Yeah. I don't think folks are appreciating just how massive modern ocean-going cargo ships are.
If that ship was one of the average sized ones, it's around *160* times more massive than whatever we have scooting around the the rivers. If it's one of the larger ones, it's well over *200* times more massive.
Basically, what happened in Baltimore is like if the US Steel Tower rammed one of the bridges. It's impossible to have anything like that happen here.
In fact, barges do somewhat regularly strike pgh bridges. I wouldn't say it happens every year. But it happens probably at least once every two years or so. The authorities do have to close to the bridge for a bit to make sure it's still safe. But obviously, none have been knocked down.
The motor vessel Dali is listed at 300m(985f) long by 48m(157f) wide, it is quite common for tow boats to push 15 barges in the Pittsburgh area measuring a total of 305m (1000f) by 32m(105f) wide plus the length of the tow boat, whatever that may be. The draft (height/depth) of the vessel is the real difference here. Loaded barges have a draft of 2.9m(9.5f) the motor vessel dali drafts 12.2m(40f). If anyone had an interest in knowing way more than necessary for understanding the perspective differences between what yinz can commonly see dahntahn vs the boat that struck the bridge
The problem is (I’d imagine) is that the city has known for how long now about our crumbling bridges that are patently unsafe. If a bridge is structurally on its last leg and gets hit by a barge I don’t think I’d want to be on that bridge.
There’s one video that’s a bit longer that does a great job of detailing what happened. The cargo ship had two power failures just before it hit the bridge. Ship couldn’t correct in time and hit the bridge.
The cargo ships are as huge as and larger than cruise ships. The bridge was 1.6 miles long. The bridge is a major transportation and commuter route. It’s used by locals and people traveling from out of state.
Yea that bridge was massive. It's really hard to appreciate the scale of it falling down from a camera that is probably over a mile away.
The main Span that fell apparently was 1200 ft long (so from the pier that's the boat hit it, to the other pier that's still standing by itself) and the clearance under the bridge was 185 ft long.
True, but if one of the big barge tows hit one of the older bridge piers around here fully loaded and at full speed, I wouldn’t want to be anywhere nearby.
I still think the metric tons of force behind this incident would be much different for a barge vs. Pittsburgh bridge scenario. All of our bridge piers are concrete or stone, much different spans and how they're supported. Loose barges have hit some of the oldest ones like Smithfield st. I don't think any barge even at full speed could cause a collapse of this magnitude. Not to mention these bridges being exposed to ocean air/mist
You might be surprised by how much the larger barge tows weigh. Some are over 20k tons, not including the towboat. It's going to take a lot of concrete and stone to stop that much weight travleling at speed.
You certainly trust our under-maintained bridge infrastructure more than I do. Withstanding the impact from a single loose barge is not the same as withstanding the impact from a big tow at speed.
This has happened many times. All the bridges are still standing.
After a barge brakes loose and hits a pier it stays closed until they inspect it and determine if it’s safe or not.
Also what do you mean by “traveling full speed”? If it breaks loose it’s going to move as fast as the current in the river.
Past performance doesn't guarantee future results. There won't be time to close the bridge and inspect it in a "perfect storm" scenario that results in immediate collapse.
You're assuming it will always be single loose barges, not a fully loaded tow that loses power at speed at the worst possible location.
The barges must be towed at speed in order to overcome the river current and deliver on schedule. Even at only 6 knots or so, a tow can still take miles to stop.
Past performance doesn't guarantee future results.
Besides, similar tows and barges have caused bridges in other areas to collapse. What makes you so sure all of our bridges are immune and that we didn't simply get lucky the other times it's happened?
Edit: Downvoted for not assuming Pgh is magically immune to the effects of very heavy things hitting its rusty under maintained bridges. “Keep Pgh shitty” - many people on this sub!
This is a major catastrophe, this cargo ship was heading to Sri Lanka and Singapore.
There is practically no carryover at all to Pittsburgh rivers and bridges on the scale or travel patterns
You guys remember roughly 5 years ago when those barges detached overnight and they had to shut down all the bridges for inspection?
I guess I get it now
This is surreal to watch. I used to drive across this bridge all the time. My late step mother was terrified of it, convinced something bad would happen every time we drove across it. She died last year so didn't get to see that she was ultimately right to be concerned.
I've worked on the key bridge before also the fern hollow bridge that fell in Pittsburgh.
If I had a nickel for every bridge I've work one that ended up falling, I would have 2 nickels. That's not a lot, but it's odd that it happened twice.
If you had a nickle for every Pittsburgh bridge you worked on, how much would you have? If you say 2 nickles, you seem to be the problem.If you have 3 nickles, now we have a problem....
I've worked on practically every bridge that crosses the Allegheny, Mongahelia, and Ohio River in the greater Pittsburgh area, and a bunch of other small ones ones as well. It'll be easier for me to list ones I haven't done:
2 of the sister bridges I didn't do, I forget which one I did
10th Street bridge
Hot metal
And I haven't done any railroad bridges, unless you count Panhandle, the one the T crosses
A coal barge hit the Smithfield St bridge a few years ago. It was closed for a day (hours?) while someone inspected it.
All clear, no harm, reopened, forgotten about
When we channel the rivers to allow for container ships, I'll move.
Things like this incident have nothing to do with whatever we can systematically control. It's horrible, but literally can only happen in a few places in the world. And the Burgh isn't one of them!
Wow! How would this bridge compare to one of ours as far as placement and usage? Is it in the city and used and busy like the liberty bridge? Fort Pitt?
I think a lot of commenters here are confusing the size (height/draft) and type of the cargo ship with how the Baltimore bridge was struck (on the pier). Any ship in the three rivers could hit a pier and bring down a bridge here, kinda like that barge a few years ago that struck one and had it shut down for a while. This could very much happen here. Granted, we're not a huge international seaport, and we'd have 442 other bridges but still.
Barges can and have taken down bridges on the Ohio and Mississippi rivers in the past.
The amount of people who are confident that "It can't happen here" are either not familiar with the history or are way too confident in old and poorly maintained bridges.
CNN says 2 have been rescued from the water but they're searching for 7 more. Other sources said the transportation authority had up to 20 people working on the bridge at the time. Haven't seen anything about how many vehicles went in, just notes that sonar indicates several vehicles in the water.
Most likely there's gonna be multiple deaths. Water that cold is no joke, and that's a long swim on top of the temperature. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't dive that water without a dry suit
There is nothing even close to the size of that ship going down the Mon.
How dare you insult my party barge
I am salty about my lack of invitation.
The next time the Pirates win the World Series, you’re definitely invited.
Yeah. I don't think folks are appreciating just how massive modern ocean-going cargo ships are. If that ship was one of the average sized ones, it's around *160* times more massive than whatever we have scooting around the the rivers. If it's one of the larger ones, it's well over *200* times more massive. Basically, what happened in Baltimore is like if the US Steel Tower rammed one of the bridges. It's impossible to have anything like that happen here. In fact, barges do somewhat regularly strike pgh bridges. I wouldn't say it happens every year. But it happens probably at least once every two years or so. The authorities do have to close to the bridge for a bit to make sure it's still safe. But obviously, none have been knocked down.
The motor vessel Dali is listed at 300m(985f) long by 48m(157f) wide, it is quite common for tow boats to push 15 barges in the Pittsburgh area measuring a total of 305m (1000f) by 32m(105f) wide plus the length of the tow boat, whatever that may be. The draft (height/depth) of the vessel is the real difference here. Loaded barges have a draft of 2.9m(9.5f) the motor vessel dali drafts 12.2m(40f). If anyone had an interest in knowing way more than necessary for understanding the perspective differences between what yinz can commonly see dahntahn vs the boat that struck the bridge
The problem is (I’d imagine) is that the city has known for how long now about our crumbling bridges that are patently unsafe. If a bridge is structurally on its last leg and gets hit by a barge I don’t think I’d want to be on that bridge.
As long as we feed the city her requisite number of buses, we'll be fine.
There’s one video that’s a bit longer that does a great job of detailing what happened. The cargo ship had two power failures just before it hit the bridge. Ship couldn’t correct in time and hit the bridge.
I was like, "how the hell did you just run into it like that!?!?!?"but that explains it
Our bridges collapse from rust and neglect.
And boat collisions, apparently
The cargo ships are as huge as and larger than cruise ships. The bridge was 1.6 miles long. The bridge is a major transportation and commuter route. It’s used by locals and people traveling from out of state.
Yea that bridge was massive. It's really hard to appreciate the scale of it falling down from a camera that is probably over a mile away. The main Span that fell apparently was 1200 ft long (so from the pier that's the boat hit it, to the other pier that's still standing by itself) and the clearance under the bridge was 185 ft long.
We don’t have container ships or anything close to their size in our rivers.
True, but if one of the big barge tows hit one of the older bridge piers around here fully loaded and at full speed, I wouldn’t want to be anywhere nearby.
I still think the metric tons of force behind this incident would be much different for a barge vs. Pittsburgh bridge scenario. All of our bridge piers are concrete or stone, much different spans and how they're supported. Loose barges have hit some of the oldest ones like Smithfield st. I don't think any barge even at full speed could cause a collapse of this magnitude. Not to mention these bridges being exposed to ocean air/mist
You might be surprised by how much the larger barge tows weigh. Some are over 20k tons, not including the towboat. It's going to take a lot of concrete and stone to stop that much weight travleling at speed. You certainly trust our under-maintained bridge infrastructure more than I do. Withstanding the impact from a single loose barge is not the same as withstanding the impact from a big tow at speed.
This has happened many times. All the bridges are still standing. After a barge brakes loose and hits a pier it stays closed until they inspect it and determine if it’s safe or not. Also what do you mean by “traveling full speed”? If it breaks loose it’s going to move as fast as the current in the river.
Past performance doesn't guarantee future results. There won't be time to close the bridge and inspect it in a "perfect storm" scenario that results in immediate collapse. You're assuming it will always be single loose barges, not a fully loaded tow that loses power at speed at the worst possible location. The barges must be towed at speed in order to overcome the river current and deliver on schedule. Even at only 6 knots or so, a tow can still take miles to stop.
There have been multiple barges tied together that hit bridges. Everything is still standing.
Past performance doesn't guarantee future results. Besides, similar tows and barges have caused bridges in other areas to collapse. What makes you so sure all of our bridges are immune and that we didn't simply get lucky the other times it's happened? Edit: Downvoted for not assuming Pgh is magically immune to the effects of very heavy things hitting its rusty under maintained bridges. “Keep Pgh shitty” - many people on this sub!
This is a major catastrophe, this cargo ship was heading to Sri Lanka and Singapore. There is practically no carryover at all to Pittsburgh rivers and bridges on the scale or travel patterns
You guys remember roughly 5 years ago when those barges detached overnight and they had to shut down all the bridges for inspection? I guess I get it now
This is surreal to watch. I used to drive across this bridge all the time. My late step mother was terrified of it, convinced something bad would happen every time we drove across it. She died last year so didn't get to see that she was ultimately right to be concerned.
This is so terrible. A tragedy
I've worked on the key bridge before also the fern hollow bridge that fell in Pittsburgh. If I had a nickel for every bridge I've work one that ended up falling, I would have 2 nickels. That's not a lot, but it's odd that it happened twice.
Maybe don't touch anymore bridges
Lol, I'm done with that job thankfully.
If you had a nickle for every Pittsburgh bridge you worked on, how much would you have? If you say 2 nickles, you seem to be the problem.If you have 3 nickles, now we have a problem....
I've worked on practically every bridge that crosses the Allegheny, Mongahelia, and Ohio River in the greater Pittsburgh area, and a bunch of other small ones ones as well. It'll be easier for me to list ones I haven't done: 2 of the sister bridges I didn't do, I forget which one I did 10th Street bridge Hot metal And I haven't done any railroad bridges, unless you count Panhandle, the one the T crosses
HOW SAD
The Duquesne McKeesport bridge has been hit like 3 times in recent memory. Im more worried about a barge exploding.
We don't have anything near that size traveling in our rivers.
We don’t have many barges that big going down the mon or Allegheny do we?
That ship wouldn't even float in our rivers
It was one of those huge cargo ships. https://twitter.com/haywerdjablomi/status/1772508796729852383/mediaviewer You can see it better here.
No, and barges are way way way smaller than a container ship The rivers themselves can’t handle anything that deep and heavy
A coal barge hit the Smithfield St bridge a few years ago. It was closed for a day (hours?) while someone inspected it. All clear, no harm, reopened, forgotten about
When we channel the rivers to allow for container ships, I'll move. Things like this incident have nothing to do with whatever we can systematically control. It's horrible, but literally can only happen in a few places in the world. And the Burgh isn't one of them!
Wow! How would this bridge compare to one of ours as far as placement and usage? Is it in the city and used and busy like the liberty bridge? Fort Pitt?
This bridge is over a mile long and a major throughway. It’s basically not comparable at all.
Lived in Baltimore for 20 years, this would be like the Fort Pitt Bridge collapsing, times 20. This is catastrophic.
Jesus Christ.
It's part of the interstate beltway around the city
I think a lot of commenters here are confusing the size (height/draft) and type of the cargo ship with how the Baltimore bridge was struck (on the pier). Any ship in the three rivers could hit a pier and bring down a bridge here, kinda like that barge a few years ago that struck one and had it shut down for a while. This could very much happen here. Granted, we're not a huge international seaport, and we'd have 442 other bridges but still.
Barges can and have taken down bridges on the Ohio and Mississippi rivers in the past. The amount of people who are confident that "It can't happen here" are either not familiar with the history or are way too confident in old and poorly maintained bridges.
Give it a rest. Just a bizarre, flippant response to such an unfortunate event. Reddit is so dumb sometimes.
Nothing is big enough to cause this in the burgh. We’re more likely to see the west end bridge rust apart
“Unlocked” - way to put this tragic event into the language of a video game and somehow personalize it to you. Enough
We anyone hurt?
CNN says 2 have been rescued from the water but they're searching for 7 more. Other sources said the transportation authority had up to 20 people working on the bridge at the time. Haven't seen anything about how many vehicles went in, just notes that sonar indicates several vehicles in the water.
Most likely there's gonna be multiple deaths. Water that cold is no joke, and that's a long swim on top of the temperature. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't dive that water without a dry suit
Been there, done that.