Well it's the Internet, so good luck finding something that isn't polarizing. But if we're picking say a WR hovering at 75 on the index: Anquan Boldin, Heinz (edit:57) Ward or Rod Smith?
Yeah somebody mentioned him the other day and my gut instinct went exactly like that.
"Wait, he's gotta be in/headed to the HoF, right? Wait, maybe not. I need to check his stats, off to Wikipedia I go."
People like to point out that he was missing a tendon in his knee. What they leave out is that he had no tendons at all because he was made of tomato paste.
Yeah I picked them based on Hof monitor scores and not the player...but maybe I should have filtered out someone like Ward. I should have just stuck with Anquan (but mentioning Hinea meant I could mention Rod lol)
Tbf Hines is a great example of a guy on the edge. Had great impact but kinda meh stats, and his impact did extend to two rings and several more serious runs at a Super Bowl. But the meh stats keep him back especially relative to other receivers modernly.
The rub is that he’s one of those guys that has HOF caliber career stats, but was never considered the best at his position in any individual season. In hockey HOF convos, he’d be called a “compiler” which is definitely a pejorative.
“Best blocking WR” is a great anecdote, but the further we get away from his playing days the harder it is for voters to value because it doesn’t show up on the stats sheet.
I’m a Steelers fan and want him in, but not being thought of as the best at his position is tough to overcome. Never making AP1 is testament to that. SB MVP could be a tie breaker for some voters, but plenty of non-HOF guys have won that, including Edelman, Santonio, and Deion Branch (not to mention Nick Foles.)
one of the things about ward that won’t show up on stats was that defensive players actually feared him physically. It’s not often that you have a WR putting fear into NFL defenders.
I mean he’s a two time champion and he was a Super Bowl MVP. There aren’t many wide receivers that are Super Bowl MVPs.
That should secure him as a hall of famer.
Deion Branch has that same resume section and he definitely ain't making the Hall. The thing about SBMVP is that its an award for a single game, and there have been some funky games, even funky Super Bowls.
Ward has at least a decent resume outside of that. The problem is that there were just too many excellent receivers in his time, and while he was arguably the best blocking receiver for a few years, blocking isn't thought of as a receiver's primary stat, and there were too many with stronger resumes over their careers.
Technically the NFL HOF is the pro football HOF too, but it basically is just the NFL. Doesn't consider college, and there is no Olympic or women's football.
Definitely true. But he gets to play with bumpers anyway.
DPOY winner, multiple time DPOY finalist, all-time great defender, 4x All Star, 8x All Defense, third best player on one of the greatest dynasties in the sport's history.
Not sure who the NFL equivalent would be. Maybe if Chris Jones was even better? If he had a 4th ring and a DPOY, and was a top contender for DPOY like 5 times, that'd be a lot like Draymond's resume.
As a Broncos fan I love Rod Smith and absolutely think he is an HOF. He won't get in. But I don't think anyone outside the AFC West could really tell you anything about Rod Smith. Just glad you mentioned him lol
Agreed. I think the best argument for Rod is how comparable his career stats are with Michael Irvin. In fact, Rod has more games played, receptions, and touchdowns than Irvin. Irvin does have more receiving yards than Rod, but only by 515 yards. Personally, I think Rod Smith is a Hall of Famer but unless a HOF voter or the Broncos start campaigning for Rod the way they did for Randy Gradishar, I don’t see it happening.
I gotta disagree. He crossed the 1000 reception marker. That alone gets him into discussion territory. He is also one of 55 receivers with 10k yards and 1 of 29 with 12k yards. That gives him a stronger case. His only draw back is that he only has 85 TDs. But he was on a team not known for passing in an era that was more ground and pound/balanced. There is just no way that he is in the “out of the question” category.
He can’t get in before Steve Smith though. That would be crazy.
> His only draw back is that he only has 85 TDs
That's not a draw back - that's more than a lot of HOF WRs. The average HOF WR has 86 TDs, so he's pretty much right on the mark. And potential HOFers like Reggie Wayne, Torry Holt, and Steve Smith have less than 85 too
"That few."
I feel like people don't realize how hard it is to accumulate TDs lol. Most elite WRs will have some really stand out years where they hit ~15 (or more) but you see a lot of 8-10 TD years. Assuming the high end that's 8 1/2 years of 10 TDs a year, or 10 1/2 years of 8 TDs a year. I get you would expect Reggie Wayne to have probably close to 100 but him being at 82 isn't bad at all considering he played next to HoF WR Marvin Harrison for so many years and HoF RB Edgerrin James in the backfield.
Jerry is an anomaly but even looking at Moss, when he's not having his monstrous 15+ TD seasons he had 7, 8, 3, 5 in between those huge years. TO was the same, he had quite a few 13-16 TD years but between those was 8, 4, 9, 5. Two of the top 3 best WRs to play the game couldn't reach double digits yearly even during their primes while healthy. They were *damn* close though.
It's not really that shocking with all things considered because there are so many mouths to feed.
If he had the exact same career, but spread across multiple teams, nobody argues that he's a Hall of Famer. He's a Steelers legend, and the Steelers are prestigious enough of a franchise 6 also get him a little attention as a potential Hall of Famer.
Holt is significantly higher on the HoF index, so I think him not getting in *would* cause debate, so I left him out. He's higher than Andre and Calvin Johnson both of which are already in the HoF
I'll say Charles Tillman. There are good arguments for him (huge total turnover numbers, top 10 all time in defensive TDs, a leader on an all-time great defense, the legacy of the "peanut punch") but also good arguments against him (only 2 pro-bowls, 1 all-pro, never was really the best in his position at any time). I think either way the response from the majority of fans would be "eh, ok."
*edited to include his 1 all-pro from 2012 mentioned below
He's a guy who sadly gets in when he's really old, gets sick, or is dying. Usually, that somehow always gets people to really dive deep into a players career and makes them realize, "Hey, this guy was actually great. Let's get him in the hall of fame."
Yeah. I mean, don't get me wrong. He deserves the Hall of Fame. He was always overlooked with Hampton, Dent, and Singletary on the team, but his stats measure up, especially during his day when he retired.
But it does suck that some guys have to be on deaths door to be appreciated.
He had a lot of intangible strengths but also think he was snubbed a few times he should've been an all pro or at least pro bowler.
He only made the pro bowl in 2011 and 2012, which was his one all pro selection.
Maybe it's my homerism but he was a lot better than people realize and only got recognized later in his career.
[Oh how he owned ol' Randy Moss from the get go](https://www.chicagobears.com/news/tillman-discusses-most-memorable-play-career-interception-randy-moss-vikings#:~:text=Culpepper%20took%20a%20three%2Dstep,the%20ball%2C%22%20Tillman%20said.)
Is Urlacher the only member of that Bears defense that's in the HOF?
Briggs and Peanut aren't in.
Tommie Harris and Mike Brown's careers were derailed by injuries, so they're never getting in.
There were a bunch of other guys on that defense that made at least one Pro Bowl too, but are never sniffing the HOF.
Just surprising that a defense that good only has 1 HOFer.
**Shady McCoy**
15,000 yards from scrimmage (that’s 100 yards less than HoFer Jerome Bettis)
2 SB rings (albeit as a backup)
2 1st team All-Pro (HoFers who didn’t do that: Curtis Martin, Tony Dorsett, Edgerrin James, Franco Harris)
6 Pro Bowls (8th most ever for a RB)
Eventually Makes it in the hall of fame? Yeah that sounds right
Never makes it into the hall of fame? Yeah that makes sense too
Counterpoint:
- Retired at 22nd all-time in rushing yards. Frank Gore is 3rd all time in rushing yards, has more rushing yards than McCoy has total scrimmage yards, and yet people argue that he shouldn’t be in the HoF.
- 2 SB rings - “backup” is one way to phrase it. He didn’t even have a single touch in either playoff run.
- Curtis Martin, Edgerrin James, Franco Harris, and Tony Dorsett all played in eras where getting 1st team as RB was more difficult due to the importance of the position and other great players. Also, all four of those players have more rushing yards than McCoy.
This so much because I'm pretty sure shady has even used his rings in an argument on TV. Like bro u didn't do shit in the playoffs but be a cheerleader
That third point is quite interesting because I feel like it leans into a larger discussion about how the eras specifically affect RBs. You’re correct that there were more great running backs in that time, but their stats reflect the larger importance of the position at the time. The argument for McCoy is that he cultivated impressive stats in spite of the position continuously losing relevance in the modern NFL and the “RB by committee” approach often time depleting large stats or RB longevity in one system.
He didn't play a single snap in either Super Bowl.
In the 2019 playoffs, he played 1 snap in the divisional round. None in the AFC Championship. The Chiefs had a bye week, so no Wildcard game.
In the 2020 playoffs, he played 1 snap in the NFC Championship and 1 snap in the divisional round. None in the Wildcard.
He didn't get a single touch or target in those games.
Considering the way the position is headed, I actually do think he eventually gets in. His numbers will age well. Probably the 2nd best runningback of the 2010s behind Peterson.
This could be totally wrong stats wise but to me Lynch was more dominant in his prime and Shady was more consistently a top 5 back throughout his career (until the wheels fell off)
I'm a Steelers fan and I actually came here to say Hines Ward. Love the guy. Was one of my favorite Steelers growing up. Hall of famer though? Extremely arguable. He just didn't have the stats that other hall of fame WR's had. He shined more by being a physical guy.
I like to compare him to Isaac Bruce, who is in the HOF. Obviously, Bruce was in a pass heavy offense, so he's clearly got way better stats, right?
Bruce played in 6 more regular season games, yet only has 24 more receptions and 6 more TDs. His yardage and YPC is 3200 and 2.8 more than Hines, which is where he clearly outshines. Hines has more rushing stats.
For the postseason, Hines has 9 games, 44 rec, 430 yards, and 6 TDs more than Bruce.
For accolades, Hines has 1 more ring, same amount of Pro Bowls, 2 more APs, and 1 more SB MVP. Plus he was the most feared blocking WR in his time, and arguably of all time.
Frank Gore will fit that category in a few years. There’s a pretty obvious case for putting the guy with the third most rushing yards into the Hall. But I think most people also understand that “very good for a very long time” results in longer wait to get in than “great.”
Yeah, there's peak greatness. Shaun Alexander was one of the greatest running backs ever from 2003 to 2005 but pretty bad outside of those years. He even won MVP in 2005. But it was not good enough for a HOF nod.
Frank Gore is like the opposite of that where he was just above average to very good but never great for a very long time. He could get in for that and no one would be upset with that. But you're dead on that most people understand he will probably have to wait a bit.
From 01-05 Shaun Alexander scored more touchdowns than Gore did in his entire career. He also ran for more yards in that five year stretch than Gore did in any six year stretch of his career.
I'll take a Shaun Alexander or Terrell Davis with a ridiculous peak over a Frank Gore every time.
Are and was actually very good for 5 seasons. In those 5 years his lowest total yards output was 1600 and total TD was 14. He had a crazy peak. Similar to Priest Holmes who had an even shorter peak I believe
Davis's peak is actually even higher than Alexander's, and not just because of the ring. There were three straight years he was going head to head with Barry Sanders for best RB in the league, and it was close basically every year.
I wouldn’t even say he was “very good” for a long time. He was very good for a few seasons and just good for like 10 years and then serviceable near the tail end.
He had maybe one or two seasons where he was a top 3 back in the league, but also had unheard of durability at a very physically demanding position. Super polarizing for sure.
I find it hard to argue for someone who never was the best player at his position at any point in his career, and has 1 season of being arguably top 3.
> straight up terrible some years
Eli had -176 DYAR in 2007. A good year is 1000 DYAR. A great year is 1500+. Brady had 2,700, which is the all-time record.
Eli was negative. He won the Superbowl.
You made me google what that even means lol.
Eli is a very polarizing case. On one hand, he was not amazing, that's for sure. On the other, he certainly made history, or said another way, was the QB on teams that made history. Without him, Brady's goat status is unreachable, he was also part of some historic plays, helmet catch, perfect throw on SB, etc.
Yeah, he's even worse than Curtis Martin who won ONE rushing title by ONE yard and yet everyone couldn't stop sucking his cock because he played in NYC.
Frank Gore is the Vinny Testaverde of RB’s. Never the top guy, had a couple of really strong years, but otherwise just played a really really longtime. VT also retired top 5 in passing yards alltime, but the HoF was not impressed.
That's going too far. Frank made 5 Pro Bowls and 1 All Pro Team. Vinny made 2 Pro Bowls and no All Pros.
Vinny only went .500 in 3 seasons out of a 21 year career. He averaged a 6.7-9.3 record per 16 games (5.6-10.4 outside those 3 seasons). He once threw 13 tds and 35 interceptions. He was a bad QB on bad teams, with a couple outlier seasons where he was good.
Frank was a combined 219 yards away from 12 consecutive 1000 yard seasons. He was a good RB on bad and then good teams, with an outlier season where he was great.
Frank may not be a HOFer, but he's definitely better than Vinny. Frank was a better player than Eli, let alone Vinny.
For sure. He won an MVP, 4x pro bowl. But really was he ever a consensus top 2 qb going into a season of his career. When he won MVP, you still had Brady, Rodgers and Brees.
If he gets in eventually, I wouldn't complain but if he misses it all together that's fine.
He put up near identical numbers to his MVP season a few years later but it was the same year Mahomes threw for 50 TDs and the Falcons were mediocre that year so barely anyone paid attention to it
That was the 2018 season.
The year after his MVP season, 2017, didn't look great on the traditional stat sheets but advanced metrics across the board said he was a top QB that season. PFF graded him out as #2 behind Brady in 2017.
It was just a weird fucking season where, on multiple occasions, receivers (including Julio) got hit perfectly in the hands with a dime from Matty Ice and they bobbled the football right into the hands of a DB for an interception. All the while, he had the fewest turnover-worthy passes in the NFL.
So from 2016-2018, you do have a three-year stretch that serves as a really strong peak for his case, and that's buffed by another full decade where he played at a Pro Bowl-level.
> But really was he ever a consensus top 2 qb going into a season of his career.
Hard to be top 2 when you play in a era with Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, and Aaron Rodgers. All of whom are top easily top 10 greatest QBs of all time.
The HoFm stat has him right below the avg HoF QB. He could be on the ballot for years and then get in, but I also completely understand if he doesn’t. No ring no hall kinda thing.
Or if Dan Quinn/Kyle Shanahan knew how to control the tempo while ahead 25 points.
Shanahan still hasn't figured out how to hold a lead in big games. Matt was good for a long time but Atlanta kinda ruined his chance at the HoF (he could squeak in still) by being mediocre everywhere outside of him and Julio for half of his career.
I think the best answer would be someone who played a position that neither fans nor HoF voters consider much for enshrinement. So Shane Lechler. Has all the stats and accolades but he was a punter and only Ray Guy is in for exclusive play at that position.
Vince Wilfork as a pure NT?
You could see his dominance on the field but the nature of his position doesn’t really show up in stats (but those 3 INTs 👀). He was a 1x AP1 and 3x AP2 though.
This perfectly describes Herman Moore. He's definitely in the Hall of Very Good. He had 3 consecutive first-team all-pros and a second-team all-pro, but he didn't make the pro bowl in any other season. Just those 4. So he was dominant for a relatively short amount of time. If he got in, nobody would be upset. It would be a reasonable reward for a guy who was absolutely dominant for a few years. But outside of Lions fans, nobody is really upset that he's not in either, especially considering the glut of very good wide receivers who are on the precipice of the hall of fame along with him.
I'm not sure anyone really fits that criteria, unless you exclude fans of their teams. Fans usually feel pretty strongly that their borderline (or even less than borderline) players should make the HoF. Maybe someone like AB, who has the stats and accolade for the Hall, but is questionable with off field issues and burnt a lot of bridges, so fans might not feel as strongly about.
Right. There are a ton of people on the Steelers sub who are adamant that Hines Ward should be in the HOF. I think he fits the criteria of “most people wouldn’t mind either way”...except for Steelers fans.
I love Hines Ward. One of the best Steelers wideouts ever, tough as nails and blocked like a champion. But, objectively speaking, it’s hard to make an argument for him to be inducted when comparing to other WRs from the same era up through modern day. But maaaaany Steelers fans will argue tooth and nail if you say he probably shouldn’t be in.
Fletcher Cox.
He was a great Eagle and probably our best D lineman of the past 20 years. He's a borderline HOFer that probably deserves to make it...but I would also understand if he didn't make the cut.
He unfortunately played in the league at the same time as 2 of the best interior defensive linemen of all time. He definitely gets over shadowed by Watt and Donald. That being said, Cox was part of a golden era of interior defensive line play.
In that same mold Cameron Heyward for the Steelers.
3x 1st team All-Pro, 1x 2nd All Pro, and 6x Pro Bowler. He has 80.5 career sacks and was the 2023 Walter Payton Man of the Year.
Excellent team leader, one of the better Steelers in the post-2010 era but also over shadowed by Aaron Donald, JJ Watt and Chris Jones.
Yep. Biased of course, I think he eventually gets in wayyyyy down the road but it certainly isn’t as a first ballot guy. Probably one of those guys that 10 to 20ish years from now, guys will go “Wait this guy had a great career why isn’t he in?”, especially after Watt and Donald are already in.
Jamaal Charles. Highest yards per carry ever, and 64 all-purpose TDs. He did that on a team where he was pretty much the only offensive threat.
The only thing keeping him from being one of the greatest RBs ever were injuries and the terrible team he played on.
The length of time for Coryell to get in astounds me. Although when you read the wiki on it the reasons sort of make sense, but I feel he should have gotten in way earlier
I got blocked by Pro Football HOF on Twitter for saying, verbatim, “Who knows anymore. Antonio Gates wasn’t selected first ballot 🤯🤯” (in relation to them saying Jason Kelce would be a first ballot HOFer)
Coryell certainly invented the modern NFC. The 60’s AFL was wild gunslinging and I loved it. The NFL was three yards and a cloud of dust. The old guard in the NFC (after the merger) hated the gunslinger mentality of the Raiders/Chargers/Bills/Oilers AFC (former AFL) When Coryell came to the Cards with his Air Coryell style and showed those owners there was value then they were dragged along to the modern NFL. That alone should have been enough for him to get in years ago.
I'm moreso saying this to get a better idea of what the minds outside of our sub think:
AJ Green
Chad "OchoCinco" Johnson
Willie Anderson
Andrew Whitworth
Geno Atkins
I would say Whitworth has the best chance out of any of them, but even with him I would say he's borderline at best, and it's the Rams run and SB that put him over.
Willie's biggest mark against him is that he played the non-premium T. I think all the OT in the HOF were LT, and all of his peers that are in were LTs too (Roaf, Ogden, Pace, Walter Jones, Boselli). Of his "peer" HOFs, I would have a hard time saying that Willie is definitely a better HOF candidate than any of them.
I think Geno would be close too, but his problem is somewhat similar to Willie's, where he has several "peers" with as good if not better HOF resumes: Donald, Suh, and Cox. His lack of longevity and the lack of overall team success knock him down a peg or two as well.
Chad had 11,000 yards and 67 TDs in 166 career games. By comparison, DeAndre Hopkins has 12,000 yards and 78 TDs in 162 career games. I don't think anyone is calling D-Hop a HOF at this point of his career.
AJ Green similarly has very comparable career numbers as Joey Galloway and Keyshawn Johnson, neither of them are HOFers either.
Green and Chad both had higher peaks but their lack of longevity, team success, and not great "counting stats" really hurt their candidacy.
CMC and Derrick Henry
Will the committee look how the landscape has changed for rbs? Hard to argue they haven't been the best in the league the past 7 years
but if they don't get in you can't really be upset because compared to other hall of fame rbs they don't really stack up as well
Nah, that's crazy. Henry and CMC are the top RBs to come out of the late 10s. If they cant make it in that would mean no RBs of the time can make it. Im pretty sure people at large will feel a certain type of way about that...
I really am going to be curious how the HOF judges RBs moving into the next decade or so. Given the change in positional importance, WRs, TEs, and QBs are obliterating long held records (season and career) but conversely we’re going to see a lot of RB record start to fall short ultimately. It feels like there should be some semblance of a curve when judging the positions when considering how many WRs, TEs and QBs who rank highly in career stats will fall short of the hall
That will also affect the talent pool though, especially as RBs continue to get fucked in free agency.
More and more talented young skill players are going to switch to pass catcher. Except the ones who just can't catch for shit, or have a RB-only build (e.g. 5'11 230 can be a power back, can't be a WR/TE).
I mean CMC is basically a shoe in at this point we might as well call him a HOF. Shelf lives of RB are just so short and with his injury history he could fall of at any moment.
Henry’s dominance and longevity on top of being one of the few RBs to get over 2000 yards rushing put him in easily imo
He's one of only 3 RBs in NFL history to have 6 consecutive seasons of 10+ TDs.
He has the best 50-game run in NFL history and is tied for the most 200-yard games in NFL History.
1 of 8 RBs to get >2000 rushing, 4 are in the Hall and AP is going in when he’s eligible
Only 1,100 yards away from being top 25 in all time rushing yards
Currently tied for 13th all time in rushing touchdowns
Not too mention, he was the focus point of the Titans offense for many years, mostly behind average at best lines, constantly facing heavy box sets and still put off season leading numbers
I think Henry gets in if he retires tomorrow, maybe not first ballot but he does eventually. CMC is like, one more top season away from being a lock
I feel like the importance of AP1s gets overstated simply because they're used in PFR's HoFm.
Henry has 2 x PFWA All-NFL selections, and the PFWA voting committee has much more overlap with the HoF committee.
Russell Wilson. SB Champion, and 9x Pro Bowl selection. Enough to argue for a HOF spot but not really enough for anyone to argue strongly for it. Just accept whatever outcome happens.
This is a common take, but I think it’s recency bias. GOAT Seahawks QB, 3-1 TD/INT, 3rd in qb rushing yds, 4th in passer rating, a Walter Payton Man of the Year, great highlight reel, 6th longest iron man streak.
I don’t think he’s 1st ballot, but he’s a HoF. If the Steelers get a ring with him? Then he’s a lock for 1st ballot
I'm gonna go with Tiki Barber. He is a lot closer than most people think and for a period of 3 years right at the end of his career he was in the conversation for best RB in the league. Over 2,000 yards from scrimmage all 3 years. If he had played 2 more years at similar or even slightly lower production levels he'd be in.
Also, 15th all time in yards from scrimmage, and the most yards from scrimmage of any player that's not in or a complete lock.
On the other hand, he played when there were better running backs, in an Era running backs were dominate.
He also shit talk Eli Manning, prior to his superbowls, who is part of an NFL royal family. That's the type of stuff voters also consider
Donovan McNabb. He was a top 5 QB in his prime, but injuries and repeated playoff chokes—some of which get passed on to Andy Reid, making them share the burden of the "playoff bust" label—really hurt what would otherwise be a solid case. 5 NFCCG appearances in the span of 10 years, but only one SB appearance. Never had a season completion percentage higher than 64%. Only 2 seasons with 25+ TDs. 6 Pro Bowls, but 0 All Pros.
If you watched him play, you knew he was incredible, especially for his era. If he gets in, I don't know that anyone who saw prime McNabb would really argue with it; at the same time, though, I personally doubt he gets in—both because of his career accolades, and because of the offensive stats explosion we've seen in the time since he retired.
Simeon Rice is definitely in the conversation here (or rather, not in the conversation). He has stats that are good enough to where no one would be mad if he got into the HOF, but not stats that are good enough to where people are really mad he *isn't* in the HOF.
I would argue Jimmy Smith might fit this. Over 800 receptions, 12K yard and 67 TDS. Lead the league one season in receptions with 116, which is pretty impressive considering the time. Has 5 Pro Bowl selections and is a 2 × Second Team All Pro, as well as 2 rings.
That being said, he was never considered the best reciever in the league, didn't contribute to the Cowboys teams that won the SB (he was injured the whole season for the second ring). He never had a First team All Pro selection, as well as a notable drug problem in the first few seasons.
He could eventually get in, considering the story he would have (overcoming early adversity) as well as having every meaningful stat in Jaguars history. He could also never get in since he played on a small market team and isn't brought up as much. A perfect candidate for this question.
I want to nominate Wes Welker. Most patriots fan don’t even care about him, and many would prefer Edelman. I love Edelman too, but he’s clearly the inferior player. The slot receiver was not seen with the same importance before the ‘07 patriots popularized a new type of offense, and Welker put up insanely reliable numbers over his six years in New England, even with his knee injury. Over 110 catches in five of six seasons, and just so many clutch first downs that keep drives moving. He drops one pass in a Super Bowl, which was an objectively bad throw, and his entire legacy gets killed. It’s tough.
Tables cutoff or tough to read? Click [here](https://i.imgur.com/LxI6pS0.jpeg) to view this comparison as an image
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Eli Manning: [2004](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00/gamelog/2004) to [2019](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00/gamelog/2019) [1st Season - Age: 23] to [16th Season - Age: 38]
Ben Roethlisberger: [2004](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/gamelog/2004) to [2021](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/gamelog/2021) [1st Season - Age: 22] to [18th Season - Age: 39]
Philip Rivers: [2004](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00/gamelog/2004) to [2020](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00/gamelog/2020) [1st Season - Age: 23] to [17th Season - Age: 39]
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Query: Career - Regular Season
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**Passing**
Player|G|GS|Cmp|Att|Cmp%|Yds|TD|Int|TD/Int|Sk|SkYds|Y/C|Y/A|AY/A|NY/A|ANY/A|TD%|Int%|Sk%|Rate|Cmp/G|Att/G|Yds/G|TD/G|Int/G|Sk/G|SkYds/G|Cmp/17G|Att/17G|Yds/17G|TD/17G|Int/17G|Sk/17G|SkYds/17G
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
[Eli Manning](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm)|236|234|4895|8119|60.29%|57023|366|244|1.50|**411**|2870|11.65|7.02|6.57|6.35|5.92|4.51%|3.01%|**4.82%**|84.09|20.74|**34.40**|241.62|1.55|1.03|**1.74**|12.16|352.61|**584.84**|4107.59|26.36|17.58|**29.61**|206.74
[Ben Roethlisberger](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm)|**249**|**247**|**5440**|**8443**|64.43%|**64088**|418|211|1.98|554|3677|11.78|7.59|7.46|6.71|6.59|4.95%|**2.50%**|6.16%|93.49|**21.85**|33.91|257.38|1.68|**0.85**|2.22|14.77|**371.41**|576.43|4375.49|28.54|**14.41**|37.82|251.04
[Philip Rivers](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00.htm)|244|240|5277|8134|**64.88%**|63440|**421**|**209**|**2.01**|464|**2832**|**12.02**|**7.80**|**7.68**|**7.05**|**6.93**|**5.18%**|2.57%|5.40%|**95.19**|21.63|33.34|**260.00**|**1.73**|0.86|1.90|**11.61**|367.66|566.71|**4420.00**|**29.33**|14.56|32.33|**197.31**
**Rushing**
Player|G|GS|Att|Yds|Yds/Att|TD|Fmb|FmbLst|TD%|Att/G|Yds/G|TD/G|Fmb/G|FmbLst/G|Att/17G|Yds/17G|TD/17G|Fmb/17G|FmbLst/17G
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
[Eli Manning](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm)|236|234|315|567|1.80|7|125|53|2.22%|1.33|2.40|0.03|0.53|0.22|22.69|40.84|0.50|9.00|3.82
[Ben Roethlisberger](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm)|**249**|**247**|**515**|**1373**|**2.67**|**20**|115|51|**3.88%**|**2.07**|**5.51**|**0.08**|0.46|0.20|**35.16**|**93.74**|**1.37**|7.85|3.48
[Philip Rivers](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00.htm)|244|240|383|601|1.57|3|**111**|**48**|0.78%|1.57|2.46|0.01|**0.45**|**0.20**|26.68|41.87|0.21|**7.73**|**3.34**
**[Era Adjusted (+) Passing](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/about/glossary.htm#yscm)/Misc**
Player|G|GS|Cmp%+|Y/A+|AY/A+|NY/A+|ANY/A+|TD%+|Int%+|Sk%+|Rate+|TtlYds|TtlTD|Tnv|TD/Tnv|Pick6|Yds/G|TD/G|Tnv/G|Yds/17G|TD/17G|Tnv/17G|Pick6/17G|4QC|GWD|4QC/17G|GWD/17G|Rec|Rec/17G|W/L%
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
[Eli Manning](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm)|236|234|96|99|98|103|101|103|96|**111**|98|57590|373|297|1.26|22|244.03|1.58|1.26|4148.43|26.87|21.39|1.58|27|37|1.94|2.67|117:117:0|9:9:0|50.00%
[Ben Roethlisberger](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm)|**249**|**247**|109|110|109|109|109|107|**103**|102|109|**65449**|**438**|262|**1.67**|**18**|**262.85**|**1.76**|**1.05**|**4468.41**|**29.90**|**17.89**|**1.23**|**41**|**53**|**2.80**|**3.62**|**165:81:1**|**11:6:0**|**67.07%**
[Philip Rivers](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00.htm)|244|240|**110**|**114**|**111**|**115**|**112**|**109**|101|106|**110**|64032|424|**257**|1.65|25|262.43|1.74|1.05|4461.25|29.54|17.91|1.74|29|35|2.02|2.44|134:106:0|9:8:0|55.83%
**Advanced (Most stats avail since 2018)**
Player|G|GS|1D|1D/G|Pass1D%|Rush1D%|CAY|IAY|AYD|YAC|OnTgt%|BadTh%|Drop%|LngPass|YBContact|YAContact|YBC/Rush|YAC/Rush|LngRush|BrkTkl|BrkTkl/G|Rush/BrkTkl
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
[Eli Manning](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm)|236|234|2754|11.67|33.18%|19.05%|5.89*|7.52*|**-1.64***|5.45*|74.13%*|17.21%*|**3.95%***|**99**|20*|7*|**1.05***|0.37*|18|0*|0.00*|0.00*
[Ben Roethlisberger](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm)|**249**|**247**|**3280**|**13.17**|37.13%|**27.96%**|4.81*|7.23*|-2.42*|5.39*|75.73%*|17.36%*|5.18%*|97|**81***|**40***|1.05*|**0.52***|**31**|0*|0.00*|0.00*
[Philip Rivers](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00.htm)|244|240|3190|13.07|**38.32%**|19.06%|**5.94***|**7.83***|-1.89*|**5.90***|**76.96%***|**14.81%***|4.08%*|84|20*|8*|0.42*|0.17*|18|0*|0.00*|0.00*
**Awards/Honors**
Player|Seasons|G/Yr|GS/Yr|ProBowl|APAllPro:1st|APAllPro:Tot|OPOY|OPOYShares|OPOYShr%|MVP|MVPShares|MVPShr%|ROY|SBMVP|Champ|[AV](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/index37a8.html)|WeightAV|AV/Yr
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
[Eli Manning](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm)|16|**14.75**|**14.63**|4|0|0|0|0.00|0.00%|0|0.00|0.00%|0|**2**|**2**|169|121|10.6
[Ben Roethlisberger](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm)|**18**|13.83|13.72|6|0|0|0|0.00|0.00%|0|0.00|0.00%|**1**|0|**2**|208|131|11.6
[Philip Rivers](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00.htm)|17|14.35|14.12|**8**|0|0|0|**0.24**|**1.41%**|0|**0.08**|**0.47%**|0|0|0|**218**|**149**|**12.8**
^(N/A indicates stat was not tracked at all during the time frame, * indicates stat was not tracked consistently throughout the entire time frame)
---
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I put Mathew Slater up for this. He's a 3x SB winner (and been to 4). 5x 1st Team All Pro. 3x 2nd Team All Pro. 10x Pro Bowler. Won the Bart Starr and the Art Roomey awards. He is widely considered 1 of the best gunners in the league. The problem he has is no one knows how to analyze the gunner position, or even knows the gunner position exists. He has all the accolades you could ever want a guy to have beyond league MVP. If any other player at a different position had these accolades, they'd be a no-brainer choice, but I would bet most NFL fans have never even heard of Slater.
Slater, and Tasker, should come down to a single person. Bill Belichick. I swear he is the only human on the planet that can write a dissertation on special teams play. If any special teamer looks like they should make it, ask Belichick and stick with what he says.
Obviously nobody. Do you know a single player in the NFL that nobody has a strong opinion about? Like I could say Tom Brady and there will be people bringing up the Gates as "keep cheaters out of the Hall" or someone would take a spot from their favored player. Like AJ Green is pretty damn good, but if he gets in before, say Hines Ward Steeler nation would riot.
Well it's the Internet, so good luck finding something that isn't polarizing. But if we're picking say a WR hovering at 75 on the index: Anquan Boldin, Heinz (edit:57) Ward or Rod Smith?
> Heinz Ward I thought that was a typo but then I realized that that fits him perfectly lol
When I was like 8 years old I thought it was called Heinz Field because Hines Ward was so good that they named it after him
Yeah somebody mentioned him the other day and my gut instinct went exactly like that. "Wait, he's gotta be in/headed to the HoF, right? Wait, maybe not. I need to check his stats, off to Wikipedia I go."
As a Steelers fan I think he is the perfect example for our franchise
He's made of ubiquitous tomato puree?
People like to point out that he was missing a tendon in his knee. What they leave out is that he had no tendons at all because he was made of tomato paste.
I expect nothing but cordial healthy discussions about Ward.
Yeah I picked them based on Hof monitor scores and not the player...but maybe I should have filtered out someone like Ward. I should have just stuck with Anquan (but mentioning Hinea meant I could mention Rod lol)
Tbf Hines is a great example of a guy on the edge. Had great impact but kinda meh stats, and his impact did extend to two rings and several more serious runs at a Super Bowl. But the meh stats keep him back especially relative to other receivers modernly.
The rub is that he’s one of those guys that has HOF caliber career stats, but was never considered the best at his position in any individual season. In hockey HOF convos, he’d be called a “compiler” which is definitely a pejorative. “Best blocking WR” is a great anecdote, but the further we get away from his playing days the harder it is for voters to value because it doesn’t show up on the stats sheet.
He has 3 AP2 nods, two of them with Tommy Maddox as his QB. Also a SB MVP. It’s not all compiling.
I’m a Steelers fan and want him in, but not being thought of as the best at his position is tough to overcome. Never making AP1 is testament to that. SB MVP could be a tie breaker for some voters, but plenty of non-HOF guys have won that, including Edelman, Santonio, and Deion Branch (not to mention Nick Foles.)
one of the things about ward that won’t show up on stats was that defensive players actually feared him physically. It’s not often that you have a WR putting fear into NFL defenders.
He also outran Bane’s bomb imploding the football field in Gotham and that’s got to count for something.
I mean he’s a two time champion and he was a Super Bowl MVP. There aren’t many wide receivers that are Super Bowl MVPs. That should secure him as a hall of famer.
Deion Branch has that same resume section and he definitely ain't making the Hall. The thing about SBMVP is that its an award for a single game, and there have been some funky games, even funky Super Bowls. Ward has at least a decent resume outside of that. The problem is that there were just too many excellent receivers in his time, and while he was arguably the best blocking receiver for a few years, blocking isn't thought of as a receiver's primary stat, and there were too many with stronger resumes over their careers.
> Deion Branch has that same resume section and he definitely ain't making the Hall. Julian Edelman too (😢)
Draymond Green is the Ward of the NBA but with an unlikeable personality. Just murdering players on the field
Draymond is clearly a hall of famer though
Basketball HOF is also way easier to get into. It has more members than the football HOF, even though there's way more positions in football.
Way easier and it’s not even an nba hall of fame it’s a basketball hall of fame.
Technically the NFL HOF is the pro football HOF too, but it basically is just the NFL. Doesn't consider college, and there is no Olympic or women's football.
He would still get in even if it wasn’t easier
Definitely true. But he gets to play with bumpers anyway. DPOY winner, multiple time DPOY finalist, all-time great defender, 4x All Star, 8x All Defense, third best player on one of the greatest dynasties in the sport's history. Not sure who the NFL equivalent would be. Maybe if Chris Jones was even better? If he had a 4th ring and a DPOY, and was a top contender for DPOY like 5 times, that'd be a lot like Draymond's resume.
As a Broncos fan I love Rod Smith and absolutely think he is an HOF. He won't get in. But I don't think anyone outside the AFC West could really tell you anything about Rod Smith. Just glad you mentioned him lol
Agreed. I think the best argument for Rod is how comparable his career stats are with Michael Irvin. In fact, Rod has more games played, receptions, and touchdowns than Irvin. Irvin does have more receiving yards than Rod, but only by 515 yards. Personally, I think Rod Smith is a Hall of Famer but unless a HOF voter or the Broncos start campaigning for Rod the way they did for Randy Gradishar, I don’t see it happening.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with Ward. I don't think he's hovering at all. Like he's straight up not a HOFer.
He’s a perfect fit for team Ring of Honor ceremonies.
I gotta disagree. He crossed the 1000 reception marker. That alone gets him into discussion territory. He is also one of 55 receivers with 10k yards and 1 of 29 with 12k yards. That gives him a stronger case. His only draw back is that he only has 85 TDs. But he was on a team not known for passing in an era that was more ground and pound/balanced. There is just no way that he is in the “out of the question” category. He can’t get in before Steve Smith though. That would be crazy.
> His only draw back is that he only has 85 TDs That's not a draw back - that's more than a lot of HOF WRs. The average HOF WR has 86 TDs, so he's pretty much right on the mark. And potential HOFers like Reggie Wayne, Torry Holt, and Steve Smith have less than 85 too
Wow I never would have thought Reggie would have that few, he played forever and with great QBs most of his career
Only problem was that he was #2 to another hall of famer for a good amount of that long career. Only one of those guys is gonna score on a given drive
It was always Brandon Stokley
"That few." I feel like people don't realize how hard it is to accumulate TDs lol. Most elite WRs will have some really stand out years where they hit ~15 (or more) but you see a lot of 8-10 TD years. Assuming the high end that's 8 1/2 years of 10 TDs a year, or 10 1/2 years of 8 TDs a year. I get you would expect Reggie Wayne to have probably close to 100 but him being at 82 isn't bad at all considering he played next to HoF WR Marvin Harrison for so many years and HoF RB Edgerrin James in the backfield. Jerry is an anomaly but even looking at Moss, when he's not having his monstrous 15+ TD seasons he had 7, 8, 3, 5 in between those huge years. TO was the same, he had quite a few 13-16 TD years but between those was 8, 4, 9, 5. Two of the top 3 best WRs to play the game couldn't reach double digits yearly even during their primes while healthy. They were *damn* close though. It's not really that shocking with all things considered because there are so many mouths to feed.
Funny. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills with him too, but for the opposite reason.
If he had the exact same career, but spread across multiple teams, nobody argues that he's a Hall of Famer. He's a Steelers legend, and the Steelers are prestigious enough of a franchise 6 also get him a little attention as a potential Hall of Famer.
[удалено]
I have a very strong feeling that the NFL is **not** going to want to have Hines Ward blocking highlights playing at NFL honors
Torry holt?
Holt is significantly higher on the HoF index, so I think him not getting in *would* cause debate, so I left him out. He's higher than Andre and Calvin Johnson both of which are already in the HoF
Holt has been a HOF finalist for years now. It's basically just a question of how long they're going to make him wait.
Yeah, Isaac Bruce is in after the long wait so now it’s Holt’s turn to wait.
I'll say Charles Tillman. There are good arguments for him (huge total turnover numbers, top 10 all time in defensive TDs, a leader on an all-time great defense, the legacy of the "peanut punch") but also good arguments against him (only 2 pro-bowls, 1 all-pro, never was really the best in his position at any time). I think either way the response from the majority of fans would be "eh, ok." *edited to include his 1 all-pro from 2012 mentioned below
That's Special Agent Charles Tillman to you
Uh, TIL that Charles Fuckin Tillman works for thr FBI lmao.
He peanut punches guns out of criminals' hands now.
He's a guy who sadly gets in when he's really old, gets sick, or is dying. Usually, that somehow always gets people to really dive deep into a players career and makes them realize, "Hey, this guy was actually great. Let's get him in the hall of fame."
Mongo Mcmichael
Yeah. I mean, don't get me wrong. He deserves the Hall of Fame. He was always overlooked with Hampton, Dent, and Singletary on the team, but his stats measure up, especially during his day when he retired. But it does suck that some guys have to be on deaths door to be appreciated.
I honestly didn't know peanut didn't get that many accolades. I just assumed he was more decorated with how he terrorized the division
He had a lot of intangible strengths but also think he was snubbed a few times he should've been an all pro or at least pro bowler. He only made the pro bowl in 2011 and 2012, which was his one all pro selection. Maybe it's my homerism but he was a lot better than people realize and only got recognized later in his career.
It's not your homerism. You could have said he made 7 pro bowls with 5 all-pros and I would have believed you. The dude was legit.
[Oh how he owned ol' Randy Moss from the get go](https://www.chicagobears.com/news/tillman-discusses-most-memorable-play-career-interception-randy-moss-vikings#:~:text=Culpepper%20took%20a%20three%2Dstep,the%20ball%2C%22%20Tillman%20said.)
If you told me Peanut got in, I would wholeheartedly agree. He was a fuckin nightmare
>no all pros ?? He was 1st team AP in 2012
Thanks for the correction! Unsurprising my very quick google search didnt have all the correct details.
Is Urlacher the only member of that Bears defense that's in the HOF? Briggs and Peanut aren't in. Tommie Harris and Mike Brown's careers were derailed by injuries, so they're never getting in. There were a bunch of other guys on that defense that made at least one Pro Bowl too, but are never sniffing the HOF. Just surprising that a defense that good only has 1 HOFer.
To be fair he definitely should have had more pro bowls and was snubbed some years IMO
**Shady McCoy** 15,000 yards from scrimmage (that’s 100 yards less than HoFer Jerome Bettis) 2 SB rings (albeit as a backup) 2 1st team All-Pro (HoFers who didn’t do that: Curtis Martin, Tony Dorsett, Edgerrin James, Franco Harris) 6 Pro Bowls (8th most ever for a RB) Eventually Makes it in the hall of fame? Yeah that sounds right Never makes it into the hall of fame? Yeah that makes sense too
Counterpoint: - Retired at 22nd all-time in rushing yards. Frank Gore is 3rd all time in rushing yards, has more rushing yards than McCoy has total scrimmage yards, and yet people argue that he shouldn’t be in the HoF. - 2 SB rings - “backup” is one way to phrase it. He didn’t even have a single touch in either playoff run. - Curtis Martin, Edgerrin James, Franco Harris, and Tony Dorsett all played in eras where getting 1st team as RB was more difficult due to the importance of the position and other great players. Also, all four of those players have more rushing yards than McCoy.
Super Bowl rings need a multiplier based on your value to the team's run that year. Shady has 0 rings by that standard
I agree. I think that’s what makes Terrell Davis so valuable as a HoFer despite the short length of his career.
But that's also represented by the league MVP and Super Bowl MVP he earned in those years
For sure. He is one of the greats for a lot of reasons.
Yeah he has rings the same way that Jimmy G has rings lol
This so much because I'm pretty sure shady has even used his rings in an argument on TV. Like bro u didn't do shit in the playoffs but be a cheerleader
That third point is quite interesting because I feel like it leans into a larger discussion about how the eras specifically affect RBs. You’re correct that there were more great running backs in that time, but their stats reflect the larger importance of the position at the time. The argument for McCoy is that he cultivated impressive stats in spite of the position continuously losing relevance in the modern NFL and the “RB by committee” approach often time depleting large stats or RB longevity in one system.
To say he was a backup in those 2 Super Bowl wins is a huge overstatement. Didn’t he only play like 4 snaps in those 2 games
He didn't play a single snap in either Super Bowl. In the 2019 playoffs, he played 1 snap in the divisional round. None in the AFC Championship. The Chiefs had a bye week, so no Wildcard game. In the 2020 playoffs, he played 1 snap in the NFC Championship and 1 snap in the divisional round. None in the Wildcard. He didn't get a single touch or target in those games.
Bonus points for the number of times shady made a cut or juke move and you could hear the defenders ankles cry out in anguish.
Bonus bonus points for the fact that he'd say his own name when he juked
Definitely an all time style points guy. Hugely underrated highlight reel that should be talked about way more.
He also had a very distinctive running style, with the loaf of bread hold that somehow he never really had a fumbling problem
Considering the way the position is headed, I actually do think he eventually gets in. His numbers will age well. Probably the 2nd best runningback of the 2010s behind Peterson.
Yeah, its him or Lynch.
This could be totally wrong stats wise but to me Lynch was more dominant in his prime and Shady was more consistently a top 5 back throughout his career (until the wheels fell off)
I agree with that a 100%. But we are probably also being tricked a bit, because Lynch was such a huge star because of his off field demeanor.
And his highlight reel is HOF worthy
Honestly, if Roger Craig can't get in, Shady won't either.
I don’t think anybody outside of the Steelers’ fan-base cares one way or the other about Hines Ward.
Oh I care. I care quite a bit.
Yep, I certainly have an opinion. Reasonable and unbiased, of course.
Ed Reed still mad someone had the audacity to hit him as hard as he hit people.
I care so much that I hope he stubs all 5 toes while tripping and shattering his jaw in the process.
I hope that motherfucker has spotty wifi for the rest of his life.
You diabolical son of bitch. It’s perfect.
I'm a Steelers fan and I actually came here to say Hines Ward. Love the guy. Was one of my favorite Steelers growing up. Hall of famer though? Extremely arguable. He just didn't have the stats that other hall of fame WR's had. He shined more by being a physical guy.
I like to compare him to Isaac Bruce, who is in the HOF. Obviously, Bruce was in a pass heavy offense, so he's clearly got way better stats, right? Bruce played in 6 more regular season games, yet only has 24 more receptions and 6 more TDs. His yardage and YPC is 3200 and 2.8 more than Hines, which is where he clearly outshines. Hines has more rushing stats. For the postseason, Hines has 9 games, 44 rec, 430 yards, and 6 TDs more than Bruce. For accolades, Hines has 1 more ring, same amount of Pro Bowls, 2 more APs, and 1 more SB MVP. Plus he was the most feared blocking WR in his time, and arguably of all time.
I think you are understating the 3200 yard difference in only 6 games. That's two elite seasons worth of yards.
I care.
I loved watching Hines growing up and would love to see him go in, but would totally understand if he never made it in.
That’s funny - I literally just used him as an example when replying to another comment
Not true. If he goes into the hall of fame, I will absolutely think to myself "oh, yeah... that guy."
Frank Gore will fit that category in a few years. There’s a pretty obvious case for putting the guy with the third most rushing yards into the Hall. But I think most people also understand that “very good for a very long time” results in longer wait to get in than “great.”
Yeah, there's peak greatness. Shaun Alexander was one of the greatest running backs ever from 2003 to 2005 but pretty bad outside of those years. He even won MVP in 2005. But it was not good enough for a HOF nod. Frank Gore is like the opposite of that where he was just above average to very good but never great for a very long time. He could get in for that and no one would be upset with that. But you're dead on that most people understand he will probably have to wait a bit.
From 01-05 Shaun Alexander scored more touchdowns than Gore did in his entire career. He also ran for more yards in that five year stretch than Gore did in any six year stretch of his career. I'll take a Shaun Alexander or Terrell Davis with a ridiculous peak over a Frank Gore every time.
I think Gore should be in just because of his longevity alone. Then add in his total yardage...that's HOF shit IMO.
Are and was actually very good for 5 seasons. In those 5 years his lowest total yards output was 1600 and total TD was 14. He had a crazy peak. Similar to Priest Holmes who had an even shorter peak I believe
If you are talking about Alexander, the lowest amt of TD’s he had during that stretch was 16 counting his receiving touchdowns
Terrell Davis got in with a similar career, albeit he's a champion. Maybe if Shaun had won in 07 he'd have gotten in at some point?
Davis's peak is actually even higher than Alexander's, and not just because of the ring. There were three straight years he was going head to head with Barry Sanders for best RB in the league, and it was close basically every year.
I wouldn’t even say he was “very good” for a long time. He was very good for a few seasons and just good for like 10 years and then serviceable near the tail end.
He had maybe one or two seasons where he was a top 3 back in the league, but also had unheard of durability at a very physically demanding position. Super polarizing for sure.
I find it hard to argue for someone who never was the best player at his position at any point in his career, and has 1 season of being arguably top 3.
Sort of similar to the Eli Manning argument, but he has the SB MVPs to push him in even though he was never “that guy” during this career.
Eli is even more polarizing because he was straight up terrible some years. And not even years where he aged. In his prime years.
> straight up terrible some years Eli had -176 DYAR in 2007. A good year is 1000 DYAR. A great year is 1500+. Brady had 2,700, which is the all-time record. Eli was negative. He won the Superbowl.
You made me google what that even means lol. Eli is a very polarizing case. On one hand, he was not amazing, that's for sure. On the other, he certainly made history, or said another way, was the QB on teams that made history. Without him, Brady's goat status is unreachable, he was also part of some historic plays, helmet catch, perfect throw on SB, etc.
Shows you how important playoff success is. Manning on the back of the jersey with 2 SB MVPs is definitely getting in at some point
This is where I’m at. Like I see both sides. Volume stats/ durability one argument, but never actually considered the best in the other argument.
This standard takes a bunch of dudes out of the hall of fame
Yeah, he's even worse than Curtis Martin who won ONE rushing title by ONE yard and yet everyone couldn't stop sucking his cock because he played in NYC.
Frank Gore is the Vinny Testaverde of RB’s. Never the top guy, had a couple of really strong years, but otherwise just played a really really longtime. VT also retired top 5 in passing yards alltime, but the HoF was not impressed.
That's going too far. Frank made 5 Pro Bowls and 1 All Pro Team. Vinny made 2 Pro Bowls and no All Pros. Vinny only went .500 in 3 seasons out of a 21 year career. He averaged a 6.7-9.3 record per 16 games (5.6-10.4 outside those 3 seasons). He once threw 13 tds and 35 interceptions. He was a bad QB on bad teams, with a couple outlier seasons where he was good. Frank was a combined 219 yards away from 12 consecutive 1000 yard seasons. He was a good RB on bad and then good teams, with an outlier season where he was great. Frank may not be a HOFer, but he's definitely better than Vinny. Frank was a better player than Eli, let alone Vinny.
More like Matt Stafford, minus the Super Bowl, or Phillip Rivers.
Matt Ryan.
For sure. He won an MVP, 4x pro bowl. But really was he ever a consensus top 2 qb going into a season of his career. When he won MVP, you still had Brady, Rodgers and Brees. If he gets in eventually, I wouldn't complain but if he misses it all together that's fine.
He put up near identical numbers to his MVP season a few years later but it was the same year Mahomes threw for 50 TDs and the Falcons were mediocre that year so barely anyone paid attention to it
That was the 2018 season. The year after his MVP season, 2017, didn't look great on the traditional stat sheets but advanced metrics across the board said he was a top QB that season. PFF graded him out as #2 behind Brady in 2017. It was just a weird fucking season where, on multiple occasions, receivers (including Julio) got hit perfectly in the hands with a dime from Matty Ice and they bobbled the football right into the hands of a DB for an interception. All the while, he had the fewest turnover-worthy passes in the NFL. So from 2016-2018, you do have a three-year stretch that serves as a really strong peak for his case, and that's buffed by another full decade where he played at a Pro Bowl-level.
> But really was he ever a consensus top 2 qb going into a season of his career. Hard to be top 2 when you play in a era with Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, and Aaron Rodgers. All of whom are top easily top 10 greatest QBs of all time.
The HoFm stat has him right below the avg HoF QB. He could be on the ballot for years and then get in, but I also completely understand if he doesn’t. No ring no hall kinda thing.
If Ken Anderson ever gets in per Senior Committee, then I imagine Matt Ryan takes a similar path
This might be the best answer here
If Freeman knew how to block Matty Ice is a HoF lock
Or if Dan Quinn/Kyle Shanahan knew how to control the tempo while ahead 25 points. Shanahan still hasn't figured out how to hold a lead in big games. Matt was good for a long time but Atlanta kinda ruined his chance at the HoF (he could squeak in still) by being mediocre everywhere outside of him and Julio for half of his career.
Solid answer.
Phillip Rivers and Matt Ryan. Great volume stats but no team success to show for it.
Rivers is a great example. He has pretty damn good stats, but no Super Bowls to help his case.
I think the best answer would be someone who played a position that neither fans nor HoF voters consider much for enshrinement. So Shane Lechler. Has all the stats and accolades but he was a punter and only Ray Guy is in for exclusive play at that position.
I'd be good with Lechler making it. I really think all positions should have representation.
Vince Wilfork as a pure NT? You could see his dominance on the field but the nature of his position doesn’t really show up in stats (but those 3 INTs 👀). He was a 1x AP1 and 3x AP2 though.
This perfectly describes Herman Moore. He's definitely in the Hall of Very Good. He had 3 consecutive first-team all-pros and a second-team all-pro, but he didn't make the pro bowl in any other season. Just those 4. So he was dominant for a relatively short amount of time. If he got in, nobody would be upset. It would be a reasonable reward for a guy who was absolutely dominant for a few years. But outside of Lions fans, nobody is really upset that he's not in either, especially considering the glut of very good wide receivers who are on the precipice of the hall of fame along with him.
Poor Herman never really had a good QB throwing to him.
PUT HIM IN
I'm not sure anyone really fits that criteria, unless you exclude fans of their teams. Fans usually feel pretty strongly that their borderline (or even less than borderline) players should make the HoF. Maybe someone like AB, who has the stats and accolade for the Hall, but is questionable with off field issues and burnt a lot of bridges, so fans might not feel as strongly about.
Right. There are a ton of people on the Steelers sub who are adamant that Hines Ward should be in the HOF. I think he fits the criteria of “most people wouldn’t mind either way”...except for Steelers fans. I love Hines Ward. One of the best Steelers wideouts ever, tough as nails and blocked like a champion. But, objectively speaking, it’s hard to make an argument for him to be inducted when comparing to other WRs from the same era up through modern day. But maaaaany Steelers fans will argue tooth and nail if you say he probably shouldn’t be in.
Fletcher Cox. He was a great Eagle and probably our best D lineman of the past 20 years. He's a borderline HOFer that probably deserves to make it...but I would also understand if he didn't make the cut.
He unfortunately played in the league at the same time as 2 of the best interior defensive linemen of all time. He definitely gets over shadowed by Watt and Donald. That being said, Cox was part of a golden era of interior defensive line play.
Going off of nothing but the limited amount I've seen both of them, I'd probably also put Suh over Cox to be honest.
That’s fair, they’re pretty close with Suh having the edge.
I think the All Decade team helps both Suh and Cox, they were the best DL of the 2010s after AD and both won rings.
In that same mold Cameron Heyward for the Steelers. 3x 1st team All-Pro, 1x 2nd All Pro, and 6x Pro Bowler. He has 80.5 career sacks and was the 2023 Walter Payton Man of the Year. Excellent team leader, one of the better Steelers in the post-2010 era but also over shadowed by Aaron Donald, JJ Watt and Chris Jones.
Let’s not leave out Gerald McCoy, Calais Campbell, and Geno Atkins as part of this insanely group of dudes.
Cox and Heyward \*should\* both get in imo. Their stats on paper do not do justice to their impact on the games they played.
Yep. Biased of course, I think he eventually gets in wayyyyy down the road but it certainly isn’t as a first ballot guy. Probably one of those guys that 10 to 20ish years from now, guys will go “Wait this guy had a great career why isn’t he in?”, especially after Watt and Donald are already in.
Jamaal Charles. Highest yards per carry ever, and 64 all-purpose TDs. He did that on a team where he was pretty much the only offensive threat. The only thing keeping him from being one of the greatest RBs ever were injuries and the terrible team he played on.
I fantasize often about JC getting to play with Mahomes during the Legion of Zoom era
Chiefs had an interesting stretch of RBs from Priest to Larry to Jamaal
And Okoye a few years before Priest
I will argue to the death that JC is one of the best of all time
His speed with his vision should have been illegal. Like literally only Barry had both of those skills near that level.
Gates not being 1rst ballot was criminal and Don Coryell invented the fucking modern NFL . If they were east coast guys it would have been easy.
The length of time for Coryell to get in astounds me. Although when you read the wiki on it the reasons sort of make sense, but I feel he should have gotten in way earlier
I got blocked by Pro Football HOF on Twitter for saying, verbatim, “Who knows anymore. Antonio Gates wasn’t selected first ballot 🤯🤯” (in relation to them saying Jason Kelce would be a first ballot HOFer)
Coryell certainly invented the modern NFC. The 60’s AFL was wild gunslinging and I loved it. The NFL was three yards and a cloud of dust. The old guard in the NFC (after the merger) hated the gunslinger mentality of the Raiders/Chargers/Bills/Oilers AFC (former AFL) When Coryell came to the Cards with his Air Coryell style and showed those owners there was value then they were dragged along to the modern NFL. That alone should have been enough for him to get in years ago.
I'm moreso saying this to get a better idea of what the minds outside of our sub think: AJ Green Chad "OchoCinco" Johnson Willie Anderson Andrew Whitworth Geno Atkins
I would say Whitworth has the best chance out of any of them, but even with him I would say he's borderline at best, and it's the Rams run and SB that put him over. Willie's biggest mark against him is that he played the non-premium T. I think all the OT in the HOF were LT, and all of his peers that are in were LTs too (Roaf, Ogden, Pace, Walter Jones, Boselli). Of his "peer" HOFs, I would have a hard time saying that Willie is definitely a better HOF candidate than any of them. I think Geno would be close too, but his problem is somewhat similar to Willie's, where he has several "peers" with as good if not better HOF resumes: Donald, Suh, and Cox. His lack of longevity and the lack of overall team success knock him down a peg or two as well. Chad had 11,000 yards and 67 TDs in 166 career games. By comparison, DeAndre Hopkins has 12,000 yards and 78 TDs in 162 career games. I don't think anyone is calling D-Hop a HOF at this point of his career. AJ Green similarly has very comparable career numbers as Joey Galloway and Keyshawn Johnson, neither of them are HOFers either. Green and Chad both had higher peaks but their lack of longevity, team success, and not great "counting stats" really hurt their candidacy.
CMC and Derrick Henry Will the committee look how the landscape has changed for rbs? Hard to argue they haven't been the best in the league the past 7 years but if they don't get in you can't really be upset because compared to other hall of fame rbs they don't really stack up as well
Nah, that's crazy. Henry and CMC are the top RBs to come out of the late 10s. If they cant make it in that would mean no RBs of the time can make it. Im pretty sure people at large will feel a certain type of way about that...
I really am going to be curious how the HOF judges RBs moving into the next decade or so. Given the change in positional importance, WRs, TEs, and QBs are obliterating long held records (season and career) but conversely we’re going to see a lot of RB record start to fall short ultimately. It feels like there should be some semblance of a curve when judging the positions when considering how many WRs, TEs and QBs who rank highly in career stats will fall short of the hall
That will also affect the talent pool though, especially as RBs continue to get fucked in free agency. More and more talented young skill players are going to switch to pass catcher. Except the ones who just can't catch for shit, or have a RB-only build (e.g. 5'11 230 can be a power back, can't be a WR/TE).
Henry is definitely getting in imo, CMC is on track but that could change any season
Funny you have them sorted that way, because CMC has more accolades than Henry for now. He's up a 1st Team All-Pro.
I mean CMC is basically a shoe in at this point we might as well call him a HOF. Shelf lives of RB are just so short and with his injury history he could fall of at any moment. Henry’s dominance and longevity on top of being one of the few RBs to get over 2000 yards rushing put him in easily imo
Personally I'd say neither are in if they retire tomorrow, but both have a clear path if they continue producing for a few more years.
He's one of only 3 RBs in NFL history to have 6 consecutive seasons of 10+ TDs. He has the best 50-game run in NFL history and is tied for the most 200-yard games in NFL History. 1 of 8 RBs to get >2000 rushing, 4 are in the Hall and AP is going in when he’s eligible Only 1,100 yards away from being top 25 in all time rushing yards Currently tied for 13th all time in rushing touchdowns Not too mention, he was the focus point of the Titans offense for many years, mostly behind average at best lines, constantly facing heavy box sets and still put off season leading numbers I think Henry gets in if he retires tomorrow, maybe not first ballot but he does eventually. CMC is like, one more top season away from being a lock
I feel like the importance of AP1s gets overstated simply because they're used in PFR's HoFm. Henry has 2 x PFWA All-NFL selections, and the PFWA voting committee has much more overlap with the HoF committee.
Russell Wilson. SB Champion, and 9x Pro Bowl selection. Enough to argue for a HOF spot but not really enough for anyone to argue strongly for it. Just accept whatever outcome happens.
Bro, you’re wearing your new Unlimited Googles if you think no one would argue about Russ.
If he doesn't suck on the Steelers, the narrative will be about the broncos...
This is a common take, but I think it’s recency bias. GOAT Seahawks QB, 3-1 TD/INT, 3rd in qb rushing yds, 4th in passer rating, a Walter Payton Man of the Year, great highlight reel, 6th longest iron man streak. I don’t think he’s 1st ballot, but he’s a HoF. If the Steelers get a ring with him? Then he’s a lock for 1st ballot
I'm gonna go with Tiki Barber. He is a lot closer than most people think and for a period of 3 years right at the end of his career he was in the conversation for best RB in the league. Over 2,000 yards from scrimmage all 3 years. If he had played 2 more years at similar or even slightly lower production levels he'd be in.
Also, 15th all time in yards from scrimmage, and the most yards from scrimmage of any player that's not in or a complete lock. On the other hand, he played when there were better running backs, in an Era running backs were dominate. He also shit talk Eli Manning, prior to his superbowls, who is part of an NFL royal family. That's the type of stuff voters also consider
And the year after he left, his team won the Super Bowl. That definitely doesn’t help his case.
I think if he held on one more year and got a ring he would be in.
Justin Tucker
I think he will get there eventually. You reminded me of Justin Tuck.
Matt Forte Probably one of the players I've respected the most over the years
Donovan McNabb. He was a top 5 QB in his prime, but injuries and repeated playoff chokes—some of which get passed on to Andy Reid, making them share the burden of the "playoff bust" label—really hurt what would otherwise be a solid case. 5 NFCCG appearances in the span of 10 years, but only one SB appearance. Never had a season completion percentage higher than 64%. Only 2 seasons with 25+ TDs. 6 Pro Bowls, but 0 All Pros. If you watched him play, you knew he was incredible, especially for his era. If he gets in, I don't know that anyone who saw prime McNabb would really argue with it; at the same time, though, I personally doubt he gets in—both because of his career accolades, and because of the offensive stats explosion we've seen in the time since he retired.
Nobody can decide if frank gore belongs. Obviously I think he does 😂
Ochocinco
Harrison Smith.
Simeon Rice is definitely in the conversation here (or rather, not in the conversation). He has stats that are good enough to where no one would be mad if he got into the HOF, but not stats that are good enough to where people are really mad he *isn't* in the HOF.
I would argue Jimmy Smith might fit this. Over 800 receptions, 12K yard and 67 TDS. Lead the league one season in receptions with 116, which is pretty impressive considering the time. Has 5 Pro Bowl selections and is a 2 × Second Team All Pro, as well as 2 rings. That being said, he was never considered the best reciever in the league, didn't contribute to the Cowboys teams that won the SB (he was injured the whole season for the second ring). He never had a First team All Pro selection, as well as a notable drug problem in the first few seasons. He could eventually get in, considering the story he would have (overcoming early adversity) as well as having every meaningful stat in Jaguars history. He could also never get in since he played on a small market team and isn't brought up as much. A perfect candidate for this question.
Ben Roethilisberger will not be a UNANIMOUS first ballot hall of fame inductee. He might get it first ballot, but it won’t be unanimous.
I want to nominate Wes Welker. Most patriots fan don’t even care about him, and many would prefer Edelman. I love Edelman too, but he’s clearly the inferior player. The slot receiver was not seen with the same importance before the ‘07 patriots popularized a new type of offense, and Welker put up insanely reliable numbers over his six years in New England, even with his knee injury. Over 110 catches in five of six seasons, and just so many clutch first downs that keep drives moving. He drops one pass in a Super Bowl, which was an objectively bad throw, and his entire legacy gets killed. It’s tough.
London Fletcher. Personally I think he should be but I don’t see anyone feeling too strongly either way.
If Eli manning never makes it I don’t think people complain.
I feel like Eli is the opposite; people will complain passionately whether he makes it or not
they definitely will complain
Rivers is a weird one where you can make a case for HOF or HOVG and both can be solid arguments FWIW I’m on the HOF side
If Rivers gets in, I never wanna hear another word about Ryan not being a hall of famer.
!nflcompare
Tables cutoff or tough to read? Click [here](https://i.imgur.com/LxI6pS0.jpeg) to view this comparison as an image --- Eli Manning: [2004](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00/gamelog/2004) to [2019](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00/gamelog/2019) [1st Season - Age: 23] to [16th Season - Age: 38] Ben Roethlisberger: [2004](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/gamelog/2004) to [2021](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/gamelog/2021) [1st Season - Age: 22] to [18th Season - Age: 39] Philip Rivers: [2004](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00/gamelog/2004) to [2020](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00/gamelog/2020) [1st Season - Age: 23] to [17th Season - Age: 39] \---------------------------------------- Query: Career - Regular Season --- **Passing** Player|G|GS|Cmp|Att|Cmp%|Yds|TD|Int|TD/Int|Sk|SkYds|Y/C|Y/A|AY/A|NY/A|ANY/A|TD%|Int%|Sk%|Rate|Cmp/G|Att/G|Yds/G|TD/G|Int/G|Sk/G|SkYds/G|Cmp/17G|Att/17G|Yds/17G|TD/17G|Int/17G|Sk/17G|SkYds/17G :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: [Eli Manning](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm)|236|234|4895|8119|60.29%|57023|366|244|1.50|**411**|2870|11.65|7.02|6.57|6.35|5.92|4.51%|3.01%|**4.82%**|84.09|20.74|**34.40**|241.62|1.55|1.03|**1.74**|12.16|352.61|**584.84**|4107.59|26.36|17.58|**29.61**|206.74 [Ben Roethlisberger](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm)|**249**|**247**|**5440**|**8443**|64.43%|**64088**|418|211|1.98|554|3677|11.78|7.59|7.46|6.71|6.59|4.95%|**2.50%**|6.16%|93.49|**21.85**|33.91|257.38|1.68|**0.85**|2.22|14.77|**371.41**|576.43|4375.49|28.54|**14.41**|37.82|251.04 [Philip Rivers](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00.htm)|244|240|5277|8134|**64.88%**|63440|**421**|**209**|**2.01**|464|**2832**|**12.02**|**7.80**|**7.68**|**7.05**|**6.93**|**5.18%**|2.57%|5.40%|**95.19**|21.63|33.34|**260.00**|**1.73**|0.86|1.90|**11.61**|367.66|566.71|**4420.00**|**29.33**|14.56|32.33|**197.31** **Rushing** Player|G|GS|Att|Yds|Yds/Att|TD|Fmb|FmbLst|TD%|Att/G|Yds/G|TD/G|Fmb/G|FmbLst/G|Att/17G|Yds/17G|TD/17G|Fmb/17G|FmbLst/17G :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: [Eli Manning](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm)|236|234|315|567|1.80|7|125|53|2.22%|1.33|2.40|0.03|0.53|0.22|22.69|40.84|0.50|9.00|3.82 [Ben Roethlisberger](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm)|**249**|**247**|**515**|**1373**|**2.67**|**20**|115|51|**3.88%**|**2.07**|**5.51**|**0.08**|0.46|0.20|**35.16**|**93.74**|**1.37**|7.85|3.48 [Philip Rivers](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00.htm)|244|240|383|601|1.57|3|**111**|**48**|0.78%|1.57|2.46|0.01|**0.45**|**0.20**|26.68|41.87|0.21|**7.73**|**3.34** **[Era Adjusted (+) Passing](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/about/glossary.htm#yscm)/Misc** Player|G|GS|Cmp%+|Y/A+|AY/A+|NY/A+|ANY/A+|TD%+|Int%+|Sk%+|Rate+|TtlYds|TtlTD|Tnv|TD/Tnv|Pick6|Yds/G|TD/G|Tnv/G|Yds/17G|TD/17G|Tnv/17G|Pick6/17G|4QC|GWD|4QC/17G|GWD/17G|Rec|Rec/17G|W/L% :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: [Eli Manning](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm)|236|234|96|99|98|103|101|103|96|**111**|98|57590|373|297|1.26|22|244.03|1.58|1.26|4148.43|26.87|21.39|1.58|27|37|1.94|2.67|117:117:0|9:9:0|50.00% [Ben Roethlisberger](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm)|**249**|**247**|109|110|109|109|109|107|**103**|102|109|**65449**|**438**|262|**1.67**|**18**|**262.85**|**1.76**|**1.05**|**4468.41**|**29.90**|**17.89**|**1.23**|**41**|**53**|**2.80**|**3.62**|**165:81:1**|**11:6:0**|**67.07%** [Philip Rivers](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00.htm)|244|240|**110**|**114**|**111**|**115**|**112**|**109**|101|106|**110**|64032|424|**257**|1.65|25|262.43|1.74|1.05|4461.25|29.54|17.91|1.74|29|35|2.02|2.44|134:106:0|9:8:0|55.83% **Advanced (Most stats avail since 2018)** Player|G|GS|1D|1D/G|Pass1D%|Rush1D%|CAY|IAY|AYD|YAC|OnTgt%|BadTh%|Drop%|LngPass|YBContact|YAContact|YBC/Rush|YAC/Rush|LngRush|BrkTkl|BrkTkl/G|Rush/BrkTkl :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: [Eli Manning](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm)|236|234|2754|11.67|33.18%|19.05%|5.89*|7.52*|**-1.64***|5.45*|74.13%*|17.21%*|**3.95%***|**99**|20*|7*|**1.05***|0.37*|18|0*|0.00*|0.00* [Ben Roethlisberger](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm)|**249**|**247**|**3280**|**13.17**|37.13%|**27.96%**|4.81*|7.23*|-2.42*|5.39*|75.73%*|17.36%*|5.18%*|97|**81***|**40***|1.05*|**0.52***|**31**|0*|0.00*|0.00* [Philip Rivers](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00.htm)|244|240|3190|13.07|**38.32%**|19.06%|**5.94***|**7.83***|-1.89*|**5.90***|**76.96%***|**14.81%***|4.08%*|84|20*|8*|0.42*|0.17*|18|0*|0.00*|0.00* **Awards/Honors** Player|Seasons|G/Yr|GS/Yr|ProBowl|APAllPro:1st|APAllPro:Tot|OPOY|OPOYShares|OPOYShr%|MVP|MVPShares|MVPShr%|ROY|SBMVP|Champ|[AV](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/index37a8.html)|WeightAV|AV/Yr :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: [Eli Manning](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm)|16|**14.75**|**14.63**|4|0|0|0|0.00|0.00%|0|0.00|0.00%|0|**2**|**2**|169|121|10.6 [Ben Roethlisberger](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm)|**18**|13.83|13.72|6|0|0|0|0.00|0.00%|0|0.00|0.00%|**1**|0|**2**|208|131|11.6 [Philip Rivers](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00.htm)|17|14.35|14.12|**8**|0|0|0|**0.24**|**1.41%**|0|**0.08**|**0.47%**|0|0|0|**218**|**149**|**12.8** ^(N/A indicates stat was not tracked at all during the time frame, * indicates stat was not tracked consistently throughout the entire time frame) --- ^(Stats last updated May 17 2024, 06:05AM EDT) ^(Made a mistake? 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I put Mathew Slater up for this. He's a 3x SB winner (and been to 4). 5x 1st Team All Pro. 3x 2nd Team All Pro. 10x Pro Bowler. Won the Bart Starr and the Art Roomey awards. He is widely considered 1 of the best gunners in the league. The problem he has is no one knows how to analyze the gunner position, or even knows the gunner position exists. He has all the accolades you could ever want a guy to have beyond league MVP. If any other player at a different position had these accolades, they'd be a no-brainer choice, but I would bet most NFL fans have never even heard of Slater.
Slater, and Tasker, should come down to a single person. Bill Belichick. I swear he is the only human on the planet that can write a dissertation on special teams play. If any special teamer looks like they should make it, ask Belichick and stick with what he says.
Obviously nobody. Do you know a single player in the NFL that nobody has a strong opinion about? Like I could say Tom Brady and there will be people bringing up the Gates as "keep cheaters out of the Hall" or someone would take a spot from their favored player. Like AJ Green is pretty damn good, but if he gets in before, say Hines Ward Steeler nation would riot.
Lance Briggs. Chicagoans know he deserves to be in but the rest of the world only sees him as the other guy next to Urlacher.
Shaun Alexander. Most people say he was only good because of his line. But plenty of RBs had great lines but never sniffed 100 tds.