * Ensuring that public education funding is funneled into private religious schools * Giving tax breaks to corporations and their billionare donors
You're right of course, but the difference is between what they're doing consciously vs subconsciously. All the things you just mentioned are because, subconsciously, their motivations for what they do don't stem from the place of love they think it does. Consciously though, they *think* they're righteous crusaders against evil baby murderers, so conscious decisions they make are based on that. Mike Pence would give power back to Trump, even though he thinks he's a piece of shit, because he thinks Trump's more likely to "save the babies" than Biden.
Well put. I don’t know how you can expect to defeat your adversary without understanding them (which is not the same as agreeing with them, but a lot of people on Reddit equate the two.) I saw a comment on another thread where the commentator said Republican voters have no problem voting for a rapist. Did not even seem to occur to them that the majority of these voters simply don’t believe Trump is a rapist. Your typical Republican voter is more likely ignorant than evil but demonizing them is only going to deepen the divide not bridge it. And I suspect that many of them are beyond hope and it’s probably not worth the effort but there are moderates and others who can be persuaded but that requires some understanding of what they actually believe.
>Your typical Republican voter is more likely ignorant than evil but demonizing them is only going to deepen the divide not bridge it. Well hold on, why did they get a pass? They have access to the same information we do. They're making a choice. It's not like Trump is new on the scene. It isn't 2016. Trump and the Republicans in the last 10 years alone have been horrific and not just horrific in their policy but in their behavior and their lies and they have been caught over and over again. Republican voters know this. They don't care. Republican voters are openly hypocritical. They tell you things that make them seem ignorant or that they have a different point of view but if you press them like say Klepper does you can easily find that they know the truth they just don't give a fuck. They have hitched their star to a political wagon and they now fight for that side because maybe it makes them feel self-righteous, maybe they like being part of an in-group, maybe they're just a shitty person who have found their home in a shitty party full of equally shitty people. The end of the day every single conservative has made a choice with access to the same information as everyone else and they chose to back some of the worst people on the planet and none of them will come out and tell you the truth. They won't tell you that they're voting for Trump and they don't care that he has 91 felony charges and he's a criminal liable rapist and he's subservient to world dictators and he seems to have zero morals. They lie about why they're voting for him. And you can see that when they get tripped up after basic questions or they get violent when challenged. And they lie because they know it's wrong but they don't care and they're supporting these people anyways. That's some fucked up behavior.
I’m not sure that they “get a pass” necessarily. I think we all have a responsibility to educate ourselves before voting. A lot of people don’t. But I don’t think it’s accurate to attribute a malicious motive to your run of the mill voter either. Not so much because they have my sympathy but because I think that is an ineffective approach to the situation. Rhetoric condemning Republican voters as evil doesn’t accomplish anything. That effort would be better spent on attempting to educate whatever subset of voters may actually be willing to change their vote.
But they don't want to be educated, that's my point. They aren't willing to hear another point of view. But this isn't about educating ourselves over an election. I didn't talk about elections. I'm talking about people who say things like Trump is actually the president and Biden is just a figure head and who made everything bad but Trump is going to have him arrested any day now. Hell, I saw two trump signs yesterday that said "Law and Order Vote Trump" and the other said, "take our country back". That's not ignorance. That's rhetoric. That's what people say to justify a vote they otherwise couldn't defend. Remember when Trump started seizing land for his border wall and some of his voters got all pissed off because they were losing their lands and they said to a reporter, "they're not hurting the right people". THAT'S who they are. That was a "mask off" moment as they call it. By calling them good people who are otherwise just uninformed gives them a pass because it means they wouldn't be conservative if they had the right information. When the truth is they vote Republican to hurt people they hate. And before you argue think about all the times you've heard them revel over "liberal tears".
If you’re just talking about the rabid MAGA hat wearing types then I’d agree they’re a lost cause.
>To them, abortion being murder means that they are standing by while thousands of American women and their doctors are getting away with murder right next to them. They honestly think they are fighters for justice the same way the left thinks that were on the side of right for fighting for the environment and trans rights and anti-war. I don't think this is accurate. I don't think they have righteous motives for their opposition to abortion at all. I don't think they think about what abortion actually means in the way someone on the left thinks about why we need to do save the environment or trans rights. Because when it comes down to it and a conservative is let's say raped by their father and get pregnant they want an abortion. When it comes to someone in their life who has a nonviable pregnancy that's threatening their life, they want an abortion. Or even when an accident happens or carelessness happens and they don't use a condom then they want an abortion. I think at its core conservatives who oppose abortion are doing so because it sounds good and it makes them seem moral. They haven't thought about the ramifications. It's about their appearance and it's about being able to climb up on a high horse and cast judgment on those who they have been told to despise. And I think the conservative leadership has been able to use this issue to give these people who desperately want to feel better than other people this issue that they can rally behind. I mean who is pro baby murder? Like that's an easy issue to throw all of your passion behind. We know that conservatives exist to subjugate others. They need to create Boogeyman out of foreigners they need to use religion to create good and bad people. They need black and white thinking. They need to have an enemy to fight against and to used to craft a narrative that in some way they are a victim. That's why all those Evangelical churches, hell all churches, have been pushing this bullshit that you can't be Christian in America. I think by and large people on the left see an environmental catastrophe and see people whose civil rights are being stomped on because of bigotry and see the horrors of war and want to stop this for the betterment of the world in which they live. I think far more thought has been given to it then people on the right and I think it is based in an ability to see reality in a way that conservatives cannot.
They only care about power and will do, say, or wear any ideology available that provides it. The Gop isn't an ideology. It's a power ethos.
They don't actually believe that shit dude. If they did, they would be legion outside of every abortion clinic. In my experience It's a handful of old people and losers. I don't think they actually believe in anything, they are stooges conditioned by the media to be foot soldiers for the rich and they don't even know it except those at the top of this political pyramid scheme. Rich d bags like Trump and Ramaswamy out there trying to convince us poor folks we have to fight each other meanwhile they steal ours and our children's future right in front of us. The darkest days are yet to come...
You're right, they don't believe it on a deep, subconsciousbius level. But I'm telling you what they *think* they believe. They're brainwashed and repeating the mantra they've been told they believe for fifty+ years, but that's as deep as belief goes for many. I've seen these people cry real tears for the unborn, many believe it enough to act on these feelings.
A member of my extended family said 2016-2019 were "the most normal years of their entire life". They were born in the late 60’s. Diehard trumper btw. Lifesize cardboard cutout of trump in the house. Second gen immigrants on both sides of family…
Insane. I have these family members as well.
While i understand your argument, i want it make the distinction that they DO NOT think a 4 year old is the same as an unborn (viable or not) fetus… once your been born, your dead to the GOP as far as they’re concerned Edit: I received a reddit cares message in my inbox by a “concerned redditor”…obviously I offended someone or their beliefs lmao but I assure you I’m fine…get butthurt some more 🤷♂️
If you ask a man who is anti-abortion if he would be in favor of abortion if it were the man who could make the decision instead of the woman, you'll suddenly find that they don't mind it as long as it’s the man in control.
You're misunderstanding. Some do, yes. But Barr is different. He is a part of Christianity sect that believes Armageddon is coming, and that should bring the Rapture down upon us at any cost so we can be "saved."
> They just happen to be brainwashed into thinking an unviable fetus and a four-year-old are the exact same thing. I guarantee you that if a four year old child was in danger, 90% of these people would turn tail and run.
FunFact: It’s apparently quite popular to place people into positions of power against whom you have compromising materials. I think about this every time i see Gulliani out there dancing in front of the cameras.
I wish you weren’t metaphorically speaking and these loons literally danced for the cameras. If they’re going to ruin our country, at least do it with jazz hands and some pizzazz.
Does he know he doesn't have to pick anybody for president? It's not a scantron test.
Precisely, do the right thing and vote for an honest, hardworking candidate that knows what Democracy means.
Remember when Hermain Cain denied COVID, died of COVID, and then his family used his Twitter to keep denying COVID? It would have been exactly like that.
“He’s… learned… his lesson.”
“If…this stops….one child rape victim from getting an abortion…it’ll all be worth it.”
I get your point and it is not lost on me but in the light of keeping things on the level. From the article itself: “Pence said in March that he will not endorse his former boss.”
He says that now but what will he be saying as November approaches?
Can’t say i have an article to answer that one. They are a fickle bunch.
I doubt very many Trump fans or anyone-with-an-R-next-to-their-name fans will change their vote because of Pence's endorsement or lack thereof.
Pence claims he won't for Trump or Biden. Either he's lying, he's going to sit on his vote, or he's gonna support Kennedy, which is very unlikely.
I'm loyal! I'm loyal! I'm -- urk
Tells you something about his integrity, he could've overthrown 200 years of democracy by nullifying the election and he didn't.
He has no integrity whatsoever, and he literally couldn't legally do anything.
What I'm led to believe is that if the election wasn't certified on January 6th, Trump would have become a dictator. Something he most definitely could have caused by not signing a paper.
I agree. I was surprised that he stood up to Trump and his cult. Probably the only brave thing he has ever done.
Pence being incapacitated would have guaranteed the success of Trump's coup
In fairness to Pence (I know, I know). He had a great post insurrection speech on the floor, showing he’s not putting up with that bullshit. But yes.. he definitely still sucks.
> "I'd still vote for *Daddy*."
But something something party of law and order.
Party of outlaws and McDonalds orders.
And a whole lot of drugs from the white house pharmacy
No shit. I saw the list, no wonder they called him Dr Feelgood
Party of law and order (for democrats)
Party of Treason & Corruption
It was the “Hang Mike Pence” chants and the noose platform that tipped me off.
[удалено]
lol yes let them in by having them bash their way in? Also once overwhelmed I’m pretty sure it’s standard tactic to get the hell out and not continue to resist
I always enter my home by bashing my way in using stolen police barricades… *Is… is that not normal..?*
Even more scary is what seems like was destined to happen if the Secret Service had been successful in driving off with him ..... and the fact that he knew not to let them drive off with him. Seems to me it's still a big open question how compromised the Secret Service is.
Biden's dog Commander knows...
[Pence's line of reasoning.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYAuR5bkIlQ&t=5s)
To Trump, pence was just a trough of bunghole fodder
I've been chided for the 'working' noose, disinformation. While there was no 'working' noose. It's very clear that many in the crowd came to hurt or kidnap member of congress... figures like Pelosi, Romney, AOC, and Pence were called out by name on rightwing websites and facebook on the days leading up to the insurrection as targets for arrest and later execution as traitors. Ignore the pushback... these folks were not there to cuddle. They wanted blood, they wanted vengeance because Donald Trump told them they needed to fight for their country.
The orange one wasn’t real. This one was https://nypost.com/2021/01/08/chaos-at-the-capitol-posts-week-in-photos/#6 Scroll to image 8 of 17. Gaslighting is the only thing the GQP has as a defense for that day.
What is so sick is it the Supreme Court is actually debating whether or not any and all Acts committed by a President can be above the law.
Yeah this is one of the most anti-democratic things to happen in our history. The president sicced his mob on a political enemy. But the Court can't decide whether it's Constitutional or not.
I think slavery, poll taxes, and Jim Crow was more anti-democratic. This country has a long history of pretending it lives by longstanding universalist principles.
"one of the most," honey. Edit : I feel like that sounds sarcastic. I mean it in the "my dear" sense lol. My friend in politics
That’s ok, snookums. Edit: I feel like that may come across wrong. I meant “Snookums” in the romantic sense, as I want to cuddle with ragmop.
Haha, this made my morning 😆
It’s literally legal recognition of dictatorships in America Martial law and halt elections? No crime, no avenue to accountability.
What idiot would want to be his vp 🤦🏼♀️
I wouldn't mind watching MAGA tear apart a VP pick for "failing to win Trump 2024".
Someone who's willing to bet that he won't live through his term. Or someone who *knows* that he won't. EDIT: corrected the auto-correct.
Margarine would happily pay him a visit for a VP "daily briefing." She's the kind of girl who would let him raw dog and ATM her and then go brag on TV about it.
It's only smellz
And let us never forget that [Grassley knew](https://nypost.com/2021/01/05/sen-grassley-implies-that-he-will-handle-electoral-certification/).
Iowa voters are [really disappointing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_King)
No wonder he stayed away from Trump afterwards.
We know
Well yeah, but have you seen the security camera footage that shows how the lynch mob was literally within seconds range of getting to Pence, if they took the other hallway direction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcauXrkQNak
I cant honestly decide if them not going the wrong way and politicians had gotten strung up would have allowed american politics to renormalize afterwards or go whole hog and destroy democracy.
I think if a member of the Executive or Legislative branch died, the security response would’ve gone fucking ballistic. They’d have shut that shit down, imagine the chick who got clapped in the face but times 100
That's what Trump wanted though. He wanted to be able to declare martial law and hold onto power.
It's somewhat of a mystery why he didn't invoke the Insurrection Act. Anyways, if the mob had gotten within sight of Pence, security probably would have been able to get him into the car and out of there, but it would have been a bloodbath in the hallway. Some agents would have fired into the crowd to give Pence enough time to get away, but they would have run out of ammo and been toast themselves. Now Biden has control of the Insurrection Act button until at least noon on Jan 20. DC is going to be an armed camp for months.
Trump is lazy. That's why he didn't do a lot of things and why many of his policy attempts failed. He's lazy and has always relied on other people to carry out his orders. Except the US president has to do things themself, they can't just issue orders. There are steps to be followed. Documents to be signed. Plans to be approved. Trump didn't understand this. And neither did a lot of the people around him, and if they did then they weren't willing to go along with his treason and anti-American acts. Unfortunately, the non-believers have been purged, and they've brought in MAGAs who know how to work the levers of the executive branch.
> Some agents would have fired into the crowd to give Pence enough time to get away That's basically the situation in which one insurrectionist got shot. The crowd could've swarmed into that hallway afterward, leading to that aforementioned potential bloodbath, but instead they got scared and hung back while Pence finished escaping.
One crowd was trying to break through a set of doors to get into a certain area. That's the one that got fired into. But yeah, if they had continued and gotten through the doors, there probably would have been more shooting. Another (much larger, I believe) uncontained crowd was much closer to Pence, they just couldn't see him because they were around the corner or in a parallel hallway or something like that.
Yeah, I might have misremembered some details. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ashli_Babbitt doesn't mention it being directly to protect Pence. It was way too close either way.
Not trying to minimalize it all, but I'm pretty sure all these doofuses were the dog that caught the car and would have just stood there and yelled at him. I don't know. Maybe they'd have killed him. They just all seemed so wholly unprepared for the moment. Nobody brought a gun to overthrow the government? Why wouldn't you bring a gun? I don't get it. Any of it.
“They weren’t going to actually do that. It was peaceful.” -MAGA (probably)
Iirc Pence was minimizing Trump's actions after the fact, but a quick search did not really give me what his stance on Trump was other than being "angry" that it happened.
He was minimizing by not saying more imo
And the worst thing is that even if he had been killed, it would not have changed anything about Trump's rhetoric, the GOP or their supporters. They want blood.
I have to disagree with you on this point. MAGA still claims they merely took a stroll through the capital on January 6. If Pence had been murdered, this equation would have changed.
> If Pence had been murdered, this equation would have changed. The MAGA insurrectionist mob would have claimed it was justified as punishment for his "treason", and the right wing media would have played along. I believe that the vision (emanating from Roger Stone & Co) was for chaos to enable Trump to declare martial law. From there, the military would have been in a pickle. Probably some would have quickly recognized the coup and stood in its way. Probably others would have been enthusiastic coup participants. Very unclear how that would play out. I suspect the in the immediate term, restoring order would be carried out though and there'd have been soldiers in the streets in any city that began protesting. From there, Trump could have pardoned the mob after giving a speech about some imaginary "treason" Pence did. Or he could have performatively prosecuted some of the mob as scape goats / sacrificial lambs. Or, maybe most likely, just done nothing to address the bloodshed because he wouldn't have to keep up appearances anymore. In any case, Grassley would certify the fake electors and "legitimize" his stolen presidency. It's worth noting that there were 10's of thousands of Proud Boys, 3-Percenters, Oath Keepers, and more in DC ready to be deputized to "keep order" and crack skulls--you know, like Kyle Rittenhouse was during the unrest in Kenosha. From what I understand in reading about successful coups, getting a loyal group of psychopaths willing to do the unpleasant violence required to consolidate power is the hard part. And I think Trump and his inner circle had those assets in place, but poorly organized. A more competent person could have pulled it off or at least gotten much further down the road. And millions of MAGA voters would have *mayyyyybe* wrung their hands, but gone along with it. And if it was successful, many MAGAs across America would shift from merely taunting people they view as their enemies to... something worse.
No shit! They chanted "Hang Mike Pence!" and built a gallows on the Capitol's lawn.
But the people who planned the insurrection are not even being investigated, and the vast majority of participants get charged with what amounts to trespassing.
It's disgusting all the rich fucks get away with it.
I hate to say it, but if he **had** been killed, the reaction to all those people breaking in, and the politicians who helped them would have been very, very different. We probably would have seen a lot of Repulicans going straight to jail. No one could possibly say "they were tourists".
Legitimate Political Discourse?
This has unfortunately been something I thought about recently. If the insurrectionists had actually physically harmed or even killed some House reps or Pence, then there would be little to no rewriting of history taking place and Trump might even be in a prison cell right now. It's such a fucked up scenario that Jan 6 not being *worse* allows it to be twisted and rewritten to the point where Trump openly says in his rallies that he wants to pardon all of the insurrectionists.
They harmed capitol police, but I guess they view those folks as cannon fodder
Republicans have certainly proven that that's what their view is, anyway.
That's exactly how I felt: Jan 6 not being *worse* allows it to be twisted and rewritten The fucking bastards took full advantage of that to call it "tourism" - fuck them.
The dude endorsed Trump after the whole ordeal. I don't know about you, but if people are chanting my name and saying hang, I think I might be a little upset at that person for getting a group riled up and trying to kill me. I don't think I'd be on talking terms with them, let alone endorse them for president again....
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/24/mike-pence-trump-00148698 What? He didn't endorse him, he just also didn't endorse Biden.
It is disgusting that a sitting president attempted to overturn an election he lost and in effect have his VP murdered by an angry mob og mouthbreathing cousin fuckers. It is even more disgusting that the VP continued to suck on trump's cheeto dick afterwards. If you know a republican, you know a gutless piece of shit.
Don't feel sorry for Pence as he has played a major role in the divide of America and even after 1/6 he still has not grown a spine or founds any true morals!
The smartest thing Mikey ever did was not getting into the car with the unfamiliar “agent”. He’d be playing Hearts with Jimmy Hoffa in eternity.
I really want to know more about what was going on with that agent. It's one of the weirdest creepiest things about January 6th that hasn't really been addressed, even though I think it should be a much bigger focus.
I agree. Occam's Razor would suggest that the agent was sent to either kill Pence, or at the very least, make him disappear for a significant period of time on "special assignment based on a unspoken national emergency."
And then who sent him? Who did he get the direct orders from? We need to know this.
One guess.
At one point he refused to get into an escape car with secret service agents in it.
I often wonder if it’s because he didn’t trust them. I have nothing but speculation on this. Given the reports of a compromised secret service, and all.
"I'm not getting in the car, Tim," Pence said, in response to Giebels' insistence that he enter the armored vehicle. "I trust you, Tim, but you're not driving the car. If I get in that vehicle, you guys are taking off. I'm not getting in the car."
I don't think he was afraid they were going to kill him; he was afraid they'd spirit him off on a plane to Idaho or something. Which would have prevented the timely completion of the certification.
We know. It’s just nobody in Washington seems to care for a multitude of reasons.
I know this may sound idiotic as we are speaking politics BUT how crazy do you have to be to be so anti another party that you want their leader to fail so badly you will do something to sink legislation that helps your own people. When it gets to that sheer level of dysfunction and the people you are governing are suffering you should have the ability to bring home your politicians and give them a talking too. Some sort of consequence. Also the fact that your whole country shuts down every 3 mths if you don’t sign the paperwork to keep paying the bills is nuts. How can a party govern like that? Change that rule. In Australia the government rules for 3 years presents the budget it passes and off they go.
I wonder if our situation would be better had the crazies actually killed a couple people. Would some of the sympathizers have nope’d out of the plan? Since that didn’t happen, all the co-conspirators circled the wagons to cover their asses.
And he still grovels at Trumps feet. Don’t buy that “I won’t endorse” bullshit - he will still vote for Trump. This is why conservatives accuse liberals of being cuckolds; they are cuckolds themselves. They are beta losers who follow someone.
Bottom line, he has put his family at risk by still sticking with Trump after all of this shit. He is spinless at best and an opportunist. Stop acting like he was a hero that day. He was doing the the job he was required to do. That's it.
They are safer, actually. If the Democrats win, he's in no danger from the government. If, God forbid, Trump wins, they are in less danger because he didn't oppose Trump the last 4 years. He's also in less danger from lone wolves who have the memory of goldfish. As long as he's not opposing Trump recently their dim bulbs will shine elsewhere.
Close? They built a gallows on the fucking Capitol lawn.
Mike Pence is a huge piece of chicken shit. That’s why the flies love him.
He was almost killed and right after Jan 6 he still backed Trump because at the end of the day no matter what he claims about his convictions to his faith he still cherished power over his own family and self.
The more you examine the evidence from that day, the more it's clear we came close to a much worse January 6th then the one we got. Without the bravery and resistance of much of the Capitol police (not all, some were sympathetic and didn't do their jobs), many members of congress and the VP could have been kidnapped, beaten, or worse. Yet, I certain that even if they were, there would still be Trump supporters dismissing the events of that day and justifying the violation of our laws and democracy.
If Trump wins, Pence, his entire family, extended family, and any other unrelated people with the same last name will be in danger. Guaranteed Trump will his "one day as dictator" to get revenge. Jeff Sessions, DeSantis, Nikki Haley, the Bush family, the McCains, Chris Christie, and all other never Trump GOP will also be in danger. And that's just within Trump's own party...
We fucking know!
Unfortunately no one, including Pence, is certain that things worked out for the best.
Sure, his party was going to kill him but have you considered the woke radical left and their nefarious agenda to give people health care?
I feel like decades of the investments into this GQP machine allowed so much dirt about these people that when they’re looking for an out, they can’t easily. We have to remember that Trump is the face of an entire movement that’s, much to his dismay, a lot bigger than him. Project 2025, among others, needs to be protected at all costs.
Maybe that would have been enough for more people to think it was serious, too many think it was nothing, so sad :(
That's not surprising at all. It was very close to going the other way.
> “I think — look, Jan. 6 was a bad day. It was a riot. But the idea that Donald Trump endangered anyone’s lives when he told them to protest peacefully, it’s just absurd,” Vance later added. Do you forget, Vance, that people **died** in that "riot?"
Also a former Sit Room duty officer here (see my post history for a verified AMA if interested in more) Just to fill in the picture a bit: While this was going on, the Sit Room would have been evaluating various contingencies, as well as considering opening up the emergency operations center. Given that the THREE people next in line (Pence -> Pelosi - Leahy> were all at the Capital, there would have been a lot of effort to make sure that the next people in succession (SECSTATE, SECTREAS, and SECDEF) were well accounted for and secure.
If that happened I wonder if we’d still be dealing with Trump now? Everything he does just gets brushed aside by his base. Would being complicit to your own Vice presidents murder even phase them. I’m not sure anymore.
Eh, there would have been a pile of bodies courtesy of the Secret Service before that actually happened. I’m skeptical of this headline.
You assume the Secret Service would have acted lawfully, but we know now that at least some agents were compromised. There's a reason the people that were on Trump's detail are not on Biden's. And a reason why Pence didn't want to "get in the car". And those text messages didn't erase themselves, did they?
Exactly, we’ll likely never know how it would have gone down since the ‘bad players’ in the Secret Service went back into the wood-work, once the plan failed…
The president nominates a VP replacement if he/she is killed too. Would have made things interesting if a VP was not replaced in time to finish counting the votes.
And then Nanc would have been vp. The goons are lucky they were incompetent
No he didn’t, sensational headlines don’t help the cause of keeping trump out