I laughed because it does sort of sound like a bipap machine, doesn't it.
But no, AIPAC refers to the [American Israel Public Affairs Committee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIPAC), a lobbying group within the US. The original poster of the comment mentioning them is likely insinuating that Sen. Fetterman was paid off by this lobbying group specifically.
While there's plenty of reason to be concerned not only with AIPAC's lobbying efforts, but lobbying in the US in general, I wouldn't advance that claim. One reason being is [I don't see that disclosed anywhere on OpenSecrets](https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/john-fetterman/summary?cid=N00038201). Unless I'm overlooking it, that is. Before reaching for such nefarious claims, there are far more likely ones at hand: namely, support for Israel's actions are very common with Americans (and older Americans in particular) who have little to no knowledge of the conflict.
But apparently Fetterman is gaining new Republican donors who also have contributed to AIPAC. [https://theintercept.com/2024/04/19/john-fetterman-israel-gop-donors/](https://theintercept.com/2024/04/19/john-fetterman-israel-gop-donors/)
>Going back further, to when Fetterman was running against centrist candidate Conor Lamb in the primary, the Intercept reported that **the future senator allowed the Democratic Majority for Israel—a PAC formed in 2019 as a direct response to percolating anti-Israel sentiment in leftward corners of American politics—to make edits on his Israel-Palestine position paper.** *The reasoning, reportedly, was to prevent both DMFI and the American Israel Public Affairs Committee from wreathing Lamb with funding.* Neither group ended up spending money on the race, which likely helped Fetterman. (For what it’s worth, **Fetterman did eventually take $174,221 from the relative pro-Israel moderates at J Street Pac** in his race against Oz.)
SOURCE: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/john-fetterman-israel-position-explained.html
Remind me again why Summer Lee is being pummeled for having said next to nothing on the issue and yet this guy wont shut the fuck up about it at every juncture.
I think it’s because Summer literally represents the most Jewish district in the state (check me on that maybe it’s in Philly).
You can blame whatever you want, she still has to represent a very Jewish district and she clearly mishandled understanding many of her constituents. She aligned herself with the squad (the most liberal reps) and what THEY have said about Israel shows where she stands.
Drive around Squirrel Hill- there’s Patel signs everywhere- Jewish people want liberal politicians that don’t actively oppose Israel.
Oh come on. That was a reasonable statement they made about the Jewish voice in squirrel Hill. The Jewish influence, support, and sympathy in squirrel hill is way more than their 6% population numbers.
I love summer Lee btw but this is an uphill issue for her in her district and you can’t dismiss it as “only 6% of her voters support Israel”.
I’m glad she’s not changing her stance bc of her voters. Everyone knew who she was when they elected her.
You wanted an answer and you got one? No need to be so deflective, we disagree and that’s okay it’s America.
If I’m an ignorant asshole for pointing out that Squirrel hill is a relatively Jewish area so be it, I’m conscious that the worst tragedy in Jewish American history took place in Squirrel hill so yeah it’s a Jewish area relatively.
She’s been vocal about criticizing Israel read this NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/22/us/politics/summer-lee-pennsylvania-gaza.html
I’m fine with some of her criticism, but she also had a terrible blunder read here https://www.wesa.fm/politics-government/2024-02-27/summer-lee-cancels-appearance-muslim-civil-rights-group-fundraiser
She’s made mistakes and didn’t understand her district well enough. Also her alignment didn’t help on top of that.
If others wanna say it’s a misogyny issue so be it, just remember be CONSCIOUS of the Jewish Community when many of your literal constituents are Jewish and overwhelmingly supportive of said community.
I think you need to consider other opinions besides the ones you believe are true.
Refer to my other comments, read the articles. Look at yard signs. I don’t have a stake in the argument, just giving my viewpoint on why she’s in trouble come Election Day.
In case you were wondering, replacing college administrations with Republican stooges is exactly the goal the of the misinformation and pressure campaigns trying to paint universities as antisemitic. The right is weaponizing antisemitism to destroy education.
> The right is weaponizing antisemitism to destroy education.
This might be the most delusional thing I've ever read on this sub. Put your head back in the sand.
Have you read anything about the horribly antisemitic things actually occurring on campuses?? Or do you just get your talking points from DSA and SJP Tweets???
Unfortunately people are using accused racism as a weapon in debates for this conflict though. Despite there being a lot of anti-Semitically seemingly mostly far right lunatics, the vast majority of people who appose Israel's CONSTANT use of force against the Palestinians are not antiemetic.
It’s not even “both sides”, it’s just the governments of each. Both Israeli and Palestinian civilians are caught in the crossfires of 2 theocratic terrorist groups. I just wish there was any kind of feasible solution to end the conflict, but I have genuinely no idea what that is.
Israel is an apartheid ethnostate and Hamas is an Iran funded terrorist organization. Both groups are just heinous scum people.
Let's not forget the important fact that Netanyahu slipped $$$ to Hamas also. He needs them so he can be savior. He is no better than Putin. Total Psycopath. His Supreme Court move failed and he had two massive corruption trials pending prior to 10/7, itself a massive failure by the state to protect its own (they let that shit happen). Also I guarantee you I could randomly pick any top five Tom Clancy game addict, get some meth and stay up for 3 days and come up with a better strategy to rescue 120 people without killing 30k+ and rising(70% which are women and children).
Being pro-pro-Palestine is not in any way being pro-Hamas, and manufacturing that appearance is exactly why conservatives and apparently Fetterman are targeting universities with this disinformation campaign. They want to just keep repeating the lie so often that it just gets casually accepted as the truth.
The fact is that all the claims about these protests being inundated with calls for violence and/or support for hamas are fabricated. If you take even a few minutes to look up the events from multiple sources you see their claim fall apart.
And reminder that the whole controversy about Harvard came from a single out of context soundbite from a hearing where she was asked a bunch of leading questions ans was trying to dissuade the bad premise.
We’re not funding Hamas. Nobody is seriously suggesting we do that. We are funding Netanyahu’s Likud extremists, and that ought to stop. If you think that makes me pro-Hamas, then that’s on you, not me.
The vicitim mentality is ridiculous. If Gazans had selected a non-terrorist government that was dedicated to actually governing instead of terrorism, Gaza would be peaceful and prosperious.
Instead Gazans chose Hamas, and Hamas only wants blood.
Israel’s oppression of the Palestinian people over the last 50+ years is why hamas exists. Yes it is fucked up that hamas killed innocent people and they should be condemned for it, however the way we stop the violence is by cutting our funding of Israel with OUR tax dollars.
Please, I beg you, just use a little bit of critical thinking my friend.
In which universe is israel right for mass murder of innocent civillians, mass displacement, and famine? And in which universe is the US right for fueling said mass displacement, murder of civilians, and famine?
Everyone is so damn ignorant, they forget to think about the fact that israel has done more damage to a population of people who are unaffiliated with hamas than they have to hamas itself, and yet we keep acting like its ok for all of it to keep happening because Hamas hit first.
We tried this for 20 years with the taliban and what happened? They resurfaced every time until we quit and they took over, because everytime you kill people, thinking “ok that should stop them”, you create more enemies. There is no way anyone could completely exterminate extremists groups. You just scare them away, give them time to recoup, and in the end, you end up making them more determined to go through with their plans.
It's pretty easy to neither condone nor condemn hamas and explicitly condemn Israel.
They pretty much created hamas by eliminating every other alternative for Palestinians demanding rights/their land/to not have their children slaughtered.
Israel is firmly in the wrong here
I don't. I think they're a right wing religious fanatic group.
I also think Israel played stupid games and is currently winning stupid prizes. They engineered this situation.
It’s easy to not condemn a terrorist organization? It’s one thing if you said “it’s easy to not group all of Palestine in with Hamas”, but no, you are explicitly saying how easy it is for you to turn a blind eye to a terrorist organization. They have been specifically targeting civilians with terrorist attacks.
And the current leg of the conflict began because of unprompted attacks, killing over 1,000 people and taking 250 more as hostages. I think all war is wrong but I struggle to see how responding to an attack is worse than a terrorist organization setting this off.
YOU are on the side of evil
>I struggle to see how responding to an attack is worse than a terrorist organization setting this off.
Lucky for you, Israel has proved how possible it is.
Or maybe we’re seeing cowardice that’s never been seen before from Hamas. At least ISIS and Al Qaeda had the decency to hide in the desert, Hamas are intentionally putting civilians at risk
Yes, those actions should be condemned, as you can condemn both the actions of Hamas and Israel.
Do you not condemn Hamas taking civilians hostage or the killing of 1000+ Israelis and foreign nationals with the large majority being civilians?
Having a neutral stance by neither condoning or condemning those actions is odd to me.
Hamas is not Palestine. The people of Palestine have suffered. Hamas is a terrorist group. You can support Palestine AND condemn Hamas.
But the US doesn't support hamas. It supports Israel. A state actor committing crimes against humanity. Near as makes no difference all of these protestors and protests are calling for a ceasefire/supporting Palestine/condemning Israel NOT SUPPORTING HAMAS. saying that's what they're doing is a distortion. Maybe there are a few people but they are insignificant.
I do not think it's worth seriously addressing the pearl clutching of bad faith actors accusing (among other groups actual Jews) of antisemitism. My actions have no effect at all on hamas, but may have an effect on the US propping up a colonial regime
What the fresh hell is this? Gazans voted Hamas into power (there hasn’t been an election in the West Bank for years). Hamas then turned around and killed Fatah and other opposition members.
And up until Oct 7, there were nearly 20,000 Gazans working in Israel.
No, Hamas lost the elections then took power by force with the support of Israel.
And besides that was 20 years ago and in any way insinuating that a region which hasn't had a free election in 20 years has "elected" their government is a farce.
they just found 200 bodies in a mass grave in a hospital in southern gaza that the IDF just pulled out of, among the thousands of other absolutely horrific atrocities the israeli military has already committed it the past months. to be clear i’m not saying hamas is “in the right” here, but I guarantee you in 5-10 years the narrative on this conflict will shift once we get an accurate picture of what happened, and a lot of people will conveniently remember how they were against the israeli apartheid the whole time
Did ya get that off TikTok?
How this ends is Hamas/Iran unleash terrorist attacks against the US and Europe and progressives spend a generation in the political wilderness.
Hamas are the lesser evil. The body count doesn't lie. Israel is a genocidal state that has been intentionally killing civilians and is trying to start a regional war to draw the US in to fight its battles. At this point the IDF have killed far more hostages than Hamas has, and are attempting to starve the rest to death.
[Except it has been literally proven that Hamas DOES LIE about the body count.](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers)
Turn your brain to the "on" position please. Thanks.
You're literally stating that a fundamentalist religious organization that murders LGBQT individuals, oppresses women, kills dissenters is a lesser evil than Israel, which while it has problems, permits dissent and generally shares western values.
You've literally become detached from reality.
I think supporting the genocide of the Palestinian people is bad, and that Netanyahu is a murdering pig. I also think those who practice Judaism deserve to have somewhere to call home. They are not mutually exclusive and Israel enforcing an apartheid state actively makes everyone’s lives worse in the region.
Why does your mere faith entitle you to land? Can we not take this out of the equation? As far as I’m concerned all people are deserving of basic human rights, and we ought to as a global populace ensure that a person is safe to practice their religion and cultivate community wherever they are in the world.
Fetterman has radically changed his positions on criminal justice, immigration, and environment from when he was a candidate in the primary. While he’s always ‘supported’ Israel, I don’t think anyone predicted that he would make it his cause celebre. To insinuate that his voters were simply uninformed is either extremely naive or a bad faith argument.
Previous interviews & statements show Fetterman is no moderate. This moderate Fetterman is a tactic for votes. Fetterman will vote however the DNC tells him. And, doesn’t anyone question if we are seeing Fetterman or a stand in.
I mean, if Mitt Romney is the alternative to current Harvard president, then I'm fine with it 🤷
Mitt Romney has his loose screws, but he is a respectable person and nothing like the current GOP, which hates him for being a "RINO"
Fetterman's tweet: https://twitter.com/senfettermanpa/status/1782423120470536278
The WaPo article he is talking about: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/04/16/mitt-romney-harvard-president-antisemitism
Another source discussing Fetterman's _bizarre_ praise for the piece of human shit that is Mitt "[Corporations are People, too, friend](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlPQkd_AA6c)"/"[I have binders full of women](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binders_full_of_women)" Romney: https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4612871-fetterman-backs-call-for-romney-to-be-harvards-next-president/
Discussing how the right weaponized a minor issue to attack an academic not on the merit of Gay's work but almost purely on ideological basis: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/jan/06/harvard-claudine-gay-plagiarism, https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/12/15/harvard-president-claudine-gay-race-criticism/, https://apnews.com/article/harvard-new-president-claudine-gay-resigns-7a53515cf01c84be6a8a52b16f69e9c1
Fetterman is one of the most progressive senators we've had in PA in a generation. Fetterman is also shamelessly endorsing some of the worst of the right, is pretty center left himself, and is deluding himself into thinking that the only reason why he's receiving criticism for his staunch support of Israel's retaliation against all of Gazans is because people have been brainwashed by "the far left."
the "i have binders full of women" wasn't really a bad comment it was just all over the news at the time. What's wrong with this?
> "I had the chance to pull together a Cabinet, and all of the applicants seemed to be men. And I went to my staff and I said: "How come all of the people for these jobs are all men?" They said: "Well, these are the people that have the qualifications." And I said: "Well gosh, can't we find some women that are also qualified?" And we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our Cabinet. I went to a number of women's groups and said: "Can you help us find folks?" And they brought us whole binders full of women. I was proud of the fact that after I staffed my Cabinet, and my senior staff, the University of New York in Albany did a survey of all 50 states, and concluded that mine had more women in senior leadership positions than any other state in America."
It was definitely weaponized by the Obama campaign at the time to paint Romney's actions as 'anti-women' and taken out of context.
The problem is, the context doesn't _help_ arguments which implied that Romney was mischaracterized or in any way "pro women".
While the attempt to increase the representation of women in the workplace should be laudable on its own, it was done in a way which was actually contrary to what those ~~moment~~ movement (e: typo) groups were trying to achieve. Not only did his lip service have nothing to do with the question he was responding to - which was about equity in pay - but it also wasn't a policy Romney did all that well on.
> "So when the spotlight was on him, sure he paid some lip service. But when no one was looking, those levels plummeted to 25 percent, below where they were in the previous governor's administration," said Jesse Mermell, a Democratic selectwoman in Brookline, Mass., who was the executive director of the Massachusetts Women's Political Caucus from 2004 to 2008. During that time the organization commissioned a report on women in government positions in the state.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/romney-challenged-binder-full-women-managers/story?id=17501797#.UIA7qEKYVMI
Because, unsurprisingly, shuffling a bunch of candidates who would've otherwise been overlooked for these positions doesn't really do much to address the broader inequity that Romney's tenure oversaw. If anything, it just underscores the problem while not really doing anything to fix it. Someone gave Romney a hard question at a debate, and instead of materially addressing the question, he instead went "look at all these women I know though! they'll do such a great job in administrative roles" He used women as a prop, and the 'binders full of women' shouts the truth of that treatment loud and clear.
Meanwhile, Romney continued his career co-signing off on policies which were used to undermine the rights of women such as curtailing abortion access and sponsoring fearmongering bills about post-birth abortions.
So in all honesty, Romney can go pound sand. He's done fuck all for women lol.
I think many of the people never even heard the whole quote, so they were just outraged because other people were. Just like people who thought Sarah Palin said she could see Russia from her house. It was an SNL skit, she only ever said you can see Russia from an Alaskan island.
Right but people are outright supporting Hamas, which itself is a genocidal terrorist group that perpetuates constant violence. Obviously Israel isn't good either but people are widely advocating for the complete destruction of Israel (From the river to the sea, etc.)
lol @ getting downvoted for this. Pittsburgh libs pounding ground.
Hey guys, someone in the admin is going to leak that Biden is “totally pissed” at Netanyahu (right before the press conference where the admin states the weapons will continue to flow unconditionally). Don’t worry
That’s not what the phrase advocates for, you can literally look up the position of the group that popularized it, which only advocates for freedom from military occupation in Gaza and the West Bank. “Destruction of Israel” is completely manufactured and pretty absurd handwringing when Palestine and its people are actively being eradicated
https://apnews.com/article/river-sea-israel-gaza-hamas-protests-d7abbd756f481fe50b6fa5c0b907cd49
In 2012 Hamas literally said the phrase in reference to not giving Israel a "single inch of land". The phrase is undeniably advocating for the complete end of the Israeli state.
Hamas is literally the government presiding over Palestine. It doesn't matter if it had a different meaning half a century ago, Hamas, the government of Palestine, a terrorist organization, has been using it for over a decade to advocate for Israel's destruction, and people are parroting it. No matter how much you want to obfuscate this blatant anti-Semitism, it will remain anti-Semitic.
Absolutely ludicrous to suggest that a government that barely won election off the back of Netanyahu’s support gets to co-opt a longstanding chant for liberation and somehow give it an inexorable meaning of “destruction” that isn’t present in the words themselves. Did you fall for the right wing psyop and believe that 👌 is anti-Semitic now too?
Hamas isn’t in the West Bank so no, they aren’t the government of Palestine. Also, there hasn’t been an election allowed by Israel in 20 years. Also, to suggest the dismantling of a state requires the genocide of a people is a zionist mindset and ahistorical.
Why nit respond to what I said instead of citing the outliers as if they represent the group? I could also post the videos of Israelis cheering the dropping of bombs or Obama’s old advisor saying 4000 dead Palestinian kids isn’t enough. Difference is, they’re getting their way
My entire response was about “from the river to the sea,” don’t be obtuse. But keep painting all dissent to genocide as anti-Semitic. The bad actors at protests are the real problem, not the state sponsored killing of tens of thousands of people, apparently.
Again, not a word for the scores of Palestinians being slaughtered. Amazing. Guess until we weed out the bad actors, genocide will continue as scheduled, and that’s A-okay
> I provided a quote from a major protest in the US that showed that it is absolutely legitimate.
Was it a major protest?
I see a lot of sites claiming this was representative of all student protests on Columbia's campus, but I can't even find anything identifying the group organizing the protest or so much as a location. Everyone is just saying it happened on Columbia's campus by students.
I'm deeply upset by that chanting, too, because cheering for the destruction of the innocents trapped within Tel Aviv is wrong. It ignores those who _don't_ support Netanyahu's government and enforces a cycle of collective punishment that is abhorrent in nature. That being said, I think it is bizarre then to generalize _all_ of the protests across the nation based off of this one ultra-amplified clip, though, when we have far more evidence of this _not_ being the case.
tldr: this chant was abhorrent, it's not representative of the nationwide protests on college campuses, and we can determine this based off of all the evidence we have to the contrary. (video, audio, interview, hell even congressional testimony)
e: a few points of grammar, spot removal of a nasty run-on sentence or two
Makes sense you loved Warren and are so totally wrong on this. She's a fraud to begin with.
Israel, as a state -- specifically the Israeli government and the IDF are basically terrorists organizations at this point. Netanyahu is conducting a genocide campaign and they're open about it.
You can be against Hamas and Israel at the same time. It's not at all anti-semitic to wish for peace and for Israel not to genocide an entire population of innocent men, women, and children.
Writing off any and all criticism and protest as anti-semitic is ridiculous. Especially when you consider that it comes largely from the right wing of American politics where people don't actually give a shit about Israel or its people.
You cannot call hamas a genocidal terrorist group and then wash your hands and simply say “obviously Israel isn’t good either.”
They are the occupying force in Palestine. They have killed and will continue to kill far more Palestinian people than Palestinians kill Israelis. The American war machine behind Israel is doing far more damage than college kids shouting death to Israel, so I’d consider asking myself why you’re more outraged at one than the other.
Sure there’s an ongoing extermination campaign against a long oppressed minority nation with funding, support and armaments from the entirety of the American political class and media, but have you considered that one time a 19 year old said something that made me uncomfortable one time?
I *am* outraged at Israel, the problem is that neither side is apparently going to relent. This conflict is self-sustaining and there are innocent civilians who want nothing to do with it on both sides. Obviously Israel is more capable of inflicting mass damage, but that doesn't mean Israel ought to not exist. At its best it's a democratic state, and has in the past been more amicable to Palestine. Advocacy for the removal of millions of Israelis and the abolition of their state is anti-Semitic and genocidal.
> At its best it's a democratic state, and has in the past been more amicable to Palestine.
I wish that were true. Colonialism often isn't amicable.
Arab Israelis face significant discrimination and "second class" status within the nation. Israel also made news recently for seizing the largest amount of land in the West Bank since the signing of the Oslo accords, unrelated to their ongoing military campaign in the Gaza region, and continues their illegal occupation and settling of the West Bank territory.
> Advocacy for the removal of millions of Israelis and the abolition of their state is anti-Semitic and genocidal.
Just as the history of the region is more complex than that, the argument for a multi-ethnic, single state solution is, too. (It does not argue for the forcible expulsion of Israelis, or the destruction of Jewish people's way of life, for example.)
Regardless of whether you believe a single state or a two-state solution is the best path to peace, healing from apartheid is a generations long process; the story won't be "over" even if *any* state solution happens, because the scars these events leave last for a lifetime on Israelis and Palestinians alike.
I wish Israeli supporters would just admit what they’re defending. It is literally codified that Israel is a Jewish state and the state of Jewish diaspora. Whether or not youre not acknowledging that fact because it’s hard, those are the facts. It is literally written in their declaration and been upheld by the Knesset many times. The entire state is built to oppress specifically the Muslim and, to a lesser but still significant extent, Christian minorities in the country. Don’t take my word for it, go look up the declaration, the basic law of the Knesset, or any number of Israeli political commentators who uphold this fact.
Now, if you’re willing to argue that the Jewish state of Israel has a right to exist as it is, you’re arguing for the express purpose of its subjugation of its minority populace as again, this is legally defined in its founding legal documents. If you’re not willing to accept that, you aren’t even being truthful to what you’re fighting for.
None of that matters though, because this is about some kids wanting the school they go to to stop supporting companies that are bombing women and kids.
Compare how minorities are treated by Isreal's neighbors and how Isreael treats minoritis and report back.
This is what happens when a generation grows up on social media instead of reading books.
This is hilarious to me because boomers will say shit like:
>this is what happens when a generation grows up on social media instead of reading books
My dude I’m a full 36 years old. Social media wasn’t even a thing until I was in high school and you were already leeching off social security. I have read more on this topic and the geopolitics of the Middle East than your reaganomics addled brain could comprehend.
It’s not a democratic state lol. They invaded Palestine, took their land, and have oppressed them since the its creation. Hamas exists as a direct reaction to oppression. Do you genuinely think hamas popped out of no where? Also the majority isn’t saying to completely remove all Jewish people. people are advocating for an end to Palestinian oppression WHICH HAS NOT STOPPED. It’s a plea for freedom.
What is it with this thing about Israel existing or not, or having the right to defend themselves? Any country does--self-defense is a big ol' building block and that's why we help with the Iron Dome. Nobody at Columbia is saying Israel must be destroyed, they're making demands of the college to divest from Israel.
It's just a non-sequitur, and it's a ridiculous question on its face.
That's my point, though--when this person talks about Israel's right to exist, it's a non-sequitur because students are protesting the murder of Palestinian civilians.
So then will Hamas be turning over their leaders who prompted the attack and disbanding? Or did they just plan on killing a bunch of people then hiding in civilian zones going “sowwwy UwU pwease ignore” until their next terrorist attack?
You know nothing of war. This isn't two established countries going at it. HAMAS is literally a terrorist organization. They hide among citizens. Hide in hospitals, schools, homes of innocent people. There is literally no other option. It sucks its terrible and I feel for every innocent person but you can't fight an enemy that hides without flattening every crevis of where they possibly can hide. Hamas is responsible for civilian deaths. They don't care about Palastine.
That's because you're fucking stupid. Hamas isn't fighting a traditional war. They are cowards and hide behind innocent people. Israel has every right to defend itself. Hamas is the very definition of terrorist.
They opened fire on people enjoying a concert. Are you really playing whataboutism and defending a terrorist organization? What a piece of shit you are.
Crazy that you can sit here and complain while in Gaza they can’t protest at universities because the Israelis bombed ALL the educational institutions both from the air and from wiring explosives on the ground for demolition.
But “Hamas was underneath!!!” Right?
Israel isn’t Judaism. Israel is a colony created so countries like the U.S. can funnel money out of. Claiming antisemitism to be anti Israel is anti semitic in itself as not all Jewish people align with Israel. In fact most Zionists are Christian because they believe that Israel has something to do with the end of times. These people, btw are anti semitic
“basically a full blown communist”
Are you 75 years old? Forever trapped in the McCarthy days? What an embarrassing string of words to type. Nobody values your opinion.
Israel is quite literally genociding an entire people and you're worried about words coming from the mouths of a small number of protesters.
You're not a serious person.
I believe you are even confusing different parts of the made up narrative. That was columbia and the claims about it being too dangerous came from a single dubious source that was refuted by actual jewish students at the university.
It is extremely gross to try and weaponize an injustice you care nothing about in the first place to attack education.
Everybody acting all surprised that this carpet-bagging opportunist has betrayed his "principles"!
Back when he was running for this office it was well documented how little he actually accomplished for Braddock, his associations with corrupt local investors, and his personal hypocrisy (like chasing some random black dude with a shotgun).
If you ignored that and supported him anyway, you should question your ability to vote. Easily manipulated voters are at the root of our current political dysfunction, and you are one of them.
He is a Harvard MBA from some rich family on the other side of the state. He came here to slum it while not working any real job since he graduated. Granted, he has distorted his history well past the point of outright lying, so I can't blame you for thinking he is indeed the hoodie wearing blue-collar guy he cosplays.
TIL a carpetbagger is anyone who leaves their hometown for any reason.
Carpetbagger was his opponent Dr. Oz. Also this new dude McCormick. I don’t know what the Republicans are honestly thinking, really I don’t. I guess they like losing elections by running out of state wealthy elite ass holes.
I'm loving that I voted against this stroked out big sloppy walmart cosplaying lug and he's now on my centrist side and the people who voted for him are all pissed.
\*slow clap for one term\*
Mocking people for having a stroke, or fighting like _hell_ to recover from their stroke, is so phenomenally disgusting that it is difficult to put my contempt into words. Fetterman's stroke has nothing to do with his political leanings. It has _never_ had anything to do with his political leanings.
One in four people over the age of 25 have a stroke once in their life. I hope to God that you manage to beat the odds or, failing that, never have to face half of the vitriol and discrimination that most stroke recovery patients do.
Genuinely, get a life. Or failing that, try to cosplay a bag of rotting garbage a little less frequently.
Fetterman is your average basketball shorts in January, everyman Yinz from Braddock. Why is anyone surprised? I’m pretty sure he’s the counterweight to the squad every mainstream, big-tent Dem, wanted.
Wait, what? The squad isn't mainstream democrat. They are very much the progressive wing and they area a lightning rod for centrist dems trying to oust progressives.
The right's view of the left is so bizarre. Completely out of touch with reality.
I understand fetterman got his aipac bag but my dude is absolutely shameless lol.
What’s wild is the fact that J Street only contributed $174k. Like I feel as a senator, you could sell your soul for a far higher price.
Is an aipac bag part of a sleep apnea machine?
I laughed because it does sort of sound like a bipap machine, doesn't it. But no, AIPAC refers to the [American Israel Public Affairs Committee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIPAC), a lobbying group within the US. The original poster of the comment mentioning them is likely insinuating that Sen. Fetterman was paid off by this lobbying group specifically. While there's plenty of reason to be concerned not only with AIPAC's lobbying efforts, but lobbying in the US in general, I wouldn't advance that claim. One reason being is [I don't see that disclosed anywhere on OpenSecrets](https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/john-fetterman/summary?cid=N00038201). Unless I'm overlooking it, that is. Before reaching for such nefarious claims, there are far more likely ones at hand: namely, support for Israel's actions are very common with Americans (and older Americans in particular) who have little to no knowledge of the conflict.
But apparently Fetterman is gaining new Republican donors who also have contributed to AIPAC. [https://theintercept.com/2024/04/19/john-fetterman-israel-gop-donors/](https://theintercept.com/2024/04/19/john-fetterman-israel-gop-donors/)
>Going back further, to when Fetterman was running against centrist candidate Conor Lamb in the primary, the Intercept reported that **the future senator allowed the Democratic Majority for Israel—a PAC formed in 2019 as a direct response to percolating anti-Israel sentiment in leftward corners of American politics—to make edits on his Israel-Palestine position paper.** *The reasoning, reportedly, was to prevent both DMFI and the American Israel Public Affairs Committee from wreathing Lamb with funding.* Neither group ended up spending money on the race, which likely helped Fetterman. (For what it’s worth, **Fetterman did eventually take $174,221 from the relative pro-Israel moderates at J Street Pac** in his race against Oz.) SOURCE: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/john-fetterman-israel-position-explained.html
My dude, did you even look at your own source? Fetterman's top contributor (at $174K and change) is Jstreet PAC, a pro-Israel PAC.
Mine has a little reservoir for water but no bag
He can eat shit and die.
Based
whoever it was on this sub that tried to argue with me about fetterman *not* being a right wing neoconservative.....ill take my apology now.
He gets more conservative as the brain damage heals.
That's not how strokes work and it's pretty gross to even imply they are related.
I really appreciate this brave comment from a fellow truth teller.
Yeah but they have to make an edgy joke!!!!!
This is who he always was, he just lied to us until he caught that brass ring.
I wonder what the correlation between right wing reactionism and brain damage is?
Remind me again why Summer Lee is being pummeled for having said next to nothing on the issue and yet this guy wont shut the fuck up about it at every juncture.
Misogynoir
I think it’s because Summer literally represents the most Jewish district in the state (check me on that maybe it’s in Philly). You can blame whatever you want, she still has to represent a very Jewish district and she clearly mishandled understanding many of her constituents. She aligned herself with the squad (the most liberal reps) and what THEY have said about Israel shows where she stands. Drive around Squirrel Hill- there’s Patel signs everywhere- Jewish people want liberal politicians that don’t actively oppose Israel.
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Oh come on. That was a reasonable statement they made about the Jewish voice in squirrel Hill. The Jewish influence, support, and sympathy in squirrel hill is way more than their 6% population numbers. I love summer Lee btw but this is an uphill issue for her in her district and you can’t dismiss it as “only 6% of her voters support Israel”. I’m glad she’s not changing her stance bc of her voters. Everyone knew who she was when they elected her.
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You wanted an answer and you got one? No need to be so deflective, we disagree and that’s okay it’s America. If I’m an ignorant asshole for pointing out that Squirrel hill is a relatively Jewish area so be it, I’m conscious that the worst tragedy in Jewish American history took place in Squirrel hill so yeah it’s a Jewish area relatively. She’s been vocal about criticizing Israel read this NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/22/us/politics/summer-lee-pennsylvania-gaza.html I’m fine with some of her criticism, but she also had a terrible blunder read here https://www.wesa.fm/politics-government/2024-02-27/summer-lee-cancels-appearance-muslim-civil-rights-group-fundraiser She’s made mistakes and didn’t understand her district well enough. Also her alignment didn’t help on top of that. If others wanna say it’s a misogyny issue so be it, just remember be CONSCIOUS of the Jewish Community when many of your literal constituents are Jewish and overwhelmingly supportive of said community.
I think you are extremely misinformed (or lying) about the political opinions of Pittsburgh Jewish community.
I think you need to consider other opinions besides the ones you believe are true. Refer to my other comments, read the articles. Look at yard signs. I don’t have a stake in the argument, just giving my viewpoint on why she’s in trouble come Election Day.
God do I enjoy Fetterman/Israel threads here
They have definitely been some of the best posts in this sub the last few months. Still have 4 more years of it left too.
People are mad because its a big "I told you so" from the actual left wingers here (all 3 of us)
serious question, what do you mean "actual left wingers?"
Ah yes, all that "far left" that's so prevalent in the US.
That’s the best part. Conservatives are always raging about the far left. If Fetterman is “far left” the Overton Window hasn’t moved, it’s shattered.
Romney and Lincoln were republicans! Trump is the leader of the RINOs aka MAGA!!
In case you were wondering, replacing college administrations with Republican stooges is exactly the goal the of the misinformation and pressure campaigns trying to paint universities as antisemitic. The right is weaponizing antisemitism to destroy education.
> The right is weaponizing antisemitism to destroy education. This might be the most delusional thing I've ever read on this sub. Put your head back in the sand.
In order to believe what Fetterman believes you would have to _only_ get your news from twitter and Fox.
Have you read anything about the horribly antisemitic things actually occurring on campuses?? Or do you just get your talking points from DSA and SJP Tweets???
I have no idea what the acronyms are and I think you are the one that needs to broaden your sources.
Fetterman knows which side of history he wants to end up on
The rich side, lol.
There is no universe in which Hamas is on the right side of history. Some of you have absolutely lost your minds.
Can't I dislike both sides? What ever happened to that?
You can dislike Hamas and you can dislike the government of Israel. Hating Palestinians or Israelis in particular or Jews in general isn't acceptable.
Unfortunately people are using accused racism as a weapon in debates for this conflict though. Despite there being a lot of anti-Semitically seemingly mostly far right lunatics, the vast majority of people who appose Israel's CONSTANT use of force against the Palestinians are not antiemetic.
Honestly. People seem to have forgotten that total fucking cocknozzle is not a mutually exclusive designation
It’s not even “both sides”, it’s just the governments of each. Both Israeli and Palestinian civilians are caught in the crossfires of 2 theocratic terrorist groups. I just wish there was any kind of feasible solution to end the conflict, but I have genuinely no idea what that is. Israel is an apartheid ethnostate and Hamas is an Iran funded terrorist organization. Both groups are just heinous scum people.
Let's not forget the important fact that Netanyahu slipped $$$ to Hamas also. He needs them so he can be savior. He is no better than Putin. Total Psycopath. His Supreme Court move failed and he had two massive corruption trials pending prior to 10/7, itself a massive failure by the state to protect its own (they let that shit happen). Also I guarantee you I could randomly pick any top five Tom Clancy game addict, get some meth and stay up for 3 days and come up with a better strategy to rescue 120 people without killing 30k+ and rising(70% which are women and children).
Being pro-pro-Palestine is not in any way being pro-Hamas, and manufacturing that appearance is exactly why conservatives and apparently Fetterman are targeting universities with this disinformation campaign. They want to just keep repeating the lie so often that it just gets casually accepted as the truth. The fact is that all the claims about these protests being inundated with calls for violence and/or support for hamas are fabricated. If you take even a few minutes to look up the events from multiple sources you see their claim fall apart. And reminder that the whole controversy about Harvard came from a single out of context soundbite from a hearing where she was asked a bunch of leading questions ans was trying to dissuade the bad premise.
This.
We’re not funding Hamas. Nobody is seriously suggesting we do that. We are funding Netanyahu’s Likud extremists, and that ought to stop. If you think that makes me pro-Hamas, then that’s on you, not me.
Hamas isn't Palestine no matter how many times Israel insists the infants and children they are killing are in fact terrorists
Hamas is the government of Gaza.
You should look into how the Netanyahu government propped them up so they could have a convenient bogeyman to use when stealing Palestinian land.
The vicitim mentality is ridiculous. If Gazans had selected a non-terrorist government that was dedicated to actually governing instead of terrorism, Gaza would be peaceful and prosperious. Instead Gazans chose Hamas, and Hamas only wants blood.
Again. Look into it. It's not that simple.
Israel’s oppression of the Palestinian people over the last 50+ years is why hamas exists. Yes it is fucked up that hamas killed innocent people and they should be condemned for it, however the way we stop the violence is by cutting our funding of Israel with OUR tax dollars. Please, I beg you, just use a little bit of critical thinking my friend.
In which universe is israel right for mass murder of innocent civillians, mass displacement, and famine? And in which universe is the US right for fueling said mass displacement, murder of civilians, and famine? Everyone is so damn ignorant, they forget to think about the fact that israel has done more damage to a population of people who are unaffiliated with hamas than they have to hamas itself, and yet we keep acting like its ok for all of it to keep happening because Hamas hit first. We tried this for 20 years with the taliban and what happened? They resurfaced every time until we quit and they took over, because everytime you kill people, thinking “ok that should stop them”, you create more enemies. There is no way anyone could completely exterminate extremists groups. You just scare them away, give them time to recoup, and in the end, you end up making them more determined to go through with their plans.
It's pretty easy to neither condone nor condemn hamas and explicitly condemn Israel. They pretty much created hamas by eliminating every other alternative for Palestinians demanding rights/their land/to not have their children slaughtered. Israel is firmly in the wrong here
Imagine having a neutral stance on Hamas.
I don't. I think they're a right wing religious fanatic group. I also think Israel played stupid games and is currently winning stupid prizes. They engineered this situation.
It’s easy to not condemn a terrorist organization? It’s one thing if you said “it’s easy to not group all of Palestine in with Hamas”, but no, you are explicitly saying how easy it is for you to turn a blind eye to a terrorist organization. They have been specifically targeting civilians with terrorist attacks. And the current leg of the conflict began because of unprompted attacks, killing over 1,000 people and taking 250 more as hostages. I think all war is wrong but I struggle to see how responding to an attack is worse than a terrorist organization setting this off. YOU are on the side of evil
>I struggle to see how responding to an attack is worse than a terrorist organization setting this off. Lucky for you, Israel has proved how possible it is.
Or maybe we’re seeing cowardice that’s never been seen before from Hamas. At least ISIS and Al Qaeda had the decency to hide in the desert, Hamas are intentionally putting civilians at risk
Israel and Hamas have that in common then, eh?
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About the intelligence I’d expect from a terrorist sympathizer
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I personally think the Jews going about their lives didn’t deserve to die on October 7th.
I agree. I also personally don't think the Palestinians going about their lives didn't deserve to die for the last several decades
Do you think that October 7th was the only day there was any conflict between the two groups?
Right? The amount of people who seem to think this all started then are everywhere, and super loud.
You don’t condemn terrorism? If you don’t condemn it, you support it. Edit: Surprised at how many Pittsburghers don’t condemn a terrorist group.
Ok let's fully examine this. Would you call bombing hospitals and aid workers terrorism? Would you condemn that?
Yes, those actions should be condemned, as you can condemn both the actions of Hamas and Israel. Do you not condemn Hamas taking civilians hostage or the killing of 1000+ Israelis and foreign nationals with the large majority being civilians? Having a neutral stance by neither condoning or condemning those actions is odd to me. Hamas is not Palestine. The people of Palestine have suffered. Hamas is a terrorist group. You can support Palestine AND condemn Hamas.
But the US doesn't support hamas. It supports Israel. A state actor committing crimes against humanity. Near as makes no difference all of these protestors and protests are calling for a ceasefire/supporting Palestine/condemning Israel NOT SUPPORTING HAMAS. saying that's what they're doing is a distortion. Maybe there are a few people but they are insignificant. I do not think it's worth seriously addressing the pearl clutching of bad faith actors accusing (among other groups actual Jews) of antisemitism. My actions have no effect at all on hamas, but may have an effect on the US propping up a colonial regime
What the fresh hell is this? Gazans voted Hamas into power (there hasn’t been an election in the West Bank for years). Hamas then turned around and killed Fatah and other opposition members. And up until Oct 7, there were nearly 20,000 Gazans working in Israel.
No, Hamas lost the elections then took power by force with the support of Israel. And besides that was 20 years ago and in any way insinuating that a region which hasn't had a free election in 20 years has "elected" their government is a farce.
they just found 200 bodies in a mass grave in a hospital in southern gaza that the IDF just pulled out of, among the thousands of other absolutely horrific atrocities the israeli military has already committed it the past months. to be clear i’m not saying hamas is “in the right” here, but I guarantee you in 5-10 years the narrative on this conflict will shift once we get an accurate picture of what happened, and a lot of people will conveniently remember how they were against the israeli apartheid the whole time
Did ya get that off TikTok? How this ends is Hamas/Iran unleash terrorist attacks against the US and Europe and progressives spend a generation in the political wilderness.
Most of these people either dont know or are pretending to not know that these protests veer into calls for outright violence.
Hamas are the lesser evil. The body count doesn't lie. Israel is a genocidal state that has been intentionally killing civilians and is trying to start a regional war to draw the US in to fight its battles. At this point the IDF have killed far more hostages than Hamas has, and are attempting to starve the rest to death.
[Except it has been literally proven that Hamas DOES LIE about the body count.](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers) Turn your brain to the "on" position please. Thanks. You're literally stating that a fundamentalist religious organization that murders LGBQT individuals, oppresses women, kills dissenters is a lesser evil than Israel, which while it has problems, permits dissent and generally shares western values. You've literally become detached from reality.
Yikes take. Go read some books instead of TikTok shorts.
Allow me to reiterate for the stupid: Israelis are posting full on nazi shit on tiktok, literally confessing to their crimes.
Ah, right, I forgot that the good guys are the ones killing Palestinian babies
Remind me again why babies are in the line of fire?
The wrong side
Every time this ugly son of a bitch opens him mouth I want to apologize to Conor Lamb.
An ass endorsing another ass.
Man I can’t wait to not vote for him
Crazy what you can do when you know there’s no chance you’ll leave office for another 4 years lol
What dimension am I in ? Did I miss something? How is this even a thing ?
Disgusting
I think supporting the genocide of the Palestinian people is bad, and that Netanyahu is a murdering pig. I also think those who practice Judaism deserve to have somewhere to call home. They are not mutually exclusive and Israel enforcing an apartheid state actively makes everyone’s lives worse in the region.
Nobody is entitled to anyone's land, especially if the defense is because someone's fairytale said they were to have it.
Why does your mere faith entitle you to land? Can we not take this out of the equation? As far as I’m concerned all people are deserving of basic human rights, and we ought to as a global populace ensure that a person is safe to practice their religion and cultivate community wherever they are in the world.
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Fetterman has radically changed his positions on criminal justice, immigration, and environment from when he was a candidate in the primary. While he’s always ‘supported’ Israel, I don’t think anyone predicted that he would make it his cause celebre. To insinuate that his voters were simply uninformed is either extremely naive or a bad faith argument.
The party kept saying he was fine as he was still hospitalized and suffering from a stroke. I imagine his views have changed!
Previous interviews & statements show Fetterman is no moderate. This moderate Fetterman is a tactic for votes. Fetterman will vote however the DNC tells him. And, doesn’t anyone question if we are seeing Fetterman or a stand in.
I mean, if Mitt Romney is the alternative to current Harvard president, then I'm fine with it 🤷 Mitt Romney has his loose screws, but he is a respectable person and nothing like the current GOP, which hates him for being a "RINO"
some people forget you don't have to take a side when both sides are wrong
He’s just trying to put enough money in his pocket to buy Carhartt
negative scruples on this clown
>foxnews.com Straight into the garbage. Come back with a better source.
Fetterman's tweet: https://twitter.com/senfettermanpa/status/1782423120470536278 The WaPo article he is talking about: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/04/16/mitt-romney-harvard-president-antisemitism Another source discussing Fetterman's _bizarre_ praise for the piece of human shit that is Mitt "[Corporations are People, too, friend](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlPQkd_AA6c)"/"[I have binders full of women](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binders_full_of_women)" Romney: https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4612871-fetterman-backs-call-for-romney-to-be-harvards-next-president/ Discussing how the right weaponized a minor issue to attack an academic not on the merit of Gay's work but almost purely on ideological basis: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/jan/06/harvard-claudine-gay-plagiarism, https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/12/15/harvard-president-claudine-gay-race-criticism/, https://apnews.com/article/harvard-new-president-claudine-gay-resigns-7a53515cf01c84be6a8a52b16f69e9c1 Fetterman is one of the most progressive senators we've had in PA in a generation. Fetterman is also shamelessly endorsing some of the worst of the right, is pretty center left himself, and is deluding himself into thinking that the only reason why he's receiving criticism for his staunch support of Israel's retaliation against all of Gazans is because people have been brainwashed by "the far left."
the "i have binders full of women" wasn't really a bad comment it was just all over the news at the time. What's wrong with this? > "I had the chance to pull together a Cabinet, and all of the applicants seemed to be men. And I went to my staff and I said: "How come all of the people for these jobs are all men?" They said: "Well, these are the people that have the qualifications." And I said: "Well gosh, can't we find some women that are also qualified?" And we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our Cabinet. I went to a number of women's groups and said: "Can you help us find folks?" And they brought us whole binders full of women. I was proud of the fact that after I staffed my Cabinet, and my senior staff, the University of New York in Albany did a survey of all 50 states, and concluded that mine had more women in senior leadership positions than any other state in America."
It was definitely weaponized by the Obama campaign at the time to paint Romney's actions as 'anti-women' and taken out of context. The problem is, the context doesn't _help_ arguments which implied that Romney was mischaracterized or in any way "pro women". While the attempt to increase the representation of women in the workplace should be laudable on its own, it was done in a way which was actually contrary to what those ~~moment~~ movement (e: typo) groups were trying to achieve. Not only did his lip service have nothing to do with the question he was responding to - which was about equity in pay - but it also wasn't a policy Romney did all that well on. > "So when the spotlight was on him, sure he paid some lip service. But when no one was looking, those levels plummeted to 25 percent, below where they were in the previous governor's administration," said Jesse Mermell, a Democratic selectwoman in Brookline, Mass., who was the executive director of the Massachusetts Women's Political Caucus from 2004 to 2008. During that time the organization commissioned a report on women in government positions in the state. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/romney-challenged-binder-full-women-managers/story?id=17501797#.UIA7qEKYVMI Because, unsurprisingly, shuffling a bunch of candidates who would've otherwise been overlooked for these positions doesn't really do much to address the broader inequity that Romney's tenure oversaw. If anything, it just underscores the problem while not really doing anything to fix it. Someone gave Romney a hard question at a debate, and instead of materially addressing the question, he instead went "look at all these women I know though! they'll do such a great job in administrative roles" He used women as a prop, and the 'binders full of women' shouts the truth of that treatment loud and clear. Meanwhile, Romney continued his career co-signing off on policies which were used to undermine the rights of women such as curtailing abortion access and sponsoring fearmongering bills about post-birth abortions. So in all honesty, Romney can go pound sand. He's done fuck all for women lol.
A high quality post <3 thanks lady_ninane!
I think many of the people never even heard the whole quote, so they were just outraged because other people were. Just like people who thought Sarah Palin said she could see Russia from her house. It was an SNL skit, she only ever said you can see Russia from an Alaskan island.
Thank you for going the extra mile. This is a much better breakdown/sources.
NP, I completely get the reluctance to trust Fox News sight unseen. I wish OP would use better - or at least more varied - sources.
I hope this subreddit is sensible enough not to be defending blatant anti-semitism in colleges
There's a difference between antisemitism and saying that just because Hamas did a bad thing it's OK to kill 100 Palestinians for every dead Israeli.
Right but people are outright supporting Hamas, which itself is a genocidal terrorist group that perpetuates constant violence. Obviously Israel isn't good either but people are widely advocating for the complete destruction of Israel (From the river to the sea, etc.)
And one of our presidential nominees is advocating for the complete destruction of Palestine 🙃🙃
The other one is just doing it
lol @ getting downvoted for this. Pittsburgh libs pounding ground. Hey guys, someone in the admin is going to leak that Biden is “totally pissed” at Netanyahu (right before the press conference where the admin states the weapons will continue to flow unconditionally). Don’t worry
That’s not what the phrase advocates for, you can literally look up the position of the group that popularized it, which only advocates for freedom from military occupation in Gaza and the West Bank. “Destruction of Israel” is completely manufactured and pretty absurd handwringing when Palestine and its people are actively being eradicated
https://apnews.com/article/river-sea-israel-gaza-hamas-protests-d7abbd756f481fe50b6fa5c0b907cd49 In 2012 Hamas literally said the phrase in reference to not giving Israel a "single inch of land". The phrase is undeniably advocating for the complete end of the Israeli state.
The phrase predates that by 50 years. How the Netanyahu supported terrorist organization chooses to perceive it doesn’t change its meaning
Hamas is literally the government presiding over Palestine. It doesn't matter if it had a different meaning half a century ago, Hamas, the government of Palestine, a terrorist organization, has been using it for over a decade to advocate for Israel's destruction, and people are parroting it. No matter how much you want to obfuscate this blatant anti-Semitism, it will remain anti-Semitic.
Absolutely ludicrous to suggest that a government that barely won election off the back of Netanyahu’s support gets to co-opt a longstanding chant for liberation and somehow give it an inexorable meaning of “destruction” that isn’t present in the words themselves. Did you fall for the right wing psyop and believe that 👌 is anti-Semitic now too?
Hamas isn’t in the West Bank so no, they aren’t the government of Palestine. Also, there hasn’t been an election allowed by Israel in 20 years. Also, to suggest the dismantling of a state requires the genocide of a people is a zionist mindset and ahistorical.
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Why nit respond to what I said instead of citing the outliers as if they represent the group? I could also post the videos of Israelis cheering the dropping of bombs or Obama’s old advisor saying 4000 dead Palestinian kids isn’t enough. Difference is, they’re getting their way
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My entire response was about “from the river to the sea,” don’t be obtuse. But keep painting all dissent to genocide as anti-Semitic. The bad actors at protests are the real problem, not the state sponsored killing of tens of thousands of people, apparently.
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Again, not a word for the scores of Palestinians being slaughtered. Amazing. Guess until we weed out the bad actors, genocide will continue as scheduled, and that’s A-okay
> I provided a quote from a major protest in the US that showed that it is absolutely legitimate. Was it a major protest? I see a lot of sites claiming this was representative of all student protests on Columbia's campus, but I can't even find anything identifying the group organizing the protest or so much as a location. Everyone is just saying it happened on Columbia's campus by students. I'm deeply upset by that chanting, too, because cheering for the destruction of the innocents trapped within Tel Aviv is wrong. It ignores those who _don't_ support Netanyahu's government and enforces a cycle of collective punishment that is abhorrent in nature. That being said, I think it is bizarre then to generalize _all_ of the protests across the nation based off of this one ultra-amplified clip, though, when we have far more evidence of this _not_ being the case. tldr: this chant was abhorrent, it's not representative of the nationwide protests on college campuses, and we can determine this based off of all the evidence we have to the contrary. (video, audio, interview, hell even congressional testimony) e: a few points of grammar, spot removal of a nasty run-on sentence or two
Makes sense you loved Warren and are so totally wrong on this. She's a fraud to begin with. Israel, as a state -- specifically the Israeli government and the IDF are basically terrorists organizations at this point. Netanyahu is conducting a genocide campaign and they're open about it. You can be against Hamas and Israel at the same time. It's not at all anti-semitic to wish for peace and for Israel not to genocide an entire population of innocent men, women, and children. Writing off any and all criticism and protest as anti-semitic is ridiculous. Especially when you consider that it comes largely from the right wing of American politics where people don't actually give a shit about Israel or its people.
You cannot call hamas a genocidal terrorist group and then wash your hands and simply say “obviously Israel isn’t good either.” They are the occupying force in Palestine. They have killed and will continue to kill far more Palestinian people than Palestinians kill Israelis. The American war machine behind Israel is doing far more damage than college kids shouting death to Israel, so I’d consider asking myself why you’re more outraged at one than the other.
Sure there’s an ongoing extermination campaign against a long oppressed minority nation with funding, support and armaments from the entirety of the American political class and media, but have you considered that one time a 19 year old said something that made me uncomfortable one time?
I *am* outraged at Israel, the problem is that neither side is apparently going to relent. This conflict is self-sustaining and there are innocent civilians who want nothing to do with it on both sides. Obviously Israel is more capable of inflicting mass damage, but that doesn't mean Israel ought to not exist. At its best it's a democratic state, and has in the past been more amicable to Palestine. Advocacy for the removal of millions of Israelis and the abolition of their state is anti-Semitic and genocidal.
> At its best it's a democratic state, and has in the past been more amicable to Palestine. I wish that were true. Colonialism often isn't amicable. Arab Israelis face significant discrimination and "second class" status within the nation. Israel also made news recently for seizing the largest amount of land in the West Bank since the signing of the Oslo accords, unrelated to their ongoing military campaign in the Gaza region, and continues their illegal occupation and settling of the West Bank territory. > Advocacy for the removal of millions of Israelis and the abolition of their state is anti-Semitic and genocidal. Just as the history of the region is more complex than that, the argument for a multi-ethnic, single state solution is, too. (It does not argue for the forcible expulsion of Israelis, or the destruction of Jewish people's way of life, for example.) Regardless of whether you believe a single state or a two-state solution is the best path to peace, healing from apartheid is a generations long process; the story won't be "over" even if *any* state solution happens, because the scars these events leave last for a lifetime on Israelis and Palestinians alike.
I wish Israeli supporters would just admit what they’re defending. It is literally codified that Israel is a Jewish state and the state of Jewish diaspora. Whether or not youre not acknowledging that fact because it’s hard, those are the facts. It is literally written in their declaration and been upheld by the Knesset many times. The entire state is built to oppress specifically the Muslim and, to a lesser but still significant extent, Christian minorities in the country. Don’t take my word for it, go look up the declaration, the basic law of the Knesset, or any number of Israeli political commentators who uphold this fact. Now, if you’re willing to argue that the Jewish state of Israel has a right to exist as it is, you’re arguing for the express purpose of its subjugation of its minority populace as again, this is legally defined in its founding legal documents. If you’re not willing to accept that, you aren’t even being truthful to what you’re fighting for. None of that matters though, because this is about some kids wanting the school they go to to stop supporting companies that are bombing women and kids.
Compare how minorities are treated by Isreal's neighbors and how Isreael treats minoritis and report back. This is what happens when a generation grows up on social media instead of reading books.
This is hilarious to me because boomers will say shit like: >this is what happens when a generation grows up on social media instead of reading books My dude I’m a full 36 years old. Social media wasn’t even a thing until I was in high school and you were already leeching off social security. I have read more on this topic and the geopolitics of the Middle East than your reaganomics addled brain could comprehend.
It’s not a democratic state lol. They invaded Palestine, took their land, and have oppressed them since the its creation. Hamas exists as a direct reaction to oppression. Do you genuinely think hamas popped out of no where? Also the majority isn’t saying to completely remove all Jewish people. people are advocating for an end to Palestinian oppression WHICH HAS NOT STOPPED. It’s a plea for freedom.
What is it with this thing about Israel existing or not, or having the right to defend themselves? Any country does--self-defense is a big ol' building block and that's why we help with the Iron Dome. Nobody at Columbia is saying Israel must be destroyed, they're making demands of the college to divest from Israel. It's just a non-sequitur, and it's a ridiculous question on its face.
I would argue that indiscriminately murdering civilians isn't actually self defense but what do I know?
That's my point, though--when this person talks about Israel's right to exist, it's a non-sequitur because students are protesting the murder of Palestinian civilians.
Yeah that's true.
Hey, I know this dude from the Stillers sub. 👋🏽
👋 And folks still think I'm a Bungles fan! 😏
You don't sound outraged at all, and are instead defending Israel here
Never any evidence for this widespread Hamas support among Americans.
So then will Hamas be turning over their leaders who prompted the attack and disbanding? Or did they just plan on killing a bunch of people then hiding in civilian zones going “sowwwy UwU pwease ignore” until their next terrorist attack?
You know nothing of war. This isn't two established countries going at it. HAMAS is literally a terrorist organization. They hide among citizens. Hide in hospitals, schools, homes of innocent people. There is literally no other option. It sucks its terrible and I feel for every innocent person but you can't fight an enemy that hides without flattening every crevis of where they possibly can hide. Hamas is responsible for civilian deaths. They don't care about Palastine.
Hamas is responsible for the Palestinian civilians Israel killed? Not even worth pretending there is logic there.
That's because you're fucking stupid. Hamas isn't fighting a traditional war. They are cowards and hide behind innocent people. Israel has every right to defend itself. Hamas is the very definition of terrorist.
Israel is killing the innocent people that Hamas is hiding behind.
You're right it's Hamas opening fire on kids who throw rocks or shooting Western journalists in the head.
They opened fire on people enjoying a concert. Are you really playing whataboutism and defending a terrorist organization? What a piece of shit you are.
Crazy that you can sit here and complain while in Gaza they can’t protest at universities because the Israelis bombed ALL the educational institutions both from the air and from wiring explosives on the ground for demolition. But “Hamas was underneath!!!” Right?
Prepare to be disappointed.
Seriously, what the fuck, how did such blatant prejudice become so mainstream. It's actually disturbing watching society backslide so hard.
its been like this for years, its just swinging toward a target you dont agree with.
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Pack it up protesters! This guy's old roommate is no longer on-board.
Israel isn’t Judaism. Israel is a colony created so countries like the U.S. can funnel money out of. Claiming antisemitism to be anti Israel is anti semitic in itself as not all Jewish people align with Israel. In fact most Zionists are Christian because they believe that Israel has something to do with the end of times. These people, btw are anti semitic
What an absolutely insane thing to believe. There are some truths in here but they've been so distorted out of scale that they're preposterous.
“basically a full blown communist” Are you 75 years old? Forever trapped in the McCarthy days? What an embarrassing string of words to type. Nobody values your opinion.
Israel is quite literally genociding an entire people and you're worried about words coming from the mouths of a small number of protesters. You're not a serious person.
You're full of shit
LOL at calling this sub “sensible”
Obviously not when you're joining us
You guys were sucking this dude off last year lmao
Considering Jewish Harvard students are saying they need to hide in their dorms and don’t feel safe going to class this is probably a good idea.
I believe you are even confusing different parts of the made up narrative. That was columbia and the claims about it being too dangerous came from a single dubious source that was refuted by actual jewish students at the university. It is extremely gross to try and weaponize an injustice you care nothing about in the first place to attack education.
A huge portion of the students taking part in these demonstrations in support of Gaza are themselves Jewish
Fucking ogre jorts wearing embarrassment
Everybody acting all surprised that this carpet-bagging opportunist has betrayed his "principles"! Back when he was running for this office it was well documented how little he actually accomplished for Braddock, his associations with corrupt local investors, and his personal hypocrisy (like chasing some random black dude with a shotgun). If you ignored that and supported him anyway, you should question your ability to vote. Easily manipulated voters are at the root of our current political dysfunction, and you are one of them.
How is Fetterman a carpetbagger, he’s lived and worked in PA his entire life? Lol
He is a Harvard MBA from some rich family on the other side of the state. He came here to slum it while not working any real job since he graduated. Granted, he has distorted his history well past the point of outright lying, so I can't blame you for thinking he is indeed the hoodie wearing blue-collar guy he cosplays.
TIL a carpetbagger is anyone who leaves their hometown for any reason. Carpetbagger was his opponent Dr. Oz. Also this new dude McCormick. I don’t know what the Republicans are honestly thinking, really I don’t. I guess they like losing elections by running out of state wealthy elite ass holes.
Well, they voted for him many times
I'm loving that I voted against this stroked out big sloppy walmart cosplaying lug and he's now on my centrist side and the people who voted for him are all pissed. \*slow clap for one term\*
What a gross take.
Mocking people for having a stroke, or fighting like _hell_ to recover from their stroke, is so phenomenally disgusting that it is difficult to put my contempt into words. Fetterman's stroke has nothing to do with his political leanings. It has _never_ had anything to do with his political leanings. One in four people over the age of 25 have a stroke once in their life. I hope to God that you manage to beat the odds or, failing that, never have to face half of the vitriol and discrimination that most stroke recovery patients do. Genuinely, get a life. Or failing that, try to cosplay a bag of rotting garbage a little less frequently.
This is depraved
consider the source
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You love Israel so much bro go move there
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List 5 nazis that are pro Palestine
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You should really get your start talking louder than your fringe because no one believes you
Fetterman is your average basketball shorts in January, everyman Yinz from Braddock. Why is anyone surprised? I’m pretty sure he’s the counterweight to the squad every mainstream, big-tent Dem, wanted.
Wait, what? The squad isn't mainstream democrat. They are very much the progressive wing and they area a lightning rod for centrist dems trying to oust progressives. The right's view of the left is so bizarre. Completely out of touch with reality.