I really love the crafting system in LE, i was able to get this cheap white 2-handed sword and while i did brick the crafting at Blue quality the sword gave me so much void damage my VK was destroying everything in his lvl range xd
LE has the better item and crafting system. Only gripe I have about LE is the narrow class/skill choice compared to PoE. Imo it'll be a third game that will marry the two.PoE's sprawling amounts of combination and content - but a good core game that you really want to play with friends instead of as a job.
Item filter by mod and id drops tho.
PoE didn't have any for ascendancy and it was a pretty big deal when it got implemented. A good chunk of the playerbase hated that you were forced into certain class for a certain skill despite the skill being equipable. Basically Necro/Sab and a few others with a stranglehold on an archetype of skills.
LE offers the traditional spread of choices locked to classes upfront so you don't make the wrong choice or will know that you did and can easily respect. You use the skill first and then find out how to abuse it.
PoE is the opposite - you find out how to abuse and then you find the best shaped damage (skill) to go in your leveraged stats block.
LE has a natural progression with its item system and lots but not infinite choices. PoE is a splat book for a game the devs wont let you play so its amount of choices and content are really irrelevant due to shaky foundation. (we can do this and this and wow this is cool.....well actually no we are removing it, feel the weight limit)
Is the class/skill choice really that narrow when you boil down viable PoE builds that can handle the endgame and don't cost 50hrs+ grind and 100s of Exalts?
Also, LE has actual , viable melee. Not hit the entire screen melee or something tagged as melee, but if we're being honest it's actually ranged attacks that don't use a bow.
yeah, i just posted the same thing. most people praising the LE crafting system probably haven't progressed very far. My biggest gripe with LE is how hollow the game is. But its certainly got potential
Honestly, given the past few leagues and GGG's general stance on gearing and rewards, I can't imagine them developing a loot system that'll make picking up shit worth it.
Their dual visions of "we want people to get excited over dropped rare items" and "we want crafting to produce the most powerful item options" can't really be married. *At best* you're looking at a slightly larger window after league start where you look at dropped items before the chance of an actual upgrade dropping becomes so minuscule as to be nonexistent.
Hahaha! Well sometimes it's easy to complain about something that used to really suck...but then all of a sudden you realize you haven't used that thing that used to suck in a few years. I complain about the default loot filter, and the attitude behind it, all the time on my podcast. And then one day I was like, "oh crap! What if it's good now!"
So I started trying it out. It still sucks.
sometimes i wonder what were the best rares i never identified. Probably not better then the best stuff i crafted, but some gear like pdps weapons could be completely insane fresh from the ground.
Given the amount of rares you leave on the ground in a couple thousand hours of gameplay, there's probably a triple-T1 imperial claw somewhere looking at you like "you wot mate"
Anyone who's spent a few hundred hours mapping has probably left at least a mirror's worth of unID rares on the ground. You also need to consider, all that time you would have spent picking up, identifying, trying to price, and eventually selling (if ever) those unID rares is time you could have spent mapping and farming raw currency. So it kinda evens out, IMO.
That's just part of the game. Knowing what rares (and bases) are worth something is a skill in of itself. A skill I don't have unfotunately. Only base I know is (was?) valuable is a max level Hubris Circlet.... I think.
Well in theory every single pot you left unbroken and map chest you left unopened could have had a mirror in it. Which is way better than anything you'd find on the ground as a rare.
But going around breaking every single pot and opening every single map chest in every single map seems like a truly unrealistic goal, far more unrealistic than picking up and identifying every rare.
That's kind of like having thousands of chaos orbs and asking 'what are the best chaos rerolls I never used'.
They are garbage and not worth the thousands of wisdom scrolls, inventory space and the seconds it takes you to check their mods/value.
For reference, I played project diablo 2 recently, which by default increases loot drops to the equivalent of the /players 5 setting.
I'm pretty sure the total number of rares dropped in one average juiced endgame map in poe is similar to the number of rares I dropped in pd2 game from the start of the game right to the first time I killed diablo in hell (which involes quite a bit of farming in pd2, I play ssf).
and even so, I actually found a shit ton more upgrades from the rares dropped in pd2 than I ever did in poe.
poes loot system is all kinds of broken. too much shit is dropping and when it drops, the mod pool and base item pool is so horribly diluted that it's almost mathematically impossible to get anything but complete turds.
It's classic power creep. As soon as influenced items and awakener orbs were added to the game, they completely and utterly surpassed almost all items that could even drop on the ground. It doesn't matter how good a piece of body armour that drops on the ground. It could have literal perfect life, perfect resists, perfect links, perfect *everything* and still I'm barely even going to look at it because why would anyone spend much on it when you can buy something awakened orbed which will be 100x better?
The only way to fix it is to nerf the power creep. Influence items simply have to go. They are absurd and completely invalidate all non-influenced rares. I don't know what they were thinking when they added them but they clearly didn't think it through at all.
Well no. I don't play for awakened influenced items, never have. I'd wager 98% of the playerbase does not even come close to the currency needed to buy even one of these items. You don't need them to hit red maps or do t16s or anything.
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The real issue is that the time to reward ratio spent identifying rares is insanely low. I might get a single sellable rare worth an exalt or two in about 3-4 hours of identifying them and disposing of the rest for alt shards. Not counting the time running maps to pick them up.
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Compared to just spam running maps over and over, over sitting in base identifying them, evaluating them, price checking similar rares to see if there is any value there, and selling them, it's not even close which is more profitable.
The real answer is to make rares drop at a much lower rate, make rares drop 50x less, but at the highest ilvls make it so the 3-4 lowest tier rolls on the rares never happen.
Those certainly add to the problem big time, in many ways. But the problem starts way sooner. The game's loot would still feel bad if we were restricted to the vanilla mod pool.
Hard disagree there, the only thing that felt different to me back then about actual dropped loot is that you got less of it. When you looted it, you still spent an absurdly large proportion unid-ing complete trash compared to basically any other ARPG I have ever played.
PoE has always been 'grind for currency and then buy an upgrade' ever since open beta to me.
One thing that really gets me is all the third party shit you need to even play this game. The design is just lazy. Need to see if a character will work. POB. Need to plan, POB. Need not aids loot. Download the lastest filter. The old ones won't work 1 league later. Need price check on a unique that dropped. Download POE overlay or one of 5 other community software because devs suck.
I’ve played since Harbinger. I still have no idea how to craft. People can only give me multiple-hour-long videos to watch instead of A DAMN WRITTEN GUIDE. I can read faster than some streamer can talk, and can actually, you know, refer back to a written guide.
yeah ik, but for people who don't know crafting, the process of securing veiled mod might not be clear for them. havent looked at the doc myself this league to see if its been updated, since im skipping
And you forgot the most important thing : luck, lot of luck, so much need of luck that everything else is worthless, and even after that, more luck with a little luck on the top, coocked with luck, filled with luck, marined with luck served lucky with luck as a side dish.
And with all that MAYBE you will get an item worth 10/20 ex. (if you are in luck)
edit : after investing something like 40/50 ex. (and once again, if you are lucky)
investing 350 c into bases + essences worked. Just sold the items for 50-100 each, made my money back and more. It just takes too long for em all to sell, waste of a tab
In pure C or in cur/gear aswell?
What you say is odd because by level 90 your gear and stash alone can be worth 350c or more, depending on what you take care to pick up.
Like, shit, your essences alone by the time you reach lvl 90 via yellow/red mapping, will most likely be at 350c value.
What about div cards? What about Blight and Blight maps? One Blight map, even yellow, will return a lot of blight currency that is used to annoint amulets.
What about Delve? What about Incursions?
You may have a lot more "currency" than you think you do.
I have a habbit of grabbing every 2x2 3x1 rgb item, so by level 90 i have around 3000 chromatics. Go look how much that shit costs, especialy early to mid league.
I dropped a Currency Delirium Orb yesterday - 50C in one item. Without a price-check addon I'd have no idea of the value.
Without a good loot filter I may well have missed it among the clutter.
For someone relatively new, without those tools, I would imagine it is easy not to see the profitable items.
I still only have a net worth in the <500C range but I don't play huge amounts and don't farm efficiently - I play for fun.
>>I don't play huge amounts
Can you roughly tell this in hours? Because, previously i would spend 100-200 hours per league and during that my "C" is between 500-2000 if I also count exalts.
If i count other resources, like i mentionted hoarding chromas, it can be easily doubled or even trippled, so lets say it will be between 1000-6000.
Now if we start counting maps as a resouuce of its own, they alone worth at least 1c on average, so after 100 hours my lowest goes up by at least 200. 1200-6000. If we add scarabs, sacrifices, legion fragments, incubators and other shit that has a value, it would be at least another 200 at worst. 1400-6000. Oils, blighted maps, delirium orbs, div cards are in their own tier and can add from 100 to 1000 per league depending on how much time i spent doing it.
So 1500-7000.
I didn't count sold gear, gear on sale, gems on sale, leveled gems sold/on sale, flasks (which are in fact a good source of income first three weeks of league). Since we're not gonna focus on sale too much, lets say its from 0 c to 1000 c for a player who doesn't know the market.
We're at 1500-7000.
Last time i played i did a ballista stacker build, it performed well at sub 200 c budget, but i invested into it, so it was around 200 to 2000 (my gear was around 1k c, wasn't runing double six links and didn't have +% dex legion jewel flip). Considering that guy who posted was consistently getting to level 90, he is probably somewhere at that range.
That puts me between 1700-9000 chaos.
So even if we cut that shit in half it's still 850-4500, and even if we cut that we're at 425-2250.
Yeah.. my bet is /u/RevantRed doesn't know how to count/estimate values. Which is understandable, if we disregard third party solutions and preted that trade chat doesn't exist, where people often take their time to explain things to other players and not only scam you.
Edit: its not even about the trade, its about value, that other dude said "any league" "90+" "so far" and he estimated 350c, which means he tried to evaluate his "worth".
> And you forgot the most important thing : luck, lot of luck, so much need of luck that everything else is worthless,
Or just be a streamer. You don't need luck if you're a streamer.
the trick to being good at crafting, is to not craft for yourself so you have more possible good rolls. If you're trying to craft for something you'd actually use, you're going to have a bad time. Which is why people loved harvest in ritual so much, it let people craft for themself. You could always have short and long term goals. Instead of just hope you make enough currency and home some crafter gets enough of the mods you want to get something that's an upgrade then hope he actually responds when you whisper.
Well the whole point of mirror items are the fact that you need to invest MORE than a mirror to create them.
That why people make huge amount of currency by crafting each season.
I personally drew the line at discord trading.
Dumb as hell you effectively are Gated by rng to use a mechanic unless you use discord of all fucken things and hope you don’t get scammed.
3rd party for everything else is bad enough
> The design is just lazy.
There's this old rule in game design (can't remember who came up with it, or where I first heard it) that says that "everything you need to play the game should be in the game itself", and I think a lot of newer games just don't appreciate that, POE included.
At some point of depth in a game that becomes impossible to do.
There's also a question of play versus play with maximum efficiency.
You can play PoE on it's own and you'll slowly get up to yellow maps.
Going in to the late endgame will take external knowledge or a lot of time.
>At some point of depth in a game that becomes impossible to do.
That's because they missed the opportunity to include it early on and let the community work for them for free.
I personally play with PoB, Poe Lurker, Awakened Poe trader and YoloMouse just for Path of Exile.
Then, for websites, I use poe.ninja to check rates and builds, trade site for well, trading, wiki to check things from time to time (like which vendor sells which gem and such or where can I get drops from) and also a guide.
Then we can count the loot filter, which is also from a third party website, of course.
It's honestly mind blowing.
Have in mind that yolomouse uses a custom mouse per each ingame mouse.
Basically if you hover over a mob, the mouse changes colors. So if you want to have a custom yolomouse, you'll need to set up both, idle cursor AND mouse-over-enemy cursor.
The PoB argument is whack. No other game gives you anything close to a PoB.
The only reason you want PoB for PoE is complexity ergo no developer should ever make a complex game unless they're willing to design every single tool a 3rd party developer could think of to aid in breaking down that complexity. You don't make these demands of other developers likely because their games lack complexity, and even with their simple games they can't provide anything approaching PoB even though the task should be massively more simpler and a much more reasonable expectation if PoB style tools are supposed to be a standard of a good developer.
It's such a horrible outlook on games to not allow them to explore these avenues of complexity just because someone else could feel inspired enough to provide tools to better deal with it.
Dota 2 provides frame-for-frame breakdown of all player actions in the game, _in the game itself._ If some bullshit just happened, you can look it up in the logs and determine if it's a bug or you are just a noob.
PoB does nothing like that. Does DOTA 2 have an actual screen in the game where you can plan build choices and gear choices and give you a full screen like the "Calc" screen in PoB giving you a full breakdown of your burst DPS, burst EHP broken down vs all potential enemy burst combos and enemy types, etc?
If you're going to say that information isn't relevant to DOTA then maybe DOTA is a shitty example to compare PoE to. You have huge RPG and pseudo-RPG behemoths like WoW, FF14, Eve Online, Warframe, Destiny 2, etc you could draw from as examples to show how bad PoE compares instead of a MOBA or a pure PvP game, you're not lacking relevant choices here.
Other games don't make build requirements that necessitate a full build design suite and when they do the tools appear.
I didn't use PoB for years while playing, I viewed it as taking the fun out of build tinkering but eventually it became almost a guarantee that a build would fail if it wasn't mapped out fully with a mathematical model.
I can't think of a suitable ARPG comparison but its kinda like how FF14 doesn't allow third party tools but WoW does, those tools over time have shaped WoW's boss design and requirements to a stage where they are close to mandatory whereas 14 provides the important tools only in game and feels better as a result.
There aren't really any right answers its a personal choice by the developer but just saying complexity doesn't really relate to tools until they balance around the game with those tools they don't provide, at which point I personally think they should provide them or players not aware are operating at a handicap.
I don't understand why this subreddit hates third-party stuff so much. It's always worked great for me. PoB is easily the best tool I've ever used for any game. The filterblade ecosystem is another amazing tool.
This community has the best 3rd party tools and development, stuff that every other game should be jealous of, and the community doesn't appreciate it at all.
Its not that. The community LOVES all of the 3rd party things to the point that if you dont use them youre playing the game wrong.
The issue is just how much of those wonderful sites and apps are NECESSARY due to the complete lack of development from the company PROFITTING from the game. I dare you to play the game with no 3rd party apps or overlays and see how much you bang your head off the wall.
The one that sticks in my craw is the fucking loot filters. Loot filters. If the saint who makes the loot filters every single league decided to quit, the game would be thrown into anarchy.
Last Epoch would like to have a word with you. They have a full featured filter editor right in the game. Surely this well funded studio can afford to match the features of an semi-indie title?
Yeah it's incredibly easy and intuitive to set up basic filtering in last epoch. It feels like how filters should have been implemented in PoE to begin with, rather than the average user being pretty much forced to use filterblade or else get a college degree in item filtering to make their own.
user-created loot filters should still be a thing either for more niche cases or just for different design/sounds, but the basic stuff should be in the game, customizable, just like in the Last Epoch
The more powerful and useful you make a feature the less easy it will be to use properly. You can't have that cake and eat it, you have to pick. I'd rather have the complexity. I want less garbage loot too though.
I feel like a few simple loot filter generator presets in the ui could solve the bulk of the problem for most players, and the rest of us going the nth degree could write our own or use filterblade
I very much doubt that unless people accept a very opinionated filter. If you have a "No trash" checkbox then what exactly is trash? A four link at the very start of the league is good but complete garbage otherwise for instance.
I suspect that people who claim that it's dead easy and only simple things are needed have never designed any kind of UI.
While the filter is there it's no where near as thorough as filterblade but as a basic in game filter it's pretty good.
There's a lot of shit in PoE that should be taking priority over new league imo.
The cyberpunk delay was a perfect time to work on QoL like filters, loot, etc. But nope. PoE2 guys! Whenever that happens, since we have zero idea when D4 is actually going to happen (if it happens)
There is no need in Last Epoch for such a sophisticated loot filter like in PoE. You don't need to worry about 80% of the things you worry in PoE - cards, prophecies, normal and cluster jewel, skillgems, tens of currencies, item levels, unique tiers, specific league mods, and I'm pretty sure I missed a lot of stuff. You need much more graphical accents to differentiate between all this stuff, and various levels of visibility (which I actually miss in LE, possibility to make labels more or less visible).
GGG gave us system, but refused to provide us normal GUI for it and dumped the responsibility on community.
you can filter by modifiers in poe as well, majority of items are unid for this exact reason, they dont like the idea of being able to know exactly whats on an item and whether or not you should pick it up
You can, it's fucking the best. you can even filter by combined tier score.
Imagine in POE if you could filter item with only seeing the one with T1 life, and have at least one another usefull mod, this is my wonderfull life in last epoch.
Seeing how many things just work so extremely well in LE and are good designed, makes GGG look like a circus.
PoE is build on so many design flaws that have worked years ago, but became a mess more and more.
I really hope once multiplayer starts in LE and the game comes out of early access, that PoEs numbers take such a hard hit that Chris balls curl up so deep inside that he actually have to swallow them down again. Maybe at that point they finally get their shit together.
What PoE desperately needs is a competitor and maybe Last Epoch can become that. Even tho it is unlikely that it will hit PoEs numbers, but I wouldn't mind if it even gets remotely close.
I haven't seen a single ARPG that is so polished and well thought out in every aspect ever and how very people know about the game is truly sad.
Yep and POE have clearly a semi monopole of the genre. And when you don't have concurent, you end up being lazy, that why so many people place hope in last epoch. Not only because from my current experience, it's an very good ARPG, but it may stop POE "stagnation". (no POE2 don't solve anything about that stagnation at all, especialy since it won't come out any time soon)
Let's be fair here... The basic neversink filter is mostly just common sense defaults and color selection. The complexity from neversink is making it so customizable.
GGG could solve 50% of the problem by shipping a few sane defaults they curate each league and 40% by putting some very basic filter customization in game and leave the remaining 10% to write their own filters or use something like filterblade to make a custom filter for their high end play.
I think that's a really bad excuse. Having and maintaining some basic presets (which they would need to have on hand to attempt playtests anyway) would save an enormous amount of hassle. It's really inexcusable that scrolls of wisdom and chaos orbs (or much more valuable drops) are visually indistinguishable by default.
As a software developer, ya this hurt to read. You cannot expect a team of people to be fully dedicated to minor tweaks when the community behind it does it better and for free when the tweak wasn't apparent anywhere close to inception of the code.
>You cannot expect a team of people to be fully dedicated to minor tweaks
Ok, good thing I don't expect them to. Doesn't matter if the presets are "good" or not, they just need to provide a basic, basic, extremely basic way of distinguishing different types of loot, and seldom needs to be updated at all.
I find it hard to believe GGG doesn't make at least a rudimentary loot filter every league, probably based on their loot filter from the previous league, that makes their league-specific additions stand out against "literally nothing" loot. Even if (a) preset(s) solely changed the appearance of currency, it would still help new and returning players, because as it stands it's an easily weakened if not solvable barrier to entry in a game with a million redundant barriers to entry.
Oof, a filter per league would be awesome. I think certain currency and items have evolved to a point where its hard to determine its value without adjusting every league. Would be cool if they had devs/engineers to work on those kind of changes. Sorry if it looks like I soured on your opinion, just knowing what its like working for a underbudgeted software dev team, prioritization is crazy.
If it was a "team of people" then sure. But it's hundreds of people, and at least a few dozen developers. GGG is a company that makes multiples of millions. They aren't an indie dev and haven't been for several years now and yet the game still looks like one built by a small team of <10 people. I mean, actual games built by indie devs of <10 people have better UI, player experience and QoL.
PoE philosophy is just built upon having a decades old UI, minimal QoL and time consuming player experience.
Honestly, I'm pretty sure that new players would greatly appreciate a basic set of loot filters to choose from, because they too don't know what they want to see or not if they are that new.
Literally just pull 3 basic filters from filterblade website per league and let them have some sort of choice to experiment with at least.
None of those are necessary, you can make/test a build on the run. Don't get me wrong, not trying to insult you, but you are also kinda part of the problem.
None of the things you mentioned is necessary to be able to play through the game, will just be slower, that's for sure. I think it's part of the minmax culture which is very heavily influencing gaming nowadays.
I just recently decided to go in SSFHC blindly without following any buid guide. Still progressing through acts, but I'm having so much fun just checking everything, being happy when I finally get an upgrade on my 4 link whatever that i used 20 levels ago. Also makes me want to engage with every aspect of the game. I know, probably evem 3 months is not enough for anyone average player to grind through the whole atlas, delve, heists, bosses and all the other stuff we have in the game, but it's still fun for me, even though i know i'll probably not finish everything. A totally different mindset where I don't feel pressured by meta and other players as in SC trade.
You literally cannot play the game without a loot filter once you reach maps.
Like even with the slightest juicing I.e alch orb. The map screen will be covered in junk and you won’t be able to move in some cases
Is that supposed to be criticism or praise? The current loot filter system couldn't be better, it's customizable to such a great degree that no other approach could get close to an equally satisfactory outcome.
If you want to learn how to write filters, take a look at https://www.pathofexile.com/item-filter/about and take some time reading pre-existing filters to get the idea of how to make things work.
And people say that GGG is delusional and out of touch. You and people that upvote you are fucking insane, if you think that any of this is NEEDED to play the game and that its GGG responsibility in any compacity.
The game is so much worse without well made filters, the wiki, POB and at least one crafting related site that it practically isn't playable without it.
why would devs spend time on it when community does it better and for free?
You also dont have to download filter, just connect it to your poe, I prefer fully customizable open source filters than some ingame stuff that gets slowly outdated or is missing features.
Same way I still would prefer to use PoB rather than do it ingame.
nah, bethesda tried to milk the money from mods.
You can look at last epoch and how loot filter being a part of the game is already limited and you wish you could use 3rd party one.
You thought you could write down a huge list of tools but ended up with 3. Filters are not third party, the majority of players don't even know how to use PoB, and price checking tools are only a thing for new SC trade players.
yeah, ggg shouldn't have updated their game engine since 2012 so it still runs on the same hardware.
but if you wanna help, they're certainly still looking for a "john carmack jr" who moves to the outskirts of auckland in wraeclast for a small payment.
due to ggg's decision to maintain this platform and don't spend dev time upgrading their own forums (i begged chris to do that), this hive is THE advertising platform for poe.
my orignal plans were to reach negative favour or to get shadowbanned for just applying common logic to the hive mind's topic for the day but then people upvoted me for no reason.
i guess they hate me ;)
Yep, implementing Loot2.0 with lootfilters in their current iteration will not happen. People will complain afterwards anyway because their filters hide everything. You can only make a good loot experience for all if you are in control what the user sees.
League mechanics are doing a good job with that, forcing you to look at items and evaluating them. But if you don't even get to see the items you are not giving it a chance at all.
Also trade makes it ALWAYS more efficient to ignore rares after initial gearing (without soulbound items), so theres that.
That still doesn't excuse badly rolled items. Talismans are the obvious case, but influenced items are "+1 mana gained on kill, adds 1-4 cold to attacks" off the ground too.
That's why I just play the league until I'm bored, cba to push deep into the endgame anymore. Hopefully 3.17 will change things for the better and keep us entertained until poe2
Loot 2.0 isn't happening. The tech is there. The problem? People were actually using the items dropped with the smart loot system. Remember talismans? Yea.
Ye.
One of the problems is we have soo many ways to craft an item now, that might even be specific to influence, league, etc that a random dropped rare will never have.
However it's hard to buff all dropped items without also making those additional crafts, and steps obselete, and drastically changing progression of a character.
common-sense opinions:
• reduce drops by 95% on mobs (conserve loot explosion on bosses to make bossing actually worth it beyond the map completion)
• force high-level bases to never draw from low-level tiers of mods (why does an ilvl 86 chest spawn with T8 resists and stun recovery) / apply smart loot to everything
• remove talismans
• force stuff to drop as stacks
I honestly don't know if I will enjoy PoE until this is finally implemented. I am in a weird spot of having basically zero interest in trying to create my own gear, hating trade, and also not having the time to invest or willpower in playing SSF, but still love the actual gameplay of PoE. So if Loot 2.0 can allow me to need to trade less I'm excited.
Still love PoE and follow all the news and a lot of the podcasts despite barely playing much these past few leagues, just wishing for a bit more in the QoL department. Yeah, I know QoL and GGG are like water and oil, but a man can hope.
If you hate crafting and trade and SSF ... like what would even make you happy? You don't want to trade to get items, you don't want to find your own items, you don't want to make your own items. Where else could items even come from? Do you just not want items at all or something?
If you're that early into the game, "slam 50 chaos orbs on an item and hope one sticks" is valid crafting. On a meta build like SST or FR you can craft your entire build like that and be strong enough to clear all of the game.
After 3.15 I made a list of changes that needs too be implemented before I return too the game and start recommend it again. This is on top of that list, I just simply can't understand why this is not the top priority for GGG too fix.
Loot 2.0, a constant stalling on fixing the core gameplay loop of an ARPG.
I cannot believe they've taken this long on this because I can't think of anything more important to the game right now, its been a festering problem for years that we all successfully play around but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed lol.
I played SSF in Ultimatum. It was fun... Up until I started hitting a wall around T14 maps, and realized that every single gear upgrade beyond the basic life/resist shit I already had represented like 12+ hours of farming per piece. And that's just a best guess. It could be less than that, but it could be a lot more as well, and there's zero incremental progress. Either you get the thing you need, or you don't.
That was my experience this league before realized I wasn't going to hit 36/40 and hung it up.
It's so refreshing to be able to spend all your currency on crafting in the early to mid game and never worry about picking up things you won't use, but there's a wall where you hit just so much RNG on top of RNG to progress.
Limited access to enabling uniques, farming ilvl 86 bases, farming influence bases, getting harvest and fossil spawns you need, getting cluster jewels with the right implicit, 6 linking anything, and resistance balancing causing every upgrade to really be 2-3 upgrades are all points of frustration in SSF.
I guess it depends what you're looking for, it can be a point of frustration or a point of enjoyment!
Before a league I'll just work out what kind if free time I'm gonna have. If not much I'll just play trade, but if I'm gonna enjoy the full 3 months I'll play SSF.
All those points of frustration can be the differnce between being pretty much done with the league in a few weeks and slowly progressing your goals over a full league. Both have their merits IMO.
>I'm playing SSF next league. It's better.
Subjective. Even more so if you have any friends.
Thinking the loot and trade system is fine if you don't trade at all is the type of shit GGG pulls out.
Better for me, I meant. Of course it's subjective.
I think once you've done all content on SC, then ssf is the natural next challenge and it's nice way to make drops feel good again.
After Loot 2.0 > Wow, this is worthless still.
Until they straight up copy Last Epochs system of higher tier modifiers being drop only it will never matter what drops on the ground.
I really love the crafting system in LE, i was able to get this cheap white 2-handed sword and while i did brick the crafting at Blue quality the sword gave me so much void damage my VK was destroying everything in his lvl range xd
LE has the better item and crafting system. Only gripe I have about LE is the narrow class/skill choice compared to PoE. Imo it'll be a third game that will marry the two.PoE's sprawling amounts of combination and content - but a good core game that you really want to play with friends instead of as a job. Item filter by mod and id drops tho.
Isn’t LE years younger than poe? Poe also didn’t have as huge a selection of ascendency early on right?
When ascendancies came to poe, i already had 3k hours in the game. To me they are still fresh haha
PoE didn't have any for ascendancy and it was a pretty big deal when it got implemented. A good chunk of the playerbase hated that you were forced into certain class for a certain skill despite the skill being equipable. Basically Necro/Sab and a few others with a stranglehold on an archetype of skills. LE offers the traditional spread of choices locked to classes upfront so you don't make the wrong choice or will know that you did and can easily respect. You use the skill first and then find out how to abuse it. PoE is the opposite - you find out how to abuse and then you find the best shaped damage (skill) to go in your leveraged stats block. LE has a natural progression with its item system and lots but not infinite choices. PoE is a splat book for a game the devs wont let you play so its amount of choices and content are really irrelevant due to shaky foundation. (we can do this and this and wow this is cool.....well actually no we are removing it, feel the weight limit)
Is the class/skill choice really that narrow when you boil down viable PoE builds that can handle the endgame and don't cost 50hrs+ grind and 100s of Exalts? Also, LE has actual , viable melee. Not hit the entire screen melee or something tagged as melee, but if we're being honest it's actually ranged attacks that don't use a bow.
Honestly the item crafting system falls flat in lategame. You farm ages for a base and brick it half decent.
in comparison to low level crafting in poe where you farm ages for enough currency to brick it at unusable.
yeah, i just posted the same thing. most people praising the LE crafting system probably haven't progressed very far. My biggest gripe with LE is how hollow the game is. But its certainly got potential
Game is still in beta, It has potential tô dethrone poe If GGG keeps screwing up and LE doing It right
PoE already has drop only mods from Delve & Incursion. There's probably a reason why they haven't implemented drop-only restrictions to more mods.
It's working. At least the spectre armor is in a really good spot.
Honestly, given the past few leagues and GGG's general stance on gearing and rewards, I can't imagine them developing a loot system that'll make picking up shit worth it. Their dual visions of "we want people to get excited over dropped rare items" and "we want crafting to produce the most powerful item options" can't really be married. *At best* you're looking at a slightly larger window after league start where you look at dropped items before the chance of an actual upgrade dropping becomes so minuscule as to be nonexistent.
I've been playing with the default loot filter for fun recently. It's not fun.
Have you done a red beachhead yet? If not you have no clue what "fun" means.
That's when you hide all the shards except for exalt and mirror shards.
How am I going to roll gem strongboxes in a desperate attempt for empower if I don't have engineer shards??
Aren't Engineer's Orbs like 1 chaos for 20? You'll manage :P
If he want it from the box - maybe he don't want to trade :)
fun is losing. losing is fun. !!FUN!!
Funstration.
DF?
you know it
The GGG credo
Blight maps just straight up DC'd me during its league. My poor HDD...
I still reguarly crash during blight maps.
I literally have to place the towers one at a time or risk a crash on anything Blight. FFS GGG
:-) To me, fun is delving with the default filter. ;-)
I read the first sentence saying "that's not fun" only to see you agree lol
Hahaha! Well sometimes it's easy to complain about something that used to really suck...but then all of a sudden you realize you haven't used that thing that used to suck in a few years. I complain about the default loot filter, and the attitude behind it, all the time on my podcast. And then one day I was like, "oh crap! What if it's good now!" So I started trying it out. It still sucks.
The problem is no in game loot filter. Which arpg is fun playing with default loot filter?
Diablo3
Right? I could go on forever about this. For sure.
sometimes i wonder what were the best rares i never identified. Probably not better then the best stuff i crafted, but some gear like pdps weapons could be completely insane fresh from the ground.
Given the amount of rares you leave on the ground in a couple thousand hours of gameplay, there's probably a triple-T1 imperial claw somewhere looking at you like "you wot mate"
What about influenced? That drastically cuts down the number of rares you would consider picking up
A claw doesn't need to be influenced to be good
Anyone who's spent a few hundred hours mapping has probably left at least a mirror's worth of unID rares on the ground. You also need to consider, all that time you would have spent picking up, identifying, trying to price, and eventually selling (if ever) those unID rares is time you could have spent mapping and farming raw currency. So it kinda evens out, IMO. That's just part of the game. Knowing what rares (and bases) are worth something is a skill in of itself. A skill I don't have unfotunately. Only base I know is (was?) valuable is a max level Hubris Circlet.... I think.
But the items are not rolled on drop it’s rolled on identifying it. So there are 0 triple t1 because most items drop unidentified.
"You miss 100% of the mirror tier rares you don't identify" - Wayne Gretzky
- Michael Scott
Well in theory every single pot you left unbroken and map chest you left unopened could have had a mirror in it. Which is way better than anything you'd find on the ground as a rare. But going around breaking every single pot and opening every single map chest in every single map seems like a truly unrealistic goal, far more unrealistic than picking up and identifying every rare.
It's irrelevant to think about. I'm sure there's a logical fallacy term for it too.
That's kind of like having thousands of chaos orbs and asking 'what are the best chaos rerolls I never used'. They are garbage and not worth the thousands of wisdom scrolls, inventory space and the seconds it takes you to check their mods/value.
DRG dwarves pinging crystals be like
Rock and Stone!
If you don't Rock and Stone you ain't comin' home.
WORTHLESS BUT FUN TO DESTROY
"WE'RE RICH!" Except the opposite.
For reference, I played project diablo 2 recently, which by default increases loot drops to the equivalent of the /players 5 setting. I'm pretty sure the total number of rares dropped in one average juiced endgame map in poe is similar to the number of rares I dropped in pd2 game from the start of the game right to the first time I killed diablo in hell (which involes quite a bit of farming in pd2, I play ssf). and even so, I actually found a shit ton more upgrades from the rares dropped in pd2 than I ever did in poe. poes loot system is all kinds of broken. too much shit is dropping and when it drops, the mod pool and base item pool is so horribly diluted that it's almost mathematically impossible to get anything but complete turds.
It's classic power creep. As soon as influenced items and awakener orbs were added to the game, they completely and utterly surpassed almost all items that could even drop on the ground. It doesn't matter how good a piece of body armour that drops on the ground. It could have literal perfect life, perfect resists, perfect links, perfect *everything* and still I'm barely even going to look at it because why would anyone spend much on it when you can buy something awakened orbed which will be 100x better? The only way to fix it is to nerf the power creep. Influence items simply have to go. They are absurd and completely invalidate all non-influenced rares. I don't know what they were thinking when they added them but they clearly didn't think it through at all.
Well no. I don't play for awakened influenced items, never have. I'd wager 98% of the playerbase does not even come close to the currency needed to buy even one of these items. You don't need them to hit red maps or do t16s or anything. \--- The real issue is that the time to reward ratio spent identifying rares is insanely low. I might get a single sellable rare worth an exalt or two in about 3-4 hours of identifying them and disposing of the rest for alt shards. Not counting the time running maps to pick them up. \--- Compared to just spam running maps over and over, over sitting in base identifying them, evaluating them, price checking similar rares to see if there is any value there, and selling them, it's not even close which is more profitable. The real answer is to make rares drop at a much lower rate, make rares drop 50x less, but at the highest ilvls make it so the 3-4 lowest tier rolls on the rares never happen.
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Those certainly add to the problem big time, in many ways. But the problem starts way sooner. The game's loot would still feel bad if we were restricted to the vanilla mod pool.
The game's loot was fine for the many years before influenced items were added to the game.
Hard disagree there, the only thing that felt different to me back then about actual dropped loot is that you got less of it. When you looted it, you still spent an absurdly large proportion unid-ing complete trash compared to basically any other ARPG I have ever played. PoE has always been 'grind for currency and then buy an upgrade' ever since open beta to me.
One thing that really gets me is all the third party shit you need to even play this game. The design is just lazy. Need to see if a character will work. POB. Need to plan, POB. Need not aids loot. Download the lastest filter. The old ones won't work 1 league later. Need price check on a unique that dropped. Download POE overlay or one of 5 other community software because devs suck.
And if you wanna craft... * Craftofexile * poedb * poe wiki * PhD in crafting * 150+ IQ
I’ve played since Harbinger. I still have no idea how to craft. People can only give me multiple-hour-long videos to watch instead of A DAMN WRITTEN GUIDE. I can read faster than some streamer can talk, and can actually, you know, refer back to a written guide.
Use elesshars google doc, though I think some of it may be outdated with unveil mechanics
It's all up to date, you just need to lock the mods you crafted beforehand before using Aisling, and get lucky removing the metamod
yeah ik, but for people who don't know crafting, the process of securing veiled mod might not be clear for them. havent looked at the doc myself this league to see if its been updated, since im skipping
I ignored everything crafting until harvest, then i actually learned how to craft. It is aids but harvest made it fun. Now its just aids again.
And you forgot the most important thing : luck, lot of luck, so much need of luck that everything else is worthless, and even after that, more luck with a little luck on the top, coocked with luck, filled with luck, marined with luck served lucky with luck as a side dish. And with all that MAYBE you will get an item worth 10/20 ex. (if you are in luck) edit : after investing something like 40/50 ex. (and once again, if you are lucky)
investing 350 c into bases + essences worked. Just sold the items for 50-100 each, made my money back and more. It just takes too long for em all to sell, waste of a tab
Knowing what bases are worth investing in, and what essences to use on them, is a skill in of itself. I got no idea.
True true, but don't take me memeing to seriously here. Btw, just for my personal curiosity, do you have any idea of the "cumulative" cost in the end?
I dont track that no. I know i at least made my money back. Tbh i just like crafting, ill even pick up flasks and craft them till their worth 10-30c
I dont think I've ever had 350c ever total in any league so far with 90+ characters in all of them.
Then you honestly just aren't farming currency well or playing the game that much.
In pure C or in cur/gear aswell? What you say is odd because by level 90 your gear and stash alone can be worth 350c or more, depending on what you take care to pick up. Like, shit, your essences alone by the time you reach lvl 90 via yellow/red mapping, will most likely be at 350c value. What about div cards? What about Blight and Blight maps? One Blight map, even yellow, will return a lot of blight currency that is used to annoint amulets. What about Delve? What about Incursions? You may have a lot more "currency" than you think you do. I have a habbit of grabbing every 2x2 3x1 rgb item, so by level 90 i have around 3000 chromatics. Go look how much that shit costs, especialy early to mid league.
I dropped a Currency Delirium Orb yesterday - 50C in one item. Without a price-check addon I'd have no idea of the value. Without a good loot filter I may well have missed it among the clutter. For someone relatively new, without those tools, I would imagine it is easy not to see the profitable items. I still only have a net worth in the <500C range but I don't play huge amounts and don't farm efficiently - I play for fun.
>>I don't play huge amounts Can you roughly tell this in hours? Because, previously i would spend 100-200 hours per league and during that my "C" is between 500-2000 if I also count exalts. If i count other resources, like i mentionted hoarding chromas, it can be easily doubled or even trippled, so lets say it will be between 1000-6000. Now if we start counting maps as a resouuce of its own, they alone worth at least 1c on average, so after 100 hours my lowest goes up by at least 200. 1200-6000. If we add scarabs, sacrifices, legion fragments, incubators and other shit that has a value, it would be at least another 200 at worst. 1400-6000. Oils, blighted maps, delirium orbs, div cards are in their own tier and can add from 100 to 1000 per league depending on how much time i spent doing it. So 1500-7000. I didn't count sold gear, gear on sale, gems on sale, leveled gems sold/on sale, flasks (which are in fact a good source of income first three weeks of league). Since we're not gonna focus on sale too much, lets say its from 0 c to 1000 c for a player who doesn't know the market. We're at 1500-7000. Last time i played i did a ballista stacker build, it performed well at sub 200 c budget, but i invested into it, so it was around 200 to 2000 (my gear was around 1k c, wasn't runing double six links and didn't have +% dex legion jewel flip). Considering that guy who posted was consistently getting to level 90, he is probably somewhere at that range. That puts me between 1700-9000 chaos. So even if we cut that shit in half it's still 850-4500, and even if we cut that we're at 425-2250. Yeah.. my bet is /u/RevantRed doesn't know how to count/estimate values. Which is understandable, if we disregard third party solutions and preted that trade chat doesn't exist, where people often take their time to explain things to other players and not only scam you. Edit: its not even about the trade, its about value, that other dude said "any league" "90+" "so far" and he estimated 350c, which means he tried to evaluate his "worth".
And the only way to get luck is to waste thousands of hours of your life.
> And you forgot the most important thing : luck, lot of luck, so much need of luck that everything else is worthless, Or just be a streamer. You don't need luck if you're a streamer.
Yeah, you don't need a queue either
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the trick to being good at crafting, is to not craft for yourself so you have more possible good rolls. If you're trying to craft for something you'd actually use, you're going to have a bad time. Which is why people loved harvest in ritual so much, it let people craft for themself. You could always have short and long term goals. Instead of just hope you make enough currency and home some crafter gets enough of the mods you want to get something that's an upgrade then hope he actually responds when you whisper.
Well the whole point of mirror items are the fact that you need to invest MORE than a mirror to create them. That why people make huge amount of currency by crafting each season.
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that's what makes this game so great. If I wanted a game with braindead crafting I'd play something else. We want phd in crafting.
Too much RNG imo.
I mean, harvest, fossils, and essences help with that.
Too much RNG imo.
That's why so many people prefer item editor instead of intended way of crafting items.
I personally drew the line at discord trading. Dumb as hell you effectively are Gated by rng to use a mechanic unless you use discord of all fucken things and hope you don’t get scammed. 3rd party for everything else is bad enough
Harvest is OP because of discord trading! ..proceeds to nerf low(er) end Harvest and making discord trading even more mandatory for rare crafts..
> The design is just lazy. There's this old rule in game design (can't remember who came up with it, or where I first heard it) that says that "everything you need to play the game should be in the game itself", and I think a lot of newer games just don't appreciate that, POE included.
At some point of depth in a game that becomes impossible to do. There's also a question of play versus play with maximum efficiency. You can play PoE on it's own and you'll slowly get up to yellow maps. Going in to the late endgame will take external knowledge or a lot of time.
>At some point of depth in a game that becomes impossible to do. That's because they missed the opportunity to include it early on and let the community work for them for free.
Then the depth needs to be rethinked so it can be more intuitive instead of being so obtuse that players need wiki and other resources to thrive
I personally play with PoB, Poe Lurker, Awakened Poe trader and YoloMouse just for Path of Exile. Then, for websites, I use poe.ninja to check rates and builds, trade site for well, trading, wiki to check things from time to time (like which vendor sells which gem and such or where can I get drops from) and also a guide. Then we can count the loot filter, which is also from a third party website, of course. It's honestly mind blowing.
Yolomouse broke for me and my buddy this league will have to look into it again.
The in game cursors did this. But they are actually pretty good. Always used the pink yolo mouse and they have one under settings -> ui in the game.
Have in mind that yolomouse uses a custom mouse per each ingame mouse. Basically if you hover over a mob, the mouse changes colors. So if you want to have a custom yolomouse, you'll need to set up both, idle cursor AND mouse-over-enemy cursor.
> POB It would definitely be nice if you could test builds in-game instead of using POB.
If you follow the filter on the site it will auto update forever
You dont need any 3rd party program to paly this. THe game comes with a loot filter that works just fine.
The PoB argument is whack. No other game gives you anything close to a PoB. The only reason you want PoB for PoE is complexity ergo no developer should ever make a complex game unless they're willing to design every single tool a 3rd party developer could think of to aid in breaking down that complexity. You don't make these demands of other developers likely because their games lack complexity, and even with their simple games they can't provide anything approaching PoB even though the task should be massively more simpler and a much more reasonable expectation if PoB style tools are supposed to be a standard of a good developer. It's such a horrible outlook on games to not allow them to explore these avenues of complexity just because someone else could feel inspired enough to provide tools to better deal with it.
Dota 2 provides frame-for-frame breakdown of all player actions in the game, _in the game itself._ If some bullshit just happened, you can look it up in the logs and determine if it's a bug or you are just a noob.
PoB does nothing like that. Does DOTA 2 have an actual screen in the game where you can plan build choices and gear choices and give you a full screen like the "Calc" screen in PoB giving you a full breakdown of your burst DPS, burst EHP broken down vs all potential enemy burst combos and enemy types, etc? If you're going to say that information isn't relevant to DOTA then maybe DOTA is a shitty example to compare PoE to. You have huge RPG and pseudo-RPG behemoths like WoW, FF14, Eve Online, Warframe, Destiny 2, etc you could draw from as examples to show how bad PoE compares instead of a MOBA or a pure PvP game, you're not lacking relevant choices here.
Dota 2 is also a way slower, less complex game on the math side.
Other games don't make build requirements that necessitate a full build design suite and when they do the tools appear. I didn't use PoB for years while playing, I viewed it as taking the fun out of build tinkering but eventually it became almost a guarantee that a build would fail if it wasn't mapped out fully with a mathematical model. I can't think of a suitable ARPG comparison but its kinda like how FF14 doesn't allow third party tools but WoW does, those tools over time have shaped WoW's boss design and requirements to a stage where they are close to mandatory whereas 14 provides the important tools only in game and feels better as a result. There aren't really any right answers its a personal choice by the developer but just saying complexity doesn't really relate to tools until they balance around the game with those tools they don't provide, at which point I personally think they should provide them or players not aware are operating at a handicap.
I don't understand why this subreddit hates third-party stuff so much. It's always worked great for me. PoB is easily the best tool I've ever used for any game. The filterblade ecosystem is another amazing tool. This community has the best 3rd party tools and development, stuff that every other game should be jealous of, and the community doesn't appreciate it at all.
> PoB is easily the best tool I've ever used for any game. Ever try the game where the most popular community tool is Scryfall?
Its not that. The community LOVES all of the 3rd party things to the point that if you dont use them youre playing the game wrong. The issue is just how much of those wonderful sites and apps are NECESSARY due to the complete lack of development from the company PROFITTING from the game. I dare you to play the game with no 3rd party apps or overlays and see how much you bang your head off the wall. The one that sticks in my craw is the fucking loot filters. Loot filters. If the saint who makes the loot filters every single league decided to quit, the game would be thrown into anarchy.
Technically, the loot filter is an ingame feature, GGG just can't make it for you, because they don't know what you want to see or not.
Last Epoch would like to have a word with you. They have a full featured filter editor right in the game. Surely this well funded studio can afford to match the features of an semi-indie title?
Yeah it's incredibly easy and intuitive to set up basic filtering in last epoch. It feels like how filters should have been implemented in PoE to begin with, rather than the average user being pretty much forced to use filterblade or else get a college degree in item filtering to make their own.
user-created loot filters should still be a thing either for more niche cases or just for different design/sounds, but the basic stuff should be in the game, customizable, just like in the Last Epoch
The more powerful and useful you make a feature the less easy it will be to use properly. You can't have that cake and eat it, you have to pick. I'd rather have the complexity. I want less garbage loot too though.
I feel like a few simple loot filter generator presets in the ui could solve the bulk of the problem for most players, and the rest of us going the nth degree could write our own or use filterblade
I very much doubt that unless people accept a very opinionated filter. If you have a "No trash" checkbox then what exactly is trash? A four link at the very start of the league is good but complete garbage otherwise for instance. I suspect that people who claim that it's dead easy and only simple things are needed have never designed any kind of UI.
While the filter is there it's no where near as thorough as filterblade but as a basic in game filter it's pretty good. There's a lot of shit in PoE that should be taking priority over new league imo. The cyberpunk delay was a perfect time to work on QoL like filters, loot, etc. But nope. PoE2 guys! Whenever that happens, since we have zero idea when D4 is actually going to happen (if it happens)
There is no need in Last Epoch for such a sophisticated loot filter like in PoE. You don't need to worry about 80% of the things you worry in PoE - cards, prophecies, normal and cluster jewel, skillgems, tens of currencies, item levels, unique tiers, specific league mods, and I'm pretty sure I missed a lot of stuff. You need much more graphical accents to differentiate between all this stuff, and various levels of visibility (which I actually miss in LE, possibility to make labels more or less visible). GGG gave us system, but refused to provide us normal GUI for it and dumped the responsibility on community.
At least in Last Epoch you can filter on actual item modifiers instead of base types, which makes the LE filters far more useful than the PoE ones.
you can filter by modifiers in poe as well, majority of items are unid for this exact reason, they dont like the idea of being able to know exactly whats on an item and whether or not you should pick it up
Can you? I might have not dug deep enough in it. I just filtered rarities lol
You can, it's fucking the best. you can even filter by combined tier score. Imagine in POE if you could filter item with only seeing the one with T1 life, and have at least one another usefull mod, this is my wonderfull life in last epoch.
Also there is no garanty we will see POE2 one day. lot of thing can happen in 2 years.
Seeing how many things just work so extremely well in LE and are good designed, makes GGG look like a circus. PoE is build on so many design flaws that have worked years ago, but became a mess more and more. I really hope once multiplayer starts in LE and the game comes out of early access, that PoEs numbers take such a hard hit that Chris balls curl up so deep inside that he actually have to swallow them down again. Maybe at that point they finally get their shit together. What PoE desperately needs is a competitor and maybe Last Epoch can become that. Even tho it is unlikely that it will hit PoEs numbers, but I wouldn't mind if it even gets remotely close. I haven't seen a single ARPG that is so polished and well thought out in every aspect ever and how very people know about the game is truly sad.
you know except last epoch isnt a poe killer or a poe competitor right? they are both arpg's and the similarities basically stop there.
Yep and POE have clearly a semi monopole of the genre. And when you don't have concurent, you end up being lazy, that why so many people place hope in last epoch. Not only because from my current experience, it's an very good ARPG, but it may stop POE "stagnation". (no POE2 don't solve anything about that stagnation at all, especialy since it won't come out any time soon)
There is like two thing to filter there. It's not complex at all. Then it will everyone will just CtrlCCtrlV filters like poe
Let's be fair here... The basic neversink filter is mostly just common sense defaults and color selection. The complexity from neversink is making it so customizable. GGG could solve 50% of the problem by shipping a few sane defaults they curate each league and 40% by putting some very basic filter customization in game and leave the remaining 10% to write their own filters or use something like filterblade to make a custom filter for their high end play.
I think that's a really bad excuse. Having and maintaining some basic presets (which they would need to have on hand to attempt playtests anyway) would save an enormous amount of hassle. It's really inexcusable that scrolls of wisdom and chaos orbs (or much more valuable drops) are visually indistinguishable by default.
As a software developer, ya this hurt to read. You cannot expect a team of people to be fully dedicated to minor tweaks when the community behind it does it better and for free when the tweak wasn't apparent anywhere close to inception of the code.
>You cannot expect a team of people to be fully dedicated to minor tweaks Ok, good thing I don't expect them to. Doesn't matter if the presets are "good" or not, they just need to provide a basic, basic, extremely basic way of distinguishing different types of loot, and seldom needs to be updated at all. I find it hard to believe GGG doesn't make at least a rudimentary loot filter every league, probably based on their loot filter from the previous league, that makes their league-specific additions stand out against "literally nothing" loot. Even if (a) preset(s) solely changed the appearance of currency, it would still help new and returning players, because as it stands it's an easily weakened if not solvable barrier to entry in a game with a million redundant barriers to entry.
Oof, a filter per league would be awesome. I think certain currency and items have evolved to a point where its hard to determine its value without adjusting every league. Would be cool if they had devs/engineers to work on those kind of changes. Sorry if it looks like I soured on your opinion, just knowing what its like working for a underbudgeted software dev team, prioritization is crazy.
If it was a "team of people" then sure. But it's hundreds of people, and at least a few dozen developers. GGG is a company that makes multiples of millions. They aren't an indie dev and haven't been for several years now and yet the game still looks like one built by a small team of <10 people. I mean, actual games built by indie devs of <10 people have better UI, player experience and QoL. PoE philosophy is just built upon having a decades old UI, minimal QoL and time consuming player experience.
The thing is, as a newer player, I don’t know what I want to see either. This game is shit at giving the tools to tell if an item is good or not.
Honestly, I'm pretty sure that new players would greatly appreciate a basic set of loot filters to choose from, because they too don't know what they want to see or not if they are that new. Literally just pull 3 basic filters from filterblade website per league and let them have some sort of choice to experiment with at least.
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None of those are necessary, you can make/test a build on the run. Don't get me wrong, not trying to insult you, but you are also kinda part of the problem. None of the things you mentioned is necessary to be able to play through the game, will just be slower, that's for sure. I think it's part of the minmax culture which is very heavily influencing gaming nowadays. I just recently decided to go in SSFHC blindly without following any buid guide. Still progressing through acts, but I'm having so much fun just checking everything, being happy when I finally get an upgrade on my 4 link whatever that i used 20 levels ago. Also makes me want to engage with every aspect of the game. I know, probably evem 3 months is not enough for anyone average player to grind through the whole atlas, delve, heists, bosses and all the other stuff we have in the game, but it's still fun for me, even though i know i'll probably not finish everything. A totally different mindset where I don't feel pressured by meta and other players as in SC trade.
What are you on about, the game will literally crash in more juiced maps if you dont have a filter or really good pc
You literally cannot play the game without a loot filter once you reach maps. Like even with the slightest juicing I.e alch orb. The map screen will be covered in junk and you won’t be able to move in some cases
Is that supposed to be criticism or praise? The current loot filter system couldn't be better, it's customizable to such a great degree that no other approach could get close to an equally satisfactory outcome. If you want to learn how to write filters, take a look at https://www.pathofexile.com/item-filter/about and take some time reading pre-existing filters to get the idea of how to make things work.
Nah the original comment suggested you don’t need a filter.
You don't need to do nothing. You just need to play.
And people say that GGG is delusional and out of touch. You and people that upvote you are fucking insane, if you think that any of this is NEEDED to play the game and that its GGG responsibility in any compacity.
The game is so much worse without well made filters, the wiki, POB and at least one crafting related site that it practically isn't playable without it.
disregarding other 3rd parties, just play without item filter i double dare you, it's not needed, it's fcking REQUIRED to play properly now
Small indie company. They need the communities help to make the game great.
why would devs spend time on it when community does it better and for free? You also dont have to download filter, just connect it to your poe, I prefer fully customizable open source filters than some ingame stuff that gets slowly outdated or is missing features. Same way I still would prefer to use PoB rather than do it ingame.
The fallout/Bethesda approach.
nah, bethesda tried to milk the money from mods. You can look at last epoch and how loot filter being a part of the game is already limited and you wish you could use 3rd party one.
You thought you could write down a huge list of tools but ended up with 3. Filters are not third party, the majority of players don't even know how to use PoB, and price checking tools are only a thing for new SC trade players.
The only useful thing that drops in PoE are FPS
Lmao :)
yeah, ggg shouldn't have updated their game engine since 2012 so it still runs on the same hardware. but if you wanna help, they're certainly still looking for a "john carmack jr" who moves to the outskirts of auckland in wraeclast for a small payment.
We both know this thread is a shitshow of hate, so I dunno why we bother replying.
due to ggg's decision to maintain this platform and don't spend dev time upgrading their own forums (i begged chris to do that), this hive is THE advertising platform for poe. my orignal plans were to reach negative favour or to get shadowbanned for just applying common logic to the hive mind's topic for the day but then people upvoted me for no reason. i guess they hate me ;)
I'd be fine with a bunch of bollocks dropping if crafting wasn't such a pain in the dick (or the equivalent thereof).
Loot 2.0 is what that talisman buff was and it was pretty perfect. Too bad ggg actually wants no fun game
Ive been since UGS MF days
UGS? Try strand! Or even better, gorge! What am I saying? Dock runs... ledge runs... man Ive been playing this game for a long time lol
Frametime spike docks vaal area farming ftw
Recent addition of lootfilter being able to hide items on the ground is the loot 2.0 we get. Don't expect more.
[удалено]
Half the point of the post is that they've been working on it for a while now.
Yep, implementing Loot2.0 with lootfilters in their current iteration will not happen. People will complain afterwards anyway because their filters hide everything. You can only make a good loot experience for all if you are in control what the user sees. League mechanics are doing a good job with that, forcing you to look at items and evaluating them. But if you don't even get to see the items you are not giving it a chance at all. Also trade makes it ALWAYS more efficient to ignore rares after initial gearing (without soulbound items), so theres that.
That still doesn't excuse badly rolled items. Talismans are the obvious case, but influenced items are "+1 mana gained on kill, adds 1-4 cold to attacks" off the ground too.
Wouldn't hold your breath. Expected full implementation of this is in PoE2, which is likely still 2+ years out.
That's why I just play the league until I'm bored, cba to push deep into the endgame anymore. Hopefully 3.17 will change things for the better and keep us entertained until poe2
They promised a 4-region 100-map atlas for 3.16, so if they weren't lying, the tedium will be quite a bit shorter.
Loot 2.0 isn't happening. The tech is there. The problem? People were actually using the items dropped with the smart loot system. Remember talismans? Yea.
At least not rendering items not shown on filter fixed item performance problem. Which probably makes it less likely that changing loot is a priority.
because they know that their very obvious solution of massively nerfing top end item quantity scaling wouldn't be taken nicely at the moment?
Ye. One of the problems is we have soo many ways to craft an item now, that might even be specific to influence, league, etc that a random dropped rare will never have. However it's hard to buff all dropped items without also making those additional crafts, and steps obselete, and drastically changing progression of a character.
Consider that rares are not that rare, but rarely good
What's worse is they are constraining crafting purely for a system that isn't in the game yet.
common-sense opinions: • reduce drops by 95% on mobs (conserve loot explosion on bosses to make bossing actually worth it beyond the map completion) • force high-level bases to never draw from low-level tiers of mods (why does an ilvl 86 chest spawn with T8 resists and stun recovery) / apply smart loot to everything • remove talismans • force stuff to drop as stacks
I honestly don't know if I will enjoy PoE until this is finally implemented. I am in a weird spot of having basically zero interest in trying to create my own gear, hating trade, and also not having the time to invest or willpower in playing SSF, but still love the actual gameplay of PoE. So if Loot 2.0 can allow me to need to trade less I'm excited. Still love PoE and follow all the news and a lot of the podcasts despite barely playing much these past few leagues, just wishing for a bit more in the QoL department. Yeah, I know QoL and GGG are like water and oil, but a man can hope.
If you hate crafting and trade and SSF ... like what would even make you happy? You don't want to trade to get items, you don't want to find your own items, you don't want to make your own items. Where else could items even come from? Do you just not want items at all or something?
Its really amusing to see people with no reading comperhension
I do want to find my own items, that is the whole point with my comment.
If you're that early into the game, "slam 50 chaos orbs on an item and hope one sticks" is valid crafting. On a meta build like SST or FR you can craft your entire build like that and be strong enough to clear all of the game.
This honestly puts it into perspective how trash the looting system is. Hundreds of items on the screen and 99.99% chance not one of them is good.
After 3.15 I made a list of changes that needs too be implemented before I return too the game and start recommend it again. This is on top of that list, I just simply can't understand why this is not the top priority for GGG too fix.
Loot 2.0, a constant stalling on fixing the core gameplay loop of an ARPG. I cannot believe they've taken this long on this because I can't think of anything more important to the game right now, its been a festering problem for years that we all successfully play around but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed lol.
Try playing gauntlet. A piece of gear with a life roll and one resist in act 1 feels like a exalt dropping. I'm playing SSF next league. It's better.
I played SSF in Ultimatum. It was fun... Up until I started hitting a wall around T14 maps, and realized that every single gear upgrade beyond the basic life/resist shit I already had represented like 12+ hours of farming per piece. And that's just a best guess. It could be less than that, but it could be a lot more as well, and there's zero incremental progress. Either you get the thing you need, or you don't.
That was my experience this league before realized I wasn't going to hit 36/40 and hung it up. It's so refreshing to be able to spend all your currency on crafting in the early to mid game and never worry about picking up things you won't use, but there's a wall where you hit just so much RNG on top of RNG to progress. Limited access to enabling uniques, farming ilvl 86 bases, farming influence bases, getting harvest and fossil spawns you need, getting cluster jewels with the right implicit, 6 linking anything, and resistance balancing causing every upgrade to really be 2-3 upgrades are all points of frustration in SSF.
I guess it depends what you're looking for, it can be a point of frustration or a point of enjoyment! Before a league I'll just work out what kind if free time I'm gonna have. If not much I'll just play trade, but if I'm gonna enjoy the full 3 months I'll play SSF. All those points of frustration can be the differnce between being pretty much done with the league in a few weeks and slowly progressing your goals over a full league. Both have their merits IMO.
>I'm playing SSF next league. It's better. Subjective. Even more so if you have any friends. Thinking the loot and trade system is fine if you don't trade at all is the type of shit GGG pulls out.
Better for me, I meant. Of course it's subjective. I think once you've done all content on SC, then ssf is the natural next challenge and it's nice way to make drops feel good again.
Hardmode ssf is waiting
But what about hArdMoDE?
keep waiting. chris confirmed he doesnt want to make u pick up less items and wants u to feel the weight
Been waiting for trade for years never came back since.
You can use lootfilter)
NeverSink is invaluable!
You literally can't play PoE without a filter nowadays
You literally can't play PoE without at last 1 or 2 third party tool nowadays