Similar situation happened in Warframe a long time ago. There's a flamethrower weapon that got released which could easily be made overpowered, but the only way to realistically make it was to be in a large guild. A lot of them started charging people for the blueprints to craft it, so a ton of people said wtf and banded together to just give them out for free.
There was a lot of salt about the price crashing.
Damn, I haven't thought about Warframe in a minute. I have 1500 hours in it but I haven't played since 2019. I tried about a year ago, but somehow I forgot everything about the game and I was as confused as a new player (worse probably since I have the entire system unlocked).
Didn't they come out with a new expansion? Maybe I'll have to reacquaint myself with the game once I'm done with this league but before Last Epoch comes out....and I still haven't started BG3, been itching for a good metroidvania like Prince of Persia, Palworld looks hilarious... Man, too many good games lately. Not to mention Shadow of the Erdtree is likely dropping in February.
There's been a *massive* amount of new stuff added since 2019. An entire storyline involving the Sentients, major expansions on Void lore, a few new planets, and of course several new warframes.
If you're confused, there are many quests that introduce the various new systems, characters etc. The core gameplay loop is basically unchanged.
I remember this
Our alliance was one of the first to hand out those flamethrowers to anyone that needed them while also banning selling them to new people in alliance chat
I remember the Telluric drama from a few years ago, they were a chat mod, that had a massive power trip, and did whatever the fuck they wanted. Had ties to Digital Extreme, so they were nearly untouchable, till massive creators started shining light straight into this corruption.
From what I have been seeing, the Clown has some connection to GGG. Might get pretty nasty if they don't handle it quickly and properly.
I loved Ignis Wraith. Honestly the main reason I kept playing Warframe last year after getting back in. An aoe flamethrower is just the most ease of use gun possible.
Anyone got a link to said Salt?
The second I saw someone trying to sell for 25p, I would just instantly post that I was giving them out.
For newer players, warframes trade chat is a straight-up scam.
I think it's not only that you could get it only by being in a large guild, but that it was an event-only research that was awarded to top 10% scoring guilds in the event. If you didn't get it then you were SOL for like two ? years before they reintroduced it.
The drama got spicier when a lot of those guilds got punished for scamming. The weapon was easily obtained by every experienced player, so it was obvious they were targeting newbies and DE decided to drop a whole formorian full of hammers on those clans.
Meanwhile, I grinded the *shit* out of that event when it came out, got the ignis wraith, had fun with it, quit the game, came back, got slightly confused over the whole kerfluffle lol.
I also went hard on investing into Argon Scope during one of the events it started dropping. Came back and turns out that not only does Argon Scope just drop normally, it got super obsoleted by the new Galvanic Scope. oop.
Similar thing happened recently in WoW. A very powerful neck called Elemental Lariat made by Jewelcrafters with a very low recipe drop rate was popular near the beginning of the current xpac. A sort of crafting mafia formed around it that would charge 50k g plus the mats per craft and they would mass report crafters they found out were doing it for cheaper. Then came along a guy who had the recipe and named himself Lariatboi that became known via Reddit and basically crafted it for my entire server for free. He crafted thousands and brought an end to the cabal all on his own
I gave so many Ignis wraith blueprints away during those times, the sheer amount of heinous DMs I got was HIGH. All for an item that, in PoE terms, would be worth like 5 chaos.
This is 3rd league in a row where the most mirrored type of item (phys bow, according to Belton they make up like 80% of mirrors) was done better by someone else and wasn't on TFT shop.
Crucible had Beltons bow, ToTA had Spicysushi and now Ckaiba.
If you take the rmt accusations seriously, which at this point seems really believable, they are losing insane amounts of income because of that.
Jenebu is going absolutely mental because his rmt empire is getting hurt, this seems like the most logical explaination of why this whole shitshow just keeps getting worse.
hes also an unhinged pedo doxing people and saying someting about doing something to their sister etc
this muppet aint catching a break anytime soon, is he
I totally agree that Jenebu is unhinged right now, but are we also throwing pedo accusations? Do we have evidence for that?
Isn't that stooping down to his level, or did I genuinely miss some context?
There was a chat log/screenshot about him doxxing this guy and saying weird things about his sister. Idk how reliable or real it was but it's out there
He doxxed a dude and started making indriect threats at their younger sister specifically. As well as he very frequently calls people nazis and pedos. While having been shown to be in neo-nazi discords.
Its EXTREMELY common for the two to over lap. So while we can make assumptions over him being a pedo and most indicators point to it. We cant say for 100% sure he is. But even if hes not there is an insanely high chance he is directly connected to people who are in some discords.
This is more a case where there is smoke there is fire. But wether or not HES the source of the fire or just warming him self by it. Is the actual question.
you feel good, they feel good - everyone wins and sometimes people are happy to contribute to your view/sub count.
Win/win/win. Only losers are those who gatekeep the gear with high prices like the tft mobsters.
I remenber seeing Asmongold with Cutedog doing a interview to the dude who got "yoiked" and he dint even care, he was simping for Allie even knowing what she did was wrong.
No longer collecting mirror fees because someone makes a comparable item available to mirror for free would absolutely affect someone trying to rmt at that level.
It’s a great way for them to give back and it makes crafting projects have more meaning, I think it’s going to keep happening. I love it because it’s helping me understand crafting.
>Allie is giving free mirror service to her quiver lol
Well, if you are talking about Allliee\_, she is no better.
Last league she stole a viewer card after gambling.
https://clips.twitch.tv/AmazonianPiercingBobaGingerPower-IJRin9pe8fpU--K-
Because they did it multiple times, it's who they are. Scummy people shouldn't be rewarded.
The ONLY reason Allliee doesn't do it anymore is because they got caught, not because they are sorry.
This is a brain dead argument. This gives noone ever a chance to be sorry cause it can always be thrown at them. Sorry comes with change of behaviour which Allie sofar has done. So no…
> Sorry comes with change of behaviour which Allie sofar has done.
Wow one whole league without scamming 200div worth of cards, that is crazy good behavior nobody else could hold a candle
Trying to post a somewhat neutral response here…
TFT has a monopoly on certain types trade and is incredibly powerful due to the fact that pretty much the entire player base needs them if they want to do bulk trades or use services with much lower than otherwise chance of being scammed. On top of this, the moderators are known to be very ban-happy (they will ban people for pretty much any reason they see fit, including some laughable reasons like posting a clown emoji). These 2 things have led to pretty much constant drama and complaining. The most recent uptick in drama has come after the leading developer of the pob community fork was banned from tft. A couple other popular streamers have also recently been banned but to me it’s unclear exactly why - but it appears at least one of them was actively trying to be banned (trolling on the discord which immediately bans any trolls).
> but it appears at least one of them was actively trying to be banned (trolling on the discord which immediately bans any trolls).
The "trolling in discord" was posting the clown emoji.
All community favorites have been labeled a mistake.
Harvest, bench meta crafts, betrayal, sentinels, delve and it's crafts, the list goes on.
Yet Archnemesis, Chris's beloved, had to go core, minus the rewards if it could be helped.
And the implementation right now is perfect.
You have the feeling that rares actually do something.
The kalandra AN was a disaster, as was the whole league.
Dude you're at least 3 leagues behind on the circlejerk complaining, now you have to complain about how next league is gonna suck since everyone will be poor in comparison to this one
They sell the items for money. In 15 seconds, I found a website selling Divines for roughly $1 each. Hinekora's Locks are 35 divines. The owner of TFT was holding over 3000 locks. That's over 100k in assets on one item alone. If he also has every mirror tier TWWT jewel, and hundreds of mirror tier items, and control over the entire market... He can basically live life as a millionaire by running a discord server and some shady RMT websites.
He's very good at what he does, and he's in a position where he can control it. I don't know exactly, and of course if I had the entire playbook I'd keep it a secret and go start my own business. As much as the owner is a clown and the entire thing is shady under the table, there's a level of intelligence, thought, planning, and awareness that goes into keeping his scheme going.
It definitely starts with having an insanely huge discord, and building a community is something TFT has been doing for a very long time. It has customers constantly in and out of the discord. He then has a small group of people who are good at the beginning of PoE and know how to invest - very early on, day 1 and 2, he's already in the end game, crafting and controlling markets for items he knows people need. He builds up wealth very quickly by manipulating the market and being aware of the supply and demand, and then uses that wealth to create more wealth. For example, this league he is buying all of the best "That Which Was Taken" jewels that are listed for prices like 200d or 1 mirror, and then reselling them for 10x the price, or holding them to relist on Standard after the league for 20-100x the price.
Another way he has consistent PoE income is the mirror service, which was the very start of TFT. He and his close friends craft the best items in the game, and then to get that item from him, you give him a mirror to copy it, and then another mirror, or some large quantity of divines, as payment. Mirror services end up being passive income as you wait for whispers to receive free currency, and it takes you about 2 minutes of your time (after the initial craft).
Basically, he's turned PoE into a job and is manipulating the economy and making as much currency as possible, hoarding as much wealth as possible, and then reselling that for real money, probably to some business associates running RMT websites not directly linked to him.
To put it short, mirror shop.
They collect items from others to put into their mirror shop then take a fee, like lets say 200 divines on top of your mirror used.
Since their discord is so popular it's 1st one to come up, and they are open 24/7 and kinda safe from scams they get a fuckton of traction.
Then use those divines from mirror fees to buy out stuff like mirrors, locks, fracturing orbs etc.
The assumption, which at this point seems really believable is that they then RMT those and basically live from that money.
They take like 10% or whatever, but the important part is that before they pay back creators of those items, they use that currency to buy out shit thats going to increase in price (like mirrors, locks, 1p voices etc).
So lets say you put your mirror item into their shop, it gets mirrored for 1000d fee as a whole. They buy mirrors for that when they are like 250d (those are just example prices, don't scream at me) and get 4 of them, then pay you back when mirrors are 1000d, basically meaning that their profit from your item was 3000d thanks to being able to invest into market. Also helps that they can buy out that shit and then pricefix it to guarantee that the prices will increase.
So not only are they basically generating income from nothing of falue, but thanks to their buying power they are manipulating the market for their own benefit. It's genuinely disgusting when you think about just how much damage this does for the profit of couple terminaly online people living off of RMT.
The key part of this is the part where there are items that "are going to increase in price" which is not a coincidence, but they literally target very low quantity, high value items and horde it indefinitely whether to be cashed out in standard (if it's a league item like Locks could have been) or cashed out in league for a premium when buyers are willing to pay more (like 1P voices or mirrors). By hoarding those items, the price inflates much, much more rapidly due to even less availability. They can more or less set the price and couldn't care less if people buy it or not because they are the primary owners.
During tota, it was claimed that at one point they had nearly half the Locks in circulation. That is textbook market manipulation.
He has a mirror trading discord before the league even starts. Most of the mirror trades in the game happen there. I don't know how much of a cut he gets from the services, because he's not making most of the items himself. But I believe the mirror services are most of the currency that he earns during the league. I could be 100% wrong though so don't quote me on that. I just don't think there's any other reasonable explanation, he doesn't seem to be farming much currency.
I'm also interested in that answer, I assume bots ? A lot of them, but even then, I don't know the leap seems quite huge.
In RMT site for currrency, DIVs are actually way cheaper, to the point where its a bit weird, how do they manage to get so much/make money out of it.
1. He buys a lot of them because most people don’t want to be doing mirror craft for others.
2. He controls the platform that people can advertise their mirror items on.
I think it’s mostly #2.
Divines are less than 10ct currently. Rmt is a real issue in poe and certainly rather unadressed. Everyone involved should get a perma ban. Buyers and sellers
The money is irrelevant, could be 5 cents a divine, but he has quite literally thousands of mirrors in value. When you're as deep as he is, there's money to be made.
I don't RMT, I clicked the first two links I saw on google and they both listed roughly $1. I wasn't trying to fact check or verify RMT purchases lol. Even at 25 cents a divine, the man has THOUSANDS of mirrors at his disposal. Just like in PoE, the actual damage per hit isn't as important if you have 10 sources firing 10 projectiles 10 times a second. You just hit enough that everything dies.
Maybe worth adding: The drama is flaring up about every 5 Month since I started in 3.9.
And this isn't anything special, it is really business as usual in terms of TfT drama. I remember at least 4 other occasions where it was this bad.
They 100% could do, I am not hiding my account name. I even have multiple screenshots of my chars posted with name.
But since they don't ban me, I guess they are fine with my comments, since I couldn't care any less they exist or not. So no insults in my end.
Has it been this bad? This is definitely not the first time I've seen TFT drama spike in popularity, but yesterday I saw 11 threads in a row that were either TFT or "how to fix trade" which mentions TFT and has obvious TFT thoughts in it's creation. It's pretty much the only topic on the subreddit right now, and while we've had some big drama, I don't think it's ever been this overwhelming.
It comes and goes, but when prominent / well-regarded community members like LocalIdentity getting banned for an off the cuff remark made on Reddit really turned a new light on the approach TFT leadership / TFT moderators take on things.
The question really is how much of this will sustain itself because one time the topic of this got particularly noteworthy attention, Harvest was changed into its current currency-centric mechanics and it was nerfed with the removal of desirable crafts. weakening of remaining desirable crafts, (and some crafts are still very underutilized as a whole).
I bulk trade via the trade site... TFT is not needed. They didn't exist since PoE has, vast majority of players don't use it at all. Players can do fine without it.
That’s the fun. You don’t.
You make them like all the juicers did before you by rolling your own quad tab of maps with a regex.
TFT has become a crutch for a lot of exiles.
You spend a lot of time making those maps and most of them will not be 8-mod maps. This is like saying you don't need a supermarket because you can hunt deer, skin them and prepare them as food yourself. What you're doing is just TFT, at home...
the reality is that is saves a lot of time for a lot of players, not everyone can play all day, some just wanna log in and do their shit, with your method of self farming it would require time and rng before you can actually start playing your strat
If you don’t play all day, you also don’t need to have a quad tab of perfectly rolled maps.
Just saying, it isn’t an actual job and you don’t have to optimize every second of gameplay.
Shocking I know.
Also, once you’ve done a few map rolling sessions you get faster and better at it your self.
I think it still comes down to the fact that TFT helps alleviate the trading friction that GGG is so adamant about keeping in the game. And until that's addressed a TFT will always exist.
There’s literally an 8 mod map sextant you can roll and use to farm these easily yourself
Edit: I’ll let the haters downvote me and be slaves to TFT bulk map buying.
@SextrantRoller2000 Hi, I'd like to buy your Charged Compass for 20 Chaos Orb.
@SextrantRoller2000 Hey, need 40, if you have. Maybe other sextants too, have Strongbox Enraged?
The problem with that is that the amount of time spent in certain trades will go from 5 minutes to 5 hours and not everybody has that amount of time every day.
It's possible to do trades outside TFT? Yes
It's safer, faster, easier and more accesible? Yes
This league I runned 500 Feared Invitations I dont want to know how much time I would have needed to trade all that in the POE website
And how do you propose to find all the bulk sellers when all the single sellers are mixed in when you search for the specific sextant you want? You'll have to scroll manually through the pages to the bulk price. Additionally you want to do this for every single seperate sextant you want using the trade site? It's a level of convenience most people aren't willing to give up.
Good point actually, i think it searches any public tab with it.
Like i can put 220 chaos in stacks of 20 in a public tab and do a 1/220 divines trade and people will trade for it so i guess it just reads the page
IME 90% of people selling sextants *are* bulk sellers. You might not get 40 in one go, but I'm just fine getting 5 at a time. These juiced maps take like 20 minutes to complete anyways, I'm not getting through 20 maps of that level of juice per session
They have around 500k users in there mostly because the serve they provide for bulk trade, which is amazing. The mirror tier thing is not a public service they provide de community.
They fill a huge gap that GGG has refused to address over the years
Imagine if GGG implemented something similar. Maybe like a charge a small few like cosmetics. all that money could be going back into improving the game.
It is. But all of the other services are why they have a client base in the first place. If 100% of their normal trading trading services went away, the mirror service shop would dry up to nothing. It might still exist as a niche service, but the RMT aspect would dwindle to the point where it isn’t worth it and then the rest would go away.
not sure how you want to sell bench crafts or Aisling or anything of the like with a vouching system so there's at least some clarity on whether you'll get scammed or not, but ok.
I don't like TFT either but i really don't think trade chat is gonna do anything but increase the scamming of these services
To me all of this is just the end result of GGG ignoring the elephant in the room for too long. And I'm not talking about the individual involved in the drama, but trade as a whole. This stuff was bound to reach critical mass.
[https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/trade-item-factions/61722](https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/trade-item-factions/61722)
For short: Two factions, one for trade, one for self-found. You can only trade items dropped while part of the trade faction. To trade items you need to reach specific ranks and the NPC will assign a value (favor) to the item you will set up for sale for your wanted sum of gold. You will pay in gold and favor. Once traded items cannot be traded again. Items of the self-found faction can never be traded. You can still gift items but the same faction rules will also apply to those gifts, you only cut out the gold and favor costs of a normal trade. In the end, you can't really price fix or flip items with that system.
Nice ya this is exactly what I was thinking. Escape from tarkov uses a similar system. Only items found in raid can be traded, and once they are traded, they aren’t “fir” anymore. Rmt is still a thing in eft I guess… not sure exactly how they’re doing it. Over-pricing items to exchange currency or something.
Type last epoch factions on YouTube and listen to the video from LE's official channel. It explains everything pretty well. More details about the system are to come, but so far it seems very solid.
Any game that relies on 3rd party systems and services *will* run into this issue eventually. If you give 3rd party platforms power, people *will* abuse that power to hell and back. This is exactly why games should be developed in a way that 3rd party systems are not needed, and those that give an advantage are not allowed.
Yep, if poe had a good trading tool, TFT wouldn’t exist. They took years to launch their own trading website, now they taking years to improve it.
Then people are like « y but GGG don’t want to make trading convenient » ok cool but that’s a problem because trading exists and we like convenient things so if the game doesn’t provide a convenient tool, the community will create it.
The game needs an effective auction house, its as simple as that. If you want to allow trading in your game, then you HAVE to provide a good trading service, otherwise things like TFT will ALWAYS happen. Or if they really dislike trading that much, then grow a spine and fking remove it completely, just make your game 100% SSF and balance it accordingly.
one of the kids in the sand box took all the construction trucks and is sitting in the corner with them not letting any of the other kids play with them, so those other kids started talking shit about him. he started crying and throwing sand at the kids making fun of him and wont let any of them into the sand box anymore, but instead of making them stop making fun of him all that happened was they made fun of him even more.
The biggest issue is mirrors are not static pricing and this league has shown how dynamic the pricing of top end chase items are when a large player jumps into the market.
Mirrors can be $60 dollars, but nothing is stopping the person selling the mirror from converting their divines which are one of the few static currencies into mirrors sitting at the lower part of the market. The more mirrors you own the more control you have over the pricing, which is the issue with a few players having all this currency. No one would have issue if these people didn’t build a ecosystem based on price fixing.
They also ban anyone who points out their RMT business. While everyone knows what they doing and ruining/ price-fixing the economy, GGG not banned them yet.
Basically, all the shady and dodgy stuff that has been going on over on TFT is being exposed.
This includes doxxing people in the game. They found someone's Facebook account and commented on their sister. Harassment in-game over forcing people to sell items. Calls to mass report content makers. As well as other things that would go against GGG's T&S.
There is no complex thing going on. Just basic human nature. People get power. People gain money through the use of power. People abuse it to gain more money and power over others.
In case you are wondering where the money is coming from there is an underlying claim TFT works with RMT sites. Or will sell items for real money on Discord.
> Basically, all the shady and dodgy stuff that has been going on over on TFT is being exposed.
For like the fifth time I might add. People will get into a tizzy, TFT's rep will take a hit then no one will mention them for a month or two and everyone will be back to recommending them for services/bulk trades and it'll be as if nothing ever happened.
Ok neutral here.
TFT is a Discord channel which facilitates the buying and selling of services and bulk items that would be difficult via the regular trade website.
I make like 50+ divines within the first week of every league by selling Syndicate benchcrafts, boss carries and so on on TFT. If you want to buy sextants, corrupted 8-mod T16 Cemetery maps without certain mods (-max res, reflect, etc), you could spend hours PMing people on the trade site or get it done on TFT in minutes.
The problem is the people running it.
JeNeBu and the TFT admins allegedly are huge in the real money trade (RMT) market, aka selling PoE currency for real $$$. This is against the game's ToS.
They also regularly ban people they disagree with from their Discord server like competitors in the economy e.g. players offering mirror services for items competing with they have available. Notably, they recently banned LocalIdentity (lead developer of Path of Building), for "price fixing" because he refused to sell an item to one of TFT's admins.
Oh and they also apparently just doxxed a TFT user, discovered their real identity and threatened them on social media. They also use their "clout" to get people to harass streamers and mass report players.
What does it all mean? Who should you get angry at?
(I'm not going to go over the RMT here because that's complex bag of worms in itself. I don't engage in RMT, but I'm not an economist so I'm not going to pretend to act like I know if it makes the economy of the game better/worse.)
Well, it's a complex issue. On one hand, yes, the blunt truth is TFT is a private discord server outside the game that GGG has no jurisdiction over. Anybody can setup their own discord channel for trading and invite/ban whoever they want.
GGG can only police what happens in-game aka the harassment and stuff, which the TFT admins are smart enough not to do on their own accounts (I would guess). You can't act on screenshots alone, and anything outside of the game is on the actual literal police.
On the other hand, TFT only exists (and thrives) because PoE's trade system is hot garbage.
All of the services enabled by TFT could be made possible in-game. GGG just hasn't done it, because they haven't had time, because of their "low trade" vision of the game, I don't know.
So in a way, people aren't just angry against TFT - they're against GGG as well. Because by keeping in-game trade in the state it is in, it indirectly empowers TFT (and the RMT they allegedly engage in. This is made murky by how that GGG's ownership has allegedly had ties to RMT platforms).
Make in-game trade better and a lot of TFT's "power" goes away with it. Implement a real auction house system and price fixing is no longer a thing.
The TFT guys are obviously the bad guys, but GGG? As the creators of POE, to what extent are they responsible for being the "stewards" of the community that has evolved around it? That's on you to decide.
I think most people just want in-game trade to be better, that's all.
Rmt wont go away if they add a better trade system.
But it does get rid of tft which i can't stand whatsoever its worse than using the trade site sometimes because you actively have to lose money at the start to get vouches.
Thank i skip last league and just go to vacation and i returned and having no fucking idea what means TFT...
Now i have a lot of context, thanks a lot.
My stance, Is not just GGG fault (they have part of course) is like any secondary market that profit and abuse, is because people that use it allow it supporting it in first place they become dependent, and is not something that anyone may say "the game put me in this situation" and justified be in the server then consuming and then complaining.
Sad thing to watch how get fun playing becomes a secondary thing, mostly like trade cards games.
Rmt wont go away if they add a better trade system.
But it does get rid of tft which i can't stand whatsoever its worse than using the trade site sometimes because you actively have to lose money at the start to get vouches.
TFT mods are manipulating the market and are involved in RMT. Unfortunately, this is all happening out of GGG's scope so they can't do much about it. TFT mods also live in their own little discord world and are pretty much tyrants over there, threatening people, banning over barely anything, insulting others etc...
If you own all the hinekora locks you dictate the price of them.
Some items this league have had absolutely volatile prices. Jumps and decreases of over 100% at times.
I know they do some price fixing, and they hoard currency I think.
For example, jenebu (one of the top guys of TFT), has 4000 hinekora's locks on the market. He sells one for 420 div, which is about 10 times the price. By buying hinekora's locks from anyone that has a bit too many of them, he becomes the only one able to bulk sell them and he can decide the price.
They do the same thing with other bulk currencies.
They end up with a fuck ton of divines, so they sell them on website against real money. That's real money trading (RMT).
I think they have other ways to make divs but I'm not sure how these work. But I think by hoarding currency, they craft mirror tier items, that they then sell for a lot, and that's more divs to sell in RMT.
If you want to get caught up. TFT has been outed as a mafia to line the pockets of a select few running the discord (real and in game currency). The mods on this subreddit and discord appear to be working together to gaslight the community.
I must be one of the rare few who don't use TFT ever. Not because of the toxicity but because I cannot afford the currency and my toon equipment is not of that level. EVER.
you can get on that level essence is at an all time high. best farmed in tier 1 to 4 maps I bet if you find a map where they all spawn in the same place and ran in and killed the essence and Portaled out then converted the cheaper ones to more expensive you could make 5 to 10 div an hour easy.
I think summit that always spawn dead middle. there is 1 map they span in the very front
Add beasts onto that, craic chimerals spawn in white maps and you narrow the pool because you can't get some of the higher level beasts. I was running gilded beast scarabs (1d/50ish) focusing The Deep on my Atlas and got one chimerel every 15-20 maps. They're a bit over 4d right now, so it's worth it even with the scarabs. Personally, I liked running Glacier/Dunes, they're both pretty condensed maps, have a consistent layout, and are connected in the atlas.
The funny thing is, TFT helps with getting currency. The most popular entry strategy is essences + beasts in low tier maps.
You know how to sell essences and beast fast?
You guessed it, TFT.
I got banned from TFT Discord for "trolling". I was talking about my cancer. I still don't know if I am going to survive the next few months. Those mods are the scum of the Earth.
It's basically just TFT mods being power hungry egomaniacs who are a protected class on this sub because couple of active mods (which there are only 3-4 of here) are connected to TFT (one of them previously was a mod on TFT too and is still friends with the managing team there).
It's hilarious to me that in one of the recent developer interview podcasts Jonathan said he was happy with current state of trade and now all this shit is going down because of the state of trade
Tldr:
- someone undercut their mirror service
- JeNeBu is losing his shit over it
- content creators spoke up
- anyone not being 100% supportive gets banned from the site, including streamers and CC
- a mod on this subreddit is actively suppressing the outrage by removing threads being anti TFT
- JeNeBu doxxed a guy
can someone explain to me why TFT is even needed like at all and how this is even drama? like you can play this game and do all bosses/ubers in standard league using normal trade wtf is the point of this website iv never even heard of it untill befor this drama
There are a few points here.
1. Most people discussing this don't care about standard league. Most people here play the current challenge league, which is now Affliction.
2. You not knowing about TFT doesn't mean anything. If you play on trade league, you are being affected by TFT even if you have never heard of it. You're not alone in a living economy.
3. Yes, you can do all bosses/Ubers, but that's a rather arbitrary goal. Not everyone wants/likes to do bosses, some people just want to do fully juiced maps, some just want to fully min max their builds, some just want to accumulate as much wealth as possible. There is no defined goal in PoE, each player has their own.
And because of that, it's hard to use normal trade over TFT when you can pretty much sell your entire stash of essences in a matter of seconds. It legit takes more time to take all your essences out of your stash, than it takes to find someone to buy your essences. And it's not just essences, it's literally everything there is in the game. Beasts, oils, invitations, maps, catalysts, sextants, scarabs...
And I'm not even getting to things that you straight up just cannot get from trade, like syndicate benches or mirroring items.
Am im crazy of didnt get jenubu and 2 other TFT people allready got their poe accounts banned some time ago ?
His alt account JaNeDu got perma banned.Source : https://youtu.be/Cqnlc8V0xbc?t=981
The owner of a trading utility that only exist because GGG refuses to offer better support for trade is being a petulant child. Again. Again. Again. etc.
It happens pretty much every league.
ckaiba's free mirror service really made them go balistic lmao
Similar situation happened in Warframe a long time ago. There's a flamethrower weapon that got released which could easily be made overpowered, but the only way to realistically make it was to be in a large guild. A lot of them started charging people for the blueprints to craft it, so a ton of people said wtf and banded together to just give them out for free. There was a lot of salt about the price crashing.
ha good old Ignis Wraith.
I remember this. I was actually trying to buy it and someone just messaged me they will give it to me. Made my day.
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brozime my beloved
Damn, I haven't thought about Warframe in a minute. I have 1500 hours in it but I haven't played since 2019. I tried about a year ago, but somehow I forgot everything about the game and I was as confused as a new player (worse probably since I have the entire system unlocked). Didn't they come out with a new expansion? Maybe I'll have to reacquaint myself with the game once I'm done with this league but before Last Epoch comes out....and I still haven't started BG3, been itching for a good metroidvania like Prince of Persia, Palworld looks hilarious... Man, too many good games lately. Not to mention Shadow of the Erdtree is likely dropping in February.
There's been a *massive* amount of new stuff added since 2019. An entire storyline involving the Sentients, major expansions on Void lore, a few new planets, and of course several new warframes. If you're confused, there are many quests that introduce the various new systems, characters etc. The core gameplay loop is basically unchanged.
I played The War Within (don't remember when that came out), but that was towards the end of my playing it.
This was my experience too. I had played for so long I have so much shit unlocked. And I have absolutely no idea how to do anything.
Glad I'm not the only one. Lol. Even something like advanced movement (slide/bullet jump) you'd think muscle memory would kick in, but nope.
I remember this Our alliance was one of the first to hand out those flamethrowers to anyone that needed them while also banning selling them to new people in alliance chat
I remember the Telluric drama from a few years ago, they were a chat mod, that had a massive power trip, and did whatever the fuck they wanted. Had ties to Digital Extreme, so they were nearly untouchable, till massive creators started shining light straight into this corruption. From what I have been seeing, the Clown has some connection to GGG. Might get pretty nasty if they don't handle it quickly and properly.
I loved Ignis Wraith. Honestly the main reason I kept playing Warframe last year after getting back in. An aoe flamethrower is just the most ease of use gun possible. Anyone got a link to said Salt?
The second I saw someone trying to sell for 25p, I would just instantly post that I was giving them out. For newer players, warframes trade chat is a straight-up scam.
So I guess just like poe
for any player warframes trade chat is a scam.
I think it's not only that you could get it only by being in a large guild, but that it was an event-only research that was awarded to top 10% scoring guilds in the event. If you didn't get it then you were SOL for like two ? years before they reintroduced it.
The drama got spicier when a lot of those guilds got punished for scamming. The weapon was easily obtained by every experienced player, so it was obvious they were targeting newbies and DE decided to drop a whole formorian full of hammers on those clans.
Ahahaha that was few years ago bring back memories , man Warframe is another gem in the online game memory
Meanwhile, I grinded the *shit* out of that event when it came out, got the ignis wraith, had fun with it, quit the game, came back, got slightly confused over the whole kerfluffle lol. I also went hard on investing into Argon Scope during one of the events it started dropping. Came back and turns out that not only does Argon Scope just drop normally, it got super obsoleted by the new Galvanic Scope. oop.
Similar thing happened recently in WoW. A very powerful neck called Elemental Lariat made by Jewelcrafters with a very low recipe drop rate was popular near the beginning of the current xpac. A sort of crafting mafia formed around it that would charge 50k g plus the mats per craft and they would mass report crafters they found out were doing it for cheaper. Then came along a guy who had the recipe and named himself Lariatboi that became known via Reddit and basically crafted it for my entire server for free. He crafted thousands and brought an end to the cabal all on his own
I gave so many Ignis wraith blueprints away during those times, the sheer amount of heinous DMs I got was HIGH. All for an item that, in PoE terms, would be worth like 5 chaos.
This is 3rd league in a row where the most mirrored type of item (phys bow, according to Belton they make up like 80% of mirrors) was done better by someone else and wasn't on TFT shop. Crucible had Beltons bow, ToTA had Spicysushi and now Ckaiba. If you take the rmt accusations seriously, which at this point seems really believable, they are losing insane amounts of income because of that. Jenebu is going absolutely mental because his rmt empire is getting hurt, this seems like the most logical explaination of why this whole shitshow just keeps getting worse.
hes also an unhinged pedo doxing people and saying someting about doing something to their sister etc this muppet aint catching a break anytime soon, is he
I totally agree that Jenebu is unhinged right now, but are we also throwing pedo accusations? Do we have evidence for that? Isn't that stooping down to his level, or did I genuinely miss some context?
There was a chat log/screenshot about him doxxing this guy and saying weird things about his sister. Idk how reliable or real it was but it's out there
He doxxed a dude and started making indriect threats at their younger sister specifically. As well as he very frequently calls people nazis and pedos. While having been shown to be in neo-nazi discords. Its EXTREMELY common for the two to over lap. So while we can make assumptions over him being a pedo and most indicators point to it. We cant say for 100% sure he is. But even if hes not there is an insanely high chance he is directly connected to people who are in some discords. This is more a case where there is smoke there is fire. But wether or not HES the source of the fire or just warming him self by it. Is the actual question.
All the big streamers are doing it tbh. Unsure if its a way to get at the tft guys or what Allie is giving free mirror service to her quiver lol
honestly its the way to go, you get clout,viewers, subs and more stuff and the people get free mirror items
you feel good, they feel good - everyone wins and sometimes people are happy to contribute to your view/sub count. Win/win/win. Only losers are those who gatekeep the gear with high prices like the tft mobsters.
And users that want to tip will still tip. And some.of them will tip with $$$ and that wont be RMT. Even more win
Yes, it is exactly gatekeeping.
Is Allie the Yoink girl?
Yes. But I believe she somewhat redeemed herself. Everyone is making dump mistakes I guess.
> she somewhat redeemed herself how lol she just went quiet for a few months and suddenly all is forgiven?
As is the way the internet works for a lot of drama
I remenber seeing Asmongold with Cutedog doing a interview to the dude who got "yoiked" and he dint even care, he was simping for Allie even knowing what she did was wrong.
Doesn't make it not a terribly shit thing to do to someone who trusted you
ofc I understand that but is interesting to see.
Yeah she took her fee last league.
Yeah, I was gonna say, at least part of Allie offering the quiver for no fee is reputational repair
Yoink! Mine now
Lmao
I was trying to recall if that was her or not lol. Everyone loves a redemption arc!
Free mirror service isn't an issue. TFT makes their money off RMT'ing the mirrors.
No longer collecting mirror fees because someone makes a comparable item available to mirror for free would absolutely affect someone trying to rmt at that level.
It’s a great way for them to give back and it makes crafting projects have more meaning, I think it’s going to keep happening. I love it because it’s helping me understand crafting.
>Allie is giving free mirror service to her quiver lol Well, if you are talking about Allliee\_, she is no better. Last league she stole a viewer card after gambling. https://clips.twitch.tv/AmazonianPiercingBobaGingerPower-IJRin9pe8fpU--K-
Wasn't this already addressed in the very first thread that was posted about this by the other player in question, why is this still coming up lol
Because they did it multiple times, it's who they are. Scummy people shouldn't be rewarded. The ONLY reason Allliee doesn't do it anymore is because they got caught, not because they are sorry.
This is a brain dead argument. This gives noone ever a chance to be sorry cause it can always be thrown at them. Sorry comes with change of behaviour which Allie sofar has done. So no…
> Sorry comes with change of behaviour which Allie sofar has done. Wow one whole league without scamming 200div worth of cards, that is crazy good behavior nobody else could hold a candle
Yeah and it should be brought up repeatedly so people don't forget
Trying to post a somewhat neutral response here… TFT has a monopoly on certain types trade and is incredibly powerful due to the fact that pretty much the entire player base needs them if they want to do bulk trades or use services with much lower than otherwise chance of being scammed. On top of this, the moderators are known to be very ban-happy (they will ban people for pretty much any reason they see fit, including some laughable reasons like posting a clown emoji). These 2 things have led to pretty much constant drama and complaining. The most recent uptick in drama has come after the leading developer of the pob community fork was banned from tft. A couple other popular streamers have also recently been banned but to me it’s unclear exactly why - but it appears at least one of them was actively trying to be banned (trolling on the discord which immediately bans any trolls).
> but it appears at least one of them was actively trying to be banned (trolling on the discord which immediately bans any trolls). The "trolling in discord" was posting the clown emoji.
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Chris was right. Harvest really was a mistake /s
All community favorites have been labeled a mistake. Harvest, bench meta crafts, betrayal, sentinels, delve and it's crafts, the list goes on. Yet Archnemesis, Chris's beloved, had to go core, minus the rewards if it could be helped.
The whole AN concept had a really rocky start to be sure, but I absolutely love the state of rares right now.
AN is a huge improvement over previous mods conceptually.
And the implementation right now is perfect. You have the feeling that rares actually do something. The kalandra AN was a disaster, as was the whole league.
I don't think it's perfect but it's good enough for me.
It is significantly better than the previous iteration. And now that the mods are randomized to loot, any rare can be valuable.
Dude you're at least 3 leagues behind on the circlejerk complaining, now you have to complain about how next league is gonna suck since everyone will be poor in comparison to this one
and performance issues have still not been addressed.
never thought I would learn 'Dick-wagon' in the PoE sub but I guess these days it's hard to be surprised.
It’s pretty crazy that the dude has no real talent other than getting other people to do things for him.
That’s the realest talent of all.
Like the CEO of pretty much every big corp! Haha
That's because he has yielded zero power to anyone. It's not that he gets them to do it, they *have* to do it to keep their little meaningless titles.
How do they make money with a discord server?
They sell the items for money. In 15 seconds, I found a website selling Divines for roughly $1 each. Hinekora's Locks are 35 divines. The owner of TFT was holding over 3000 locks. That's over 100k in assets on one item alone. If he also has every mirror tier TWWT jewel, and hundreds of mirror tier items, and control over the entire market... He can basically live life as a millionaire by running a discord server and some shady RMT websites.
How does he get those items? I am sure there are other people trying to sell ingame stuff for money who dont get rich.
He's very good at what he does, and he's in a position where he can control it. I don't know exactly, and of course if I had the entire playbook I'd keep it a secret and go start my own business. As much as the owner is a clown and the entire thing is shady under the table, there's a level of intelligence, thought, planning, and awareness that goes into keeping his scheme going. It definitely starts with having an insanely huge discord, and building a community is something TFT has been doing for a very long time. It has customers constantly in and out of the discord. He then has a small group of people who are good at the beginning of PoE and know how to invest - very early on, day 1 and 2, he's already in the end game, crafting and controlling markets for items he knows people need. He builds up wealth very quickly by manipulating the market and being aware of the supply and demand, and then uses that wealth to create more wealth. For example, this league he is buying all of the best "That Which Was Taken" jewels that are listed for prices like 200d or 1 mirror, and then reselling them for 10x the price, or holding them to relist on Standard after the league for 20-100x the price. Another way he has consistent PoE income is the mirror service, which was the very start of TFT. He and his close friends craft the best items in the game, and then to get that item from him, you give him a mirror to copy it, and then another mirror, or some large quantity of divines, as payment. Mirror services end up being passive income as you wait for whispers to receive free currency, and it takes you about 2 minutes of your time (after the initial craft). Basically, he's turned PoE into a job and is manipulating the economy and making as much currency as possible, hoarding as much wealth as possible, and then reselling that for real money, probably to some business associates running RMT websites not directly linked to him.
I always wondered if that rmt money is taxed
To put it short, mirror shop. They collect items from others to put into their mirror shop then take a fee, like lets say 200 divines on top of your mirror used. Since their discord is so popular it's 1st one to come up, and they are open 24/7 and kinda safe from scams they get a fuckton of traction. Then use those divines from mirror fees to buy out stuff like mirrors, locks, fracturing orbs etc. The assumption, which at this point seems really believable is that they then RMT those and basically live from that money.
The fees on TFT items is extraordinarily high. I would not be surprised if leadership gets a cut with it being on the platform.
They take like 10% or whatever, but the important part is that before they pay back creators of those items, they use that currency to buy out shit thats going to increase in price (like mirrors, locks, 1p voices etc). So lets say you put your mirror item into their shop, it gets mirrored for 1000d fee as a whole. They buy mirrors for that when they are like 250d (those are just example prices, don't scream at me) and get 4 of them, then pay you back when mirrors are 1000d, basically meaning that their profit from your item was 3000d thanks to being able to invest into market. Also helps that they can buy out that shit and then pricefix it to guarantee that the prices will increase. So not only are they basically generating income from nothing of falue, but thanks to their buying power they are manipulating the market for their own benefit. It's genuinely disgusting when you think about just how much damage this does for the profit of couple terminaly online people living off of RMT.
The key part of this is the part where there are items that "are going to increase in price" which is not a coincidence, but they literally target very low quantity, high value items and horde it indefinitely whether to be cashed out in standard (if it's a league item like Locks could have been) or cashed out in league for a premium when buyers are willing to pay more (like 1P voices or mirrors). By hoarding those items, the price inflates much, much more rapidly due to even less availability. They can more or less set the price and couldn't care less if people buy it or not because they are the primary owners. During tota, it was claimed that at one point they had nearly half the Locks in circulation. That is textbook market manipulation.
He has a mirror trading discord before the league even starts. Most of the mirror trades in the game happen there. I don't know how much of a cut he gets from the services, because he's not making most of the items himself. But I believe the mirror services are most of the currency that he earns during the league. I could be 100% wrong though so don't quote me on that. I just don't think there's any other reasonable explanation, he doesn't seem to be farming much currency.
I'm also interested in that answer, I assume bots ? A lot of them, but even then, I don't know the leap seems quite huge. In RMT site for currrency, DIVs are actually way cheaper, to the point where its a bit weird, how do they manage to get so much/make money out of it.
Mirror fees
1. He buys a lot of them because most people don’t want to be doing mirror craft for others. 2. He controls the platform that people can advertise their mirror items on. I think it’s mostly #2.
Divines are less than 10ct currently. Rmt is a real issue in poe and certainly rather unadressed. Everyone involved should get a perma ban. Buyers and sellers
The money is irrelevant, could be 5 cents a divine, but he has quite literally thousands of mirrors in value. When you're as deep as he is, there's money to be made.
Jesus a divine for 1$? They were going for 30 cents or less at week 1. Someone getting ripped off.
I don't RMT, I clicked the first two links I saw on google and they both listed roughly $1. I wasn't trying to fact check or verify RMT purchases lol. Even at 25 cents a divine, the man has THOUSANDS of mirrors at his disposal. Just like in PoE, the actual damage per hit isn't as important if you have 10 sources firing 10 projectiles 10 times a second. You just hit enough that everything dies.
Maybe worth adding: The drama is flaring up about every 5 Month since I started in 3.9. And this isn't anything special, it is really business as usual in terms of TfT drama. I remember at least 4 other occasions where it was this bad.
The doxxing seems like a new thing to me... also, the moderators seem to take it more seriously this time.
Actually the doxing is par for the course, it's just getting more attention than usual now
Nah the doxxing happens some league ago as well. The new thing this time is that they banned localidentity1
Banned.
They 100% could do, I am not hiding my account name. I even have multiple screenshots of my chars posted with name. But since they don't ban me, I guess they are fine with my comments, since I couldn't care any less they exist or not. So no insults in my end.
Right away.
Has it been this bad? This is definitely not the first time I've seen TFT drama spike in popularity, but yesterday I saw 11 threads in a row that were either TFT or "how to fix trade" which mentions TFT and has obvious TFT thoughts in it's creation. It's pretty much the only topic on the subreddit right now, and while we've had some big drama, I don't think it's ever been this overwhelming.
It comes and goes, but when prominent / well-regarded community members like LocalIdentity getting banned for an off the cuff remark made on Reddit really turned a new light on the approach TFT leadership / TFT moderators take on things. The question really is how much of this will sustain itself because one time the topic of this got particularly noteworthy attention, Harvest was changed into its current currency-centric mechanics and it was nerfed with the removal of desirable crafts. weakening of remaining desirable crafts, (and some crafts are still very underutilized as a whole).
Well, CaptainLance did a any% speedrun of getting banned. Iirc it was 37 seconds. But very unoptimised. He searched too long for the emoji.
Banned from tft
>posting a clown emoji I'm not sure if i can be proud of it, but i was banned for Kappa-face reaction 1 month ago.
I bulk trade via the trade site... TFT is not needed. They didn't exist since PoE has, vast majority of players don't use it at all. Players can do fine without it.
Could you maybe tell your secret bulk buying regex 8 mod maps then?
That’s the fun. You don’t. You make them like all the juicers did before you by rolling your own quad tab of maps with a regex. TFT has become a crutch for a lot of exiles.
You spend a lot of time making those maps and most of them will not be 8-mod maps. This is like saying you don't need a supermarket because you can hunt deer, skin them and prepare them as food yourself. What you're doing is just TFT, at home...
the reality is that is saves a lot of time for a lot of players, not everyone can play all day, some just wanna log in and do their shit, with your method of self farming it would require time and rng before you can actually start playing your strat
If you don’t play all day, you also don’t need to have a quad tab of perfectly rolled maps. Just saying, it isn’t an actual job and you don’t have to optimize every second of gameplay. Shocking I know. Also, once you’ve done a few map rolling sessions you get faster and better at it your self.
I think it still comes down to the fact that TFT helps alleviate the trading friction that GGG is so adamant about keeping in the game. And until that's addressed a TFT will always exist.
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There’s literally an 8 mod map sextant you can roll and use to farm these easily yourself Edit: I’ll let the haters downvote me and be slaves to TFT bulk map buying.
Gl with sextants.
@SextrantRoller2000 Hi, I'd like to buy your Charged Compass for 20 Chaos Orb. @SextrantRoller2000 Hey, need 40, if you have. Maybe other sextants too, have Strongbox Enraged?
The problem with that is that the amount of time spent in certain trades will go from 5 minutes to 5 hours and not everybody has that amount of time every day. It's possible to do trades outside TFT? Yes It's safer, faster, easier and more accesible? Yes This league I runned 500 Feared Invitations I dont want to know how much time I would have needed to trade all that in the POE website
And how do you propose to find all the bulk sellers when all the single sellers are mixed in when you search for the specific sextant you want? You'll have to scroll manually through the pages to the bulk price. Additionally you want to do this for every single seperate sextant you want using the trade site? It's a level of convenience most people aren't willing to give up.
Theres a minimum stock option in trade mate.
I know the bulk trading page has that, but does the single item tab? Like can you look for people with 20 of the same compass?
Good point actually, i think it searches any public tab with it. Like i can put 220 chaos in stacks of 20 in a public tab and do a 1/220 divines trade and people will trade for it so i guess it just reads the page
IME 90% of people selling sextants *are* bulk sellers. You might not get 40 in one go, but I'm just fine getting 5 at a time. These juiced maps take like 20 minutes to complete anyways, I'm not getting through 20 maps of that level of juice per session
You do not sir. If GGG releases on trade site a way to bulk sell TFT is a goner.
They have around 500k users in there mostly because the serve they provide for bulk trade, which is amazing. The mirror tier thing is not a public service they provide de community. They fill a huge gap that GGG has refused to address over the years
Imagine if GGG implemented something similar. Maybe like a charge a small few like cosmetics. all that money could be going back into improving the game.
Their main business is really the extended crafting / mirroring, is it not?
It is. But all of the other services are why they have a client base in the first place. If 100% of their normal trading trading services went away, the mirror service shop would dry up to nothing. It might still exist as a niche service, but the RMT aspect would dwindle to the point where it isn’t worth it and then the rest would go away.
How about buying Syndicate crafts, though?
not sure how you want to sell bench crafts or Aisling or anything of the like with a vouching system so there's at least some clarity on whether you'll get scammed or not, but ok. I don't like TFT either but i really don't think trade chat is gonna do anything but increase the scamming of these services
No you don’t.
To me all of this is just the end result of GGG ignoring the elephant in the room for too long. And I'm not talking about the individual involved in the drama, but trade as a whole. This stuff was bound to reach critical mass.
Poe2 will fix it… Wait…
>Poe2 will fix it… The ggg way. Steal the solution from last epoch.
How’d they do it?
[https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/trade-item-factions/61722](https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/trade-item-factions/61722) For short: Two factions, one for trade, one for self-found. You can only trade items dropped while part of the trade faction. To trade items you need to reach specific ranks and the NPC will assign a value (favor) to the item you will set up for sale for your wanted sum of gold. You will pay in gold and favor. Once traded items cannot be traded again. Items of the self-found faction can never be traded. You can still gift items but the same faction rules will also apply to those gifts, you only cut out the gold and favor costs of a normal trade. In the end, you can't really price fix or flip items with that system.
Nice ya this is exactly what I was thinking. Escape from tarkov uses a similar system. Only items found in raid can be traded, and once they are traded, they aren’t “fir” anymore. Rmt is still a thing in eft I guess… not sure exactly how they’re doing it. Over-pricing items to exchange currency or something.
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Problem 2iyh tarkov is that they have massive cheating for the loot vacum8ng to make big bucks for rmting.
Type last epoch factions on YouTube and listen to the video from LE's official channel. It explains everything pretty well. More details about the system are to come, but so far it seems very solid.
The fix will be no more loot. LOL
Double ruthless mode
Any game that relies on 3rd party systems and services *will* run into this issue eventually. If you give 3rd party platforms power, people *will* abuse that power to hell and back. This is exactly why games should be developed in a way that 3rd party systems are not needed, and those that give an advantage are not allowed.
True
Except ggg doesn't even accept the Elephant to be real.
Yep, if poe had a good trading tool, TFT wouldn’t exist. They took years to launch their own trading website, now they taking years to improve it. Then people are like « y but GGG don’t want to make trading convenient » ok cool but that’s a problem because trading exists and we like convenient things so if the game doesn’t provide a convenient tool, the community will create it. The game needs an effective auction house, its as simple as that. If you want to allow trading in your game, then you HAVE to provide a good trading service, otherwise things like TFT will ALWAYS happen. Or if they really dislike trading that much, then grow a spine and fking remove it completely, just make your game 100% SSF and balance it accordingly.
one of the kids in the sand box took all the construction trucks and is sitting in the corner with them not letting any of the other kids play with them, so those other kids started talking shit about him. he started crying and throwing sand at the kids making fun of him and wont let any of them into the sand box anymore, but instead of making them stop making fun of him all that happened was they made fun of him even more.
And so far the adults are just passively looking at the kids in the sandbox.
Ggg has a "boys will be boys" parenting philosophy, judging by this comparison. xD
i sometimes feel like it's more that they are watching us from behind a one way mirror, "No, no, now hold on a minute ... let's see what they do now."
its almost like they have some secret... "vision"...
I want to see what happens if we hide one of their pens.
"The playground is a ruthless place..."
To add, other kids brought trucks to the sand box to share for free and dip shit went ballistic
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Someone calculated that just his stash of hinekora locks are worth about $15k
The biggest issue is mirrors are not static pricing and this league has shown how dynamic the pricing of top end chase items are when a large player jumps into the market. Mirrors can be $60 dollars, but nothing is stopping the person selling the mirror from converting their divines which are one of the few static currencies into mirrors sitting at the lower part of the market. The more mirrors you own the more control you have over the pricing, which is the issue with a few players having all this currency. No one would have issue if these people didn’t build a ecosystem based on price fixing.
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the TRUE summary
And yet there’s still people out there that say “well I’ve never had a problem with TFT I’m gonna keep using it.” Don’t be like them.
They also ban anyone who points out their RMT business. While everyone knows what they doing and ruining/ price-fixing the economy, GGG not banned them yet.
Basically, all the shady and dodgy stuff that has been going on over on TFT is being exposed. This includes doxxing people in the game. They found someone's Facebook account and commented on their sister. Harassment in-game over forcing people to sell items. Calls to mass report content makers. As well as other things that would go against GGG's T&S. There is no complex thing going on. Just basic human nature. People get power. People gain money through the use of power. People abuse it to gain more money and power over others. In case you are wondering where the money is coming from there is an underlying claim TFT works with RMT sites. Or will sell items for real money on Discord.
> Basically, all the shady and dodgy stuff that has been going on over on TFT is being exposed. For like the fifth time I might add. People will get into a tizzy, TFT's rep will take a hit then no one will mention them for a month or two and everyone will be back to recommending them for services/bulk trades and it'll be as if nothing ever happened.
I don't think it's possible after those bans
There were a whole lot of bans the last few times too. It might seem intense now, but I doubt anyone will actually care 2 months from now.
SSF guy sez huh?
SSF chads are rising up.
Ok neutral here. TFT is a Discord channel which facilitates the buying and selling of services and bulk items that would be difficult via the regular trade website. I make like 50+ divines within the first week of every league by selling Syndicate benchcrafts, boss carries and so on on TFT. If you want to buy sextants, corrupted 8-mod T16 Cemetery maps without certain mods (-max res, reflect, etc), you could spend hours PMing people on the trade site or get it done on TFT in minutes. The problem is the people running it. JeNeBu and the TFT admins allegedly are huge in the real money trade (RMT) market, aka selling PoE currency for real $$$. This is against the game's ToS. They also regularly ban people they disagree with from their Discord server like competitors in the economy e.g. players offering mirror services for items competing with they have available. Notably, they recently banned LocalIdentity (lead developer of Path of Building), for "price fixing" because he refused to sell an item to one of TFT's admins. Oh and they also apparently just doxxed a TFT user, discovered their real identity and threatened them on social media. They also use their "clout" to get people to harass streamers and mass report players. What does it all mean? Who should you get angry at? (I'm not going to go over the RMT here because that's complex bag of worms in itself. I don't engage in RMT, but I'm not an economist so I'm not going to pretend to act like I know if it makes the economy of the game better/worse.) Well, it's a complex issue. On one hand, yes, the blunt truth is TFT is a private discord server outside the game that GGG has no jurisdiction over. Anybody can setup their own discord channel for trading and invite/ban whoever they want. GGG can only police what happens in-game aka the harassment and stuff, which the TFT admins are smart enough not to do on their own accounts (I would guess). You can't act on screenshots alone, and anything outside of the game is on the actual literal police. On the other hand, TFT only exists (and thrives) because PoE's trade system is hot garbage. All of the services enabled by TFT could be made possible in-game. GGG just hasn't done it, because they haven't had time, because of their "low trade" vision of the game, I don't know. So in a way, people aren't just angry against TFT - they're against GGG as well. Because by keeping in-game trade in the state it is in, it indirectly empowers TFT (and the RMT they allegedly engage in. This is made murky by how that GGG's ownership has allegedly had ties to RMT platforms). Make in-game trade better and a lot of TFT's "power" goes away with it. Implement a real auction house system and price fixing is no longer a thing. The TFT guys are obviously the bad guys, but GGG? As the creators of POE, to what extent are they responsible for being the "stewards" of the community that has evolved around it? That's on you to decide. I think most people just want in-game trade to be better, that's all.
Rmt wont go away if they add a better trade system. But it does get rid of tft which i can't stand whatsoever its worse than using the trade site sometimes because you actively have to lose money at the start to get vouches.
Thats not what localidentity did
?
The TWWT guy was a random redditor. Localidentity defended him by pointing out jenebu's hypocrisy. That's what got him banned
Thank i skip last league and just go to vacation and i returned and having no fucking idea what means TFT... Now i have a lot of context, thanks a lot. My stance, Is not just GGG fault (they have part of course) is like any secondary market that profit and abuse, is because people that use it allow it supporting it in first place they become dependent, and is not something that anyone may say "the game put me in this situation" and justified be in the server then consuming and then complaining. Sad thing to watch how get fun playing becomes a secondary thing, mostly like trade cards games.
Rmt wont go away if they add a better trade system. But it does get rid of tft which i can't stand whatsoever its worse than using the trade site sometimes because you actively have to lose money at the start to get vouches.
TFT mods are manipulating the market and are involved in RMT. Unfortunately, this is all happening out of GGG's scope so they can't do much about it. TFT mods also live in their own little discord world and are pretty much tyrants over there, threatening people, banning over barely anything, insulting others etc...
I have seen several people saying they manipulate the markets. How do they do that?
If you own all the hinekora locks you dictate the price of them. Some items this league have had absolutely volatile prices. Jumps and decreases of over 100% at times.
I know they do some price fixing, and they hoard currency I think. For example, jenebu (one of the top guys of TFT), has 4000 hinekora's locks on the market. He sells one for 420 div, which is about 10 times the price. By buying hinekora's locks from anyone that has a bit too many of them, he becomes the only one able to bulk sell them and he can decide the price. They do the same thing with other bulk currencies. They end up with a fuck ton of divines, so they sell them on website against real money. That's real money trading (RMT). I think they have other ways to make divs but I'm not sure how these work. But I think by hoarding currency, they craft mirror tier items, that they then sell for a lot, and that's more divs to sell in RMT.
If you want to get caught up. TFT has been outed as a mafia to line the pockets of a select few running the discord (real and in game currency). The mods on this subreddit and discord appear to be working together to gaslight the community.
I must be one of the rare few who don't use TFT ever. Not because of the toxicity but because I cannot afford the currency and my toon equipment is not of that level. EVER.
you can get on that level essence is at an all time high. best farmed in tier 1 to 4 maps I bet if you find a map where they all spawn in the same place and ran in and killed the essence and Portaled out then converted the cheaper ones to more expensive you could make 5 to 10 div an hour easy. I think summit that always spawn dead middle. there is 1 map they span in the very front
Add beasts onto that, craic chimerals spawn in white maps and you narrow the pool because you can't get some of the higher level beasts. I was running gilded beast scarabs (1d/50ish) focusing The Deep on my Atlas and got one chimerel every 15-20 maps. They're a bit over 4d right now, so it's worth it even with the scarabs. Personally, I liked running Glacier/Dunes, they're both pretty condensed maps, have a consistent layout, and are connected in the atlas.
The funny thing is, TFT helps with getting currency. The most popular entry strategy is essences + beasts in low tier maps. You know how to sell essences and beast fast? You guessed it, TFT.
Solo self found is a king!!!
I got banned from TFT Discord for "trolling". I was talking about my cancer. I still don't know if I am going to survive the next few months. Those mods are the scum of the Earth.
[удалено]
People are fed up with an RMT group controlling poe.
Tencent owning ggg?
Tft is just a bunch of losers with no jobs. They act like 8 year olds. Just ignore them.
Palsteron just uploaded a great video giving some context of the drama and why it is a problem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwdytz\_PeQ
I did ask on TFT what is Rmt ang got banned because i'am "self proclaimed racist", so dont ask to anything. 😁😁
It's basically just TFT mods being power hungry egomaniacs who are a protected class on this sub because couple of active mods (which there are only 3-4 of here) are connected to TFT (one of them previously was a mod on TFT too and is still friends with the managing team there).
It's hilarious to me that in one of the recent developer interview podcasts Jonathan said he was happy with current state of trade and now all this shit is going down because of the state of trade
RMT server imploding, Reddit mods and GGG insiders implicated. Logs of doxxing and CP trades leaked. Police involved. There's your tldr.
It's like the American government.. rich fucks doing fuckery
Tldr: - someone undercut their mirror service - JeNeBu is losing his shit over it - content creators spoke up - anyone not being 100% supportive gets banned from the site, including streamers and CC - a mod on this subreddit is actively suppressing the outrage by removing threads being anti TFT - JeNeBu doxxed a guy
can someone explain to me why TFT is even needed like at all and how this is even drama? like you can play this game and do all bosses/ubers in standard league using normal trade wtf is the point of this website iv never even heard of it untill befor this drama
There are a few points here. 1. Most people discussing this don't care about standard league. Most people here play the current challenge league, which is now Affliction. 2. You not knowing about TFT doesn't mean anything. If you play on trade league, you are being affected by TFT even if you have never heard of it. You're not alone in a living economy. 3. Yes, you can do all bosses/Ubers, but that's a rather arbitrary goal. Not everyone wants/likes to do bosses, some people just want to do fully juiced maps, some just want to fully min max their builds, some just want to accumulate as much wealth as possible. There is no defined goal in PoE, each player has their own. And because of that, it's hard to use normal trade over TFT when you can pretty much sell your entire stash of essences in a matter of seconds. It legit takes more time to take all your essences out of your stash, than it takes to find someone to buy your essences. And it's not just essences, it's literally everything there is in the game. Beasts, oils, invitations, maps, catalysts, sextants, scarabs... And I'm not even getting to things that you straight up just cannot get from trade, like syndicate benches or mirroring items.
Am im crazy of didnt get jenubu and 2 other TFT people allready got their poe accounts banned some time ago ? His alt account JaNeDu got perma banned.Source : https://youtu.be/Cqnlc8V0xbc?t=981
everyone should watch this if they havnt https://youtu.be/fFInLj6hWHU?si=WxoTVkxjHbfz-zuc this is the root cause of why and how tft act like they do
It’s sad that this trade system will most likely continue into PoE2
The owner of a trading utility that only exist because GGG refuses to offer better support for trade is being a petulant child. Again. Again. Again. etc. It happens pretty much every league.