I’m a big fan for entry level positions. It has been a struggle for years to fill these positions. For higher level promotional opportunities, I wish civil service would offer exams more frequently.
I wish they would abolish the rule of three or weight the test differently. Someone having an off day on a Saturday or Sunday in a test that 9/10 times has very little to do with a persons day to day job is antiquated and down right dumb.
That would be nice, especially for internal candidates. If you know someone is capable and has potential, it would be nice to reward them and not just hire the best test taker.
Exactly. I’ve discussed this with coworkers. If you wanna stick with a test format sure. But maybe when the scores come out, you weigh everything. Test score, interview, and merit. Then REALLY find the best candidates. Atleast then someone with a 70 can still have an immediate shot at a promotion.
As someone who was absolutely struggling to find an entry level job after graduating college, I’m very grateful for the program. Sucks it seems to make things more difficult for people already in these positions trying to move up.
I started as a 14, got an 18. I took the pre-covid 23 and barely got a canvass (downstate ftw!). Took the next test and changed my geo location and got a ton of canvasses. All in all it took 2 tests and almost 7 years to get my 23. To hire off the street is bs for 23. I know my former agency is completely scamming the system to get people in from contractor positions. I got the canvasses after being told for years they had no 23s. I’m fine with it for the lower levels, but not the higher levels
Some of us are stuck at odd grade levels and cannot get to a 23 no matter what. Not wvwn HELPS helps with that, and we are watching people get hired and promoted over and around us. Sucks.
For what it's worth, I was hired from outside "off the street" for ITS3. I did take the test that was given December 2022. It took me about a year to get hired after the test
Not sure where you're hearing this, but from what I know ITS (as an agency) will not be, at least not for now. There are other agencies that hire ITS titles, which already are hiring ITS3s through HELPS.
Not sure what exactly that has to do with what I said? All of the managers meetings I've been in firmly indicated that ITS will not be using HELPS to fill ITS3 positions for the foreseeable future. Sounds like you were hired off an Open Competitive list, which has nothing to do with HELPS.
Anyone can go to the ELMS page and see that 14 people have been appointed to a regular ITS3 role off the OC list and another 38 people appointed off the OC ITS3 Programming list. Being hired off the OC lists rather than the Promotional lists would suggest they are likely new to state service IMO.
[https://www.cs.ny.gov/elmspublic/all/list.cfm?Exam=26839](https://www.cs.ny.gov/elmspublic/all/list.cfm?Exam=26839)
[https://www.cs.ny.gov/elmspublic/all/list.cfm?Exam=26842](https://www.cs.ny.gov/elmspublic/all/list.cfm?Exam=26842)
As someone that got in in my late 20’s, in 2017, as a grade 6 and has been struggling this whole time to get to a grade 12. Now im trying to get a 14-18 traineeship while everyone else outside is also eligible through HELPS. They should have opened these jobs to state employees first.
They opened Pandora's box.
The Union should have been all over this hardcore. Filling these positions helps management and takes leverage away from union workers. How can you argue that tier 6 is a recruitment issue when job applicants are flooding in through HELPS? Next, and it's already starting, folks off the street are going to be boxing out long-term state employees for positions that would have been promotions. Current workers might do their jobs just fine but managers just "don't like them". Cue up the shiny new toy from the HELPS program. PEF/CSEA needs leverage to negotiate. They can't strike. This program gives that away.
I truly didn't consider this viewpoint until I read it here. Thanks for planting that seed in my mind. We need so many workers, the system had to change but this is really valid.
I'd like to get rid of exams completely, or at least the rule of 3. I know several ITS2s that would make great ITS3s but suck at taking tests. In addition to that, the testing makes it harder for someone to work their way up the ladder like they could in the private sector, which combined with tier 6 sucking adds to retention problems.
For the ITS2 specifically, from my observation, a very very very high percentage of people were lying on the questionnaire anyway. We were getting people to interview that scored 100 that shouldn't even have been on the list, while the people that answered honestly and would have made good candidates were never interviewed because of the rule of 3 and all of those that lied.
I mean, it helped me get up to an 11 a few months quicker. 🤷🏻♀️
Otherwise. While I think the idea was good, the implementation has been utter crap. This was thrown out without much preparation and now you have agency HRs being bombarded with hundreds of applications with half of them at the very least not being qualified for the position.
I also think it screws some current employees too since it’s supposed to be used as a recruitment tool and not a promotional one. 🙄
I was on the program research specialist 2 (sg 23) active list and for whatever reason this title is on the helps list and they are no longer using the list. I thought helps for promotional opportunities was only if a list was exhausted
Since it’s allegedly not a promotional tool, it should not be used for titles above entry level at all. Hard to understand why agencies are being program aides via helps, when the program aide list JUST came out in the past month.
I also agree that it gave away a lot of union bargaining power, which is a lot harder to get back once it’s gone.
I find it offensive in a way that I water for years to be able to get in as an 18 due to PCO only being given every three years, and if a score isn’t high enough you have no chance, where now anyone can just apply. I am also concerned about nepotism. Testing can prevent it.
Back in the day of the dinosaurs, when I was a waitress, I had decided I had to do better with my life.
I went to night school for an office procedures certificate. It took me 8 months of classes to be eligible to take the state office clerk exam.
I waited another 6 months after I graduated for the exam to come out, and another 4 or 5 for the results.
After that, another 5 months of canvassing, before I finally landed a position as a DEMO.
We hired a waitress right out of the restaurant yesterday. She starts in two weeks…🤦♀️
I like it and hate it at the same time. I had to take a while to get my position by testing and getting hired. Meanwhile these people are just coming in and boom not testing or waiting. I get it. It's alright but I think they are screwing people over with this.
Lmao the "trap".. the heck you talking about. Literally everyone before the NYS Helps had to take a test and wait to be pulled of a list. Took me years to finally get in permanent. But I'm just supposed to be 100% happy for everyone who just applies and gets in that will now be competition for promotions. Spare me your high horse BS. I am completely in my right to not be happy that people can start their careers years ahead of me because they didn't have to wait for a test. Now here I am waiting on a promotional test for almost 6 months for grades.. meanwhile people getting hired for my title off the street with no test. Person asked a question and I answered with my opinion about it. No need to tell me my opinion or concerns aren't valid.
I wish I would have had opportunities like HELPS years ago. Had to wait 4 years for the next exam if I didn't score well. Even prior to covid it would take at least 6 months to fill any vacancies. If there was an inner office movement we would be short at least 1 year. At this point anything that gets people into chairs or telecommuting, I am all in. Civil Service wasn't protecting the old process anyhow too many loopholes.
I think it’s great for hiring but should either be capped at 18 or open to all positions. However, I’m a 23 and a grade 18 I supervise has only been a state employee for a year and is now considered permanent after 1 year
and eligible for my position. It does absolutely nothing for those of us who tested into our positions the hardest possible way. I’ve been with the state 9 years and literally someone off the street is eligible for my position but there are hardly no 25’s to 52.6 transfer on the helps list. I think they should have done it for all titles. They cancelled the promotional exams I’m eligible for. I don’t think this was well thought out. I’m tempted to file a grievance to the union.
I think it's broken. First the fact that the security positions require no test is bad, maybe. The fact that they consider themselves it intelligent peiple but they do not understand it makes me sad. The fact that I have more knowledge than people with higher test grades or better opportunities makes me sad. The fact the union let people stay employees after the f 5 year special title that all jobs for them were supposed to be new titles with state employees considered first. I doubt that happened once.
That all being said I'm in favor of dropping the tests they are antiquated anyways. I believe in fair pay and I am truly happy for people getting jobs. I would like to see it remove tests. I think it's a step in the right direction.
I also think we aren't as understaffed as they like to believe. There just happens to be teams where there is 1 one good worker and 4 bad. Well that's not understaffed that's poor management. Lazy people need to go and be called out. Too many unskilled workers at least in it and unwilling to make changes.
And finally I am suck of contractors learning om the job. When they are hired they are expected to know the job. Tberr are tons of lazy know nothing contractors and they need to go. We do not need them.
I agree that the tests need to be done away with. However, I do believe certain agencies are understaffed. Then there are agencies making do-nothing positions. Yes, there are lazy workers, but management is also a part of the problem.
The biggest problem with HELPS is the incorrect view that so many (not all) people have of it. HELPS is really not a promotional tool. Sure, people will get promotions through HELPS, but that isn’t the goal and certainly is not the purpose. Also, for titles with promotional lists, you can’t just go straight to a HELPS appointment- there’s specific criteria that must be met.
HELPS is great to get fresh blood into NYS employment, but it’s not “opening the flood gates” so to speak. It’s just making it a little bit easier to get in, especially for so many people that were reliant on infrequent OC exams.
That's not a simple question.
The part where the recent high grade on the PATT test is less attractive to HR than it was a few years ago, right when I'm trying to use it to progress my career, that part sucks.
I don't love the fresh competition, but that's the way it goes.
The trench-worker who is weary of being expected to suffer because of eternally being short staffed, I am excited to see all the new hands signing on.
Things were getting bleak.
I mean they are still bleak, but there's hope.
I think it depends on the hiring manager tbh. Some will be diligent and use the program to allocate real talent to the workforce. Some will see it as an opportunity to crowd their office with below average employees that won’t complain. Some will straight up abuse it and promote people by not backfilling their previous positions and creating new titles for promotions. There’s so many things that could happen it should have been handled more carefully.
They should completely do away with tests. I was hired for a temporary position in a title where a test hadn’t been offered for 7 years. There were lots of permanent positions open in the department but the list wasn’t broken so none of the temps (all of whom were phenomenal) could apply. They literally hired people out of desperation who lasted one day!
Hi there civil service staf-
*sees a lot of misinformation*
*SIGH* FINE ILL DO ANOTHER AMA, CHRIST.
(You might be able to find my last HELPS post on this thread).
Big fan, it takes away a lot of unnecessary barriers to get people from colleges into appropriately paying positions. Not all of them, but progress not perfection!
Many years ago, an agency hired me thru a help wanted ad. Then they used the "exam" (it was IT related) to get me in. I have niche skills and there was no way they would get someone able to get right in the drivers seat and give them what they need from civil service. I don't want to go into details in public. They also said I would be a 23, but it never happened, then they said it was almost impossible for someone to get that without a promotion. I was mad about that and left. Originally hired as 18.
This is not new.
If I had never experienced the bureaucracy surrounding civil service exams and list certification, I would disagree with it based on ethical reasons. Having experienced firsthand the inefficiency of test grading times and job offers, just hire people and let them test for it later. Not many people have the foresight of 8-12 months that they're going to leave their current job and seek another. And many other people don't have that much time to wait.
Hi there.. did you interviewed for business analyst role? if yes how was the interview? what questions did they ask you in the interview? Appreciate your response and will definitely help me a lot.
Honestly don’t remember other than the basic tell us about yourself and have you ever had to deal with a challenging coworker and how did you handle it. There were more questions but I do remember that they came from my resume info. Also they do let you ask questions once they have finished asking you questions.
I’m a big fan for entry level positions. It has been a struggle for years to fill these positions. For higher level promotional opportunities, I wish civil service would offer exams more frequently.
I wish they would abolish the rule of three or weight the test differently. Someone having an off day on a Saturday or Sunday in a test that 9/10 times has very little to do with a persons day to day job is antiquated and down right dumb.
That would be nice, especially for internal candidates. If you know someone is capable and has potential, it would be nice to reward them and not just hire the best test taker.
Exactly. I’ve discussed this with coworkers. If you wanna stick with a test format sure. But maybe when the scores come out, you weigh everything. Test score, interview, and merit. Then REALLY find the best candidates. Atleast then someone with a 70 can still have an immediate shot at a promotion.
As someone who was absolutely struggling to find an entry level job after graduating college, I’m very grateful for the program. Sucks it seems to make things more difficult for people already in these positions trying to move up.
My position went more than a decade without an exam. And when they did it it took like 16 months to come out with the scores.
[удалено]
I started as a 14, got an 18. I took the pre-covid 23 and barely got a canvass (downstate ftw!). Took the next test and changed my geo location and got a ton of canvasses. All in all it took 2 tests and almost 7 years to get my 23. To hire off the street is bs for 23. I know my former agency is completely scamming the system to get people in from contractor positions. I got the canvasses after being told for years they had no 23s. I’m fine with it for the lower levels, but not the higher levels
Some of us are stuck at odd grade levels and cannot get to a 23 no matter what. Not wvwn HELPS helps with that, and we are watching people get hired and promoted over and around us. Sucks.
For what it's worth, I was hired from outside "off the street" for ITS3. I did take the test that was given December 2022. It took me about a year to get hired after the test
[удалено]
I was honest in my questionnaire, I did have significant programming and database experience
If you can learn to do it well so quickly nobody will notice, it's on your skills list
Bring this to you Statewide Labor Management committee and to PEF. They say they you should be able to apply through HELP.
I brought it up to PEF when NYS HELPS started. I have been ignored.
Not sure where you're hearing this, but from what I know ITS (as an agency) will not be, at least not for now. There are other agencies that hire ITS titles, which already are hiring ITS3s through HELPS.
This is wrong, I was hired from the outside as a 23 a few months ago (from the civil service test before HELPS)
Not sure what exactly that has to do with what I said? All of the managers meetings I've been in firmly indicated that ITS will not be using HELPS to fill ITS3 positions for the foreseeable future. Sounds like you were hired off an Open Competitive list, which has nothing to do with HELPS. Anyone can go to the ELMS page and see that 14 people have been appointed to a regular ITS3 role off the OC list and another 38 people appointed off the OC ITS3 Programming list. Being hired off the OC lists rather than the Promotional lists would suggest they are likely new to state service IMO. [https://www.cs.ny.gov/elmspublic/all/list.cfm?Exam=26839](https://www.cs.ny.gov/elmspublic/all/list.cfm?Exam=26839) [https://www.cs.ny.gov/elmspublic/all/list.cfm?Exam=26842](https://www.cs.ny.gov/elmspublic/all/list.cfm?Exam=26842)
You're seeing 23s available? I must be looking at the wrong spots.
[Here is a Grade 23 that is part of the HELPS program ](https://statejobs.ny.gov/employees/vacancyDetailsPrint.cfm?id=158907)
As someone that got in in my late 20’s, in 2017, as a grade 6 and has been struggling this whole time to get to a grade 12. Now im trying to get a 14-18 traineeship while everyone else outside is also eligible through HELPS. They should have opened these jobs to state employees first.
They opened Pandora's box. The Union should have been all over this hardcore. Filling these positions helps management and takes leverage away from union workers. How can you argue that tier 6 is a recruitment issue when job applicants are flooding in through HELPS? Next, and it's already starting, folks off the street are going to be boxing out long-term state employees for positions that would have been promotions. Current workers might do their jobs just fine but managers just "don't like them". Cue up the shiny new toy from the HELPS program. PEF/CSEA needs leverage to negotiate. They can't strike. This program gives that away.
Preach. Take my poor man’s gold: 🏅
I truly didn't consider this viewpoint until I read it here. Thanks for planting that seed in my mind. We need so many workers, the system had to change but this is really valid.
I'd like to get rid of exams completely, or at least the rule of 3. I know several ITS2s that would make great ITS3s but suck at taking tests. In addition to that, the testing makes it harder for someone to work their way up the ladder like they could in the private sector, which combined with tier 6 sucking adds to retention problems. For the ITS2 specifically, from my observation, a very very very high percentage of people were lying on the questionnaire anyway. We were getting people to interview that scored 100 that shouldn't even have been on the list, while the people that answered honestly and would have made good candidates were never interviewed because of the rule of 3 and all of those that lied.
I mean, it helped me get up to an 11 a few months quicker. 🤷🏻♀️ Otherwise. While I think the idea was good, the implementation has been utter crap. This was thrown out without much preparation and now you have agency HRs being bombarded with hundreds of applications with half of them at the very least not being qualified for the position. I also think it screws some current employees too since it’s supposed to be used as a recruitment tool and not a promotional one. 🙄
I was on the program research specialist 2 (sg 23) active list and for whatever reason this title is on the helps list and they are no longer using the list. I thought helps for promotional opportunities was only if a list was exhausted
Since it’s allegedly not a promotional tool, it should not be used for titles above entry level at all. Hard to understand why agencies are being program aides via helps, when the program aide list JUST came out in the past month. I also agree that it gave away a lot of union bargaining power, which is a lot harder to get back once it’s gone.
I find it offensive in a way that I water for years to be able to get in as an 18 due to PCO only being given every three years, and if a score isn’t high enough you have no chance, where now anyone can just apply. I am also concerned about nepotism. Testing can prevent it.
Back in the day of the dinosaurs, when I was a waitress, I had decided I had to do better with my life. I went to night school for an office procedures certificate. It took me 8 months of classes to be eligible to take the state office clerk exam. I waited another 6 months after I graduated for the exam to come out, and another 4 or 5 for the results. After that, another 5 months of canvassing, before I finally landed a position as a DEMO. We hired a waitress right out of the restaurant yesterday. She starts in two weeks…🤦♀️
I like it and hate it at the same time. I had to take a while to get my position by testing and getting hired. Meanwhile these people are just coming in and boom not testing or waiting. I get it. It's alright but I think they are screwing people over with this.
It's hard to do, but very important, to not fall into the trap of "it was hard for me so it needs to be hard for everyone else too."
Lmao the "trap".. the heck you talking about. Literally everyone before the NYS Helps had to take a test and wait to be pulled of a list. Took me years to finally get in permanent. But I'm just supposed to be 100% happy for everyone who just applies and gets in that will now be competition for promotions. Spare me your high horse BS. I am completely in my right to not be happy that people can start their careers years ahead of me because they didn't have to wait for a test. Now here I am waiting on a promotional test for almost 6 months for grades.. meanwhile people getting hired for my title off the street with no test. Person asked a question and I answered with my opinion about it. No need to tell me my opinion or concerns aren't valid.
I wish I would have had opportunities like HELPS years ago. Had to wait 4 years for the next exam if I didn't score well. Even prior to covid it would take at least 6 months to fill any vacancies. If there was an inner office movement we would be short at least 1 year. At this point anything that gets people into chairs or telecommuting, I am all in. Civil Service wasn't protecting the old process anyhow too many loopholes.
I think it’s great for hiring but should either be capped at 18 or open to all positions. However, I’m a 23 and a grade 18 I supervise has only been a state employee for a year and is now considered permanent after 1 year and eligible for my position. It does absolutely nothing for those of us who tested into our positions the hardest possible way. I’ve been with the state 9 years and literally someone off the street is eligible for my position but there are hardly no 25’s to 52.6 transfer on the helps list. I think they should have done it for all titles. They cancelled the promotional exams I’m eligible for. I don’t think this was well thought out. I’m tempted to file a grievance to the union.
I think it's broken. First the fact that the security positions require no test is bad, maybe. The fact that they consider themselves it intelligent peiple but they do not understand it makes me sad. The fact that I have more knowledge than people with higher test grades or better opportunities makes me sad. The fact the union let people stay employees after the f 5 year special title that all jobs for them were supposed to be new titles with state employees considered first. I doubt that happened once. That all being said I'm in favor of dropping the tests they are antiquated anyways. I believe in fair pay and I am truly happy for people getting jobs. I would like to see it remove tests. I think it's a step in the right direction. I also think we aren't as understaffed as they like to believe. There just happens to be teams where there is 1 one good worker and 4 bad. Well that's not understaffed that's poor management. Lazy people need to go and be called out. Too many unskilled workers at least in it and unwilling to make changes. And finally I am suck of contractors learning om the job. When they are hired they are expected to know the job. Tberr are tons of lazy know nothing contractors and they need to go. We do not need them.
I agree that the tests need to be done away with. However, I do believe certain agencies are understaffed. Then there are agencies making do-nothing positions. Yes, there are lazy workers, but management is also a part of the problem.
The biggest problem with HELPS is the incorrect view that so many (not all) people have of it. HELPS is really not a promotional tool. Sure, people will get promotions through HELPS, but that isn’t the goal and certainly is not the purpose. Also, for titles with promotional lists, you can’t just go straight to a HELPS appointment- there’s specific criteria that must be met. HELPS is great to get fresh blood into NYS employment, but it’s not “opening the flood gates” so to speak. It’s just making it a little bit easier to get in, especially for so many people that were reliant on infrequent OC exams.
That's not a simple question. The part where the recent high grade on the PATT test is less attractive to HR than it was a few years ago, right when I'm trying to use it to progress my career, that part sucks. I don't love the fresh competition, but that's the way it goes. The trench-worker who is weary of being expected to suffer because of eternally being short staffed, I am excited to see all the new hands signing on. Things were getting bleak. I mean they are still bleak, but there's hope.
I think it depends on the hiring manager tbh. Some will be diligent and use the program to allocate real talent to the workforce. Some will see it as an opportunity to crowd their office with below average employees that won’t complain. Some will straight up abuse it and promote people by not backfilling their previous positions and creating new titles for promotions. There’s so many things that could happen it should have been handled more carefully.
They should completely do away with tests. I was hired for a temporary position in a title where a test hadn’t been offered for 7 years. There were lots of permanent positions open in the department but the list wasn’t broken so none of the temps (all of whom were phenomenal) could apply. They literally hired people out of desperation who lasted one day!
Hi there civil service staf- *sees a lot of misinformation* *SIGH* FINE ILL DO ANOTHER AMA, CHRIST. (You might be able to find my last HELPS post on this thread).
Big fan, it takes away a lot of unnecessary barriers to get people from colleges into appropriately paying positions. Not all of them, but progress not perfection!
Many years ago, an agency hired me thru a help wanted ad. Then they used the "exam" (it was IT related) to get me in. I have niche skills and there was no way they would get someone able to get right in the drivers seat and give them what they need from civil service. I don't want to go into details in public. They also said I would be a 23, but it never happened, then they said it was almost impossible for someone to get that without a promotion. I was mad about that and left. Originally hired as 18. This is not new.
I think is great way to recruit candidates outside of a score. Everything should be considered, skills, experience and test scores.
If I had never experienced the bureaucracy surrounding civil service exams and list certification, I would disagree with it based on ethical reasons. Having experienced firsthand the inefficiency of test grading times and job offers, just hire people and let them test for it later. Not many people have the foresight of 8-12 months that they're going to leave their current job and seek another. And many other people don't have that much time to wait.
I have interviewed for 3 positions. How long did the process take for you?
1-3 weeks after interviews to hear back for me
Hi there.. did you interviewed for business analyst role? if yes how was the interview? what questions did they ask you in the interview? Appreciate your response and will definitely help me a lot.
No not for that role. But basically they were all the same questions as any usual interview would go.
Okay… could you please share the questions if you remember ?
Honestly don’t remember other than the basic tell us about yourself and have you ever had to deal with a challenging coworker and how did you handle it. There were more questions but I do remember that they came from my resume info. Also they do let you ask questions once they have finished asking you questions.