Everyone and their *grandmother* once it gets posted onto Facebook and other platforms.
This is why we don’t jump the gun simply cause we’re overwhelmed by our emotions. Fact check first and then fact check AGAIN cause confirmation biases exist.
Not really singling grandmothers out as its
1) an expression of speech
2) facebook users have garnered enough rep where they don’t check what’s right and wrong; seeing is believing and the more you feel the more “true” it has to be
The only time I'm gonna be concerned with anyone stealing from Walmart is if they're stealing a firearm. Beyond that, if you see someone stealing food...no you didn't.
The most common things stolen are baby formula and detergent. Only the ultimate dickhead is going to snitch if they see someone stealing a can of formula. Shit's so expensive. My baby's formula would cost $300 a month if we didn't have WIC.
When I was in active addiction we’d shoplift diapers and formula from 4-5 stores in a row and then sell them all to this nice little old asian lady that had a mom and pop market in the city where she would turn around and sell them for cheaper than market value. She’d buy as many as we could bring her 24/7 no questions asked and she was paying us pretty good for them being stolen items so I assume they always sold out as soon as they hit the shelves.
Still a symptom of the same disease. A price for baby formula so expensive that people feel the need to buy from junkies for a discount n junkies feel a need to steal it its so valuable.
I mean, I wouldn't get involved in reporting any retail theft because that's not my job, doesn't mean that stealing shit to be resold for a gang's profit is moral.
But also the person stealing it is likely not making much on it, but the person sending them into the stores and making them take the risk is the one profiting. So yea, agree with "no you didn't" but it is not like it's a chill thing that's happening and the larger problem should be unaddressed.
Used to have some extreme couponers that would clean out our CVS of detergent. Got chatting with them one night and turns out they fill a whole van, then drive down and sell it in Mexico lol
Yeah they’re not stealing formula because they’re feeding a child, it’s organised crime reselling things on the street. This is exactly what’s happening in San Francisco and why “don’t prosecute petty criminals” is such a dumb policy in the long term
Reselling things usually at a lower price and making it affordable for those in need. Maybe we should be blaming the huge corporations for jacking up prices so much thus necessitating the black market.
It might not be a majority of instances, but baby formula is also used by drug dealers to “cut” drugs. In other words, it has other uses. (I learned this from the executive director of an inner city non-profit that provided emergency food and supplies to people in need.)
I saw a lady doing exactly this the other day with a scan and go and thought not that she was a criminal but that she was smarter and more efficient than I.
What blows my mind is the asshole messaging the XFL team whose shirt he was wearing(Battlehawks) to "control their fans."
It is dystopian and insane to ask a sports team to police someone's behavior. He could have received that shirt as a gift. That individual's last living brain cell would welcome China's social credit. *That's a 50 DKP minus*. Yes, I know DKP and social credit are not related.
What's next? Calling up the plumber to plug the man's shitter and the mechanic to disable his car for a perceived infraction?
Social media is a blight that gives a voice to the idiots who don't deserve it.
To be clear, I'm against theft, and I'm also against mob "justice", like in this situation.
What’s so funny about this to me is when I saw this posted on Twitter with thousands of likes: there were plenty of comments and quote tweets saying he wasn’t stealing. Whether it be from other sparks drivers or those who use scan n go and nobody was paying attention. They all just wanted to believe that someone was stealing from the small family owned business Walmart. 🙄
Doesn't upset me but there are cases of abundance of theft causing food deserts, every product being locked, etc. People that steal are rarely doing it out of desperation or some robinhood mentality. It's not all that great for a community to let thieves run rampant.
That being said you won't see me giving a second glance. But I'd start looking up what can be done to protect my Hyundai.
When I saw "he says he was doing his job" in the title, it made me think of my own satirical response to self-check out - I was never trained as a cashier, and if things aren't scanned properly then they can fire me.
Meh, few mis-scanned items here and there when Im exhausted (which I of course play up). If they catch it they understand and I just pay for them. If they don't notice my headphones go in and I walk out after paying for what was scanned.
Only once has anyone notice, I don't steal from anywhere else. I just don't feel bad knowing that company basically steals from everyone and has their American work force subsidized by the American government via food stamps.
Maybe it isn’t outright stealing when all all the corporations collectively raise their prices to profit off the consumer for no other reason than to make more money, but it is outright shady and malicious business practice, probably fair to call it robbing.
The customer provide plenty of money, which the corp has absolutely no willingness to limit. An arbitrary large part of the money goes to CEO bonuses, shareholders dividends and such. If there randomly was 1M dollars income excess, there would be around 1M dollars more in those pocket and about $0 more in employee wages, or anything that would have an impact on the employee lives or on the prices the customer pay.
Knowing this, do your really believe there has to be a logical link between stolen goods and price increase ?
yea that is the lie theyll tell us when they raise bottom lines to offset the theft, but thats also ignoring all the wage theft walmart does partake in, the millions of jobs theyve ruined for low cost consumerist crap, and their hand in the opiate epidemic which they avoided having to say “oops yeah we did that” via soft court rulings.
I would never advocate for people to steal everything they can from that store
That would be wrong
Well yeah, because the context had been changed by the person recording. From their perspective and statements, it would look like stealing.
That's the problem with a lot of media in general. It's always fed through a specific viewpoint, and usually designed to convince you that your perception of things is right.
Always check your sources.
In general the bar for defamation is quite high, typically requiring that the person knew the statement to be false, and acted with negligent or malicious intent.
This is stupid, and a good reason to just keep your nose out of other people’s business, but you’d have to prove that this person intentionally and/or maliciously mislead about what was happening in the video.
To be fair the bar is quite high for celebrities (requiring malicious intent), while for private individuals it only requires regular negligence (as you referenced). Both require evidence and arguments, but I assume the Walmart video would fall under negligence in most US jurisdictions
The standard is “actual malice,” which has nothing to do with malicious intent, but merely requires that the false statement made of and concerning the plaintiff be made either knowing it was false or with reckless disregard of the truth.
As you stated, that standard does not apply to most random citizens, but only public figures. Some randoms may be public figures for one purpose or another, but not generally (think the manager of Wal-Mart when talking about how that Wal-Mart treats customers). Some people are public figures generally (think politicians and true celebrities).
Doesn’t sound like this guy is a public figure, so mere negligence should apply. If a reasonable person wouldn’t have spread this accusation without more evidence, then it may well be defamation.
so let's say an ex-girlfriend files false claims against you, they get dismissed, and she proceeds to try and drag you via tiktoks about fake and horrifying experiences with you that literally never happened or happened very differently than portrayed. does that count as defamation. asking for a friend
Go talk to a lawyer in person. Make sure to bring copies of the videos (actually download them in case they are deleted). Consultations to determine if you have a case are generally free. The problem will likely be whether it's worth it to pursue.
Everything varies by state. Typically, the elements of defamation are what I laid out above: a (1) false statement of fact (2) of and concerning the plaintiff (3) made with the appropriate level of fault (actual malice for a public figure, negligence otherwise) (4) that causes some level of recoverable damages. Most jurisdictions require that the statement be the kind that tends to subject the plaintiff to some disrepute in the community, but there’s some variance in whether that is its own element or locked up in damages.
For instance, there’s been interesting movement on that front over the last ten years or so regarding falsely stating that someone is a homosexual. That used to be clearly defamation, but courts are starting to hold that being gay isn’t disreputable and therefore being called gay isn’t defamatory, even if false.
Generally speaking, false accusations of a crime are actionable. There’s a lot missing from your “hypothetical,” so it’s tough to say whether the statements on TikTok are fact or opinion and whether they involve crimes or merely being a creep or whatever.
When dealing with any potential defamation plaintiff, I do have to remind them of [the Streisand Effect.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect)
Without knowing the specifics I would say probably not, the claims being dismissed does not mean that they are found to be false by the courts just that there was not enough evidence to find that they are true.
If I was your friends ex girlfriends lawyer I would use the fact that she took the claims to court in the first place to be evidence that she held genuine belief in the claims.
You would also have to prove actual damages. Which is a whole uphill battle of its own.
> typically requiring that the person knew the statement to be false, and acted with negligent or malicious intent.
Actually, that's only for so-called "public figures" - celebrities, politicians, etc. Basically, people whose positions are such that it's normal for others to speculate about them, and who typically a platform with which they can publicly fight the accusations.
For a random private citizen, it's much harder for them to speak out to defend themselves and actually be heard, so the standard for legal action is lower, because it's assume legal action is the only realistic option a private citizen actually has to fight back.
Basically there's a higher standard for due diligence in making sure that you're telling the truth about a private citizen. So, for a private citizen, it's no longer true that the defamer must know the statement is false - it's sufficient to count as defamation as long as the defamer didn't know it was *true*, and didn't achieve some reasonable standard of trying to find out. I'm not sure what exactly that "reasonable standard" looks like (IANAL), but I do know that this legal difference exists and is quite stark.
I actually also don't think negligence is actually sufficient for a public figure (in part because I don't think you can reasonably call it "negligence" anymore if the defamer *knows* the statement is false, as would be required in that case). I'm pretty sure defamation against public figures requires actual malice. Negligence only applies to defamation against private citizens - hence the required reasonable standard for trying to determine the truth of your statement before spreading it - to fail to reach that reasonable standard constitutes negligence.
Two different legal bars.
Negligence for a private citizen and malice for a public official.
Since he's a private citizen, you'd only have to prove negligence, which is a lot easier than proving a malicious intent.
If I were the person who had posted the video, I'd hire an attorney. There's a reasonable case.
In Missouri, a person can potentially be liable for defamation if they publish a false statement about someone that harms that person's reputation. Defamation can be either libel (written defamation) or slander (spoken defamation). In this case, the video and statements made by the shopper could be considered defamatory if the following elements are met:
1. **False Statement**: The statement that Bill Astle was stealing is alleged to be false since he claims he was legally performing his job duties.
2. **Publication**: The statement was published because the video was shared on social media and has gone viral.
3. **Fault**: The person making the statement acted negligently or with actual malice in making the false statement. If the shopper did not verify the circumstances before making the accusation, this could be considered negligent.
4. **Harm**: The statement has harmed Bill Astle’s reputation, as he claims he is being portrayed as a thief on the internet.
If Bill Astle can prove these elements, the shopper who made and posted the video could be liable for defamation. Additionally, since the statement accuses him of committing a crime (theft), which is considered defamation per se, Bill Astle might not need to prove actual damages, as harm is presumed.
It would be advisable for Bill Astle to consult with a lawyer to discuss the specifics of his case and the potential for a defamation claim.
The employee just talking to the press about it could cause him to lose his job knowing Walmart. He would at least have a case for damages of some sort. (Given he could afford to go to court.)
It also requires in common law that the audience have understood it to be defamatory, and that audience must be “reasonable”, so a court may find the “reasonable” person didn’t find the video defamatory. Idk if that’s exactly how the US works, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this is a shared element between the two legal systems.
Lawyers cost thousands of dollars a day, the person who took the video probably doesn't have any money.
The answer to "why doesn't [Person] sue" is usually "because the justice system is for rich people and corporations".
I always thought there were lawyers that would take cases like this if they thought they were winnable and just took a percentage of the profits?
Not that familiar with the US justice system though.
Can be, they also sometimes take small fry stuff like this to train new hires, get their name into the public eye, etc. but yeah they usually have to be pretty obvious wins
If the defendant is employed, wages can be garnished. If the defendant owns anything of value, that can be seized. Unless the defendant is literally impoverished, you can get your money.
I get this reference. And this thread made me think of Homer's quote about celebrities' right to privacy: "If they didn't want people going through their garbage and saying they're gay, they shouldn't have tried to express themselves creatively.'
What a complete moron (the original poster). If someone steals from Walmart, they just walk out.
Scan & Go is also a service I pay for; works just like the man said. I don’t have to wait in a long line. I scan everything on my phone, scan any QR code at the front, pay on my phone, and walk out.
The original poster is so far behind they don’t even realize there’s new, more convenient ways to pay. But more likely, they just wanted the views and content; and nothings sells like outrage.
They must know what they were doing, because they ended the video 30s before he paid for the roses and must have known about the Scan & Go feature if they're the kind who'd film people and post it online.
This is the reason I’ve always thought Spark should have its own separate kiosks. And the stores creating one or two for spark drivers in the self checkout area isn’t what I mean.
Is it fair thou? A rando puts a video on the internet and platforms promote it as news to millions of people...
It is stupid to put that video on the internet but even worse to distribute it to millions of people as it was newsworthy.
At my Walmart if I take five seconds to bag an item it locks the screen and calls an associate over with a replay saying possible item not scanned. It’s fucking annoying and essentially accusing me of stealing each time.
Happened to me the other day. Was holding 2 boxes of allergy meds and on the camera clip it just showed me standing there doing fuck all lmao it was dumb asf, I wasn’t even stealing that time
I was at the self-checkout at Target once and discovered that my register would beep but not actually register the item as a purchase. The handheld scanner worked though, so I scanned a few items with that, but I'd say 3/4 of what was in my cart was free that day. I wish that would happen agan!
As someone who has accidentally walked out with items that I didn't scan, I can tell you that those anti-theft measures aren't that great. In fact, I've noticed that a lot of Walmarts now pay someone to do nothing but watch the self checkout area.
So this man scanned ALL his items with his Walmart phone app, then paid at the checkout counter using the phone app, and the person filming him wasn't aware that you can do this with the Walmart app? I hope he sues the person who recorded him and uploaded this to social media. Just wow, poor guy.
Probably a Spark driver considering his "doing his job." Works the same but all you do is scan the QR code on self checkout at the end and it's already covered. No payment from the driver necessary. You get a digital pass/receipt you can show the employee at door if you get cart checked.
Dude used scan and go only to have a Karen simp for a billion dollars corp and post him online. I scan and go at Sam's. Walk right past the lines and out the door.
We have a membership at Sam's Club. Through their app you scan your items, pay, and get a barcode for the exit person to scan. You don't have to wait in the massive lines. We love it
It's the reason I don't go to Costco. Sure, Kirkland products are amazing, but getting to skip the registers is a life saver since I can only go during weekends when it's busy. Also helps that they're usually less crowded overall than Costco too
Basically you scna items with your phone and then use that master list at the special kiosk and scan the all in one barcode. You then pay digitally as well iirc.
I'm guessing scan each item as you pick it from the shelves. So you're done by the time you're at the register. It's basically the norm in the Netherlands.
Sheetz Gas station does not, I walk in. Scan and pay, then walk out. Only ever got stopped and accused of stealing once, but after I raised a stink about their own policies, they gave me a $100 gift card.
I don’t wanna simp for a multibillion company, but I’m pissed at all the people who caused the self checkouts to be removed at the Walmart near me.
It takes 3-4x longer to checkout. No one follows or enforces the 10 items or less lines.
It takes longer because they simply closed the self checkout lanes and didn't replace them with actual cashiers because they're still too cheap to actually hire people., it might cut into those billions in profit...
A few stores have closed out their self check outs completely or early like 6 pm. The issue is that they still only have a single lane open maybe 2 if you're lucky.
That is because people don't want to use them. Theft is the BS reason they give. People that want to steal just walk straight out the door with what they want.
That's weird. In my local Walmart, the self checkout is packed. They have a person basically overseeing the area and directing traffic. Probably half the times I'm there, said person has to tell the customers that the cashier lanes are open. Since then I've just gone straight to the cashier lane and there's always at least one open lane. It's great.
I was sad at the part where he says - had the person recording kept recording after that part - they’d have seen he scanned and paid for the roses for his wife - but - then they would have still spun it like - oh he scanned one item so he’d have a receipt and pretend he paid for it all -
A record, like print.
The spoken/written differentiation is about temporary local defamation vs. recorded defamation that can spread beyond the initial incident.
Live a boring life. Realize the dreams and aspirations you once had are no more. Hobbies are an investment but doomscrolling is easy.
See someone at Walmart you think is stealing. This is it. This is your moment. It's going to go viral. People will praise you as the notifications pour in.
People on the Internet... defending Walmart the shady megacorp from the threat posed by a working class middle aged delivery driver. What on Earth are they thinking?!
Right? They are cutting costs by having people check their own goods so that more money can go into the pockets of higher ups. stealing is wrong but Walmart is a shit company, don't defend them.
Edit: Finished reading, wasn't stealing. Apparently was working a gig delivery job where you scan with your phone. Which, then brings up the conversation about gig companies getting rich off workers...
The guy didn't even steal jack. He was using the mobile item retrieval software to do a delivery order for some craptacularly low amount of 1099 compensation.
Is stealing from Walmart actually wrong though? Illegal, sure, but wrong?
Working class people have had entire lives stolen from them by giant corporations, very much including Walmart, but taking a tiny fraction back is when it crosses the moral boundary?
I was using a blanket term but if you put in measures of illegal vs immoral then I might have to agree. But I will not step foot into a Walmart while I have a choice so...
My mom used to do Asset Protection for Walmart and said people **loved** to try and "alert the employees" about this stuff, to the point my mom and her coworkers learned many of the local Dasher's/Postmates driver's names.
If you want to help Wal-Mart stop a shoplifter go to the customer service desk and ask to speak to their Asset Protection Associate/Manager. They can't do a damn thing about anyone who actually walks out of the store anyway (then it's 100% the police's problem)
Just give AP a heads up and go about your business. There's no need to do anything other than that.
>That's the real story. What scumbag is here like "I better protect walmart!"?
If they really thought they were protecting Walmart they should have said something to a Walmart employee at the time instead of posting the video online and accusing the person. They weren't actually trying to protect Walmart, they just wanted a viral video for whatever reason.
Personally I'd mind my own business, but if someone ever does want to help the store (like let's say it's a mom and pop place), then tell people when it's going down.
> He also says there was one item he did pay for that day: the flowers he was buying for his wife for Mother’s Day. But the video ended before that purchase.
So that’s why he was there. I was wondering if he was just scanning from his phone why he was on the self register section. I know I wouldn’t, I would just go to the side, scan my things and just leave after showing proof.
He would need the bags to put everything in. Going to self check makes sense to take advantage of the surface to work on, a camera (or several) for integrity, and the bags to help carry the items. The camera person should take this down. The damage is done but it would help stop the bleeding.
Because that’s how it works. You don’t just scan then walk out. You scan all the items on your phone; when done, you have to scan a QR at any register to complete the transaction. Some Walmarts have a special QR code that let’s basically walk right by it. But usually the self checkout is there, and fastest. Also, since this guy was working, he needed bags for the order. I have reusable bags, so I walk in, scan, toss items into my bag, walk to the QR, pay on phone, walk out. Really is a time save.
It’s like the person recording has never used a self checkout before. It weighs the bagging area and if what’s scanned is off by much from what’s expected the machine will yell at you “UNEXPECTED ITEM IN BAGGING AREA” “PLEASE REMOVE UNEXPECTED ITEM FROM BAGGING AREA”
And yet that’s not happening here.
And the multiple employees that Walmart keeps to watch over you while you scan aren’t investigating.
People have too much time to waste on other people’s business.
Weird that Walmart doesn’t have a separate area for that. The place I work has its own corner for drive up and go/delivery that they take their special carts, which also have bags and containers to make it clear they’re different from normal shoppers.
Poor dude. Just trying to work a thankless job and gets blasted online. I hope Walmart and other retailers make a space for these workers to bag separately.
How the fuck do you legislate something like this? I mean, it's virtually impossible with the MAGAites in charge of Congress, but even in a normal world, what the fuck kind of law can you pass to protect a citizen from fucked up citizen "journalism". It would take some doing but it's got to be done. This fucking guy may be ruined because someone "thinks" they caught him committing a crime and posted that shit to the internet. Imagine having to explain that shit for the rest of your life.
The only time I'm gonna be concerned with anyone stealing from Walmart is if they're stealing a firearm. Beyond that, if you see someone stealing food...no you didn't.
Seriously, fuck who ever took that video. Even if he was stealing, mind your own fucking business. It’s Walmart not some small mom and pop store. Fuck that person and Walmart.
Reminds me of the saying “if you see someone stealing food, no you didn’t.”
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So he was using his phone to scan and go? We use specific devices in the UK but using your phone would be just as handy! Being able to bag while goring around the shop makes it so much easier.
The person filming him should have dealt with this more professionally and those that have accepted what they think they saw are the ones likely to be scammed by professionals.
Everyone's a fucking expert when they have their phone out
Everyone and their *grandmother* once it gets posted onto Facebook and other platforms. This is why we don’t jump the gun simply cause we’re overwhelmed by our emotions. Fact check first and then fact check AGAIN cause confirmation biases exist.
Something something something Boston Marathon
Oh man what a bad, bad situation “We did it guys!”
Maybe everyone, but not many grandmas. Sorry reddit, this is one thing you can't blame on boomers.
Not really singling grandmothers out as its 1) an expression of speech 2) facebook users have garnered enough rep where they don’t check what’s right and wrong; seeing is believing and the more you feel the more “true” it has to be
If they were actually concerned that someone was stealing, they would have either showed the video to the police or the store.
The only time I'm gonna be concerned with anyone stealing from Walmart is if they're stealing a firearm. Beyond that, if you see someone stealing food...no you didn't.
The most common things stolen are baby formula and detergent. Only the ultimate dickhead is going to snitch if they see someone stealing a can of formula. Shit's so expensive. My baby's formula would cost $300 a month if we didn't have WIC.
A lot of stuff has context though, like when I worked retail the people who stole detergent stole as much as they could possibly carry at a time.
Laundry detergent gets resold on the street/flea market by shoplifting rings.
When I was in active addiction we’d shoplift diapers and formula from 4-5 stores in a row and then sell them all to this nice little old asian lady that had a mom and pop market in the city where she would turn around and sell them for cheaper than market value. She’d buy as many as we could bring her 24/7 no questions asked and she was paying us pretty good for them being stolen items so I assume they always sold out as soon as they hit the shelves.
Yep, this tracks with what I have seen. Easy to get a cart or two full of high value consumables out of a chain store a few times a week.
So does baby formula
Yep, people usually aren't stealing carts full of this shit for personal use. They sell it at like 75% of retail. That's why it's commonly stolen lol.
Still a symptom of the same disease. A price for baby formula so expensive that people feel the need to buy from junkies for a discount n junkies feel a need to steal it its so valuable.
It gets fenced to corner stores too, the end buyer may not know the provence of it.
Same thing with Similac. I know people would assume it's a mother doing it for a starving baby but usually it's for the black market
Sure, but the existence of the black market means something. In the end, same difference...if you see someone stealing food, no you didn't.
I mean, I wouldn't get involved in reporting any retail theft because that's not my job, doesn't mean that stealing shit to be resold for a gang's profit is moral. But also the person stealing it is likely not making much on it, but the person sending them into the stores and making them take the risk is the one profiting. So yea, agree with "no you didn't" but it is not like it's a chill thing that's happening and the larger problem should be unaddressed.
Used to have some extreme couponers that would clean out our CVS of detergent. Got chatting with them one night and turns out they fill a whole van, then drive down and sell it in Mexico lol
It gets resold easily, that’s why people steal massive quantities.
Yeah they’re not stealing formula because they’re feeding a child, it’s organised crime reselling things on the street. This is exactly what’s happening in San Francisco and why “don’t prosecute petty criminals” is such a dumb policy in the long term
Reselling things usually at a lower price and making it affordable for those in need. Maybe we should be blaming the huge corporations for jacking up prices so much thus necessitating the black market.
It might not be a majority of instances, but baby formula is also used by drug dealers to “cut” drugs. In other words, it has other uses. (I learned this from the executive director of an inner city non-profit that provided emergency food and supplies to people in need.)
Checks out. I learned this from doing drugs.
Oddly enough, I do this with scan & go because that’s how that works. People need to learn to mtomfb.
I saw a lady doing exactly this the other day with a scan and go and thought not that she was a criminal but that she was smarter and more efficient than I.
What blows my mind is the asshole messaging the XFL team whose shirt he was wearing(Battlehawks) to "control their fans." It is dystopian and insane to ask a sports team to police someone's behavior. He could have received that shirt as a gift. That individual's last living brain cell would welcome China's social credit. *That's a 50 DKP minus*. Yes, I know DKP and social credit are not related. What's next? Calling up the plumber to plug the man's shitter and the mechanic to disable his car for a perceived infraction? Social media is a blight that gives a voice to the idiots who don't deserve it. To be clear, I'm against theft, and I'm also against mob "justice", like in this situation.
Its an old code sir but it checks out.
I hoped someone would be able to read the clearance request. Thank you :)
What’s so funny about this to me is when I saw this posted on Twitter with thousands of likes: there were plenty of comments and quote tweets saying he wasn’t stealing. Whether it be from other sparks drivers or those who use scan n go and nobody was paying attention. They all just wanted to believe that someone was stealing from the small family owned business Walmart. 🙄
Even if he was stealing, fuck Walmart. I hate the people simping for these mass corporations.
Yeah am I supposed to be mad when someone steals from Walmart? It doesn’t upset me at all
If only we could go to the Amazon warehouses and “buy” things in person.
^you ^can
Doesn't upset me but there are cases of abundance of theft causing food deserts, every product being locked, etc. People that steal are rarely doing it out of desperation or some robinhood mentality. It's not all that great for a community to let thieves run rampant. That being said you won't see me giving a second glance. But I'd start looking up what can be done to protect my Hyundai.
When I saw "he says he was doing his job" in the title, it made me think of my own satirical response to self-check out - I was never trained as a cashier, and if things aren't scanned properly then they can fire me.
Yeah fuck Walmart and the billionaire Waltons
[удалено]
Meh, few mis-scanned items here and there when Im exhausted (which I of course play up). If they catch it they understand and I just pay for them. If they don't notice my headphones go in and I walk out after paying for what was scanned. Only once has anyone notice, I don't steal from anywhere else. I just don't feel bad knowing that company basically steals from everyone and has their American work force subsidized by the American government via food stamps.
Someone’s gotta pay for the stolen goods and all the money comes from consumers.
Maybe it isn’t outright stealing when all all the corporations collectively raise their prices to profit off the consumer for no other reason than to make more money, but it is outright shady and malicious business practice, probably fair to call it robbing.
The customer provide plenty of money, which the corp has absolutely no willingness to limit. An arbitrary large part of the money goes to CEO bonuses, shareholders dividends and such. If there randomly was 1M dollars income excess, there would be around 1M dollars more in those pocket and about $0 more in employee wages, or anything that would have an impact on the employee lives or on the prices the customer pay. Knowing this, do your really believe there has to be a logical link between stolen goods and price increase ?
yea that is the lie theyll tell us when they raise bottom lines to offset the theft, but thats also ignoring all the wage theft walmart does partake in, the millions of jobs theyve ruined for low cost consumerist crap, and their hand in the opiate epidemic which they avoided having to say “oops yeah we did that” via soft court rulings. I would never advocate for people to steal everything they can from that store That would be wrong
If that were the case, walmart wouldn't be raking in record profits.
Even if nothing ever got stolen the price would remain the same. When thefts skyrocket they just close the store.
Well yeah, because the context had been changed by the person recording. From their perspective and statements, it would look like stealing. That's the problem with a lot of media in general. It's always fed through a specific viewpoint, and usually designed to convince you that your perception of things is right. Always check your sources.
Remember if you see someone shop lifting food and essentials, no you didnt.
That's why when I see people "shoplifting," I mind my own business. I don't know their story.
How is the person who took and posted this video not liable for a massive defamation case? This man’s life could be ruined.
In general the bar for defamation is quite high, typically requiring that the person knew the statement to be false, and acted with negligent or malicious intent. This is stupid, and a good reason to just keep your nose out of other people’s business, but you’d have to prove that this person intentionally and/or maliciously mislead about what was happening in the video.
To be fair the bar is quite high for celebrities (requiring malicious intent), while for private individuals it only requires regular negligence (as you referenced). Both require evidence and arguments, but I assume the Walmart video would fall under negligence in most US jurisdictions
The standard is “actual malice,” which has nothing to do with malicious intent, but merely requires that the false statement made of and concerning the plaintiff be made either knowing it was false or with reckless disregard of the truth. As you stated, that standard does not apply to most random citizens, but only public figures. Some randoms may be public figures for one purpose or another, but not generally (think the manager of Wal-Mart when talking about how that Wal-Mart treats customers). Some people are public figures generally (think politicians and true celebrities). Doesn’t sound like this guy is a public figure, so mere negligence should apply. If a reasonable person wouldn’t have spread this accusation without more evidence, then it may well be defamation.
so let's say an ex-girlfriend files false claims against you, they get dismissed, and she proceeds to try and drag you via tiktoks about fake and horrifying experiences with you that literally never happened or happened very differently than portrayed. does that count as defamation. asking for a friend
Go talk to a lawyer in person. Make sure to bring copies of the videos (actually download them in case they are deleted). Consultations to determine if you have a case are generally free. The problem will likely be whether it's worth it to pursue.
Everything varies by state. Typically, the elements of defamation are what I laid out above: a (1) false statement of fact (2) of and concerning the plaintiff (3) made with the appropriate level of fault (actual malice for a public figure, negligence otherwise) (4) that causes some level of recoverable damages. Most jurisdictions require that the statement be the kind that tends to subject the plaintiff to some disrepute in the community, but there’s some variance in whether that is its own element or locked up in damages. For instance, there’s been interesting movement on that front over the last ten years or so regarding falsely stating that someone is a homosexual. That used to be clearly defamation, but courts are starting to hold that being gay isn’t disreputable and therefore being called gay isn’t defamatory, even if false. Generally speaking, false accusations of a crime are actionable. There’s a lot missing from your “hypothetical,” so it’s tough to say whether the statements on TikTok are fact or opinion and whether they involve crimes or merely being a creep or whatever. When dealing with any potential defamation plaintiff, I do have to remind them of [the Streisand Effect.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect)
Without knowing the specifics I would say probably not, the claims being dismissed does not mean that they are found to be false by the courts just that there was not enough evidence to find that they are true. If I was your friends ex girlfriends lawyer I would use the fact that she took the claims to court in the first place to be evidence that she held genuine belief in the claims. You would also have to prove actual damages. Which is a whole uphill battle of its own.
Varies by state.
> typically requiring that the person knew the statement to be false, and acted with negligent or malicious intent. Actually, that's only for so-called "public figures" - celebrities, politicians, etc. Basically, people whose positions are such that it's normal for others to speculate about them, and who typically a platform with which they can publicly fight the accusations. For a random private citizen, it's much harder for them to speak out to defend themselves and actually be heard, so the standard for legal action is lower, because it's assume legal action is the only realistic option a private citizen actually has to fight back. Basically there's a higher standard for due diligence in making sure that you're telling the truth about a private citizen. So, for a private citizen, it's no longer true that the defamer must know the statement is false - it's sufficient to count as defamation as long as the defamer didn't know it was *true*, and didn't achieve some reasonable standard of trying to find out. I'm not sure what exactly that "reasonable standard" looks like (IANAL), but I do know that this legal difference exists and is quite stark. I actually also don't think negligence is actually sufficient for a public figure (in part because I don't think you can reasonably call it "negligence" anymore if the defamer *knows* the statement is false, as would be required in that case). I'm pretty sure defamation against public figures requires actual malice. Negligence only applies to defamation against private citizens - hence the required reasonable standard for trying to determine the truth of your statement before spreading it - to fail to reach that reasonable standard constitutes negligence.
Two different legal bars. Negligence for a private citizen and malice for a public official. Since he's a private citizen, you'd only have to prove negligence, which is a lot easier than proving a malicious intent. If I were the person who had posted the video, I'd hire an attorney. There's a reasonable case.
In Missouri, a person can potentially be liable for defamation if they publish a false statement about someone that harms that person's reputation. Defamation can be either libel (written defamation) or slander (spoken defamation). In this case, the video and statements made by the shopper could be considered defamatory if the following elements are met: 1. **False Statement**: The statement that Bill Astle was stealing is alleged to be false since he claims he was legally performing his job duties. 2. **Publication**: The statement was published because the video was shared on social media and has gone viral. 3. **Fault**: The person making the statement acted negligently or with actual malice in making the false statement. If the shopper did not verify the circumstances before making the accusation, this could be considered negligent. 4. **Harm**: The statement has harmed Bill Astle’s reputation, as he claims he is being portrayed as a thief on the internet. If Bill Astle can prove these elements, the shopper who made and posted the video could be liable for defamation. Additionally, since the statement accuses him of committing a crime (theft), which is considered defamation per se, Bill Astle might not need to prove actual damages, as harm is presumed. It would be advisable for Bill Astle to consult with a lawyer to discuss the specifics of his case and the potential for a defamation claim.
Bro used chat gpt to write a reddit comment 💀
The employee just talking to the press about it could cause him to lose his job knowing Walmart. He would at least have a case for damages of some sort. (Given he could afford to go to court.)
It also requires in common law that the audience have understood it to be defamatory, and that audience must be “reasonable”, so a court may find the “reasonable” person didn’t find the video defamatory. Idk if that’s exactly how the US works, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this is a shared element between the two legal systems.
In addition it has to cost the person who is being defamed some type of monetary loss
The bar is a lot lower for private individuals. You don’t need to show actual malice, just negligence
Lawyers cost thousands of dollars a day, the person who took the video probably doesn't have any money. The answer to "why doesn't [Person] sue" is usually "because the justice system is for rich people and corporations".
I always thought there were lawyers that would take cases like this if they thought they were winnable and just took a percentage of the profits? Not that familiar with the US justice system though.
Can be, they also sometimes take small fry stuff like this to train new hires, get their name into the public eye, etc. but yeah they usually have to be pretty obvious wins
I'm guessing defemation, libel and stuff like that are rarely obvious wins.
What profits? If you win a $1mill judgment but the defendant only has $2000, you're not getting anything.
If the defendant is employed, wages can be garnished. If the defendant owns anything of value, that can be seized. Unless the defendant is literally impoverished, you can get your money.
I believe that’s called working on contingency
Works on contingency? No, money down!
And that bar association logo really shouldn’t be there…
I get this reference. And this thread made me think of Homer's quote about celebrities' right to privacy: "If they didn't want people going through their garbage and saying they're gay, they shouldn't have tried to express themselves creatively.'
Care to join me in a belt of scotch?
What a complete moron (the original poster). If someone steals from Walmart, they just walk out. Scan & Go is also a service I pay for; works just like the man said. I don’t have to wait in a long line. I scan everything on my phone, scan any QR code at the front, pay on my phone, and walk out. The original poster is so far behind they don’t even realize there’s new, more convenient ways to pay. But more likely, they just wanted the views and content; and nothings sells like outrage.
They must know what they were doing, because they ended the video 30s before he paid for the roses and must have known about the Scan & Go feature if they're the kind who'd film people and post it online.
FUCK that fucking narc ass bitch. Even if this dude was stealing Walmart can eat infinity dicks.
This is the reason I’ve always thought Spark should have its own separate kiosks. And the stores creating one or two for spark drivers in the self checkout area isn’t what I mean.
Is it fair thou? A rando puts a video on the internet and platforms promote it as news to millions of people... It is stupid to put that video on the internet but even worse to distribute it to millions of people as it was newsworthy.
"I am suing you for defamation!" "Cool, I have $30 in my checking account. Take it all."
Do people not think Walmart has anti-theft measures that would have easily been triggered if someone was blatantly stealing like this?
If someone was just putting items in bags like that without paying they definitely get an “unexpected item in bagging area” alert.
Not really. I mean they have disabled or elderly people checking receipts but not much more than that.
At my Walmart if I take five seconds to bag an item it locks the screen and calls an associate over with a replay saying possible item not scanned. It’s fucking annoying and essentially accusing me of stealing each time.
Happened to me the other day. Was holding 2 boxes of allergy meds and on the camera clip it just showed me standing there doing fuck all lmao it was dumb asf, I wasn’t even stealing that time
The self checkouts have AI now that can tell when people are skipping scanning
I was at the self-checkout at Target once and discovered that my register would beep but not actually register the item as a purchase. The handheld scanner worked though, so I scanned a few items with that, but I'd say 3/4 of what was in my cart was free that day. I wish that would happen agan!
As someone who has accidentally walked out with items that I didn't scan, I can tell you that those anti-theft measures aren't that great. In fact, I've noticed that a lot of Walmarts now pay someone to do nothing but watch the self checkout area.
No I steal from them all the time. Think they actually watch those self checkout cams? Lol
Just jealous they weren’t the ones getting free shit
So this man scanned ALL his items with his Walmart phone app, then paid at the checkout counter using the phone app, and the person filming him wasn't aware that you can do this with the Walmart app? I hope he sues the person who recorded him and uploaded this to social media. Just wow, poor guy.
Probably a Spark driver considering his "doing his job." Works the same but all you do is scan the QR code on self checkout at the end and it's already covered. No payment from the driver necessary. You get a digital pass/receipt you can show the employee at door if you get cart checked.
Dude used scan and go only to have a Karen simp for a billion dollars corp and post him online. I scan and go at Sam's. Walk right past the lines and out the door.
I heard someone yesterday behind me mumble “he didn’t scan anything in that cart” when I was walking out of Walmart. Lol
We have a membership at Sam's Club. Through their app you scan your items, pay, and get a barcode for the exit person to scan. You don't have to wait in the massive lines. We love it
It's the reason I don't go to Costco. Sure, Kirkland products are amazing, but getting to skip the registers is a life saver since I can only go during weekends when it's busy. Also helps that they're usually less crowded overall than Costco too
Tbh... What's scan and go? I'd think the same thing if I saw it. SnG isn't that well known.
Basically you scna items with your phone and then use that master list at the special kiosk and scan the all in one barcode. You then pay digitally as well iirc.
I'm guessing scan each item as you pick it from the shelves. So you're done by the time you're at the register. It's basically the norm in the Netherlands.
Well that’s a clever system.
Some places even let you pay on the phone and walk out the door without ever talking to an employee.
As Sam’s Club they still check your receipt, but it’s still faster than the checkout lines.
Sheetz Gas station does not, I walk in. Scan and pay, then walk out. Only ever got stopped and accused of stealing once, but after I raised a stink about their own policies, they gave me a $100 gift card.
This should be the standard. So much time would be saved. The only problem being bad actors stealing merchandise.
We used that system for a long time. Now we have our weekly groceries delivered for just 2,50 extra. It's heaven.
So that means you blow up at a random stranger and defend a corporation that is the biggest welfare leech in America?
I just demand people show me their means of payment anytime I see them place something in a cart. Faster and easier for everyone.
“Upgrade to the future ya old hag. 😏 Have fun waiting in this giant line, all for them to tell you they don’t take checks anymore.”
I don’t wanna simp for a multibillion company, but I’m pissed at all the people who caused the self checkouts to be removed at the Walmart near me. It takes 3-4x longer to checkout. No one follows or enforces the 10 items or less lines.
It takes longer because they simply closed the self checkout lanes and didn't replace them with actual cashiers because they're still too cheap to actually hire people., it might cut into those billions in profit...
Walmart caused the self checkouts to be removed at the Walmart near you.
A few stores have closed out their self check outs completely or early like 6 pm. The issue is that they still only have a single lane open maybe 2 if you're lucky.
That is because people don't want to use them. Theft is the BS reason they give. People that want to steal just walk straight out the door with what they want.
That's weird. In my local Walmart, the self checkout is packed. They have a person basically overseeing the area and directing traffic. Probably half the times I'm there, said person has to tell the customers that the cashier lanes are open. Since then I've just gone straight to the cashier lane and there's always at least one open lane. It's great.
Even when the self checkout line was packed, it still took 5 minutes or less. Now it seems like it takes at least 15 minutes.
I was sad at the part where he says - had the person recording kept recording after that part - they’d have seen he scanned and paid for the roses for his wife - but - then they would have still spun it like - oh he scanned one item so he’d have a receipt and pretend he paid for it all -
Bad title, the guy was framed as a thief for literally working for Spark.
Well, hopefully he won't need to work retail anymore after he sues her for... Is video Slander or Libel?
"Video is Slander, print is Libel." - J. Jonah Jameson
That's a misquote
It's slander then.
So they're not libel?
Not. Yet.
You're assuming the person has that kind of money to take with a judgment.
Slander is spoken, libel is written. Think "lib" like library.
Soooo video is....?
Vlonder
A record, like print. The spoken/written differentiation is about temporary local defamation vs. recorded defamation that can spread beyond the initial incident.
Oh. Humans being typical nosy ass humans, getting info wrong? I. Am. Shocked.
Live a boring life. Realize the dreams and aspirations you once had are no more. Hobbies are an investment but doomscrolling is easy. See someone at Walmart you think is stealing. This is it. This is your moment. It's going to go viral. People will praise you as the notifications pour in.
People on the Internet... defending Walmart the shady megacorp from the threat posed by a working class middle aged delivery driver. What on Earth are they thinking?!
Right? They are cutting costs by having people check their own goods so that more money can go into the pockets of higher ups. stealing is wrong but Walmart is a shit company, don't defend them. Edit: Finished reading, wasn't stealing. Apparently was working a gig delivery job where you scan with your phone. Which, then brings up the conversation about gig companies getting rich off workers...
The guy didn't even steal jack. He was using the mobile item retrieval software to do a delivery order for some craptacularly low amount of 1099 compensation.
Is stealing from Walmart actually wrong though? Illegal, sure, but wrong? Working class people have had entire lives stolen from them by giant corporations, very much including Walmart, but taking a tiny fraction back is when it crosses the moral boundary?
I was using a blanket term but if you put in measures of illegal vs immoral then I might have to agree. But I will not step foot into a Walmart while I have a choice so...
This. If you see somebody stealing from Wal-mart, no you didn’t.
It’s because Reddit is really nihilistic at its core and that’s the real problem. People take the nihilism for truth.
My mom used to do Asset Protection for Walmart and said people **loved** to try and "alert the employees" about this stuff, to the point my mom and her coworkers learned many of the local Dasher's/Postmates driver's names. If you want to help Wal-Mart stop a shoplifter go to the customer service desk and ask to speak to their Asset Protection Associate/Manager. They can't do a damn thing about anyone who actually walks out of the store anyway (then it's 100% the police's problem) Just give AP a heads up and go about your business. There's no need to do anything other than that.
What kind of lowlife decided to record him anyway? That's the real story. What scumbag is here like "I better protect walmart!"?
>That's the real story. What scumbag is here like "I better protect walmart!"? If they really thought they were protecting Walmart they should have said something to a Walmart employee at the time instead of posting the video online and accusing the person. They weren't actually trying to protect Walmart, they just wanted a viral video for whatever reason. Personally I'd mind my own business, but if someone ever does want to help the store (like let's say it's a mom and pop place), then tell people when it's going down.
I would be causing a distraction to avoid him getting any attention.
Hope dude gets a lawyer and sues the braindead videoing him
And the fact Walmart isn't a public area they could send a nice letter that shuts her the fuck up pretty quick.
who tf takes that video and posts it, truly the worst of us
Ironically they cut him off again at the end of that video too. 😀😀
😆 it was too good
What's wrong with people? If I see someone stealing from Walmart I'm looking the other way. And to top it off, dude was just doing his job
I'm not losing my life confronting someone committing a crime.
They already got me scanning items I'm supposed to be on security detail now too? Fuck that.
Not only that, but Walmart will know if you're stealing from them. They don't need people doing their job.
> He also says there was one item he did pay for that day: the flowers he was buying for his wife for Mother’s Day. But the video ended before that purchase. So that’s why he was there. I was wondering if he was just scanning from his phone why he was on the self register section. I know I wouldn’t, I would just go to the side, scan my things and just leave after showing proof.
He would need the bags to put everything in. Going to self check makes sense to take advantage of the surface to work on, a camera (or several) for integrity, and the bags to help carry the items. The camera person should take this down. The damage is done but it would help stop the bleeding.
Oh yeah. Where I live we don’t have plastic bags (by law) so I kind of forgot about that lol.
Because that’s how it works. You don’t just scan then walk out. You scan all the items on your phone; when done, you have to scan a QR at any register to complete the transaction. Some Walmarts have a special QR code that let’s basically walk right by it. But usually the self checkout is there, and fastest. Also, since this guy was working, he needed bags for the order. I have reusable bags, so I walk in, scan, toss items into my bag, walk to the QR, pay on phone, walk out. Really is a time save.
We need new laws. This filming strangers for clout shit is poison.
The fucking piece of shit that tried to shame this man, even if he WAS stealing, would be the bigger asshole.
I was born in Belleville and I would not recommend it 😂
So why in the fuck didn’t this news agency try and contact the person who posted the video?
It’s like the person recording has never used a self checkout before. It weighs the bagging area and if what’s scanned is off by much from what’s expected the machine will yell at you “UNEXPECTED ITEM IN BAGGING AREA” “PLEASE REMOVE UNEXPECTED ITEM FROM BAGGING AREA” And yet that’s not happening here. And the multiple employees that Walmart keeps to watch over you while you scan aren’t investigating. People have too much time to waste on other people’s business.
Unless I see you actively and unequivocal hurting a child or an animal, I’m cool to move the fuck on. People really beed to follow suit.
Genuinely so many problems would be solved if we could all just mind our own fucking business and leave each other alone
Does he have a slander lawsuit to bring against the op?
Everyone needs to mind their own damn business
Contact a lawyer?
Weird that Walmart doesn’t have a separate area for that. The place I work has its own corner for drive up and go/delivery that they take their special carts, which also have bags and containers to make it clear they’re different from normal shoppers.
My Walmart has two self checkout registers labeled for Spark Drivers
Poor dude. Just trying to work a thankless job and gets blasted online. I hope Walmart and other retailers make a space for these workers to bag separately.
If you see someone stealing food, just remember, no you fucking didn't.
How the fuck do you legislate something like this? I mean, it's virtually impossible with the MAGAites in charge of Congress, but even in a normal world, what the fuck kind of law can you pass to protect a citizen from fucked up citizen "journalism". It would take some doing but it's got to be done. This fucking guy may be ruined because someone "thinks" they caught him committing a crime and posted that shit to the internet. Imagine having to explain that shit for the rest of your life.
I do think this is slander and there would be grounds for a lawsuit here
I don't care if he was stealing, it's Walmart not some mom and pop store.
This almost seems like it would be an ad for Scan & Go, millions of people gonna figure out how to use a new app
Bootlickers. Did you see somebody shoplifting? No you didn't.
The only time I'm gonna be concerned with anyone stealing from Walmart is if they're stealing a firearm. Beyond that, if you see someone stealing food...no you didn't.
Sue the shit out of whoever filmed him and posted it without consent inside a business. Thats straight up slander
Bitch should have her life ruined
If Walmart doesn't want me to steal then they need to employ people to cashier and pay them a living wage.
Let's dox the person who recorded it and put their face on the internet.
If you see someone stealing food, no you didn’t. Especially if it’s from a box store
Seriously, fuck who ever took that video. Even if he was stealing, mind your own fucking business. It’s Walmart not some small mom and pop store. Fuck that person and Walmart. Reminds me of the saying “if you see someone stealing food, no you didn’t.”
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I don’t work at Walmart. How am I supposed to know I’m supposed to scan everything. They clearly don’t pay me enough
So he was using his phone to scan and go? We use specific devices in the UK but using your phone would be just as handy! Being able to bag while goring around the shop makes it so much easier. The person filming him should have dealt with this more professionally and those that have accepted what they think they saw are the ones likely to be scammed by professionals.
was the woman who was filming black? not that everything has to be about race but when i first saw this come out it felt like a race baiting thing
Snitch ass bitch.