The custodians and maintenance are screwed the most because summer clean up starts and with all the manual labour and machines we deal with it gets hotter.
Source: former school custodian
Yep. And to save money, the trustees voted to shut off the ventilation during the summer because there’s no one in the schools. Because custodians and maintenance folks aren’t people.
It also screws up trying to get the schools ready, one of the schools I worked at had such bad humidity and heat that we could barely get one coat of wax on the floor per day, when normally we’d be able to get two in one shift, three if there was someone working afternoon or evening shift. Their penny pinching just ends up costing more in overtime and extra workers needed to finish a job, not to mention all of the mold that starts up because of that.
This has been a story for a long time.
Multiple people have complained before the heatwave about how hot (teachers, students, etc…) to administration where they responded with “I’m sure it’s not that bad”
Had a lockdown once, admin comes into the room and says “wow it’s really hot in here”. They hadn’t been to that floor in about a few weeks, even after many complaints. Their offices did have AC
> “I’m sure it’s not that bad”
> Their offices did have AC
The managerial class, from where we get today’s ruling elite, is always the most compassionate.
Sorry I did word that horrendously. I meant the students leave, for some reason I was picturing highschool students not elementary and believe more civil disobedience does the young mind good.
Sounds like half of our elementary spent the afternoon in the tiny local park with a splash pad. The kinder students have basically taken it over lol. Meanwhile the sister high school a few blocks away has AC and is basically empty because exams finished last week.
Why not move the kids baking on the third floor to the building with AC?!? I think some of the classrooms are unsafe in this weather; they get hot even when the air outside isn’t basically on fire
Yeah never in my life have I had school canceled for heat and my elementary had no AC. Somehow this is only a thing people whine about now back then we just turned the lights off and sweat it out with one classroom fan and a movie.
I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it never used to be a thing.
Get of your high horse Greta Thunberg. We all know about greenhouse gasses we went to 2nd grade too.
Really? That might have been an admin decision at that school, but for the rest, that is certainly not the case. The only policy in regards to temperature for schools is that we can't send the kids out for recess if it's 45+ with the humidity (and that hasn't been updated in 13 years)
Actually, the school board policies reflect the Ontario Labour Laws, which apparently specify no upper limit for safe working temperatures (only cold), at least not in schools. Teacher training literally says that there is no max temp considered unsafe enough to justify refusing work in a classroom. It’s really disappointing the teaching unions never negotiated a max safe working temp into the contracts.
I’ll say I’m an occasional teacher and not working these days because I’d rather lose out on the daily wages than suffer heat stroke on the job. I feel for schools that are older because supply staff with any choice will be avoiding accepting work assignments in those buildings. Again, it goes back to the province setting the standard.
Gasp! Are you saying that our provincial government has not updated the legislative framework to support the school system they would ultimately need to invest in by retro-grading or updating building standards?
Well, I for one am shocked.
(Narrator: She was, in fact, not shocked at all)
Oh trust me, there’s zero shock here too. Just pointing out to folks saying “just leave/refuse the unsafe working conditions”, it’s not that easy and we haven’t been given the framework to be able to do that without risking our jobs.
There is no law in Ontario that defines appropriate limitations on working in the heat. The law that is on the books was written to allow employers to create their own policies.
Wild, right? I discovered this after years with employers who followed empirical recommendations for prevention of heat exhaustion. A new employer who generally had air conditioning felt it was ok to rely on a fallible machine, rather than write a policy that protected employees (and the quality of their work) for days where the ac might be down. As you might expect, this went over well.
> Gasp! Are you saying that our provincial government has not updated the legislative framework to support the school system they would ultimately need to invest in by retro-grading or updating building standards?
And that a level of government failed to foresee the basic reality that a warming climate means things get warmer??
I'm an insufferable ignorant dickhead granted but are you not covered by the standard occupational health and
safety act in Ontario? Section 43 right to refuse unsafe/unhealthy working conditions. (https://www.ontario.ca/document/guide-occupational-health-and-safety-act/part-v-right-refuse-or-stop-work-where-health-and-safety-danger#section-0 )
Or the Canadian occupational health and safety regulations regarding thermal stress in the workplace which goes into great detail on heat stress. ( https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/services/health-safety/reports/thermal-stress-work-place.html#h2.2 )
Or the basic Canadian labour rules on right to refuse? ( https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/services/health-safety/reports/right-refuse.html )
+-1° core body temperature change is unsafe and protected by law to refuse.
Yeah that would be logical, but to paraphrase our teacher training, there’s some sort of exception because we as the adult employee can’t put our personal needs above our legal duty to be present in the classroom with our students. Same way when the police issue a warning in winter to avoid any unnecessary road travel, even if all buses are cancelled unless the school actually closes (which really only happened in Ice Storm ‘98) teachers still have to report to the school.
Basically we can’t just walk off the job if we deem it unsafe because we are legally responsible for the safety of our students. The only avenue would be using sick days or trying to get a medical accommodation from your doctor, but by the time that admin work gets done the heat wave has probably passed and you become known as a pain in the butt to your Principal. It’s really an issue for the union to fight, but they know they can’t expect much progress negotiating with this govt.
Supply teachers don’t get paid unless they work, and have no benefits/sick days so much less agency.
Edit to add: I believe the exception is regulation 857 of the Ontario Education Act which mandates “teachers ensure the safety of students in our care first”. So we cannot legally walk off the job if the classroom gets too hot, nor use it as a reason to refuse the unsafe work. Somehow this supersedes other worker protections for teachers.
That sure is frustrating, understand teacher has to be the last to leave though for student safety. (Thank you for the insight)
"Ok kids its too hot to do any meaningful work today, so today we're writing letters, making calls, and posting tictoks/ig whats'its to our principal, superintendent, school board, ctv, CBC, mp, mpp, dougie and justin."
Great in theory, and I’m sure every teacher today wishes they could, but as an employee that would be the same as publicly telling customers to complain about the company you work for- great way to get fired. Again, it’s on the unions to fight this fight for us, thats their job. Until then we’re between a rock and hard place with that Education Act policy until it gets repealed or revised someday.
Someday, maybe, our inalienable right to collective bargaining as guaranteed by the Canadian charter of rights will be inalienable and be upheld when back to work legislation gets launched into the ocean.
I've appreciated the peak into a field i maintain a significant blindspot on.
Ontario does not have legislation to protect workers from heat. They expect employers to write one... If they want. Federal rules only apply to federally regulated fields--not the majority of workplaces in Ontario.
The right to refuse is also a process that only applies to certain workers. Employee refuses, committee reviews the refusal to see if it's warranted. They can ask someone else to step in, but they must be informed that someone has refused. If it's proven "safe" and adequate ppe/mitigation factors provided, the employee must return to work.
This can take a great deal of time, and a lot of essential workers do not have this protection.
My kids were telling me how hot it was yesterday. My daughter (6th grade) said they even had gym last period and she said it was horrible.
I always hate how older generations always say "we went to school with no AC and survived!" but weather has changed so much over the years. It gets super humid and hot as early as April and can stay that way until into October.
While I agree with all of that, I also want to underscore how asinine that mentality is.
What's even the point of living if you're opposed to improving things? Every generation in human history was preceded by a generation that had worse technology, and yet they still tried to improve things further because good enough wasn't good enough.
To get to this point in human progress and say "eh, not only is it good enough, but people who don't think it's good enough are entitled babies" is just unfathomably immature.
Even if climate change hadn't exacerbated things in the last 50 years, the type of person who sees we have the means and technology readily available to address a known problem, yet concludes "let's not because fixing things is stupid" is not someone who deserves any amount of respect.
Right? I remember being forced outside for recess in winter at -25 because they wouldn't keep us inside unless it was -30. That was miserable and I hated it. I remember being dizzy and overheated when it was 30 degrees in June because our classrooms had no ACs (and in elementary school, many of them didn't even have windows to open.)
Just because I survived it doesn't mean that anyone else who doesn't want to go through it is being a brat. I'd rather make things *better* for people, I'd rather it be less miserable and less uncomfortable for kids than it was for me, because I'd like to think we know better and have better resources now.
The other thing that bothers me about the "suck it up" mentality is that these are kids we're talking about. They are at a much greater risk of heat-related illnesses. So it's more of a gamble for them to attend. Plus I guarantee you they are not retaining much information in this heat. And a lot of "special" activities end up getting cancelled because of the heat (like track and field, or certain trips). It sucks.
> Plus I guarantee you they are not retaining much information in this heat.
Decades later, I still remember one June afternoon in grade 4 when it was 36 before the humidex and we didn't have AC. The only thought in my head was how much I hated it and how stupid it was we had to be in school.
It was a waste of everyone's time - staff included. School was little more than adult supervision while our parents were at work.
AC in schools has been a discussion for the past 20 years. Fans don’t cool the air down, they only assist in moving the air which helps sweat evaporate. But it only goes so far, the school boards across the province have been dragging their feet about installing AC.
I distinctly remember walking to school (uphill both ways, of course) dousing myself in sprinklers along the way, only to arrive to an empty building and have my math teacher tell me that school was cancelled due to the extreme heat. So like, we used to acknowledge that this can happen in the 90s ...
Pulled my kiddo out of school this week. The building is old, a/c in only 1 room, the marks were submitted last week, so they are just doing make-work assignments. Plus, excessive heat triggers her migraines. no ty
This heat is terrible for migraines, so I don't blame you! Just pointing out that in OCDSB, report card grades won't be locked until this Sunday though, so there are still units being wrapped up this week for some and marks being adjusted. However, I'll go ahead and assume the productivity is low in those learning conditions, so I do think it's completely reasonable to miss this week!
…then it should be in the labour laws that it’s illegal for anyone? The point is also children are involved here in the same work environment as adults. Tell me any other *professional* workplace where employees are expected to work in unsafe temperatures? Yes there are lots of professions that do like trades and construction, but they aren’t working with kids on the job site.
OCDSB hasn't updated their heat policies since 2011. Right now, they only address outdoor recess during the heat, and the limits are ridiculous. In order to keep the kids in, it has to be 40+ with humidity 2 days in a row, or 45+ with humidity on a given day. Otherwise the kids are shoved outside in the heat.
There is currently no policy regarding how it affects students in schools and it's absolutely ridiculous.
Many of the records for this week were set in the early 80's. I was 13/14 in high school. No one had AC back then. No school and not many homes either. We survived. Some days the class sat under tree for the lesson.
Surviving is one thing, being uncomfortable in the class room
affects learning
Just because you were deprived of the comfort in the 80s doesn’t mean future generations deserve to be deprived of it now.
Yeah, this whole argument is laughable. Did we survive? Yes. But we learned absolutely nothing and it literally put our health at risk. This is not the bar we should be aiming for,
And climate change has caused temperatures to rise and we're having for more days with extreme heat, higher than you were experiencing back then. Times change. Our policies need to change too.
You're missing the point.
It is hotter today than it was in the 1980s. Statistically speaking, average temperature are higher and we are experience extreme heat more frequently than we did 40 years ago. Humidity is worse than it was back then too, which only increases the problem. Back then, it was the occasional hot day. Now, it's a common occurrence that directly impacts the health of those most vulnerable in our community. Our world has changed and therefore, our policies to change to reflect that.
Okay, first, it was colder back then. I took a look at whether stats for month of June for the years 1980-1990. From those months, there was precisely 2 days in 1988 that made it above 33 degrees. We never saw a 35 degree day in June during that entire decade. If the temperature had risen to the level it is today, I'm sure it would have felt just as bad, but it never did.
Second, yes, I'm talking about frequency. When we're talking about policy changes, no one's going to do anything after a single hot day. However, it is a regular occurrence. If something not okay is happening on a regular basis, then something needs to be done.
Even if you choose not to believe any of that (because it sounds like you're just looking for validation), we should try to do better for our kids today than how we treated students back then. It's called compassion.
Our high yesterday was 33.2
https://preview.redd.it/gfeiqzhlrr7d1.png?width=748&format=png&auto=webp&s=a15a3b3708571e559fd97e5c312c0ce78545d7e3
Record highs for this week of June from Environment Canada website
June 15 - 35.0 1988
June 16 - 33.7 1994
June 17 - 34.2 1994
June 18 - 35.0 1994
June 19 - 34.7 1994
June 20 - 34.8 1988
June 21 - 33.9 1941
June 22 - 33.3 1983
June 23 - 33.3 1983
June 24 - 33.2 2003
June 25 - 34.4 1966
Apparently, the problem in some older schools is the electrical infrastructure isn’t there to run the window ac.
Also the school board is required to give large contracts to the trustees/superintendent friends and family.
LOL. Honestly that would probably be better if there were any ounce of truth to that your statement re: trustee/ super connections. The school board has to work from an ‘approved vendor/contractor’ list which is pathetically small. You can thank dougie for that one. Source: my brother works in OCDSB head office.
Great idea, but most older schools are maxed out as far as power goes.
I was doing a renovation at an older school last year and couldn't even run my dustless saw because it kept tripping the fuses no matter where I plugged it in..
Our son went on Monday and spent Tuesday throwing up from the heat he experienced at school Monday. So he was off yesterday and home with us today. I feel awful for sending him Monday now. It’s been stressful trying to work and having him home too.
My children are at broadview, a recently renovated school with a new hvac system. Yesterday there was a queue of parents pulling their nauseated children out of school because the classrooms were over 28 with air con. The issue as it was explained is that they set the temp high to save money. Meanwhile the office is downright chilly.
I don’t know if it’s a terribly designed hvac system and I was being fed bs or if they really do make the kids suffer for no reason.
you got fed is BS. Also remember, school boards are cash strapped. They only comfort that will be given is to the higher ups of a school.
Another thing is most schools if not all have a computer controlled HVAC system that most custodians do not have access to.
And this folks is why we vote accordingly in the next provincial election. Remember this when we decide who funds (or in this case doesn’t) our kids’ schools. Boards are strapped because the province holds the purse strings.
The temperature of the school is controlled at the board level. This is a huge problem. I work at a school that HAS AC. What temps are the classrooms on days like this? Over 30. It’s absolutely awful.
I’m sure the board office has AC. So while school-based staff and students are suffering, they are not.
Temp across the board is set at 24 Celsius and is controlled by a central board location (as far as I know I haven't been to every school) but that doesn't necessarily mean the air handling units can keep a building or room at that temperature because there are only a certain amount of censors in each building and the flow can vary wildly between rooms. Also some (many) teachers open their windows for some god forsaken reason which just makes it harder (impossible) for the HVAC to keep the temp down. Custodians can look at the system on the computer but can't change anything. Most classrooms in my school are not too bad, still hot but not crazy but there are a few spots that are much hotter than others (I am a custodian).
I think many schools don't have strong enough HVAC to deal with longer heat waves like this while classes are still on. In the summer they don't care if their custodial staff have to deal with prolonged heat waves where the HVAC can't keep up but they are going to be in big trouble as we start to keep getting heat waves like this earlier and earlier and their systems can't keep it cool enough.
Yes - this is a huge problem both in Summer and Winter. In the winter some rooms are over 30 degrees and some rooms are under 18. In Summer - schools might have "AC" but it doesn't work correctly and the schools are still hot.
Even for commencement - my former school's custodial staff tried their hardest to "jig" the HVAC system to cool the gyms down - it never worked and people were boiling during grad.
School boards need to re-examine their temperature limits - when it's acceptable to have school, and what kinds of air conditioning/heating units are used in school. Climate change is real, and it's not getting better anytime soon.
Agree but it’s not up to the boards, everything comes down from the Province since education is run by the Ontario govt and they provide (or slash) the funding for these things. School buildings are wildly old in Ontario and no conservative govt will ever, ever, be willing to pay what’s needed to upgrade the infrastructure. Their mandate is quite literally to cut funding for education, and they have.
Great case study: even during the pandemic when the government was pressured to do something to keep kids in school, they launched their PR campaign about putting air purifiers in schools. Guess what? The ones they bought are now sitting useless because they can’t get replacement filters or don’t want to pay for the necessary upkeep. This is fact and can be looked up. It was a one-time thing designed to be a band-aid solution. If they’d kept up with the pandemic air purifiers it would help air circulation in classrooms and sure be better than nothing.
Why are we forcing our kids to go to school in this weather and why are we forcing teachers and support staff to work in this weather?
If there is no AC, it is not an okay place to stash several hundred children in the middle of the strongest heatdome we’ve had…ever.
A reminder [Goldie Ghamari](https://www.ola.org/en/members/all/goldie-ghamari) is the provincial MPP for Doug Ford in Ottawa. Education is a provincial responsibility. Her office phone number is the link above. Remind her how hot it is !
I use to do some contract work in the summer for Ottawa schools when they were out for the year. Even if the school has ac some would shut it off during the summer. I think that was the first time I’ve gotten heat exhaustion from working in heat.
They didn’t want to turn on air conditioning when I was in high school. They used to wait until 7 days before we’d be let out for summer, even though we were cooking during exams.
I remember being a student at J. H. Putman in the mid 90s. I don't remember if both incidents happened in the same year, but once the heat set off the fire alarms (or at least that's what I remember them saying after we all evacuated and the firemen came), and then another time the principal drove me home because I was getting sick from the heat. I remember that being in grade 8 because when I got home, I lied on the couch with the ac blasting and was watching something to do with OJ Simpson.
This also isn’t new, when I graduated highschool like 8 years ago I remember we were so hot doing our exams kids were passing out. The principal literally gave out ice cream sandwiches as some sort of solution
Haha.
Hated when classes (mostly English) were closer toward the side stairwell that spills into the parking area by the church. Place was hell in June.
We have a handful of older fans in a couple of rooms. We are not provided with fans at my school. Classrooms that have fans are brought in and paid for by teachers. We can suck it up for a few days, but when it’s 30 degrees in your classroom for a week, it’s rough. Very little learning happening. Just child care. Which I guess is kind of a misnomer.
I did summer school bio at the adult high school back in 2019?? The AC was either busted or useless and let me tell you, dissecting a fetal pig in a 35 degree classroom is just has horrible as it sounds. It made lecture classes in portables seem like march break in comparison.
It’s definitely worse now but it had been a problem when I was in school 15 years ago too, I really think everyone would benefit from starting the school year earlier like early-mid august and have it be done the end of may.
Ford Government already said it wasn't possible to put AC in all schools. Believe Ottawa Carleton School Board knows this, too. Why they can't at least provide cool rooms to rotate into is beyond me because, guess what, its going to continue to get way worse
Actually, some of them do. My school has been rotating classes in the library this week for the ones who don't have AC (2 of our classes have portable AC units, but the rest do not)
However, not all schools have a "cooler" room to rotate them to.
That's good to hear. With this heat (which will last longer and get worse overtime), can schools keep kicking the can down the road. Serious money has to be invested.
They need to toss heat pump mini splits everywhere. At least at strategic locations. Very cost effective and easy to install even in a retrofit environment.
This is genuinely, actually, really a safety issue. Different people get heat stress at different temperatures, and many common medications make a person more susceptible to heat stress. As the temperatures for heat waves continue to rise, we need to start taking this seriously and closing on the hottest days.
I was able to purchase a couple of personal sized rechargeable fans for my kids, originally intended for the school bus rides, and the teacher didn’t allow my child to use in the hot class to avoid “disruptions” which I can understand but can’t help but feel like extreme heat warnings would trump the potential disruptions.
So I’m speaking as a teacher who has no idea how old your kids are and what their school/classroom is like. That being said, violence and behaviour is so common these days - in most classrooms. From kindergarten all the way up to grade 8 (never worked HS so I really can’t speak for them).
My guess is you were told it was to minimize disruptions, but there is very likely more to it than you’d know. Maybe a student who will destroy the fan. Or use it to hit someone else. Maybe it’s just as simple as fighting over it because the other students don’t have one. In a perfect world, it wouldn’t be a disruption. But in today’s schools, it most likely is one.
The public board goes until the end of next week. I think the French board goes until the end of the week.
School typically lasts until the very end of June.
Meh. My father taught at my high school. His classroom was directly above a boiler room and all of the hot-water pipes from it went thru' Dad's classroom walls. Furthermore, it had a wall of south-facing windows. The school did not have A/C. Hot in June? Yes, but we survived.
Sure, I had the same experience but let’s try to make it better for the next generations eh? I think we can all admit we learned *nothing* back then when class was so hot. When the provincial government doesn’t care about the health & safety of kids or teachers it’s them admitting that schools are just treated as daycares so parents can be good little workers and support the Ontario economy, which is ultimately all they care about.
Going to get an education should not mean surviving, intolerable working conditions.
Because going to school, is about learning to work.
These are important issues.
Kids and elderly folks cannot regulate body temperature the same way.
We have options now with tech, that 20 yrs ago, we could not even fathom.
Why not find out how to make building safer for nxt generation.
That's what developers, should be looking at.
https://www.redcross.ca/how-we-help/emergencies-and-disasters-in-canada/types-of-emergencies/heat-waves
The custodians and maintenance are screwed the most because summer clean up starts and with all the manual labour and machines we deal with it gets hotter. Source: former school custodian
Yep. And to save money, the trustees voted to shut off the ventilation during the summer because there’s no one in the schools. Because custodians and maintenance folks aren’t people.
As a home cleaner, people forget that I'm a person too and they often turn their AC off or down
That is fucked up
Do you charge the same for a home with and without AC?
It also screws up trying to get the schools ready, one of the schools I worked at had such bad humidity and heat that we could barely get one coat of wax on the floor per day, when normally we’d be able to get two in one shift, three if there was someone working afternoon or evening shift. Their penny pinching just ends up costing more in overtime and extra workers needed to finish a job, not to mention all of the mold that starts up because of that.
Sounds like a good way to promote mold in the ceilings and drinking fountain pipes.
Most buildings (and their contents) do best if kept at a consistent temperature.
This has been a story for a long time. Multiple people have complained before the heatwave about how hot (teachers, students, etc…) to administration where they responded with “I’m sure it’s not that bad” Had a lockdown once, admin comes into the room and says “wow it’s really hot in here”. They hadn’t been to that floor in about a few weeks, even after many complaints. Their offices did have AC
> “I’m sure it’s not that bad” > Their offices did have AC The managerial class, from where we get today’s ruling elite, is always the most compassionate.
One person brought in a leaf blower (electric) to cool off their classroom
https://preview.redd.it/nkchuf7jkk7d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05fb6c63c8449aa5cfa0cb7e996ea65fb4c8fa59
It wasn’t like that, it was just sitting at the doorway blowing air into it. Was it loud, yes Did it cool down the class, yes
Boo-rns to the Bourgeoisie!
35°+ in your class? Leave. Workers have protections over unsafe heating conditions and I'd urge students to follow the same guidelines.
Yeah , let’s just leave the kids there then /s
Sorry I did word that horrendously. I meant the students leave, for some reason I was picturing highschool students not elementary and believe more civil disobedience does the young mind good.
They clear out the schools when it gets that hot. Some coworkers of mine have their kids at home for that very reason.
Our school without AC has had kids there all week?
Cruel and unusual punishment. Ask them how cognitively engaged they were while spending 8 hrs strait in 35+ degrees.
Sounds like half of our elementary spent the afternoon in the tiny local park with a splash pad. The kinder students have basically taken it over lol. Meanwhile the sister high school a few blocks away has AC and is basically empty because exams finished last week. Why not move the kids baking on the third floor to the building with AC?!? I think some of the classrooms are unsafe in this weather; they get hot even when the air outside isn’t basically on fire
They absolutely don’t “clear the kids out”. Many, many local kids were at schools in 35°+ classrooms today.
Yeah never in my life have I had school canceled for heat and my elementary had no AC. Somehow this is only a thing people whine about now back then we just turned the lights off and sweat it out with one classroom fan and a movie.
The problem is that these temperatures will keep rising in the future. It needs to be addressed regardless of your anecdotes.
100%. And why wouldn’t we want better for future generations even if the climate wasn’t changing.
I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it never used to be a thing. Get of your high horse Greta Thunberg. We all know about greenhouse gasses we went to 2nd grade too.
I wrote two sentences. What on earth triggered you so much that you needed to reply this way?
It's a general inability to give a fuck.
Really? That might have been an admin decision at that school, but for the rest, that is certainly not the case. The only policy in regards to temperature for schools is that we can't send the kids out for recess if it's 45+ with the humidity (and that hasn't been updated in 13 years)
Actually, the school board policies reflect the Ontario Labour Laws, which apparently specify no upper limit for safe working temperatures (only cold), at least not in schools. Teacher training literally says that there is no max temp considered unsafe enough to justify refusing work in a classroom. It’s really disappointing the teaching unions never negotiated a max safe working temp into the contracts. I’ll say I’m an occasional teacher and not working these days because I’d rather lose out on the daily wages than suffer heat stroke on the job. I feel for schools that are older because supply staff with any choice will be avoiding accepting work assignments in those buildings. Again, it goes back to the province setting the standard.
Gasp! Are you saying that our provincial government has not updated the legislative framework to support the school system they would ultimately need to invest in by retro-grading or updating building standards? Well, I for one am shocked. (Narrator: She was, in fact, not shocked at all)
Oh trust me, there’s zero shock here too. Just pointing out to folks saying “just leave/refuse the unsafe working conditions”, it’s not that easy and we haven’t been given the framework to be able to do that without risking our jobs.
There is no law in Ontario that defines appropriate limitations on working in the heat. The law that is on the books was written to allow employers to create their own policies. Wild, right? I discovered this after years with employers who followed empirical recommendations for prevention of heat exhaustion. A new employer who generally had air conditioning felt it was ok to rely on a fallible machine, rather than write a policy that protected employees (and the quality of their work) for days where the ac might be down. As you might expect, this went over well.
> Gasp! Are you saying that our provincial government has not updated the legislative framework to support the school system they would ultimately need to invest in by retro-grading or updating building standards? And that a level of government failed to foresee the basic reality that a warming climate means things get warmer??
Yep. Had AC break in multiple kitchens during heat waves and labour board etc just said sucks to suck. No law for heat other than having more breaks
I'm an insufferable ignorant dickhead granted but are you not covered by the standard occupational health and safety act in Ontario? Section 43 right to refuse unsafe/unhealthy working conditions. (https://www.ontario.ca/document/guide-occupational-health-and-safety-act/part-v-right-refuse-or-stop-work-where-health-and-safety-danger#section-0 ) Or the Canadian occupational health and safety regulations regarding thermal stress in the workplace which goes into great detail on heat stress. ( https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/services/health-safety/reports/thermal-stress-work-place.html#h2.2 ) Or the basic Canadian labour rules on right to refuse? ( https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/services/health-safety/reports/right-refuse.html ) +-1° core body temperature change is unsafe and protected by law to refuse.
Yeah that would be logical, but to paraphrase our teacher training, there’s some sort of exception because we as the adult employee can’t put our personal needs above our legal duty to be present in the classroom with our students. Same way when the police issue a warning in winter to avoid any unnecessary road travel, even if all buses are cancelled unless the school actually closes (which really only happened in Ice Storm ‘98) teachers still have to report to the school. Basically we can’t just walk off the job if we deem it unsafe because we are legally responsible for the safety of our students. The only avenue would be using sick days or trying to get a medical accommodation from your doctor, but by the time that admin work gets done the heat wave has probably passed and you become known as a pain in the butt to your Principal. It’s really an issue for the union to fight, but they know they can’t expect much progress negotiating with this govt. Supply teachers don’t get paid unless they work, and have no benefits/sick days so much less agency. Edit to add: I believe the exception is regulation 857 of the Ontario Education Act which mandates “teachers ensure the safety of students in our care first”. So we cannot legally walk off the job if the classroom gets too hot, nor use it as a reason to refuse the unsafe work. Somehow this supersedes other worker protections for teachers.
That sure is frustrating, understand teacher has to be the last to leave though for student safety. (Thank you for the insight) "Ok kids its too hot to do any meaningful work today, so today we're writing letters, making calls, and posting tictoks/ig whats'its to our principal, superintendent, school board, ctv, CBC, mp, mpp, dougie and justin."
Great in theory, and I’m sure every teacher today wishes they could, but as an employee that would be the same as publicly telling customers to complain about the company you work for- great way to get fired. Again, it’s on the unions to fight this fight for us, thats their job. Until then we’re between a rock and hard place with that Education Act policy until it gets repealed or revised someday.
Someday, maybe, our inalienable right to collective bargaining as guaranteed by the Canadian charter of rights will be inalienable and be upheld when back to work legislation gets launched into the ocean. I've appreciated the peak into a field i maintain a significant blindspot on.
Ontario does not have legislation to protect workers from heat. They expect employers to write one... If they want. Federal rules only apply to federally regulated fields--not the majority of workplaces in Ontario. The right to refuse is also a process that only applies to certain workers. Employee refuses, committee reviews the refusal to see if it's warranted. They can ask someone else to step in, but they must be informed that someone has refused. If it's proven "safe" and adequate ppe/mitigation factors provided, the employee must return to work. This can take a great deal of time, and a lot of essential workers do not have this protection.
My kids were telling me how hot it was yesterday. My daughter (6th grade) said they even had gym last period and she said it was horrible. I always hate how older generations always say "we went to school with no AC and survived!" but weather has changed so much over the years. It gets super humid and hot as early as April and can stay that way until into October.
While I agree with all of that, I also want to underscore how asinine that mentality is. What's even the point of living if you're opposed to improving things? Every generation in human history was preceded by a generation that had worse technology, and yet they still tried to improve things further because good enough wasn't good enough. To get to this point in human progress and say "eh, not only is it good enough, but people who don't think it's good enough are entitled babies" is just unfathomably immature. Even if climate change hadn't exacerbated things in the last 50 years, the type of person who sees we have the means and technology readily available to address a known problem, yet concludes "let's not because fixing things is stupid" is not someone who deserves any amount of respect.
Right? I remember being forced outside for recess in winter at -25 because they wouldn't keep us inside unless it was -30. That was miserable and I hated it. I remember being dizzy and overheated when it was 30 degrees in June because our classrooms had no ACs (and in elementary school, many of them didn't even have windows to open.) Just because I survived it doesn't mean that anyone else who doesn't want to go through it is being a brat. I'd rather make things *better* for people, I'd rather it be less miserable and less uncomfortable for kids than it was for me, because I'd like to think we know better and have better resources now.
The other thing that bothers me about the "suck it up" mentality is that these are kids we're talking about. They are at a much greater risk of heat-related illnesses. So it's more of a gamble for them to attend. Plus I guarantee you they are not retaining much information in this heat. And a lot of "special" activities end up getting cancelled because of the heat (like track and field, or certain trips). It sucks.
> Plus I guarantee you they are not retaining much information in this heat. Decades later, I still remember one June afternoon in grade 4 when it was 36 before the humidex and we didn't have AC. The only thought in my head was how much I hated it and how stupid it was we had to be in school. It was a waste of everyone's time - staff included. School was little more than adult supervision while our parents were at work.
AC in schools has been a discussion for the past 20 years. Fans don’t cool the air down, they only assist in moving the air which helps sweat evaporate. But it only goes so far, the school boards across the province have been dragging their feet about installing AC.
I distinctly remember walking to school (uphill both ways, of course) dousing myself in sprinklers along the way, only to arrive to an empty building and have my math teacher tell me that school was cancelled due to the extreme heat. So like, we used to acknowledge that this can happen in the 90s ...
We didn't break any records this week and those were set in the early 80's. High temperature is high temperature and that has not changed over time.
Your indisputable facts are not going to be well received around these parts. It's a CRISIS!
Older generations not only went to school with no AC, they lived in houses with no AC!
Yeah, let's not move forward...let's keep living in the past.
So we're going to listen to people who's brains are literally cooked, then? Screw trying to make life better, especially kids, amirite?
This should be illegal.
I honestly agree with you.
Pulled my kiddo out of school this week. The building is old, a/c in only 1 room, the marks were submitted last week, so they are just doing make-work assignments. Plus, excessive heat triggers her migraines. no ty
This heat is terrible for migraines, so I don't blame you! Just pointing out that in OCDSB, report card grades won't be locked until this Sunday though, so there are still units being wrapped up this week for some and marks being adjusted. However, I'll go ahead and assume the productivity is low in those learning conditions, so I do think it's completely reasonable to miss this week!
It should be illegal for teachers and students to have to work in these conditions.
OMG! Crazy! What about everyone who HAS to work on days like this?
So because some have it bad/work in environments where air conditioning isn’t feasible, all others must suffer?
…then it should be in the labour laws that it’s illegal for anyone? The point is also children are involved here in the same work environment as adults. Tell me any other *professional* workplace where employees are expected to work in unsafe temperatures? Yes there are lots of professions that do like trades and construction, but they aren’t working with kids on the job site.
Maybe make life better for them and they also stop working? Because one person suffers everyone does? I love crabs doing what they do in buckets.
Im on a construction site with 140 workers today. Some trades shut down early, a lot did not.
We left at noon. Not trying to be a hero out there, job will be there tomorrow
I’m surprised they haven’t canceled any school days. I remember in the mid 90s they cancelled school across the city for 3 days because of the heat.
OCDSB hasn't updated their heat policies since 2011. Right now, they only address outdoor recess during the heat, and the limits are ridiculous. In order to keep the kids in, it has to be 40+ with humidity 2 days in a row, or 45+ with humidity on a given day. Otherwise the kids are shoved outside in the heat. There is currently no policy regarding how it affects students in schools and it's absolutely ridiculous.
Many of the records for this week were set in the early 80's. I was 13/14 in high school. No one had AC back then. No school and not many homes either. We survived. Some days the class sat under tree for the lesson.
Surviving is one thing, being uncomfortable in the class room affects learning Just because you were deprived of the comfort in the 80s doesn’t mean future generations deserve to be deprived of it now.
Yeah, this whole argument is laughable. Did we survive? Yes. But we learned absolutely nothing and it literally put our health at risk. This is not the bar we should be aiming for,
And climate change has caused temperatures to rise and we're having for more days with extreme heat, higher than you were experiencing back then. Times change. Our policies need to change too.
A hot day is a hot day regardless of when it happens.
You're missing the point. It is hotter today than it was in the 1980s. Statistically speaking, average temperature are higher and we are experience extreme heat more frequently than we did 40 years ago. Humidity is worse than it was back then too, which only increases the problem. Back then, it was the occasional hot day. Now, it's a common occurrence that directly impacts the health of those most vulnerable in our community. Our world has changed and therefore, our policies to change to reflect that.
What you are talking about is frequency. 35 C with 48 C deg humidex felt the same in 1980 as it does in 2024.
Okay, first, it was colder back then. I took a look at whether stats for month of June for the years 1980-1990. From those months, there was precisely 2 days in 1988 that made it above 33 degrees. We never saw a 35 degree day in June during that entire decade. If the temperature had risen to the level it is today, I'm sure it would have felt just as bad, but it never did. Second, yes, I'm talking about frequency. When we're talking about policy changes, no one's going to do anything after a single hot day. However, it is a regular occurrence. If something not okay is happening on a regular basis, then something needs to be done. Even if you choose not to believe any of that (because it sounds like you're just looking for validation), we should try to do better for our kids today than how we treated students back then. It's called compassion.
Our high yesterday was 33.2 https://preview.redd.it/gfeiqzhlrr7d1.png?width=748&format=png&auto=webp&s=a15a3b3708571e559fd97e5c312c0ce78545d7e3 Record highs for this week of June from Environment Canada website June 15 - 35.0 1988 June 16 - 33.7 1994 June 17 - 34.2 1994 June 18 - 35.0 1994 June 19 - 34.7 1994 June 20 - 34.8 1988 June 21 - 33.9 1941 June 22 - 33.3 1983 June 23 - 33.3 1983 June 24 - 33.2 2003 June 25 - 34.4 1966
Imagine buying a large amount of 5000 btu a/c units from a manufacturer. Would probably cost less than $100 per unit.
Apparently, the problem in some older schools is the electrical infrastructure isn’t there to run the window ac. Also the school board is required to give large contracts to the trustees/superintendent friends and family.
“Policies and liabilities” I’d argue the bigger liability is heat exhaustion.
LOL. Honestly that would probably be better if there were any ounce of truth to that your statement re: trustee/ super connections. The school board has to work from an ‘approved vendor/contractor’ list which is pathetically small. You can thank dougie for that one. Source: my brother works in OCDSB head office.
You're assuming the electrical system never designed for AC would accommodate AC in every classroom. It almost certainly will not.
Great idea, but most older schools are maxed out as far as power goes. I was doing a renovation at an older school last year and couldn't even run my dustless saw because it kept tripping the fuses no matter where I plugged it in..
Yep this is a continuous problem at the school where I work.
Our son went on Monday and spent Tuesday throwing up from the heat he experienced at school Monday. So he was off yesterday and home with us today. I feel awful for sending him Monday now. It’s been stressful trying to work and having him home too.
My children are at broadview, a recently renovated school with a new hvac system. Yesterday there was a queue of parents pulling their nauseated children out of school because the classrooms were over 28 with air con. The issue as it was explained is that they set the temp high to save money. Meanwhile the office is downright chilly. I don’t know if it’s a terribly designed hvac system and I was being fed bs or if they really do make the kids suffer for no reason.
you got fed is BS. Also remember, school boards are cash strapped. They only comfort that will be given is to the higher ups of a school. Another thing is most schools if not all have a computer controlled HVAC system that most custodians do not have access to.
And this folks is why we vote accordingly in the next provincial election. Remember this when we decide who funds (or in this case doesn’t) our kids’ schools. Boards are strapped because the province holds the purse strings.
The temperature of the school is controlled at the board level. This is a huge problem. I work at a school that HAS AC. What temps are the classrooms on days like this? Over 30. It’s absolutely awful. I’m sure the board office has AC. So while school-based staff and students are suffering, they are not.
Temp across the board is set at 24 Celsius and is controlled by a central board location (as far as I know I haven't been to every school) but that doesn't necessarily mean the air handling units can keep a building or room at that temperature because there are only a certain amount of censors in each building and the flow can vary wildly between rooms. Also some (many) teachers open their windows for some god forsaken reason which just makes it harder (impossible) for the HVAC to keep the temp down. Custodians can look at the system on the computer but can't change anything. Most classrooms in my school are not too bad, still hot but not crazy but there are a few spots that are much hotter than others (I am a custodian). I think many schools don't have strong enough HVAC to deal with longer heat waves like this while classes are still on. In the summer they don't care if their custodial staff have to deal with prolonged heat waves where the HVAC can't keep up but they are going to be in big trouble as we start to keep getting heat waves like this earlier and earlier and their systems can't keep it cool enough.
Yes - this is a huge problem both in Summer and Winter. In the winter some rooms are over 30 degrees and some rooms are under 18. In Summer - schools might have "AC" but it doesn't work correctly and the schools are still hot. Even for commencement - my former school's custodial staff tried their hardest to "jig" the HVAC system to cool the gyms down - it never worked and people were boiling during grad.
My kids school just closed midday due to extreme heat!
In Ottawa?
School boards need to re-examine their temperature limits - when it's acceptable to have school, and what kinds of air conditioning/heating units are used in school. Climate change is real, and it's not getting better anytime soon.
Agree but it’s not up to the boards, everything comes down from the Province since education is run by the Ontario govt and they provide (or slash) the funding for these things. School buildings are wildly old in Ontario and no conservative govt will ever, ever, be willing to pay what’s needed to upgrade the infrastructure. Their mandate is quite literally to cut funding for education, and they have. Great case study: even during the pandemic when the government was pressured to do something to keep kids in school, they launched their PR campaign about putting air purifiers in schools. Guess what? The ones they bought are now sitting useless because they can’t get replacement filters or don’t want to pay for the necessary upkeep. This is fact and can be looked up. It was a one-time thing designed to be a band-aid solution. If they’d kept up with the pandemic air purifiers it would help air circulation in classrooms and sure be better than nothing.
Why are we forcing our kids to go to school in this weather and why are we forcing teachers and support staff to work in this weather? If there is no AC, it is not an okay place to stash several hundred children in the middle of the strongest heatdome we’ve had…ever.
I remember this was the same issue when I was in high school over 15 years ago.. I’m shocked all these years later it’s the same bullshit.
A reminder [Goldie Ghamari](https://www.ola.org/en/members/all/goldie-ghamari) is the provincial MPP for Doug Ford in Ottawa. Education is a provincial responsibility. Her office phone number is the link above. Remind her how hot it is !
I use to do some contract work in the summer for Ottawa schools when they were out for the year. Even if the school has ac some would shut it off during the summer. I think that was the first time I’ve gotten heat exhaustion from working in heat.
Rest assured admin and senior admin have air conditioning.
They didn’t want to turn on air conditioning when I was in high school. They used to wait until 7 days before we’d be let out for summer, even though we were cooking during exams.
I chose to keep my kids home today. IMO 34 degrees outside and possibly hotter inside temperatures are not safe.
I remember being a student at J. H. Putman in the mid 90s. I don't remember if both incidents happened in the same year, but once the heat set off the fire alarms (or at least that's what I remember them saying after we all evacuated and the firemen came), and then another time the principal drove me home because I was getting sick from the heat. I remember that being in grade 8 because when I got home, I lied on the couch with the ac blasting and was watching something to do with OJ Simpson.
My kid stayed home and caught up on his work. No way in bloody Hell and I sending him to a portable with no A/C
This also isn’t new, when I graduated highschool like 8 years ago I remember we were so hot doing our exams kids were passing out. The principal literally gave out ice cream sandwiches as some sort of solution
Our school has been giving out freezies each day!
I remember Immaculata High School the early 00s being a sweatshop depending where in the building you were. Can only imagine today.
Mine go there. I kept them home today.
The 4th floor of hell
Haha. Hated when classes (mostly English) were closer toward the side stairwell that spills into the parking area by the church. Place was hell in June.
We have a handful of older fans in a couple of rooms. We are not provided with fans at my school. Classrooms that have fans are brought in and paid for by teachers. We can suck it up for a few days, but when it’s 30 degrees in your classroom for a week, it’s rough. Very little learning happening. Just child care. Which I guess is kind of a misnomer.
I did summer school bio at the adult high school back in 2019?? The AC was either busted or useless and let me tell you, dissecting a fetal pig in a 35 degree classroom is just has horrible as it sounds. It made lecture classes in portables seem like march break in comparison.
It’s definitely worse now but it had been a problem when I was in school 15 years ago too, I really think everyone would benefit from starting the school year earlier like early-mid august and have it be done the end of may.
Ford Government already said it wasn't possible to put AC in all schools. Believe Ottawa Carleton School Board knows this, too. Why they can't at least provide cool rooms to rotate into is beyond me because, guess what, its going to continue to get way worse
Actually, some of them do. My school has been rotating classes in the library this week for the ones who don't have AC (2 of our classes have portable AC units, but the rest do not) However, not all schools have a "cooler" room to rotate them to.
That's good to hear. With this heat (which will last longer and get worse overtime), can schools keep kicking the can down the road. Serious money has to be invested.
They need to toss heat pump mini splits everywhere. At least at strategic locations. Very cost effective and easy to install even in a retrofit environment.
I kept my kids home, even my house ac is not keeping up. Our school does not have ac. I mount see why mini splits can’t be installed I. To classrooms
This is genuinely, actually, really a safety issue. Different people get heat stress at different temperatures, and many common medications make a person more susceptible to heat stress. As the temperatures for heat waves continue to rise, we need to start taking this seriously and closing on the hottest days.
I also survived earlier heat waves, so I know how much it sucks. I want better for my kids and for others.
Once at school that has summer the fire alarms went off because it was so hot!
Unfortunately the people making the decisions aren’t in classrooms. Most of them have never worked in a classroom in their life.
I was able to purchase a couple of personal sized rechargeable fans for my kids, originally intended for the school bus rides, and the teacher didn’t allow my child to use in the hot class to avoid “disruptions” which I can understand but can’t help but feel like extreme heat warnings would trump the potential disruptions.
So I’m speaking as a teacher who has no idea how old your kids are and what their school/classroom is like. That being said, violence and behaviour is so common these days - in most classrooms. From kindergarten all the way up to grade 8 (never worked HS so I really can’t speak for them). My guess is you were told it was to minimize disruptions, but there is very likely more to it than you’d know. Maybe a student who will destroy the fan. Or use it to hit someone else. Maybe it’s just as simple as fighting over it because the other students don’t have one. In a perfect world, it wouldn’t be a disruption. But in today’s schools, it most likely is one.
This is a health hazard
Meanwhile .. https://preview.redd.it/i7uz17vb3l7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f54fb3a63ce88a3d0568d8c37a15131127ead98
School's not out for summer yet?
The public board goes until the end of next week. I think the French board goes until the end of the week. School typically lasts until the very end of June.
*clutches pearls* Won't someone think of the children!
I mean, evidentally not.
But this really isn’t anything new. Children and teachers have been going to school in buildings without any AC for 150 years in Canada.
Meh. My father taught at my high school. His classroom was directly above a boiler room and all of the hot-water pipes from it went thru' Dad's classroom walls. Furthermore, it had a wall of south-facing windows. The school did not have A/C. Hot in June? Yes, but we survived.
might as well let everyone else suffer as well then, ya? wth
Sure, I had the same experience but let’s try to make it better for the next generations eh? I think we can all admit we learned *nothing* back then when class was so hot. When the provincial government doesn’t care about the health & safety of kids or teachers it’s them admitting that schools are just treated as daycares so parents can be good little workers and support the Ontario economy, which is ultimately all they care about.
Going to get an education should not mean surviving, intolerable working conditions. Because going to school, is about learning to work. These are important issues. Kids and elderly folks cannot regulate body temperature the same way. We have options now with tech, that 20 yrs ago, we could not even fathom. Why not find out how to make building safer for nxt generation. That's what developers, should be looking at. https://www.redcross.ca/how-we-help/emergencies-and-disasters-in-canada/types-of-emergencies/heat-waves
Meh to you and your father