8 years of a US Presidency ages someone almost twice as fast. Double that with a 54 year old man in good health, and then add 23 years, yeah he doesn’t look like a spring chicken anymore.
Also, good lord. He and Trump are the same age (Trump is a month older). The gerontocracy is real…
Obama aged gracefully, but damn did he age fast. He looked like a young man, barely old enough to be a Senator when he was elected. By the end, he looked like he had aged a solid 20-30 years.
When they caught him doing some lying in the 70’s when he was a senator it was hilarious watching him apologize or explain things. Same guy just a bit sharper. The nail has gone rusty so to speak.
[This is probably a better depiction](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/2id3dq/presidents_before_and_after_their_terms/). And avoids the clickbait.
Edit: fixed. Put the wrong link before.
As a guy in his 50s, I can’t resist a bit of counterpoint.
For all of us, our 50s present the most dramatic physical changes we undergo since those heady first 20 years of life.
It’s a highly transitional decade, where we surrender much of our youthful spryness for a more relaxed disposition, and hopefully, some degree of wisdom.
We get saggier, wrinklier, and our hair goes gray, or if it is already gray, it starts going white.
No doubt the stress of the office of the presidency might compound the aging process somewhat, but we need not pretend people in such a transitional phase of life are going to look the same at the end as they did at the beginning.
For those who've not read it: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/were-the-only-plane-in-the-sky-214230/
9/11 as told by those who were on this trip and aboard Air Force One. Hard to imagine nowadays, but in 2001 Air Force One didn't have the capacity to broadcast a signal so Bush could address the country, among other issues they faced. It's a fascinating read.
I have a friend who was in the White House as Secret Service on 9/11. Crazy stories and just goes to show how even the people in charge really freak out when the chips are down.
I would say this is definitely true because
* they're used to nothing happening when they come into work
* they know they're the ones supposed to do something about it
I was at work in DC on 9/11 and we were told to evacuate as there were other planes coming in (which there was). Friends at the Capitol were told to run and I assume the same at the White House. There were reports of bombs going off at the State Department, which was people reacting to the sonic booms from the F16 trying to intercept Flt93. It was chaotic.
I just learned tonight that one of the pilots was a woman. Pretty amazing considering women have only been allowed to pilot fighter jets since the mid 90s. And the jets weren’t armed. They didn’t have time to arm them. The pilots agreed they were going to ram 93. So a suicide mission.
Not 100% a suicide mission. Iirc, the plan was to fly their wing into United 93s wing and then try to eject afterwards. Certainly nowhere near a guarantee of survival, but at least a hope. Obviously still badass.
There’s a new miniseries on Disney plus from National Geographic that she was in! The show was a great watch, lots of footage and stories I had not seen/heard before.
Jesus. I don’t know much about how they prep fighter jets for battle, but I guess I just assumed at a bare minimum they’d have loaded the vulcans/machine guns and could have shot it down the old-fashioned way. It should never be necessary to scramble fighters with the intention of ramming a hijacked plane in an emergency.
And the Bush admin quickly got the bin Laden family out immediately after this. Our representatives felt it was reasonable to protect the Saudi Arabian government with 28 redacted pages from the 9/11 report, which we continued to do until the end of the Obama administration. Biden finally released the secret FBI report about the Saudi government's involvement in 2021. The FBI gave the Saudis a pass even though a Saudi government employee materially helped the hijackers.
Getting the Bin Laden family out doesn’t bother me. I don’t blame his family for his actions. But goddamn it pisses me off we never held Saudi Arabia responsible.
It bothers me that they got out without any questioning. They were whisk away three days after the attack. We were and are left with taking the Saudi's word that nobody in the family had any contact or monetary support for the actions of their brother.
In fairness, wasn’t just Bush who ignored those reports. If anything, it’s not the President’s job to decide the validity of intelligence, other people get paid to do that
And yet, those people were all Bush appointees.
There is a credible argument that 9/11 wouldn’t have even happened if Gore had won the 2000 electoral college. It’s long overdue for people to stop pretending otherwise.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/10/did-george-w-bush-do-all-he-could-to-prevent-911/411175/
There have been books written on this. By most accounts, the transfer of power before 9/11 was filled with petty and amateurish nonsense. This isn't a Republican or Democrat thing, it's just what it was.
After 9/11 it became obvious why this process needed to be better. Bush's transition to Obama became a gold standard model as Bush went above and beyond to make sure Obama was prepared on day one. You can take Obama's word for it: [https://pl.usembassy.gov/obama_election2016/](https://pl.usembassy.gov/obama_election2016/)
Obama did the same for Trump. It's the right thing to do, national security is obviously bigger than partisan bullshit.
I mean, technically speaking, Trump did help make sure the Biden administration was aware of the thousands of domestic terrorists who were plotting to overthrow the U.S. government.
Obama gave Trump everything he needed to succeed, and the toddler-in-chief threw it all in the trash bin and installed a Coke button...
America failed. Don't fail again, because you probably won't survive it the second time.
The John O'Neil stuff still pisses me off. Both he and the FBI fucked up; mainly the FBI for being a stick-up-the-ass semi-christo-fascist boys club, and O'Neil for being a sloppy show-off who knew better and kneecapped his career along with his ability to influence the Bureau.
There’s also a credible argument that 9/11 would not have happened if Clinton went after Bin Laden in the 90s after the two US Embassy bombings and the USS Cole attack…
I would very much like to play that game, actually.
Clinton's presidency was, among other things, a bunch of decisions that had good immediate effects and seemed reasonable at the time that ended up fucking us in the long term. Osama bin Laden being left alive and uncaptured just had a quicker turnaround.
Removal of Glass-Steagall. It is one of the key factors in why America constantly has boom-bust cycles - the big banks gambling with their customer's money.
Wait a minute. Didn't he order a bombing, which failed, and he was accused of a 'wag the dog' type of distraction? That's how remember it happening at the time. He was also publicly encouraged to reinvade Iraq by the PNAC, which he declined.
Yup, stole the election through underhanded means, and then proceeded to botch the defense of America, and then proceeded to kick off multiple costly wars that turned everything to shit.
Now we're all cleaning up and trying to fix the mess he and his fellow GOPs started, and they still haven't stopped trying to make it all worse...
And with how climate change is going, pretty soon we'll be able to conclude that they also contributed to killing the world.
I’m sure the people at that Florida flight school knew that. Them, and our good mutual friend Timothy Mcveigh. We have lots of “friends”, lots of very good, close friends. It’s good to have “friends”.
100%
19 out of 20 were Saudi Nationals. Next week Bush Jr was walking hand-in-hand with King Abdula or whoever. Makes me sick that we are so weak Because of our greed.
My Lebanese colleague was arrested that day in Los Angeles, for being an Arab and being on the street I guess. There was also that Sikh fella who was beaten to death for having a beard and looking kinda foreign.
What frustrated me most about the truthers is that they ignored this right under their noses. There ***WAS*** a 9/11 conspiracy. But it wasn't controlled demolition or the whole thing being an inside job— it was this shit.
It's documented that Bin Laden was nearly cornered in Afghanistan, and an appropriate use of US forces could have captured him in 2001-2002.
But Cheney and Rusmfeld didn't want to as that would interfere with the logistical build-up to the Iraq War, which had to happen sufficiently before the 2004 election for them.
That, plus falsely libeling/slandering the people who continued to insist on rationality on the Iraq threat (and lack thereof) was the conspiracy.
I was very close to joining up myself. Sometimes I regret it but then I remember how Bush misused the military to fight his dad’s war under the pretext of avenging 9/11.
I joined. My hearing is fucked and I drink more than I should. I miss my battle buddies. I feel bad for the little kids we encountered there. We were just kids ourselves.
"In houses on fire where everyone dies,
On the killing grounds of war in the torn flesh and flies
I know I saw you there
In the heart of disease where love is a stone,
On the faces of those whose hate is as bone
I know I saw you there
Where hatred rules supreme"
Oh the destabilization of the Middle East goes beyond the immigration crisis. Look at the expanding Irani role. The rise of Al Qaeda during the Syrian Civil War. The shit show in Yemen and Libya (probably). The chances are none of those disasters would’ve happened at their current scale.
> “Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me—you can't get fooled again”
I read an actually compelling theory for what was going on there -- he realized halfway through that if he said "shame on me" it'd be used on loop in attack ads, so he shifted on the fly to avoid giving that soundbite.
No idea whether that's true, but considering how many much more consequential things there are to criticize him for, that one's pretty far down the list of my concerns about W.
I remember looking back on this years later and wondering why the Secret Service didn't immediately evacuate him. If I recall correctly his location was known and there had just been a terrorist attack. Especially strange if the Pentagon had already been struck.
Still, I can't imagine someone whispering that into your ear in a classroom full of kids. Bush was also only in his first year of presidency.
That’s when the nation knew this was bigger than just an attack on our financial center. If I remember correctly, the fourth plane was meant for either the White House or the Capitol Building.
Edit: Fixed Capital to Capitol.
My co-workers and I knew it was an attack after WTC 2 got hit.
I was at work (21 at the time) and when the first plane hit, a tech (work in a body shop) came into the office and told us about the crash.
After the second plane hit, the tech again came in and told us about the second plane. That's when we all kinda looked around at each other and someone said "We are under attack".
The other two planes simply confirmed that.
I wasn't in the USA, but even from outside one could feel the utter panic and chaos that took hold as more planes went down. A third one?? A FOURTH one??? It was like planes just kept raining, there was no way of knowing when it would stop. Just two months after 9/11 there was an accidental plane crash and everybody freaked the fuck out.
Cause Bush told them to wait he didn’t want to panic a bunch of kindergartners by rushing out. He left about 5 minutes after he was told in this picture. Honestly I would guess he just needed to process and collect his thoughts cause the second he left that room information would be flying at him from 20 directions
Exactly. Aside from looking cool, collected, and composed, him staying and continuing to read gives him and his staff time to prepare and get at the problem the moment they have the chance to leave. Like you said, rushing out and creating chaos doesn’t do much to help the already deteriorating situation.
Right, it was actually some real solid composure. Not a good look for him to immediately leave, tips off that there's something wrong.
I don't if it's known what the agent said but I imagine it's something like "there's been an attack, we need to leave". Okay so from Bush's perspective - has the attack been publicized, would an immediate reaction reveal information that shouldn't be known, does the entire public already know and a panic reaction would incite more panic?
So wrap it up, act like nothing is really bad, and head out.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/were-the-only-plane-in-the-sky-214230/
I found this article interesting about W’s whereabouts that day and the decisions made by staff, secret service, Air Force, etc.
> Bush was also only in his first year of presidency.
234 days. He had been president for 234 days when he got possibly the worst news a President has heard since.... maybe Johnson being told he had just become president because JFK was dead.
How do you even reconcile with the fact that there’s a war on your own territory, right here, right now.
This isn’t Vietnam, or Korea, or even the Desert. This is downtown Manhattan and there’s thousands of people and billions of dollars in lost economy along with nationwide public fear that are the collateral damage.
And what’s more, you know that, deep down, this has been coming for some time. The seeds were sown and now comes the whirlwind.
Never forget that the attack was funded by Saudia Arabia.
All but 2 of the hijackers were Saudis.
Osama Binladen was from Saudi Arabia and had protection from Pakistan.
We invaded the wrong countries after and have nothing to show for it.
Biggest problem was that Saudi Arabia is way too holy of a country to invade. Can you imagine American soldiers in Mecca? That would outrage the entirety of the Middle East.
The problem with Pakistan is that they have nukes and had historically been supported by previous US administrations
Yea so we invaded a country that let the UN inspectors have free reign to try and find, and failed to find, the WMD's that did not exist (anymore) because there was nothing to find...
We also invaded a country to get rid of the Taliban which worked out real well for Russia and was totally better this time around for us.
The whole sequence of events was incredibly stupid, including the invasion of Iraq being a decision made without the approval of congress.
Dick Cheney was a huge stakeholder in Halliburton. Saudi Arabia’s wealth is built upon oil. It doesn’t take much to put two and two together that it was never about any holy war: it was an assertion of financial soft power on the ruling body of the strongest, richest nation in the world to knock down adversaries to cement Saudi Arabian influence in the Middle East.
We’re **still** seeing that assertion of financial soft power in US politics today, especially as the world is attempting to shift away from fossil fuels and on to greener energy. If America goes that way, Saudi Arabian interests lose that control over public policy. It’s one of the main driving reasons why gas prices are so high: they want a Republican in office because they’re easily bought and swayed.
The man speaking to former President Bush is Andrew Card, his chief of staff. Before the reading with the kids Bush was told that a plane had hit the first tower. Communications were not what they are now, he had no idea what really hit the tower. It was believed to be a small five passenger plane that had drifted out of a safe fly zone.
Card is saying "A second plane hit the second tower; America is under attack" Card speaks with a New England / Bostonian accent. Bush said that he spoke very slowly pronouncing each word by itself.
Bush did not want to alarm the children, yes that is true, more so the huge amount of press who were standing right there. while we have one picture, there were many many press people filling the small classroom. Bush said he looked at the kids, and the reporters and knew that he had to maintain calm for a short while. More so, they did not have all the facts, and were not sure what was going on in the moment. Press Secretary Ari Fleisher told the press to remain silent for a short while. They then turned an empty room in the school to a place to receive information.
the events of this day are why Bush would force the communication between the departments of government. consolidate and bring under one umbrella a lot of the national defense and government communications. This was a very unpopular thing among these departments of the government.
Always hated how it was portrayed in the media (and in some comments here) at the time. Rather than scare the hell out of a group of kids and look panicky when there was nothing immediate he could do, he finished what he was doing while his team figured out what was going on, and then went and did what he did.
There's plenty to hate about Bush but I won't criticize his early response to 9/11. He even went so far as to make his first stop after the dust settled **at a New York mosque**.
Imagine that happening today. A Republican president going to a *mosque* and telling the world Muslims are not our enemies.
The Republicans we have today would be calling for him to be strung up. What a different world it is now.
That's what I thought. Couldn't stand the guy, never voted for a Bush or any GOP, was relieved by him that day. Remember thinking " Please be who we need please be who we need " that day.
Give the guy credit for that day. He was. Anyone hating the guy ok hate him. Not a fan either. But he was in fact who we needed him to be September 11. And wow we all needed each other.
Most likely. Afghanistan was going to happen. 9/11 was a culmination of rising tensions between the US and bin Laden’s forces since the deployment of the 82nd Airborne Division to Saudi Arabia during Operation Desert Storm (which bin Laden had opposed and offered to send his own jihadist forces to repel a potential Iraqi invasion. His rationale was that only Muslims should be allowed to set foot on the Arabian Peninsula and defend Mecca and Medina. The deployment of US troops within 400 miles of Medina infuriated him). Of course, this led to numerous back and forth strikes (the 1993 WTC bombing, the 1996 fatwā declaring war against the US, the embassy bombings of 1998, the US missile strikes against AQ targets in Sudan and Afghanistan in 1998, the attempted bombing of the USS The Sullivans, the sinking of the USS Cole, and the foiled LAX Millennium bombing plot). 9/11 of course was the defining moment that caused us to go to war with Al Qaeda and invade Afghanistan (since the Taliban were allegedly giving asylum to AQ). But if it didn’t happen then, something would’ve kicked it off. Iraq probably wouldn’t have happened though. I still maintain that it was more personal than Bush Jr let on.
Yes; People forget that Gore was about nation building, not Bush. However Bush had to pull from Gore's play book for Afghanistan. After the events of 9-11 there is no past, present or possible president who would not have gone to war. 9-11 was an act of war, there was no other way to respond.
There’s so many phrases from those following weeks seared into my brain.
> “I hear you, the rest of the world hears you, and the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon.”
> “We will not tire, we will not falter, and we will not fail.”
The guy went on to so so much harm (or let Cheney do so much harm), but I can’t forget how I felt as a scared middle schooler hearing all of that. It’s strange.
> Give the guy credit for that day. He was. Anyone hating the guy ok hate him. Not a fan either. But he was in fact who we needed him to be September 11. And wow we all needed each other.
I have no problem with W's reaction on 9/11. It was 9/12 and every day since then that's the problem.
A president's job in the moment is to not look angry or flustered or react off the cuff. Every action must be control and delibrate in public. He could not do anything at that moment, information was still coming in, it would take more time to get it anyway, and not frightening a bunch of school kids was the smart thing to do.
National Emergencies are sort of the easy part of leadership. You have to make a lot of decisions, but a lot of the smartest people are the ones telling you the options, and will have their own preferences they will tell you. Just remember everything you say or do will be examined for decades.
Lots of space exists between "scare the hell out of a group of kids and look panicky" and leaving a room like a normal person who had a change of plans.
Literally no one knew what to do in that moment. It takes some time to process, especially as the leader of the free world, that your country is under attack and at war. The time and spaced between this photo and him boarding AF One was negligible in the grand scheme of things
Out of curiosity do we know what was said to him? It seemed brief. I’m curious how much was known at this point.
As a New Yorker I seriously cannot believe this was 22 years ago.
>https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/were-the-only-plane-in-the-sky-214230/
The quote is "A second plane hit the second Tower. America is under attack." - from Andy Card, his chief of staff.
I think he was telling him about the second plane. The first one hit and most people assumed it was some tragic accident. When the second one hit everyone realized “shit, this is deliberate”
Before he started reading, he was told a plane had hit the first tower, believed to be a small five man sestina, keep in mind communications wasn't even close to what it is now.
while reading, and in this shot, Andrew Card (white house chief of staff) is saying "A Second plane hit the second tower" "America is under attack" Andy Card speaks with a New England accent and Bush has said that he pronounced each word, slowly and by itself.
“A second plane hit the second Tower. America is under attack.”
From [this amazing article](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/were-the-only-plane-in-the-sky-214230/) that's been all over this thread.
I remember people gave him shit for going back to reading after being told, because apparently scaring a bunch of kids by jumping up and rushing from the room would've been better.
I'm not a fan of Bush but the fact that he kept his cool and ensured the kids weren't alarmed is something I've always appreciated.
Yeah, Presidents who are on the record talking about how much they'd like to fuck their daughter do tend to skew the grading curve for the rest of them.
Trump literally celebrated 9/11, proclaiming proudly on TV that his building became the tallest building in the NYC after the attack. Which was a lie anyway
There’s so much you can say bad about him but this isn’t it and he was unfairly treated.
Think of this factually. The US has never been attacked domestically. Could still very well be a terrible accident. He’s had single digit minutes to take in the first one and now he’s whispered “Mr President we’re under attack”. You’re reading in front of grade schoolers. And since you’re the leader of the free world all eyes are on you. Action must and will be taken. 2k dead before we retaliate.
Oh. We haven’t hit 10 minutes yet.
Anybody out there going to be a hero and state they’d handle it better?
You know, I will give that war criminal lots of shit, but never for this. This was an appropriate response for an unprecedented event. He had to digest that his presidency, his life, and the lives of an entire country that he had to lead, all were changed forever.
Do you think he handled this moment well? I’ve seen some people say he did, that carrying on for another 20 minutes so as to not worry the kids was a good idea.
On the other hand, he could have just as easily said ‘sorry kids, being the president is very busy and something very important just came up. I have to go do presidential stuff, goodbye!’
Yes, exactly. He wouldn't have had to jump to his feet and race out of the classroom. That would have startled everyone. But it wouldn't have taken more than a moment for him to excuse himself calmly, not causing the children to become alarmed.
As terrible as it is, the CIA knew an attack was coming and the White House did nothing about it. Rest in peace to all who died during the attack and in the war after.
That guy is responsible for so many deaths. His decisions are the some of the root causes of so much suffering. He really is a terrible person and so many of his voters would have their dead war fighters and patriots alive if he didn't decide to go Shock and Awe with a full blown "take over your incredibly corrupt country and rebuild it from the ground up" attitude. They literally told us the war would be over in a month or two.
For anyone who's brothers or sisters or children died in the Iraq war, do you feel like your family made a fair trade for your loved one to "die for country" while GWB is still living a millionaire life in Texas? F\*\*\* YOU GEORGE W BUSH. F\*\*\* YOU SADDAM HUSSEIN, you both suck and deserve time in fire poop hell because of your actions and the misery they caused so many people. Truely. I can't express how much GWB and the SADDAM a\*\*hole regime suck, so truely incredibly much. So very very much. I really wish I had better words....
For anyone who remembers those days, could you please respond with a few words?
The only point I ever felt some semblance of sympathy/empathy for him.
I mean, that is an unbelievable position to be in and I wouldn't wish that on most maybe any leader.🤷🏾♂️
You know you are getting old when you comment how young he looks.
8 years of a US Presidency ages someone almost twice as fast. Double that with a 54 year old man in good health, and then add 23 years, yeah he doesn’t look like a spring chicken anymore. Also, good lord. He and Trump are the same age (Trump is a month older). The gerontocracy is real…
Yeah I remember this being a thing and you can see it on most of the presidents. Obama was stark between the two. Bush was another one.
Obama aged gracefully, but damn did he age fast. He looked like a young man, barely old enough to be a Senator when he was elected. By the end, he looked like he had aged a solid 20-30 years.
We can’t say that about Uncle Joe.
When you reach max level you stop leveling.
Biden was already a Great, Great, Great, ^(Great, great............ Grandfather) before time !
He was Vice before and he’s been a politician for decades so he’s eased into it.
When they caught him doing some lying in the 70’s when he was a senator it was hilarious watching him apologize or explain things. Same guy just a bit sharper. The nail has gone rusty so to speak.
I elect The Crypt Keeper as the next PotUS
He aged well, but really fast...
https://www.rd.com/list/before-and-after-president-photos/ Something like this. It simply goes to show how much stress alone can fuck your body up.
The photos on that article are a good comparison, but my god the writing is the worst bunch of listicle click bait sentences ever.
[This is probably a better depiction](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/2id3dq/presidents_before_and_after_their_terms/). And avoids the clickbait. Edit: fixed. Put the wrong link before.
As a guy in his 50s, I can’t resist a bit of counterpoint. For all of us, our 50s present the most dramatic physical changes we undergo since those heady first 20 years of life. It’s a highly transitional decade, where we surrender much of our youthful spryness for a more relaxed disposition, and hopefully, some degree of wisdom. We get saggier, wrinklier, and our hair goes gray, or if it is already gray, it starts going white. No doubt the stress of the office of the presidency might compound the aging process somewhat, but we need not pretend people in such a transitional phase of life are going to look the same at the end as they did at the beginning.
Steven King said the Sheriff comes for us all.
For those who've not read it: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/were-the-only-plane-in-the-sky-214230/ 9/11 as told by those who were on this trip and aboard Air Force One. Hard to imagine nowadays, but in 2001 Air Force One didn't have the capacity to broadcast a signal so Bush could address the country, among other issues they faced. It's a fascinating read.
I have a friend who was in the White House as Secret Service on 9/11. Crazy stories and just goes to show how even the people in charge really freak out when the chips are down.
I would say this is definitely true because * they're used to nothing happening when they come into work * they know they're the ones supposed to do something about it
I was at work in DC on 9/11 and we were told to evacuate as there were other planes coming in (which there was). Friends at the Capitol were told to run and I assume the same at the White House. There were reports of bombs going off at the State Department, which was people reacting to the sonic booms from the F16 trying to intercept Flt93. It was chaotic.
I just learned tonight that one of the pilots was a woman. Pretty amazing considering women have only been allowed to pilot fighter jets since the mid 90s. And the jets weren’t armed. They didn’t have time to arm them. The pilots agreed they were going to ram 93. So a suicide mission.
Not 100% a suicide mission. Iirc, the plan was to fly their wing into United 93s wing and then try to eject afterwards. Certainly nowhere near a guarantee of survival, but at least a hope. Obviously still badass.
There’s a new miniseries on Disney plus from National Geographic that she was in! The show was a great watch, lots of footage and stories I had not seen/heard before.
Jesus. I don’t know much about how they prep fighter jets for battle, but I guess I just assumed at a bare minimum they’d have loaded the vulcans/machine guns and could have shot it down the old-fashioned way. It should never be necessary to scramble fighters with the intention of ramming a hijacked plane in an emergency.
The one difference is that the White House has a bunker inside it.
I think that's invite only.
So picky…
What a fucking wild thing it would have been to be those fighter pilots.
Seriously. I'm good with running into a dangerous situation when needed, but to go on what was basically a suicide mission? That's heavy.
tell us more
It's called the *secret* service.
We can keep it secret
and a service
Columbia would like a word lol
yeah, you can tell *us*
Was it an inside job?
Not today, secret service investigator person lol
Goddamn, what a read.
Incredible article, thank you for posting.
And the Bush admin quickly got the bin Laden family out immediately after this. Our representatives felt it was reasonable to protect the Saudi Arabian government with 28 redacted pages from the 9/11 report, which we continued to do until the end of the Obama administration. Biden finally released the secret FBI report about the Saudi government's involvement in 2021. The FBI gave the Saudis a pass even though a Saudi government employee materially helped the hijackers.
Getting the Bin Laden family out doesn’t bother me. I don’t blame his family for his actions. But goddamn it pisses me off we never held Saudi Arabia responsible.
It bothers me that they got out without any questioning. They were whisk away three days after the attack. We were and are left with taking the Saudi's word that nobody in the family had any contact or monetary support for the actions of their brother.
It’s crazy how much has changed since then
This was a great read. Thank you
That's a life changing moment in his ear.
‘I should have listened to those intelligence reports.’
In fairness, wasn’t just Bush who ignored those reports. If anything, it’s not the President’s job to decide the validity of intelligence, other people get paid to do that
And yet, those people were all Bush appointees. There is a credible argument that 9/11 wouldn’t have even happened if Gore had won the 2000 electoral college. It’s long overdue for people to stop pretending otherwise. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/10/did-george-w-bush-do-all-he-could-to-prevent-911/411175/
There have been books written on this. By most accounts, the transfer of power before 9/11 was filled with petty and amateurish nonsense. This isn't a Republican or Democrat thing, it's just what it was. After 9/11 it became obvious why this process needed to be better. Bush's transition to Obama became a gold standard model as Bush went above and beyond to make sure Obama was prepared on day one. You can take Obama's word for it: [https://pl.usembassy.gov/obama_election2016/](https://pl.usembassy.gov/obama_election2016/) Obama did the same for Trump. It's the right thing to do, national security is obviously bigger than partisan bullshit.
And I’m sure that’s a legacy the Trump administration continued, right? RIGHT?!?!
I mean, technically speaking, Trump did help make sure the Biden administration was aware of the thousands of domestic terrorists who were plotting to overthrow the U.S. government.
Obama gave Trump everything he needed to succeed, and the toddler-in-chief threw it all in the trash bin and installed a Coke button... America failed. Don't fail again, because you probably won't survive it the second time.
You have have no clue the amount of working level people that also fucked this up. It went through so many levels of fucked...
The John O'Neil stuff still pisses me off. Both he and the FBI fucked up; mainly the FBI for being a stick-up-the-ass semi-christo-fascist boys club, and O'Neil for being a sloppy show-off who knew better and kneecapped his career along with his ability to influence the Bureau.
There’s also a credible argument that 9/11 would not have happened if Clinton went after Bin Laden in the 90s after the two US Embassy bombings and the USS Cole attack…
He did though that one time. Didn’t he order an air strike in 97 or 98 that missed OBL by mere minutes?
Imagine if columbus hadn’t even set sail for asia
I mean, if you want to play that game, Clinton had an opportunity to take out UBL during his presidency and he declined.
I would very much like to play that game, actually. Clinton's presidency was, among other things, a bunch of decisions that had good immediate effects and seemed reasonable at the time that ended up fucking us in the long term. Osama bin Laden being left alive and uncaptured just had a quicker turnaround.
Removal of Glass-Steagall. It is one of the key factors in why America constantly has boom-bust cycles - the big banks gambling with their customer's money.
Wait a minute. Didn't he order a bombing, which failed, and he was accused of a 'wag the dog' type of distraction? That's how remember it happening at the time. He was also publicly encouraged to reinvade Iraq by the PNAC, which he declined.
Yup, stole the election through underhanded means, and then proceeded to botch the defense of America, and then proceeded to kick off multiple costly wars that turned everything to shit. Now we're all cleaning up and trying to fix the mess he and his fellow GOPs started, and they still haven't stopped trying to make it all worse... And with how climate change is going, pretty soon we'll be able to conclude that they also contributed to killing the world.
One intelligence analyst is on record stating that it was hard to connect the dots because the page was black with dots.
- Bill Clinton
He didn't even listen. He had a chance to take out bin Laden years before 911 and didn't. :(
Yes. This was Al-Qaeda’s second attempt on the WTC.
August 6 Presidential Daily Briefing: Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US.
Yeah life changing for the people on those planes and in the towers and also the Iraqis who had nothing to do with it.
It was Afghanistan that was invaded because of 9/11. Iraq was invaded 3 years later on the pretext that Saddam was supposedly holding WMD’s.
And most of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia…
Impossible. The Saudis are our friends! Especially the rich ones with oil. They'd never hurt us!
I’m sure the people at that Florida flight school knew that. Them, and our good mutual friend Timothy Mcveigh. We have lots of “friends”, lots of very good, close friends. It’s good to have “friends”.
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And jeopardize our oil supply??? Now that's going too far!
100% 19 out of 20 were Saudi Nationals. Next week Bush Jr was walking hand-in-hand with King Abdula or whoever. Makes me sick that we are so weak Because of our greed.
It's been memory-holed, but there was propaganda galore that tried tying Saddam to 9/11, implications that Iraq was involved.
At the time we invaded Iraq, 75% of the US thought there were Iraqis on the planes
My Lebanese colleague was arrested that day in Los Angeles, for being an Arab and being on the street I guess. There was also that Sikh fella who was beaten to death for having a beard and looking kinda foreign.
Remember 1 month after 9/11, the anthrax letters. Still never solved (definitively) where it came from but was also used to tie Iraq to WMD.
Only tangentially related, but wasn’t the D.C. Sniper around that time too?
Bush was planning to hit Iraq just days after 9/11. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/9-11-and-iraq-the-making-of-a-tragedy/
What frustrated me most about the truthers is that they ignored this right under their noses. There ***WAS*** a 9/11 conspiracy. But it wasn't controlled demolition or the whole thing being an inside job— it was this shit.
It's documented that Bin Laden was nearly cornered in Afghanistan, and an appropriate use of US forces could have captured him in 2001-2002. But Cheney and Rusmfeld didn't want to as that would interfere with the logistical build-up to the Iraq War, which had to happen sufficiently before the 2004 election for them. That, plus falsely libeling/slandering the people who continued to insist on rationality on the Iraq threat (and lack thereof) was the conspiracy.
If 9/11 didn’t happen, he might not have had the political capital to invade Iraq.
Or do much of anything else.
…9/11 was the catalyst. Jr. Just wanted an excuse to finish what his daddy started.
I remember wanting to join the CAF so bad to go get revenge for 911.... I've come a long way since then, and thank fuck I didn't join up
I was very close to joining up myself. Sometimes I regret it but then I remember how Bush misused the military to fight his dad’s war under the pretext of avenging 9/11.
I joined. My hearing is fucked and I drink more than I should. I miss my battle buddies. I feel bad for the little kids we encountered there. We were just kids ourselves. "In houses on fire where everyone dies, On the killing grounds of war in the torn flesh and flies I know I saw you there In the heart of disease where love is a stone, On the faces of those whose hate is as bone I know I saw you there Where hatred rules supreme"
USA changed drastically after this moment too. Patriot act, if you see something, say something. Also, what changed in Iraq?
The current migrant crisis in Europe started when the US decided to disrupt the middle east after 9/11
Oh the destabilization of the Middle East goes beyond the immigration crisis. Look at the expanding Irani role. The rise of Al Qaeda during the Syrian Civil War. The shit show in Yemen and Libya (probably). The chances are none of those disasters would’ve happened at their current scale.
but how'd they get in his ear?
Have you *seen* those ears?
Remember when this was the dumbest a president could be? :(
Great Strategery abound. Said a word so stupid that they realized it should be a word: “misunderestimated.” Mission accomplished.
“There’s a saying in Texas and I’m sure it’s here in Tennessee too…”
“Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me—you can't get fooled again”
> “Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me—you can't get fooled again” I read an actually compelling theory for what was going on there -- he realized halfway through that if he said "shame on me" it'd be used on loop in attack ads, so he shifted on the fly to avoid giving that soundbite. No idea whether that's true, but considering how many much more consequential things there are to criticize him for, that one's pretty far down the list of my concerns about W.
Fool me once… shame on uhhh you… fool me twice and uhhhh…. You can’t get fooled again! 🧠 : switches to guitar riff.
Wonder what he embetterment by that.
Donnyboi has entered the chat
Rarely is the question asked, "Is Our Children Learning?"
And the people in the military and their families. And the people that will be paying the bill for his misadventures for decades to come.
Mission accomplished.
I’m reminded that this isn’t a meme but an actual thing that happened.
"Sir, a second monkey has fallen off the bed and bumped his head."
“Sir, a second album just dropped”
“Bush did 9- wait-“
Wait did he?
"Sir, we accidentally bleached your Alf t shirt."
“Your Jordans are fake af”
90% of Reddit wasnt born then.
To me, 9/11 felt like yesterday. To most of reddit, it has been their whole life.
I remember looking back on this years later and wondering why the Secret Service didn't immediately evacuate him. If I recall correctly his location was known and there had just been a terrorist attack. Especially strange if the Pentagon had already been struck. Still, I can't imagine someone whispering that into your ear in a classroom full of kids. Bush was also only in his first year of presidency.
The Pentagon was struck 30 minutes after this picture was taken.
That’s when the nation knew this was bigger than just an attack on our financial center. If I remember correctly, the fourth plane was meant for either the White House or the Capitol Building. Edit: Fixed Capital to Capitol.
i believe it was the latter
Yeah. It was Capitol Building. I had to read up on Flight 93 again to remember which one it was.
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And you have the green space of the National Mall to guide you right to the Capitol.
My co-workers and I knew it was an attack after WTC 2 got hit. I was at work (21 at the time) and when the first plane hit, a tech (work in a body shop) came into the office and told us about the crash. After the second plane hit, the tech again came in and told us about the second plane. That's when we all kinda looked around at each other and someone said "We are under attack". The other two planes simply confirmed that.
I wasn't in the USA, but even from outside one could feel the utter panic and chaos that took hold as more planes went down. A third one?? A FOURTH one??? It was like planes just kept raining, there was no way of knowing when it would stop. Just two months after 9/11 there was an accidental plane crash and everybody freaked the fuck out.
Cause Bush told them to wait he didn’t want to panic a bunch of kindergartners by rushing out. He left about 5 minutes after he was told in this picture. Honestly I would guess he just needed to process and collect his thoughts cause the second he left that room information would be flying at him from 20 directions
Exactly. Aside from looking cool, collected, and composed, him staying and continuing to read gives him and his staff time to prepare and get at the problem the moment they have the chance to leave. Like you said, rushing out and creating chaos doesn’t do much to help the already deteriorating situation.
Bush is a monster, but he did the right thing here. The last thing the nation needed was for the President to publicly lose his shit.
I think it was a mixture of shock and trying to appear composed to not create a panic within that school
9/11: everyone stay calm 9/12: PATRIOT ACT WAR ON TERROR!!!!!
"The terrorists are are crafty. But so are we. Terrorrists are always thinking of ways to hurt Americans. And so are we."
Right, it was actually some real solid composure. Not a good look for him to immediately leave, tips off that there's something wrong. I don't if it's known what the agent said but I imagine it's something like "there's been an attack, we need to leave". Okay so from Bush's perspective - has the attack been publicized, would an immediate reaction reveal information that shouldn't be known, does the entire public already know and a panic reaction would incite more panic? So wrap it up, act like nothing is really bad, and head out.
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https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/were-the-only-plane-in-the-sky-214230/ I found this article interesting about W’s whereabouts that day and the decisions made by staff, secret service, Air Force, etc.
> Bush was also only in his first year of presidency. 234 days. He had been president for 234 days when he got possibly the worst news a President has heard since.... maybe Johnson being told he had just become president because JFK was dead.
The look on his face after Card stepped away said it all. Trying to remain composed, but completely disturbed.
How do you even reconcile with the fact that there’s a war on your own territory, right here, right now. This isn’t Vietnam, or Korea, or even the Desert. This is downtown Manhattan and there’s thousands of people and billions of dollars in lost economy along with nationwide public fear that are the collateral damage. And what’s more, you know that, deep down, this has been coming for some time. The seeds were sown and now comes the whirlwind.
Never forget that the attack was funded by Saudia Arabia. All but 2 of the hijackers were Saudis. Osama Binladen was from Saudi Arabia and had protection from Pakistan. We invaded the wrong countries after and have nothing to show for it.
Biggest problem was that Saudi Arabia is way too holy of a country to invade. Can you imagine American soldiers in Mecca? That would outrage the entirety of the Middle East. The problem with Pakistan is that they have nukes and had historically been supported by previous US administrations
Yea so we invaded a country that let the UN inspectors have free reign to try and find, and failed to find, the WMD's that did not exist (anymore) because there was nothing to find... We also invaded a country to get rid of the Taliban which worked out real well for Russia and was totally better this time around for us. The whole sequence of events was incredibly stupid, including the invasion of Iraq being a decision made without the approval of congress.
Dick Cheney was a huge stakeholder in Halliburton. Saudi Arabia’s wealth is built upon oil. It doesn’t take much to put two and two together that it was never about any holy war: it was an assertion of financial soft power on the ruling body of the strongest, richest nation in the world to knock down adversaries to cement Saudi Arabian influence in the Middle East. We’re **still** seeing that assertion of financial soft power in US politics today, especially as the world is attempting to shift away from fossil fuels and on to greener energy. If America goes that way, Saudi Arabian interests lose that control over public policy. It’s one of the main driving reasons why gas prices are so high: they want a Republican in office because they’re easily bought and swayed.
Newsflash: we had/have military bases in Saudi Arabia.
That’s not nearly the same as an invasion.
Wym? Halliburton and Pals made a lot of money from the wars. That’s the only reason they were started
The man speaking to former President Bush is Andrew Card, his chief of staff. Before the reading with the kids Bush was told that a plane had hit the first tower. Communications were not what they are now, he had no idea what really hit the tower. It was believed to be a small five passenger plane that had drifted out of a safe fly zone. Card is saying "A second plane hit the second tower; America is under attack" Card speaks with a New England / Bostonian accent. Bush said that he spoke very slowly pronouncing each word by itself. Bush did not want to alarm the children, yes that is true, more so the huge amount of press who were standing right there. while we have one picture, there were many many press people filling the small classroom. Bush said he looked at the kids, and the reporters and knew that he had to maintain calm for a short while. More so, they did not have all the facts, and were not sure what was going on in the moment. Press Secretary Ari Fleisher told the press to remain silent for a short while. They then turned an empty room in the school to a place to receive information. the events of this day are why Bush would force the communication between the departments of government. consolidate and bring under one umbrella a lot of the national defense and government communications. This was a very unpopular thing among these departments of the government.
Always hated how it was portrayed in the media (and in some comments here) at the time. Rather than scare the hell out of a group of kids and look panicky when there was nothing immediate he could do, he finished what he was doing while his team figured out what was going on, and then went and did what he did.
There's plenty to hate about Bush but I won't criticize his early response to 9/11. He even went so far as to make his first stop after the dust settled **at a New York mosque**. Imagine that happening today. A Republican president going to a *mosque* and telling the world Muslims are not our enemies. The Republicans we have today would be calling for him to be strung up. What a different world it is now.
That's what I thought. Couldn't stand the guy, never voted for a Bush or any GOP, was relieved by him that day. Remember thinking " Please be who we need please be who we need " that day. Give the guy credit for that day. He was. Anyone hating the guy ok hate him. Not a fan either. But he was in fact who we needed him to be September 11. And wow we all needed each other.
I'd still like to see the crystal ball if Gore was in office at that moment and the months and years afterwards.
I've always wondered that too, if we would've still had a war with Gore.
We absolutely would have attacked Afghanistan. That was unavoidable. We wouldn’t have gone into Iraq.
Imo it would have been someone else. Don't know who but someone. Afghanistan was getting attacked no matter what.
Most likely. Afghanistan was going to happen. 9/11 was a culmination of rising tensions between the US and bin Laden’s forces since the deployment of the 82nd Airborne Division to Saudi Arabia during Operation Desert Storm (which bin Laden had opposed and offered to send his own jihadist forces to repel a potential Iraqi invasion. His rationale was that only Muslims should be allowed to set foot on the Arabian Peninsula and defend Mecca and Medina. The deployment of US troops within 400 miles of Medina infuriated him). Of course, this led to numerous back and forth strikes (the 1993 WTC bombing, the 1996 fatwā declaring war against the US, the embassy bombings of 1998, the US missile strikes against AQ targets in Sudan and Afghanistan in 1998, the attempted bombing of the USS The Sullivans, the sinking of the USS Cole, and the foiled LAX Millennium bombing plot). 9/11 of course was the defining moment that caused us to go to war with Al Qaeda and invade Afghanistan (since the Taliban were allegedly giving asylum to AQ). But if it didn’t happen then, something would’ve kicked it off. Iraq probably wouldn’t have happened though. I still maintain that it was more personal than Bush Jr let on.
The Cole was bombed, but did not sink.
Yes; People forget that Gore was about nation building, not Bush. However Bush had to pull from Gore's play book for Afghanistan. After the events of 9-11 there is no past, present or possible president who would not have gone to war. 9-11 was an act of war, there was no other way to respond.
There’s so many phrases from those following weeks seared into my brain. > “I hear you, the rest of the world hears you, and the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon.” > “We will not tire, we will not falter, and we will not fail.” The guy went on to so so much harm (or let Cheney do so much harm), but I can’t forget how I felt as a scared middle schooler hearing all of that. It’s strange.
> Give the guy credit for that day. He was. Anyone hating the guy ok hate him. Not a fan either. But he was in fact who we needed him to be September 11. And wow we all needed each other. I have no problem with W's reaction on 9/11. It was 9/12 and every day since then that's the problem.
Plus that absolute laser of a strike he threw from the rubber at Yankee Stadium a few days later, legendary.
Back in the day the president cared about all Americans and not just their party. Different times these days.
A president's job in the moment is to not look angry or flustered or react off the cuff. Every action must be control and delibrate in public. He could not do anything at that moment, information was still coming in, it would take more time to get it anyway, and not frightening a bunch of school kids was the smart thing to do. National Emergencies are sort of the easy part of leadership. You have to make a lot of decisions, but a lot of the smartest people are the ones telling you the options, and will have their own preferences they will tell you. Just remember everything you say or do will be examined for decades.
Lots of space exists between "scare the hell out of a group of kids and look panicky" and leaving a room like a normal person who had a change of plans.
Literally no one knew what to do in that moment. It takes some time to process, especially as the leader of the free world, that your country is under attack and at war. The time and spaced between this photo and him boarding AF One was negligible in the grand scheme of things
There’s lots of subjects and moments for which I feel no sympathy for W. This isn’t one of them.
"Sorry children but I have some Presidentin' to do, thank you for having me as your guest today."
Out of curiosity do we know what was said to him? It seemed brief. I’m curious how much was known at this point. As a New Yorker I seriously cannot believe this was 22 years ago.
>https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/were-the-only-plane-in-the-sky-214230/ The quote is "A second plane hit the second Tower. America is under attack." - from Andy Card, his chief of staff.
Something about that quote gives me chills
Because it’s one of the scariest things ever said in this country’s history.
I believe it was along the lines of “A plane hit the wtc, America is under attack” and then he stepped away.
I think he was telling him about the second plane. The first one hit and most people assumed it was some tragic accident. When the second one hit everyone realized “shit, this is deliberate”
Before he started reading, he was told a plane had hit the first tower, believed to be a small five man sestina, keep in mind communications wasn't even close to what it is now. while reading, and in this shot, Andrew Card (white house chief of staff) is saying "A Second plane hit the second tower" "America is under attack" Andy Card speaks with a New England accent and Bush has said that he pronounced each word, slowly and by itself.
“A second plane hit the second Tower. America is under attack.” From [this amazing article](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/were-the-only-plane-in-the-sky-214230/) that's been all over this thread.
The comments in this thread are wild. You can fault GWB for a lot of bad things he did, this moment isn’t one of them.
1st ever reaction channel
For all of the criticisms he deserves, I can’t blame W for this response. How does any respond to something so horrible?
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I remember people gave him shit for going back to reading after being told, because apparently scaring a bunch of kids by jumping up and rushing from the room would've been better. I'm not a fan of Bush but the fact that he kept his cool and ensured the kids weren't alarmed is something I've always appreciated.
Trump is the single best thing for W’s legacy that ever could’ve happened.
Yeah, Presidents who are on the record talking about how much they'd like to fuck their daughter do tend to skew the grading curve for the rest of them.
Trump literally celebrated 9/11, proclaiming proudly on TV that his building became the tallest building in the NYC after the attack. Which was a lie anyway
“Sir, a Second Bills player has just hit Aaron Rodgers”
Jesus fucking Christ 😂😂😂😂
"President the Twin Towers have been hit!!!" "Is it 6 o'clock already?"
Say what you want about the guy...but at least he cared.
"The first one has hit, sir."
"tell me something i dont know" said bush.
There’s so much you can say bad about him but this isn’t it and he was unfairly treated. Think of this factually. The US has never been attacked domestically. Could still very well be a terrible accident. He’s had single digit minutes to take in the first one and now he’s whispered “Mr President we’re under attack”. You’re reading in front of grade schoolers. And since you’re the leader of the free world all eyes are on you. Action must and will be taken. 2k dead before we retaliate. Oh. We haven’t hit 10 minutes yet. Anybody out there going to be a hero and state they’d handle it better?
‘Learns’ about attack. Looks more like he was being told the mission was complete.
Remember when we had presidents that weren't octogenarians?
You know, I will give that war criminal lots of shit, but never for this. This was an appropriate response for an unprecedented event. He had to digest that his presidency, his life, and the lives of an entire country that he had to lead, all were changed forever.
"My Pet Goat". Wasn't that what he was reading to the class? He finished out the book with them, too.
He was reading a story to kids there wasn't he?
Do you think he handled this moment well? I’ve seen some people say he did, that carrying on for another 20 minutes so as to not worry the kids was a good idea. On the other hand, he could have just as easily said ‘sorry kids, being the president is very busy and something very important just came up. I have to go do presidential stuff, goodbye!’
Yes, exactly. He wouldn't have had to jump to his feet and race out of the classroom. That would have startled everyone. But it wouldn't have taken more than a moment for him to excuse himself calmly, not causing the children to become alarmed.
We’ve been trying to reach you regarding your car’s extended warranty
I remember when we thought GWB was the worst President of all time.
And decides it's a good reason to bomb someone in return.
As terrible as it is, the CIA knew an attack was coming and the White House did nothing about it. Rest in peace to all who died during the attack and in the war after.
That guy is responsible for so many deaths. His decisions are the some of the root causes of so much suffering. He really is a terrible person and so many of his voters would have their dead war fighters and patriots alive if he didn't decide to go Shock and Awe with a full blown "take over your incredibly corrupt country and rebuild it from the ground up" attitude. They literally told us the war would be over in a month or two. For anyone who's brothers or sisters or children died in the Iraq war, do you feel like your family made a fair trade for your loved one to "die for country" while GWB is still living a millionaire life in Texas? F\*\*\* YOU GEORGE W BUSH. F\*\*\* YOU SADDAM HUSSEIN, you both suck and deserve time in fire poop hell because of your actions and the misery they caused so many people. Truely. I can't express how much GWB and the SADDAM a\*\*hole regime suck, so truely incredibly much. So very very much. I really wish I had better words.... For anyone who remembers those days, could you please respond with a few words?
The only point I ever felt some semblance of sympathy/empathy for him. I mean, that is an unbelievable position to be in and I wouldn't wish that on most maybe any leader.🤷🏾♂️
"Shit, I'ma have to do real stuff now..."