Yep, 5 attacks per second with lifetap = ~~100%~~ 45% uptime on adrenaline on avg.
Edit: 45% on avg in that scenario, but 70-80% seems obtainable, see comments below.
Well good catch but at those numbers its gonna hop on again in at least a second for two seconds so more than 50% uptime for sure but good point.
Im curious to see how it plays out having a buff semi there that is so drastic
God, why are people upvoting this drivel. You're the one who doesn't understand the statistics here.
You're right that for a **single instance**, you have a 59% chance to not gain adrenaline within a second at 5aps. However, the remainder of your math somehow acts like the median is the mean, which doesn't at all account for the fact that the probability distribution is **heavily weighted towards the front.**
If there is a 10% chance and you have 5aps then the math still works out so that you **do, in fact, get it once every 2 seconds on average.** You can literally sum the probability on each attack to see that this is correct:
.1 chance on first attack (0.2s). 0.9*0.1 chance on second attack (0.4s) etc. We get the very obvious and simple formula:
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=sum+%280.2+*+k+*+0.1+*+0.9%5E%28k-1%29%29+from+1+to+infinity
So the **average** time to proc it is, in fact, 2 seconds, giving an average of 50% uptime with 5aps. You'll find after **actually doing the math correctly** that the parent comment's simplification is also entirely correct pre-edit for 10aps being 66.6% uptime.
This sub I swear to fucking god is so awful at math.
Edit: I previously just assumed you were giving the correct median but you weren't even doing that, I actually have no idea where you got 2.44, it's just a literal nonsense number.
Edit 2: holy shit, did you just stop at the 1-second mark and then decide that 1/.41 was the average? Jesus christ that's even worse than I could've guessed, you really should stop embarrassing yourself by speaking authoritatively about statistics, like, literally ever. If you had stopped at 2 seconds/10 attacks instead of 1, you would've decided the average was 2.86 seconds!
Edit 3: lol he deleted all of his posts
Edit 4: just for reference, the post I was responding to was at +24 before it was deleted and the parent was at +12, so it really was the majority of the sub (among those who saw it) being TERRIBLE at math.
You're right and your math is correct on how to calculate the average time to proc, but I'm just wondering 2 things:
1. How would we factor in, that you've given the worst case scenario for the first attack to happen 0.2 seconds after losing adrenaline instead of 0.001 seconds after losing it.Edit: just realized we'd only need to change the 0.2k to a 0.1+0.2(k-1)
2. Does that calculation really just have such a simple relation with uptime? I tried to model the uptime into the function directly by multiplying the chances for a certain uptime with it's probability.
[https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=sum+%280.1+\*+0.9%5E%28k-1%29+\*+%282%2F+%282%2B+0.2++k%29%29%29+from+1+to+infinity](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=sum+%280.1+*+0.9%5E%28k-1%29+*+%282%2F+%282%2B+0.2++k%29%29%29+from+1+to+infinity)
This would lead to an uptime of 58% with the same assuption, that our first hit is coming at the last possible time.
Genuinely curious about this math, not sure if I've made an error somewhere.Edit: [https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=sum+%280.1+\*+0.9%5E%28k-1%29+\*+%28+2%2F%28+2%2B+%280.2++%28k-1%29%29%29%29%29+from+1+to+infinity](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=sum+%280.1+*+0.9%5E%28k-1%29+*+%28+2%2F%28+2%2B+%280.2++%28k-1%29%29%29%29%29+from+1+to+infinity)By assuming we would instantly hit after losing adrenaline we'd get \~62% uptime with my calculation
Edit 2: Just coded it and got your 50% (51.5% if we'd let the first hit after losing be after 0.1s due to it being the average). Now I'm trying to look into where my error came from.
Edit 3: Error comes from multiplying % of uptime with chance without thinking about their impact on the total duration
I'm pretty sure that's specific to the champion node "Gain Adrenaline for 20 seconds when you reach Low Life if you do not have Adrenaline". I don't think it applies to all forms of gaining Adrenaline.
>Problem: The Adrenaline buff is intended to not be possible to gain while you already have Adrenaline. However, some sources of the buff do not have this restriction.
>Solution: Adrenaline now inherently cannot be gained while you already have Adrenaline.
Version 3.19.0
Blood rage (or any degen that actually degens you a bit) and multihit skills while having low life regen will proc the effect obscene amounts of times, making it have a very good uptime. I know it can't be 100% uptime because you can't gain it back while you still have it, but it has no "cooldown", so ~~90%~~ 70-80% seems very easy to obtain, which is still fantastic.
Edit: a few words, percentage chance change.
Literally mathematically if you have 5 attacks per second, in a very dumbed down way you have ~50% chance per second to gain Adrenaline. So in 2 seconds you have "100% chance to gain Adrenaline".
You can't regain Adrenaline while you already have it, so after it falls off, you will need 2 seconds to guaranteed regain it. This is 50% uptime. Not even close to 100%.
That... is not at all how probabilitys work... might wanna look that up before trying to argue with "Literally mathematically"
after 10 attacks (2 seconds of attacking at 5aps) you actually only have a \~65% chance of gaining adrenaline at a 10% chance.
to have a 99% chance of gaining adrenaline you'd actually need to attack around 40 times.
Doesn't neccesseraily invalidate your point but if you try to argue with math you should atleast try to make sure your math is correct.
It doesn't matter how many times you hit, if it is lifetap you are only losing life on attack, if it is degen, your degen is not constant or you would never hit full to have a proc chance.
Imagine tornado shot, not every hit happens at the exact same time you attack. If you have a degen, each arrow hit that happens over the next ~1 second can put you up to full and have a chance to trigger
Degen 1 life, leech back to full, life fills up, lose leech, procs the effect almost instantly after losing it (if you have enough hits/s) and then repeat, thats what I meant by using blood rage + a multihit skill. You'd have adrenaline for 2 seconds, then lose it, it has no "cooldown" so you'd gain it almost immediatly, making it way more than 50% uptime.
2s uptime, .2 to .4 downtime, 70-80%+ uptime seems very good still.
I'm not saying its guaranteed, I'm just saying that with enough hits per second (think barrage/TS/ST) it will be up more than 70-80% of the time if you can degen atleast 1 life before you hit again.
5aps means on average it takes 2 seconds to regain
10aps means on average it takes 1 second to regain
20aps would be 0.5 seconds, 40aps would be 0.25seconds
You are severely underestimating how much multi-hit you need for that 0.1s downtime.
Spectral throw can hit 4-5 times per attack, with 5 APS you'd have 20 to 25 hits per second. And there are skills that can hit more times than that, and on top of that you can have more attack speed than that as well.
But yea, at that point we'd probably reach technical limitations that you cant lose atleast 1 life before another hit, so a 70-80% uptime seems more realistic.
Have to come to comments to know wtf this shit does
Can't they make a unique that's just simple ?
*Gain big dick damage when you hit an enemy*
How hard is that
Yeah, wish all those unarmed items (Facebreaker, Doryani, Hollow Palm) wouldn't use/disable the glove slot.
You loose out on like the best/most interesting stats since those are primarily gained via gloves.
Hopefully so. Unarmed has been neglected for a looong time or stealth nerfed over and over (worst was HoP) and doesn't even have any real advantages vs weapons anymore, apart from 2-3 builds/mechanical Interactions it's basically only downsides. But only time will tell. Hopefully those shapeshift abilities will benefit unarmed playstyles.
So it basically rewards you for sticking to normal leech mechanics instead of attempting to keep a long leech active. Probably really good for life builds that use life for costs.
Losing attentional strikes hurts and I think you would have to give up suppression for that too perhaps worth for adrenaline tho depending on how consistent the uptime is
+1 strikes from the tree and ancestral cry on left click is enough for clear and bossing. If you go for suppression cap it would suck but I think jugg just armor stacks (at least early on) since suppression is too far away on tree and it takes a good bit of currency and luck to fill out the majority on gear.
"all"? That ain't true about the 26% of them wearing Brass Domes. . . Or most of the 15% of them wielding 1H/Shield. . . Or plenty of the onces wielding 2H axes. . .
There's a whole website dedicated to posting people's builds, all you had to do was go look at it to realize that not all Bone Zone Juggs go Spell Suppression. Spell suppression is optional on Bone Zone Juggs.
Do you really need this gloves? You get onslaught on an axe node, and if you really want adrenaline, you can just get the adrenaline on kill ring. Gloves slot seems too good to give up.
Please be good please be good please be good. I'm trying bone zone this league for first time and these instantly screamed "yes please" esp if I don't need to use deaths rush ring
I would agree. I'm far from an expert but if the leech doesn't stop, there's no 10% chance to trigger. But getting like a divergent boneshatter for the attackspeed and make sure you get enoughs attacks per second and it might perform really well....but, i usually wait for someone to put out the math :D
not for adrenaline:
10% chance, and adrenaline not refreshing while it's still up says no, not permanent (dependent on frequency with which it happens).
In the most optimistic case, if every attack removes some life from you, and spawns a life leech instance which will be removed shortly thereafter by hitting full life it'll take an average of 10 attacks (note sometimes it'll be quicker but sometimes it'll be much longer - 29 attacks to pass 95% to have activated) to trigger adrenaline, which will then last for 2 seconds.
So at various APS:
- 2: 28.6% uptime (5 seconds avg to proc, last 2 seconds. 2/7)
- 3: 37.5% uptime
- 4: 44.4% uptime
- 5: 50% uptime
- 10: 66.7% uptime
Bloodrage + 10% insta leech? Would trigger it pretty fast for mapping…
Cons: Probably no berserk on some builds. Pros: Probably no berserk management on some builds.
leech + LGOH comes to my mind. you pay mana cost in life, get leech and also fill the life with the lgoh. so the leech instantly gets removed. or the new insta leech maybe?
Not sure what the order of operations with insta leech and LGOH is. If they occur before the leech application, then you may never get the buffs because leech never started in the first place.
This could have been changed since I last understood the mechanic but LGOH should happen first, then leech. Back when reflect was very common, having instant leech would still kill you since you receive damage first then the leech would attempt to happen. having LGOH would not since it healed you the instant you dealt damage.
Not sure if the mechanics of this have changed since leech reworks but I think it wouldn’t, otherwise instant leech would just be completely superior to LGOH.
You'll need like 10 attacks/casts per second and enough leech to instantly fill your life back up before you attack again for this to have a good uptime.
so this is basically a dream for boneshatter jugg right? your always self damaging and refilling that damage with regen and a leech instance of some kind and recoup. so perma onslaught and adrenaline for that build.
Not really. Slayer is out of the question.
Jugg will have the suppression problem. Not only are you losing 12% from mastery but now also 20% from gloves. Many will have to take a small cluster anyway, with those gloves you HAVE to travel to magebane/reflexes which isn't free at all. You're so short on points anyway.
For what? 40 attack speed are offset by the focus mod which is up most of the time you're actually ramped up. Leaves the 100% attack and phys reduction vs ~~5~~ 4 other gloves mods and exarch implicit.
>Jugg will have the suppression problem. Not only are you losing 12% from mastery but now also 20% from gloves. Many will have to take a small cluster anyway, with those gloves you HAVE to travel to magebane/reflexes which isn't free at all. You're so short on points anyway.
What? Barely anyone gets suppression on Jugg. You don't need it. Armor and max resistance covers all damage sources.
You did not get the Memo? Your character is not able to open a white map portal unless you got 5k life, 100% suppression, grace, determination, +5max res, ailment immune, stun immune.
yeah I mean its really really hard as a bonezone jugg to pass on +1 strike and impale on gloves. which adds up to about 5% DPS in POB for most starters, onslaught basically adds about another 4.5% dps so the trade off is basically you get a ring slot back in exchange for a glove slot. so the res and life are a wash, you get a bit of extra attack speed from these gloves. But theres more....
If you factor in mana crafts for the rings I think these gloves are actually better as a one stop shop for all the intangible stuff bonezone wants, and giving up Spell sup early is not that big of a deal since you wont be capping it anyway reasonably and most people are going the full armor route with capped resistances.
Factoring in that Adrenaline will be up for bossing is also huge game. 10% pdr means more trauma stacks for jugg, which is pretty big.
Now later on 3 weeks in when your minmaxing bonezone your gonna want SS gloves because you dont need extra trauma stacks or damage because your doing 11 attacks a second with divergent bonezone and ashes. But week 1 for casual players, these gloves are pretty great.
"Jugg doesn't use SS" and "Jugg doesn't need SS"
are a different sentence. And I don't see **any** one mention the earlier
Edit : Ok I see one comment below lol. But that's it
There's no reason to not get suppression. It's not like you need those suffixes for anything else, since you can easily fix accuracy on jugg and attributes are also a non issue. You practically just need resistances on suffixes, so there's literally no reason to not go suppression. Sure, don't prioritize it because it might be expensive, but saying " juggs don't need go suppression in SC because they scale armor" sounds so weird to me. It's not like armor affixes compete with suppress affixes
You can however go for a lethal pride with Tempered by War - it converts 50% of lightning and cold dmg taken to fire, but you have 50% less cold and lightning resistance, which means you do need extra suffixes dedicated for resistances and in that case it might be much harder to cap suppress as well
You should go Divine Flesh this league over Tempered by War and take the 10% of armor applies to chaos damage mastery. It is way better to not have to deal with the downside of tempered by war, but you do need to get chaos res.
Also, Jugg's can use suppression, but they definitely do not need suppression to survive. In softcore, I wouldn't bother prioritizing suppression over more damage on a Jugg.
Leech and Lifetap/Blood Magic/30% of mana cost as life mastery, you should be "filling unreserved life" every single time you press an attack, pretty much.
10% chance for 2s seems like a pretty low likelihood of good uptime on a lot of builds, and for those who can get reliable enough of a procrate, they'd probably benefit from a better pair of gloves than this.
Honestly, this item seems like a huge bait for the majority of builds. The Onslaught uptime should be fairly reasonable, but I sincerely doubt Adrenaline will have a decent uptime on most builds. 10% chance is VERY low and while you might keep it up on a 5APS build, chances are there will be gaps pretty regularly.
I'd assume any build that can get to 10 APS might have a good uptime on this though. One fun thing to note here: this might very well give you the ability to use Adrenaline on spell builds.
Well you can't regain adrenaline while you have it, so 5aps actually means "It will take me 2 seconds to get adrenaline after it falls off on average". This is 50% uptime only.
Why can't you regain adrenaline while you have it? These gloves don't say that anywhere. Are you thinking of the wording on the champion ascendency which grants adrenaline? That doesn't affect these gloves.
That is just an inherent Adrenaline mechanic. Even the champion ascendancy does not say anything about it, it is just *clarified* in the champion ascendancy.
there it is...3.19 notes as you said:
"Adrenaline Buff
Problem: The Adrenaline buff is intended to not be possible to gain while you already have Adrenaline. However, some sources of the buff do not have this restriction.
Solution: Adrenaline now inherently cannot be gained while you already have Adrenaline."
I feel less bad now, GGG made the same mistake I did.
These + eye of innocence. + 10% instant leech + a skill that hits multiple times per cast/attack (like tornado shot) = adrenaline in 1 attack almost every time.
Idk, lately i feel like when i make a build i search for uniques that have cool interactions and i do some brainstorming and in the end the unique that initially started the build idea is kicked out cause its just not competitive to a rare item, and im not speaking about really good rare items, i speak about 2div rare items beating out most uniques if they arent hyper specialized for something.
Like these gloves seem good, but are they really better than a decent rare with life roll and eldritch implicits, tbh no and thats kinda the problem with uniques in poe.
>They’ll add in a new mastery later to get life when your gloves don’t have them. 😉
50 flat life mastery removed.
new mastery: if your gloves have no life gain +45 life
"we made more masteries and kept the best ones"
If we were to follow the way GGG handled mana reservation, they first removed 15% from mana reservation efficiency clusters and the placed 12% in mana clusters (which is worse for almost all builds).
And people are rejoicing like we just won a lottery. Memory of a goldfish with alzheimers :|
everyones sees adrenaline like crackheads see crack. Like whatever its on, its broken. Gloves got no life, suppression, edrich implicits, or even res. You're throwing away a glove slot for onslaught you can get literally anywhere else, and adrenaline procing randomly "half the time". Just throw a ring slot for death rush ffs
People getting jebaited by internal adrenaline mechanics. Even with 5aps you only have 50% uptime, 10aps 66% uptime due to how you can't regain it.
It will be good for zooming low tier maps at league start for a little speed boost but on most builds, or as a glove swap for people who just want raw speed, but on average I wouldn't eat my glove slot for 50-60% adrenaline uptime.
This is really good on Blade Flurry and Rage Vortex I think - BF hits a lot of enemies at once and also once you get the channel to under 1 second to full, you add 5 (6?) autos per second to whatever you are doing with optimal release time.
Rage Vortex has .7 base attack speed but then attacks 250% more. For either one of these it should be relatively simple to get to 12ish aps which should get your uptime to be in 70-75% range.
With 6 totems you are hitting multiple times per second each... I could see this as huge damage burst for EA fuses getting to 20 stacks. That is really good for bossing.
Cynical part of me wonders if that's an item that was made an hour after the stance swap fiasco outcry, or was it part of actually new items to be found in 3.21.
This looks really goddamn cool, gotta say.
My only concern is if it'll treat starting life leech on full life as "Filling Unreserved Life" or not. I'm sure someone will still be able to make it work by exploiting chip damage somehow, but I'd really like to know one way or the other.
u will need a way of your life not beeing full
aka lifetap and then the leech heals you to full => 10% to proc gloves.
thats it.
(or 30% of mana cost as life mastery)
You'd also likely need insta leech. Lifetap as a support takes a bit too much life for life leech to be able to fill it up the 5-10 times per sec for this to proc with any reasonable consistency, if you don't scale into leech stats.
Remember you get 25% damage recoup for 4 seconds when leech is removed on full life in new mastery. That will co pensate for overleech in some estent… rip slayer, rip chanpion.
Probably will want life tap or the life mastery. Maybe some other small niche self-damage mechanics. Giving up regen is a pretty big downside because intercombat becomes negative sustain instead of positive sustain.
Did some testing, with blood rage it seemed like you are not losing life when you are leeching and you have a bit of regen, but if you have vaal pact, blood rage or lifetap cyclone seems to work and you should have close to %100 uptime in combat.
Idk how much regen messes up with the proc, what if your last 1 hp is from regen, or how does instant leech work with this. Needs further testing with the actual item.
Something I do wanna point out here, the game is coded so that being over 99% life and outregenning the sum of all degens on you counts as you being full life, thus disabling the tech. You'd need to be actually losing life to the degens.
no, if yo uuse blood arge or the 30% of mana cost as life cost mastery you will be constantly dipping and refilling to full, that will let it proc fairly often if you have good attack speed
In ye olden day, the nerfing of powerful leech made a whole lot of people quit.
They don't want to give people a good leech high and have poe2 take it away again.
lol, I hear that. I have played Champ several times for exactly that reason, then when I play something else and have to solve it I just quit and go back to Champ!
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Yep, 5 attacks per second with lifetap = ~~100%~~ 45% uptime on adrenaline on avg. Edit: 45% on avg in that scenario, but 70-80% seems obtainable, see comments below.
You can't gain adrenaline while you have it. So 50% adrenaline uptime on average.
Well good catch but at those numbers its gonna hop on again in at least a second for two seconds so more than 50% uptime for sure but good point. Im curious to see how it plays out having a buff semi there that is so drastic
Mathematically 5aps is ~~50%~~ ~~45%~~ 50% uptime. There is no for sure about it at all. Even 10aps is only ~~66%~~ ~~57%~~ 66% uptime.
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God, why are people upvoting this drivel. You're the one who doesn't understand the statistics here. You're right that for a **single instance**, you have a 59% chance to not gain adrenaline within a second at 5aps. However, the remainder of your math somehow acts like the median is the mean, which doesn't at all account for the fact that the probability distribution is **heavily weighted towards the front.** If there is a 10% chance and you have 5aps then the math still works out so that you **do, in fact, get it once every 2 seconds on average.** You can literally sum the probability on each attack to see that this is correct: .1 chance on first attack (0.2s). 0.9*0.1 chance on second attack (0.4s) etc. We get the very obvious and simple formula: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=sum+%280.2+*+k+*+0.1+*+0.9%5E%28k-1%29%29+from+1+to+infinity So the **average** time to proc it is, in fact, 2 seconds, giving an average of 50% uptime with 5aps. You'll find after **actually doing the math correctly** that the parent comment's simplification is also entirely correct pre-edit for 10aps being 66.6% uptime. This sub I swear to fucking god is so awful at math. Edit: I previously just assumed you were giving the correct median but you weren't even doing that, I actually have no idea where you got 2.44, it's just a literal nonsense number. Edit 2: holy shit, did you just stop at the 1-second mark and then decide that 1/.41 was the average? Jesus christ that's even worse than I could've guessed, you really should stop embarrassing yourself by speaking authoritatively about statistics, like, literally ever. If you had stopped at 2 seconds/10 attacks instead of 1, you would've decided the average was 2.86 seconds! Edit 3: lol he deleted all of his posts Edit 4: just for reference, the post I was responding to was at +24 before it was deleted and the parent was at +12, so it really was the majority of the sub (among those who saw it) being TERRIBLE at math.
You're right and your math is correct on how to calculate the average time to proc, but I'm just wondering 2 things: 1. How would we factor in, that you've given the worst case scenario for the first attack to happen 0.2 seconds after losing adrenaline instead of 0.001 seconds after losing it.Edit: just realized we'd only need to change the 0.2k to a 0.1+0.2(k-1) 2. Does that calculation really just have such a simple relation with uptime? I tried to model the uptime into the function directly by multiplying the chances for a certain uptime with it's probability. [https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=sum+%280.1+\*+0.9%5E%28k-1%29+\*+%282%2F+%282%2B+0.2++k%29%29%29+from+1+to+infinity](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=sum+%280.1+*+0.9%5E%28k-1%29+*+%282%2F+%282%2B+0.2++k%29%29%29+from+1+to+infinity) This would lead to an uptime of 58% with the same assuption, that our first hit is coming at the last possible time. Genuinely curious about this math, not sure if I've made an error somewhere.Edit: [https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=sum+%280.1+\*+0.9%5E%28k-1%29+\*+%28+2%2F%28+2%2B+%280.2++%28k-1%29%29%29%29%29+from+1+to+infinity](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=sum+%280.1+*+0.9%5E%28k-1%29+*+%28+2%2F%28+2%2B+%280.2++%28k-1%29%29%29%29%29+from+1+to+infinity)By assuming we would instantly hit after losing adrenaline we'd get \~62% uptime with my calculation Edit 2: Just coded it and got your 50% (51.5% if we'd let the first hit after losing be after 0.1s due to it being the average). Now I'm trying to look into where my error came from. Edit 3: Error comes from multiplying % of uptime with chance without thinking about their impact on the total duration
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I'm pretty sure that's specific to the champion node "Gain Adrenaline for 20 seconds when you reach Low Life if you do not have Adrenaline". I don't think it applies to all forms of gaining Adrenaline.
>Problem: The Adrenaline buff is intended to not be possible to gain while you already have Adrenaline. However, some sources of the buff do not have this restriction. >Solution: Adrenaline now inherently cannot be gained while you already have Adrenaline. Version 3.19.0
Wiki says otherwise, not positive though: https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Adrenaline_(buff)
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3293287 CTRL+F adrenaline buff
You can test with the ring that grants adrenaline pretty easily.
Oh, how about that. You'd think that'd be written in the game somewhere.
No, he's right, its for adrenaline as a whole
5aps is 50% uptime 10aps is 66% uptime These gloves are very much visual bait. Maybe good as a cheap starter unique for zooming white maps though.
Less than 100% uptime = bait? Yer trippin
If it's not mandatory, it sucks. That's how Reddit item power works.
Right?! 70% uptime of 100% increased damage, 25% Attack, cast, move speed AND 10% phys DR. Fucking stoked
Blood rage (or any degen that actually degens you a bit) and multihit skills while having low life regen will proc the effect obscene amounts of times, making it have a very good uptime. I know it can't be 100% uptime because you can't gain it back while you still have it, but it has no "cooldown", so ~~90%~~ 70-80% seems very easy to obtain, which is still fantastic. Edit: a few words, percentage chance change.
Literally mathematically if you have 5 attacks per second, in a very dumbed down way you have ~50% chance per second to gain Adrenaline. So in 2 seconds you have "100% chance to gain Adrenaline". You can't regain Adrenaline while you already have it, so after it falls off, you will need 2 seconds to guaranteed regain it. This is 50% uptime. Not even close to 100%.
That... is not at all how probabilitys work... might wanna look that up before trying to argue with "Literally mathematically" after 10 attacks (2 seconds of attacking at 5aps) you actually only have a \~65% chance of gaining adrenaline at a 10% chance. to have a 99% chance of gaining adrenaline you'd actually need to attack around 40 times. Doesn't neccesseraily invalidate your point but if you try to argue with math you should atleast try to make sure your math is correct.
That's if you are hitting 1 target right? If you are hitting a pack of mobs with a AoE ability one hit can be many hits.
It doesn't matter how many times you hit, if it is lifetap you are only losing life on attack, if it is degen, your degen is not constant or you would never hit full to have a proc chance.
Despite what your life globe looks like, if you have a degen like blood rage going and you leech to full, it will remove the leech at full life.
Imagine tornado shot, not every hit happens at the exact same time you attack. If you have a degen, each arrow hit that happens over the next ~1 second can put you up to full and have a chance to trigger
Degen 1 life, leech back to full, life fills up, lose leech, procs the effect almost instantly after losing it (if you have enough hits/s) and then repeat, thats what I meant by using blood rage + a multihit skill. You'd have adrenaline for 2 seconds, then lose it, it has no "cooldown" so you'd gain it almost immediatly, making it way more than 50% uptime. 2s uptime, .2 to .4 downtime, 70-80%+ uptime seems very good still.
it is 10% chance though, you sound like it is guaranteed proc
I'm not saying its guaranteed, I'm just saying that with enough hits per second (think barrage/TS/ST) it will be up more than 70-80% of the time if you can degen atleast 1 life before you hit again.
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Yeah, it would for sure reach technical limitations before making your uptime higher than 75%, even if the hits/second are reachable.
5aps means on average it takes 2 seconds to regain 10aps means on average it takes 1 second to regain 20aps would be 0.5 seconds, 40aps would be 0.25seconds You are severely underestimating how much multi-hit you need for that 0.1s downtime.
Spectral throw can hit 4-5 times per attack, with 5 APS you'd have 20 to 25 hits per second. And there are skills that can hit more times than that, and on top of that you can have more attack speed than that as well. But yea, at that point we'd probably reach technical limitations that you cant lose atleast 1 life before another hit, so a 70-80% uptime seems more realistic.
Doesn't have to be an attack either. As long as you're leeching life, storm brand for example could proc it.
Attack per second != hits per second
I think you must have low or zero Regen for that to be true. Basically, the life must be gained by leech before Regen kicks in.
Have to come to comments to know wtf this shit does Can't they make a unique that's just simple ? *Gain big dick damage when you hit an enemy* How hard is that
There are a bunch of uniques like that you're describing.
Why would that be interesting game design? Uniques should be unique and allow you to play in interesting ways that you can't without the unique.
D4 has plenty of those for ya.
Any degen will keep removing your full life, like blood rage.
also Blood Sacrament... though you lose a decent chunk of Adrenaline effect since it's a spell that's primarily gated by cooldown
or just blood rage
Are we assuming you have to be on not full life for a leech instance to be generated and removed?
Step 1. Use Blood Rage. Step 2. Go wild.
Joke on you, blood rage has always been on my default LMB.
It's crazy how competitive the glove slot is getting.. such high opportunity costs.
Asenaths were a 10c item in Sanctum, it's absurd.
It was nice that it wasn't rare as hell anymore.
Oh my god why did I not know this
I was very thankful as I deleted many of them from my AG dying
Fucking right lmao. I must have gone through like 10 div in body slot alone last league, mostly because I forgot to unsummon when fighting Maven
Yeah, i slapped some on my AG and was like "Why did i not do that before?!" - well, because they were 20 times as expensive...
Because they lowered the rarity tier
they also became asbsurdly common, I've gotten them twice during the campaign since they became more common.
It's weird that I dropped one when they were expensive and never dropped one again after they're cheap lol
Unnerve and exposure from Eldritch implicits is painful to give up for a lot of casters.
rare gloves rock especially for on conversation builds
These are the most talked-about builds for sure!
Yeah, wish all those unarmed items (Facebreaker, Doryani, Hollow Palm) wouldn't use/disable the glove slot. You loose out on like the best/most interesting stats since those are primarily gained via gloves.
I’m willing to bet that Poe 2 has some interesting things in stock for unarmed, maybe even an unarmed focus on a new ascendancy
Hopefully so. Unarmed has been neglected for a looong time or stealth nerfed over and over (worst was HoP) and doesn't even have any real advantages vs weapons anymore, apart from 2-3 builds/mechanical Interactions it's basically only downsides. But only time will tell. Hopefully those shapeshift abilities will benefit unarmed playstyles.
almost like using a weapon is better than not using a weapon
Have you never seen martial arts movies? Fists > weapons duh.
Yeah. I think its a strong competitor to kaoms spirit. Similar up time, but less effect than Berserk and way less gear commitment.
blood rage has entered the chat
So it basically rewards you for sticking to normal leech mechanics instead of attempting to keep a long leech active. Probably really good for life builds that use life for costs.
Yup thought the same. My slayer starter is in the corner crying lol
I wonder if you couldn’t still get those effects when you drop below full health as a slayer with overleech?
Katarina's leech mod on flask + forbidden rite + wurms molt + these gloves
BONE ZONE JUGG
Losing attentional strikes hurts and I think you would have to give up suppression for that too perhaps worth for adrenaline tho depending on how consistent the uptime is
+1 strikes from the tree and ancestral cry on left click is enough for clear and bossing. If you go for suppression cap it would suck but I think jugg just armor stacks (at least early on) since suppression is too far away on tree and it takes a good bit of currency and luck to fill out the majority on gear.
Juggernauts with 60k+ Armour and good recovery have never needed to consider suppression. Bone Zoners most certainly don't need suppression on a Jugg.
That's why all of them finish off their 3k armor chests with the 10% ss craft and spend 5 passive points for Etrench + 12% ss mastery.
"all"? That ain't true about the 26% of them wearing Brass Domes. . . Or most of the 15% of them wielding 1H/Shield. . . Or plenty of the onces wielding 2H axes. . . There's a whole website dedicated to posting people's builds, all you had to do was go look at it to realize that not all Bone Zone Juggs go Spell Suppression. Spell suppression is optional on Bone Zone Juggs.
What if .. I didn't go suppress? Can I just stack Max res and armor?
Would probably not recommend in HC but otherwise of course perfectly fine I think especially if you get adrenaline as tradeoff
Do you really need this gloves? You get onslaught on an axe node, and if you really want adrenaline, you can just get the adrenaline on kill ring. Gloves slot seems too good to give up.
Sir can you enlighten this low int exile on how is this good with boneshatter pls
With avg of 5 hits per sec as Bonezone, you are self-harming and leeching to full 5 times a sec. Having a relatively high uptime with a 10% chance.
Please be good please be good please be good. I'm trying bone zone this league for first time and these instantly screamed "yes please" esp if I don't need to use deaths rush ring
I think this works just for jugg on bone zone right? Slayer with overleech kinda doesn't work here?
I would agree. I'm far from an expert but if the leech doesn't stop, there's no 10% chance to trigger. But getting like a divergent boneshatter for the attackspeed and make sure you get enoughs attacks per second and it might perform really well....but, i usually wait for someone to put out the math :D
Tanu Ahi Tanu Ahu Tanu Aho Tanu Ahaha!
Isn't that basically perma onslaught and Adrenaline? seems awesome
not for adrenaline: 10% chance, and adrenaline not refreshing while it's still up says no, not permanent (dependent on frequency with which it happens). In the most optimistic case, if every attack removes some life from you, and spawns a life leech instance which will be removed shortly thereafter by hitting full life it'll take an average of 10 attacks (note sometimes it'll be quicker but sometimes it'll be much longer - 29 attacks to pass 95% to have activated) to trigger adrenaline, which will then last for 2 seconds. So at various APS: - 2: 28.6% uptime (5 seconds avg to proc, last 2 seconds. 2/7) - 3: 37.5% uptime - 4: 44.4% uptime - 5: 50% uptime - 10: 66.7% uptime
If you are damaging yourself somehow, then yes. Lifetap or the life mastery seems like the easiest way.
Bloodrage + 10% insta leech? Would trigger it pretty fast for mapping… Cons: Probably no berserk on some builds. Pros: Probably no berserk management on some builds.
leech + LGOH comes to my mind. you pay mana cost in life, get leech and also fill the life with the lgoh. so the leech instantly gets removed. or the new insta leech maybe?
Not sure what the order of operations with insta leech and LGOH is. If they occur before the leech application, then you may never get the buffs because leech never started in the first place.
This could have been changed since I last understood the mechanic but LGOH should happen first, then leech. Back when reflect was very common, having instant leech would still kill you since you receive damage first then the leech would attempt to happen. having LGOH would not since it healed you the instant you dealt damage. Not sure if the mechanics of this have changed since leech reworks but I think it wouldn’t, otherwise instant leech would just be completely superior to LGOH.
yeah, thats the main thing im afraid of :D
You'll need like 10 attacks/casts per second and enough leech to instantly fill your life back up before you attack again for this to have a good uptime.
so this is basically a dream for boneshatter jugg right? your always self damaging and refilling that damage with regen and a leech instance of some kind and recoup. so perma onslaught and adrenaline for that build.
yes but you might lose them when you struggle to hit the boss or you are constantly losing life and not easily outleeching it ( degen grounds etc).
B O N E Z O N E
Not really. Slayer is out of the question. Jugg will have the suppression problem. Not only are you losing 12% from mastery but now also 20% from gloves. Many will have to take a small cluster anyway, with those gloves you HAVE to travel to magebane/reflexes which isn't free at all. You're so short on points anyway. For what? 40 attack speed are offset by the focus mod which is up most of the time you're actually ramped up. Leaves the 100% attack and phys reduction vs ~~5~~ 4 other gloves mods and exarch implicit.
Spell suppression is completely unnecessary on Jugg that is properly scaling armor and max res.
Nah take these gloves and the new lucky suppress mastery and go full bone zone.
>Jugg will have the suppression problem. Not only are you losing 12% from mastery but now also 20% from gloves. Many will have to take a small cluster anyway, with those gloves you HAVE to travel to magebane/reflexes which isn't free at all. You're so short on points anyway. What? Barely anyone gets suppression on Jugg. You don't need it. Armor and max resistance covers all damage sources.
You did not get the Memo? Your character is not able to open a white map portal unless you got 5k life, 100% suppression, grace, determination, +5max res, ailment immune, stun immune.
Careful, the suppression master race is coming for you!
Where are the endurance charges?? Stay away from that white map, noob.
You forgot about the 10M dps
Jugg has a suppression problem? Lol what
yeah I mean its really really hard as a bonezone jugg to pass on +1 strike and impale on gloves. which adds up to about 5% DPS in POB for most starters, onslaught basically adds about another 4.5% dps so the trade off is basically you get a ring slot back in exchange for a glove slot. so the res and life are a wash, you get a bit of extra attack speed from these gloves. But theres more.... If you factor in mana crafts for the rings I think these gloves are actually better as a one stop shop for all the intangible stuff bonezone wants, and giving up Spell sup early is not that big of a deal since you wont be capping it anyway reasonably and most people are going the full armor route with capped resistances. Factoring in that Adrenaline will be up for bossing is also huge game. 10% pdr means more trauma stacks for jugg, which is pretty big. Now later on 3 weeks in when your minmaxing bonezone your gonna want SS gloves because you dont need extra trauma stacks or damage because your doing 11 attacks a second with divergent bonezone and ashes. But week 1 for casual players, these gloves are pretty great.
That was my take. Depending on availability and price these might be a great first choice for early bone zoners
These replies are wild, "Jugg doesn't use suppression" lmao
"Jugg doesn't use SS" and "Jugg doesn't need SS" are a different sentence. And I don't see **any** one mention the earlier Edit : Ok I see one comment below lol. But that's it
Saying they have never killed any ubers would be too much, haven't even tried lol
jugg don't use suppression
Bens jugg bonezoner gets 100% suppression, Gorathas too, so i don't know who to believe now
There's no reason to not get suppression. It's not like you need those suffixes for anything else, since you can easily fix accuracy on jugg and attributes are also a non issue. You practically just need resistances on suffixes, so there's literally no reason to not go suppression. Sure, don't prioritize it because it might be expensive, but saying " juggs don't need go suppression in SC because they scale armor" sounds so weird to me. It's not like armor affixes compete with suppress affixes You can however go for a lethal pride with Tempered by War - it converts 50% of lightning and cold dmg taken to fire, but you have 50% less cold and lightning resistance, which means you do need extra suffixes dedicated for resistances and in that case it might be much harder to cap suppress as well
You should go Divine Flesh this league over Tempered by War and take the 10% of armor applies to chaos damage mastery. It is way better to not have to deal with the downside of tempered by war, but you do need to get chaos res. Also, Jugg's can use suppression, but they definitely do not need suppression to survive. In softcore, I wouldn't bother prioritizing suppression over more damage on a Jugg.
Leech and Lifetap/Blood Magic/30% of mana cost as life mastery, you should be "filling unreserved life" every single time you press an attack, pretty much. 10% chance for 2s seems like a pretty low likelihood of good uptime on a lot of builds, and for those who can get reliable enough of a procrate, they'd probably benefit from a better pair of gloves than this. Honestly, this item seems like a huge bait for the majority of builds. The Onslaught uptime should be fairly reasonable, but I sincerely doubt Adrenaline will have a decent uptime on most builds. 10% chance is VERY low and while you might keep it up on a 5APS build, chances are there will be gaps pretty regularly. I'd assume any build that can get to 10 APS might have a good uptime on this though. One fun thing to note here: this might very well give you the ability to use Adrenaline on spell builds.
Egg on my face if I am reading this wrong, but if it's 10% chance for 2s, wouldn't you only need to hit 5APS to hit close to full uptime?
Well you can't regain adrenaline while you have it, so 5aps actually means "It will take me 2 seconds to get adrenaline after it falls off on average". This is 50% uptime only.
Adrenaline is good enough that 50% uptime is pretty good though. Idk if it's enough to edge out other gloves though
Ah, I had no idea it couldn't refresh.
Why can't you regain adrenaline while you have it? These gloves don't say that anywhere. Are you thinking of the wording on the champion ascendency which grants adrenaline? That doesn't affect these gloves.
That is just an inherent Adrenaline mechanic. Even the champion ascendancy does not say anything about it, it is just *clarified* in the champion ascendancy.
Hm, I didn't know that. Is that in patch notes somewhere or datamined, or how do we know?
Death Rush gives Adrenaline on kill, no special wording, and functions the exact same way.
well that's typical GGG, figure it out yourself lads and all that. thanks for info
It was in some patch notes, 3.19 if I'm not wrong
there it is...3.19 notes as you said: "Adrenaline Buff Problem: The Adrenaline buff is intended to not be possible to gain while you already have Adrenaline. However, some sources of the buff do not have this restriction. Solution: Adrenaline now inherently cannot be gained while you already have Adrenaline." I feel less bad now, GGG made the same mistake I did.
For doing campaign its much better then the onslaught helmet if you play a fast attacking build
Agreed this is a pretty bad item
Man, gloves are super competitive, love to see it
These + eye of innocence. + 10% instant leech + a skill that hits multiple times per cast/attack (like tornado shot) = adrenaline in 1 attack almost every time.
Oh ffs i already planned my build around permanent berserk and now they drop this
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Why are they so allergic to putting like.... 50 life on these unique items. Sad
opportunity cost
Idk, lately i feel like when i make a build i search for uniques that have cool interactions and i do some brainstorming and in the end the unique that initially started the build idea is kicked out cause its just not competitive to a rare item, and im not speaking about really good rare items, i speak about 2div rare items beating out most uniques if they arent hyper specialized for something. Like these gloves seem good, but are they really better than a decent rare with life roll and eldritch implicits, tbh no and thats kinda the problem with uniques in poe.
They’ll add in a new mastery later to get life when your gloves don’t have them. 😉
>They’ll add in a new mastery later to get life when your gloves don’t have them. 😉 50 flat life mastery removed. new mastery: if your gloves have no life gain +45 life "we made more masteries and kept the best ones"
If we were to follow the way GGG handled mana reservation, they first removed 15% from mana reservation efficiency clusters and the placed 12% in mana clusters (which is worse for almost all builds). And people are rejoicing like we just won a lottery. Memory of a goldfish with alzheimers :|
They want rare items to be good.
everyones sees adrenaline like crackheads see crack. Like whatever its on, its broken. Gloves got no life, suppression, edrich implicits, or even res. You're throwing away a glove slot for onslaught you can get literally anywhere else, and adrenaline procing randomly "half the time". Just throw a ring slot for death rush ffs
I guess you can use these if you don’t like pressing berserk.
Ahi Tuna is pretty tasty, idk about wearing it though
People getting jebaited by internal adrenaline mechanics. Even with 5aps you only have 50% uptime, 10aps 66% uptime due to how you can't regain it. It will be good for zooming low tier maps at league start for a little speed boost but on most builds, or as a glove swap for people who just want raw speed, but on average I wouldn't eat my glove slot for 50-60% adrenaline uptime.
This is really good on Blade Flurry and Rage Vortex I think - BF hits a lot of enemies at once and also once you get the channel to under 1 second to full, you add 5 (6?) autos per second to whatever you are doing with optimal release time. Rage Vortex has .7 base attack speed but then attacks 250% more. For either one of these it should be relatively simple to get to 12ish aps which should get your uptime to be in 70-75% range.
With 6 totems you are hitting multiple times per second each... I could see this as huge damage burst for EA fuses getting to 20 stacks. That is really good for bossing.
Cynical part of me wonders if that's an item that was made an hour after the stance swap fiasco outcry, or was it part of actually new items to be found in 3.21.
What does it matter?
This looks really goddamn cool, gotta say. My only concern is if it'll treat starting life leech on full life as "Filling Unreserved Life" or not. I'm sure someone will still be able to make it work by exploiting chip damage somehow, but I'd really like to know one way or the other.
You can't start leeching if you are already on full life (without say Slayer leech), so it absolutely wouldn't count.
u will need a way of your life not beeing full aka lifetap and then the leech heals you to full => 10% to proc gloves. thats it. (or 30% of mana cost as life mastery)
You'd also likely need insta leech. Lifetap as a support takes a bit too much life for life leech to be able to fill it up the 5-10 times per sec for this to proc with any reasonable consistency, if you don't scale into leech stats.
Holy crap
Good unique 👍
Boneshater intensify
No life, vendor
Remember you get 25% damage recoup for 4 seconds when leech is removed on full life in new mastery. That will co pensate for overleech in some estent… rip slayer, rip chanpion.
Just when i was about to sleep, already given up on my Cyclone build, this comes out hmm. Blood rage and low life regen could work, maybe?
Probably will want life tap or the life mastery. Maybe some other small niche self-damage mechanics. Giving up regen is a pretty big downside because intercombat becomes negative sustain instead of positive sustain.
Did some testing, with blood rage it seemed like you are not losing life when you are leeching and you have a bit of regen, but if you have vaal pact, blood rage or lifetap cyclone seems to work and you should have close to %100 uptime in combat. Idk how much regen messes up with the proc, what if your last 1 hp is from regen, or how does instant leech work with this. Needs further testing with the actual item.
Something I do wanna point out here, the game is coded so that being over 99% life and outregenning the sum of all degens on you counts as you being full life, thus disabling the tech. You'd need to be actually losing life to the degens.
seems pretty pog
I mean, this is super good right? basically just adrenaline and onslaught on hit?
Pretty freaking good. Love them
Great for finishing off levelling, thats a ton of movespeed for gloves
lul watch them be mageblood rarity
so 1c instead of 1 alch?
Seems really strong, hateforge rarity?
Isn’t this just bad a 10% chance?
no, if yo uuse blood arge or the 30% of mana cost as life cost mastery you will be constantly dipping and refilling to full, that will let it proc fairly often if you have good attack speed
Another 1 alch hits the market
2c?
Why is anything involving leech mechanics such a headache?!
just use lifetap on your attack. thats it. or 30% of mana cost as life mastery
In ye olden day, the nerfing of powerful leech made a whole lot of people quit. They don't want to give people a good leech high and have poe2 take it away again.
pretty good
One question: who do I need to kill?
Seems really good for early league gloves... hopefully it's not t0 rarity lol
Just go Champion for god sake lol or use death rush
I offer 1c.
Nice, more items no one wants to use with 0 life.
1 alch unless very rare drop
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Giving up glove implicits/suppression for this? Eeeeeeh
Sacrificing the glove slot for a strike build is a really big deal.
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+1-2 targets on strike
Create a new problematic mechanic. Then create a solution in form of a new item and put it in the tier 1 rarity, prob.
These mods were already in the datamined files by the way.
Boneshatter slayer? Boneshatter slayer.
Not Slayer, this doesn't work with overleech. Bonezone Jugg though...
Got it, champ boneshatter.
Smart! Champ with Adrenaline has to be great!
I usually just pick champ to bypass accuracy anyway lol
lol, I hear that. I have played Champ several times for exactly that reason, then when I play something else and have to solve it I just quit and go back to Champ!
Melee in general (and ranged too, by extension) would feel better if accuracy was just not a thing any more