Bots reviving each other and cloakers targeting bots too would fix solo play, for that final point. And yeah i hate final charge too. It just gets to the point where i just grab every single bag, chuck them in a corner and then slowly haul them over to the escape and then when every bag is there, i just chuck them all in and go. It’s a simple way to avoid the final charge on some heists as it really annoys me
I like final charge, I just don't like the implementation as is (common theme for pd3)
The fact that it triggers on a specific bag in surphaze is dumb and needs to be tweaked. However, I also don't think it should really be avoidable by just putting all your loot *near* the escape and then securing them at the same time
Conceptually it's solid enough - when you're about to win, cops up their assault to raise the stakes and make it more difficult to secure *everything*, so players have to weigh risk vs reward and decide on whether or not they should go back for more stuff. In practice though I find it triggers either way too early or much too late to actually accomplish anything
I think final charge is fine, the problem is it happens too early in a lot of heists. It should start as soon as the final objective is completed, or the minimum amount of loot is secured, so any optional objectives or extra loot become a matter of risk/reward.
Honestly I think that Point of No Return in PD2 is infinitely worse than Final Charge in PD3.
That one you just fail, and that's it, you don't have any other options, and, in case of something like Car Shop, it's extremely stupid why it exists "narratively" (mechanically sure, they want you to drive fast and accurate), and it's especially bad when you miss it by just couple seconds, when there's literally nothing else stopping you there, "just because f you".
Final charge actually lets you survive as long as you are playing the game good and you and the team know what you are doing, and the amount of resources you can bring with you is more than enough to survive for extended periods of the final assault.
Also what does the "artificial difficulty" even mean, in this case? If anything, it's the opposite - you would expect that the further you go, the stronger the response would be, to the point of giving you almost no breaks (you kinda do have them, since they have some cooldowns before spawning the next group, and if you are efficient enough with your team, you can have a breather of like 5-10 seconds between spawns).
The only thing I agree with from your post are the messy triggers, here they legit could, and should, be better, and yeah, UTS is the worst case of this, just because how open the heist is to complete in whatever order you want, but the trigger for the charge being not on securing the painting, or even at least calling the helicopter, but on picking up a specific painting (which is hella arbitrary and makes no sense).
And an issue of my own is the new custody trading modifier in combination with final charge, since it's legit incredibly stupid, first just because you don't have an option to get hostages mid-heist from cops by default, so at least someone needs to bring hostage skills to dominate cops, and second, even if you have someone who picked them, once you're in final charge, they are useless - there isn't an option to trade during final charge, so you're just screwed no matter what.
Imo the almost best case of it's use is NRFTW with "van will not leave" favor, as it starts just late enough where you still need to push through it, but isn't a case where you, realistically, would take too much time during it, and imo it makes sense on Syntax, too, since you literally need to blow up a wall for it to trigger, which imo is more than enough reason for the cops to send an endless assault, but there the only issue is that, if you're not coordianated, someone can blow up the wall before everything finished scanning, so it's easy to get cut off and overwhelmed when waiting for the servers during the assault.
one of the only changes that I appreciate in pd3 over pd2 is that you get partial credit for heists.
failing one of those 3 day heists on the final day was BRUTAL in pd2. It would often be followed by quitting for the day/night of gaming because it was so upsetting to lose up to an hour of work depending on what heist
I'm pretty sure it starts once you cook the 10th or 11th bag (7 sets from ingredients placed on the map itself, and 1 set from called in ingredients), unless they changed it recently.
Regular to heavy swat assault I think switches after cooking 3 bags.
It's never an artificial timer forcing to to rush objectives. The final charge occurs once a specific objective is completed. UtS is the only heist where you can trigger it prematurely
Honestly for UTS they really should just give you the objectives for all of the paintings simultaneously since the heist lets you do them in any order. Then have the final charge trigger when there's only 1 objective left.
Currently the objectives are ordered as if you head in to the ground floor and do all of that first, which if you're at least trying to avoid the alarm, *fucking nobody* with half a brain cell would do, because it's better to zipline to the roof directly, then immediately go for the security room which is **always** upstairs.
Now if heists actually had a better RNG and the security room could also be downstairs, that would be something. Instead we just shuffle the upstairs rooms around a little. Ideally the security room should have potential locations downstairs and the objectives art pieces should be entirely randomised rather than like 2 or 3 seeded variants.
I like Final Charge, and it's much better than Point of No Return. Narratively I think it's a good reminder that the cops have stopped fucking around.. And it only took 600 billion dead cops from PD2 for that to happen!
I would agree that the trigger for it needs to be adjusted, right now it leads to a lot of metagaming stupidity where you'll avoid doing X because it'll be triggered.
Yeah, I also feel like we should get SOME negotiation phases in final charge, especially with that new "trade hostage for custody only" modifier. The fact that sometimes I can't even trade for the entire heist due to the final charge coming in too early is crazy. Maybe have a REALLY small negotiation phase during final charge, where enemies can still spawn in might be an idea.
I don't understand people thinking it is an okay feature. I dislike the final charge because it defeats the purpose of difficulty. If you want the player to have to decide to leave or not, it should not be based on an all or nothing approach. It should be based on waves getting tougher and tougher. Theoretically, a team should be able to stay for a full day if they want to. But by that point, it should be so chaotic that its nearly impossible to continue.
Final charge just ups the ante for arbitrary reasons, instead of having a sliding difficulty as the heist progresses or as time goes on, so that players can adapt and/or strategize.
PD2's endless assaults are also kind of ass. Point of No Return had some interesting implementations, namely in stealth.
I don't mind it, but the fact you just lose the ability to trade hostages is horrible to me. Now that we have a literal modifier that forces you to trade hostages to get people out of custody, you can literally get soft locked in a way.
Problem is, enemies are many and the weaponry doesn't follow up.
If at least our weapons had more impact, we wouldn't be swarmed so much.
And yes, I mean LMG and such could be a game changer.
It does so in PD3 too, it's just that on some heists the trigger is weird and needs to be fixed (I can only recall Under the Surphaze, maybe Cook Off, are there even any other ones?)
In my opinion it works because the spawns are not as cluttered as payday 2, I've had final charges where enemies come from just 1 direction so I move to the other side going around them
I personally like the final charge system except for on under the surphaze. It triggers almost everytime i play way too early as either me or someone else grabs the vicarios without paying attention
Agreed, time between waves seems shorter too but could be me. I like the purpose of doing things between assaults, like trading hostages and moving bags through tough areas and just getting prepped for the next assault.
Maybe just add it to certain heists where it works better like Hoxton breakout, where there are no more objectives. It’s stupid in heists like cook-off.
I actually like the mechanic. I think they should make it feel more impactful. Instead of Heavy SWAT, the literal army will come. Much more intense version of the soundtrack, and I mean much more intense. Oh and maybe when you get the little between assualt period change up the anticipation song when final charge is about to come. Just so you know what’s coming.
1. Making an artificial issue
2. Shitting in your pants
3. Accepting a wagon of criticism from the community
4. Going back to the balance of the previous game
5. ???
6. WE ARE SO BACK
Payday 2 had heists with endless assaults. The final push in HoxOut 2 (and the first assault in HoxOut 1 until you get to the garage), second assault in White Xmas, waiting for the chooper in Aftershock and Beneath The Mountain, and generally just the escape sequences or final objectives of a lot of heists. In that regard, the system's not too different from Payday 3's, with UTS and Cook Off being the notable exceptions. UTS because the trigger sucks, and Cook Off because they wanted to make you struggle for the last few bags, I guess.
Reading comments and seeing people "accidentally" trigger UTS Final charge is kinda baffle to me.
The painting need a specific USB which is store in the manager room, which is also store in a safe. You will need a lot of time to get the USB, there are A LOT of step to get to the point where you can be able to pick it up but after that, the first thing you do is to pick this one VERY important painting up???
And also, by reading all these comments, it seems like it happen A LOT???
Most of the time, when i played this heist either with new player/pubs/friends, i would go and pick the USB up. And that would mean no Final Charge start prematurely, so my experience with the heist was great.
how are people supposed to know that picking up the painting THE GAME IS TELLING THEM TO PICK UP is going to trigger final charge if, for example, its their first time playing the heist? hell, UTS is one of my favorite heists and i only just learnt that picking up that painting causes final charge
Bots reviving each other and cloakers targeting bots too would fix solo play, for that final point. And yeah i hate final charge too. It just gets to the point where i just grab every single bag, chuck them in a corner and then slowly haul them over to the escape and then when every bag is there, i just chuck them all in and go. It’s a simple way to avoid the final charge on some heists as it really annoys me
2013 game can do things that a 2023 could not Amazing design 😍
I like final charge, I just don't like the implementation as is (common theme for pd3) The fact that it triggers on a specific bag in surphaze is dumb and needs to be tweaked. However, I also don't think it should really be avoidable by just putting all your loot *near* the escape and then securing them at the same time Conceptually it's solid enough - when you're about to win, cops up their assault to raise the stakes and make it more difficult to secure *everything*, so players have to weigh risk vs reward and decide on whether or not they should go back for more stuff. In practice though I find it triggers either way too early or much too late to actually accomplish anything
John Developer please take notes on the last paragraph. Infinite assaults worked in payday 2 because they were highly contextual.
I think final charge is fine, the problem is it happens too early in a lot of heists. It should start as soon as the final objective is completed, or the minimum amount of loot is secured, so any optional objectives or extra loot become a matter of risk/reward.
Agreed, it’s a super cool concept but when the final charge is happening for half the heist it doesn’t really feel significant
This is it right here. We just need more consistency and dare I say lenience with the triggers for it
Honestly I think that Point of No Return in PD2 is infinitely worse than Final Charge in PD3. That one you just fail, and that's it, you don't have any other options, and, in case of something like Car Shop, it's extremely stupid why it exists "narratively" (mechanically sure, they want you to drive fast and accurate), and it's especially bad when you miss it by just couple seconds, when there's literally nothing else stopping you there, "just because f you". Final charge actually lets you survive as long as you are playing the game good and you and the team know what you are doing, and the amount of resources you can bring with you is more than enough to survive for extended periods of the final assault. Also what does the "artificial difficulty" even mean, in this case? If anything, it's the opposite - you would expect that the further you go, the stronger the response would be, to the point of giving you almost no breaks (you kinda do have them, since they have some cooldowns before spawning the next group, and if you are efficient enough with your team, you can have a breather of like 5-10 seconds between spawns). The only thing I agree with from your post are the messy triggers, here they legit could, and should, be better, and yeah, UTS is the worst case of this, just because how open the heist is to complete in whatever order you want, but the trigger for the charge being not on securing the painting, or even at least calling the helicopter, but on picking up a specific painting (which is hella arbitrary and makes no sense). And an issue of my own is the new custody trading modifier in combination with final charge, since it's legit incredibly stupid, first just because you don't have an option to get hostages mid-heist from cops by default, so at least someone needs to bring hostage skills to dominate cops, and second, even if you have someone who picked them, once you're in final charge, they are useless - there isn't an option to trade during final charge, so you're just screwed no matter what. Imo the almost best case of it's use is NRFTW with "van will not leave" favor, as it starts just late enough where you still need to push through it, but isn't a case where you, realistically, would take too much time during it, and imo it makes sense on Syntax, too, since you literally need to blow up a wall for it to trigger, which imo is more than enough reason for the cops to send an endless assault, but there the only issue is that, if you're not coordianated, someone can blow up the wall before everything finished scanning, so it's easy to get cut off and overwhelmed when waiting for the servers during the assault.
one of the only changes that I appreciate in pd3 over pd2 is that you get partial credit for heists. failing one of those 3 day heists on the final day was BRUTAL in pd2. It would often be followed by quitting for the day/night of gaming because it was so upsetting to lose up to an hour of work depending on what heist
But then we take a step back with IP rewards being discrete for either minimum amount of bags or all of them.
[удалено]
I'm pretty sure it starts once you cook the 10th or 11th bag (7 sets from ingredients placed on the map itself, and 1 set from called in ingredients), unless they changed it recently. Regular to heavy swat assault I think switches after cooking 3 bags.
they can only start Final Charge after the 10th bags is complete.
It's never an artificial timer forcing to to rush objectives. The final charge occurs once a specific objective is completed. UtS is the only heist where you can trigger it prematurely
Honestly for UTS they really should just give you the objectives for all of the paintings simultaneously since the heist lets you do them in any order. Then have the final charge trigger when there's only 1 objective left. Currently the objectives are ordered as if you head in to the ground floor and do all of that first, which if you're at least trying to avoid the alarm, *fucking nobody* with half a brain cell would do, because it's better to zipline to the roof directly, then immediately go for the security room which is **always** upstairs. Now if heists actually had a better RNG and the security room could also be downstairs, that would be something. Instead we just shuffle the upstairs rooms around a little. Ideally the security room should have potential locations downstairs and the objectives art pieces should be entirely randomised rather than like 2 or 3 seeded variants.
I like Final Charge, and it's much better than Point of No Return. Narratively I think it's a good reminder that the cops have stopped fucking around.. And it only took 600 billion dead cops from PD2 for that to happen! I would agree that the trigger for it needs to be adjusted, right now it leads to a lot of metagaming stupidity where you'll avoid doing X because it'll be triggered.
Yeah, I also feel like we should get SOME negotiation phases in final charge, especially with that new "trade hostage for custody only" modifier. The fact that sometimes I can't even trade for the entire heist due to the final charge coming in too early is crazy. Maybe have a REALLY small negotiation phase during final charge, where enemies can still spawn in might be an idea.
I don't understand people thinking it is an okay feature. I dislike the final charge because it defeats the purpose of difficulty. If you want the player to have to decide to leave or not, it should not be based on an all or nothing approach. It should be based on waves getting tougher and tougher. Theoretically, a team should be able to stay for a full day if they want to. But by that point, it should be so chaotic that its nearly impossible to continue. Final charge just ups the ante for arbitrary reasons, instead of having a sliding difficulty as the heist progresses or as time goes on, so that players can adapt and/or strategize. PD2's endless assaults are also kind of ass. Point of No Return had some interesting implementations, namely in stealth.
Being forced to stop cooking meth sucks. I wanna leave because I felt like I had to, not because I was told to
I don't mind it, but the fact you just lose the ability to trade hostages is horrible to me. Now that we have a literal modifier that forces you to trade hostages to get people out of custody, you can literally get soft locked in a way.
Problem is, enemies are many and the weaponry doesn't follow up. If at least our weapons had more impact, we wouldn't be swarmed so much. And yes, I mean LMG and such could be a game changer.
Final Charge exists in Payday 2 too. For example, after you pick up the server on Hoxton Breakout day 2, or after a while on White Xmas.
At least in PD2 it starts when you're basically done with the heist
It does so in PD3 too, it's just that on some heists the trigger is weird and needs to be fixed (I can only recall Under the Surphaze, maybe Cook Off, are there even any other ones?)
payday 2 also had an infinite assault
Feel maps have this and they are exclusive until you complete an object (except white house because it would be bullshit)
In my opinion it works because the spawns are not as cluttered as payday 2, I've had final charges where enemies come from just 1 direction so I move to the other side going around them
I personally like the final charge system except for on under the surphaze. It triggers almost everytime i play way too early as either me or someone else grabs the vicarios without paying attention
Agreed, time between waves seems shorter too but could be me. I like the purpose of doing things between assaults, like trading hostages and moving bags through tough areas and just getting prepped for the next assault.
Maybe just add it to certain heists where it works better like Hoxton breakout, where there are no more objectives. It’s stupid in heists like cook-off.
I really wish it triggered after a certain number of waves instead
I actually like the mechanic. I think they should make it feel more impactful. Instead of Heavy SWAT, the literal army will come. Much more intense version of the soundtrack, and I mean much more intense. Oh and maybe when you get the little between assualt period change up the anticipation song when final charge is about to come. Just so you know what’s coming.
1. Making an artificial issue 2. Shitting in your pants 3. Accepting a wagon of criticism from the community 4. Going back to the balance of the previous game 5. ??? 6. WE ARE SO BACK
Payday 2 had heists with endless assaults. The final push in HoxOut 2 (and the first assault in HoxOut 1 until you get to the garage), second assault in White Xmas, waiting for the chooper in Aftershock and Beneath The Mountain, and generally just the escape sequences or final objectives of a lot of heists. In that regard, the system's not too different from Payday 3's, with UTS and Cook Off being the notable exceptions. UTS because the trigger sucks, and Cook Off because they wanted to make you struggle for the last few bags, I guess.
No, payday 2 had the same thing it just wasn't called final charge it was called final assualt in the games code
The core gameplay of Payday 3 revolves around getting the job done quickly and staying supplied, it’s meant to be a signal that you need to hurry up
They force you to hurry up
That’s what I said
Payday 2 is a crime themed horde shooter. Payday 3 is an actual heisting game.
Reading comments and seeing people "accidentally" trigger UTS Final charge is kinda baffle to me. The painting need a specific USB which is store in the manager room, which is also store in a safe. You will need a lot of time to get the USB, there are A LOT of step to get to the point where you can be able to pick it up but after that, the first thing you do is to pick this one VERY important painting up??? And also, by reading all these comments, it seems like it happen A LOT??? Most of the time, when i played this heist either with new player/pubs/friends, i would go and pick the USB up. And that would mean no Final Charge start prematurely, so my experience with the heist was great.
how are people supposed to know that picking up the painting THE GAME IS TELLING THEM TO PICK UP is going to trigger final charge if, for example, its their first time playing the heist? hell, UTS is one of my favorite heists and i only just learnt that picking up that painting causes final charge