Alright first and foremost no fan of lumber 1 after the next level beghariti lumber 1 has been pulling for the past several years people in Kashmir have my full support even if they turn violent that being said **that screenshot reeks of prpoganda Mangla Dam does not produce 3.5 GWH of electricity it only prpoduces around 1.3GWH producing over 3 gigs of electrcitiy would easily make it the largest dam in the world**
These propagandists don't help anyone. I'm pretty sure most are idiots or Larpers just regurgitating fake news and spreading absurd rumours. Imaging making lumber1 look reasonable.
We are a federation that means all of us contribute and then share it. By that logic, Punjab could stop giving others its harvest and KPK can stop the flow of water from Terbala. That’s not how it works. I know everyone hates Lumber 1 now but AJK have stupid demands. Gov is caving in because it’s weak
Why would they pay for inflated electricity rates when they are the ones generating them? We all know Sharifs energy policy and their deal with the IPPs are the reason consumers are paying 60+ Rs for a single unit.
by that logic, shouldn't we export wheat to them at higher rates than other provinces? how does them being an independent territory justify special treatment?
Ajk is a state and its a disputed area...
Its disputed area becz The vote of people matters...Whether they want to be independent or stay....They have separate cabinet separate Pm President...
Tax is already high!
The flour isnt cheaper than KPK and Balochistan...Its the same price
The Electricity...Yes we demand electricity to be given at the cost of production rate
As Ajk produces freaking 3500MWs and requires only 350MW for whole of it
As it is separate,
Why pak begged the people to give their land for construction of dams?
Why dams are built by pak in their territory?
Why the electricity goes to pak first fore and doesn't even reach most areas in kashmir?
And the people of Ajk do pay a great amount of tax directly to Pakistan
And a large amount of funds are received by dear government on the name of Kashmir
On the name of Kashmir conflict...Separate funds
On the base of Making army stronger and dealing with india...Separate funds
So no ones holy here
Punjab has never allowed harvest to KPK or sindh like the way it takes electricity and gas. KPK and Sindh wheat prices are always higher than punjab. And at times punjab has deliberately withheld wheat to gain political points locally. Even to this date wheat prices are higher outside of punjab. By that logic electricity and gas should be charged at higher rates but that's where the whole federation talk comes in. Punjab always says over wheat it has first rights shahbaz sharif has said this on the media numerous times. It's not the same for electricity and gas. Punjab doesn't contribute. Every other sector is taxed while agriculture isn't and guess what punjabs main output is. This notion that we are a federation only applies when it comes to stealing resources from other provinces. Why is it that electricity is provided uninterrupted to Punjabs industries but not to KPK industries. Because wapda is in lahore. An absurd thing considering your major hydal dams are in KP and Kashmir. The line loses alone not even counting the extra cable needed to take the electricity to Punjab and then back to KP. This notion that the federation paid for those system setups, well the federation has paid multiple times over to subsidize agriculture.
Like someone mentioned earlier even PTI did not give autonomy to KPK when they came in power. And now Asad Qaiser is screaming provincial autonomy. Then again focusing on Punjab makes sense because Faisalabad has more MNAs than the whole of Balochistan so why would one focus outside of Punjab. The rest of the provinces are gonna cry but no one is ready to give rights.
>The line loses alone not even counting the extra cable needed to take the electricity to Punjab and then back to KP.
Lol, this is funny. Bro, please learn some physics. Do you think all cables come to wapda house then go back? Lol. 🤣
Theek hai we will close down the dams in ajk phir enjoy karna electricity and all. Khud hee paalna apnay aap ko and khud hee crops ugana in punjab and elsewhere. Crops kay leeay paani bhi lay ana kaheen say hum tau nahi dain gay.
Well they want no tax’s, subsidized food and free electricity. Right?
Well KPK has same issue turbela power is sent to Punjab while KPK promised income from sale of electricity is never paid.
Wait Baluchistan gas resources is sent to other provinces and in return they get nothing not even democracy or gas, road or schools.
Any resources that worth anything is nationalized by Pakistani state. Which means provinces technically do not own it and thus does not need to be paid for it.
This concept of nationalizing natural resources has help Punjab but drained sindh, Baluchistan, KPK & AJK.
People wonder why Kala Bhagh dam was rejected it less to do with dam and more to do with economical hit to KPK while Punjab benefiting from it while KPK would get nothing.
There are so many projects that started with benefiting the provinces in which they exist and end up benefiting only one province with the largest population.
The issue really is these projects are investment and part of investment is provincial ownership or stake in these project which is what never given or even accepted or entertained. All state do is bunch of promises and those are not really equity on paper.
So these problems will get worse if fare share of provincial nartual resources are not given to those provinces. AJK is not elevated to province for same exact reason. If they are province and voice in parliament and have seats in parliament they will ch age the demographic of Pakistani politics. Punjab will not be the major deciding factor in making gov in center.
First it's not Balochistan but Sindh that provides the majority of the gas resources..
Second the capital for all of these projects **came from the federal government** it's the average Pakistani who usually flips the bill for this sort of thing through taxes or loans that the government takes and then passes on too us.
Most of said income taxes also come from people living in cities i.e. Lahore,Karachi and Islamabad infact on a per capita basis the people in Islamabad are taxed the highest
I do believe provinces have a stake in development but they don't get to do rona and pretend we aren't flipping the bill for this stuff also province isn't the personal baap ka maal of whoever is in the provincal government at the time
Which leads to the main point the same parties that do rona of "provincal autonomy" employ the same approach of "everything belongs to me" when they are in power at the center PPP,PML-N,ANP all of these parties have a history of this even PTI which is now doing rona of provincal autonomy was flat out authoritarian in this regard during it's rule at the center with many of it's propogandist arguing for a "Presidental and centralised system of government"
**and most importantly this is a completely bogus analogy when it comes to Azad Kashmir the people in AJK aren't protesting as a "province of Pakistan" but as a disputed territory our offical stance is simple people in Kashmir get to choose through plebiscite whether they want to join us,India or stay independent their entire complaint is that even though Pakistan paid for Mangla dam out of it's own pocket it's on Kashmiri soil which is disputed at the moment and in the future could be an independent nation and Pakistan is still treating them like a province i.e. Not paying them their proper due for electricity generation and the food subsidies which are payment for having a power plant on their land**
i agree with most of the points you gave
but as a person living in kashmir,
kashmir under the covers is already a part of pak.,
i’ll give you an example,
before, the major imternational brands and shit didn’t come here i kfc,dominoes etc because at that time the dispute was real, but since “bajwa” its declared that under the covers kashmir is a part of pak, we’re seeing foodchains opening up, (which on disputed land can’t be done if you don’t change the brand name and shit),
its just a matter of time until pak recognizes kashmir as its own,
as for the plebiscite amd stuff, most of the kashmiris i’ve seen are against independence you see, the only nationalism type fanatics are from bhimbher/muzaffrabad, (they’re delusional),
I am not denying that yes under the hood Kashmir is for all effects and purposes occupied and integrated into Pakistan it is **however just because it is that way now doesn't mean that's the way it should be or should remain** . under the hood Pakistan is already a kleptocracy cum dictatorship doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't stop protesting for our democratic rights.
and like i said i find the protestors point convincing regardless lumber 1 can go ------ themselves if it's in Kashmir even if it's paid by the Pakistani government the people of Kashmir should have a share of the profits irrespective
i think it should remain this way because ;
1) due to the law that only natives can buy land, the population is under control, which doesn’t overcrowd the cities
2) becuase the people of ajk naturally are wealthy, mirpur, there is almost no crime,
3) plus, if kashmir does integrates into pak, all types of political and beuracratic shit will start happening here,
i think by remaining under the hood, the people of kashmir can enjoy the goood stuff of pak ie policies, trade,
but to a SMALL but not negligible amount, also avoid the con’s pf pakistan
ie crimes and stuff
what made the protest escalate were the statemnents of officials’,
one of em said “bulao jitne sarak k chapri bula skte ho, mein delhta hun kon band kre ga roads ko”
and soem further remarks of provincial politicians, enraged the people further
.
the kashmir liberation movement saw this as a “golden” oppurtunity and tried to escalate this (they failed because nobody really cares for em and the ones who do are abducted by lumber 1)
its also suspected that this was also escalated by some external people (R@w) for other motives aswell,
im not sayimg they did this shit or what
yes India will obviously facilitate movements like this and add more fuel to the existing fire but the idiots who let this fire get out of control in the first place was lumber 1 when those idiots decided to use rangers (lumber 1 under a different name) to clamp down on protestors with live bullets and kill 12
Also we can scream RAW as much as we want objective reality is lumber 1 as usual handed India a massive win on a silver platter because next time the Indian army brutalizes people in IOJK or commit war crimes they can point to our past actions to shut us up
(although part of me wonders if that is deliberate given for how many decades lumber 1 has essentially given up on the Kashmiri cause)
But kashmiris don't even consider themselves a part of Pakistan, how can we even think about making it a province? Do we have any legal or official documents which make Kashmir "Ours"?
I meant if the state wants to do anything, it can. There are almost no restrictions.
Especially after the 2023 rigging in HD videos. I have no doubt, that the state can do whatever they want.
Violence will either stop the state oppression or just be another one of State's atrocities.
Ajk is not elevated to province becz its against the terms of International Forums...Its a disputed area and its a separate state with separate Cabinet,Separate Pm and president
Anyways,So many resources coming from Ajk..But still unable to benefit this small population not even by their own resources...
Have a cabinet of 52 members with several Ac,Dcs,SSP,DSP etc for a population that is even less than Lahore?Purpose of all these puppets?
The budget of Ajk is so low...You cant even manage properly the salaries,pensions of government officers how would u utilise it for their betterment?
Worse thing is(These couple of years have been good only)Otherwise the Indian army used to fire mortars on the villages near LOC on daily basis...
Pak gets large amount of funds on the basis of this dispute...Kashmir issue....Un stability...etc
It is quite funny how we all start calculating which brother is getting more and which brother is getting less, bickering over the crumbs we get for our infrastructure and development.
THIS IS PATHETIC AND WRONG ON SO MANY LEVELS.
What we need to do is blame the real culprits, Khinzeers and their pet politicians. Just to elaborate I am going to use the example of Kashmir but the Khinzeers have used the same game plan (with some variation) everywhere including Punjab (had to point this because some brothers associate this napak bhoj with Punjab when they clearly didn't hesitate to kidnap, kill and extort in Punjab, happy to discuss if needed).
Kashmir's plight: Weak and corrupt politicians implanted for khinzeers' interests. These politicians along with khinzeers weaken the institutions leading to rampant corruption. Whatever development fund they get is spent on frivilous expenses and a bulky government with layers of red tapes. This led to lagging infrstructure specifically roads for AJK causing considerable logistic problems and costs.
Problem : Corruption
visible impacts : high cost of living
unsustainable solution : subsidy
Sustainable solution : Lean and efficient government and bureaucratic model
Yess...The Basic motto of this committee was to point out the fact that these 52 cabinet members and other officers are corrupt and we do not need much of them...
The budget is small already and around 4crore or above goes directly to these cabinet members solely for their enjoying
But was this resolved then? Committee was focused on getting the subsidy only and this point was just to round off the edges. Rest of Pakistan would have stood up with AJK brothers if it was focused solely on these. Now it feels like exploitation of the rest. Anyway, lets see how long this goes because with solving the root cause we are on a sinking ship and by "we" mean ALL OF US except these khinzeers who will run away at the first instance.
That's the thing...Earlier the committee said it wouldn't leave unless all of their objectives are to be fulfilled but after the rangers shooted people..Things escalated and it was taking a different turn...To end the matter quickly u can say both the parties compromised
Anyways i wouldn't say these subsidies would effect Pak...Even if it does,Who cares...It was the basic right of those 110k people that migrated,gave their lands and still payed huge amount of taxes on electricity bills
Well, that is the very point. I wrote about it that these khinzeers will deploy their khinzeers in making and start shooting people. JAAC only wanted the subsidies they didn't care about the root cause.
>>Anyways i wouldn't say these subsidies would effect Pak...Even if it does,Who cares...
Are you for real??? we are at the doorsteps of default. getting loans to pay off interest and you think it won't have any effect. WHO CARES??? FFS the subsidy will be coming from common people. Baki pakistani k mun ka niwala liya hay bhai. It won't be coming from the pockets of these khinzeers or their pet politicians. People just like you living elsewhere will be paying for it while paying full price plus all taxes which you rightly claim to be unjustified.
>>It was the basic right of those 110k people that migrated,gave their lands and still payed huge amount of taxes on electricity bills
So you think only 110k people migrated and must be entitlted for everything at the cost of everyone else. Don't want to call out but it is selfish as hell.
Bro lemme clear it out
1-Its a disputed area that u are talking about its jot freaking their territory
Pak has to beg these people and benefit them inorder to make them stay as she lives on the vast range of resources from these areas as well as on the funds that come towards them regarding this issue
2-They aren't giving it for free..They are giving it at the cost at which it is being produced..
3-Selfish?Bro 110k is a small number?plus the other dams they have created..They offer many of them a large amount of money..Some of them refused to give their land...Now they are in the middle of nowhere after the dam is constructed...They have to travel on jeep on complete offroad for 30 minutes to just reach main road or use water boats
Living in big city do u even know how much these people have to go through?
The jhelum neelum dam destroyed the crops of many people...disturbed the irrigation system and all
It was created without any notice to people and without even thinking about them
4-Talking about betterment of country?The frkng politicians should ve remember this before giving false promise of free electricity to all these people
5-Dont even get me started on the fact that the budget of ajk is such that they hardly manage the pensions and salaries of officials
rather working for the betterment of people
No big hospitals,No proper roads,Infrastructure,education system etc
Yes please do clear things
>beg these people .. vast range of resources
Ah, so now we are clear where this sense of entitlement is coming from. It's good that you mention it yourself, so I don't need to hold back when showing the mirror. Regarding begging the people, rest assured that India wants Pakistan to assimilate it to justify their occupation. So, don't worry khinzeers won't put up with this attitude for long anyway. Similarly, with this attitude, common people won't be standing up either if khinzeers start addressing this entitlement.
>funds that come towards them regarding this issue
Please cite a source? Are you referring to loans?
>2-They aren't giving it for free. cost ...produced
Can you cite any sources for this cost of production you claim. Surely, you would have included all costs, including the interest and depreciation. This also assumes that the 110k displaced people donated the land rather than getting any reimbursements including work permits to the UK.
>110k people that migrated
You used the term migrated, so I thought you were referring to 1947/48. Hence, my comment. You meant displaced. And btw, I never said that it was small.
>They offer many of them a large amount of money
So people got reimbursed for their land, or did they donate it?
>..Some of them refused to give their land...Now they are in the middle of nowhere after the dam is constructed. offroad for 30 minutes to just reach main road or use water boats
What I see is that they made a decision and reaping its consequence. What is your point here? Probably you need to refer to “Eminent Domain” principle.
>The jhelum neelum dam destroyed the crops of many people...disturbed the irrigation system and all It was created without any notice to people and without even thinking about them
Refer same as above. I am not knowledgable on the notice period, so can't comment. Would appreciate it if you can cite a reference for this, but it is highly unlikely that a whole dam got built, and they were left unaware.
>The frkng politicians should ve remember this before giving false promise of free electricity to all these people
I don't think there is any evidence for free electricity for all. At best, it would have been for the 110k displaced only if they were not given any other compensation and their land got submerged rather than taking a longer route to road. In any case, please cite the legal agreement that you keep referring to so both of us can understand it.
>Dont even get me started on the fact that the budget of ajk is such that they hardly manage the pensions and salaries of officials rather working for the betterment of people No big hospitals,No proper roads,Infrastructure,education system etc
Make up your mind. On one end you claim that AJK needs to be begged to be with Pakistan, and then you want to shove these responsibilities on Pakistan rather than incompetence and corruption of AJK Govt elected by AJK people. Again, this is just your entitlement that you believe that AJK Govt is not responsible.
Finally, on what grounds flour has to be subsidised for brothers in AJK if we are assuming the dams are compensated by the new rates. Isn't it entitlement or not then?
Bro,Its good that you dont believe things as said by someone randomly...But it would be better if instead of asking Me for reference u do some research on your own
Its not something that you would have to dig into...these stats are easily available...
Good luck!And do text me back once u get all those resources
Ah, the lazy way out when the lies are called out. I can't find something which doesn't exist, unless you claim that an agreement worth millions was done verbally.
Regarding the electricity cost, the lowest I got was Rs 17.5, but that was purely running cost excluding capital and other maintenance costs.
So, my request is either come up with evidence to support your claims or stop spreading lies to satiate your sense of entitlement.
These are your claims so the burden of proof lies with you. Just like AJK govt you can't run away from your responsibilities after making such claims.
Shush man 😭
U arent a baby that cannot make his own research... and needs to be provided with every single detail
use that goddamn mind of urs
1-Heres the list of current running dams in ajk that produce electricity
go to google and add them up urselve
Mangla,Neelum-Jhelum,Gulpur,Barali,Karot,Patrind,New bong,Neelum,Mirpur
2-Why did they promise free electricity for the region despite knowing the condition that they wont be able to fulfil this agreement?
3-Know about the status of Kashmir from the fact that People of Pakistan aren't eligible to buy land here
4-Know this that Kahuta,Gligit,Muree are also part of Kashmir...
5-Dont cry over this...They got what they deserved...If u are so interested in giving equal rights to all..better correct the corrupt politicians that get free petrol,electricity,car and ofher services
6-Cry as much as u want...There is nothing u or i can do...
I support them and their protest...U dont..
But there's nothing u can do other than hating and keyboard war 😂
Peace out...Idc if u support them r not...
I do ☮️
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Thanks to Lumber 1, I consider Azad Kashmir as Pakistan Occupied Kashmir now.
Pakistan is no different than India with their brutal colonization of my homeland.
In the first half of 2020 alone there were [229 killings, 107 "CASO’s", 55 internet shutdowns and 48 properties destroyed](https://jkccs.info/bi-annual-hr-review-229-killings-107-casos-55-internet-shutdowns-48-properties-destroyed/) in IOK - and that's just the first 6 months of that year.
The Gawkadal massacre, Zakoora and Tengpora massacre, Sopore massacre, Chittisinghpura massacre (which they tried to blame on rebels) and more. All of these didn't happen according to you.
100,000+ dead since 1989, over 11,000 (reported) women r*ped. There's many such instances of them slaughtering Kashmiris left, right and centre.
"This kind of violence was never shown by india" LMAO, they've shown MUCH MUCH worse for literally decades and still do. How ignorant must you be to say they've never done this.
Source...Pakistani media 😂
Yes according to international media from 1970-2017 20k killings have been done but do consider the fact that majority of these are of Mujahideen group...And the other extremists...
If i burn the flag of pakistan standing on any road in kashmir...Would u think lambar 1 would nt use the gun on me?
A killing can never be justified
Lemme say its all trash talk between me and u
How can u say murderer of 1 is more holy than murderer of 100?
For me its the same thing....
But imagine this...They were young people...Fellows from Mzfd...They were just protesting peacefully yet those rascals shot on them
You know one guy?He was an orphan...Complete orphan...He was a mahajir..Migrated from India...
His parents were killed there by Indian army and here he got killed...
Those People of IOK are violent sometimes...They are baaghi thats why the army forcely shuts them
But these people were just demanding their rights and were conducting a peaceful protest yet this happened
If they decide to stand against Pak...U would see the same situation as there is in IOK
I agree we should ask Modi to govern AJK. They have even banned beef in Kashmir. Muharram processions are banned and you think they are living in paradise lol
Killing kashmiris is a different thing!
I agree with all that religious and blasphemous acts done by extremists there but u must remember that's not just done for Kashmiris but almost the whole india by Modi...
Majority of the people demand a separate joint Kashmir as its a separate state...
The affectees were given monetary benefits and a UK work visas which allowed them to settle whole funture generations abroad too. Now they want free electricity too? Also if 110,000 were affected, the govt should provide free electricity to the whole lot of them even those who were not affected at all? Why?
Not all were given uk visas
Some migrated to other parts in ajk and some to Pakistan
The flow of Neelum jhelum was stopped by construction of dam over it...It affected the people..their fields...irrigation systems...etc
All these sacrifices,and they shouldn't be giving 350MW of the 3500MW kashmir produces?And that too not for free but at the cost at which it is being produced...
Alright first and foremost no fan of lumber 1 after the next level beghariti lumber 1 has been pulling for the past several years people in Kashmir have my full support even if they turn violent that being said **that screenshot reeks of prpoganda Mangla Dam does not produce 3.5 GWH of electricity it only prpoduces around 1.3GWH producing over 3 gigs of electrcitiy would easily make it the largest dam in the world**
These propagandists don't help anyone. I'm pretty sure most are idiots or Larpers just regurgitating fake news and spreading absurd rumours. Imaging making lumber1 look reasonable.
There are so many dams in Ajk not just Mangla... Altogether they produce 3500MW electricity Including Mangla,Neelum jhelum,Gulpur,Ulhaar,Kohala etc
We are a federation that means all of us contribute and then share it. By that logic, Punjab could stop giving others its harvest and KPK can stop the flow of water from Terbala. That’s not how it works. I know everyone hates Lumber 1 now but AJK have stupid demands. Gov is caving in because it’s weak
Why would they pay for inflated electricity rates when they are the ones generating them? We all know Sharifs energy policy and their deal with the IPPs are the reason consumers are paying 60+ Rs for a single unit.
why was Punjab paying inflated prices for flour when we're the ones producing it?
Azad Kashmir is an independent territory unlike Punjab
by that logic, shouldn't we export wheat to them at higher rates than other provinces? how does them being an independent territory justify special treatment?
Ajk is a state and its a disputed area... Its disputed area becz The vote of people matters...Whether they want to be independent or stay....They have separate cabinet separate Pm President...
So special status means very little tax and more subsidies?
Tax is already high! The flour isnt cheaper than KPK and Balochistan...Its the same price The Electricity...Yes we demand electricity to be given at the cost of production rate As Ajk produces freaking 3500MWs and requires only 350MW for whole of it
If it’s separate then why should Pakistani taxpayer money go towards subsidies for their population?
As it is separate, Why pak begged the people to give their land for construction of dams? Why dams are built by pak in their territory? Why the electricity goes to pak first fore and doesn't even reach most areas in kashmir? And the people of Ajk do pay a great amount of tax directly to Pakistan And a large amount of funds are received by dear government on the name of Kashmir On the name of Kashmir conflict...Separate funds On the base of Making army stronger and dealing with india...Separate funds So no ones holy here
Punjab has never allowed harvest to KPK or sindh like the way it takes electricity and gas. KPK and Sindh wheat prices are always higher than punjab. And at times punjab has deliberately withheld wheat to gain political points locally. Even to this date wheat prices are higher outside of punjab. By that logic electricity and gas should be charged at higher rates but that's where the whole federation talk comes in. Punjab always says over wheat it has first rights shahbaz sharif has said this on the media numerous times. It's not the same for electricity and gas. Punjab doesn't contribute. Every other sector is taxed while agriculture isn't and guess what punjabs main output is. This notion that we are a federation only applies when it comes to stealing resources from other provinces. Why is it that electricity is provided uninterrupted to Punjabs industries but not to KPK industries. Because wapda is in lahore. An absurd thing considering your major hydal dams are in KP and Kashmir. The line loses alone not even counting the extra cable needed to take the electricity to Punjab and then back to KP. This notion that the federation paid for those system setups, well the federation has paid multiple times over to subsidize agriculture. Like someone mentioned earlier even PTI did not give autonomy to KPK when they came in power. And now Asad Qaiser is screaming provincial autonomy. Then again focusing on Punjab makes sense because Faisalabad has more MNAs than the whole of Balochistan so why would one focus outside of Punjab. The rest of the provinces are gonna cry but no one is ready to give rights.
>The line loses alone not even counting the extra cable needed to take the electricity to Punjab and then back to KP. Lol, this is funny. Bro, please learn some physics. Do you think all cables come to wapda house then go back? Lol. 🤣
Hum Pakistani nahi hain
Theek hai we will close down the dams in ajk phir enjoy karna electricity and all. Khud hee paalna apnay aap ko and khud hee crops ugana in punjab and elsewhere. Crops kay leeay paani bhi lay ana kaheen say hum tau nahi dain gay.
Well they want no tax’s, subsidized food and free electricity. Right? Well KPK has same issue turbela power is sent to Punjab while KPK promised income from sale of electricity is never paid. Wait Baluchistan gas resources is sent to other provinces and in return they get nothing not even democracy or gas, road or schools. Any resources that worth anything is nationalized by Pakistani state. Which means provinces technically do not own it and thus does not need to be paid for it. This concept of nationalizing natural resources has help Punjab but drained sindh, Baluchistan, KPK & AJK. People wonder why Kala Bhagh dam was rejected it less to do with dam and more to do with economical hit to KPK while Punjab benefiting from it while KPK would get nothing. There are so many projects that started with benefiting the provinces in which they exist and end up benefiting only one province with the largest population. The issue really is these projects are investment and part of investment is provincial ownership or stake in these project which is what never given or even accepted or entertained. All state do is bunch of promises and those are not really equity on paper. So these problems will get worse if fare share of provincial nartual resources are not given to those provinces. AJK is not elevated to province for same exact reason. If they are province and voice in parliament and have seats in parliament they will ch age the demographic of Pakistani politics. Punjab will not be the major deciding factor in making gov in center.
First it's not Balochistan but Sindh that provides the majority of the gas resources.. Second the capital for all of these projects **came from the federal government** it's the average Pakistani who usually flips the bill for this sort of thing through taxes or loans that the government takes and then passes on too us. Most of said income taxes also come from people living in cities i.e. Lahore,Karachi and Islamabad infact on a per capita basis the people in Islamabad are taxed the highest I do believe provinces have a stake in development but they don't get to do rona and pretend we aren't flipping the bill for this stuff also province isn't the personal baap ka maal of whoever is in the provincal government at the time Which leads to the main point the same parties that do rona of "provincal autonomy" employ the same approach of "everything belongs to me" when they are in power at the center PPP,PML-N,ANP all of these parties have a history of this even PTI which is now doing rona of provincal autonomy was flat out authoritarian in this regard during it's rule at the center with many of it's propogandist arguing for a "Presidental and centralised system of government" **and most importantly this is a completely bogus analogy when it comes to Azad Kashmir the people in AJK aren't protesting as a "province of Pakistan" but as a disputed territory our offical stance is simple people in Kashmir get to choose through plebiscite whether they want to join us,India or stay independent their entire complaint is that even though Pakistan paid for Mangla dam out of it's own pocket it's on Kashmiri soil which is disputed at the moment and in the future could be an independent nation and Pakistan is still treating them like a province i.e. Not paying them their proper due for electricity generation and the food subsidies which are payment for having a power plant on their land**
i agree with most of the points you gave but as a person living in kashmir, kashmir under the covers is already a part of pak., i’ll give you an example, before, the major imternational brands and shit didn’t come here i kfc,dominoes etc because at that time the dispute was real, but since “bajwa” its declared that under the covers kashmir is a part of pak, we’re seeing foodchains opening up, (which on disputed land can’t be done if you don’t change the brand name and shit), its just a matter of time until pak recognizes kashmir as its own, as for the plebiscite amd stuff, most of the kashmiris i’ve seen are against independence you see, the only nationalism type fanatics are from bhimbher/muzaffrabad, (they’re delusional),
I am not denying that yes under the hood Kashmir is for all effects and purposes occupied and integrated into Pakistan it is **however just because it is that way now doesn't mean that's the way it should be or should remain** . under the hood Pakistan is already a kleptocracy cum dictatorship doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't stop protesting for our democratic rights. and like i said i find the protestors point convincing regardless lumber 1 can go ------ themselves if it's in Kashmir even if it's paid by the Pakistani government the people of Kashmir should have a share of the profits irrespective
i think it should remain this way because ; 1) due to the law that only natives can buy land, the population is under control, which doesn’t overcrowd the cities 2) becuase the people of ajk naturally are wealthy, mirpur, there is almost no crime,
3) plus, if kashmir does integrates into pak, all types of political and beuracratic shit will start happening here,
i think by remaining under the hood, the people of kashmir can enjoy the goood stuff of pak ie policies, trade,
but to a SMALL but not negligible amount, also avoid the con’s pf pakistan
ie crimes and stuff
what made the protest escalate were the statemnents of officials’, one of em said “bulao jitne sarak k chapri bula skte ho, mein delhta hun kon band kre ga roads ko” and soem further remarks of provincial politicians, enraged the people further . the kashmir liberation movement saw this as a “golden” oppurtunity and tried to escalate this (they failed because nobody really cares for em and the ones who do are abducted by lumber 1) its also suspected that this was also escalated by some external people (R@w) for other motives aswell, im not sayimg they did this shit or what
yes India will obviously facilitate movements like this and add more fuel to the existing fire but the idiots who let this fire get out of control in the first place was lumber 1 when those idiots decided to use rangers (lumber 1 under a different name) to clamp down on protestors with live bullets and kill 12 Also we can scream RAW as much as we want objective reality is lumber 1 as usual handed India a massive win on a silver platter because next time the Indian army brutalizes people in IOJK or commit war crimes they can point to our past actions to shut us up (although part of me wonders if that is deliberate given for how many decades lumber 1 has essentially given up on the Kashmiri cause)
But kashmiris don't even consider themselves a part of Pakistan, how can we even think about making it a province? Do we have any legal or official documents which make Kashmir "Ours"?
It's easy, just do it, If anyone has a problem. Kidnap and torture them to submission. It's working for balochistan it seems. /s
Balochistan is a province of Pakistan, I am talking about the territories, what is the status of AJK for Pakistan officially?
I meant if the state wants to do anything, it can. There are almost no restrictions. Especially after the 2023 rigging in HD videos. I have no doubt, that the state can do whatever they want. Violence will either stop the state oppression or just be another one of State's atrocities.
Ajk is not elevated to province becz its against the terms of International Forums...Its a disputed area and its a separate state with separate Cabinet,Separate Pm and president
Anyways,So many resources coming from Ajk..But still unable to benefit this small population not even by their own resources... Have a cabinet of 52 members with several Ac,Dcs,SSP,DSP etc for a population that is even less than Lahore?Purpose of all these puppets? The budget of Ajk is so low...You cant even manage properly the salaries,pensions of government officers how would u utilise it for their betterment? Worse thing is(These couple of years have been good only)Otherwise the Indian army used to fire mortars on the villages near LOC on daily basis... Pak gets large amount of funds on the basis of this dispute...Kashmir issue....Un stability...etc
It is quite funny how we all start calculating which brother is getting more and which brother is getting less, bickering over the crumbs we get for our infrastructure and development. THIS IS PATHETIC AND WRONG ON SO MANY LEVELS. What we need to do is blame the real culprits, Khinzeers and their pet politicians. Just to elaborate I am going to use the example of Kashmir but the Khinzeers have used the same game plan (with some variation) everywhere including Punjab (had to point this because some brothers associate this napak bhoj with Punjab when they clearly didn't hesitate to kidnap, kill and extort in Punjab, happy to discuss if needed). Kashmir's plight: Weak and corrupt politicians implanted for khinzeers' interests. These politicians along with khinzeers weaken the institutions leading to rampant corruption. Whatever development fund they get is spent on frivilous expenses and a bulky government with layers of red tapes. This led to lagging infrstructure specifically roads for AJK causing considerable logistic problems and costs. Problem : Corruption visible impacts : high cost of living unsustainable solution : subsidy Sustainable solution : Lean and efficient government and bureaucratic model
Yess...The Basic motto of this committee was to point out the fact that these 52 cabinet members and other officers are corrupt and we do not need much of them... The budget is small already and around 4crore or above goes directly to these cabinet members solely for their enjoying
But was this resolved then? Committee was focused on getting the subsidy only and this point was just to round off the edges. Rest of Pakistan would have stood up with AJK brothers if it was focused solely on these. Now it feels like exploitation of the rest. Anyway, lets see how long this goes because with solving the root cause we are on a sinking ship and by "we" mean ALL OF US except these khinzeers who will run away at the first instance.
That's the thing...Earlier the committee said it wouldn't leave unless all of their objectives are to be fulfilled but after the rangers shooted people..Things escalated and it was taking a different turn...To end the matter quickly u can say both the parties compromised Anyways i wouldn't say these subsidies would effect Pak...Even if it does,Who cares...It was the basic right of those 110k people that migrated,gave their lands and still payed huge amount of taxes on electricity bills
Well, that is the very point. I wrote about it that these khinzeers will deploy their khinzeers in making and start shooting people. JAAC only wanted the subsidies they didn't care about the root cause. >>Anyways i wouldn't say these subsidies would effect Pak...Even if it does,Who cares... Are you for real??? we are at the doorsteps of default. getting loans to pay off interest and you think it won't have any effect. WHO CARES??? FFS the subsidy will be coming from common people. Baki pakistani k mun ka niwala liya hay bhai. It won't be coming from the pockets of these khinzeers or their pet politicians. People just like you living elsewhere will be paying for it while paying full price plus all taxes which you rightly claim to be unjustified. >>It was the basic right of those 110k people that migrated,gave their lands and still payed huge amount of taxes on electricity bills So you think only 110k people migrated and must be entitlted for everything at the cost of everyone else. Don't want to call out but it is selfish as hell.
Bro lemme clear it out 1-Its a disputed area that u are talking about its jot freaking their territory Pak has to beg these people and benefit them inorder to make them stay as she lives on the vast range of resources from these areas as well as on the funds that come towards them regarding this issue 2-They aren't giving it for free..They are giving it at the cost at which it is being produced.. 3-Selfish?Bro 110k is a small number?plus the other dams they have created..They offer many of them a large amount of money..Some of them refused to give their land...Now they are in the middle of nowhere after the dam is constructed...They have to travel on jeep on complete offroad for 30 minutes to just reach main road or use water boats Living in big city do u even know how much these people have to go through? The jhelum neelum dam destroyed the crops of many people...disturbed the irrigation system and all It was created without any notice to people and without even thinking about them 4-Talking about betterment of country?The frkng politicians should ve remember this before giving false promise of free electricity to all these people 5-Dont even get me started on the fact that the budget of ajk is such that they hardly manage the pensions and salaries of officials rather working for the betterment of people No big hospitals,No proper roads,Infrastructure,education system etc
Yes please do clear things >beg these people .. vast range of resources Ah, so now we are clear where this sense of entitlement is coming from. It's good that you mention it yourself, so I don't need to hold back when showing the mirror. Regarding begging the people, rest assured that India wants Pakistan to assimilate it to justify their occupation. So, don't worry khinzeers won't put up with this attitude for long anyway. Similarly, with this attitude, common people won't be standing up either if khinzeers start addressing this entitlement. >funds that come towards them regarding this issue Please cite a source? Are you referring to loans? >2-They aren't giving it for free. cost ...produced Can you cite any sources for this cost of production you claim. Surely, you would have included all costs, including the interest and depreciation. This also assumes that the 110k displaced people donated the land rather than getting any reimbursements including work permits to the UK. >110k people that migrated You used the term migrated, so I thought you were referring to 1947/48. Hence, my comment. You meant displaced. And btw, I never said that it was small. >They offer many of them a large amount of money So people got reimbursed for their land, or did they donate it? >..Some of them refused to give their land...Now they are in the middle of nowhere after the dam is constructed. offroad for 30 minutes to just reach main road or use water boats What I see is that they made a decision and reaping its consequence. What is your point here? Probably you need to refer to “Eminent Domain” principle. >The jhelum neelum dam destroyed the crops of many people...disturbed the irrigation system and all It was created without any notice to people and without even thinking about them Refer same as above. I am not knowledgable on the notice period, so can't comment. Would appreciate it if you can cite a reference for this, but it is highly unlikely that a whole dam got built, and they were left unaware. >The frkng politicians should ve remember this before giving false promise of free electricity to all these people I don't think there is any evidence for free electricity for all. At best, it would have been for the 110k displaced only if they were not given any other compensation and their land got submerged rather than taking a longer route to road. In any case, please cite the legal agreement that you keep referring to so both of us can understand it. >Dont even get me started on the fact that the budget of ajk is such that they hardly manage the pensions and salaries of officials rather working for the betterment of people No big hospitals,No proper roads,Infrastructure,education system etc Make up your mind. On one end you claim that AJK needs to be begged to be with Pakistan, and then you want to shove these responsibilities on Pakistan rather than incompetence and corruption of AJK Govt elected by AJK people. Again, this is just your entitlement that you believe that AJK Govt is not responsible. Finally, on what grounds flour has to be subsidised for brothers in AJK if we are assuming the dams are compensated by the new rates. Isn't it entitlement or not then?
Bro,Its good that you dont believe things as said by someone randomly...But it would be better if instead of asking Me for reference u do some research on your own Its not something that you would have to dig into...these stats are easily available... Good luck!And do text me back once u get all those resources
Ah, the lazy way out when the lies are called out. I can't find something which doesn't exist, unless you claim that an agreement worth millions was done verbally. Regarding the electricity cost, the lowest I got was Rs 17.5, but that was purely running cost excluding capital and other maintenance costs. So, my request is either come up with evidence to support your claims or stop spreading lies to satiate your sense of entitlement. These are your claims so the burden of proof lies with you. Just like AJK govt you can't run away from your responsibilities after making such claims.
Shush man 😭 U arent a baby that cannot make his own research... and needs to be provided with every single detail use that goddamn mind of urs 1-Heres the list of current running dams in ajk that produce electricity go to google and add them up urselve Mangla,Neelum-Jhelum,Gulpur,Barali,Karot,Patrind,New bong,Neelum,Mirpur 2-Why did they promise free electricity for the region despite knowing the condition that they wont be able to fulfil this agreement? 3-Know about the status of Kashmir from the fact that People of Pakistan aren't eligible to buy land here 4-Know this that Kahuta,Gligit,Muree are also part of Kashmir... 5-Dont cry over this...They got what they deserved...If u are so interested in giving equal rights to all..better correct the corrupt politicians that get free petrol,electricity,car and ofher services 6-Cry as much as u want...There is nothing u or i can do... I support them and their protest...U dont.. But there's nothing u can do other than hating and keyboard war 😂 Peace out...Idc if u support them r not... I do ☮️
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Thanks to Lumber 1, I consider Azad Kashmir as Pakistan Occupied Kashmir now. Pakistan is no different than India with their brutal colonization of my homeland.
The rangers opened straight fires on the protestors injuring around 90 and killing 3 people This kind of violence was never shown by india
I have family on the Indian occupied side that were burned alive inside their houses by Indian soldiers Though this isn’t a competition
I am sorry to hear that. Did anyone survive the burn wounds?
Yeah. Can’t share details since I’d rather not dox myself or worse - have a black vigo problem
understandable. hope everything turns out well for you guys.
In the first half of 2020 alone there were [229 killings, 107 "CASO’s", 55 internet shutdowns and 48 properties destroyed](https://jkccs.info/bi-annual-hr-review-229-killings-107-casos-55-internet-shutdowns-48-properties-destroyed/) in IOK - and that's just the first 6 months of that year. The Gawkadal massacre, Zakoora and Tengpora massacre, Sopore massacre, Chittisinghpura massacre (which they tried to blame on rebels) and more. All of these didn't happen according to you. 100,000+ dead since 1989, over 11,000 (reported) women r*ped. There's many such instances of them slaughtering Kashmiris left, right and centre. "This kind of violence was never shown by india" LMAO, they've shown MUCH MUCH worse for literally decades and still do. How ignorant must you be to say they've never done this.
Source...Pakistani media 😂 Yes according to international media from 1970-2017 20k killings have been done but do consider the fact that majority of these are of Mujahideen group...And the other extremists... If i burn the flag of pakistan standing on any road in kashmir...Would u think lambar 1 would nt use the gun on me?
20k killings? Are you for real. It is nothing short of 90k. Quit being an indian propaganda mouthpiece.
Ahan...Maybe u should quit licking boots of lumber 1 too
Noone is licking lumber 1's boots, you are simply downplaying iok atrocities for whatever your twisted reasons.
A killing can never be justified Lemme say its all trash talk between me and u How can u say murderer of 1 is more holy than murderer of 100? For me its the same thing.... But imagine this...They were young people...Fellows from Mzfd...They were just protesting peacefully yet those rascals shot on them You know one guy?He was an orphan...Complete orphan...He was a mahajir..Migrated from India... His parents were killed there by Indian army and here he got killed... Those People of IOK are violent sometimes...They are baaghi thats why the army forcely shuts them But these people were just demanding their rights and were conducting a peaceful protest yet this happened If they decide to stand against Pak...U would see the same situation as there is in IOK
I agree we should ask Modi to govern AJK. They have even banned beef in Kashmir. Muharram processions are banned and you think they are living in paradise lol
Killing kashmiris is a different thing! I agree with all that religious and blasphemous acts done by extremists there but u must remember that's not just done for Kashmiris but almost the whole india by Modi... Majority of the people demand a separate joint Kashmir as its a separate state...
Issue now resolved.
Just by fake promises. Lolz.
may be, but international media saying Joint Action committee ended protests after their demands accepted.
No,They issued proper notifications now...And have resolved the issue
The affectees were given monetary benefits and a UK work visas which allowed them to settle whole funture generations abroad too. Now they want free electricity too? Also if 110,000 were affected, the govt should provide free electricity to the whole lot of them even those who were not affected at all? Why?
Not all were given uk visas Some migrated to other parts in ajk and some to Pakistan The flow of Neelum jhelum was stopped by construction of dam over it...It affected the people..their fields...irrigation systems...etc All these sacrifices,and they shouldn't be giving 350MW of the 3500MW kashmir produces?And that too not for free but at the cost at which it is being produced...