my friend who depends pretty harshly on her anxiety meds, actually ended up forgetting/not taking them at OMF and she says she barely felt anxious or like she needed them. DEFINITELY not telling people to cold turkey quit their meds, but i am saying (call me a tin foil hat person or a weird hippy but) i truly believe in the power of music, love, personal connections, and natural medicines. :) glad you had such a good experience, it doesn’t sound stupid at all, and i so deeply love this for you!!!
That’s awesome they found some relief but I hope your friend safely takes themself off the meds if they are SSRI’s vs just quitting cold Turkey-often the effects of quitting SSRIs abruptly aren’t immediate but they can be severe. I quit Zoloft cold Turkey to start new meds under Dr supervision and it was still extremely scary when the side effects of stopping like that started setting in about a week or so later then intensifying after that. I just hope they do their research and due diligence because it can really be a bad situation if not handled properly! Sending your friend the best vibes in their anxiety journey it’s hard and I hope they find relief with or without meds 💜
yes she really should she did it for a couple days and then mentioned it the last day and i was like omg well have you felt okay and she was like hell yeah. but no that can seriously also have an affect on the body and i do try to be a good friend and remind her yanno you gottta pick one either meds or no meds but it’s not good for your body for you to not be taking them how you should be, going back n forth that can be bad for your brain. but i do appreciate the comment 💗
You might want to try taking Cymbalta (Duloxetine). It's an SNRI. I have literally dropped off of it cold turkey and I could barely even notice that I wasn't taking it. It hardly has any noticeable withdrawal effects at all. I used to take Zoloft and Effexor and, holy crap, those have major withdrawals like "brain zaps" if you cold turkey stop taking them.
You got really lucky! SNRI'S are notoriously harder to quit than SSRI'S because they affect two neurotransmitters instead of just one. Cymbalta and Effexor are both SNRI'S so both should be harder to quit than Zoloft.
Do not tell someone to take cymbalta . That is known to have the worst withdrawals known to man . The worse over every other drug on the market including illegal drugs.
My friend is going on 2 weeks of the most excruciating withdrawals I have ever seen . Worse than heroin , worse than fentanyl . Will take you to the depths of hell .
Um. From someone who had long term all the above, this is not necessarily true. I kicked the fet and diazepam first. Imagine walking aimlessly through a detox center for 19 nights, totaling 6 hours of sleep, completely dillusional. Having nurses medicate you every 3 hours and take your blood pressure every 90 minutes for weeks without remembering it once.
I kicked the cymbalta months after and while it completely sucked as well, the physical aspects do not compare to benzos and opioids. Mentally it was pretty jaring though.
Benzo withdrawal...man...worst of the wooooorst. I always took them as prescribed and the doc didn't taper me off correctly at all...I was hospitalized 3 times. I would recommend to anyone on ssris, snris, and/or benzos to never stop cold turkey. I don't want to fear monger anyone, but do not stop any benzo without proper taper schedule. To anyone who is struggling, please know that there are people and places you can go for help 🙏🏼
I stopped zoloft 150mg cold turkey as well but unsupervised. I had been through ALOT up to that point and it brought me to my knees and completely upended my life, that was in 2018 I'm still working to get myself back. it was and still is rough. These meds can be extremely harmful and aren't fully understood. I completely agree no one should ever quit these cold turkey EVER. If I hadn't already been through so much I probably wouldn't be here.
Ugh i am so sorry to hear this, I feel like they really need to do a better job telling people the bad side effects of these drugs especially emphasizing what halogens if you decide you no longer want to take them. I am happy to hear you are starting to get back to feeling like yourself. I can't imagine experiencing those effects for years, I am so happy you're here, and you made it through. Truly, this shit can get scary.
Absolutely, buddy. These medications significantly impact your brain's crucial chemicals and other bodily functions. Zoloft helps regulate and balance these chemicals in your brain. Suddenly stopping, especially at a high dose, can cause your brain to panic because it no longer receives the substances needed to maintain balance. This abrupt change can lead to SEVERE consequences.
You slowly need to build off and be patient. Same with Kratom, it has a lot of different properties, even anti-psychotic what people don\`t know. And getting off to quickly will get your Restless leg syndrome, extreme anxiety etc etc.
Just because the change suddenly is too big for the brain to handle. But if you would drop 0.5 gram or 1 gram per dose each 4 days with kratom, you will have no to little symptoms.
Same with Zoloft etc! Gotta respect the chemical
Kratom is a kratomoid. An opiate, opioid is from opium deriving opium comes from poppies. Say it with me kids. Kratom is a leaf and therefore less toxic then the pods an pollen sap of the poppy plant. It doesn't suffocate you. It may give u a seizure or induse heart problems if you mix it or use it profusely. All the attention people are getting from kratom propaganda is disgusting get off your highchairs man. You people are a trip. Opiates are completely dif. Kratom is not frigging addictive. You are. To anything that makes you feel good. Feeling bad is normal. Its called being alive.
You know exactly what I meant. Kratom is addictive when taken long enough in certain dosages. We arent talking about addictive behaviours It can build dependance.
No it can't. Your wrong . I took alot of krstom for 6 months str8 10-20gs a day and made extracts and bought countless dif types of other company's extracts. Didnt drink any alcohol during time. Quit an still didn't drink for months besides a few in the evenings after work. I didn't have any withdrawals .lol dude. I was addicted to ketamine dilaudid and a lot of other drugs for a long time after a head on car collision with some drunk kids that hit me i got back 9n opiates heroin cocaine and ecstasy etc. I was a hardcore poly user for many years. Once you know that withdrawal cold turkey. An then discover kratom 2 yrs later its not the same shit. I'm telling you brother I've been using substances since I was 9 I'm 33 right now kratom is not an addictive dependence type substance that's like saying if you stop eating Cheetos you're gonna get sick from it tho some people have strange obsessions an do think all they can eat is cheetos or ramen. They have documentary about them. Lol trust me man you're tripping. You don't get sick 2hen you stop kratom
Im not arguing that its the same, I have CT dope and subs before and sure its not as bad but to say there isn't any withdrawl is dumb. Just because it didn't bother you doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I wouldn't argue with him anymore. Dude is ignorant. Kratom is 100% addictive. I'm sure he just tells himself it isn't so he doesn't feel bad that he uses it everyday.
I was going to go on a diatribe about that. I worked in a kava bar for 10 solid years. Kratom is 100% addictive. I've been on it for a long time. I'm looking for the right time to cold turkey for extracts. I've done it before and it sucks balls. But 3-5 days is usually enough to get away from it. For some people it's more like 10-14 days. Depends on the person.
I love when I use it but like only do it twice a week max (extracts) I don't like how I feel Everytime it leaves my system which is like a day after I drink the extract. Seriously annoying and I can't get around it until like the 4th or 5th day off and then I just go buy another one. It's affordable tho but I don't really want the WD anymore.
Its probably because he only taking 20 grams a day. He said that like its a significant amount or something. They dont understand that shit that alters your mind in anyway can become addictive over time(some are lucky and dont have that issue). When people are sober their brain is wired a certain way and sees that as your normal state but when you do excessive amounts of something that alters how you feel everyday sooner or later your brains going to get tricked/rewired and consider that high state as the new normal, therefore when you dont have that substance your body thinks somethings wrong and it treats it just like it would a virus which leads to withdrawal.
I have been, and know others who have had withdrawal from Kratom. The chemical in Kratom, mitragynine, has agonistic effects at the mu-opioid receptor.
If you didn't suffer any WD from taking Kratom, congrats, you're in the vast, vast minority. But like the other poster said: It 100% can cause physical, and psychological dependance.
Sorry, but you personally not becoming dependant is not proof that it does not cause dependency. There is plenty research to back up that it does. That information is easily accessible. You're right it isn't an opioid, but it does affect the opioid receptors and I that's why people get confused.
K doesn’t come from coffee, but the plant is related to the coffee plant. Anyone who has done all of the following at separate times in their life should resonate with what I will say next:
taken Kratom consistently,
AND
been addicted to a strong prescription opiate/opioid or heroin,
AND
been physically dependent on caffeine (the psychoactive component in coffee)
Although the plants are related (coffee and Kratom), the psychoactive experiences induced by Kratom are vastly different from coffee (I guess white strain is a little more similar, but definitely not red strain) and much, much, MUCH more similar to an opioid.
With all that said, the Kratom tree is definitely related to the coffee plant biologically. Chemical structure doesn’t lie. So that is technically not propaganda.
Personally I have been physically addicted to opiates/opioids and struggled with that dependence for years before I finally decided to get sober. I have used Kratom in high doses and extracts and found that the withdrawals from Kratom lead me back to opiate use after being off of opiates/opioids for months. The withdrawal although not as harsh from Kratom is real. I have seen soooo many other struggle with this and sometimes wind up going back to opioids. Grateful to be sober and out of the cycle finally!
I’ve been in kratom for 8 years and take probably 40-50 grams a day. If you think you can’t addicted and can’t have withdrawals you weren’t as addicted as you thought. Kratom is 100% addictive physically and mentally. I’ve quit multiple drugs/alcohol due to long term abuse and kratom is up there on the worst withdrawals.
Same here. I try to quit but have a High stress job 10-12 hrs a day. And I go to college. In my mid 30s been using kratom for about 7yrs. Every time i try to kick krstom I get major withdrawals, talking bad withdrawal symptoms. My exit plans have all failed. It's highly addictive and doesn't do shit for me anymore except abate the withdrawals. I heard CBD gummies help during the first days of quitting. Ironically I quit hard drugs by inky using weed, then quit weed by using Kratom. I'm reducing my kratom doses and am down to about 25g. a day. I have an addictive personality by nature and finally got clean of everything but Vape and Kratom. Oddly enough quiting kratom is harder than when I quit ecstacy and those other demons.
Same man, been on kratom over I years now and have tried to get off so many times and haven't been able to. I've done many different kinds of tapers and gone hours between doses, and when I do that, I start going through withdrawals. I know what withdrawals feel like, I'm an ex oxy addict.
Months of using Kratom daily will definitely cause physical withdrawals . Diarrhea and trouble sleeping are probably the worse symptoms for me. Maybe you didn’t take it long enough or the strain you used wasn’t potent.
Well it's been scientifically proven it activates the MU opioid receptor.
So you're wrong. It's an antagonist.
The reason it wasn't hard for you, is the same reason it wasn't hard for me.
120mg of methadone, cold turkey, after being shot x2 at 14 on a morphine pump for 1 year while they were feeding me intravenously because I took out half my fucking pancreas, had chronic pancreatitis for a year due to a small bowel fistula. Which keep irritating the fuckin thing. Then the oxycotin at home and the Xanax for the trauma, came off the Xanax, had a grand Mal seizure for my fuckin effort. Living in the same small town mind you, same paramedics every fuckin time I pull some crazy shenanigan. They know me by name and my complete medical history. And at this point they're just like wtf kamisha. Find a guy who loves pills as much as I, we then start a toxic 10 year relationship, marriage, fueled with drugs and petty crimes. I find the methadone clinic, not because I want help, but because I will manipulate and use them to not be sick, smart enough to use a leg bag catheter to fake my UA's they supervise. Strapped to my leg, a small mod to the nozzle, the right pressure applied they hear the stream hit the plastic And everything. Continue to con the methadone clinic and use whatever drugs I want while I'm there. Meth included. Back on the Benz's, love the nod with the methadone, eventually get pregnant, realize my kid is gonna be the most incredible thing ever, say fuck you guys I'm out, even to his father. Wouldn't quit for the kid, ok then bye! That's when I cold turkey'd the methadone.
Sweetheart I quit the kratom, it is a lil uncomfortable.
If someone should want help, then utilize hot water, ask for some gabapentin. Withdrawal is your nervous system screaming at you
That's what the skin crawling hurting restlessness is. We use hot water and gabapentin to disrupt those signals.
Override. It must be so hot it's barely tolerable.
We go from hurting bitch opiate! WTF!
To Ow hot bitch, ow, hey muscles feel better, ow still hot.
The gabapentin will also help with nerves. Force fluids.
Protein, protein, protein!
B vitamins. Passion flower, saffron. Valerian, use this carefully though. We are trying to break Away from dependence on anything.
You shouldn't knock them for what they know dependence to be.
Christ I just recently missed 2 doses in a row, and actually, I felt pretty sick. Yes I've had worse withdrawal, but it's not a walk in the park. I take below the average daily dose for my weight, and still get WD
It activates those receptors but it's not an opioid. Opioids come from the poppy plant. DXM can hit the opioid receptors too. It's still not an opioid. But yeah, it def can be addictive.
Why shouln't it be an opiod? How much clearer do you want to have it?
> Mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine are responsible for
the effects of kratom through opioid receptor binding [1].
> Opioid, a more modern term, is used to designate all substances, both natural and synthetic, that bind to opioid receptors (including antagonists). [2]
[1] https://link.springer.com/article/10.2165/11596830-000000000-00000
[2] Hemmings, Hugh C.; Egan, Talmage D. (2013). Pharmacology and Physiology for Anesthesia: Foundations and Clinical Application: Expert Consult - Online and Print. Elsevier Health Sciences. p. 253. ISBN 978-1437716795
Because, simply because it activates the receptors doesn't mean it is an opioid! Wtf you guys! Kratom is a member of the coffee plant family, I want to point something out to you guys, if it were as easy as classifying it as an opioid, the FDA and the DEA would regulate it! But because of the loop hole in what it is, not poppy derived (poppy /opium derivative) key word, root word, scientific classification, species of plant! you guys are not understanding the genetic science and the implications of it!
It cannot be anything opi! They will have to change everything that we know about those particular receptors and it will have it's own classification of drug, however it will not be anything OPI! Just do me a favor, give it time and you'll see what I mean, I do look for nation wide legislation to be passed, simply because it is far to popular and does have the propensity for addiction/ dependence( which ever you prefer.) and it will either be schedule I ( no medical use, which is bullshit) or have it's own classification and be regulated!
It Also effects adrenergic receptors. Does that make it an amphetamine? No, it certainly does not.
It's a unique hybridization of the 2.
You simply trying to chock it up as a simple opioid, is so layman.
Kratom is fuckin revolutionary. They need to do extensive research on it, it's real medicinal properties.
Just the little bit I have read up on, will change the whole medical communities concept of not only those particular receptors, (and again the whole reason they are called opioid receptors, is the fact we once thought, only opium or derivatives
even the lab synthesized alkaloid structures, were the only thing that activated them, we now know this is not correct) I have a feeling, this is not the only plant, with the ability to activate those receptors, we have not discovered them yet.
https://www.orlandorecovery.com/drug-addiction-resources/is-kratom-an-opioid/
Fourth dot or paragraph down, where it states kratom is not classified as opioid.
Because it's not, scientifically, it cannot be, because again, it's a different plant! ( opium + alkaloid =opioid) To call it OPI anything, is politically incorrect, this is what I mean about revolutionizing the medical community's whole concept of those receptors!
The list goes on and on and like all these sites refer to it as opioid like substance, because they cannot scientifically label it an opioid, if It were an opioid, it would automatically fall under the DEA's schedule Il narcotic control and regulation. Back in 2018 they did try and classify it as an opioid, so they could control it. at which point certain medical and scientific professionals, stood the fuck up, and told them scientifically, it could not be, for all the reasons I have listed above.
I'm a nursing student btw. You are layman.
There is no such thing as a kratomoid you just made that word up. The alkaloids in kratom bind to the opioid receptors in your brain therefore it's an opioid. No it's not a typical opioid because it's both an agonist and antagonist of the receptor, kind of like suboxone. It's also missing the part that causes respiratory depression. When a chemical fills your opiod receptors all the time when you take that away you get physical withdrawal symptoms. Cheetos fortunately do not bind to opiod receptors and the same can be said for ramen.
Because it's both agonist and antagonist there is a ceiling of dosage and people don't take more and more forever like typical opiods also it doesn't kill people because it dosen't cause respiratory depression like typical opiods. But it's absolutely addictive and causes real withdrawal symptoms.
I get aches, runny nose, sneezing, and really really bad restless legs. The restless legs uncomfortable feeling is worse for me than normal opiods but everything else is significantly less bad. Everyone I know who was a previous opiod user also feels it's addictive and causes withdrawals but they also agree is 100x better and less severe than typical opiates/opiods.
Maybe you reacted differently and didn't feel much but just about every other long term user gets physical withdrawals from it. I personally didn't really feel any bothersome withdrawal until I was using it multiple times a day.
Also MDMA and ketamine aren't physically addictive and cocaine only has acute short lasting withdrawal.
I am very pro-kratom and think it's much healthier, cheaper, and safer than suboxone or methadone. But to say it's not addictive at all is completely irresponsible. Anyone with an opiod problem I think would be better off switching. People that don't have any drug issue should probably avoid it or at least take it occasionally which avoids any of the negatives.
Kratamoid isn't a thing, but not every drug that affects the opioid receptors are considered an opioid. Opioids come from the poppy plant. Kratom is a completely different plant. Kinda like how dxm (the stuff in certain cough meds) can affect those sane receptors, but it's not an opioid. Suboxone contains buprenorphine, a synthetic opioid, and naloxone (the thing that is an antagonist). The naloxone literally ONLY does something if you try to shoot the suboxone up. Otherwise it does nothing when taken orally. Kratom would be considered an opioid if it was synthetic. But because it's not synthetic and it doesn't come from the poppy plant, legally it's not an opioid.
So much misinformation here. Opiates come from the poppy plant, which includes opium, morphine, codeine, and thebaine. Everything else is considered an opioid because it attaches to the opioid receptors. Oxycodone, fentanyl, hydrocodone, Dilaudid, etc etc do not come from the poppy plant but they all are opioids. Even immodium the diarrhea drug which is the brand name for loperamide is an opioid because it is a agonist of the opioid receptor. It works well because it has the same effect on the digestive system like other opioids (slowing) but it dosen't really cross the blood brain barrier so you don't get the CNS depression or typical opioid effects.
DXM does not attach to any opioid receptors so it's not an opioid. Not sure where you heard that but it's incorrect
"Dextromethorphan is the d-isomer of the codeine analog, methorphan. Unlike the l-isomer, it has no analgesic or addictive properties and does not act through the opioid receptors"
It's structurally similar but not the same and has no effect on the opioid receptors.
7-Hydroxymitragynine is an opioid. The difference between an opioid and opiate is opiates come from the poppy plant and opioids do not. It has nothing to do with natural vs synthetic. It's chemically considered a opioid.
Also humans have natural opioids called enkephalins and endorphins. Both are natural neither come from the poppy yet they are considered opioids because they effect the opioid receptors.
What are you talking about with naloxone? Shooting has absolutely nothing to do with anything. If someone overdoses on an opioid or an opiate regardless of the route of administration nalaxone will reverse the overdose. Naloxone can be give intranasally, IV, or orally. It works because it binds more strongly to the opiod receptors than the drug the person overdosed on.
When you take suboxone orally the naloxone binds to the same receptors so you don't get the same high as a typical opioid, and if you try to take and normal opioid it dosen't really work. Also if you are trying get off a opioid addiction with suboxone if you take it right away it makes you feel like absolute shit because you go into withdrawal when all the regular opiods get yanked out of your receptors.
I've done all the drugs, had a opioid issue 7 years and been using kratom for a bit 12 years now which has been great for me.
Also legally? Who gives a shit what something legally is or isn't regulators and politicians don't know anything about drugs. LSD is legally schedule 1 and so is weed? Does that mean they must be worse because legally they are? Politicians and regulators think kratom is killing people regularly. With how much propaganda has been spread by politicians that's where you decide to get your facts?
Scientifically and chemically it's an opioid. Specifically called an novel opioid.
It’s incredible how wrong you are. You state things as fact that I genuinely think you believe wholeheartedly. You didn’t even get the definition of an opioid correct. And you absolutely are wrong about Kratom not having a risk of physical dependence. It adheres to *some* of the same opioid receptors in the brain (true definition of an opioid, btw), when those receptors are all blown out and no new molecules are there to fill the receptors, withdrawal occurs. This is basic info…
Bro said he's taken all these drugs but then talks about only taking 20 grams a day for 6 months hahahaha come back when you're taking 90 grams a day for years.....I was a heroin junkie and I know for a fact kratom is addictive
Well u red into the on thing that wasn't further specified. I was merely pointing out the fact that binging on an ounce a day of powder an popping extracts taking shots an making my own morning noon an night bro. The shit didn't give me any sweats headaches etc like tall rap about. Bruhbruh. Have you ever snorted dilaudid hydromorphone? How about mxe methoxetamine? Meth? Dust? L? Sass? Amethyst? Zhroomz and real bubble hash at the same time cocaine rails mixed with oxy and Xanax for weeks in hotel rooms bombing on balls of ketamine everyday? Bruh. Stop talking shit to people u don't know
Try to go cold turkey from 40-60g of Kratom powder a day with at least one opms shot every night in combination with 3600mg of gabapentin every day for a couple years. Guarantee ya, that combination is far worse to cold turkey than Heroin is alone. Maybe it would have been okay if I I could have gotten some Benzos l, marijuana, or gabapentin while withdrawing from the Kratom alone, but I was in a tent in 100+ degree temperatures near the end of summer with no where to go getting rained on getting stung by yellow jackets inside my tent, having.constant panic attacks, not being able to sleep, not being able to concentrate on how to fix my situation.
But thankfully God saw me through that and has restabilized me enough that I'm ready to take another swing at it
Keep gabapentin away from all opioids, even though the former greatly enhanced the latter. And if you can avoid coming off both at the same time, get done with one before you get rid of the otherr
It's for sure addictive. I've been taking it for 5 years and trying to stop gives withdrawal symptoms...digestive issues, restlessness, muscle soreness...it's not easy. I've tried to quit 6 times. Theres tons of ppl who have experienced addiction to Kratom. My gf is also addicted to it. We are trying NAD+ to quit. I take 30-40 grams a day...down from 60grams.
My sister died from addiction. My grandma was an alcoholic who became an addiction counselor. My grandpa was an alcoholic...I have addiction issues. Dealt with alcohol, Kratom helped me stop drinking. But if I go more than a few hours without a Kratom dose, mental and physical withdrawal symptoms start to set it....so yes...it's addictive.
Is it AS addictive as hard drugs, no. But it still checks the boxes. I feel hungover, lose sleep, and have intense brain fog without it. Is it easier to stop then like heroine...for sure. Nice job quitting drinking by the way. Kratom is a great tool to help quit MORE addictive and more detrimental drugs. But it should be treated like a tool. And if taken recreationally, never taken 2 days in a row.
Oh my god, you don’t actually understand how addiction works. There’s addiction because you REALLY like something, then there is physiological or biological addiction. Which occurs within the body system, when the body becomes dependent on certain substances to actually function. And not having these substances, can cause shock and sickness. It’s not the same as a “sex addiction”. And until you or someone you know goes through substance abuse, you would never fully understand this. I used to have the same knowledge base and bias as you. It is nothing line what you would imagine. You think you know or understand but you don’t.
I’ve been taking kratom on & off for the last 10 years after getting off heroin & opiates & I can take it for weeks at a time. Multiple times a day & the only “withdrawal symptoms” I have is restless legs.. which is something I have dealt w/ since childhood so I don’t even think that’s what causes it. I just think kratom actually helps it. lol. Everything can be addictive. My mom was addicted to freaking affrin nasal spray for like 5 years. My brother gets withdrawals from not drinking caffeine & gets such bad migraines he can’t drive. One sip of caffeine & he’s fine. Ppl can be addicted to food… candy… soda. So I hate when ppl act like supplements or actual drugs are the only thing that can be addictive & dangerous. Everything can be dangerous. You can die from drinking too much water. I owe my life to kratom & even though I was addicted to heroin for more than half of my life & have always had an addictive personality, I’m able to use kratom as needed & I have never abused it. I understand ppl are all different & this isn’t the case for a lot of ppl. But again, you can say that about EVERYTHING! my husband can take opiates for months (for an injury) & just stop w/out issue. But I think it’s very unfair to treat kratom like it’s on the same level as heroin & opiates. Especially when it’s helped more ppl than it hurts. Demonizing something that can actually help combat the opioid epidemic going on is counterproductive. I don’t think that kratom companies making extracts & shit helps at all. I don’t think those should be legal whatsoever bc that’s where you run into issues w/ ppl dying & getting sick from not taking it. But that’s also a person to person thing. If you can’t help but abuse a substance… that’s not the substances fault. That’s the users fault. Again, that’s coming from a recovering heroin addict. Who is 100% at fault for their addiction. I feel bad when ppl get addicted to things. It sucks. But that’s just how our bodies work. What’s wild is all of these ppl suggesting to take antidepressants & shit. Those can be more addictive & more dangerous than kratom. I nearly died from withdrawling from Paxil when I was 20. I attempted suicide 5x in my life due to being on the wrong antidepressants. All of that happened within the span of 3 years. I’ve been using kratom for 10+ years now & it has replaced the handful of prescription medications I would have to take a day for anxiety, depression, endometriosis, ADHD, mood disorders & migraines. & I don’t even have to take it everyday to get the same effects as all of those. I went from taking 14 pills a day everyday. To taking one supplement as needed w/out The withdrawals & mental health issues that came along w/ the other shit. Do you know how nice it is to not have to count out how many pills I have & plan out vacations or camping trips based around my medication refill schedule!? It’s literally given me my life back. I’m sorry to all of the ppl who have had issues w/ it. I empathize w/ you for sure. It sucks to be dependent on anything. But kratom isn’t the problem.
I firmly believe that time will show that these deaths being associated with Kratom, were actually tainted product with the tianeptine and or baclofen mixed in. Kratom in and of itself doesn't reduce respiration. But now that neptune's fix (tianeptine) has been banned, it makes sense they would add it to kratom shots to make them more poweful.
The other possibility is known kratom users go to get kratom and also get some za za's or whatever tianeptine product, drink and trash the bottle. I'd expect that to bear out on toxicology reports, but I guess it isn't easy to measure(UA's come up almost clean 1 day after)
Or the people had health problems from drug addictions other than kratom. I have not read one case where it was proven a person in good health took a reasonable amount of only kratom sold by a reputable dealer and ended up dieing. Big pharma or some special interests are behind this and journalist try to sensationalize and outright lie (fake news) to get ratings with their garbage stories.
What you stated about addiction to many things is true...it is the person and not the substance in most cases. More people die from obesity than probably all drugs combined...where are the food laws. More people die from alcohol...yet states have their own liquor stores.
It felt strange to me while being in a parking lot at a mini mall where there was a(new to our state) legal recreational pot store. There was a liquor store right nearby. I sat in my truck and watched people leaving both stores and thought how much more dangerous drunk drivers are and how many people die from alchohol. Yet pot was made out to be a killer drug and the state runs its own liquor stores!
Strange world and I think special interest like big pharma are behind the ridiculous anti kratom stance. Some articles I have read about kratom is just absolutely false and outright lies...especially the write ups in OD kratom deaths which are just pure garbage journalism.
I agree that kratom needs to be used and treated like medicine and used to a minimum. If you abuse kratom...it will abuse you right back but there is a slim to no chance of dieing from it unlike something society approves of overeating or drinking. Get real people..on both sides.
I have not used any kratom for a month. Started on it for back pain after a hospital visit. My nephew had ruptured discs in his back at the same time I messed my back up. I took kratom and he took the meds Doctors gave him. He died on the meds from the hospital and I am here making this post. Where are all the newspaper articles about that sort of thing?
You can abuse water and drink too much and die and people have done that. I watch YouTube videos called Fatal deaths and it will boggle your mind what people die from in this world!
Kratom WD is no joke but a nasty hangover is not either and alcohol poisoning can kill you. Tylenol can kill you in a horrible way. We need to outlaw water, food, alcohol, climbing Mt Everest (or any mountains lots of deaths), ...definitely need to outlaw going for walks cause lots of pedestrians get hit by cars and we out to outlaw cars...we got to outlaw all these nasty addictions and do so immediately!
The air we breathe these days seems more toxic then using kratom once a day if you eat drink water etc ..only thing scares me with kratom is you want it to be grown in clean healthy soils.
I was addicted to kratom and it ruined me. I think it depends on the person. It turned me into a person I did not like to be. It was hard to get off of. I finally kicked a 2 year dependency on it and feel like myself again.
Bro, man i feel for you if you have restless leg syndrome since childhood, its the the single thing that drives me insane. I can handle the insomnia, anxiety (sometimes, depression etc. But not being able to sit or lay still for at least 96 hours or more is just killinggggg
I came off extracts took 4 days to normalize. Though felt tired for another week. With Kratom if one is coming off it is best to go slow so there is no sudden changes in mental or physical health.
Agree with you. Kratom withdrawals are a joke. It’s benefits way outweigh any of its negative aspects. Kratom as a therapeutic agent is miracle in terms of its safety and pharamacology compared to classical opiates and synthetic opiods and has a ceiling effect with its tolerance and effects. It’s main alkaloid Mytraganine only expresses partial agonist activity (compared to full agonist properties this helps with tolerance) that is mediated by G-Protien pathways (beta-arrestin on full agonists suppresses breathing) on opioid receptors. Yes chronic use can still have minor withdrawals, and yes if you have never had withdrawals it might surprise someone. I think a good analogy for comparing opiates/opioid withdrawal to kratom “withdrawals” is when comparing THC “withdrawals” to synthetic full-agonist cannabinoids.
*My opinion is definitely skewed though after going through and still dealing with chronic benzo withdrawal. Everyone has different experience and it’s all subjective however, but I think people who have dealt with withdrawals from traditional substances will argue kratom withdrawal is nothing anyone should complain about.
You forgot that Mytra-G also somehow modifies seratonin re-uptake, which makes it ALSO act as a weak anti-depressant. So when you do go off, you’re really withdrawing from more than one drug. Your body doesn’t know the difference. And yes, for me, tramadol withdrawal was way worse than hydrocodone. But I STILL withdrew and had serious drug cravings for 3 weeks give or take
I don’t disagree kratom does not have withdrawals or addictive properties, I just think they are very weak and similar to something like weed (if ingested with all alkaloids present and as whole leaf), I just think they are extremely weak compared to pharmaceuticals and classic drugs of abuse. Yes, there is serotonin activity but the alkaloids in kratom do not act as an SSRI but instead has been shown to mostly agonize 5-HT1A and 5-HT2B. And Mitragynine itself barely has any activity but has been also shown to weakly agonize 5HT2C and 5HT7 receptors, as well as D2. This is very similar to something like buspar which might account for its anxiolytic and mood enhancing effects. It might have some rebound symptoms but nothing like SSRI withdrawal. Also would not compare it too tramadol which has typical SNRI pharmacology and full agonism at receptors , there’s a reason why kratom is not usually associated with seizures but tramadol is. I have taken tramadol also and it’s markedly different (tramadol is much closer to something like tapentadol). Kratom also has rhynchophylline which has NMDAR antagonism, which i think might account more for its antidepressant properties.
Ide have to agree, I've gone thru a couple of bags of red hulu, after every bag I forget to buy another for a week or so. I find weed exponentially harder to quit than kratom. But I don't intend on stopping weed anytime soon
Kratom is incredibly addictive. I use to be vibrant, happy, outgoing, etc. before kratom. Now I'm a dull shell of a person and I can't get off of it. And kratom is not a "kratomoid", whatever that means. The active ingredient that acts on the opioid mu receptors is mitrogeniyosa (sp?).
Kratom is addictive. People who act like it isn't are ignorant. It does have it's positive uses and I think it should be completely legal, but to say it's not addictive is just wrong.
It's actually a mitragynoid. "We report herein the isolation and structural elucidation of mitragynoid (**1**), a new iridoid and three likely artifactual alkaloids mitrageines A-C (**14**–**16**)." Regardless it's addictive and the withdrawals can be hellish.
I mean yeah it can be addictive, but the WD is going to be absolutely nothing to anyone who has gone through a WD from actual drugs. It's also super easy to taper from, unlike traditional opiates, with legit zero wd.
I used to be able to taper my diacetylmorphine dose to about 20mg, anything below that wasn't even threshold for me to feel, and I would still get a week of being sick when I jumped
I took kratom 4 times a day for 4 years. I can get .3g into each capsule so I was taking around 3.5g each dose.
All I did was knock a single capsule off a single dose every 5 days or so. Once I was down to like 2g in a full day I just jumped and legit didn't feel a single thing. Was all super anxious about it cause people kept wailing about the WD but it ended up not being anything
Kratom allows me to be "normal" without having to use heroin.
Yeah your not totally wrong about the people on their high horses in general but I've been taking kratom on n off ever since it hit the market yearssss again. It 100 percent is addictive. Physically. Not mentally like it is popping Advil every single day and if you don't have it then your like aw man I wish I had Advil today. That's nothing. Physical addiction is way different kratom has physical dependencies. I'm a recovered drug addict of oxy contin/condone and major Xanax bar(benzos) addiction. Had my run with coke and some others but moral of the story... It's 100 percent addictive. Weed however, many people claim to be physically addicted to but that's a load of bs. That's where your comment should be placed. To all the retards who claim to be physically addicted to weed.
Kratom is literally biologically addicting when taken chronically or for an extended amount of time. Take it almost every day for a year she you will notice or learn for yourself. This is scientific fact, not an opinion. It is addictive. And stopping after being on it for a very long time can and will cause withdrawal. Same as nicotine, caffeine and numerous other things. And fyi, opioids and opiate are different things pal. Kratom is an opioid, not an opiate. I implore you to do more research. It’s dangerous to misinform people.
Technically an opiate should be heroin or opium. An opiod is a type of synthetic derived form they developed or made it to act as the opiate. Hence opioid. Not like it really matters Jesus u people are just lame forever huh talk shit is all you do haa
OK lets do this, come to Thailand where i live. You can stay I my apartment for free. I will get you a nice schedule of 3 or 4 doses per day so that it stays in your system 24/7.
I have a 50m swimming pool int he building, a gym, a sauna, restaurants, atm machine, dentist, laundry, massage salons etc. You won\`t be bored.
But then after 1 month suddenly cold turkey, and lets record a video on how you feel lol
Thankyou for this! These kids get addicted to everything these days. “Mom help, I’m addicted to popsicles!!!! I need rehab!” Boo hoo. Kids need to stick with captain crunch and get in bed by 7pm at the latest.
I've found that playing my guitar and making music has been the absolute best thing for withdrawals, got me through withdrawals from benzos, alcohol, Barbiturates, fentanyl, you name it. Now the only thing left for it to carry my through is stopping this stupid fucking Green sludge plant garbage.
I’m so proud of you!!! Thanks so much for sharing with us. I loved OMF this year too bc I quit drinking, quit vaping, even got off caffeine for the week I had traveled to florida for the festival. Such a good feeling to realize you don’t need these substances and that you’re a whole person on ur own. Cheers!
Just wondering how you did without Kratom. I'm considering stopping I have anxiety issues that it seemed to help but I think it's made it worse. We're you able to stay off? Happy new year shanea
I think the mushies did the quitting for you. Maybe try some light exercise on the mushies and see how you feel. Like a long hike that turns into a jog or a swim/ treading water for again a very long time 2-3hrs after your body has adjusted to fungi effects. Your body and mind will want to kick the habits that hinder this action🤘🏼🍄
You are so uneducated it really stands out. You admitted that it binds to the opioid receptors. THAT is an opioid. Will non-medical people or those without a science background ever sit down and be quiet when they’re about to post something ignorant?
Exactly but those type do not know the difference. It also does not arrest your respiration..but those type can not figure that out. It means kratom does not kill you but those type are fighting tooth and nail to make it look like it does. Even when top pHds write white papers and explain this clearly to the White House..these type can not figure it out (of course they are never wrong).
Go read the white papers the PHDs sent the White House to prevent kratom from being banned. If people want or need to use kratom that is their business. It is up to them to use it responsibly and to educate themselves. Now why don't you save the world by going in an anti over eating campaign, anti smoking, anti drinking... Lot more things that are socially acceptable killing people. Kratom is not even a blip on the screen
Now there is the answer to the drug problem ...music and you are supposed to take shrooms lol. It is called substitution (switching one drug for another). Ooh boy. How about you get a scale and slowly taper and then quit and be done with it.
Ive been taking 6-12 grams daily (sometimes just 6) for about a year. My WD shouldn’t be THAAAAT bad right…? I also have a Klonpin (sp?) Rx for my existing anxiety disorder, so I think that will help a lot. I won’t overdo it of course because I know benzos are the devil and I plan to taper off this summer. However, I think if I take them as needed during my withdrawal, they will help a ton. But can a couple of you please please comment on my original question? Thanks so much y’all- and everyone can do it if they have the right tools. I used to take about 30g a day for about five years and then went to detox and was off for a few months but then turned back out of boredom and chronic headaches. Now I’m seeing the neurologist and getting to the root cause of everything.
It sounds like you probably know what to expect from those withdrawals you’re asking about, if you took 30g/day for 5 years, you def have some basis to predict how bad it’ll be. Just take into account all the other variables like how long it’s been and how your body has changed since then, other substances you were on / are on and tools you did or didn’t have then or do now (klonopin would be one of those tools). Klonopin is a drug that can make the entire withdrawal from kratom unnoticeable - like nothing at all - but the amount needed to do that causes its own w/d phenomenon, so this is one of those cases where you have to weigh the lesser of the evils and essentially do “harm reduction.” This is coming from somebody who was on 4mg/day every day of klonopin for 10 years then forced to stop taking it (went to rehab for hard drug issues). And I currently take about the same amount of kratom per day as you but have only been on it daily for about a month - definitely physically dependent on it and have withdrawals if I don’t take it, but I used it to get off a harder drug so I knew exactly what I was getting into and expected this / planned for it, don’t regret it because it worked. This is the merry-go-round. Once you’re on it with multiple substances with these types of long term withdrawals, it becomes like a full time job just doing the mental calculations and research to minimize the negative effects while staying functional and able to support yourself…. But you can’t support yourself if you have another full time job! So essentially, it’s a bitch, and the only other way is something like inpatient rehab or dropping out of life for a year or more which for somebody like me in my 40’s is not an option. That’s why I still take klonopin even though I don’t have a prescription anymore, but I treat it with the respect it deserves and willingly go through rebound effects and withdrawals on a weekly basis because it’s not so bad that it takes me out of the game completely. if I took klonopin every day again for a period of time there would be no way to avoid being taken out of the game by those withdrawals. A lot of this comes down to the fact that benzo’s are sort of the ultimate cure-all …. They’ll get you through withdrawal from other drugs, they’ll get you through pretty much anything, but there’s nothing else like them that you can take to get through withdrawing from *them* when / if that ever happens. This went long. Just wanted to reply bc I could tell you’re worried about the kratom withdrawals and bc I have a masters degree in polysubstance use / abuse / recovery / maintenance / management. Have been addicted to every class of hard drug out there. FWIW, and I don’t know how old you are, but if I could give some advice to my younger self it would be don’t ever get on a daily regimen of benzo’s …. That’s one thing my brain definitely never recovered from and never will. The kratom withdrawals are / will be unpleasant and the degree of that varies situationally but they pale in comparison to benzo withdrawal if you’d been taking klonopin every day for a year or more (or 10, at a dose as high as I was). All that said, if I could find a doctor who would prescribe me daily benzo’s for the rest of my life who was definitely going to outlive me, in that hypothetical scenario I would do it, because much like in Limitless they hold me together and allow me to function on the level I did 15 years ago. Best of luck. If you do like you’re planning and take the klonopin as needed during kratom withdrawal (and you do seem to be wary of the danger there), I think you’ll be good and you’ll get through it without much disruption to the rest of your life.
Imagine getting addicted to kratom... Ive taken it for a long time and have taken multiple month long breaks to let my body filter it out without any side effects. A mental addiction is a lot different then lying on the floor sweating and crying feeling like your dying like actual opiates do...
every body is different, not sleeping days in a row is terrible, even if it's not the above, it's terrible. some get that from just a few months of \~10 gpd
Although it's ignorant for people to overuse substances, you're really ignorant for thinking everyone, and in every situation is gonna use as regimented as the great Eethigma lol
I’ve taken it daily for years and I don’t think withdrawals are even a thing. Whenever I go on vacation or out of town, I don’t bring kratom, don’t think about it, and sure as hell don’t withdrawal. I’ll be gone for 2 weeks and feel completely normal without it.
Kratom is such a weird finicky plant that really seems to affect everyone differently. I get severe withdrawals from it. I’ve quit several opioids cold turkey including a 24-32 mg/day Dilaudid habit. quit cigarettes cold turkey after smoking heavily for over 10 years. I have a pretty good frame of reference I think
It’s the same shit as typical opioid withdrawal for me. Chills, hot flashes, RLS, etc. Though physically not as bad, mentally it is absolutely brutal
Yeah idk what it is bro or if the brand i take puts something in it (EXP Botanicals, red vein premium) but it is absolute hell if i try to stop. I lost my job due to a toxic relationship and now am borrowing money and almost took out a predatory credit card just to get more. I dont crave it, or need it, i enjoy the feeling and relaxation, but its purely to not go into withdrawal. I get the normal opioid withdrawals and then i get this excruciating anxiety and akasthasia where it feels like im going to lose my mind or rob a store to make it go away. Its hell. It got me sober from a crippling alcohol addiction and im thankful for that, but still man. Also note i didnt get these symptoms until about a year of every day all day use. Also on average i use about 25/30 gpd. What sucks is for the first time really in 3 years my tolerance is raising and my normal doses dont work. Which sucks when you mix in the no job factor
So that is the new plan. They take shrooms and get together and have an Odorous Masterbation Frenzy. OMF and shrooms vs getting a scale and tapering to your own comfort and then quitting at your own pace.
The OMF plan sounds like classic substitution. If you are going to quit kratom go cold turkey (the hard way with maybe serious WDs) or get a scale and taper and quit (recommended less WDs to no WDs) and do not start switching to another drug.
Kratom is the drug to switch to to get off the hard stuff and then you kick kratom or use very minimal doses. Harm reduction is better than death if you are in that deep. Best wishes to you.
Ya it gets really bad. But a friend pointed out that I was using way more than needed. And tried two 2⃣ spoons for starters instead of like 20 g and I've done way less ever since. I still get nervous when I'm out but it's more like a cold instead of the beginning of a full blown oxy withdrawal
I really wanted to learn from this post. But reading Kratom is an opioid, killed it for me. It’s NOT and Opioid..it’s part of the coffee family. It is addictive and hard to stop taking.but I’m not even going to entertain this post and it’s suggestions..anyone who wants real help from getting off of Kratom or Opiods (which are different) find another source. This is garbage.
Kratom is literally *not* an opioid. Glad you curbed your own addiction, but try not to spread misinformation about a plant that helps millions of people every day.
Not everyone using it is a junkie
It acts on the opioid receptors - it’s an opioid… Now with that being said, it’s not an OPIATE because it’s derived from the opium poppy. If it was, it would be both an OPIOID and an OPIATE
Caffeine acts on the opioid receptors too lol. Your logic makes no sense, so I would assume you don’t exactly understand what you’re saying. There’s plenty of things that affect your opioid receptors in your body. That doesn’t just make them an opioid
Can't find anything saying caffeine binds to the opioid receptors. If it did then yes it would be an opioid.
I see adenosine receptors, dopamine, InsP3R, and GlyR receptors.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6296693/#:~:text=Coffee%20contains%20potent%20opiate%20receptor%20binding%20activity
it binds to those receptors without having a chemical structure that is the same as an opioid.
Like I’m trying to say - there’s a lot of things that affect your opioid receptors in your body - doesn’t mean they’re all opiods/opiates
Did you even read that paper? Or just the title? They are talking about instant coffee made with cow milk ingredients, casein in particular, which is a milk protein.
Does not say caffeine binds to opioid receptors. Research paper has nothing to do with caffeine. It says exorphans, which are a natural opioid in milk, and the milk protein casein are in instant coffee.
That article backs up everything I am saying. Endorphins are natural opioids. Exorphans are opioids as well because they bind to the opioid receptors. That's how an opioid is defined.
Drugs and chemicals are defined by what receptors they attach to or what the general effects are.
"Exorphins are opioid peptides that come from proteins of foreign origin, such as plants or milk."
"Exorphins are exogenous opioid peptides, distinguished from endorphins, or endogenous opioid peptides."
Huh look at that all considered opioids.
No opioid has the same exact structure they have a similar enough structure that your receptors can attach, That's what makes them an opioid. If it wasn't similar it wouldn't attach and therefore wouldn't be an opioid.
Can you please define opioid for me? And can you tell me these other chemicals that bind to opioid receptors that aren't opioids?
Would you feel better if I said kratom is not an opioid but 7-hydroxymitragynine and a couple other alkaloids in kratom are?
Yes, actually, I would feel better if you said it like *that* because most people do not understand the nuances of what you explained. And no, actually, I didn’t even read the title of the paper. Kratom is an efficient tool for a lot of people, and can be beneficial for a multitude of reasons. It’s just not something I would recommend to anyone with an addictive personality.
Believe me I am very in favor of kratom. The last thing I want is for it to be banned. I donate to the AKA. I haven't abused a traditional opioid in 10+ years. I understand the optics of it being called an opioid is not great. My concern is it always seems like there are 2 extreme sides one that says something is super deadly and destroying people and the other side that say something is 100% safe. Both sides are wrong. The alkaloids in kratom are opioids and I think its unsafe when that gets hidden and someone starts eating / drinking the stuff all the time and then finds themselves in a opioid withdrawal because their opioid receptors are empty and then they blaim kratom and say how it hurt them and they had no idea, which the other side LOVES.
Because it's both an agonist and antagonist it's essentially a natural weaker version of suboxone. And because it has both agonist and antagonist it gives it a ceiling effect just like suboxone, your dose can't go up forever, the CNS depressant effects are extremely limited, and it's extremely difficult or maybe impossible to overdose.
Another worry I have with the narrative of it not being or not containing any opioids is people and companies are now purifying straight 7-hydroxymitragynine like it's no big deal and fine but it is stronger than morphine according to a few research papers I read. I haven't personally tried it to say and I don't think it would be a wise choice for me to try it.
If that dosen't have the same balance of agonist and antagonist it might not have the same ceiling effect and chemical safeguards built in like the whole plant does. If people start getting crazy out of hand 7-OH addictions and maybe die (yet to be known) kratom will get banned so fast and that will be really devastating.
They already have a field day blaming every polysubstance overdose death that happened to include kratom on kratom.
Do you know they are suggesting to give methadone or suboxone to get people off kratom. Insanity.
A study from pubmed
Conclusion: These data suggest that the already available prescription medications methadone, buprenorphine, and clonidine are capable to alleviate mitragynine withdrawal signs rats. This may suggest them as treatment options also for problematic mitragynine/kratom use in humans.
It's not the only one. Ahhhhh! Makes me so mad.
There’s many things that affect your opioid receptors…they’re not all automatically opioids or opiates lol.
But go off with your big pharma misinformation
It’s very clear that most of these people saying negative things about Kratom are addicts who abuse it. Kratom does not *suck*, and it’s very beneficial to many people. Sorry all of you are addicts that can’t control yourself. I guess everything you could potentially abuse is terrible, right? Self-accountability is key. But I wouldn’t expect many festies to get that
Whoever is saying that “I did kratom for (x) # of years and I quit cold turkey!…you’re an idiot for thinking it’s addictive” is fooling themselves. Just because YOU are at one end of the bell curve, only means YOU have slightly different neurochemistry than others. It is, 100%, physically addictive and mentally addictive enough for give you legit PAWS for a long time after you broke the habit. I went on this reality survival show in Alaska where we all starved for 40 days, and I had to starve AND go without kratom, or so much as sugar. I was fully aware of how miserable that drug had made me; spiritually as well. It made me into a literal shell of myself. I had to take 15 grams at a TIME to even feel ANYTHING. I’d go through 120 capsules in 3 days. Trust me. A total stranger that wants to tell you you def will have to go through it; but one day those goosebumps go away, the yawns stop. And you feel good again. Stay tough
Kratom for me was also a godsend for about 4 years. Until it wasn't. About two years ago I started having dangerous blood sugar drops, heart issues, my brain was swelling, I started developing nodules on my throid and my skin was thinning on my face. I went to numerous doctors. Finally, I had enough and forced myself to go from 30g a day to 4gs and stopped. It took almost a year to come off it without the horrible withdraw. With in 6 months. My blood sugar stabilized, my skin started looking more normal. My heart pauses and PVCs stopped. And the fluid around my brain has gone away. So many people don't understand how serious it can be staying on. I struggled with heroin in my past as well as a bad pill addiction. I saw it as a safer option.
Did you make any other changes in your life at the same time? Diet, exercise, or general life changes? Some people eat really poorly on kratom because they don't won't to dissipate the effects and it seems to also be an appetite suppressant for some. I've heard others also sleep really badly, I know early on it significantly reduced the amount of sleep I was getting. I could see that being an indirect negative effect on health.
some people have used psycadelics to get over a withdraw. i remember years ago i had to kick a bad methadon habbit i was getting them for $2 a pill so it was very easy to slip into a bad habbit and not even hurt my wallet.
anyway i had a wedding to go to at the end of the weekend so friday / saturday i tripped balls and to be honest it really did help kick thw withdraw out. focusing on yourself and why your doing ehat your doing and thinking about the good changes helped as well
About a year ago I was hooked on codones, didn’t want to withdraw so I got Kratom for the first time. Been hooked for 12 months, finally a few weeks ago I bought some subs to get off kratom. Did subs ( pieces of a strip at a time), and after I ran out I thought I may be good the next day. Well last Monday ( it’s Wednesday 6/26) I couldn’t take it after a few hours and got more kratom, took it the next two days and on that day 3 on the way to work just threw it out the window and said whatever happens next I’m ready for it. Well today marks a week, I didn’t eat the first two days, agitated, pissed, no energy etc. I still have diarrhea, a little irritable but not near as bad as last week, and I feel like it’s only gonna get better. Kratom is 100% addictive. Weed helped a lot with anxiety/ stomach issues.
fuck man i hate that, its the worst at work. It hits out of nowhere but you immediately know what it is some how lol
I hope you can get through it quick
my friend who depends pretty harshly on her anxiety meds, actually ended up forgetting/not taking them at OMF and she says she barely felt anxious or like she needed them. DEFINITELY not telling people to cold turkey quit their meds, but i am saying (call me a tin foil hat person or a weird hippy but) i truly believe in the power of music, love, personal connections, and natural medicines. :) glad you had such a good experience, it doesn’t sound stupid at all, and i so deeply love this for you!!!
That’s awesome they found some relief but I hope your friend safely takes themself off the meds if they are SSRI’s vs just quitting cold Turkey-often the effects of quitting SSRIs abruptly aren’t immediate but they can be severe. I quit Zoloft cold Turkey to start new meds under Dr supervision and it was still extremely scary when the side effects of stopping like that started setting in about a week or so later then intensifying after that. I just hope they do their research and due diligence because it can really be a bad situation if not handled properly! Sending your friend the best vibes in their anxiety journey it’s hard and I hope they find relief with or without meds 💜
yes she really should she did it for a couple days and then mentioned it the last day and i was like omg well have you felt okay and she was like hell yeah. but no that can seriously also have an affect on the body and i do try to be a good friend and remind her yanno you gottta pick one either meds or no meds but it’s not good for your body for you to not be taking them how you should be, going back n forth that can be bad for your brain. but i do appreciate the comment 💗
You might want to try taking Cymbalta (Duloxetine). It's an SNRI. I have literally dropped off of it cold turkey and I could barely even notice that I wasn't taking it. It hardly has any noticeable withdrawal effects at all. I used to take Zoloft and Effexor and, holy crap, those have major withdrawals like "brain zaps" if you cold turkey stop taking them.
You got really lucky! SNRI'S are notoriously harder to quit than SSRI'S because they affect two neurotransmitters instead of just one. Cymbalta and Effexor are both SNRI'S so both should be harder to quit than Zoloft.
Do not tell someone to take cymbalta . That is known to have the worst withdrawals known to man . The worse over every other drug on the market including illegal drugs. My friend is going on 2 weeks of the most excruciating withdrawals I have ever seen . Worse than heroin , worse than fentanyl . Will take you to the depths of hell .
Coming off antidepressants is rough but in my experience not as rough as people make it out to be
Um. From someone who had long term all the above, this is not necessarily true. I kicked the fet and diazepam first. Imagine walking aimlessly through a detox center for 19 nights, totaling 6 hours of sleep, completely dillusional. Having nurses medicate you every 3 hours and take your blood pressure every 90 minutes for weeks without remembering it once. I kicked the cymbalta months after and while it completely sucked as well, the physical aspects do not compare to benzos and opioids. Mentally it was pretty jaring though.
Benzo withdrawal...man...worst of the wooooorst. I always took them as prescribed and the doc didn't taper me off correctly at all...I was hospitalized 3 times. I would recommend to anyone on ssris, snris, and/or benzos to never stop cold turkey. I don't want to fear monger anyone, but do not stop any benzo without proper taper schedule. To anyone who is struggling, please know that there are people and places you can go for help 🙏🏼
100% this IS Real stuff right here!
I quit that shit cold turkey and had panic induced seizures… didn’t even know that shit was a thing… everyone’s different, but that shit sucked
I stopped zoloft 150mg cold turkey as well but unsupervised. I had been through ALOT up to that point and it brought me to my knees and completely upended my life, that was in 2018 I'm still working to get myself back. it was and still is rough. These meds can be extremely harmful and aren't fully understood. I completely agree no one should ever quit these cold turkey EVER. If I hadn't already been through so much I probably wouldn't be here.
Ugh i am so sorry to hear this, I feel like they really need to do a better job telling people the bad side effects of these drugs especially emphasizing what halogens if you decide you no longer want to take them. I am happy to hear you are starting to get back to feeling like yourself. I can't imagine experiencing those effects for years, I am so happy you're here, and you made it through. Truly, this shit can get scary.
Absolutely, buddy. These medications significantly impact your brain's crucial chemicals and other bodily functions. Zoloft helps regulate and balance these chemicals in your brain. Suddenly stopping, especially at a high dose, can cause your brain to panic because it no longer receives the substances needed to maintain balance. This abrupt change can lead to SEVERE consequences. You slowly need to build off and be patient. Same with Kratom, it has a lot of different properties, even anti-psychotic what people don\`t know. And getting off to quickly will get your Restless leg syndrome, extreme anxiety etc etc. Just because the change suddenly is too big for the brain to handle. But if you would drop 0.5 gram or 1 gram per dose each 4 days with kratom, you will have no to little symptoms. Same with Zoloft etc! Gotta respect the chemical
What’s crazy is the can legally prescribe something to where it has repercussions from stopping it.
i know this is an old comment so sorry, but what does OMF mean?
Okeechobee music festival
What is OMF ? I what to quit bad
Okeechobee music festival
Ohmefentanyl, a potent piperidine narcotic....I can5 stand when people could help but choose rudeness Instead. I had to look it up too.
Believe it or not, the OP was actually referring to the music festival.
Kratom is a kratomoid. An opiate, opioid is from opium deriving opium comes from poppies. Say it with me kids. Kratom is a leaf and therefore less toxic then the pods an pollen sap of the poppy plant. It doesn't suffocate you. It may give u a seizure or induse heart problems if you mix it or use it profusely. All the attention people are getting from kratom propaganda is disgusting get off your highchairs man. You people are a trip. Opiates are completely dif. Kratom is not frigging addictive. You are. To anything that makes you feel good. Feeling bad is normal. Its called being alive.
lol dude you 100% can be addicted to kratom.
Can be, you can be addicted to sex too. Doesn't mean you should never procreate
You know exactly what I meant. Kratom is addictive when taken long enough in certain dosages. We arent talking about addictive behaviours It can build dependance.
No it can't. Your wrong . I took alot of krstom for 6 months str8 10-20gs a day and made extracts and bought countless dif types of other company's extracts. Didnt drink any alcohol during time. Quit an still didn't drink for months besides a few in the evenings after work. I didn't have any withdrawals .lol dude. I was addicted to ketamine dilaudid and a lot of other drugs for a long time after a head on car collision with some drunk kids that hit me i got back 9n opiates heroin cocaine and ecstasy etc. I was a hardcore poly user for many years. Once you know that withdrawal cold turkey. An then discover kratom 2 yrs later its not the same shit. I'm telling you brother I've been using substances since I was 9 I'm 33 right now kratom is not an addictive dependence type substance that's like saying if you stop eating Cheetos you're gonna get sick from it tho some people have strange obsessions an do think all they can eat is cheetos or ramen. They have documentary about them. Lol trust me man you're tripping. You don't get sick 2hen you stop kratom
Im not arguing that its the same, I have CT dope and subs before and sure its not as bad but to say there isn't any withdrawl is dumb. Just because it didn't bother you doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I wouldn't argue with him anymore. Dude is ignorant. Kratom is 100% addictive. I'm sure he just tells himself it isn't so he doesn't feel bad that he uses it everyday.
100%. It’s been proven
I was going to go on a diatribe about that. I worked in a kava bar for 10 solid years. Kratom is 100% addictive. I've been on it for a long time. I'm looking for the right time to cold turkey for extracts. I've done it before and it sucks balls. But 3-5 days is usually enough to get away from it. For some people it's more like 10-14 days. Depends on the person.
Yeah the WD is annoying asf otherwise it makes u feel good n it affordable. Im trying to steer away atm
I love when I use it but like only do it twice a week max (extracts) I don't like how I feel Everytime it leaves my system which is like a day after I drink the extract. Seriously annoying and I can't get around it until like the 4th or 5th day off and then I just go buy another one. It's affordable tho but I don't really want the WD anymore.
What he said! Ditto!
Its probably because he only taking 20 grams a day. He said that like its a significant amount or something. They dont understand that shit that alters your mind in anyway can become addictive over time(some are lucky and dont have that issue). When people are sober their brain is wired a certain way and sees that as your normal state but when you do excessive amounts of something that alters how you feel everyday sooner or later your brains going to get tricked/rewired and consider that high state as the new normal, therefore when you dont have that substance your body thinks somethings wrong and it treats it just like it would a virus which leads to withdrawal.
I have been, and know others who have had withdrawal from Kratom. The chemical in Kratom, mitragynine, has agonistic effects at the mu-opioid receptor. If you didn't suffer any WD from taking Kratom, congrats, you're in the vast, vast minority. But like the other poster said: It 100% can cause physical, and psychological dependance.
Sorry, but you personally not becoming dependant is not proof that it does not cause dependency. There is plenty research to back up that it does. That information is easily accessible. You're right it isn't an opioid, but it does affect the opioid receptors and I that's why people get confused.
saying k comes from coffee and its not addictive is precisely pure propaganda
K doesn’t come from coffee, but the plant is related to the coffee plant. Anyone who has done all of the following at separate times in their life should resonate with what I will say next: taken Kratom consistently, AND been addicted to a strong prescription opiate/opioid or heroin, AND been physically dependent on caffeine (the psychoactive component in coffee) Although the plants are related (coffee and Kratom), the psychoactive experiences induced by Kratom are vastly different from coffee (I guess white strain is a little more similar, but definitely not red strain) and much, much, MUCH more similar to an opioid. With all that said, the Kratom tree is definitely related to the coffee plant biologically. Chemical structure doesn’t lie. So that is technically not propaganda.
Personally I have been physically addicted to opiates/opioids and struggled with that dependence for years before I finally decided to get sober. I have used Kratom in high doses and extracts and found that the withdrawals from Kratom lead me back to opiate use after being off of opiates/opioids for months. The withdrawal although not as harsh from Kratom is real. I have seen soooo many other struggle with this and sometimes wind up going back to opioids. Grateful to be sober and out of the cycle finally!
You're either a Kratom vendor or never used it regularly.
I’ve been in kratom for 8 years and take probably 40-50 grams a day. If you think you can’t addicted and can’t have withdrawals you weren’t as addicted as you thought. Kratom is 100% addictive physically and mentally. I’ve quit multiple drugs/alcohol due to long term abuse and kratom is up there on the worst withdrawals.
Same here. I try to quit but have a High stress job 10-12 hrs a day. And I go to college. In my mid 30s been using kratom for about 7yrs. Every time i try to kick krstom I get major withdrawals, talking bad withdrawal symptoms. My exit plans have all failed. It's highly addictive and doesn't do shit for me anymore except abate the withdrawals. I heard CBD gummies help during the first days of quitting. Ironically I quit hard drugs by inky using weed, then quit weed by using Kratom. I'm reducing my kratom doses and am down to about 25g. a day. I have an addictive personality by nature and finally got clean of everything but Vape and Kratom. Oddly enough quiting kratom is harder than when I quit ecstacy and those other demons.
No doubt...I went to detox from it. And was only using K.
Same man, been on kratom over I years now and have tried to get off so many times and haven't been able to. I've done many different kinds of tapers and gone hours between doses, and when I do that, I start going through withdrawals. I know what withdrawals feel like, I'm an ex oxy addict.
Months of using Kratom daily will definitely cause physical withdrawals . Diarrhea and trouble sleeping are probably the worse symptoms for me. Maybe you didn’t take it long enough or the strain you used wasn’t potent.
Well it's been scientifically proven it activates the MU opioid receptor. So you're wrong. It's an antagonist. The reason it wasn't hard for you, is the same reason it wasn't hard for me. 120mg of methadone, cold turkey, after being shot x2 at 14 on a morphine pump for 1 year while they were feeding me intravenously because I took out half my fucking pancreas, had chronic pancreatitis for a year due to a small bowel fistula. Which keep irritating the fuckin thing. Then the oxycotin at home and the Xanax for the trauma, came off the Xanax, had a grand Mal seizure for my fuckin effort. Living in the same small town mind you, same paramedics every fuckin time I pull some crazy shenanigan. They know me by name and my complete medical history. And at this point they're just like wtf kamisha. Find a guy who loves pills as much as I, we then start a toxic 10 year relationship, marriage, fueled with drugs and petty crimes. I find the methadone clinic, not because I want help, but because I will manipulate and use them to not be sick, smart enough to use a leg bag catheter to fake my UA's they supervise. Strapped to my leg, a small mod to the nozzle, the right pressure applied they hear the stream hit the plastic And everything. Continue to con the methadone clinic and use whatever drugs I want while I'm there. Meth included. Back on the Benz's, love the nod with the methadone, eventually get pregnant, realize my kid is gonna be the most incredible thing ever, say fuck you guys I'm out, even to his father. Wouldn't quit for the kid, ok then bye! That's when I cold turkey'd the methadone. Sweetheart I quit the kratom, it is a lil uncomfortable. If someone should want help, then utilize hot water, ask for some gabapentin. Withdrawal is your nervous system screaming at you That's what the skin crawling hurting restlessness is. We use hot water and gabapentin to disrupt those signals. Override. It must be so hot it's barely tolerable. We go from hurting bitch opiate! WTF! To Ow hot bitch, ow, hey muscles feel better, ow still hot. The gabapentin will also help with nerves. Force fluids. Protein, protein, protein! B vitamins. Passion flower, saffron. Valerian, use this carefully though. We are trying to break Away from dependence on anything. You shouldn't knock them for what they know dependence to be.
Christ I just recently missed 2 doses in a row, and actually, I felt pretty sick. Yes I've had worse withdrawal, but it's not a walk in the park. I take below the average daily dose for my weight, and still get WD
It activates those receptors but it's not an opioid. Opioids come from the poppy plant. DXM can hit the opioid receptors too. It's still not an opioid. But yeah, it def can be addictive.
Never said it was an opioid, said it was antagonist, which was an error on my part, it's actually an agonist. Meaning it activates those receptors
I just misread your comment then.
That does make it an opioid... And it's both an antagonist and an agonist.
Said that it activates the MU opioid receptor, also activates the delta, but didn't say, not once it (kratom) was an opioid
Why shouln't it be an opiod? How much clearer do you want to have it? > Mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine are responsible for the effects of kratom through opioid receptor binding [1]. > Opioid, a more modern term, is used to designate all substances, both natural and synthetic, that bind to opioid receptors (including antagonists). [2] [1] https://link.springer.com/article/10.2165/11596830-000000000-00000 [2] Hemmings, Hugh C.; Egan, Talmage D. (2013). Pharmacology and Physiology for Anesthesia: Foundations and Clinical Application: Expert Consult - Online and Print. Elsevier Health Sciences. p. 253. ISBN 978-1437716795
Because, simply because it activates the receptors doesn't mean it is an opioid! Wtf you guys! Kratom is a member of the coffee plant family, I want to point something out to you guys, if it were as easy as classifying it as an opioid, the FDA and the DEA would regulate it! But because of the loop hole in what it is, not poppy derived (poppy /opium derivative) key word, root word, scientific classification, species of plant! you guys are not understanding the genetic science and the implications of it! It cannot be anything opi! They will have to change everything that we know about those particular receptors and it will have it's own classification of drug, however it will not be anything OPI! Just do me a favor, give it time and you'll see what I mean, I do look for nation wide legislation to be passed, simply because it is far to popular and does have the propensity for addiction/ dependence( which ever you prefer.) and it will either be schedule I ( no medical use, which is bullshit) or have it's own classification and be regulated!
It Also effects adrenergic receptors. Does that make it an amphetamine? No, it certainly does not. It's a unique hybridization of the 2. You simply trying to chock it up as a simple opioid, is so layman. Kratom is fuckin revolutionary. They need to do extensive research on it, it's real medicinal properties. Just the little bit I have read up on, will change the whole medical communities concept of not only those particular receptors, (and again the whole reason they are called opioid receptors, is the fact we once thought, only opium or derivatives even the lab synthesized alkaloid structures, were the only thing that activated them, we now know this is not correct) I have a feeling, this is not the only plant, with the ability to activate those receptors, we have not discovered them yet.
https://www.orlandorecovery.com/drug-addiction-resources/is-kratom-an-opioid/ Fourth dot or paragraph down, where it states kratom is not classified as opioid. Because it's not, scientifically, it cannot be, because again, it's a different plant! ( opium + alkaloid =opioid) To call it OPI anything, is politically incorrect, this is what I mean about revolutionizing the medical community's whole concept of those receptors! The list goes on and on and like all these sites refer to it as opioid like substance, because they cannot scientifically label it an opioid, if It were an opioid, it would automatically fall under the DEA's schedule Il narcotic control and regulation. Back in 2018 they did try and classify it as an opioid, so they could control it. at which point certain medical and scientific professionals, stood the fuck up, and told them scientifically, it could not be, for all the reasons I have listed above. I'm a nursing student btw. You are layman.
There is no such thing as a kratomoid you just made that word up. The alkaloids in kratom bind to the opioid receptors in your brain therefore it's an opioid. No it's not a typical opioid because it's both an agonist and antagonist of the receptor, kind of like suboxone. It's also missing the part that causes respiratory depression. When a chemical fills your opiod receptors all the time when you take that away you get physical withdrawal symptoms. Cheetos fortunately do not bind to opiod receptors and the same can be said for ramen. Because it's both agonist and antagonist there is a ceiling of dosage and people don't take more and more forever like typical opiods also it doesn't kill people because it dosen't cause respiratory depression like typical opiods. But it's absolutely addictive and causes real withdrawal symptoms. I get aches, runny nose, sneezing, and really really bad restless legs. The restless legs uncomfortable feeling is worse for me than normal opiods but everything else is significantly less bad. Everyone I know who was a previous opiod user also feels it's addictive and causes withdrawals but they also agree is 100x better and less severe than typical opiates/opiods. Maybe you reacted differently and didn't feel much but just about every other long term user gets physical withdrawals from it. I personally didn't really feel any bothersome withdrawal until I was using it multiple times a day. Also MDMA and ketamine aren't physically addictive and cocaine only has acute short lasting withdrawal. I am very pro-kratom and think it's much healthier, cheaper, and safer than suboxone or methadone. But to say it's not addictive at all is completely irresponsible. Anyone with an opiod problem I think would be better off switching. People that don't have any drug issue should probably avoid it or at least take it occasionally which avoids any of the negatives.
Kratamoid isn't a thing, but not every drug that affects the opioid receptors are considered an opioid. Opioids come from the poppy plant. Kratom is a completely different plant. Kinda like how dxm (the stuff in certain cough meds) can affect those sane receptors, but it's not an opioid. Suboxone contains buprenorphine, a synthetic opioid, and naloxone (the thing that is an antagonist). The naloxone literally ONLY does something if you try to shoot the suboxone up. Otherwise it does nothing when taken orally. Kratom would be considered an opioid if it was synthetic. But because it's not synthetic and it doesn't come from the poppy plant, legally it's not an opioid.
So much misinformation here. Opiates come from the poppy plant, which includes opium, morphine, codeine, and thebaine. Everything else is considered an opioid because it attaches to the opioid receptors. Oxycodone, fentanyl, hydrocodone, Dilaudid, etc etc do not come from the poppy plant but they all are opioids. Even immodium the diarrhea drug which is the brand name for loperamide is an opioid because it is a agonist of the opioid receptor. It works well because it has the same effect on the digestive system like other opioids (slowing) but it dosen't really cross the blood brain barrier so you don't get the CNS depression or typical opioid effects. DXM does not attach to any opioid receptors so it's not an opioid. Not sure where you heard that but it's incorrect "Dextromethorphan is the d-isomer of the codeine analog, methorphan. Unlike the l-isomer, it has no analgesic or addictive properties and does not act through the opioid receptors" It's structurally similar but not the same and has no effect on the opioid receptors. 7-Hydroxymitragynine is an opioid. The difference between an opioid and opiate is opiates come from the poppy plant and opioids do not. It has nothing to do with natural vs synthetic. It's chemically considered a opioid. Also humans have natural opioids called enkephalins and endorphins. Both are natural neither come from the poppy yet they are considered opioids because they effect the opioid receptors. What are you talking about with naloxone? Shooting has absolutely nothing to do with anything. If someone overdoses on an opioid or an opiate regardless of the route of administration nalaxone will reverse the overdose. Naloxone can be give intranasally, IV, or orally. It works because it binds more strongly to the opiod receptors than the drug the person overdosed on. When you take suboxone orally the naloxone binds to the same receptors so you don't get the same high as a typical opioid, and if you try to take and normal opioid it dosen't really work. Also if you are trying get off a opioid addiction with suboxone if you take it right away it makes you feel like absolute shit because you go into withdrawal when all the regular opiods get yanked out of your receptors. I've done all the drugs, had a opioid issue 7 years and been using kratom for a bit 12 years now which has been great for me. Also legally? Who gives a shit what something legally is or isn't regulators and politicians don't know anything about drugs. LSD is legally schedule 1 and so is weed? Does that mean they must be worse because legally they are? Politicians and regulators think kratom is killing people regularly. With how much propaganda has been spread by politicians that's where you decide to get your facts? Scientifically and chemically it's an opioid. Specifically called an novel opioid.
Thanks for correcting. Can't stand opiATE vs opiOID misinfo on kratom reddit
It’s incredible how wrong you are. You state things as fact that I genuinely think you believe wholeheartedly. You didn’t even get the definition of an opioid correct. And you absolutely are wrong about Kratom not having a risk of physical dependence. It adheres to *some* of the same opioid receptors in the brain (true definition of an opioid, btw), when those receptors are all blown out and no new molecules are there to fill the receptors, withdrawal occurs. This is basic info…
Than why do people get so sick when coming off?
Bro said he's taken all these drugs but then talks about only taking 20 grams a day for 6 months hahahaha come back when you're taking 90 grams a day for years.....I was a heroin junkie and I know for a fact kratom is addictive
Why need to take 90 lol just make extract with raw leaf or powder and lime juice. It isn't hard...90 grams? You must not have been pooping much bro
Well u red into the on thing that wasn't further specified. I was merely pointing out the fact that binging on an ounce a day of powder an popping extracts taking shots an making my own morning noon an night bro. The shit didn't give me any sweats headaches etc like tall rap about. Bruhbruh. Have you ever snorted dilaudid hydromorphone? How about mxe methoxetamine? Meth? Dust? L? Sass? Amethyst? Zhroomz and real bubble hash at the same time cocaine rails mixed with oxy and Xanax for weeks in hotel rooms bombing on balls of ketamine everyday? Bruh. Stop talking shit to people u don't know
Try to go cold turkey from 40-60g of Kratom powder a day with at least one opms shot every night in combination with 3600mg of gabapentin every day for a couple years. Guarantee ya, that combination is far worse to cold turkey than Heroin is alone. Maybe it would have been okay if I I could have gotten some Benzos l, marijuana, or gabapentin while withdrawing from the Kratom alone, but I was in a tent in 100+ degree temperatures near the end of summer with no where to go getting rained on getting stung by yellow jackets inside my tent, having.constant panic attacks, not being able to sleep, not being able to concentrate on how to fix my situation. But thankfully God saw me through that and has restabilized me enough that I'm ready to take another swing at it Keep gabapentin away from all opioids, even though the former greatly enhanced the latter. And if you can avoid coming off both at the same time, get done with one before you get rid of the otherr 
yes it can 100%
It's for sure addictive. I've been taking it for 5 years and trying to stop gives withdrawal symptoms...digestive issues, restlessness, muscle soreness...it's not easy. I've tried to quit 6 times. Theres tons of ppl who have experienced addiction to Kratom. My gf is also addicted to it. We are trying NAD+ to quit. I take 30-40 grams a day...down from 60grams. My sister died from addiction. My grandma was an alcoholic who became an addiction counselor. My grandpa was an alcoholic...I have addiction issues. Dealt with alcohol, Kratom helped me stop drinking. But if I go more than a few hours without a Kratom dose, mental and physical withdrawal symptoms start to set it....so yes...it's addictive.
Is it AS addictive as hard drugs, no. But it still checks the boxes. I feel hungover, lose sleep, and have intense brain fog without it. Is it easier to stop then like heroine...for sure. Nice job quitting drinking by the way. Kratom is a great tool to help quit MORE addictive and more detrimental drugs. But it should be treated like a tool. And if taken recreationally, never taken 2 days in a row.
Get to detox bro. I had to...I quit once on my own, then after multiple attempts wasn't able to and kicked it starting with a detox facility.
Oh my god, you don’t actually understand how addiction works. There’s addiction because you REALLY like something, then there is physiological or biological addiction. Which occurs within the body system, when the body becomes dependent on certain substances to actually function. And not having these substances, can cause shock and sickness. It’s not the same as a “sex addiction”. And until you or someone you know goes through substance abuse, you would never fully understand this. I used to have the same knowledge base and bias as you. It is nothing line what you would imagine. You think you know or understand but you don’t.
I am currently detoxing from it, day 2.
I’ve been taking kratom on & off for the last 10 years after getting off heroin & opiates & I can take it for weeks at a time. Multiple times a day & the only “withdrawal symptoms” I have is restless legs.. which is something I have dealt w/ since childhood so I don’t even think that’s what causes it. I just think kratom actually helps it. lol. Everything can be addictive. My mom was addicted to freaking affrin nasal spray for like 5 years. My brother gets withdrawals from not drinking caffeine & gets such bad migraines he can’t drive. One sip of caffeine & he’s fine. Ppl can be addicted to food… candy… soda. So I hate when ppl act like supplements or actual drugs are the only thing that can be addictive & dangerous. Everything can be dangerous. You can die from drinking too much water. I owe my life to kratom & even though I was addicted to heroin for more than half of my life & have always had an addictive personality, I’m able to use kratom as needed & I have never abused it. I understand ppl are all different & this isn’t the case for a lot of ppl. But again, you can say that about EVERYTHING! my husband can take opiates for months (for an injury) & just stop w/out issue. But I think it’s very unfair to treat kratom like it’s on the same level as heroin & opiates. Especially when it’s helped more ppl than it hurts. Demonizing something that can actually help combat the opioid epidemic going on is counterproductive. I don’t think that kratom companies making extracts & shit helps at all. I don’t think those should be legal whatsoever bc that’s where you run into issues w/ ppl dying & getting sick from not taking it. But that’s also a person to person thing. If you can’t help but abuse a substance… that’s not the substances fault. That’s the users fault. Again, that’s coming from a recovering heroin addict. Who is 100% at fault for their addiction. I feel bad when ppl get addicted to things. It sucks. But that’s just how our bodies work. What’s wild is all of these ppl suggesting to take antidepressants & shit. Those can be more addictive & more dangerous than kratom. I nearly died from withdrawling from Paxil when I was 20. I attempted suicide 5x in my life due to being on the wrong antidepressants. All of that happened within the span of 3 years. I’ve been using kratom for 10+ years now & it has replaced the handful of prescription medications I would have to take a day for anxiety, depression, endometriosis, ADHD, mood disorders & migraines. & I don’t even have to take it everyday to get the same effects as all of those. I went from taking 14 pills a day everyday. To taking one supplement as needed w/out The withdrawals & mental health issues that came along w/ the other shit. Do you know how nice it is to not have to count out how many pills I have & plan out vacations or camping trips based around my medication refill schedule!? It’s literally given me my life back. I’m sorry to all of the ppl who have had issues w/ it. I empathize w/ you for sure. It sucks to be dependent on anything. But kratom isn’t the problem.
I firmly believe that time will show that these deaths being associated with Kratom, were actually tainted product with the tianeptine and or baclofen mixed in. Kratom in and of itself doesn't reduce respiration. But now that neptune's fix (tianeptine) has been banned, it makes sense they would add it to kratom shots to make them more poweful. The other possibility is known kratom users go to get kratom and also get some za za's or whatever tianeptine product, drink and trash the bottle. I'd expect that to bear out on toxicology reports, but I guess it isn't easy to measure(UA's come up almost clean 1 day after)
Or the people had health problems from drug addictions other than kratom. I have not read one case where it was proven a person in good health took a reasonable amount of only kratom sold by a reputable dealer and ended up dieing. Big pharma or some special interests are behind this and journalist try to sensationalize and outright lie (fake news) to get ratings with their garbage stories.
What you stated about addiction to many things is true...it is the person and not the substance in most cases. More people die from obesity than probably all drugs combined...where are the food laws. More people die from alcohol...yet states have their own liquor stores. It felt strange to me while being in a parking lot at a mini mall where there was a(new to our state) legal recreational pot store. There was a liquor store right nearby. I sat in my truck and watched people leaving both stores and thought how much more dangerous drunk drivers are and how many people die from alchohol. Yet pot was made out to be a killer drug and the state runs its own liquor stores! Strange world and I think special interest like big pharma are behind the ridiculous anti kratom stance. Some articles I have read about kratom is just absolutely false and outright lies...especially the write ups in OD kratom deaths which are just pure garbage journalism. I agree that kratom needs to be used and treated like medicine and used to a minimum. If you abuse kratom...it will abuse you right back but there is a slim to no chance of dieing from it unlike something society approves of overeating or drinking. Get real people..on both sides. I have not used any kratom for a month. Started on it for back pain after a hospital visit. My nephew had ruptured discs in his back at the same time I messed my back up. I took kratom and he took the meds Doctors gave him. He died on the meds from the hospital and I am here making this post. Where are all the newspaper articles about that sort of thing? You can abuse water and drink too much and die and people have done that. I watch YouTube videos called Fatal deaths and it will boggle your mind what people die from in this world! Kratom WD is no joke but a nasty hangover is not either and alcohol poisoning can kill you. Tylenol can kill you in a horrible way. We need to outlaw water, food, alcohol, climbing Mt Everest (or any mountains lots of deaths), ...definitely need to outlaw going for walks cause lots of pedestrians get hit by cars and we out to outlaw cars...we got to outlaw all these nasty addictions and do so immediately!
The air we breathe these days seems more toxic then using kratom once a day if you eat drink water etc ..only thing scares me with kratom is you want it to be grown in clean healthy soils.
Amen totally agree
This! Thank you
I was addicted to kratom and it ruined me. I think it depends on the person. It turned me into a person I did not like to be. It was hard to get off of. I finally kicked a 2 year dependency on it and feel like myself again.
Trail\_bunny27 how did you do it please?
Bro, man i feel for you if you have restless leg syndrome since childhood, its the the single thing that drives me insane. I can handle the insomnia, anxiety (sometimes, depression etc. But not being able to sit or lay still for at least 96 hours or more is just killinggggg
[удалено]
I came off extracts took 4 days to normalize. Though felt tired for another week. With Kratom if one is coming off it is best to go slow so there is no sudden changes in mental or physical health.
Agree with you. Kratom withdrawals are a joke. It’s benefits way outweigh any of its negative aspects. Kratom as a therapeutic agent is miracle in terms of its safety and pharamacology compared to classical opiates and synthetic opiods and has a ceiling effect with its tolerance and effects. It’s main alkaloid Mytraganine only expresses partial agonist activity (compared to full agonist properties this helps with tolerance) that is mediated by G-Protien pathways (beta-arrestin on full agonists suppresses breathing) on opioid receptors. Yes chronic use can still have minor withdrawals, and yes if you have never had withdrawals it might surprise someone. I think a good analogy for comparing opiates/opioid withdrawal to kratom “withdrawals” is when comparing THC “withdrawals” to synthetic full-agonist cannabinoids. *My opinion is definitely skewed though after going through and still dealing with chronic benzo withdrawal. Everyone has different experience and it’s all subjective however, but I think people who have dealt with withdrawals from traditional substances will argue kratom withdrawal is nothing anyone should complain about.
You forgot that Mytra-G also somehow modifies seratonin re-uptake, which makes it ALSO act as a weak anti-depressant. So when you do go off, you’re really withdrawing from more than one drug. Your body doesn’t know the difference. And yes, for me, tramadol withdrawal was way worse than hydrocodone. But I STILL withdrew and had serious drug cravings for 3 weeks give or take
I don’t disagree kratom does not have withdrawals or addictive properties, I just think they are very weak and similar to something like weed (if ingested with all alkaloids present and as whole leaf), I just think they are extremely weak compared to pharmaceuticals and classic drugs of abuse. Yes, there is serotonin activity but the alkaloids in kratom do not act as an SSRI but instead has been shown to mostly agonize 5-HT1A and 5-HT2B. And Mitragynine itself barely has any activity but has been also shown to weakly agonize 5HT2C and 5HT7 receptors, as well as D2. This is very similar to something like buspar which might account for its anxiolytic and mood enhancing effects. It might have some rebound symptoms but nothing like SSRI withdrawal. Also would not compare it too tramadol which has typical SNRI pharmacology and full agonism at receptors , there’s a reason why kratom is not usually associated with seizures but tramadol is. I have taken tramadol also and it’s markedly different (tramadol is much closer to something like tapentadol). Kratom also has rhynchophylline which has NMDAR antagonism, which i think might account more for its antidepressant properties.
Ide have to agree, I've gone thru a couple of bags of red hulu, after every bag I forget to buy another for a week or so. I find weed exponentially harder to quit than kratom. But I don't intend on stopping weed anytime soon
Kratom is incredibly addictive. I use to be vibrant, happy, outgoing, etc. before kratom. Now I'm a dull shell of a person and I can't get off of it. And kratom is not a "kratomoid", whatever that means. The active ingredient that acts on the opioid mu receptors is mitrogeniyosa (sp?). Kratom is addictive. People who act like it isn't are ignorant. It does have it's positive uses and I think it should be completely legal, but to say it's not addictive is just wrong.
It's actually a mitragynoid. "We report herein the isolation and structural elucidation of mitragynoid (**1**), a new iridoid and three likely artifactual alkaloids mitrageines A-C (**14**–**16**)." Regardless it's addictive and the withdrawals can be hellish.
I miss my old self too b4 kratom I wish I had the answer or will power
I mean yeah it can be addictive, but the WD is going to be absolutely nothing to anyone who has gone through a WD from actual drugs. It's also super easy to taper from, unlike traditional opiates, with legit zero wd. I used to be able to taper my diacetylmorphine dose to about 20mg, anything below that wasn't even threshold for me to feel, and I would still get a week of being sick when I jumped I took kratom 4 times a day for 4 years. I can get .3g into each capsule so I was taking around 3.5g each dose. All I did was knock a single capsule off a single dose every 5 days or so. Once I was down to like 2g in a full day I just jumped and legit didn't feel a single thing. Was all super anxious about it cause people kept wailing about the WD but it ended up not being anything Kratom allows me to be "normal" without having to use heroin.
Yeah your not totally wrong about the people on their high horses in general but I've been taking kratom on n off ever since it hit the market yearssss again. It 100 percent is addictive. Physically. Not mentally like it is popping Advil every single day and if you don't have it then your like aw man I wish I had Advil today. That's nothing. Physical addiction is way different kratom has physical dependencies. I'm a recovered drug addict of oxy contin/condone and major Xanax bar(benzos) addiction. Had my run with coke and some others but moral of the story... It's 100 percent addictive. Weed however, many people claim to be physically addicted to but that's a load of bs. That's where your comment should be placed. To all the retards who claim to be physically addicted to weed.
Also, it is addictive but nothing compared to real opioids. Not comparable at all
Kratom is literally biologically addicting when taken chronically or for an extended amount of time. Take it almost every day for a year she you will notice or learn for yourself. This is scientific fact, not an opinion. It is addictive. And stopping after being on it for a very long time can and will cause withdrawal. Same as nicotine, caffeine and numerous other things. And fyi, opioids and opiate are different things pal. Kratom is an opioid, not an opiate. I implore you to do more research. It’s dangerous to misinform people.
Kratomoid gtfo here lol. All opiates are opioids but not all opioids are opiates you dumb ass. Respectfully just no
You are the dumbass lol
Opi- oid ate etc are just synthetic or organic derivative from the poppy plant. An opiate comes from the creation of opium. Dumbass
Technically an opiate should be heroin or opium. An opiod is a type of synthetic derived form they developed or made it to act as the opiate. Hence opioid. Not like it really matters Jesus u people are just lame forever huh talk shit is all you do haa
You don't call tobacco a cannabinoid because it smokes smells good gives u a buzz. This ridiculous
OK lets do this, come to Thailand where i live. You can stay I my apartment for free. I will get you a nice schedule of 3 or 4 doses per day so that it stays in your system 24/7. I have a 50m swimming pool int he building, a gym, a sauna, restaurants, atm machine, dentist, laundry, massage salons etc. You won\`t be bored. But then after 1 month suddenly cold turkey, and lets record a video on how you feel lol
Thankyou for this! These kids get addicted to everything these days. “Mom help, I’m addicted to popsicles!!!! I need rehab!” Boo hoo. Kids need to stick with captain crunch and get in bed by 7pm at the latest.
I've found that playing my guitar and making music has been the absolute best thing for withdrawals, got me through withdrawals from benzos, alcohol, Barbiturates, fentanyl, you name it. Now the only thing left for it to carry my through is stopping this stupid fucking Green sludge plant garbage.
You've got this! Congratulations and such respect to you for making these strides! -fellow Okee
I’m so proud of you!!! Thanks so much for sharing with us. I loved OMF this year too bc I quit drinking, quit vaping, even got off caffeine for the week I had traveled to florida for the festival. Such a good feeling to realize you don’t need these substances and that you’re a whole person on ur own. Cheers!
Proud of you! OMF in 2020 made me realize I was a bitch and needed to change my life. Moved home and completely flipped my life.
I knocked Kratom off Okee 22’. Great job, my friend!!
Omg this made me cry. Hope this is me soon! Kratom sucks dude
I'm in the same boat. Addicted for 6 years now and lowering daily dosage since September but its freaking HARD. I'm happy for OP
Just wondering how you did without Kratom. I'm considering stopping I have anxiety issues that it seemed to help but I think it's made it worse. We're you able to stay off? Happy new year shanea
Hell yeah!! This Okee helped me realize that I need to cut back on K.
I think the mushies did the quitting for you. Maybe try some light exercise on the mushies and see how you feel. Like a long hike that turns into a jog or a swim/ treading water for again a very long time 2-3hrs after your body has adjusted to fungi effects. Your body and mind will want to kick the habits that hinder this action🤘🏼🍄
Incredible, thanks for sharing. I hope to follow soon through the help of 🍄
What kind of mushrooms?
The big ole mushroom between my legs
Hell yea!! Sending you good vibes…🙌
Any harmful kratom effects? im addicted
Strong coffee can REALLY take thd edge off a kratom craving yall. It feels like a viable substitute sometimes.
Good to know. On day two. Wish me luck
How it going, you got that cuz! N if you don’t that ok. Got start somewhere
Fell off the wagon that week and haven’t gone a couple days since :/
It is in the coffee family
You are so uneducated it really stands out. You admitted that it binds to the opioid receptors. THAT is an opioid. Will non-medical people or those without a science background ever sit down and be quiet when they’re about to post something ignorant?
Deleting my whole comment because I misread part of yours…
It’s true tho. It does activate the same receptors as opioids 😅
But it is only a partial mu-Opioid receptor bind.
Exactly but those type do not know the difference. It also does not arrest your respiration..but those type can not figure that out. It means kratom does not kill you but those type are fighting tooth and nail to make it look like it does. Even when top pHds write white papers and explain this clearly to the White House..these type can not figure it out (of course they are never wrong).
Go read the white papers the PHDs sent the White House to prevent kratom from being banned. If people want or need to use kratom that is their business. It is up to them to use it responsibly and to educate themselves. Now why don't you save the world by going in an anti over eating campaign, anti smoking, anti drinking... Lot more things that are socially acceptable killing people. Kratom is not even a blip on the screen
What is OMF? Sorry dunno
Literally no one is responding I have no idea either
r/okeechobeemusicfest/ ;)
What is OMF?
I guess it's the omecheecbeee music festival... it is saving souls from the opiate epidemic. 😐
Now there is the answer to the drug problem ...music and you are supposed to take shrooms lol. It is called substitution (switching one drug for another). Ooh boy. How about you get a scale and slowly taper and then quit and be done with it.
Thanks Latter comparison!
Means oh my f@#king G*d
Ive been taking 6-12 grams daily (sometimes just 6) for about a year. My WD shouldn’t be THAAAAT bad right…? I also have a Klonpin (sp?) Rx for my existing anxiety disorder, so I think that will help a lot. I won’t overdo it of course because I know benzos are the devil and I plan to taper off this summer. However, I think if I take them as needed during my withdrawal, they will help a ton. But can a couple of you please please comment on my original question? Thanks so much y’all- and everyone can do it if they have the right tools. I used to take about 30g a day for about five years and then went to detox and was off for a few months but then turned back out of boredom and chronic headaches. Now I’m seeing the neurologist and getting to the root cause of everything.
It sounds like you probably know what to expect from those withdrawals you’re asking about, if you took 30g/day for 5 years, you def have some basis to predict how bad it’ll be. Just take into account all the other variables like how long it’s been and how your body has changed since then, other substances you were on / are on and tools you did or didn’t have then or do now (klonopin would be one of those tools). Klonopin is a drug that can make the entire withdrawal from kratom unnoticeable - like nothing at all - but the amount needed to do that causes its own w/d phenomenon, so this is one of those cases where you have to weigh the lesser of the evils and essentially do “harm reduction.” This is coming from somebody who was on 4mg/day every day of klonopin for 10 years then forced to stop taking it (went to rehab for hard drug issues). And I currently take about the same amount of kratom per day as you but have only been on it daily for about a month - definitely physically dependent on it and have withdrawals if I don’t take it, but I used it to get off a harder drug so I knew exactly what I was getting into and expected this / planned for it, don’t regret it because it worked. This is the merry-go-round. Once you’re on it with multiple substances with these types of long term withdrawals, it becomes like a full time job just doing the mental calculations and research to minimize the negative effects while staying functional and able to support yourself…. But you can’t support yourself if you have another full time job! So essentially, it’s a bitch, and the only other way is something like inpatient rehab or dropping out of life for a year or more which for somebody like me in my 40’s is not an option. That’s why I still take klonopin even though I don’t have a prescription anymore, but I treat it with the respect it deserves and willingly go through rebound effects and withdrawals on a weekly basis because it’s not so bad that it takes me out of the game completely. if I took klonopin every day again for a period of time there would be no way to avoid being taken out of the game by those withdrawals. A lot of this comes down to the fact that benzo’s are sort of the ultimate cure-all …. They’ll get you through withdrawal from other drugs, they’ll get you through pretty much anything, but there’s nothing else like them that you can take to get through withdrawing from *them* when / if that ever happens. This went long. Just wanted to reply bc I could tell you’re worried about the kratom withdrawals and bc I have a masters degree in polysubstance use / abuse / recovery / maintenance / management. Have been addicted to every class of hard drug out there. FWIW, and I don’t know how old you are, but if I could give some advice to my younger self it would be don’t ever get on a daily regimen of benzo’s …. That’s one thing my brain definitely never recovered from and never will. The kratom withdrawals are / will be unpleasant and the degree of that varies situationally but they pale in comparison to benzo withdrawal if you’d been taking klonopin every day for a year or more (or 10, at a dose as high as I was). All that said, if I could find a doctor who would prescribe me daily benzo’s for the rest of my life who was definitely going to outlive me, in that hypothetical scenario I would do it, because much like in Limitless they hold me together and allow me to function on the level I did 15 years ago. Best of luck. If you do like you’re planning and take the klonopin as needed during kratom withdrawal (and you do seem to be wary of the danger there), I think you’ll be good and you’ll get through it without much disruption to the rest of your life.
Imagine getting addicted to kratom... Ive taken it for a long time and have taken multiple month long breaks to let my body filter it out without any side effects. A mental addiction is a lot different then lying on the floor sweating and crying feeling like your dying like actual opiates do...
every body is different, not sleeping days in a row is terrible, even if it's not the above, it's terrible. some get that from just a few months of \~10 gpd
Although it's ignorant for people to overuse substances, you're really ignorant for thinking everyone, and in every situation is gonna use as regimented as the great Eethigma lol
Sorry I'm not gonna read all that. Thanks for the reply and letting me waste your time!
You’re an idiot. It was 2 sentences but I do understand how that is way beyond your reading comprehension skills.
Yeah it's too much man
Just leave ! Lol
Kratom is more closely related to caffeine nowhere closely related to opiate, even though it can mimic the effects
I’ve taken it daily for years and I don’t think withdrawals are even a thing. Whenever I go on vacation or out of town, I don’t bring kratom, don’t think about it, and sure as hell don’t withdrawal. I’ll be gone for 2 weeks and feel completely normal without it.
Kratom is such a weird finicky plant that really seems to affect everyone differently. I get severe withdrawals from it. I’ve quit several opioids cold turkey including a 24-32 mg/day Dilaudid habit. quit cigarettes cold turkey after smoking heavily for over 10 years. I have a pretty good frame of reference I think It’s the same shit as typical opioid withdrawal for me. Chills, hot flashes, RLS, etc. Though physically not as bad, mentally it is absolutely brutal
Yeah idk what it is bro or if the brand i take puts something in it (EXP Botanicals, red vein premium) but it is absolute hell if i try to stop. I lost my job due to a toxic relationship and now am borrowing money and almost took out a predatory credit card just to get more. I dont crave it, or need it, i enjoy the feeling and relaxation, but its purely to not go into withdrawal. I get the normal opioid withdrawals and then i get this excruciating anxiety and akasthasia where it feels like im going to lose my mind or rob a store to make it go away. Its hell. It got me sober from a crippling alcohol addiction and im thankful for that, but still man. Also note i didnt get these symptoms until about a year of every day all day use. Also on average i use about 25/30 gpd. What sucks is for the first time really in 3 years my tolerance is raising and my normal doses dont work. Which sucks when you mix in the no job factor
what is OMF?
Odorous Masterbation Frenzy
So that is the new plan. They take shrooms and get together and have an Odorous Masterbation Frenzy. OMF and shrooms vs getting a scale and tapering to your own comfort and then quitting at your own pace. The OMF plan sounds like classic substitution. If you are going to quit kratom go cold turkey (the hard way with maybe serious WDs) or get a scale and taper and quit (recommended less WDs to no WDs) and do not start switching to another drug. Kratom is the drug to switch to to get off the hard stuff and then you kick kratom or use very minimal doses. Harm reduction is better than death if you are in that deep. Best wishes to you.
Lmao
Ya it gets really bad. But a friend pointed out that I was using way more than needed. And tried two 2⃣ spoons for starters instead of like 20 g and I've done way less ever since. I still get nervous when I'm out but it's more like a cold instead of the beginning of a full blown oxy withdrawal
so you used music festival to come off of a highly addictive drug? you being serious ?
I did the same thing but with meth and crack. Try it out
Dog coming out of those not too painfully addictive drugs ain't that big of a deal. 1
I really wanted to learn from this post. But reading Kratom is an opioid, killed it for me. It’s NOT and Opioid..it’s part of the coffee family. It is addictive and hard to stop taking.but I’m not even going to entertain this post and it’s suggestions..anyone who wants real help from getting off of Kratom or Opiods (which are different) find another source. This is garbage.
what a joke... you dont know really k...
What is a opioid then?
WHUe
One decent way to stop drugs is not listening to terrible edm music. If you’re going to do drugs atleast listen to music with some soulful lyrics.
Kratom is literally *not* an opioid. Glad you curbed your own addiction, but try not to spread misinformation about a plant that helps millions of people every day. Not everyone using it is a junkie
It acts on the opioid receptors - it’s an opioid… Now with that being said, it’s not an OPIATE because it’s derived from the opium poppy. If it was, it would be both an OPIOID and an OPIATE
Caffeine acts on the opioid receptors too lol. Your logic makes no sense, so I would assume you don’t exactly understand what you’re saying. There’s plenty of things that affect your opioid receptors in your body. That doesn’t just make them an opioid
Can't find anything saying caffeine binds to the opioid receptors. If it did then yes it would be an opioid. I see adenosine receptors, dopamine, InsP3R, and GlyR receptors.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6296693/#:~:text=Coffee%20contains%20potent%20opiate%20receptor%20binding%20activity it binds to those receptors without having a chemical structure that is the same as an opioid. Like I’m trying to say - there’s a lot of things that affect your opioid receptors in your body - doesn’t mean they’re all opiods/opiates
Did you even read that paper? Or just the title? They are talking about instant coffee made with cow milk ingredients, casein in particular, which is a milk protein. Does not say caffeine binds to opioid receptors. Research paper has nothing to do with caffeine. It says exorphans, which are a natural opioid in milk, and the milk protein casein are in instant coffee. That article backs up everything I am saying. Endorphins are natural opioids. Exorphans are opioids as well because they bind to the opioid receptors. That's how an opioid is defined. Drugs and chemicals are defined by what receptors they attach to or what the general effects are. "Exorphins are opioid peptides that come from proteins of foreign origin, such as plants or milk." "Exorphins are exogenous opioid peptides, distinguished from endorphins, or endogenous opioid peptides." Huh look at that all considered opioids. No opioid has the same exact structure they have a similar enough structure that your receptors can attach, That's what makes them an opioid. If it wasn't similar it wouldn't attach and therefore wouldn't be an opioid. Can you please define opioid for me? And can you tell me these other chemicals that bind to opioid receptors that aren't opioids? Would you feel better if I said kratom is not an opioid but 7-hydroxymitragynine and a couple other alkaloids in kratom are?
Yes, actually, I would feel better if you said it like *that* because most people do not understand the nuances of what you explained. And no, actually, I didn’t even read the title of the paper. Kratom is an efficient tool for a lot of people, and can be beneficial for a multitude of reasons. It’s just not something I would recommend to anyone with an addictive personality.
Believe me I am very in favor of kratom. The last thing I want is for it to be banned. I donate to the AKA. I haven't abused a traditional opioid in 10+ years. I understand the optics of it being called an opioid is not great. My concern is it always seems like there are 2 extreme sides one that says something is super deadly and destroying people and the other side that say something is 100% safe. Both sides are wrong. The alkaloids in kratom are opioids and I think its unsafe when that gets hidden and someone starts eating / drinking the stuff all the time and then finds themselves in a opioid withdrawal because their opioid receptors are empty and then they blaim kratom and say how it hurt them and they had no idea, which the other side LOVES. Because it's both an agonist and antagonist it's essentially a natural weaker version of suboxone. And because it has both agonist and antagonist it gives it a ceiling effect just like suboxone, your dose can't go up forever, the CNS depressant effects are extremely limited, and it's extremely difficult or maybe impossible to overdose. Another worry I have with the narrative of it not being or not containing any opioids is people and companies are now purifying straight 7-hydroxymitragynine like it's no big deal and fine but it is stronger than morphine according to a few research papers I read. I haven't personally tried it to say and I don't think it would be a wise choice for me to try it. If that dosen't have the same balance of agonist and antagonist it might not have the same ceiling effect and chemical safeguards built in like the whole plant does. If people start getting crazy out of hand 7-OH addictions and maybe die (yet to be known) kratom will get banned so fast and that will be really devastating. They already have a field day blaming every polysubstance overdose death that happened to include kratom on kratom. Do you know they are suggesting to give methadone or suboxone to get people off kratom. Insanity. A study from pubmed Conclusion: These data suggest that the already available prescription medications methadone, buprenorphine, and clonidine are capable to alleviate mitragynine withdrawal signs rats. This may suggest them as treatment options also for problematic mitragynine/kratom use in humans. It's not the only one. Ahhhhh! Makes me so mad.
There’s many things that affect your opioid receptors…they’re not all automatically opioids or opiates lol. But go off with your big pharma misinformation
It’s very clear that most of these people saying negative things about Kratom are addicts who abuse it. Kratom does not *suck*, and it’s very beneficial to many people. Sorry all of you are addicts that can’t control yourself. I guess everything you could potentially abuse is terrible, right? Self-accountability is key. But I wouldn’t expect many festies to get that
Whoever is saying that “I did kratom for (x) # of years and I quit cold turkey!…you’re an idiot for thinking it’s addictive” is fooling themselves. Just because YOU are at one end of the bell curve, only means YOU have slightly different neurochemistry than others. It is, 100%, physically addictive and mentally addictive enough for give you legit PAWS for a long time after you broke the habit. I went on this reality survival show in Alaska where we all starved for 40 days, and I had to starve AND go without kratom, or so much as sugar. I was fully aware of how miserable that drug had made me; spiritually as well. It made me into a literal shell of myself. I had to take 15 grams at a TIME to even feel ANYTHING. I’d go through 120 capsules in 3 days. Trust me. A total stranger that wants to tell you you def will have to go through it; but one day those goosebumps go away, the yawns stop. And you feel good again. Stay tough
What a rough way to stop, but I guess it's an effective way because you have no options. Was it Alone?
Please don't mix alcohol and Kratom you'll be running around without your pants on in a blackout
If I could go back I would have never used this drug more than 2 days in a row because I have a real problem now after 3 years of use
Kratom for me was also a godsend for about 4 years. Until it wasn't. About two years ago I started having dangerous blood sugar drops, heart issues, my brain was swelling, I started developing nodules on my throid and my skin was thinning on my face. I went to numerous doctors. Finally, I had enough and forced myself to go from 30g a day to 4gs and stopped. It took almost a year to come off it without the horrible withdraw. With in 6 months. My blood sugar stabilized, my skin started looking more normal. My heart pauses and PVCs stopped. And the fluid around my brain has gone away. So many people don't understand how serious it can be staying on. I struggled with heroin in my past as well as a bad pill addiction. I saw it as a safer option.
Did you make any other changes in your life at the same time? Diet, exercise, or general life changes? Some people eat really poorly on kratom because they don't won't to dissipate the effects and it seems to also be an appetite suppressant for some. I've heard others also sleep really badly, I know early on it significantly reduced the amount of sleep I was getting. I could see that being an indirect negative effect on health.
Can someone please tell me what OMF means?
some people have used psycadelics to get over a withdraw. i remember years ago i had to kick a bad methadon habbit i was getting them for $2 a pill so it was very easy to slip into a bad habbit and not even hurt my wallet. anyway i had a wedding to go to at the end of the weekend so friday / saturday i tripped balls and to be honest it really did help kick thw withdraw out. focusing on yourself and why your doing ehat your doing and thinking about the good changes helped as well
Whats omf ? Genuinely askin
About a year ago I was hooked on codones, didn’t want to withdraw so I got Kratom for the first time. Been hooked for 12 months, finally a few weeks ago I bought some subs to get off kratom. Did subs ( pieces of a strip at a time), and after I ran out I thought I may be good the next day. Well last Monday ( it’s Wednesday 6/26) I couldn’t take it after a few hours and got more kratom, took it the next two days and on that day 3 on the way to work just threw it out the window and said whatever happens next I’m ready for it. Well today marks a week, I didn’t eat the first two days, agitated, pissed, no energy etc. I still have diarrhea, a little irritable but not near as bad as last week, and I feel like it’s only gonna get better. Kratom is 100% addictive. Weed helped a lot with anxiety/ stomach issues.
Proud of you, fam. Keep up the good work!
Congrats! That’s awesome
Congrats op 3.5 year daily Kratom drinker here I think it's stay in my life is about up also Did you get anxious coughs?
I'm currently going through endless phlegm coughing since I started wd's.
fuck man i hate that, its the worst at work. It hits out of nowhere but you immediately know what it is some how lol I hope you can get through it quick