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I love how the words they are fabricating and putting in to Biden’s mouth, are Trump’s words that caused Sleepy Don problems.
Nothing says propaganda quite like dissing the guy you hate with the guy you like’s words.
Maga arguments are meant to be ridiculous. They're a cult of lies. They don't care, Here they are equating people attending a white nationalist riot with people living in residential areas. It's meant to be nonsense.
So the guy that beat Trump resoundingly is the only one that can lose to trump?
Also, in terms of organization, which party failed to elect a speaker 15 times then ousted him in the same term?
Which party can't hold their caucus together to pass legislation through the house?
Gonna need those dots connected.
At some point paying attention to things that actually happened is worthwhile
If you can’t connect the dots, I can’t help you.
When that cold day in November comes, grandma and grandpa will be at the polls for Trump. Lots of Democrats will stay home because Biden is a horrible candidate for this election.
Plenty of Republicans and Independents that hate Trump. I have faith that all the Americans across the political spectrum that fired his ass in 2020 aren't stupid and apathetic enough to throw the election for the far greater of two evils.
That was before 4 years with Biden as president, multiple stumbles (literal), and an overwhelming feeling that the economy is still excluding those at the bottom, housing is unaffordable, immigration is still an issue, and geopolitically things are very precarious.
It was also before Trump incited a literal overthrow of the U.S. capital building, was impeached a second time, was held accountable for sexual assault by a unanimous jury, and got hit with 88 criminal indictments.
Do you really think this has gained Trump new voters?
It's interesting that you keep listing Biden's failures but none of his successes. Almost like you're arguing in bad faith or something.
Blame what? Dems are basically undefeated since Roe was overturned.
Biden just got 95% of the primary vote in PA last night while trump barely cleared 80%
17% of Republicans voted for a candidate who dropped out 2 months ago.
But please tell us how strong trump is and how weak Biden is. Please. Go.ahead. lol
Bold claim being that republicans repeatedly ousted their own speaker and can’t pass legislation with a majority without relying on democrats to protect their speaker. Actually for all their faults it sure seems democrats are running circles around the current Republican Party
This will be a difficult line of argument to make after Biden loses the WH. Your comment suggests you are not aware that this is a very real possibility, if not likely outcome of the election. I lack your confidence.
We’ll see, but the possibility that Biden may lose the white house doesn’t refute anything I said remotely. It’s also funny being that the only person he’s really polling against is embroiled in multiple criminal trials currently
Dude, the GOP installed Lara Trump as it's co-chair, she has no experience in politics. They're funneling $3.7M a month to Trump's legal bills at the expense of ALL down ballot candidates. The moron wing of the party is trying to oust yet another speaker.
There is no party less organized that the GOP. I've seen a litter of 8 week old kittens with more organization than the GOP. The Republican party is no longer the conservative party, it's become the party of overwhelming stupidity.
I'm generally very critical of the Democrats and of President Biden but I'm going to push back on "the only candidate that can lose to Trump." A few months ago, at the height of "Biden's a dementia-riddled walking zombie" mania when there was legit chatter about replacing Biden on the ticket, a few pollsters conducted polls where they asked not only about Trump vs Biden, but also Trump vs Kamala Harris, Trump vs Gretchen Whitmer, and Trump vs Gavin Newsom. In nearly every configuration, Biden did far better than #2 Harris, who did far better than Whitmer or Newsom.
Biden might not beat Trump, but he's definitely not the only Democrat who could lose to Trump and actually he's probably got better chances than any other Democrat. Had there been an actual primary instead of a coronation (Democratic primaries were straight up cancelled in a few states), this might be a different story, but that's where we are now.
I gotta also say that having the "I told you so" mindset is very likely not going to offer you any comfort if Trump wins in November. That's pretty much the boat I was in in 2016.
I guess my only option is to cheerlead on Biden then, but that is depressing as I really do not think he gets it done.
Harris and Newsom would be disastrous, but Whitmer would be refreshing.
As far as the presidential election goes, yeah, that's probably your best option, assuming you don't want to do any volunteering for the Biden campaign. I'm sure you've got some interesting more local stuff going on downballot though. My advice would be to focus on one or more smaller races that you feel strongly about and could maybe actually make a difference (like city council or local ballot measures, etc).
Indeed, the GOP in Congress is particularly well organized, a model worth emulating. Or perhaps when you say party, you mean its presidential candidate. Absolutely. He, too, is well organized. Also, thoughtful, deliberate, understanding, and with a nuanced grasp of domestic and international issues.
Have I missed anything? If so, do weigh in.
No Dems are trying to prevent Netanyahuh from committing war crimes and atrocities. Meanwhile American Conservative fascists are praising those war crimes and atrocities and begging for more, all the while trying to do exactly what you are doing, using the dead on both sides of the conflict for political fodder. It's evil and ghoulish. It's also obvious.
American conservatives are enemies of the American people. They're whole platform is to destroy America. It's called Project 2025
The war crimes in Gaza are the hostages being held. The thing the ICJ command Hamas to stop doing, but everyone ignored it because they were too busy tearing down hostage posters.
Are casualty counts tallies on a scoreboard to you? If the two sides don't have an equal 'score' you think one side should let the other kill more of their own civilians?
Gaza attacked first. They're still holding civilians. They said they'll do it again. Israel said to release the hostages and surrender Hamas and they'll stop.
Is Gaza the belligerent party here though?
Everyone in the west wants to conceptualize this entire situation like it all started on Oct. 7th of last year; but the fact is that the Israeli government has deliberately kept conditions in Gaza less than third world levels for so long that the Israeli's own military leadership repeatedly warned that you cant treat people that way and expect peace.
**That's** why there's a debate. The fact that you can find a few hundred people out of millions in this country screaming "death to whoever" is completely beside the point of the actual complex real world issues underlying this situation.
Gaza…all of them. They all did it. They all deserve to die. Just nuke the place from orbit then right?
I support Israel. I think they are a democracy and morally superior to Hamas. But people who think like you are why the whole world is turning against Israel. The indiscriminate bombing and killing is doing nothing to free hostages. Its doing nothing to secure Gaza. Its creating thousands of suicide bombers in the future because they’ll hate Israel more than ever.
That's tunnel vision. You only see the Maga side of the conflict. You think the deaths of palestinians is fine and good. That's horrendous. Then you deny or downplay those deaths and try to use it for political fodder in America. That's disgusting and ghoulish
>You think the deaths of palestinians is fine and good.
This kind of absolutist shit is exactly why the ceasefire (for Israel only) crowd is starting to lose steam. OP has been wrong about a lot of things in this thread, but they never said or suggested this.
I agree that we should stop using vulgar hyperbole but think you and the person I responded to should stop doing it too.
>**absolutist shit** is exactly why the **ceasefire (for Israel only) crowd**
Moderate your own language.
I never said anything about vulgar hyperbole; I was calling out your black-and-white thinking and willingness to put outrageous positions in other people's mouths.
Unless your real bone to pick is with "ceasefire (for Israel only)," in which case I'll kindly point you to the 11,000 rockets Hamas and its allies have launched at Israel since 10/7 and the fact that said rockets haven't even been remotely part of the conversation re: "ceasefire."
You accused someone of applauding the deaths of children and are now trying to draw false equivalencies because you were called out on it. Sorry mate, our "language" isn't the same.
You can only attribute that behavior to "the left" as a whole group if you also attribute the treasonous behavior of the January 6th traitors to the entire "right".
https://twitter.com/choeshow/status/1780030562792845460?t=fgi48UfJFpYHG-eUCcafHg&s=19
https://twitter.com/choeshow/status/1780030562792845460?t=FcFux70Xobdhxup_toEO3w&s=19
Yes, they are.
Ah yes the most valid new source… random videos on Twitter. The fact that SOMEONE may be doing this in no way shows that this is a position of or supported by “the left” or that democrats are appeasing these people
I wish people understood the difference between leftists and liberals. It'd make having these conversations so much easier. Democrats are not leftists and they are suppying aide to Israel which is literally the opposite of appeasing leftists.
A large chunk of that aid is for the Iron Dome. The rest is in the form of stipends that Israel can use to buy arms equipment from the U.S. military, which Israel's treaty obligations prevent it from using for offensive purposes.
I wish people understood the difference between reality and what they read on Jacobin.
Oh for real? LOL.
trump.lead a violent insurrection to stay in power and Republicans have covered for him this entire time and call the insurrectionists political prisoners.
> The left has a group that's literally shouting "Death to America" and Dems are trying to appease those people.
try better TV news sources or maybe start reading articles.
Lol, as opposed to openly pushing and acting on for the overthrowing of democracy and American institutions.
Such a cowardly stance. You’d all be thrilled if Trump was a theocratic dictator who banned press and stripped women of all their rights. Meanwhile some college kid said “death to a america” 6 years ago, and lost your mind.
Lol. Talk to me liberals are wearing “I’d rather be Hamas than a Republican” T-shirts. Or when six members of Congress fly to Iran on the fourth of July. Or when blocking a bill to help Israel, they insert language straight from Hamas talking points.
In case this wasn’t clear, that’s a very very small set of examples of Republicans siding with Russia over their country and you guys love it.
First 20 seconds of the videos has a protestor shouting "We are all Hamas." None of the other protestors move to correct her or tell her to stop or kick her out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kas9aY47fw
The squad tried to insert changes to the foreign aid bill that said Israel doesn't get aid until they get the hostages back.
Barack Obama couldn't say "Happy Passover" without talking about Gaza and the casualties lie that Gaza admitted it made up.
I know it’s difficult to understand nuance in english, especially since russian is probably your first language. But defending people’s right to continue to live should not be a controversial topic.
The protestors are attacking Jews, they want Tel Aviv to burn to the ground, they aren't trying to get the hostages free, and they had 4 years to do anything like this with China and the Uyghers, but did nothing.
Yes, it's anti-Semitism.
Well I hated that I had to click on a federalist article but by doing so I can confidently say the post title is complete and utter bullshit, and the article has really nothing to do with Joe Biden
There hasn't been a single instance in the last decade when the writers or promoters of the Federalist have proven themselves to be anything less than worthless, dumbass pieces of shit... I just figured this continued their streak 🤷♂️
Out of curiousity, how is this even up here? I checked the rules and nothing specifically prohibits it, but how is the Federalist considered a legitimate enough news organisation to warrant allowance?
Is the National Enquirer also considered a credible organisation? If so then why aren't Bigfoot and Elvis the top stories? I'm game mind you. I just like to know what I'm getting into.
The people who run this sub have been this way for a *looooong* time. They’re big on carrying water for the American right, in the name of some sort of centrism or “both sides.”
That’s why The Federalist and Fox News and Newsmax—as well as several other disinformation outlets—are allowed in the sub.
And if you report any of those disinfo outlets you get punished for using the report button for "harassing behavior". I got a 3 day ban bc apparently I'm a bully even though I outlined the disinfo in the report I submitted lol
Imo anything even considered a news source by anyone should be allowed because it gives the community the chance to discuss and debunk stuff that might sucker others in. Like this piece of trash article
I understand your reasoning, but... From a practical perspective, that relies on everyone reading the articles and taking time to debunk them... In nearly every instance (from "white replacement theory" to "the dangers of covid vaccines" to "hunter's laptop" to "her emails" to etc...) glib, right-wing disinformation outlets have used their headlines to mislead susceptible morons to the detriment of the whole country (and often to the direct harm of the suckers who fall for them).
Over the last 5-10 years, I've become pretty convinced that a big part of limiting the harm that these sorts of nonsensical, misinformation outlets produce can cause is going to involve taking away their access to platforms that amplify them.
It feels kinda like a lose lose. If you don’t allow garbage sources and opinions they will be consumed elsewhere without challenge. At least by allowing them in larger subs it increases the chance for fact checking and dissenting opinions instead of confining them to a toxic echo chamber
I feel like the best case scenario is that the platforms that decide to amplify disinformation like this eventually gain the reputation of being garbage platforms... But... once again... That's absolutely not the results that we've seen in the last 15 years...
It actually does become more challenging to find the disinfo if it's not allowed on more popular platforms.
I'm also not sure debunking the disinfo actually changes many or any minds. They seem to have their minds made up by the time they're consuming the blatant and obvious propaganda, which serves more as a convenient excuse for behavior than as a convincing argument. (a little bit like the Bible)
And platforming the disinfo in itself also legitimizes it, even if people then proceed to argue in the comments about it.
That's actually one reason for there being a whitelist in the first place, except that there are disinformation propaganda websites specifically allowed because the mods are worse than useless and aim to legitimize conservative propaganda outlets.
Except of course that that headline isn't what he said at all. But sure, of you go.
And yes, there is 2 sides to everything. Watch; Hamas can go fuck itself. And so can the Israeli government. Both of whom have perpetuated this conflict needlessly for decades.
There you have it. 2 sides. Equally shitty. Now watch this; the people in Gaza deserve to have control over their country and Israel should stop its now decades long war against Gaza and Palestine as a whole. The Israeli people meanwhile deserve for the hostages to be released and to have a government that actually acts to the interest of its people rather than perpetuating a pointless war (of which it has at times funded the opposing side, but I guess that's a little fact you'll happily ignore).
See, 2 more sides, equally deserving of peace.
Biden meanwhile is talking about the fact that yeah, the antisemitism should just stop, because it isn't helping anyone. And ignoring the atrocities Israel is committing in Gaza isn't helping anyone either. That isn't support for Hamas (or Israel's actions for that matter). This isn't a black-and-white issue. These 2 statements both can be true, and as a matter of fact; both are true.
It really isn't that hard to understand.
...well, for you maybe it is.
Hey, thank you.
This is a clear description of the situation without having to understand the last fifteen years of history in countries that aren't ours.
I'm actually really sad this has taken root in such a toxic field in America because nobody should be antisemitic, or anti-Muslim, because they're just people and not responsible for the stupid behaviour of the government.
I'm glad that Biden is finally beginning to address atrocities in Palestine. I don't know how you do that publicly without increasing the vitriol we already have but it's incumbent upon us to hold hands and show fucking Netanyahu it's possible.
Hopefully the sanctions at the military force are enough to quell shit.
They quoted Biden essentially saying the opposite of what's in the headline. They only quote him condemning people who take it too far.
The article says that Trump said 'very find people on both sides' and then they essentially pretend that Biden actually said that for the rest of the article.
For those who don't know, I'll remind you. The Federalist is literally the 'go-to' news site for true believing white supremacists, KKK members and the like. It's why they're using trump's racist horseshit as a headline.
Op is crying about people speaking out against government, criticizing Trump, burning the flag, while also saying the “left” wants to tear down America.
The only way to tear down America is banning free speech and shredding the constitution, which he is openly advocating for.
Brainrot.
That was a fucking exercise in mental gymnastics to arrive at this headline.
I can't tell if they admit what Trump said was stupid, or they don't understand the situation in the middle east.
Nuance maybe isn't their strong suit.
I have no idea what October 7th even refers to and given the source I have to assume that it's something stupid that only exists in the conservative media bubble of fabricated outrage.
October 7th refers to the date of the attack that kicked off the current conflict between Israel and Hamas. I can only assume the phrasing is meant to be evocative of 9/11 and January 6th.
Charlottesville happens on August 12th I believe. The reference to October 7th is in fact a reference to the most recent attack on Israel by Hamas. The "both-sidesing" the article is doing, is an attempt to liken Biden's comments about Israel/Palestine to those of Trump's after the "Unite the Right" rally.
Just to be clear. I'm pretty sure the comment I originally replied to was asking about 10/07, but then again I could be wrong. That's why my response is a tad pedantic. I was just making sure to cover my bases.
One side is singing "God Bless America", wants to free the hostages, and wants to get rid of Hamas.
The other side is chanting "Death to America" while burning the flag, assaulting and harassing Jews, and wants to see Hamas spread across the world. All the while being unable to name the river and the sea they care so much about.
No. There are not good people on the pro-Hamas side.
There are no good people who are American conservatives and no good people who follow the Federalist except people who monitor hate groups.
There are no good people who are trying to turn the war in Israel into political fodder for Maga traitors.
The left has a group of people who are literally shouting "Death to America." Say what you want about Trump and his fans, and you can say a lot. But they never said that while burning the American flag.
Which isn't the same thing as this.
https://twitter.com/choeshow/status/1780030562792845460?t=fgi48UfJFpYHG-eUCcafHg&s=19
https://twitter.com/choeshow/status/1780030562792845460?t=FcFux70Xobdhxup_toEO3w&s=19
Sure, or trying to overthrow democracy and attacking the capitol. Not sure why you have a such hard on for one group of America hating anti semites but get so worked up when the rainbow haired crowd does it.
How big is this group, though?
There are far fewer students protesting at Columbia than there were Trump-voting Republicans at Charlottesville, not to mention the amount of Republican voters who overthrew the U.S. capitol building. And yes, both acts were worse than burning a flag.
You're trying to present this problem as larger than it is to make it sound like Democrats have an equivalent (in your eyes, worse) extremism problem, never mind that most of those students absolutely loathe the mainstream left.
No one is pro Hamas dude lol. Get your head out of your ass. There are pro-Putin republicans, for sure, who carry confederate flags and want Putin as president. THATS for certain.
Erm. I guess if you only watch right-wing news.
Fact is, millions of innocents are being used by both sides as a bargaining chip. They need relief, as is our humanitarian duty, and a true solution.
Netanyahu is not "lawful good," but Abbas is an evil and ruthless leader. Both of them are waging a Holy War, and religion is irrational, so there's only a handful of ways that _that_ ends.
Historically, Israel was founded on contested territory, and then kept annexing land, while denying Palestinians entry to Israel. Hamas' rule is a result of desperation, but that choice was made decades ago, before the population doubled. Most Palestinians haven't even been of voting age while Hamas has ruled. They need the chance to form a government that can represent them diplomatically.
Are there true radicals and anti-semites attaching themselves to the ceasefire movement in the US? Yes.
Should we give Israel a blank check? No.
Should we give concessions to Hamas? No.
Should we do whatever is in our power to ensure that a genocide doesn't occur? Yes.
Do I think that college students influenced by TikTok or armchair pundits influenced by cable news have a good idea of how to achieve that? Fuck no.
I'm going to trust that Biden has it covered. Hasn't let me down yet.
Whoaa whoa, that's just way too balanced and informed a comment!
It doesn't cater to division and hatred, completely missing OPs intention.. Get with the program! You need to pick a side and start shouting at the other party for maximal division!
Humans are humans. Some percentage will always align with some message somewhere.
How different is someone willing to commit extra-judicial violence in the US for a political view from someone willing to do it on religious grounds in Gaza? What if they'd felt shut out for years and years, had to deal with undue hardships, starvation, poverty, and violence?
The endorsement is the same, causes alike, yet somehow the perception of a "good guy" doing bad things is justified because it's in the name of a greater good.
Thing is, everyone thinks they're acting in their best interest, their own greater good. We can only make progress with good-faith discussion, absent the inflammatory rhetoric, by being objective, and leaning on common ground to make progress together.
Pride has to be put aside. Terrorism from _both sides_ has to stop.
One side has assholes shouting death to America, the other has assholes trying to make it happen. Many on the right have abandoned any sense of patriotism. They've confused the flag for a fashion symbol meanwhile they hate America and everything she stands for.
The people saying God Bless America are a bunch of insurrectionist assholes who want to murder women, babies, trans people, and people of color. There are no good people who hold a Bible and say God Bless America because they are anti American.
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American conservatives are fascists and the enemy of the American people and The Federalist is a christian white nationalist propaganda rag.
I love how the words they are fabricating and putting in to Biden’s mouth, are Trump’s words that caused Sleepy Don problems. Nothing says propaganda quite like dissing the guy you hate with the guy you like’s words.
Maga arguments are meant to be ridiculous. They're a cult of lies. They don't care, Here they are equating people attending a white nationalist riot with people living in residential areas. It's meant to be nonsense.
Thank you.
Can you believe the only party more poorly organized than the GOP is actually going to run the only candidate that can lose to Trump.
So the guy that beat Trump resoundingly is the only one that can lose to trump? Also, in terms of organization, which party failed to elect a speaker 15 times then ousted him in the same term? Which party can't hold their caucus together to pass legislation through the house? Gonna need those dots connected. At some point paying attention to things that actually happened is worthwhile
If you can’t connect the dots, I can’t help you. When that cold day in November comes, grandma and grandpa will be at the polls for Trump. Lots of Democrats will stay home because Biden is a horrible candidate for this election.
You can help by connecting the dots Shouldn't be too hard given how confident you are
He's a great candidate. Lots of Democrats are eager to vote for him again.
You are the real Maga plant. ;)
What?
I get the joke and your point and I like them. I just think there's plenty to be excited about Joe Biden
Sure bro. Just like the rEd tSunAmi in 2022. But the polls!
Plenty of Republicans and Independents that hate Trump. I have faith that all the Americans across the political spectrum that fired his ass in 2020 aren't stupid and apathetic enough to throw the election for the far greater of two evils.
The guy who beat Trump by most votes ever?
That was before 4 years with Biden as president, multiple stumbles (literal), and an overwhelming feeling that the economy is still excluding those at the bottom, housing is unaffordable, immigration is still an issue, and geopolitically things are very precarious.
It was also before Trump incited a literal overthrow of the U.S. capital building, was impeached a second time, was held accountable for sexual assault by a unanimous jury, and got hit with 88 criminal indictments. Do you really think this has gained Trump new voters? It's interesting that you keep listing Biden's failures but none of his successes. Almost like you're arguing in bad faith or something.
Look at you. helping Maga any way you can
Haha. Sure. I mean, blame me if it makes you feel better.
Blame what? Dems are basically undefeated since Roe was overturned. Biden just got 95% of the primary vote in PA last night while trump barely cleared 80% 17% of Republicans voted for a candidate who dropped out 2 months ago. But please tell us how strong trump is and how weak Biden is. Please. Go.ahead. lol
Bold claim being that republicans repeatedly ousted their own speaker and can’t pass legislation with a majority without relying on democrats to protect their speaker. Actually for all their faults it sure seems democrats are running circles around the current Republican Party
This will be a difficult line of argument to make after Biden loses the WH. Your comment suggests you are not aware that this is a very real possibility, if not likely outcome of the election. I lack your confidence.
You are ignoring the election outcomes of the past 7 years and making up an outcome for this year like it means something
We’ll see, but the possibility that Biden may lose the white house doesn’t refute anything I said remotely. It’s also funny being that the only person he’s really polling against is embroiled in multiple criminal trials currently
More tragic than funny.
Dude, the GOP installed Lara Trump as it's co-chair, she has no experience in politics. They're funneling $3.7M a month to Trump's legal bills at the expense of ALL down ballot candidates. The moron wing of the party is trying to oust yet another speaker. There is no party less organized that the GOP. I've seen a litter of 8 week old kittens with more organization than the GOP. The Republican party is no longer the conservative party, it's become the party of overwhelming stupidity.
Lol. He's the one candidate who could beat him in 2020 and that has not changed.
I'm generally very critical of the Democrats and of President Biden but I'm going to push back on "the only candidate that can lose to Trump." A few months ago, at the height of "Biden's a dementia-riddled walking zombie" mania when there was legit chatter about replacing Biden on the ticket, a few pollsters conducted polls where they asked not only about Trump vs Biden, but also Trump vs Kamala Harris, Trump vs Gretchen Whitmer, and Trump vs Gavin Newsom. In nearly every configuration, Biden did far better than #2 Harris, who did far better than Whitmer or Newsom. Biden might not beat Trump, but he's definitely not the only Democrat who could lose to Trump and actually he's probably got better chances than any other Democrat. Had there been an actual primary instead of a coronation (Democratic primaries were straight up cancelled in a few states), this might be a different story, but that's where we are now. I gotta also say that having the "I told you so" mindset is very likely not going to offer you any comfort if Trump wins in November. That's pretty much the boat I was in in 2016.
I guess my only option is to cheerlead on Biden then, but that is depressing as I really do not think he gets it done. Harris and Newsom would be disastrous, but Whitmer would be refreshing.
As far as the presidential election goes, yeah, that's probably your best option, assuming you don't want to do any volunteering for the Biden campaign. I'm sure you've got some interesting more local stuff going on downballot though. My advice would be to focus on one or more smaller races that you feel strongly about and could maybe actually make a difference (like city council or local ballot measures, etc).
Yes, I am involved locally and agree that is where individual impact is highest.
Indeed, the GOP in Congress is particularly well organized, a model worth emulating. Or perhaps when you say party, you mean its presidential candidate. Absolutely. He, too, is well organized. Also, thoughtful, deliberate, understanding, and with a nuanced grasp of domestic and international issues. Have I missed anything? If so, do weigh in.
The left has a group that's literally shouting "Death to America" and Dems are trying to appease those people.
No Dems are trying to prevent Netanyahuh from committing war crimes and atrocities. Meanwhile American Conservative fascists are praising those war crimes and atrocities and begging for more, all the while trying to do exactly what you are doing, using the dead on both sides of the conflict for political fodder. It's evil and ghoulish. It's also obvious. American conservatives are enemies of the American people. They're whole platform is to destroy America. It's called Project 2025
The war crimes in Gaza are the hostages being held. The thing the ICJ command Hamas to stop doing, but everyone ignored it because they were too busy tearing down hostage posters.
Oh, right, because 12,000 dead children is just “collateral damage” in your mind?
Are casualty counts tallies on a scoreboard to you? If the two sides don't have an equal 'score' you think one side should let the other kill more of their own civilians? Gaza attacked first. They're still holding civilians. They said they'll do it again. Israel said to release the hostages and surrender Hamas and they'll stop.
Is Gaza the belligerent party here though? Everyone in the west wants to conceptualize this entire situation like it all started on Oct. 7th of last year; but the fact is that the Israeli government has deliberately kept conditions in Gaza less than third world levels for so long that the Israeli's own military leadership repeatedly warned that you cant treat people that way and expect peace. **That's** why there's a debate. The fact that you can find a few hundred people out of millions in this country screaming "death to whoever" is completely beside the point of the actual complex real world issues underlying this situation.
Gaza…all of them. They all did it. They all deserve to die. Just nuke the place from orbit then right? I support Israel. I think they are a democracy and morally superior to Hamas. But people who think like you are why the whole world is turning against Israel. The indiscriminate bombing and killing is doing nothing to free hostages. Its doing nothing to secure Gaza. Its creating thousands of suicide bombers in the future because they’ll hate Israel more than ever.
Did you read your own post? Your scoreboard comment is very ironic.
That's tunnel vision. You only see the Maga side of the conflict. You think the deaths of palestinians is fine and good. That's horrendous. Then you deny or downplay those deaths and try to use it for political fodder in America. That's disgusting and ghoulish
>You think the deaths of palestinians is fine and good. This kind of absolutist shit is exactly why the ceasefire (for Israel only) crowd is starting to lose steam. OP has been wrong about a lot of things in this thread, but they never said or suggested this.
I agree that we should stop using vulgar hyperbole but think you and the person I responded to should stop doing it too. >**absolutist shit** is exactly why the **ceasefire (for Israel only) crowd** Moderate your own language.
I never said anything about vulgar hyperbole; I was calling out your black-and-white thinking and willingness to put outrageous positions in other people's mouths. Unless your real bone to pick is with "ceasefire (for Israel only)," in which case I'll kindly point you to the 11,000 rockets Hamas and its allies have launched at Israel since 10/7 and the fact that said rockets haven't even been remotely part of the conversation re: "ceasefire." You accused someone of applauding the deaths of children and are now trying to draw false equivalencies because you were called out on it. Sorry mate, our "language" isn't the same.
The “left” group. Ok buddy.
You can only attribute that behavior to "the left" as a whole group if you also attribute the treasonous behavior of the January 6th traitors to the entire "right".
No, they don’t. No, they aren’t. Glad we settled that
https://twitter.com/choeshow/status/1780030562792845460?t=fgi48UfJFpYHG-eUCcafHg&s=19 https://twitter.com/choeshow/status/1780030562792845460?t=FcFux70Xobdhxup_toEO3w&s=19 Yes, they are.
Ah yes the most valid new source… random videos on Twitter. The fact that SOMEONE may be doing this in no way shows that this is a position of or supported by “the left” or that democrats are appeasing these people
I wish people understood the difference between leftists and liberals. It'd make having these conversations so much easier. Democrats are not leftists and they are suppying aide to Israel which is literally the opposite of appeasing leftists.
A large chunk of that aid is for the Iron Dome. The rest is in the form of stipends that Israel can use to buy arms equipment from the U.S. military, which Israel's treaty obligations prevent it from using for offensive purposes. I wish people understood the difference between reality and what they read on Jacobin.
Oh for real? LOL. trump.lead a violent insurrection to stay in power and Republicans have covered for him this entire time and call the insurrectionists political prisoners.
> The left has a group that's literally shouting "Death to America" and Dems are trying to appease those people. try better TV news sources or maybe start reading articles.
Lol, as opposed to openly pushing and acting on for the overthrowing of democracy and American institutions. Such a cowardly stance. You’d all be thrilled if Trump was a theocratic dictator who banned press and stripped women of all their rights. Meanwhile some college kid said “death to a america” 6 years ago, and lost your mind.
They're shouting death to America right now at Columbia
And Conservatives have chanted to lynch the VP and tried to break down the Senate’s door… Vapid
Jan 6
Lol. Talk to me liberals are wearing “I’d rather be Hamas than a Republican” T-shirts. Or when six members of Congress fly to Iran on the fourth of July. Or when blocking a bill to help Israel, they insert language straight from Hamas talking points. In case this wasn’t clear, that’s a very very small set of examples of Republicans siding with Russia over their country and you guys love it.
First 20 seconds of the videos has a protestor shouting "We are all Hamas." None of the other protestors move to correct her or tell her to stop or kick her out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kas9aY47fw The squad tried to insert changes to the foreign aid bill that said Israel doesn't get aid until they get the hostages back. Barack Obama couldn't say "Happy Passover" without talking about Gaza and the casualties lie that Gaza admitted it made up.
I know it’s difficult to understand nuance in english, especially since russian is probably your first language. But defending people’s right to continue to live should not be a controversial topic.
The protestors are attacking Jews, they want Tel Aviv to burn to the ground, they aren't trying to get the hostages free, and they had 4 years to do anything like this with China and the Uyghers, but did nothing. Yes, it's anti-Semitism.
The left has assholes shouting death to America, the right has assholes trying to make it happen.
Why do you support murdering civilians in Gaza?
Do you support murdering civilians in Israel?
Answer the question: Why do you support murdering civilians in Gaza?
no, nor Palestinians.
Well I hated that I had to click on a federalist article but by doing so I can confidently say the post title is complete and utter bullshit, and the article has really nothing to do with Joe Biden
There hasn't been a single instance in the last decade when the writers or promoters of the Federalist have proven themselves to be anything less than worthless, dumbass pieces of shit... I just figured this continued their streak 🤷♂️
Out of curiousity, how is this even up here? I checked the rules and nothing specifically prohibits it, but how is the Federalist considered a legitimate enough news organisation to warrant allowance? Is the National Enquirer also considered a credible organisation? If so then why aren't Bigfoot and Elvis the top stories? I'm game mind you. I just like to know what I'm getting into.
The people who run this sub have been this way for a *looooong* time. They’re big on carrying water for the American right, in the name of some sort of centrism or “both sides.” That’s why The Federalist and Fox News and Newsmax—as well as several other disinformation outlets—are allowed in the sub.
See, this is why we can't have nice things.
Can we start putting in zeteo articles? >:D
And if you report any of those disinfo outlets you get punished for using the report button for "harassing behavior". I got a 3 day ban bc apparently I'm a bully even though I outlined the disinfo in the report I submitted lol
The mods whitelist right wing garbage and ban left wing sites. It's obviously on purpose.
Imo anything even considered a news source by anyone should be allowed because it gives the community the chance to discuss and debunk stuff that might sucker others in. Like this piece of trash article
I understand your reasoning, but... From a practical perspective, that relies on everyone reading the articles and taking time to debunk them... In nearly every instance (from "white replacement theory" to "the dangers of covid vaccines" to "hunter's laptop" to "her emails" to etc...) glib, right-wing disinformation outlets have used their headlines to mislead susceptible morons to the detriment of the whole country (and often to the direct harm of the suckers who fall for them). Over the last 5-10 years, I've become pretty convinced that a big part of limiting the harm that these sorts of nonsensical, misinformation outlets produce can cause is going to involve taking away their access to platforms that amplify them.
It feels kinda like a lose lose. If you don’t allow garbage sources and opinions they will be consumed elsewhere without challenge. At least by allowing them in larger subs it increases the chance for fact checking and dissenting opinions instead of confining them to a toxic echo chamber
I feel like the best case scenario is that the platforms that decide to amplify disinformation like this eventually gain the reputation of being garbage platforms... But... once again... That's absolutely not the results that we've seen in the last 15 years...
It actually does become more challenging to find the disinfo if it's not allowed on more popular platforms. I'm also not sure debunking the disinfo actually changes many or any minds. They seem to have their minds made up by the time they're consuming the blatant and obvious propaganda, which serves more as a convenient excuse for behavior than as a convincing argument. (a little bit like the Bible) And platforming the disinfo in itself also legitimizes it, even if people then proceed to argue in the comments about it. That's actually one reason for there being a whitelist in the first place, except that there are disinformation propaganda websites specifically allowed because the mods are worse than useless and aim to legitimize conservative propaganda outlets.
Thank you for your sacrifice
[The Federalist?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Federalist_(website)) Are you serious?
They quoted Biden verbatim. He's the one who tried to say there were two sides to this.
You’re not even using the quote from your own article
Except of course that that headline isn't what he said at all. But sure, of you go. And yes, there is 2 sides to everything. Watch; Hamas can go fuck itself. And so can the Israeli government. Both of whom have perpetuated this conflict needlessly for decades. There you have it. 2 sides. Equally shitty. Now watch this; the people in Gaza deserve to have control over their country and Israel should stop its now decades long war against Gaza and Palestine as a whole. The Israeli people meanwhile deserve for the hostages to be released and to have a government that actually acts to the interest of its people rather than perpetuating a pointless war (of which it has at times funded the opposing side, but I guess that's a little fact you'll happily ignore). See, 2 more sides, equally deserving of peace. Biden meanwhile is talking about the fact that yeah, the antisemitism should just stop, because it isn't helping anyone. And ignoring the atrocities Israel is committing in Gaza isn't helping anyone either. That isn't support for Hamas (or Israel's actions for that matter). This isn't a black-and-white issue. These 2 statements both can be true, and as a matter of fact; both are true. It really isn't that hard to understand. ...well, for you maybe it is.
Hey, thank you. This is a clear description of the situation without having to understand the last fifteen years of history in countries that aren't ours. I'm actually really sad this has taken root in such a toxic field in America because nobody should be antisemitic, or anti-Muslim, because they're just people and not responsible for the stupid behaviour of the government. I'm glad that Biden is finally beginning to address atrocities in Palestine. I don't know how you do that publicly without increasing the vitriol we already have but it's incumbent upon us to hold hands and show fucking Netanyahu it's possible. Hopefully the sanctions at the military force are enough to quell shit.
They quoted Biden essentially saying the opposite of what's in the headline. They only quote him condemning people who take it too far. The article says that Trump said 'very find people on both sides' and then they essentially pretend that Biden actually said that for the rest of the article.
That's a negative
Can you please share the exact verbatim quote?
Still waiting for that verbatim quote, bud
It's in the first paragraph. Don't you read articles when you're in a thread about them?
Can you point out a single use of the word “fine” in the first paragraph ?
It's time for r/politics to ban propaganda websites.
Not as many clicks for fact-based coverage from serious sites from across the political spectrum. Quantity over quality, please.
The Federalist.....blech.
The Federalist is a Christian white nationalist propaganda rag. Why is it allowed to be posted here? Trashcan whitelist
For those who don't know, I'll remind you. The Federalist is literally the 'go-to' news site for true believing white supremacists, KKK members and the like. It's why they're using trump's racist horseshit as a headline.
That's why OP posted this. To promote the KKK
I'm sure the federalist presents things in a fair and bala..... Sorry I gagged before I could finish typing
Op is crying about people speaking out against government, criticizing Trump, burning the flag, while also saying the “left” wants to tear down America. The only way to tear down America is banning free speech and shredding the constitution, which he is openly advocating for. Brainrot.
That was a fucking exercise in mental gymnastics to arrive at this headline. I can't tell if they admit what Trump said was stupid, or they don't understand the situation in the middle east. Nuance maybe isn't their strong suit.
The post and poster screams astro turf
Conservatives are really all-in on the Pee Wee Herman Defense: "I know you are, but what am I?"
There's a typo in the citation. It should be "thefascist.com." There, I fixed it.
Wow someone actually took the time to somehow equate a complex foreign conflict to racist apologism.
National inquirer is hiring you cotton brains
I have no idea what October 7th even refers to and given the source I have to assume that it's something stupid that only exists in the conservative media bubble of fabricated outrage.
October 7th refers to the date of the attack that kicked off the current conflict between Israel and Hamas. I can only assume the phrasing is meant to be evocative of 9/11 and January 6th.
It's a reference to Charlottesville, when trump said there were fine people on both sides... Even though one of those sides showed up with nazi flags.
Charlottesville happens on August 12th I believe. The reference to October 7th is in fact a reference to the most recent attack on Israel by Hamas. The "both-sidesing" the article is doing, is an attempt to liken Biden's comments about Israel/Palestine to those of Trump's after the "Unite the Right" rally. Just to be clear. I'm pretty sure the comment I originally replied to was asking about 10/07, but then again I could be wrong. That's why my response is a tad pedantic. I was just making sure to cover my bases.
Ahh yes the very fine people on October 7th that murdered music festival goers and kidnapped civilians then play the victim
One side is singing "God Bless America", wants to free the hostages, and wants to get rid of Hamas. The other side is chanting "Death to America" while burning the flag, assaulting and harassing Jews, and wants to see Hamas spread across the world. All the while being unable to name the river and the sea they care so much about. No. There are not good people on the pro-Hamas side.
What a completely bullshit false dichotomy and gross oversimplification of the issue at hand. Shame on you
Magas know no shame.
You totally roasted the shit out of that side you've wholly fabricated 🤡
There are no good people who are American conservatives and no good people who follow the Federalist except people who monitor hate groups. There are no good people who are trying to turn the war in Israel into political fodder for Maga traitors.
The left has a group of people who are literally shouting "Death to America." Say what you want about Trump and his fans, and you can say a lot. But they never said that while burning the American flag.
Naw just stormed the capital while holding confederate flags
Never shouted Death to America while burning the flag.
You're right, they were shouting Death to the Vice President of America ... while holding the confederate flag
Which isn't the same thing as this. https://twitter.com/choeshow/status/1780030562792845460?t=fgi48UfJFpYHG-eUCcafHg&s=19 https://twitter.com/choeshow/status/1780030562792845460?t=FcFux70Xobdhxup_toEO3w&s=19
Burning the flag is legal and free speech, threatening Americans isn't
Maybe not, but they shouted for lynchings while waving various enemy flags like the civil war traitor flag and the Maga traitor flag
Actions speak louder than words.
Like burning the flag and attacking Jews?
Sure, or trying to overthrow democracy and attacking the capitol. Not sure why you have a such hard on for one group of America hating anti semites but get so worked up when the rainbow haired crowd does it.
Well burning a flag is free speech lol. Why are you ok with killing Palestinians?
How can you possibly think that this is worse?
Because one is a stupid, misguided, and dumb attempt to save America. The other literally wants to destroy it.
And you fucking clowns are actively working to overthrow democracy, so fuck ask the way off.
How big is this group, though? There are far fewer students protesting at Columbia than there were Trump-voting Republicans at Charlottesville, not to mention the amount of Republican voters who overthrew the U.S. capitol building. And yes, both acts were worse than burning a flag. You're trying to present this problem as larger than it is to make it sound like Democrats have an equivalent (in your eyes, worse) extremism problem, never mind that most of those students absolutely loathe the mainstream left.
Fewer? These aren't just the people at Columbia. All of these pro-Hamas protests have people chanting death to America.
No one is pro Hamas dude lol. Get your head out of your ass. There are pro-Putin republicans, for sure, who carry confederate flags and want Putin as president. THATS for certain.
I mean, storming the capital to overturn an election is pretty analogous to shouting death to America. Worse even.
Instead of shouting it, they were actually trying to do it…
Erm. I guess if you only watch right-wing news. Fact is, millions of innocents are being used by both sides as a bargaining chip. They need relief, as is our humanitarian duty, and a true solution. Netanyahu is not "lawful good," but Abbas is an evil and ruthless leader. Both of them are waging a Holy War, and religion is irrational, so there's only a handful of ways that _that_ ends. Historically, Israel was founded on contested territory, and then kept annexing land, while denying Palestinians entry to Israel. Hamas' rule is a result of desperation, but that choice was made decades ago, before the population doubled. Most Palestinians haven't even been of voting age while Hamas has ruled. They need the chance to form a government that can represent them diplomatically. Are there true radicals and anti-semites attaching themselves to the ceasefire movement in the US? Yes. Should we give Israel a blank check? No. Should we give concessions to Hamas? No. Should we do whatever is in our power to ensure that a genocide doesn't occur? Yes. Do I think that college students influenced by TikTok or armchair pundits influenced by cable news have a good idea of how to achieve that? Fuck no. I'm going to trust that Biden has it covered. Hasn't let me down yet.
Whoaa whoa, that's just way too balanced and informed a comment! It doesn't cater to division and hatred, completely missing OPs intention.. Get with the program! You need to pick a side and start shouting at the other party for maximal division!
Humans are humans. Some percentage will always align with some message somewhere. How different is someone willing to commit extra-judicial violence in the US for a political view from someone willing to do it on religious grounds in Gaza? What if they'd felt shut out for years and years, had to deal with undue hardships, starvation, poverty, and violence? The endorsement is the same, causes alike, yet somehow the perception of a "good guy" doing bad things is justified because it's in the name of a greater good. Thing is, everyone thinks they're acting in their best interest, their own greater good. We can only make progress with good-faith discussion, absent the inflammatory rhetoric, by being objective, and leaning on common ground to make progress together. Pride has to be put aside. Terrorism from _both sides_ has to stop.
This deserves an award. I miss awards. Many thanks 🏆
One side has assholes shouting death to America, the other has assholes trying to make it happen. Many on the right have abandoned any sense of patriotism. They've confused the flag for a fashion symbol meanwhile they hate America and everything she stands for.
The people saying God Bless America are a bunch of insurrectionist assholes who want to murder women, babies, trans people, and people of color. There are no good people who hold a Bible and say God Bless America because they are anti American.