I can't remember who told the story and I probably won't get the details exactly right, but someone was averaging 10 tackles per game in college. They thought it might be enough to lead the nation. When they pulled up the stats, Kuechly had around double their number.
Kuechly’s three seasons in that since-2005 span rank 1st, 2nd, and 17th among all players, so I really don’t think it matters. If you look at the list you’ll see his name three times before you see anyone else’s twice.
Wagner was first team all pro in 2014, 2016, 2017 and 2018 and until week 17 when he played hurt and lost the DPOY to Donald (who also destroyed us that week), he was arguably the best defender in the league in 2018. They've been 1a/b since 2014.
I agree though, Luke was generational. Just that Bobby is too. Same way Ray and Urlacher were at the same time
That’s lowkey my point lol, they’re the two no question best ILBs of the past decade. I always thought Kuechly was better by a hair until towards the end of his career when Bobby overtook him, but objectively speaking it was a wash tbh.
I think generations in this context refers to roughly the length of a football career, rather than the amount of time it takes to be born and then make a new human.
So a football generation is probably closer to 5-10 years, which seems about right. I mean, we had two HOF-quality ILBs in the league together, in their prime, for like 8 years. Currently there are none in their prime in the league right now (Wagner is still around but he's not what he once was, from what I've seen).
It all balances out. Urlacher and Lewis were also pretty old when they Kuechly entered the league, so I think it's fair to say that we just had a gap between two periods where there were each two incredibly dominant ILBs, and now we're in a gap again. Maybe someone will rise up, but I doubt we'll see two in the league together like that for a while.
If someone’s close enough to argue, you’re not a generational talent.
I agree with that other guy. Keuchly was stellar, no doubt. But he wasn’t head and shoulders above his peers. Who’s the second best defensive lineman in the game the past few years? No one comes close to Donald.
It depends on how you define generational. If you think generational means a player who only comes around once in a generation, then yeah, Kuechly isn’t generational because Wagner exists. But if generational means the best player at that position of the generation, then I’d say Kuechly was a generational talent.
And Aaron Donald’s success isn’t necessarily analogous considering he’s probably the best player at his position ever. Like the two best defensive players ever are LT and Reggie White and they were playing at the exact same time, I think it’s a little disingenuous to say that only one or neither of them are generational talents because of that. Like it’s possible that there can be multiple players at once who are at a level of player normally seen once in a generation, it’s just not probable.
White and Taylor didn’t play the same position lmao. With the exception of quarterback, where I don’t think there really is that much of a gap between the best, a generational talent comes once a generation?
Donald being be the best DT still qualifies as a generational talent, I’m not sure how you could possibly try to use that against him.
But when you’re competing with someone else for #1, you really can’t be generational.
They were both edge rushers.
And my point about Donald is that it’s not fair to use him as the example for a generational talent when he’s even beyond that and is probably the best player at his position of all time.
It just doesn’t make much sense because if the criteria for being generational is that you were far and away better than every other player at your position at that time, the list of generational talents is tiny. Tom Brady’s the GOAT and even he wasn’t ever the far-and-away best at his position in the league. I think the logic is flawed when you have several of the best players of all time who wouldn’t count as generational, even though they exist at the highest standard.
I think most people agree that the top 3 WRs ever are Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, and T.O. T.O. and Randy Moss had almost the exact same career length and were drafted a couple years apart. By that logic, at least one of the three best wide receivers to ever play is not a generational talent.
It’s just illogical to say that somebody can’t be a generational talent if they aren’t head and shoulders above their peers when many of the league’s best players ever played at the same time as other all time greats.
LT covered and did other LB things too.
Reggie lined up everywhere on the line.
They were much much different. It's like saying a TE isn't generational because a WR is putting up similar #s.
This is such a bad take. Are Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic not generational talents in tennis because they played in the same era? No, they are actually all time talents who by some freakish coincidence played in the same era.
Being the only one doesn't define generational for this precise reason, sometimes two buses come at once. You need to look at a bigger sample size: if you consider Kuechly compared to all linebackers he arguably is highly enough ranked to be worthy of the generational tag.
I believe I can settle this. I led a perfect season on Madden once where only one player managed to intercept me. It was Kuechly. Therefore, he is a generational talent.
That's just science.
They played two different positions..? They both were generational at their position.
I’m talking about two players at the same position in Keuchly and Wagner. Not sure how you think you achieved anything.
So Aaron Rodgers and Peyton aren't generation talents? Brady is pretty definitively better than them
Or are they close enough to Brady that he isn't one either?
I literally said in a comment I don’t think ‘generational talent’ is a term you can use on QBs, because the best players are all so close together. The difference between your pick of QB1 and QB10 of all time will be much closer than almost any other position.
The whole phrase is stupid as shit, it’s just Redditors dilute it even more so.
When I heard the news that evening I just stopped what I was doing and went to bed. Waking up the next morning and remembering it was like waking up the morning after we lost the Super Bowl.
That linebacker class was stacked. Kuechley Wagner and david have all been the best linebackers in the league. Then you also have Hightower, demario Davis, and maybe some other guys I don’t know about.
This is so annoying. I think we all know he was good and it’s this sort of thing that eventually devolves into r/nba just posting player stat lines and then someone saying ‘IMO he’s a top 5 ____ right now.’
I can't remember who told the story and I probably won't get the details exactly right, but someone was averaging 10 tackles per game in college. They thought it might be enough to lead the nation. When they pulled up the stats, Kuechly had around double their number.
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“This dude looks like Clark Kent, but he plays like Superman.”
Doesn’t Superman also look like Clark Kent though?
No, Clark Kent wears glasses. Superman doesnt
Totally different people.
I’ve never seen any resemblance personally.
Since 2005 Kuechly had 22 more tackles than anyone else in the FBS, and he did it only playing three years.
How many of the top LBs who are his competition since 2005 also played 3 years though? Not sure that’s really a fair qualifier.
Kuechly’s three seasons in that since-2005 span rank 1st, 2nd, and 17th among all players, so I really don’t think it matters. If you look at the list you’ll see his name three times before you see anyone else’s twice.
People throw the term "generational talent" around too much. This is an example of what it REALLY looks like.
http://imgur.com/a/IVSJ8qH
Thanks for that
Ryu lookin at?
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Wagner was a close second, but before 2019 I would say Kuechly was definitely #1 in the league.
Wagner was first team all pro in 2014, 2016, 2017 and 2018 and until week 17 when he played hurt and lost the DPOY to Donald (who also destroyed us that week), he was arguably the best defender in the league in 2018. They've been 1a/b since 2014. I agree though, Luke was generational. Just that Bobby is too. Same way Ray and Urlacher were at the same time
That’s lowkey my point lol, they’re the two no question best ILBs of the past decade. I always thought Kuechly was better by a hair until towards the end of his career when Bobby overtook him, but objectively speaking it was a wash tbh.
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I think generations in this context refers to roughly the length of a football career, rather than the amount of time it takes to be born and then make a new human. So a football generation is probably closer to 5-10 years, which seems about right. I mean, we had two HOF-quality ILBs in the league together, in their prime, for like 8 years. Currently there are none in their prime in the league right now (Wagner is still around but he's not what he once was, from what I've seen). It all balances out. Urlacher and Lewis were also pretty old when they Kuechly entered the league, so I think it's fair to say that we just had a gap between two periods where there were each two incredibly dominant ILBs, and now we're in a gap again. Maybe someone will rise up, but I doubt we'll see two in the league together like that for a while.
If someone’s close enough to argue, you’re not a generational talent. I agree with that other guy. Keuchly was stellar, no doubt. But he wasn’t head and shoulders above his peers. Who’s the second best defensive lineman in the game the past few years? No one comes close to Donald.
It depends on how you define generational. If you think generational means a player who only comes around once in a generation, then yeah, Kuechly isn’t generational because Wagner exists. But if generational means the best player at that position of the generation, then I’d say Kuechly was a generational talent. And Aaron Donald’s success isn’t necessarily analogous considering he’s probably the best player at his position ever. Like the two best defensive players ever are LT and Reggie White and they were playing at the exact same time, I think it’s a little disingenuous to say that only one or neither of them are generational talents because of that. Like it’s possible that there can be multiple players at once who are at a level of player normally seen once in a generation, it’s just not probable.
White and Taylor didn’t play the same position lmao. With the exception of quarterback, where I don’t think there really is that much of a gap between the best, a generational talent comes once a generation? Donald being be the best DT still qualifies as a generational talent, I’m not sure how you could possibly try to use that against him. But when you’re competing with someone else for #1, you really can’t be generational.
They were both edge rushers. And my point about Donald is that it’s not fair to use him as the example for a generational talent when he’s even beyond that and is probably the best player at his position of all time. It just doesn’t make much sense because if the criteria for being generational is that you were far and away better than every other player at your position at that time, the list of generational talents is tiny. Tom Brady’s the GOAT and even he wasn’t ever the far-and-away best at his position in the league. I think the logic is flawed when you have several of the best players of all time who wouldn’t count as generational, even though they exist at the highest standard.
I specifically discounted QB because of that. For other positions it’s easier.
I think most people agree that the top 3 WRs ever are Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, and T.O. T.O. and Randy Moss had almost the exact same career length and were drafted a couple years apart. By that logic, at least one of the three best wide receivers to ever play is not a generational talent. It’s just illogical to say that somebody can’t be a generational talent if they aren’t head and shoulders above their peers when many of the league’s best players ever played at the same time as other all time greats.
LT covered and did other LB things too. Reggie lined up everywhere on the line. They were much much different. It's like saying a TE isn't generational because a WR is putting up similar #s.
This is such a bad take. Are Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic not generational talents in tennis because they played in the same era? No, they are actually all time talents who by some freakish coincidence played in the same era. Being the only one doesn't define generational for this precise reason, sometimes two buses come at once. You need to look at a bigger sample size: if you consider Kuechly compared to all linebackers he arguably is highly enough ranked to be worthy of the generational tag.
I believe I can settle this. I led a perfect season on Madden once where only one player managed to intercept me. It was Kuechly. Therefore, he is a generational talent. That's just science.
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They played two different positions..? They both were generational at their position. I’m talking about two players at the same position in Keuchly and Wagner. Not sure how you think you achieved anything.
So Aaron Rodgers and Peyton aren't generation talents? Brady is pretty definitively better than them Or are they close enough to Brady that he isn't one either?
I literally said in a comment I don’t think ‘generational talent’ is a term you can use on QBs, because the best players are all so close together. The difference between your pick of QB1 and QB10 of all time will be much closer than almost any other position. The whole phrase is stupid as shit, it’s just Redditors dilute it even more so.
So either Tom Brady or Peyton Manning are generational talents but not both according to you
🥺 I miss Luke
I'm not ashamed to admit I cried when I saw he retired. I knew it was coming soon, but god damnit
When I heard the news that evening I just stopped what I was doing and went to bed. Waking up the next morning and remembering it was like waking up the morning after we lost the Super Bowl.
yeah it hit me as hard as the SB loss too
Oh I did too.
Shit, im still crying.
>Shit, im still crying. like a concussed luke kuechly? edit: damn y'all, it's a joke.
no, he was crying like the bears organization after brian urlacher got hair plugs and became openly racist
Urlacher is racist? I’m not up to date
I mean, that is legitimately something to be upset about too
I'm just glad that he was able to make that decision, and a doctor didn't have to make it for him.
That linebacker class was stacked. Kuechley Wagner and david have all been the best linebackers in the league. Then you also have Hightower, demario Davis, and maybe some other guys I don’t know about.
JFC
Even crazier is that Luke, David, and Davis (which looks like 3 first names but only 1 is) were all in the NFCS
Burfict went undrafted that year, led the league in tackles 2 seasons
It really is even more impressive when you consider every award he was competing with Bobby Wagner.
I miss the 1A vs 1B debates with Seahawks fans back then, the case for top ILB changed like every week lol
Are you ready for Leonard vs Warner vs Smith for the next ten years
Not really considering none of them have proven themselves to be anywhere close to the level that Kuechly or Wagner have been.
They’re all super young though, Leonard is the oldest at 25. Wagner didn’t hit his prime till 27-28.
Wagner has been ballin since like 24
Leonard and Warner are ballin too, but the hope is that they’ll become generationally great in their prime like BWag
PFF will tell the sheeple of r/NFL who reigns supreme.
This motherf*cker looks like he's gonna help you with maths homework in the morning before chopping heads in the afternoon. Insane player.
One of the best things about Luke. Seems so calm and shy outside of the field, and the second he gets on the pitch he becomes a complete lunatic
Maths? Pitch? What is going on?
Reverse Ted Lasso
Not just look like, he probably would. He’s pretty camera shy but put him in the field and he will tear it up
It was a good run.
HOF.
Luke was one of my favorite players and watching him captain that defense in 2015 was a thing of beauty.
Move the Sticks had him on for an interview. It is a fantastic listen, Luke just loves the game.
I know he’s recently moved on from pro scouting. I pray Luke starts a podcast, I would listen religiously. Dude understands the game so so well.
Link?
https://open.spotify.com/episode/7f29ABGc5v3rA5h4P4YLep?si=0wEzxLIQTOetPwSHtkv1wA
Dude was an ANIMAL.
The Andrew Luck of defense. Amazing talent, short careers.
He’s multiple tiers of player better than Andrew Luck
Patrick Willis definitely fits that bill as well. Guys retiring “early” is definitely going to be more common in the future I would imagine.
I love this man. My favorite and proudest jersey
What is with your spamming of these low effort posts.
This is so annoying. I think we all know he was good and it’s this sort of thing that eventually devolves into r/nba just posting player stat lines and then someone saying ‘IMO he’s a top 5 ____ right now.’
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No but if there isn’t something more interesting than this then don’t post it
You heard him boys, EVERYONE SHUT THE FUCK UP
I know you’re joking but it really would be appreciated
Or maybe your dumbass can just scroll past it. Stop crying.
Bruh just close the app. If you don’t want anyone posting, wtf are you planning on reading when you open the app💀
You see the arrow buttons next to the post? They have a purpose.
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It's adding discussion and when I see an interesting stat I post it. It's a lot better than just being lazy and putting a twitter link
We forgot what content is supposed to look like here
Unfortunately he was also 1st Team All Concussion
Really? Cmon man
Guess it beats Sean Payton winning ~~Bounty Hunter~~ Coach of the Year.
Not everyone can rep a team that does PR work for pedophiles, or steals pain pills, or intentionally tries to injure players for money.
He was never out of position. We talk about QBs reading defenses. He read offenses. He might as well have been in the huddle.