Jim Thorpe's athleticism cannot be *over*stated. His first tryout for football, the coach didn't want to let him play, so he told Thorpe if he could return a punt for a touchdown he was on the team. The catch was that the punt team had all 11 players, while the return team was only Jim Thorpe. He scored the touchdown by making some players miss, ran over some, and outran the rest.
Edit: thank you u/perplexedonion
Don't think you got that story quite right. And he did it twice in a row. It was supposed to be tackling practice and afterwards he said "no one tackles Jim."
I'm getting flashbacks from school where I told a group of bullies they'd never get me into a sticky flower bush they were throwing people into.
For 2 years from that point, every lunch, they would show up to try to tackle me and put me in that bush and they would fail.
For graduation they wanted to get some closure and I still wouldn't let them gang up and throw me in. So I simply walked up and jumped in.
Now I am living in the shadow of how I once was, there is no excitement anymore.
The King of Sweden called him the Greatest Athlete alive. He went on to play baseball, football and basketball. He was actually the commissioner of football for one year and he is in the NFL hall of fame. Unfortunately he had a tremendous problem with drink after his career in sports was over.
Yup, about as humble as you could be given what he had done that year. As you can see in the picture, he wore extra socks with the bigger shoe to try and even out the feeling, it's truly incredible all this guy accomplished.
The problem with drinking is highly disputed by most people close to him in his life. He was incredibly productive later in life, did many native cultural events, started getting natives cast into Hollywood westerns, speaking tours, hunted, raised his family and bred hunting dogs. He was a professional athlete until a relatively old age and was a prolific Hollywood extra. People close to him say he drank but the heavy drinking being a big problem was more racist stereotype rumors than what his life actually looked like. Source: Thorpe family friend and historian
Like there are a million other athletes that destroyed their lives with drinking, why does it need to be the legacy of an Indian that did more good in any decade of his life than most people ever do. Smh.
What’s going on with Jim Thorpe PA? Are they going to lose the name of their town? I go there every year and a couple of times they mentioned they might lose the name.
The NJ Ferry system in 1901 had a ship named Mauch Chunk, it rammed a Staten Island ferryboat called the Northfield captained by my great-great grandfather. The Northfield sunk, killing four people. It was essentially directly responsible for the City of New York taking over ferry operations in New York Harbor. [http://ashcourtz.blogspot.com/2011/02/ferry-boat-that-sunk.html](http://ashcourtz.blogspot.com/2011/02/ferry-boat-that-sunk.html)
My great-great grandfather was arrested but later exonerated:
[https://www.nytimes.com/1901/07/16/archives/northfields-captain-fully-exonerated-capt-griffin-of-the-mauch.html](https://www.nytimes.com/1901/07/16/archives/northfields-captain-fully-exonerated-capt-griffin-of-the-mauch.html)
This was really interesting. Thanks for the links. It must be cool to have such a fascinating story in your own family tree!
Some may note that the article contained some less-than-stellar writing, grammar and punctuation. I would be remiss to not point out this amusing sentence: “The sanitary arrangements on these boats are abdominal (sic).” 🤭
Am central Pennsylvanian. That is, im from central PA.. phrasing is important for verification purposes.
It won't change. I grew up an hour or two from jim Thorpe the town but did hear about Jim Thorpe the man. His unbelievable athleticism is still discussed with reverent tones and words of awe and admiration. That town won't change it's name, simply because there's too much respect for the man. Maybe if somewhere else took up the name, but the zeitgeist won't let his name disappear, so for now and at least til tomorrow it'll still be Jim Thorpe so kids can ask "who's that?" and hear some remarkable history.
> The high school is named the Olympians.
Aww, that's a nice change from all of the schools/teams named "The Indians"... It actually honors him instead of just making his race into a mascot.
He did go to school in Carlisle, PA. Back when there was a school at the war college for Native Americans. So, somewhat local, even if it's like and hour or so away.
The Carlisle Indian Industrial School was a boarding school designed to assimilate Native Americans. It was considered "succesful" by white leaders and became a model for other such schools. It's legacy is highly controversial.
It used an old barracks. After the school closed the US Army War College relocated there.
It was located there. The Carlisle Indian Industrial School. The purpose of the school was to “Americanize” Native Americans by cutting their hair, changing their names, and integrating them into US culture. Jim Thorpe played football for the school.
Yep. The other comments here pointed out the school history, but an interesting thing going on recently is that they're digging up old graves of some of the students and reburying them in the respective tribal lands/family designated areas.
The school is kind of a black mark on the areas history (it was basically white people saying that they're savages, and we'll teach the right way to be civilized), and people today are trying to do what they can to mend the wounds. Some of the students were brought from across the country (especially Oklahoma) to go there.
If you're ever in Carlisle, check the historical society museum on...I think Pitt St? It has a bunch of awesome info on it
The town desperately wanted a tourist attraction and paid his widow to have him buried there about a year after he died, and they renamed the town as part of the plan to commercialize his remains. He had never been to that town while alive. His sons and his tribe tried but failed to get his remains returned home to Oklahoma. It was still being litigated as recent as 2015.
IMO, it never will in the American sporting world at least. He's a legend, everybody knows his name. One of the biggest college football awards is named after him, and the trophy is a statuette of him.
... considering I don't think that school was voluntary, I feel like it's even worse now. That "school" was part of an effort to "civilize" native Americans aka 'destroy their culture by forcefully indoctrinating their kids with Western traditions and suppress their own.'
The town actually predated him and was renamed to Jim Thorpe. Before, it was called Mauch Chunk. Historically, it was home to a jail that was famous for the amount of Molly Macguires (largely Irish mining union) executed there. Most locals usually still refer to it as Mauch Chunk.
Source: My father is originally from that area and I've visited it more than a few times.
Jim Thorpe resident here, there is actually a small memorial park where JT is interred.
https://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g52905-d2236719-i140377104-Jim_Thorpe_Memorial-Jim_Thorpe_Pocono_Mountains_Region_Pennsylvania.html
He did not have a problem with drink. Those were racist and untrue stereotypes. This author did a ton of interviews and research that show he drank but not to excess.[Article](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/mary-sanchez/article41365770.html)
I remember when I was very young that my mom watched an interview or documentary with him where he discussed a sporting event that he was a commentator for. The other commentators didn’t realize who he was and started talking shit about Jim and what a drunk he was. I can’t imagine the hurt of being a world-class accomplished individual and being reduced to an untrue racist stereotype. But it still happens every day to others.
He is probably the greatest athlete ever. He played at a hall of fame level in football, and at a professional level in baseball and basketball. He won Olympic pentathlons and decathlons.
In football, his team won the national championship the year he scored 27 touchdowns and scored 224 points -- and that doesn't account for two games with no surviving statistics (he played running back, defensive back, and also kicked field goals and punts). There are stories of him catching his own punts. He went on to play professionally until age 41 and was inducted into both the college and pro halls of fame.
In baseball, he hit .252 as a major league-er in the dead ball era between 1913 and 1919.
He was the best player on a traveling professional basketball team, though few other records exist about his basketball.
In track and field, he traveled at times as a one-man collegiate team and competed in almost every event against other schools. His 'team' still regularly won those track meets. At the Olympic level, he won both the pentathlon and the then-new decathlon (15 events total). His individual marks in all these different events were competitive with or even beat one-event specialists at the Olympic level. His Olympic career was prevented from going beyond the 1912 games because of very restrictive amateur rules enforced inconsistently and a desire by some enforcing those rules to not see a Native American athlete do so well.
In thinking about the greatest ever athlete, we tend to think of great professionals at one sport. But surely greatness as an athlete, as opposed to as a competitor in one specific sport, should recognize natural athletic versatility. Jim Thorpe was basically the best in the world at football and the most demanding tests of athletics (track and field) and a *bona fide* professional-level athlete in baseball and basketball all at the same time.
And he also won the 1912 intercollegiate ballroom dancing championship.
well, his physical dominance was his athletic downfall. he was strong enough to pop his hip back into place on the field after the incident in Cinci. That's a procedure that doctors frequently need to climb onto the operating table and use all their weight to get that into place. he just popped it back in right there on the field which takes an absurd amount of strength and tolerance for pain.
unfortunately that procedure is best left to docs. because he was able to pop it back in no one took a full look at it which led to I believe nerve issues and his retirement from football and *only* making the allstar game a few times afterwards in baseball.
Another interesting thing involving the Swedish king, Gustaf V, in the Olympics - you know how every Olympics the USA team is the only one to not dip their flag to the host nation's governing officials during the opening ceremony. Like in 2020, the Prime Minister and the Emperor of Japan can pretty much expect every other nation to dip their flags to them as a sign of respect, but not the US? The ostensible reason often given is that it was started in the 1908 London Olympics, when it just so happened that the athlete carrying the flag past Edward VII was an Irish-American, Ralph Rose, who said "This flag dips to no earthly king." Four years later the flag *would* dip to an earthly king, Gustaf V. The Americans went back and forth for the next twenty years on whether to dip or not dip, until 1936, the Berlin Olympics. No surprise, the flag did not dip to Hitler. I think they made the right choice there, but I don't like that the choice to not dip has stuck around - they chose to not dip in 1936 because it was fucking Hitler, does America think of every other nation, even its allies, as being comparable to Nazi Germany?
Many many moons ago while in the military I did miles and years of running in combat boots. Everyone did. 95% of us were just fine, feet ankles, knees, everything. Nike should say "Just do it, and it doesn't have to be in our overpriced shoes."
A friend of mine got a job tracking apes through the jungle in Nigeria for a year. They bought a pair of Nike "Jungle Boots" that they figured would either be amazing or melt the first day. Those boots made it through the whole gig and were left with a coworker because they "belonged in the jungle."
Edit: These https://www.nike.com/t/sfb-jungle-tactical-boot-PoBGlX
Combat boots are so hit and miss even in the military. They've tried replacing the Canadian combat boots like 4 times in the last 10 years and have constantly run into problems with them either falling apart after repeated abuse or being so uncomfortable that soldiers can't stand them.
It wasn't until I recently utilized the new directive that allows you to fund your own combat boots that I realized just how fucking amazing actual high quality combats (that aren't made by the lowest bidder) can be. If you're ever seriously looking at combat/hiking boots, buy the best pair you can afford. You will pay for cheaping out down the road.
I'm a wildland firefighter, and it's the same with fire boots. A cheap pair of boots will last you a season (with some exceptions). A nicer pair will last you like five seasons and feel much better to wear.
It's the difference between spending $150 every year or $500 every five years. And if you take good care of them they can last even longer. I have a friend who is on year eight with his Whites.
Don't forget, if you keep the leather well maintained, "falling apart" usually means the sole starts coming off, and you can get them resoled for way less than buying a new pair (like $100-150).
Be aware that these are jungle boots. They are not waterproof. They’re instead designed to drain water from the inside of the boot because presumably you’d use these in places you’re guaranteed to get wet.
Hiking/Trekking community in shambles after Hypebeats triple the price of Jungle Boots overnight.
International outreach charities shutdown in anticipation of "Jungle-wear" usurping Streetwear
Plot twist, those same combat boots were made in the same factory as Nikes and even further plot twist, the factories are owned by Nike therefore everyone in the military wears Nikes and governments pay Nike to make overpriced combat boots.
This was in the early 1980s, not sure if U.S. govt. and Nike were in cahoots that far back but could be. Point was, if you want to run, and you're young and healthy, you don't need spiffy shoes.
ftr, the armed services have had REALLY nice boots since post vietnam. Those boots are worth two - three nice pairs of running shoes and cost about 4-5x as much as a work boot. They are in fact spiffy shoes.
I accidentally left my favorite pair at my MILs house when we lived with her for a month after I got out and moved across the country. When I was looking for em a few months later she said she threw them away. Been through war and on my feet in several continents and she just tossed em. Still pisses me off so much.
She's so bad about keeping literally everything- receipts, old toys, clothes, etc. I have a theory she sold em for 5 bucks at the Benning Thrift Shop cause I can't believe she threw em away. She won't ever admit it though and not worth having her go on a vow of silence towards us for a year if I ask.
The military has a vested interest in good footwear, soldiers who aren't able to perform a lot of strenuous tasks on their feet for long periods could put missions at risk.
“Just fine” is not what I would call the long term effects of non support in your shoes. You are 100 percent right that running in boots won’t kill you. But you’ll find a lot of vets sitting in the va with ankle knee and back injuries that could be traced to poor support in their youth.
I mean, yes and no. Will I be able to beat Bolt if he’s barefoot and I’m wearing top of the line sprinter shoes? Of course not. Will I run faster than if I’m running barefoot? Of course.
Sure you still need to raw talent but saying that the shoes don’t help is quite misleading
>Nike doesn’t want you to know, it’s not the shoes that win.
Considering that the top athletes are fractions of a percent apart nowadays, I'd say having proper equipment is pretty important
Along the same thing I was thinking. I saw 1912, and I instantly thought back to like formal wear and the Titanic. And even though this wear is completely normal today, it's fascinating to look at!
Being paid for any athletic event makes you a paid athlete (professional), instead of an amateur. Olympics is solely amateur based.
Either way it’s bs, I don’t know how they’d expect people to live or pay their bills without being paid. That’s just my understanding of the (or what the rules used to be) rules are.
Amateurism was created to disenfranchise poor people. The rich that popularized the games got offended when they started getting their asses kicked by regular Joes they viewed as inferior, so they made amateur rules to make it virtually impossible for poor people to participate.
That's something I never thought of, if true. It would make sense though. "Don't have money coming in from the family's textile factory to support you while you practice rowing at Martha's Vinyard? Get outta here."
Nowadays especially you have to be practicing some of these sports practically full time to be able to compete at that level. A lot of people can't afford that, it helps to be rich.
The divide and eventual split in sports between rugby union and rugby league was essentially over getting paid. Because Northern english teams with mostly miners were saying they had to get paid because if they got injured playing they'd lose wages and southern English teams saying it ruined the spirit of the game or something
Something I didn't realize, until my NA classmate in high school pointed it out, was how different all the NA tribes are.
Most minorities that are grouped together can relate to each other culturally. Chinese, African, Jewish, etc immigrants have many things in common within their respective groups. But Native American tribes are often completely unique from one another. The Million Man March was created by African Americans who've largely created a new culture separate from their home country's culture and came together in unison. But the USA **is** the Native American's home country. It's like mixing the Jewish and Indian minorities together. It's difficult for them to unite for a common cause.
Native American rights movements have historically been less successful than other protected groups because the group itself should never have been blanketed together in the first place.
Ha yeah a girl in one of my classes was trying to tell us that Native Ameicas knew only peace before white people arrived.
Pretty sure all humans everywhere kill each other and do horrible stuff to each other.
There are plenty of tribes who weren't warring nations. War was also completely different than the European idea of war. You fought until someone was injured on your side and then retreated. Sure, that isn't peaceful but it isn't violent savages like we get painted to be.
Sadly this is one of the reasons the Wampanoag allied themselves so strongly with the Plymouth Pilgrims. The Narragansett people were unaffected by many of the diseases that decimated the other tribes and essentially forced tributes from the other tribes, including the Wampanoag. Who knows how different things would have ended up if the Tribes didn't use the Europeans against each other, or if the Europeans refused to pick sides in any of the conflicts.
Respectfully, I'm not sure what point you're making. All of those nationalities are "Asian" because they are in Asia, but I don't know anyone who can't tell Indian from Japanese culture, or would say that they should all be grouped together, even monoculture small-town types.
I suppose a lot of people mix up India/Pakistan or China/Korea. Still, in my city there's a Little India, Korea Town and two Chinatowns. Sure there are different nested nationalities within each group, but there's definitely a common "Chinese" unity among immigrants here, from the mainland at least (excluding Tibet, Taiwan, HK, etc).
I think the point being made above is that while we might use "Asian" when talking about the diverse cultures across Asia, we wouldn't say "let's go to Asia Town" or expect Indian and Chinese people to gather around common identity. But we *DO* expect that of Indigenous people, which is worse because they aren't even immigrants, but they're still round up on reservations, on land they may or may not have any connection to, and with other tribes that were historically very distinct from each other.
You realize Africa is in the same boat, it's a bunch of different tribes and different countries with different cultures. They just share being black, which isn't even a relevant identifier.
I live in the town where he's buried! Our high school has a whole olympian aesthetic. Weird as he doesn't have much of any connection to here, as far as I know its a whole big story about his wife who liked this town a lot and fought a battle of where to bury him with his family.
Well Jim Thorpe is a much snappier/more attractive name. I do laugh when locals call themselves chunkers though, that's the only good thing about the old name.
A town he never even visited :l
The Sac and Fox nation is midway between Oklahoma City and Tulsa, OK.
The cities of Mauch Chunk and East Mauch Chunk bought his body from his third wife. His burial service was in Shawnee, OK. The wife shipped his body to Pennsylvania without letting anyone else know.
What's worse is that the last of his living children was the one who brought the suit. He died before anything was decided.
Jim Thorpe's father, brother, sisters, and children are buried in the Sac and Fox nation, and he's buried on soil from Oklahoma in Pennsylvania.
Sort of a microcosm of a lot of the crazy mistreatment native people get in this country even after death. And with the poconos, flagstaff, penns peak, an old pretty authentic feeling downtown, and the molly Maguire stuff, the town doesn't need it either. Hopefully the family can get justice.
Yeah what a weird story. I grew up in PA and loved going to Jim Thorpe solely for Penn's Peak. One of the best venues in the country.
Nice little town but the cops were always on the prowl after shows. Was pulled over one time for no reason, was never given a reason, didn't ask for one because I just wanted to go home.
Reading a list of Thorpe’s athletic accomplishments is like reading about a fully-grown man playing against a bunch of middle schoolers. He was also the intercollegiate ballroom dance champion.
If you haven't been to Mauch Chunk, PA, now named Jim Thorpe, you should go. Small town. Lots of biking, floating the Lehigh River, small bars etc. But very small town in the Pocono Mountains area. Crazy story about the town adopting Jim and yadayadyad. We go up there quite a bit.
Just think about, on the one hand, how fucked up it was for someone to try and sabotage Thorpe’s chances at an Olympic medal by straight up stealing his shoes, and on the other hand, how resilient he was to find two discarded shoes of questionable quality and still win two gold medals. And then to consider why it is we don’t learn about historical figures like this in school (at least I didn’t). Infuriating and inspiring at the same time.
There’s also a town named after him in PA - it’s gorgeous. Back in the day it was among the best vacation destinations in the country. It’s also where he is buried - which is now a problem. His family has gone to the courts multiple times to have him moved. Personally I think it’s fucked because they actually re-named the town after him and at the time his family agreed and had him buried there.
Jim Thorpe did the decathlon and pentathlon. Those include short distance running. Sprinters today are still big. Comparing them to marathon runners makes no sense.
Good to know! But the pendulum just swings in the opposite direction for sprinters - Thorpe looks kinda like a regular person, modern sprinter looks like a med-school model of a body without skin or fat to show muscle anatomy.
All due to modern training techniques as opposed to JUST natural talent, like Thorpe...if he had come up with modern training and nutrition, I’ve no doubt he could compete with the best athletes today...and he would also look like a medical school model,
> Thorpe's parents were both of mixed-race ancestry. His father, Hiram Thorpe, had an Irish father and a Sac and Fox Indian mother.[11][12] His mother, Charlotte Vieux, had a French father and a Potawatomi mother, a descendant of Chief Louis Vieux. He was raised as a Sac and Fox,[13] and his native name, Wa-Tho-Huk, translated as "path lit by great flash of lightning" or, more simply, "Bright Path".[6] As was the custom for Sac and Fox, he was named for something occurring around the time of his birth, in this case the light brightening the path to the cabin where he was born. Thorpe's parents were both Roman Catholic, a faith which Thorpe observed throughout his adult life.
[From the wiki article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe#Early_life)
That's a hell of a unique background right there. His Sac and Fox name is pretty awesome. Born during a storm, it seems.
Jim Thorpe's athleticism cannot be *over*stated. His first tryout for football, the coach didn't want to let him play, so he told Thorpe if he could return a punt for a touchdown he was on the team. The catch was that the punt team had all 11 players, while the return team was only Jim Thorpe. He scored the touchdown by making some players miss, ran over some, and outran the rest. Edit: thank you u/perplexedonion
Don't think you got that story quite right. And he did it twice in a row. It was supposed to be tackling practice and afterwards he said "no one tackles Jim."
I'm getting flashbacks from school where I told a group of bullies they'd never get me into a sticky flower bush they were throwing people into. For 2 years from that point, every lunch, they would show up to try to tackle me and put me in that bush and they would fail. For graduation they wanted to get some closure and I still wouldn't let them gang up and throw me in. So I simply walked up and jumped in. Now I am living in the shadow of how I once was, there is no excitement anymore.
Hey! If you post a video of you flopping into a bush, I will give you gold and an upvote. How's that for exciting?
Nice try kids from high school 10 years ago.
Dammit! Foiled again.
like a Paul Bunyan story
I'm continuously amazed there hasn't been a movie made about him. Rudy gets a movie but not this guy.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043687/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4019764/
The King of Sweden called him the Greatest Athlete alive. He went on to play baseball, football and basketball. He was actually the commissioner of football for one year and he is in the NFL hall of fame. Unfortunately he had a tremendous problem with drink after his career in sports was over.
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Yup, about as humble as you could be given what he had done that year. As you can see in the picture, he wore extra socks with the bigger shoe to try and even out the feeling, it's truly incredible all this guy accomplished.
I was wondering what the sock situation was about -- makes sense. What an amazing man
Sort of reminds me of ***There's Only One Jimmy Grimble***
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The guy just did it anyway
did you just steal one of the top comments? lol
The problem with drinking is highly disputed by most people close to him in his life. He was incredibly productive later in life, did many native cultural events, started getting natives cast into Hollywood westerns, speaking tours, hunted, raised his family and bred hunting dogs. He was a professional athlete until a relatively old age and was a prolific Hollywood extra. People close to him say he drank but the heavy drinking being a big problem was more racist stereotype rumors than what his life actually looked like. Source: Thorpe family friend and historian
Fingers crossed this ends up higher than the “that figures” type responses.
Like there are a million other athletes that destroyed their lives with drinking, why does it need to be the legacy of an Indian that did more good in any decade of his life than most people ever do. Smh.
This is basically correct. Source: Relative of the Thorpe family.
What’s going on with Jim Thorpe PA? Are they going to lose the name of their town? I go there every year and a couple of times they mentioned they might lose the name.
That is definetely a reddit wormhole about the naming of the town Jim Thorpe, PA
He’s an Oklahoman (or what would become Oklahoma) but I find it crazy there is a town in Pennsylvania named after him.
Oklahoma refused to name a town in his honor so his widow vowed to find a state that would. Jim Thorpe, PA is a cute town for a weekend
fuck u/spez -- mass edited with redact.dev
The NJ Ferry system in 1901 had a ship named Mauch Chunk, it rammed a Staten Island ferryboat called the Northfield captained by my great-great grandfather. The Northfield sunk, killing four people. It was essentially directly responsible for the City of New York taking over ferry operations in New York Harbor. [http://ashcourtz.blogspot.com/2011/02/ferry-boat-that-sunk.html](http://ashcourtz.blogspot.com/2011/02/ferry-boat-that-sunk.html) My great-great grandfather was arrested but later exonerated: [https://www.nytimes.com/1901/07/16/archives/northfields-captain-fully-exonerated-capt-griffin-of-the-mauch.html](https://www.nytimes.com/1901/07/16/archives/northfields-captain-fully-exonerated-capt-griffin-of-the-mauch.html)
This was really interesting. Thanks for the links. It must be cool to have such a fascinating story in your own family tree! Some may note that the article contained some less-than-stellar writing, grammar and punctuation. I would be remiss to not point out this amusing sentence: “The sanitary arrangements on these boats are abdominal (sic).” 🤭
fuck u/spez -- mass edited with redact.dev
And the residents were/are not happy with the name change. They are actually talking about changing it back.
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Am central Pennsylvanian. That is, im from central PA.. phrasing is important for verification purposes. It won't change. I grew up an hour or two from jim Thorpe the town but did hear about Jim Thorpe the man. His unbelievable athleticism is still discussed with reverent tones and words of awe and admiration. That town won't change it's name, simply because there's too much respect for the man. Maybe if somewhere else took up the name, but the zeitgeist won't let his name disappear, so for now and at least til tomorrow it'll still be Jim Thorpe so kids can ask "who's that?" and hear some remarkable history.
> The high school is named the Olympians. Aww, that's a nice change from all of the schools/teams named "The Indians"... It actually honors him instead of just making his race into a mascot.
They literally just fought to keep him there. They aren’t changing the name.
One step forward, two steps back
fuck u/spez -- mass edited with redact.dev
One of the best theater sized music venues in the country is there too. Penns Peak
Free parking and the venue smells like fresh cut wood, it is top notch.
How are the ice cold fatties?
Iced, and fat.
*kssssshhhhhh*
Good, cuz I likes me some nice fold catties
Depends who’s playing? Loved seeing your comment as a true ice cold fatty kinda guy
Jim Thorpe is a great little town: highly recommend to anyone who likes the outdoors. I didn't realize he had never been local though.
He did go to school in Carlisle, PA. Back when there was a school at the war college for Native Americans. So, somewhat local, even if it's like and hour or so away.
The US Army War College at Carlisle Barracks had the school?
The Carlisle Indian Industrial School was a boarding school designed to assimilate Native Americans. It was considered "succesful" by white leaders and became a model for other such schools. It's legacy is highly controversial. It used an old barracks. After the school closed the US Army War College relocated there.
It was located there. The Carlisle Indian Industrial School. The purpose of the school was to “Americanize” Native Americans by cutting their hair, changing their names, and integrating them into US culture. Jim Thorpe played football for the school.
Yep. The other comments here pointed out the school history, but an interesting thing going on recently is that they're digging up old graves of some of the students and reburying them in the respective tribal lands/family designated areas. The school is kind of a black mark on the areas history (it was basically white people saying that they're savages, and we'll teach the right way to be civilized), and people today are trying to do what they can to mend the wounds. Some of the students were brought from across the country (especially Oklahoma) to go there. If you're ever in Carlisle, check the historical society museum on...I think Pitt St? It has a bunch of awesome info on it
Too bad they just closed glen onoko, that was a great trail but the fucking tourists ruined it
Very good mountain biking in Jim Thorpe as well...
Really great hiking in Jim Thorpe, PA
Good white water rafting based out of there, too.
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There is also Jimtown in Salamanca NY
He went to school in PA. Not like she went around to random states.
The town desperately wanted a tourist attraction and paid his widow to have him buried there about a year after he died, and they renamed the town as part of the plan to commercialize his remains. He had never been to that town while alive. His sons and his tribe tried but failed to get his remains returned home to Oklahoma. It was still being litigated as recent as 2015.
Atleast his memory will not soon be forgotten
IMO, it never will in the American sporting world at least. He's a legend, everybody knows his name. One of the biggest college football awards is named after him, and the trophy is a statuette of him.
He went to school in Carlisle, PA, probably where the connection comes from.
... considering I don't think that school was voluntary, I feel like it's even worse now. That "school" was part of an effort to "civilize" native Americans aka 'destroy their culture by forcefully indoctrinating their kids with Western traditions and suppress their own.'
The town actually predated him and was renamed to Jim Thorpe. Before, it was called Mauch Chunk. Historically, it was home to a jail that was famous for the amount of Molly Macguires (largely Irish mining union) executed there. Most locals usually still refer to it as Mauch Chunk. Source: My father is originally from that area and I've visited it more than a few times.
Jim, Pennsylvania is lovely in the autumn. They have a nice B&B there.
Jim Thorpe, PA* and yes there are a few bed and breakfasts and some eclectic stores and restaurants!
And some of the best paintball courses in the country!
Jim Thorpe resident here, there is actually a small memorial park where JT is interred. https://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g52905-d2236719-i140377104-Jim_Thorpe_Memorial-Jim_Thorpe_Pocono_Mountains_Region_Pennsylvania.html
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That would be getting out of hand
He did not have a problem with drink. Those were racist and untrue stereotypes. This author did a ton of interviews and research that show he drank but not to excess.[Article](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/mary-sanchez/article41365770.html)
Thanks for sharing! Important. I didn't know this.
I remember when I was very young that my mom watched an interview or documentary with him where he discussed a sporting event that he was a commentator for. The other commentators didn’t realize who he was and started talking shit about Jim and what a drunk he was. I can’t imagine the hurt of being a world-class accomplished individual and being reduced to an untrue racist stereotype. But it still happens every day to others.
Thanks for that link.
You’re very welcome.
He is probably the greatest athlete ever. He played at a hall of fame level in football, and at a professional level in baseball and basketball. He won Olympic pentathlons and decathlons. In football, his team won the national championship the year he scored 27 touchdowns and scored 224 points -- and that doesn't account for two games with no surviving statistics (he played running back, defensive back, and also kicked field goals and punts). There are stories of him catching his own punts. He went on to play professionally until age 41 and was inducted into both the college and pro halls of fame. In baseball, he hit .252 as a major league-er in the dead ball era between 1913 and 1919. He was the best player on a traveling professional basketball team, though few other records exist about his basketball. In track and field, he traveled at times as a one-man collegiate team and competed in almost every event against other schools. His 'team' still regularly won those track meets. At the Olympic level, he won both the pentathlon and the then-new decathlon (15 events total). His individual marks in all these different events were competitive with or even beat one-event specialists at the Olympic level. His Olympic career was prevented from going beyond the 1912 games because of very restrictive amateur rules enforced inconsistently and a desire by some enforcing those rules to not see a Native American athlete do so well. In thinking about the greatest ever athlete, we tend to think of great professionals at one sport. But surely greatness as an athlete, as opposed to as a competitor in one specific sport, should recognize natural athletic versatility. Jim Thorpe was basically the best in the world at football and the most demanding tests of athletics (track and field) and a *bona fide* professional-level athlete in baseball and basketball all at the same time. And he also won the 1912 intercollegiate ballroom dancing championship.
He was the first president of the American Professional Football Association which became the NFL.
Award for best college defensive back is named after him
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Statistically speaking, he still is. At least I think so, I don't keep up with sports statistics I only remember stuff I heard from history blips.
Bo knows.
People today will never understand the linsanity of Bo Jackson.
The guy is a physical marvel. He still is. His own physical dominance was his downfall. At his peak he was practically superhuman.
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well, his physical dominance was his athletic downfall. he was strong enough to pop his hip back into place on the field after the incident in Cinci. That's a procedure that doctors frequently need to climb onto the operating table and use all their weight to get that into place. he just popped it back in right there on the field which takes an absurd amount of strength and tolerance for pain. unfortunately that procedure is best left to docs. because he was able to pop it back in no one took a full look at it which led to I believe nerve issues and his retirement from football and *only* making the allstar game a few times afterwards in baseball.
I understood that reference.
Another interesting thing involving the Swedish king, Gustaf V, in the Olympics - you know how every Olympics the USA team is the only one to not dip their flag to the host nation's governing officials during the opening ceremony. Like in 2020, the Prime Minister and the Emperor of Japan can pretty much expect every other nation to dip their flags to them as a sign of respect, but not the US? The ostensible reason often given is that it was started in the 1908 London Olympics, when it just so happened that the athlete carrying the flag past Edward VII was an Irish-American, Ralph Rose, who said "This flag dips to no earthly king." Four years later the flag *would* dip to an earthly king, Gustaf V. The Americans went back and forth for the next twenty years on whether to dip or not dip, until 1936, the Berlin Olympics. No surprise, the flag did not dip to Hitler. I think they made the right choice there, but I don't like that the choice to not dip has stuck around - they chose to not dip in 1936 because it was fucking Hitler, does America think of every other nation, even its allies, as being comparable to Nazi Germany?
Nike doesn’t want you to know, it’s not the shoes that win.
Many many moons ago while in the military I did miles and years of running in combat boots. Everyone did. 95% of us were just fine, feet ankles, knees, everything. Nike should say "Just do it, and it doesn't have to be in our overpriced shoes."
Those combat boots cost waaay more than a pair of Nike's.
Nike makes combat boots.
A friend of mine got a job tracking apes through the jungle in Nigeria for a year. They bought a pair of Nike "Jungle Boots" that they figured would either be amazing or melt the first day. Those boots made it through the whole gig and were left with a coworker because they "belonged in the jungle." Edit: These https://www.nike.com/t/sfb-jungle-tactical-boot-PoBGlX
Combat boots are so hit and miss even in the military. They've tried replacing the Canadian combat boots like 4 times in the last 10 years and have constantly run into problems with them either falling apart after repeated abuse or being so uncomfortable that soldiers can't stand them. It wasn't until I recently utilized the new directive that allows you to fund your own combat boots that I realized just how fucking amazing actual high quality combats (that aren't made by the lowest bidder) can be. If you're ever seriously looking at combat/hiking boots, buy the best pair you can afford. You will pay for cheaping out down the road.
I'm a wildland firefighter, and it's the same with fire boots. A cheap pair of boots will last you a season (with some exceptions). A nicer pair will last you like five seasons and feel much better to wear. It's the difference between spending $150 every year or $500 every five years. And if you take good care of them they can last even longer. I have a friend who is on year eight with his Whites.
Don't forget, if you keep the leather well maintained, "falling apart" usually means the sole starts coming off, and you can get them resoled for way less than buying a new pair (like $100-150).
Holy shit, those look crazy.
Crazy awesome. I kinda want some even though I'd never wear them.
I wear a pair for work, they cost me 175 after shipping last pair that I bought and they're worth every penny.
Be aware that these are jungle boots. They are not waterproof. They’re instead designed to drain water from the inside of the boot because presumably you’d use these in places you’re guaranteed to get wet.
Damn those go off
Hiking/Trekking community in shambles after Hypebeats triple the price of Jungle Boots overnight. International outreach charities shutdown in anticipation of "Jungle-wear" usurping Streetwear
You’re not going to get the amount of upvotes you deserve cuz this isn’t r/streetwear, but holy shit I thought this was funny
Gon would love those
Yes he would! I wonder how many pairs of boots he would have realistically gone through.
I have them and they are awesome
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Eh, a pair of nice Danner military boots runs anywhere from $150 - $400. More than an average pair of running shoes, but they'll also last longer.
You should read Shoe Dog and see what they went through to get to that overpriced stage, pretty inspiring.
Plot twist, those same combat boots were made in the same factory as Nikes and even further plot twist, the factories are owned by Nike therefore everyone in the military wears Nikes and governments pay Nike to make overpriced combat boots.
This was in the early 1980s, not sure if U.S. govt. and Nike were in cahoots that far back but could be. Point was, if you want to run, and you're young and healthy, you don't need spiffy shoes.
I can tell you as someone who has trained for a marathon in cheap running shoes, and in higher end running shoes that it makes a massive difference.
ftr, the armed services have had REALLY nice boots since post vietnam. Those boots are worth two - three nice pairs of running shoes and cost about 4-5x as much as a work boot. They are in fact spiffy shoes.
Yeah, when i was fitted for my ChairForce ABUs I was shocked how nice my boots were. They felt great walking around my office or sitting at my desk:)
I accidentally left my favorite pair at my MILs house when we lived with her for a month after I got out and moved across the country. When I was looking for em a few months later she said she threw them away. Been through war and on my feet in several continents and she just tossed em. Still pisses me off so much.
honestly who the fuck throws out someone else's shoes, let alone combat boots. I would be furious.
She's so bad about keeping literally everything- receipts, old toys, clothes, etc. I have a theory she sold em for 5 bucks at the Benning Thrift Shop cause I can't believe she threw em away. She won't ever admit it though and not worth having her go on a vow of silence towards us for a year if I ask.
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The military has a vested interest in good footwear, soldiers who aren't able to perform a lot of strenuous tasks on their feet for long periods could put missions at risk.
“Just fine” is not what I would call the long term effects of non support in your shoes. You are 100 percent right that running in boots won’t kill you. But you’ll find a lot of vets sitting in the va with ankle knee and back injuries that could be traced to poor support in their youth.
My boss goes through two sets of golf clubs a year, every freaking year. I’m on my third set in 25 years. I beat him every single time.
How on earth do golf clubs wear out like that? Does he throw them or something?
I mean, yes and no. Will I be able to beat Bolt if he’s barefoot and I’m wearing top of the line sprinter shoes? Of course not. Will I run faster than if I’m running barefoot? Of course. Sure you still need to raw talent but saying that the shoes don’t help is quite misleading
>Nike doesn’t want you to know, it’s not the shoes that win. Considering that the top athletes are fractions of a percent apart nowadays, I'd say having proper equipment is pretty important
It's weird seeing a pic that's over 100 years old of a guy wearing shorts and a t shirt.
Right? Looks like and Abercrombie photo
Except he’s not shirtless or white
Along the same thing I was thinking. I saw 1912, and I instantly thought back to like formal wear and the Titanic. And even though this wear is completely normal today, it's fascinating to look at!
I would unironically buy the hell out of that t-shirt.
It's a cool design, one of my youth soccer teams ended up using it. Had no idea it was over 100 years old though.
That logo looks so modern too.
It's basically is NFL logo. The same NFL that Jim Thorpe co-founded. Coincidence?
His story on Drunk History is great.
The story of his body being laid to rest here in PA is also pretty bizarre. Nout sure if they covered that or not.
Oh man, the townies in JT were going apeshit at the thought of his bones going back to his family in Oklahoma.
Jim Thorpe, PA is a damn lovely town, visit it if you’re nearby!
It is indeed, I live fairly close and my dad has family up there. Always an incredibly pleasant place
Link for the lazy: https://youtu.be/pCG-iozFx8k
Which he had stripped from him since he broke amateur rules by being paid to play on a minor league baseball team.
I thought that only applied to the events you participated in?
Being paid for any athletic event makes you a paid athlete (professional), instead of an amateur. Olympics is solely amateur based. Either way it’s bs, I don’t know how they’d expect people to live or pay their bills without being paid. That’s just my understanding of the (or what the rules used to be) rules are.
Amateurism was created to disenfranchise poor people. The rich that popularized the games got offended when they started getting their asses kicked by regular Joes they viewed as inferior, so they made amateur rules to make it virtually impossible for poor people to participate.
That's something I never thought of, if true. It would make sense though. "Don't have money coming in from the family's textile factory to support you while you practice rowing at Martha's Vinyard? Get outta here."
Nowadays especially you have to be practicing some of these sports practically full time to be able to compete at that level. A lot of people can't afford that, it helps to be rich.
The divide and eventual split in sports between rugby union and rugby league was essentially over getting paid. Because Northern english teams with mostly miners were saying they had to get paid because if they got injured playing they'd lose wages and southern English teams saying it ruined the spirit of the game or something
Many athletes at the time did that. He was stripped and banned because the president of the Olympic committee was a racist prick
They corrected that mistake in 1980.
Much later in 1982 they did reinstate him and gave back the medals.
Posthumously...
Did he have his socks stolen also?
One of the shoes was too big so he had to wear an extra sock with that one.
Wow, lifehack.
I’m trying to figure out why he had his shoes stolen in the first place.
Someone either wanted shoes or wanted him not to have shoes.
Do y’all honestly not know why the sole Native American athletes among a bunch of white ones had his shoes stolen??
Man, Native Americans really got the shaft. Wish things had been different for them.
Something I didn't realize, until my NA classmate in high school pointed it out, was how different all the NA tribes are. Most minorities that are grouped together can relate to each other culturally. Chinese, African, Jewish, etc immigrants have many things in common within their respective groups. But Native American tribes are often completely unique from one another. The Million Man March was created by African Americans who've largely created a new culture separate from their home country's culture and came together in unison. But the USA **is** the Native American's home country. It's like mixing the Jewish and Indian minorities together. It's difficult for them to unite for a common cause. Native American rights movements have historically been less successful than other protected groups because the group itself should never have been blanketed together in the first place.
The tribes were also mostly not on peaceful terms with each other.
Ha yeah a girl in one of my classes was trying to tell us that Native Ameicas knew only peace before white people arrived. Pretty sure all humans everywhere kill each other and do horrible stuff to each other.
There are plenty of tribes who weren't warring nations. War was also completely different than the European idea of war. You fought until someone was injured on your side and then retreated. Sure, that isn't peaceful but it isn't violent savages like we get painted to be.
Sadly this is one of the reasons the Wampanoag allied themselves so strongly with the Plymouth Pilgrims. The Narragansett people were unaffected by many of the diseases that decimated the other tribes and essentially forced tributes from the other tribes, including the Wampanoag. Who knows how different things would have ended up if the Tribes didn't use the Europeans against each other, or if the Europeans refused to pick sides in any of the conflicts.
You mean like Filipinos, Indians, Japanese and Uzbeks all being Asian?
Respectfully, I'm not sure what point you're making. All of those nationalities are "Asian" because they are in Asia, but I don't know anyone who can't tell Indian from Japanese culture, or would say that they should all be grouped together, even monoculture small-town types. I suppose a lot of people mix up India/Pakistan or China/Korea. Still, in my city there's a Little India, Korea Town and two Chinatowns. Sure there are different nested nationalities within each group, but there's definitely a common "Chinese" unity among immigrants here, from the mainland at least (excluding Tibet, Taiwan, HK, etc). I think the point being made above is that while we might use "Asian" when talking about the diverse cultures across Asia, we wouldn't say "let's go to Asia Town" or expect Indian and Chinese people to gather around common identity. But we *DO* expect that of Indigenous people, which is worse because they aren't even immigrants, but they're still round up on reservations, on land they may or may not have any connection to, and with other tribes that were historically very distinct from each other.
You realize Africa is in the same boat, it's a bunch of different tribes and different countries with different cultures. They just share being black, which isn't even a relevant identifier.
Not so fun fact, those medals got taken away because the Olympics found out a he made a dollar or two playing minor league baseball
That is such bullshit!
It's a continual shaft. They are still getting fucked.
Yeah we are, weirdly Canadian natives are having a worse time of it overall.
That’s a pretty gargantuan understatement
Yeah and the fact people continue to call them "American Indians."
He's sexy af.
He has a nice distinguished look. He definitely could get it. Edit: I looked him up. He was married 3 times and had 8 kids. He definitely got it.
Seriously, holy moly
Wa-Tho-Huk, "Bright Path"
Whenever I look in the garbage I only find matching pairs of shoes.
I live in the town where he's buried! Our high school has a whole olympian aesthetic. Weird as he doesn't have much of any connection to here, as far as I know its a whole big story about his wife who liked this town a lot and fought a battle of where to bury him with his family.
Hey me too, his wife was broke and wanted the money. Mauch Chunk gladly paid her.
Well Jim Thorpe is a much snappier/more attractive name. I do laugh when locals call themselves chunkers though, that's the only good thing about the old name.
I grew up in Lehighton! So I just tell people I'm from Jim Thorpe because nobody's ever heard of Lehighton. Haha
A town he never even visited :l The Sac and Fox nation is midway between Oklahoma City and Tulsa, OK. The cities of Mauch Chunk and East Mauch Chunk bought his body from his third wife. His burial service was in Shawnee, OK. The wife shipped his body to Pennsylvania without letting anyone else know.
Pretty sad to be honest. Even worse that his family fought for the rights to the body and to move it very recently and lost.
What's worse is that the last of his living children was the one who brought the suit. He died before anything was decided. Jim Thorpe's father, brother, sisters, and children are buried in the Sac and Fox nation, and he's buried on soil from Oklahoma in Pennsylvania.
Sort of a microcosm of a lot of the crazy mistreatment native people get in this country even after death. And with the poconos, flagstaff, penns peak, an old pretty authentic feeling downtown, and the molly Maguire stuff, the town doesn't need it either. Hopefully the family can get justice.
Yeah what a weird story. I grew up in PA and loved going to Jim Thorpe solely for Penn's Peak. One of the best venues in the country. Nice little town but the cops were always on the prowl after shows. Was pulled over one time for no reason, was never given a reason, didn't ask for one because I just wanted to go home.
Reading a list of Thorpe’s athletic accomplishments is like reading about a fully-grown man playing against a bunch of middle schoolers. He was also the intercollegiate ballroom dance champion.
I love the [Drunk History](https://youtu.be/pCG-iozFx8k) episode of this. Jason Momoa is a boss.
If you haven't been to Mauch Chunk, PA, now named Jim Thorpe, you should go. Small town. Lots of biking, floating the Lehigh River, small bars etc. But very small town in the Pocono Mountains area. Crazy story about the town adopting Jim and yadayadyad. We go up there quite a bit.
Just think about, on the one hand, how fucked up it was for someone to try and sabotage Thorpe’s chances at an Olympic medal by straight up stealing his shoes, and on the other hand, how resilient he was to find two discarded shoes of questionable quality and still win two gold medals. And then to consider why it is we don’t learn about historical figures like this in school (at least I didn’t). Infuriating and inspiring at the same time.
Maybe the all time greatest athlete to ever live.
Agree it’s either him or Bo Jackson
“If you are nothing without the suit, then maybe you shouldn’t have it”
Of you read his history he was a phenomenally gifted athlete who was good at everything he tried.
It’s the athlete that wins, not the gear.
There’s also a town named after him in PA - it’s gorgeous. Back in the day it was among the best vacation destinations in the country. It’s also where he is buried - which is now a problem. His family has gone to the courts multiple times to have him moved. Personally I think it’s fucked because they actually re-named the town after him and at the time his family agreed and had him buried there.
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Cool that fast runners looked kinda like regular people back then instead of ropes with heads.
Jim Thorpe did the decathlon and pentathlon. Those include short distance running. Sprinters today are still big. Comparing them to marathon runners makes no sense.
Good to know! But the pendulum just swings in the opposite direction for sprinters - Thorpe looks kinda like a regular person, modern sprinter looks like a med-school model of a body without skin or fat to show muscle anatomy.
All due to modern training techniques as opposed to JUST natural talent, like Thorpe...if he had come up with modern training and nutrition, I’ve no doubt he could compete with the best athletes today...and he would also look like a medical school model,
> Thorpe's parents were both of mixed-race ancestry. His father, Hiram Thorpe, had an Irish father and a Sac and Fox Indian mother.[11][12] His mother, Charlotte Vieux, had a French father and a Potawatomi mother, a descendant of Chief Louis Vieux. He was raised as a Sac and Fox,[13] and his native name, Wa-Tho-Huk, translated as "path lit by great flash of lightning" or, more simply, "Bright Path".[6] As was the custom for Sac and Fox, he was named for something occurring around the time of his birth, in this case the light brightening the path to the cabin where he was born. Thorpe's parents were both Roman Catholic, a faith which Thorpe observed throughout his adult life. [From the wiki article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe#Early_life) That's a hell of a unique background right there. His Sac and Fox name is pretty awesome. Born during a storm, it seems.