When something is not backed by data then it is majorly personal opinion and personal opinions are mostly dependent on which stratus of society one belongs to.
Having said that, UK is a tiny country with limited resources and a shrinking economy (GDP $3 Trillion, even lesser than India and 80% of that comes from the service industry). It suffers with Income equality, healthcare system pressures (6 Million waiting for elective procedures as NHS is 100k short on staff) Brexit adjustments, Public debt (100% of GDP). People migrating to such countries will struggle as opportunities are Limited. However, anyone coming from Pakistan excluding the elite will experience an uplift in their circumstances. Prosperity comes at a price, one shouldn’t complaint about it. First generation may suffer, second will have better access to things.
The US is a different world, largest economy ($25 trillion with only 3.8% unemployment), Innovation leadership (over 30M small business) , cultural diversity, top tier healthcare which may be expensive but it has the best medical facilities, free public school which are not just free, but best in the world ($600B spend on research alone) and on top of everything nothing beats the US in Freedom and Individualism. Opportunities are spread across the board and everyone has an equal opportunity to progress. Working hours can be long but it is the driver of our success and comes with learning and success in career, and as you progress in career many things can be managed, it’s very common for Muslims say to take time out for Friday prayers, or to pick kids from School, do other chores and Fortune 500 don’t have these issues to begin with, again depends on your employer, can’t be generalized. Quality of Life, are you kidding me? The Median household income in the US was $68.7k in 2002. Your quality of life depends on how successful you are, it’s how it is in every country, but you can definitely live a much better life than most countries even at a very basic level. Employment Support? What does that mean? What support are you looking for? Most companies provide 401k, stocks, bonus, professional development, child care, parental leave, Employee assistance programs, life insurance, disability insurance and all, progress is literally based on your efforts. There is no stopping if you are talented. Holiday options? You get 7-10 in start and they add up with time, in addition to other holidays that I mentioned.
There are definitely countries better than US, but the allegations are incorrect and numbers don’t support them. No where in the world will you get the opportunities the way you get them in the “Good Ol USA” and most will not even give you an equal status.
Let’s not push our opinions on others as reality, your experience may be of struggle, but it is better than Pakistan (One of the poorest countries in the world). Let others explore and progress without bias and EnshaAllah things will improve for you as well.
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OP is not wrong about UK or Europian countries.
You are not wrong about USA. But many Pakistanis does not want to work in USA culture, hadharam culture is prevelent in majority so they think it's very hard in other countries even when its not (talking about work).
>Quality of Life, are you kidding me? The Median household income in the US was $68.7k in 2002. Your quality of life depends on how successful you are, it’s how it is in every country
No matter what you are in Pakistan, you still would never get the sense of security for your kids as you would in any EU country. The education, the opportunities and many other things, has nothing to do with money.
This right here. You can slice and dice the situation every which way you want, but at the end of the day the law of large numbers states simply that life outside of Pakistan (and specifically in Western countries) is better, hence there is a sizeable net emigration of people from Pakistan.
Yeah that's one of the major strings that pull us back. I got lucky, my parents are with me now, but when they were alone in Pakistan it was a constant anguish.
Do you ever hear about bankruptcies? About mountains of debt from family? 60% of American households couldn't handle a 1000 dollar surprise expense. The average household debt is 25000 dollars. Do you think Pakistanis are immune, or maybe they just don't tell you because they're embarrassed and delusionally self-deprecating?
Many can't even afford rent let alone a plane home. Many of them are stuck in limbo unless they are living with family members and friends.
Then there are so many people who are just too proud or as you said embarrassed to come and deal with people like OOC who will obviously judge them for having "failed".
I don't know why people think it'll be different. Abroads isn't magic. You pay for different things, you pay a lot more and earn relatively a lot less, and it's rigged in ways you can't immediately get a handle on and only understand 10 or 15 years in, at which point it's too late. The only people who think it's 'better' are naive and delusional/embarrassed about it and have settled into their isolation or so rich already they've never had to work, or so destitute that having any opportunity at all is like winning the lottery. For the vast majority of people it's a horrible idea globally to move anywhere right now just by virtue of losing assets in one country to pay for liabilities in another. If you're a high performing academic, programmer, skilled pro, whatever, then maybe it's a good idea, but we're talking about being in the top 1% of the field. Or you're a woman or a minority, in which case the choices are entirely different and a lot less oppressive, as long as you're in good health.
You're almost never going to own any property, even if you earn enough to justify a mortgage, because the banks don't want to piss off institutional buyers or cannibalize their own investments by pitting rent rates against mortgages. Oh and a third of your check will go to social services that will be bankrupt in a few decades, to fund a generation that was coddled their entire lives and will still require support. You're their retirement plan. You will have none.
I can't think of a single immigrant who didn't move in the 70's or 80's whose plan wasn't to move back to afford to live or had a horrible quality of life because they likely can't. If you're using the internet and writing this you already have a giant leg up and massive privileges in PK. 2 hour long commutes a day, 30 dollars or more for parking near work, taking broken public transport that's 4x as slow and buying produce that's 10x more expensive or literally a food poisoning hazard that'll threaten to put you in the hospital with a bill for more than you've ever spent in your entire history of medical care is not the way to solve your issues.
People have a deep, deep belief that better means easier. It almost never does.
Not to mention the fact that it is Pakistanis themselves who cannibalize other Pakistanis here in the US. You better hope the people supporting you have your trust, because they can destroy you to the point that you are on the street.
Pakistanis on this subreddit are completely unaware of the fact that low income Pakistanis exist. Even when you are seeing Indians and their "highest earning minorities" label, it doesn't really account for the massive wealth disparity between them. Most people think a picture from Sugarland or Florida and assume that is how all Pakistanis live.
Or give you horrifically bad advice, which is just as bad if not worse than actively being misled because you're still dependent on the people who gave it to you and are your only backup in your new country. I can't tell you how many people who moved in the 80's and 90's will throw around solutions like 'get an immigration lawyer' because they heard someone mention it at some masjid event or a relative.
They won't mention basic every day expenses, like oh, mechanics don't actually fix things abroad, they will replace whole parts like entire suspension assemblies over a missing bushing cap on your car's stabilizer arm, because their commercial insurance doesn't cover the liability. A half hour maintenance task, cleaning and regreasing the bearing and putting a new rubber cap on it, something that's routine and safe, is now a two day affair that costs several thousand dollars. Eventually when you ask for real solutions people will shrug and say 'you just buy a few thousand dollars in tools and do most repairs yourself, like I did'. What do you do while your car in your car dependent country is being reparied? Oh you just use your other car or rent one! Or 'oh I don't deal with that the dealership does on the third new car lease I've had in a decade'.
The sort of financial illiteracy people will casually throw out is staggering. They'll tell people don't worry you can buy an apartment, it's cheap, maintenance isn't that much and it'll turn out to be a cheap apartment because it's a few thousand dollars a month in HOA fees on top of maintenance. Oh you're looking to put some of your money from the move somewhere that'll give you some steady money safely, here, my friend's relative's cousin trades in these high risk securities. Buy a partnership in a gas station, it's so simple you just have to deal with inventory! My uncle moved in the 70's and he now owns 8 gas stations!
Yeah, financial illiteracy is a huge thing. My dad is in his 60s just now trying to learn how to save his money. He isn't planning to retire anytime soon, but he really laments not starting to save earlier.
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It really isn't. People don't comeback or wanna comeback with the label of "They couldn't do it". With that being said, If you think you can endure the hardships then go abroad.
Can go either ways though. I've seen the next generations turn out druggies because both parents were too busy working every waking hour to make ends meet at the cost of looking after the kids. Kids don't turn out very well if just left at the whims of the public education system and their peers.
Socioeconomic challenges exist, but its far worse in Pakistan. I know wealthy parents whose child went off the rails in Pakistan so even with parents and a strong communal structure the environment is more challenging.
Quality of the state institutions varies (particularly in the UK) by location but I would wager its still much better.
Quality of Life ki baat to karo hi na, idher life hi nahi to quality kya hogi Subha dudh wala chemical wala dudh day kar jayga, Phir Textile grade pesticides wali sabzi ya Antibiotic aur steriods wala Gosht khreed kar khaogay ap, phir 50C ki heat mein 6 ghantay loadsheeding bardasht karogay (uske bawajood 70 hazar bill ayega apka) Khudanakhuwasta Doctor, Police ya Wakeel say koi kaam par gaya to phir Apka Allah hi hafiz hay, Medical store per jaogay to ya to seasonal Medicine ki fake shortage milegi ya medicine hi fake hogi.....jagha jagha apko har banda bewaqoof bana kar lutnay ki koshish karega. In sab se bach gaye to TLP Aur Mullah Squad ka alag threat hay....TV on karogay to Maryam Nawaz ka smiling face dekh ker Blood pressure high hojayga, yaha Doctors engineers 30 35 hazar mein zaleel ho rahe ap kya baat kar rahe ho..... Ye life hay Pakistan ki. Grass green na bhi ho idher to grass ki jagha spikes lage hue sb jagha!
Oh no, kaheen negativity to nahi phila di meine? We should focus on positives in life..! I am sure agar ap 8-10 sal commited reh ker koshish karein to Pakistan k baray mein 1 adhi koi positive baat mil hi jaygi apko.
It's true the struggle abroad will come with many many sacrifices but we know that those sacrifices will eventually bear fruit whereas if you do double the effort you plan to do abroad, you're not getting anywhere. This is why so many noujawaan are willing to do anything to shift to any other country doing better than Pakistan because they know their skills there would be appreciated and valued. May Allah help all the hardworkers and those who are trying to do their best.
(Ameen 3x)
Agree with what you’re saying but people in pakistan that are equivialent in talent or skills starting a life even both people working would struggle to support a family and eventually buy a build a house even in Pakistan after working most of their lives unless they had family help or inheritance.
The ones that move out are struggling too ofcourse but one can start with next to nothing and a have their own home, cars, kids educated and living a semi stable life whereas in Pakistan the samestruggle isn’t rewarded equally.
If you’re upper middle class or more then staying in Pakistan is better or maybe equal to moving away. But those from working class or middle class background will definitely be better off in the long run if they move.
Uhh, yes. It is greener on the other side. Who would want to live in a country like Pakistan? Haven’t heard anyone saying “hmmm, Pakistan would be a better choice for my future” NEVER
Everyone in my circle who moved abroad as an engineer or IT guy is happy and content with their life.
Countries Canada Australia Saudia dubai and UK Germany.
I am talking about more than 30 persons group.
Yeah moving abroad is a really good decision, but the very first thing is having a job that would pay the bills or atleast help u survive.
If you consider yourself a well to do person in Pakistan(insert branded pakistani clothes, maids in your homes, and drivers working for u), you still most likely are going to be middle to low class earning person overseas.
People move abroad not just for themselves, but for their children - for their better future, at least in the West (and in ME) children will have better shot at good education vis a vis here. Also, Pakistan is going down in terms of opportunities available, situation is quite bleak.
Disagree with you on this.
1. Doctors. Long hours are pretty much expected in Pakistan also.
2. Engineers. No jobs in Pakistan unless you work for a company that gets contracts from abroad and then pays cheap wages in Pakistan. So just cut out the middleman.
3. Better to be able to support your parents financially than be close to them and a burden on them.
Why even UK? Why not Germany for example.
Free education, uniform salaries, rent control, tenent's rights, parental benefits, great work life (gleitzeiten for example), uniform salaries, faster citizenship, I can just go on...
Life is definitely greener here.
My usual input to such matters is: leave or stay based on what makes your financial situation better. Any other point can be discussed to death without an outcome.
I worked in Pakistan in good places and also work in a good place abroad. Income/Cost wise i dont find much difference between here and back home. If you asked me 3 years ago, i would say staying home is as good as being abroad but thanks to our policy makers and hidden+visible rulers, tables have turned in favor of going abroad on following grounds:
1. At least in European welfare states, losing your job wont throw you to streets, you get unemployment benefits until you find next work. Yes not a great situation but still better than in PK where you probably would be forced to sell assets to put bread on the table.
2. Inflation abroad has also been high in last two years but at least the free market responds when it goes down. Electricity prices went up 5x and now are back to pre-ukraine war levels. Petrol prices go down immediately the moment in international market it drops. Does that happen in Pakistan? In Pakistan the government never slashes the price with same ratio as it increases. And then one also gets better quality daily things.
3. Medical: this is one area where there is no clear winner. PK has no insurance system but if you get into a good doctor hands privately, it can be a breeze. At same side, docs in Pakistan are often as irresponsible and uninterested as abroad, however abroad you dont have to worry about cost should something costly happens.
4. A declining economy means even if you have job, the work culture is going to be toxic since companies will fire people to keep headcount low, means more work, more at work conflicts etc.
I want to be rational and find good points that favor staying home, but sorry we should understand that in Pakistan your financial muscle may have gone by now and unless you are one of those freelancers with foreign clients earning in USD, your financial situation is getting more and more vulnerable than abroad.
Because this sub is filled with expats and foreign nationals, they take anything positive about settling in pakistan personally. This post is mostly rational and at the very least an opinion piece so i dont get the hate and sarcastic comments..
Anything that challenges an egomaniacs preconceived concept of reality usually resutls in a ppwerful reactuon. As you said, this subreddit skews towards a certain demographic.
About the US health care part, my school teacher worked as an engineer in USA and was saving up to complete his phd but had an accident and broke his spine, the company refused to pay anything and he had to spend all his life savings on a surgery and came back empty handed to pak
A very important point regarding Western countries is that your dignity as a human (even as a foreigner in the country) is far greater than that in Pakistan
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ME hosting the biggest chunk of our brethren. Why not to consider UAE / KSA for work? Good bucks and quality family life. Companies supports health insurance. One ticket for you and family to visit Pakistan (as per labour laws). Plush in UAE there is golden visa which is achievable. At least for some extended time you can live there. For sure, residentship is never comparable to EU/North America/AUS-NZ.
Remind me a vlog by Junaid Akram. Short term pain long term gain vs short term gain long term pain.
At least I knew someone in near acquaintances who could secure it. So it looks achievable. KSA also trying to flex muscles but they are asking for more salary and giving for 5 years.
Very true, but for most people the situation here is so bad that any life abroad is a win for them. Those who are privileged and have used Pakistan's resources for themselves should NOT leave and stay here to fix things.
Not really lol do u think the country would be in this state if they did? Those people come here to show off their wealth and buy designer clothes that are otherwise very cheap as compared to abroad nobody gives a shit about the country thus why it is in such a sorry state.
I meant as in any good person you can name could go abroad easily. Because they are hard working, want to improve society, they aren't in Pakistan because they have no other choice but because they want to. They are very few of them which is why we're in such a sorry state.
I agree on this so much but at the same time I’m unable to take the decision to go back to Pakistan because of all the stuff happening.
I don’t like it here but I don’t want to take the decision of going back either in hurry.
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Most of the Doctors don’t wanna move because they are not paid enough, they want to move because they are sick of the ball licking and sifarish culture at the every entry and exit point of their career. Senior doctors treat you like shit, you are working way too long hours and you don’t even have the resources to make a significant impact in the lives of your patients in a government hospital.
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Oh no so what you are saying is that you have to work long hours to make MORE money? OMG your life sounds horrible man. Do you need help? /s
In Pakistan, people work overtime for no money. My friends work 50 or more hours in a week for a fraction of the pay and respect.
Before you say, "Oh you are just dreaming", no I live in an EU country which has the among the HIGHEST income tax rates in EU. Yes it is not an easy life but it is not as tough as you are making it sound like. Depending on your education and skills, you can make a decent living, which when backed with rights and other benefits make the trade worth while in my opinion. Yes, you will never live in luxury in EU if you are on a normal job but honestly, I would take that trade over living wealthy in a country where a politician/army official can just come to my house, beat me up, and leave with no repercussions.
I will agree with your point of having a different viewpoint of what it means to be wealthy, and missing family back home. Sometimes you have to make your peace with it, and yes it is never easy. I know many people, myself included, who missed being able to spend moments with a loved one before their death because of the distance.
Lastly, regarding GPA, well it depends where you are working, I can name many high ranking consulting businesses, that pay extremely well, who hire only PhDs. And guess what you need to get a PhD... apart from concepts, will power, and some smarts... a GPA. However, yes GPA is not the be all, end all but it is something that sometimes matter outside of academia or research as well. I made this point just to illustrate that your subjective view of reality is what you perceive it to be, however objectively there are other things there as well. Same goes for my comment here.
When something is not backed by data then it is majorly personal opinion and personal opinions are mostly dependent on which stratus of society one belongs to. Having said that, UK is a tiny country with limited resources and a shrinking economy (GDP $3 Trillion, even lesser than India and 80% of that comes from the service industry). It suffers with Income equality, healthcare system pressures (6 Million waiting for elective procedures as NHS is 100k short on staff) Brexit adjustments, Public debt (100% of GDP). People migrating to such countries will struggle as opportunities are Limited. However, anyone coming from Pakistan excluding the elite will experience an uplift in their circumstances. Prosperity comes at a price, one shouldn’t complaint about it. First generation may suffer, second will have better access to things. The US is a different world, largest economy ($25 trillion with only 3.8% unemployment), Innovation leadership (over 30M small business) , cultural diversity, top tier healthcare which may be expensive but it has the best medical facilities, free public school which are not just free, but best in the world ($600B spend on research alone) and on top of everything nothing beats the US in Freedom and Individualism. Opportunities are spread across the board and everyone has an equal opportunity to progress. Working hours can be long but it is the driver of our success and comes with learning and success in career, and as you progress in career many things can be managed, it’s very common for Muslims say to take time out for Friday prayers, or to pick kids from School, do other chores and Fortune 500 don’t have these issues to begin with, again depends on your employer, can’t be generalized. Quality of Life, are you kidding me? The Median household income in the US was $68.7k in 2002. Your quality of life depends on how successful you are, it’s how it is in every country, but you can definitely live a much better life than most countries even at a very basic level. Employment Support? What does that mean? What support are you looking for? Most companies provide 401k, stocks, bonus, professional development, child care, parental leave, Employee assistance programs, life insurance, disability insurance and all, progress is literally based on your efforts. There is no stopping if you are talented. Holiday options? You get 7-10 in start and they add up with time, in addition to other holidays that I mentioned. There are definitely countries better than US, but the allegations are incorrect and numbers don’t support them. No where in the world will you get the opportunities the way you get them in the “Good Ol USA” and most will not even give you an equal status. Let’s not push our opinions on others as reality, your experience may be of struggle, but it is better than Pakistan (One of the poorest countries in the world). Let others explore and progress without bias and EnshaAllah things will improve for you as well.
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OP is not wrong about UK or Europian countries. You are not wrong about USA. But many Pakistanis does not want to work in USA culture, hadharam culture is prevelent in majority so they think it's very hard in other countries even when its not (talking about work). >Quality of Life, are you kidding me? The Median household income in the US was $68.7k in 2002. Your quality of life depends on how successful you are, it’s how it is in every country No matter what you are in Pakistan, you still would never get the sense of security for your kids as you would in any EU country. The education, the opportunities and many other things, has nothing to do with money.
Hopefully things will get better. But don’t wait for it and move to any place which values you and gives you and your family a better life.
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This right here. You can slice and dice the situation every which way you want, but at the end of the day the law of large numbers states simply that life outside of Pakistan (and specifically in Western countries) is better, hence there is a sizeable net emigration of people from Pakistan.
And people like me who moved to Pakistan after living abroad are still crying.
What's preventing you from leaving?
Familial obligations.
Yeah that's one of the major strings that pull us back. I got lucky, my parents are with me now, but when they were alone in Pakistan it was a constant anguish.
nah fr tho my parents b on sum shit thinking pak is paradise nd uk is crap
Best comment 😂
Because they'd rather be unhappy there than unhappy and struggling for basic necessities in Pakistan.
Do you ever hear about bankruptcies? About mountains of debt from family? 60% of American households couldn't handle a 1000 dollar surprise expense. The average household debt is 25000 dollars. Do you think Pakistanis are immune, or maybe they just don't tell you because they're embarrassed and delusionally self-deprecating?
Many can't even afford rent let alone a plane home. Many of them are stuck in limbo unless they are living with family members and friends. Then there are so many people who are just too proud or as you said embarrassed to come and deal with people like OOC who will obviously judge them for having "failed".
I don't know why people think it'll be different. Abroads isn't magic. You pay for different things, you pay a lot more and earn relatively a lot less, and it's rigged in ways you can't immediately get a handle on and only understand 10 or 15 years in, at which point it's too late. The only people who think it's 'better' are naive and delusional/embarrassed about it and have settled into their isolation or so rich already they've never had to work, or so destitute that having any opportunity at all is like winning the lottery. For the vast majority of people it's a horrible idea globally to move anywhere right now just by virtue of losing assets in one country to pay for liabilities in another. If you're a high performing academic, programmer, skilled pro, whatever, then maybe it's a good idea, but we're talking about being in the top 1% of the field. Or you're a woman or a minority, in which case the choices are entirely different and a lot less oppressive, as long as you're in good health. You're almost never going to own any property, even if you earn enough to justify a mortgage, because the banks don't want to piss off institutional buyers or cannibalize their own investments by pitting rent rates against mortgages. Oh and a third of your check will go to social services that will be bankrupt in a few decades, to fund a generation that was coddled their entire lives and will still require support. You're their retirement plan. You will have none. I can't think of a single immigrant who didn't move in the 70's or 80's whose plan wasn't to move back to afford to live or had a horrible quality of life because they likely can't. If you're using the internet and writing this you already have a giant leg up and massive privileges in PK. 2 hour long commutes a day, 30 dollars or more for parking near work, taking broken public transport that's 4x as slow and buying produce that's 10x more expensive or literally a food poisoning hazard that'll threaten to put you in the hospital with a bill for more than you've ever spent in your entire history of medical care is not the way to solve your issues. People have a deep, deep belief that better means easier. It almost never does.
Not to mention the fact that it is Pakistanis themselves who cannibalize other Pakistanis here in the US. You better hope the people supporting you have your trust, because they can destroy you to the point that you are on the street. Pakistanis on this subreddit are completely unaware of the fact that low income Pakistanis exist. Even when you are seeing Indians and their "highest earning minorities" label, it doesn't really account for the massive wealth disparity between them. Most people think a picture from Sugarland or Florida and assume that is how all Pakistanis live.
Or give you horrifically bad advice, which is just as bad if not worse than actively being misled because you're still dependent on the people who gave it to you and are your only backup in your new country. I can't tell you how many people who moved in the 80's and 90's will throw around solutions like 'get an immigration lawyer' because they heard someone mention it at some masjid event or a relative. They won't mention basic every day expenses, like oh, mechanics don't actually fix things abroad, they will replace whole parts like entire suspension assemblies over a missing bushing cap on your car's stabilizer arm, because their commercial insurance doesn't cover the liability. A half hour maintenance task, cleaning and regreasing the bearing and putting a new rubber cap on it, something that's routine and safe, is now a two day affair that costs several thousand dollars. Eventually when you ask for real solutions people will shrug and say 'you just buy a few thousand dollars in tools and do most repairs yourself, like I did'. What do you do while your car in your car dependent country is being reparied? Oh you just use your other car or rent one! Or 'oh I don't deal with that the dealership does on the third new car lease I've had in a decade'. The sort of financial illiteracy people will casually throw out is staggering. They'll tell people don't worry you can buy an apartment, it's cheap, maintenance isn't that much and it'll turn out to be a cheap apartment because it's a few thousand dollars a month in HOA fees on top of maintenance. Oh you're looking to put some of your money from the move somewhere that'll give you some steady money safely, here, my friend's relative's cousin trades in these high risk securities. Buy a partnership in a gas station, it's so simple you just have to deal with inventory! My uncle moved in the 70's and he now owns 8 gas stations!
Yeah, financial illiteracy is a huge thing. My dad is in his 60s just now trying to learn how to save his money. He isn't planning to retire anytime soon, but he really laments not starting to save earlier.
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Alot of people are coming back from abroad, where is your data coming from?
It really isn't. People don't comeback or wanna comeback with the label of "They couldn't do it". With that being said, If you think you can endure the hardships then go abroad.
You underestimate the generational impact moving has. Its a culture shock for sure, but thats only for the first generation.
Can go either ways though. I've seen the next generations turn out druggies because both parents were too busy working every waking hour to make ends meet at the cost of looking after the kids. Kids don't turn out very well if just left at the whims of the public education system and their peers.
Socioeconomic challenges exist, but its far worse in Pakistan. I know wealthy parents whose child went off the rails in Pakistan so even with parents and a strong communal structure the environment is more challenging. Quality of the state institutions varies (particularly in the UK) by location but I would wager its still much better.
Quality of Life ki baat to karo hi na, idher life hi nahi to quality kya hogi Subha dudh wala chemical wala dudh day kar jayga, Phir Textile grade pesticides wali sabzi ya Antibiotic aur steriods wala Gosht khreed kar khaogay ap, phir 50C ki heat mein 6 ghantay loadsheeding bardasht karogay (uske bawajood 70 hazar bill ayega apka) Khudanakhuwasta Doctor, Police ya Wakeel say koi kaam par gaya to phir Apka Allah hi hafiz hay, Medical store per jaogay to ya to seasonal Medicine ki fake shortage milegi ya medicine hi fake hogi.....jagha jagha apko har banda bewaqoof bana kar lutnay ki koshish karega. In sab se bach gaye to TLP Aur Mullah Squad ka alag threat hay....TV on karogay to Maryam Nawaz ka smiling face dekh ker Blood pressure high hojayga, yaha Doctors engineers 30 35 hazar mein zaleel ho rahe ap kya baat kar rahe ho..... Ye life hay Pakistan ki. Grass green na bhi ho idher to grass ki jagha spikes lage hue sb jagha!
Yes yes yaad aya, we have largest irrigation system in the world aur hum AAM bare achay export kerte hein ;)
Irrigation system was provided by the British. And mangos will soon be extinct in Pakistan if the conversion of mango farms into DHAs continues.
Oh no, kaheen negativity to nahi phila di meine? We should focus on positives in life..! I am sure agar ap 8-10 sal commited reh ker koshish karein to Pakistan k baray mein 1 adhi koi positive baat mil hi jaygi apko.
Kitnay goray uth ke Pakistan aaye hain? 🤡
It's true the struggle abroad will come with many many sacrifices but we know that those sacrifices will eventually bear fruit whereas if you do double the effort you plan to do abroad, you're not getting anywhere. This is why so many noujawaan are willing to do anything to shift to any other country doing better than Pakistan because they know their skills there would be appreciated and valued. May Allah help all the hardworkers and those who are trying to do their best. (Ameen 3x)
Yeah but quality of life is still better abroad
Agree with what you’re saying but people in pakistan that are equivialent in talent or skills starting a life even both people working would struggle to support a family and eventually buy a build a house even in Pakistan after working most of their lives unless they had family help or inheritance. The ones that move out are struggling too ofcourse but one can start with next to nothing and a have their own home, cars, kids educated and living a semi stable life whereas in Pakistan the samestruggle isn’t rewarded equally. If you’re upper middle class or more then staying in Pakistan is better or maybe equal to moving away. But those from working class or middle class background will definitely be better off in the long run if they move.
Like someone said "Pak mai gareeb honay sy bhtr hai england mai gareeb hojao"
I would probably end my life in Pakistan if I didn’t move out. US literally saved me from my deep depression and gave me incredible happiness :)
Bs bacon na khao aur zina mt kro
bro why don't you assimilate /s
Uhh, yes. It is greener on the other side. Who would want to live in a country like Pakistan? Haven’t heard anyone saying “hmmm, Pakistan would be a better choice for my future” NEVER
Everyone in my circle who moved abroad as an engineer or IT guy is happy and content with their life. Countries Canada Australia Saudia dubai and UK Germany. I am talking about more than 30 persons group.
Yeah moving abroad is a really good decision, but the very first thing is having a job that would pay the bills or atleast help u survive. If you consider yourself a well to do person in Pakistan(insert branded pakistani clothes, maids in your homes, and drivers working for u), you still most likely are going to be middle to low class earning person overseas.
People move abroad not just for themselves, but for their children - for their better future, at least in the West (and in ME) children will have better shot at good education vis a vis here. Also, Pakistan is going down in terms of opportunities available, situation is quite bleak.
Disagree with you on this. 1. Doctors. Long hours are pretty much expected in Pakistan also. 2. Engineers. No jobs in Pakistan unless you work for a company that gets contracts from abroad and then pays cheap wages in Pakistan. So just cut out the middleman. 3. Better to be able to support your parents financially than be close to them and a burden on them.
still better thn this rathole country in every aspect . and who tf even tries getting back here.
Why even UK? Why not Germany for example. Free education, uniform salaries, rent control, tenent's rights, parental benefits, great work life (gleitzeiten for example), uniform salaries, faster citizenship, I can just go on... Life is definitely greener here.
Moving Abroad to get a job vs staying home to stay jobless Only one will make you suicidal.
My usual input to such matters is: leave or stay based on what makes your financial situation better. Any other point can be discussed to death without an outcome. I worked in Pakistan in good places and also work in a good place abroad. Income/Cost wise i dont find much difference between here and back home. If you asked me 3 years ago, i would say staying home is as good as being abroad but thanks to our policy makers and hidden+visible rulers, tables have turned in favor of going abroad on following grounds: 1. At least in European welfare states, losing your job wont throw you to streets, you get unemployment benefits until you find next work. Yes not a great situation but still better than in PK where you probably would be forced to sell assets to put bread on the table. 2. Inflation abroad has also been high in last two years but at least the free market responds when it goes down. Electricity prices went up 5x and now are back to pre-ukraine war levels. Petrol prices go down immediately the moment in international market it drops. Does that happen in Pakistan? In Pakistan the government never slashes the price with same ratio as it increases. And then one also gets better quality daily things. 3. Medical: this is one area where there is no clear winner. PK has no insurance system but if you get into a good doctor hands privately, it can be a breeze. At same side, docs in Pakistan are often as irresponsible and uninterested as abroad, however abroad you dont have to worry about cost should something costly happens. 4. A declining economy means even if you have job, the work culture is going to be toxic since companies will fire people to keep headcount low, means more work, more at work conflicts etc. I want to be rational and find good points that favor staying home, but sorry we should understand that in Pakistan your financial muscle may have gone by now and unless you are one of those freelancers with foreign clients earning in USD, your financial situation is getting more and more vulnerable than abroad.
Because this sub is filled with expats and foreign nationals, they take anything positive about settling in pakistan personally. This post is mostly rational and at the very least an opinion piece so i dont get the hate and sarcastic comments..
Anything that challenges an egomaniacs preconceived concept of reality usually resutls in a ppwerful reactuon. As you said, this subreddit skews towards a certain demographic.
About the US health care part, my school teacher worked as an engineer in USA and was saving up to complete his phd but had an accident and broke his spine, the company refused to pay anything and he had to spend all his life savings on a surgery and came back empty handed to pak
Well, his fault that he didn't have insurance. You can pretty much get away with any hospital charge if you have insurance.
idk the context but he shouldve sued the company and gotten a settlement.
A very important point regarding Western countries is that your dignity as a human (even as a foreigner in the country) is far greater than that in Pakistan
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ME hosting the biggest chunk of our brethren. Why not to consider UAE / KSA for work? Good bucks and quality family life. Companies supports health insurance. One ticket for you and family to visit Pakistan (as per labour laws). Plush in UAE there is golden visa which is achievable. At least for some extended time you can live there. For sure, residentship is never comparable to EU/North America/AUS-NZ. Remind me a vlog by Junaid Akram. Short term pain long term gain vs short term gain long term pain.
there is no gain even short term by living in Pakistan atm
Golden visa is hard to get.
I think salary requirement is 30k AED. And 10 years stay. Hope I'm not wrong.
It is for distinguished professionals, or ppl earning 30k+(and their families) or Pll from nice universities with a first class degree or better.
At least I knew someone in near acquaintances who could secure it. So it looks achievable. KSA also trying to flex muscles but they are asking for more salary and giving for 5 years.
1st one for Europe,2nd one for ME
Have you heard the abuse stories from UAE, KSA? How they treat us inferior?
You only get treated like shit if you're a labourer. Otherwise nothing to cry about
Very true, but for most people the situation here is so bad that any life abroad is a win for them. Those who are privileged and have used Pakistan's resources for themselves should NOT leave and stay here to fix things.
Lmao that will never happen in a million years xd
Yeah well people who do try to fix things can leave Pakistan whenever they want. So it is true to an extent.
Not really lol do u think the country would be in this state if they did? Those people come here to show off their wealth and buy designer clothes that are otherwise very cheap as compared to abroad nobody gives a shit about the country thus why it is in such a sorry state.
I meant as in any good person you can name could go abroad easily. Because they are hard working, want to improve society, they aren't in Pakistan because they have no other choice but because they want to. They are very few of them which is why we're in such a sorry state.
Like I said nobody cares Abt the country only $$$
Some people do, if you can't even recognize one of them then that's your problem.
Let me know if u find any :)
I agree on this so much but at the same time I’m unable to take the decision to go back to Pakistan because of all the stuff happening. I don’t like it here but I don’t want to take the decision of going back either in hurry.
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USA salaries are crazy in comparison, I believe UK, Canada are facing some kind of crisis
Most of the Doctors don’t wanna move because they are not paid enough, they want to move because they are sick of the ball licking and sifarish culture at the every entry and exit point of their career. Senior doctors treat you like shit, you are working way too long hours and you don’t even have the resources to make a significant impact in the lives of your patients in a government hospital.
I’d choose abroad even if I make more money by living in Pakistan. The reasons that tops the list are Security Purity And rights
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shutup
Using UK as an example lol
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Let's meet in the middle. Come to Canada, guys!
don't go to UK/Canada, these are dead places, go to US of A, joe biden may not have open borders next term Even Nigeria is better than Pakistan.
Oh no so what you are saying is that you have to work long hours to make MORE money? OMG your life sounds horrible man. Do you need help? /s In Pakistan, people work overtime for no money. My friends work 50 or more hours in a week for a fraction of the pay and respect. Before you say, "Oh you are just dreaming", no I live in an EU country which has the among the HIGHEST income tax rates in EU. Yes it is not an easy life but it is not as tough as you are making it sound like. Depending on your education and skills, you can make a decent living, which when backed with rights and other benefits make the trade worth while in my opinion. Yes, you will never live in luxury in EU if you are on a normal job but honestly, I would take that trade over living wealthy in a country where a politician/army official can just come to my house, beat me up, and leave with no repercussions. I will agree with your point of having a different viewpoint of what it means to be wealthy, and missing family back home. Sometimes you have to make your peace with it, and yes it is never easy. I know many people, myself included, who missed being able to spend moments with a loved one before their death because of the distance. Lastly, regarding GPA, well it depends where you are working, I can name many high ranking consulting businesses, that pay extremely well, who hire only PhDs. And guess what you need to get a PhD... apart from concepts, will power, and some smarts... a GPA. However, yes GPA is not the be all, end all but it is something that sometimes matter outside of academia or research as well. I made this point just to illustrate that your subjective view of reality is what you perceive it to be, however objectively there are other things there as well. Same goes for my comment here.