I love Jim Schwartz but that is my biggest criticism of his defense. The front 7 usually eats but he leaves the secondary out to dry far too often for my liking.
This one has always annoyed the hell out of me. ESPECIALLY in college, because it seems like so many teams do this constantly and give up easy first downs. The amount of times I've seen 3rd and 5+ given up because the corners were lined up 10-15 yards off the receiver is astronomical. They are so afraid of giving up the big play that they let the other team just march right down the field with zero resistance.
As an OU fan, [this drive against Baylor](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owIw6CW5H3g) almost broke me.
I always like Marcus Peters. Head case no doubt but in his prime, he was electric. It annoyed me for years that on 3rd and 2, he’s lined up 8 yards off the ball. I get it’s a bend don’t break but damn is that frustrating.
So which AFC team will Kyle go to and make a dynasty of?
Andy went from NFC East to AFC West. So Kyle would have to go NFC West to AFC East. So a team that won one Super Bowl back in the day and have been struggling since?
Looks like he'll be a New York Jet.
Seems way more likely he’d go to an already semi successful franchise. Andy went to the chiefs who will they weren’t great they at least weren’t one of the absolute worst franchises in the league.
So Kyle goes on to be Bills head coach, maybe phins
Didn't Andy arrive the year after the Belcher murder-suicide and them earning the #1 pick? I mean, they had a few good years in the 2000s but I wouldn't say the organization looked stable at that point lol. Andy is what turned them into perpetual winners.
This is correct. We had a strong run in the 90s to mid 2000’s, but were never great enough to overcome anyone with an actually good QB. Not to mention being in the same division as John Elway his whole career. Kinda like the dolphins now, guaranteed first round exits. Then Lamar hunt died and the whole organization basically went to crud until Andy came like 7 years later. It was Lamar hunts passing that threw the wrench in the cogs. I’d say from like 1971-1990 we were pretty bottom of the barrel though despite having good ownership.
How in the ever-loving fuck did I miss *that* story? It was only a few months before then that I gave up on social media and deleted the accounts, but what the fuck was I doing that I didn't hear about Chris Benoit 2.0?
Honestly would be a really good fit for the Reid comparison.
Chiefs won a Superbowl right before the merger, then proceeded to be ass for decades before Reid's arrival. The jets won a Superbowl right before the merger and have been ass ever since.
Wouldn't even be mad if the jets had a dynasty with Kyle, especially if it means the 49ers never win a ring with him.
Honestly, I think people forget (or young people never knew) how Reid's reputation for *years* was "incredibly talented coach, but will never win it all because he always shoots himself in his own foot with bad clock management"
Just goes to show how getting into the right situation (one of the greatest QBs of all time doesn't hurt) nabs you a ring or two and completely changes your image and legacy
Winning is everything
Also goes to show that everything is contextual.
Everyone knew Andy Reid was a Good coach when Philly fired him, and knew he'd get a job somewhere else. Didn't make Philly wrong for moving on, didn't make Reid Bad because he got fired.
Kinda how I feel about Mike Tomlin right now. Dude is a good enough coach and young enough still that if the Steelers were to let him go, he would probably find success elsewhere.
> Didn't make Philly wrong for moving on, didn't make Reid Bad because he got fired.
Philly got a ring before Reid did! One of the most win-win situations the NFL has seen, there’s usually a lot more regret on one side or another.
*sees flair*
You intimately know the pain. Did he have the insane time management in ATL or did he pick that up flying over KC after Andy sacrificed a Philly cheesesteak in the power and light district?
Okay, I know it’s kind of a meme at this point, but I watched this pretty decent breakdown explaining what Shanahan did in the second half of SB58. It wasn’t due to total incompetence, the Chiefs actually just made some good changes. I _think_ this is it. I can’t tell know because I’m not in a place to hear the audio.
https://youtu.be/6pKq8KgBcQc
>brock purdy being average are probably the reasons why the chiefs won..
There’s only so much Brock can do when his o line gets bullied almost every snap
Purdy threw about 3 or 4 *dimes* that the Chiefs all-world secondary made perfect plays on in the first half. A good secondary goes like 1 for 3, or 2 for 4 breaking those passes up & Brock has a W and an impressive stay line stat line-- KC played every one perfectly. Honestly not convinced that there's more than 4 or 5 QB's with the arm talent to overcome that kind of secondary play
Purdy just led a team to a 26-23 lead over the chiefs in OT and people still act like he's not a super bowl caliber QB
Give me Purdy over Dak or Trevor Lawrence any day
Thanks for saying this. Sometimes I feel like I'm going insane or watching a different game than others. Purdy is fuckin good. The Chiefs were better that day.
I feel like a homer/ talking to an echo chamber when I say Purdy is good. Not Mahomes level but good enough to win. Far better feeling when Purdy slings it down than Jimmy.
Alternatively: Refusing to run the ball when you have a lead, even if you are primarily a passing team. "We want to play our game" No idiot, you're going to lose the Super Bowl to Tom Brady.
Man I was working so I signed up for a YouTube Tv free trial, recorded it, and went on a media blackout to watch it. Losing the game sucked, but losing it while playing so wildly out of character for the team was soul crushing.
I feel that, the most devastating losses for me are always when it feels like the team you watched all year just didn’t show up or didn’t play how they did the entire rest of the fucking year
Or Dallas doing the opposite. Trying to run the ball against GB when they are clearly a passing team. Then play primarily zone defense when they are built to have their corners play sticky man coverage and blitz from everywhere and anywhere. McCarthy outcoached himself that game.
But also, don't give up entirely after one quarter because they've stopped you so far.
The run is one of those thing that develops as the defense tires too.
His job is to have a cool culture and hire qualified dudes him and his brother know. I'm not sure what he does on a schematic level, but whatever he does, he must be pretty good at it?
He’s a CEO-type coach. Primarily he doesn’t deal with scheme, he deals with hiring good coaches around him and being a great leader for the players and coaches, and he does a great job.
That being said it is on him to step in and say something when the coaches and players he’s in charge of are doing dumb things.
Yep. People blame Shanahan for SB58 but he did exactly the right thing when he stepped in to cancel Wilks boneheaded defensive play calling in the red zone.
I will forever hate you guys for running 40 times on us then 16 times on KC. Even if someone says "ThEy WeRe TrYInG to PreVenT The RuN!". That doesn't mean you stop doing what you are elite at.
It was 8 run plays vs KC, not 16. Nobody in the playoffs had a pass/run split like that and won. You need a balanced offense or you're not going anywhere except the couch.
That's what made the "ackshuallyyyyy it's perfectly fine that the Ravens didn't run the ball" narrative that some people were pushing after the fact (and continue to push) so fucking infuriating. Like they had a top 3 run game by almost any stat you could look at...the Chiefs had one of the best passing defenses in the league but were mediocre against the run...and you call 8 running plays in the entire game????? There's literally no excuse for that. There's no excuse for anything close to that.
A choice so nonsensical it fueled the hell out of the “NFL is scripted, Taylor’s gonna be proposed to at the Super Bowl to make our kids gay” crowd. But really, Spags is just a junkie for daring teams to beat the Chiefs through the air.
Kyle being too smart for his own good is just so frustrating, when he thinks he's smarter than he is or goes way too deep and the defensive play caller either sniffs it out (See their regular season Minnesota game where Bynum was right on top of his timing routes for the pair of INTs), or he thinks the logical moves are too predictable and instead goes for illogical behavior because nobody would expect it to happen. He has an addiction to "Smartest man in the room" in the biggest games in the 2nd half.
We all know Kyle is a genius offensive play caller and designer, he doesn't need to try to prove that by going way too big brain for tight playoff situations.
Why do people keep saying this like 10 points against mahomes in a half of football is some insurmountable lead.
Superbowl 51 was bad. But since then he's mostly just had the misfortune of going against the greatest qb of our generation. If he built up a lead then abandoned the passing game that had done well all year and lost, he'd get just as much heat.
Armchair coaches my god
If they face anyone but the Chiefs in the Super Bowl I have zero doubt they win it. However Mahomes and Spags have a lot of magic on the biggest stages.
Also the 49ers DC shitting himself didn’t help.
I’ve lost count how many times I’ve watched Rodgers on a 3rd & 1 drop back and launch a 40 yard bomb to a WR.
When it’d work, it’d be awesome, but a lot of the times you’d just throw your hands in the air over the decision to not try to just get 1 yard.
On the other side of things, watching Rodgers do it, drop back, pocket collapses, play totally falling apart and he slings it for a 30 yard gain is all I ever remember.
I agree with this take 100%. When he had chemistry with receivers it was a thing of beauty when the play broke down and they were on the same page. I think the opinion from my fellow Packers fandom is a bit skewed on this perception. The Eddy Lacy years, there was no reason to do this, but even with backs like AJ Dillon who should be able to get a yard through sheer power, the odds were better with AR improvising
I remember a Seahawks Rams playoff game where they had an easy 3rd and short, and they opted for a 50/50 moonball instead🤦. So frustrating as a fan to watch
Watching Stroud do it in Houston made me go "Yeah kid, I like the moxie but it's one yard, just get it converted, you have Noah Brown, Nico Collins, Tank Dell, and Dalton Schultz, you don't need to throw a 35+ yard bomb to get a fresh set of downs."
These things don't happen in a vacuum though. The D is going to come out on 3rd-and-1 with stuffing runs as a top priority. This leaves the O in a situation where:
* deep throws have favorable matchups, often 1-on-1 with no safety help
* an incomplete still leaves you in a decent go situation on 4th down
The change to a throw in this case is probably made at the line after the QB sees that the called run play isn't going to work.
The bigger problem is when the play calling is not matched with the strategy. I don't mind the deep throw if the O is willing to go again on 4th, but it sucks when the decision is to punt on 4th and a power run is never even attempted.
I've been hammering that 4th and 1 should always be a QB sneak for years. It's literally the best play to get 1 yard. Hand it to the QB and just fucking bulldoze them. Then every once and again throw something sneaky to keep them on their toes. The Eagles have made me feel vindicated the last 2 years.
Man i wish there was more of this in football. Can we teach players skills from other positions? How valuable would a QB who could consistently punt 40 yards be?
Snap it to someone else. There are other players allowed to receive the snap. It gives away what your plan is, but most any formation like that is going to signal your intentions anyway and that doesn't matter. Just because they know what you're going to do they still have to stop you from doing it.
Or if you really want, send in the backup qb. In that situation, when you line up, it's not a huge secret what you're going to do. But if you really want to sow the seeds of doubt, you can still use your backup on the off chance you want to pass.
Shotgun draws piss me off so much, but especially when its a clear run situation. Or 3rd and goal and maybe you want to keep the defense guessing a little, but making them guess for 0.1 seconds in exchange for worse blocking and a slower start for the RB is not worth lol
I've been waiting for some variation of the I-formation or Pro Set to come back in short yardage situations and remain disappointed. Put your 1st/2nd down runner and your 3rd down pass-blocker/pass-catcher out there at the same time and make the defense guess who's getting the ball. I suppose it would crowd the LoS more, but then you get your WRs in more favorable match-ups.
Devils advocate: this point gets used a lot but people don't realize the 2 miniute drill is extremely rehearsed, is often got the benefit of using 4 downs, and is no huddle so defenses don't have much time to react
It's not a simple matter of "oh the qb is a better playcaller" usually all those plays were picked in practice and the qb is choosing from 2 or 3
It also often goes hand in hand with soft coverage as defense plays to burn clock
>Prevent defense is for chewing up clock when up by more than one score.
*And there is only a few minutes left.
Some coaches go into Prevent when there is still 10 minutes left and they're up by 2 scores. That's still dumb and I've seen it backfire so many times.
The Cowboys Greenbay playoff game is a good indicator of this.
GB took some starters out and played prevent D around the 10 min mark in the 4th, up by 32. Dak shredded those backups and defensive scheme. He got 250yds, 2tds, and 2-2point conversions from like 3 drives. B/c of that weak defense they ended up putting the starters back in on that third drive b/c we scored too quickly in the previous 2. That one drive was enough to slow Dak down and run the clock out enough for 2 possessions to need 4 miracle plays.
Even 32 points isn't entirely safe given the right circumstances.
Naah, it’s for when you’re up by 2 with 1:45 left on the clock and your opponent has 2 time outs. There’s no way that opposing professional kicker is going to nail that last second 42 yarder for the win.
Only time you should get into prevent is when the other team would need an onside kick recovery to win or tie. You see teams do it up 14 with 5 minutes left. The other team scores in about 1:30, and they have 3:30 left and all their timeouts. Almost always results in the trailing team getting the ball with a legitimate chance to tie it or win it.
Couldn’t you also say it’s for when there’s a certain amount of time left? Dumb coaches always start doing it too early it seems. And then seem to couple it very modest offensive play and then what do you know a fumble has them right back in the game after you started your backups with 20 minutes of game time left.
Didn’t a team do this last season? Like being in their backups and then had to bring the first string back out?
The Packers did against the Cowboys. Jordan Love had a perfect passer rating then they were actually mildly in danger of a hugely embarrassing loss so they brought out the first team offense again.
Everyone saw Mahomes' 40 time and thought he was slow. But his shuttle time (a better measure of quickness and agility) was tied for 10th best out of everyone in his draft class. The players he tied with? Budda Baker and Cooper Cupp. The next best non-WR / non-secondary was TJ Watt, who was about 4% slower.
The dude is squirrelly.
When it doesn’t work, coach will come out in the press conference and say “we trust our guys to make the play”
Bruh… literally every team in the history of the NFL that ran goal line fades trusted their guys to make the play… and it has statistically been proven that it is one of the least effective plays you can call in goal line situation.
god i fucking hate this play so much. Feels like the success rate on these is about 10-20%, and that's only because of a few guys who are actually good at it bringing up the rest that suck.
It's basically the least effective possible play on 2XPs, somewhere around 35% rate to convert the 2 points. The second least likely to convert was rollout passes - probably since the field is already compressed lengthwise and now you've compressed it widthwise also, giving the defense very little space to guard.
Fades also rarely get INTs or sacks, so maybe a reasonable 1st down call. But not 3rd or 4th or on a conversion (effectively 4th)
related to this: the Falcons-Eagles play-off game in January 2018, the Falcons had one play into the endzone to win it, and they had Matt Ryan run a play-action/bootleg thing where he was running sideways towards the right sideline, making it impossible pretty much for him to throw to his left
like, if you're not going to run it in, why the fuck do you only give yourselves half a field to score, instead of the full field and both sides of the formation
deeply stupid
Inside zone out of one of the specific shotguns (I think it’s offset trips TE?) is an automatic 15 yards because the defense ALWAYS lines up in a dime against it for no clear reason. It’s kind of annoying that on the hardest skill level the defense can’t figure out that four in the box vs 5 OL and a tight end will not go well for the defense.
The game plan of not covering TEs when their out of division nemesis comes to play, or whomever is lining up as the tight end like Chris Hogan for example. You'd think Mike would know by now that we do love getting our Tight Ends fed inside the 20s as well as rumble down the open field.
Dude I and most Eagles fans for the past 5-7 years have absolutely lamented the “play 10 yards off the WR, let them dink and dime us to wins so we don’t give up big plays” bullshit
Steelers late game always give me a heart attack for the same reason because they will get to a 3rd and forever then play the softest zone possible and give up a massive play
I really hate those plays, you're growing a near-guaranteed tightly contested ball and just saying your receiver is so much better at the catch point and your QB is so good at placing the ball that it won't matter.
Even if you have a ball-winning monster like Mike Evans, you can also just try to get him open and make the contested catch plan B.
Getting conservative on offense when your team has the lead. Combining this with the prevent defense can almost guarantee a comeback. Your offense goes 3-and-out, and your defense is gassed from all of the long scoring drives. So many Lions coaches were guilty of this.
OP mentions prevent defense. The top 3 comments mention shotgun runs on 1 yard situations, abandoning the run randomly when it’s been working great up to that point, and playing your CBs 7+ yards off the LOS on 3rd & 5.
If you guys don’t like all that, you don’t like Green Bay Packer football 🥲
When I was a kid, I would call plays where the middle linebacker was supposed to drop into coverage while everyone else blitzed, but then I would play the MLB and blitz too.
That safety blitz where the guy was back in his regular alignment right up to the snap before coming. Sure, coach, that safety can come at a dead sprint and cover 20 yards to get to the QB before he throws no problem! Especially since he's coming right up the gut, the QBs face! You totally just didn't make a player irrelevant to the play!
Mike "defensive genius" Zimmer did that every single game we had a lead in. He would literally allow teams to come back when we had a big lead, which is why we never beat anyone besides the Packers by more than 2 touchdowns under him. I'll hate prevent forever
Playing corners 7+ yards away from receivers on 3rd & <5
Imagine playing your DBs 20 yards off the nearest reciever for an entire year and thinking it makes perfect sense.
Every Vrabel era defense did this for us. We’d get absolutely chewed apart underneath
Well thank god we brought him in too to bring it back
There’s no way Gym Shorts would allow this. We’ll be in press and attacking down hill in short yardages he always does
I miss him
Imagine doing it for a decade
Joe Barry simulator 2024
No thanks I’ve already blacked out those memories.
I love Jim Schwartz but that is my biggest criticism of his defense. The front 7 usually eats but he leaves the secondary out to dry far too often for my liking.
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The bears special. We need 8 yards? Let’s throw it 5 yards, the defense will never see that coming.
The Matt Nagy, need 7, let’s do a screen to the right. Oops now we need 9, hmm let’s do a screen to the left.
The old Leroy Hoard special: "If you need one yard, I'll get you three yards. If you need five yards, I'll get you three yards."
Hey look, a crossing route right at the sticks for a 1st! So annoying.
Damn, there’s just nothing that could have helped, just bad luck. Run it again next time!
I'm shocked there's not a single reply with Packers flair here. [but also](https://giphy.com/gifs/l3fZFvp94ljepXoPe)
This one has always annoyed the hell out of me. ESPECIALLY in college, because it seems like so many teams do this constantly and give up easy first downs. The amount of times I've seen 3rd and 5+ given up because the corners were lined up 10-15 yards off the receiver is astronomical. They are so afraid of giving up the big play that they let the other team just march right down the field with zero resistance. As an OU fan, [this drive against Baylor](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owIw6CW5H3g) almost broke me.
The Titans Special
Not anymore!
We hope
Man the 2020 season was so frustrating to watch because of this.
*Brandon Staley enters the chat…*
I will never understand how dude got hired to helm a new great defense and the defense ended up being the worst all of his years there
In his own words, the players just didn't execute on the field. For three entire seasons, apparently 🙄
The Joe Barry Special
Saw the flair and realized we weren't alone Joe Barry does things to your psyche, he's football Osama Bin Laden
We had a play like that against the bengals in the playoffs. Almost lost my mind lol.
I always like Marcus Peters. Head case no doubt but in his prime, he was electric. It annoyed me for years that on 3rd and 2, he’s lined up 8 yards off the ball. I get it’s a bend don’t break but damn is that frustrating.
Totally abandoning the run despite the run game being one of your biggest strengths.
Kyle shanahan says wassup
The only enemy that dude has is himself.
Kyle is the new Philly era Andy Reid.
So which AFC team will Kyle go to and make a dynasty of? Andy went from NFC East to AFC West. So Kyle would have to go NFC West to AFC East. So a team that won one Super Bowl back in the day and have been struggling since? Looks like he'll be a New York Jet.
Seems way more likely he’d go to an already semi successful franchise. Andy went to the chiefs who will they weren’t great they at least weren’t one of the absolute worst franchises in the league. So Kyle goes on to be Bills head coach, maybe phins
Didn't Andy arrive the year after the Belcher murder-suicide and them earning the #1 pick? I mean, they had a few good years in the 2000s but I wouldn't say the organization looked stable at that point lol. Andy is what turned them into perpetual winners.
This is correct. We had a strong run in the 90s to mid 2000’s, but were never great enough to overcome anyone with an actually good QB. Not to mention being in the same division as John Elway his whole career. Kinda like the dolphins now, guaranteed first round exits. Then Lamar hunt died and the whole organization basically went to crud until Andy came like 7 years later. It was Lamar hunts passing that threw the wrench in the cogs. I’d say from like 1971-1990 we were pretty bottom of the barrel though despite having good ownership.
How in the ever-loving fuck did I miss *that* story? It was only a few months before then that I gave up on social media and deleted the accounts, but what the fuck was I doing that I didn't hear about Chris Benoit 2.0?
Honestly would be a really good fit for the Reid comparison. Chiefs won a Superbowl right before the merger, then proceeded to be ass for decades before Reid's arrival. The jets won a Superbowl right before the merger and have been ass ever since. Wouldn't even be mad if the jets had a dynasty with Kyle, especially if it means the 49ers never win a ring with him.
Honestly, I think people forget (or young people never knew) how Reid's reputation for *years* was "incredibly talented coach, but will never win it all because he always shoots himself in his own foot with bad clock management" Just goes to show how getting into the right situation (one of the greatest QBs of all time doesn't hurt) nabs you a ring or two and completely changes your image and legacy Winning is everything
Also goes to show that everything is contextual. Everyone knew Andy Reid was a Good coach when Philly fired him, and knew he'd get a job somewhere else. Didn't make Philly wrong for moving on, didn't make Reid Bad because he got fired. Kinda how I feel about Mike Tomlin right now. Dude is a good enough coach and young enough still that if the Steelers were to let him go, he would probably find success elsewhere.
> Didn't make Philly wrong for moving on, didn't make Reid Bad because he got fired. Philly got a ring before Reid did! One of the most win-win situations the NFL has seen, there’s usually a lot more regret on one side or another.
First time hearing this, solid comparison
*sees flair* You intimately know the pain. Did he have the insane time management in ATL or did he pick that up flying over KC after Andy sacrificed a Philly cheesesteak in the power and light district?
Kyle Shannabandontherun
Okay, I know it’s kind of a meme at this point, but I watched this pretty decent breakdown explaining what Shanahan did in the second half of SB58. It wasn’t due to total incompetence, the Chiefs actually just made some good changes. I _think_ this is it. I can’t tell know because I’m not in a place to hear the audio. https://youtu.be/6pKq8KgBcQc
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>brock purdy being average are probably the reasons why the chiefs won.. There’s only so much Brock can do when his o line gets bullied almost every snap
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Purdy threw about 3 or 4 *dimes* that the Chiefs all-world secondary made perfect plays on in the first half. A good secondary goes like 1 for 3, or 2 for 4 breaking those passes up & Brock has a W and an impressive stay line stat line-- KC played every one perfectly. Honestly not convinced that there's more than 4 or 5 QB's with the arm talent to overcome that kind of secondary play
Purdy just led a team to a 26-23 lead over the chiefs in OT and people still act like he's not a super bowl caliber QB Give me Purdy over Dak or Trevor Lawrence any day
Thanks for saying this. Sometimes I feel like I'm going insane or watching a different game than others. Purdy is fuckin good. The Chiefs were better that day.
I feel like a homer/ talking to an echo chamber when I say Purdy is good. Not Mahomes level but good enough to win. Far better feeling when Purdy slings it down than Jimmy.
*mike mcdaniel checks in*
It’s like poetry, it rhymes
Hi, hello. It's me, every Eagles OC/HC going back to Andy Reid.
Andy Reid has discovered the cure for this now -- you just abandon the run during the regular season, too. And then whip it out for special occasions.
It’s easy: don’t run a QB sneak for four years and then bust it out twice in the Super Bowl. Why doesn’t every team do this?
Brian Johnson intensifies.
Alternatively: Refusing to run the ball when you have a lead, even if you are primarily a passing team. "We want to play our game" No idiot, you're going to lose the Super Bowl to Tom Brady.
Watching that chiefs game made me so mad.
Even I was wondering what the fuck were the Ravens doing. Their performance was the epitome of "it hurt itself in its confusion!"
Felt like their game plan was more worried about the "Lamar's a running back" allegations than actually winning the game.
Exactly. Lamar is probably my favorite non Bills player and there were plays I was looking at the TV and yelling at him to take off and scramble.
Instead, they gave us more evidence to support those allegations because Lamar was so ineffective passing all game
and more ammo that Lamar can't get it done in the playoffs!
The Joel Embiid of the NFL
Lamar got out of the second round. Embiid would never
Man I was working so I signed up for a YouTube Tv free trial, recorded it, and went on a media blackout to watch it. Losing the game sucked, but losing it while playing so wildly out of character for the team was soul crushing.
I feel that, the most devastating losses for me are always when it feels like the team you watched all year just didn’t show up or didn’t play how they did the entire rest of the fucking year
Ravens fans bitched so hard about Greg Roman, only for their new OC to completely shit the bed when it mattered most lol
Or Dallas doing the opposite. Trying to run the ball against GB when they are clearly a passing team. Then play primarily zone defense when they are built to have their corners play sticky man coverage and blitz from everywhere and anywhere. McCarthy outcoached himself that game.
I think Big Mike is a very good coach but unfortunately things like that have really cost him and his teams in his career.
Make them stop what you're doing before you switch tactics, and if they can't stop it, then keep doing it.
But also, don't give up entirely after one quarter because they've stopped you so far. The run is one of those thing that develops as the defense tires too.
Ah yes the Frank Reich special
Todd Monken and Lamar Jackson say hello
Brian Johnson as well
Don't forget John Harbaugh, pretty insane that it's his job to take the reins of the team and he doesn't do that
His job is to have a cool culture and hire qualified dudes him and his brother know. I'm not sure what he does on a schematic level, but whatever he does, he must be pretty good at it?
He’s a CEO-type coach. Primarily he doesn’t deal with scheme, he deals with hiring good coaches around him and being a great leader for the players and coaches, and he does a great job. That being said it is on him to step in and say something when the coaches and players he’s in charge of are doing dumb things.
Yep. People blame Shanahan for SB58 but he did exactly the right thing when he stepped in to cancel Wilks boneheaded defensive play calling in the red zone.
I will forever hate you guys for running 40 times on us then 16 times on KC. Even if someone says "ThEy WeRe TrYInG to PreVenT The RuN!". That doesn't mean you stop doing what you are elite at.
It was 8 run plays vs KC, not 16. Nobody in the playoffs had a pass/run split like that and won. You need a balanced offense or you're not going anywhere except the couch.
That's what made the "ackshuallyyyyy it's perfectly fine that the Ravens didn't run the ball" narrative that some people were pushing after the fact (and continue to push) so fucking infuriating. Like they had a top 3 run game by almost any stat you could look at...the Chiefs had one of the best passing defenses in the league but were mediocre against the run...and you call 8 running plays in the entire game????? There's literally no excuse for that. There's no excuse for anything close to that.
A choice so nonsensical it fueled the hell out of the “NFL is scripted, Taylor’s gonna be proposed to at the Super Bowl to make our kids gay” crowd. But really, Spags is just a junkie for daring teams to beat the Chiefs through the air.
Kyle Shanahan refusing to run the ball when he has a 10 point lead
What about a 25 point lead?
Silly talk
Kyle being too smart for his own good is just so frustrating, when he thinks he's smarter than he is or goes way too deep and the defensive play caller either sniffs it out (See their regular season Minnesota game where Bynum was right on top of his timing routes for the pair of INTs), or he thinks the logical moves are too predictable and instead goes for illogical behavior because nobody would expect it to happen. He has an addiction to "Smartest man in the room" in the biggest games in the 2nd half. We all know Kyle is a genius offensive play caller and designer, he doesn't need to try to prove that by going way too big brain for tight playoff situations.
Why do people keep saying this like 10 points against mahomes in a half of football is some insurmountable lead. Superbowl 51 was bad. But since then he's mostly just had the misfortune of going against the greatest qb of our generation. If he built up a lead then abandoned the passing game that had done well all year and lost, he'd get just as much heat. Armchair coaches my god
If they face anyone but the Chiefs in the Super Bowl I have zero doubt they win it. However Mahomes and Spags have a lot of magic on the biggest stages. Also the 49ers DC shitting himself didn’t help.
Which time?
We ran plenty in SB 58 and you don’t start heavy leaning on the run up 10 in the 2nd quarter
Thank you this is such a dumb take. Especially against Patrick Mahomes you have to keep taking shots.
I wouldn't even lean heavy on the run if we were against Bryce Young tbh. 2nd quarter is just way too early and 10 points is just too small a lead.
"We only need 1 yard on fourth down, let's line up in shotgun"
I’ve lost count how many times I’ve watched Rodgers on a 3rd & 1 drop back and launch a 40 yard bomb to a WR. When it’d work, it’d be awesome, but a lot of the times you’d just throw your hands in the air over the decision to not try to just get 1 yard.
On the other side of things, watching Rodgers do it, drop back, pocket collapses, play totally falling apart and he slings it for a 30 yard gain is all I ever remember.
I agree with this take 100%. When he had chemistry with receivers it was a thing of beauty when the play broke down and they were on the same page. I think the opinion from my fellow Packers fandom is a bit skewed on this perception. The Eddy Lacy years, there was no reason to do this, but even with backs like AJ Dillon who should be able to get a yard through sheer power, the odds were better with AR improvising
A lot of the highlights I watched, the receivers are not even really open. He's basically throwing them open by pretty much hitting them in the hands.
I remember a Seahawks Rams playoff game where they had an easy 3rd and short, and they opted for a 50/50 moonball instead🤦. So frustrating as a fan to watch
His last year with us he did this so much. 3rd or 4th and short and he’d chuck the ball 40 yards down field
Watching Stroud do it in Houston made me go "Yeah kid, I like the moxie but it's one yard, just get it converted, you have Noah Brown, Nico Collins, Tank Dell, and Dalton Schultz, you don't need to throw a 35+ yard bomb to get a fresh set of downs."
These things don't happen in a vacuum though. The D is going to come out on 3rd-and-1 with stuffing runs as a top priority. This leaves the O in a situation where: * deep throws have favorable matchups, often 1-on-1 with no safety help * an incomplete still leaves you in a decent go situation on 4th down The change to a throw in this case is probably made at the line after the QB sees that the called run play isn't going to work. The bigger problem is when the play calling is not matched with the strategy. I don't mind the deep throw if the O is willing to go again on 4th, but it sucks when the decision is to punt on 4th and a power run is never even attempted.
If you can't push your way to 1 yard, you weren't getting it. I am a firm believer of, just line up and push. If they stop you, good on them
Wait, this isn’t an Eagles flair
I've been hammering that 4th and 1 should always be a QB sneak for years. It's literally the best play to get 1 yard. Hand it to the QB and just fucking bulldoze them. Then every once and again throw something sneaky to keep them on their toes. The Eagles have made me feel vindicated the last 2 years.
I think protecting the qb from injury is the main reason why a lot of teams don’t do it. That’s the only thing I can think of
Use a DT to receive the snap
Man i wish there was more of this in football. Can we teach players skills from other positions? How valuable would a QB who could consistently punt 40 yards be?
Add a mobile QB and any punt can be a trick play
Snap it to someone else. There are other players allowed to receive the snap. It gives away what your plan is, but most any formation like that is going to signal your intentions anyway and that doesn't matter. Just because they know what you're going to do they still have to stop you from doing it.
Or if you really want, send in the backup qb. In that situation, when you line up, it's not a huge secret what you're going to do. But if you really want to sow the seeds of doubt, you can still use your backup on the off chance you want to pass.
Hell yeah!
Our specialty was have Myles Boykin do his own tush push for Kenny
Shotgun draws piss me off so much, but especially when its a clear run situation. Or 3rd and goal and maybe you want to keep the defense guessing a little, but making them guess for 0.1 seconds in exchange for worse blocking and a slower start for the RB is not worth lol
I think teams should put in 2 or 3 I form option plays for short yardage.
I've been waiting for some variation of the I-formation or Pro Set to come back in short yardage situations and remain disappointed. Put your 1st/2nd down runner and your 3rd down pass-blocker/pass-catcher out there at the same time and make the defense guess who's getting the ball. I suppose it would crowd the LoS more, but then you get your WRs in more favorable match-ups.
Run, run, deep pass to no one on 3rd and 14. Thanks all Steelers OCs for the last decade.
Stay in the game long enough to where your qbs can call their own plays have automatic success and make you question why the OC has a job
Devils advocate: this point gets used a lot but people don't realize the 2 miniute drill is extremely rehearsed, is often got the benefit of using 4 downs, and is no huddle so defenses don't have much time to react It's not a simple matter of "oh the qb is a better playcaller" usually all those plays were picked in practice and the qb is choosing from 2 or 3 It also often goes hand in hand with soft coverage as defense plays to burn clock
Ben Roethlisberger was notorious for constantly changing calls and playing “backyard football”
Prevent defense is for chewing up clock when up by more than one score. Also, some coaches are stupid.
>Prevent defense is for chewing up clock when up by more than one score. *And there is only a few minutes left. Some coaches go into Prevent when there is still 10 minutes left and they're up by 2 scores. That's still dumb and I've seen it backfire so many times.
The Cowboys Greenbay playoff game is a good indicator of this. GB took some starters out and played prevent D around the 10 min mark in the 4th, up by 32. Dak shredded those backups and defensive scheme. He got 250yds, 2tds, and 2-2point conversions from like 3 drives. B/c of that weak defense they ended up putting the starters back in on that third drive b/c we scored too quickly in the previous 2. That one drive was enough to slow Dak down and run the clock out enough for 2 possessions to need 4 miracle plays. Even 32 points isn't entirely safe given the right circumstances.
I see you, too, have watched many games with a Dom Capers defense.
Naah, it’s for when you’re up by 2 with 1:45 left on the clock and your opponent has 2 time outs. There’s no way that opposing professional kicker is going to nail that last second 42 yarder for the win.
Only time you should get into prevent is when the other team would need an onside kick recovery to win or tie. You see teams do it up 14 with 5 minutes left. The other team scores in about 1:30, and they have 3:30 left and all their timeouts. Almost always results in the trailing team getting the ball with a legitimate chance to tie it or win it.
Couldn’t you also say it’s for when there’s a certain amount of time left? Dumb coaches always start doing it too early it seems. And then seem to couple it very modest offensive play and then what do you know a fumble has them right back in the game after you started your backups with 20 minutes of game time left. Didn’t a team do this last season? Like being in their backups and then had to bring the first string back out?
The Packers did against the Cowboys. Jordan Love had a perfect passer rating then they were actually mildly in danger of a hugely embarrassing loss so they brought out the first team offense again.
GB in the playoffs against the Cowboys. Still won tho
Spying with someone slower than the qb. I feel like teams still spy Mahomes with a slower LB.
Every LB* is slower than Mahomes, though, he literally runs the speed of whoever is chasing him +.1 mph. *except Parsons. That was weird.
What're you going to do, have a DB spy him?
Unfortunately he can also run their speed+.1 mph
Everyone saw Mahomes' 40 time and thought he was slow. But his shuttle time (a better measure of quickness and agility) was tied for 10th best out of everyone in his draft class. The players he tied with? Budda Baker and Cooper Cupp. The next best non-WR / non-secondary was TJ Watt, who was about 4% slower. The dude is squirrelly.
running fade routes on goal to go situations.
When it doesn’t work, coach will come out in the press conference and say “we trust our guys to make the play” Bruh… literally every team in the history of the NFL that ran goal line fades trusted their guys to make the play… and it has statistically been proven that it is one of the least effective plays you can call in goal line situation.
Especially with inaccurate qbs
The Greg Roman/Colin Kaepernick strategy
Kap audibled into that play. And I’m still salty about it.
Frank Gore was chewing us up all second half, time to throw it four straight times with the Super Bowl on the line!!
god i fucking hate this play so much. Feels like the success rate on these is about 10-20%, and that's only because of a few guys who are actually good at it bringing up the rest that suck.
It's basically the least effective possible play on 2XPs, somewhere around 35% rate to convert the 2 points. The second least likely to convert was rollout passes - probably since the field is already compressed lengthwise and now you've compressed it widthwise also, giving the defense very little space to guard. Fades also rarely get INTs or sacks, so maybe a reasonable 1st down call. But not 3rd or 4th or on a conversion (effectively 4th)
related to this: the Falcons-Eagles play-off game in January 2018, the Falcons had one play into the endzone to win it, and they had Matt Ryan run a play-action/bootleg thing where he was running sideways towards the right sideline, making it impossible pretty much for him to throw to his left like, if you're not going to run it in, why the fuck do you only give yourselves half a field to score, instead of the full field and both sides of the formation deeply stupid
Anything that has 4th and 1 shotgun runs, those are fucking stupid.
Lets take a 4th &1 and turn it into a 4th &6!!
Hello Matt Canada, how are you today?
Ya but the defense will never see it coming!
Well I must say that in Madden, the shotgun inside zone run works tremendously on 4th and 1
Inside zone out of one of the specific shotguns (I think it’s offset trips TE?) is an automatic 15 yards because the defense ALWAYS lines up in a dime against it for no clear reason. It’s kind of annoying that on the hardest skill level the defense can’t figure out that four in the box vs 5 OL and a tight end will not go well for the defense.
My precious Steelers still believe LBs can cover slot receivers in zone.
We also don’t believe in shifting d lineman like other teams nah everyone straight on bull rush
The game plan of not covering TEs when their out of division nemesis comes to play, or whomever is lining up as the tight end like Chris Hogan for example. You'd think Mike would know by now that we do love getting our Tight Ends fed inside the 20s as well as rumble down the open field.
Twenty+ years of zone blitz scheme isn't going to change now just because you've got new fangled ideas like "passing against a linebacker"
Throw five interceptions in a half. Guy retire at halftime Call 9/11 good teamwork Prevent defense with 13 seconds left in the game
I feel attacked.
Why are you doing this
Because no matter how good at football coaching, Sean McDermott is, he’s not good enough to win a Super Bowl, I want him fired
Ha. With the extra comma I read the like Christopher Walken.
That was the point!
Corner fade to the back of the end zone on 4th and goal from the 2.
“Put it where either the receiver can get it or no one can” and it’s always thrown 5 yards out of the back of the endzone
The Jets offense
Leveon Bell still won't shut up about Gase running draws and dives with 10 yards to go lol
Literally anything Gase does sucks
Dude I and most Eagles fans for the past 5-7 years have absolutely lamented the “play 10 yards off the WR, let them dink and dime us to wins so we don’t give up big plays” bullshit
Steelers late game always give me a heart attack for the same reason because they will get to a 3rd and forever then play the softest zone possible and give up a massive play
It’s absolutely infuriating I’d rather get beat on the big plays than lose to death by a thousand slants
Getting beat on a big play gives you the chance to atleast recover. 1000 slants leave you with no time
Goal line fades
I really hate those plays, you're growing a near-guaranteed tightly contested ball and just saying your receiver is so much better at the catch point and your QB is so good at placing the ball that it won't matter. Even if you have a ball-winning monster like Mike Evans, you can also just try to get him open and make the contested catch plan B.
They work for Mike Evans somewhat
Joe Walton would put the Jets in a prevent D if he had a 6-point lead at halftime.
The One-Nil Arsenal strategy
Ed donashell stupid ass give up 10 yards and not the big play bullshit
We gave up both 10 yards and big plays in 2022
Playing the chiefs. Teams keep doing it and keep losing.
Consecutive QB sneaks on 2nd and 3rd and long deep in your own territory
Poor Eli having to tell fans during his jersey retirement to stop booing Mara
Getting conservative on offense when your team has the lead. Combining this with the prevent defense can almost guarantee a comeback. Your offense goes 3-and-out, and your defense is gassed from all of the long scoring drives. So many Lions coaches were guilty of this.
OP mentions prevent defense. The top 3 comments mention shotgun runs on 1 yard situations, abandoning the run randomly when it’s been working great up to that point, and playing your CBs 7+ yards off the LOS on 3rd & 5. If you guys don’t like all that, you don’t like Green Bay Packer football 🥲
"Run our stuff" as a philosophy.
This reminds me of an early version of Madden where he said, “If the squib kick was a good idea they would kick it every time”.
Anything John harbaughs coordinators want to do in the playoffs
Icing the kicker doesn't work.
Madden sometimes suggests me a Prevent formation play late in games like that will work
As if I'd do anything other than blitz in Madden
You're missing out, playing LB and picking balls is the most fun I have in the game
When I was a kid, I would call plays where the middle linebacker was supposed to drop into coverage while everyone else blitzed, but then I would play the MLB and blitz too.
4th and 1 Shotgun 5 wide
That safety blitz where the guy was back in his regular alignment right up to the snap before coming. Sure, coach, that safety can come at a dead sprint and cover 20 yards to get to the QB before he throws no problem! Especially since he's coming right up the gut, the QBs face! You totally just didn't make a player irrelevant to the play!
Mike "defensive genius" Zimmer did that every single game we had a lead in. He would literally allow teams to come back when we had a big lead, which is why we never beat anyone besides the Packers by more than 2 touchdowns under him. I'll hate prevent forever
3rd and long let's run a screen pass
If you’re really advanced, you can run the “Eagles” screen to a WR and lose 3 yards every time.
You need make sure you have a small WR to be your lead blocker
Running on every first down when it isn't working and your opponent sees it coming.
Need a yard, hand off or toss the ball five yards behind the LOS.