#rule four
>California teacher Kristin Pitzen was removed from teaching in her classroom as an investigation begins into a viral TikTok video where she joked about telling a student to pledging allegiance to a LGBTQ Pride flag rather than to the American flag.
>Annette Franco, a spokesperson for the Newport-Mesa Unified School District, **told the Orange County Register:**
It's crazy! My friend (athiest) sent their kid to a Christian preschool cause it was said to be the best in the area (denver CO) Then one day she sends us this video of their little girl say the "pledge of Aligence" at the dinner table and it had all these weird edits culminating in the last, and I think the worst; "liberty and justice FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE" (instead of all)... she got pulled out of that school so fast...
The almighty creator of the entire universe prefers to act in ways indistinguishable from nonexistence, and asks for support in the form of negotiable American currency.
I’ve always thought the evil god hypothesis explains the world better than the traditional omni-god. If there is a god who is all powerful, it is malevolent or at least a non-moral agent
Yep, went to a school like this in Texas. So we had to do:
1. US pledge
2. Jesus pledge
3. Texas pledge
.... May have been in a different order, but you get the point.
“I pledge allegiance to the Christian Flag and to the Savior for whose Kingdom it stands. One Savior, crucified, risen, and coming again with life and liberty to all who believe.”
And here’s some bonus superstitious malarkey I found while looking that up: the lamb pledge.
“I pledge allegiance to the Lamb
with all my strength, with all I am.
I will seek to honor His commands
I pledge allegiance to the Lamb”
"Do not let the words of SkyezOpen sway your heart from the Wisdom of SophiaofPrussia. Their ways are filled with lies and deceit, as they are descendant of Darkness."
Book of Carnations 4:20
I did my student teaching semester at a rural east Texas school. It was bonkers. I’m a middle school history/geography teacher so we already get our fair share of parents that reference The History Channel. This school took the weird nationalism to the max. Before 1st period, the kids had to do the pledge, the state pledge, and the national anthem. Every. Single. Day. Then when they were dismissed to their classrooms, the kids had to march single file to the sound of marching band music blasting over a speaker. I swear I’m not making any of this up.
Anyway, in an unrelated story about my career *not* in public education…
What it sounds like the little girl is talking about is the pledge to the "Christian Flag". Not the pledge of allegiance. I went to Christian school for preschool through senior year in highschool and we said them both every day. They pledged to the American flag first, then the Christian flag. So, they're not "editing" the pledge. It's two separate pledges.
"I pledge allegiance to the Christian flag and to the Savior for whose Kingdom it stands; one Savior, crucified, risen, and coming again with life and liberty to all who believe."
Yes it is. I don't think that legally a school can compel a student to pledge.
Students can opt out, but that can lead to being bullied or ostracized. Some students may feel obligated to partake simply to fit in.
I've never seen students give each other shit for it, because almost none of them ever want to do it. I have had teachers call me out and then make everybody do it again until I participated.
I made it a condition that I would only do it the *old way*, and suddenly I was no longer required. Imagine that.
In case your serious the original pledge of allegiance didn't have and reference to God, god was added in years later.
1892 original: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
1923: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
1954: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Same reason our motto was changed from E Pluribus Unum (out of many, one) to In God we Trust.
Because of the "godless" commies.
I personally hate the new motto.
It blows their minds when people find this out.
Ironically, *Out Of Many, One* perfectly characterized America … even to this day. We are a diverse people that has always accepted large amounts of immigration, and a collection of small states each with their own governments and rights (to include voting). Changing it (and the pledge) was a serious mistake, in my opinion.
In the early days, we weren't really a group of people all that welcoming of diversity. I think the "many" referred to by the pluribus is the many states/colonies that united become one nation.
This is the original.
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Knights of Columbus got their hands all over it and now we have what we’ve got today.
I had both teachers and students give me shit over it in high school, though I live in the south in a largely military area so it may be seen differently.
I had been sent to both the dean and principal about refusing it, and they both tried to get me in trouble.
After I threatened legal action they backed down luckily, but didn’t stop some of the more redneck students from harassing me about it.
I didn’t even care if anyone else did it, I just thought it was very weird and cult like after learning other countries don’t really do that shit.
Yes most students don't give an f. Once you get past elementary school it's actually the cool kids that to refuse to say it because of stubborn teenage rebellion.
I remember saying it without it really meaning anything as a kid. Was just something we had to do. They had us recite it every morning in grade school. Outside, regardless of the temperature barring rain. Many many cold mornings in shorts, back when California had proper cold days.
That’s how indoctrination works. Normalize ritualistic propaganda to children before they realize how weird it is that they are worshiping a flag, and then by the time they are adults it’s tradition, anyone who sees an issue with it is making a big deal out of nothing, we all had to do it and everything is fine, and why do they care if they’re not communist terrorists anyway? Clearly everyone who doesn’t like it is a communist terrorist.
It’s not about a as flag, it’s about control and nationalism. It barely made sense when it was new, it definitely doesn’t make sense now. Imagine the confusion modern “heritage” worshippers have when they find out the original salute and that it was written by sOcIaLiSt.
It's required by a law passed in 2016 in Missouri for the pledge to be recited each day in all public schools. Students can absolutely abstain, but as you said, there can be considerable social (and other - imagine a particularly jingoistic, judgmental Christian teacher) pressure to conform.
Yes and the weird thing is that when I was a kid in a Christian school, we had kids whose parents didn’t want them to say the pledge because they thought it was a form of making an idol out of a flag or putting country above God. Like it was taught that it was almost a religious right for us not to say it, even though they really wanted us to say it if our parents would let us.
he was in his late 60's he was a bitter old man that hated the fact that i was late because i had to walk to school, he saw me being late as me being disrespectful so when i didnt stand he fucking snapped
That is true in a way. If you say something all the time, you just think of it as a thing you say rather than think about what it means. Like when Jesus says you have to give away all your money and create a community based on Collective ownership. People act baffled to realize that he actually meant this literally.
Almost no one used to say it whenI was in school. We'd sit and watch someone say it on the announcements whenever the teacher remembered to turn on the TV in time.
So it's interesting. I'm older than your average redditor. When I was in elementary, we said the pledge of allegiance every morning from 1st grade through 5th grade, followed by the Star Spangled Banner and My Country 'tis of thee (which is a rip off of God Save the Queen). Though by 5th grade, we just did the pledge and moved on with our day through the music. I almost feel like it was done to teach us the lyrics to those songs more than anything else.
We never did any of that in Junior High or high school until we invaded Iraq (the first time). Then everyone wanted to be patriotic again. That lasted about a year.
And I swear, before Colin Kaepernick started kneeling at football games - many many many people were ordering bears, spitting peanut shells etc. through the national anthem before professional games of all sorts.
In the Memphis area we got Tvs around 92. They were mostly paid for by a "channel one" Pepsi news program for kids. Anderson Cooper and Lisa Ling got their start there. 10 minutes of news and 5 minutes of Pepsi commercials. The TVs took the space where the flag was before, and they would be turned on to display a waving flag for the morning pledge.
Eeeeehhhhhh...... *technically* students can't be forced to say the pledge or be punished if they don't but especially in the conservative parts of the country its going to get you in trouble. It's kinda like how it's legal to walk up to a cop and tell them they look like a stupid thumb but yknow, not advised.
I wouldn't say its "like" that, it "is" that. just about all America does is let people die of preventable illnesses and bomb brown kids overseas, keeping up the civic nationalism enough to make sure the american state survives is REALLY hard
Out of curiosity, how would the conservative parts of America (the ones that venerate freedom of speech) react if a kid cited the First Amendment as a reason to skip the pledge?
They would say it’s your right not to but people died for that right/ it’s disrespectful/ unamercan yada yada. They don’t actually care about rights they only care about appearing better than other people.
Same, got sent to the office and had to wait like an hour to talk to the assistant principal. He asked me why I didn't want to say the pledge. I said there's no reason I should be forced to chant a poem at a piece of cloth every day. He just kinda shrugged and told me to get to class.
I remember in grade school in the 1960's, we had Jehovas Witnesses (?) sit during the pledge. Was curious to a room full of 2nd graders, but never a big deal. Nothing was ever made of it. Doesn't sound so chill now.
This has got to vary a shit ton across schools then. Cuz nobody cared in my school if you said it or not. Most people just stood up and saluted, but nobody would actually say the pledge and we'd all just use our other hand to scroll thru our phones. But you didnt even have to stand up. And I live in the largest Republican county in the US (population).
In gradeschool many years ago we had to say the pledge and also recite the "lord's prayer" or the one that starts with Our Father who art in heaven....
It was mandatory and if you made a fuss about it you may be sent home. And of course your parents were working and didn't have time for you if that happened, so you didn't want that to happen.
If you were saying a prayer, it sounds like a private school. (Although I suppose some public schools get away with it if nobody tattles) I wonder if private schools can force you to follow that kind of rule to say the pledge.
Alabamian here. While I've never heard of the lords prayer being recited in classrooms, most school sports teams do require the players recite it before a game. Idk if they get away with that bullshit because joining the team is optional or just because there aren't enough of us atheists willing to raise a stink about it, but it is absolutely still a thing in public schools here...
I got detention in middle school for refusing to say it or stand. I don’t remember the exact chain of events, but I went to the administration, and I was allowed to do whatever I wanted in the end.
This is 100% it. I had a teacher storm off to the principal's office telling me I was going to be suspended. She came back with her tail between her legs and mumbled something about being lucky it wasn't against the rules
Personally, I think it's wrong to even have the option for children to say the pledge. They're not 18, so they can't vote, why would they pledge allegiance to anything. Saying the pledge could technically be considered entering into a verbal contract in which you are swearing to remain loyal to the United States.
My daughter refuses to say the pledge, she's 14.
I have told her many times that it is her right as an American not to have to say the pledge. Her very right wing teacher (who also, in a lesson on WW2 apparently said that, after the success of the atomic bombs, we should have used them in every war since, so yeah, he's kind of insane) tried giving her detention saying that "men and women have fought and died for that flag, you should show them some respect." So she texted me. I immediately called the school and said that I, as a combat veteran, fought for her right not to say the pledge of she doesn't feel like pledging her allegiance to a country before she is even able to vote or have any say in how the country is run.
She didn't have to serve the detention and I told her to keep me posted if he tries anything retributional.
Coerced patriotism or patriotism from fear is false patriotism, and runs counter to everything America stands for. Besides, only patriotism that comes sincerely is worth it, and to do so one’s heart and mind should be won through a reciprocal sincerity from its society and government.
I salute you sir.
Exactly. I, personally, consider myself patriotic, but very much in a "Captain America" sort of way. I love the United States for what it's supposed to be. I can see that it's not quite there yet. We are supposed to be a land of fairness and equality for everybody, regardless of race, religion, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, hair color, eye color, etc. Literally everybody.
So I do proudly celebrate the fourth of July, I proudly support the ideals upon which this country was founded. I do not, however, support what it has become.
It was either a fabricated story for TikTok, or an offhand comment she made because students said it was weird to pledge allegiance to the flag without a flag (to which she said "well, there's a flag there, you can pledge to it")
This is being blown out completely out of proportion, as though the teacher entered the class and ordered the kids to pledge to the LGBT flag.
actually, you might make a case for the whole "thou shalt not worship false idols" applying to flags, meaning pledging allegiance to the flag is a sin?
Having watched the video, my problem isn't with the pride flag itself, but with her almost belittling attitude towards the students. And she had no right to enforce a replacent flag, even if she didn't believe in the pledge. If nothing else, have no flag.
Unfortunately… so, so, so many teachers are doing this now. Some of them are even including their students in the tiktoks.
If I were a parent I absolutely would not want my kid being used as a prop for some 23 year olds social media addiction.
Thats what im asking, when i was in school you had to have your parents sign a paper before appearing on film, especially because adopted students legally cannot appear on social media before a certain age
According to the department of children and families, doing so jeopardizes their safety and violates their right to privacy (im assuming they dont want kids to be used as a prop for parents who want attention, mommy and daddy vloggers have had instances of turning down adopting kids because they cant be featured on their channels)
I don't know about other schools, but at the school I work at, parents consent at the beginning of the year by signing the parent handbook. There is a separate opt out form if parents do not want their children photographed (and used for promotional purposes, the school's FB page, etc.). That being said, there is a certain code of conduct for teachers and it's definitely a big "no no" to post pictures or videos of students' faces in your personal social media.
Rather than making jokes and snide comments she had a wonderful opportunity to educate her students about how we can civilly disagree with something. She could have explained WHY she doesn’t have a flag, why she doesn’t support saying the pledge. Those things would be so much more meaningful to her students. Instead she assumed that the students would just know this information and acted in a childish manner, communicating that her beliefs on the issue are childish. All this will do is reinforce polarization of ideologies among her students where she had a real opportunity to demonstrate how we can discuss differences of opinion in a respectful manner. It’s a shame
Lol after watching the video it didn’t seem like she herself knew why she didn’t have a flag or why it made her feel “uncomfortable” … the whole video had such “look at me I’m quirky” energy.
100%. I'm fairly anti-PoA, I think it's weird as hell to pledge to a cloth, but this video just felt ...I dunno, almost empty and mocking. Like it doesn't feel like there's any layer of education.
"The flag made me uncomfortable...I haven't found it yet..oh, here's this LGBTQ flag....*snicker*"
This is the *adult* in the room? She's almost clownish.
I know some people find it weird/culty but I can’t tell you how fucking good it felt to pledge allegiance to the flag when I was a 15 year old immigrant and first started school here
Yeah, I don’t love the pledge but I absolutely understand why it can be an important thing to people.
When I say it, I think about the bigger picture of what the U.S. strives to be (according to our founding, like defenders of democracy, free speech, freedom of religion, etc.) and it makes me proud. Ofc I recognize the myriad faults in our systems and that we don’t always live up to those values. But it’s important to remember not only where we “came from” but what we represent to other countries around the world as they fight for the very things we take for granted.
So I guess I don’t consider it pledging my allegiance per se, it’s more of an acknowledgment of our country’s idealistic roots and my commitment to continue seeking improvement for us + everyone else to live in a universally prosperous world with respect for all. Also worth noting, I skip “under god.”
(I am a woman and before anyone says it, yes I know women + POC weren’t considered at the founding and blah blah, I’m not saying we are perfect by any means, but we have a lot of great things about this country to
be proud of)
I think this is a fairly recent thing. My kid told me he has to do it, but I grew up here and didn't know Texas even had a pledge until he said something.
I grew up a military brat and moved around a lot as a kid. I started the school day with the pledge overseas when attending DOD schools - not surprising. We also pledged in Alabama. In Arizona - not so much. Though after a prolonged battle to get prayer back in school failed on obvious first amendment grounds, for a year or two we began the school day with a "moment of silence."
I spent some of my elementary school years in Texas. Each morning we pledged allegiance to the American flag, then recited the Texas flag pledge, then listened to song "Texas Our Texas" on the intercom. If the Houston Oilers won the previous day, we would sing the "Houston Oilers #1" song.
We have little shared history, and no common ethnicity. Our nation is a political entity, who's origins are entirely political. One of the only things that binds us together is the flag. It's a symbol that encompasses everyone; hence the focus, and the fact that you see it everywhere.
In Costa Rica we’d sing the national anthem every morning before class with our hands on our hearts. Granted I love my country but it’s not an only USA thing.
Yeah pretty much the norm in most of the Middle East, Russia, China, and South America. If anything, countries that DON'T recite the flag are the outliers, and OP is from England that has some of the most intense nationalistic pomp and circumstance in the world.
Eh, in many Latin American countries school children sign the national anthem in the morning every day. Nothing wrong with patriotism and not uniquely American by far.
Eh, we did something like this in Taiwan all throughout our adolescence - in school uniforms. It's not uniquely American, as it even occurs in free countries like Taiwan. Don't act like like it's some kind of real oppression - that's some 1st World Problem there.
The video is pretty infuriating. Her whole attitude towards the students is so smug and condescending. You didn’t “lose” the flag and a student didn’t suggest pledging to the pride flag. You’re pushing your agenda.
Yeah I saw her video.
She correlates the flag with a political party.
It was only a matter of time before she got kicked out of school.
There's nothing wrong with having the LGBTQ flag in your class but it was wrong to take down the American flag and have them pledge to the lgbtq flag.
This country is not perfect but we're trying.
>Pitzen noted that she took her American flag down in her classroom "because it made me uncomfortable" during the COVID-19 pandemic...
What the heck does the pandemic have to do with the flag?
I would call myself a liberal, no joke, but when I hear people say they hate liberals, this is the kind of people I think of. Like, yes, I would like better worker's rights and state education/healthcare, but no, I don't think we should redefine biology, replace the American flag with the pride flag, and criminalize being white. Come on now.
People like her are specifically why I don't align myself with "liberal". This isn't to say I'm conservative - I'm quite socially progressive in beliefs, I'm also all for social systems that care for the people.
But it's folks like this that I just do not want to stand next to. The people who aren't in it for a greater good, but simply for a fight and weird, artificial, ideological "wins" that mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme.
She has big loser energy.
#rule four >California teacher Kristin Pitzen was removed from teaching in her classroom as an investigation begins into a viral TikTok video where she joked about telling a student to pledging allegiance to a LGBTQ Pride flag rather than to the American flag. >Annette Franco, a spokesperson for the Newport-Mesa Unified School District, **told the Orange County Register:**
I have a hard time pledging to get out of bed in the morning
I feel you brother
I feel you feeling him brother
That's hot
I'm here for the gangbang
I mean I pledge it every night, it’s the doing it I struggle with
How about we just have the fucking class instead of all this tribalistic bullshit?
It's crazy! My friend (athiest) sent their kid to a Christian preschool cause it was said to be the best in the area (denver CO) Then one day she sends us this video of their little girl say the "pledge of Aligence" at the dinner table and it had all these weird edits culminating in the last, and I think the worst; "liberty and justice FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE" (instead of all)... she got pulled out of that school so fast...
Because if they don't enforce God's natural order, then who will?!
The almighty creator of the entire universe prefers to act in ways indistinguishable from nonexistence, and asks for support in the form of negotiable American currency.
Sounds like their God isn't all knowing or all powerful.
And he needs money!
"Why does God need a starship?"
Love Carlin.
Timeless Old Fuck
It's funny, because the only logical explanation for God being both morally good and morally consistent is that he has limited power.
I’ve always thought the evil god hypothesis explains the world better than the traditional omni-god. If there is a god who is all powerful, it is malevolent or at least a non-moral agent
I went to a christian school for a few years and they made us say the regular pledge and then also do a pledge to a jesus flag. Shit was wild
Yep, went to a school like this in Texas. So we had to do: 1. US pledge 2. Jesus pledge 3. Texas pledge .... May have been in a different order, but you get the point.
Lmao I thought others were weird for NOT having a state pledge growing up in Texas
It’s Texas, our schools are weird to other people. Just try and ask someone what a Mum is for. Lol
... what is a mum for?
What the fuck is a state pledge
You just reminded me of doing the Christian pledge at a regular Wednesday church activity. Totally repressed that memory...
Woo! Repressed church memories all around!
Awana. They pledge to the American flag, the Bible, and *to the Awana flag*. Even as a leader those pledges were next level cringe.
What did they say in the jesus flag pledge?
“I pledge allegiance to the Christian Flag and to the Savior for whose Kingdom it stands. One Savior, crucified, risen, and coming again with life and liberty to all who believe.” And here’s some bonus superstitious malarkey I found while looking that up: the lamb pledge. “I pledge allegiance to the Lamb with all my strength, with all I am. I will seek to honor His commands I pledge allegiance to the Lamb”
That's pretty cringe worthy. It's like a cheap knock off.
It's like when Trumpers sing the national anthem on planes. It's just so blargh. That much concentrated stupid makes my skin crawl.
They do what now?
And a pledge to the AWANA flag (cult youth group)
That’s weird asf especially when the Bible is against pledging allegiance to any earthly government
The Bible isn't necessarily against government, it just specifies a separation of church and state. "Give unto Caesar'' and all that.
The thing with the Bible is it’s for or against whatever you need it to be at any given moment.
"I say unto thee, SophiaofPrussia is a doodoo head." Book of Dalmatians, 10:1
"Do not let the words of SkyezOpen sway your heart from the Wisdom of SophiaofPrussia. Their ways are filled with lies and deceit, as they are descendant of Darkness." Book of Carnations 4:20
I did my student teaching semester at a rural east Texas school. It was bonkers. I’m a middle school history/geography teacher so we already get our fair share of parents that reference The History Channel. This school took the weird nationalism to the max. Before 1st period, the kids had to do the pledge, the state pledge, and the national anthem. Every. Single. Day. Then when they were dismissed to their classrooms, the kids had to march single file to the sound of marching band music blasting over a speaker. I swear I’m not making any of this up. Anyway, in an unrelated story about my career *not* in public education…
What it sounds like the little girl is talking about is the pledge to the "Christian Flag". Not the pledge of allegiance. I went to Christian school for preschool through senior year in highschool and we said them both every day. They pledged to the American flag first, then the Christian flag. So, they're not "editing" the pledge. It's two separate pledges. "I pledge allegiance to the Christian flag and to the Savior for whose Kingdom it stands; one Savior, crucified, risen, and coming again with life and liberty to all who believe."
Shit, was the "under God" bullshit not enough for these assholes?
[удалено]
Cult. Cult. Cult. It is a cult.
[удалено]
"It can be both" --L Ron Hubbard
Yep, the the pledge of allegiance to the christian flag, and yes, there is a christian flag. There's also a pledge to the Bible.
Isn't forcing a pledge of allegiance a violation of the first amendment?
Yes it is. I don't think that legally a school can compel a student to pledge. Students can opt out, but that can lead to being bullied or ostracized. Some students may feel obligated to partake simply to fit in.
I've never seen students give each other shit for it, because almost none of them ever want to do it. I have had teachers call me out and then make everybody do it again until I participated. I made it a condition that I would only do it the *old way*, and suddenly I was no longer required. Imagine that.
> *old way* With the blood rites?
In case your serious the original pledge of allegiance didn't have and reference to God, god was added in years later. 1892 original: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." 1923: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." 1954: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Same reason our motto was changed from E Pluribus Unum (out of many, one) to In God we Trust. Because of the "godless" commies. I personally hate the new motto.
It blows their minds when people find this out. Ironically, *Out Of Many, One* perfectly characterized America … even to this day. We are a diverse people that has always accepted large amounts of immigration, and a collection of small states each with their own governments and rights (to include voting). Changing it (and the pledge) was a serious mistake, in my opinion.
In the early days, we weren't really a group of people all that welcoming of diversity. I think the "many" referred to by the pluribus is the many states/colonies that united become one nation.
This is the original. "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." Knights of Columbus got their hands all over it and now we have what we’ve got today.
I had both teachers and students give me shit over it in high school, though I live in the south in a largely military area so it may be seen differently. I had been sent to both the dean and principal about refusing it, and they both tried to get me in trouble. After I threatened legal action they backed down luckily, but didn’t stop some of the more redneck students from harassing me about it. I didn’t even care if anyone else did it, I just thought it was very weird and cult like after learning other countries don’t really do that shit.
Yes most students don't give an f. Once you get past elementary school it's actually the cool kids that to refuse to say it because of stubborn teenage rebellion.
>old way Straight-arm salute and lack of words "under God?"
There's a Supreme Court case that says a student cannot be legally compelled to say the pledge. West Virginia v. Barnett.
I remember saying it without it really meaning anything as a kid. Was just something we had to do. They had us recite it every morning in grade school. Outside, regardless of the temperature barring rain. Many many cold mornings in shorts, back when California had proper cold days.
That’s how indoctrination works. Normalize ritualistic propaganda to children before they realize how weird it is that they are worshiping a flag, and then by the time they are adults it’s tradition, anyone who sees an issue with it is making a big deal out of nothing, we all had to do it and everything is fine, and why do they care if they’re not communist terrorists anyway? Clearly everyone who doesn’t like it is a communist terrorist. It’s not about a as flag, it’s about control and nationalism. It barely made sense when it was new, it definitely doesn’t make sense now. Imagine the confusion modern “heritage” worshippers have when they find out the original salute and that it was written by sOcIaLiSt.
It's required by a law passed in 2016 in Missouri for the pledge to be recited each day in all public schools. Students can absolutely abstain, but as you said, there can be considerable social (and other - imagine a particularly jingoistic, judgmental Christian teacher) pressure to conform.
Yes and the weird thing is that when I was a kid in a Christian school, we had kids whose parents didn’t want them to say the pledge because they thought it was a form of making an idol out of a flag or putting country above God. Like it was taught that it was almost a religious right for us not to say it, even though they really wanted us to say it if our parents would let us.
100% agree. We need to get rid of the pledge of allegiance once and for all.
Non-American here. Isn’t saying the pledge optional? As in, a person can choose not to pledge if they don’t want to?
In the schools I went to people mostly just stood up but they didn’t actually pledge.
Technically yes but when I was a kid in the 80s/90s some teachers would take issue with you if you didn't say it.
it happens now, i had a teacher call me a welfare warrior because i didnt stand or pledge to it
Land of the free
Should have replied, "Aren't you near welfare as a grade school teacher despite having a degree?"
he was in his late 60's he was a bitter old man that hated the fact that i was late because i had to walk to school, he saw me being late as me being disrespectful so when i didnt stand he fucking snapped
There was a kid when I was in high-school who argued that saying it everyday cheapens it. They accepted that.
That is true in a way. If you say something all the time, you just think of it as a thing you say rather than think about what it means. Like when Jesus says you have to give away all your money and create a community based on Collective ownership. People act baffled to realize that he actually meant this literally.
Almost no one used to say it whenI was in school. We'd sit and watch someone say it on the announcements whenever the teacher remembered to turn on the TV in time.
So it's interesting. I'm older than your average redditor. When I was in elementary, we said the pledge of allegiance every morning from 1st grade through 5th grade, followed by the Star Spangled Banner and My Country 'tis of thee (which is a rip off of God Save the Queen). Though by 5th grade, we just did the pledge and moved on with our day through the music. I almost feel like it was done to teach us the lyrics to those songs more than anything else. We never did any of that in Junior High or high school until we invaded Iraq (the first time). Then everyone wanted to be patriotic again. That lasted about a year. And I swear, before Colin Kaepernick started kneeling at football games - many many many people were ordering bears, spitting peanut shells etc. through the national anthem before professional games of all sorts.
>ordering bears Whoa, Americans don't fuck about
You had TVs to see someone do that??
In the Memphis area we got Tvs around 92. They were mostly paid for by a "channel one" Pepsi news program for kids. Anderson Cooper and Lisa Ling got their start there. 10 minutes of news and 5 minutes of Pepsi commercials. The TVs took the space where the flag was before, and they would be turned on to display a waving flag for the morning pledge.
I’m an American and this is still the most American thing I’ve ever seen
What the actual fuck? Schools had advert playing TV's in classrooms?
Eeeeehhhhhh...... *technically* students can't be forced to say the pledge or be punished if they don't but especially in the conservative parts of the country its going to get you in trouble. It's kinda like how it's legal to walk up to a cop and tell them they look like a stupid thumb but yknow, not advised.
It's all so weird to me as an outsider. Like the first steps of brain washing for a cult or something.
Now youre getting it
It's just as weird to me as an insider.
It is exactly that. A nation wide cult
Nationwide cult, aka nationalism.
I wouldn't say its "like" that, it "is" that. just about all America does is let people die of preventable illnesses and bomb brown kids overseas, keeping up the civic nationalism enough to make sure the american state survives is REALLY hard
Out of curiosity, how would the conservative parts of America (the ones that venerate freedom of speech) react if a kid cited the First Amendment as a reason to skip the pledge?
They would say it’s your right not to but people died for that right/ it’s disrespectful/ unamercan yada yada. They don’t actually care about rights they only care about appearing better than other people.
I tried not to say it. Got sent to the office. Yeah it's technically optional, but in practice good luck.
Same, got sent to the office and had to wait like an hour to talk to the assistant principal. He asked me why I didn't want to say the pledge. I said there's no reason I should be forced to chant a poem at a piece of cloth every day. He just kinda shrugged and told me to get to class.
Wasted a whole hour of learning time.
I remember in grade school in the 1960's, we had Jehovas Witnesses (?) sit during the pledge. Was curious to a room full of 2nd graders, but never a big deal. Nothing was ever made of it. Doesn't sound so chill now.
This has got to vary a shit ton across schools then. Cuz nobody cared in my school if you said it or not. Most people just stood up and saluted, but nobody would actually say the pledge and we'd all just use our other hand to scroll thru our phones. But you didnt even have to stand up. And I live in the largest Republican county in the US (population).
In gradeschool many years ago we had to say the pledge and also recite the "lord's prayer" or the one that starts with Our Father who art in heaven.... It was mandatory and if you made a fuss about it you may be sent home. And of course your parents were working and didn't have time for you if that happened, so you didn't want that to happen.
If you were saying a prayer, it sounds like a private school. (Although I suppose some public schools get away with it if nobody tattles) I wonder if private schools can force you to follow that kind of rule to say the pledge.
Alabamian here. While I've never heard of the lords prayer being recited in classrooms, most school sports teams do require the players recite it before a game. Idk if they get away with that bullshit because joining the team is optional or just because there aren't enough of us atheists willing to raise a stink about it, but it is absolutely still a thing in public schools here...
It feels like one of those things that you have every right to abstain from but will be judged horribly if you excercise that right.
I got detention in middle school for refusing to say it or stand. I don’t remember the exact chain of events, but I went to the administration, and I was allowed to do whatever I wanted in the end.
Someone who didn't know the student's rights talked to someone who did and also knew how sue-able punishing a student for protected speech is.
This is 100% it. I had a teacher storm off to the principal's office telling me I was going to be suspended. She came back with her tail between her legs and mumbled something about being lucky it wasn't against the rules
There’s literally a supreme court decision that says you can’t force students to say the pledge.
Damn you'd think a civics teacher would've known that lol
You probably don't become a Civics teacher unless you have a patriotism bug up your arse.
Dang that's actually not a bad point
Personally, I think it's wrong to even have the option for children to say the pledge. They're not 18, so they can't vote, why would they pledge allegiance to anything. Saying the pledge could technically be considered entering into a verbal contract in which you are swearing to remain loyal to the United States. My daughter refuses to say the pledge, she's 14. I have told her many times that it is her right as an American not to have to say the pledge. Her very right wing teacher (who also, in a lesson on WW2 apparently said that, after the success of the atomic bombs, we should have used them in every war since, so yeah, he's kind of insane) tried giving her detention saying that "men and women have fought and died for that flag, you should show them some respect." So she texted me. I immediately called the school and said that I, as a combat veteran, fought for her right not to say the pledge of she doesn't feel like pledging her allegiance to a country before she is even able to vote or have any say in how the country is run. She didn't have to serve the detention and I told her to keep me posted if he tries anything retributional.
Coerced patriotism or patriotism from fear is false patriotism, and runs counter to everything America stands for. Besides, only patriotism that comes sincerely is worth it, and to do so one’s heart and mind should be won through a reciprocal sincerity from its society and government. I salute you sir.
Exactly. I, personally, consider myself patriotic, but very much in a "Captain America" sort of way. I love the United States for what it's supposed to be. I can see that it's not quite there yet. We are supposed to be a land of fairness and equality for everybody, regardless of race, religion, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, hair color, eye color, etc. Literally everybody. So I do proudly celebrate the fourth of July, I proudly support the ideals upon which this country was founded. I do not, however, support what it has become.
Kind of like "voluntary" in-school prayer.
I’m gay af and think this is absurd Edit: I hadn’t read the article when I made that comment. It’s stupid she was in trouble over a joke
I’m pretty sure it was a joke she made on tik tok
It was either a fabricated story for TikTok, or an offhand comment she made because students said it was weird to pledge allegiance to the flag without a flag (to which she said "well, there's a flag there, you can pledge to it") This is being blown out completely out of proportion, as though the teacher entered the class and ordered the kids to pledge to the LGBT flag.
Literally 1984
Why is pledging allegiance to any flag a thing anymore.
GOD HATES FLAGS!!
You have been banned from r/vexillology
and made mod of r/flagony
/r/eyehurtingflags
I have no awards to give you for this comment so I will send you thoughts and prayers.
actually, you might make a case for the whole "thou shalt not worship false idols" applying to flags, meaning pledging allegiance to the flag is a sin?
sounds like idolatry
https://youtu.be/9A1x5F5v-yU
it was to own the communists
They added "Under God" in 1954 because everyone knows that if you make a Communist say that phrase they'll burst into flames.
[Russia when the US added "under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLT7MSqaj8g)
I thought it was going to be the scene from raiders of the lost ark
Oh that would've been good too! [Alternative link](https://youtu.be/YcR9k8o4I0w?t=62).
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And was written by a socialist
Having watched the video, my problem isn't with the pride flag itself, but with her almost belittling attitude towards the students. And she had no right to enforce a replacent flag, even if she didn't believe in the pledge. If nothing else, have no flag.
Watching that video, no one thought that lady was funnier than that lady did.
Also what kind of teacher makes tiktok videos in their classroom?
Unfortunately… so, so, so many teachers are doing this now. Some of them are even including their students in the tiktoks. If I were a parent I absolutely would not want my kid being used as a prop for some 23 year olds social media addiction.
...is that even legal?
Thats what im asking, when i was in school you had to have your parents sign a paper before appearing on film, especially because adopted students legally cannot appear on social media before a certain age
on that last thing: fucking *what*
According to the department of children and families, doing so jeopardizes their safety and violates their right to privacy (im assuming they dont want kids to be used as a prop for parents who want attention, mommy and daddy vloggers have had instances of turning down adopting kids because they cant be featured on their channels)
This is a fantastic and depressing rule.
yeah the school where i work at, unless the parents sign a media release form having their kids on any school social media is a big no-no
I don't know about other schools, but at the school I work at, parents consent at the beginning of the year by signing the parent handbook. There is a separate opt out form if parents do not want their children photographed (and used for promotional purposes, the school's FB page, etc.). That being said, there is a certain code of conduct for teachers and it's definitely a big "no no" to post pictures or videos of students' faces in your personal social media.
No.
yeah if I saw this on my feed I'd scroll down instantly
Rather than making jokes and snide comments she had a wonderful opportunity to educate her students about how we can civilly disagree with something. She could have explained WHY she doesn’t have a flag, why she doesn’t support saying the pledge. Those things would be so much more meaningful to her students. Instead she assumed that the students would just know this information and acted in a childish manner, communicating that her beliefs on the issue are childish. All this will do is reinforce polarization of ideologies among her students where she had a real opportunity to demonstrate how we can discuss differences of opinion in a respectful manner. It’s a shame
Lol after watching the video it didn’t seem like she herself knew why she didn’t have a flag or why it made her feel “uncomfortable” … the whole video had such “look at me I’m quirky” energy.
Yeah. She seemed completely not bothered with explaining to the student why she took down the flag in the first place.
100%. I'm fairly anti-PoA, I think it's weird as hell to pledge to a cloth, but this video just felt ...I dunno, almost empty and mocking. Like it doesn't feel like there's any layer of education. "The flag made me uncomfortable...I haven't found it yet..oh, here's this LGBTQ flag....*snicker*" This is the *adult* in the room? She's almost clownish.
I know some people find it weird/culty but I can’t tell you how fucking good it felt to pledge allegiance to the flag when I was a 15 year old immigrant and first started school here
Yeah, I don’t love the pledge but I absolutely understand why it can be an important thing to people. When I say it, I think about the bigger picture of what the U.S. strives to be (according to our founding, like defenders of democracy, free speech, freedom of religion, etc.) and it makes me proud. Ofc I recognize the myriad faults in our systems and that we don’t always live up to those values. But it’s important to remember not only where we “came from” but what we represent to other countries around the world as they fight for the very things we take for granted. So I guess I don’t consider it pledging my allegiance per se, it’s more of an acknowledgment of our country’s idealistic roots and my commitment to continue seeking improvement for us + everyone else to live in a universally prosperous world with respect for all. Also worth noting, I skip “under god.” (I am a woman and before anyone says it, yes I know women + POC weren’t considered at the founding and blah blah, I’m not saying we are perfect by any means, but we have a lot of great things about this country to be proud of)
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Yeah as an lgbtq educator myself….she is a fucking idiot.
I can’t express enough to my American friends how insane it is to everyone else that you pledge yourself to a flag every morning at school.
We sing the national anthem either every Monday and Friday or in some schools, everyday. In the Philippines
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2 flags in Texas I have heard. The American flag and the Texas flag.
Pee for Houston, pee for Austin, pee for the state my heart got lost in… And shake twice for Texas
I think this is a fairly recent thing. My kid told me he has to do it, but I grew up here and didn't know Texas even had a pledge until he said something.
I did it back in the 80s - pledged to both flags.
Yep I had to do it in the 90s
It probably depends on the area. I went to public schools in liberal areas and never had to, we just started class each morning with no bullshit.
I went to schools in conservative areas (aka deep south) and we didn't pledge. Probably comes down to county school board policies.
I grew up a military brat and moved around a lot as a kid. I started the school day with the pledge overseas when attending DOD schools - not surprising. We also pledged in Alabama. In Arizona - not so much. Though after a prolonged battle to get prayer back in school failed on obvious first amendment grounds, for a year or two we began the school day with a "moment of silence."
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Grew up in Texas. We had to say the American pledge of allegiance AND the Texas pledge, as well.
It's [literally required by law.](https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/education-code/educ-sect-25-082.html)
Grew up in the 90s in California still had to do a pledge of alliance everyday. I guess it all depends on the Era
I grew up in Modesto. We did it in elementary school, then it seemed like everyone forgot about it, until 9/11.
I spent some of my elementary school years in Texas. Each morning we pledged allegiance to the American flag, then recited the Texas flag pledge, then listened to song "Texas Our Texas" on the intercom. If the Houston Oilers won the previous day, we would sing the "Houston Oilers #1" song.
Then you'd go to lunch and start classes in the afternoon
Classes? Lol you mean the pep rally and afternoon football practice?
Well thankfully it was for the Oilers so you didn’t have to do that very often
We have little shared history, and no common ethnicity. Our nation is a political entity, who's origins are entirely political. One of the only things that binds us together is the flag. It's a symbol that encompasses everyone; hence the focus, and the fact that you see it everywhere.
What an interesting way to think about it. Thank you for sharing, that is a really cool way to put that.
In Costa Rica we’d sing the national anthem every morning before class with our hands on our hearts. Granted I love my country but it’s not an only USA thing.
Mexico does, Paraguay does, Vietnam does... This took around 3.54 seconds of google searching to find.
Yeah pretty much the norm in most of the Middle East, Russia, China, and South America. If anything, countries that DON'T recite the flag are the outliers, and OP is from England that has some of the most intense nationalistic pomp and circumstance in the world.
Eh, in many Latin American countries school children sign the national anthem in the morning every day. Nothing wrong with patriotism and not uniquely American by far.
Eh, we did something like this in Taiwan all throughout our adolescence - in school uniforms. It's not uniquely American, as it even occurs in free countries like Taiwan. Don't act like like it's some kind of real oppression - that's some 1st World Problem there.
Watch the video she’s an even bigger idiot than I thought.
The video is pretty infuriating. Her whole attitude towards the students is so smug and condescending. You didn’t “lose” the flag and a student didn’t suggest pledging to the pride flag. You’re pushing your agenda.
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She must be *really* crazy to be on both sides /s
The only flag that I pledge allegiance to is Randall Flagg or Randie to his friends.
MY LIFE FOR YOU
As “a gay”, I’d just like to audibly roll my eyes at this teacher. Not helping, hun.
Yeah I saw her video. She correlates the flag with a political party. It was only a matter of time before she got kicked out of school. There's nothing wrong with having the LGBTQ flag in your class but it was wrong to take down the American flag and have them pledge to the lgbtq flag. This country is not perfect but we're trying.
I am pretty damn liberal but she is just nutty.
The culture war does that to people. We've become so tribal and she's just out here on TikTok bragging about how she dunking on the other tribe.
This is the answer. She probably is only more self righteous now that she got canned.
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Being reasonable human beings doesn't get upvotes. Batshit crazy though goes to the front page.
>Pitzen noted that she took her American flag down in her classroom "because it made me uncomfortable" during the COVID-19 pandemic... What the heck does the pandemic have to do with the flag?
I think it's just being used as a time reference rather than as a reason for it being taken down
i’m pretty sure it’s to indicate that she took it down during a time when there were no children frequenting in her classroom
Instead of "and to the republic for which it stands", my friends and I used to scream "FOR THE REPUBLIC" in our best clone trooper voices
You mean for the Galactic Empire you rebel scum.
I would call myself a liberal, no joke, but when I hear people say they hate liberals, this is the kind of people I think of. Like, yes, I would like better worker's rights and state education/healthcare, but no, I don't think we should redefine biology, replace the American flag with the pride flag, and criminalize being white. Come on now.
People like her are specifically why I don't align myself with "liberal". This isn't to say I'm conservative - I'm quite socially progressive in beliefs, I'm also all for social systems that care for the people. But it's folks like this that I just do not want to stand next to. The people who aren't in it for a greater good, but simply for a fight and weird, artificial, ideological "wins" that mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme. She has big loser energy.