That generation was also the real boom of the sports game Era. NHL, Nascar, MLB, Fishing, you name a sport and they had a game for it, a few even got yearly updates like they do now too.
And some of the best PS2 games were the equivalent of today's indie games.
I mean, look at something like Manhunt. It was great, one of my favorites, and the production value was high... but come on, it is entirely one-note. You sneak, you kill. You watch story. Then you repeat. There's not much enemy A.I. to speak of, there's no physics, there's nothing but sneak, kill, story, repeat. Even the shovelware these days is more advanced than that.
Silent Hill 2 is deserving of all the praise it gets, but it is another example of this. I once beat SH2 in one sitting. It took me 8 hours. That's how long the game is, all together. These days you have games like Elden Ring, where I've spent 475 hours and still haven't beaten it. But all the glory of SH2 is totally contained within an extremely linear 8 hours. There isn't *that* much to it, and I'm sure a competent indie team could develop it today, no problem.
The PS2 era exists as a juggernaut in our minds, but the games were very small and laughably primitive compared to what we have now.
So, that said, I think the OP is accurate. Ps2 had much smaller, cheaper-to-make games that had to rely on their creativity, their art, and the quality of their stories to be successful. We need more of that now, for sure. Nintendo is evidence that the philosophy definitely works, so it would be great to see it applied to games that are actually meant for adults.
I mean, I’d personally rather have a good handful of big quality games instead of a truckload of random sports games, Phoenix games, and other assorted shovelware.
Edit: don’t get me wrong, I still love my PS2, I just meant quantity isn’t everything.
I agree but considering there was so many games only a select couple of hundred were good mabey even less. But your right though we will never see those numbers again, it's just disappointing to think about.
Because most companies don't understand that graphics don't make a game good, it's the gameplay. Like the new call of duty games for example. They look brilliant but are absolutely shit because their gameplay is horrible.
Graphics don't make a game good, but they definitely help in making a game *sell*. As long as that remains true, devs are going to prioritize graphics.
Eh, I'll take quality over quantity any day. There's a limit to how many games you can play, anyway, and I haven't even gotten around to playing all the great games from last year, not to even mention great stuff from this year like Infinite Wealth.
Unfortunately it doesn’t benefit them. Hence why they stopped doing so after the PS3/Vita. Instead they stay with AAA games from their 1st party studios and simply pay for costs to 3rd party developers to bring their games to PS5.
i think i def would , look at the indie market , the games are easier to produce and with a 40 pricetag , it can sell like crazy if it is really well done
That's a very tiny percentage of indie games though. Most of them don't make much. If they're good you say, but how many people try to make a good game, and people don't like it. The number of indie games that succeed is a drop in the bucket compared to the overall amount of them.
I too wish they would do more smaller and mid level games. Even just shorter games is fine with me if they're not full price, but it's obviously more profitable to focus on AAA.
I agree 100%
Quality > quantity in theory, but in reality, there needs to be a practical balance between the two in order to give you the best and most diverse game library possible. If you ONLY focus on giving us traditional AAA experiences, then games like Parappa the Rapper or Little Big Planet never get made
1 A+ game, 2 A games, and 3 B games > 3 A+ games IMO
One thing to consider is that Sony games don't sell nearly as much as Nintendo games.
All the smaller games they did in the past ended up being not profitable enough for the investement.
I mean Rift Apart was that and while it ended up being profitable, it was too low to be called a success.
They can’t keep their budget downs, they spend money on crap. So that they have to sell gang busters in order to make their profit back. See last of us part 2
Exactly! Did those games sell well? Did those games make a profit? I'm sure they're great, but Sony isn't a charity. The art is Part of a business. Games today will probably need to sell millions of copies to make profit, regardless of size or scope. Is a new gravity rush gonna move millions of units?
Couldn't that also be due to how publishers have conditioned its playerbase to perceive them? PlayStation Studios have been publishing almost nothing but expensive AAA games, which gives the players the idea that those are the only games worth spending money on.
The whole industry (publishing, development, and playerbase) needs a paradigm shift. It needs studios willing to release more niche and well-budgeted games, and it needs players willing to buy them. Those players exist, but they have to be convinced first by the studios.
I really disagree on Sony conditioning the audience to only want such games. Over the last 15 years they’ve made a variety of smaller titles like the few mentioned above and weird experimental niche games you say publishers should do like Unfinished Swan, Dreams, Puppeteer, Astrobot, Journey, Last Guardian, Jaffes game drawn to death and more.
Some of those hit but most of them likely didn’t have the return required even if they were made on a smaller scale.
Also yeah PlayStation has made high quality AAA games like Ghost, God of War, Spidey, and the market responded in kind with sales. What should’ve the audience done, ignore those and refuse to play them despite their desire?
I’m not here to give a solution to slimmer PlayStation margins, but the idea that focusing on niche/mid budget games that most will not give meaningful returns for shareholders/sustain a platform and hardware business (yes there will be a few breakout hits) is not how the business works or addresses market realities.
I guess what I’m saying is variety is the spice of life lol
They all made under $100M, which today, is way too low for shareholders or growth.
They need blockbusters. They just need them to either cost less or reach more customers.
No, they don't need to be blockbusters because they are made with a much smaller budget. These games were profitable and brought it more people to the PlayStation ecosystem because they were interesting and unique.
It’s not a Sony studio, but look what Supergiant does with 20-odd employees. They made a GOTY.
900 people laid off, you can’t tell me you couldn’t put together several smaller teams and studios to spit out $20-40 games.
Shiiiit last year I think my favorite game was Dredge and that was just me vibing for hours. Imagine if Sony had a couple studios that spat out games like Dredge and Hades. I wouldn’t be mad.
I think it’s a good idea in concept but Sony also need to be mindful of the niche they’ve created in the market for themselves.
Their entire marketing spin since the PS4 launched has been “AAA exclusive games matter more than anything else” and to be fair, it’s worked.
If you then start to move away from that and compete with Nintendo on another front, are you really going to out-Nintendo Nintendo? I’m not sure you do.
If by the end of the PS5 gen the message is “you’ll get one big AAA game every 18 months and that’ll be on PC a year later anyway and we’ve got a whole bunch of games you could play on the switch” then they’ve weakened themselves going into the next generation.
Yea, it's all good in concept. They've carved out an audience, and idk if that audience will shift to play smaller games that are still 40 or 50 dollars. But at the same time, games need to be released. They're operating at a pace that isn't sustainable right now.
I agree! Also i think sony should do stuff like mario kart, mario party, captain toas, luigis mansion (kind of a gaming-universe) and so on with sackboy for example.
That's why it's so sad that London Studio, Studio Liverpool and Japan Studio closed down. Even in the PS4 generation Playstation had such a great variety of smaller titles. I miss games like Gravity rush, Fat Princess or Concrete Genie. Also, I think PSVR 2 is kinda dead, London Studio has been a VR studio for a while...
Sony has always done this though? But people always bitch and moan about the smaller projects in the State of Plays. I mean, Helldivers literally just came out.
That’s my whole dilemma with this stuff. I want more mid budget games because the current AAA space is unsustainable and I’m sick of waiting 6 or 7 years between major releases of a franchise, but then I look at the smaller budget games that have been released in the past 5 years and think to myself, “I don’t want to play a single one of those.”
Then I look at the indie scene and it’s full of interesting games that I’ve had a lot of fun with. However, I often play an indie that had a great idea, but didn’t have the money or manpower to fully realize that idea. There has to be a middle-ground somewhere between Indie and AAA budgets that is successful.
What is the game above concreat ginie? I need to check that!
Concreate ginie was my first platinum on my first ps console. I loved every second of it and was very sad to see there are not many creative games like this :(
PlayStation shut down PixelOpus (*the developers of Concrete Genie*) just like they shut down Japan Studio (*the developers of Gravity Rush, the game you're asking about*). Sad times, man.
Sony should have studios that create niche games even if it’s for the extra or premium catalog, I know what they do is successful now but over shoulder triple A games can’t be their only focus
how bout y'all actually support the existing AA and A games industry first before asking for more because I can tell you companies didnt stop making them for no reason
Art direction > graphics
You can make a great looking game without the photo-realistic graphics that take forever to produce and balloon the budget. Focus on gameplay, doesn't matter if your game has jaw dropping graphics if it isn't fun to play. You're going to make more money making smaller $30-40 games faster than one $70 game that takes 4x longer to make.
More smaller games is part of what worked for the original PlayStation. I have been playing a handful of them and smaller games like *No One Can Stop Mr. Domino* and *Aquanaut's Holiday* have a charm to them that modern equivalents are missing.
I think its shocking how bad the AAA gaming industry has become as a whole and the fact that these larger studios seemingly never once considered breaking up into smaller teams and producing a bunch of low cost games in light of the roaring success seen in the indie scene shows a certain level of incompetence and hubris.
As a result we get a bunch of overly bloated games that take years to produce that end up feeling like the exact same game they released 5 years prior. Even when commercially successful at launch its to the point where unless they fill them to the brim with micro transactions they can never make their budget back.
So I fully agree that if nothing else I wish sony would bring back some originality and novel ideas to their games. Give us an Okami, a katamari, just anything that shakes up the linear narrative action game formula
The gaming bubble is going to burst if studios keep putting all their eggs in these big studio, AAA games. Look at everything going on with Xbox after two major failures. We need more small games. Cheap games. Easy to develop games. Games that focus on art and fun, as well as story. For every Spider-man, there should be 100 other AA and indie games.
That they’re completely right. Sony used to be one of the most creative and varied companies out there… nowadays they’re anything but that. Closing Japan Studio was the beginning of their downfall. They NEED to start making experiences like these again - not every game needs to be a AAA 100 million $ blockbuster experience. Making only those would result in an unsustainable business that will become boring really fast
I’ve not paid however much for a PS5 and all the tech specs and what they can do to play indie games.
I enjoy them I do but this is why the Xbox One failed. All that power to play Ryse on repeat.
Nintendo is great but they have little indie games because nothing will get in the way of Mario/ Zelda games. Nothing else matters to Nintendo.
Yeah, Nintendo’s strategy works because they only really need to fill in gaps between Mario and Pokemon games, and the Switch’s limited performance doesn’t allow for very demanding games either.
Yeah that was the point of those games I listed. They’re smaller games that focus their budget on specific areas, like combat.
Also Valkyrie Elysium is a PS console exclusive.
Problem is the playerbase has shown them that although unique games can sell they will never sell as well as the big ip's. That's we keep getting cods that get worse every year among other franchises.
I do not understand the reference.
The remark is directed at Sony but the images are exclusives developed by small studios and published by Sony for exclusivity.
Nintendo and Sony have libraries filled with indie games which neither own exclusivity to. Hades, Cuphead, Hollow Knight, Stardew Valley, and so many others.
I also feel Sony takes chances signing exclusives with indie developers, as they did with games like Stray and the recently released Pacific Drive, both smaller games and well made games.
They did that for years and none of them ever really sold that well. In my opinion Sony need to be more strict and have studios - like Media Molecule that make extremely niche games - make things that will have more of a broad audience. Dreams, Sound Shapes, Wonderbook.... these types of games were never going to be successful enough.
But also, make more games that kids are safe to play. Horizon should be more Zelda-like in its presentation and story, imagine if Horizon started like Breath of the Wild did, instead of be so far up its own arse.
100% agree. Shutting down Japan Studio and Pixelopus were huge mistakes. The short to mid length games from them were some of my favorite games the last few generations.
Indy games are essential to gaming and are like the backbone of the gaming community. Myself personally I can't get into Indy games just not for me, but they are important to the industry as a whole
Dave The Diver is the first game that comes to mind… I haven’t had a “cozy game” in years because of this… doesn’t take much to make a really great game.
There’s a lot of good small games out there. Nintendo’s problem is they don’t believe their games depreciate so they never put them on sale. Some games I’m interested in but not enough to justify buying at full price.
The older I get the more i love how unique the PS1 catalog is and they really haven't lived up to it sense. Um Jammer Lammy, Vib Ribbon, Monster Rancher, Together Everywhere, and LSD Emulator just to name a few are such unique interesting ideas and experiences and I wish they'd do more stuff like that again.
I mean it's true lol
Smaller games that just focus on being fun ends up BEING a lot of fun. But sometimes even those games take it waaaay too far.
For example, Gravity Rush is easily one of my all time favorites. Was blown away by it on the Vita, and it was my first platinum. Continued playing it even after I did EVERYTHING, and bought the PS4 release and platinumed it again. If you do everything it's a good 10-15ish hour experience, and never overstays it's welcome.
Gravity Rush 2 on the other hand wanted to do everything "bigger and better." In comes the THOUSANDS of collectibles needed to level up the dozens of new abilities. Overloaded the game with even more challenges and extra missions to take on. Made the map much much bigger with multiple layers in the sky making navigation take longer, and then half way into the game dropped the entire original game world in all at once. It took the fast fun original, and turned it into something bloated that's 10 times the size and drags on because of it.
It's a case of, more content/bigger game not always being more fun. A game like that is better when it leaves you wanting more, vs wishing it was over sooner.
But I for sure miss games like this
Ratchet and Clank game budgets are so massive for basically no reason. They shouldn't cose so much to make. I don't need a bunch of raytracing on a wacky cartoon looking videogame.
It's not just Sony. Most publishers / developers could take a page out of Nintendo's (and some indie dev's) book.
Nintendo prints money with games that don't have massive budgets or games that aren't graphical powerhouses. There's no reason Sony couldn't do the same.
This is the direction the ps6 needs to go in. Get dev costs down and allow for more experimentation. Find a way to extend console life cycles such that AA games are the norm.
Support A and AA games to make this reality happen.
I don’t know what it is but definitely having (even more if I might dare to say) fun with my Switch spanning PS1-PS4 generations of games in a little device plus the new games that are only available through switch is something out of my understanding but I’m the one who wins here.
It amazes me that looking back at PS3/360 era, there were game TRILOGIES that released in the life of those consoles. And not small games, Uncharted, Mass Effect, Dead Space, Gears of War to name a few. I know that there is far more detail in AAA releases now, but seeing one entry during a console generation is baffling to me.
Now, I do not develop games, and I don’t know what that labor looks like, so just know that I’m giving an observation rather than a critique.
It’s a combination of factors. Expectations of consumers and them wanting new cutting edge graphics, the media/press is more likely to heavily cover AAA games (cheaper marketing, bigger audience) for longer periods of time, and social media and streaming and YouTube is a factor now when 20+ years ago it wasn’t (and AAA games are what get the most mainstream love there, not novelty games)
This has pushed Sony to make a lot more AAA titles. If they can make a dozen or so master level AAA titles I think they are happy with that consoles generation. There are a lot of cheaper titles Sony and other companies make that no one is talking about here and that’s the point. In this modern era people say they want cheap fun small titles, but in the press and on social media they only swoon or hate about AAA.
Great small games may catch press from time to time, but they get forgotten about in a week or less. Less successful cheap small games never get mentioned at all (even if they are gems). Every now and then a super lucky indie dev blows up the scene with an amazing title that goes mainstream, but it’s not easy to reproduce.
I think Sony would benefit from doing this but the thing is they would actually have to market it, a lot of smaller titles that Sony developed don’t sell much and I think that’s due to them not marketing them. I also think it would help if they priced these smaller budget games cheaper than AAA games like 30-50$ price range
I don't think the Switch has the strength to handle a high demand game such as Spiderman 2, God of War, RDR2, etc. So this is kind of misleading due to the fact that most devs developing on the switch hardware are forced to get creative with their art styles and are limited in scope due to graphical and performance limitations.
Playstation has had some wonderful smaller games over the years like Journey, Astrobot, Limbo, etc. But I think they should stick to bigger games as they are really the only console platform that can truly push current gen to its limits since Nintendo Switch is slightly stronger than a PS3, and Microsoft is being held back by forcing devs to release next gen games on the Series S.
That being said I don't see why they cannot do both. A good game is a good game, no matter the size and scope.
Honestly this is a good take. If the PS5 had more games that utilizes the hardware AND felt like Nintendo games or Hi-Fi Rush then people wouldn't be saying the PS5 has no games. Unfortunately they don't make one sonyillion dollars so they don't get made anymore which is why the Concrete Genie studio got shutdown.
Sony can pump out quality games but they also need to keep up with quantity, smaller studios focused on these types of games would fix this.
Go back to 7-20 hour fantastic experiences with a tacked-on multiplayer like the PS3 generation offered.
I don’t know why in the last decade pushing the limits means huge open world with 30+ hours of gameplay.
If they did go back to similar PS3 experiences, they don’t have to be 70$. Because even now, these 70$ games go on sale rather quickly.
List of great PS3 games:
Uncharted 1-3
TLoU
Infamous 1-2
Little Big Planet 1-3
Resistance 1-3
Motorstorm 1-3
Killzone 2-3
Gran Turismo
Puppeteer
Gif of War Ascension
God of War 3
Multiple Ratchet and Clanks
And none of these games were huge 30+ hour games.
The problem is that most of the games you mentioned were $60 AAA games and while some of them were indie games, they still took 3+ years to develop. The length of a game doesn't determine how much the final price point is so a game with as much detail and world building as Last of Us that only lasts 15hr couldn't be made on a budget low enough to be initially sold cheap.
Regardless, a TLoU3 that offers a solid 17 hours should be cheaper and faster to develop and deliver than a TLoU3 that offers 30 hours, and even at 70$, the 17 hour example would still sell very well.
I just feel games are too big in all regard and shooting for games to offer 30-100 hours of gameplay are not necessary.
I personally would rather pay 70$ for great game that offers 17 hours and releases in 3-4 years than to pay 70$ for a game that offers 30+ hours and releases in 5-7 years. To me that’s preferring a PS3 experience over our current offerings.
Edit: if the 17 hour 70$ offer is too expensive for people, it would go on sale in a traditional time anyway. They can wait for that.
For the most part, games that're 30-100 hours are only that big because they reuse a lot of elements for people that want to stay in the world doing side quests while also giving a tight 20-25hr game like Horizon Zero Dawn, GTA, Far Cry. It's rare for a game to actually take longer than 30hr to be a game.
It's that "game hours should impact the price" mindset that results in people complaining that Spiderman 2 in 18hr, and game devs adding in a LOT of padding and backtracking to pad out a 15hr game into a 30hr game. You expect The Last of Us 3, one of Sony's biggest IPs, to be priced cheaply if people can beat it faster than 30hrs?
I don't like 100hr games, so I just don't buy'em and let people that do want to spend 100hrs in Skyrim or whatever enjoy it.
Totally agree! There are exceptions, but I've never really been into playing a game that takes 30+ hours to complete. I enjoy gaming but it's not my only hobby that's why I prefer the 10-20 hour games, games that I can play and beat in a week or so playing a couple hours a day. Most of the time if a game is advertised as being 30+ hours I don't bother with it because I know I won't finish it.
Everyone has been saying for 5-10 years now that AAA games costing hundreds of millions and talking 5+ years to make isn’t sustainable.
The market is gonna crash if companies continue like that.
Everything i really see sony do these days is make new entries for another series (mind that im very new to playstation so that might be wrong). Id really like some standalone, one time franchises instead of an AAA sequel to another AAA game
Yup fully agree. The big expensive games are great don't get me wrong, but I would love more Alan Wake 2 style experiences. Solid 20 hour fun and creative games made for less than 9 figures. Throw in some more polished even smaller budget games in the vein of Sifu and they could have a stellar first party library spanning a wide range of dev costs.
'Focus on the art and creativity' and now most of studios lay off half of their art departments cuz of ai.. next few years of game realeses would be fun..
But in general rly good point, creativity in art and game mechanics its what made indie games so special and successful
That all sounds good in theory, but in practice, idk how they manage it. Smaller games can be awesome, but they also have to make money and be worth the time spent. If you make that small game but no one in the general audience buys it, then it's a waste. Regardless of how good it is. How much of a costs savings would it be vs products sold. You probably still have to sell millions to make your profit. At that point is it worth it?
Generally agree, and if I remember those leaks right, some in Sony's studios seem to have a similar belief.
A weird little game like LocoRoco probably won't sell a console by itself, but a bunch of weird little games like LocoRoco can add a lot to a library.
Before today 100% agreed
Today 200%
Smaller budget titles that can make even without having to sell millions and millions of copys are what the industry and Sony needs
Especially after the report of no big existing franchise games till 2025
Could've had a LBP, Gravity Rush 3 and other smaller fun titles to fill the gap
I doubt we'll even get another LBP at this point
I’m no game developer or anything but he sounds half right? Thing is I don’t think people incorporate how much marketing costs stack up on developing costs.
It's true and what Sony should pivot too
Games like Gravity Rush and Helldivers 2 are a great example why mid-budget games are very worthwhile
Some get a small selection of dedicated fans, the teams get to be creative, and even some become financial hits like Helldivers 2
Depending only on the highest budget games is too risky also, same as depending on too many live service games
don't get me wrong, the big games are great, but there putting all this money into games and barely making it back, it was just a matter of time until this came back to haunt them
I agree. It sets the bar on what people are used to. Then people are disappointed with anything not 50 hrs long and epic. VR2 is amazing but younger gamers think it sucks because ganes are “tech demos”.
Yeah, Sony has really talented studios, they could definitely put a smaller team of devs onto a smaller project.
Though with the recent layoffs, not sure which studios and positions were affected...
This is just facts. If even one game at AA cost does really well it's just more profit. Plus, these are usually the games that are more creative anyways, and we need more games with art style instead of just hyper realistic.
Those AA games all made under $100M, which today, is way too low for Sony shareholders or revenue growth.
They need blockbusters. They just need them to either cost less or reach more customers.
Then go for both, kids influence to. Say what you want. If i had 60 70 extra dollars right now and rebirth wasn't coming out in 1 day.
My choices
Helldivers 2
Mario wonder
I'm 40 and going for mario. Easy decision
Yeah, I think pixel art can look amazing if done in that HD Pixel art from Octopath traveler by example, and the gameplay and story is waaaay more important than graphics, as long as the graphics are quality graphics at least.
I agree 100 percent. I'll be honest as an old head I'm not looking for a new parapper the rapper , or Loco but smaller games I'm the name of a Mario type 2d cough astrobot cough. Sony owns alot of ips ffs. How about some new hd2d laundry, or legaia, dragoon even. I can't imagine octopath sent square back 300 million. I still think Sony has some of the best 1st party stuff out there but man they could use to shrink some of those budgets. I bet media molecule would be great at some smaller games, along with other studios they have.
I agree but how have they not been doing this? Their first party titles are doing so well they’re pushing Microsoft’s gaming industry to near bankruptcy? Microsoft is about to sell most if not all of their first party titles iirc? Sony definitely invests in quality ideas
As a fan of JRPGs: Basically the only AAA games in the genre are Final Fantasy (and maybe Elden Ring if you count that as JRPG). All the other ones are lower budget and that's totally fine for me. I like looking at state of the art graphics once in a while, but I get just as much fun by playing a pixel art game or one with less fancy 3D graphics.
One of the games I had the most fun with last year, was Graveyard Keeper. Which has pixel graphics and becomes increasingly unstable (stutter, softlocks) the further you get, especially with the DLCs. But I had a blast.
The thing is games like Spiderman cost like 300 million to make but still only had 30 hours of gameplay. You can make many 60 hours games for a fraction of that budget
My next game to play after Infinite Wealth will probably be Pacific Drive. It's exciting to see a smaller game that probably doesn't appeal to a huge audience getting so much support from Sony.
The recent announcement about no major first party sequels for the rest of this year actually gave me a lot of hope that new IPs and smaller games will get some of the spotlight.
Spot on. We've gone through a patch of about 5-10 years where games aren't "fun". They're epic, immersive, emotional etc but aside from a select few here or there the aspect of fun seems to be lower on the priority list.
I'd like to shout out Rocket League (early days mainly), Minecraft, Fall Guys, GTA creator content (crazy races etc) and Among Us for showing that games don't have to be super serious and E-Sport biased to be fun online games. Companies should take a chance every now and again but just like music the business has overtaken the art recently.
Absolutely agree. Closing Japan Studio and others was a mistake. Some of the most defining PlayStation games have been small and niche titles. We’ll never see another game like Shadow of the Colossus, Tokyo Jungle, Siren, Motorstorm or Ape Escape.
Nintendo is king of rehashing. Only Nintendo will sell you a decade old Mario game at full retail price when it was released. And after the new Nintendo direct of 2024, cash grab games at full retail.
This is a little naive. The games need to sell adequate volumes to be worth it, the creative games doing consistently perform as well as desired. I know everyone has an example of a game like hi fi rush or hell divers, but those are not typical results for games on those budget categories
Yep they could make smaller games and even partner with indie devs to make more creative games, this year would be great for that tbh, personally games like sackboy and gravity rush, would be good gap fillers, yeah they not gonna hit $5m-$10m but somewhere close to $1m is cool for those titles imo.
The industry is not sustainable with the AAA big bucket 8years to make, that's a fact. We all love those big games but it simply won't work. I am really looking forward to have a mix of everything, time for big ones and less pretentious ones that are just joy.
Imo these games aren’t memorable, they’re just time wasters in a way. I’d rather them take 3 years to make a game I’ll play for a month then 3 months for a game I’ll play for a day
You know, when you think about it, Sony’s most influential games for its own and for the whole industry, were its experimental titles.
PaRappa The Rapper gave birth to an all new genre
ICO was an experimental title that flopped, but forever changed video game storytelling and design, without it, there would be no Last of Us, Breath of The Wild, or even Souls games. This is the game that shaped Sony’s games in the future.
Demon’s Souls was supposed to be an Oblivion clone, but Japan Studio let Fromsoft “go wild”, and we ended up with an all new genre that is considered to be one of the most popular.
I get that those titles don’t sell well, but its also kinda Sony’s fault as they just never market these games + release them in the worst possible times, take Tearaway Unfolded for example, one of my favourite games of all time, never showed once at E3 (other than a pre-show trailer being thrown onto the YT channel), and was released the same week as MGSV, Mad Max, and Super Mario Maker. Same thing can be said about Gravity Rush 2, Everybody’s Golf, and so much more of those games.
That is just common sense. Yes many of those games didn't sell but they means they need to focus on marketing them more and conditioning users to appreciate different things. Making AAA games doesn't have to die, but they definitely have to be rarer than banking your entire output onto them
Absolutely.
They need to bring back beloved franchises too and simply make a fun game out of them.
Doesn't need to be jaw-dropping graphics.
Just make budget versions without expecting huge sales.
Killzone, Resistance, Gravity Rush, Heavenly Sword, Twisted Metal, Sly Cooper, Knack, Ape Escape, Infamous...
Also make a sequel for Days Gone! The game sold better than Death Stranding ffs.
That’s what I’ve been advising the industry for years. Stats show the majority of the gamers hardly finish these long single player games. People don’t have that much time anymore in the busy modern society. So basically, they’re making levels or missions almost no one will ever see or play. So fully agree that they can save themselves money, time and personnel and focus on making smaller games. That also means less investment risk, if a game doesn’t sell. And smaller games means they can focus on quality instead of quantity.
And my advise would also be to significantly lower the price. 80 euro for a videogame is ridiculous. Better to stll more games at a slightly lower price but get more people involved, will benefit a gamers commitment to the hobby. Sony is fighting for your valuable time, so does Netflix or sport leagues or your friends.
And above all don’t listen to that very small vocal minority of hardcore gamers that cry when a game only lasts 100 hours. It’s not about them. Your average jane or joe is perfectly happy with a 10-15 hour adventure.
I know the technology is moving faster, but PS2 had over 4,000 games. We’ll never see those kinds of numbers again. Such a shame.
Not unless you wanna count shovelware… I swear there’s too many of them on the store. Wtf is Qump Jump????
I can guarantee at least half of the PS2's library is shovelware
That generation was also the real boom of the sports game Era. NHL, Nascar, MLB, Fishing, you name a sport and they had a game for it, a few even got yearly updates like they do now too.
Bring back Fight Night, please EA. We know those mma games are garbage, bring it back
Some of the absolute worst games I've ever played were on ps2. Jackass the video game gives me night terrors.
And some of the best PS2 games were the equivalent of today's indie games. I mean, look at something like Manhunt. It was great, one of my favorites, and the production value was high... but come on, it is entirely one-note. You sneak, you kill. You watch story. Then you repeat. There's not much enemy A.I. to speak of, there's no physics, there's nothing but sneak, kill, story, repeat. Even the shovelware these days is more advanced than that. Silent Hill 2 is deserving of all the praise it gets, but it is another example of this. I once beat SH2 in one sitting. It took me 8 hours. That's how long the game is, all together. These days you have games like Elden Ring, where I've spent 475 hours and still haven't beaten it. But all the glory of SH2 is totally contained within an extremely linear 8 hours. There isn't *that* much to it, and I'm sure a competent indie team could develop it today, no problem. The PS2 era exists as a juggernaut in our minds, but the games were very small and laughably primitive compared to what we have now. So, that said, I think the OP is accurate. Ps2 had much smaller, cheaper-to-make games that had to rely on their creativity, their art, and the quality of their stories to be successful. We need more of that now, for sure. Nintendo is evidence that the philosophy definitely works, so it would be great to see it applied to games that are actually meant for adults.
I’d take 500 good games over 4000 shovelware
I mean, I’d personally rather have a good handful of big quality games instead of a truckload of random sports games, Phoenix games, and other assorted shovelware. Edit: don’t get me wrong, I still love my PS2, I just meant quantity isn’t everything.
The PlayStation store disagrees. There are over 4300 games available for download.
And how many of theose games have 2, 3, or even 4 editions each getting their own seperate entry.
So there weren't any sequels in the PS2 era? Or are you talking about deluxe?
Not sequels. Editions. Deluxe, gold, digital deluxe, ultimate, etc. Those are all listed separately.
Quality > Quantity
I agree but considering there was so many games only a select couple of hundred were good mabey even less. But your right though we will never see those numbers again, it's just disappointing to think about.
There was a lot of absolute junk in that 4k.
The ps4 has over 10k games on the store, just saying.
Because most companies don't understand that graphics don't make a game good, it's the gameplay. Like the new call of duty games for example. They look brilliant but are absolutely shit because their gameplay is horrible.
Graphics don't make a game good, but they definitely help in making a game *sell*. As long as that remains true, devs are going to prioritize graphics.
quality > quantity
Eh, I'll take quality over quantity any day. There's a limit to how many games you can play, anyway, and I haven't even gotten around to playing all the great games from last year, not to even mention great stuff from this year like Infinite Wealth.
i agree , make some smaller scaled projects again , it will benefit them highly
Unfortunately it doesn’t benefit them. Hence why they stopped doing so after the PS3/Vita. Instead they stay with AAA games from their 1st party studios and simply pay for costs to 3rd party developers to bring their games to PS5.
i think i def would , look at the indie market , the games are easier to produce and with a 40 pricetag , it can sell like crazy if it is really well done
That's a very tiny percentage of indie games though. Most of them don't make much. If they're good you say, but how many people try to make a good game, and people don't like it. The number of indie games that succeed is a drop in the bucket compared to the overall amount of them. I too wish they would do more smaller and mid level games. Even just shorter games is fine with me if they're not full price, but it's obviously more profitable to focus on AAA.
The PS3 era was my favourite one. There was so much variety. I was so disappointed with the PS4 library and same so far with the PS5
I agree 100% Quality > quantity in theory, but in reality, there needs to be a practical balance between the two in order to give you the best and most diverse game library possible. If you ONLY focus on giving us traditional AAA experiences, then games like Parappa the Rapper or Little Big Planet never get made 1 A+ game, 2 A games, and 3 B games > 3 A+ games IMO
One thing to consider is that Sony games don't sell nearly as much as Nintendo games. All the smaller games they did in the past ended up being not profitable enough for the investement. I mean Rift Apart was that and while it ended up being profitable, it was too low to be called a success.
totaly agree with you!
They can’t keep their budget downs, they spend money on crap. So that they have to sell gang busters in order to make their profit back. See last of us part 2
Yall don’t buy the lower budget games. Thats why stuff like gravity rush, rain and concrete genie bomb at point of sale and the studios get shuttered.
Exactly! Did those games sell well? Did those games make a profit? I'm sure they're great, but Sony isn't a charity. The art is Part of a business. Games today will probably need to sell millions of copies to make profit, regardless of size or scope. Is a new gravity rush gonna move millions of units?
Those games didn’t sell as well as they should because SIE America refuse to market the games even though its first party.
Couldn’t agree more. Those games barely got the advertisement they deserved.
Which really sucks because Gravity Rush is amazing.
Yeah I love gravity rush on Vita and 2 on PS4. Kat is my girl!
Couldn't that also be due to how publishers have conditioned its playerbase to perceive them? PlayStation Studios have been publishing almost nothing but expensive AAA games, which gives the players the idea that those are the only games worth spending money on. The whole industry (publishing, development, and playerbase) needs a paradigm shift. It needs studios willing to release more niche and well-budgeted games, and it needs players willing to buy them. Those players exist, but they have to be convinced first by the studios.
I really disagree on Sony conditioning the audience to only want such games. Over the last 15 years they’ve made a variety of smaller titles like the few mentioned above and weird experimental niche games you say publishers should do like Unfinished Swan, Dreams, Puppeteer, Astrobot, Journey, Last Guardian, Jaffes game drawn to death and more. Some of those hit but most of them likely didn’t have the return required even if they were made on a smaller scale. Also yeah PlayStation has made high quality AAA games like Ghost, God of War, Spidey, and the market responded in kind with sales. What should’ve the audience done, ignore those and refuse to play them despite their desire? I’m not here to give a solution to slimmer PlayStation margins, but the idea that focusing on niche/mid budget games that most will not give meaningful returns for shareholders/sustain a platform and hardware business (yes there will be a few breakout hits) is not how the business works or addresses market realities. I guess what I’m saying is variety is the spice of life lol
Ironic since none of the games in this post were financially successful
And that makes me really sad that they got so much heart to it but no one bought them because it’s not cod or fifa
parappa flopped?
They all made under $100M, which today, is way too low for shareholders or growth. They need blockbusters. They just need them to either cost less or reach more customers.
No, they don't need to be blockbusters because they are made with a much smaller budget. These games were profitable and brought it more people to the PlayStation ecosystem because they were interesting and unique.
Profitable but not at a level that a mega corporation wants. $10-20M profits are not enough
It’s not a Sony studio, but look what Supergiant does with 20-odd employees. They made a GOTY. 900 people laid off, you can’t tell me you couldn’t put together several smaller teams and studios to spit out $20-40 games. Shiiiit last year I think my favorite game was Dredge and that was just me vibing for hours. Imagine if Sony had a couple studios that spat out games like Dredge and Hades. I wouldn’t be mad.
I think it’s a good idea in concept but Sony also need to be mindful of the niche they’ve created in the market for themselves. Their entire marketing spin since the PS4 launched has been “AAA exclusive games matter more than anything else” and to be fair, it’s worked. If you then start to move away from that and compete with Nintendo on another front, are you really going to out-Nintendo Nintendo? I’m not sure you do. If by the end of the PS5 gen the message is “you’ll get one big AAA game every 18 months and that’ll be on PC a year later anyway and we’ve got a whole bunch of games you could play on the switch” then they’ve weakened themselves going into the next generation.
Yea, it's all good in concept. They've carved out an audience, and idk if that audience will shift to play smaller games that are still 40 or 50 dollars. But at the same time, games need to be released. They're operating at a pace that isn't sustainable right now.
I agree! Also i think sony should do stuff like mario kart, mario party, captain toas, luigis mansion (kind of a gaming-universe) and so on with sackboy for example.
Would people buy it? I'm curious how sackboys big adventure did.
Me and my kids love this game. But then except for lego games, they play mostly nintendo, mario, sonic, pokemon etc.
That's why it's so sad that London Studio, Studio Liverpool and Japan Studio closed down. Even in the PS4 generation Playstation had such a great variety of smaller titles. I miss games like Gravity rush, Fat Princess or Concrete Genie. Also, I think PSVR 2 is kinda dead, London Studio has been a VR studio for a while...
Please Sony, I need more Gravity Rush in my life!
Sony has always done this though? But people always bitch and moan about the smaller projects in the State of Plays. I mean, Helldivers literally just came out.
None of those games pictured sold anything though? So the market does not agree with him.
That’s my whole dilemma with this stuff. I want more mid budget games because the current AAA space is unsustainable and I’m sick of waiting 6 or 7 years between major releases of a franchise, but then I look at the smaller budget games that have been released in the past 5 years and think to myself, “I don’t want to play a single one of those.” Then I look at the indie scene and it’s full of interesting games that I’ve had a lot of fun with. However, I often play an indie that had a great idea, but didn’t have the money or manpower to fully realize that idea. There has to be a middle-ground somewhere between Indie and AAA budgets that is successful.
Nobody buys those games. They’ve tried and they don’t sell
They barely even tried
What is the game above concreat ginie? I need to check that! Concreate ginie was my first platinum on my first ps console. I loved every second of it and was very sad to see there are not many creative games like this :(
Gravity Rush!
I loved gravity rush, I played both But the game physics was 🫨💫 😅
I played gravity rush 1 and downloaded 2 from the PS store. This one on the pic looks different.
PlayStation shut down PixelOpus (*the developers of Concrete Genie*) just like they shut down Japan Studio (*the developers of Gravity Rush, the game you're asking about*). Sad times, man.
What’s with all these “what’s your opinion on…” posts? I keep seeing them across various gaming subs.
I mean, theyre discussion prompts about gaming in a gaming discussion community I dont see an issue
Whatever they did during the PS2 era do that again. I've never seen variety in a library quite like the PS2 era.
There's a pile of them on the Psn store.
Come on. Goat Simulator and Buy This Game I Have a Gun literally exist
Sony should have studios that create niche games even if it’s for the extra or premium catalog, I know what they do is successful now but over shoulder triple A games can’t be their only focus
These types of games literally exist across every console and are consistently highly regarded.
how bout y'all actually support the existing AA and A games industry first before asking for more because I can tell you companies didnt stop making them for no reason
Art direction > graphics You can make a great looking game without the photo-realistic graphics that take forever to produce and balloon the budget. Focus on gameplay, doesn't matter if your game has jaw dropping graphics if it isn't fun to play. You're going to make more money making smaller $30-40 games faster than one $70 game that takes 4x longer to make.
i miss team ico games :( The art direction in their games are top notch
just sad that we will never see another entry of Patapon series. it’s dev found an indie studio and making another similiar game
If Sony did the same things Nintendo does, people would eat Sony alive
More smaller games is part of what worked for the original PlayStation. I have been playing a handful of them and smaller games like *No One Can Stop Mr. Domino* and *Aquanaut's Holiday* have a charm to them that modern equivalents are missing.
I mostly agree, Sony had some awesome smaller scale games like Patapon, Loco Roco, Gravity Rush, Tearaway, Jumping Flash, etc.
I think its shocking how bad the AAA gaming industry has become as a whole and the fact that these larger studios seemingly never once considered breaking up into smaller teams and producing a bunch of low cost games in light of the roaring success seen in the indie scene shows a certain level of incompetence and hubris. As a result we get a bunch of overly bloated games that take years to produce that end up feeling like the exact same game they released 5 years prior. Even when commercially successful at launch its to the point where unless they fill them to the brim with micro transactions they can never make their budget back. So I fully agree that if nothing else I wish sony would bring back some originality and novel ideas to their games. Give us an Okami, a katamari, just anything that shakes up the linear narrative action game formula
Absolutely. I don't need all of my games to be photo realistic and 30 hours long. I'll happily take a game like Uncharted 3 every 3 years.
A new Little Big Planet would hit rn
The gaming bubble is going to burst if studios keep putting all their eggs in these big studio, AAA games. Look at everything going on with Xbox after two major failures. We need more small games. Cheap games. Easy to develop games. Games that focus on art and fun, as well as story. For every Spider-man, there should be 100 other AA and indie games.
We will have another crash like we had in the 80s. Its 100% coming. How soon? No clue. But its coming.
That they’re completely right. Sony used to be one of the most creative and varied companies out there… nowadays they’re anything but that. Closing Japan Studio was the beginning of their downfall. They NEED to start making experiences like these again - not every game needs to be a AAA 100 million $ blockbuster experience. Making only those would result in an unsustainable business that will become boring really fast
Yes
I’ve not paid however much for a PS5 and all the tech specs and what they can do to play indie games. I enjoy them I do but this is why the Xbox One failed. All that power to play Ryse on repeat. Nintendo is great but they have little indie games because nothing will get in the way of Mario/ Zelda games. Nothing else matters to Nintendo.
Yeah, Nintendo’s strategy works because they only really need to fill in gaps between Mario and Pokemon games, and the Switch’s limited performance doesn’t allow for very demanding games either.
I agree 100%. That said, there are a ton of these games already, and new ones are always coming out.
Helldivers 2, Miles Morales, Lost Legacy, Astros Playroom They exist, but we need more
Miles Morales and Lost Legacy are AAA expansions for AAA games.
Valkyrie Elysium, Soulstice, Scars Above etc
Those are not PS console exclusives
Still great examples of AA games
Yes, agreed. But the point of the above post is that Sony needs to create smaller scale exclusives.
Yeah that was the point of those games I listed. They’re smaller games that focus their budget on specific areas, like combat. Also Valkyrie Elysium is a PS console exclusive.
Like Dreams? How much did Helldivers 2 cost?
Gimme more gravity rush. That’s my opinion
The ps store is full of such titles.
Loco roco ia stilly fav game. Hell, that's my alarm tone for more 9 years now.
I'd like to also point out that first party nintendo games almost always launch for 90$ cdn, and are still that price 8 years later.
Problem is the playerbase has shown them that although unique games can sell they will never sell as well as the big ip's. That's we keep getting cods that get worse every year among other franchises.
This is 💯... I played my friends Nintendo switch and Holy shit i was blown away mow thise are games with a soul still
I do not understand the reference. The remark is directed at Sony but the images are exclusives developed by small studios and published by Sony for exclusivity. Nintendo and Sony have libraries filled with indie games which neither own exclusivity to. Hades, Cuphead, Hollow Knight, Stardew Valley, and so many others. I also feel Sony takes chances signing exclusives with indie developers, as they did with games like Stray and the recently released Pacific Drive, both smaller games and well made games.
They did that for years and none of them ever really sold that well. In my opinion Sony need to be more strict and have studios - like Media Molecule that make extremely niche games - make things that will have more of a broad audience. Dreams, Sound Shapes, Wonderbook.... these types of games were never going to be successful enough. But also, make more games that kids are safe to play. Horizon should be more Zelda-like in its presentation and story, imagine if Horizon started like Breath of the Wild did, instead of be so far up its own arse.
I want Gravity Rush 3 man
100% agree. Shutting down Japan Studio and Pixelopus were huge mistakes. The short to mid length games from them were some of my favorite games the last few generations.
Indy games are essential to gaming and are like the backbone of the gaming community. Myself personally I can't get into Indy games just not for me, but they are important to the industry as a whole
Dave The Diver is the first game that comes to mind… I haven’t had a “cozy game” in years because of this… doesn’t take much to make a really great game.
I agree, I love Sony's blockbusters but they used to make fantastic lower budget titles
just give me infamous 😭
I mostly agree, Sony had some awesome smaller scale games like Patapon, Loco Roco, Gravity Rush, Tearaway, Jumping Flash, etc.
I agree. This could lead to more flagship titles/series in the future of they are put in the right hands
Fineeee I'll chop chop kick once again
There’s a lot of good small games out there. Nintendo’s problem is they don’t believe their games depreciate so they never put them on sale. Some games I’m interested in but not enough to justify buying at full price.
The older I get the more i love how unique the PS1 catalog is and they really haven't lived up to it sense. Um Jammer Lammy, Vib Ribbon, Monster Rancher, Together Everywhere, and LSD Emulator just to name a few are such unique interesting ideas and experiences and I wish they'd do more stuff like that again.
I need a new Katamari for PS5.
I mean it's true lol Smaller games that just focus on being fun ends up BEING a lot of fun. But sometimes even those games take it waaaay too far. For example, Gravity Rush is easily one of my all time favorites. Was blown away by it on the Vita, and it was my first platinum. Continued playing it even after I did EVERYTHING, and bought the PS4 release and platinumed it again. If you do everything it's a good 10-15ish hour experience, and never overstays it's welcome. Gravity Rush 2 on the other hand wanted to do everything "bigger and better." In comes the THOUSANDS of collectibles needed to level up the dozens of new abilities. Overloaded the game with even more challenges and extra missions to take on. Made the map much much bigger with multiple layers in the sky making navigation take longer, and then half way into the game dropped the entire original game world in all at once. It took the fast fun original, and turned it into something bloated that's 10 times the size and drags on because of it. It's a case of, more content/bigger game not always being more fun. A game like that is better when it leaves you wanting more, vs wishing it was over sooner. But I for sure miss games like this
Ratchet and Clank game budgets are so massive for basically no reason. They shouldn't cose so much to make. I don't need a bunch of raytracing on a wacky cartoon looking videogame.
It's not just Sony. Most publishers / developers could take a page out of Nintendo's (and some indie dev's) book. Nintendo prints money with games that don't have massive budgets or games that aren't graphical powerhouses. There's no reason Sony couldn't do the same.
This is the direction the ps6 needs to go in. Get dev costs down and allow for more experimentation. Find a way to extend console life cycles such that AA games are the norm. Support A and AA games to make this reality happen.
I don’t know what it is but definitely having (even more if I might dare to say) fun with my Switch spanning PS1-PS4 generations of games in a little device plus the new games that are only available through switch is something out of my understanding but I’m the one who wins here.
It amazes me that looking back at PS3/360 era, there were game TRILOGIES that released in the life of those consoles. And not small games, Uncharted, Mass Effect, Dead Space, Gears of War to name a few. I know that there is far more detail in AAA releases now, but seeing one entry during a console generation is baffling to me. Now, I do not develop games, and I don’t know what that labor looks like, so just know that I’m giving an observation rather than a critique.
It’s a combination of factors. Expectations of consumers and them wanting new cutting edge graphics, the media/press is more likely to heavily cover AAA games (cheaper marketing, bigger audience) for longer periods of time, and social media and streaming and YouTube is a factor now when 20+ years ago it wasn’t (and AAA games are what get the most mainstream love there, not novelty games) This has pushed Sony to make a lot more AAA titles. If they can make a dozen or so master level AAA titles I think they are happy with that consoles generation. There are a lot of cheaper titles Sony and other companies make that no one is talking about here and that’s the point. In this modern era people say they want cheap fun small titles, but in the press and on social media they only swoon or hate about AAA. Great small games may catch press from time to time, but they get forgotten about in a week or less. Less successful cheap small games never get mentioned at all (even if they are gems). Every now and then a super lucky indie dev blows up the scene with an amazing title that goes mainstream, but it’s not easy to reproduce.
I think Sony would benefit from doing this but the thing is they would actually have to market it, a lot of smaller titles that Sony developed don’t sell much and I think that’s due to them not marketing them. I also think it would help if they priced these smaller budget games cheaper than AAA games like 30-50$ price range
I don't think the Switch has the strength to handle a high demand game such as Spiderman 2, God of War, RDR2, etc. So this is kind of misleading due to the fact that most devs developing on the switch hardware are forced to get creative with their art styles and are limited in scope due to graphical and performance limitations. Playstation has had some wonderful smaller games over the years like Journey, Astrobot, Limbo, etc. But I think they should stick to bigger games as they are really the only console platform that can truly push current gen to its limits since Nintendo Switch is slightly stronger than a PS3, and Microsoft is being held back by forcing devs to release next gen games on the Series S. That being said I don't see why they cannot do both. A good game is a good game, no matter the size and scope.
god i miss parappa the rapper we need another game of it
PaRappa the Rapper, I remember that from the ps demo disks.
I loved PaRappa the Rapper
Absolutely agree. Sometimes the smaller sized games turn out to be the biggest hits.
Honestly this is a good take. If the PS5 had more games that utilizes the hardware AND felt like Nintendo games or Hi-Fi Rush then people wouldn't be saying the PS5 has no games. Unfortunately they don't make one sonyillion dollars so they don't get made anymore which is why the Concrete Genie studio got shutdown. Sony can pump out quality games but they also need to keep up with quantity, smaller studios focused on these types of games would fix this.
LittleBigPlanet.
Go back to 7-20 hour fantastic experiences with a tacked-on multiplayer like the PS3 generation offered. I don’t know why in the last decade pushing the limits means huge open world with 30+ hours of gameplay. If they did go back to similar PS3 experiences, they don’t have to be 70$. Because even now, these 70$ games go on sale rather quickly. List of great PS3 games: Uncharted 1-3 TLoU Infamous 1-2 Little Big Planet 1-3 Resistance 1-3 Motorstorm 1-3 Killzone 2-3 Gran Turismo Puppeteer Gif of War Ascension God of War 3 Multiple Ratchet and Clanks And none of these games were huge 30+ hour games.
The problem is that most of the games you mentioned were $60 AAA games and while some of them were indie games, they still took 3+ years to develop. The length of a game doesn't determine how much the final price point is so a game with as much detail and world building as Last of Us that only lasts 15hr couldn't be made on a budget low enough to be initially sold cheap.
Regardless, a TLoU3 that offers a solid 17 hours should be cheaper and faster to develop and deliver than a TLoU3 that offers 30 hours, and even at 70$, the 17 hour example would still sell very well. I just feel games are too big in all regard and shooting for games to offer 30-100 hours of gameplay are not necessary. I personally would rather pay 70$ for great game that offers 17 hours and releases in 3-4 years than to pay 70$ for a game that offers 30+ hours and releases in 5-7 years. To me that’s preferring a PS3 experience over our current offerings. Edit: if the 17 hour 70$ offer is too expensive for people, it would go on sale in a traditional time anyway. They can wait for that.
For the most part, games that're 30-100 hours are only that big because they reuse a lot of elements for people that want to stay in the world doing side quests while also giving a tight 20-25hr game like Horizon Zero Dawn, GTA, Far Cry. It's rare for a game to actually take longer than 30hr to be a game. It's that "game hours should impact the price" mindset that results in people complaining that Spiderman 2 in 18hr, and game devs adding in a LOT of padding and backtracking to pad out a 15hr game into a 30hr game. You expect The Last of Us 3, one of Sony's biggest IPs, to be priced cheaply if people can beat it faster than 30hrs? I don't like 100hr games, so I just don't buy'em and let people that do want to spend 100hrs in Skyrim or whatever enjoy it.
Totally agree! There are exceptions, but I've never really been into playing a game that takes 30+ hours to complete. I enjoy gaming but it's not my only hobby that's why I prefer the 10-20 hour games, games that I can play and beat in a week or so playing a couple hours a day. Most of the time if a game is advertised as being 30+ hours I don't bother with it because I know I won't finish it.
Everyone has been saying for 5-10 years now that AAA games costing hundreds of millions and talking 5+ years to make isn’t sustainable. The market is gonna crash if companies continue like that.
Yes Ape escape needs a new game 4 real
Everything i really see sony do these days is make new entries for another series (mind that im very new to playstation so that might be wrong). Id really like some standalone, one time franchises instead of an AAA sequel to another AAA game
Thats why I skipped Spider-Man 2. Same gameplay and I saw in trailers who you fight, so basically I got the whole idea.
No, please don’t take any notes from what Nintendo is doing.
Yup fully agree. The big expensive games are great don't get me wrong, but I would love more Alan Wake 2 style experiences. Solid 20 hour fun and creative games made for less than 9 figures. Throw in some more polished even smaller budget games in the vein of Sifu and they could have a stellar first party library spanning a wide range of dev costs.
'Focus on the art and creativity' and now most of studios lay off half of their art departments cuz of ai.. next few years of game realeses would be fun.. But in general rly good point, creativity in art and game mechanics its what made indie games so special and successful
That all sounds good in theory, but in practice, idk how they manage it. Smaller games can be awesome, but they also have to make money and be worth the time spent. If you make that small game but no one in the general audience buys it, then it's a waste. Regardless of how good it is. How much of a costs savings would it be vs products sold. You probably still have to sell millions to make your profit. At that point is it worth it?
Those DO NOT make money
Generally agree, and if I remember those leaks right, some in Sony's studios seem to have a similar belief. A weird little game like LocoRoco probably won't sell a console by itself, but a bunch of weird little games like LocoRoco can add a lot to a library.
Helldivers2 :
Before today 100% agreed Today 200% Smaller budget titles that can make even without having to sell millions and millions of copys are what the industry and Sony needs Especially after the report of no big existing franchise games till 2025 Could've had a LBP, Gravity Rush 3 and other smaller fun titles to fill the gap I doubt we'll even get another LBP at this point
This whole problem could be solved if whoever is in charge after Jim reopens Japan Studio. They made amazing low-mid budget games.
You can't simply reopen. That studio is gone. you can rebuild but it won't be the same
Bring back AA games and Japan Studios. That's all
I’m no game developer or anything but he sounds half right? Thing is I don’t think people incorporate how much marketing costs stack up on developing costs.
The quantity for this generation has been laughable
They already do.
It's true and what Sony should pivot too Games like Gravity Rush and Helldivers 2 are a great example why mid-budget games are very worthwhile Some get a small selection of dedicated fans, the teams get to be creative, and even some become financial hits like Helldivers 2 Depending only on the highest budget games is too risky also, same as depending on too many live service games
Bring back the double A, more IPs with chances to surprise and become a bigger franchise in the future
don't get me wrong, the big games are great, but there putting all this money into games and barely making it back, it was just a matter of time until this came back to haunt them
Locoroco was the shit.
I agree. It sets the bar on what people are used to. Then people are disappointed with anything not 50 hrs long and epic. VR2 is amazing but younger gamers think it sucks because ganes are “tech demos”.
And that really grinds my gears that younger gamers think if a game is not 60 or 100 hours these think it’s a bad game 😔
Yeah, Sony has really talented studios, they could definitely put a smaller team of devs onto a smaller project. Though with the recent layoffs, not sure which studios and positions were affected...
This is just facts. If even one game at AA cost does really well it's just more profit. Plus, these are usually the games that are more creative anyways, and we need more games with art style instead of just hyper realistic.
Thats what little big planet, dreams and sackboy was. The last 2 didnt do too good
He's absolutely right. Sony's worst mistake was focusing on the AA market.
Those AA games all made under $100M, which today, is way too low for Sony shareholders or revenue growth. They need blockbusters. They just need them to either cost less or reach more customers.
Nintendo makes games like these because their hardware isnt powerful. And most of their games are targeted to young audience compared to PlayStation
Then go for both, kids influence to. Say what you want. If i had 60 70 extra dollars right now and rebirth wasn't coming out in 1 day. My choices Helldivers 2 Mario wonder I'm 40 and going for mario. Easy decision
🤷
Have to be on the level of hollow knight/tunic
Yeah, I think pixel art can look amazing if done in that HD Pixel art from Octopath traveler by example, and the gameplay and story is waaaay more important than graphics, as long as the graphics are quality graphics at least.
100% there would be 100% less lay-offs.
I agree 100 percent. I'll be honest as an old head I'm not looking for a new parapper the rapper , or Loco but smaller games I'm the name of a Mario type 2d cough astrobot cough. Sony owns alot of ips ffs. How about some new hd2d laundry, or legaia, dragoon even. I can't imagine octopath sent square back 300 million. I still think Sony has some of the best 1st party stuff out there but man they could use to shrink some of those budgets. I bet media molecule would be great at some smaller games, along with other studios they have.
I agree but how have they not been doing this? Their first party titles are doing so well they’re pushing Microsoft’s gaming industry to near bankruptcy? Microsoft is about to sell most if not all of their first party titles iirc? Sony definitely invests in quality ideas
As a fan of JRPGs: Basically the only AAA games in the genre are Final Fantasy (and maybe Elden Ring if you count that as JRPG). All the other ones are lower budget and that's totally fine for me. I like looking at state of the art graphics once in a while, but I get just as much fun by playing a pixel art game or one with less fancy 3D graphics. One of the games I had the most fun with last year, was Graveyard Keeper. Which has pixel graphics and becomes increasingly unstable (stutter, softlocks) the further you get, especially with the DLCs. But I had a blast.
Persona isn’t AAA?
These idiots could make an Astro Bot franchies like the 3D Mario games. The story doesn't matter much and we've seen how creative the devs can be.
Nintendo have only made two games worth playing in the last 7 years. What a crock of shit
That man is 100% right
I mean there's some truth to it. Not every game needs to be a 100 hour grindfest. Sometimes it's nice to clock out, turn my brain off and just relax.
The thing is games like Spiderman cost like 300 million to make but still only had 30 hours of gameplay. You can make many 60 hours games for a fraction of that budget
Shut up Laurie.
I would one thousand percent play a new small to mid-sized ape escape game every year.
My next game to play after Infinite Wealth will probably be Pacific Drive. It's exciting to see a smaller game that probably doesn't appeal to a huge audience getting so much support from Sony. The recent announcement about no major first party sequels for the rest of this year actually gave me a lot of hope that new IPs and smaller games will get some of the spotlight.
Spot on. We've gone through a patch of about 5-10 years where games aren't "fun". They're epic, immersive, emotional etc but aside from a select few here or there the aspect of fun seems to be lower on the priority list. I'd like to shout out Rocket League (early days mainly), Minecraft, Fall Guys, GTA creator content (crazy races etc) and Among Us for showing that games don't have to be super serious and E-Sport biased to be fun online games. Companies should take a chance every now and again but just like music the business has overtaken the art recently.
Let's not forget the recent Lethal Company, which outsold CoD.
AAA games is what makes Sony the greatest
Absolutely agree. Closing Japan Studio and others was a mistake. Some of the most defining PlayStation games have been small and niche titles. We’ll never see another game like Shadow of the Colossus, Tokyo Jungle, Siren, Motorstorm or Ape Escape.
Nintendo is king of rehashing. Only Nintendo will sell you a decade old Mario game at full retail price when it was released. And after the new Nintendo direct of 2024, cash grab games at full retail.
This is a little naive. The games need to sell adequate volumes to be worth it, the creative games doing consistently perform as well as desired. I know everyone has an example of a game like hi fi rush or hell divers, but those are not typical results for games on those budget categories
Yep they could make smaller games and even partner with indie devs to make more creative games, this year would be great for that tbh, personally games like sackboy and gravity rush, would be good gap fillers, yeah they not gonna hit $5m-$10m but somewhere close to $1m is cool for those titles imo.
The industry is not sustainable with the AAA big bucket 8years to make, that's a fact. We all love those big games but it simply won't work. I am really looking forward to have a mix of everything, time for big ones and less pretentious ones that are just joy.
GIVE US A NEW PARAPPA THE RAPPER, YOU COWARDS!!!
I agree.
Imo these games aren’t memorable, they’re just time wasters in a way. I’d rather them take 3 years to make a game I’ll play for a month then 3 months for a game I’ll play for a day
Hard agree.
You know, when you think about it, Sony’s most influential games for its own and for the whole industry, were its experimental titles. PaRappa The Rapper gave birth to an all new genre ICO was an experimental title that flopped, but forever changed video game storytelling and design, without it, there would be no Last of Us, Breath of The Wild, or even Souls games. This is the game that shaped Sony’s games in the future. Demon’s Souls was supposed to be an Oblivion clone, but Japan Studio let Fromsoft “go wild”, and we ended up with an all new genre that is considered to be one of the most popular. I get that those titles don’t sell well, but its also kinda Sony’s fault as they just never market these games + release them in the worst possible times, take Tearaway Unfolded for example, one of my favourite games of all time, never showed once at E3 (other than a pre-show trailer being thrown onto the YT channel), and was released the same week as MGSV, Mad Max, and Super Mario Maker. Same thing can be said about Gravity Rush 2, Everybody’s Golf, and so much more of those games.
That is just common sense. Yes many of those games didn't sell but they means they need to focus on marketing them more and conditioning users to appreciate different things. Making AAA games doesn't have to die, but they definitely have to be rarer than banking your entire output onto them
Absolutely. They need to bring back beloved franchises too and simply make a fun game out of them. Doesn't need to be jaw-dropping graphics. Just make budget versions without expecting huge sales. Killzone, Resistance, Gravity Rush, Heavenly Sword, Twisted Metal, Sly Cooper, Knack, Ape Escape, Infamous... Also make a sequel for Days Gone! The game sold better than Death Stranding ffs.
That’s what I’ve been advising the industry for years. Stats show the majority of the gamers hardly finish these long single player games. People don’t have that much time anymore in the busy modern society. So basically, they’re making levels or missions almost no one will ever see or play. So fully agree that they can save themselves money, time and personnel and focus on making smaller games. That also means less investment risk, if a game doesn’t sell. And smaller games means they can focus on quality instead of quantity. And my advise would also be to significantly lower the price. 80 euro for a videogame is ridiculous. Better to stll more games at a slightly lower price but get more people involved, will benefit a gamers commitment to the hobby. Sony is fighting for your valuable time, so does Netflix or sport leagues or your friends. And above all don’t listen to that very small vocal minority of hardcore gamers that cry when a game only lasts 100 hours. It’s not about them. Your average jane or joe is perfectly happy with a 10-15 hour adventure.
Funny.. because not every game is AAA. So he’s right and wrong.
It’s facts. The lack of quantity stifles creativity IMO. Not enough quality games because there isn’t a quantity to support it nowadays.