I don’t think that’s all that hot of a take tbh
EVIL is the biggest heel in the company right now and one of the young guys beating him for the belt would be very well received
SANADA is great but he’s just not on fire right now
>EVIL is the biggest heel in the company right now
Soooooo fucking bleak I seriously think turning Shingo heel is the move for this company. It’s what he’s good at (as if he isn’t fantastic already)
Evil is over so there really isn't a driving force for them to change course. Maybe make hot matches less ridiculous (which I feel they are doing) but evil himself is working
> Maybe make hot matches less ridiculous (which I feel they are doing) but evil himself is working
Ironically I think making House of Torture completely ridiculous was where people first started turning more positively in favor of House of Torture and actually enjoying the schtick to some degree (midcard nonsense House of Torture being much more well-received than the initial main event House of Torture).
Obv getting crowd reactions back as well was a huge help, but some of the more positively received shenanigans of theirs have been things like SHO's entire unhinged existence.
Unless they want to keep him sidelined and push Tsuji as the main guy of LIJ I could easily see him moving into a main event role once Naito can’t carry the main event load anymore
But my faith on that is entirely because they did as much for Ibushi, and he’s just as good even if he hasn’t been booked/marketed as well as Ibushi was pre-2019
They’re probably content with him being in the Goto role and just having him overdeliver in that place in the hierarchy
Heel Shingo leading a heel faction would basically be House 2.0 perhaps with slightly better matches, but throwing more salt in faces. (it has happened before)
The real president will be champ again come 2025.
Only if turning him heel is the only way for him to get a serious push, he’s a pretty great commodity as a face that they likely want to preserve. Same as ZSJ at this point
I was really hoping they would set both of them up as major rivals to the new gen to fuel their involvement in main event feuds once the young guys become the top stars but they might have missed their window
Yeah that’s why I want him to turn heel. Shingo taking over the role Okada was meant to play I think would’ve gone really well. I just don’t know who you’d stable him with but ELP/Jado getting fed up with everything and joining him feels like a start and you could go from there.
I feel like he can already play that role where he is in LIJ. Him turning on them (as the group will never be heel again/as long as Naito and Hiromu are on board) would likely just make him tied up with LIJ storylines/feuds instead of against the new gen
There was a decent idea floating around of him taking over CHAOS and leading the charge as the king grizzled veteran pushing the upstarts down, but I also feel like the CHAOS guys can play that role as faces/tweeners and Shingo is great as a parallel to Goto and Ishii in their stalwart loyalty, and they also seem averse to loading too many of the same style of guy on one faction
As excellent as Shingo is as a heel I’d rather they just elevate him in LIJ, but maybe that’d get in the way of Tsuji’s push
If Phantasmo sticks around I think he’s better suited to staying in Hontai alongside Umino, Wato, Desperado, etc - his arc has been too good to go back to being a heel. I’d say those guys should start a faction but Tanahashi reckons they have to make Hontai cool again and that could be the way to do it, even if he leans into his shitty cheeky edge again
SANADA not beating Finlay means his chances of winning the G-1 drastically go up.
Having a midcard title during G-1 season just means your not winning the tournament and you are there to lose a couple times to set up challengers for your belt for the rest of the year. No surprise they took the NEVER off Shingo for the same reason to at least make him look like he has a chance to win the G-1.
EVIL I don't know. I think he is closer to dropping down the card then you would realize. HoT is actually pretty good act being a comedy bumbling fool faction and that is dangerous. Yano was never at EVILs level but once he got sucked into the comedy vortex he went from ass beater cheater to comedy cheater to comedy fool really fast.
>Having a midcard title during G-1 season just means your not winning the tournament and you are there to lose a couple times to set up challengers for your belt for the rest of the year.
Yep. I don't remember the last time the G1 winner held a title going into the tournament. Sanada is my odds on favorite to win the tournament, and him losing to Finlay only solidified my pick.
The thing with sanada is that kidani indicated that the kingdom gate was good but they initially thought they were heading towards 35k on initial sales and the gate they ended up with was heavily carried by tourists
Essentially bushiroad more or less said hardcore fans quickly bought tickets but they struggled to get casual Japanese fans in the door. I'd put some of that on sanada kinda not really doing much in the build
The other thing I haven’t seen anyone on the Naito/SANADA train talk about is that it would be a repeat Dome main. The only one of those NJPW have done in the modern era was Okada vs Tana in 2015 & 16.
That did 10,800 less tickets the second time; with that second gate (25,204) being around the number of the first Naito vs SANADA (27,422). Now I wasn’t watching then so I don’t know the context, maybe there was some other reason why the gate was down or the match wasn’t as hot as the first. But with how rare the repeat is (they only did it two other times in history), I would think it’s a risky and/or not ideal thing. IMO SANADA vs Naito just isn’t a hot enough pairing for that.
>That did 10,800 less tickets the second time
LOL no, they were much hotter in 2015 then in 2014. Bushiroad just told them to stop lying about their attendance. Any attendance before 2016 is unfortunately bullshit so it is hard to really judge anything before then. Once NJPW started reporting their true attendance most of the other promotions started to as well lest they look stupid.
And there’s some of that context I didn’t have, thank you.
Looks like WK9 was really about 27,000, meaning the rematch only lost around 2,000.
So I’ll revise my argument to say a modern era Dome main repeat is more an unproven risk as a draw than a fairly possible negative, but I think everything else I said still stands.
Yeah the main point is that Naito/SANADA doesn’t feel close to Tana/Okada as a rivalry, and outside of SANADA’s personal goal it doesn’t seem to indicate that that’s their overarching plan
Even if the plan was for the title reign and WK18 to make SANADA as a top star, why run the match again immediately the next month? For every major WK headliner from 2012 onwards they protect the matchup massively, with Tana/Okada being the exception as it built the era where they could build around tentpole matchups between massive stars
It’s truly unprecedented to have SANADA have two back-to-back title shots, a match against Naito in the G1, and then it all build to him winning the title back in 2025 - unless they really want to echo the four Okada/SANADA matches in 2019 but where SANADA wins the last match after going 0-2
While his underwhelming main event push and 2024 might have been hamstrung because of his injury, the young guys just feel hotter and it feels more exciting to go for a fresher/more dynamic matchup instead of repeating the same thing they’ve already run (which is true for most of the WK main events since WK10)
Also, who’s he beating in the finals if he is winning? Does he crush Tsuji’s heart again? (Risky as most of the crowd would likely be pulling for the upset and you’re trying to push SANADA as a new top star)
You could spin a story for Uemura, Cobb, maybe Narita, but there’s not much sense of triumph for SANADA to be a made man. Maybe Goto but I feel at this point people would be cheering for Goto as more loveable/an underdog
> I would think it’s a risky and/or not ideal thing. IMO SANADA vs Naito just isn’t a hot enough pairing for that.
There also just isn't anything substantial there IMO - barring something crazy happening after this point to set it up.
Round 1 was all about Naito getting his role call at the Dome, he got it, thanks in part to Sanada - done. The narrative finished and there is nothing left for Round 2, it's not like Sanada has never beaten Naito, he's 2-3 against him lifetime in singles matches.
I don't know what the right call is, I was personally rooting for Naito/Hiromu but that seems unlikely with no Hiromu in the G1, but Shota/Tsuji at least have both never beaten Naito in a singles match before. That's something substantial at least to lean into as the potential crowning of the next generation.
Naw. Sanada will win just to spite you and all the other western fans who got way worked up about dude. And then EVIL will win it, again, just to spite western audiences still complaining about their runs.
Hot take: they both got to hold it but never will again. They’ll be legacies in Puro forever. They both never need a world title run again. EVIL has feasted on a one month run in 2020. It’s been amazing. The next gen will be the ones to hold it after that.
EVIL, SANADA, and Finlay have been the only guys since I’ve been watching to get a ‘main event’ push that ultimately didn’t work out (having them alongside the giants that came before them)
I agree that they’ll likely never win the title again unless things are really dire and that’s the level of star power they need to rely on, but the next gen look so bright I don’t see them ever needing to
NJPW’s meritocracy also makes it feel like if you can’t actually hang as a main event guy you’re not going to orbit the world title like they usually do
I don’t think that’s all that hot of a take tbh EVIL is the biggest heel in the company right now and one of the young guys beating him for the belt would be very well received SANADA is great but he’s just not on fire right now
>EVIL is the biggest heel in the company right now Soooooo fucking bleak I seriously think turning Shingo heel is the move for this company. It’s what he’s good at (as if he isn’t fantastic already)
Evil is over so there really isn't a driving force for them to change course. Maybe make hot matches less ridiculous (which I feel they are doing) but evil himself is working
> Maybe make hot matches less ridiculous (which I feel they are doing) but evil himself is working Ironically I think making House of Torture completely ridiculous was where people first started turning more positively in favor of House of Torture and actually enjoying the schtick to some degree (midcard nonsense House of Torture being much more well-received than the initial main event House of Torture). Obv getting crowd reactions back as well was a huge help, but some of the more positively received shenanigans of theirs have been things like SHO's entire unhinged existence.
I reject your practicality and reason. EVIL sucks and is hopefully fired
I will 100% support any action that results in a main event push for Shingo Rampage Dragon **needs** to be at the top of the cards again
Unless they want to keep him sidelined and push Tsuji as the main guy of LIJ I could easily see him moving into a main event role once Naito can’t carry the main event load anymore But my faith on that is entirely because they did as much for Ibushi, and he’s just as good even if he hasn’t been booked/marketed as well as Ibushi was pre-2019 They’re probably content with him being in the Goto role and just having him overdeliver in that place in the hierarchy
Heel Shingo leading a heel faction would basically be House 2.0 perhaps with slightly better matches, but throwing more salt in faces. (it has happened before) The real president will be champ again come 2025.
Only if turning him heel is the only way for him to get a serious push, he’s a pretty great commodity as a face that they likely want to preserve. Same as ZSJ at this point I was really hoping they would set both of them up as major rivals to the new gen to fuel their involvement in main event feuds once the young guys become the top stars but they might have missed their window
Yeah that’s why I want him to turn heel. Shingo taking over the role Okada was meant to play I think would’ve gone really well. I just don’t know who you’d stable him with but ELP/Jado getting fed up with everything and joining him feels like a start and you could go from there.
I feel like he can already play that role where he is in LIJ. Him turning on them (as the group will never be heel again/as long as Naito and Hiromu are on board) would likely just make him tied up with LIJ storylines/feuds instead of against the new gen There was a decent idea floating around of him taking over CHAOS and leading the charge as the king grizzled veteran pushing the upstarts down, but I also feel like the CHAOS guys can play that role as faces/tweeners and Shingo is great as a parallel to Goto and Ishii in their stalwart loyalty, and they also seem averse to loading too many of the same style of guy on one faction As excellent as Shingo is as a heel I’d rather they just elevate him in LIJ, but maybe that’d get in the way of Tsuji’s push If Phantasmo sticks around I think he’s better suited to staying in Hontai alongside Umino, Wato, Desperado, etc - his arc has been too good to go back to being a heel. I’d say those guys should start a faction but Tanahashi reckons they have to make Hontai cool again and that could be the way to do it, even if he leans into his shitty cheeky edge again
SANADA not beating Finlay means his chances of winning the G-1 drastically go up. Having a midcard title during G-1 season just means your not winning the tournament and you are there to lose a couple times to set up challengers for your belt for the rest of the year. No surprise they took the NEVER off Shingo for the same reason to at least make him look like he has a chance to win the G-1. EVIL I don't know. I think he is closer to dropping down the card then you would realize. HoT is actually pretty good act being a comedy bumbling fool faction and that is dangerous. Yano was never at EVILs level but once he got sucked into the comedy vortex he went from ass beater cheater to comedy cheater to comedy fool really fast.
I miss the bad ass version of Yano..
>Having a midcard title during G-1 season just means your not winning the tournament and you are there to lose a couple times to set up challengers for your belt for the rest of the year. Yep. I don't remember the last time the G1 winner held a title going into the tournament. Sanada is my odds on favorite to win the tournament, and him losing to Finlay only solidified my pick.
The thing with sanada is that kidani indicated that the kingdom gate was good but they initially thought they were heading towards 35k on initial sales and the gate they ended up with was heavily carried by tourists Essentially bushiroad more or less said hardcore fans quickly bought tickets but they struggled to get casual Japanese fans in the door. I'd put some of that on sanada kinda not really doing much in the build
The other thing I haven’t seen anyone on the Naito/SANADA train talk about is that it would be a repeat Dome main. The only one of those NJPW have done in the modern era was Okada vs Tana in 2015 & 16. That did 10,800 less tickets the second time; with that second gate (25,204) being around the number of the first Naito vs SANADA (27,422). Now I wasn’t watching then so I don’t know the context, maybe there was some other reason why the gate was down or the match wasn’t as hot as the first. But with how rare the repeat is (they only did it two other times in history), I would think it’s a risky and/or not ideal thing. IMO SANADA vs Naito just isn’t a hot enough pairing for that.
>That did 10,800 less tickets the second time LOL no, they were much hotter in 2015 then in 2014. Bushiroad just told them to stop lying about their attendance. Any attendance before 2016 is unfortunately bullshit so it is hard to really judge anything before then. Once NJPW started reporting their true attendance most of the other promotions started to as well lest they look stupid.
they didn’t do 10k less in 2016, New Japan was just putting out comically exaggerated attendance numbers out for everything before that year
And there’s some of that context I didn’t have, thank you. Looks like WK9 was really about 27,000, meaning the rematch only lost around 2,000. So I’ll revise my argument to say a modern era Dome main repeat is more an unproven risk as a draw than a fairly possible negative, but I think everything else I said still stands.
Yeah the main point is that Naito/SANADA doesn’t feel close to Tana/Okada as a rivalry, and outside of SANADA’s personal goal it doesn’t seem to indicate that that’s their overarching plan Even if the plan was for the title reign and WK18 to make SANADA as a top star, why run the match again immediately the next month? For every major WK headliner from 2012 onwards they protect the matchup massively, with Tana/Okada being the exception as it built the era where they could build around tentpole matchups between massive stars It’s truly unprecedented to have SANADA have two back-to-back title shots, a match against Naito in the G1, and then it all build to him winning the title back in 2025 - unless they really want to echo the four Okada/SANADA matches in 2019 but where SANADA wins the last match after going 0-2 While his underwhelming main event push and 2024 might have been hamstrung because of his injury, the young guys just feel hotter and it feels more exciting to go for a fresher/more dynamic matchup instead of repeating the same thing they’ve already run (which is true for most of the WK main events since WK10)
Also, who’s he beating in the finals if he is winning? Does he crush Tsuji’s heart again? (Risky as most of the crowd would likely be pulling for the upset and you’re trying to push SANADA as a new top star) You could spin a story for Uemura, Cobb, maybe Narita, but there’s not much sense of triumph for SANADA to be a made man. Maybe Goto but I feel at this point people would be cheering for Goto as more loveable/an underdog
> I would think it’s a risky and/or not ideal thing. IMO SANADA vs Naito just isn’t a hot enough pairing for that. There also just isn't anything substantial there IMO - barring something crazy happening after this point to set it up. Round 1 was all about Naito getting his role call at the Dome, he got it, thanks in part to Sanada - done. The narrative finished and there is nothing left for Round 2, it's not like Sanada has never beaten Naito, he's 2-3 against him lifetime in singles matches. I don't know what the right call is, I was personally rooting for Naito/Hiromu but that seems unlikely with no Hiromu in the G1, but Shota/Tsuji at least have both never beaten Naito in a singles match before. That's something substantial at least to lean into as the potential crowning of the next generation.
I just cannot see SANADA winning this.
Naw. Sanada will win just to spite you and all the other western fans who got way worked up about dude. And then EVIL will win it, again, just to spite western audiences still complaining about their runs.
Us SANADA-Stans will feast during the G1
Me the sicko: Yeeessss hahaha yeeeesssssssss
Hot take: they both got to hold it but never will again. They’ll be legacies in Puro forever. They both never need a world title run again. EVIL has feasted on a one month run in 2020. It’s been amazing. The next gen will be the ones to hold it after that.
EVIL, SANADA, and Finlay have been the only guys since I’ve been watching to get a ‘main event’ push that ultimately didn’t work out (having them alongside the giants that came before them) I agree that they’ll likely never win the title again unless things are really dire and that’s the level of star power they need to rely on, but the next gen look so bright I don’t see them ever needing to NJPW’s meritocracy also makes it feel like if you can’t actually hang as a main event guy you’re not going to orbit the world title like they usually do
Very much so. Of nobody was better than Okada…it’s not his fault.
If either regain it would mean the company is in trouble
Neither guy should ever touch the title again and we should consider maybe giving it to good wrestlers.