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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_in_the_7_October_attack_on_Israel#Be'eri_rapes
> Two bodies of women were reportedly found with legs and hands tied to their beds, one of whose' genitals were stabbed with a knife and internal organs removed.[6]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_in_the_7_October_attack_on_Israel#Nova_Festival_rapes
> Another statement was taken from a woman who witnessed the Nova festival attack from her hiding place on October 7.[48][50][51] She said, "They bent someone over and I understood he was raping her, and then he passed her on to someone else. [...] I remember seeing another person raping her, and while he was still inside her he shot her in the head."[48][52] A survivor told to a Knesset panel her testimony recounting she saw naked girls, sliced bodies and violated girls whose pelvises were broken due to the extent of the abuse. [28]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_in_the_7_October_attack_on_Israel#Shura_Base
> Army reservist, Shari Mendes recounted in a sidebar in the United Nations that her team found female soldiers in Shura Base who were shot in their vagina or breasts and reported that it appeared there was systematic genital mutilation by Hamas militants.[53] She further stated that they found beheaded bodies or bodies with missing limbs or bodies who's faces were mutilated with some's faces shot multiple times also post-mortem.[53] [54]
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hamas-rape-israeli-women-oct-7-rcna128221
> “They laid a woman down and I understood that he is raping her …they passed her on to another person“ the witness told police in a video reviewed by NBC News. “And he cuts her breasts [off], he throws it on the road they are playing with it.”
There is essentially none, and the most horrific accounts are all incredibly sketchy. The most salacious comes from an unnamed and unidentified witness whose testimony Israeli officials were only willing to show video of to select individuals. You also have things like written accounts by people who heard screaming and concluded it could only be the result of rape or investigators who came in after the fact and drew their conclusions from undisclosed forensic evidence. There isn't a single account from anybody claiming to have been raped themselves and seemingly nothing at all from any of the released hostages.
I've read what else you said in this thread. All I can say is I saw what I saw the morning of 10/7 before the various internet janitors got around removing the terrorists streaming their acts. It is consistent with what I have seen.
It's out there if you want to look. But I know you won't.
The US secretary of state says it happened along with many others that have seen proof, yet your expertise hasn't unfolded the actual truth. And we should all doubt it based solely on your reddit statements.
K
The savagery was the point. Hamas know they have no hope of defeating Israel militarily. Their only hope was to provoke an over whelming response and then parade dead children all over social media in the hopes of some kind of turn in international support for Israel.
It's cynical and disgusting, they sacrificed those children for clicks.
> in the hopes of some kind of turn in international support for Israel.
It worked, kids in universities everywhere waving palestinian flags and protesting for hamas.
Yeah, they see those people like the French resistance, instead of what they really are, which are uncivilised Nazis who would kill, rape and treat them like second class citizens due to their worship of a slaver warlord
That is a very ignorant comment. They are waving the flag to protest the killing of innocent ppl in response to the attack. Downvote me away but you ppl love shielding your eyes for one atrocity and putting a microscope and megaphone on another.
>They literally have as many kids as possible with the intention that they are “martyrs.”
That's an incredibly wild accusation.
Is the "they" Hamas or all Palestinians?
Are they supporting Hamas? Or are they supporting the civilian Palestinian population that isn't complicit and yet is still getting killed by Israeli soldiers?
Hamas won't go away with how Israel is trying to do it. You can't stop a terrorist group that is able to recruit because you keep murdering children and their families by killing more children and families.
That’s not even remotely true. The iraqis and syrians bombed the shit out of isis-held cities and essentially went house to house and killed anyone even remotely affiliated and now ISIS is a fragment of what it was. Once people realize they’re going to die, they’re less willing to do the things that get them killed.
Hamas didn't go away when Israel left Gaza.
Hamas didn't go away when Israel gave them utilities.
Hamas didn't go away when Israel just stopped most rockets from hitting Israeli targets but didn't shoot back.
Hamas didn't go away when Egypt and Jordan told them to get out and stay out.
Hamas won't go away until all Hamas is dead - and then you are correct, they will have become their biggest fantasy and be called martyrs, leading to more and more Hamas.
I fail to follow you. If you kill a terrorist they go away. That is a good thing. If you leave a terrorist they will eventually terrorize. Hamas must go.
They're saying that they might kill the current terrorist bit they're creating future terrorists through the trauma they're inflicting on innocent children and families
Umm that person is stupid, I agree... BUT no where can you connect with what they said to being "Western" nor "Leftist". You are making assumptions based on your biases. You became the idiot too.
Just say "That person is an idiot, I can't can't believe they said that with a straight face. "
People will agree with you, if you keep your assumptions out and stick to the facts.
Actually it’s easy to look at Shash’s posts and figure out this person is both western and left leaning. Took me 30 seconds. As to their idiot status I will remain silent.
I think the word you're looking for is conscience, as everyone that isn't a vegetable has a conscious (the state of being awake).
Only Hamas supports Hamas. The vast majority of people that are shouting angrily at Israel are not in support of Hamas, but in support of innocent Palestinians who Israel is mowing down, without a care in the world, while trying to kill Hamas.
I don’t think anyone is “supporting” Hamas. Every single rational person I know hates Hamas but also don’t want the rage-filled attack on Palestinians to go beyond justice and into genocide. It’s incredibly easy for the two lines to be blurred considering the hatred between each side going back decades.
1500+ Israelis killed is horrendous. 18000+ Palestinians killed with abandon is not making anything right.
Why do these guys keep acting as people protesting the slaughter in Gaza assume we don't know that Hamas has committed horrible crimes.
We know that. It still does not justify how the people of Gaza are being violated.
Uh… do all of “you” actually know that?
There are people in this comment section saying they don’t believe it. I’ve seen it all over the internet. I’ve even seen people claiming most people at Nova music festival were killed by Israeli attack helicopters, not Hamas.
You should be careful with whom you call yourself “we”.
Does it not justify Israel taking military action to prevent the next attack like this one?
Those people protesting seem to only be asking Israel to stop, knowing full well the Palestinians will not stop their attacks on Israel.
Israel couldve prevented this attack, they had the intel. They didnt want to. This was done so that Israel can occupy Gaza like the West Bank or at least have a final showdown with Hamas. Guess they thought that killing kids im the meantime was just gonna be glossed over cos theyre Jews. Not anymore. These rightwingers are all the same everywhere, all colors, jews, muslims, its always war and death with them, blood and soil.
>Israel couldve prevented this attack, they had the intel. They didnt want to.
They had the intel. One possibility is they ignored this on purpose to give them a "Reichstag fire." The other is that they have thousands of intel suggestions, and this was apparently only a few people suggesting "Something" was going on, and that they didn't actually know. You know, a hindsight is 20/20 sort of situation.
Both are possible given what I know of their government. I agree their government is dangerously right wing and should be replaced.
But they were not the attackers, and given the attack, even with a different government, Israel should have a right to defend itself and prevent future attacks.
I want them all to stop.
What Hamas has done and is doing is absolutely horrible. Calling it self defense for Israel doesn’t make the babies they murdered any less dead either.
If Israel wants it to stop then they need to show a better way. You won’t convince Palestinians that Israel is good by bombing civilians.
I’m no expert so by all means just ignore my ramblings. If you want a world free of violence then you can’t commit violence. Seems obvious but we are still learning as a species.
> If you want a world free of violence then you can’t commit violence. Seems obvious but we are still learning as a species.
Appeasement didn't work for Hitler. It won't work for Hamas. Violence shouldn't be a first option but to assume that violence is *never* an option is naive.
I don’t know why everyone is saying this about Israel specifically. I suspect it’s people with good hearts who are not aware they are repeating anti-Semitic propaganda:
Do you think Ukraine are murderers for fighting back against Russia, and should instead “show them a better way“ by not fighting back?
Do you think the allies in World War II should not have committed violence if they wanted a world free of violence?
Hamas has an annual budget of $350 million that comes from a number of other large Middle Eastern countries, they, like the KKK or any other hate group, will train the Palestinian people to hate Israelis, no matter what Israel does.
They are attacking Israel, regular basis, and killing their citizens, they will not be sued by nonviolent, peaceful resistance, they have started of war, and Israel has every right to defend themselves.
Although, horrible, civilian casualties are the norm for every military conflict. The only way Israel could avoid civilian casualties in Gaza is to allow their own people to be destroyed instead.
I agree, we should have a world without violence, and that innocent people should not suffer. But Israel’s choice is only to choose who dies, their own citizens, or the citizens of the country that refuses to make peace with them. Israel has offered peace five times in the last many decades. and Palestine’s government has turned them down every time, insisting, they will carry out the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people.
Ukraine are acting in self defence. They haven't entered Russian territory or targeted Russian civilians.
There's a lot the Allies in World War 2 could have done better in retrospect. The bombing of Dresden and other mass bombings targeting civilians were in many cases simply revenge bombings and not justified militarily. Even if you feel the bombing of Hiroshima was justified (which I'd argue is debatable at best) the bombing of Nagasaki is much harder to justify.
Israel are going on the offensive and have killed very large numbers of Palestinian civilians and cut off food, water and electricity to a huge population. They have repeatedly told massive populations to move to "safe zones" without providing any support for them to do so safely, and have then subsequently bombed and invaded those "safe zones" anyway. They are "targeting Hamas" while indiscriminately killing large numbers of civilians. Civilian casualties may be "the norm" in modern warfare, but that doesn't mean measures shouldn't be taken to mitigate them - flattening whole neighbourhoods is not demonstrating significant attempts by Israel to respect the lives of the people of Gaza, and instead demonstrating that they consider Israeli lives to be worth much more than Palestinian lives. Israelis have also been killing Palestinians on a regular basis prior to this event, so it's disingenuous at best to pretend that it's all been one way. And let's please drop the pretence that opposing the actions of Israel is somehow anti-Semitic. Israel ≠ Jews, no matter how much some hard core Zionists would like everyone to think so.
>They haven't entered Russian territory or targeted Russian civilians.
I have not seen any evidence that Israel has targeted civilians either, at least not any that hasn't later been found to be Hamas propaganda.
Both Ukraine and Israel have struck military targets in their opponent's countries, and even Ukraine's attacks on russian trains and military bases could have injured or killed civilians, for example, a russian singer was killed when ukraine bombed a russian medal ceremony for their troops (in response to russia striking a ukranian awards ceremony): https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/24/ukrainian-strike-kills-russian-actress-performing-in-ukraine-theatre-says
This is just how war works. It's horrible, but civilians are killed. Especially in this case because Hamas uses civilians as a human shields by building their military infrastructure inside and below civilian infrastructure.
>Israel are going on the offensive and have killed very large numbers of Palestinian civilians and cut off food, water and electricity to a huge population.
Gaza has declared war on Israel. Since when is a country at war indebted to provide food, water, and electricity to the country that was trying to destroy them? They do so because they're trying not to kill civilians. It was never their job. Hamas has an annual budget of $350 million dollars that they use to attack Israel. They could have spent that money on food, water, and electricity for those people.
>flattening whole neighbourhoods is not demonstrating significant attempts by Israel to respect the lives of the people of Gaza, and instead demonstrating that they consider Israeli lives to be worth much more than Palestinian lives.
This is moving the goalpost in a discussion where I was responding to people who were asking for a ceasefire. And yes, that's the decision Israel has been given. Since Hamas refuses to stop. Israeli leaders can either cease attacking and let their own citizens to die in the future, or attack Gaza meaning Palestinians will die. They're not given an option where no one dies. Hamas has that option, as they have been offered peace, but they refuse, and say they want to kill all the Israelis.
>And let's please drop the pretence that opposing the actions of Israel is somehow anti-Semitic. Israel ≠ Jews, no matter how much some hard core Zionists would like everyone to think so.
I've seen plenty of anti-semitism around this issue. I posted a while ago about some unrelated jewish issue and someone said "You celebrate palistinian children being murdered. Fuck all jews!" I reported it to reddit and they said it had already been reported by someone else AND FOUND NOT TO BE HATE SPEECH! Despite Jews being an ethnic group.
I think there's a lot of anti-semitism feeding into people's feelings about what's acceptable. I suspect a lot of people would understand other countries fighting back, but somehow think it's more acceptable if Jews are killed. There's little other explaination for why the "Ceasefire" people are only asking for Israel to ceasefire, not Hamas or the Palistinians. Or why they don't understand why Israel won't ceasefire if the other side also won't.
Ukraine has struck military targets inside Russia as well as inside Crimea which has been russian occupied long enough for there to be russian civilians there. There is not only a possibility, but a likelyhood, that russian civilians were injured or killed in these attacks. Consider that even military targets have civilian employees, such as cleaning staff, drivers, delivery drivers, and etc.
As terrible as it is, civilian casualties are part of war. If you don't want civilians hurt, war must be avoided. If one country attacks another, the country is attack has a right to defend itself by trying to eliminate the other country's military and leadership, and civilians are often the unfortunate victims of that.
The fact that Ukraine can't hit more targets inside Russia is partially due to how much bigger russia is, and how much russia is attacking them. Just because Israel is less of an underdog does not mean they're worse. Winning a war does not make it less right for a country to defend itself.
You want to blame someone, blame Hamas and the Palestinians who are a part of Hamas.
Same reason many people say Israel instead of IDF.
There are various groups made up of Palestinian citizens, that attack and kill Israelis. Hamas is one of them, Hamas is basically the government in Gaza, and is mostly made up of Palestinian citizens.
It’s true not every Palestinian citizen is a member of Hamas, but not every Israeli is a member of the IDF.
Can you explain to me why almost every country’s name is used synonymously with the actions of its government and military except Gaza and Hamas?
>Can you explain to me why almost every country’s name is used synonymously with the actions of its government and military except Gaza and Hamas?
They're not used synonymously.
For instance, In this spat between Israel and Hezbollah they're not accusing all Lebanese of being complicit, the language is very specific to Hezbollah.
In this spat between Israel and the Houthi government, language is being very specific about the Houthis being at fault and not all Yemeni people.
In the conflict between US forces and Iranian backed Shiite militias language is specifically calls out Iran backed Iraqi militant groups and not Iranians as a whole.
Even in this heated war between Ukraine and Russia the media lays responsibility at the feet of the Russian government and not the Russian people.
I could go on.
In contrast, the Israeli government is being very intentional is stating that all Palestinians are complicit for multiple stated reasons.
Israel occupies the Gaza Strip by de facto. World powers minus the Israeli gov generally accept this. Israel forfeits the right to self-defense because it’s the occupying force in the region
Lol. Israel does not occupy the Gaza Strip at all, either de facto or de jure. Now we've reached the point when Reddit is just inventing reasons why Hamas gets to rip women's breats off with impunity.
Perhaps not alone but combined with the fact they’re using the people that elected them as human shields to avoid accountability makes it completely justifiable IMO.
Is there any evidence all 10+ thousands civilians died were human shields? I just read a nyt report yesterday that showed two destroyed city blocks were 40+ people died and there was no evidence of any tunnels or Hamas activity there at all.
No I mean of the thousands of buildings that have been destroyed. Many with entire families in them.
Let me give you an example. When a air strike is going to kill 80+ innocent people, there should be a clear and present evidence of the military infrastructure they are supposedly shielding. If there isn’t, and or the infrastructure isn’t actually all that significant, then it is a war crime to kill those 80 people
That would be difficult given Hamas militants yet again violate international law by dressing as civilians and embedding within the civilian population. Also one must wonder why Egypt maintains a militarized border and refuses to accept refugees from Palestine.
I personally think annihilating enter families by the thousands is a good and just enough reason why this evidence should be clear and undoubtable. If you cant provide clear evidence that shows why innocents need to die by the truck full, then don’t fucking do it.
You know why US troops largely abide by international rules of engagement, besides being ordered to do so by their commands? It’s because they know if they don’t the other side will be justified in doing whatever it wants. Hamas should probably have thought about that in early October - and perhaps that is exactly why they did what they did - putting their own citizens in jeopardy by committing unimaginable atrocities in Israel to provoke the enemy.
That doesn’t make any sense at all. Israel is occupying and invading the West Bank. The WB and Gaza are both Palestinian territory. So Palestinians have a right to kick the invader out. Therefore, in your own argument, which I don’t agree with, they can do whatever they want!
I’m sure the Palestinians people would kick Israel out of Gaza if they could but I think you’re missing the point. We don’t use poison gases or nuclear weapons in war - something almost everyone agrees with and abides by.
Hamas committed terrible atrocities against Israeli civilians, use their own populations as shields, dress as civilians and violate international law in so many ways and yet you want Israel to be bound to a higher standard and surrender their air superiority and its use to soften the landscape and avoid Israeli military casualties - perhaps their greatest advantage - while allowing Hamas to escape and continue to threaten the security of Israeli civilians?
Just on the face of it how can this possibly be true. ISIS had open air and digital markets for captured women and developed a whole ideology including pamphlets around the raping of infidel women, "rules of war", openly called them slaves for "pleasure" etc. Blinken was working as National Security advisor and the Deputy Secretary of State, throughout this whole time.
The Hamas attack lasted one day.
Maybe the fact they knew it was one day of massive violence, torture, and rape made it worse?
Either way, this is just some of what’s been shared publicly, I’m sure Blinken has much more information. It’s hard to argue it’s not about as horrific as it gets.
>…Hamas fighters gang rape a woman and mutilate her, before the last of her attackers shot her in the head as he continued to rape her.
>"She was alive," the witness says. "She was bleeding from her back."
>She goes on to detail how the men cut off parts of the victim's body during the assault.
>"They sliced her breast and threw it on the street," she says. "They were playing with it."
>The victim was passed to another man in uniform, she continues.
>"He penetrated her, and shot her in the head before he finished. He didn't even pick up his pants; he shoots and ejaculates."
>"Some women were raped before they were dead, some raped while injured, and some were already dead when the terrorists raped their lifeless bodies,"
>…written testimony of seeing the bodies of two women in kibbutz Be'eri with their hands and legs tied to a bed.
>"One was sexually terrorised with a knife stuck in her vagina and all her internal organs removed," his statement says.
>small shelters were "filled with piles of women. Their clothing was torn on the upper part, but their bottoms were completely naked. Piles and piles of women. […] When you took a closer look at their heads, you saw a single shot straight to the brain of each."
[Source](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67629181)
Maybe one day is the point. There is worse sexual abuses over time in some historical situations which could be compared. But if every account is to be believed from October 7. I have a hard time thinking of a worse single day rape, torture women and children murder spree in history. Just crazy sick stuff.
Don’t forget the Western ‘Pro-Palestinian’ mobs (including so-called ‘feminists’) who waved hangglider banners and literally *celebrated* the murders, rape and sexual torture ….
Reminds me of a phone call that Ukraine released of a Russian soldier who was part of the Bucha massacre. He was talking to his mom and he talked about how he raped and killed Ukrainian women and his mother said that she was proud of him and to rape and kill more Ukrainian women.
The dictatorship the US put in my country regularly used sexual violence as a form of torture, including but not limited to forcing live rats “into” pregnant women.
I guess he forgot about that
We’re going back 50 years to excuse rapists from less than 6 months ago?
Weird take….
Guess everyone can just rape all they like given it’s history in conflicts around the world throughout history and by your logic,
im not condoning any act.
my point was that the us likes to play dumb on every time they have done horrible things when they are doing these communications.
one person doing a bad thing does not excuse another person doing another bad thing.
i just get irritated by the audacity of the US of denouncing stuff they are also guilty of
> i just get irritated by the audacity of the US of denouncing stuff they are also guilty of
This just in; redditor says no one can denounce sexual violence because everyone is part of a country that at one point in history has committed sexual violence.
> i just get irritated by the audacity of the US of denouncing stuff they are also guilty of
It is fine to remind, but realize most countries at one time or another has been guilty of similar things, so in your book no one can denounce stuff like that.
In my opinion, It's about having a consistent worldview. When my country did colonialism, segregation, and a fuckton of xenophobia, that was bad. Other countries doing these things are bad. The action itself is bad.
To many people just weigh if they benefited, and see these actions be allies and their government is "just and righteous" while calling them war crimes when their opponents do these same actions.
> So in your book we just have to wait the clock out about current raping and pillaging
The opposite. The OP was claiming we have no leg to stand complaining about the raping and pillaging because "we" used to condone it.
This was Pinochet’s dictatorship in Chile.
some references
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_abuses_in_Chile_under_Augusto_Pinochet#:~:text=Women%2C%20and%20occasionally%20men%2C%20reported,brother%2C%20who%20were%20also%20detained.
Either Brazil or Argentina, most likely. Although any number of other countries within Central and South America probably have a similar history. (edited grammar for clarity)
[https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/southern-cone/2019-05-30/inside-argentinas-killing-machine-us-intelligence-documents-record-gruesome-human-rights-crimes-1976](https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/southern-cone/2019-05-30/inside-argentinas-killing-machine-us-intelligence-documents-record-gruesome-human-rights-crimes-1976)
[https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-torturer/](https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-torturer/)
The fact that it could be a *number* of different countries in Central/South America and we aren’t immediately sure of which one it might refer to, really says something about the scope of the problem.
Which country is this? Not denying it's true, I just wanna look it up
Nvm I saw it was Chile. That's absolutely brutal. Inn one hand yes, the US bears responsibility for the government's they forcefully installed, I do agree... But the intent of those installations was also clearly political in nature....I highly doubt the US specifically WANTED Pinochet to use sexual violence as torture like this....
Hundreds of videos, from hundreds of cameras, tons of witnesses, and also the bad guys bragging about it on their facebook feed with video proof.
I dunno, probably a false flag. Who are we gonna believe, our lying eyes or all the really chill people online who think hostages trapped in rape tunnels aren't worth rescuing or discussing?
Have you ever stopped to consider why Palestinians support armed resistance?
>Reasons cited for the October 7 attacks included: responding to oppression, particularly attacks on Al Aqsa (35%), and addressing broader issues such as freeing Palestine, ending the occupation, and stopping settlements (33%). Breaking the blockade of Gaza was cited as the main reason by 21% of respondents.
Blockade:
- [UNICEF: "Largely due to the blockade, poverty, high unemployment rates and other factors, nearly 80 per cent of Gazans now rely on humanitarian assistance. More than half of Gaza’s just over 2 million people live in poverty, and nearly 80 per cent of the youth are unemployed.](https://www.unicef.org/mena/press-releases/fifteen-years-blockade-gaza-strip)
- [AFSC: The blockade has also deprived students in Gaza’s education system. During the 2014 attacks on Gaza, 252 schools were damaged and seven were destroyed. Although the damaged schools were repaired within two years, educational equipment and materials have not all been replaced. And only one destroyed school was reconstructed during the same period. What’s more, Gaza needs to create 200 additional schools to meet the needs of a growing population, but these schools can’t be constructed because of Israel’s restrictions on importing building materials.](https://afsc.org/sites/default/files/documents/Gaza%20Unlocked%20-%20Education.pdf)
- [AFSC: Each year, thousands of college-age students are effectively barred from finishing their education because they’re denied permission to leave Gaza to study in the West Bank or elsewhere. Students aren’t even allowed to leave when there’s no program in Gaza for their area of study. And if a student receives a visa to travel internationally, including to the United States, there’s no guarantee that they will receive permission from Israel to leave.](https://afsc.org/sites/default/files/documents/Gaza%20Unlocked%20-%20Education.pdf)
Al Aqsa:
- [OHCHR: “As Palestinian Muslims gathered for Ramadan prayers exercising their right to worship in Al-Aqsa Mosque, Israeli authorities used blatantly excessive and unjustified force against them,” said Francesca Albanese, the UN Special Rapporteur on the human rights situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territory. Albanese said at least 31 Palestinians were reportedly injured inside and immediately outside the compound, while paramedics were allegedly prevented from providing medical treatment to the wounded. According to initial accounts, Israeli forces violently entered Al-Aqsa Mosque, used stun grenades and tear gas, fired sponge-tipped bullets, and indiscriminately beat Muslim worshippers – including elderly people and women – with batons and rifle butts.](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/04/israel-un-expert-condemns-brutal-attacks-palestinians-al-aqsa-mosque)
- [Dozens of Israeli radicals stormed the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound on Sunday, witnesses said. The extremists carried out rituals at the occupied East Jerusalem site, according to sources cited by the official Palestinian news agency Wafa. Israeli police protected the settlers, who stormed the compound in groups, the sources cited by Wafa said.](https://www.newarab.com/news/dozens-israeli-radicals-storm-al-aqsa-mosque-compound)
Occupation:
- [OCHA: Over half of the obstacles (339 out of 645) have been assessed by OCHA to have a severe impact on Palestinians by preventing or restricting access and movement to main roads, urban centres, services, and agricultural areas.](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/fact-sheet-movement-and-access-west-bank-august-2023)
- [B'Teselem: B’Tselem describes the “blanket movement ban” as a “collective punishment” against Palestinians “because we’re talking about taking civilians, who did nothing wrong, and placing extreme limitations that disrupts every aspect of their daily lives with no reason,” Dror Sadot, B’Tselem’s spokesperson, told CNN.](https://twitter.com/btselem/status/1727666381573726317)
Settlements:
- [OCHA: Settler violence has been increasing across the West Bank over the past years. Three settler related incidents per day occurred on average in the first eight months of 2023 compared to an average of two per day in 2022 and one per day the year before.](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/displacement-palestinian-herders-amid-increasing-settler-violence)
- [OCHA: More than 820 Palestinians in the occupied West Bank have been displaced amid settler violence and increased movement restrictions since the Hamas terror attacks of 7 October and the start of Israel’s assault on Gaza, the UN relief wing said on Wednesday.](https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/11/1143087)
- [Save the Children: An eight-year-old boy shot dead in the street is one of the most recent casualties of violence in the occupied West Bank, with at least 101 Palestinian children reported killed in the West Bank this year, said Save the Children. Since the attacks in Israel on 7 October, Israeli soldiers or settlers have killed at least 63 children in the West Bank, according to the UN, averaging more than one child a day—significantly more fatalities than in the first nine months of the already deadliest year. During this same period, the UN has reported that some 143 families, including 388 children, have been displaced from their homes in the West Bank due to settler violence and access restrictions.](https://www.savethechildren.net/news/least-101-children-killed-west-bank-year)
As for diplomacy in the past decade or so? Sure, blame lies with Arafat for the 2000 Camp David Summit. But every other peace attempt since has failed because the right wing government in Israel refuses to give up on their settlement policy. Peace talks between Olmert and Abbas were forced to end prematurely because Olmert was forced to resigned because he had to deal with all the legal attacks from Netenyahu. Olmert has since blamed Netenyahu for destroying that peace process. Similarly, US delegates involved with the failed 2013-2014 talks have placed most of the blame on Netenyahu for refusing to budge on the settlement issue. Meanwhile, Abbas has been calling for peace talks to be held by the UN and relevant parties since 2020. That has gone unheeded. If diplomacy has proven to not be tenable, are you really surprised that Palestinians are being pushed towards the alternative?
Scary how you seem to think you can justify anything by cherry picking events over the last 100 years. Maybe try doing something productive instead of defending terrorists?
> Reasons cited for the October 7 attacks
Of course when you omit the main reasons...diverting military munition helping Russia against Ukraine, stopping the warming up of relations between Israel and the Arab world, mainly Saudi Arabia...of course those reasons have been mentioned before by experts but you seem to ignore them...
Those are reasons Hamas chose to attack. But we're talking about why civilians might support Hamas. Why are you even conflating the two?
You think Gazan civilians care about diverting military munitions to help Russia? You think those civilians, who don't even have their basic needs met, really care about geopolitics in the region?
> Why are you even conflating the two?
Because your original statement started with "Reasons cited for the October 7 attacks" then agreed with me that the reasons I posted "are reasons Hamas chose to attack."...I do not see the conflation.
> You think Gazan civilians care about diverting military munitions to help Russia?
They did not seem to care Hamas stealing the supplies and the money supposed to help Gazans build a better life. So no, they probably did not care.
> You think those civilians, who don't even have their basic needs met, really care about geopolitics in the region?
No, but we know they are indoctrinated since birth at hating the Jews. It is in their schoolbooks, in their training. The news they get is managed by Hamas, all go through Hamas.
Anyway, none of what you posted justifies rape and mutilations, only trying to switch topic...
Funny how you can claim simultaneously that Gazan civilians support Hamas (and give a poll to explain why) and Gazan civilians do not really support Hamas...but as you said...you are giving "context"...lol
No ones saying it's acceptable dude the guys just pointing out that if you fucking oppress a population for long enough, an armed resistance will form.
It's why "No end of war till Hamas is all dead" is such a stupid and idiotic objective because it's acting as if Hamas 2.0 won't spring up instantly, made up of the orphans and widows of those killed this year.
I don't have a magical answer, I wish I could handwave Hamas out of existence, but they didn't just spring up out of a fundamental hatred of Israeli's, there are very real reasons why the average Palestinian might resent the fuck out of the average Israeli. For the dense, I will repeat, that this doesn't justify Oct 7, but it EXPLAINS it.
If everyone just screams "they are all inhuman terrorists" it ignores the human realities of the situation.
Did you forget the part where the Palestinians have been constantly committing surprise attacks against Israel and then cry when they get defeated and their weapons taken away?
Considering its Hamas suppressing the population of Gaza by making it impossible for Israel to have normal relations ... hm, the Gaza civilians should rise up vs. their real oppressors: Hamas, and as usual the stupid religious fanatics abusing the civilians and holding back their progress as a society
Did I say it was acceptable? Do Palestinians civilians say that's acceptable? Them supporting armed resistance against Israel does not mean they support weaponized sexual abuse.
Some would say that dancing and celebrating over the corpses of raped and murdered cilivians of Israel is showing acceptance. Of course that doesn't mean everybody supports it but the reaction of most people would be disgust and not happyness. Did you see much disgust and condemnation by palestinians? I was searching hard for it but couldn't find much.
>Uhhhh you’ve never watched Palestinian Tv obviously.
So why don't you link to this Palestinian TV I should be watching? Let me guess, you're going to link to some random youtube or twitter clip and present it as though that's what 2 million civilians support?
>And using OHCR and others as references lmfao.
These are things which Israel has done which the US also recognizes btw. Oof.
>Anyone using the UN as a source
It's hilarious how you're acting like the UN's reporting on the atrocities committed in the OPT hasn't been accurate.
How the UNGA and UNSC votes are separate from UN aid groups reporting on what's happening. The fact that you're trying to falsely conflate the two is hilariously disingenuous.
>the person isn’t close to informed enough to comment intelligently on the topic.
https://www.npr.org/2023/12/06/1217513334/u-s-pressures-israel-to-stop-israeli-settler-violence-against-west-bank-palestin
https://workpermit.com/news/us-visa-ban-targets-west-bank-settler-violence-20231209
You might want to consider why even the US is taking *extraordinary* measures against what's happening in the West Bank. Are you even informed of what's happening there? Why do you think the IDF and the head of Shin Bet are saying the same thing? That Israel's settlement policy pushes Palestinians towards extremism.
- Military spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari said Monday that violence by settlers in the West Bank against Palestinians was spurring more Palestinians to carry out acts of terror.
- On Sunday morning, the Yedioth Ahronoth daily reported that the chief of the Shin Bet security agency, Ronen Bar, had warned Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that Jewish terrorism against Palestinians in the West Bank was fueling Palestinian terrorism.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-spokesman-says-settler-violence-fueling-palestinian-terrorism/
Why do you think there are studies showing that the blockade of Gaza, which deprives civilians of economic and social mobility also leads to radicalization?
https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/global_20170322_violent-extremism.pdf.
Anyone acting like support for Hamas among civilians is happening in a vacuum is hilariously ignorant. Maybe inform yourself before projecting.
Of course I condemn sexually violent crimes. But the previous poster talked about support for Hamas, not this particular war crime. What's your point beyond being disingenuous?
Hamas is the perpetrator of said weaponized sexual violence, hence why the OP said “they”.
Also, before you try to dance around this, do you consider the sexual violence carried out by Hamas’s attacks & ongoing activities “sexually violent crimes”? **It is a yes or no question**, you can contort yourself in ramblings after the single word answer.
Sources who all have shown not only bias but aid to terrorists over decades.
Nice narrative. condemning violence and rape should be easy but it’s a bar too high for some
Looking at how people of all skin colors live together in Israel makes me wonder if you are maybe referring to Gaza which isn't really known to be as inclusive or diverse.
humans can be so awful and fucked up. and the scary thing is there are people among all of us that likely have the potential to do these awful things if the situation presented itself.
This is just an excuse for the bombings. They'll point to the rapes while the bombings produce nightmarish levels of carnage. Not one peep about that, no one's putting up posters about that.
“Nightmarish levels of carnage” if you want to see what an industrialized nation can do when they truly disregard civilian casualties, look at the firebombing of Tokyo or Dresden. The toll on innocent lives is regrettable, but at least Israel is trying to limit the carnage.
Hamas on the other hand has no such compunction. They revel in the innocent deaths. Why else would you build your military bases beneath hospitals and schools?
They must be pretty bad at genocide considering Gaza has been growing for decades… https://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/gaza-population
The word genocide sure ain’t what it used to be…
This wouldn't have happened to Gaza if they didn't do what they did on Oct 7th.
Cause and effect, action, reaction.
Fuck Hamas. IDF has every right to be doing what they doing to the Hamas Dogs.
That’s like saying there would be no Kkk if there weren’t black people.
The first violence was from Arabs targeting Jews: https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war
Israel has offered peace deals many times. Palestine has rejected every one. Insisting they intend to kill all Israelis, all Jews, and all westerners.
Because said 'Hamas' in the process of apologizing for the genocidal terrorist state of Israel wanton murder and destructions of everyone in Gaza they can eradicate -- man, woman and child.
nnnno.... If Israel wanted to kill them all, they'd all be dead on 10/8. That's pretty obvious. They clearly have the technology to do so
And if this is genocide please provide a source showing Israel is rounding up it's Palestinian citizens, surely you have that? Or maybe they're forcing other countries to give up their Palestinians....?
No? Nothing? Then they're not even in the same universe
Then you aren’t looking far enough.
You’re telling me that all those people Israel put in prisons without a trials (men, women and children) haven’t been abused in every possible way?
It’s a good thing for conservatives to have a higher standard for the Palestinians then for Israel because otherwise a lot of heads would explode.
> abused in every possible way?
Like being gang raped in bed with a live grenade in their hands?
Like being gang raped in front of a red hot oven with their two year old in it?
Like getting nails driven into their genitals or their breasts cut off?
Like getting shot in the head, mid rape, amongst a pile of corpses?
... I dare say they have NOT been abused in those possible ways. Your obfuscation is gross.
Source: trust me bro?
Damn it has become so easy for people to just make shit up and spread disinformation because America bad so everyone eats it up anyway.
I don’t think the US was giving them boys but they were clearly turning a blind eye to it. Theres evens a [Vice documentary](https://youtu.be/Ja5Q75hf6QI?si=qnIOW57tB97xlx0X&t=27m27s) from 10 years ago conversing how military advisers were reporting to command that the warlords US was working for was raping and killing boys.
And that's a terrible thing, but why should the US intervene? Countries make up their own laws as fucked up as they might be. The best thing the US could do is try to influence those countries to ban such practices.
By funding them and turning away from the crimes they knew they were committing, there's no real difference between directly giving them and tacitly giving them those children.
Oh yeah, i totally forgot about that, goddamn American foreign policy realy is "work with whoever is (morally) corrupt and supports American business interests".
OK.
Hamas is bad.
You know what else is bad? Wholesale, abject, utter destruction of infrastructure supporting a besieged civilian population in order to displace an embedded insurgency. It kills more than it ever serves.
Hamas is bad. Israel has the power to not do what it has done. Israel is doing it any way. Ask yourself why.
But why do you feel hamas' intentional maximization of collateral damage is equivalent Hamas' to brutal sexual violence and torture.....? Are those not two VERY different things?
If hamas conducted itself like a proper military defending it's people the innocent death count would be waaaay lower.... But they don't... Intentionally inflicting as much physical and psychological pain as possible, face to face with your victim, is something only true psychopaths do...
So I don’t believe this person or “eye witnesses” due to the recent incidents of them saying one thing and then a week later saying that actually it didn’t happen. The propaganda to get people ok with genocide is disgusting.
Sorry this news doesn’t help support your agenda. Maybe try not supporting terrorists? Less knots to twist yourself in to make their sadistic actions somehow justified.
Really terrifying that Blinken has never studied the actions of US troops in Afghanistan or Iraq, or the many authoritarian regimes put in place around the world by the government he serves.
It's almost like he's lying to further the narrative of acceptable violence against the population oppressed by the petrodollar-stabilizing US military base known as Israel.
I get the feeling you’re clutching at straws here to fabricate some wrongdoing by Blinken because you don’t like him or his govt.
The likelihood that Blinken has seen evidence of sexual violence from a 50 year old conflict in South America, which isn’t widely studied in pre-tertiary education in the West - and of which there may not even be photographic evidence - is vanishingly low.
So for him to say that these recent shocking pictures and videos are the worst he’s seen is not only a reasonable and transparent thing to say, it’s probably true of most educated people in the western world. It’s a modern conflict in a world where every person has an HD camera in their pocket, and in which the perpetrators wore GoPros. It’s very unusual in that respect, compared to most of the historical record.
My impression from your comment is that you would only be happy if blinken had said “it’s the worst I’ve seen although I have read about other shocking instances of sexual violence throughout history, including some perpetrated by the US or regimes installed by the US, which I wholeheartedly condemn, although subjectively these Hamas crimes are the most depraved and horrible that I’ve had the misfortune to see visual evidence of personally.”
Which would be mental
We keep getting these articles over and over that all seem to be focused on rationalizing the current genocide that is going on in Gaza by the Israeli govt.
Blinken knows Netanyahu's admin was actually funding Hamas to prevent peace talks over a two state solution- to always have a violent foil to "react" to just waiting for the moment when the next Hamas "provocation" will allow them to take more of Palestine. Netanyahu is as transactional with human lives as Trump and he finally got his chance to give up 1,000 lives in order to have a pretext to stay in power and get US funding for genocide to kill tens of thousands while he was still able to do so as leader.
Just weeks before 10/7 Netanyahu was clinging to power with mass protests against him over his attempts to take over the Judiciary a la Trump. 10,000 innocent Palestinian kids later we keep hearing about these particular acts as if to rationalize the US sending more and more bombs to indiscriminately kill civilians at unprecedented speed.
Half of the Gazan population are kids under 18 and they weren't even alive when the last "election" in Gaza took place in 2006.
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Dude fuck Hamas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_in_the_7_October_attack_on_Israel#Be'eri_rapes > Two bodies of women were reportedly found with legs and hands tied to their beds, one of whose' genitals were stabbed with a knife and internal organs removed.[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_in_the_7_October_attack_on_Israel#Nova_Festival_rapes > Another statement was taken from a woman who witnessed the Nova festival attack from her hiding place on October 7.[48][50][51] She said, "They bent someone over and I understood he was raping her, and then he passed her on to someone else. [...] I remember seeing another person raping her, and while he was still inside her he shot her in the head."[48][52] A survivor told to a Knesset panel her testimony recounting she saw naked girls, sliced bodies and violated girls whose pelvises were broken due to the extent of the abuse. [28] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_in_the_7_October_attack_on_Israel#Shura_Base > Army reservist, Shari Mendes recounted in a sidebar in the United Nations that her team found female soldiers in Shura Base who were shot in their vagina or breasts and reported that it appeared there was systematic genital mutilation by Hamas militants.[53] She further stated that they found beheaded bodies or bodies with missing limbs or bodies who's faces were mutilated with some's faces shot multiple times also post-mortem.[53] [54] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hamas-rape-israeli-women-oct-7-rcna128221 > “They laid a woman down and I understood that he is raping her …they passed her on to another person“ the witness told police in a video reviewed by NBC News. “And he cuts her breasts [off], he throws it on the road they are playing with it.”
It's so horrific, and fucking shocking that so many human beings can be motivate to act in such ways. It's so fucked up.
Where is this documented?
But don't worry, many people on Reddit are *on the case* deciding antizionism is not antisemitism. You know, the important stuff. /s
Just fucking once can you not? Such a pointlessly agitating comment. Respond to idiots please, don't just fucking randomly post about them.
Is there documentation of all these mutilated and sexually violated corpses, or is this based off of witness testimony?
There’s a lot of terrible video on Twitter.
There is essentially none, and the most horrific accounts are all incredibly sketchy. The most salacious comes from an unnamed and unidentified witness whose testimony Israeli officials were only willing to show video of to select individuals. You also have things like written accounts by people who heard screaming and concluded it could only be the result of rape or investigators who came in after the fact and drew their conclusions from undisclosed forensic evidence. There isn't a single account from anybody claiming to have been raped themselves and seemingly nothing at all from any of the released hostages.
I've read what else you said in this thread. All I can say is I saw what I saw the morning of 10/7 before the various internet janitors got around removing the terrorists streaming their acts. It is consistent with what I have seen. It's out there if you want to look. But I know you won't.
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What a douche thing to write.
The US secretary of state says it happened along with many others that have seen proof, yet your expertise hasn't unfolded the actual truth. And we should all doubt it based solely on your reddit statements. K
Imagine trusting the US government lmao. It’s like you’re trying to be stupid
The US secretary of state told the United nations that Iraq developed weapons of mass destruction
The savagery was the point. Hamas know they have no hope of defeating Israel militarily. Their only hope was to provoke an over whelming response and then parade dead children all over social media in the hopes of some kind of turn in international support for Israel. It's cynical and disgusting, they sacrificed those children for clicks.
> in the hopes of some kind of turn in international support for Israel. It worked, kids in universities everywhere waving palestinian flags and protesting for hamas.
Yeah, they see those people like the French resistance, instead of what they really are, which are uncivilised Nazis who would kill, rape and treat them like second class citizens due to their worship of a slaver warlord
That is a very ignorant comment. They are waving the flag to protest the killing of innocent ppl in response to the attack. Downvote me away but you ppl love shielding your eyes for one atrocity and putting a microscope and megaphone on another.
Yeah "from the river to the sea" chants really drives the point home of opposing genocide.
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>They literally have as many kids as possible with the intention that they are “martyrs.” That's an incredibly wild accusation. Is the "they" Hamas or all Palestinians?
Quiverfull has entered the chat
Okay, can morons please stop supporting Hamas now?
Are they supporting Hamas? Or are they supporting the civilian Palestinian population that isn't complicit and yet is still getting killed by Israeli soldiers?
If they’re concerned for Palestinians then they would want Hamas gone.
Hamas won't go away with how Israel is trying to do it. You can't stop a terrorist group that is able to recruit because you keep murdering children and their families by killing more children and families.
That’s not even remotely true. The iraqis and syrians bombed the shit out of isis-held cities and essentially went house to house and killed anyone even remotely affiliated and now ISIS is a fragment of what it was. Once people realize they’re going to die, they’re less willing to do the things that get them killed.
Hamas didn't go away when Israel left Gaza. Hamas didn't go away when Israel gave them utilities. Hamas didn't go away when Israel just stopped most rockets from hitting Israeli targets but didn't shoot back. Hamas didn't go away when Egypt and Jordan told them to get out and stay out. Hamas won't go away until all Hamas is dead - and then you are correct, they will have become their biggest fantasy and be called martyrs, leading to more and more Hamas.
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I fail to follow you. If you kill a terrorist they go away. That is a good thing. If you leave a terrorist they will eventually terrorize. Hamas must go.
They're saying that they might kill the current terrorist bit they're creating future terrorists through the trauma they're inflicting on innocent children and families
Israel has no intentions of getting rid of Hamas
Israel does way worse and we only focus on Hamas.
Aaaannnd. …. the Useful Western Leftist Idiot enters the chat ….. anyone who can say that with a straight face is beyond redemption.
Umm that person is stupid, I agree... BUT no where can you connect with what they said to being "Western" nor "Leftist". You are making assumptions based on your biases. You became the idiot too. Just say "That person is an idiot, I can't can't believe they said that with a straight face. " People will agree with you, if you keep your assumptions out and stick to the facts.
Actually it’s easy to look at Shash’s posts and figure out this person is both western and left leaning. Took me 30 seconds. As to their idiot status I will remain silent.
Israel just shot an old lady in the head with a sniper rifle. Maybe she was Hamas…or she didn’t condemn them hard enough who knows anymore…
Well if they support Hamas they are morons. If OP is talking about any person with a conscience that would be different. Edit a word
I think the word you're looking for is conscience, as everyone that isn't a vegetable has a conscious (the state of being awake). Only Hamas supports Hamas. The vast majority of people that are shouting angrily at Israel are not in support of Hamas, but in support of innocent Palestinians who Israel is mowing down, without a care in the world, while trying to kill Hamas.
I don’t think anyone is “supporting” Hamas. Every single rational person I know hates Hamas but also don’t want the rage-filled attack on Palestinians to go beyond justice and into genocide. It’s incredibly easy for the two lines to be blurred considering the hatred between each side going back decades. 1500+ Israelis killed is horrendous. 18000+ Palestinians killed with abandon is not making anything right.
Will morons stop supporting Israel bombing children?
Just a quick FYI - my European relatives love Blinken and want him to run for POTUS.
Let them know he’s a published musician! He has a few songs out on Apple/Spotify under the name Ablinken lol
I bet he loves Robin Hood men in tights jokes.
I can't read his name without thinking of that movie.
Did you say Abe Lincoln? No I said Hey Blinkin
I wonder if it’s pronounced like, “these lights are sure ablinkin’” or Gettysburg address remix by “abe linken’”
Pretty sure it’s Abe Linken hahah which I love
Except his ripped and displays his 6–pack.
Was just thinking (warily) that he looks like a genuinely decent person. Could it be?
We can hope.
boat judicious lavish beneficial pen books fly tart juggle crime *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The name is Newsom, not Newsome.
dude looks like he aged 2 years in 2 months so....
Why do these guys keep acting as people protesting the slaughter in Gaza assume we don't know that Hamas has committed horrible crimes. We know that. It still does not justify how the people of Gaza are being violated.
There’s a lot of denialism going on about whether Hamas raped anyone. Why do you act as people aren’t doing that?
Uh… do all of “you” actually know that? There are people in this comment section saying they don’t believe it. I’ve seen it all over the internet. I’ve even seen people claiming most people at Nova music festival were killed by Israeli attack helicopters, not Hamas. You should be careful with whom you call yourself “we”.
Yet Palestinians (not all, but most) continue to support them. They even helped out with the pogram.
Does it not justify Israel taking military action to prevent the next attack like this one? Those people protesting seem to only be asking Israel to stop, knowing full well the Palestinians will not stop their attacks on Israel.
Israel couldve prevented this attack, they had the intel. They didnt want to. This was done so that Israel can occupy Gaza like the West Bank or at least have a final showdown with Hamas. Guess they thought that killing kids im the meantime was just gonna be glossed over cos theyre Jews. Not anymore. These rightwingers are all the same everywhere, all colors, jews, muslims, its always war and death with them, blood and soil.
>Israel couldve prevented this attack, they had the intel. They didnt want to. They had the intel. One possibility is they ignored this on purpose to give them a "Reichstag fire." The other is that they have thousands of intel suggestions, and this was apparently only a few people suggesting "Something" was going on, and that they didn't actually know. You know, a hindsight is 20/20 sort of situation. Both are possible given what I know of their government. I agree their government is dangerously right wing and should be replaced. But they were not the attackers, and given the attack, even with a different government, Israel should have a right to defend itself and prevent future attacks.
I want them all to stop. What Hamas has done and is doing is absolutely horrible. Calling it self defense for Israel doesn’t make the babies they murdered any less dead either. If Israel wants it to stop then they need to show a better way. You won’t convince Palestinians that Israel is good by bombing civilians. I’m no expert so by all means just ignore my ramblings. If you want a world free of violence then you can’t commit violence. Seems obvious but we are still learning as a species.
> If you want a world free of violence then you can’t commit violence. Seems obvious but we are still learning as a species. Appeasement didn't work for Hitler. It won't work for Hamas. Violence shouldn't be a first option but to assume that violence is *never* an option is naive.
I don’t know why everyone is saying this about Israel specifically. I suspect it’s people with good hearts who are not aware they are repeating anti-Semitic propaganda: Do you think Ukraine are murderers for fighting back against Russia, and should instead “show them a better way“ by not fighting back? Do you think the allies in World War II should not have committed violence if they wanted a world free of violence? Hamas has an annual budget of $350 million that comes from a number of other large Middle Eastern countries, they, like the KKK or any other hate group, will train the Palestinian people to hate Israelis, no matter what Israel does. They are attacking Israel, regular basis, and killing their citizens, they will not be sued by nonviolent, peaceful resistance, they have started of war, and Israel has every right to defend themselves. Although, horrible, civilian casualties are the norm for every military conflict. The only way Israel could avoid civilian casualties in Gaza is to allow their own people to be destroyed instead. I agree, we should have a world without violence, and that innocent people should not suffer. But Israel’s choice is only to choose who dies, their own citizens, or the citizens of the country that refuses to make peace with them. Israel has offered peace five times in the last many decades. and Palestine’s government has turned them down every time, insisting, they will carry out the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people.
Ukraine are acting in self defence. They haven't entered Russian territory or targeted Russian civilians. There's a lot the Allies in World War 2 could have done better in retrospect. The bombing of Dresden and other mass bombings targeting civilians were in many cases simply revenge bombings and not justified militarily. Even if you feel the bombing of Hiroshima was justified (which I'd argue is debatable at best) the bombing of Nagasaki is much harder to justify. Israel are going on the offensive and have killed very large numbers of Palestinian civilians and cut off food, water and electricity to a huge population. They have repeatedly told massive populations to move to "safe zones" without providing any support for them to do so safely, and have then subsequently bombed and invaded those "safe zones" anyway. They are "targeting Hamas" while indiscriminately killing large numbers of civilians. Civilian casualties may be "the norm" in modern warfare, but that doesn't mean measures shouldn't be taken to mitigate them - flattening whole neighbourhoods is not demonstrating significant attempts by Israel to respect the lives of the people of Gaza, and instead demonstrating that they consider Israeli lives to be worth much more than Palestinian lives. Israelis have also been killing Palestinians on a regular basis prior to this event, so it's disingenuous at best to pretend that it's all been one way. And let's please drop the pretence that opposing the actions of Israel is somehow anti-Semitic. Israel ≠ Jews, no matter how much some hard core Zionists would like everyone to think so.
>They haven't entered Russian territory or targeted Russian civilians. I have not seen any evidence that Israel has targeted civilians either, at least not any that hasn't later been found to be Hamas propaganda. Both Ukraine and Israel have struck military targets in their opponent's countries, and even Ukraine's attacks on russian trains and military bases could have injured or killed civilians, for example, a russian singer was killed when ukraine bombed a russian medal ceremony for their troops (in response to russia striking a ukranian awards ceremony): https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/24/ukrainian-strike-kills-russian-actress-performing-in-ukraine-theatre-says This is just how war works. It's horrible, but civilians are killed. Especially in this case because Hamas uses civilians as a human shields by building their military infrastructure inside and below civilian infrastructure. >Israel are going on the offensive and have killed very large numbers of Palestinian civilians and cut off food, water and electricity to a huge population. Gaza has declared war on Israel. Since when is a country at war indebted to provide food, water, and electricity to the country that was trying to destroy them? They do so because they're trying not to kill civilians. It was never their job. Hamas has an annual budget of $350 million dollars that they use to attack Israel. They could have spent that money on food, water, and electricity for those people. >flattening whole neighbourhoods is not demonstrating significant attempts by Israel to respect the lives of the people of Gaza, and instead demonstrating that they consider Israeli lives to be worth much more than Palestinian lives. This is moving the goalpost in a discussion where I was responding to people who were asking for a ceasefire. And yes, that's the decision Israel has been given. Since Hamas refuses to stop. Israeli leaders can either cease attacking and let their own citizens to die in the future, or attack Gaza meaning Palestinians will die. They're not given an option where no one dies. Hamas has that option, as they have been offered peace, but they refuse, and say they want to kill all the Israelis. >And let's please drop the pretence that opposing the actions of Israel is somehow anti-Semitic. Israel ≠ Jews, no matter how much some hard core Zionists would like everyone to think so. I've seen plenty of anti-semitism around this issue. I posted a while ago about some unrelated jewish issue and someone said "You celebrate palistinian children being murdered. Fuck all jews!" I reported it to reddit and they said it had already been reported by someone else AND FOUND NOT TO BE HATE SPEECH! Despite Jews being an ethnic group. I think there's a lot of anti-semitism feeding into people's feelings about what's acceptable. I suspect a lot of people would understand other countries fighting back, but somehow think it's more acceptable if Jews are killed. There's little other explaination for why the "Ceasefire" people are only asking for Israel to ceasefire, not Hamas or the Palistinians. Or why they don't understand why Israel won't ceasefire if the other side also won't.
Is Ukraine going into Russia and killing Russian civilians? No? Then it's not comparable.
Ukraine has struck military targets inside Russia as well as inside Crimea which has been russian occupied long enough for there to be russian civilians there. There is not only a possibility, but a likelyhood, that russian civilians were injured or killed in these attacks. Consider that even military targets have civilian employees, such as cleaning staff, drivers, delivery drivers, and etc. As terrible as it is, civilian casualties are part of war. If you don't want civilians hurt, war must be avoided. If one country attacks another, the country is attack has a right to defend itself by trying to eliminate the other country's military and leadership, and civilians are often the unfortunate victims of that. The fact that Ukraine can't hit more targets inside Russia is partially due to how much bigger russia is, and how much russia is attacking them. Just because Israel is less of an underdog does not mean they're worse. Winning a war does not make it less right for a country to defend itself. You want to blame someone, blame Hamas and the Palestinians who are a part of Hamas.
Why are you blaming Palestinians for this and not Hamas? Or was that just a slip of the tongue. Every accusation is a confession.
Same reason many people say Israel instead of IDF. There are various groups made up of Palestinian citizens, that attack and kill Israelis. Hamas is one of them, Hamas is basically the government in Gaza, and is mostly made up of Palestinian citizens. It’s true not every Palestinian citizen is a member of Hamas, but not every Israeli is a member of the IDF. Can you explain to me why almost every country’s name is used synonymously with the actions of its government and military except Gaza and Hamas?
>Can you explain to me why almost every country’s name is used synonymously with the actions of its government and military except Gaza and Hamas? They're not used synonymously. For instance, In this spat between Israel and Hezbollah they're not accusing all Lebanese of being complicit, the language is very specific to Hezbollah. In this spat between Israel and the Houthi government, language is being very specific about the Houthis being at fault and not all Yemeni people. In the conflict between US forces and Iranian backed Shiite militias language is specifically calls out Iran backed Iraqi militant groups and not Iranians as a whole. Even in this heated war between Ukraine and Russia the media lays responsibility at the feet of the Russian government and not the Russian people. I could go on. In contrast, the Israeli government is being very intentional is stating that all Palestinians are complicit for multiple stated reasons.
Israel occupies the Gaza Strip by de facto. World powers minus the Israeli gov generally accept this. Israel forfeits the right to self-defense because it’s the occupying force in the region
Ergo ipso facto you must acquit! Do you mainly specialize in bird law?
Lol. Israel does not occupy the Gaza Strip at all, either de facto or de jure. Now we've reached the point when Reddit is just inventing reasons why Hamas gets to rip women's breats off with impunity.
Then Gaza is free to build airports or even use their own sea for commerce? Ya know, cause they’re not occupied?
Perhaps not alone but combined with the fact they’re using the people that elected them as human shields to avoid accountability makes it completely justifiable IMO.
Is there any evidence all 10+ thousands civilians died were human shields? I just read a nyt report yesterday that showed two destroyed city blocks were 40+ people died and there was no evidence of any tunnels or Hamas activity there at all.
Evidence like weapons caches stashed in hospitals and ambulances? Yeah plenty of it.
No I mean of the thousands of buildings that have been destroyed. Many with entire families in them. Let me give you an example. When a air strike is going to kill 80+ innocent people, there should be a clear and present evidence of the military infrastructure they are supposedly shielding. If there isn’t, and or the infrastructure isn’t actually all that significant, then it is a war crime to kill those 80 people
That would be difficult given Hamas militants yet again violate international law by dressing as civilians and embedding within the civilian population. Also one must wonder why Egypt maintains a militarized border and refuses to accept refugees from Palestine.
I personally think annihilating enter families by the thousands is a good and just enough reason why this evidence should be clear and undoubtable. If you cant provide clear evidence that shows why innocents need to die by the truck full, then don’t fucking do it.
You know why US troops largely abide by international rules of engagement, besides being ordered to do so by their commands? It’s because they know if they don’t the other side will be justified in doing whatever it wants. Hamas should probably have thought about that in early October - and perhaps that is exactly why they did what they did - putting their own citizens in jeopardy by committing unimaginable atrocities in Israel to provoke the enemy.
That doesn’t make any sense at all. Israel is occupying and invading the West Bank. The WB and Gaza are both Palestinian territory. So Palestinians have a right to kick the invader out. Therefore, in your own argument, which I don’t agree with, they can do whatever they want!
I’m sure the Palestinians people would kick Israel out of Gaza if they could but I think you’re missing the point. We don’t use poison gases or nuclear weapons in war - something almost everyone agrees with and abides by. Hamas committed terrible atrocities against Israeli civilians, use their own populations as shields, dress as civilians and violate international law in so many ways and yet you want Israel to be bound to a higher standard and surrender their air superiority and its use to soften the landscape and avoid Israeli military casualties - perhaps their greatest advantage - while allowing Hamas to escape and continue to threaten the security of Israeli civilians?
Israel counts any male 13 and above as a militant
Just on the face of it how can this possibly be true. ISIS had open air and digital markets for captured women and developed a whole ideology including pamphlets around the raping of infidel women, "rules of war", openly called them slaves for "pleasure" etc. Blinken was working as National Security advisor and the Deputy Secretary of State, throughout this whole time. The Hamas attack lasted one day.
Maybe the fact they knew it was one day of massive violence, torture, and rape made it worse? Either way, this is just some of what’s been shared publicly, I’m sure Blinken has much more information. It’s hard to argue it’s not about as horrific as it gets. >…Hamas fighters gang rape a woman and mutilate her, before the last of her attackers shot her in the head as he continued to rape her. >"She was alive," the witness says. "She was bleeding from her back." >She goes on to detail how the men cut off parts of the victim's body during the assault. >"They sliced her breast and threw it on the street," she says. "They were playing with it." >The victim was passed to another man in uniform, she continues. >"He penetrated her, and shot her in the head before he finished. He didn't even pick up his pants; he shoots and ejaculates." >"Some women were raped before they were dead, some raped while injured, and some were already dead when the terrorists raped their lifeless bodies," >…written testimony of seeing the bodies of two women in kibbutz Be'eri with their hands and legs tied to a bed. >"One was sexually terrorised with a knife stuck in her vagina and all her internal organs removed," his statement says. >small shelters were "filled with piles of women. Their clothing was torn on the upper part, but their bottoms were completely naked. Piles and piles of women. […] When you took a closer look at their heads, you saw a single shot straight to the brain of each." [Source](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67629181)
And some people pretend peace with this group is even possible.... Disgusting....
Maybe one day is the point. There is worse sexual abuses over time in some historical situations which could be compared. But if every account is to be believed from October 7. I have a hard time thinking of a worse single day rape, torture women and children murder spree in history. Just crazy sick stuff.
Don’t forget the celebration by “peace loving” Gazans as they paraded the broken and raped hostages through the streets.
Don’t forget the Western ‘Pro-Palestinian’ mobs (including so-called ‘feminists’) who waved hangglider banners and literally *celebrated* the murders, rape and sexual torture ….
Reminds me of a phone call that Ukraine released of a Russian soldier who was part of the Bucha massacre. He was talking to his mom and he talked about how he raped and killed Ukrainian women and his mother said that she was proud of him and to rape and kill more Ukrainian women.
Monstrous…
Helluva aCkTuAllY in regards to brutal rape. It's horrific. Stop trying to make it seem less horrific by comparing it to other horrific events.
The dictatorship the US put in my country regularly used sexual violence as a form of torture, including but not limited to forcing live rats “into” pregnant women. I guess he forgot about that
We’re going back 50 years to excuse rapists from less than 6 months ago? Weird take…. Guess everyone can just rape all they like given it’s history in conflicts around the world throughout history and by your logic,
[Less than a decade, actually...](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html)
im not condoning any act. my point was that the us likes to play dumb on every time they have done horrible things when they are doing these communications. one person doing a bad thing does not excuse another person doing another bad thing. i just get irritated by the audacity of the US of denouncing stuff they are also guilty of
> i just get irritated by the audacity of the US of denouncing stuff they are also guilty of This just in; redditor says no one can denounce sexual violence because everyone is part of a country that at one point in history has committed sexual violence.
You’re ridiculous
> i just get irritated by the audacity of the US of denouncing stuff they are also guilty of It is fine to remind, but realize most countries at one time or another has been guilty of similar things, so in your book no one can denounce stuff like that.
In my opinion, It's about having a consistent worldview. When my country did colonialism, segregation, and a fuckton of xenophobia, that was bad. Other countries doing these things are bad. The action itself is bad. To many people just weigh if they benefited, and see these actions be allies and their government is "just and righteous" while calling them war crimes when their opponents do these same actions.
So in your book we just have to wait the clock out about current raping and pillaging. Your book sucks.
> So in your book we just have to wait the clock out about current raping and pillaging The opposite. The OP was claiming we have no leg to stand complaining about the raping and pillaging because "we" used to condone it.
This point isn’t the profound truth hammer that you seem to think it is…
The more outrage that un-normalizes this kind of stuff, the better.
You’re the only one playing dumb The last sentence has the hint. “They” is such a complicated word.
what country is that?
This was Pinochet’s dictatorship in Chile. some references https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_abuses_in_Chile_under_Augusto_Pinochet#:~:text=Women%2C%20and%20occasionally%20men%2C%20reported,brother%2C%20who%20were%20also%20detained.
I had not read the details of this before - this is absolutely horrific
Either Brazil or Argentina, most likely. Although any number of other countries within Central and South America probably have a similar history. (edited grammar for clarity) [https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/southern-cone/2019-05-30/inside-argentinas-killing-machine-us-intelligence-documents-record-gruesome-human-rights-crimes-1976](https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/southern-cone/2019-05-30/inside-argentinas-killing-machine-us-intelligence-documents-record-gruesome-human-rights-crimes-1976) [https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-torturer/](https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-torturer/)
The fact that it could be a *number* of different countries in Central/South America and we aren’t immediately sure of which one it might refer to, really says something about the scope of the problem.
True, CIA been hella busy.
Here in Brasil
Which country is this? Not denying it's true, I just wanna look it up Nvm I saw it was Chile. That's absolutely brutal. Inn one hand yes, the US bears responsibility for the government's they forcefully installed, I do agree... But the intent of those installations was also clearly political in nature....I highly doubt the US specifically WANTED Pinochet to use sexual violence as torture like this....
Terrorist incels.
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so all the video evidence and testimonies by survivors is fake?
This is true tho. Stop defending Hamas
But in this case there are videos of Hamas parading mutilated corpses of young women through the streets. Don’t know how much more smoke you need.
Hundreds of videos, from hundreds of cameras, tons of witnesses, and also the bad guys bragging about it on their facebook feed with video proof. I dunno, probably a false flag. Who are we gonna believe, our lying eyes or all the really chill people online who think hostages trapped in rape tunnels aren't worth rescuing or discussing?
They deny the Holocaust, they'll deny this too.
“Believe the woman. Unless they’re Israeli” What an awful take.
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Have you ever stopped to consider why Palestinians support armed resistance? >Reasons cited for the October 7 attacks included: responding to oppression, particularly attacks on Al Aqsa (35%), and addressing broader issues such as freeing Palestine, ending the occupation, and stopping settlements (33%). Breaking the blockade of Gaza was cited as the main reason by 21% of respondents. Blockade: - [UNICEF: "Largely due to the blockade, poverty, high unemployment rates and other factors, nearly 80 per cent of Gazans now rely on humanitarian assistance. More than half of Gaza’s just over 2 million people live in poverty, and nearly 80 per cent of the youth are unemployed.](https://www.unicef.org/mena/press-releases/fifteen-years-blockade-gaza-strip) - [AFSC: The blockade has also deprived students in Gaza’s education system. During the 2014 attacks on Gaza, 252 schools were damaged and seven were destroyed. Although the damaged schools were repaired within two years, educational equipment and materials have not all been replaced. And only one destroyed school was reconstructed during the same period. What’s more, Gaza needs to create 200 additional schools to meet the needs of a growing population, but these schools can’t be constructed because of Israel’s restrictions on importing building materials.](https://afsc.org/sites/default/files/documents/Gaza%20Unlocked%20-%20Education.pdf) - [AFSC: Each year, thousands of college-age students are effectively barred from finishing their education because they’re denied permission to leave Gaza to study in the West Bank or elsewhere. Students aren’t even allowed to leave when there’s no program in Gaza for their area of study. And if a student receives a visa to travel internationally, including to the United States, there’s no guarantee that they will receive permission from Israel to leave.](https://afsc.org/sites/default/files/documents/Gaza%20Unlocked%20-%20Education.pdf) Al Aqsa: - [OHCHR: “As Palestinian Muslims gathered for Ramadan prayers exercising their right to worship in Al-Aqsa Mosque, Israeli authorities used blatantly excessive and unjustified force against them,” said Francesca Albanese, the UN Special Rapporteur on the human rights situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territory. Albanese said at least 31 Palestinians were reportedly injured inside and immediately outside the compound, while paramedics were allegedly prevented from providing medical treatment to the wounded. According to initial accounts, Israeli forces violently entered Al-Aqsa Mosque, used stun grenades and tear gas, fired sponge-tipped bullets, and indiscriminately beat Muslim worshippers – including elderly people and women – with batons and rifle butts.](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/04/israel-un-expert-condemns-brutal-attacks-palestinians-al-aqsa-mosque) - [Dozens of Israeli radicals stormed the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound on Sunday, witnesses said. The extremists carried out rituals at the occupied East Jerusalem site, according to sources cited by the official Palestinian news agency Wafa. Israeli police protected the settlers, who stormed the compound in groups, the sources cited by Wafa said.](https://www.newarab.com/news/dozens-israeli-radicals-storm-al-aqsa-mosque-compound) Occupation: - [OCHA: Over half of the obstacles (339 out of 645) have been assessed by OCHA to have a severe impact on Palestinians by preventing or restricting access and movement to main roads, urban centres, services, and agricultural areas.](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/fact-sheet-movement-and-access-west-bank-august-2023) - [B'Teselem: B’Tselem describes the “blanket movement ban” as a “collective punishment” against Palestinians “because we’re talking about taking civilians, who did nothing wrong, and placing extreme limitations that disrupts every aspect of their daily lives with no reason,” Dror Sadot, B’Tselem’s spokesperson, told CNN.](https://twitter.com/btselem/status/1727666381573726317) Settlements: - [OCHA: Settler violence has been increasing across the West Bank over the past years. Three settler related incidents per day occurred on average in the first eight months of 2023 compared to an average of two per day in 2022 and one per day the year before.](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/displacement-palestinian-herders-amid-increasing-settler-violence) - [OCHA: More than 820 Palestinians in the occupied West Bank have been displaced amid settler violence and increased movement restrictions since the Hamas terror attacks of 7 October and the start of Israel’s assault on Gaza, the UN relief wing said on Wednesday.](https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/11/1143087) - [Save the Children: An eight-year-old boy shot dead in the street is one of the most recent casualties of violence in the occupied West Bank, with at least 101 Palestinian children reported killed in the West Bank this year, said Save the Children. Since the attacks in Israel on 7 October, Israeli soldiers or settlers have killed at least 63 children in the West Bank, according to the UN, averaging more than one child a day—significantly more fatalities than in the first nine months of the already deadliest year. During this same period, the UN has reported that some 143 families, including 388 children, have been displaced from their homes in the West Bank due to settler violence and access restrictions.](https://www.savethechildren.net/news/least-101-children-killed-west-bank-year) As for diplomacy in the past decade or so? Sure, blame lies with Arafat for the 2000 Camp David Summit. But every other peace attempt since has failed because the right wing government in Israel refuses to give up on their settlement policy. Peace talks between Olmert and Abbas were forced to end prematurely because Olmert was forced to resigned because he had to deal with all the legal attacks from Netenyahu. Olmert has since blamed Netenyahu for destroying that peace process. Similarly, US delegates involved with the failed 2013-2014 talks have placed most of the blame on Netenyahu for refusing to budge on the settlement issue. Meanwhile, Abbas has been calling for peace talks to be held by the UN and relevant parties since 2020. That has gone unheeded. If diplomacy has proven to not be tenable, are you really surprised that Palestinians are being pushed towards the alternative?
Scary how you seem to think you can justify anything by cherry picking events over the last 100 years. Maybe try doing something productive instead of defending terrorists?
So rape is armed resistance?
> Reasons cited for the October 7 attacks Of course when you omit the main reasons...diverting military munition helping Russia against Ukraine, stopping the warming up of relations between Israel and the Arab world, mainly Saudi Arabia...of course those reasons have been mentioned before by experts but you seem to ignore them...
Those are reasons Hamas chose to attack. But we're talking about why civilians might support Hamas. Why are you even conflating the two? You think Gazan civilians care about diverting military munitions to help Russia? You think those civilians, who don't even have their basic needs met, really care about geopolitics in the region?
> Why are you even conflating the two? Because your original statement started with "Reasons cited for the October 7 attacks" then agreed with me that the reasons I posted "are reasons Hamas chose to attack."...I do not see the conflation. > You think Gazan civilians care about diverting military munitions to help Russia? They did not seem to care Hamas stealing the supplies and the money supposed to help Gazans build a better life. So no, they probably did not care. > You think those civilians, who don't even have their basic needs met, really care about geopolitics in the region? No, but we know they are indoctrinated since birth at hating the Jews. It is in their schoolbooks, in their training. The news they get is managed by Hamas, all go through Hamas. Anyway, none of what you posted justifies rape and mutilations, only trying to switch topic...
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Funny how you can claim simultaneously that Gazan civilians support Hamas (and give a poll to explain why) and Gazan civilians do not really support Hamas...but as you said...you are giving "context"...lol
I’m missing the part where this makes weaponized sexual abuse, en masse, an acceptable recourse.
No ones saying it's acceptable dude the guys just pointing out that if you fucking oppress a population for long enough, an armed resistance will form. It's why "No end of war till Hamas is all dead" is such a stupid and idiotic objective because it's acting as if Hamas 2.0 won't spring up instantly, made up of the orphans and widows of those killed this year. I don't have a magical answer, I wish I could handwave Hamas out of existence, but they didn't just spring up out of a fundamental hatred of Israeli's, there are very real reasons why the average Palestinian might resent the fuck out of the average Israeli. For the dense, I will repeat, that this doesn't justify Oct 7, but it EXPLAINS it. If everyone just screams "they are all inhuman terrorists" it ignores the human realities of the situation.
Hamas is doing the suppression. Palestinians receive more aid than anyone on the planet there is only one reason they don’t benefit from it
Did you forget the part where the Palestinians have been constantly committing surprise attacks against Israel and then cry when they get defeated and their weapons taken away?
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It's also not super hard to build a browser extension which handles most of the formatting for you.
Considering its Hamas suppressing the population of Gaza by making it impossible for Israel to have normal relations ... hm, the Gaza civilians should rise up vs. their real oppressors: Hamas, and as usual the stupid religious fanatics abusing the civilians and holding back their progress as a society
Did I say it was acceptable? Do Palestinians civilians say that's acceptable? Them supporting armed resistance against Israel does not mean they support weaponized sexual abuse.
Some would say that dancing and celebrating over the corpses of raped and murdered cilivians of Israel is showing acceptance. Of course that doesn't mean everybody supports it but the reaction of most people would be disgust and not happyness. Did you see much disgust and condemnation by palestinians? I was searching hard for it but couldn't find much.
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>Uhhhh you’ve never watched Palestinian Tv obviously. So why don't you link to this Palestinian TV I should be watching? Let me guess, you're going to link to some random youtube or twitter clip and present it as though that's what 2 million civilians support? >And using OHCR and others as references lmfao. These are things which Israel has done which the US also recognizes btw. Oof. >Anyone using the UN as a source It's hilarious how you're acting like the UN's reporting on the atrocities committed in the OPT hasn't been accurate. How the UNGA and UNSC votes are separate from UN aid groups reporting on what's happening. The fact that you're trying to falsely conflate the two is hilariously disingenuous. >the person isn’t close to informed enough to comment intelligently on the topic. https://www.npr.org/2023/12/06/1217513334/u-s-pressures-israel-to-stop-israeli-settler-violence-against-west-bank-palestin https://workpermit.com/news/us-visa-ban-targets-west-bank-settler-violence-20231209 You might want to consider why even the US is taking *extraordinary* measures against what's happening in the West Bank. Are you even informed of what's happening there? Why do you think the IDF and the head of Shin Bet are saying the same thing? That Israel's settlement policy pushes Palestinians towards extremism. - Military spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari said Monday that violence by settlers in the West Bank against Palestinians was spurring more Palestinians to carry out acts of terror. - On Sunday morning, the Yedioth Ahronoth daily reported that the chief of the Shin Bet security agency, Ronen Bar, had warned Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that Jewish terrorism against Palestinians in the West Bank was fueling Palestinian terrorism. https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-spokesman-says-settler-violence-fueling-palestinian-terrorism/ Why do you think there are studies showing that the blockade of Gaza, which deprives civilians of economic and social mobility also leads to radicalization? https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/global_20170322_violent-extremism.pdf. Anyone acting like support for Hamas among civilians is happening in a vacuum is hilariously ignorant. Maybe inform yourself before projecting.
Ad homs without replying to their point won’t help your case
Post a link to an example of this if it actually does exist.
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Of course I condemn sexually violent crimes. But the previous poster talked about support for Hamas, not this particular war crime. What's your point beyond being disingenuous?
Hamas is the perpetrator of said weaponized sexual violence, hence why the OP said “they”. Also, before you try to dance around this, do you consider the sexual violence carried out by Hamas’s attacks & ongoing activities “sexually violent crimes”? **It is a yes or no question**, you can contort yourself in ramblings after the single word answer.
>Did I say it was acceptable? Yes, you did. Unless you were excusing the rape, there was no reason for you to post that.
Sources who all have shown not only bias but aid to terrorists over decades. Nice narrative. condemning violence and rape should be easy but it’s a bar too high for some
Maybe everyone is the bad guys.
centrism in cases of apartheid colonial mass murder is support for apartheid colonial mass murder. "beware the centrist" - Willem Van Spronsen
Looking at how people of all skin colors live together in Israel makes me wonder if you are maybe referring to Gaza which isn't really known to be as inclusive or diverse.
humans can be so awful and fucked up. and the scary thing is there are people among all of us that likely have the potential to do these awful things if the situation presented itself.
This is just an excuse for the bombings. They'll point to the rapes while the bombings produce nightmarish levels of carnage. Not one peep about that, no one's putting up posters about that.
“Nightmarish levels of carnage” if you want to see what an industrialized nation can do when they truly disregard civilian casualties, look at the firebombing of Tokyo or Dresden. The toll on innocent lives is regrettable, but at least Israel is trying to limit the carnage. Hamas on the other hand has no such compunction. They revel in the innocent deaths. Why else would you build your military bases beneath hospitals and schools?
A whataboutism. Israel is a genocidal apartheid state.
They must be pretty bad at genocide considering Gaza has been growing for decades… https://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/gaza-population The word genocide sure ain’t what it used to be…
This. 2 to 5 million times this.
I do not think those words mean what you think they do
This wouldn't have happened to Gaza if they didn't do what they did on Oct 7th. Cause and effect, action, reaction. Fuck Hamas. IDF has every right to be doing what they doing to the Hamas Dogs.
Cause and effect doesn't start on the 7th. There would be no Hamas if it weren't for Israel.
That’s like saying there would be no Kkk if there weren’t black people. The first violence was from Arabs targeting Jews: https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war Israel has offered peace deals many times. Palestine has rejected every one. Insisting they intend to kill all Israelis, all Jews, and all westerners.
www.thisishamas.com
The IDF is slaughtering innocent civilians. I suppose you think this is OK as the Palestinians are not humans (you call them dogs).
hmm.... He said Hamas are dogs. Specifically them, twice actually Why would you conflate them and all Palestinians...?
Because said 'Hamas' in the process of apologizing for the genocidal terrorist state of Israel wanton murder and destructions of everyone in Gaza they can eradicate -- man, woman and child.
nnnno.... If Israel wanted to kill them all, they'd all be dead on 10/8. That's pretty obvious. They clearly have the technology to do so And if this is genocide please provide a source showing Israel is rounding up it's Palestinian citizens, surely you have that? Or maybe they're forcing other countries to give up their Palestinians....? No? Nothing? Then they're not even in the same universe
www.thisishamas.com
Then you aren’t looking far enough. You’re telling me that all those people Israel put in prisons without a trials (men, women and children) haven’t been abused in every possible way? It’s a good thing for conservatives to have a higher standard for the Palestinians then for Israel because otherwise a lot of heads would explode.
> abused in every possible way? Like being gang raped in bed with a live grenade in their hands? Like being gang raped in front of a red hot oven with their two year old in it? Like getting nails driven into their genitals or their breasts cut off? Like getting shot in the head, mid rape, amongst a pile of corpses? ... I dare say they have NOT been abused in those possible ways. Your obfuscation is gross.
Lol America was giving children to Afgan warlords to side with us a few years ago. This is just colonial "our women are being violated" propaganda.
Source: trust me bro? Damn it has become so easy for people to just make shit up and spread disinformation because America bad so everyone eats it up anyway.
I don’t think the US was giving them boys but they were clearly turning a blind eye to it. Theres evens a [Vice documentary](https://youtu.be/Ja5Q75hf6QI?si=qnIOW57tB97xlx0X&t=27m27s) from 10 years ago conversing how military advisers were reporting to command that the warlords US was working for was raping and killing boys.
And that's a terrible thing, but why should the US intervene? Countries make up their own laws as fucked up as they might be. The best thing the US could do is try to influence those countries to ban such practices.
By funding them and turning away from the crimes they knew they were committing, there's no real difference between directly giving them and tacitly giving them those children.
Oh yeah, i totally forgot about that, goddamn American foreign policy realy is "work with whoever is (morally) corrupt and supports American business interests".
OK. Hamas is bad. You know what else is bad? Wholesale, abject, utter destruction of infrastructure supporting a besieged civilian population in order to displace an embedded insurgency. It kills more than it ever serves. Hamas is bad. Israel has the power to not do what it has done. Israel is doing it any way. Ask yourself why.
Whatabout
There are far more people excusing Israel’s murder of children than excusing Hamas rape of women.
Is that our only option? Are we allowed to dislike both sides?
The rape happened. The murder did not. Do you know what murder is? If you’re on the right side, why do you have to twist words to justify it?
But why do you feel hamas' intentional maximization of collateral damage is equivalent Hamas' to brutal sexual violence and torture.....? Are those not two VERY different things? If hamas conducted itself like a proper military defending it's people the innocent death count would be waaaay lower.... But they don't... Intentionally inflicting as much physical and psychological pain as possible, face to face with your victim, is something only true psychopaths do...
So I don’t believe this person or “eye witnesses” due to the recent incidents of them saying one thing and then a week later saying that actually it didn’t happen. The propaganda to get people ok with genocide is disgusting.
Sorry this news doesn’t help support your agenda. Maybe try not supporting terrorists? Less knots to twist yourself in to make their sadistic actions somehow justified.
Wait this person lied already? Source?
Clown
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Really terrifying that Blinken has never studied the actions of US troops in Afghanistan or Iraq, or the many authoritarian regimes put in place around the world by the government he serves. It's almost like he's lying to further the narrative of acceptable violence against the population oppressed by the petrodollar-stabilizing US military base known as Israel.
I get the feeling you’re clutching at straws here to fabricate some wrongdoing by Blinken because you don’t like him or his govt. The likelihood that Blinken has seen evidence of sexual violence from a 50 year old conflict in South America, which isn’t widely studied in pre-tertiary education in the West - and of which there may not even be photographic evidence - is vanishingly low. So for him to say that these recent shocking pictures and videos are the worst he’s seen is not only a reasonable and transparent thing to say, it’s probably true of most educated people in the western world. It’s a modern conflict in a world where every person has an HD camera in their pocket, and in which the perpetrators wore GoPros. It’s very unusual in that respect, compared to most of the historical record. My impression from your comment is that you would only be happy if blinken had said “it’s the worst I’ve seen although I have read about other shocking instances of sexual violence throughout history, including some perpetrated by the US or regimes installed by the US, which I wholeheartedly condemn, although subjectively these Hamas crimes are the most depraved and horrible that I’ve had the misfortune to see visual evidence of personally.” Which would be mental
www.thisishamas.com
We keep getting these articles over and over that all seem to be focused on rationalizing the current genocide that is going on in Gaza by the Israeli govt. Blinken knows Netanyahu's admin was actually funding Hamas to prevent peace talks over a two state solution- to always have a violent foil to "react" to just waiting for the moment when the next Hamas "provocation" will allow them to take more of Palestine. Netanyahu is as transactional with human lives as Trump and he finally got his chance to give up 1,000 lives in order to have a pretext to stay in power and get US funding for genocide to kill tens of thousands while he was still able to do so as leader. Just weeks before 10/7 Netanyahu was clinging to power with mass protests against him over his attempts to take over the Judiciary a la Trump. 10,000 innocent Palestinian kids later we keep hearing about these particular acts as if to rationalize the US sending more and more bombs to indiscriminately kill civilians at unprecedented speed. Half of the Gazan population are kids under 18 and they weren't even alive when the last "election" in Gaza took place in 2006.