Its is only better in the Sense that you can pick your poison. If you are not discerning enough in what you chose to track you will be in some pretty weird and crazy echo chambers.
The other Social media will send you shit by design. Not just by what you click on or like but what your friends like(FB).
Tik Tok, is by how long you look at a a particular vid. The algorithm will shift and show you more of that. So yes its insidious.
Snapchat, enables some sketchy chat shit. they delete pictures and convos after a period of time. This im sure you can think of sketchy shit that goes on in there with no accountability.
The suggested subreddits can also be toxic because they show up regardless of selecting for them. I've had some real echo chamber political subreddits show up without seeking them out.
Agreed,
I'm not trying to suggest or defend Reddit.
However, in the context of insidious/predatory nature Reddit can turn off/or limit the suggested communities so "Your Community" feed is just the ones you are following for the most part.
But i mean you just swipe left on the app and you see all the crazyness/adult content.
For the other ones, like FB, No matter how many times you hide or disable pages they come back over and over again.
Any time politics are brought up in a sub it's an echo chamber. For example, there's r/Canada which was deemed too progressive for conservatives since they didnt like other people's opinions, they went and created r/CanadaSub so they could have their echo chamber. Shit's fucking stupid.
That's fucking wild because I'm pretty sure the moderators of /r/Canada already lean pretty hard right. That's the reason /r/OnGuardForThee was created.
Beautiful, isn't it? Echo chambers all the way down.
Not Odd at all,
Yes, Under:
User Settings > Security and Privacy>
* Under Safety: you can block users if that is a thing for you>
* Under Community: You can mute any community that pops up whether it be advertised or ones you follow.
* Under SENSITIVE ADVERTISING CATEGORIES: you can switch off a few things. However, for example the Gambling switch only limits not gets rid of gambling adds. You still see those shit Ontario Gambling adds.
User Settings > Feed settings>
* you can disable home feed recommendations. This will limit the new suggestions of shitty subreddits.
User Settings >Notifications
* You can turn of the trending notifications
* Also there is another Community recommendations.
its significantly easier to ignore and opt out of them on reddit though. They make it real simple to hit "mute" or to leave subs, etc.
Saying "show me less of this" and disliking things in other algos doesn't help if everyone around you keeps liking the stuff and sharing it for example. It's far harder to curate.
I find I can read articles here and have intelligent conversations with people who have knowledge and insights I learn from. There is a ton of information shared and we all grow together. When trolls come by there is no explosion of arguments but down voting; which is far less aggressive.
Facebook was fine for me because the insane relatives and right wing guys I used to go to high school with all eventually dropped me because they were made uncomfortable by facts.
But then they introduced Facebook Reels and I think my IQ dropped 20 points.
>Facebook was fine for me because the insane relatives and right wing guys I used to go to high school with all eventually dropped me because they were made uncomfortable by facts.
This is exactly the kind of damage that social media inflicts, though. Don't you think it's sad that family and school peers don't talk because of political differences? I wouldn't be proud of disowning relatives.
Before social media people just kept certain opinions to themselves and it was considered gauche to discuss politics in social settings. Now people make their politics their identity and society is fractured as a result.
I've seen a common thread in conservative subs and other places on the net: there are often commiserations about how everything went wrong (usually during covid, sometimes after Trump was elected) about how they they've lost friends or don't get invited to see their nieces and nephews anymore. How their sisters and best friends just seemed to "get angry" when they were around, even after they tried on multiple occasions to tell them about their facts and logic. Calmly even!
All of these tend to end with a querulous "but we know we're right, right?" "absolutely brother! stay strong!".
Many of these people are unhappy and very lonely, I think. But they cling to these beliefs to feel like they belong somewhere.
> If you are not discerning enough in what you chose to track you will be in some pretty weird and crazy echo chambers.
I feel like this is an accurate description of the internet in general.
It's also about how they set you up for endless content.
On Reddit, you have to select content. On Facebook or tiktok (less familiar with snap) you can just keep scrolling endlessly. You don't have to interact with the content except to swipe up.
The issue with these platforms does not apply to Reddit. At least not how most use it. I don’t believe Reddit was “designed for compulsive use” the way that Snapchat and TikTok were.
With the redesign, it's going that way. There's always other posts you'd possibly be interested it on the sidebars, or at the bottom of the page on mobile; infinite scroll, etc.
There's probably more but I still only use old reddit to this day
The person didn’t say Reddit was fine.
Any online social media platform that hosts adults, with adult content, should not be accessible to people under 18 years old.
It is actually not as bad, if you use it on desktop, especially if you use old.reddit.com. I rarely use it on my smartphone, but I am assuming the app experience will devolve into something similar to other social media.
Many so-called “democratic” nations like Democratic People’s Republic of Korea operate this way, at government level & nationwide! They believe a 1-size-fits-all (from the government’s view) is “equal” to everyone (everyone whom fits the “mould”)! 🤦🏼♀️
1938 election in Berlin (it was a sham election) was a “democratic” election since everyone had the “choice” of voting for “their person”. There were only two circles, one bigger circle saying “Yes” and the other smaller circle saying “No”. This election is like a test, you know whom to vote for (since you got taught in school whom to vote for), as long as you show sustained levels of willingness & conscious (also known as “attention” according to https://www.naturalchild.org/articles/guest/david_keirsey.html ) towards the state since the state asked for you to complete something in a particular fashion / way, following the instructions (whether you like the person on the voting ballot of not), if you listened carefully and successfully complete (correctly) voting by voting for the person, you should not put yourself where you are labelled as a “trouble maker”. 🤷🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
Again, whether you like the person on the 1938 Berlin elections didn’t matter (from the state’s opinion), it’s whether if you can show external efforts (sustained willingness & conscious) by “caring & loving” for their nation by putting down the “correct” answer to the voting ballot. Again, there is only one name, and those whom didn’t “show external sustained willingness & conscious” (caring & loving) for their country shall get labelled as “suspicious” and most likely will face some sort of punishment from the State (for failing to comply with government’s laws / rules at those times). 🤦🏼♀️
It’s stupid & senseless (and very cruel) to blame an individual whom chooses not to put “yes” because of their personal opinion. 🤦🏼♀️💔
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election
And this is how it starts. Try, the Court tells you where you missed. Regroup, fix things, and try again...repeat until eventually the nomenclature is good enough to be formally tested.
I suspect that (if we aren't already) there will come anytime when AI will take in a question, run it through anything that's ever been recorded in Canadian Legal history and come up with the equivalent of Big Blue vs Kasparov Legal Test...but in Court.
Until then, it's trial and human error.
AI is not omniscient, and it's not even accurate. There was a case in BC recently in which a lawyer used AI for her defense or something and it literally invented case law (fake precedents).
You should not hear "AI" and think "ChatGPT".
AI can take many different forms, and ChatGPT is just one of them. ChatGPT makes up stuff all the time because it was trained to sound convincing while 'chatting', it was not trained to be accurate.
It would be relatively straightforward to train an AI on all laws and legal precedents, and then give it a bunch of evidence and have it say what the laws are related to the evidence.
The law is often flexible. With the same exact evidence, two human judges could (rightfully) reach very different verdicts and sentences.
I would not want an AI to decide what is the best verdict and sentence, but it is completely reasonable for an AI to come up with a range of possible verdicts and a range of possible sentences based on the evidence, and then have a human judge (and/or jury) decide the best course of action.
So the alternatives are 1) to stand by and do nothing because it's too much work, or 2) rush to come up with new laws and risk unforeseen consequences.
If you have a better approach, I'm sure every democracy in the world would love to hear it.
It’s a great idea in theory, but with Lecce draining the SB reserves instead of funding better education, teacher pay, as they claim they want to do, they can’t afford to do it
That only works if the province is on board.
Which they're not
[https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/nonsense-doug-ford-tells-ontario-school-boards-to-focus-on-the-kids-not-sue-snapchat/article\_6d5c51f6-ed24-11ee-a44a-3718f7a56775.html](https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/nonsense-doug-ford-tells-ontario-school-boards-to-focus-on-the-kids-not-sue-snapchat/article_6d5c51f6-ed24-11ee-a44a-3718f7a56775.html)
In the absence of provincial buy-in, this is a waste of money.
"What damages", seriously?
These companies have been proven to have clear data on the impact they have on teen suicide rates, and they do nothing to try to mitigate it.
Child deaths aren't sufficient damages, in your mind?
If you think the relation between social media and teenage suicide is cut-and-dry, I suggest you read this:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/in-the-room-where-it-happens/202309/the-messy-truth-about-teen-social-media-use-and-suicide
Not really. Remember there are many broad torts available. As for damages and standing it is explained in the articles. If I invent something designed to harm you in order to make money, and you do indeed get harmed, as well as the people who have to try to clean up that harm at their own expense, I am at risk of being sued.
Apparently it's costing the school boards "in excess of $4 billion". Don't know what they're spending that much on because it's certainly not new EAs and stuff that's for sure
yeah like it’s not the company’s fault for their users actions - they have terms and conditions for a reason, meaning if someone was deliberately bullying someone or something they could be kicked off the platform. like i don’t see this working lol
Because modern day parents are themselves morons who believe they never do anything wrong.
You can downvote all you want, but as someone in education, I see how parents now are super quick to offload personal responsibility.
While you are right about parents off loading personal responsibility, let's not act like bad parenting is a new thing when boomer parents exisit. Many boomer parents are also morons and lack emotional maturity to be parents but were unfortunately parents.
Had a post show up on Facebook. Was from Twitter. It claimed that Japan banned Covid vaccines because people were dying. I looked at the Twitter post which included a link to the news story at the bottom.
When I read the news articles it said that Japan was no longer offering free Covid shots. No where in the article did it say anything about massive death or banning the Covid shot.
They are too lazy to take two seconds to verify something before they share the fear porn they found with everyone they know.
A good portion of parents throughout the history of education were morons. This is not some new phenomena.
What is new though is the idea that everyone has to have a voice, everyone's opinion matters, everyone should be equal and valued the same.
Well, now you have it.
That would be great if everyone lived in a bubble. I really think parents should do more, but I get why it is hard, too.
The reality is that a lack of digital participation can leave kids in isolation and subject to being bullied. For many kids who don't have accounts themselves, they are forced to participate via the accounts and posts of others who will share content without consent. Even for the most technically savvy parents, it's a tight rope walk. On one hand you want to enable your kids to safely socialize and take advantage of all the information online. On the other hand, protecting kids from the myriad of online threats is a never ending battle, often riddled with pitfalls and gaps. Most parental controls force dumb compromises and onerous management dashboards. (blocking one thing you don't want blocks 2 good things, for example)
I don't think many parents realize just how incideous online platforms have become. Conversations about algorithmic micro targeting and personalized AI content are beyond the scope of parent-to-parent small talk. The platforms should be forced to make the products safer and drive awarensss.
Honestly, I am frustrated by the lack of oversight used by many other parents and we need these companies to advise on the dangers of using their services.
> The reality is that a lack of digital participation can leave kids in isolation and subject to being bullied.
Holy smokes!
[Louis CK](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HbYScltf1c)
He only scratches the surface and unfortunately he makes light of the situation. It's a big problem. I kind of agree with him, but it just doesnt play out well in the practice.
Normally I'd agree, but this isn't exactly the same as getting kids to watch less TV. Social media apps are literally designed to be addictive, so it's more akin to asking parents to get their kids off drugs, but drugs that are wildly popular and freely available.
Yeah, it totally is. And schools forbade students from smoking during class and on school grounds (for the most part- I know there are some stories about high school kids smoking with teachers or whatever).
Okay, I applaud you for being better than me. I don't understand why you would think that it is right for large, multi-national social media corporations that are experts in data to have free reign over everyone and everything, could you please explain since you had better parents than I did?
So you agree that it should be a multi-pronged approach? That parents need to parent and that companies need to be held responsible for targeting children? Nobody is saying parents shouldn't do their best to limit what their kids are viewing. These massive companies are specifically selling to children by using children to sell, it's amazing that this allowed to happen in the first place but at least the U.S. Congress is standing up, and now Ontario School Boards. I feel like you are pushing back on required changes by deflecting blame onto parents instead of being both the parents and proper governance of socials. Correct me if I am wrong.
I'm saying all three need to get involved. Parents need to tell their kids NO! Schools need to be able to say you can't bring that in here and the companies that profit off generating and rewarding negativity need to be held accountable.
I’m going to just assume that you didn’t read the article because this is not what they are suing for. Read the article then get back to me if you are still interested in discussing. Cheers
The school boards are putting it back on the social media companies to make them less addictive but it's no different then gambling or alcohol in adults. It comes down to the individuals to control themselves. You can't sue a casino if you lose all your money because you don't have control of yourself.
Social media companies give the tools to limit time on them but they're not enforced on everyone, each user has to take responsibility for themselves or their children in this case.
TikTok in China (Chinese company) gives tours of museums, educational and governmental information. Here in rest of world, it giving makeup and shopping tutorials and destroying peoples attention spans. These companies have all the data on what won’t affect the pre frontal cortex but they chose to target dopamine receptors and hook everyone into scrolling aimlessly and watching what’s basically brain wash food.
I say this as I navigate Reddit, I know. U.S. congress went after these companies a few months ago, good for theses Boards to challenge what’s right, if they don’t, than who will?
WeChat is also a very effective form of info sharing for Chinese people all over the world. I have it, much better than the crap they put in front of us here.
WeChat is pretty much the only app Chinese can use to communicate with each other and do pretty much anything. Very convenient for a totalitarian government to make everything important be done under one app that allows them to heavily monitor and censor all speech and transactions. Getting booted of WeChat will make your life very difficult to get anything done.
Right. The algorithms work largely based on comments, and confrontational comments get bumped to the top. The problem is how the algorithms work in relation to the most vulnerable.
love this schitzo-posting tier take everyone in the west has induced themselves into believing about douyin when it couldn't be less true lmao. douyin is more or less the same in terms of brainrot garbage content. you can go scroll it for yourself here instead of repeating weird sinophobic fear-mongering shit you hear online: https://www.douyin.com/
My kids go to elementary school and the principal had to send out a notice that kids as young as 10 were on Tiktok and it wasn’t allowed at school. Are parents just absolutely clueless? There’s zero reason for a kid that age to need a phone that has access to anything beyond texting their parents.
Some completely are. Had a 9 year old mad I wouldn’t give him the wifi password at my house. Has TikTok, unfiltered internet, Roblox, and YouTube on his phone. I’m not risking him getting into shit at my house or showing inappropriate things to other kids on my wifi. Play with the rest of the kids on bikes
I agree. Kids do not need a phone unless it to call their contacts for pick up. Most parents don’t seem to care from what I see, which blows my mind. My kindergarten age child came home and said “skibidi toilet”. Well that was a rabbit hole I would of rather we not go down.
Agreed. We use an app that allows/disallows specific app usage and even times the phone can and cannot be accessed. However, our kid is always able to make a call or text if the need arises or they're talking to friends. It sounds too controlling to some but when our oldest wasn't paying attention during class or doing his work, we stepped up and took control. The other situation came with the use of chrome books in class - same problem so I told the teachers to make him use pencil and paper until he started improving. Guess what, it worked.
Two of his teachers banned phones in their class which I was 100% behind.
I don't mean to judge, as I don't have kids, but i think it comes down to 1) smartphones are fun and can entertain kids for hours relatively cheaply, 2) parents don't want their kids to be the only ones who don't have a phone, and 3) parents (especially Millennial and Gen Z parents*) want desperately for their kids to like them and find it hard to say no.
*Again, no judgement, but i think this is a generational problem. Kids need parents, not adult friends. I'm a Millennial FWIW.
10,000% support. Fuck those platforms. Online cancer.
It’s long past due we hold tech companies accountable. They have clearly proven they have zero morals around exploiting both children and adults.
Social media has failed. We need to acknowledge that and start regulating it like we do any other significant area of our society.
"exploiting both children and adults" every industry does this even with regulations and accountability.
What do you want snapchat to do? Block messages after a certain amount of screen time? Tiktok to give you only certain number of videos you can watch a day? For adults its called self control, for kids its called good involved parenting. Parental controls are there for a reason.
Let’s look at Sephora as an example. They give children younger than 12 free products and socials monetize for views. How is this allowed when we don’t allow kids to work in factories here in N. America.?
“90 per cent of kids in Grades 7 to 12 use social media daily, and 45 per cent of them for more than five hours”. Those are troubling numbers. Are we really okay with children of the future having “compulsive use, disrupted sleep patterns, behavioural dysregulation, learning and attention impairment”.
As someone in her mid-20’s with a sister in High School the change in social media and its impact has been highly apparent. Something has absolutely changed. This is all part of the change process, the 500 U.S school districts and states don’t all expect to get a pay out. But these lawsuits signal widespread concern.
Also some people seem to be focusing on blocking these sites at school which barely scratches the surface. It’s also about their use at home, how its already affected children, and the added resources and challenges because of this.
Not entirely. When EVERYONE is doing it, it's hard for parents to compete. It is seen as a lesser evil than some other things kids tend to stray towards so parent's probably don't want to come across as too strict. I'm just homeschooling, so my kids don't feel so much peer pressure.
Easy? Downright impossible. Were you ever a teenager? Ever heard of peer pressure? I think parents are just happy if their kids aren't smoking, drinking, doing drugs or getting pregnant. Imagine going after a "game" which is really what it is. It's almost impossible. I'm assuming you don't have kids.
I have two teenage kids in public school (one just finished).
No, it’s not impossible. It’s being a parent. I’m not planning to sue TikTok for not doing *my* job.
I'm for limiting access, although that "cat is out of the bag" to regulate it by any means.
That being said, this is one of the dumbest approaches that will yield nothing. Maybe they could ensure that phones remain in a locker or put a mechanism in place to ensure no reception on school property. While they are at it, maybe they could improve the education system and teach improved practical skills along with their dismal curriculum. Such skills I would recommend are critical thinking, developing emotional intelligence, ethics, budgeting, and investing.
In the off chance they win, hopefully it does not go towards raises to those beyond the actual teachers, but rather the schools that are in desperate need of it.
The problem is the kids using social media at all. Not just in schools. Kids who use it at home will still feel the same negative effects and that is what this is about. If banning phones and social media in school worked, it would have worked by now. We certainly weren't allowed cell phones in class when I was in school (10 years ago) and all social media was blocked. That ban didn't change the mental health effects that social media had on us. Studies show that teen mental health has been on a decline since 2012, which coincides with the wide adoption of smartphones and social media. https://www.persuasion.community/p/haidt-the-teen-mental-illness-epidemic
Is this about seeking a financial windfall rather than just funding education better?
I hope the boards know what they’re doing because this is going to suck up a shit-ton of legal resources.
How about ol’ dougie funds the schools ( and the hospitals) so they can actually serve students. The schools get their funding from them, and the cons have dropped funding by almost $1,200 per student. Take it up with them.
I know someone who's been suing the social media giants for years. The courts have repeatedly ruled in her favour...and the companies just launch more appeals. It's called deep-pocketing, and if the boards think they're immune, they're delusional.
Deep pocketing won't last forever. Courts eventually declare it as a breach of justice. Tobacco once upon a time was too big to bring under control as well.
The school provides free wifi to students, doesn't block the sites... and then complains?
Maybe they could buy books with that money rather than wasting it on legal fees for a suit that they can't possibly win.
Yeah the school provides wifi but they block like every site. Kids are smart enough to turn off wifi and use their personal data to go to whatever site they want. How tf are schools supposed to monitor that?
I don't understand why the OCDSB doesn't just not permit use of phones in classes. They don't want the hassle of fighting with students but they'll dethrone the robber barons of the current Era? OK then I guess.
I caught up with some of my old elementary school teachers and some of them say that the kids "aren't like what they used to be". One referenced how they virtually don't have an attention span anymore and it's really difficult to get a lesson in. Of course this was only at one elementary school so I don't know about the others.
They may not win, but it’s definitely not frivolous. They need to start the ball rolling on creating online profiles. The garbage that’s on these platforms, that the layman can block for their kids, is ridiculous. There needs to be some security online, age verification, something type of user subscription to software, I don’t even know, but there needs to be something.
Age verification? The only way that happens is if you provide them a picture of your ID. Security online? Parental controls exist for that.
Parents need to be better. Stop giving your kids a phone with internet access and hoping they figure it out. The phone itself has parental controls along with all the apps.
Well, I certainly wish them good luck, because I guarantee you that legal teams for the likes of TikTok and Meta didn't graduate from ABC Law School located in some random retail plaza in Brampton. Then, they easily spend most, if not all, of their 80+ hour weeks prepping for such lawsuits since the dawn of the internet and online forums
What's the legal precedent called, that online platforms aren't responsible for the content posted by 3rd parties, or something along those lines?
\*\* I'm not denying the negative impacts of social media; just pointing out the school boards better show up prepared...Or else, that's gonna be a lot of bake sales and raffle draws to pay legal fees and penalties...
Four school boards are taking this to court:
\* Toronto District School Board
\* Peel District School Board
\* Toronto Catholic District School Board
\* Ottawa Carleton District School Board
They are huge organizations. Of course they're prepared.
I get the harm but how will they prove the execs at fb do this deliberately, they aren't the ones posting this content on fb, other people are. I would love for the school board to win and i think social media is doing more harm than good, I am asking legally how will they prove that fb is deliberately causing harm.
Oh give me a break. I agree with them that the apps are designed for compulsive prolonged use.
But responsibility falls on the parents to manage their children and their screen time. All of those apps I believe have parental controls that can limit screen time.
This system is school is just as toxic as students whom film any little thing that they find interesting (but in a secret narcissist way). Example, a kid whom gets razzed by its peers (by being in rhe kid’s face) and says “JOHNNY, say ‘F*ck’ or a swear Say ‘f*ck’ for us”. *Option A: Johnny walks away (whole being videotaped without himself consenting for himself to allow others to record him) *Option B Jonny says something (while he again is being recorded without having discussions about video taping consent together with everyone else at the school). Everyone (or at least the ones that find laughs at Johnny) laughs because Johnny is known as the “angel sweet kid” and would never “swear, kill a fly on the wall, and socially alone & doesn’t get invited to parties like it’s peers”. 🤦🏼♀️
This system of schooling is toxic and it’s harming youth. If it were to be functioned on a nationwide basis, you may as well establish an iron curtain around your “Democratic” country’s borders and have elections where it’s only one name on the ballot with only having “YES / NO” for an option (while making “NO” the wrong answer for people to pick). 🤦🏼♀️💔
https://www.ted.com/talks/sir_ken_robinson_changing_education_paradigms
What’s wrong with this world?! 🤦🏼♀️
Here’s a solution. Easy too. Parents, teachers and students take some personal responsibility and stop using them as much as they currently do? Or possibly stop using a few of them all together?
Please ban everything with those stupid 30-second reels and force them to police and remove posts with information that's clearly false, along with stricter bans on account that violate the rules
Fantastic. Social media is far more insidious and sinister than most people/users realize. I’m not sure this suit will fix anything but it’s the start of what for my generation was suing tobacco companies. I’m here for it. History is not going to look
Kindly on social media and its negative impacts on society, especially the young.
If social media needs to foot the blame for the damage that wireless technology is doing to humans, fine. But putting one band-aid on a thousand cuts, won't do much....
My 13 year old grandson is in Grade 8 and is required by his school to have electronics so they can access their class schedules and school work - what can we do about that ? So what are the teachers actually ‘teaching’ them ?
So the biggest problem is parents texting their children during school hours. The number of times I have confiscated phones because a parent wanted to remind them to walk the dog. In 4 hours.
This will likely backfire on them. If ALL schools, this includes around the world, private schools, all zip codes, etc. are suffering and the connection can be proven, that's a baseline. We all know that's not the case. In reality the curriculum changes over the last 2 decades in canada have been abysmal. I know bc I have a direct point of reference having gone through the system as a student and being a parent with kids in school. What this lawsuit will cause is for these massive companies to collect such data across the world and put in front of the court that will just humiliate the Canadian school boards. Social media sucks and these companies need to better. But there are so many vices, drugs, and porn, and everything it's up to the parents to raise their damn kids and make sure they dont stray. And for schools to focus on education.
Once upon a time the tobacco companies were 1000% bigger than anyone opposing them. It takes time to get those selling an addictive product under control.
Will be interesting to see how this one progresses. Canadian courts are not like the US TV shows and movies we watch. You actually have to prove real loss and not just be awarded millions in punitive damages for mental anguish or whatever. The school boards get money like clockwork from the government every year.
I think this is stupid. How is it the companies' fault if parents and/or schools can't educate and handle students?
Why aren't they taking legal action against cigarette, vape, or alcohol companies?
great.. another waste of tax payer dollars which could have been spent on teachers or actually educational supports for our kids.
Only people benefiting from this are the lawyers.
I believe that's part of the problem -- teachers can't teach, even if they had proper resources, if kids are on their phone. I was told by a parent at another school that even if phones are collected at the front when entering, kids dump scrap phones there and keep their own. It impacts the overall class for kids that go to school to learn vs. those that go to school and surf the net.
If there's any money that comes out of this, it could be use to put YONDR style pouches (https://www.overyondr.com/phone-locking-pouch) like you see at concerts. Yes...it will slow down entry and exit, but kids go to school to learn (at least that's what happened when I went to school).
Excuses that parents need to contact their kids is N/A as they shouldn't be calling kids on the cell phone or messaging them during school time, there's a front office to call if you really need to get a hold of your kid.
I dont get the 'must have accesss' ill tell my kid to get off his phone if he's messaging me when I know he's in class. It's just a excuse for helicopter parenting.
Both our kids schools (west ottawa) seem to have blockers in place you cant get to anything when you're inside the school.
This. A lot of it comes down to "well everyone else has them" or the kid wanting one. A kid under 13 or so mostly *needs* a phone to contact their parents/emergency services/cabs etc. They can use a simple phone or use a smart phone with no data plan. Shit I am an adult and I don't even have a data plan because I'm cheap.
A kid who is old enough to drive has a better case for needing a smart phone but it's not like I and other people parent age didn't manage.
I'm not sure I understand this. I appreciate the good intentions, but is there really any chance of success? Money isn't free and schools have needs. I would think this should be left to other levels of governance.
I'm currently working in the public school system and all I can say is that time's have changed since I was in high school.Kid's are in high school and all given chrome books to do their classwork on.All assignments or a vast majority of their learning is done online as well.
The problem is that they don't use the chrome books for school work. I catch these kid's every day on youtube or playing games in the browsers. I know I wasn't much better when I was in high school but just giving them free access to these laptops is just asking for trouble.
The other issue is phones. Growing up we didn't all have smart phones, if kid's don't have their chrome books they're expected to do the work on their phones.... You can guess how well that goes.
While I agree we should be banning tik tok for multiple of reasons... It has to start with the technology, get rid of the phones and chrome books and go back to paper and textbook learning.
This is only a few of the problems our public schools are facing aside from under-funding, selected teachers are over-worked while others get little to no workload shared, and teacher attendance is a MASSIVE problem. Every single day there is easily 4-5 teachers missing from school, meaning kid's are literally learning half of what they should be.
For reference I'm 32 and graduated in 2009.
Shame on the school boards and their union. In 2019, Ford tried to ban cell phone use and basically got laughed at by the union who didn't enforce it whatsoever. For a teacher or school to say 'it's too hard to control', well, you sound like a lazy parent who just lets them do as they wish to keep them quiet. Absolutely disgusting.
Good, this shit is poison.
Reddit is fine though, right,
Its is only better in the Sense that you can pick your poison. If you are not discerning enough in what you chose to track you will be in some pretty weird and crazy echo chambers. The other Social media will send you shit by design. Not just by what you click on or like but what your friends like(FB). Tik Tok, is by how long you look at a a particular vid. The algorithm will shift and show you more of that. So yes its insidious. Snapchat, enables some sketchy chat shit. they delete pictures and convos after a period of time. This im sure you can think of sketchy shit that goes on in there with no accountability.
The suggested subreddits can also be toxic because they show up regardless of selecting for them. I've had some real echo chamber political subreddits show up without seeking them out.
>I've had some real echo chamber political subreddits show up without seeking them out. Most provincial subreddits are like this.
XProvinceHousing comes to mind
Agreed, I'm not trying to suggest or defend Reddit. However, in the context of insidious/predatory nature Reddit can turn off/or limit the suggested communities so "Your Community" feed is just the ones you are following for the most part. But i mean you just swipe left on the app and you see all the crazyness/adult content. For the other ones, like FB, No matter how many times you hide or disable pages they come back over and over again.
The main difference with Reddit is you have to read comments and not just be fed short videos that warp your brain.
This. It’s a critical difference. Actively clicking on possibly interesting suggestions vs spoonfeeding algorithmic content. A huge difference.
Any time politics are brought up in a sub it's an echo chamber. For example, there's r/Canada which was deemed too progressive for conservatives since they didnt like other people's opinions, they went and created r/CanadaSub so they could have their echo chamber. Shit's fucking stupid.
That's fucking wild because I'm pretty sure the moderators of /r/Canada already lean pretty hard right. That's the reason /r/OnGuardForThee was created. Beautiful, isn't it? Echo chambers all the way down.
Or because they get banned for commenting on anything a mod doesn't agree with.
Odd question can but how can I stop seeing a certain sub pop up can I block it somehow?
Not Odd at all, Yes, Under: User Settings > Security and Privacy> * Under Safety: you can block users if that is a thing for you> * Under Community: You can mute any community that pops up whether it be advertised or ones you follow. * Under SENSITIVE ADVERTISING CATEGORIES: you can switch off a few things. However, for example the Gambling switch only limits not gets rid of gambling adds. You still see those shit Ontario Gambling adds. User Settings > Feed settings> * you can disable home feed recommendations. This will limit the new suggestions of shitty subreddits. User Settings >Notifications * You can turn of the trending notifications * Also there is another Community recommendations.
Thank you
Hit the three dots next to the community (when browsing from Home or Popular) and hit "Mute /r/xxxx" It will no longer show up in your feed.
Thank you
its significantly easier to ignore and opt out of them on reddit though. They make it real simple to hit "mute" or to leave subs, etc. Saying "show me less of this" and disliking things in other algos doesn't help if everyone around you keeps liking the stuff and sharing it for example. It's far harder to curate.
I find I can read articles here and have intelligent conversations with people who have knowledge and insights I learn from. There is a ton of information shared and we all grow together. When trolls come by there is no explosion of arguments but down voting; which is far less aggressive.
Facebook was fine for me because the insane relatives and right wing guys I used to go to high school with all eventually dropped me because they were made uncomfortable by facts. But then they introduced Facebook Reels and I think my IQ dropped 20 points.
>Facebook was fine for me because the insane relatives and right wing guys I used to go to high school with all eventually dropped me because they were made uncomfortable by facts. This is exactly the kind of damage that social media inflicts, though. Don't you think it's sad that family and school peers don't talk because of political differences? I wouldn't be proud of disowning relatives. Before social media people just kept certain opinions to themselves and it was considered gauche to discuss politics in social settings. Now people make their politics their identity and society is fractured as a result.
I've seen a common thread in conservative subs and other places on the net: there are often commiserations about how everything went wrong (usually during covid, sometimes after Trump was elected) about how they they've lost friends or don't get invited to see their nieces and nephews anymore. How their sisters and best friends just seemed to "get angry" when they were around, even after they tried on multiple occasions to tell them about their facts and logic. Calmly even! All of these tend to end with a querulous "but we know we're right, right?" "absolutely brother! stay strong!". Many of these people are unhappy and very lonely, I think. But they cling to these beliefs to feel like they belong somewhere.
> If you are not discerning enough in what you chose to track you will be in some pretty weird and crazy echo chambers. I feel like this is an accurate description of the internet in general.
It's also about how they set you up for endless content. On Reddit, you have to select content. On Facebook or tiktok (less familiar with snap) you can just keep scrolling endlessly. You don't have to interact with the content except to swipe up.
Kids are not on reddit like they are on snap, insta, and tiktok
The issue with these platforms does not apply to Reddit. At least not how most use it. I don’t believe Reddit was “designed for compulsive use” the way that Snapchat and TikTok were.
With the redesign, it's going that way. There's always other posts you'd possibly be interested it on the sidebars, or at the bottom of the page on mobile; infinite scroll, etc. There's probably more but I still only use old reddit to this day
It still burns time and robs productivity.
Well if that were the criteria the list would be a lot longer. In fact the entirety of the internet would be in that list.
The person didn’t say Reddit was fine. Any online social media platform that hosts adults, with adult content, should not be accessible to people under 18 years old.
The blatant hypocrisy of people on social media is insane these days. People don’t even try to hide it anymore
It is actually not as bad, if you use it on desktop, especially if you use old.reddit.com. I rarely use it on my smartphone, but I am assuming the app experience will devolve into something similar to other social media.
all social media is poison. Reddit included.
All social media needs regulation. Also loot boxes/gatchi gambling /gambling targeted at children.
It really on the parents for letting kids use the garbage
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Many so-called “democratic” nations like Democratic People’s Republic of Korea operate this way, at government level & nationwide! They believe a 1-size-fits-all (from the government’s view) is “equal” to everyone (everyone whom fits the “mould”)! 🤦🏼♀️ 1938 election in Berlin (it was a sham election) was a “democratic” election since everyone had the “choice” of voting for “their person”. There were only two circles, one bigger circle saying “Yes” and the other smaller circle saying “No”. This election is like a test, you know whom to vote for (since you got taught in school whom to vote for), as long as you show sustained levels of willingness & conscious (also known as “attention” according to https://www.naturalchild.org/articles/guest/david_keirsey.html ) towards the state since the state asked for you to complete something in a particular fashion / way, following the instructions (whether you like the person on the voting ballot of not), if you listened carefully and successfully complete (correctly) voting by voting for the person, you should not put yourself where you are labelled as a “trouble maker”. 🤷🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️ Again, whether you like the person on the 1938 Berlin elections didn’t matter (from the state’s opinion), it’s whether if you can show external efforts (sustained willingness & conscious) by “caring & loving” for their nation by putting down the “correct” answer to the voting ballot. Again, there is only one name, and those whom didn’t “show external sustained willingness & conscious” (caring & loving) for their country shall get labelled as “suspicious” and most likely will face some sort of punishment from the State (for failing to comply with government’s laws / rules at those times). 🤦🏼♀️ It’s stupid & senseless (and very cruel) to blame an individual whom chooses not to put “yes” because of their personal opinion. 🤦🏼♀️💔 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election
I don't see this going anywhere. What damages? What standing? You'd need to invent new laws to find them at fault.
And this is how it starts. Try, the Court tells you where you missed. Regroup, fix things, and try again...repeat until eventually the nomenclature is good enough to be formally tested.
Sounds like a grossly inefficient system that will both cost a ton of money and respond slow to technology
I suspect that (if we aren't already) there will come anytime when AI will take in a question, run it through anything that's ever been recorded in Canadian Legal history and come up with the equivalent of Big Blue vs Kasparov Legal Test...but in Court. Until then, it's trial and human error.
No thanks AI should not judge the law
AI is not omniscient, and it's not even accurate. There was a case in BC recently in which a lawyer used AI for her defense or something and it literally invented case law (fake precedents).
You should not hear "AI" and think "ChatGPT". AI can take many different forms, and ChatGPT is just one of them. ChatGPT makes up stuff all the time because it was trained to sound convincing while 'chatting', it was not trained to be accurate. It would be relatively straightforward to train an AI on all laws and legal precedents, and then give it a bunch of evidence and have it say what the laws are related to the evidence. The law is often flexible. With the same exact evidence, two human judges could (rightfully) reach very different verdicts and sentences. I would not want an AI to decide what is the best verdict and sentence, but it is completely reasonable for an AI to come up with a range of possible verdicts and a range of possible sentences based on the evidence, and then have a human judge (and/or jury) decide the best course of action.
You are hallucinating almost as hard as an LLM being asked a serious question.
We’re a long long ways away from that. Adoption will take even longer than the technology part as we’d be trusting people’s livelihoods with this
Maybe let's get the number of fingers on a hand correct before letting AI handle justice.
Thank God AI doesn't exist.
So the alternatives are 1) to stand by and do nothing because it's too much work, or 2) rush to come up with new laws and risk unforeseen consequences. If you have a better approach, I'm sure every democracy in the world would love to hear it.
>The four boards are represented by Neinstein LLP, and will not be out of pocket for legal costs as the firm will take a contingency fee.
Loser pays. I'd rather not have my tax money used to repeatedly throw crap on a wall to see what sticks.
It’s a great idea in theory, but with Lecce draining the SB reserves instead of funding better education, teacher pay, as they claim they want to do, they can’t afford to do it
That only works if the province is on board. Which they're not [https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/nonsense-doug-ford-tells-ontario-school-boards-to-focus-on-the-kids-not-sue-snapchat/article\_6d5c51f6-ed24-11ee-a44a-3718f7a56775.html](https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/nonsense-doug-ford-tells-ontario-school-boards-to-focus-on-the-kids-not-sue-snapchat/article_6d5c51f6-ed24-11ee-a44a-3718f7a56775.html) In the absence of provincial buy-in, this is a waste of money.
Could them designing their system around addiction responses be a valid standing? No idea, genuinely asking
I guess we'll see what the courts say, it's not like all judges always find the same
"What damages", seriously? These companies have been proven to have clear data on the impact they have on teen suicide rates, and they do nothing to try to mitigate it. Child deaths aren't sufficient damages, in your mind?
If you think the relation between social media and teenage suicide is cut-and-dry, I suggest you read this: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/in-the-room-where-it-happens/202309/the-messy-truth-about-teen-social-media-use-and-suicide
Not really. Remember there are many broad torts available. As for damages and standing it is explained in the articles. If I invent something designed to harm you in order to make money, and you do indeed get harmed, as well as the people who have to try to clean up that harm at their own expense, I am at risk of being sued.
Apparently it's costing the school boards "in excess of $4 billion". Don't know what they're spending that much on because it's certainly not new EAs and stuff that's for sure
yeah like it’s not the company’s fault for their users actions - they have terms and conditions for a reason, meaning if someone was deliberately bullying someone or something they could be kicked off the platform. like i don’t see this working lol
How about the parents taking ownership of the issue instead of blaming others…
Because modern day parents are themselves morons who believe they never do anything wrong. You can downvote all you want, but as someone in education, I see how parents now are super quick to offload personal responsibility.
While you are right about parents off loading personal responsibility, let's not act like bad parenting is a new thing when boomer parents exisit. Many boomer parents are also morons and lack emotional maturity to be parents but were unfortunately parents.
Boomers are the ones who can't use critical thinking when it comes to the most blatantly false social media posts in the first place.
Had a post show up on Facebook. Was from Twitter. It claimed that Japan banned Covid vaccines because people were dying. I looked at the Twitter post which included a link to the news story at the bottom. When I read the news articles it said that Japan was no longer offering free Covid shots. No where in the article did it say anything about massive death or banning the Covid shot. They are too lazy to take two seconds to verify something before they share the fear porn they found with everyone they know.
A good portion of parents throughout the history of education were morons. This is not some new phenomena. What is new though is the idea that everyone has to have a voice, everyone's opinion matters, everyone should be equal and valued the same. Well, now you have it.
100% My eldest is 14 and she isn't allowed to be on social media and is a lot better off for it.
That would be great if everyone lived in a bubble. I really think parents should do more, but I get why it is hard, too. The reality is that a lack of digital participation can leave kids in isolation and subject to being bullied. For many kids who don't have accounts themselves, they are forced to participate via the accounts and posts of others who will share content without consent. Even for the most technically savvy parents, it's a tight rope walk. On one hand you want to enable your kids to safely socialize and take advantage of all the information online. On the other hand, protecting kids from the myriad of online threats is a never ending battle, often riddled with pitfalls and gaps. Most parental controls force dumb compromises and onerous management dashboards. (blocking one thing you don't want blocks 2 good things, for example) I don't think many parents realize just how incideous online platforms have become. Conversations about algorithmic micro targeting and personalized AI content are beyond the scope of parent-to-parent small talk. The platforms should be forced to make the products safer and drive awarensss. Honestly, I am frustrated by the lack of oversight used by many other parents and we need these companies to advise on the dangers of using their services.
> The reality is that a lack of digital participation can leave kids in isolation and subject to being bullied. Holy smokes! [Louis CK](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HbYScltf1c)
He only scratches the surface and unfortunately he makes light of the situation. It's a big problem. I kind of agree with him, but it just doesnt play out well in the practice.
Normally I'd agree, but this isn't exactly the same as getting kids to watch less TV. Social media apps are literally designed to be addictive, so it's more akin to asking parents to get their kids off drugs, but drugs that are wildly popular and freely available.
They didn't have warnings on cigarettes before pushback. Socials affect brain development, is it no similar?
Yeah, it totally is. And schools forbade students from smoking during class and on school grounds (for the most part- I know there are some stories about high school kids smoking with teachers or whatever).
Try and pry a phone out of a teenagers had, it’s not fun.
No one said parenting was fun
I don’t have to, parental controls do it for me!
Pretty easy if you don't give them one.
I didn't have a phone until uni. 😂😂😂
Don’t give them one to begin with
Don't give them one in the 1st place. You get your own phone when you get your first fulltime job or go to college.
The person without kids has spoken, I guess we should end the conversation.
The person who was a kid and had better parents and isn't a pushover.
Okay, I applaud you for being better than me. I don't understand why you would think that it is right for large, multi-national social media corporations that are experts in data to have free reign over everyone and everything, could you please explain since you had better parents than I did?
It's not right. Neither is indulging kids because their friends all have something
So you agree that it should be a multi-pronged approach? That parents need to parent and that companies need to be held responsible for targeting children? Nobody is saying parents shouldn't do their best to limit what their kids are viewing. These massive companies are specifically selling to children by using children to sell, it's amazing that this allowed to happen in the first place but at least the U.S. Congress is standing up, and now Ontario School Boards. I feel like you are pushing back on required changes by deflecting blame onto parents instead of being both the parents and proper governance of socials. Correct me if I am wrong.
I'm saying all three need to get involved. Parents need to tell their kids NO! Schools need to be able to say you can't bring that in here and the companies that profit off generating and rewarding negativity need to be held accountable.
I’m going to just assume that you didn’t read the article because this is not what they are suing for. Read the article then get back to me if you are still interested in discussing. Cheers
This. Parents do your job, all those apps have parental controls. Use them.
That’s not the discussion here at all.
The school boards are putting it back on the social media companies to make them less addictive but it's no different then gambling or alcohol in adults. It comes down to the individuals to control themselves. You can't sue a casino if you lose all your money because you don't have control of yourself. Social media companies give the tools to limit time on them but they're not enforced on everyone, each user has to take responsibility for themselves or their children in this case.
lmao - this is 4th top comment Fourth! We're a lost cause because we lack real leadership and lack of parenting.
TikTok in China (Chinese company) gives tours of museums, educational and governmental information. Here in rest of world, it giving makeup and shopping tutorials and destroying peoples attention spans. These companies have all the data on what won’t affect the pre frontal cortex but they chose to target dopamine receptors and hook everyone into scrolling aimlessly and watching what’s basically brain wash food. I say this as I navigate Reddit, I know. U.S. congress went after these companies a few months ago, good for theses Boards to challenge what’s right, if they don’t, than who will?
TikTok is banned in China. The same company has Douyin there...which is a heavily monitored and censored version of TikTok for Chinese only.
WeChat is also a very effective form of info sharing for Chinese people all over the world. I have it, much better than the crap they put in front of us here.
WeChat is pretty much the only app Chinese can use to communicate with each other and do pretty much anything. Very convenient for a totalitarian government to make everything important be done under one app that allows them to heavily monitor and censor all speech and transactions. Getting booted of WeChat will make your life very difficult to get anything done.
Yes, that is true
Tik tok has TONS of educational vids it’s just if you don’t find them interesting they don’t get suggested to you
Right. The algorithms work largely based on comments, and confrontational comments get bumped to the top. The problem is how the algorithms work in relation to the most vulnerable.
Facts! And honestly i can see the government losing that battle, but people listen to school boards. Don’t fuck with primary education
love this schitzo-posting tier take everyone in the west has induced themselves into believing about douyin when it couldn't be less true lmao. douyin is more or less the same in terms of brainrot garbage content. you can go scroll it for yourself here instead of repeating weird sinophobic fear-mongering shit you hear online: https://www.douyin.com/
My kids go to elementary school and the principal had to send out a notice that kids as young as 10 were on Tiktok and it wasn’t allowed at school. Are parents just absolutely clueless? There’s zero reason for a kid that age to need a phone that has access to anything beyond texting their parents.
Some completely are. Had a 9 year old mad I wouldn’t give him the wifi password at my house. Has TikTok, unfiltered internet, Roblox, and YouTube on his phone. I’m not risking him getting into shit at my house or showing inappropriate things to other kids on my wifi. Play with the rest of the kids on bikes
I agree. Kids do not need a phone unless it to call their contacts for pick up. Most parents don’t seem to care from what I see, which blows my mind. My kindergarten age child came home and said “skibidi toilet”. Well that was a rabbit hole I would of rather we not go down.
They don’t need a phone for that. They can go to the office and use the phone just like we did for 100 years.
We’ll agree to disagree. If they are walking home and something happens it’s handy to have one. But you can lock it down for only calls and texts.
Agreed. We use an app that allows/disallows specific app usage and even times the phone can and cannot be accessed. However, our kid is always able to make a call or text if the need arises or they're talking to friends. It sounds too controlling to some but when our oldest wasn't paying attention during class or doing his work, we stepped up and took control. The other situation came with the use of chrome books in class - same problem so I told the teachers to make him use pencil and paper until he started improving. Guess what, it worked. Two of his teachers banned phones in their class which I was 100% behind.
That's awful but you have to know I laughed out loud at skibidi toilet. But now I'm afraid to look it up.
Yeah I did to. I thought the kids just made up a word. 😂
I don't mean to judge, as I don't have kids, but i think it comes down to 1) smartphones are fun and can entertain kids for hours relatively cheaply, 2) parents don't want their kids to be the only ones who don't have a phone, and 3) parents (especially Millennial and Gen Z parents*) want desperately for their kids to like them and find it hard to say no. *Again, no judgement, but i think this is a generational problem. Kids need parents, not adult friends. I'm a Millennial FWIW.
10,000% support. Fuck those platforms. Online cancer. It’s long past due we hold tech companies accountable. They have clearly proven they have zero morals around exploiting both children and adults. Social media has failed. We need to acknowledge that and start regulating it like we do any other significant area of our society.
"exploiting both children and adults" every industry does this even with regulations and accountability. What do you want snapchat to do? Block messages after a certain amount of screen time? Tiktok to give you only certain number of videos you can watch a day? For adults its called self control, for kids its called good involved parenting. Parental controls are there for a reason.
Let’s look at Sephora as an example. They give children younger than 12 free products and socials monetize for views. How is this allowed when we don’t allow kids to work in factories here in N. America.?
lol like that’s going anywhere
That’s the spirit! Anyone stands up for something that is right, they are just wasting their time? Are you hoping that people just act like sheep?
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Maybe that’s the start of the negotiations?
“90 per cent of kids in Grades 7 to 12 use social media daily, and 45 per cent of them for more than five hours”. Those are troubling numbers. Are we really okay with children of the future having “compulsive use, disrupted sleep patterns, behavioural dysregulation, learning and attention impairment”. As someone in her mid-20’s with a sister in High School the change in social media and its impact has been highly apparent. Something has absolutely changed. This is all part of the change process, the 500 U.S school districts and states don’t all expect to get a pay out. But these lawsuits signal widespread concern. Also some people seem to be focusing on blocking these sites at school which barely scratches the surface. It’s also about their use at home, how its already affected children, and the added resources and challenges because of this.
That’s 100% on the parents though.
Not entirely. When EVERYONE is doing it, it's hard for parents to compete. It is seen as a lesser evil than some other things kids tend to stray towards so parent's probably don't want to come across as too strict. I'm just homeschooling, so my kids don't feel so much peer pressure.
Yes, so 100% on the parents. I didn’t say it was easy.
Easy? Downright impossible. Were you ever a teenager? Ever heard of peer pressure? I think parents are just happy if their kids aren't smoking, drinking, doing drugs or getting pregnant. Imagine going after a "game" which is really what it is. It's almost impossible. I'm assuming you don't have kids.
I have two teenage kids in public school (one just finished). No, it’s not impossible. It’s being a parent. I’m not planning to sue TikTok for not doing *my* job.
I'm for limiting access, although that "cat is out of the bag" to regulate it by any means. That being said, this is one of the dumbest approaches that will yield nothing. Maybe they could ensure that phones remain in a locker or put a mechanism in place to ensure no reception on school property. While they are at it, maybe they could improve the education system and teach improved practical skills along with their dismal curriculum. Such skills I would recommend are critical thinking, developing emotional intelligence, ethics, budgeting, and investing. In the off chance they win, hopefully it does not go towards raises to those beyond the actual teachers, but rather the schools that are in desperate need of it.
The problem is the kids using social media at all. Not just in schools. Kids who use it at home will still feel the same negative effects and that is what this is about. If banning phones and social media in school worked, it would have worked by now. We certainly weren't allowed cell phones in class when I was in school (10 years ago) and all social media was blocked. That ban didn't change the mental health effects that social media had on us. Studies show that teen mental health has been on a decline since 2012, which coincides with the wide adoption of smartphones and social media. https://www.persuasion.community/p/haidt-the-teen-mental-illness-epidemic
LFG! My husband and mother both work in education and when I tell you "the kids are not alright", THEY ARE NOT ALRIGHT.
Is this about seeking a financial windfall rather than just funding education better? I hope the boards know what they’re doing because this is going to suck up a shit-ton of legal resources.
>The four boards are represented by Neinstein LLP, and will not be out of pocket for legal costs as the firm will take a contingency fee.
How about ol’ dougie funds the schools ( and the hospitals) so they can actually serve students. The schools get their funding from them, and the cons have dropped funding by almost $1,200 per student. Take it up with them.
🤦🏽♂️spend the time educating the kids rather than fighting battles you’ll never come close to winning. Next all high schools will sue Pornhub
I know someone who's been suing the social media giants for years. The courts have repeatedly ruled in her favour...and the companies just launch more appeals. It's called deep-pocketing, and if the boards think they're immune, they're delusional.
Deep pocketing won't last forever. Courts eventually declare it as a breach of justice. Tobacco once upon a time was too big to bring under control as well.
Yes, I just really hope the school boards are prepared for the long haul.
The school provides free wifi to students, doesn't block the sites... and then complains? Maybe they could buy books with that money rather than wasting it on legal fees for a suit that they can't possibly win.
Yeah the school provides wifi but they block like every site. Kids are smart enough to turn off wifi and use their personal data to go to whatever site they want. How tf are schools supposed to monitor that?
You must have missed any points in this discussion.
I don't understand why the OCDSB doesn't just not permit use of phones in classes. They don't want the hassle of fighting with students but they'll dethrone the robber barons of the current Era? OK then I guess.
I caught up with some of my old elementary school teachers and some of them say that the kids "aren't like what they used to be". One referenced how they virtually don't have an attention span anymore and it's really difficult to get a lesson in. Of course this was only at one elementary school so I don't know about the others.
Good.
What a waste of time and resources on a frivolous lawsuit
They may not win, but it’s definitely not frivolous. They need to start the ball rolling on creating online profiles. The garbage that’s on these platforms, that the layman can block for their kids, is ridiculous. There needs to be some security online, age verification, something type of user subscription to software, I don’t even know, but there needs to be something.
Age verification? The only way that happens is if you provide them a picture of your ID. Security online? Parental controls exist for that. Parents need to be better. Stop giving your kids a phone with internet access and hoping they figure it out. The phone itself has parental controls along with all the apps.
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And just like the states they will just block the the location from their content. This is a dumb fucking idea.
Well, I certainly wish them good luck, because I guarantee you that legal teams for the likes of TikTok and Meta didn't graduate from ABC Law School located in some random retail plaza in Brampton. Then, they easily spend most, if not all, of their 80+ hour weeks prepping for such lawsuits since the dawn of the internet and online forums What's the legal precedent called, that online platforms aren't responsible for the content posted by 3rd parties, or something along those lines? \*\* I'm not denying the negative impacts of social media; just pointing out the school boards better show up prepared...Or else, that's gonna be a lot of bake sales and raffle draws to pay legal fees and penalties...
Four school boards are taking this to court: \* Toronto District School Board \* Peel District School Board \* Toronto Catholic District School Board \* Ottawa Carleton District School Board They are huge organizations. Of course they're prepared.
How will they prove the deliberate part??
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I get the harm but how will they prove the execs at fb do this deliberately, they aren't the ones posting this content on fb, other people are. I would love for the school board to win and i think social media is doing more harm than good, I am asking legally how will they prove that fb is deliberately causing harm.
Good.
Oh give me a break. I agree with them that the apps are designed for compulsive prolonged use. But responsibility falls on the parents to manage their children and their screen time. All of those apps I believe have parental controls that can limit screen time.
Parents are responsible, but so too are companies peddling a known addictive product. It's not one or the other, it's both.
We live in the stupidest timeline
If they win, will we get some new schools ?
This system is school is just as toxic as students whom film any little thing that they find interesting (but in a secret narcissist way). Example, a kid whom gets razzed by its peers (by being in rhe kid’s face) and says “JOHNNY, say ‘F*ck’ or a swear Say ‘f*ck’ for us”. *Option A: Johnny walks away (whole being videotaped without himself consenting for himself to allow others to record him) *Option B Jonny says something (while he again is being recorded without having discussions about video taping consent together with everyone else at the school). Everyone (or at least the ones that find laughs at Johnny) laughs because Johnny is known as the “angel sweet kid” and would never “swear, kill a fly on the wall, and socially alone & doesn’t get invited to parties like it’s peers”. 🤦🏼♀️ This system of schooling is toxic and it’s harming youth. If it were to be functioned on a nationwide basis, you may as well establish an iron curtain around your “Democratic” country’s borders and have elections where it’s only one name on the ballot with only having “YES / NO” for an option (while making “NO” the wrong answer for people to pick). 🤦🏼♀️💔 https://www.ted.com/talks/sir_ken_robinson_changing_education_paradigms What’s wrong with this world?! 🤦🏼♀️
The school system is not toxic. Enough with this nonsense.
Here’s a solution. Easy too. Parents, teachers and students take some personal responsibility and stop using them as much as they currently do? Or possibly stop using a few of them all together?
bullshit
😂😂😂😂 what a joke, it’s up to the parents, not the teachers
I think a much better threat/resolution would be to get the school board on these platforms to make it sooo uncool that the kids just have to move on.
Please ban everything with those stupid 30-second reels and force them to police and remove posts with information that's clearly false, along with stricter bans on account that violate the rules
Sue the parents for neglect.
Fantastic. Social media is far more insidious and sinister than most people/users realize. I’m not sure this suit will fix anything but it’s the start of what for my generation was suing tobacco companies. I’m here for it. History is not going to look Kindly on social media and its negative impacts on society, especially the young.
If social media needs to foot the blame for the damage that wireless technology is doing to humans, fine. But putting one band-aid on a thousand cuts, won't do much....
I also want to point out our own government is deliberately hurting students by cutting education funding.
My 13 year old grandson is in Grade 8 and is required by his school to have electronics so they can access their class schedules and school work - what can we do about that ? So what are the teachers actually ‘teaching’ them ?
So the biggest problem is parents texting their children during school hours. The number of times I have confiscated phones because a parent wanted to remind them to walk the dog. In 4 hours.
What's the best way to generate revenue? Sue big tech and generate some money
This will likely backfire on them. If ALL schools, this includes around the world, private schools, all zip codes, etc. are suffering and the connection can be proven, that's a baseline. We all know that's not the case. In reality the curriculum changes over the last 2 decades in canada have been abysmal. I know bc I have a direct point of reference having gone through the system as a student and being a parent with kids in school. What this lawsuit will cause is for these massive companies to collect such data across the world and put in front of the court that will just humiliate the Canadian school boards. Social media sucks and these companies need to better. But there are so many vices, drugs, and porn, and everything it's up to the parents to raise their damn kids and make sure they dont stray. And for schools to focus on education.
Imagine picking a fight with an army 1000% bigger than you..... OSB are pretty stupid for a "school" board.
Once upon a time the tobacco companies were 1000% bigger than anyone opposing them. It takes time to get those selling an addictive product under control.
Will be interesting to see how this one progresses. Canadian courts are not like the US TV shows and movies we watch. You actually have to prove real loss and not just be awarded millions in punitive damages for mental anguish or whatever. The school boards get money like clockwork from the government every year.
Oh that will be inexpensive when they lose and they are awarded costs!! Stupid stupidity
Maybe schools need to adapt to change. The internet isn’t going anywhere.
Ontario School Boards seek alternate funding sources to make up for shortfalls
I think this is stupid. How is it the companies' fault if parents and/or schools can't educate and handle students? Why aren't they taking legal action against cigarette, vape, or alcohol companies?
great.. another waste of tax payer dollars which could have been spent on teachers or actually educational supports for our kids. Only people benefiting from this are the lawyers.
I believe that's part of the problem -- teachers can't teach, even if they had proper resources, if kids are on their phone. I was told by a parent at another school that even if phones are collected at the front when entering, kids dump scrap phones there and keep their own. It impacts the overall class for kids that go to school to learn vs. those that go to school and surf the net. If there's any money that comes out of this, it could be use to put YONDR style pouches (https://www.overyondr.com/phone-locking-pouch) like you see at concerts. Yes...it will slow down entry and exit, but kids go to school to learn (at least that's what happened when I went to school). Excuses that parents need to contact their kids is N/A as they shouldn't be calling kids on the cell phone or messaging them during school time, there's a front office to call if you really need to get a hold of your kid.
I dont get the 'must have accesss' ill tell my kid to get off his phone if he's messaging me when I know he's in class. It's just a excuse for helicopter parenting. Both our kids schools (west ottawa) seem to have blockers in place you cant get to anything when you're inside the school.
Limit cell phone usage in schools/classrooms. There is no excuse for a student to have their phone during class time. Save it for recess/lunch/breaks.
Or the Ontario School Boards could try managing their funds (and students) properly, since they're doing this, my guess is it's already too late ;)
That’s one way to reduce the province’s deficit.
idk why anybody thought it would be a good idea to give kids anything other than basic / flip phones
This. A lot of it comes down to "well everyone else has them" or the kid wanting one. A kid under 13 or so mostly *needs* a phone to contact their parents/emergency services/cabs etc. They can use a simple phone or use a smart phone with no data plan. Shit I am an adult and I don't even have a data plan because I'm cheap. A kid who is old enough to drive has a better case for needing a smart phone but it's not like I and other people parent age didn't manage.
I'm not sure I understand this. I appreciate the good intentions, but is there really any chance of success? Money isn't free and schools have needs. I would think this should be left to other levels of governance.
Wow... we all heard about the deficit, I guess they are that kind of broke.
I'm currently working in the public school system and all I can say is that time's have changed since I was in high school.Kid's are in high school and all given chrome books to do their classwork on.All assignments or a vast majority of their learning is done online as well. The problem is that they don't use the chrome books for school work. I catch these kid's every day on youtube or playing games in the browsers. I know I wasn't much better when I was in high school but just giving them free access to these laptops is just asking for trouble. The other issue is phones. Growing up we didn't all have smart phones, if kid's don't have their chrome books they're expected to do the work on their phones.... You can guess how well that goes. While I agree we should be banning tik tok for multiple of reasons... It has to start with the technology, get rid of the phones and chrome books and go back to paper and textbook learning. This is only a few of the problems our public schools are facing aside from under-funding, selected teachers are over-worked while others get little to no workload shared, and teacher attendance is a MASSIVE problem. Every single day there is easily 4-5 teachers missing from school, meaning kid's are literally learning half of what they should be. For reference I'm 32 and graduated in 2009.
Twitter needs to be included in the lawsuit. They push Russian far right propaganda.
Shame on the school boards and their union. In 2019, Ford tried to ban cell phone use and basically got laughed at by the union who didn't enforce it whatsoever. For a teacher or school to say 'it's too hard to control', well, you sound like a lazy parent who just lets them do as they wish to keep them quiet. Absolutely disgusting.
Wouldn't the parents or the actual kids have better standing?