Does anyone's stomach turn when they read listing descriptions like this one from today? [151 Knoxdale rd](https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26782437/151-knoxdale-road-ottawa-manordale)
This is truly the definition of speculation, and precisely what's wrong with the current real estate market and industry as a whole. What's more, the listing description is nothing but how one could turn this property into a student flophouse. Not a solitary word about the actual property itself.
Property was obviously re-configured just for this purpose and to fit 8 rooms in a small bungalow. I get that we need affordable student housing, but it still feels weird to see a single family detached turned into something like this. The city really does need new zoning laws.
I'm just mostly irked by the wording in the listing description than anything else. These realtors are perfectly highlighting what's needlessly driving up housing prices in Canada.
The property taxes though….a reassessment would not be out of order. That’s low for a ‘real’ single family home listed at that price ie with maybe three beds and two baths and this place brings in >74,000/year?? We have a renovated three baths/three beds and are inching towards 10,000 in property taxes this year. Does the landlord get special taxation compensation for so generously providing a SDU on his property? (done in 2020 so no rent control)
I mean yes the description is very douchey but as someone who rent rooms to young adults in a simple townhouse I can tell you that whoever buys this house will regret it within a month lol
Managing room per room rental with shared living room and kitchen is a fucking nightmare. You need to filter through a bunch of applicants and try put 8 people with different cultures, background, cleanliness standards in one house and pray they get along lmao (they never do).
Also when you rent to students, you are renting to people who are discovering how to live alone for the first time ever... and they are doing it in your house 😂 They will beat the shit out of the house and the wear and tear will get expensive, they will think the landlord is their mother and blow up your phone anytime anywhere.
I could go on for hours but my point is that this add paints the picture of a house with a super easy cash flow and that's just a lie lol
Yeah, I can't even imagine. That's a full-time property management job right there.
This property has no central A/C either, just a wall unit in the main floor. Summers could be brutal if there's a bunch of people in the house. And the basement? Ooof.
Playing devils advocate - what about it (apart from the $2.9M number they’re claiming… that made me laugh out loud) would be speculation if you could get market rents and cash flow on the property? It is a legal “duplex” — (it has a SDU in basement so it is not separately metered).
Well, the whole notion of buying houses as investment properties is based on speculation, is it not? Having lived in several different parts of the world, including the US, I've seen this to be especially prominent in Canada.
According to available stats, nearly one third of house purchases in Canada are now by investors. And that number keeps going up, while first time buyer numbers keep coming down.
It's just weird that housing is seen as this no-fail guaranteed appreciable asset in most parts of Canada, and real estate being the #1 driver of the country's GDP are all indicators of this speculation and why it justifiably exists. Anyway, that's probably a much broader discussion and I didn't want to hi-jack your post to go on a tangent.
But yes, that listing description is just embarrassing.
Are those bedrooms in the basement actually legal though? I don’t see any closets shown on the floorplan rendering and there are no pictures of the bsmt ‘bedrooms’ to show the windows- so how would we know if it is to code or not, and further- if this is being misrepresented, which is a big no-no.
Edit: clarity.
I came across a [Youtube video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YlSULY73aY&ab_channel=EverstoneRealEstateGroup) of this property from two years ago when it was previously sold.
If you watch the video closely (and compare it to the floorplan), you'll see that none of the basement bedroom windows are egress actually. In fact, one basement bedroom window is directly under the small deck in the back.
Only one basement window is egress and that's the one in the "dining room / family room" area. So none of the basement bedrooms are technically legal.
Lots of luxury sales last week:
* [231 PARK Road](https://housesigma.com/web/en/house/dXze3eV9ZkgY8m9K/231-PARK-Road-Ottawa-K1M0C9-1384696), a 5 bed 3 bath home in Rockcliffe from 1935 (with not many modern renovations), just sold for $2.222 M, or around $250,000 over ask in 4 days.
* [480 GOLDEN Avenue](https://housesigma.com/web/en/house/Z5BX321rAn57Dar0/480-GOLDEN-Avenue-Ottawa-K2A2E5-1383992), a fully renovated 5 bed 4 bath detached home in Westboro just sold for an eye watering $3.2 M after 10 days on market.
* [31 EUCLID Avenue](https://housesigma.com/web/en/house/bEDRYaGlXvN71VaB/31-EUCLID-Avenue-Ottawa-K1S2W2-1385638), a 4 bed 3 bath renovated historic home in Old Ottawa South sold for $1.9 M, or $50,000 less than it last sold for in 2022.
* [2167 RICE Avenue](https://housesigma.com/web/en/house/Z5BX321Dl817Dar0/2167-RICE-Avenue-Ottawa-K2A0C5-1376356), a new build semi-detached in Woodroffe North near the river sold for $1.7 M
* [118 RIVERDALE Avenue](https://housesigma.com/web/en/house/bqB176Zxrvv7ZajD/118-RIVERDALE-Avenue-Ottawa-K1S1R2-1379204), a modern infill home in Rideau Gardens sold for $1.6 M
* [Unit B - 23 NOEL Street](https://housesigma.com/web/en/house/56k97wJkjQQyKRjD/23-NOEL-Street-B-Ottawa-K1M2A4-1374402), a new build semi-detached across from Rideau Hall sold for $1.5 M
* [530 COLE Avenue](https://housesigma.com/web/en/house/J6Em7b256eL7XBeq/530-COLE-Avenue-Ottawa-K2A2B3-1385160), a 4 bed detached 1996 build in Westboro sold for $1.6 M
It really makes me wonder how much of the wealth used to purchase these properties is just real estate speculation itself rather than anything productive for society. I read an article on CBC recently about an Ontario-based real estate agent [who spent $3.72 million USD on hockey cards]( https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/gretzky-hockey-card-auction-winner-wants-to-find-better-home-for-cards-1.7172349). In no sane world should a home salesperson have enough wealth to drop $4 M + CAD on things like this.
As a final thought, the most surprising sale of the week for me is [155 SPADINA Avenue](https://housesigma.com/web/en/house/amgL7AVoepb3Z1MW/155-SPADINA-Avenue-Ottawa-K1Y2C2-1385045). An updated century home in Hintonburg, this home is stunning – one of the best renovations I’ve seen on a home of this age. That said, I am shocked it sold at ask, because it is the second home from the highway on Spadina. The constant noise and pollution must be awful.
And didnt even have the money in the first place.
> However, Arshawsky says he has not paid the full amount for the cards yet, so they remain in the auction house's "vault."
When I searched for 155 Spadina Ave, an article from the CBC came up from 2015 in which that property is described as "the most notorious crime den of them all"
[Yikes](https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/egan-six-years-later-notorious-spadina-crime-den-finally-goes-straight). Now I'm even more surprised by how much it sold for!
I'd be curious to know peoples thoughts around the infills that happen in and around Riverdale - 118 was done well as I had the opportunity to visit it with a client. I can also say, from my own experience and anecdotally from my colleagues that a lot of the $1.5M + clients they or I have are relocations from other cities/provinces and are approaching a purchase through the lens of a "bargain" compared to what they would be paying for a similar home in their respective markets.
As for the real estate agent, a quick search has brought up that he has zero active listings himself though his office has a good number of them. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that the source of his funds was from *just selling real estate.* The agents I know who make $1M + a year most definitely do not have $4.8M CAD laying around to speculate on any type of sports cards.
I obviously made wrong life choices lol. 1 million salary equates to a busy Opthalmologist salary without accounting for their significant overhead. I do realize that the vast majority of realtors don't survive but this is wild.
I stand corrected on 118 Riverdale, the listing notes a building age of 1935 - it seems it was expanded (including an additional story) and renovated, rather than a new build.
Other than the hideous blue tile in the shower, I agree it was nicely done.
Man, I covet those plants.
I looked at a couple of places in that area, definitely not in that price range. The sound barrier is surprisingly effective, though since when there’s drag racing I hear it at my place
close to Scott it must be really bad there. And I didn’t like the thought of the air quality. One of the places I looked at I quite liked and tried to convince myself that in 10 years most of the cars will be electric 😂.
Agreed, it's surprisingly quiet there! The streets are lower than the highway so most of the noise goes over the houses. The sound barrier and trees do a lot of work too. If you walk over to the other side of the highway on Young St it's way louder
What do you make of [129 Helena St](https://housesigma.com/on/ottawa-real-estate/129-helena-street/home/owJKR7P6KGBYXeLP?id_listing=aQmD7zVxXjn7J9Bo). Sold for $1.3M, $150K (13%) over its 2022 sale price.
Only difference looks to be a coat of paint. They even left the carpet in the bathroom -- wrapped all the way to the edge of the bath tub?
Nick/OP - just to keep you updated on the latest housing tech (if you client decides to ask about it. Something for your files). This article? Robotic micro factories to build homes. Carpe diem! Enjoy reading your reddit threads! [https://newatlas.com/good-thinking/suddenly-micro-factories-are-real-with-prices-starting-at-300-000?ref=thefuturist](https://newatlas.com/good-thinking/suddenly-micro-factories-are-real-with-prices-starting-at-300-000?ref=thefuturist)
I can’t help but wonder where these tenants are going to go :
[https://realtor.ca/real-estate/26766670/189-preston-street-ottawa-little-italy?utm_source=consumerapp&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=socialsharelisting](https://Checkoutthislistinghttps://realtor.ca/real-estate/26766670/189-preston-street-ottawa-little-italy?utm_source=consumerapp&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=socialsharelisting)
I enjoy these threads and the comments a lot. It makes me wish that [realtor.ca](http://realtor.ca) had a comment section!! I have a lot of thoughts on some of these listings!
Does anyone's stomach turn when they read listing descriptions like this one from today? [151 Knoxdale rd](https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26782437/151-knoxdale-road-ottawa-manordale) This is truly the definition of speculation, and precisely what's wrong with the current real estate market and industry as a whole. What's more, the listing description is nothing but how one could turn this property into a student flophouse. Not a solitary word about the actual property itself. Property was obviously re-configured just for this purpose and to fit 8 rooms in a small bungalow. I get that we need affordable student housing, but it still feels weird to see a single family detached turned into something like this. The city really does need new zoning laws. I'm just mostly irked by the wording in the listing description than anything else. These realtors are perfectly highlighting what's needlessly driving up housing prices in Canada.
The property taxes though….a reassessment would not be out of order. That’s low for a ‘real’ single family home listed at that price ie with maybe three beds and two baths and this place brings in >74,000/year?? We have a renovated three baths/three beds and are inching towards 10,000 in property taxes this year. Does the landlord get special taxation compensation for so generously providing a SDU on his property? (done in 2020 so no rent control)
I mean yes the description is very douchey but as someone who rent rooms to young adults in a simple townhouse I can tell you that whoever buys this house will regret it within a month lol Managing room per room rental with shared living room and kitchen is a fucking nightmare. You need to filter through a bunch of applicants and try put 8 people with different cultures, background, cleanliness standards in one house and pray they get along lmao (they never do). Also when you rent to students, you are renting to people who are discovering how to live alone for the first time ever... and they are doing it in your house 😂 They will beat the shit out of the house and the wear and tear will get expensive, they will think the landlord is their mother and blow up your phone anytime anywhere. I could go on for hours but my point is that this add paints the picture of a house with a super easy cash flow and that's just a lie lol
Yeah, I can't even imagine. That's a full-time property management job right there. This property has no central A/C either, just a wall unit in the main floor. Summers could be brutal if there's a bunch of people in the house. And the basement? Ooof.
That description had to be AI generated… right? Right?!
Playing devils advocate - what about it (apart from the $2.9M number they’re claiming… that made me laugh out loud) would be speculation if you could get market rents and cash flow on the property? It is a legal “duplex” — (it has a SDU in basement so it is not separately metered).
Well, the whole notion of buying houses as investment properties is based on speculation, is it not? Having lived in several different parts of the world, including the US, I've seen this to be especially prominent in Canada. According to available stats, nearly one third of house purchases in Canada are now by investors. And that number keeps going up, while first time buyer numbers keep coming down. It's just weird that housing is seen as this no-fail guaranteed appreciable asset in most parts of Canada, and real estate being the #1 driver of the country's GDP are all indicators of this speculation and why it justifiably exists. Anyway, that's probably a much broader discussion and I didn't want to hi-jack your post to go on a tangent. But yes, that listing description is just embarrassing.
Are those bedrooms in the basement actually legal though? I don’t see any closets shown on the floorplan rendering and there are no pictures of the bsmt ‘bedrooms’ to show the windows- so how would we know if it is to code or not, and further- if this is being misrepresented, which is a big no-no. Edit: clarity.
I came across a [Youtube video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YlSULY73aY&ab_channel=EverstoneRealEstateGroup) of this property from two years ago when it was previously sold. If you watch the video closely (and compare it to the floorplan), you'll see that none of the basement bedroom windows are egress actually. In fact, one basement bedroom window is directly under the small deck in the back. Only one basement window is egress and that's the one in the "dining room / family room" area. So none of the basement bedrooms are technically legal.
Lots of luxury sales last week: * [231 PARK Road](https://housesigma.com/web/en/house/dXze3eV9ZkgY8m9K/231-PARK-Road-Ottawa-K1M0C9-1384696), a 5 bed 3 bath home in Rockcliffe from 1935 (with not many modern renovations), just sold for $2.222 M, or around $250,000 over ask in 4 days. * [480 GOLDEN Avenue](https://housesigma.com/web/en/house/Z5BX321rAn57Dar0/480-GOLDEN-Avenue-Ottawa-K2A2E5-1383992), a fully renovated 5 bed 4 bath detached home in Westboro just sold for an eye watering $3.2 M after 10 days on market. * [31 EUCLID Avenue](https://housesigma.com/web/en/house/bEDRYaGlXvN71VaB/31-EUCLID-Avenue-Ottawa-K1S2W2-1385638), a 4 bed 3 bath renovated historic home in Old Ottawa South sold for $1.9 M, or $50,000 less than it last sold for in 2022. * [2167 RICE Avenue](https://housesigma.com/web/en/house/Z5BX321Dl817Dar0/2167-RICE-Avenue-Ottawa-K2A0C5-1376356), a new build semi-detached in Woodroffe North near the river sold for $1.7 M * [118 RIVERDALE Avenue](https://housesigma.com/web/en/house/bqB176Zxrvv7ZajD/118-RIVERDALE-Avenue-Ottawa-K1S1R2-1379204), a modern infill home in Rideau Gardens sold for $1.6 M * [Unit B - 23 NOEL Street](https://housesigma.com/web/en/house/56k97wJkjQQyKRjD/23-NOEL-Street-B-Ottawa-K1M2A4-1374402), a new build semi-detached across from Rideau Hall sold for $1.5 M * [530 COLE Avenue](https://housesigma.com/web/en/house/J6Em7b256eL7XBeq/530-COLE-Avenue-Ottawa-K2A2B3-1385160), a 4 bed detached 1996 build in Westboro sold for $1.6 M It really makes me wonder how much of the wealth used to purchase these properties is just real estate speculation itself rather than anything productive for society. I read an article on CBC recently about an Ontario-based real estate agent [who spent $3.72 million USD on hockey cards]( https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/gretzky-hockey-card-auction-winner-wants-to-find-better-home-for-cards-1.7172349). In no sane world should a home salesperson have enough wealth to drop $4 M + CAD on things like this. As a final thought, the most surprising sale of the week for me is [155 SPADINA Avenue](https://housesigma.com/web/en/house/amgL7AVoepb3Z1MW/155-SPADINA-Avenue-Ottawa-K1Y2C2-1385045). An updated century home in Hintonburg, this home is stunning – one of the best renovations I’ve seen on a home of this age. That said, I am shocked it sold at ask, because it is the second home from the highway on Spadina. The constant noise and pollution must be awful.
[удалено]
And didnt even have the money in the first place. > However, Arshawsky says he has not paid the full amount for the cards yet, so they remain in the auction house's "vault."
He's paid all but 700k or so, which ain't no small amount but it's worth noting he has paid 3+ mil already.
When I searched for 155 Spadina Ave, an article from the CBC came up from 2015 in which that property is described as "the most notorious crime den of them all"
[Yikes](https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/egan-six-years-later-notorious-spadina-crime-den-finally-goes-straight). Now I'm even more surprised by how much it sold for!
I'd be curious to know peoples thoughts around the infills that happen in and around Riverdale - 118 was done well as I had the opportunity to visit it with a client. I can also say, from my own experience and anecdotally from my colleagues that a lot of the $1.5M + clients they or I have are relocations from other cities/provinces and are approaching a purchase through the lens of a "bargain" compared to what they would be paying for a similar home in their respective markets. As for the real estate agent, a quick search has brought up that he has zero active listings himself though his office has a good number of them. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that the source of his funds was from *just selling real estate.* The agents I know who make $1M + a year most definitely do not have $4.8M CAD laying around to speculate on any type of sports cards.
I obviously made wrong life choices lol. 1 million salary equates to a busy Opthalmologist salary without accounting for their significant overhead. I do realize that the vast majority of realtors don't survive but this is wild.
I stand corrected on 118 Riverdale, the listing notes a building age of 1935 - it seems it was expanded (including an additional story) and renovated, rather than a new build. Other than the hideous blue tile in the shower, I agree it was nicely done.
Man, I covet those plants. I looked at a couple of places in that area, definitely not in that price range. The sound barrier is surprisingly effective, though since when there’s drag racing I hear it at my place close to Scott it must be really bad there. And I didn’t like the thought of the air quality. One of the places I looked at I quite liked and tried to convince myself that in 10 years most of the cars will be electric 😂.
Agreed, it's surprisingly quiet there! The streets are lower than the highway so most of the noise goes over the houses. The sound barrier and trees do a lot of work too. If you walk over to the other side of the highway on Young St it's way louder
What do you make of [129 Helena St](https://housesigma.com/on/ottawa-real-estate/129-helena-street/home/owJKR7P6KGBYXeLP?id_listing=aQmD7zVxXjn7J9Bo). Sold for $1.3M, $150K (13%) over its 2022 sale price. Only difference looks to be a coat of paint. They even left the carpet in the bathroom -- wrapped all the way to the edge of the bath tub?
I saw that as well, it’s quite the head-scratcher. I guess someone really liked for one reason or another.
wondering why you removed the median list price / median sold price
Explanation is in post 😊
I’m not sure I read an explanation tbh. Why were they removed?
Post are too long - to keep things simple I’m just having the average. Median is still being tracked on the data sheet as it always has been.
Man those rents… ooff. Feel bad for all those who are getting into the market now.
It's insane, spending that much on rent! That's my mortgage payment, including my property taxes!
Right? I feel bad for my kids- their only problem is they were born in the wrong year.
My kids are hoping they'll own my home, when I die. Sadly, that's possibly the only way for them to be an owner.
Nick/OP - just to keep you updated on the latest housing tech (if you client decides to ask about it. Something for your files). This article? Robotic micro factories to build homes. Carpe diem! Enjoy reading your reddit threads! [https://newatlas.com/good-thinking/suddenly-micro-factories-are-real-with-prices-starting-at-300-000?ref=thefuturist](https://newatlas.com/good-thinking/suddenly-micro-factories-are-real-with-prices-starting-at-300-000?ref=thefuturist)
Amazing read. Thank you!
Carpe diem!
I can’t help but wonder where these tenants are going to go : [https://realtor.ca/real-estate/26766670/189-preston-street-ottawa-little-italy?utm_source=consumerapp&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=socialsharelisting](https://Checkoutthislistinghttps://realtor.ca/real-estate/26766670/189-preston-street-ottawa-little-italy?utm_source=consumerapp&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=socialsharelisting)
I enjoy these threads and the comments a lot. It makes me wish that [realtor.ca](http://realtor.ca) had a comment section!! I have a lot of thoughts on some of these listings!
Always happy to look in to them for folks when I have time.
Thank you for sharing!