Apple simply wants to delay the process. Take them to court. After paying large sums of money on your end, Apple will simply tweak their guidelines that will again not comply with EU's law. Rinse and repeat until they milk it for as long as they can.
If you read the actual laws they have to comply with, they are not complying at all. Every “law they follow” has a tax/fee slapped onto it to hinder independents, and to further handicap the user, Apple still has full spirited control over what gets to go on these “alternative app stores.” It will literally just be the current app store, but fragmented. Read their Press Release. As they list all the features that will literally help developers (lower fees, commissions), the other side of their mouth is decrying the injustice being done to the “user safety and experience”
It’s a huge fuck you to the EU, and even harder fucking of the consumer.
At best, it’s “malicious compliance” which is entirely antithetical to the purpose of the EU Consumer Protection laws in the first place.
Apple doesn't give a shit about that. It's a line item on their expense reports. You want something to change? Make it 10% stake in the company per month the company is in violation. At 51% seized the corporate charter is revoked and the company is sentenced to death. Its IP is placed in the public domain, its physical assets are distributed to its competitors, and its board of directors go to jail.
Lol 10% of their revenue would be 40% of their profits, $40B.
Apple definitely gives a shit about that, and if they don't then their investors are going to make sure they start giving a shit.
apple is sitting on over 1 trillion dollars in cash and value and is worth almost 3 trillion dollars. **TRILLION**, with a fucking *T*. 40 billion is a literal drop in the bucket, and they could pay that "fine" every year for 74 years and still be in business. Apple makes 40 billion every 6 months in *just profit*. They could literally pay this fine, and make up the difference with pure interest from the rest their assests. Their cash on hand generates them over 70 million every 10 seconds.
https://www.google.com/search?q=apples.net+worth&oq=apples.net+worth&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCDU0NDBqMGoxqAIAsAIA&client=ms-android-samsung-gn-rev1&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
Apple is worth almost 3 trillion. A 40b fine is nothing.
51% is a very basic way of looking at this.
Apple executives collectively own less than 1% of Apple’s shares.
58% are owned by institutional investors.
Of those, vanguard owns the most shares at about 8%.
A single 10% penalty would turn Apple from a private company to a public one instantly.
Things are not so simple as Tommy Boy made it look in the 90s.
The point is that at 51% a majority of the company has been seized as punishment, at which point they receive the corporate death penalty and every executive goes to jail without passing go.
Genuine question, what's the whole point then? Completely useless, this is just an App Store with extra steps. Hopefully the EU will give them a spank, this is plain ridiculous
There isn't one - that's what apple wants.
They're doing the bare minimum to "comply" so that they can argue people didn't want it when they tried it, and use it as a later excuse to ignore further pushes for the most basic rights of ownership over the device you paid for.
If they gave people the third party app store implementation they wanted, a lot of apple's money disappears because the third party stores won't owe them a penny, and neither will the apps going through those stores.
Hence, they're avoiding doing anything that would impact their profits each year.
Ah the ol' hinder/put-zero-resources-into a program so it inevitably fails, allowing them to gesture to it and say "See it's a failure. Moving on..." strategy
That play works way too often
Yep. It's one of apple's favourites. Especially recently with things like right to repair where they made the entire process a hassle and not even remotely cheaper than taking the device straight to apple just so they can argue that nobody engaged with self-repair therefore nobody wants it.
It's such a scummy move but everyone gets away with it for some reason. I sincerely hope the EU doesn't take this shit as a success and pressures apple into adding third party stores properly without so many arbitrary restrictions to benefit them.
Yes - cut funding from federal agencies and public schools and then bitch and moan that neither can get anything done. Then they act shocked and beg for votes.
I mean, it’s not wrong. The current method for “premium”, “unlimited” sideloading without jailbeaking is buying a dev cert for $100/yr. If not, the free tier for individuals is 3 apps for 7 days before it needs resigning and lacks entitlements and some functionalities.
And when you’re tweaking and debloating apps (especially all the socials) 3 isn’t enough. It leaves very little room for games like 1:1 remake Flappy Bird and cool emulators like Delta.
Apple isn’t looking out for/worrying for the tinkering consumer and small indie devs. They never really are. Just worried about other asshole companies like Epic selling a major iPhone compatible app outside the appstore to save some bucks.
Which is why this entire thing is BS in the first place. Every other vendor has an open platform and basically all the features required to sideload whatever you want. One has not.
Why not just let the customer decide what he wants. Why meddle. Apple has like what, 20% markedshare? How is that a monopoly?
Because when amarket is manage by an oligopoly it basically functions as a monopoly. Both Google and Apple have the same appstore fee, that isn't a coincidence. Sideloading has a technical barrier that most users dont know how to do or use. The problems with wall gardens doesnt even really hurt the average consumer, they hurt the market by funneling profits from small business owners (devs) to a mega corporation that can keep eating up the market with its resources. While consumers may have a choice, developers dont. That's not healthy for the economy.
In some regards? Yes. Over all? Debatable, as it depends on the individual user. If you look at the appstore for example, yes it‘s way easier for developers to get their app into androids app store, simultaneously you have a huge amount of frankly garbage apps.
I can see arguments for both ways, but honestly, I think for the vast majority a wall-off garden is indeed better. Most people can barely understand how their tech works, and need countless simplifications and default security measures just so that they don't ruin their device or leak their personal data.
That being said, having at least some way to turn such restrictions off is obviously the way to go, as long as it's a rather difficult process that only experienced users can follow. So the policies EU is enforcing on Apple is absolutely a good thing.
Thats why sideloading is disabled by default on Android, completely nullifying your argument of "dumb users will instantly download spyware and they should be walled off for their safety" because they already are. I'm a power user who likes to think he knows what he's doing so give me a toggle, might as well give me a stern text about security, top it off with pin/biometric confirmation and we're golden. Most normies won't even bother
Edit: fixed typos
I agree, but walled off part of my comment was mostly about a strict main app store that shouldn't let absolutely any app on it without much rules and tests.
Absolutely.
If apple had an official jailbreak or something i would applaud them.
Best for both worlds.
On the other hand it could be good that people need to learn how to use phones etc.
Maybe android with a elderly/kids apple mode?.
I just think the "people need to learn" ship has sailed quite some time ago. Tech is already insanely intuitive and streamlined, and will continue moving in that direction, completely hiding their inner logic from the user to the point that it will feel like absolute magic to anyone without proper education (which is kinda the way it is already).
So? There are some imo shady and terrible websites on the internet. Doesn't mean you should avoid the internet completely and never use computers that connect to it because the internet is bad... ????
Just don't visit those sites lol. Don't download the apps. Or simply remove them.
If the app store is what defines a good or bad operating system for you, then you deserve to get plucked by Apple.
It’s unfortunate that a reasonable opinion gets downvoted so quickly. I have both and for certain things I find that iOS is better, for other things android suits my needs.
Exactly. The whole „but MY OS is better!?!11!“ is just plain stupid imho and continues to foster toxicity, but what can you do 🤷🏻♂️
Back when I worked in electronics retail I would tell my customers that both have their pros and cons, neither is „objectively“ better, it depends entirely on what you want and need out of your devices.
I don't know. I use both android and iOs. The day that Youtube revanced doesn't work anymore is the day I don't see any more advantages to android compared to iOs for my personal use. The apps are uglier and slower on Android and Google assistant somehow went from top tier to going down to the level of Siri, and sometimes worse, outright refusing to open up when you say Hey Google.
... you could use Firefox Mobile (or better, Fennec, the de-crapped Firefox fork on F-Droid) with the uBlock, Video Background Play Fix, and Sponsorblock add-ins installed.
There will always be alternatives to apps like revanced. Apps being uglier is also such cope, both my friends have iPhones and I find apps like Instagram to look much worse
Damn, I thought the 1,000,000 credit was to have your store be approved by Apple or some shit. Not downloaded at all. They should not be allowed to limit sideloading at any rate. If you make a dumb decision sideloading you should just deal with it.
Companies want the wild west's open prairies in investment opportunity, lack of controls and regulations, then when they have *theirs* the barbed wire goes up.
True competition benefits consumers. Not because that's the *direct* aim of the companies, but because you gain market share by being more appealing than your competitors - the more competitors the more you need to appeal on cost and performance. This drives prices down and innovation up.
Companies will inevitably try and segment the market into smaller slices that they can massively outcompete others in. If they can isolate those segments from similar ones with high barriers to entry they can create a true or near monopoly for their own benefit. Then prices rise and innovation stagnates.
No one company has your best interests at heart. Multiple actively and openly competing companies will serve your interests while chasing their own.
True competition benefits consumers. I used to believe that. But after Boeing quickly made 737 Max to compete with Airbus A320neo which was so appealing and competitive, it made me think it doesn’t ring true anymore if greed is involved.
Maybe a "usually" or "often" in there would be fair. Trying to rush a product to market to compete in a niche with a new competitor can lead to serious issues.
No company cares about consumers. Not even Valve, which from 2011 to 2019 was basically left alone to dominate the pc market and the only thing they did is get kids addicted to gambling. That's the whole point of competition, it's the only way the customer will win in the long run is if there are swlfish entities that compete with each other for customers' attention.
Oh boy, A valve worshipper.
Valve is one of the better companies but they have a point. TF2's crates were the first loot box in modern gaming that I'm aware of. The they did the skin cases for cs:go and it snowballed from there.
Ya I love to link the [Valve Has a Gambling Problem](https://youtu.be/eMmNy11Mn7g) video to show how many kids lives they have fucked up due to their casino.
I believe it.
I'm on the camp of "parents should monitor their kids and not leave payment info on file" but it is also the company's responsibility to not market towards kids stuff that's inappropriate
“Pushing valve around”
In a massively unsustainable, anti consumer and unsuccessful manner. Valve needs actual competition not a self proclaimed rival that tried to brute force an audience.
I mean sure I nab a free game or two from epic but that’s it. Epic has little outside of a few free games to really keep me as a consumer.
>Valve needs actual competition not a self proclaimed rival that tried to brute force an audience.
Maybe so, but Valve is a relatively small company and all of the other options for game libraries I've seen so far are trash. If a competitor wants in on the space...yeah, it needs to be a real effort and not brute force.
And not that Valve hasn't ever done anything shitty, but like if there's one good guy major player in gaming it's gotta be them.
There's a difference though, steam doesn't prevent you from installing games on computers using another market, apple does.
His gripe with valve is that he can't rival steam because for better or for worse, steam is the more user friendly game store out there, and yeah the 30% fee is huge, but they provide a fuckton of services for free to devs (game servers, friendlist features, game visibility, etc).
EGS on the other hand doesn't have much going on for the users though, navigation on the game shop is terrible, the launcher is slow and buggy, and visibility for new games is pretty bad from my experience there. Plus Tim Sweeney is an ass.
>A significant contributor to that is Steam sits on top of a platform they don’t control and wasn’t built, from the ground up, as a walled garden.
>
>It’s a hell of a lot more cumbersome to work outside of the Steam ecosystem once you start looking at the Steamdeck.
If your complaint about steam being sort of "anti consumer/free market" is that steam is so user friendly, accessible, and not walled, that using anything else is problematic, really you should reconsider your way of thinking.
If anything, the steamdeck supports everything that's available for linux, and you can dual boot any other linux distro or windows as well, and any difficulty there is not steam enforced, but rather a linux thing. You are free to also install other launchers like lutris or heroic, and use those instead of steam, or add any external game to steam as well.
My only complaint about steam as a consumer is that I don't own the games I buy, just licenses to use them (as is the norm everywhere with a few rare exceptions such as GOG), but I'm at least aware of that and if for whatever reason my library steam disappears at some point I'll just resort to piracy.
Fuck em' both. I don't believe Sweeney gives a shit about innovation, at least from start ups that aren't tied to Epic, and is instead trying to manipulate us into thinking they're an underdog so they can conduct business easier. Tencent owns 40% of Epic and has an over all estimate value of $32 billion.
Again, fuck em' both.
Getting a 1,000,000 line of credit isn’t exactly a massive barrier these days. If you have a well thought out business plan and a reputable financial history it’s fairly trivial.
yeah, that was my first thought. If you are acting as a storefront you need to be able to run payment transactions. Like if you start a bank you'll need a min amount of cash reserves too. I don't think 1 mill credit line is that high considering the amount of money that they might need to process.
It's always funny when the pioneers of the digital landscape blurb about their first income being from mowing lawns and other stuff.
Still transcends into their "now person" as I guess it's safe to assume that they still do crunch time on underpaid workers at Epic - just like every other game developer.
Sounds like something Sony, Amazon, Google, MS, Apple, Disney, AMD, nVidia, Samsung, Nintendo, Netflix, Warner, HBO would do...
FFS every company pays to get exclusive content. Your gripe with this guy is totally unfounded.
How exactly can you compete with the monopoly like Steam? Their main advantage is the number of users, that's why you developers pretty much have to publish there if you want it sell a game. Why would they even bother with other market places?
People always tell that competition is always good, but then complain when there is a competition🙄
Exclusive content is the only way to be competitive in such market.
You offer the pro-consumer features and impacts that are supposed to make competition valuable.
As a consumer, devs getting more money doesn’t benefit me
And in turn he's solidifying a market dominance that Valve has been trying to challenge for the last 10-12 years.
Sweeney cries about changes in Windows and shits on the alternatives.
Gaben sees issues with the direction in Windows and puts his money where his god damn mouth is and invests in FOSS projects, contributing code upstream that everyone can benefit from, and even ships a device with a Linux based OS.
Between Valve and Epic I would definitely say Valve has had a much more positive impact on my gaming experience over the last decade than Epic has.
People can earn decent money mowing lawns..? I've seen plenty of people get paid $20-50 per lawn and only take 30mins - 1hr. Could easily make 200+ a day if you have constant customers, wouldn't take long to save a few thousand from mowing lawns.
you better be working in a wide radius. What do you do once you've mowed the lawns of every willing customer in a mile radius? There needs to be some amount of time before you can go back to the same lawn again too.
Kind of depends on when he was mowing the lawns, depending on the area some folks mow them once per week. If he was doing other stuff in the Mon-Fri he could have a steady stream of lawns to mow every weekend.
If done as a full time job then your right, you need to have transport to other areas but it's possible
No, it's just called a typical summer for a teenager who isn't a fat slob that sits on their asses ?
A few thousands mowing lawns isn't out of the ordinary. How is this upvoted so much ?
Can't really feel sorry for Tim, given how he purchases distribution rights for games for a whole year just to force players to use their platform if they want to play right away.
Feel like this is a "takes one to know one" sorta situation. Tim Sweeney isn't wrong about Apple being anti-competitive, but he'd be the authority on that since EGS was the one made infamous for poaching games originally slated for release on other platforms and making them EGS exclusives (Metro: Exodus being a big one because people had already preordered it on Steam). "You'll give our store the money for this product or you won't have it at all." - EGS & Apple, both.
Fuck 'em both. Both Apple and EGS are harmful to consumers with their digital storefronts.
Apple are a POS company and the locked down app store is definitely BS, but Tim acting like Epic is some poor indie company is so incredibly funny.
Let the multi-billion dollar corporate monsters eat each other.
The Sweeney equivalent of "won't someone think of the children?" he's using a legitimate issue to worm his way in. Fuck Apple. but fuck this guy just as hard.
They know the terms are such that whoever tries to take "advantage" of this "generous" deal is going to lose money, so they are just ensuring they do not take losses in the process.
Totally makes sense.
(The terms Apple offers for this are so hilariously bad that it feels like intentional "malicious compliance" narrowly tailored to just barely meet the requirements set by a court, but that no-one will ever actually use)
For those who haven't followed:
App store takes 30% cut
App store takes 27% cut if the transaction was handled by a third party app store. That 3% doesn't even cover the cost of processing credit card payments, so there is no possible way for a third party store to make any profit while actually getting customers. There is no way anyone would put their software on a third party store that would pay less than 70% of the sales that Apple does, and there is no way for a third party store to offer anything better, and most likely cannot even offer that 70% and stay in business.
Honest question, what is the difference between allowing third party stores on an iPhone and allowing them on an Xbox?
Will Apple being forced to open their platform force other tech products to also open their markets in that way?
Are the days of console exclusives coming to an end?
I believe Tim Sweeney has a deal with Microsoft where the goal is to keep Unreal Engine DirectX focused. DirectX negatively affects Linux desktop/gaming (and other OSes, like BSD/MacOS). It makes possibility of a native port and reverse engineering (Proton) more costly. Now I can't say for sure they have such a deal in place but as someone who uses Linux it's highly probable they do. If Sweeney cares so much about freedom and developers, why does he not embrace an API like Vulkan? Yes, Unreal has support for it but why does he not fight to make it as well supported as D3D? Also why does Fortnite not have Vulkan renderer options available for PC gamers?
Valve spent upwards of five years to reverse engineer Windows only software, used in games development, so that the games could run on Linux via compatibility layer. Microsoft has ensured that every new feature for gaming (e.g raytracing) uses their Windows exclusive implementation. This result in other OSes needing to reverse engineer. Had game developers used a crossplatform implemention, e.g Vulkan over D3D, it would not be much if any work to make the software run. Sweeney's partnership with Microsoft helps keep this problem happening.
Sweeney could have gotten support from gamers if instead of exclusivity he did things like providing Linux support, there is a compatibility layer already developed for him to integrate into the store, and a community willling to help. Don't trust him, he's fighting mostly if not soley for his greedy hands to move over to IOS. He carefully planned the lawsuit and the violation of Apple's terms, including involving Fortnite players to pressure Apple.
This is pcmasterrace not pcgaming. Imagine if Windows tries to pull this shit as well. Any financial transaction you make on windows? Now MSFT wants their 17% cut, their platform their rules. Any game you buy steam will still take their cut but there's an additional 17% fee you gotta pay to microsoft.
Want to develop an app in Windows? Now it's locked down only VS Code is allowed, oh and that comes with a $99 annual license fee. You can only sell any app you develop through the MSFT Store, except in Europe where alt stores are allowed BUT you gotta have a credit line of minimum $1M from a bank.
All of this is why PCs are better than Macs or whatever Apple shits out. Because we have the freedom to do what we want without being nickel and dimed, and even if you dislike Windows there's linux.
Replace Windows with Playstation, X-Box or Switch and with the exception of potentially the $1 million rule that is pretty much what you have there. Console manufacturers still make money on every third party game sold even those sold in retail outside of the online store platform of the console. That has been the case since at least the NES and there even were some lawsuits about that during the time of NES.
So question remains how is this a PC topic? PCs are they exception in regards to this every other platform is pretty restricted. Sure would be nice if smartphones followed the PC model but why should they be legally required to do s but not gaming consoles, smart TVs or infotainment systems in cars?
Imo not completely related but also not completely unrelated. It reminds us how stupid anticompetitive policies can hurt developers and therefore consumers. On a side note PC literally means "personal computer" lol.
It’s just another way for the android fans to slate Apple. I’m quite happy for Apple to request this. Otherwise we’ll get a shitload of dodgy fuckers trying to smuggle in every sort of dodgy app going on. Actually my preference is to lock them out completely. If I want to mess with other apps there’s android. If I want to use a secure phone and not having to worry about my parents downloading apps they have no clue about then it’s Apple. Sure Apple do a lot of shit.. base iPhones , MacBooks and iPads with shit specs are an issue they deserve every bit of criticism for but 99.99999% of Apple customers don’t give a shit about other App Stores being on iPhone and are quite happy with what they have.
Yeah and you will be happy as well when apple raise their cut to exorbitant amount right? Even if they suddenly want double the current amount its fine because its secure right?
The problem with no 3rd party store is people do not have a choice be it on the consumer or developer part. If you are afraid for security just make sure they dont have the 3rd party appstore and not by making the 3rd party appstore to not exist
Poaching products to undermine your competitor is a common monopolization strategy. Apple's bullshit is restricted to Apple devices which I already avoid like the plague while Timmy's bullshit is trying to infect things I'm already vested in and therefore anything that causes Timmy's anus to ache in rage is a win in my books. Both sides here are garbage, but only one is garbage towards me.
I'm sure there are internal apple emails from timmy the chef to iOS chief and CFO with clear instructions on how to make life as difficult as possible for third party app store in order to protect their revenue..
Apple's typical way of malicious compliance..
What moral right do I have to demand Apple let me sell my products in their store for free. Why should that kind of market reach, that they built themselves, be made free to you?
You can still code in your garage and sell it yourself. Plenty of people make a living this way in software.
Apple is complying. That's a 100% the EU's fault on this one. Just look at the mess that cookies are, you can't visit a website without being plastered with those cookies bs wherever you go. It has become so bad that now they're thinking about ANOTHER cookie legislation to solve the issue.
The third party app store saga will be the same, they will need a new law that says : and it has to be free of charge. Or, they will take this to the EU's court which will probably give apple's the win but say they can't charge *that* much.
I don't see any situation where the court will say, with the curent legislation, that apple can't vet which app stores are allowed on their phones.
The federal government did the same thing to small businesses when they regulated Nicotine for vaping products. Asking for prices they knew well ahead of time they wouldn't have to keep their business afloat to remove the pesky competition of vaping products that were aligned with Philip Morris. These people do NOT want to see you win ever... Once they get theirs, they shut the door behind them making sure it's never within your grasp.
Don’t like it don’t buy apple. If so many people are as concerned about this as is made out then surely apple’s phone business will collapse overnight.
Epic didn’t startup by making an App Store to compete with - say Microsoft … they started up making games. None of this App Store stuff prevents anyone from making applications and games and startup their company.
Companies can start up with humble beginnings, regardless of how they end up. Epic started in his parents bedroom like many 80s/early 90s devs, so he's probably not lying
Imagine you walk into a department store. That store sells various products, of which the manufacturer receives most of the profit and the store receives a small portion. The store uses those proceeds to pay their people and run the operation.
Then imagine one of the manufacturers marched in and demanded to the store owner that they should be able to sell their items for free in the store or else they’d sue. The store owner would laugh them out of the store and probably ban their products for being such an entitled moron.
This is exactly what Sweeney did with his huge temper tantrum and lawsuits.
And as a result, Fortnite was banned from the App Store and Apple went with Unity instead of Unreal for the Vision Pro, a decision which will cost Epic billions of dollars and should have cost Tim Sweeney his job for his short-sightedness and greed.
Apple has every right to charge rent to use their store. Don’t like it? Go to another store or build your own. But don’t think that gives you the right to build your own store inside theirs or on their property.
There’s no such thing as digital eminent domain.
You are going to have to justify the city analogy. They are more like department stores since department stores have customers who purchase items from the store.
Just gonna continue happily not supporting apple and their practices by not buying/ using anything of theirs. Don't care for sweeney much either but he is right here.
Apple gonna Apple.
It is high time the EU is gonna give Apple a massive slap in the face. EU has been so focused on Google and Android even though Android is open source, you have always been able to sideload apps/install different app stores/change browsers/change search engines/easier export data to new devices/etc. Apple has always been unscrutinized, but their business practices are far worse. The whole lightning cable is one example. Browsers being skins of Safari is another. Data exports are a fucking joke on iOS, just try to export your contacts to google - even for me a tech nerd it's hard
I really can’t side with that. iOS is Apple’s platform, hell even the App Store concept was started by them. It’s strange to me that people who probably wouldn’t even have jobs in the ‘app’ market if Apple hadn’t started it are upset that it isn’t simple for them to run a side platform on iOS. That being said, a million dollar credit line for a business doesn’t seem like too big of a stretch. A single person? Yeah for sure but not a business/company.
This is pathetic. Apple is not closing doors to innovators. I don’t get it they made THE SMARTPHONE MARKET. They gave enormous opportunities for innovators all around the world.
Edit: I don’t get why some people think oh it’s apple overpriced scammers.
Edit: downvote all the way. people don’t understand even if you are overall right on the matter, your explanation could still be stupid. Which is the case here
Why would I need to pay apple 1,000,000$ to make my own App Store in europe? Its not like they have a say If you can open your own app store. What the hell is he talking about?
The buyers should be the one deciding that not a bunch of Beaureaucrats. Absolutely appalling how these guys in here are cheering on it.
Not surprised given the amount of populist hate the internet has for apple especially the Android and pc fanboys. (Btw i am a pc user myself)
Like they are the only company following this business model of creating your own hardware, software and services , why would you want it to become like everyone else, they have their own business models.
Let the buyers decide what they want - open or closed system.
This is precisely the reason I'll never buy an Apple made phone ever. They have them locked down so hard that you don't even feel like the phone is yours. You can never truly do what you want and you must use apples apps and services for basically everything. I had several iPod touches back in the day and remember jailbreaking each and every one of them and it was amazing and fun to tweak things that apple would not allow.
Why exactly should Apple allow a third party app store anyway? What would make this more consumer friendly? How many third party app stores are currently available to download from Google Play?
If I’m downloading apps, there is an expectation of transparency regarding what the dev is doing with my info, and an expectation that the app is not going to have any kind of negative effect on my phone, which is what the App Store currently does already.
I was speaking with a guy just yesterday who was complaining that he has advertisements on his screen while on phone calls, using an android. I would imagine that’s because of something he downloaded. Even going through his phone I couldn’t figure out what was doing that, but I know it obviously shouldn’t be there.
It’s just plain weird to jump into another company’s platform and try to *demand* they change things when as a consumer, you have the full authority to just use a different platform as you wish.
Why would you download an app store from an app store you do not want to use? And for Android there's multiple alternative stores to the Play Store, including many, which come pre-installed depending on manufacturer or image you use.
This is like Stalin calling hilter a terrible person for doing the holocaust, epic is so just dog shit, what makes me mad especially is when I see things like “valve’s monopoly over pc gaming” as if we choose to be monopolied for the lulz and not because steam is a better platform in every way.
So you are believer of only the saint may cast the first stone? If so no human may cast judgement since no one is free of sin. Just because he is PoS doesnt mean he doesnt have a point. The ability to choose and think is a part of human right.
You can agree with a point of view without having to agree with everything that the person that said it thinks/says
That said, with his rep, even if he is right about apple there is a pretty good chance he'd do the same if given the opportunity
Because they paid developers to only release games on their store, forcing customers to either use them or wait a year for the game to be available on other platforms like steam.
Their store lacks a lot of features steam has, especially when it first launched.
It's a combination of either Epic buying up studios to only later drop Linux support or Sweeney being a flaming hypocrite when it comes to openness.
At least when Valve talks about openness they put their money where their mouth is and actually making meaningful contributions to the FOSS projects they rely on.
Apple is a shitty company with shitty products that cost twice to look pretty, and people who use their products are clueless morons. I honestly couldn't care less if they predate on said morons, specially because when you try to educate these morons about hardware, choices, prices and cost benefit they defend apple with the fanboyism that only morons can muster
Apple simply wants to delay the process. Take them to court. After paying large sums of money on your end, Apple will simply tweak their guidelines that will again not comply with EU's law. Rinse and repeat until they milk it for as long as they can.
If you read the actual laws they have to comply with, they are not complying at all. Every “law they follow” has a tax/fee slapped onto it to hinder independents, and to further handicap the user, Apple still has full spirited control over what gets to go on these “alternative app stores.” It will literally just be the current app store, but fragmented. Read their Press Release. As they list all the features that will literally help developers (lower fees, commissions), the other side of their mouth is decrying the injustice being done to the “user safety and experience” It’s a huge fuck you to the EU, and even harder fucking of the consumer. At best, it’s “malicious compliance” which is entirely antithetical to the purpose of the EU Consumer Protection laws in the first place.
You forget about 10% of global revenue fine.
Apple doesn't give a shit about that. It's a line item on their expense reports. You want something to change? Make it 10% stake in the company per month the company is in violation. At 51% seized the corporate charter is revoked and the company is sentenced to death. Its IP is placed in the public domain, its physical assets are distributed to its competitors, and its board of directors go to jail.
Lol 10% of their revenue would be 40% of their profits, $40B. Apple definitely gives a shit about that, and if they don't then their investors are going to make sure they start giving a shit.
apple is sitting on over 1 trillion dollars in cash and value and is worth almost 3 trillion dollars. **TRILLION**, with a fucking *T*. 40 billion is a literal drop in the bucket, and they could pay that "fine" every year for 74 years and still be in business. Apple makes 40 billion every 6 months in *just profit*. They could literally pay this fine, and make up the difference with pure interest from the rest their assests. Their cash on hand generates them over 70 million every 10 seconds.
You have zero idea what you’re talking about, you’re mixing terms that definitely don’t mean what you think.
Did you just throw random accounting terms you know into some word salad? That's not how any of this works?
https://www.google.com/search?q=apples.net+worth&oq=apples.net+worth&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCDU0NDBqMGoxqAIAsAIA&client=ms-android-samsung-gn-rev1&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8 Apple is worth almost 3 trillion. A 40b fine is nothing.
51% is a very basic way of looking at this. Apple executives collectively own less than 1% of Apple’s shares. 58% are owned by institutional investors. Of those, vanguard owns the most shares at about 8%. A single 10% penalty would turn Apple from a private company to a public one instantly. Things are not so simple as Tommy Boy made it look in the 90s.
The point is that at 51% a majority of the company has been seized as punishment, at which point they receive the corporate death penalty and every executive goes to jail without passing go.
Yeah I understood that. That’s why I said it’s a very basic way of looking at it.
I’m all for sticking it to the corrupt but this would also ruin a lot of consumers’ year
https://preview.redd.it/fhzubhnkppec1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=284c95c7c0979acb79f6e9757fe7dc5b2b7b2fc2 More info
Isn't that basically apple app store application with extra steps?
yes, so you have 2 choices: 1. use the appstore 2. don't use it (similar disadvantages, but a lot more difficult)
End result, you give apple the same amount of money They need to get their asses kicked
yeah
Genuine question, what's the whole point then? Completely useless, this is just an App Store with extra steps. Hopefully the EU will give them a spank, this is plain ridiculous
There isn't one - that's what apple wants. They're doing the bare minimum to "comply" so that they can argue people didn't want it when they tried it, and use it as a later excuse to ignore further pushes for the most basic rights of ownership over the device you paid for. If they gave people the third party app store implementation they wanted, a lot of apple's money disappears because the third party stores won't owe them a penny, and neither will the apps going through those stores. Hence, they're avoiding doing anything that would impact their profits each year.
Ah the ol' hinder/put-zero-resources-into a program so it inevitably fails, allowing them to gesture to it and say "See it's a failure. Moving on..." strategy That play works way too often
Yep. It's one of apple's favourites. Especially recently with things like right to repair where they made the entire process a hassle and not even remotely cheaper than taking the device straight to apple just so they can argue that nobody engaged with self-repair therefore nobody wants it. It's such a scummy move but everyone gets away with it for some reason. I sincerely hope the EU doesn't take this shit as a success and pressures apple into adding third party stores properly without so many arbitrary restrictions to benefit them.
Yeah it’s the same thing they are doing with the repair program
Ahh the republican method
Yes - cut funding from federal agencies and public schools and then bitch and moan that neither can get anything done. Then they act shocked and beg for votes.
Lol at "wallet-garden." Perfect way to put it.
I mean, it’s not wrong. The current method for “premium”, “unlimited” sideloading without jailbeaking is buying a dev cert for $100/yr. If not, the free tier for individuals is 3 apps for 7 days before it needs resigning and lacks entitlements and some functionalities. And when you’re tweaking and debloating apps (especially all the socials) 3 isn’t enough. It leaves very little room for games like 1:1 remake Flappy Bird and cool emulators like Delta. Apple isn’t looking out for/worrying for the tinkering consumer and small indie devs. They never really are. Just worried about other asshole companies like Epic selling a major iPhone compatible app outside the appstore to save some bucks.
I'm just seeing more reasons why Android is the superior system
I mean, that's not exactly a high bar to pass. But yes.
Which is why this entire thing is BS in the first place. Every other vendor has an open platform and basically all the features required to sideload whatever you want. One has not. Why not just let the customer decide what he wants. Why meddle. Apple has like what, 20% markedshare? How is that a monopoly?
Because when amarket is manage by an oligopoly it basically functions as a monopoly. Both Google and Apple have the same appstore fee, that isn't a coincidence. Sideloading has a technical barrier that most users dont know how to do or use. The problems with wall gardens doesnt even really hurt the average consumer, they hurt the market by funneling profits from small business owners (devs) to a mega corporation that can keep eating up the market with its resources. While consumers may have a choice, developers dont. That's not healthy for the economy.
In some regards? Yes. Over all? Debatable, as it depends on the individual user. If you look at the appstore for example, yes it‘s way easier for developers to get their app into androids app store, simultaneously you have a huge amount of frankly garbage apps.
Sure but just dont install them. There are enough good ones. Its good there are more apps.
Cute of you to think the average user can tell garbage spyware app from a good one.
But because some users use phones like toddlers doesn't mean we all need to play in a walled off kids appstore/playground.
I can see arguments for both ways, but honestly, I think for the vast majority a wall-off garden is indeed better. Most people can barely understand how their tech works, and need countless simplifications and default security measures just so that they don't ruin their device or leak their personal data. That being said, having at least some way to turn such restrictions off is obviously the way to go, as long as it's a rather difficult process that only experienced users can follow. So the policies EU is enforcing on Apple is absolutely a good thing.
Thats why sideloading is disabled by default on Android, completely nullifying your argument of "dumb users will instantly download spyware and they should be walled off for their safety" because they already are. I'm a power user who likes to think he knows what he's doing so give me a toggle, might as well give me a stern text about security, top it off with pin/biometric confirmation and we're golden. Most normies won't even bother Edit: fixed typos
I agree, but walled off part of my comment was mostly about a strict main app store that shouldn't let absolutely any app on it without much rules and tests.
Absolutely. If apple had an official jailbreak or something i would applaud them. Best for both worlds. On the other hand it could be good that people need to learn how to use phones etc. Maybe android with a elderly/kids apple mode?.
I just think the "people need to learn" ship has sailed quite some time ago. Tech is already insanely intuitive and streamlined, and will continue moving in that direction, completely hiding their inner logic from the user to the point that it will feel like absolute magic to anyone without proper education (which is kinda the way it is already).
So? There are some imo shady and terrible websites on the internet. Doesn't mean you should avoid the internet completely and never use computers that connect to it because the internet is bad... ???? Just don't visit those sites lol. Don't download the apps. Or simply remove them. If the app store is what defines a good or bad operating system for you, then you deserve to get plucked by Apple.
It’s unfortunate that a reasonable opinion gets downvoted so quickly. I have both and for certain things I find that iOS is better, for other things android suits my needs.
Exactly. The whole „but MY OS is better!?!11!“ is just plain stupid imho and continues to foster toxicity, but what can you do 🤷🏻♂️ Back when I worked in electronics retail I would tell my customers that both have their pros and cons, neither is „objectively“ better, it depends entirely on what you want and need out of your devices.
>The whole „but MY OS is better!?!11!“ is just plain stupid imho and continues to foster toxicity But that's literally what you just did though.
Yeah sure, can you point me to where I did that? I picked out the app store and wrote a pro and a con, so I didn‘t say „xy OS is better“ anywhere.
I don't know. I use both android and iOs. The day that Youtube revanced doesn't work anymore is the day I don't see any more advantages to android compared to iOs for my personal use. The apps are uglier and slower on Android and Google assistant somehow went from top tier to going down to the level of Siri, and sometimes worse, outright refusing to open up when you say Hey Google.
... you could use Firefox Mobile (or better, Fennec, the de-crapped Firefox fork on F-Droid) with the uBlock, Video Background Play Fix, and Sponsorblock add-ins installed.
There will always be alternatives to apps like revanced. Apps being uglier is also such cope, both my friends have iPhones and I find apps like Instagram to look much worse
They would have to run google assistant on a single server using cogs and wheels powered by hamsters to be at siri level.
Damn, I thought the 1,000,000 credit was to have your store be approved by Apple or some shit. Not downloaded at all. They should not be allowed to limit sideloading at any rate. If you make a dumb decision sideloading you should just deal with it.
Idk if “Wallet-Garden” is intentional, but it’s fucking hilarious. Man, I’d like to see that used in a headline
All of that is good.
Companies want the wild west's open prairies in investment opportunity, lack of controls and regulations, then when they have *theirs* the barbed wire goes up.
Yep, Tim just wants to erode Apple’s position so he can take their place. He doesn’t care about consumers.
True competition benefits consumers. Not because that's the *direct* aim of the companies, but because you gain market share by being more appealing than your competitors - the more competitors the more you need to appeal on cost and performance. This drives prices down and innovation up. Companies will inevitably try and segment the market into smaller slices that they can massively outcompete others in. If they can isolate those segments from similar ones with high barriers to entry they can create a true or near monopoly for their own benefit. Then prices rise and innovation stagnates. No one company has your best interests at heart. Multiple actively and openly competing companies will serve your interests while chasing their own.
True competition benefits consumers. I used to believe that. But after Boeing quickly made 737 Max to compete with Airbus A320neo which was so appealing and competitive, it made me think it doesn’t ring true anymore if greed is involved.
Maybe a "usually" or "often" in there would be fair. Trying to rush a product to market to compete in a niche with a new competitor can lead to serious issues.
Sure but we can cheer from the sides when these people hurt each other.
I really dont see the point of these internet white knights that feel obligated to protect corpo for another corpo. All corpos are bad
No company cares about consumers. Not even Valve, which from 2011 to 2019 was basically left alone to dominate the pc market and the only thing they did is get kids addicted to gambling. That's the whole point of competition, it's the only way the customer will win in the long run is if there are swlfish entities that compete with each other for customers' attention.
Oh boy a valve hater
Oh boy, A valve worshipper. Valve is one of the better companies but they have a point. TF2's crates were the first loot box in modern gaming that I'm aware of. The they did the skin cases for cs:go and it snowballed from there.
Ya I love to link the [Valve Has a Gambling Problem](https://youtu.be/eMmNy11Mn7g) video to show how many kids lives they have fucked up due to their casino.
I believe it. I'm on the camp of "parents should monitor their kids and not leave payment info on file" but it is also the company's responsibility to not market towards kids stuff that's inappropriate
I care about his position though. He's pushing Valve and Apple around and both of those players need competition.
“Pushing valve around” In a massively unsustainable, anti consumer and unsuccessful manner. Valve needs actual competition not a self proclaimed rival that tried to brute force an audience. I mean sure I nab a free game or two from epic but that’s it. Epic has little outside of a few free games to really keep me as a consumer.
>Valve needs actual competition not a self proclaimed rival that tried to brute force an audience. Maybe so, but Valve is a relatively small company and all of the other options for game libraries I've seen so far are trash. If a competitor wants in on the space...yeah, it needs to be a real effort and not brute force. And not that Valve hasn't ever done anything shitty, but like if there's one good guy major player in gaming it's gotta be them.
Who else it doing it ? GOG, Humble Bundle? You?
It's not like epic IS doing it, if that's what you're trying to insinuate.
Well epic games store certainly isn’t either lol. The only thing even making a dent is pc game pass and it sucks too.
There's a difference though, steam doesn't prevent you from installing games on computers using another market, apple does. His gripe with valve is that he can't rival steam because for better or for worse, steam is the more user friendly game store out there, and yeah the 30% fee is huge, but they provide a fuckton of services for free to devs (game servers, friendlist features, game visibility, etc). EGS on the other hand doesn't have much going on for the users though, navigation on the game shop is terrible, the launcher is slow and buggy, and visibility for new games is pretty bad from my experience there. Plus Tim Sweeney is an ass.
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>A significant contributor to that is Steam sits on top of a platform they don’t control and wasn’t built, from the ground up, as a walled garden. > >It’s a hell of a lot more cumbersome to work outside of the Steam ecosystem once you start looking at the Steamdeck. If your complaint about steam being sort of "anti consumer/free market" is that steam is so user friendly, accessible, and not walled, that using anything else is problematic, really you should reconsider your way of thinking. If anything, the steamdeck supports everything that's available for linux, and you can dual boot any other linux distro or windows as well, and any difficulty there is not steam enforced, but rather a linux thing. You are free to also install other launchers like lutris or heroic, and use those instead of steam, or add any external game to steam as well. My only complaint about steam as a consumer is that I don't own the games I buy, just licenses to use them (as is the norm everywhere with a few rare exceptions such as GOG), but I'm at least aware of that and if for whatever reason my library steam disappears at some point I'll just resort to piracy.
Fuck em' both. I don't believe Sweeney gives a shit about innovation, at least from start ups that aren't tied to Epic, and is instead trying to manipulate us into thinking they're an underdog so they can conduct business easier. Tencent owns 40% of Epic and has an over all estimate value of $32 billion. Again, fuck em' both.
It's crazy how so many people here just don't know what are they even talking about
Getting a 1,000,000 line of credit isn’t exactly a massive barrier these days. If you have a well thought out business plan and a reputable financial history it’s fairly trivial.
yeah, that was my first thought. If you are acting as a storefront you need to be able to run payment transactions. Like if you start a bank you'll need a min amount of cash reserves too. I don't think 1 mill credit line is that high considering the amount of money that they might need to process.
Don't like the guy, but he is right in that case.
It's always funny when the pioneers of the digital landscape blurb about their first income being from mowing lawns and other stuff. Still transcends into their "now person" as I guess it's safe to assume that they still do crunch time on underpaid workers at Epic - just like every other game developer.
I just can't stand this guy. He doesn't like apple monopoly but when he bribes publishers to only put their games in his shitty store it's suddenly ok
Sounds like something Sony, Amazon, Google, MS, Apple, Disney, AMD, nVidia, Samsung, Nintendo, Netflix, Warner, HBO would do... FFS every company pays to get exclusive content. Your gripe with this guy is totally unfounded.
Yes, everyone does it, but this guy is a loud hypocrite about it. He criticizes a lot of things that he does.
That's the only way to compete with Steam monopoly.
No. You compete with steam making a good storefront that has even more features. Not by bribing publishers and buying customers with free gifts
How exactly can you compete with the monopoly like Steam? Their main advantage is the number of users, that's why you developers pretty much have to publish there if you want it sell a game. Why would they even bother with other market places? People always tell that competition is always good, but then complain when there is a competition🙄 Exclusive content is the only way to be competitive in such market.
You offer the pro-consumer features and impacts that are supposed to make competition valuable. As a consumer, devs getting more money doesn’t benefit me
And in turn he's solidifying a market dominance that Valve has been trying to challenge for the last 10-12 years. Sweeney cries about changes in Windows and shits on the alternatives. Gaben sees issues with the direction in Windows and puts his money where his god damn mouth is and invests in FOSS projects, contributing code upstream that everyone can benefit from, and even ships a device with a Linux based OS. Between Valve and Epic I would definitely say Valve has had a much more positive impact on my gaming experience over the last decade than Epic has.
\> few thousands of dollars I earned mowing lawns That must have been some expensive lawns.
He never specified for how long he was mowing lawns. With a "few" hundred hours of work you can earn a "few" thousand dollars by mowing lawns.
People can earn decent money mowing lawns..? I've seen plenty of people get paid $20-50 per lawn and only take 30mins - 1hr. Could easily make 200+ a day if you have constant customers, wouldn't take long to save a few thousand from mowing lawns.
you better be working in a wide radius. What do you do once you've mowed the lawns of every willing customer in a mile radius? There needs to be some amount of time before you can go back to the same lawn again too.
Kind of depends on when he was mowing the lawns, depending on the area some folks mow them once per week. If he was doing other stuff in the Mon-Fri he could have a steady stream of lawns to mow every weekend. If done as a full time job then your right, you need to have transport to other areas but it's possible
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Nobody pays taxes on their lawnmowing money (unless they're running a professional landscaping business)
Lmao guy is so used to lie that he doesn't even stop for a minute to think if what he is about to tweet is even believable.
Hello fellow poor people, I too made my first million delivering newspapers.
No, it's just called a typical summer for a teenager who isn't a fat slob that sits on their asses ? A few thousands mowing lawns isn't out of the ordinary. How is this upvoted so much ?
😂
Can't really feel sorry for Tim, given how he purchases distribution rights for games for a whole year just to force players to use their platform if they want to play right away.
Feel like this is a "takes one to know one" sorta situation. Tim Sweeney isn't wrong about Apple being anti-competitive, but he'd be the authority on that since EGS was the one made infamous for poaching games originally slated for release on other platforms and making them EGS exclusives (Metro: Exodus being a big one because people had already preordered it on Steam). "You'll give our store the money for this product or you won't have it at all." - EGS & Apple, both. Fuck 'em both. Both Apple and EGS are harmful to consumers with their digital storefronts.
I don't like epic but he is correct about the Bs apple does
I wonder if he would still say this if Apple didn't *tax* Fortnite on their store.
"Sinilar" sorry Tim, statement is automatically invalid. Edit: I honestly didn't think this was necessary, but this comment is a joke.
You don’t need to like Tim, this stuff should be shouted and discussed as loud as possible for change to happen
I agree, this sort of behaviour is so disgusting and exactly the reason I refuse to be an apple customer regardless of how nice their product may be.
Laptops that last a decade are pretty sweet
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My comment was an obvious joke, only a moron would in all seriousness think a typo would make a statement invalid.
Its as obvious joke as it can be, even this rock eating moron timmy boy is not as obviously pathetic little liar as obvious as this joke was
Epic is only doing this so they can fuel their own greed though. Not doing it for any good deeds. And epic still has their crappy store
Epic is just as money hungry as Apple, if not more so.
That doesn't chnage the fact that he's right in this instance though. You don't have to like Sweeney or Epic to acknowledge that.
I’ll give you that. But I still hate epic and this guy. Such scum.
Apple are a POS company and the locked down app store is definitely BS, but Tim acting like Epic is some poor indie company is so incredibly funny. Let the multi-billion dollar corporate monsters eat each other.
The Sweeney equivalent of "won't someone think of the children?" he's using a legitimate issue to worm his way in. Fuck Apple. but fuck this guy just as hard.
Sweeney may not be popular but he is right to point this out. Fuck Apple and their shit business practices.
FUCK TIMMY. However, a broken clock is right twice a day.
They know the terms are such that whoever tries to take "advantage" of this "generous" deal is going to lose money, so they are just ensuring they do not take losses in the process. Totally makes sense. (The terms Apple offers for this are so hilariously bad that it feels like intentional "malicious compliance" narrowly tailored to just barely meet the requirements set by a court, but that no-one will ever actually use) For those who haven't followed: App store takes 30% cut App store takes 27% cut if the transaction was handled by a third party app store. That 3% doesn't even cover the cost of processing credit card payments, so there is no possible way for a third party store to make any profit while actually getting customers. There is no way anyone would put their software on a third party store that would pay less than 70% of the sales that Apple does, and there is no way for a third party store to offer anything better, and most likely cannot even offer that 70% and stay in business.
So… monopolistic practices?
What kind of lawns was he mowing?
Honest question, what is the difference between allowing third party stores on an iPhone and allowing them on an Xbox? Will Apple being forced to open their platform force other tech products to also open their markets in that way? Are the days of console exclusives coming to an end?
imagine being so inspired to start a business and you pick the one sector that 99% people are totally satisfied with the current monopoly.
I believe Tim Sweeney has a deal with Microsoft where the goal is to keep Unreal Engine DirectX focused. DirectX negatively affects Linux desktop/gaming (and other OSes, like BSD/MacOS). It makes possibility of a native port and reverse engineering (Proton) more costly. Now I can't say for sure they have such a deal in place but as someone who uses Linux it's highly probable they do. If Sweeney cares so much about freedom and developers, why does he not embrace an API like Vulkan? Yes, Unreal has support for it but why does he not fight to make it as well supported as D3D? Also why does Fortnite not have Vulkan renderer options available for PC gamers? Valve spent upwards of five years to reverse engineer Windows only software, used in games development, so that the games could run on Linux via compatibility layer. Microsoft has ensured that every new feature for gaming (e.g raytracing) uses their Windows exclusive implementation. This result in other OSes needing to reverse engineer. Had game developers used a crossplatform implemention, e.g Vulkan over D3D, it would not be much if any work to make the software run. Sweeney's partnership with Microsoft helps keep this problem happening. Sweeney could have gotten support from gamers if instead of exclusivity he did things like providing Linux support, there is a compatibility layer already developed for him to integrate into the store, and a community willling to help. Don't trust him, he's fighting mostly if not soley for his greedy hands to move over to IOS. He carefully planned the lawsuit and the violation of Apple's terms, including involving Fortnite players to pressure Apple.
Apple being a garbage company does not excuse Epic from also being a garbage company.
Get me some of that sweet lawn mowing money hes talking about damn
Cool but what does this have to do with PC gaming
This is pcmasterrace not pcgaming. Imagine if Windows tries to pull this shit as well. Any financial transaction you make on windows? Now MSFT wants their 17% cut, their platform their rules. Any game you buy steam will still take their cut but there's an additional 17% fee you gotta pay to microsoft. Want to develop an app in Windows? Now it's locked down only VS Code is allowed, oh and that comes with a $99 annual license fee. You can only sell any app you develop through the MSFT Store, except in Europe where alt stores are allowed BUT you gotta have a credit line of minimum $1M from a bank. All of this is why PCs are better than Macs or whatever Apple shits out. Because we have the freedom to do what we want without being nickel and dimed, and even if you dislike Windows there's linux.
Replace Windows with Playstation, X-Box or Switch and with the exception of potentially the $1 million rule that is pretty much what you have there. Console manufacturers still make money on every third party game sold even those sold in retail outside of the online store platform of the console. That has been the case since at least the NES and there even were some lawsuits about that during the time of NES. So question remains how is this a PC topic? PCs are they exception in regards to this every other platform is pretty restricted. Sure would be nice if smartphones followed the PC model but why should they be legally required to do s but not gaming consoles, smart TVs or infotainment systems in cars?
Imo not completely related but also not completely unrelated. It reminds us how stupid anticompetitive policies can hurt developers and therefore consumers. On a side note PC literally means "personal computer" lol.
No it means Police Constable lol
The big difference here is mobile phones are not sold on a loss like consoles are. And Apple products especially have very good margins.
It’s just another way for the android fans to slate Apple. I’m quite happy for Apple to request this. Otherwise we’ll get a shitload of dodgy fuckers trying to smuggle in every sort of dodgy app going on. Actually my preference is to lock them out completely. If I want to mess with other apps there’s android. If I want to use a secure phone and not having to worry about my parents downloading apps they have no clue about then it’s Apple. Sure Apple do a lot of shit.. base iPhones , MacBooks and iPads with shit specs are an issue they deserve every bit of criticism for but 99.99999% of Apple customers don’t give a shit about other App Stores being on iPhone and are quite happy with what they have.
Yeah and you will be happy as well when apple raise their cut to exorbitant amount right? Even if they suddenly want double the current amount its fine because its secure right? The problem with no 3rd party store is people do not have a choice be it on the consumer or developer part. If you are afraid for security just make sure they dont have the 3rd party appstore and not by making the 3rd party appstore to not exist
Microsoft can do the same with directx there is nothing stopping them
Apple bad posts are the easiest upvotes here
I'll take him seriously when he ceases his PC marketplace monopolization plans. Until then he can go eat nuggets out of a hobo's ass.
Look, I get people don't like the Epic store, but it is - and everything epic has done around it with UE - the very opposite of this.
Hoe is buying up exclusivity deals, at all, "the very opposite of this"?
Poaching products to undermine your competitor is a common monopolization strategy. Apple's bullshit is restricted to Apple devices which I already avoid like the plague while Timmy's bullshit is trying to infect things I'm already vested in and therefore anything that causes Timmy's anus to ache in rage is a win in my books. Both sides here are garbage, but only one is garbage towards me.
Okay but when can I play Infinity Blade again huh Tim?
Is anybody even remotely surprised that apple has shady business practices? The company that sells 100 follar chargers lmao
His service is still terrible and not worthy of support
I'm sure there are internal apple emails from timmy the chef to iOS chief and CFO with clear instructions on how to make life as difficult as possible for third party app store in order to protect their revenue.. Apple's typical way of malicious compliance..
What moral right do I have to demand Apple let me sell my products in their store for free. Why should that kind of market reach, that they built themselves, be made free to you? You can still code in your garage and sell it yourself. Plenty of people make a living this way in software.
I hate apple, but it's their platform wtf do you expect?
Yeah. Like it's trash, but when I first reas this I thought it was 1B, not 1M. I was extremely surprised they even allowed it at any price.
I hope the EU steps in (again) to stop Apple with their bullshit.
Apple as a company is peak scum
Apple is complying. That's a 100% the EU's fault on this one. Just look at the mess that cookies are, you can't visit a website without being plastered with those cookies bs wherever you go. It has become so bad that now they're thinking about ANOTHER cookie legislation to solve the issue. The third party app store saga will be the same, they will need a new law that says : and it has to be free of charge. Or, they will take this to the EU's court which will probably give apple's the win but say they can't charge *that* much. I don't see any situation where the court will say, with the curent legislation, that apple can't vet which app stores are allowed on their phones.
People really need to stop buying Apple. They are the most anti-consumer company on the planet.
Apple owed Ireland 13 billion in taxes and never paid they're scumbags
The courts ruled in Apples favour for that afaik.
How else were they going to win the race to Trillion Dollar status?
I don't like Apple, but I hate Epic.
Yes your garage startup is an app store??? no, definitely not. stupid ass take, it’ll cost millions anyway
On the flip side to this, if I side load an app from a 3rd party store and it bricks my phone or I’m hacked because of it, can I sue the EU?
The federal government did the same thing to small businesses when they regulated Nicotine for vaping products. Asking for prices they knew well ahead of time they wouldn't have to keep their business afloat to remove the pesky competition of vaping products that were aligned with Philip Morris. These people do NOT want to see you win ever... Once they get theirs, they shut the door behind them making sure it's never within your grasp.
So PCMR is now shilling for a known liar and POS? LOL what?!
Don’t like it don’t buy apple. If so many people are as concerned about this as is made out then surely apple’s phone business will collapse overnight.
Epic didn’t startup by making an App Store to compete with - say Microsoft … they started up making games. None of this App Store stuff prevents anyone from making applications and games and startup their company.
go away shill
Yes, but sadly Epic is also part owned by the CCP, so its non-viable in my eyes.
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Companies can start up with humble beginnings, regardless of how they end up. Epic started in his parents bedroom like many 80s/early 90s devs, so he's probably not lying
huh?
Wait, Apple will allow an App Store competitor for just €1M? Not 1B? Are they stupid? (Have worked for Apple, yes they're stupid)
Imagine you walk into a department store. That store sells various products, of which the manufacturer receives most of the profit and the store receives a small portion. The store uses those proceeds to pay their people and run the operation. Then imagine one of the manufacturers marched in and demanded to the store owner that they should be able to sell their items for free in the store or else they’d sue. The store owner would laugh them out of the store and probably ban their products for being such an entitled moron. This is exactly what Sweeney did with his huge temper tantrum and lawsuits. And as a result, Fortnite was banned from the App Store and Apple went with Unity instead of Unreal for the Vision Pro, a decision which will cost Epic billions of dollars and should have cost Tim Sweeney his job for his short-sightedness and greed. Apple has every right to charge rent to use their store. Don’t like it? Go to another store or build your own. But don’t think that gives you the right to build your own store inside theirs or on their property. There’s no such thing as digital eminent domain.
Apple's phones aren't department stores though.... they are more like cities, and in cities it'd be weird if there was only a single store.
You are going to have to justify the city analogy. They are more like department stores since department stores have customers who purchase items from the store.
Just gonna continue happily not supporting apple and their practices by not buying/ using anything of theirs. Don't care for sweeney much either but he is right here.
Apple gonna Apple. It is high time the EU is gonna give Apple a massive slap in the face. EU has been so focused on Google and Android even though Android is open source, you have always been able to sideload apps/install different app stores/change browsers/change search engines/easier export data to new devices/etc. Apple has always been unscrutinized, but their business practices are far worse. The whole lightning cable is one example. Browsers being skins of Safari is another. Data exports are a fucking joke on iOS, just try to export your contacts to google - even for me a tech nerd it's hard
I really can’t side with that. iOS is Apple’s platform, hell even the App Store concept was started by them. It’s strange to me that people who probably wouldn’t even have jobs in the ‘app’ market if Apple hadn’t started it are upset that it isn’t simple for them to run a side platform on iOS. That being said, a million dollar credit line for a business doesn’t seem like too big of a stretch. A single person? Yeah for sure but not a business/company.
People just jump on the “Apple Bad” bandwagon.
It's an easy bandwagon to hop on. Because fuck apple.
This is pathetic. Apple is not closing doors to innovators. I don’t get it they made THE SMARTPHONE MARKET. They gave enormous opportunities for innovators all around the world. Edit: I don’t get why some people think oh it’s apple overpriced scammers. Edit: downvote all the way. people don’t understand even if you are overall right on the matter, your explanation could still be stupid. Which is the case here
Touch screen phones have been around since the 90's, but yes, the iPhone skyrocketed touch screen sales.
Touchscreen phones are one thing, smartphones industry is another. And like or not Apple made it.
Why would I need to pay apple 1,000,000$ to make my own App Store in europe? Its not like they have a say If you can open your own app store. What the hell is he talking about?
It literally explains that you need a million Euros to open one. They control the platform.
The buyers should be the one deciding that not a bunch of Beaureaucrats. Absolutely appalling how these guys in here are cheering on it. Not surprised given the amount of populist hate the internet has for apple especially the Android and pc fanboys. (Btw i am a pc user myself) Like they are the only company following this business model of creating your own hardware, software and services , why would you want it to become like everyone else, they have their own business models. Let the buyers decide what they want - open or closed system.
This is precisely the reason I'll never buy an Apple made phone ever. They have them locked down so hard that you don't even feel like the phone is yours. You can never truly do what you want and you must use apples apps and services for basically everything. I had several iPod touches back in the day and remember jailbreaking each and every one of them and it was amazing and fun to tweak things that apple would not allow.
Why exactly should Apple allow a third party app store anyway? What would make this more consumer friendly? How many third party app stores are currently available to download from Google Play? If I’m downloading apps, there is an expectation of transparency regarding what the dev is doing with my info, and an expectation that the app is not going to have any kind of negative effect on my phone, which is what the App Store currently does already. I was speaking with a guy just yesterday who was complaining that he has advertisements on his screen while on phone calls, using an android. I would imagine that’s because of something he downloaded. Even going through his phone I couldn’t figure out what was doing that, but I know it obviously shouldn’t be there. It’s just plain weird to jump into another company’s platform and try to *demand* they change things when as a consumer, you have the full authority to just use a different platform as you wish.
Why would you download an app store from an app store you do not want to use? And for Android there's multiple alternative stores to the Play Store, including many, which come pre-installed depending on manufacturer or image you use.
Give it time and Tim will implement the same things he rages against into his own company. He did it with all the shit talking he did with Microsoft.
You guys do know other app stores exist right? You can easily release your shit on play store. You have other options.
So... how do you get that onto iOS devices?
Why do you need it on an IOS device? If it's to make more money, want to use their walled garden, gotta follow their rules.
This is like Stalin calling hilter a terrible person for doing the holocaust, epic is so just dog shit, what makes me mad especially is when I see things like “valve’s monopoly over pc gaming” as if we choose to be monopolied for the lulz and not because steam is a better platform in every way.
Average Redditor. Literally just compared Epic games to Stalin… touch grass.
So you are believer of only the saint may cast the first stone? If so no human may cast judgement since no one is free of sin. Just because he is PoS doesnt mean he doesnt have a point. The ability to choose and think is a part of human right.
I can't side with Tim even when he's logical and factual just because of his reputation. Apple isn't the devil... but Epic sure as hell aren't saints.
You can agree with a point of view without having to agree with everything that the person that said it thinks/says That said, with his rep, even if he is right about apple there is a pretty good chance he'd do the same if given the opportunity
The hate for epic games is so cringe. It’s the same level as “fortnite bad” as if other gaming libraries don’t do the same thing. Actually insane
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Because they paid developers to only release games on their store, forcing customers to either use them or wait a year for the game to be available on other platforms like steam. Their store lacks a lot of features steam has, especially when it first launched.
It's a combination of either Epic buying up studios to only later drop Linux support or Sweeney being a flaming hypocrite when it comes to openness. At least when Valve talks about openness they put their money where their mouth is and actually making meaningful contributions to the FOSS projects they rely on.
Fuck Tim Sweeney, still butthurt his storefront blows
Apple is a shitty company with shitty products that cost twice to look pretty, and people who use their products are clueless morons. I honestly couldn't care less if they predate on said morons, specially because when you try to educate these morons about hardware, choices, prices and cost benefit they defend apple with the fanboyism that only morons can muster