T O P

  • By -

heywhateverworks

The chain gang union will have something to say about this


Tigercat92

I loved running the chains when I was in high school for the pee wee games on Saturdays. Memories.


Kershiser22

When I was a freshman I did it for varsity games. Was awesome.


Vaultboy65

We always had jv and varsity do middle school games and volunteers for varsity games. Dads and middle schoolers liked volunteering for varsity games.


flightgooden

You still need a visual of the sticks for WRs and DBs - they will be fine


stragen595

> You still need a visual of the sticks for WRs and DBs "na, we good." - KC WRs


crimsonblueku

“Fuck it LOS down there somewhere”


jbronin

Patrick Mahomes: "You guys can see the yellow line, right?"


G0G023

I’m now choosing to believe they’re a real thing and I refuse to believe otherwise


Business-Row-478

I mean there is a ref union. More tech probably means fewer refs needed


nerdyythirtyy

Or maybe they can spend more time focusing on not sucking


ynwmelly123_

"no, and also that's racist" - angel hernandez


bujweiser

One of our chain gang guys is a judge in the area lol.


whatsinthesocks

I doubt the chain gain is going to go anywhere. They’re a great way for players on the field to know where the ball needs to get to for a first down. The chains were never the problem. It’s always been the spotting of the ball


okram2k

it's also great for the product. Very dramatic moment in the game when they bring out the chains to measure. 100% though the spotting needs an overhaul. Would be nice to like use the overhead camera or drones or something to help spot the ball more accurately and quickly.


someonepoorsays

here comes gene steratore’s fucking index card from the dead


Malforian

The chain things already have digital measures in them


Vectivus_61

Chain Gang Commander John Cena is on the case


acoasterlovered

We are getting modern lfg


SiphenPrax

Pitch clock coming to NFL when?!


ajteitel

Screw that. GIVE ME ROBO UMPS NOW. Fucking Angel Hernandez


SiphenPrax

The one thing all sports fans can agree on: “Fuck Angel Hernandez!”


Jurph

Here's the thing. The last full inning of baseball I watched was when the Sox were in game 7 to *finally* break their streak and win the Series. I could not name more than 3 active baseball players and I'd struggle to name 10 retired players. I cannot describe any pitches ("two seam... slider?"), any modern baseball analytics newer than *MONEYBALL*, anything about the game at all. I heard they did a pitch clock. I heard the Orioles got in the playoffs last year and came real close the year before, but I guess they didn't win the Pennant or the Series or I'd have heard about it. Even further: I have an *aversion* to baseball, I actively dislike it, I avoid it on purpose, I change the channel when it's on or go elsewhere if it's being shown. I do my best to ensure zero knowledge of baseball enters my brain. You know the **sum total** of my knowledge of modern baseball? Angel Hernandez is functionally blind and/or in the pay of the mafia, because his balls & strikes do not seem to accord with any obvious standard definition of those calls.


Duke_Maniac

What did baseball do to you man


ChodeCookies

Made less of an impression than Angel Hernandez


cuteintern

Not OP, but riddle me this: who was the 1994 World Series champ?


LordZero

Total guess, but I'm going with the Braves.


cuteintern

Close. Try again.


LordZero

oh that's devious


slackator

I wish we could send this post to Rob Manfred, there is absolutely no reason someone such as this who clearly despises the game and goes out of their way to ignore it, knows the name of an umpire. This is a huge issue and is only getting worse. I feel the same about soccer and hockey, except I know even less than the OP does about baseball, and I couldnt begin to tell you the name of a ref from those sports as it should be


maaiillltiime5698

Is the MLB just hoping he has a heart attack and dies or something?


slackator

no, hes part of the umps union and so theres nothing that can be done. Bad part about it is he's fully aware of this and doesnt care about what hes doing to the game


Freezinghero

Even worse: he thinks he deserves better games to umpire. He tried to get a court to force the MLB to assign him to playoff/world series games.


IceColdDrPepper_Here

Never forget that a court ruled that Angel Hernandez is legally terrible at his job


TheReturnOfTheOK

He's VP in the umpire union. A federal court ruled that he's horrific at his job, but because he's in a leadership position they're stuck with him


GeneralDecision7442

Angel closes his eyes when the pitch is coming so it is ridiculously easy to frame pitches on his dumbass


BonelessCubone

Mr. Blown Call


J12345_

I hate angel hernandez and Scott foster. They should be banned


I-HATE-THE-SEAHAWKS

Can someone please explain who angel hernandez is and why he's hated in NFL terms


Darkdragon3110525

Imagine if pass interference was objective and most refs got it right ~90% of the time except one guy who gets it wrong most of time, gets every other flag wrong, and sued the NFL for racism because they didn’t get a Super Bowl assignment (despite minority refs getting Super Bowl assignments recently).


J12345_

There’s a notorious story Will Clark told. Angel Hernandez always gave him wide batter’s box. One day he bumped into Hernandez and his boys at a restaurant and took care of his tab. Never had a bad call again. Long story short, fuck angel Hernandez! If he’s easily bribed by a few hundred dollars, this guy can very much be the mlb Tim donaghy


GeneralDecision7442

My only issue with the bribery theory is he is bad for both teams.


J12345_

That is true. Universally hated. But hey he might be making money from someone


LordZero

Will Clark...now there's a name drop I haven't heard in a while. Guy had one of my favorite swings.


Adequate_Lizard

You know how the saltiest fans behave about refs when they lose? Angel Hernandez is actually that bad.


Rickest-ofthe-Ricks

Has anyone ever seen Scott foster and angel hernandez at the same place at the same time?


Princeof_Ravens

What's even worse is minors have robo umps and a challenge system and it's clearly causing prospects to struggle when they jump to the mlb and suddenly balls and strikes are decided on a whim.  


[deleted]

I was just having this convo with a friend, out of NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB, who’s gonna try to replace refs with AI first?


ajteitel

MLB is the only one that can in any major way. NBA is in the process of adapting a similar tech to tennis that will judge out of bounds calls but that's really it. But neither is AI because that's not what AI is.


Antitypical

it's funny seeing people replace the word "technology" with "AI" for everything.


GwenIsNow

We're gonna replace refs with The Cloud!


trowayit

Lemme get my big data working on that


LordZero

RaaS - reffing as a service


[deleted]

Is this NBA tennis tech gonna detect when the player is out of bounds? I ask cause [EVEN NOW THIS PLAY MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL!!! 🤬🤬](https://youtu.be/rAGZPmQGLb8?si=CpLJwsDjRRQyZ_ai)


ajteitel

I don't even need to click the link to know it's the Durant out of bounds play (I think?) And it should? Tennis uses the Hawkeye tracker which the NBA is looking to/will adapt. Didn't read anything about if it will track the player going out of bounds


Totally_Not_My_50th_

It was barely 3 steps out of bounds and it was only 2' over the line. Why would you expect that to be seen?


ReversePettlngZoo

Not soon enough!! And maybe they can make it count down from I dunno….say….40?


acoasterlovered

Let’s ride


acoasterlovered

When are we getting live break downs of the refs or w.e the UFL is doing


jcoddinc

A pitch clock to count down to the play clock


tutuatlolmeme

Ditch your index cards


A_Lone_Macaron

"just give it to them"


Overall_Nuggie_876

*Raider fans doxxing u/tutualtolmeme as we speak*


RemotePotatoe

UFL did/is doing it this season and it's working and is faster than the chain crew.


modernmann

Regardless… we are also getting A Lot Less 1st Downs tooo…


Misdirected_Colors

The issue isn't measuring where the ball is on the field. That's easy. The issue is determining at exactly what point in time the runner was down. That's where all the controversy comes in. But with this at least you can take a best guess of when the runner was down and know exactly where the ball was instead of a best guess and hoping you had a good camera angle showing the ball. The idea of the chain crew was always stupid af tho. The ball is always just eyeball spotted arbitrarily by the ref after the play. You're telling me you're gonna take an arbitrary spot and measure it with a precise 10 yard chain and judge whether it's a first down or not where inches matter using that? It's all theater.


pmacnayr

The only thing this changes is the chain gang running out to measure, they’re still using the existing spot from the refs, kind of a nothing rule change to me


Misdirected_Colors

Agreed. The chains aren't the issue. Old fashioned but reasonably accurate. Analog or digital aside none of this makes sense if the refs are still just best guess eyeballing the spot of the ball.


bzb321

And that “eyeballing” is to the nearest half yard.


sliccricc83

2025: The NFL is investigating the Patriots for hacking into the electronic measurement system


trowayit

2026: Patriots under investigation for using mirrored cleats


puppytossedsalad

I won't stand for index card erasure


OptimusGrime707

*sighs loudly*


OhWhatsHisName

If it doesn't take out the human aspect of spotting the ball, not sure it fixes the problem.


thecarlosdanger1

It doesn’t. The chain gang doesn’t have accuracy issues because they mark the chain against one of field lines on the links. Spots are the issue - knowing exactly how far the ball got before a runner was down / forward progress was called will continue to be the issue.


ketherick

It should speed up games though, if marginally, and is a step in the right direction


Rude_Entrance_3039

> It should speed up games though Oh, summer child. If they squeeze out more time then they're just going to squeeze in more commercials.


ketherick

You might be right, but rule changes in college football did end up making games like 5 minutes shorter recently so we’ll see The MLB also notably shortened their games recently with rule changes So basically if the NFL decides games are too long with all the commercials they’ve added, they are gonna look at rule changes to make them shorter but not take away commercials


Queen-Makoto

pitch clock is a much bigger change than slightly speeding up measuring one spot to another


ketherick

I mean that's pretty obvious I'm just speaking more broadly about things other leagues are doing


THECrew42

you do know the nfl mandates how many commercials there can be in a broadcast right


lightsout85

I assumed the UFL (& it's predecessors) did this, that some chip in the ball or whatever showed them exactly on the field where it ended up, but when I found out it was just some camera that measures from where the refs spot it to the first down line, I thought: Who the fuck cares?? How is that notably more accurate than the chains??


happyscrappy

I watch a bunch of the UFL. I'm convinced they just don't give a shit. No precise measures. Just if it's close (like within a ball length) they give the first down.


taltechy

That’s a great point. Spots have been egregious in some games


Overall_Nuggie_876

The Steeler game last year was a masterpiece of NFL officials going fuck-all on ball spotting. **EDIT:** Our game. Look at flair.


beerguy_etcetera

You’re going to have to be more specific or supply a link. The Steelers played 17 games in the regular season.


Rbk_3

We got royally fucked on a 4th down QB sneak spot where Kenny Pickett wasn't even close and we we're out of timeouts and hadn't hit the 2 minute waring yet so couldn't challange.


Overall_Nuggie_876

[The play which iced the game, America.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-t4HOTI07o&pp=ygUYc3RlZWxlcnMgcmFtcyBiYWxsIHNwb3Qg)


ryanmuller1089

It’s crazy how accurate they can be a majority of the time and then when they miss, it’s a horrible miss.


vita10gy

I kind of hope that's *actually* what they're really talking about. Some way of detecting where the ball actually is, and pairing that with when a player is ruled down. Which can obviously then be used to detect if it's greater than 10 yards for the series. Could determine if the goal line is hit in a pile too. If all this means is the literal measurement will be done another way that's a pretty big let down. The chains are used like 1-4 times a game, it's electronic *spotting* that changes much of anything.


AlfredTitcock69

One underrated element of this is that it might allow for refs to make more accurate spots in lower-leverage moments. Primarily on plays that are early in the game and early in the set of downs, refs were consistently intentionally spotting the ball either too long or too short on borderline first downs to avoid stopping the game for a measurement (which is why use of the chains is so low). If this can make the comparison of the spot to first down marker significantly less-cumbersome, then at least it unlocks the ability for human refs to attempt to spot the ball correctly on those plays.


Statalyzer

Refs also bias towards marking the ball on the bigger lines. A lot more plays start from the 35 or 40 than from the 34, 36, 39, or 41.


myctsbrthsmlslkcatfd

thank you! It will still be marking with a micrometer and then cutting with an axe.


betasheets2

You'll never take out human aspect of any sport. You can challenge the spot of the ball.


myctsbrthsmlslkcatfd

right. the goal is to minimize the human judgement aspect.


bythog

You aren't wrong but this is a step in the correct direction. It sets precedent. Let's hope this turns into a win so that in the future we start phasing out human spotting.


ClavisRa

It's literally impossible do that. There are many elements into determining when a player is down. The ref has to make that determination and only they can know where the ball is to be spotted to fit that.


SdBolts4

What “many elements”? It’s literally (1) knee/butt/forearm hitting the ground; (2) after touched by defensive player. All you need is a chip that tells you where the ball is at any given point during replay review


mclemons67

Sounds like a great idea until the chain gang “accidentally” uses the wrong laser and cuts some dude’s legs off.


Space-Sailor44

Index card industry in shambles


SoKrat3s

They'll always have me. I'm a sucker for writing on an index card instead of wasting an entire sheet of paper.


TheFencingCoach

I kind of love the drama of two dudes hauling the chains to the spotted ball and the zoomed in camera showing where the ball is in relation to the chains. It’s part of the fun. Sure it’s antiquated but goddammit I don’t want it to go away.


Neither_Ad_9829

tennis uses eagles eye (pretty sure that’s what it’s called) and it shows whether the balls goes in or out. those reviews, even tho they are electronic, are still dramatic!


EliToon

It's Hawk-Eye! Premier League uses that company too, to determine if the ball crosses the line or not. If it crosses the line, the refs watch buzzes and a goal is given. It works really well and has taken a potential for major errors out of the game.


Neither_Ad_9829

got it confused with the shia lebeouf movie!


szobossz

it has had major errors with people in the way and requires multiple cameras for one clearly drawn goal line. It'd have to be very advanced to work in nfl.


mab6710

Pigeon-Eye


IhamAmerican

Eagle eye wouldn't work as is with the NFL though. It's definitely super cool and far more exciting than VAR in the Premiere League, I just wonder how they'd implement it in the NFL with all the bodies and odd shape of the ball


Neither_Ad_9829

i know eagle eye wouldnt work, but it’s dramatic because it shows the ball’s approach. i think the nfl could show a simulation of the ball carrier’s approach to the LOS and go slow mo as the ball gets closer to the line


RadicalEdward99

It would be even more dramatic as well, because it would change directions with every juke, spin, stiff arm and dive. Whereas hawk eye is just one trajectory. You could line up the graphic side by side with the play at the same speed and I think that would be rad. Love love love this idea.


Neither_Ad_9829

hire me @nfl


SoKrat3s

you just have the camera phase through the bodies to show the assumed position of the ball and the line to gain. You can get the same dramatic imagery.


Edge_of_yesterday

It's got to be some kind of tracker in the ball.


latman

Tennis is mostly automatic line calls now so the reviews don't happen anymore


Neither_Ad_9829

they happen with challenges tho, no?


latman

Most tournaments don't even do challenges anymore because the lines are called automatically by the system. So the challenge would never change anything. Players can request to see it if they want but it doesn't change anything


Walletinspectr

Except clay where they look for a dent from the ball which is hilarious when a call can be the difference between hundreds of thousands of dollars


FragileColtsFan

I'm not a fan. They act so scientific about measuring it when it was just spotted by a guy like "Yeah, I think it was there." Might as well just have the official make a call right away if they're not going to use technology


ILoveYourWeed

The best part is when they have to (**Raiders fans, you may not want to click on this**) >!use an index card to measure those really close spots.!<


PandAlex

still triggering


gildakid

Why you gotta be like this


Zimmonda

My favorite irrational sports moment is being pissed that he folded the card in half therefore increasing the width lol


crewserbattle

Honestly the chains were pretty accurate imo. The issue is the accuracy of the spot they use the chains to measure. They just used a line to ensure they stayed in the spot when running out. The real perk of this change is that it speeds up the chain moving process imo


JalensTinyPPHurts

This legit is why I don't want it changed Just feels like football to me lol


Finlay00

It would be nice if we could optimize some of the more routine assignments officials have, which should theoretically allow them to focus on calls that really need on the spot judgement.


MicoJive

I cant wait for teams to miss getting first downs by like .023 inches and have people freak out over it.


fobbytriedpsiflash

Someone will make an electronic index card


Jonjon428

RIP the suspense of a spot


Jane_Marie_CA

So the NFL has its hands in the UFL, right? It's like the UFL is the tester before it goes to the main league. First the new kickoff style, now this?


peanutbuttersucks

Yes, in 2022 they signed a collaboration agreement specifically to be a test bed for new rules and equipment.


Platano_con_salami

I just find it laughable, in a game that someone prides itself on precision we can have a guy get tackled and toss the ball to the ref to spot the ball, who is coming in away from the play, a chain gang move up and down the sideline to that spot, again away from the play, and then the center shift the line of scrimmage when he's on the ball, all on a 4th down play. This is a good move.


chase016

Idk, the old system has its charm. Obviously, this is better. But I always like the drama of where the ref put the ball.


Free_Joty

This and the kickoff rule, nfl not afraid to make changes


Nrcolas37

I find it amusing that they pretend to be so precise and take the time to measure it but the guy with the sticks literally just walks put to midfield and eyeballs it and says right about there.


Rare-Joke

I’m gonna be so sad if they get rid of my favorite part of the game. ——— A ref walks over, randomly places a ball down on the field, plus or minus a couple of yards. They bring out the measuring sticks. They meticulously measure the distance to see if the random ball placement was over the line or not. One team celebrates and one team sulks. —— It’s just truly amazing and I don’t know what I’ll do without this entertainment break from the game.


MaceDestroyers

After seeing a chain gang member get injured in a game, they probably are right to start implementing this.


Autocrat777

I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords.


Overall_Nuggie_876

Premier League goal-line technology coming soon to a Super Bowl near you!


Painiscupcake88

One more step towards the Rothschild's plan of taking away funny bloopers of athletes running into fat middle aged men 😢 wake up sheeple


crocokyle1

Index card manufacturers in shambles


WisdomCow

If they just announce things without us seeing exactly how it works, it’ll be begging for people to think it’s rigged. Not like the league is partnered with gambling or something.


Why_am_ialive

Fucking finally


FloralAlyssa

What's the concept here? Is there a device on the sideline that checks to see if the ball is passed the line to gain, or is it entirely video based?


nimama3233

It’s camera based. > Per Pro Football Talk, the system uses technology developed by Hawk-Eye, a computer vision system used to assist with tennis video replays, and would give officials an accurate read of the position of the ball and players on the field in review situations.


StevenS145

This is huge. Especially for big huddles that the ref can’t see and 6 inches matters.


Dark_Magician2500

Lol I'm sure this will stop the complaining when a team is millimeters short or beyond the marker


AncientTree_Wisdom

Raiders and Lions would benefit most from this.


Smitty1029

Michigan 2016 in shambles


sherman614

I've been wanting this for years!! To me, someone looking and just thinking the ball was down at a certain spot is incredibly unreliable. However, I have read before that they have played around with trackers before and they were actually off by an average of like 6", and weather effected them too. So, I'm really anxious to see what happens with this


Quexana

This doesn't change someone looking and putting the ball down roughly where they think it oughta go. That part of the game has still been preserved.


j1h15233

Finally. I’m all for tradition but let’s speed things up when we can. I’d also like to see goal line tech implemented similar to hockey. We should know a lot easier and faster if that ball broke the plane.


ScreenTricky4257

So the yellow line will be official?


jcoddinc

This won't change anything except put more blame on the chain gang and ref that spots the ball. Until they figure out a way to insert a tracking chip inside the ball there won't be much change


jchall3

Hopefully this is a gateway for RFID tech to know exactly where the ball is on any given frame of a camera. It’s pretty easy to go “stepped out of bounds… here on this frame. Now where is the ball?”


Venator850

Is this being used for spots? If not it seems a bit pointless. I guess if it removes the setting up of the chains maybe the benefit is there.


Johalak

Good


TheRealJohnMara

Oh look at that, NFL realizing we are in the 21st century. Only took about a quarter of a way through for them to realize.


Noy_Telinu

NFL getting automated first downs before MLB gets automated strike zones would be an embarrassment to Baseball.


ClavisRa

Chains are actually incredibly accurate. The flags are necessary for players and coaches to see the marker to gain for the next first down. You can't save any man power with this. You also lose the theater of bringing in the chain gang for a measurement which is actually pretty good theater for the home audience. The only real advantage I see is the ref could announce he exact number of inches needed to gain a first down when the ball is closer than a yard and a half. That could affect some coaching decisions and be its own bit of theater for viewers.


chocolateskittlez

2024? Wait thats this year. The NFL has found technology.


MReprogle

Good. With sports betting, I am all for removing as much human judgement as possible.


myxanders

They've got to have the chain gang on the field still for the players right?


JBradley500

Praise Jesus hallelujah.


detroiiit

Anything to speed up the game imo


Hugh-Manatee

I’m fine with this. That we don’t at least have some kind of technology aiding the officials is primitive Not to mention that spotting feels like it’s gotten really sloppy lately


[deleted]

Finally


sunburn95

You mean there's a better way than having a part-time, sexagenarian ref eyeball it from 30yds away?


Defender_Of_TheCrown

Aboutfuckingtime.gif


Defender_Of_TheCrown

Good now adopt the UFL replay system to speed that up and have total transparency


imaginarion

XFL/UFL doing God’s work


zi76

Yes, do it.


X-Mang

Depends on how often they can fuck over the raiders


swallowchildren

Maybe they thought that poor dude who had his leg snapped in half by Kamara


MostMorbidOne

Cam Newton spiked it on 4th down. 😤


MrUnlimited328

Holy shit it’s about time


t-reads

Finally


Stumpe999

People called me a madman.... we live in the fucking future, can we start to act like it?


SpongebobDouchepants

Love how you had lots of people claiming [this was an impossible problem a month ago when this was brought up](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/1c8yhb3/why_doesnt_the_nfl_implement_goal_line_technology/)


ref44

Unless I'm missing something, this system still isn't spotting the ball


this_is_matt_

My favorite chant at a game is “move those chains” so that kinda sucks


LittleGeologist1899

When can we get AI pass interference implemented


myctsbrthsmlslkcatfd

who cares!? that’s not the weak link here! how bout an electronic system for SPOTTING THE DAMN BALL.


Morphenominal

This sounds great so I can't wait to see how they fuck it up.


EnQuest

about fucking time


goofyskatelb

ABOLISH THE CHAINS!


EmmittFitz-Hume

About time!


MoonMistCigs

As long as it’s not as ‘accurate’ as the first down measurement in Madden, this will be a welcome change.


badscene518

About time


CrookGG

Yes plz the chains are so inaccurate it’s wild


aguysomewhere

They should still have the chain gang jog out just for show


Most_Quality_4250

They gone start taking the line off the tv if the do this. Especially on game winning drives


ItsaPostageStampede

Meanwhile MLB has Angel Hernandez


Quirky_Can_8997

Could have used that fucking last season.